Dayton. The mayor of dayton spoke out moments ago calling out congress imploring them to do more about gun safety reform. Im not pollyannish to think well find the perfect legislation to solve every single gun problem down the road but we need to start working and moving toward that direction. I think, you know, the federal what do you see in d. C. . You see a lot of nothing happening on a lot of stuff. And gun reform is definitely an example where nothing has happened. Her words come as we get more information on the dayton, ohio shooter along with new video from inside the bar the shooter was trying to enter when he was killed. We need to warn you it may be disturbing. Patrons inside the bar ned peppers scrambled for cover hitting the floors as soon as shots rang out. Police were able to stop the gunman before he made his way into the establishment and, still, he was able to cause that much damage. Were also hearing from the shooters former girlfriend, who told nbcs Gabe Gutierrez about the man who took nine lives. This isnt about race. This isnt about religion. Its none of those things. This is a man who was in pain and didnt get the help that he needed. People go every day being perfectly fine with having Mental Illness, me included. And he just got the shortened of the stick. No support system. Was on medicine. All right. As we learn more about the el paso shooter were finding more and more mass shooters hold White Nationalist views, committing violence as an expression of their hate. Experts warn that the violence and ideology behind White Supremacists and jihadist groups share core concepts. White supremacists on dark internet forums are voicing the same kind of vision. Their views are translating into death. Joining us now are our guests. Frank, our folks who, including ken, who deal with these things, and cover it with the government or have been involved with the federal government have told us that the fbi has understood this is a rising threat for some years and that this administration has been clear about it since day one and has made something of an active choice not to devote resources to dealing with the rise of White Nationalism and domestic terror. Well, weve seen budget cuts. Weve seen defunding of existing initiatives and centers and thats problematic because the fbi has been ringing the bell. In fact, back in april of this year, the fbi on its own went ahead and created a cross functional multi Disciplinary Center of hate crime and domestic terrorism. It was a fusion intelligence cell. Because this problem, ali, requires multi disciplinary approach. Its not just a criminal problem as were learning. Its not just a terrorism problem. There is a cyber element, an intelligence element, and, you know, its very complex. We have a clear enemy when were talking about International Terrorism. Weve designated groups and individuals. We know where their chat rooms and websites are. We dont have that on the domestic terrorism side. Why is that . Because our democracy, a bed rock of our democracy is free speech. While were wrestling with the issue of when does hate become violence, this is happening and playing out in front of us. Ken, i want to go into the process, though, in which these types of crimes are investigated. Because a lay person could say, who cares whether or not you call it terrorism . People have died. Thats what matters. But in terms of the fbi and the Government Resources that go into looking at these types of crimes, help us understand the differences. There are huge differences, stephanie. First of all, there is a dramatic disparity in resources. That is best illustrated by what the fbi head of counterterrorism told congress in may. He said that among his agents and analysts 80 of them are working on international and jihadi inspired terrorism and only 20 are working on domestic terrorism, even though by his own admission domestic, White Nationalist terrorists, have killed more people since 9 11 than jihadi connected terrorists. That is one issue. There is a huge misallocation of resources. As frank was alluding to, there is also no domestic terrorism statute. And that really plays into how these crimes are investigated because often they are investigated as hate crimes. Well, thats a different part of the fbi that does that than the counterterrorism division. And so you dont see the kind of sting operations for example that you would see against jihadi terrorism plots and there is also no statute on Material Support to domestic terrorism. For example a washington metro transit officer was sentenced to 15 years in prison last year for buying a few hundred dollars in gift cards and sending them to isis. You dont have a similar law that would prevent somebody from raising money for a white supremacist group. So there really needs to be some changes in law here in order to make the level of effort the same for both domestic and International Terrorism. Frank, a former colleague of yours, the former fbi counterterror agent wrote on monday, when a young muslim man, selfradicalized online, kills in the name of islamist ideology we have no trouble calling him a terrorist and connecting him with groups like isis. When a young white man, similarly selfradicalized, kills in the name of racist ideology, even when he publishes a manifesto to that effect, we tend to call him disturbed. Why do we have such a hard time calling these men terrorists . What do you think . Well, lets be honest. There is an element here of skin color and different religion. If you switch the religion of the el paso shooter to islam, wed be looking at this entirely differently from a legal perspective and an investigative perspective. In fact, there is an argument to be made we may have been able to prevent it because we would have been in that International Terrorism blog site or chat room to be able to see it and stop it. Right now we call that free speech and Law Enforcement doesnt have the opportunity to get in there. So if theres any positive to come out of this horrible tragedy its a National Discussion on domestic terrorism and the need to get our act together to treat domestic terrorism similarly to International Terrorism. Frank, when we look at whats happened here, and we think across the board, in terms of nationalism, its on the rise around the world. The difference in the United States is access to guns. Is that what you would point to given your experience as to why were seeing these types of hate crimes and Mass Shootings and how theyre so much more frequent here than they are overseas . So theres a panoply of factors and variables including Mental Health, access to free health care, the ability for police to take a gun away, all of that plays in here. But the bottom line is, two things. One is, hate is behind this. Weve got to get behind this radicalization of young people. But the reality is when you have a drum magazine that can carry a hundred rounds of ammunition as we saw in the dayton shooting, or you have extended magazines or you have high powered automatic rifles on the street, youve got to ask yourself why are we arming our civilian population to this degree . So if someone is mentally unstable and still has the ideology and just has a knife in their hand, were going to have a far lower death toll. So weve got to address this from the multifaceted perspective and, quite frankly, were not hearing that kind of resolve from the white house or from congress to get their hands around it. The president did not go far enough in his press conference, didnt even touch on the issue of gun control. Ken, thank you. Frank figliuzzi, thanks to both of you for your analysis here. Its been now 24 hours since President Trump denounced racism and White Supremacy after the recent shootings in el paso and dayton and, of course, last week in california. But will condemning these forms of hate just in his words be enough . Msnbc contributor eddie glaub said it is going to take a whole lot more to solve this deeprooted problem. America is not unique in its sins as a country. Were not unique in our evils to be honest with you. I think where we may be singular is our refusal to acknowledge them. And the legends and myths we tell about our apparent, you know, goodness to hide and cover and conceal so we can maintain a kind of willful ignorance that protects our innocence. See, the thing is when the tea party was happening we people were saying, pundits, oh, its just about economic populism. Its not about race. People knew, social scientists were already writing that what was driving the tea party were anxieties about demographics shifts, that the country was changing. They were seeing these racial liam big use babies on cheerios commercials. That the country wasnt quite feeling like it was a white nation anymore. People were screaming from the top of their lungs, this is not just simply economic populism. This is the ugly underbelly of the country. See, the thing is this. And ill say this and take the hit on it. There are communities that have had to bear the brunt of america confronting, white americans confronting the danger of their innocence. And it happens every generation. So somehow we have to kind of oh, my god, is this who we are . And just again another, here is another generation of babies. Think about it. A 2yearold had his bones broken by two parents trying to shield him from being killed. A woman who has been married to this man for as long as ive been on the planet almost lost her husband. For what . And so what we know is that the country has been playing politics for a long time. On this hatred. We know this. So its easy for us to place it all on Donald Trumps shoulders. Its easy for us to place pi pittsburgh on his shoulders, its easy to place el paso on his shoulders. This is us. And if were going to get past this, we cant blame it on him. Hes a manifestation of the ugliness thats in us. Ive had the privilege of growing up in a tradition that didnt believe in the myths and legends because we had to bear the brunt of them. Either were going to change, or were going to do this again and again and babies are going to have to grow up without mothers and fathers, uncles and aunts, friends, while were trying to convince white folk to finally leave behind a history that will maybe, maybe, or embrace a history that might set them free from being white. Finally. Finally. Powerful words from eddie. Hard to fathom, hard to sort of digest. But there is nothing i can debate about on that one. There is nothing i could tell him hes wrong about. If its hard to digest i recommend watching it again. Yeah. Coming up next, President Trump is blaming Mental Health for the Mass Shootings this week. For facts sake he rolled back policy addressing that very thing when it comes to guns. President trumps words and actions do not match. Well look at what he says versus what hes done. Youre watching velshi and ruhle live on msnbc. Cold turke. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. Chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Quit smoking slow turkey. Talk to your doctor about chantix. When didwhen i needed ton . Jumpstart sales. Build attendance for an event. Help people find their way. Fastsigns designed new directional signage. And got them back on track. Get started at fastsigns. Com. I cant tell you anything about myself. As someone in witness protection, but believe me, im not your average consumer. Thats why i switched to Liberty Mutual. They customized my Car Insurance, so i only pay for what i need. And as a man, uh, or a woman with very specific needs that i cant tell you about say cheese. Mr. Landry . Oh no. Hi mr. Landry [ grunting ] Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Welcome back to velshi and ruhle. Today americans are left to wonder what President Trump will do about the nations mass shooting epidemic. The record on gun policy has not been consistent. On monday President Trump may have condemned White Supremacy in the wake of the shootings in el paso and dayton but stopped short of making any significant call to action on gun safety reform. Earlier yesterday the president tweeted in part, republicans and democrats must come together and get strong background checks. When he spoke on camera later he didnt call for new background checks. Instead he blamed Mental Illness for the problem. Mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger, not the gun. We must make sure that those judged to pose a grave risk to Public Safety do not have access to firearms and that if they do, those firearms can be taken through rapid due process. Well, for facts sake. On february 28th, 2017, President Trump signed a bill specifically rolling back an obama era regulation that made it more difficult for people with Mental Illness to purchase guns. Earlier this year he threatened to veto legislation that would in fact require universal background checks for most gun purchases. Both shootings this weekend have called into question the amount of resources that the Justice Department and the department of Homeland Security have in order to track the threat of domestic terrorism in the United States. During his remarks on monday, heres what the president said. We must do a better job of identifying and acting on Early Warning signs. I am directing the department of justice to work in partnership with local state and federal agencies as well as social Media Companies to develop tools that can detect mass shooters before they strike. Words are good. Theyre important. But they need to be backed up with facts. And for facts sake, one dhs official told nbc news there is, quote, no discussion of new funding to fulfill the president s mandate. On the Second Amendment, President Trump posted this to facebook back in february of 2016, saying, quote, i wont let them take away our guns. But for facts sake, here he is two years later changing his tune after the Parkland School shooting. I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy mans case that just took place in florida. He had a lot of firearms. They saw everything. To go to court would have taken a long time. So you could do exactly what youre saying but take the guns first. Go through due process second. Okay. A week before that at a listening session with parkland students, the president suggested Arming Teachers with guns. Listen. If you had a teacher with, who was adept at firearms, they could very well end the attack very quickly. But for facts sake, one day later, he retreated, tweeting this, in part. I never said give teachers guns. And President Trumps stance even changed on assault weapons before his time in the white house began. In his book the america we deserve then Donald Trump Endorsed an assault weapons ban. But in a 2015 interview with ammo land mr. Trump suggested the ar15 doesnt qualify as an assault weapon. We should note the ar15 was used in new town, orlando, and las vegas. The deadliest shootings this country has seen. But there is one area where the president has kept his word. After the last Vegas ShootingPresident Trump expressed his support for banning bump stock devices like the ones used in that attack and enacted a federal ban in march of 2019. We should just also point out, while the president says both sides must come together on background checks one side has. Its not an issue of both sides. The house has passed this. This week alone since the shootings democrats, specifically those running to be the next president , have said, Mitch Mcconnell, Call Congress back in session. We will show up in d. C. Lets vote on it. Yep. It is republicans. It is Mitch Mcconnell who is not bringing this to a vote. So when you say both sides must come together, one is already there. Joining us now Senior Policy Adviser, courage to fight gun violence and former atm agent, david, thank you for being with us. You say during your time at the atf the nra and its allies made your job harder. How does the president s inconsistency on gun policy make jobs like yours harder when you had that . Well, the first thing is framing the issue. I dont know how as our leader you can talk about the issue of gun violence and try to do so without talking about guns. It would be like if we were concerned about lung cancer and try to avoid the topic of cigarettes. And so this is an issue of guns. Its an issue of how people get them. Its an issue of how people use them. Its an issue of how the leithalitiy of guns has gotten more lethal year after year after year. The guns that i used to carry on atfs s. W. A. T. Team are readily available to the public today and being used in these Mass Shootings. So if we dont focus on the issue of guns, we are going to be focusing on other issues that distract us from the core problem. Yesterday the president gave remarks. You said it. Hes been inconsistent on his policies especially when it comes to speeches hes given after such shootings. In your words you said hes offered empty promises. Lets say he were to change his tune now. What should he do . Yeah, with this president i think it is very important to focus on his actions as you pointed out in your previous setup here. What he says varies over time. You know, what i think we need to do is trust people who have done this for a living. For 25 years i was an atf agent. I took an oath to this country to prevent gun violence. The single most important thing we can do is create an environment where every time you buy or transfer a gun you have to pass a background check. This actually aligns with the concern the president has. Even though Mental Health is a very small contributor to the problem of gun violence, i dont know how you would prevent people with these issues from buying a gun if they arent forced to pass a background check. So i think we have to be very particular. The guns used in the shootings over the weekend, these are ar15 and ak47 rifles. They are modeled off of weaponry used in war. I carried an ar15 semiautomatic as a s. W. A. T. Team member. And now these are even getting worse. The ak or ar pistols used in dayton is even a bigger problem for local police. And i think its, you know, not a coincidence that the weapon used in dayton was manufactured in kentucky. David, thank you for joining us. A Senior Policy Adviser with giffords. We appreciate your time. Thank you. A former atf person is not an antigun person. Correct. Right. That is the distinction. You can want background checks. You can want stronger, you know, gun laws without ever being antigun. How about just being pro safety . Yep. Well, coming up next, how President Trumps campaign could be stoking racial hate. Well look at false claims on some Trump Campaign facebook ads about an invasion on the southern border. Youre watching velshi and ruhle live on msnbc. S. They square off, hold firm, bear it all. This is her physical therapist, who lends his strength, to hers. These are avas shoulders, now stronger than ever. This is what medicare from Bluecross Blueshield does for ava. And with plans that fit every budget, imagine what we can do for you. This is the benefit of blue. Stay on top of things. A faster laptop could help. Plus, tech support to stay worry free. Worry free. Boom ha. Ha. Boom now save up to 200 on all lenovo products. Save up to 200 at Office Depot Officemax or officedepot. Com. Dprevagen is the number onemild memopharmacistrecommendedng . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. You should be mad at tech that makes things worse. But youre not, because you have e trade whose tech makes life easier by automatically adding technical patterns on charts and helping you understand what they mean. Dont get mad, get e trade. And my side super soft . With the sleep number 360 smart bed it can. With your sleep number setting. Can it help keep me asleep . Yes, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. Save up to 600 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. Only for a limited time. Look limu. A civilian buying a new car. Ug lets go. Limus right. Liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Oh. Yeah, ive been a customer for years. Huh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. A lot of people dont like the word invasion. We have a country thats being invaded by criminals and by drugs. Its an invasion of our country. We have an invasion of drugs, invasion of gangs, invasion of people. Were on track for a million illegal aliens to rush our borders, people hate the word invasion but thats what it is. That is President Trump repeatedly using the word invasion. To falsely describe migrants crossing at the southern border. The New York Times reports that since january the president s Reelection Campaign has posted more than 2,000 ads on facebook that include the word invasion, part of a barrage of advertising focused on immigration. The ads use messages like we have an invasion so we are building the wall to stop it. Its critical that we stop the invasion. Its a word you rarely hear from people who actually live and work at the border. Now the president s words are under increased scrutiny in the aftermath of the el paso massacre. The alleged shooter used similar language in a screed he posted online before the attack. Joining us now is thomas caplan the New York Times reporter who crunched all of the data. Walk us through this. How much did the president s campaign spend on ads focused on immigration and use that word specifically, invasion . So if you go back to march, the president s campaign has spent a little over 1. 2 million on immigration themed facebook ads. Thats a pretty big chunk of what his campaign has spent on facebook overall, which is a little over 5 million. Its harder to figure out exactly how much money has gone into the invasion ads which are sort of a subset of whats been spent on immigration ads. Are any of the invasion ads with that word on television . This is all facebook that we looked at and that is really a huge area where the Trump Campaign is putting Advertising Money in these early months of the 2020 race. Hes gotten out to a huge sort of head start over democrats in using facebook to reach millions of people. The language of invasion is one that is used worldwide and has got quite a History Associated with it, with far right groups, antiimmigrant movements s movements some of which have taken hold quite solidly in europe. Can you get away with that kind of thing more on facebook than you could in traditional media ads like radio and tv . Well, i mean, if you look at the president s own rhetoric, this really all comes from what he has been saying. This is a word he has invoked in speeches, at rallies. It is something hes tweeted about. It was a big theme of his before the midterm elections last year. So his campaign is really using facebook to kind of amplify that message. And its tough. Where do you it sort of is we see exaggerated rhetoric in all sorts of political campaigns. This may be on the extreme end in terms of sort of inflammatory rhetoric. Right. Its hard to kind of draw a line in terms of where is too far in describing something youre talking about as a candidate. Right. I guess thats true because the word invasion is used in our language for other reasons. Most people dont think about it that way but it is coded language for extremists and White Nationalists. Tom, good to see you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. I say to you, ali, social media platforms as opposed to tv exist for hours on end in peoples lives as we scroll, looking into other things. And so when you see words like that, coming over and over and over yes, yes. Somehow it ends up in your daytoday conversation and youre not even sure why. The word, invasion, has been one of the great successes of White Nationalists around the world because its innocuous. You dont know it means something but it is coded language when you are in that world and seeing it, it reinforces your thought theyre taking over your country. Nationalists who also call themselves patriots. A patriot is one who defends the values of their country. Defending the value of your country being a patriot is not being a White Nationalist. Worth noting, that the al qaeda war against america was in some cases predicated on the idea that americans were invading the holy land, the muslim holy land. That feels the idea there were american troops in saudi arabia, Osama Bin Laden used that language as well. Anybody who doesnt like other people can use the word, invasion, and it gets people worked up. It gets people sort of on side to fight the war. But given the United States, who we are, our changing demographic, and who have become americans its hard to understand the idea of an invasion here. Coming up next well continue talking about the politics of guns. Well break down key details about the nra and what makes that organization so powerful. The donations, the money, and the membership. You are watching velshi and ruhle live on msnbc. Unpredictable crohns symptoms following you . 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The National Outrage building over the Mass Shootings in el paso and dayton, many critics are directing their anger at the National Rifle association which has long opposed many gun reforms as infringing on the Second Amendment. Lets look at the nra and its political influence. According to the center for responsive politics in the 2016 and 2018 election cycles the nras Political Action committee or associated individuals made more than 1. 9 million in total contributions. The vast majority of which went to candidates. It spent nearly 17 million in lobbying on capitol hill. Now, according to the data utah senator mitt romney has benefited the most from nra spending with more than 13. 6 million of direct and indirect support over his career. This includes contributions directly to the candidate along with things like ad spending against opponents which is something the nra does very effectively. The contributions are fueled in large part by dues but there may be problems on the horizon because according to tax records obtained by the daily beast the nras membership dues have been dropping from 163 million in 2017 to 128 million in 2018. We reached out to the nra for a statement on this and have not heard back. Im not going to hold my breath. These membership figures are hard to pin down though. The nra will not release exact figures but claims at various points on its website to have approximately 5 million members. Remember, it claims to be a Membership Organization kind of like a club, an affinity organization. Remember, the nra is also the lobby for the gun industry. The nra is dealing with the fallout of the guilty plea during the former special counsels investigation into Russian Election interference. She pled guilty to acting as a foreign agent. She admitted to her part in russian backed attempts allegedly directed by this man, a russian lawmaker, to influence american politics through the nra and there are a whole bunch of things going on inside the nra that are causing problems as well. Joining us now is a former chief white house ethics lawyer in the george w. Bush administration. Richard, you have written about, in the past, and said something that always stands out to me in that the nra might be best described not as a Membership Organization for people who rightfully enjoy guns but a protection racket for people who are already in office, chiefly republicans. Absolutely right. Thats what i said in my 2012 New York Times editorial. The nra protection racket. They make it clear that they will support you for Public Office as a candidate if you toe the line. But if you depart from the nra script on any issue, they will support a primary challenge. They will come after you hard. Even a little, if you depart a little bit, right . You still fundamentally, the Second Amendment is in the constitution but the idea you might want enhanced background checks like 90 of americans plus do that is a departure from the nra script which will cost you your support from the nra. Well of course and what they say about the Second Amendment has nothing to do with the Second Amendment which talks about a well regulated militia. This is hardly a well regulated militia when any kind of kook can get ahold of a semiautomatic weapon and kill 20 people in a matter of seconds. This is not to do with the Second Amendment. This has to do with the nras distortion of the Second Amendment. But we can fight this, in both political parties. In the Republican Party, people support republicans on other issues and need to make it clear to the Republican Party that they will not support candidates who continue to refuse to enact sensible gun regulations. And that that is a key issue. And whether youre a pro life republican or whatever your reason is for supporting the Republican Party, make it clear, you will not accept the nra agenda. On the democratic side, most democrats are willing to enact support gun regulations that are sensible. There are right wing democrats and we have some in minnesota ive been dealing with up in minnesotas iron range who are opposed to gun regulations and who support trump on his wall and a number of other right wing agendas. Those people need to be primaried out. I do call upon democrats not to just assume all members of your party, that all candidates support sensible gun regulations. Some of them, also, are in the back pocket of the nra. And thats why you need to support primary challenges. Educate yourself as a voter. Stand up to the nra and their cronies whether its the far right of the Republican Party or actually, unfortunately, a very large portion of the Republican Party, or the far right democrats that we deal with in northern minnesota and other places around the country. All right, richard, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much. A Walmart Store was the site of one of the weekends horrific massacres. Despite growing calls for walmart and other Big Companies to do more to combat gun violence, walmart tells nbc news there has been no change to its gun sale policies in the wake of the shooting. One of those calls for change comes from our colleague who wrote an open letter to walmarts ceo with this argument. Beyond the politics of gun control, ending gun sales in stores could be a Smart Business decision for retailers like walmart. Walmart has we should say done some things. They dont sell hand guns and some assault style rifles. They raised the age. Weve seen another company take action, dicks sporting goods. They lost a significant amount of sales, 180 million, when they took a very public stand against gun violence last year. They stopped selling assault style rifles and high capacity magazines. At their field and stream stores. And they raised the minimum age of buying all firearms to 21. I spoke to dicks ceo ed stack yesterday about that decision and what else he thinks needs to be done. I will tell you we had a number of people who are avid shooters and hunters and outdoorsmen who said, we understand this. We dont think theres a need for the assault style rifle. And continue to be a part of our customers. There was a lot who left us. And we understood that. We knew that was going to happen. There was an awful lot of people who endorsed this and to me, this is an easy decision. It was an expensive decision for us. But i can tell you if we had a chance to do it all over again we would exactly the same way. He has been involved in that company his father founded it. This is a guy who really feels the business and wants to feel proud of where that business is going. He has said his frustration now, he and other ceos have written a letter to Mitch Mcconnell that has not been responded to saying, universal background checks, lets do this. The question to walmart, whether its Andrew Russ Sorokin saying dont sell guns, that might not connect with walmart, seeing that its a national it is the biggest employer, one of the biggest gun sellers the biggest retailers. We might not have an understanding of what gun culture is and all that their customers want but they can say, were going to have enhanced background checks. They can demand that their gun manufacturers have fingerprint awe thentification. There is a lot they can do that they havent yet. Theres also a business decision not just in attracting the consumers that dicks and walmart attract by doing that but the fact that guns are not the biggest margin thing in the world. There are other things that if they start reducing floor space this might be a way to transition out of being the countrys biggest gun sellers. Theyre one of the most influential organizations on the planet, definitely the country. They can use it to promote safety. Up next President Trump says he supports socalled red flag legislation to address gun violence. Well speak with a psychiatrist about what red flags are and how they can be used. Youre watching velshi and ruhle live on msnbc. gasp singsong budget meeting sweet. If you compare last quarter to this quarter. Various mmm. Its no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with fresh milk and real cream. Cant imagine doing it any other way. This is Caitlin Dickerson from the New York Times. This isnt the only case. 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Thats when fastsigns recommended fleet graphics. Yeah, and now business is rolling in. Get started at fastsigns. Com. Welcome back to velshi and rueful. President trump calling for red flag laws to help prevent more Mass Shootings. 17 states have red flag laws which enable authorities, family members, and others to petition a judge to remove guns from those who may pose a threat to themselves or others. Its called an extreme Risk Protection order. Seems like a low bar. That is correct. Some of the red flags include threats of act, threats or acts of Violence Toward ones self or another. A violation of a Domestic Violence emergency protective order, or threats to use the firearm illegally. Several classmates of the dayton shooter told the Associated Press there were warning signs about his behavior years ago, including his suspension for allegedly compiling a hit list and a rape list in high school. The shooters exgirlfriend now says there were several things that looking back she considers red flags including how he would often talk about mass murders. He showed you video of a mass shooting on your first date. On my first date. But again, it was weird but not weird given the context of psychology. He took me to a shooting range. What did he say during this date . During this date . He told me that he just it was fun. Just blow off some steam and there was nothing there was nothing spooky about it then. Joining us now is jonathan metzel, professor of psychology and director for the center of medicine, health and society at vanderbilt university. Thank you for joining us. Think about all those High School Kids in dayton who said were told when you say something, say something. They said something. So this is a tough one because, first of all, you know, its a go to for a lot of people who never want gun laws touched that its all about Mental Health. To the extent that it sometimes is, what do we think about this . Two important things to think about in terms of extreme violence laws. One is that there are countless stories dating back to 2012, 2013 when these laws came about of family members being concerned about imminent threats of people who may have been longstanding gun owners or factors like that. But are escalating in ways where theyre an imminent threat because of alcohol or drugs or some other life crisis. And we know from the rhetoric of the data about shootings that most times, not just Mass Shootings but also partner violence, Domestic Violence, gun suicides, often are moments are escalation. So part of the issue was, how can we empower family members to have some kind of avenue . It was remarkable before that that they couldnt there just wasnt anything . There was nothing. All these stories going back to the mass shooting in california and tennessee where im from. Family members trying to contact authorities but there was absolutely nothing they could do. So number one is, there is a real need for these kind of laws because the people who see this escalation are the family members. The second point is important is that this these laws were built as a kind of compromise position with gun owners, with Law Enforcement, with Mental Health people to basically say, were not going to infringe on Second Amendment rights. But if we take away peoples guns for a period of 7 to 21 days, a short period, what we can do is get through this crisis while we come to a longterm plan. I think the second important point about these laws is that they are done with sensitivity to the Second Amendment and to gun owners and say, this is not a lifetime ban. Its a response to a passing imminent crisis. Lets talk about a different sensitivity. You say we should stay away from the term red flag because it stigmatizes the mentally ill. What if a person has a diagnosis of some sort of Mental Illness . Is that enough for a protective order to say you might not be best suited to have a gun . The research i do shows a Mental Illness diagnosis is not statistically related to shooting someone. I go through in the work that i, do the main Mental Illness diagnoses, depression, schizophrenia, factors like that. And people with those diagnoses actually on an aggregate level are less likely than the general population to shoot somebody else. Are we misdiagnosing after the fact some of these shooters . When you think of what a heinous act it is, we often say that is sick. That person must be a sicko, but theyre not actually mentally ill. Those are very different things. Thats exactly right. This Mental Illness diagnosis, psychiatrists are notoriously bad at predicting which of their patients is going to go on to shoot somebody else. Whats interesting about the extreme violence laws is that its not based its not a Mental Illness diagnosis. Mass shootings and also gun suicides. These are laws that are very effective. Of which people far more people die from gun suicides than shooting other people. Twothirds of our gun death in this country. And the data that shows the effect ofness of these laws shows the remarkable success theyve had in states like connecticut or indiana in reducing gun suicides. So the important point here is, its not linked to Mental Illness diagnosis. Its looking at the whole context of why people commit these shootings that have to do with passing crisis, substance, you know, all these other contextual variables. In a way, its trying to take the sensitivity of this issue and come up with a common sense solution. And i really think that as you mentioned, 17 states and washington, d. C. , have these, and it would be great to empower and fund more states to have these kind of laws. Low bar. There are a lot of states where if you have evidence that somebody might be a threat or you have credible fears that somebody might be a threat, short of it of them making an actual threat, you are still not empowered. Sandy hook happened in 2012. They passed a red flag law in 99. Its unbelievable. This is an important conversation and one that will be ongoing. Thank you for joining us, jonathan metzel. Next, President Trumps trade war hitting the markets. Stocks saw the worst trading day of the year yesterday. Well get a look at where the markets stand now. Youre watching vels velshi ruhle. Could there be another around the corner . Or could it turn out differently . I wanted to help protect myself. My doctor recommended eliquis. Eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. Almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis didnt experience another. And eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Eliquis is fda approved and has both. Dont stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. If you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Whats around the corner could be surprising. Ask your doctor about eliquis. Has four levels of defenseremium gasoagainst gunk, wear, corrosion and friction. That helps keep your Engine Running like new. Its fuel for thought. Weve had a fabulous market. Fabulous market. Agree it was quite volatile yesterday. These things come and go. I think the president s view has always been that we have negotiated in good faith. We want to continue to negotiate in good faith with the chinese. That was larry kudlow, the economic adviser, earlier today sounding rather optimistic about the ongoing trade war with china. He also claimed the United States has the upper hand in negotiations because the chinese economy is, quote, crumbling. Here at home, the markets are expected to recover after some very sharp drops over the last few days. And heres where we stand now. If you look at it, boom, in the green throughout the day. If you know when larry kudlow was speak, he was very careful to say this has always been the president s position because larry kudlow himself, weeks maybe before he took that position, with the administration, warned against tariffs saying trade wars do not work. So were going to continue to watch this, the big issue today is that china has devalued its currency and that is its way of accelerating this trade war. Thanks for watching. Ill see you back here at 00 p. M. Ill see you at 9 00 a. M. Tomorrow. Watch and listen to velshi ruhle on sirius xm radio. Msnbc. Com now, the msnbc app or apple tv. Thats a lot of places for the two of us. Thats a lot of places. Right now you can see chris jansing. Would u. S. Farmers agree with larry kudlow that the u. S. Has the upper hand . U. S. Farmers, many have given the president in spirit credit for saying lets take on china. Theres been unfair trade practices. In spirit. But they have been suffering. Since these tariffs were put in play, billions in arm aid have had to be doled out in china in retaliation to the president s new tariff threats said yesterday, that handshake on our last meeting about buying all those farm products, agricult udone, finished, over. Well talk more about this in this hour. Stephanie, ali, thank you. Im chris jansing. Its