Right now with money that we already have. I dont want to see a shutdown. Shutdown would be a terrible thing. Regardless of what i do, we already have as you know a lot of money where were building existing wall with existing funds, but i have a lot of opgsz. A border deal. The president would need to declare a national emergency. It wont be a perfect deal but it will be a good deal. I say to people ill support the deal for what is in it, dont judge it for what isness in it. The president is inclined to accept the agreement, move on, try to find money elsewhere and most likely declare an emergency. And that is where we start today. Breaking news on funding the government. President trump, the man behind the art of the deal, could be ready to settle for a deal, one he says hes not actually happy about. The president said just moments ago he does not want to see another shutdown, will review the latest bipartisan spending proposal from congress. This with just two days left before we could hit another Government Shutdown if things dont go the right way. But the president has not actually seen the deal yet. We do know the deal offers roughly a quarter of the money the president was asking for in border barrier funds. Lets just clarify that really quickly. Border barrier funds, and a wall are not necessarily the same thing. There is a very good chance its fencing and the president has had lots of different iterations of what he considers a wall. We also know that the republicans have a victory that they can claim. The new agreement has a provision that could allow the Trump Administration to increase the number of slots to shelter detained immigrants authorizing Homeland Security to fund about 40,000 beds for detainees. Joining us now is the New York TimesNational Immigration reporter caitlyn dickerson, because she actually follows this stuff very, very closely and knows all of these distinctions. I guess the issue here is this has been hard fought. We went through 35 days of a shutdown for it and both sides seem to be claiming something of a victory. The president which by the way, that is how it normally works. This is an opportunity to press your bipartisan horn. We have to make this really clear. Politics in the last few years, we are in this all or nothing, i, we, and i abuse you. In business and in our personal lives. Compromise is what you have to do. Compromise is the way a deal gets done. Two sides think they have something except the president s own side who has been making noise hes not happy but indicated he might sign t. What is your valuation of who got what . The biggest take away with this deal is there is actually little discussion about the border wall happening, right . The focus is all on immigration detention, who has been paying attention which we havent been talking about. We havent, since all the nations attention has been on the wall, has been on children who died in custody, has been on asylum seekers. Immigration detention has exploded. Its at the highest level its ever been. There was a focus on that right when President Trump came into office because we saw these huge increases in arrests. Those have sustained. As our attention veered elsewhere those arrests are still hang. Close to 50,000 people . 50,000 people more than ever. Republicans and democrats are spinning the latest number which is ultimately a slight increase. Theyre both claiming successes here and their goal, for democrats, is to lower the number of people in custody. And for republicans its to increase it. Theyre meeting at the middle. Its a slight uptick. For the american people, for all of those workers who would face being furloughed, not getting paid during a shutdown, its a win for them and its also a win for people who want increased Border Security because at least were doing something. This is true. I think, you know, the downside and something that perhaps federal workers might be looking at, people who were nur lowed for all this hull a ballou over the wall, there was no progress made and really this is sort of a distraction. You didnt get your pay for 35 days because of that and youre saying, this is the outcome . Why couldnt this happen in december . Correct. One of the questions, its great having you here. You have a big view of immigration. People with a great view of immigration, does what does success look like . More immigration detention or less . So, i think the question is, you know, what is the goal. I think the question is who should be detained or not. The challenge right now is that the president has instructed immigration authorities to basically arrest everybody in sight, including people who dont have any criminal record. Anybody who is here without legal status or has violated the terms of their visa should be arrested and detained until they can be deported. As we talked about before, that might not happen until a couple of years. Because there is a big backlog in who deals with them once they are detained. Put them through the process. There is a huge backlog in the courts. We see these Detention Centers filling up. I. C. E. Has now more people in custody than it can afford to hold. So under president obama, his view and Many Democrats think that folks who dont have violent criminal records, who arent considered to be flight risks, who are likely to show up for Immigration Court, they feel like those people should be allowed to rome freely and await their day in court. Is that with an ankle bracelet . Typically it will be an ankle bracelet a few months and youll be enrolled in a Probation Program where youre checking in with someone every week or every month to make sure you show up for court. President trump views this differently. One of his favorite things to talk about is catch and release. He and other conservatives is everybody should be in custody. They look at this rate of people who abscond from Immigration Court and theyre not okay with it. They want to make sure everybody shows up to court. The only way to do that is keep them in custody. Now, we have already heard from some members of the freedom caucus. Weve heard from some conservative pundits. I think Laura Ingraham called it a lousy deal, sean hannity called it first he called it garbage then he seemed to be a little better with it. Same thing with Laura Ingraham. She has dumped all over it. But nancy pelosi said shes giving no money for the wall and she gave a billion dollars for the wall. Thats not true. Nancy pelosi and the democrats havent agreed to give a single red cent for the wall. Border security and a fence. Will the president get enough push back help me with where im getting. Are we counting our eggs before they hatched . It was this day before the last shutdown when things went south. Irv thought it was good, the president was going to sign it. It was all the noise from the right he said forget about it. Do you think were closer to no shutdown can i read the president s mind . I have no idea. As you pointed out correctly, you can think youre very, very close, have bipartisan support, and the president decides to blow it up. Hes going to be listening to Laura Ingraham. We elected you because you said you would make changes. It is a status quo. Its a tiny change from what we currently have in place. A lot of conservatives are going to be frustrated by that. It depends whether the president ultimately decides to bow to that pressure or he decides we cant go through another Government Shutdown. We need to lock this up and move forward. Caitlyn, we always appreciate you helping shed light on this. Its a much more complicated issue than everybody has made it out to be. Well talk more than about the wall and southern border. All of these issues are so co complicated. All right. Thank you, caitlyn. Thank you. Moments from now a hearing gets underway and i have reached a point where i couldnt get my question out and you could feel me and you knew what it was. Called a partnership right there. It works well. See that . She wants to i like sending it to you. Wanted to point that out. Former Trump Campaign manager Paul Manafort, plus were going to talk about why President Trump could soon be dealing with a new russia investigation. Youre watching velshi ruhle on msnbc. That rocking chair would look great in our new house. Ahh, new house, eh . Well, you should definitely see how geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. Nice tip. Ill give you two bucks for the chair. Two . thats a victorian antique all right, how much for the recliner, then . Wait wait. How did that get out here . That is definitely not for sale is this a yard sale . If its in the yard then its. For sale. Oh, here we go. Geico. Its easy to switch and save on homeowners and renters insurance. And i dont add trup the years. S. But what i do count on. Is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. All of you. How you live, what you love. Thats what inspired us to create americas most advanced internet. Internet that puts you in charge. That protects whats important. It handles everything, and reaches everywhere. This is beyond wifi, this is xfi. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity, the future of awesome. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. Just moments from now, a sealed hearing involving former Trump Campaign chairman Paul Manafort and special counsel Robert Muellers team will begin in washington d. C. This as comments made during a separate sealed hearing hinted broadly at what muellers team may be sinking its teeth into. Meetings between manafort, his deputy rick gates, and russian political operative konstantin kilimnik. According to the Washington Post, manafort and gates met kilimnik at the grand havana room a few blocks from Campaign Headquarters at trump tower in manhattan. Prosecutors believe it was at that meeting that manafort and kilimnik may have exchanged critical information relevant to russia and trumps bid for the presidency. Now, prosecutor Andrew Weissmann told a federal judge during last weeks sealed hearing, quote, the encounter goes very much to the heart of what the special counsels office is investigating. Joining us now, nbc news investigator and former special watergate prosecutor. What is the significance of manaforts sealed hearing, the one that is about to go down . Basically this is going to kind of wrap up the debate theyve been having thats referenced in the story that we did, the Washington Post did about what manafort may have lied about that dissolved essentially this plea agreement that they were able to come up with and the Cooperation Agreement they were able to come up with in september of last year. Today the judge will look at a few more tack torz, a few more instances where prosecutors from muellers office say manafort lied and at that point theyll shell come to a conclusion, likely in a written order. We may not find out today what her conclusion is, whether manafort did lie, how many times he lied to the special counsels office, but we should get a written order at some point, likely this week, where the judge will at that point say, you know, i find that he did, in fact, lie. We can incorporate that into his upcoming sentencing and theyll go forward from there. So this is just kind of to get to the heart of the issue. The judge has raised some questions about muellers teams arguments. On the other hand, shes raised questions about what manaforts team asserts are not lies, challenging them and challenging the facts. Theres been a bit of back and forth. The reason this hearing is sealed, normally this would play out in open court and we would know about it. It pertains to the Ongoing Investigation being led by robert mueller. She wants the attorneys to speak freely. Well get a transcript, the one we reported on last week, certain parts will be redacted. Nick, first of all, i want to express appreciation to you and tom wearing the same tie today. We coordinated. To toms point, according to the posts reporting, the mueller team flatout said that the meeting between gates, kilimnik and manafort goes to the heart of the investigation, which is fairly loud signalling of Something Like this. For those of us hearing this, the senate says they didnt find any collusion, this is an important message. It is an important message. You have to ask what is the heart of their investigation. The heart of their investigation has already come out in the sense there are two indictments outstanding against russian intelligence operatives. Keep in mind, kilimnik is a russian intelligence operative, according to the fbi. One of those indictment relates to the use of social media, to micro target, potential Hillary Clinton voters to keep them from voting, to micro target trump voters, to get them to vote. And the other conspiracy relates to the breakins to the Democratic National committee to steal emails and documents and to stage and release those during the course of the campaign to help trump get elected. So, if you look at it from that standpoint, this meeting at the cigar bar is super important because, one, youve got manafort providing kilimnik, the russian intelligence operative, with very special polling information. Its not just 10 for clinton and 20 for trump. This is really granular information that goes to very specific geographic areas. So if you want to micro target, this is the kind of information these russian operatives needed. With respect to the whole business at the breakin at the Democratic National committee, they were talking about this socalled ukrainian peace plan, which is a euphemism for dropping the sanctions on russia. Right. Which is what the russians wanted out of this deal. There are a lot of euphemisms out of this deal. This is the quid pro quo for using the emails and documents to assist the Trump Campaign in getting elected. We knew about this back on december 1st, 2017 when general flynn pled guilty to lying to ambassador kislyak, the Russian Ambassador about sanctions because what happened was president obama, on december 28th of the prior year really through a Monkey Wrench into this whole deal by coming out with more sanctions on the russians. That created a whole line of communications among, in between flynn and maralago and flynns assistant k. T. Roland, and others in the Trump Administration, ultimately leading up to flynn lying about it. And if you look at his guilty plea, he admits that the materiality of that lie materiality is a critical element the government must prove to convict on a false statement count. He admits that the materiality related to the fbis investigation into the coordination between the russian government and the Trump Campaign. So, the only thing that could relate to is a quid pro quo, a promise to drop sanctions, just like they watered down the sanctions at the Republican National convention relating to ukraine. You said k. T. Roland. I think you meant k. T. Mcfarland. Mcfarland, sorry. This is the brother please portion of the interview. Richard burr from the Senate Intelligence committee slams Michael Cohen for now delaying when hes going to testify. His lawyer, lanny davis, goes on msnbc today he has shoulder surgery. Hes now taking medication and hes not able to go because he is under the weather. Hes healing. Hes healing. That interview is fascinating on a number of levels. The inaccuracies and misstatements lanny davis made. Those are also known as lies. Exactly. Lanny davis said Michael Cohen was under indictment. Thats not true. He said if it wasnt for Michael Cohens name being Michael Cohen, if he was Michael Smith he wouldnt have been investigated for this home equity loan. They had ten times the funds or whatever. What am i missing in calling him Michael Smith . He wouldnt been investigated, but because hes Michael Cohen, that he was investigated. And the problem for lanny davis is im holding the document. Thats life in the big city. You want to be famous and influential and cheat on your taxes or whatever it is, youre going to get attention. Lets take it a step further. How about federal prosecutors, im holding up their sentencing memorandum. They said he misled banks on several occasions about how much debt he had. And interestingly, prosecutors say, after it became public that Michael Cohen was the subject of a search warrant, he calls up one of the banks and says, here are my statements and here are my documents according to prosecutors. It does strain credibility a little bit. Some of the things lanny davis said during the interview. We give colleague Hallie Jackson credit for pushing back on some of the points he made. But when you have somebody that is making that many inaccurate statements then follows it up and says, you can rest assured my client is going to testify three times in the next how next two and a half three weeksz as hes preparing for jail. It raises significant questions. I think we could rename our station or network, it does strain credibility. Youre saying the same thing in a different way. Everybody gets in trouble, this business of lying to the bank about your assets. Its 2019. We have a mars rover like in mars. Dont lie about your assets. Its too easy to prove. Yes. If you are a random person in society, you thats correct. You chose not to be a random person in society. You wanted to be the president of the United States of americas fixer. And by the way, even now in the last few months, Michael Cohen is traipsing around new york city at some of the most famous restaurants so its hardly like hes not wagging it out there. Okay, coming up next, were talking about your money, money, money. New data shows lots of americans are overdoing it, shouldering a record amount of debt. The question is, are these signs that the economy is about to take a turn . Were going to find out what it means on the other side. Youre watching velshi ruhle on msnbc. Im mildly obsessed with numbers. So, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. And how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months the kind of clearance that can last. Humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. Numbers are great. And seeing clearer skin is pretty awesome, too. Thats what i call a body of proof. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Want more proof . Ask your dermatologist about humira. This is my body of proof. boy got it. dad its slippery. boy nooooooo. grandma nooooooo. dad nooooooo. dog yessssss. vo quick, the quicker picker upper bounty picks up messes quicker and is two times more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. boy hey look, i got it. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. It is time now to take a look at your money, money, money. New numbers show Many Americans are in dangerous financial positions. Despite the president s constant boast of the greatest economy ever, including just a short time ago in the oval office, saying the economy is doing fantastic. But according to a Study Released by the new york Federal Reserve, more than 7 million americans are behind on their car loan payments by 90 days or more. That is a million more people than the previous high back in 2010 as the country was beginning to recover from the greatest recession weve seen. And the volume of those loans is higher than ever. Topping out at more than 584 billion bucks of outstanding debt. If those loans begin to default which happens at the 90day delinquency mark, it could have a harsh effect on American Workers. According to analysis done by brookings institution, almost 128 million of the 150 million American Workers studied in a 2016 relied on their car or they car pooled to get to work. Losing that transportation method could cost some americans their actual jobs. Something that could then cascade through their personal lives. According to bank rate. Com, nearly a third of all americans thats 29 have more Credit Card Debt than they have in Emergency Savings. At least 18 of americans have no Emergency Fund whatsoever. And the rate of Credit Card Debt to Emergency Savings is higher than it has been in recent years. A perilous situation to be in as Economic Indicators are predicting a recession. And, ali, no one is saying it is the fault of the president that there could be a recession. No, no, no. This is where we are in the cycle. Its interesting to know given where the stock market is, how low unemployment is, given weve seen wages going up, given we have gdp growth, why it is were seeing an increase and people have more Credit Card Debt than savings and behind in their car loans. Lets bring in john harwood to see what this actually means. John, you know, we are all tea leaf people. We look at whats going on. Is this a harbinger of something dangerous coming or is it another sign of the inequality we have a tale of two americas, which we have for years. I think both. Look, when we talk about how good the economy is, were talking about a particular set of indicators. Talking about growth, talking about whats happening to unemployment, whats happening to stock values, that sort of thing. But underneath that, we know, given the statistics you just cited, that a significant swath of americans are simply not getting ahead and struggling to stay above water. The Federal Reserve also showed last year that 40 of the country could not come up with 400 bucks if they had an emergency like their car going on the fritz. Their credit cards were maxed out, they didnt have the cash. It is a dangerous sign. The further you get away from that financial crisis that we had in 2007, 8, 9, the more people get relaxed and take a little bit of risk and now were seeing some of that come back to bite them. Okay. And maybe bite all of us. Right. Back to the president s comments this morning and theyre not new these numbers we just talked about are stark contrast of what the president talked about today was a gallop pole that shows nearly 70 of americans think they will be better off financially next year at this time. Both things can be true, right . Both things can be true. You can be okay and thinking its getting better. You can be badly off and thinking its getting better. The two dont mean the same thing, right, john . Exactly right. Gallop earlier in january came out with a poll showing rising pessimism about the national economy. So people give different kinds of answers when theyre talking about the nations economy versus their own personal finances. But even in the poll that the president was citing, 69 of the people said that they think theyre going to be better off a year from now. But you still had something in the range of one in five saying they think theyll be worse off and that speaks to the people at the bottom rungs of the ladder that we were talking about who are squeezed and struggling to keep up. And thats whats driving a lot of the conversation in democratic president ial politics about what are people going to do for them in terms of minimum wage, in terms of health care coverage, all of the things that people need to raise their families. John, when we think about the impact of these numbers, are they could they be underlying causes of a slow down . Do people feed off of this 09 days is when it becomes a problem when you cant keep up with your car. Or are the result of a slow down. The result of a slow down, yeah. I think both. I dont think were likely to see a cascading effect of the kind that we saw with houses in 2008. When you talk about the big numbers involved in peoples mortgages and then securities security debts go unpaid, and you have this potential default of major institutions, i think this is a smaller scale problem, but its a real problem for them. And when you have an economy, a recovery thats now ten years in, it doesnt take a whole lot of miss fortunafortunate to tip balance and recovery. Some people predict minimal growth in 2020. Mark zander, thinks it will be 50 50 that well be in a recession lets just say for a moment on this auto loan debt, for example, knowing that its growing or its coming, is there anything lawmakers can do i mean, theyre not in a position to say youre forgiven. Im thinking back to the financial crisis. If august of 2008 suddenly the government woke up to the subprime crisis the world is falling apart because of it. Its a bad situation. The worst thats going to happen is people will lose their cars, which is really serious for a whole lot of people in this country, but it doesnt have the cascading effect on the National Global economy that the housing crisis did. In theory, in theory congress could do something, but i wouldnt expect it. Weve had debates for a number of years about the growing scale of Student Loan Debt and calls to do something about that. Its very difficult to get congress to intercede on an event of this kind. It was very hard to get people mortgage relief in 2008, 2009. Still controversial. Yeah. So i wouldnt expect action on this, but i think its definitely something that lawmakers are going to be watching and concerned about. And economists are going to be watching. John, thank you very much. John harwood is cnbcs editor at large. The kind of thing you dont want to be looking at eight months, ten months from now that was the first signal about trouble. You can say that about everything. Hindsight. Is 2020. Vicepresident pence is on the world stage in poland right now for a conference on the middle east in an exclusive interview with nbcs Andrea Mitchell, pence explains trumps threat to pull out of nato, well discuss it on the other side. Youre watching velshi ruhle live on msnbc. You should be mad at leaf blowers. [beep] you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. And you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. But youre not mad, because you have e trade which isnt complicated. Their tools make trading quicker and simpler. So you can take on the markets with confidence. Dont get mad. Get e trade and start trading today. You get the price match guarantee. So if you find your room at a lower rate, hilton is like. Were gonna match that rate and give you an extra 25 off. What would travel sites do if you found a different price . Thats not my problem, its your problem. Book at hilton. Com and get the hilton price match guarantee. What would it look like [if we listened more . ] could the right voice the right set of words bring us all just a little closer, get us to open up, even push us further . It could, if we took the time to listen. The most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories. Download audible and listen for a change. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. President trump has spent much of his time in office trashing nato and publicly doubting if the United States would come to the aid of some of our allies. Who else doesnt like nato . Vladimir putin. Ding. But vicepresident mike pence is in europe now trying to reassure the allies of the United States that we are committed at an International Summit on middle east policy. Hes doing that over the last few days. He spoke exclusively with our own chief Foreign Affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell. Heres what he had to say. President trump has made it clear the United States stands strongly behind the nato alliance, but we expect our nato allies to live up to their commitment, to invest more than 2 of their gdp on our common defense. Look, the president truly believes that burden sharing means that each of us does our part. I couldnt be more proud of the fact that as we stand here today our nato allies have invested 100 billion more in our common defense. Joining us now, nbcs Andrea Mitchell live in wausau. Andrea, the vicepresident seemed to be, i dont know, trying to recast the president s words there. But those are two very different messages. And havent we seen john bolton and mike pompeo on Similar Missions in the last few weeks . We have. And what mike pence is doing, what the vicepresident is doing, is coming to one of the nato countries where we have 800 american troops here as part of a nato deployment, and that is among the 4500 americans who are deployed here. This is a big military ally, and poland has been out front on spending even more than the 2 commitment. Theyve spent 40 billion over 15 years. They Just Announced today, mike pence did, an advance artillery weapon that the military has been wanting. They have f16s. This is a poster nation for nato solidarity to sort of offset what President Trump did at the nato summit where he openly talked about getting out of nato. That was one of the reasons why jim mattis, the former defense secretary, was so concerned. And then, of course, it was the syrian withdrawal that tipped the balance for him. Also talk of getting out of afghanistan which is a nato commitment. So there is a lot of tension with europe and principally also iran. Thats what mike pence is going to be talking about tomorrow. You did tap some discussion about that with him. You asked about a lot of our top allies including our european allies being upset about the u. S. Withdrawing from the iran nuclear deal. What indication did he give you about where that, where that conversation is headed . Well, the whole reason that they organized this summit and then they put a gloss on it, saying it was going to be more about the middle east, but it really is an antiiran summit which offended the british, the french, the germans, the e. U. , refusing to come. As you can hear, there are a lot of motorcades here, 50, 60 different countries. But theyre not represented by their top diplomats. Theyre Foreign Ministers who are snubbing the summit because they are trying to work around the u. S. Sanctions which are squeezing tehran. Its not accidental that this is the 40th anniversary of the iranian revolution this week, and all these countries are going to be at the munich security summit, the annual meeting of the Munich Security Conference at the end of the week that ill also be attending with mike pence. So you can see what theyre trying to do here, and not coincidentally also Rudy Giuliani, the president s private attorney, is here in a different capacity, he says. He spoke here with the m. E. K. , the manu raju aha dean formerly known as a terrorist group by the state department. No longer that, but they are the regime change advocates, the iranian exile group. And Rudy Giuliani apparently is here as their attorney and states man. What . Andrea, the sirens have died down. I was worried they were coming to you. To you or for you . I believe we have a bail program lock up in wausau. Good to see you. He wrote down bail. What is he talking about . You should always know who to call in case they lock you up. Andrea mitchell is poland. I doubt andrea is going to get arrested. A well need ghost busters. Measles had been eliminated in the United States 19 years ago. But right now but right now as a mom of school kids, this is so upsetting. There is an outbreak in ten states. What you need to know next. Please stick around. I want you to watch this. Youre watching velshi ruhle. And i recently had hi, ia heart attack. It changed my life. But im a survivor. After my heart attack, my doctor prescribed brilinta. Its for people who have been hospitalized for a heart attack. Brilinta is taken with a lowdose aspirin. No more than 100 milligrams as it affects how well brilinta works. Brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. In a clinical study, brilinta worked better than plavix. Brilinta reduced the chance of having another heart attack. Or dying from one. Dont stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor, since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. Brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. Dont take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. Slow heart rhythm has been reported. Tell your doctor about bleeding new or unexpected shortness of breath any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. If you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor if brilinta is right for you. My heart is worth brilinta. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. Please Pay Attention to this. Right now, a nationwide measles out break is getting worse. The cdc now confirms 101 cases since the start of the year across ten states coast to coast. That is 22 more cases since the agencys last report. In the state of washington alone, 55 cases. The governor there has declared a state of emergency. The cdc says the disease is spreading among those who either have not received the measles vaccine at all or who havent received the second dose. Officials say almost all of the 101 cases occurred in kids younger than 10 whose parents had chosen not to vaccinate them. Measles is a highly contagious disease caused by a virus. It spreads through coughing and sneezing. Health Officials Say if you have not been vaccinated and you are in a room with someone who has measles, youve got a 90 chance of getting it. Symptoms include a high fever, as high as 105 degrees. Also a cough, red eyes and a red rash that spreads. If you get it, you are likely to be sick for weekends. Now, it is preventable. The cdc says the measles vaccine is 97 effective after two doses. 93 effective after one dose. And it is safe for almost for most people out there. Exceptions include pregnant women and people who already have weakened immune systems. This is such an important story, ali. Its unbelievable. Joining us now is msnbc news contributor dr. Natalie azar. We declared measles was eliminated in the year 2000. 19 years ago. How does this happen . Then we had as we know a really vocal Antivaccine Movement that has generated a lot of misinformation to the tune of worldwide measles cases have increased to 2. 3 million last year. That is an increase before 50 . So much so that the World Health Organization has now listed Vaccine Hesitancy as one of the top ten threats of global health. So we go through history, we try and find vaccines so people dont get these highly contagious diseases which have killed people reduced effectiveness for hundreds of years, and now were moving backwards on some of this. Can we talk about the heart of the Antivaccine Movement . Yes. Because much of it seemed to be centered around this idea that vaccines cause optimism autism. What did i just say . Optimism. You are such an optimistic person. Vaccines for you do cause optimism. Lets be clear. The Research Study from the bmj what does that mean . British medical journal, guy by the name of wakefield. The research has been fully discredited. The paper was retralkted. The doctor lost his license. Debunked. Since 2003, the cdc has funded nine different studies that have absolutely not drawn a conclusion or said there is an association between, number one, mmr, thats the measles, mumps rubella vaccine and thimerisol and autism spectrum disorder. I want to make a note measles does not contain mercury. Even if you thought that was the case. The only one that does right now is a very small amount in a flu vaccine thats called a multidose vaccine. Right. You can choose not to get that one. Okay. If you would like to, but the amount that is in there and type of mercury that is in there is not considered by cdc to be harmful. How dangerous is it when kids get measles . Look, i think the default position for a lot of antivaccine people is that, well, its a childhood feel a l syndrome and you get over it, no big deal. There can be some serious consequences from measles infection, pneumonia and you can have hearing loss or a lifethreatening complication. For me as a physician, i am almost always most concerned of the vulnerable population as you alluded to. These are the young, these are people who immune system are compromised and pregnant women and people with chronic illnesses, theyre vulnerable to have a severe complication. Should they be exposed or develop measles. Doctor, it is really good to see you. We have talked about one economic theory yesterday that claims we dont have to balance our budget or worry about debts or deficit. The woman who popularized that theory joins us live. You are watching velshi velshi ruhle, live on msnbc. No more excuses with cologuard. We all make excuses for the things we dont want to do. But when it comes to colon cancer screening. Im not doin that. I eat plenty of kale. Ahem, as i was saying. With cologuard, you dont need an excuse. All that prep . No thanks. 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With a replacement you can trust. All done sir. Grandpa looks great tech thanks for choosing safelite. Grandpa thank you child bye tech bye saving you time. So you can keep saving the world. Kids safelite repair, safelite replace [ ding ] show me just add magic. Hey toothless. [ ding ] [ gurgling ] [ ding ] show me cartoons on netflix. [ ding ] [ cooing ] [ door closes ] [ cooing ] [ ding ] show me fish on youtube. Say it and see it with the x1voice remote. From netflix, prime video,youtube and even movie tickets. Just say get dragon tickets. All right, this is where it gets fun. We told you about an unconventional theory thats gaining tractions. First let me lay this out for you again for those who missed it. It is called modern monetary theory. Mmt suggests that government dont have to worry about debt. We need to spend more money on government programs, we print more. Too much money in the economy can result in inflation. Mmt suggests we use taxes, pulling money out of the economy before it over heats with inflation. They go to so far saying polly aims at budget hurts our economy. Some proponents of mmt thinks a Budget Surplus should be avoided at all cost. Instead of funneling it into the company, it is harmful than piling in on debt in the long run. This is the point that professor kelton took on earlier. Joining us now is stephanie kelton, chief economist for the democrats. Professor, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me. Conventional wisdom are good, de deficits are bad. There are good surpluses and bad surpluses, if i take further, good deficits and bad deficits. Yeah, thats right. So i think the way to think about it or at least i think about it is when a governor runs a budget deficit t sp, it is spg more dollars into the economy than taking out by taxing. A government defendant sit leaves the economy with some extra money to hold onto. What that means is the government is removing more dollars from the economy than it is spending back into the economy. And so the question really is which one do we think is beneficial at any point in time for the government to be making a deposit of dollars to the economy or sucking dollars out of the economy by running surpluses . Sorry, go ahead. How do we articulate this so we can debate it properly. One of the problems we had in the last couple of years is the president seems to be confused about how deficits work, i. E. , the difference between the budget deficit or a trade deficit. Because of that, so Many Americans are confused. Help us articulate how we can debate it. I dont think we have to adopt anything at all. I also think republicans understand this really, really well because they just put two trillion dollars onto future deficits and they did not worry about it at all. The reason is they understand and i think maybe better than the democrats that the government runs a deficit. It is a win fall. But, hold on is it fair to say that the president understands how deficit works, we are talking about somebody who has a career on building on debt and led to bankruptcy. This is not how debt for republicans have falter in the past. Remember when donald trump was taken on debt to do Real Estate Developments and casinos and that sort of thing, he was borrowing dollars as a private borrower, when the federal government spends, it is not like a householdme. It looks to me that donald trump figured out that the federal government gets to behave differently than household or a private business and the risk that private business faces when it takes on too much debt are entirely different. I am glad you said that because i am tired of saying politicians saying it is like your Household Budget or credit card. If you can create more money on demand which we do, why does that not ultimately lead to inflation . Does your dollar becomes worth less if you had not print more . Why do you think it is not happening. For my entire lifetime, dont look up my age, for my entire lifetime, the federal government in the United States had been running budget deficits with the exception of four years. We already knew this. Despite the fact that the government does run the budget, almost always and that renaults in the government creating money in the government. In spite of those deficits, we still have an economy thats operating below its capacity. We are not running at our maximum speed limit. If we get to the maximum speed limit, thats when Inflationary Pressure becomes a risk. Stephanie kelton, thank you for joining us and engaging in the discussion. Please come back. Stephanie kelton, thank you for watching velshi and ruhle, i am stephanie ruhle. Right now we hand it off to our dear friend, katy tur. We have the shutdown and senator bennett talking about 2020 and larger issues and Denver Public schools and governor jay ansley today. And Andrea Mitchell. The Prime Minister of israel, benjamin netanyahu, the official twitter account says the whole meeting was to discuss the common interest of war with iran. I dont know about you but it sounds like a pretty big story. We have a lot of news. Enjoy, see