Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Velshi And Ruhle 20171106

Armed with an Assault Rifle. The gunman was related to some folks who go to church here. His exs inlaws or exinlaws went here. Thats what we understand. He was court marshalled on Domestic Violence charges, given a bad conduct discharge. If thats the case, ordinarily, hed still be legally qualified to have the semiautomatic weapon he used in the attack. If it was for Domestic Violence, which apparently it was, that would have disqualified him. He would seek to get a permit in the state, and it was denied. Rolling back an obamaera regulation that made it harder for people with Mental Illnesses to buy guns. I think that Mental Health is the problem here, based on preliminary reports. Very deranged individual. Americans do what they do best. We pull together. We join hands. We lock arms. Through the tears and through the sadness, we stand strong. Oh, so strong. Were going to get to the latest developments in just a moment. First, i want to introduce you to this tiny town of Sutherland Springs, so you can understand why the shooting at the First Baptist church, right there over my shoulder, is so particularly devastating. The town is home to only about 650 people. Even that number is hard to get a handle on. Its got a post office, which is just in front of me. Its got two gas stations to either side of me. A Dollar General store. With 26 People Killed and another 20 injured, that means about 1 in 14 people in this town were either killed or injured by gunfire yesterday. Again, 1 in 14, killed or injured in this mass shooting. Were expecting to get the latest from the investigators in moments. You can see over my shoulder assembly of reporters there, getting ready to hold a News Conference from the scene, probably in the next 10 to 15 minutes. Well bring it live as soon as it happens. We are getting a lot of information with each report from the police. First, here are the latest developments. We are learning more about the victims. The Wilson County sheriff we are in Wilson County, texas says more than half of the victims are children. At least 12 are children, possibly as many as 14. The Washington Post is reporting that eight members of a Single Family were killed, up collu including a bib aby girl. The suspect, Devin Patrick kelley, had a tie to the First Baptist church. The sheriff saying his estranged or exwife had attended the church in the past along with her parents. Thats a thread of the story were getting more information of. The new details are coming in about kelleys background. Hes a former member of the air force who was given a bad conduct discharge in 2014. Hed been court marshalled in 2012 on charges of assaulting his wife and child. Those specific charges, not just the bad conduct mischarge, but the Domestic Assault should have disqualified him from being able to get a gun. Weve been covering this all night. I want to bring in my colleague now. You just have spoken to the sheriff so you got the latest information. What do we know . We know also that this church, ali, they usually Record Videos that were later posted to youtube. They were able to get their hands on the video that was shot yesterday, and they said that it wasnt it didnt reveal much. It was too short a video. He did say the devastating numbers that you cited, 12 to 14 childrenceased in this shooting. He also confirmed the link with the parents and the estranged wife. They had been to this church before, but they were not local. They were not really known to the members of this community. He wasnt on Law Enforcements radar either. I asked, have you been able to go to Devin Kelleys home . He is from a neighboring county and he had a home in a suburb of san antonio. He said he personally had not been able to go to the home. He was getting assistance from Texas Rangers to do that. He said, there were so many of them. We cant go to the home at this point. That underscores what you were talking about in the beginning, in terms of how small this community is and how large and complex this investigation is. This scene behind us may have become more local Law Enforcement on the ground. You see different types of Law Enforcement here. They didnt have a lot of ambulances around here. Theyve taken people as far as san antonio, a 45minute drive. I heard the American Red Cross asking for volunteers to aid first responders, just with the supplies, because theyve been here almost theyre going to hit 24 hours pretty soon. Thats how small this community is. In addition to that, i asked the sheriff, what is the next step in the investigation . He said, the crime scene youre looking at is what we have to go through with a fine tooth comb, in terms of the positions of the bodies, have they been removed and what exactly happened . Thats why access is restricted. Completely blocked off right behind us over there. Craig melvin had a chance to talk to the sheriff. Lets play a little bit of it in the sheriffs words. They were not here yesterday to attend church, but they did come yesterday afternoon and speak to the investigators. In the aftermath of the shooting . In the aftermath. Have we been able to glean anything from conversations with them about what might have motivated this . Not at this time. What about this neighbor, this hero neighbor . Had it not been for him had it not been for him, i mean, we may have lost more people. I mean, or he may have gotten away. You know, no one at the time, i think, knew what he was driving. Thank god for this neighbor. All right. I want to bring in terry smith right now. She owns the restaurant that is in the gas station across the road. It is called teresas kitchen. In fact, you made me breakfast this morning, and i thank you. I think you made breakfast for pretty much everybody around here. This is a small place. There arent a lot of places like this. They think that the gunman parked there in the gas station where the restaurant is and walked over to the church. What have you heard about this . No. We were out here in the parking lot when we saw a gentleman he was parked not here but across the street right there. Okay. He was holding like a gun, like a rifle gun. Of course, were country people so, you know, i mean, its not youve seen guns. Youve seen people carrying guns. We walked into the store. Thats when we heard the first round of shots. We ran outside and thats when the gentleman was shooting outside the church. He was shooting towards the church. And he ran around the Church Shooting until he came to this other side. We were trying to get the people to safety, trying to get them down, the customers, and get them in the store. The people pulling up, letting them know there was a shooter. The gentleman came around, then there was silence. We didnt hear any more shots for a couple of seconds. Then we heard a massive load of shots. I believe thats when he was in the church. And we couldnt do anything because we didnt know if there was more of them. All of a sudden, we see one of the victims running out. He came across the street towards the store, and he was bloody on his arms, part of his face. We let him in the store. We had him on the ground. Then we see hes telling us his family is in there and somebody had gone in and shot up everybody. And his family he kept saying, my family, my family. We see a gentleman run out and run into this like an suv. And we heard more shots. But they werent like rounds, like solid pops. May have been the man we were talking to who chased him down, johnnie langendorff. The gentleman in the white suv, he spun out and he lost control a little bit right here. The other vehicle, the truck, came back, you know, was following him. We remember seeing his glass shatter from his vehicle in the chase. It went on. The chase went down there. It went down that way. I was in your restaurant, which is part of the gas station just next to us, this morning. We were all all of us. There must be hundreds of reporters here. Everybody came to you, and you were you had as much of a smile as you could put on your face. You were making breakfast for everyone. But everybody knew you. Thats the kind of town this is, right . A man was showing you a new tattoo he got on his sleeve. Yes. Tell me about this town. This community is very united. Its a very Small Community. And our store here is like the center point, you know. If somebody is sick, people come to help them. If somebody if there is a death, people come together. If somebody passes away and doesnt have money, we have fundraisers to help them bury their loved ones. Were a very close community. Youve never faced this, never faced a challenge like this . No, no. Every now a then, a little, you know, scuffle or something, but never anything drastic like this. Never. What have people who have come in because you are the equivalent of the barbershop or the bar. Yes. This is the place. Yes. Terrys kitchen in the gas station is where people probably come to talk. What has the talk . What have the people said to you today, who havent been reporters like us . Everybody is in shock. Everybody is devastated. Its such a horrible tragedy. We dont know all of the names yet, all of the victims. Were playing a guessing game on the customers, when they come in. Were very happy to see them. Wow. So you see a face walk in, and you think to yourself, theyre not shot. They werent killed . Yeah. Wow. We dont know the names of everybody else. Terry, thank you for all youre doing. Thank you, because i know youre going right back to feed everybody again. Everybody you look at here is going to get their lunch at terrys kitchen. Thank you. Can i share one more thing . Yes, please. Were a very good community. And everybody here accepts everybody, whether youre rich or poor, young or old. Everybody comes through. Everybody is here. We would hilike to let the worl know that there are good communities, there are good people. And if we all come and stay united, you know, we can conquer things like this. Were asking for prayers because weve lost a lot of people that are very close to our hearts. And a lot of children are gone. I just ask everybody for prayers. Our prayers are with you. That, i know. The prayers of the nation and the world are with you. Terry, thank you. We really do stand with you and hope that this community heals. It is a very hard, hard blow for a town like this, a small town. This would be a hard blow for any community to take, but this one is particularly hard. Standby, everybody. Our breaking News Coverage continues right now from Sutherland Springs, texas. Well be back after this break. Investigators and officials are minutes away from holding a press conference over there. We will bring that to you. Its got the very latest information. They are sharing a lot of information with us as they get it. You can see the fbi officers with metal detecters trying to find shell casings. Were also going to dig into new details emerging this morning about how the assailant got the Assault Rifle. There were bodies on top of bodies. They were having to move the bodies to see if anybody underneath was alive or breathing. Ohhh. Ooh ohh here we go, here we go. You got cut off there, what were you saying . Oooo. Oh no no. Maybe that geico has been proudly serving the military for over 75 years . Is that what you wanted to say . Mhmmm. I have to say, you seemed a lot chattier on tv. Geico. Proudly serving the military for over 75 years. You ok back there, buddy . Welcome back to velshi ruhle. Im ali velshi, live in s Sutherland Springs, texas. Stephanie is in new york. You can see the reporters behind me. Were waiting for a News Conference. You can see the police line. Two buildings, one in the middle and one on the left, all parts of the First Baptist church. It is a few buildings together. Thats where the shooting took place. Where the reporters are you see, thats as for as the police line goes forward. That press conference is going to start momentarily. Well go to it. Investigators this morning are getting a clearer look, trying to get a clearer profile of Devin Patrick kelley, the suspected gunman, who arrived at the First Baptist church ready for war. Dressed in all black, tactical type gear, and was wearing a ballistic vest. Overnight, authorities were on kelleys property nearby. Neighbors say theyve often heard gunshots and explosions in the past. Deputies have not yet entered his home. The 26yearold is a former air force member. The relevant here is he was court marshalled in 2012 for assaulting his spouse and a child. Also given a oneyear prison sentence. He was reduced in rank and released from the military with a bad conduct mischarge. He has no apparent links to terrori terrorism. Police think they have a better idea of how the suspect died. There was some gunfire exchanged i think on the roadway, also. Then he wrecked out. At this time, we believe that he had a selfinflicted gunshot. He shot himself after he pulled over . After he wrecked out. Lets go back to the scene right behind me right now, where a press conference is about to get underway. You can see now this is the shot between the line where all the reporters are and the church is. You can see those Law Enforcement people who are getting ready to walk up now in preparation for the press conference. That should be underway within a couple of minutes. You see every form of Law Enforcement in texas there. Well bring that in a minute. Lets go back to new york. Stephanie . Thanks, ali. Pete Williams Joins us, along with hans nichols at the pentagon. Pete, do we know anything more about why he targeted this small church in this Tiny Community . Not definitively. Theres no connection to terrorism, they say. It is becoming clearer and clearer, according to the federal officials ive just talked to, that he had a troubled past, that the reason he targeted this church is because the relatives of his current wife lived there, but they were apparently estranged. He had a troubled past. In addition to his discharge from the military, many of the people who knew him say he had a very volatile temper. They describe him as a troubled person. So that is the picture thats emerging. One other thing here, stephanie, is the circumstances of his conviction in the military. Should that have been entered into the system, that would then be checked when he bought the gun. We know he bought the gun, an apparently legal sale, just last year in the San Antonio Air yra. Why, if these factors in his military background were true, if in the system, would they have legally disqualified him . Thats whoo weat were trying figure out. Hans, he had a bad conduct discharge. How is that different from dishonorable . It is slightly less severe. The air force is saying he was convicted of assault and aggravated assault. Because both those crimes, even within the military, are Domestic Violence crimes, because of the lautenberg amendment, former senator lautenberg from new jersey, thatd mean hed be put on a list in a universal Law Enforcement system that would prevent him from getting a firearm. So yes, he didnt relieve the dishonorable discharge, the strongest level, which is sometimes equated with a felony hans, i have to interrupt. The press conference in texas is starting now. Director of Public Safety. Ill read something to start off this press briefing. Almost 24 hours ago, this community was struck by unthinkable tragedy. First and foremost, wed like to keep our thoughts and prayers with the families who have lost loved ones, the victims who were injured and the entire community who has come together to support each other during this difficult time. Our investigators worked tirelessly around the clock since the shooting. We will continue to do so to gather all the facts and evidence in this investigation. Heres what we confirm at this point. The deceased, there are 26 decreased, 23 in the church, two outside the church and one at the hospital. The total wounded include the total number is 20. There are six in stable condition or have been released. There are four in serious condition. Ten that remain in Critical Condition. So this number could rise. We ask that everyone keep them in your thoughts and prayers. The names of the victims will be released as soon as all of the next of kin have been notified. We appreciate everyones understanding and the sensitive nature and process. The suspect we can confirm is Devin Patrick kelley. He is 26 years old, white male. He currently he was residing in new brothals, texas. Hell be examined by a pathologist during the autopsy. But the suspect may have died from a selfinflicted gunshot wound. We can tell you, as in with all active shooter situations, the number one goal of Law Enforcement is to neutralize the shooter. In this situation, we had two Good Samaritans that did that for Law Enforcement. This call went out as an active shooter call. Law enforcement was responding. We know that a local resident that lives across the street from the church heard what was going on. He armed himself with an ar Assault Rifle and engaged the suspect. They engaged in gunfire here at the church. We know that the suspect was shot when he dropped his Assault Rifle, jumped in his Ford Expedition and fled the scene. This Good Samaritan, our texas hero, flagged down another young man and jumped in his vehicle. They pursued the suspect. We know during that pursuit, the suspect used his cell phone to notify his father that he had been shot and didnt think he was going to make it. Sub gesequent subsequently, he shot himself. So as i said, the pathologist will determine the cause and manner of his death. We can confirm that the suspect did not have a license to carry. The suspect did have a noncommissioned, unarmed, private security license, similar to a security dpaguard a concert type situation. There were no disqualifiers entered into the National Crime Center Database that would preclude him from receiving a private security license. Private security background checks, includie ining fingerpr from the National Crime information Center Databases were checked, and he was cleared. I can tell you, there is video recording from inside the church that has been secured. We have viewed the video. The Crime Scene Investigation will go on for days. All the bodies have been removed from the church. Our victims will be autopsied at the bear county medical examiners office. As i said, our suspect was autopsied this morning in travis county. That information will be forthcoming. We know you have a lot of questions. Well answer what we can. To start off with, i think were going to go to the special agent in charge of atf to answer questions that he can answer. His assistance to this investigation, the suspect and his purchase of the firearms. Good morning. My name is fred, milanowski. Im the special ajengent in cha of houstons atf division. First and foremost, our hearts go out to the citizens of this community. And the victims families. It is obviously tragic for all of us. What i can confirm, there was three firearms that have been recovered. One was the ruger 556 rifle recovered at the scene of the church. Two additional handguns were recovered from the vehicle of the deceased suspect. One was a glock 9 miler and the other was a ruger 22. All three firearms were purchased by the deceased suspect. Theres been a lot of information in the media, questions about the discharge of this individual from the military. What i will tell you right now is that in general, if an individual has a dishonorable discharge from the military, they would be prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms. This specific investigation, we are early in the investigation, we do not have all the documentation yet, so until we can get all the documentation to determine exactly what his discharge was, exactly what his conviction in the military, we will not is a determination on if this individual was prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms. Thank you. Next, well have the Wilson County sheriff joe tackitt. I think i spoke to most of you this morning. Some things have changed since Early Morning when i spoke to you. We will be getting back with yall later. If you need to try to contact me, i think most of you did get my telephone number. Right now, our hearts are going out to all the family members that have lost family or have family in the hospital. Tha thank, yall. Next, well have the fbi special agent in charge, chris combs. Good morning. Im the fbi special agent in charge. First of all, our condolences to this community on this horrific act. Were here with our partners, the dps and the rangers, we work wi every day in supporting them, assisting in any way we can. Right now, were providing some of the evidence teams support and also some technical support, with phones, video we talked about, going back to our lab at quanico. Well be in support as long as they need. Thank you. Everybody wants to know, why did this happen . Its a senseless crime. We can tell you that there was a domestic situation going on within this family. The suspects motherinlaw attended this church. We know that he had made threatening shed received threatening texts from him. We cant go into details about that domestic situation that is continuing to be vetted and thoroughly investigated, but we want to get that out there, that this was not racially motivated. It wasnt over religious beliefs. There was a domestic situation going on within the family with the inlaws. Next, the Wilson County District Attorney would like to say something. Good morning. We learned this morning just how small town america truly is. Weve had a tremendous outpouring across the country for people wanting to assist our families in need. I want to make sure that everyone knows how they can help. Everyone can help. You can help by praying for these families and their loved ones. First and foremost. Everyone can do that. The other thing is, you can help these families financially. So we are working and in the process of setting up two bank accounts. The Sutherland Springs Community Association has a bank account through Commerce Bank in stock dale that will be accepting monetary donations on behalf of the families. In addition to that, wells fargo will have an account, as well, set up for the victims of Sutherland Springs. That will be available for anyone to help. What we do not need at this point are canned goods and nonperishable items for the families. If you want a way to help, it is through prayer and it is through financial donations. So we appreciate you guys sharing that information. We are very grateful for this country and just the tremendous outpouring of support that these families are starting to receive. We want to make sure that Everybody Knows how they can help. Thank, yall, very much. Also with us today, we have two texas ranger majors, cory and brian, who are the incident commanders for the investigation. We will try to answer any of your questions you have at this time. What does the video show . Of course, the video will assist in the investigation. It was a horrific event. At this time, were not prepared to talk about the video. Could you explain what happened after the shooting happened . Could you back up and give us a description, the reports that he was at the gas station . We know he was scene at the valero. It was he was obviously suspicious to others, based on the way he was dressed, in all black. At that time, im not sure if he had the mask on or not. But he was wearing a black mask that had a white face, skull face to it. He drove across to the church, and thats when he exited the vehicle and started the shooting. He was wearing a ballistic vest with a plate on the front. There was no plate on the back, but he was wearing a ballistic vest, yes. [ inaudible ]. At this time, i cannot. We know that he expressed anger toward his motherinlaw, who attends this church. Do we know if she reported it to authorities before . We dont. Do we know if it had anything to do with his estranged wife . We cant answer that. One more question [ inaudible ]. Had it not been for the Good Samaritan s . We can only speculate. You know would you call this domestic terror . Probably a better question for when did he buy the let him answer the question. Was this domestic terror . No, at this time, we dont have a terrorism investigation open. The rangers are the lead. They have the investigation. Were supporting them. Chris combs, fbi. So what we know is that he bought four weapons in total. Two of them were bought in colorado. Two of them were bought here in texas. One more question there was one purchased per year in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. When in 2017 . [ inaudible ]. Up the center aisle shooting and going back down the center aisle shooting . Can you describe what happened . Im sorry. I couldnt hear. The question is, describe what happened inside the church. Did he walk down the center aisle shooting and walk back down . Without getting into too much detail, the subject, there were some length of time the subject spent inside that church in the shooting event. He moved around freely inside the church. Im not going to get into his dynamics within the church. The pastor and his wife last question. Has the pastor and his wife returned from the out of state trip . The pastor has returned. Can you describe kind of what theyre going through right now . I can only imagine what he is going through. How many children were inside the church . We dont have all the information. There are several obviously, there were children. The exact ages yesterday, we released information the ages ranged from 5 to 73. Those were the ones being treated at the hospital. Inside the church, the deceased, actually ranged from 18 months to 77 years of age. Ladies and gentlemen, we will tweet follow us on twitter, please. We will tweet something, as well. We plan on having a press briefing around 7 00 this afternoon. For clarification, there are [ inaudible ] . Were not going to release that information. Ladies and gentlemen, thank, yall, for coming. Im freeman martin, freeman. Martin, martin. The press conference is just wrapping up. We heard from the County District attorney, Public Safety department, fbi, atf and the sheriff. Ali velshi, when you put into perspective how this tiny town was hit, you said it earlier, 7 of the population, it seems there is a lot of questions being asked about who this man was and the warning signs. We talk about radicalization. Right. When did he become so disturbed . It is more than mental illness. It is more than warning signs. What could have been done heading into this, in a town where people know one another so well . Yeah, so we are in Wilson County. Back in the old days, in the 1850s, this place, Sutherland Springs, was the seat of the county. It was a bustling little place. It is less bustling now. Were on the parking lot of a post office. The valero station the authorities were talking about is right across the road. There is another gas station there. There is not much in this town. What we got out of this press conference were a few details but they are important. The daughter of the pastor was one of the People Killed. The pastor and his wife were both out of town in separate places and came back. They did that. She was just 14 years old. Yeah. 14 years old. Thats the other piece of this, that 12 to 14 of the 26 who are dead were kids. We just heard from authorities that while weve been talking about people aged 5 to 72, those are the people being treated at the hospital. The victims, age 18 months to 77. I was going to ask my control room to hold on for a second. I want to finish what im saying here. There were four guns purchase over the last four years, two in texas and two in colorado. We are learning more from authorities that there is some issue about the gunman and some issue that he had with his motherinlaw, who did attend this church. I want to go to Brooke Army Medical center where victims are being treated. Honored to serve our community in the role as a level i trauma center. We train every day to be ready at a moments notice. Whether it is for a natural disaster, for a mass casualty event or for combat. Our staff stands ready to meet the needs of our community. Our nation expects this of us. We stand ready. We are proud to serve our community and our nation. We are unable to i want to go back. Were going to monitor whats going on at brooke. Lets go back to the press conference and listen in. Pa riwe were very close. We ate together, laughed together, cried together and worshipped together. Now most of our Church Family is gone. Our building is probably beyond repair. And the few of us that are left behind lost tragically yesterday. As senseless as this tragedy was, our sweet belle would not have been able to deal with losing so much family yesterday. Dont forget Sutherland Springs. And lift his name in krichri. Everything is in christ. Can we get your name . Frank and sherri pomeroy. Pomeroy. How long have you been the pastor . 15 years. What do you tell the other grieving families . Im still working on that. Thank you. Members of the media, thank you. Were done. Christ is the one who is going to be lifted up. Thats what im telling everybody. You lean into what you dont understand. You lean into the lord. Submit this to everyone, my families here, you guys there, whatever life brings to you, lean on the lord rather than your own understanding. I dont understand. I know my god does. Thats where ill leave that. Thank you for coming. Again, follow us we will email you. On twitter, as well. Follow us on twitter, as well, for updates. Stephanie, that was pastor Frank Pomeroy and his wife. They were both out of town yesterday at separate events. His wife had called from charlotte airport, trying to get home, and said theyd heard their daughter had been shot. They learned their daughter was dead before they even got back here. Again, stephanie, point we were making, this is a tiny, little town. If there are 600 people in this town, we dont really know how many there are. Its that small. There were 200 who were members of this church. More than 100 who regularly attend this church. I mean, this is something that is kind of impossible for the people in this town to process, stephanie. Ali, thats why the words of frank and his wife, sherri, are so powerful. Think about this couple. Sherri pomeroy right there said they lost theres their daughter right there, their adopted daughter. She was 14 years old. She lost her life yesterday. Her mother, sherri, had just said, she would not have been able to handle losing her Church Family like this. Frank and sherri lost their Church Community and the building is most likely beyond repair. The shooter entered when they were worshipping. The majority of peoples backs were facing the door. Think about the devastation that has hit this Tiny Community. The District Attorney, who was speaking earlier, who was asking for support, said, dont send canned goods at this point. Theyre Opening Two Bank accounts to help people in the Community Try to rebuild. Ali mentioned it earlier. One extended family lost eight family members inside the church yesterday. 7 of this town, of this community. Thats like a bomb going off in new york city. We have to put that in perspective. I want to bring back in nbcs justice correspondent pete williams, live in washington, d. C. Pete, you listened to the press conference, as we did. While were getting limited information because theyre trying very hard to investigate this situation, theyre dealing with all of these victims and trying to figure out the motive here, but what did you learn . What stood out . I think its been pointing in this direction since last night, that this was not an act of terrorism. This was not racially motivated. This had nothing to do with religion. This was basically a Small Community and a basically Domestic Violence kind of situation. We knew last night that devin kelley, the gunman, had relatives that lived in Sutherland Springs and attended that church. Now were told that he was in a dispute with his motherinlaw. Hed been sending her threatening messages. Thats certainly the direction in which this is going. Hes 26, lived in comal county, ju where authorities are in the process of searching his house. Hed been court marshalled, kicked out of the air force after he was convicted of assaulting his wife and child. It was a bad conduct discharge, not a dishonorable discharge. Thats important. He would not have been able to buy that gun if it was properly recorded in his record that he had a dishonorable discharge. It is disqualifying under federal law for buying a gun. The question here is, did those other factors, the assault conviction and the fact that he served 12 months in detention, do those count as disqualifying factors under federal law . Would they be the same as a felony, the same as a Domestic Violence conviction . Not 100 clear. The conviction he had for assault is article 128 of the uniformed code of military justice. All that says is a sassault. If the people doing the background check at the fbi saw he had an assault conviction, it wouldnt necessarily be a disqualifying factor, unless they could look at his court records. We dont know what information is available to them. Thats one big question here, stephanie. Was the information about his past in the records . If so, were they checked . Third, if they were checked, would they is it clear under the law that they would have disqualified him from buying the semiautomatic rifle, which we know he bought last year in san antonio . Pete, define for us what terrorism means. If you look at our twitter feeds right now, people are screaming, saying if this isnt terrorism, i dont know what is. Sure. There is confusion about what defines terrorism. Well, in terms of the law, terrorism is defined as an act for a political end, to try to persuade the government to do something differently. So thats what the essence of terrorism is as a legal matter. To try to put by creating some awful situation, some horrible crime to force the government to change its policy. To force the military to withdraw from somewhere. To force somebody from not passing a law or to repeal a law. There doesnt appear to be any element of that here. This seems to be plain old rage and taking it out on somebody. A lot of innocent victims along, as well. It is terrifying. Under the law, it is not terrorism. Now, does it matter . Not really. For the purposes of the law, it doesnt matter. The suspect is dead. But if the suspect had survived, he would certainly be facing multiple counts of murder. Whether it is considered terrorism or not wouldnt matter for the prosecution. Only other thing it matters, stephanie, is if it is domestic terrorism or international terrorism, the fbi takes over. You heard the fbi saying theyre there to support local Law Enforcement. Thats the definition. It also matters as people are trying to figure out, did this man act alone . Was he acting on behalf of a Different Group . Could there be a follow up act . None of those factors seem to be there, right. Can you speak for a minute about the gun laws in texas . Right now, theres lots of dispute. Should we have a conversation about gun control . In the state of texas, how do things differ there from other states . In terms of owning a rifle, which is the weapon he used in the shooting, not much. Youve heard some reference today that he did not have a texas gun permit. But that has nothing to do with whether he could buy or possess the rifle legally. That is to do with texas is concealed carry law. Whether he could carry it in public. But thats not the issue here. The issue is, was he legally qualified to buy that gun last dwre year in san antonio . It is a matter of federal, not state law. Thatd be the same in any state in the country. One other thing, there are some states that ban socalled assault the purchase and possess of Assault Rifles, which is what was used in the Church Shooting. But texas you could also drive over state lines. I think about chicago, illinois has stricter gun laws but neighbor hoing states. For a rifle, yes. For a handgun, no. Thank you, pete. As we continue to cover this deadly shooting at a church in texas. 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In a News Conference just moments ago, an official with the state department of Public Safety gave a little more information about the suspects background including that there was a domestic situation going on in the family. The suspects motherinlaw attended this church. We know that he had made threatening threatening texts from him. And we cant go into details about that domestic situation that is continuing to be vetted and thoroughly investigated. Officials also gave an update about the victims. Now saying they range in age from just 18 months to 77 years old. Ten people are still in Critical Condition and i want to bring in nbcs katie beck now at University Hospital in san antonio, a trauma one center. Katie, im afraid to even ask. What is the latest with those injured . Reporter well, good morning, stephanie. So many of those families we were talking about are grieving this morning. There are other families that are holding on to hope clinging to any possibility that their loved ones hospitalized here are going to pull through. The trauma surgeons here have been working through the night to try and save these patients. As of right now, we are aware of five shooting victims here in the hospital. Three of those five being children and they are all in serious or Critical Condition. Sadly, we are aware of one child who died here after being transported to the hospital last night and was unable to be saved. We are also aware of a 5yearold boy nimed island ward who has gone through several surgeries now. He was shot five times in that Church Shooting and is now here at the hospital, as well. We have been told there is a Blood Donation that is happening in the lobby of the hospital that started at 8 00 a. M. This morning and is going to go throughout the day. The hospital expects is many people will show up to donate and they need the blood for victims still being treated. Were expecting to hear from a trauma surgeon later today to give us more information. He has been treating these children throughout the night but obviously many family members that are hoping for a miracle for hoping that their loved ones will recover and somehow survive this horrible tragedy. Stephanie . Thanks so much. Nbcs katie beck. Please pray for those families. Now lets send it back to ali velshi live on the scene. Ali . Stephanie, 26 lives were lost on sunday morning. 26 lives in roughly 15 seconds. Half of them were children including a 18monthold child. Among them was the pastors daughter annabelle pomeroy, just 14 years old. Both of her parents were out of town when the shooting happened. Those who knew her described her as quiet and shy but always smiling. At least eight members of one family were killed including brian holcomb, the associate pastor of the church and his wife karla. Crystal holcomb was reportedly eight months pregnant when she was shot. She died along with her three chirn while two other family members were killed. Among those recovering is 5yearold ryan ward. Hes in stable condition after surviving as katie beck said five gunshot wounds to his stomach, groin and arm. His mother and two sisters were reportedly killed in the shooting. Joining me now is beulah wilson, a long time Sutherland Springs resident. Youve been here for 60 years. 63. 63 years. You know the holcombe family. Eight of them have died. Its airline. Horrible. Its like a bad dream. You cant wake up. Youve been you are a member of this church . I was a member of the church and then we got called into starting new churches. And so now we just kind of float around. So youve known some of these parishioners for a very long time. Yes, yes, i have. And sweet, loving, but the whole community is just like that. Seems that way. Everybody were meeting in the face of their own grief is its like theyre welcoming everybody here to cover the story. This seems to be a very, very caring community. It is, it is. Our lives are interlaced with other families and its just like one big community. One big family. And when one hurts, we all hurt and we all we bond. We come to one another, helping one another. Were just people trying to exist. We cant believe it happened in a Quiet Community like this. What do you know of the holcombe family . I know that those people were wonderful christians. They believe nef gospel, witnessing and working in the church. They were just wonderful. And very called by god to do that. How did you hear about this. We were visiting another church further up the road. We come out of the church and someone come and told us that dont go back through Sutherland Springs which we had to come here to get over there. And said theres a shooter loose. Thats all we knew. And so we went to the restaurant across the highway. And we said well, lets go ahead and eat lunch and wait it out. So we sat there. Well, my daughter started getting text messages, and we got to thinking, well, why would a shooter be here . Theres nothing here. You know, all people congregating would be in the church and she got a message it was the church he hit. You knew that. Look, it is its a place that some people work in the oil industry, some people work at schools. But its not a hustly, bustly place. No, it isnt. Its quiet, calm. Its just like one big family. I work the Postal Office for the post office over there and i was there 23 years. So i got to know all these people. Their families. Their problems. You know, this kind of thing. And 63 years of living here, did anything ever come close to this degree of tragedy . Oh, no. We couldnt believe it, not here. It happened everywhere else. It happened somewhere else. Couldnt happen here but it did. Its like a bad dream we cant wake up from. People youve been talking to, whats the reaction been . I havent got to talk to many. I still dont know who all got killed. I know we lost friends. We lost friends. I dont know which ones. I just know that the holcomb es. Terry who runs the gas station every time a familiar customer comes in, she breathes a sigh of relief because she doesnt know who has been killed. Thats right. I understand they have to sort out so much but i know its coming and i know its going to be painful that whenever i find out who is still here and whos not. And but our community is just unique. You know, were not incorporated. We dont have any law. You know protecting except for the deputies that might come over here. But we just bond together. Everybodys on the same level. We have no big wealth. We have no industry here. People have to go somewhere else to get work. And come back here to live. And so when one of us hurts, something happens to one of us, it happens to all of us. Beulah, the thoughts of the nation and i think the world are with you here in Sutherland Springs. And we continue to mourn with you. Oh, thank you. Its going to be hard but our god is still in control. Thank you, beulah. Youre welcome. Beulah wilson, a 63year resident of Sutherland Springs. Here we are on this scene. That is the church behind us. Investigators working hard to try and find as much information as they can quickly to try and determine why the shooter did what he did and as beulah pointed out, we still dont know who all the victims are. We know 26 people are killed. At least 12, maybe 14 of them are children. The youngest victim was 18 months old. The oldest was 77 years old. We will stay here. We will continue to cover the story for you. Thank you for watching this hour of very shi and rhule. Im ali velshi. My colleague Stephanie Rhule is in new york right now. Andrea mitchell reports. Right now, sunday morning massacre. 26 people including at least 12 children gunned down during Church Services in a small texas town. The victims ranging in age from 18 months to the 77 years old. The gunman is dead. Officials are left searching for answers. Its a senseless crime but we can tell you that there was a domestic situation going on within this family. The suspects motherinlaw attended this church. We know that he had made threat threatening she had received threatening texts from him. Too soon with two of the deadliest Mass Shootings in American History just in the past month. Gun control advocates say it is time to get serious about tougher laws. President trump says no. This isnt a guns situation. I mean we could go into it but its a little bit soon to go into it. This is a Mental Health problem at the highest level. Its a very vet sad event. Its a these