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Him, according to german officials. The New York Times reports he was on a u. S. No fly list. Overnight raids in berlin and across germany failed to find him. One of his brothers in tunisia is now urging him to sur render. All of this as the Christmas Market in berlin reopened today surrounded by new cement barricades. Nbcs Anne Thompson joining us live from berlin. What more do we know about this guy and how he seemed to slip through the cracks even though he was known on different continents . Reporter chris, we just got a few more clues from a press Conference Held by Angela Merkel and interior minister who said they found fingerprints from amri in the cab of the truck that plowed through the Christmas Market on monday night. That and other clues are why they are searching so desperately, not just across this country, but across this continent for this 24yearold tunisian man. From march of this year to september this year, he was under police surveillance. He had been identified by German Authorities as a potential threat. This summer, he was arrested under suspicion of having false documents. But he was released and as you said, he was supposed to be deported but that got caught up in a paperwork snafu and didnt have a passport. That was two days before the attacks. Thats why you can imagine this will give fuel to the controversy over the open door refugee policy and tried to tamp down the controversy appearing at the press conference i mentioned at the top of this report. She had gone to the Justice Department and the interior department to see just what was going on and she said to the german people she was proud of how calmly they have reacted to this situation. Chris . Let me ask you about the mood at the market today. I remember in the days after a similar truck attack happened in nice, the tofolks there said th almost came out as a sign of a message to the terrorists. Youre not going to change our way of life and it looks pretty busy there. Reporter it is very busy and chris, weve heard those exact same sentiments all day long. I was at the market earlier today and i ran into a british couple, a finnish couple, a tunisian woman who lives here in berlin and all of them said the the same thing. Look, life has to go on. You have to get out there. And the other thing was, especially for that tunisian woman who lives in berlin now, she said she always walks through the Christmas Market and she had made friends with the woman who runs a crepery here. For a lot of people, this has become vooextraordinarily perso. It happened at a special time of year and a tradition thats a centurys old here and means a lot to the people here and you can see behind me, it is very crowded and chris, if you look right behind he and see the red lights at the bottom of the screen, those are one of the many memorials that are all through this market. Memorials to the 12 people who died and the dozens who were injured, things and left candles and flowers and left jer hgerma flags and pray for berlin and hate will not rule. Anne thompson in the Christmas Market for us, thank you so much. Well, it turns out the berlin truck attack suspect was also, as we said on the radar of counterterrorism authorities here in the u. S. I want to bring in nbc news pete williams. What details do you have on that . No surprise here, chris. The german officials had told counterparts throughout the world about him and so he was in a u. S. Terrorism database but they, officials tell us thats large lly based on what the gern authorities found out and thousands of such people that authorities in europe had been keeping their eye on as this enormous influx of people goes to syria, joins up with isis, comes back. Movement of refugees. All of this. An enormous intelligence challenge for the European Countries to keep a handle on. The practical significance means if he had tried to come to the u. S. Or if he tries to come to the u. S. , presumably authorities here would be on to him and stop him but the derivative according to the folks weve talked to that originated in europe and passed on to authorities here. So its just an echo of the fact he was known to German Authorities, chris. Weve seen this before and i heard it when i covered the attacks in belgium and nice. Authorities always say to us, we have these folks on our radar, but you cant watch all of them 24 7. Weve heard that from a u. S. Official as well and what struck me was a line in the New York Times today and a fulltime watch on all of them, meaning all the people on the radar in this case of German Authorities would require up to 40 officers per individual impractical Security Officials say and i guess im trying to figure out, 40 people, why 40 people . You know, a number like that is the one american authorities here have been talking about over the last couple of years when they discussed the difficulty of keeping somebody under surveillance. It sort of depends what kind of surveillance youre going to do. If you dont mind the fact the person knowing theyre under surveillance and dont need as many people but if you have to do a covert surveillance sort of passing off their movements from one team to another, remember, this is 24 7 so youve got shifts of people coming and going. You have to have people in different places. It can be very manpower intensive. But i think this is a different, the question here is, they were already making efrforts to depot him and thats the difficult things theyll have to explain here. This was not just somebody that they wanted under surveillance. This is someone they were actively trying to get out of the country. That is the problem for Angela Merkel. Pete, thank you so much. You bet. For the First Time Since heading to his home in florida for the holidays, President Donald Trump is speaking about the attack in berlin. Whats going on is terrible. In fact, we have intelligence here right now. Whats going on is terrible. Has it caused you to rethink or reevaluate your plans about your muslim ban . Youve known my blplans all along. And theyve proven to be right. 100 . Whats happened is disgraceful. In palm beach, florida, is kristen welker. Weve talked in months about donald trump has not been answering questions, not held a press conference and finally have a few questions. What else did he have to say . Reporter chris, in addition to that sound bite that you just played, president elect donald trump was pressed on whether he sees the attacks overseas as an attack against christians. He said that this past monday when the attacks happened and not quite remember that was a part of his initial statement. Take a listen to that exchange. Your comments about the truck attack in berlin being against christians, do you think that this might. Say that, again what . The attack in berlin being against christians . Well, who said that . When did was that said . I believe you said it in a press release. So go ahead. So im wondering how this might affect relationships . Thats an attack on humanity, thats what it is. Its an attack on humanity. And its got to be stopped. Reporter the president elect clearly changing his tone a little bit on that point reaching a broader audience. Its not clear if he did that intentionally, chris, and i wouldnt think that that is an indication that he is going to abandon that talking point that he does think there is a war against christians and christianity. This is something weve heard him talk quite frequently about but as you pointed out at the top, he hasnt held a full press Conference Since july. Theres a lot of pressure on him to do so. He was supposed to hold on several days ago. That got postpostponed until january. His transition officials insist hes going to have one in january before the inauguration, and you can bet hes going to get pressed on all of this including the muslim ban and how exactly that policy is going to play out, chris. A lot of pentup questions without a doubt. Kristen welker, thank you. Socalled bathroom bill cost the state millions in lost jobs, special events and tourism. But for now, its staying on the books after a deal to repeal the bill collapsed. You can hear those chants of shame resound after it was called to repeal the bill and limits protections and best known for requiring transgender people to use the bathroom that corresponds with the sex on their birth certificate. It caused millions of cancellations and one reason that pat mccrory didnt win reelection and Republican Leaders broke their word. Im disappointed that republican legislative leaders failed to live up to their promise to fully repeal house bill 2. I know there were enough democratic and republican votes in the house and in the senate to fully repeal house bill 2 if they had just been given a chance. Nbcs Gabe Gutierrez from raleigh. It was chaotic. It went on for hours and hours and in the end, neither side was happy. What happened . Reporter hi there, chris. As you mentioned, this deal all set to go down yesterday. This special session began at 10 00 a. M. And fell apart. 9 hours of debate and much of it behind closed doors and democrats and republicans, theres a complete breakdown of trust, the Charlotte City Council Early in the morning and an emergency session that voted to repeal its entire nondiscrimination ordinance and republicans had said they thought the democrats were trying to pull a fast one by not repealing it earlier in the week so the trust broke down there and democrats, excuse me, the republicans propose a six month moratorium and any other city passing nondiscrimination ordinances, the democrats couldnt go along with that. So by 7 30 at night, the senate decided to vote down this repeal. The house just went home and we spoke with the local pastor who opposed this repeal of hb2. Lets listen why he said its Still Necessary to keep that bathroom bill. Because protection of women and children, the responsibility of government is to, one of the primary responsibilities is protection. And when you have men going into, lets forget the restrooms. Men going into a womans shower room where girls are disrobing, and a man is there. Thats totally inappropriate. And thats what this is protecting against, showers, locker rooms, men walking in there, and preying on little girls. Reporter of course, members of the Lgbt Community strongly disagree with that. They certainly dont like anyone from the Transgender Community being associated with supporters of bill referred to as sexual predators and simply discriminatory but many local republicans here and the pastor who strongly believed that they need to keep this bathroom bill. As you mentioned, chris, their opponents say this will cost the state of North Carolina millions of lost revenue. The ncaa has backed out of here and a civil rights lawsuit on hold. The General Assembly set to meet back here on january 11th. A new report from politico that said leaders were in touch with supporters trying to sway electors. Ill talk to former Clinton Campaign spokesperson finney. The pope taking on bureaucracy. His blasting resistance to reform inside the holy cee saying its inspired by the devil. Weighing in on trumps size and even Ronald Reagans mental health. Remember this in august when he talked about writing Trumps Health report during the campaign. He says the Clinton Organization was going to publish a letter onealth and i know her physician and some of her health history, not so good. So i said, why not . I would do that too. You totale. Nobodys hurt, but there will still be pain. It comes when your Insurance Company says theyll only pay threequarters of what it takes to replace it. What are you supposed to do . Drive threequarters of a car . Now if you had Liberty Mutual new car replacement™, youd get your whole car back. I guess they dont want you driving around on three wheels. Smart. With Liberty Mutual new car replacement™, well replace the full value of your car. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Pain from a headache can when make this. Old, feel like this. Allinone cold symptom relief from tylenol®, the 1 doctor recommended pain relief brand. Tylenol® everything your family touches sticks with them. Make sure the germs they bring home dont stick around. Use clorox disinfecting products. Because no one kills germs better than clorox. Chomping at the bit to repeal obamacare but a new twist. The health and Human Services say 6. 4 Million People signed up for coverage between november 1st and december 19th including 2 million new customers. More than 4 million renewing their coverage. So what happens to what is now a roughly 10 Million People enrolled in obamacare . In a matter of weeks, donald trump takes office, joining me now, nbc political analyst served as National Council to romney, as well as the rnc and former vermont governor howard dean who ran for president , served as dnc chair and a doctor. He practiced medicine back in vermont. Let me start with you because, howard, you wrote about this, about obamacare and the repeal. I think it was back around the summer and you talked about how this was going to be a disaster in the making. I think you said people would be in desperate survival mode. Do you think with, what i find to be an unexpected rise in people signing up given the threats for repeal, does it give the democrats more fodder or make republicans less likely to do a full out repeal . I think its a huge problem for everybody running in 2018. Here, theres a big report today quoting Donald Trumps doctor which you referenced. Donald trump has an Upper East Side physician in new york city. Hes talking about kicking 20 Million People off their Health Insurance including the 6 Million People who just signed up because theyre desperate. Obamacare is not perfect, but this idea theyre going to repeal it and then for 2 years, theyll fix it is insane because you know the Congress Never does anything on time. So what theyre doing is putting 20 Million People including a lot of trump voters health care at risk. I do think that the congress and paul ryan will think twice about doing this. And David Lee Hart said republicans could cause anger and frustration if they sick tio their plan. A dilemma with real life consequences for many people. Ill add, many are republicans. What do they do about it . Whats been clear, as howard said, there are weaknesses in the current law. Even if president has acknowledged that. Right. And the process of repealing and replacing will be making the improvements. Costs down, providing more choices and doctors and being sure that the exchanges dont collapse. There is also a difference between people signing up at this stage and actually paying the premiums and fully enrolling in the program. So the statistics today are telling and will have an effect on the debate but not determi determinative of the success of the markets. Do you think when people say repeal, they mean were going to revise it . That would never be hyperbole in the debate. Come on. More people for republicans in congress in the Trump Administration and its incumbent on them to be able to do that. What, in your mind, and i want to get on to mr. Bornstein, dr. Bornstein, howard, but what in your mind would be a reasonable change . What do you see with an obamacare from your unique perspective that democrats could and should get on board with . Okay. So the Insurance Companies wont like this, but the notion of getting rid of the individual mandate, i said when this was enacted, while this makes sense for an Insurance Company, its incredibly unpopular. And, you know, i dont think anybody will argue with getting rid of the individual mandate except for the insurance industry. Two, i do think we need a more competitive market. But insurance across state lines is insanity. Texas has 22 uninsured and Health Insurance in texas and i think youll get a lot of resistance among governors to that idea but there are reforms that could be made but what theyre talking about now are radical reforms that make no sense at all. We dont live in the world of the republicans in congress. They have health shurinsurance. Most dont. I see a smirk on bens face. Ill keep that attitude going with these new words of wisdom from president elect trumps doctor. Remember, hes the guy who wrote a letter saying that donald trump would be like the most healthy president that weve ever seen in a long time. He says, unfortunately, theres nothing seriously wrong with him, a few pounds overweight. And Ronald Reagan had presenile dementia. Did they share that with you or cover it up . Its almost hes saying hes healthy but i could be lying to you. Didnt nancy lie . Its probably time for some Media Training in the medical world. S. O. S. Kellyanne conway. Can she handle this . But seriously. First, never talk about your patients in that manner but then youve got the content of the words. I dont think donald trump himself would be appreciative of being called overweight. Having said that, theres another gem here i want to share with you, howard. He said he wasnt worried about being, about trump being an older president. The oldest president in his opinion, quote, if something happens to him, then it happens to him. Its like the rest of us, no . Thats why we have a Vice President and a speaker of the house and a whole line of people. They can just keep dying. I mean, factually, thats correct. They both function on stream of consciousness, and since i am a physician, im certainly not going to make any diagnoses of these guys, but good lord. I mean, my wife is also a physician and were look at this this morning, going, oh my god. Youre not supposed to talk like that if youre a physician, period. Let alone the physician of the president of the united states. When the two of you were in medical school, that isnt how you talked . No. I mean, not dr. Bornstein. I dont want anyone to be confused with the medical school. Went to medical school. Well. Ths a conversation for another da i appreciate the little bit of levity on what has been a very serious week, guys, happy holidays. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you very much. Calling it trumps casting call. Members of his cabinets to look a certain way, and how it might have kept one candidate from getting the job. I eweworli a odompa at, ta. D it fove o li otrpve l at, ta. S it t r se nfonan q dthri 0010doedph e ty. Ceyoh lcar fove o li wed ows 0, b c d ovurfo r ifn. The p tr e e eeplate,ewlinune well j nda carte d tiefxae,ewlinune ch Donald Trumps newly named incoming counselor Kellyanne Conway denies hes making cabinet picks based on appearances. He wants his administration to not only be able to do the job but look the part. Take, for instance, john bolton, the post claims, quote, several of trumps associates thought john boltons brushlike mustache was one that handicapped the bombastic former secretary of state and he was not going to like that mustache, said an associate. I cant think of anyone close to donald that has a beard that he likes. One of the writers of the story from the washington post. We can laugh about this and i think a lot of people did this morning, but is this real . We heard donald trump say it during the campaign, when he said Hillary Clinton didnt have a president ial look and wouldnt want someone without a president ial look, as he was unveiling his Vice President ial pick in july. He said that mike pence had a great economic record in indiana and that was the main reason he picked him other than the fact he looked so good. Donald trump has often talked about the appearance of his opponents and his allies. Behind the scenes, we are told he really wants someone who looks the part as well as is out there as an advocate and thats something people around him say both on and off the record. This morning, Kellyanne Conway was asked about your report on morning joe. Heres what she said about it. I think its not fair to say people are in and out based on how they look but who they are. Donald trump first and foremost, he looks like a strong leader who speaks his mind and has an amazing portfolio outside of politics and he is that. Not just look like that. So no. Look, you wouldnt be meeting with donald trump and over 100 men and women at this point, mika, dozens of people, only a fraction of whom will end up serving in your cabinet and senior roles if you were worried about, concerned about that. What did you think when you heard that, karen . The two are not mutually exclusive. He wants someone who can do the job but also someone who looks the part. For instance, with general mattis, his choice for defense secretary. He keeps drawing the comparison with George Patton. Well, if you take a look, general mattis sort of looks like George Patton and george c. Scott who played him in the movie. So again, it is not that, you know, he, his Associates Say he picks people who can do the job but also wants them to have the bearing, to have the appearance, to sort of conform of what the person who does the job looks like. It is fascinating. Great article and in the washington post. Happy holidays. You too. Tough clinton aides might push to change sides. More on that report. And ill talk more with karen finney a spokesperson of the campaign and whats next for Kellyanne Conway . Her new title and role in the administration coming up next. My business was built with passion. But i keep it growing by making every dollar count. Thats why i have the spark cash card from capital one. With it, i earn unlimited 2 cash back on all of my purchasing. And that unlimited 2 cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business. Which adds fuel to my bottom line. Whats in your wallet . Our mission at clover is to highest Quality Dairy products. Clover has relationships with 27 different family farms. The environment is who clover is. Without it, were nothing. Pg es been a great partner. Theyre the energy experts, were the milk guys. Pg e worked with clover on a number of Energy Efficiency projects to save energy every month. If youre part of the fabric of the community, youve got to ensure that you do things right, environment included. Learn how you can save at pge. Com save together, were building a better california. Push for electors switch their votes than we knew . Senior aides like Jake Sullivan and jen palmieri were in touch for weeks with organizers of the dump Trump Movement but not offer anyone involved in the effort any direct guidance. Joining me now, karen kfinney, former spokesperson of the hillary Clinton Campaign. Do you buy this report . I do that people who were Clinton Campaign supporters, electors would reach out to people in our campaign. But look, i think as the story points out, there was an effort to, you know, be walk a fine line frankly of being supportive because obviously, its important that the electors do what they believe is right in terms of their responsibility as electors which is why some thought it was important to get a National Security briefing given the information that came out about the russians but at the same time, i think it was part of the idea here that this is not necessarily, were not necessarily talking about changing the outcome of the election through the Electoral College. Is there realistically a push and pull for folks like you . Folks like Jake Sullivan . Because when you look at one of these exchanges with the elector from colorado, the elector from colorado apologizes what he called his urgent tone and Jake Sullivan replies, not at all. We all share a sense of urgency. This wanting to show something wasnt quite right and on the other hand, not wanting to perpetuate what a lot of people have suggested seems like sour grapes, that its time to move on. Sure. And look, i think chris, part of what i think this reflects, a couple of things that i think have implications going forward. Number one, as you know, its another chance to have this conversation about the Electoral College broadly which has been brought up given Hillary Clinton won 2. 8 million more in the popular vote and peoples sort of frustration that we have a system whereby you can have that kind of an unprecedented historic lead in the popular vote but still not win. I think it also reflects how closely divided our electorate and country is and i think it also just reflects this was a tough campaign and there were tough questions that arose throughout the campaign certainly when we talk about the influence of the russians and Vladimir Pugh ttin and hacking. A lot of tough issues on the table that people were grappling with but i think the most important thing that should come out of this is that the 2. 8 Million People who voted for Hillary Clinton, donald trump has to be president for them as well and acknowledge that, so the electors voted. Hes now, its settled. Hes the president elect, but dont forget that there are people out there who are americans who didnt vote for you and theyre still counting on you. What he suggested yesterday and curious to get your reaction to this and if youve talked to other folks in the Clinton Campaign about his tweet yesterday, hes suggested he could have won them over and in fact, he tweeted about it, essentially saying that i would have done even better in the election if that is possible if the winner was based on popular vote, but would campaign differently. He just would have switched his strategy and those 2. 8 Million People would have voted for him instead. Sure. You know, chris, let me just say it this way. Donald trump has said a lot on twitter over the past year and a half. Most of which is not actually been accurate or true and lot of which well never know if it was accurate or rtrue. He can say whatever he wants on twitter. I think the reality is that we are where we are. There are these 2. 8 Million People and when he takes office, he needs to remember those people or the 20th really but the 21st being the first day, he needs to remember there are people in the country who did not vote for him. And also, the people who voted frankly for third party candidates. Theyre americans. They still count on their president to represent their interests. Karen finney, thank you so much. Have a great holiday. You too, take care. Were back with our Daily Briefing on politics. A potential split between the Obama Administration and the Incoming Trump white house over israel. It delayed a major vote at the u. N. Senior Political Editor mark murray. What happened there . Reporter chris, this is about a u. N. Resolution to declare the israeli settlements as violating International Law and of course, this has been something that israel has not liked very much. But what ended up happening is that donald Trump Transition Office put out a statement saying president obama should veto this resolution. As my colleague, Andrea Mitchell, ended up reporting, the Obama Administration was actually thinking of abstaining on this, particularly because the Obama Administration policy is that the israeli settlements are a hindrance to forging middle east peace to israel and the palestinians and this is very extraordinary, chris. Having an Incoming Administration and incoming president elect telling a current sitting to take action particularly on a matter of Foreign Policy and when i look back at transcripts at this same time, the obama team was saying, we need to have one president at a time when it comes particularly to Foreign Policy. Like many other things, that is a tradition thats changed in this new reality. Let me ask you also about some other major news coming out of the trump campaign. Kellyanne conway turned around this campaign. I think the Third Campaign manager. She suggested to me at one point when i talked to her, and on morning joe, she told people over the months that her intention was to go back to private life, not going to happen, right . Its not going to happen. Shes going to be white house counselor, being in the west wing and chris, what i think is fascinating here is that this is the same really advisors that nald trump had in the waning months of the president ial election talking about Kellyanne Conway and steve bannon, his chief political advisor in the white house and Reince Priebus as the white house chief of staff. Those three individuals, really the big movers and shakers on the campaign often with some competing voices and youre going to have the same dynamic in the donald trump white house. Fascinating. Thank you, mark murray. Appreciate it. Thanks, chris. Pope francis taking aim at Church Hierarchy resisting reform. What he had to say in his christmas address up next. Music playing everything your family touches sticks with them. Make sure the germs they bring home dont stick around. Use clorox disinfecting products. Because no one kills germs better than clorox. As after a dvt blood clot,ital i sure had a lot to think about. What about the people i care about . Including this little girl. And what if this happened again . I was given warfarin in the hospital, but wondered, was this the best treatment for me . So i asked my doctor. And he recommended eliquis. Eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots and reduces the risk of them happening again. Yes, eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. Eliquis also had significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Both made me turn around my thinking. Dont stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. If you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Eliquis treats dvt and pe blood clots. Plus had less major bleeding. Both made eliquis the right treatment for me. Ask your doctor if switching to eliquis is right for you. For people out who are kids or adults that feel like they cant do something, and look at everything youve been through, whats your advice for us when were ready to give up . You have to think of everything ive been through and i didnt give up on it. So why should you give up on what you want to accomplish . Unbelievable. That segment i thought was one of the great segments we did all year. Zion harvey. Weve gotten to know him pretty well over the last year and a half since the double hand transplant. As rehema ellis said hes still setting an example for all of us. For 9yearold zoion harvey, he got christmas came early this year. He got a puppy. This is like a fairytale. Im the Richest Woman in the world now. Reporter zoion continues hi progress, the first child to have a double hand transplant. He lost them and both legs after an infection when he was a toddler. All the grueling therapy has paid off. The nerves from zion grown into the transplanted part and even the fine muscles responsible for fine motor movements now functioning. Im learning how to do this. Which is to pinch like that . Yep. Thats great, zion. And theres Something Else. I can even hear it. What happened in your life . My voice changed. Reporter former president bill clinton sent him a letter. Whats it say . Your mom is a warrior. Hold on to her. Reporter patty has given zion her all including one of her kidneys, even before his hand transplant. Did you ever think twice . Never. If he needed the other one, he could have it. Reporter writing about what theyve endured. People with prosthetics and disabilities have kind of a relationship because we all have a story behind it. Reporter patty has a message for the season. This is the best Christmas Gift that you could ever give a person. Become an organ donor. Reporter its a gift of life and now zion has the whole world in his hands. Rehema ellis, nbc news, baltimore. How can you not love that kid . Amazing. Days ahead of christmas, pope francis slamming those in the vatican bureaucracy who would resist reform. Two insiders next. World ugly and messy. They are the natural born enemy of the way things are. Yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. But under the proper care, they become something beautiful. Everything your family touches sticks with them. Make sure the germs they bring home dont stick around. Use clorox disinfecting products. Because no one kills germs better than clorox. Oh, thats lovely. So graceful. The corkscrew spin, flawless. His signature move, the flying dutchman. Poetry in motion. And there it is, the baby bird. Breathtaking. A sumo wrestler figure skating . Surprising. Whats not surprising . How much money heather saved by switching to geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. So youre looking at pope francis. He walked into a roomful of cardinals and then blasted the vatican bureaucracy denouncing the, quote, malevolent resistance hes encountering in reforming there. The deviling fires nasty intentions often dressed as lambs. That stern message as part of the pontiffs usual christmas greeting. Its the third year in a row that hes used the greeting to admonish those who make up the curiae. Joining me from rome, shes written extensively about the vatican and host of the busted halo show on the catholic channel. So liz, heallet me start with y. This is not a pope who pulls punches, so okay. But hes said there has been hidden and malicious resistance that sprouts in distorted minds. What did you make of it . And where is the resistance coming from, to what . Well, the pope was, to begin with, it comes after a dual part of this curiel message. He begins on a subject as you said in 2014, 2015 and now 2016, he defined three types of resistance. First one is a very open resistance a good will type of asking, i dont understand why were doing this. Then you have a second one where you dont really say anything but in your heart youre just not with the program. Then the third was the malicious resistance. All day long weve been listening in rome people trying to interpret who is the malicious resistance intended towards. Well, who is it . The people who are being defined as malicious its just such a everybody is talking about it here in rome. Were all excited. But who is it . Who is he talking about . I know everyone has their theories. So what everybody immediately gravitated to is four cardinals who earlier this year wrote privately to the pope expressing what are called dubia. These are questions they have about the popes encyclical, his teaching. Four cardinals asked yes or no questions that werent answered. After three months they published them publicly, now in the kind of catholic world theres been a lot of blogging back and forth about these four cardinals. Immediately the assumption was that the malicious intent was intended towards these four cardinals, but the interesting question is what if these cardinals think of themselves theyre in the first category and theyre being into the third or fourth category . I mean, who is going to judge here, right . Whatever it is, can we just say, father, that the message from the pope couldnt be clearer to them, the way i read it, is dont mess with me. He framed it in, first of all, beautiful christmas, as liz said, pastoral language. He began with the christ child. This is the ultimate image of god and humility and we in this Christmas Season must imitate that. And id like to take this opportunity to address you all and talk about the way weve been doing reform. And he included in there that essentially your job, gentlemen, ladies, laypeople as well, your job is to support me in my Supreme Authority as the vicar of christ, the successor to st. Peter. And this is the program were laying out. So as liz said, yes, you can certainly question that because to be conservative is to maintain the importance of doctrine and dogma, but to just hang on to the way weve always done it, hes like, no. This is the kind of vatican intrigue that people like tuque about, that certain books were written about, whether people are catholic or not, it does have that feeling about it. But what happens now . Hes the boss. He is. Hes laid out a program that is fairly specific. And he gave nine points and this is the way in which we are reforming the curiae. Hes reminding people, particularly the cardinals in the room, you elected me, to borrow a phrase from our own political phrase, to drain the swamp. When we were discussing as cardinals electing the next pope we talked about there is need of reform, whether were talking about corruption or getting used to and comfortable about the way we have done things. You elected me to do this, so now lets do it. Recently i was in rome and spoke to someone involved in these reforms and we do talk about all the back and forth. When i said to her, after we had a conversation about the back and forth and the disagreements, but is it going to get done . Not even a hesitation, not even missing a beat, yes, of course. There will be the back and forth and might be this public spats but ultimately this pope will get dob tne the reforms that he wants to get done . I want to make just two points on that one. One, the letter sounds autocratic. He uses a lot of the obedience language and hes the kind of guy who gets things done. The end of that message, its the things that have been done especially in the economic reform. But Something Else to remember, pope francis is navigating the church into 2017. Its the 500 anniversary of the protestant reformation when the last time there was an internal dispute the church split. So hes also got very forcefully on his mind that this resistance has to be kept together because weve already seen what happened 500 years ago. But at the end of the day we are in the vatican one big happy dysfunctional family, we come together at the holidays, we fight, we spat, we all go to mass together and eat and eat and eat. To all the dysfunctional and i include myself among them merry christmas. Thank you, his, thank you father dwyer. Thanks for watching this hour of msnbc live. Im chris jansing. Ill be back here. But right now Andrea Mitchell reports. Hello chris jansing. Right now on Andrea Mitchell reports, collision course. Donald trump locks arms with israel Prime Minister netanyahu on expanding jewish settlements into palestinian territory. In a major split with the Obama Administration and decades of american Foreign Policy. A showdown vote at

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