The idea that the executive branch can simply ignore the other two branchs of government. She said the primary take away of the last 250 years of American History is that president s are not kings. Mcgann testify may be repealed. Will other aids like john bolton see it as covered. Lets go to hans nichols. What is their real case for appeal . Their case for appeal is they think that there is an obama appointed judge. They think this is an unfair ruling and precedent is on their side. The president is knot going to necessarily testify or provide answers. He hinted about that last week saying he was considering it after pelosi made that offer. S she is saying now that it is an ill legitimate impeachment process, and then on the question of whether or not it will leave the house, the white house is zeroing in on any democrat that suggested that they wont be voting for articles of impeachment. They seem to be suggesting, and i think this is the narrative they want out there that it might not leave the house. They say theyre preparing both eventually eventualities. The white house is on lock down. We cant leave here. They have not provided any information, Pete Williams is reporting there has been an air space violation. Well see if pete comes on air here. It is a breaking situation. This has happened in the past, i believe in 2003, the capital was evacuated. I was on the capital that day and i had today flea out. Fighter jets have been sent. That sch november small thing. Thank you, hans, well check back with you in a moment. Lets talk about what it all means, cynthia oxney. And even mcmullen, a former cia operative, independent president ial candidate. Cynthia, youre my house lawyer, what is your reaction to the ruling and what do you think about this appeal . It is not like this was tough. But the federal court did not really have juris dix to decide it. They had a battle. They used words like baseless and it is very dead tailed, but it is basically predictable. It deals with you have to show up, you have to come to the house of representatives and raise your right hand and then all bets are off. Even if the white house didnt appeal this ruling, the next set of roadblocks coming are all of the executive privilege roadblocks. Think back to the days when hope hicks testified. They used executive privilege on all types of things that were base less as well. So we are a long way, if they want to use this as an excuse, like oh, i have to do it, they can but they have to do that anyway. They just blamed the judge and an obama appointee, do you think it impacts republicans at all. They have a responsibility to weigh in here to make sure that they dont turn into a king. I would love to tell you it would impact them, but i dont think will. They have prove nn congress they they just dont care about the facts, they dont care about the separation of powers, theyre n uninterested in their beauty and a check of the United States, and congress is providing a check on the abuses of power at the level of the president , abuses of power against the american people, and she says what could be more important than ensuring that could happen and what could wound that process more than preventing the president s top advisors from being able to come and testify for congress. Her opinion matters a lot. Im just not so sure that it matters for trumps allies in the Republican Party. It is important, but it is not going to matter. It has been seven months, lots of people cant remember why it was, and now the Justice Department is going to appeal it. Lets not forget at this point House Democrats have more than enough evidence to impeachment president and i think that is in large measure because of the way that adam schiff trufrs these hearings. Whether or not it is no quid pro quo, all of those have been shredded to pieces. And what is left with is that he did not fish committing the crime, but i think they certainly made a legal case, but the question is did they make the case in the court of public opinion. The testimony from people like john bolton or mick mulvaney. If any of these witnesses could exonerate the president , he sure as heck would have them out there testifying, lets not forget he put out the transcript of the july 25th call because he thought that would help him out. He knows full well that it would corroborate what the other witnesses said. What will this do to john bolton. He will do whatever he wants, it is a way to go either way. So in some way, it makes it easier for him to be pressures to testify, but i think he will do whatever he was going to do anyway. There is a big difference between executive privilege and the kind of blanket immunity that the white house is pushing for, right . Yes, but it is my understanding that there is not a legal precedent. There has been a Court Decision on this finish in the past, and they sided with judge jackson, judge jackson sided that ruling in her opinion, it just doesnt hold water, and the executive privilege argument, i think, im not a lawyer, but i think that is a difficult one, too, because mcgann already provided his story tole mueller investigation. I keep going back to the simple need that congress is our representatives, our most direct representatives in washington, the people, and they have to be able to conduct oversight over the executive branch which could use their power to do harm over the american people. And once again obstructing investigations into that pursuit of illegal foreign help and there could not be a more direct threat. And they have to be able to check that and conduct overiegt over that. And that is a problem for freedom in america. Thank you all so much. A busy and important story to cover. Next, some of the more progressive candidate vs. Plans candidates have plans to wipe out debt. And we have sharp words for, you guessed it, President Trump. And breaks news from washington, the white house is on lock county after an air space violation. Well bring you the latest, ahead. Well bring you the latest, ahead. Unpredictable crohns symptoms following you . For adults with moderately to severely active crohns disease, stelara® works differently. Studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. Stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. Some serious infections require hospitalization. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or flulike symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. Alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. These may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. Some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. Talk to your doctor today, and learn how janssen can help you explore cost support options. Remission can start with stelara®. Could you email me the part great about geicon, tim. Making it easy to switch and save hundreds . Oh yeah, sure. Um. You dont know my name, do you . laughs nervously of course i know your name. I just get you mixed up with the other guy. Whats his name . Whats your name . Switch to geico®. You could save 15 or more on car insurance. Could you just tell me . I want this to be over. Welcome back we have breaking nutsz. H news. What is going on. The white house is no longer on lock down. They lifted it about three minutes now, the doors are now open, and it appears were back to normal. And the intervening 15 minutes we had statements for the air defenses for all of north america, and they say aircraft have been taxed. That means they were scrambled and they sent up fighter jets. Well see what sort of details there are about the air space violation. I can tell you here at the white house that the lock down is over. At the past, i believe in 2003, when the capital was evacuated and there was an air space violation violation, the governor of kentucky was flying in, didnt turn on his transponder, and he was just flying in. And fighters have been scrambled. They have been tasked. And well see to what exdent we have updates, but the white house no longer on lock down. Thank you, mauoving on, convicted navy seal Eddie Gallagher, the president saying he will always protect our great war fighters, but spencer had harsh words while speaking to vbs last night. I dont think he understands the definition. They have standards they hold themselves to. Joining me now is chris hill, he held posts all over the world, and former supreme commander, he wrote about this, i must go to you, first in your latest piece you argue that President Trump should trust the seals. And President Trump has reached in and over ridden the military justice. System. Only those that have been in combat can understand the combat that someone like Eddie Gallagher has gone through. We have to respect that. Secretary spencer said to be professionals. We train them not to be killing machines, but thinking machines. They can be lethal when they must, but understand the rules and standards as professionals throughout their operations. Two former Navy Secretaries under president bush and president clinton are out with an oped and they say the president s values are not that of our military. That says something. I was chief of staff to richard danzig. I know this office, i know the importance of it and they are correct in their assessment. And what will happen here is that young rank and file seals will see this and wonder gosh, if i see something wrong should i bring it forward or not. That would have very corrosive overtime. Explain this, Eddie Gallagher said the military stands with the president , if you look at polling, the president does have a lot of support from the military, how do you square that with two people as senior as they are, and you, speaking against the president s values. In terms of why he enjoys port, a lot of his policy positions are ones attractive to those in the military starting with a big defense budget. I would not overstate that, and that broad question of whether or not he is liked or not is important to him politically. That is not what were talking about here. Were talking about whether or not we ought to pardon those convicted of war criminal behavior. All of these cases were brought forward not by police, but their fellow seals and fellow green berets. This is a peer process and that is where it should rest. They want three convicted or accused war criminals to come pain for them in 2020. T is appalling, the United States lead the effort to make it clear that we will not be indifferent about war criminals. We have had the high road that is the best in the world, and now we have a president that has poe lit sized this, and including the courts, and the military, and this is horrific to our statute as the worlds greatest democracy, this president understands nothing, and i think it is time for some of his supporters to whether it is lindsey gram or others, there is no lawlessness. The New York Times reporting that the u. S. Has resumed large scale operations. This is something, not the kind of war where you win it one day. And im not one of those that believes we should be in forever wars, but the notion that we can abandon allies in the field is a misunderstanding. Im not at all surprised that were doing this, but if were going to be successful, we need to continue that relationship with the kurds who are the primary and lets look at the scale here. In these forever wars, we had 150,000 troops, we had 175,000 troops in iraq. This is not that. We have withdrawn 95 of the troops. This is 2,000 troops in syria. 2,000 troops in iraq. A handful of troops scattered around the region, 10,000 troops in afghanistan. It is a relatively small investment that will pay big dividen dividends, big doors swing on small hinges. This is a very, very sensible deployment and you understand leverage, right . This is leverage in a military context. It makes sense, and im glad that were back in. Youre speaking my language. Thank you both so much. Moving on, House Democrats are going to have to wait longer to potentially access President Trumps financial records. The Supreme Court blocked a subpoena directing the president s Accounting Firm to release seven years of documents. They have not made a decision, but theyre giving the lawyers unless december 5th. However, if the justice is declined, the lower courts ruling to release the documents will stand. All eyes on december 5th. L eyesh we made usaa insurance for members like martin. An air force veteran made of doing whats right, not whats easy. So when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. Thats how you do it right. Usaa insurance is made just the way martins family needs it with hasslefree claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. Because doing right by our members, thats whats right. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Usaa make familysized meals fast, and because its a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. The ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. This morning as the newest moderate in the 2020 race, there could be good news for the more progressive contenders, forgiving student debt would boost the u. S. Economy and it could had more than 100 billion a year to gdp over the next ten years, but it could come at a huge cost. Here to discuss, Brett Stevens, oped columnist. And chris lu back with me. How does erasing student debt create a bump in the economy. All of these people will have a lot more money, but think about what it costs. Right, well you can think about it like a tax cut almost. The people will be paying debt service, paying back loans, average cost is 400 a month for the people that are paying Student Loans nap is money they no longer have to spend on that they could spend on Something Else and that depends ultimately on how the income bracket theyre in, but that is a savings lets just forget all of my debts, if youre free of all of it, guess what im cash rich and out there spending. That would create a lot of problems for the economy and the lending, but this policy perspective is focused on student debt in particular. I think there is an issue. They engaged in a contract about what was entailed, and all of a sudden someone getting a fantastic wind fall, but no real limiting they operate where they are, and if it is simply a boost to the economy, youre injecting money into the economy, and you start to forgive mortgages and default, and people will simply stop lending because they will have no confidence that the money wont that it will be repaid because government could intervene to forget it. The answer, there is a lot of voters. What drives you nuts . You have the Student Loans, thats your big check every month, we spend 1200 a month on our Student Loans sdplp. If you can give banks money, why not for my niece, who is trying to go to the university of chicago. As the young person in the room, student debt for me is right now, i have 9 interest on my first, 8 on my send, im paying 80 a month in interest, im working two jobs to afford that. Theyre saying if you bailout a bank, why not bailout me. Look, i served as the deputy secretary of labor and we have an under employment problem here in the United States. Theyre not earning the kind of salaries they need to match the College Educations or the hours they need as well. Theyre facing crushing Student Loan Debt, and this is why this issue is resonating, it is what democrats are talking about. We can have a broader issue about how broad it can be. There are certain times of issues of them own. The same way that preschool education and other things like that are an issue as well and that is what Democratic Candidates and democratic voters are thinking about and it is a stark cob trantrast to what the administration is doing. We have an education secretary that is the loan forgiveness program. This is an education secretary who held in contempt of court for failing to administer a program for students that were defrauded by nonprofit colleges if is important political issue as well. Arent we attacking this the wrong way. We have a real problem in terms of the amount of money we devote to College Educations. Why do educations have to take four years, one of the reasons we had so much inflation is precisely because it is such a subsidizes market. But it seems to me not really thinking about the real issue of what the actual value of a College Education has. Does this disincentivize people to pay back their Student Loans. If i knew this was being talked about and i had debt, i would probably stop paying, doesnt it throw the whole system out of whack . People are paying attention to what could happen, right . What we have seen in the last few years is higher delin quiqu rates. And why were not talking about credit card or auto loans nap is because Student Loan Debt increased five fold in the course of 15 years. Is it the new sub prime . Absolutely not, a different situation, but 45 million households have Student Loan Debt. The average debt coming out is about 28,000. That is a lot of money and that delays your decision on making choices like starting a family, buying a house, and how you use a credit card. Coming up, jest ahead of the busy thanksgiving rush, why is it so hard to get from here to there . A look at what the Trump Administration has and has not done about transportation. Were asking the big question, are you better off . Question, are you better off deep clean messes like this, this, and even this. But i dont have to clean this, because the selfcleaning brush roll removes hair while i clean. [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. Wayfairs biggest black fridis now on. Ever yes score unbelievable savings. Like living room up to 70 off. Storage solutions from 9. 99. And area rugs up to 80 off. Plus, tons of limitedtime mystery flash deals. And Free Shipping on everything when you shop from thanksgiving through cyber monday. And were just getting warmed up. 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Theres therabreath at walmart. Are you better off than you were four years ago. That was the question for Ronald Reagan and it could decide next years, too. On the busiest travel day of the year we thought it would be the perfect time to examine what has been done at the department of transportation. We reached out about their recent initiatives. While they did not agree to come on for an interview, they highlighted four key areas where they believe they had success since trump took officer. They highlighted that for the second year in a row road fatalities have fallen. Second infrastructure they claim they increased investments in the past three years raising them to record levels. Third, preparing for the future by releasing new permits for projects. Jeff, department pointed to these four areas, what do you say . The improvements in safety had been decreasing instesteadid then they spiked in the Obama Administration and then cam doin, but that is like credited a president with the performance of the economy, there is a lot of factors involved. People had their phones in front of their face, so they are down and we had about a ten year run now without any significant air fatalities. They say it was focusing a lot of spending on rule areas. Is it having an impact . This administration is really reversing what they perceived in the Obama Administration. There is really only one program where they pick his or her projects and the Obama Administration gave about 30 to rural areas. The Trump Administration went higher, and then they said do a 50 50 split for 2019. Rural areas are more highway dependent, mass transit is more for high population density areas. The percentage of these projects that went from highways went down to about 70 under trump. What would you say two thirds of the budget was set in stone because of a law signs by barack obama. It was set up for five years in advance. That law will expire next year and that is the key where we will see if the Trump Administration comes in for a real plan to reauthorize this fund. And they can kind of kick the can down the road. We should get a prehen sieve proposal for them in the first week of february. Were hopeful to see substantive proposals on how to do the next five or six years. I want to bring in tom, and i want to point out we also invited republican members of the committee that declined to join, how do you rate it . Very, very poor. We have half of our nations highways in poor or mediocre condition. The average american spends or wastes 1,000 a year for maintenance and fuel costs for being stuck in increasingly bad traffic. Remember President Trump ran in 2016 on doing a big massive infrastructure bill. One of the bigamist t mysteries. Instead of going for a wall, a muslim ban, a Corporate Tax cut, why didnt he work on infrastructure . We would have worked with him. The result has been nearly no problem on the infrastructure needs, in new jersey. It is a gateway tunnel project that has been languishing for three years buzz the Trump Administration has refused to fund it. My constituents are not happen. Folks across the country are not seeing progress, and it is a must ri why President Trump campaigned on this and then refused to do anything about it. Jeff, i dont want you to get political, but what do you make of what he is saying . It is now a suspiciously long time. It was built by for profit freight railroads. There is a real case for rebuilding that tunnel than there is was most other projects nationwide. They own it indirectly through amtrak. While i concern the Garden State Park way the highway to heavy, nurngz is ranked 38th when it comes to transportation. Things are getting a little better. We have actually, in the congress, basically through just our House Democratic majority made sure that there is funding in the budget for the hudson river tunnel and other critical rail and Highway Infrastructure projects in new jersey. But oddly the department of transportation is sitting every year on hundreds of millions of dollars in unspent funding for these big Capital Investment projects. The Environmental Impact reviews are actually taking longer in this Republican Administration than they did in the past, but they promised to cut red tape and regulations. So congress is doing its part, the state of new jersey is doing its part, the roadblocks right now are in the administration in the department of transportation. Were going to pass a bill next year to breakthrough those roadblocks if were not able to get the cooperation we need. Im not sure if it was intended, but that was quite a pun. Were going to leave it there and now were going to turn to one of the biggest questions coming from critics of President Trump asking why republicans and particularly evangelical christians seem to go to extremes to talk up his presidency and his accomplishments. We see it very clearly now when rick perry said trumps election is part of gods plan. God has used imperfect people all through history. King david went perfect, saul wasnt person. You said you were the chosen one, and i said, you were. Joining me now, eddie glaud and Brett Stevens a the Steven Miller branch of the Republican Party, the strongest loyalists believe they cant win democratically any more. They are only able and interested in winning and they just decided they cant win with democracy any more and theyre supporting an antidemocratic and antifreedom. There could be nothing more immoral in my few than that and they have to find a way to horriblely justify that. And it suggests that, you know, human beings have no free will and that all that happens is a decision is made by god. When things happen that are not good, that are immoral, that is gods doing as well and we have no responsibility for that. Theyre clearing themselves of the deeply immoral decision. And this is the way theyre doing it. It is nonsense, but it should make sense. This is dangerous in so far as when you try to yolk politics to god talk, youre trying to sacralize politics. Youre trying to insulate that from criticism because youre taking it out of human doing and youre saying that god sanctioned what youre doing. Whether or not youre donald trump or Martin Luther king junior. So that is the first thing. The second something that it is not unusual. There is something, im a scholar of religion, and it is something in christianity where it was yolked to con stan testa. You can talk about white evangelicals, and support him, but think is not unusual when we see certain religion communities sitting cozy with power, vying to walk the corridors of power and compromise their basic fundamental commitments. It is not unusual, but it is dangerous. Rick perry said this about other elected officials, he said th theyre guided by a divine plan. He said more and more republicans are falling into line that the president is the chosen one. Im so glad for moments like this that im not a christian because the whole theology is alien to me and you can just imagine what kind of politics have been justified this way. Some of the people among the very worst. But look, the question youre ag is that we had a Republican Party that in the 1990s was busy denouncing bill clinton and his scandals in the language of the death of outrage and invoking christianity or at least invoking moral virtues as a way of scolding their political opponents. And it just is interesting to observe the speed with which the people who used to speak with the necessity of outrage and moral standards and moral character in government have suddenly discovered a new theology which justifies not only donald trump, but could virtually justify anyone in office. Eddie, Franklin Graham, the son of billy graham, said last week that the impeachment fight is a spiritual battle. Yeah, to hear Franklin Graham or paula white is to in some ways hear the voices of a particular segment of white christianity that i think has fl flatlined. Its not growing in terms of its demographics. You look at the arguments within Liberty University itself. We see these folks desperately clinging to donald trump because i think the writing is on the wall for even young evangelicals. We saw those debates at liberty itself. So part of what we have to kind of wrap our mind around, stephanie, is this white christianity has always been in some ways, the adjective overturning the noun. The church right next to the slave auction block. Preachers, ministers leading mobs to destroy communities in wilmington and tulsa. Theres a way in which people have reconciled the gospel with evil, to justify their practices with the gospel. What were seeing from the mouths of folks like Franklin Graham and paula white and others is the use of the gospel to justify their wanton and craven desire to walk the corridors of power. And what we need in response are progressive christians, people in that tradition, to describe them for what they are, hypocrites. Evan . Look, ill just say that i am a christian and im proud to be a christian and grateful to be a christian. But one thing that its important to understand for all of those who support trump, either fully or somewhat, that in christianity a key tenet of that is that we all have free will, that we are em powered to make choices for ourselves and choose between good and evil and we bare responsibility for those choices. And to suggest that we no longer have that free will or responsibility is deeply immoral and is not christian. And i think its important, and i hope that those who are supporting trump will reconsider that, because i think it is both harmful to the Republican Party, its harmful to christianity, and frankly, its harmful to the souls of those who follow that perversion. So last night there was a judge who said we need to recognize the constitution and the three equal branches of government because president s arent kings, and weve got republicans calling the president the chosen one, when last time i checked christians didnt worship false idols. You make the essential point. Christian or not, im jewish, but we live in a country thats governed by the rule of law, a constitution that does not mention christianity. A place where whatever you choose to worship or not choose to woreshship, we are held to standards and thats what needs to govern here against a president leaving aside his morality. The question is what has he done to violate his oath of office and in my view hes violated it. Thank you all so much. Definitely made us better and smarter in the last few minutes. Coming up, 2020 president ial candidate Kamala Harris will be joining Andrea Mitchell live, weighing in on everything from the impeachment inquiry to her strategy to increase her poll position among the crowded field of president ial contenders. That is today at noon right here on msnbc. You do not want to miss it. 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The bath fills and drains quickly, while the heated seat soothes your back, neck and shoulders. Kohler is an expert in bathing, so you can count on a deep soaking experience. Are you seeing this . The kohler walkin bath comes with fully adjustable hydrotherapy jets and our exclusive bubblemassage. Everything is installed in as little as a day by a kohlercertified installer. And its made by kohler americas leading plumbing brand. We need this bath. Yes. Yes you do. A kohler walkin bath provides independence with peace of mind. Call. For a free kohler® nightlight toilet seat with inhome quote or visit kohlerwalkinbath. Com for more info. That wraps up this hour, i am stephanie ruhl. Coming up, more news with my dear friend. I dont know how im going to surpass the conversations you had today. Drop the mic. Thank you, stephanie. Hello, everyone. Were following a couple of major developments in the impeachment inquiry. After more than 150 hours of open and closed door testimony, the final report is in the works and it could be in the hands of the Judiciary Committee as soon as next week. That committee will then hold its own hearings and potentially a vote on articles of impeachment. Also new this morning, the Justice Department filing an appeal after the white house has dealt a big setback, a blistering Court Ruling Says former council dan mcgahn must testify before congress, a decision that could pave the way for other key officials to testify as well. In rejecting the administrations absolute immunity argument, the judge wrote president s are not kings. This means that they do not have subjects, bound by loyalty or blood, whose destiny they are entitled to control. Rather, in this land of liberty, it is undisputable that current and former employees of the white house work for the people of the United States. Our nbc news team is here with reaction from capitol hill and the white house. Well also be talking with the lawmaker who sits on one of those key committees, preparing the point impeachment report. Garrett haake is on capitol hill, hans nichols is at the white house, Pete Williams has more on what is next. Lets start on the hill because its the next big phrase of the impeachment inquiry. Where do we go from here . Reporter the best way to think of this is that the fact finding stage i