Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle 20191009

Figure out exactly how theyre going to respond. After the u. S. Ambassador to the eu, gordon sondland, was blocked from speaking to investigators tuesday, the house issued a subpoena, one of many, but there is no indication that thats going to change anything. Last night, Speaker Pelosi released an official statement saying this the white house should be warned that continued efforts to hide the truth of the president s abuse of power from the American People will be regarded as further evidence of obstruction. Mr. President , you are not above the law. You will be held accountable. Heres my question how . Im going to bring in a great team, starting with Kristen Welker at the white house and Garrett Haake on the hill. Garrett, lets go to you first. The ball is clearly in the democrats court. What are they going to do . Reporter well, their investigative efforts will continue, although they appear to be quite frustrated. For example, we dont know yet if marie ivanovic, the former ambassador to ukraine will show up for her scheduled deposition on friday. Shes still a state department employee, technically, so it appears likely that she will not. There are some other outstanding subpoenas that are perhaps more likely to be responded to, including the one to the department of defense. Theyre a little bit more independent, for example, over there than in other parts of the administration. But the reality for the democrats here is they now have to do essentially two things they have to take all these acts, which they consider to be obstructive to their investigation, and start making the public case that thats potentially another article of impeachment, the idea that by refusing to cooperate with congress, the president is committing some other further impeachable act. And the second is, as they pursue this investigation, theyre going to have to do it assuming they will get no help from the white house. That means relying, perhaps, more heavily on some of the information that we already have and relying more heavily on the testimony of the whistleblower and those who might corroborate his or her testimony, if they can secure it. Those negotiations still continue, very much in the interests of the democrats running this investigation to get that whistleblowers testimony somehow while still protecting their identity. Its a tricky needle to thread, but thats the goal. All right, lets stick with tricky, kristen. Tell us about these new details about a call that started this, new allegations about the whistleblower. Reporter new allegations about the whistleblower, new revelations in the memo written by the whistleblower, steph. First, those new revelations. Were learning that according to the memo, one white house official in the moments after the president made that call to the president of ukraine on july 25th found the call to be frightening and scary. So, it sort of underscores the fact that there were some real concerns from the getgo. Now to the new revelations about the whistleblower. The Intelligence Community and Inspector General had initially said that the person had some concerns that there may have been some political bias. Apparently, the person was a registered democrat, and also may have had what are described as some links, a professional relationship with one of the Democratic Candidates. However, this is also important to point out, steph. The Inspector General said such evidence did not change my determination that the complaint relating to the urgent concern appears credible. Now, of course, we know that the notes of that july 25th call, once released, did back up the whistleblowers account. President trump, though, lashing out yet again this morning on twitter, saying this, steph the socalled whistleblower, before knowing i was going to release the exact transcript, stated that my call with the ukrainian president was crazy, frightening, and completely lacking in substance related to National Security. This is a very big lie. Read the transcript in a second tweet, the president saying, now they must apologize to me and stop this ridiculous impeachment. So, President Trump yet again calling for the impeachment inquiry, in essence, to come to an end against the backdrop of this escalating standoff between the white house and capitol hill, steph. All right. Thank you both. That is whats happening. Now lets find out what it all means. Ive the got perfect group. Phil rucker, pulitzer prizewinner, White House Bureau chief and Washington Post, barbara mcquade, former u. S. Attorney and professor at the university of michigan law school, and donna edwards, former democratic congresswoman from maryland, as well as contributing columnist to the Washington Post. And lets know, donna called for the president to be impeached nearly eight months ago. Felipe, here we see a twopart strategy dont give an inch and attack everybody involved. And all of this comes just one week after the president said this will you cooperate with those subpoenas . Well, i always cooperate. This is a fraudulent crime on the American People, but well Work Together with shifty schifft and pelosi and all of them, and well see what happens. Whats changed . Well, steph, the president and the white house have effectively declared war against this impeachment inquiry, against the house democrats, and theyre fighting it entirely, almost entirely, on process matters. So theyre not arguing we dont hear them arguing, anymore, at least, that there was really, you know, litigating the conduct of what the president did on that call with ukraine. Of course, the president maintains that that was a perfect call, but theyre focused on the process, theyre focused on the whistleblower, theyre focused on the things that chairman adam schiff has done. Theyre focused on the way in which the democrats have gone about beginning this impeachment inquiry without that vote on the floor. Pelosi sort of used her own authority as the speaker of the house to initiate this inquiry, and theyre trying to undermine it, it seems, in the minds of the American People, even as polling shows the American People are more and more supportive of this impeachment inquiry. Barbara, does the process argument work . The white house says this whole process is unconstitutional because it violates the president s right to due process. No, its absurd. And in fact, i find it incredibly cynical that a lawyer would write that and try to fool the American People into believing its the case. When you use words like due process, i think americans are familiar enough just with the concept from popular media and what they learned in High School Civics class to say, yeah that sounds pretty bad, doesnt it . But when you look at what hes arguing about, he says the president s entitled to due witness by calling witnesses and cross examining witnesses, yes, thats true, but that occurs at trial. And that would occur if the president were impeached and proceeded to trial before the senate. At this point, they are just at the inquiry stage. This is the investigative stage. This is akin to a prosecutor calling witnesses before a grand jury. Theres no right to cross examination. Theres no right to produce evidence by the defense at that stage. This is the investigative stage. And so, its an absurd argument and theyre trying to pull one over on the American People. Well, barbara, does the white house have any good legal precedent for why theyre not complying . Give us a little history lesson. No, i dont think they do. I mean, one of the things that they pointed to in the letter is by saying that the house has not yet had a formal vote to launch an impeachment inquiry and says that in the past, that has been done. And that may be the case, but theres nothing in the constitution that requires that. It says the house can decide for itself how it wants to undertake the impeachment process. And so, the mere fact that nancy pelosi has just said were going to begin one is sufficient to begin an inquiry. I believe the house cant impeach without a vote, and if they decide they want to formally impeach and charge the president , that would require a vote, but were just not there yet. And so, again, i think that this is just an effort to try to fool the American People into believing that theres something wrong here about the process when theres nothing wrong about it at all. All right, lets talk democrats. Congresswoman, theres a wall street journal editorial out today saying that President Trump was wrong to ask ukraines president to investigate joe biden, but they go on to question the democrats approach, writing this if democrats are confident that this merits impeachment, why not make the case in public, step by step for all to see . We know this will not make the white house ply, but wouldnt it help persuade the public that the democrats argument in this inquiry are legit . Well, one of the reasons democrats are having such a difficulty making the public argument is because the white house is stonewalling. I mean, the white house and President Trump have decided that they are not going to theyll argue over process, but they dont want to argue over substance, because the evidence is against them. Frankly, i think democrats have enough to go on to proceed with articles of impeachment if the white house decides that it will continue to block the testimony thats necessary for congress to do its job. And you know, the reality is that, you know, as barbara said, the house doesnt have any specific rules when it comes to impeachment, and the president of the United States, the executive, cannot set the rules of the house of representatives when it comes to conducting an impeachment inquiry. And so, i think that this is going to have to continue to play out. It will play out in the courts. And as many witnesses as can be called will be called, and i think democrats should continue to press for the documents. And frankly, it looks really bad on the president , because after all, if it was such a perfect conversation, what in the world is he hiding . But they could press and press all day long and, congresswoman, even if it looks bad for the president , if the actual underlying information looks worse for him and hes successful at blocking it, isnt that a good strategy . Im not saying its right. Well, i mean, i do think that look, we all know that Court Proceedings can drag things out, and clearly, the president wants to do some of that, but i think at the end of the day, the congress is going to win, the house is going to win in the courts when it comes to bringing forth witnesses and documents, and it may take some time. I think the house should also begin to use its strong Enforcement Powers by fining some of these witnesses for not showing up when theyre issued subpoenas. I mean, that is a clear violation. None of us would be able to not show up in court if we were subpoenaed to come before a grand jury, and that is exactly what the white house and the administration are doing, and Congress Needs to play hardball here. Phil, the latest nbc news wall street journal polls find, basically, the country is split in terms of impeachment. Do you see anything happening in the public that might move this thing one way or the other . Well well, we think that phil . We think that slowly over the last couple of weeks, the public polling has shown a slight uptick in support for the impeachment inquiry, but the public is still trying to understand everything thats going on here. Were learning new facts and new discoveries by the day in this case. I mean, it was just last week when the president called for china to investigate joe biden as well. That was a new dimension to all of this. And so, i think that the polling is a little bit of a question mark at this point, and you know, talking to political strategists and lawmakers this week, they dont really see where this is all headed. Theyre trying to make political calculations right now about whether impeaching the president is ultimately going to prove to be the popular thing to do, and theres just not enough information before them to be able to decide that. Barbara, does the Supreme Court have a role here in breaking the deadlock between democrats and the administration . Well, it could, if one of the methods of recourse that the house has is to hold these witnesses in contempt and then File Lawsuits to try to enforce these subpoenas, that would work its way through the court, first the district court, then the court of appeals, and ultimately, it could go to the Supreme Court. We saw that happen in the case of u. S. Versus nixon, when president nixon refused to produce the tapes that he knew were damning, and it could be the same thing that is happening here, that the president is going to try to stonewall until hes forced by the courts to produce information. Of course, the strategy that President Trump might be employing here is to delay, delay, delay, and if he can delay long enough to get past the election, he may consider that a victory. Congresswoman, i want to get back to something you said. You said democrats really need to play hardball here. Is it hardball or is it a completely different game . Because republicans now have a counterattack, an offensive where theyre saying, lets bring Rudy Giuliani to testify before the Senate Judiciary committee, and lets remember, it was three days ago, Rudy Giuliani was on cnn talking about affidavits, holding them in the air, when what he was actually holding with a rightwing Conspiracy Theory blog. Do democrats need to play a different game, given what theyre up against . Well, look, Rudy Giuliani is a private citizen. He doesnt enjoy the kind of immunities and protections that some of these other witnesses do. And frankly, if Rudy Giuliani shows up at the judiciary committee, hes going to lose his argument when it comes to being forced to show up in front of the house of representatives. Well, well soon find out. The situation is not going away. Barbara, phil, congresswoman, thank you all so much. Were going to leave it there. Coming up, big developments in the 2020 president ial race. A justreleased poll reveals a new frontrunner among the democrats. Were going to tell you who on the other side, and Bernie Sanders announcing he is cutting back on some campaigning. But first, a very tense situation happening right now in the middle east with the Turkish Military reportedly preparing to unleash an offensive across the border in Northern Syria, any minute now. 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Get customized security with 24 7 monitoring from xfinity home. Awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Call, click or visit a store today. Welcome back. Weve got breaking news, watching the Syrian Border where turkeys military set to begin an impeding offensive. It is now under way. Turkish troops and hardware are gathering on turkeys southern border. And this morning, a senior turkish official says an assault is imminent against u. S. Allies, the kurds of syria. Lets go to the pentagon where correspondent Courtney Kube is standing by and matt bradley in iraq miles from the border with turkey and syria. Courtney, this is happening now. What are you hearing . So, all were hearing are very early, so far unconfirmed reports, but one of them is from the spokesperson for the Syrian Democratic forces. This is the opposition force, who the u. S. Military has been fighting with for several years there in syria. Hes saying that turkish warplanes have begun air strikes. Ive spoken with one person in the u. S. Military in baghdad whos confirming that they expect that the air strikes they believe the air strikes are just now beginning. So, the question is, you know, what does this mean and where does this go from here, if in fact, its confirmed these are Turkish Military strikes into Northern Syria . What we know is that the turks want to clear out an area along the border with turkey and syria and create what theyre calling a safe zone. They want, basically, a buffer zone, because they believe that the kurds, many of whom who have settled in that area near the border, present a threat to Turkish National security. They see them as terrorists. Of course, from the u. S. Perspective, particularly the u. S. Military, these kurds are the ones who the military has been fighting alongside against isis in syria for several years now, and they have been really the strongest fighting force on the grounds, the ones who are taking the casualties. Theyre still providing security for many of the u. S. Military who are there in syria today. So, you know, its putting the u. S. Military in a very difficult position right now, where theyre faced with a nato ally whos coming in to go after someone who have been their brothers and sisters in arms in syria for several years now, steph. Matt, what are you hearing where you are . Reporter well, stephanie, you know, one of the things that were hearing is that there are turks who are amassing at the border, heavy weaponry, heavy airplanes that are going to be launching air strikes, and as courtney just said, those air strikes may already be beginning as we speak. But one of the interesting things thats going on here, stephanie, is that the turks are going to be taking turkishbacked Syrian Forces from elsewhere in syria, bringing them across the border into syria by bus and transporting them through turkey, and then kind of inserting them into Northern Syria elsewhere. This will give kind of a local face to this, you know, move into syria, so they wont be a foreignoccupying force so much as trying to take syrian arabs from elsewhere in syria and using them to try to say that, you know, were going to be putting syrians back where they belong. And this will be maybe popular among syrian arabs who dont always have the best of relations with syrian kurds, and its going to allow a pretext for the turks to come in here and do exactly what courtney was saying, creating this Peace Corridor and repopulating it. It looks almost like moving or like an ethnic cleansing, moving kurds out of that area and putting syrian arabs in there instead, and theyve done this before in years past, to devastating effect, and a lot of International Organizations called it a humanitarian catastrophe. Now, the kurds have said that they are going to fight. And one of the things theyve been doing today is that they told nbc that they are announcing this turkish incursion as the priority, no longer fighting isis. So, thats dangerous. That means that that could leave a space for isis to regroup and start their own insurgency once again to repopulate that caliphate that ended only just a couple months ago, and thats going to be a big problem, not only for syrians, but for people here in iraq, for europeans, for everyone throughout the entire region. Stephanie . Courtney, anything to add . Yeah, so, im hearing now, it looks like theres the Turkish Military has moved artillery along the border, and it looks like this is the beginning of what the u. S. Military might xhaul shaping operations. So, basically, that means that theyll try to send in air strikes, artillery strikes across the border, and that sort of clears out the area prior to any kind of a ground incursion. So before they start bringing vehicles, troops, tanks, whatever it is, across the border, they would begin with some strikes to try to clear out an area, make it safer for them. So, the next thing that we should expect to see are artillery strikes across the border, perhaps some other kind of small arms, mortars or what not, going across the border from turkey into syria, and we can see that coming. And i want to reinforce something matt just said about the sdf saying theyre going to fight. I spoke with general muslum, who is the head of the Syrian Democratic forces, and he said he is very disappointed on the u. S. Military decision to pull back from the border, but the world should know that the sdf is going to fight, that they are not going to cede what they see as their land, they are territory in Northern Syria, to turkey, steph. All right, courtney, matt, thank you both so much. Matt, stay safe where you are. I want to go deeper on this topic and bring in kelly magnussen. She served on the National Security council in both the obama and bush administrations. Christopher hill, former u. S. Ambassador to iraq and National Political reporter here at nbc, carol lee. Ambassador, lets start with you. How big of a deal is this . Its a very big deal. I mean, the turks have signaled this in the past, but i mean, the problem with the whole syrian situation is the complexity of it exceeds the president s interest or even capacity to understand it, so hes very much buffeted by the last person he talked to, in this case, it was president erdogan. And of course, the president looks at everything through the lens of his base and his campaign promises, so hes thinking to himself, well, if the turks come in, thats okay, well just kind of move out and not worry about commitments that were made in the past. And the president has this sort of unending capacity to suggest that everything before him had to do with president obama, and by golly, hes not going to follow anything president obama did in the past. So, we have an america that is really kind of standing on the sidelines. And frankly, selling out our friends, and i think this has longterm consequences. But to the American People, ambassador, who are not focused on this situation, theyre living their everyday lives, why does this matter to them . Why should they care . First of all, the force that has been most successful against isis is, of course, the Kurdish Forces, and they have been joined by various arabs, but its the Kurdish Forces that have been most successful against isis. The turks are worried that these same Kurdish Forces are somehow organically linked to various kurds in turkey, and for that reason, they want a buffer. But at a minimum, this is really going to impact the capacity to fight isis. And anyone who thinks isis is done, they are not done. Its an extremist sunni group that will reconstitute sooner or later. And the problem will be, when they do reconstitute, well need additional local forces, and perhaps were going to have a much tougher time getting them if we forsake the forces currently in the field. Kelly, what are your concerns about how this is going to play out . Yeah, i agree with ambassador hill. I mean, i think President Trump has set into motion a series of events for which, frankly, his administration has not developed any sort of Contingency Planning around. So you know, there are going to be consequences that hes going to have to manage, whether its the potential resurgence of isis, whether or not its a humanitarian disaster, whether or not its the turks and the syrians opening a new front. This has tremendous consequences down the road, and theres no National Security process around this. Like chris said, the president made this decision impulsively on a phone call, and i dont think they had any sense of how to manage the contingencies around this. Kelly and i know youre not there right now, but you have been previously take us inside the National Security council. How do they play this . What do they do . Well, in a normal National Security council process, there would be a series of options developed for the president , and those options would be weighed with their risks and consequences. But in this case, there wasnt that process. The president just made a decision, and now the nfc has to work to implement that decision through the departments and agencies. So, this is a big mess. I suspect that the pentagon is scrambling to figure out some contingency plans around this. I suspect the state department and ambassador jeffrey are also trying to figure out how to manage this from a syria strategy perspective. This is a giant mess. Its sort of upside down. Should have been done the other way around. Carol, take us to d. C. The president has spent a lot of time this week trying to defend his decision. Is he convincing anybody . Well, hes certainly not convincing a lot of people in congress and certainly a lot of our allies. The Kurdish Forces are not convinced. And even some people in his own administration are not. You know, steph, one of the arguments that they have made in the sort of cleanup portion of this program, after the president s initial announcement, is that the president just decided to pull back some 50 u. S. Troops from this area to keep them safe because turkey was going in anyway, that erdogan made clear on that call that he was going to do this regardless, which really raises the question of what is the u. S. Leverage here and how did this get so flipped so that, you know, if youre another country or a potential adversary in the world, youre looking at this and thinking, you know, is turkey running u. S. Foreign policy, u. S. Military policy . And so, that argument, one of the arguments that theyve put out there in the last 48 hours, really raises more questions than answers, and the president s problem here is that he has done nothing to convince members of congress that this is something that should go forward and that theres a strategy and a plan, and so, youre going to see in coming days lawmakers try to take some sort of action to try to either rein in turkey or a resolution that condemns this and pushes back on the president. How successful that can be now that this is potentially already under way, thats a really open question. I want to switch gears for a moment and talk the president and ukraine. Kelly, you were 1 of 90 former National Security officials who signed on to an open letter in support of the whistleblower who is the one who raised the flag, who blew the whistle about that call with the president of the United States and the president the ukraine. Why did you sign it . You know, like you mentioned, i served in two National Security Council Staffs under two different president s, and i have to say that if i had been the National Security council staffer on ukraine and i had been listening in on that call, i would have had the exact same reaction as the whistleblower sources. I would have been pretty much terrified that the president of the United States was potentially extorting a foreign country to investigate his political rival. Thats not normal behavior. I think any staffer or career Civil Servant would recognize that as not normal behavior, and i think its really important that whistleblowers be protected, that they are able to follow the process of the law, and that they dont have to worry about the consequences for coming forward when they see wrongdoing like that. Ambassador, you wrote an op ed last week about the situation with ukraine, and you basically said, whether or not the president gets impeached is a sideline. We need to do our government needs to do a better job defending our own institutions and the people who work with them. As i say, you were writing about ukraine, but do you see the same parallels or similarities with the situation now with the kurds . Yeah, to some extent. I mean, the president simply doesnt understand that hes not a dictator. Hes the chief executive. He has a vast bureaucracy, and theyre there for a reason and theyre very competent people and very competent institutions, and he ignores them. He has his ambassador, a former hotelier who is at the European Union somehow managing the situation in ukraine. I mean, what in the world is the u. S. Ambassador in the eu dealing with ukraine . Now he has the u. S. Ambassador in germany about to start launching into border disputes between serbia and kosovo as a new special envoy there. So, this is a president who simply doesnt respect institutions and what lanes people should be in, and instead calls on these people who have this personal and very political loyalty to him, and i think this is a huge problem for our country, and i think people should really stop and think about this and do something about it, because the president does not respect the institutions of his office or, frankly, of our government. Welcome, i certainly appreciate the three of you joining us and sharing your expertise. Were going to leave it there. Now were going to take you to the state of alabama, where voters in montgomery, known as the birthplace of the civil rights movement, have elected the first africanamerican mayor in the citys 200year history. County probate judge steven reid defeated local businessman david woods last night. During his victory speech, reid told his supporters this the only thing that can hold us back is our fears. When we come together, there is nothing we cant accomplish. Reid will be sworn in to office on november 12th. History made in montgomery, alabama, last night. Alabama, last night. This fall, book two, separate qualifying stays at choicehotels. Com. And earn a free night. Because when your business is rewarding yourself, our business is you. Book direct at choicehotels. Com a wealth of information. A wealth of perspective. A wealth of opportunities. Thats the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. Straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, taxefficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. Fidelity wealth management. Weve got a new frontrunner in the 2020 democratic race, and it is senator Elizabeth Warren. According to the real clear politics average of all the major polls out there, senator warren now holds a slight lead over joe biden by 0. 2 . And while most op their campaig Bernie Sanders says hes going to slow down just a bit. Thats days after suffering a heart attack. He says he is cutting back his Campaign Events from over four a day to about two. I must confess that i was dumb. I was born, and thank god, that i have a lot of energy. And during this campaign, ive been doing in some cases three or four rallies a day, going all over the state, iowa, New Hampshire, wherever. And yet, i in the last month or two just was more fatigued than i usually have been. And i should have listened to those symptoms. All of this comes as we finally know who will be hosting the november debate. Its us, msnbc and the Washington Post will cohost the fifth democratic president ial primary debate in georgia next month. Joining me now from washington, nbc news senior political editor, who will be busy in georgia next month for that debate, my colleague, mark murray. All right, mark, Elizabeth Warren, now the frontrunner. Does this change the race in any way . Yeah, well, it certainly gives her a lot more scrutiny, stephanie. And i would actually argue, i think we have two cofrontrunners in this race, joe biden and Elizabeth Warren. That real clear politics average can change depending on the poll and all polls are sometimes different, but you have Elizabeth Warren who might be the slight frontrunner in iowa and New Hampshire, joe biden the heavy favorite right now in south carolina. Looking at the national polls, theyre about tied. Id say we have two frontrunners. But also, be worried if you are a frontrunner in the fall or in the buildup to iowa and New Hampshire, stephanie, because oftentimes, the overall frontrunner has not gone on to get the nomination, whether it was Hillary Clinton in 2008, Rudy Giuliani in 2008, even Newt Gingrich was the frontrunner in 2012 at one point. So, sometimes being the frontrunner right now does not get you the prize at the end. All right, lets talk Bernie Sanders, because i think this might need some clarification. He has said hes pulling back, scaling back on some Campaign Events, but he is well known for having an exhaustive schedule. Four events a day sounds like a lot to begin with. So, now that hes moving down to two, how does that compare with the rest of the race . Well, stephanie, hes always been a very vigorous campaigner. And on average, when you look at the candidates, right now they do have about two or three Campaign Events a day. Joe biden, whos holding two town halls in New Hampshire today. And Bernie Sanders, while he does have one of the more vigorous ones, i do think that his statement that he has three or four rallies a day was incorrect. According to our imbeds and his schedule, at most he does have about two rallies a day with a couple other events interspersed in, which may be what he was talking about. Theres no doubt hes been a very vigorous campaigner, stephanie. I think the kind of question is can he be able to keep up, particularly with all the stuff that Elizabeth Warren is doing on her selfie lines and other things like that. I want to stay talking debates. We Just Announced its going to be msnbc and the Washington Post hosting that georgia debate. Give us a sense of how hard its going to be to get on the stage. We know thats a big priority for some of the bottom wrung. Yes, stephanie, next weeks debate from ohio is going to have 12 candidates, one night. As of right now, with the rampedup debate requirements for the november debate, we know that eight Democratic Candidates have qualified, and there are some people who are on the bubble right now, people who im actually looking at, like beto orourke, for example, julian castro, Amy Klobuchar have yet to qualify, and they need to be able to hit 3 in some more polls to be able to get there. And so, we could very well go from 12 to 8, maybe 12 to 10, but it probably will be a smaller stage than what well see next week. All right, mark. Thank you so much. And i want to stay on elections for a moment. The Senate Intelligence committee has released the second volume of its bipartisan report on russian interference in the 2016 election. The 85page report chronicles how the Internet Research agency, a socalled troll farm based in russia, used automated and fake social media accounts to flood users with false reports and conspiracy theories and found that russian social activity, quote, was overtly and almost invariably supportive of then candidate trump to the detriment of secretary clintons campaign. If that sounds familiar to you, it is because the Mueller Report came to the very same conclusion. The second paragraph of that 400page report said this the russian government interfered in the 2016 president ial election in sweeping and systematic fashion. Evidence of russian Government Operations began to surface in mid2016. But if you, if you are worried about a repeat performance from russia in next years election, id like to remind you of what Vladimir Putin told our own keir simmons just last week. Is russia as Robert Mueller alleged, attempting to influence the 2020 elections in the United States . Ill tell you in a secret, yes, we will definitely interve intervene. It is a secret, so everyone can laugh and well go big, but dont tell anyone, please. Please, dont tell anyone. Theres Vladimir Putin laughing about it. Consider that. All right, moving on. One of the key Online Platforms that russia successfully used to interfere in the 2016 election was, of course, facebook. So, what is the social Media Company doing now ahead of the next election . It is continuing to allow ads with false statements and misleading content. But its not russia making false and misleading claims. Youre not going to believe this one. 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In the first election test for the social media giant, they decided not to remove a 30second ad released by the Trump Campaign accusing joe biden and his son, hunter, of bribery in ukraine, one of two attack ads cnn refused to run for being false. For more, lets bring in nbc senior media reporter dylan byers and jeff jarvis, professor at the new marks Journalism School at cuny. Its not just facebook, dylan. Lets start with you. Msnbc did air the ad. We havent made any official comment about it. But were airing it. Cnn isnt. Facebook is. We knew that contentious ads show up at the end of campaigns, but were 13 months out. How difficult is this process . Well, it is a difficult process, and its also not. And let me explain what i mean by that. I have to be honest with you, im a little bit baffled by the way that this story is being covered, particularly when i saw the New York Times report on it last night. What facebook is doing here is theyre getting a lot of pressure for it from the biden campaign. Theyve gotten pressure from Elizabeth Warrens campaign. What theyre doing here is totally in step with how every other Media Organization handles political advertising. You had to read the second to the last paragraph of that the New York Times report, but what you would have found is that the ad has also appeared on twitter, it has also appeared on youtube. As you just mentioned, msnbc and nbc dont necessarily have a policy on it. The outlier in this case is cnn, which has banned two trump ads. And yet, theres a great deal of pressure on facebook i think in light of the 2016 election, in light of voter concerns about misinformation, but at the end of the day, the decision that facebook is making here not to Police Political advertising, not to be the arbiter of what people can and cant say in political advertising is extraordinarily consistent with how the media has treated political advertising for so long. So i for one, you know, and i may be in the minority, i for one dont entirely see what the problem is here. If anything, i think the discussion to be had is about cnn. Is one of the issues maybe the advertising, jeff, the advertising has become so big, sponsored advertising you know, paid advertising that people dont always know is an ad. You might think its news. So, how complicated has this landscape become . Well, its very complicated. Lets remember, stephanie, just to put this into context and be real about this oh, lets get real. Cable news invites on Rudy Giuliani to lie through his teeth all the time for free. We have a Network Across town that regurgitates lies every day. Whats the standard we expect facebook to do . Do we expect it to be that easy to find the truth . Do we want them to be the ministry of truth . If truth was that easy, we wouldnt need thousands of journalists to find it. The problem is the system entry of disinformation in this country. We the right tweets more disinformation and when they go after it, they get rid of speech from the right. The right screams and they threaten to pass laws to regulate internet, which is going to regulate your speech and mine. So, lets be careful. Okay. But then, dylan, you said the conversation is about cnn. If were talking freedom of speech, the greatest advertisements are free ones, and thats cable tv. Kellyanne conway is the one who, what was it, two years ago, started the alternative facts line. Theres no such thing as alternative facts. Theres facts and lies. So, how do you measure this . Look, what i would say to that is, look, theres editorial and theres advertising. Thats true for almost every news platform. I think at the end of the day, you can control your editorial, and if we want to have a larger discussion about how Media Organizations should handle political advertising and whether every Media Organization, be it in Silicon Valley or in new york or in d. C. Should step up and draw, you know, set a higher bar for what can be said in political advertising, thats a fair conversation to have. I just think what were what wes falling into this weird thing where because theres been so much antifacebook sentiment built up over the last few years, were using facebook as the whipping boy. And i dont begrudge cnn the decision to ban the ads. Theyre fully within their rights to do that. I dont know if thats a moral, righteous stand or so much a Marketing Campaign that fits in with their effort to portray themselves as the sort of network that stands up to trump. Look, at the end of the day i think the point made jeff made is that the editorial size would be a great place to sort of monitor truth and lies that appear on the network, and certainly far more influential than any 30second spot thats going to run during a commercial break where people increasingly arent watching commercials. What we have to do is make the public more resilient. We have to recognize that people lie, politicians lie, companies lie, people lie. We have a constitutional right in this country to lie. Its part of our freedom of speech. What we have to do is use journalism and education to make people smarter. I want to stay on freedom of speech. Dillon, lets go to china. You and i talked about it yesterday, the standoff between the nba and china where adam silver defended the gm of the Houston Rockets for sending out a tweet on his personal account supporting hong kong and prodemocracy sentiment and china said absolutely no way. Theyve now pulled tens of millions of sponsor dollars from the Houston Rockets. We know several events to be postponed in china right now where adam silver and the nba is. Talk to us about where we are right now. Could china be overplaying their hand . Almost a billion people in china last year, last season, watched the nba. It is beloved in that country. Could the Chinese Government actually be putting themselves at risk that their own people are going to say, no, this is too much . Yeah, absolutely. And what i would say is that you ask where we are. I would say were in the betting period, the preseason period in terms of the nba and in terms of the tension between the nba and china t. Amount of money thats at stake right now is significant, but ultimately this is a deal that both the nba examine china want to see resolved, and your point about the cultural influence of the nba in china is really important. China has economic might and they flex that economic might and they force changes at all sorts of companies, hotel companies, clothing companies, you name it. The nba is uniquely positioned here to actually call chinas bluff on account of the fact that more than half the population actually engages in that content. I think thats an important lesson for every media and Entertainment Company that has a powerful asset in the middle kingdom. We have a situation going on where countries are going to try to control speech around the world. Now china is trying to get to a point where theyre trying to say this is what you cant say or were going to come after you. The world doesnt have a first amendment, we do. We have to fight for our right of freedom of expression on the internet. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Ive spoken to people inside the nba today and they have said this situation is only getting more tense. I think what a lot of people are waiting for, will the president weigh in. I want to stay on money, power and politics and were once again talking about President Trumps business connections. The president has decided to pull u. S. Troops out of Northern Syria and allow turkey to take over. I am talking money, power and politics and yes, connecting it to turkey and syria. It is not a surprise. It is now putting renewed concern and focus on the president s longtime business relationship with turkey. Joining me from capitol hill, nbc news correspondent who is breaking her story right here right now. We reported it earlier this week, the president has a trump towers in istanbul. He had said a couple of years ago in an interview with steve bannon he might not be able to get involved if he were president in these kind of politics. Hes got a conflict of interest. Doesnt he still have one . Here we are. This is really the first time where the president of the United States is making a major National Security decision where lives are at risk in a country where he, himself, has admitted that he has a conflict of interest. Hes not just any bureaucrat, we have pictures of him at the mixed Office Residential space considered a very important property to the trump portfolio. He was paid 10 million there to have his name put on it, he has had good friends who have invested. He calls them good friends who have invested 400 million in this property. These are people who came to his Inauguration Party in manhattan, actually. And also to exclusive to nbc news, steph, is a new study showing that the turks and turkish fash turkish officials are the top patrons at the trump hotel in washington, including the gentleman who invested 400 million in the trump tower. Hes held a number of events at the hold on a second. Of all the wealthy countries in the world, the country that has spent the most time, the most amount of money at that trump property is turkey . Correct. This is according to an analysis that was performed this week for nbc news by crew. Its the citizens for responsible government. And it is an outside group that has been critical of trump, but theyve gone through these numbers and they showed that turkish officials, above all, are top patrons at the hotel. Its important to stress that we have no idea what went through trumps head when he made this decision. But that is exactly the problem. Trump made this decision after a phone call with erdogan. What else happened . That was when mattis essentially issued his Resignation Letter because trump put out his tweet threatening to do exactly what hes done this week, which is to withdraw troops from Northern Syria. Great reporting, my friend. Well be right back with more. R. I had to retire from law enforcement. It was devastating. One of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. Prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. For sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. And we wont stop. Join us in fighting for whats right. The business of hard work. Hustle. And high fives. Modernized comfort inns and suites have been refreshed because our business is you. Get the lowest price guaranteed on all Choice Hotels when you book direct at choicehotels. Com. Bleech aww awww its the easiest because its the cheesiest. Kraft for the win win. Work so hard give it everything you got strength of a lioness tough as a knot rocking the stage and we never gonna stop all strength, no sweat. Just in case you forgot all strength. No sweat secret. All strength. No sweat. Weve got to end on a high note. In honor of International Day of the girl this friday, weve got good news ruhles all week that honor women and girls. Today we would like to honor the 5yearold on the right. Bee and some of her friends opened a Lemonade Stand and raised 148 and the two families donated the money to the cincinnati Childrens Hospital where young bee got a liver transplant years ago. It went viral and the squad ended up making a lot more than 148. So far, these kids have raised at least 175,000 for cincinnati Childrens Hospital. Thats definitely worth raising a glass of lemonade to. This friday will be viewers choice so make sure to tune in and vote for your favorite girl. That wraps up this hour. Coming up with a whole lot more rules, hallie jackson. We have breaking news as we come on the air this hour. Turkey as we speak, following through on its promise and officially launching the military operation in northeast syria. The attacks went to move Kurdish Forces back from the border. The same forces considered americas closest partners in the fight against isis. This is the first move by turkey, the first one since President Trump said the u. S. Wouldnt stand in their way. You see some new video coming into us this morning and the kurds are