Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle 20190809

Nra now vows to oppose any legislation it says infringes on rights. Joining me now with the latest on this fight over guns, nbcs Peter Alexander at the white house. Politicos jake sherman who covers capitol hill. Peter, lets go to you first. The president leaving washington. He has said a lot of things on twitter. Hes gone down to el paso. Hes gone to dayton. Hes had a phone call with Wayne Lapierre. Where does it sound like he stands on these gun reform measures . We have a pretty good indication from the president , himself. This is what he tweeted within the last hour or so. Let me read this to you and follow along with me on your screen. He writes, serious discussions are taking place between house and Senate Leadership on meaningful background checks. I have also been speaking to the nra and others so that their very strong views can be fully represented and respected. Guns should not be placed in the hands of mentally ill or deranged people. This may be the key line. He writes, i am the biggest Second Amendment person there is but we must all Work Together for the good and safety of our country. Common sense things can be done that are good for everyone. What is clear is that what the president is willing to do is ultimately what will happen in congress. Mitch mcconnell is waiting to hear those signs, those clues from the president how far he is willing to go on this. You remember after parkland the president said he wanted strong background checks but as for the two background check bills that are on the Senate Majority leaders desk right now there was a veto threat from the president. So has anything changed this go around . The president has privately and in conversations with aides, allies, and opponents, expressed a new, renewed willingness to open up this conversation about background checks. How would he be willing to do that if he did . Would it come in the form of an executive order . His aides have mentioned there is an interest in that. Would it happen through legislation or more broadly, you know, would the president sort of go back on what he had said in the past as it relates to gun laws and sort of followed the nra position on this . It is notable the nra which has been having financial challenges lately, this may be the kind of fight they want right now that sort of galvanizes their base. Nonetheless, Mitch Mcconnell as jake will help explain likely waiting for his cues from the president. Lets talk of Mitch Mcconnell. We know Speaker Pelosi sent a letter to the president , jake, urging him to force the senate back into session. Mitch mcconnell is actually signaling not that he is going to call everybody back tomorrow but he may be open to some sort of legislation. Lets be clear what he said. We dont know what he means. We cant get in his head. Mitch mcconnell has a tendency to say words whether they have deeper meaning that is usually what people do with words, jake. Yeah, listen. Mcconnell just stated a fact. The fact he stated was, background checks will be in the center of the conversation. Thats true. No doubt about that. They are already in the center of the conversation. Now lets put that with the other facts we know. The president said hes talking about background checks and he doesnt want guns in the hands of mentally ill or deranged people. Those are not the background checks that democrats are talking about. Maybe thats part of it. But democrats want background checks for everybody. They dont want more than mentally ill and deranged people to have guns, they want stringent requirements on all sorts of people to not have guns. So again, the point we made in playbook this morning which i think Everybody Needs to heed this advice which is everything right now is noise. Until the president says, i want background checks and background checks to me means x, y, z, Everything Else is irrelevant. Because republicans are certainly not going to come back but theyre not going to come out in support of anything until they know exactly where the president is. I mean, one could have a lot of criticisms of this president but also concede the fact that he is stunningly popular with his base and people will follow him and abandon long held orthodoxies for this president. They did it on spending and a lot of things. If he says he is for something people will march in line behind him. We know that because weve seen it in the past. But the president s base isnt going anywhere and 97 of the country is for background checks. Its not just democrats who want them. The nation does. Sure. But democrats and the nation wanted them after the last dozen shootings and we havent seen anything happen after that. So the missing piece here if what you say is true, which it is, polls shogun control as being high, very popular around the country, so the missing piece is republicans supporting it. That would appear to be the missing piece. The person that can get republican lawmakers, the people who have the voting cards, galvanized around this is the president. I want to just remind everybody, barack obama went around the country campaigning for gun control during his presidency and said it was his top priority, was unable to get it done. Why . Because the republicans were worried. The difference, jake, gun owners and the nra have a better relationship with President Trump than they do with barack obama. The argument then was its a slippery slope. Dont trust him. They have more trust in the president. He could actually do something here. Yeah. I completely agree. So the president needs to either neutralize or ignore the nra and get republicans behind him. All right. Peter alexander, jake sherman, thank you. I want to bring into the conversation my friend Ashley Parker Pulitzer Prize winning White House Reporter for the washington post, former republican congressman from the state of florida, and Jason Johnson politics editor at the root. Com all lucky for us are msnbc contributors. Jake just mentioned Mitch Mcconnell. Is this different from what weve heard in the past . The fact that he is saying background checks will be part of the conversation, is it a positive or a an opening that he is even saying there will be a conversation . Potentially. But i sort of agree with what jake said that at the end of the day, what you and jake said actually. At the end of the day this all comes down to President Trump. President trump does have a better relationship with the nra. President trumps base as you pointed out absolutely is not going anywhere. But the question is, does President Trump fully understand that . He willing to give these republican lawmakers the cover to do something on guns . Because President Trumps base is never going anywhere. Thats something that becomes very clear any time i go out and i talk to voters and i talk to Trump Supporters. And even so, the president when he is based with these decisions does he do exactly what his base wants, does he try to move his base a little more moderate . Weve seen it a lot on immigration. Oftentimes the most compelling argument is the one from in immigration for instance the antiimmigrant hardliners, on guns, for instance, the nra, the hardline, red meat argument that pushes him back into the corner of where his base is not pushing them to do anything uncomfortable at all. That said, i think if the president wanted to come out and say, background checks should be part of the conversation, we have the Senate Majority leader on board, we have the Public Opinion polls on board, and the nra and my base, were just going to have to do something that might feel a little uncomfortable but is the right thing to do, he absolutely probably has the political will power and clout to do it but he, himself, may not be able to get there. Thats the big question. Congressman, you have been in office when the tragic shootings have happened. There has been momentum and then it fizzles out. Do you think this time could be different . Stephanie, every time that theres been a national tragedy, mass shooting of this nature, since donald trump has been on the political stage back in 2015, 2016 when he started, the president has expressed support for common sense gun reform. Hes expressed support for backgrounds. Only to allow the nra to veto him each time. That is the central question here. I dont even think its about the base. I think there are a lot of Trump Supporters throughout this country who support universal background checks and other common sense gun reforms. This is about one organization and the president and the white house need to decide if they are going to proceed with courage and demand action from the senate, specifically, or if they are going to cave to the nra once more, because, certainly, the nra is part of the coalition that elected the president. But this is a central question in politics today, whether people are willing to compromise and move to the middle or simply satisfy their bases and the special interests who support them. So, congressman, this is not about the american voter. This is about the 30 million bucks the nra gave to help President Trump get elected and all of the other money theyve given to those lawmakers out there with a and a plus ratings from the nra . Thats what this is about . That is certainly a major factor and the nra is a force to be reckoned with in republican primaries. It is not just the president who is worried about this. Senators and house members are worried as well. I will say, stephanie, this time feels different. I have seen some House Republicans who in the past were not interested on engaging in this issue now saying, we do want to move forward. And these are not the moderate members. These are members kind of from the middle of the House Republican conference. So i do have some hope. But itll be very difficult. The president is the one who will have to clear the nra hurdle. Jason, your perspective. How do democrats play this . If the president gets anything done, it could be a huge win for him, and lets be honest, he needs one. It could be, but no one believes he will. I mean, no one i talked to in d. C. Believes he will. Not one single strategist would say, this is his moment to pivot . He could but hes not going to. Donald trump has never really negotiated in good faith. That is one of the reasons as much as we criticize Mitch Mcconnell part of why he is so powerful is because he knows he cant trust his boss. He knows what donald trump will say or tweet and say in meetings can be completely different by the next day. Unless Mitch Mcconnell knew for a fact he was going to stand in the rose garden with donald trump saying ill sign this right now there is no reason for any change to happen. The democrats have been pretty clear. Theyre all in favor of various forms of gun buyback programs or making certain kinds of rifles illegal. They just have to be consistent. This is really an internal argument with the republican party. Its not much the democrats can do other than sort of spout rhetoric. Ashley, the nra released a statement on this possible legislation saying this. The nra opposes any legislation that unfairly infringes upon the rights of lawabiding citizens. The Inconvenient Truth is this. The proposals being discussed by many would not have prevented the horrific tragedies in el paso and dayton. I know your colleagues have been reporting on the pressure the nra has been putting on the president. What can you tell us about that . And how powerful are they really . So far the nra has proven themselves incredibly powerful. They have a sort of playbook after each mass shooting weve seen which is to not back down and if anything to ramp up and ratchet up the pressure. Our understanding is the president has spoken with Wayne Lapierre a number of times. All of the conversations, the nra has been putting pressure on the president to basically not move ahead with anything, saying it will hurt him with his base. One more thing worth noting is that there is pressure from the nra, certainly, that might be kind of like the most sensitive pressure point, but there are also real conservatives in the president S Administration who also dont necessarily want to see him move forward with sweeping gun control measures. And so these people are also more than happy to have the nra in the president s ear. There are also people in hiS Administration who feel as weve discussed on the show that the public polling, the sentiment is moving elsewhere, that sort of everyone can agree on some common sense gun reforms but its the nra as sort of the biggest point. Also, people and advisers and aides surrounding the president who dont necessarily disagree with the nra point of view. He is hearing it from a couple of different sides. This could be an extraordinary moment for the president to pivot. Jason says, no shot. Congressman, any shot the president pivots here . I do think that the president wants to do something. What that is remains to be seen. I do think they want to strengthen background checks. I dont know if theyll get to universal background checks but certainly are moving in that direction. Senator Lindsey Graham who leads the Judiciary Committee in the senate has indicated hes had positive conversations with the president. Just the fact that Mitch Mcconnell says he is open to a conversation about background checks is a departure from past reactions and statements in the wake of these tragedies. So, again, i wouldnt bet on it but i am a little more hopeful than i have been in the past. All right. Congressman, ashley, jason, thank you all. We have a lot more to cover. Stick around. As this gun debate reaches a Tipping Point i will be speaking with the former new york city mayor michael bloomberg. He and 2020 contenders will be speaking at a Gun Violence Forum in iowa tomorrow. One big question. How does he plan to beat the nra . Watch for that tomorrow afternoon right here on msnbc. But next, why a former cia director just said trump is basically decapitating the intel community. So why treat your mouth any differently . Listerine® completes the job by preventing plaque, early gum disease, and killing up to 99. 9 of germs. Try listerine® and for onthego, try listerine® ready tabs™ stimulant laxatives forcefully stimulate i switched to miralax for my constipation. The nerves in your colon. Miralax works with the water in your body to unblock your system naturally. And it doesnt cause bloating, cramping, gas, or sudden urgency. Miralax. Look for the pink cap. Who used expedia to book the Vacation Rental which led to the discovery that sometimes a little down time can lift you right up. Expedia. Everything you need to go. Expedia. Yof your daily routine. Lf so why treat your mouth any differently . Listerine® completes the job by preventing plaque, early gum disease, and killing up to 99. 9 of germs. Try listerine® and for onthego, try listerine® ready tabs™ another shakeup this time among his top intelligence officials. The nations number two Intelligence Officer sue gordon announcing late yesterday she is leaving. A source tells nbc she made the decision after learning President Trump wasnt giving her the top job. In a letter to the president gordon announced her official resignation but in an accompanying, handwritten note, she clarified. This move was an act of respect and patriotism not preference. Writing this. You should have your team. Shortly after the news broke of gordons resignation the president appointed current Counterterrorism Center director Joseph Mcguire as acting director of national intelligence. Hell replace former director dan coats who stepped down last week. Joining me to discuss, nbcs senior White House Reporter and former senior director on the National Security council and special assistant to president george w. Bush michael allen. Sue gordon was next in line to take the post. What do we know about her relationship with President Trump . For some reason the white house didnt want her stepping into that role even on an acting basis no the to mention permanently. Then despite a lot of support she was getting from capitol hill, from republicans and democrats, she was highly respected there. Director coats, who was stepping down advocated for her to take the position. But for whatever reason, the president was not comfortable with her. And i will say, this decision and her resignation is being taken really hard by members on the hill and members in the Intelligence Community. She was had been at the cia since the 1980s. She rose to the top ranks of that organization. She was really well liked. And now we essentially have the top two positions in the Intelligence Community. Overseeing the all the intelligence agencies cia, nsa, without permanent leadership right now. That is a big hole at a really critical time. Michael, tell us about sue gordon. You knew her during your time in the Intelligence Community. She is of unimpeachable integrity and boundless energy. She was one that wanted to fight the bureaucracy, Bring Technology to the Intelligence Community mission. So this is a big loss for the country. I think she fulfilled her duties in managing this 80 billion enterprise called u. S. Intelligence. I wish she were able to stay on in an acting role. The president gets to decide who his team should be but this transition should have been cleaner. Well, she can stay on. She doesnt want to. So lets talk about the politics. Shannon, this all comes after the president withdrew his nomination of congressman John Ratcliffe last week. We know don jr. Tweeted sue gordon was best friends with former cia director john brennan. So is this about the president having his allies . Well, he clearly wasnt comfortable with director coats who came before her and it seems very clear he was not comfortable with her either. And didnt, you know, there had been this tense relationship with coats. She obviously worked very closely with him and was someone who he had advocated for taking the position. That probably didnt do her any favors. However, the president and the white house should have had in mind who they wanted their team to be. And they should have handled that and managed that in a way they could get it through. So the president decided he wanted congressman ratcliffe into this position. But the white house really did nothing to have an organized rollout and nomination for that process so when criticism began about his resume and his qualifications he was really left sort of hanging out in the wind. You know, as john was just saying, this has not been handled well. This has been a bungled rollout. Were talking about the top two positions overseeing the entire Intelligence Community for the United States are now essentially without leadership. Lets talk about the impact of that. Michael, while john brennan says he has enormous respect for sue gordon, don jr. Is not correct in characterizing them as best friends. But he does say that losing sue gordon and dan coats is basically decapitating the Intelligence Community. Do you agree with that assessment . Well, i do think joe maguire is a good man and we have literally hundreds of people that can help through this transition but there is no question that this peak and valley approach to National Security personnel transitions is not ideal. Were in the middle of trade talks. Were trying to get things going with the north koreans. Were trying to apply maximum pressure in venezuela and iran. We need a permanent set of people in the office of the director of national intelligence. Remember, this job by statute is the principal intelligence adviser to the president. Weve got to get this right and weve got to get it right in a hurry. All right. Shannon, thank you so much. Shannon pettypiece and michael allen. Next, joe biden holding his lead in iowa. Could Elizabeth Warrens upcoming soap box speech at the iowa state fair change that and push her to the forefront . Ite t . Can you feel calm in the eye of a storm . Can you do more with less . Can you raise the bar while reducing your footprint . For our 100 years weve been answering the questions of today to meet the energy needs of tomorrow. Southern company when i needed to create a better visitor experience. Improve our workflow. Attract new customers. Thats when fastsigns recommended fleet graphics. Yeah, and now business is rolling in. Get started at fastsigns. Com. The first person to survive alzis out there. 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And if youve got cutrate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. So get allstate. And be better protected from mayhem. Like me. Today is day two of the iowa state fair. A critical stop for nearly all of the 2020 president ial hopefuls. Yesterday we saw former vp joe biden and montana governor Steve Bullock take the soap box to make their cases. Today several more will do the same including Julian Castro and tulsi gabbard. Meanwhile, a new Monmouth University poll shows joe biden holding his lead against his democratic rivals in iowa with 28 of likely voters saying they would support him in the 2020 election while Elizabeth Warren has seen a huge surge since the spring of 12 percentage points. Our nbc road warriors are in iowa with the latest. Mike memoli in boon with the Biden Campaign and ali vitale in humboldt with senator warren. What is the feeling within joe bidens campaign at the moment . Reporter stephanie, we moved from the state fairgrounds yesterday to the county fairgrounds today where the former Vice President is now in the third day of a fourday trip. Here through iowa the campaign is feeling very good about their position here but what you hear from them and what you heard yesterday from the Vice President himself is that theyre not taking anything for granted. They know this is a marathon, not a sprint. The former Vice President yesterday talking to reporters after he spoke at the soap box there saying he knows he is in a much stronger position now than in the previous two times he ran for president here in iowa because he has the ability to do much more in terms of building an organization throughout the state. Building that ground game. He also, it was interesting in terms of what he actually told the voters a the soap box. We heard him at one point talking about his vision for where the Democratic Party needs to be to win over voters like a lot of them here in iowa that voted for bm in 2008 and 2012 and then voted for trump in 2016. He says we need to be playing to those voters in the middle, playing to those voters in purple districts and red districts not just to our base. Michael, a lot of the attention is being paid to a gaffe vp biden made yesterday at an asian and Latino Coalition in des moines. We have this notion somehow if you are poor you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and jucht just as talented as white kids. Wealthy kids. Black kids. Asian kids. I really mean it. Think how we think about it. How is the Biden Campaign responding to criticism over these comments . I mean, yes. If he were in a general election the president says far worse things multiple times a day but he is not in a general. He is in a primary. Yeah. Thats right, stephanie. We havent heard any reaction specifically from the Biden Campaign just yet. I think they are mulling over if and how to respond to this, sometimes responding makes it a bigger story. It is important to put this in context. It was one comment in a twohour event. There was a stump speech, q a, handshakes after. I dont think it really registered. You heard some of the applause from those on hand. What was interesting, i think this tells you that the Trump Campaign is watching the former Vice President very closely especially in a week in which the Vice President hit President Trump very hard. We remember that speech. He gave that earlier in the week linking the president to white nationals and saying he fanned the flames of division. This is clearly a Trump Campaign eager to spotlight a moment in which they think they caught the Vice President in a moment. But what is interesting to note as well is the clip that the rnc and Trump Campaign quickly circulated did not put that in the full context. I think you saw the Vice President catch himself quickly and recognize maybe it wasnt the smoothest way to present that point but he broadened it out to include more. He absolutely caught himself right there when you heard the full sentence. Ali vitale, Elizabeth Warrens numbers are up big in the latest iowa polling. 12 points since the spring. How is she going to capitalize on that . Well, shes capitalizing on it by not being really focused on the polls. When you ask her and her campaign about it they really arent fazed when you see this up and down ebb and flow. When mike says this is a marathon not a sprint i think all the campaigns are really keeping that in mind because theres still a lot of this primary left to go. And so for someone like Elizabeth Warren who has contended with this question of is she electable, how does she prove her electability, i think it is a twopronged question. On the one hand it is asking voters to consider as they always do who is a president and what does a president look like . Is this person someone i can see in the oval office . But then on the other hand its the top concern of all democratic voters is can this person beat donald trump . There are a lot of ways to go about making that argument. The way senator warren has been making it is by pushing policy and taking that to not necessarily only democratic leaning states. Shes been to arizona. Shes done trips to ohio. She has been to west virginia. Those are red states that went for trump in 2016. She is trying to prove that she can push her message that may not be popular statewide but that she is going to go and try to get every vote with her policy sent rick messaging. Lets bring mike memoli back in. Joe bidens Campaign Just put out a response, a statement reading this. As we approach the twoyear anniversary of trump calling neo nazis and klansmen very fine people, donald trump is desperate to change the subject from his atrocious record of using racism to divide this country. Vice president bideen misspoke and immediately made the point he often uses that all children deserve a fair shot and children born into difficult circumstances are just as bright as others. The Trump Campaign posting the video without the Vice President s immediate correction is patently disingenuous and it is no coincidence this comes days after joe biden laid out how the president emboldens White Nationalism and embraces racism and hours after one of trumps breitbart lackeys confronted him about his response to charlottesville. What is this gas lighting . What happened yesterday . Hours after trump what is that . Thats right. There was a press gaggle the preside Vice President did, there was a reporter from Breitbart News who approached the Vice President , asked him about in his view of the way he believes the Vice President has misrepresented Donald Trumps comments after charlottesville, their view is that in fact the president did not refer to the White Supremacists as being equal or very good people on both sides along with those who were protesting. The Vice President immediately and forcefully responded to that saying that is absolutely not the case. So what youre seeing here in this statement is an effort again to reframe this discussion, make it about donald trump versus joe biden, an attempt to look beyond the primary campaign and what do they feel is a real strong argument, strong debate for them. Well, if donald trump thought joe biden was going to back down, hes not. Thank you both. Mike member memoli and ali vitale. Weve heard a lot of promises from candidates appealing to communities and towns with the message that as president they can help. With gridlock in washington local leaders are taking it upon themselves to help their own. They have said they are fed up. My next guest is the mayor of a town that has for years been dealing with serious issues on a very local and life threatening level. Flint, michigan. Mayor, thank you for being here. What is the number one issue for the people of flint, michigan . Well, the number one issue has to continue to be having access to clean and affordable water. Thats what weve been talking about. Were still reeling from what happened when our water was poisoned by lead. While weve made a lot of progress in flint our big challenge is our in home plumbing, you know, the appliances. Those things were damaged. So while our water tests better, were changing those pipes, if those things were damaged you will still have lead poisoned water. And weve been talking with the government about making flint whole. That has to be one of the main issues were still fighting for. We want to be an example to everyone else around this country about being a spokesperson for clean water and the importance of infrastructure. But, you know, also, we have some of the same challenges that other communities have when you want to talk about public safety. And having funding for police and fire. Thats extremely important. And opportunities for jobs. Thats what were looking at. Thats what we want to hear is that we will have someone in the white house that has our back to make flint whole but, also, those other challenges that we deal with at other communities especially urban communities are struggling with right now. Mayor, Marianne Williamson brought this up at the debate, saying the water issue would not have happened in an affluent area like grosse pointe, michigan. She has said we have to stop making race a social issue and its a human and economic one. How do we do that and do you agree with her . We whole heartedly agree with her. That is one of the things weve talked about in flint all along and something that we knew. We said this would not have happened someplace else and if it did, it would have been corre corre corrected immediately. We shouldnt have had to wait a year and a half before what we knew. We knew we were drinking poisoned water before it was validated. 18 months is a long time. Its too long. So, yes. We agree with that. That was what we talked about. If this had happened someplace else this would have been corrected. And it hasnt been, you know, we havent been made whole and no one has been held accountable. No one has been held accountable for whats happened in flint. When you have kids that have been damaged and weve had loss of life. Weve had 13 people die from legionnaires and no one has been held accountable. Were still waiting. That would have happened as well. Are there any specific candidates appealing directly to your constituents . I know you havent endorsed any candidates but you did attend the last debate as joe bidens guest. We actually spoke to some voters in your area who said, we need something new and different. Weve been suffering for a long time. You know what . Ive had conversation with many of the candidates. The two that have reached out to me the most have been joe biden and cory booker. So while no endorsement has been made because were still in conversation and i think i heard you say earlier, this is a marathon not a sprint, and so were waiting to see what the other candidates have to say because we want somebody that is going to be a spokesperson for flint, thats going to help make us whole and make sure this never happens any place else in the country. All right. Mayor, thank you so much for joining me. Please come back soon. Mayor karen. Thank you. Coming up today you wont believe this. Today marks five years since Michael Brown was shot to death by police in ferguson, missouri. It was a defining moment in american Race Relations, sparking protests and giving voice to the black lives matter movement. So what has changed in the five years since . And what hasnt . But were also a company that controls hiv, fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for from thewhat you need. Rn i wish i could shake your hand. Granted. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Or trips to mars. 4. 95. Delivery drones or the latest phones. 4. 95. No matter what you trade, at fidelity its just 4. 95 per online u. S. Equity trade. 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The only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12hour painrelieving strength of aleve that dares to last into the morning. So you feel refreshed. Aleve pm. Theres a better choice. Shaving has been difficult for me i have very sensitive skin, and i get ingrowing hairs oh i love it. Its a great razor. It has that fence in the middle. It gives a nice smooth shave. Just stopping that irritation. That burn that i get. I wouldnt use anything else lets go to developing news from within this past hour from police in ferguson, missouri following the deadly shooting of a teenager by police, 18yearold Michael Brown shot dead by Police Saturday afternoon two days before he was reportedly set to begin his first day of college. Can you hear me . Yes, i can hear you. Whats going on at your location now . A lot of Police Officers started marching forward, im not sure if you can hear in the background the booms, explosions. Nothing but smoke and air and people are running back. Theyre marching on and people were standing in the street. Some grenades and tear gas. The entire street is filled with smoke. You cant see i cant see 20 yards ahead of me. Thats what were covering. The gentleman behind me in the mask is telling me this is a Civil Rights Movement not just about mike brown but all people. There is a lot of frustration. It has been five years since africanamerican teenager Michael Brown was shot to death by a white Police Officer in ferguson, missouri. A killing that prompted thousands to take to the streets and demand equality and justice. The protests lasted for months and highlighted for all the world to see the deep rooted problems with Race Relations in this country. So as we look back on that day and the months of anger that followed, the question is, what has changed in the last five years . What still needs to be done . Joining me now msnbc correspondent tremaine lee who was in that video we just showed. He reported on the ground in ferguson for weeks. Sometimes in very dangerous situations. And Jason Johnson back with me. Five years. You were on the ground there. Sometimes choking on tear gas. What goes through your mind as you look back on the last five years . Reporter you know, stephanie, where do we begin . I think back to that august day and it was so hot. You know, august in st. Louis. More so, emotions were running even hotter. To think this was sparked not just by this long history of alleged Police Abuses in that community but Michael Browns body laying out baking in the sun for four hours, drawing people out of their homes. Really the neighborhood that sparked this movement. And it truly was a movement that spread not only from st. Louis and missouri but across the country. I remember the pain in peoples faces. There was so much excitement from young people who really saw this as a moment to force some change but it was built on emotion and pain and hurt and so many people identified with Michael Brown not because they knew Michael Brown but they knew of Michael Brown. They knew an 18yearold black man stopped by the police every single day in missouri. They understand the disparities in the treatment from Law Enforcement and the courts. And to think back to that moment, there was so much anger and frustration and pain but, also, so much great hope. When i think back to those days, five years ago, and we wonder how much has changed and we remember those moments where the seeds were planted we have to question how much has changed . How much blood and sweat and tears were spilled . And for what at this point . How much has changed, jason . A lot has changed and not for the better. When i think of that and i was there, i was there for two riots. I was tear gassed. I saw the police basically do the most abusive simon says game possible of telling activists go here then go there and then use it as an excuse to beat people down and shoot them and embrace a kind of violence that most of us didnt believe was possible in this country or to live with it on a regular basis. I think to myself, imagine if this had happened under president donald trump. Imagine what would have happened to that town. He would have sent tanks. People would have died. There would have been massive arrests. Have we changed as a country . Yes. People are aware these things happen now but have we changed for the better . I wouldnt say yes. Not when you have a White Nationalist in the white house. Not when you have a Justice Department that is snatching back consent decrees from the very communities that were engaging this kind of behavior. Not when ferguson still has the same mayor. So, you know, i am trying to sort of hold control of myself because it was a pretty disturbing experience and trymaine and i have had this kind of conversation before. It also marked a change in the responsibility and behavior of black journalists in this country because these are some of the places that we would go that i think some of our white colleagues wouldnt at the time. And so we have been dealing with not just the trauma of what has happened to this country but having to go into these places and directly live with this kind of violence on a regular basis and explain it to our colleagues. Thats what ive experienced in the last five years. Are we moving backwards as jason says . This week alone we saw another Minority Community targeted in the wake of the shooting in el paso, latinos across the country are saying, theyre living in fear. And im not just talking about undocumented immigrants. Im talking about citizens. Are we moving backwards . I think it is twofold. Just to keep it kind of ho hyperlocal in ferguson one issue was with the st. Louis county prosecutor declining to lead the grand jury to an indictment of Darren Williams the Police Officer. That has changed. When you think about what ferguson actually represents the same way obamas presidency ushered in this new era of hate and people couldnt imagine this brown skinned man with the name barack obama was in the white house that was a pivot point. You saw Blue Lives Matter emerge next to black lives matter. It really was baked into that right and racist white supremacist right. What i see from ferguson five years on, it was really a Tipping Point in many ways. We had to address and confront the long history of abuses from Law Enforcement but then there were the seething of resentments from obama to trevone martin to Michael Brown and i dont think we get where we are now without those events of Michael Brown. People will point to ferguson and say look at that. Theyre animals burning an American City without peeling back the layers to understand the frustration and pain and all heaped on folks for generation after generation. In some ways there has been progress but if the last three years have proven anything at all it is that the pendulum always swings back. Whenever there is progress especially in terms of Race Relations you see the pendulum of White Supremacy swing back. I think we are seeing the seeds of that now. I think jason is right on. But still i do believe in talking to activists on the ground and Community Folks and young, a group of young voters in particular who are activated, engaged, energized, they still believe in change, the sad part is there is so much weight on those folks in ferguson where so many activists have lost their lives. There have been a number of suicides, a number of deaths. Mysterious deaths in that community of people linked to the ferguson uprising. And so while so much has changed so much has most certainly remained the same, stephanie. Thank you. Jason, we talked about this yesterday. Theres been backlash this week against businessman stephen ross of related soul cycle and equinox. Hell be hosting a fundraiser for prtz trump this weekend in the hamptons and we saw customers stand up and say no more. En masse there has been a boycott. There is a tweet that stood out to me from my friend and yours matthew dowd where he writes, let me get this straight. Many Trump Supporters think it is right to boycott nike for fighting against racism but it is wrong to Boycott Companies who support racism . Do i have that right . Whats your thoughts . We talked about this before. We are finally at this important public narrative moment where you can no longer say im down with trump for the tax cuts and the racism is just an extra thing. Its both. It is both. If you support this president , then youre supporting his White Nationalism. If nationalism. If you support the president , you support caging babies at the border. If you support the president , you support sending in i. C. E. Who separate children from their parents. I think this is a wonderful critical moment. If you support this president , you have every right to, were in a democracy. But you can be shamed, exposed. And the public can say i dont want to take part in what thiS Administration is doing any more. Ashley, are you there . Yeah, im here. So, to me, the critical point here is this is about women, women got out there and ran and voted and won in 2018. Soul cycle, equinox. You know who the Customer Base are . Women. We are seeing the sentiment, preview of what is going to fuel the 2020 election or is this really the story of the day because rage is all the rage and people are going to be right back on their soul bikes tomorrow when they realize the 42 class passes are going to expire soon . Potentially. One thing is certain that women, moderate, suburban women will be crucial in deciding this election one way or the other. But i do think it is important to separate a boycott of soul cycle with voting in november. Theres a very real world in which you said people paid in advance for 0010 packs and they dont want to return to soul cycle. Do they go out and canvas . Do they vote in november . Do they get friends to persuade their friends who maybe voted for President Trump last time but dont like the tweets, the language, the way he speaks about women, about blacks, hispani hispanics. A boycott can certainly be powerful. It is the anger, frustration and rage a lot of people are feeling at the president right now. But there is a leap to what it translates to when it comes to politics in the ballot box. Thank you all. Jermaine, jason, ashley. The largest single state Immigration Enforcement in the United States history still has families reeling across mississippi. New numbers from Homeland Security show, like we do every time this year, a drop in the number of immigrants at the border. A decrease common around the summer. 82,049 people were arrested or turned away at the southern border. The first time in the last five months we have seen a figure below 100,000. Joining me is caliperry and carlos carbelo. I want to talk about the raids and the spirit of this Immigration Enforcement action. My colleague, chris hayes, put it this way last night. These raids and deportations are more of an act of cruelty than anything else. What do they accomplish . Congressman, these people may have broken the law into coming into the United States illegally but they werent committing any crimes the last couple of days. They were at work performing jobs that a company hired them to do. Stephanie, look, we are a country of laws. Would should insist people come to the country legally. When we choose how to enforce our laws, i think we should be compassionate and target those individuals who are involved in criminal activities, not people who actually supporting american businesses and American Families by doing some very difficult jobs. There is a balancing act here. You cant send the message that you can come illegally and everything is fine and there will never be any consequences. More importantly, what we should really do is reform our immigration laws once and for all so we can fix this whole mess, give the people working and contributing the opportunity to stay and continue doing that. Of course Deport Anyone who has been involved in criminal conduct or who has been hurting our country while theyre here. And set up the rules for the future for a modern immigration center. Cal, take us to the border. You had exclusive access to the Mexican National guard and you got to see how they are patrolling the border. This is a new development. When we talk about the tidal waves, child separation, i. C. E. Raids, they have ripple effects. What we have been hearing from donald trump is different than what he said about mexico when he was running for president. He is saying now he loves mexico. He threatened them with tariffs. Now you have 11,000 members along the border with guatemala. Imagine the difficult position that puts this country in. Add a city like that on the southern border, thousands who have been deported are stranded, unable to go south. Dont have money. Unable to go north. We have sound. Take a listen. What do you think of everything thats happening with President Trump and all of this. You know, i actually understand what the president is trying to do. What is it like to be deported . Its horrible. Youre living a life, a different life. All of a sudden you end up being somewhere else where you dont know nothing. Yeah. Make no mistake, these are people who feel like foreigners in mexico, the trump doctrine of immigration is one that is completely void of my compassion, stephanie. All right. Cal perrey, thank you very much. Carlos carbelo, thank you for your insights. The president speaking to reporters right now. We will have the sound as it comes in. Youre watching msnbc. Comes in youre watching msnbc. But were also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. I mean, if you havent thought abfrankly, youre missing out. Uh. The mobile app makes it easy to manage your policy, even way out here. Your marshmallows. Get digital id cards, emergency roadside service, even file a. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa oops, that cheeky little thing got away from me. My bad. Geico. Its easy to manage your policy whenever, wherever. Can i trouble you for another marshmallow . For a restless nights sleep. 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We have learned from our producers and reporters on the ground that the president has been talking about background checks, his relationship with the