Coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. That decision still has not been made. They have been delaying this time line here and stretching it out to some great length. Although Rudy Giulianis comments yesterday campaigning for house candidate of all things in New Hampshire were interesting. Essentially trying to call Robert Muellers bluff. Saying if youve got the goods, now is the time. Heres some of giuliani extending that Poker Metaphor a bit. We believe that the investigation should be brought to a close. We think were at the end of it. They should render their report. Put up i mean, i guess playing poker, we say put up or shut up, what do you got. We have every reason to believe they dont have anything. Chris, we play aed a lot of that sound yesterday. Let me make a small distinction here i think is notable. What i am starting to hear from Congressional Republicans on the hill, theyre not calling for the Mueller Investigation shut down. What im hearing more is they
want to hear it concluded soon. Remember, this is not a theoretical exercise. Everyone in the house, a third of the senate, is up for reelection in november. They dont want this to be an october surprise. If its possible to get this done in the fall, that could happen. We see more and more republicans getting more and more tired of talking about this. And more and more optimistic, they hope, it can be done sooner than later. Are you hearing they want donald trump to testify . Theyre pretty careful not to weigh in on that. I think they feel this is the kind of thing that could help bring the investigation to a conclusion. Saying look, if the president s innocent, hes innocent what does he have to be worried about. The key goal as far as Congressional Republicans are concerned, is to get this done so they dont have a comey letter of the week like the 2016 situation coming around in 2018. My panel, ned price, spokesperson for the national
of high stakes investigation and saying something he shouldnt or saying something they would have to clarify later. Most experts, including the president s own team, dont want that to happen. On the other side, at least theyre still talking. What is it that Robert Mueller wants from the president that he cant really get any other way than sitting down facetoface with him . You know, so chris, at first when i heard that bob mueller might be willing to either, you know, reduce the scope of the questions he wants to ask the president or even propose them in writing. I thought that doesnt sound like the bob mueller i worked for. The more i thought about it, i think he may have concluded that its in his tactical interest to, for example, offer some written questions to the president. And heres why. Lets assume that one of the written questions to the president is, did you ask Director Comey to lay off mike
flynn . There are only two answers to that. If the president answers no, bob mueller may very well prove thats a lie and the president has earned himself a crime, false statement, as part of a federal investigation that could earn him up to five years. But what if he says yes, i did. That could be evidence that he committed Obstruction Of Justice. You argue even though facetoface may be preferable and weve heard all the stories about how they could trap him, its not necessarily necessary . You know, its not, and i have a feeling if mueller decides to put these questions in writing and he pushes that sheet of paper across the table figuratively to the defense, they may look at it, push it right back and say well take a pass. The president obviously wants this investigation to end. Republicans as were hearing from Garrett Haake want this investigation to end. But is there any way you see it ending without the president of the United States giving his input, whether its in writing
it doesnt it does not consistent with the principle of no man is above the law and yet that is what were hearing from the president s advisers. What we heard all day from the president s lawyers yesterday was the argument that when he was tweeting about Jeff Sessions, it was just an opinion and the investigation should end again, i dont know, katelyn, did anything they say make any sense . Did they make their case . The fact they had to parse the president s own words several times yesterday i think speaks volumes. It also is important against the backdrop of reporting from the New York Times that Robert Mueller is looking at the president s tweets in this body of evidence and documents in terms of this investigation. The president is obviously upset with Jeff Sessions. Hes made that known over the past several months. This was the first real director. Of Course Rosenstein is in charge of this investigation. The question is Jeff Sessions almost seems to
be used to it, right . Hes almost kind of i dont want to say hes baiting him, hes not. Hes sort of trying in a vague way to respond. When you look at rod rosensteins Public Comments and pea havior, theyre really telling in which in terms of the confidence they have in this investigation, even as the president tries to denigrate them and his entire Justice Department really. You can kind of see where they stand on this. So denigrating his entire Justice Department but also putting his Communications Team in a situation where they have to, frankly, contradict what has been said in the past. I want to play what sean spicer said way back when about the president ial tweets last year. And then Sarah Sanders just yesterday. Are President Trumps tweets considered official white house statements . Well, the president is the president of the United States, so theyre considered official statements by the president of
the United States. Does that tweet this morning change your posture about the president . Its not an order, its the president s opinion. And then, glen, you have Rudy Giuliani saying the president used the word should, not must, as we pointed out. Legally speaking, does the president s tweet carry any weight when it comes to the question of Obstruction Of Justice . Let me tell you how the rules of evidence would apply to the president s tweets. Theres a rule called statement of party opponents. All that is, when we have a defendant in court, anything that defendant said, anything he wrote, anything he tweeted, is considered his statement that the prosecutors can introduce as evidence against him. And whether Sarah Huckabee sanders tries to walk it back or mr. Giuliani tries to walk it back, guess what, those walkbacks are not admissible in a court of law, but the president s tweets are. And they are telling when he says things like, you know, ag
sessions should stop this witch hunt. That sure sounds pretty direct to me. Ned, do you think the president undermined his own case by going after sessions yesterday . Well, hes undermined his own case all along. Hes undermined his case and hes also once again underscored his ignorance of the whole process, going after Jeff Sessions, who is recused from this matter. Look, President Trump has a strategy, a strategy he has followed since the onset of this probe. And that seems to be to get ahead of where this is going. It seems to be a strategy of trying to proactively discredit bob mueller to try to proactively discredit bob muellers team, knowing that this team is working on a report that must likely will be submitted to congress at which Point Congress will have to enter a verdict. What President Trump seems to be doing with all of this, by going after Jeff Sessions, by going after rosenstein, by going after
mccabe, by going after mueller, by going after anyone else who has touched this ongoing criminal probe is to try to make this into an empty vessel before its even completed. So when it is presented to trumps allies in congress, they will just shrug it off. They will say this is the work of bob mueller and his 13 angry democrats, quote unquote. If you look at how Congressional Republicans have responded to these threats with a shrug. That is exactly what President Trump has said all along. Let me ask you really quickly. We heard Rudy Giuliani. I dont want to leave this out. Say yesterday this election is going to be about impeachment or no impeachment. Is he right . Well, republicans are talking a lot about impeachment and congressional races as kind of a boogie man of sorts. Warning their base that if democrats take over the house, theyre going to move to impeach the president. Youve also heard garrett mention republicans on capitol
hill want to get this wrapped up quickly because they dont want it to be an issue. Ive talked to republican campaigns and candidates who are running in this cycle who are echoing the president s own words, evoking the idea this is a witch hunt and they think this kind of rallies their base, that they see themselves as kind of in this fight with the president against the powers that are trying to defy him and his agenda. Saying this is all part of the pr strategy. The strategy to sway public opinion, especially heading into a midterm election. All right, well, fantastic panel. Katelyn, its your birthday, as great as this has been, i hope theres something thats even going to top it later today. Thank you. Happy birthday. Thank you. Happy birthday to you. Ned price, thanks to you guys as well. Come see us on your birthdays as well. Coming up, Paul Manaforts trial, his lavish lifestyle, front and center. We just learned this morning Robert Mueller wants to keep it that way. A live report next. First, late nights jimmy fa ymn on how President Trump is influencing art. An artive recr iviv ivist re trump crossing the swamp. Here. What actually inspired a lot of other artists to make trump inspired versions of other famous paintings. This first one is based on the scream. Its called screaming at the tv when giuliani is on. As you and your rheumatologist consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. Xeljanz xr is a oncedaily pill for psoriatic arthritis. Taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. Dont let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most Wifi Coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. What a development overnight in the bank and Tax Fraud Case against Paul Manafort. Asking the judge to reconsider a decision and let them show the jury photos of manaforts 25,000 suits and other luxury goods. Day three of the trial about to get under way after whats already been two days filled with engrossing details. Prosecutors clashing with the judge and in a surprising even fascinating twist, a major revelation yesterday about a key witness. And, yes, we even got to see the now infamous ostrich jacket. Nbcs intelligence and National Security reporter ken dilanian joins us live. Tell us about your reporting that the prosecution is pushing for the judge to let them show the jury these photos because they had manaforts lavish
lifestyle on full display yesterday. Thats right, chris, good morning. Overnight, the mueller team filed a Brief Arguing that the judge is wrong when he is excluding them from admitting into evidence photos of manaforts lavish lifestyle. There was a photo that the fbi took during the search of his condo of closets full of these expensive suits that they wanted to put in and the judge blocked them. The judge said, look, manaforts not on trial for being rich. His livish lifestyle could be prejudice. Youre seeing there are some pictures of suits that were submitted, but there are many things prosecution sought to admit yesterday that the judge blocked. They wanted to show a picture of his lavish pool house at one of his mansions in the hamptons that he spent 3 million renovating and the reason this is important, chris, all these expenditures was made with money wired from foreign banks in cyprus, that the prosecution
says was set up for the express purpose of manafort evading taxes. He said on his tax returns he did not have Foreign Bank Accounts. This is relevant to show he lied and also relevant to show he needed these funds, he needed to do this bank fraud and tax fraud to support this really lavish lifestyle. He cited a number of cases to support their argument. Now were going to have to see how the judge, whos very sure of his own rulings, reacts to this. I want to ask about the other big highlight from yesterday, the blockbuster that rick gates may not even take the stand . Yes, the jurys really out on that. The prosecutor did raise the possibility that gates wouldnt testify. A lot of people i talked to still think he will. The prosecutions main point is while the defense wants to portray gates as the star witness, the prosecution does
not consider him a star witness. They were prepared to make this case without gates. They indicted manafort and gates together initially. They have two dozen witnesses and hundreds of documents. Their position is, look, this is documents prove this case. Gates is nice to have to lead the jury through this because he was Paul Manaforts righthand man. Hes admitting he participated in some of these fraughts. The prosecution is seeking to rebut this argument that it was all gates fault. And he was responsible for the tax evasion, the bank fraud. In fact, most of the evidence weve seen so far, chris, the witnesses have never even heard of rick gates. These were transactions that were Paul Manafort paid them from Foreign Bank Accounts for luxury goods. I know youll be reporting for us throughout the day from alexandria, thanks, appreciate it. President trump upping the ante in his trade war, threatening new tariffs, china calling it blackmail and vowing to retaliate. The potential impact on you, next. But first, Vice President
pence joining veterans at pearl harbor in hawaii, at a ceremony to receive the presumed remains of solar judge diers killed in n war. What the Trump Administration said was a fulfillment of a pledge made during President Trumps meeting with kim jongun. Identifying the remains could take years. To these Great American heroes, fallen so long ago, today as a nation we breathe a word of thanks for your service and sacrifice. And we say to you as one people with one voice, welcome home. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Since enbrel, dads back to being dad. Visit enbrel. Com and use the joint Damage Simulator to see how your joint damage could be progressing. Ask about enbrel. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 15 years. That would impact 10,000 items traded around the world. The list could grow to target almost 90 of what china sent to the u. S. Last year. That means average americans pay more for groceries, cigarettes, handbags, furniture, you name it. Politico chief economic correspondent and cnbc contributor ben white. So lets start with the bottom line, kayla. For the average american what should they be looking at what can they expect, what can the significance overall be of this . Were looking at the dow dropping right now, down 124, 125. Well, so big companies, chris, that import things that are made in china like handbags for instance or frozen fish, those prices are going to go up at the border if the Trump Administration does decide at the end of august, early september, to more than double these proposed tariffs. Its something the president has asked the agency that is studying these tariffs to look
into. It essentially encapsulates an escalation between the u. S. And china. These trade talks have not been productive. The administration wants stronger tools. And that could play out not only in the Grocery Store and the department store, but also ultimately in the prices that consumers pay for a lot of these goods. Ben, not that a lot of these lobbyists needed any help but this seems to be the full employment act, at least in these various categories. Theres going to be a public hearing in august. Already, the fight later in the month. But give us a sense of whats shaping up to be what seem to be a Battle Royale over this. You see markets dropping essentially because they were hopeful at some point trump and his advisers would hammer out some agreement to lower these tariffs and have china reform some of these practices. Thats not happening. The Trump Administration ratcheting up this rhetoric. 25 on 200 billion, eventually get to 500 billion, thats almost everything china exported to the United States last year. Thats everything consumers buy. Electronics, as kala said. That means the fed might have to raise Interest Rates faster, slow down the economy. Obviously the markets are now taking this more seriously. You know, before this point, theyve basically blown it off. They said this is rhetoric from trump. I think theyre getting nervous we wont get a deal. And this is a real big negative for markets and the economy. Give us a little more specificity. What do we know about why this, why now . What is it thats gotten under the president s skin . We asked that question to Senior Administration officials yesterday. They wouldnt acknowledge a single catalyst. There had been some speculation that chinas devaluation of its curren currency, which would effectively defuse the impact of the tariffs the administration has put into place, that may be something that sparked the president s interest. But at this point its just really a signal there is not the engagement that the market wanted to see. Officials said the president is
willing to talk to his counterpart. Hes willing to talk to president xi. And theyre evaluating whether formal talks in the future at some point would be appropriate. That sort of acknowledges there are no formal talks passed now and there is nothing on the tae table and they need to find a way to get the chinese to the table. They think by charging them more and hitting them where it hurts on trade to a larger degree is going to do it. So American Workers waiting to see what happens. The head of the Retail Federation said tariffs are an unacceptable gamble with the u. S. Economy. And how fast could some of this go into place . Could it have enough of an impact quickly enough that it could affect the outcome of the midterms . It certainly could. Tariffs are taxes and theyre taxes ultimately paid by u. S. Customers. Theyre not paid by china. They go into effect almost immediately. As soon as you have tariffs placed on goods that are exported to the United States,
that immediately goes to consumers that pay higher prices. And wages havent been going up very much. Thats why people are so frustrated with this economy. If you add stagnant wages to higher prices for consumers, that means people are going to be unhappy. Its also manufacturers. Lets not forget about the steel and aluminum tariffs in place from the eu, from china and elsewhere. That means manufacturers, auto companies, paying more. Talking about moving jobs overseas where there arent any tariffs. That is very bad news for republican candidates who want to say look, the economys doing well, were rocking and rolling here. Trump is stomping on that with all these tariffs and making the economic message of republicans much harder to deliver. Yes, stomping on the very industries he campaigned for, on behalf of. When he was running for president. Thanks to both of you. Former president barack obama endorsing 81 candidates in a bid to help the democrats take back control of congress. There are some notable absences from the list. And will his backing really make a difference . But first, reaction pouring in to White House Press secretary Sarah Huckabee sanders who gave life to another old and false antimedia conspiracy from the late 90s, listen. We fully support a free press but there also comes a high levelle of responsibility with that. One of the worst cases was the reporting on the u. S. Ability to listen to osama bin ladens Satellite Phone in the late 90s. Because of that reporting, he stopped using that phone and the country lost valuable intelligence. Thats not true. Its been debunked for more than a decade. The taliban itself, by the way, released information on osama bin ladens phone records two years prior to any report in the u. S. Looking for advantages. The smart ones look to fidelity to find them. We give you research and datavisualization tools to help identify potential opportunities. So, you can do it this way. Or get everything you need to help capture investment ideas
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jackie rosen, new mexico congressional candidate doug hallen. Theres buzz about notable absences. Texas Senate Candidate beta orourke and new york congressional candidate alexandria cortez, not on this list of endorsements. Jonathan allen, National Political reporter for nbc news digital. Great to see both of you. Heres what you wrote, lynn, quote, a democrat endorsing a democratic nominee is routine. What the Obama List Signifies is who obama is going to do something to help in advance of the november midterms. So whats your take on this list . Well, it includes the categories of people but the most important category is that obamas going to some lengths to avoid being a divisive figure within the struggling Democratic Party as it tries to figure out its own future course. And the people so meaning the mainstream, for lack of a better word,
democrats, and the socialists, that fight, hes not going to find himself in the middle of it . He has most of the people on the 81 listed have already been the nominees so theres no controversy there. Some of the in as you mentioned right now, he has the easy out of saying this is just the first batch. So they tried to minimize it. Which i think right now is true because he wants to go where hes helpful. The point is governorships and state legislative bodies. So in that case, dems can have a big hand in remap after the census. Do we assume hes helpful . One of the things i think about is i followed most of his appearances for hillary clinton. In many of the places where he
went, the majority of people were there to see in person. They were not there to back hillary clinton. Obviously, he can make a lot of money. But will going out and being on the Campaign Trail you think help individual candidates help people get to the polls . It could get some people to the polls. Certainly could rally the base. Democratic voters still hold president obama in high regard. That said there is limited utility and value to endorsements. Youre not able to, as president obama, say youre endorsing a candidate, you know, suddenly, you know, Hundreds Of Thousands of people come out who would work to vote for them. I would say in looking at this list and there were some other notable omissions and it gets to this point of whos it going to help. You didnt have joe done nelllye senator. Senator manchin, senator
mccaskill from missouri or senator hidecamp from north dakota. The incumbents in the most competitive races in the country. Obviously barack obama doesnt carry the same weight there that he does in some of the more democrat areas it of course he also makes some endorsements of people who have helped him in the past that are, you know, in marginal races, in places that are more likely to go democratic. Ben rhodes who of course is a former deputy National Security adviser and arguably spent as much, if not more time, than anybody else in the white house with the president. Still, he just got back from being with him in kenya where he did the big speech for Nelson Mandelas birthday. Was on morning joe this morning and he talked about the challenge facing becoe ining ob. Let me play that. Part of the problem we had the late eight years is not enough leaders emerged. Obama took up a lot of space. The clintons took up a lot of space. I think part of his thing is if im out there having this fight, im going to take up the space we need new leaders to step into. Its that balance of how do i not be this guy whos owning the field here. Im doing my part and im telling my part of the story here. But i want to make sure we get some new blood out there. How much of a Balancing Act do you think this is for obama . Well, first of all, ben rhodes still works for obama. Hes a member of his post president ial staff. And that is what he was he was talking about one of the pillars of the obama post presidency is to grow the leadership that he didnt grow when he was in the white house for eight years. Lets look at it that way. Democrats lost seats, state level, local level, National Level and when you it goes way down ballot. It goes to legislative seats. Thats because of the redistricting battles ahead after the 2020 census. So if one pot of postobama
presidency is grow Young Leaders aaron the world, another one is to join with his attorney general, eric holder, in this redistricting organization that theyre involved in, to try and get these State Legislators and governors. And also the other bucket on this list of 81, as you and john know, are some 20 candidates who are just alumni of the Obama White House or this campaign. What do you think, real quickly here, jonathan allen. Hes not going to go out there and say trump, trump, trump, trump, trump. Thats just not who he is. But what will his message be . I think his message to democrats is they have to show up so they can counter the trumps policies. First account of them and then start moving in a general direction. Barack obama left the Democratic Party with its, you know, smallest footprint in this country in history in terms of legislative seats in congress and the presidency having
flipped to republicans. And thats not necessarily a reflection on the american publics feelings about him, but certainly the reaction in some cases to his policies, the inability of democrats beyond him to win elections. I also wonder if just him showing up, just him being there, being barack obama, doesnt send a message to the base, remember what a different kind of presidency looked like, and if thats not motivating, just in and of itself. We shall see. Thank you, lynn, thank you, jonathan, appreciate it. Thank you, chris. Hes called the sandy hook shooting a hoax. Now families say Alex Jones Defamation has horrifying, realworld impact. Will their lawsuit end up holding him accountable . First, pope francis with another groundbreaking change on church teaching, this time on the death penalty. Used to be the Catholic Church allowed Capital Punishment if it was the only possible way to defend human lives. He says the previous policy is outdated. There are now ways to ensure due protection of citizens but at the same time not definitively deprive the guilty of the possibility of redemption. I l. Anncr as you grow older, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. Learning from him is great. When i can keep up anncr thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. Dads got all the answers. Anncr prevagen is now the numberoneselling brain Health Supplement in drug stores nationwide. She outsmarts me every single time. Checkmate you wanna play again . Anncr prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Todays Senior Living communities have never been better, with amazing amenities like movie theaters, exercise rooms
and swimming pools, public cafes, bars and bistros even pet care services. And theres never been an easier way to get great advice. A place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. A place for mom. You know your family we know Senior Living. Together well make the right choice. Families of children and teachers killed at Sandy Hook Elementary are having their day in court, Fighting Conspiracy Theer Rists and intowars radio host, alex jones, they argue his lies added unspeakable hardship to what was already unfathomable heartbreak. The texas case filed by two of the families charges that jones claims the massacre was a hoax has caused them to be tormented and harassed and even on the Receiving End of Death Threats. According to the New York Times, those threats and Online Harassment forced one of the families to move seven times. Far from where their child is buried. Jones lawyers yesterday argued for the case to be dismissed and he has 30 days to decide. Elizabeth williamson is a reporter who was in the courtroom yesterday. This is such a tragic story the way you lay it out. Tell us first of all, what was significant that went on inside
the courtroom yesterday. Can you hear me . I think were going to take a quick break and come back with this story right after this. The line between work and life hasnt just blurred. Its gone. Thats why you need someone behind you. Not just a card. An entire support system. Whether visiting the Airport Lounge to catch up on whats really important. Or even using those hardearned points to squeeze in a Little Family time. No one has your back like american express. So no matter where youre going. Were right there with you. The powerful backing of american express. Dont do business without it. Dont live life without it. Are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi. . A more powerful way to stay connected. It gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most Wifi Coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. Its the ultimate wifi experience. Xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. Were back talking about a Texas Court Case that pits the families of the victims of the sandy hook shooting against the Info Wars Radio Host and conspiracy theorist alex jones. Joining me, let me set the stage first elizabeth, you write in heartbreaking detail about noah posner one of the victims moms who moved seven times because of threats because of harass. And what alex jones did. She says quote, i would love to go to see my sons grave and i dont get to do that but we made the right decision. Talk a little more about whats at the heart of this case and what is the argument that these families are making . Sure, this is the first of the cases to reach a courtroom. There are three separate cases, two here in texas and one in connecticut that involve a total of eight victims families. The posner family now lives hundreds of miles away from newtown where the shooting occurred. And you know and the region where their son noah posner was buried. He was 6 years old. They have been subject to all
types of harassment, including Death Threats for which a woman was jailed last year for five months as a condition of her parole, she was ordered by a judge never to consume info wars programming again, thats of course the company that alex jones operates. So you kind of layout a key question thats at the heart of this legally. Emotionally youre obviously heart goes out to the families but speaking publicly about the killing of a child turn the childs parents into public figures, making it more difficult for them to win their Defamation Case . Can you help us understand that . Sure. Well, chris, the thing here, you have to separate out if you are the judge, you have to separate out the emotional part as you say, the heartbreak of all of this from the legal aspect. This is a First Amendment case. So what alex jones is saying is that his right to free speech protects him. His lawyer made the point in the
courtroom yesterday that this is fringe speech and that this might even be dangerous speech but it is protected under the constitution. What the families are trying to say is surely it cant be the kind of speech that protects someone who issues false claims, who spreads false theories about the shooting of their son that causes people to pursue them and as we say in our piece, that cause this particular family to have to move seven different times. Each time that they move, you know, their information is published online and people track them down again. This you know, their lawyers say was initiated by mr. Jones himself in that he published and there was an audible gasp in the courtroom yesterday when the attorneys for the posner family made the point that he put maps to the familys home online
after they succeeded in getting a videotape on the sandy hook hoax taken down from his website. And during his divorce, his lawyer said hes playing a part, nothing like an online persona. Even if thats true, does that the matter if the net effect is that by perpetuating this hoax, it has caused this pain and suffering and very real world consequences for these families . Yeah, his attorneys have characterized him in these various cases in his custody case, he was a type of performance artist. Now hes being characterized as a type of journalist. What would protect him to a greater degree is if they can establish that this was opinion and not he was presenting these things as opinion and not statements of fact. But of course, the lawyers for the families are endeavoring to say, no, he presents this material as fact. And so consequently, he would be