Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Kendis Gibson 20190914

An investigation, preparing to decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment. And Felicity Huffmans jail sentence in the university bribing scandal raises questions now about judicial quality in americ equality in a moment. And President Trumps Justice Department. Court filings show the doj is blocking the Judiciary Committees request for Robert Muellers undermines evidence from the russia investigation. Justice Department Officials argue the democrats incoherent messages on the impeachment inquiry is actually the reason why chairman nadler says his intentions are clear. Weve been very clear for the last several months in court filings, in public statements and in proceedings in the committee that we are, in fact, conducting an investigation, preparing to decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment to the house. This is another instance of the Trump Administration trying to cover up and hide from congress and to the American People in this case from congress, because the American People wouldnt gr kinds of information. A total of 135 house lawmakers who are now in favor of holding an Impeachment Vote or starting an inquiry. Meantime, what was the president s reaction . Here it is. Another weekend. So as such the president is visiting another golf course. Right now. In northern virginia. Before hitting the links, though, he took to twitter insisting that hes a very stable genius. Nbcs Kelly Odonnell is at the white house with how the administration is responding. Kelly kwhash kelly, what are you hearing there . Reporter the president pushed back using twitter complaining about democrats action on this and say, you would expect from the president , rejected the notion of impeachment defending his work on all of the various parts of his administration. What you would expect. Top advisers here critical of democrats saying the summer of investigation, inquiry and some highprofile witnesses namely john dean, from the watergate era, they called that a dud. Kellyanne conway, the counselor to the president was expressing that, and what we have seen is some disagreement within the Democratic Party about how to go forward with this. Those democrats who are from swing districts where the president may have carried that district in 2016 but a democrat won the house seat, theyre concerned about pursuing this when, in fact, there is a chance to remove the president from office at the ballot box. So there are some differing views. You heard from chairman nadler, who believes that continuing to investigation is the right move, and nancy pelosi has been utterly frustrated by what she has said are some of the semantic debates about this saying that the investigation and gathering of evidence continues, but were still not near an kwhul actual impeachmen inquiry or a point theres would be a fullon impeachment set of hearings and so on. So republicans seized on this perception of a muddled message. Democrats pushing back insisting its not muddled at all. Theyre doing the work and gathering the evidence. It is the kind of thing from the perspective of where you stand and what you hope the outcome is, people are arguing this case differently. Certainly for the president , there are two sides to this. If any president is put through an impeachment process or even the talk, the repeated, relentless talk of impeachment, that the nots good politically but the same time, republicans will use that trying to batter democrats, try to use it as a part of coalescing the president s base for the reelection campaign, and democrats, of course, are finding different vulnerabilities in a range of areas, and a list of different topics that go beyond the Mueller Investigation that you cited looking for ways to explore and investigate avenues that relate to the Trump Administration, the president s conduct and other things from the administration, whether it goes to the president s potential profit, the emoluments clause because of his business as well as his own conduct as president and one of the big issues as the fall as congress is back and working. One of the real tests will democrats stand united in this as you pointed out 135 house members are pushing for it, but its not yet a unified voice, a very strong voice, but where will it play out . Certainly the next steps are slogging away at some of these case elements of this. Doing the investigative work and filing the various types of litigation to try to push this forward. Kendis . Yeah. Democrats only back on capitol hill for a week now, and kind of getting whiplash with all the investigations. Kelly odonnell at the white house good to see you. Overseas following breaking news out of the middle east and it could have a huge impact on you and me. This explosion and fire at two saudi facilities the result were told of a drone attack. The wall street journal reporting the oilrich nation shut down half of its Oil Production already. The yemen rebels are claiming spontd for the attack responsr the attacks. Go right now overseas to nbc news Foreign Correspondent sarah harman who joins us from london. What are you hearing about this attack . Reporter hi, kendis. This was a predawn attack at the heart of saudi arabias oil industry. Both facilities owned by saudias aramco, saudi arabias stateowned giant. It sparked an enormous blaze and Authorities Say this fire is now under control but we dont know the extent of the damage. Nasa put out satellite imagery showing you can actually see some of the smoke from space, and kendis, you mentioned, Yemens Houthi rebels claimed responsibility for the attack. Saudi arabia fighting with Houthi Rebels over four years now in what is essentially a proxy war with iran. If this attack was, in fact, carried out by the houthis it would represent a significant escalation in the sophistication of their attacks inside saudi arabia. And, meantime, you know, the big concern, if the reports in the wall street journal are kreshgt and t corrected and the saudis did shut down half their Oil Production, quite significant. Saudi still puts out about 5 of the worlds oil . Reporter youre exactly right, kendis. The big question i think a lot of people are going to ask is what does this mean for the Global Oil Supply . Saudi arabia is the world many largest exporter, and this is an attack thats really striking at the heart of the saudi economy is. We have reached out to saudi aramco to get more information about its severity of the damage, potential impact on production and are awaiting response. The wall street journal report you mentioned it does say to the tune of about 5 Million Barrels a wall street journal report. We havent matched it yet, but as soon as we do, if and when we do well let you know. Many predicting oil prices will indeed go up over the next few days and weeks. See how long this plays out. Thanks to sarah harmen in london and keep keep an eye on this. Meantime, staying in the region generally, reports this afternoon of the death of one of Osama Bin Laden sons in a military operation. Hamza bin laden a highranking member of the al qaeda but his death had been reported by the New York Times back in july. Now a new statement from the white house is confirming the original report that hamza bin laden was killed in a Counter Terrorism operation and the pakistan region, the loss of hamza bin laden not only deprives al qaeda of important leadership skills, and the symbolic connection to his father but undermines important operational activities of the group. The white house statement there on the death of bin ladens son. Turning out to the separate controversy away from washington. Over actress Felicity Huffmans lenient sentencing, many saying it confirms the Justice System has different rules for different people. The december prisperate housew only spending 14 days behind prison. One of a dozen wealthy people going to trial for this. Just for context, i should point out she was paid 390,000 per episode doing desperate housewives. 30,000 fine, j juxtaposition there. And does the sentence go far enough is the question . What do you hear . Reporter kendis, really a lot of people have been watching this case closely. Across the country youre right. Its reigniting over and over when it comes to the criminal Justice System. Is there indeed equal justice . Start and talk about what happened in the court yesterday. First, Felicity Huffman is the first of nearly 30 parents set to face punishment in the college scandala lot of people watching closely to see exactly what type of punishment she would receive. Inside the courtroom yesterday Felicity Huffman was emotional. She spoke to a judge, addressed the court tearful at times and said she was very remorseful. Also has a written statement ill read to you a piece from. A e i accept the courts decision today without reservation. There are no excuses or justifications for my actions, period. I would like to apologize to my daughter, my husband, my family and the Educational Community for my actions, and i especially want to apologize to the students who work hard every day to get into college and to their parents who make tremendous sacrifices supporting their children. Kendis, certainly res for million inside of the courtroom. Remember, she is someone who paid 15,000 to inflate her daughters s. A. T. Score. Now, theres also going to be cascading of more sentences and more cases to come to see exactly how many other parents will do this. And getting a lot of backlash for this but it highlights for many the disparities in the j judicial system we have. A federal crime and received some 14 days and recalling a case back here in new york for burk lar bar burglaries at rikers. Once out committed suicide. A specific case out of ohio. This happened several years ago, and a woman, a single africanamerican woman, she was initially sentenced to five years in prison for essentially lying and saying she was staying at her fathers house, using her fathers address when it came to her sons application for Elementary School and in 2009 the district found shep was actu she lived in a nearby housing project. At the time charged with two felonies. The sentence knocked down to serve ten days from prison, three years probation and Community Service but a lot of people hold those two cases up against each other. You have, of course, Felicity Huffman, one of the wealthy parents, a celeb versus the woman seeking a better education for her child and we heard from her attorney, who said that if in is fairness, just punishment we should not put this woman in jail letting the Felicity Huffmans of the world go free. One other point to point out about this. A lot of people on twitter, john legend speaking out about this. You know hes been very outspoke whn it comes to criminal justice and the system tweeting i get why everyone gets mad when a rich person gets a short sentence and poor person of color gets a long one. The answer isnt for x to get more for both to guess less or even none. We should level down. Not up. Valid point. Well said by john legend. Thanks to you. Coming up right here, the bahamas. Bracing for a new storm. Tropical storm humberto threatening the region just devastated two weeks ago this weekend by hurricane dorian. Watching the possible impacts as well on the United States. Lawmakers calling on President Trump to adopt tougher background checks for gun sales. Will the president play ball . More on this, ahead. More on this, ahead. Jimmys gotten used to his whole room smelling like sweaty odors. Yup, hes gone noseblind. He thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this. Luckily for all your hardtowash fabrics. 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And while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. Fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. Maybe thats why most of our clients come from other money managers. Fisher investments. Clearly better money management. Back with a new Tropical Storm threat in the sayre area as the storm that hit the bahamas. Expected to hit bahamas this weekend with sustained winds at 50 miles an hour. Highest risk there. Point of reference, where abaco is, very much hardhit. The Tropical Storm is not expected to produce significant storm surge but will no doubt put a crimp on all efforts to try to locate the more than 1,300 people unaccounted for. It is not expected to make landfall here in the United States. Top story, the drumbeat for itch peachment proceedings against the president. The i word coming up again. In favor of Impeachment Vote or inquiry. Comes as Trumps Justice Department is trying to block the Judiciary Committee from reviews the underlying evidence gathered in Robert Muellers russia investigation. So the question many wonder, cou what impact could this have for the president s bid for the white house in 2020 . Joining me, democratic strategists. Thank you for being with us. Should the democrats focus on 2020 or continue to push for this whole impeachment thing . You can do both, i think. Depends, of course, how you do it. You know, i think lets be honest. Congress has an oversight responsibility. The house has an oversight responsibility. Pursuing and investigating the president is within their p purview and they should pursue. If the talk of impeachment becomes the primary focus of the media, the public, at the expense, i think, of the issues that will end up defining this next election, which is health care, the economy, income inequality, guns, race issues, things i think people are focusing on more and more, you can do both. Depends how you balance it. Matt, pick up on that. You get a sense even though the president is tweeting about impeachment, just yesterday morning saying how can you impeach him when hes been successful in his words. You get a sense the Republican Party wants the democrats to go into this and start this process . Yeah. I mean, to be honest im not sure i understand what the House Democratic position is, depends which member you ask whether they have actually started impeachment inquiry or not. Everyone has their own definition. Its clear Speaker Pelosi doesnt want to call it impeachment inquiry and chairman nadler does. A bit of a difference in their leadership. The challenge democrats have is that, you know, proceeding with impeachment is possible among the base. You rightly noted 134 of their members more than half support it. The problem is, receipts they need to hold to keep the majority. 31 seats with democratic members of congress to trump, only two on list of 134. There majority makers, their swing district members do not want this. Its not popular. Thats what pelosi understands, and so shes sort of standing in between what the base wants and what she thinks her conference needs. I agree with you, though. I think republicans would like to see impeachment go forward because we think its a political loser and rally republicans behind trump and the public wont support it. Interesting. Matt mentioned there, chris. There are about some 31 House Democrats or so who ran in what were formally red districts, at least in 2016. You were the former chief of staff for the democratic senator joe manchin of the red state, of course, of West Virginia. Are you kind of seeing that constituents in those red districts increasingly supporting President Trump . I dont think we know yet. Depends, for example, on what the inquiry and the investigation finds. I mean if they find clear evidence of wrongdoing its going to be hard for republicans and obviously democrats to ignore that. But, i mean in here the big but challenge. The challenge, if democrats spend the next 12 months talking about impeachment, and process instead of talking about the daytoday issues that define voters concerns i think there could be some damaging political consequences. Whether that benefits the president or republicans is not clear. To be honest, its not like they have a really strong message and whenever something happens, the president seemingly steps on it, anyway. So i think part of the challenge here is to what extent over the coming months do we focus effectively on the other issues that matter. If its only about impeachment, it could become a political problem. Matt, nodding in approval. Why . Yeah. I mean, i think chris, the point hes making. One of the greatest frustrations House Democrat have is their agenda is not breaking through. Its not getting traction. Impeachment and the debate internally is driving the news up on capitol hill. Its not whatever bill theyre considering on whatever issue. So, what, nine months in to them taking bact house is do voters feel like having control of the house has nid a difference in their lives . Pursuing impeachment doesnt help a person paper their bills or get through their day. Its a political task. Until you have majority of the country supporting it than opposes it, occurring at a time when taking oxygen and attention away from the agenda the democrats want to focus on chbts intere. Interesting, the see therehour debate thursday did not come up. Top tier candidates on the stage. Thanks to you, matt and chris. Thank you, gentlemen. A line that may haunt the Democratic Party for years. Did beto orourke sink dems chances of getting gun reform legislation passed anytime soon . Hell, yes, were going 0 it take your ar15, your a ak47. K Award Winning interface. Award winning design. Award winning engine. The volvo xc90. Our most awarded luxury suv. Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. I wish i could shake your hand. Granted. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Yesss, im doing it all. The water. The exercise. The fiber. Month after month, and i still have belly pain and recurring constipation. So i asked my doctor what else i could do, and i said yesss to linzess. Linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation. Linzess is not a laxative, it works differently. It helps relieve belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. 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Or symptoms such as fevers,. Sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs. Or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. I feel free to bare my skin. Visit skyrizi. Com. We are starting a new series on Climate Change. Growing concerns about the climate and the impact already felt in the northern most regions of the world. Climate change is taking its toll on a years long cold weather tradition. Dogsledding. Huskies in norway now hooked up to four wheelers. That is odd. Nbcs Kevin Tibbles has the story as part of our in depdep series titled climate of crisis. Reporter just 600 miles from the north pole and these hearty huskies are raring to go. These two are going over the line. Reporter here in the norwegian ark apello, living sidebyside with sled dogs, reindeer and the occasional polar bear preparing for winter and frigid 24hour days of darkness. How many dogs do you have . 114. Reporter sled dog operators like this are passionate about their job and their actic culture, you go into nature with these guys its just quiet. You only hear footprints in the snow and skis of the sled, its completely silent. Reporter but also aware his world is warming. Winter comes later and leaves earlier each year. That means instead of using a sled and running in the snow, the dogs, six to a team, are hooked up to a fourwheeled wagon for a tour of the tundra. Even the old tradition of dogsledding is jeopardized by Climate Change. Reporter while the dogs seem happy to pull anything others in this isolated northern corner notice the climate is changing and worried. Steve hudson hails from philadelphia. He now studies weather patterns in the arctic. Cause for alarm in your view . Its a picture of whats coming. Things are happening faster here. We knew they would happen faster here but were seeing whats happening and the rest of the worlds going to catch up. Reporter the people here have a warning for the rest of the world. Do you feel like youre a little bit of a canary in a coal mine here . In a way. We get the strongest impact from it and its already happening, and we are trying to make the world aware of this. Reporter for centuries the dogsled represented the only way people here could travel. The only way to reach the outside porworld. Going to be hard if snow disappears. Reporter today Climate Change they fear caused by the outside world will change the way they live forever. Forever changing. Kevin tibbles, thanks to you. Starting tomorrow on nbc news we begin a special weeklong series climate in crisis our Team Offering in depthth looks affecting the environment. Todays lincoln rilharr al ro glaciers. Catch his story on all nbc channels this week. And coming up, president s power in ways the country has never been seen, and that many say is outside the law. A new report details how the Democratic Candidates may want to do something no president has ever done. Shrink president ial power. Thats next. Later, the video of outraged members of state legislature, angry at protests after republicans did what many call a dirty trick. On september 11th no less. You have to see the video and hear the story. Thats coming up. And getting h. All i had to take care of was making sure that my daughter was ok. If i met another veteran, and they were with another insurance company, i would tell them, you need to join usaa because they have better rates, and better service. Were the gomez family. Were the rivera family. Were the kirby family, and we are usaa members for life. Get your Auto Insurance quote today. Over. Hey, want to try it . Ok here you go. Over. Under. Hey whoa, pop, pop. Your shoes untied. Ensure hes well taken care of, even as you build your own plans for retirement. 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The saudi government backing the Yemen Government fight against rebels and of course if they cut Oil Production has to have somewhat impact on all oil pricess well keep an eye on this situation thats evolving in the middle east. Now back here in the u. S. And to the debate in this country. About guns. Today the mothers march to End Gun Violence is under way in st. Louis and hail as horrible headline. 3yearold boy reportedly found a loaded handgun and shot himself in the head according to officials there on the ground. This year alone at least 23 People Killed by gunfire in st. Louis alone. Majority since the spring. While oerganizers are gathering to talk reasonable gun legislation, washington remains in limbo. The president touched on this in baltimore but where the president stand on the issue is very much unclear. Joining me now, nbcs Mike Viqueira on the ground in baltimore and, mike, many wondering about the question and who knows where does the president and the administration stand right now on guns . Reporter well, its a moving target. Youre right, kendis. People on both sides of this debate, people who favor gun rights or favor gun control and restrictions on background checks in particular want to know exactly where the president stands. Mitch mcconnell, the leader, majority leader, republican leader in the senate said it out loud a couple times now including this week after coming back from their august recess. Hes waiting to see what the president will support. The president , of course, after parkland, backed background checks. He backed away from that after pressure from the nra and the Republican Base. As tragedies of el paso and dayton again supported background checks. Appears to be backing away from that now. The president said on thursday he had a big meeting with a lot of advisers to go over the options. Its known he talked to three senators pushing for background checks. Pat toomey of pennsylvania, joe manchin of West Virginia and significantly, connecticut home of the unspeakable tragedy of 157bdy ho y sandy hook. No word what the president wants to do. Play you a clip from thursday, speaking to reporters on his way to baltimore to speak here to the house republicans. I think we made some Good Progress on background checks and guns. Are you going to support background checks . Yes or no . I think so. Depends really on the democrats. Depends on whether or not the democrats want to take your guns away because theres a possibility that this is just a ploy to take your guns away, or whether or not its femeaningfu. If its meanalful well make a deal. Okay. So a lot ofbiguityambiguity, ke. Background checks, for Mental Health history of people who want to buy guns . What venue . Gun shows, online . Gun store, person to person sales . Now a second clip speaking to an annual retreat the same day. Democrats want to confiscate guns from lawabiding americans. So theyre totally defenseless when somebody walks into their house with a gun. Republicans will forever uphold the fundamental right to keep and bear arms. [ applause ] reporter so, kendis, right back where we started. We dont know where the president stands on background checks, where he stands on gun legislati legislation. Still deciding, a lot of pressure to back away. Feeling approaching an election year, any move towards a background check or characterize as gun control will depress the Republican Base, turnout and help democrat fls in 2020 . Even though 80 of the Republican Base are in support of new legislation for background checks. On the harbor in baltimore, thank you. The democrat candidates for president frequently cited President Trumps abuse of power as reason to remove him from office. The president claimed his power to declare tariffs on china and canada are based on a National Security threat, his power to move billions to the border are embarrassed on a president ial state of emergency. There is a new survey out of 2020 democratic hopefuls and found that many of those running for president wonant to rein in the powers of the president because of trumps actionsjoining me, an msnbc contributor charlie savage. You conducted the surray. Get to you. Give me the rundown and purpose exactly of conducting this survey . Youve done it in the past. Right. The fourth time dating back to 2007 that ive asked president ial candidates to weigh in and explain to voters their understanding of the scope and limits of the president ial powers that they would wield if elected before Voters Decide whom to entrust with the presidency. This cycle i had a lot of questions on the same issues. When can you go to war without congress . And when cant you . How far does secrecy power extend . Can you hold americans without trials, shes issues roaring the last 20 years and added a large section of potential posttrump reforms. A lot of chatter whether if trump is defeated in 2020, all these previous norms of president ial selfrestraint hes violated, like not releasing his taxes, not divesting from his holdings hiring close family members for white house positions and invoking emergencies that isnt really an emergency, not really what the law is intended for and on and on and on, these were not legal barrier whats he was doing, just previous president s didnt use the powers that way. They had selfrestraint. Discussion if defeated congress will pass new legislation to try to tighten down those rules as laws. In the same way that after watergate and vietnam and the Church Committee in the 70s, a period of reform of executive power during the ford and carter administrations. So a lot of these it president ial candidates agreed that they would sign into law, they would tie their own hands, new legal restrictions on executive power on a lot of these topics, yet on some places seem to be more split. In particular i think the notion, its easy to say, yes, all president s should be required to release tax returns, not hire family, relatives for white house jobs, more disagreement whether or not to curtail president s emergency powers. Who are the ones that surprised you . Elizabeth warren has a plan for pretty much everything. A lot of those plans entail executive action. From the responses you got, who surprised you . So i mean, theres been confusion about that youre right a lot of the president ial candidates have said, well im going to issue executive orders on this, that, the other thing and the notion maybe an executive order per se is an expression of executive hauer without thinking about what kind of power that is being invoked. Remember, beginning of trumps presidency he issued a ton of executive orders that didnt do anything. Directed the executive branch to study this or that issue, and the issue of an executive order is not, doesnt tell you whether thats an extraordinary power or not. I do think it was significant that some candidates including joe biden, who spent eight years in the executive branch as Vice President did seem to have caution about some of the things. He did not think even though agrees trump abused his power with the wall for emergency spending, and with some of the appointments hes made temporarily he did not think a good idea to tie a future president s curtailing their hands for emergency circumstances. Interesting because joe biden of all Democratic Candidates the only one that has worked there in the oval office. Closer with the president. And President Trump, you know, issued more executive actions than any of his predecessors, b egregious. Look at the numbers. Why all the hubbub now . First of all, you cannot measure it by raw numbers like that. Okay airpor. I mentioned earlier dozens upon dozens in his opening to president and with the exception of the travel ban, all totally ecac uous ant did nothi ouous a. You cant really look at that. He could brag. The invocation of National Security power to wage his trade war saying that canada and canadian steel somehow poses a National Security threat to the United States, lets him get around restrictions on tariffs and power to spend more on the border wall than congress was willing to spend. Things like that that seems hes taking power that existed in theory because Congress Left president s with wide degrees of latitude to deal with extra gent circumstances and using it for political and purposes not intended to be used, and that is going to, prompted a rethinking of whether it is a good idea to give president s this much latitude, because it can be abused. Fascinating. Fascinating findings there in your survey, charlie. Appreciate it and appreciate you being here. From the New York Times. Thanks to you. Coming up right here, republicans in North Carolina legislature told democrat theres would be no votes during the september 11th memorial, the democrats did as expected. Believed them. But the republicans then had democratic legislatures outraged. You see one of them angry right there, one of those members who says democracy was trampled on. She will join me, next. You shall not do this you shall not do this to democracy in North Carolina, mr. Speaker r Johnson Johnson is a baby company. But were also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. From the day youre born we never stop taking care of you. Its my special friend, antonio. His luxurious fur calms my nerves when im worried about moving into our new apartment. Why dont we just ask geico for help with renters insurance . 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The amount of Student Loan Debt i have im embarrassed to even say i felt like i was going to spend my whole adult life paying this off thanks to sofi, i can see the light at the end of the tunnel as of 12pm today, i am debt free not owing anyone anything is the best feeling in the world, i cannot stop smiling about it okay. This is interesting. Just when you thought gerrymandering or voter i. D. Were dirty tricking north carolinians say hold my beer and scheduled a surprise vote. Process you shall not do this you shall not do this to democracy in North Carolina, mr. Speaker how dare you do this, mr. Speaker we have a minute left. I will not yield not going to let i will not yield mr. Speaker i will not yield there is no reason you shall not usurp the process, mr. Speaker how dare you subject this body to trickery, deceptive practices, hijacking the process we have been here day and night for months defending what we believe, and you would submit this body to trickery, deception, deceit . It is so typical of the way you conduct yourselves how dare you, mr. Speaker this is what democracy looks like in North Carolina. This past week. So what happened . Well, what the raleigh news and observer called a shameless theft of democracy. The longer story is this past wednesday, of course, september 11th, 9 11, while the governor and some democratic lawmakers were commemorating the anniversary of the attacks North Carolina republicans called for a surprise vote to override the governors budget veto with only 64 of the houses 120 members present, that override did pass, 559. Democrats claimed they were told they would be, no vote, so they didnt need to be there. A different story for republicans who the observer newspaper reports were sent a text by the republican leader to be in their seats by 8 30. House speaker called for a vote representative you see there, rose to object, but yot recognized by the speaker. Republicans attempted to turn off her microphone and she kept speaking switching microphones to find one that did work. Bravo to you. Joined by the representative. Deb butler. Shes continued to speak out. Several days. I see you were clearly fired up and understandably there. How shady was this from your perspective . This move that took place . Ive never seen anything like it, kendis. I mean it is an affront to each and every citizen of North Carolina. Its an affront to democracy. It is the worst display ive ever seen and ive been on this earth a while. Take us back how this played out. Once again, you were told there would be no votes at all taking place on this wednesday. The republicans received a text saying there will be a vote, while in meantime, many democratic lawmakers who are parttime workers there at the legislature were off doing other things . You know, we are a parttime legislature. We make very little money per year. It is become a fulltime job honestly. North carolina has a 22 billion budget and its probably time to make us a fulltime legislature. Our time is precious. People do, there are other jobs. Tend to their families. They sneak in a medical appointme appointment. It is, again the way we function. Yeah. North carolina, as you know, into stranger political controversies i should mention. Do you get a sense this kind of move is unique to your state, you called it, the republicans even tried to strip the powers of the new democratic governor, roy moore, or roy cooper, rather, after he won election . Whats going on there . You know, these folks, these republicans have had total authority thanks sew illegal gerrymandering and extraordinary dollars spent. They have the process, its just been, in North Carolina just awful. From the day i got there, share this with you, kendis. I spoke out as a loud voice in our hb2 debate you may or may not recall the notorious bathroom bill and when i did that as a Freshman Legislature my office was relocated to a windowless dungeon. Called it the harry potty stairwelstai potter stairwell. Thats the kind of venom were talking about. The better part of a decade and quite frankly, north carolinians are sick of it and thats what you saw first hand. Yes. And the person we should mention who penned that bathroom bill was just awarded with a congressional seat this past tuesday in the election held there. Take me through this moment. You find out about this vote. You get up there, and you start speaking out. Give me a sense of the emotions and what its going through your mind at this point as we look at you there . You know, im one of the democratic whips, kendis. Its my job to make sure that my my charges are informed of whats going on, and i have asked them over the course of the last year to be in their seats, to avoid medical appointments, to skip family gatherings, to really be dedicated, and they have done that over and over for months. Through this long, hot summer. I could just see their hard work and commitment being stolens they couldnt meet us fair and square, kendis. We had them on the votess tried to bribe us, catch us with our pants down. Done every shady trick in the book and we have held firm. So what happens next . Yeah. Well, i dont know. You know, i called for the speaker to resign because if thats leadership, if thats the kind of person you think should lead the North Carolina house of representatives, i dont i dont think many north carolinians do either. So ive called for his resignation. I doubt ill get it. The other thing, we are redrawing our illegally gerrymandered districts right now. If people want to help, help see me, i mean want North Carolina turned around go to the website and help with a donation. I will crisscross this state in a bus if i have to do make people aware of whats happened in North Carolina. People are frustrated all over this country because their elected representatives are not listening to them and dont have to because theres too mup money in politics and statistically gerrymandered out of their districts. Thats what happened in the mccready race. Im sorry. And it is something that i understand. Youre fired up about all this and understandably so. Many other lawmakers in other states have been trying to do similar tactics. This is an interesting one there, but pulled it on september 11th. I recommend dont make plans for thanksgiving or new years. Got you. I wont. Ill eat turkey in my seat, kendis, if i have to. That indeed. North carolina representative deb butler, thank you very much for being here. Thank you, sir. Keep fighting. Coming up, President Trump clashes with one of his top Foreign Policy advisers of iran. What led to john boltons abrupt departure from the white house . E ernie lost rubber duckie . burke you mean this one . ernie rubber duckie cookie what about a broken cookie jar . burke again, cookie . cookie yeah. Me bad. grover yoooooow oh what about monsters having accidents . I am okay by the way burke depends. Did you cause the accident, grover . grover cause an accident . Maybe. bert how do you know all this stuff . burke just comes with experience. all muppets yup. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum now, theres skyrizi. I have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. 3 out of 4 people achieved. 90 clearer skin at 4 months. After just 2 doses. Skyrizi may increase your risk of infections. And lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection. Or symptoms such as fevers,. Sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs. Or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. I feel free to bare my skin. Visit skyrizi. Com. Time really is money. So, dont wait to get the internet your business really needs. Switch to comcast Business Today for a special offer on the services you need to make your business boom. Like speed to power all your devices, more complete internet reliability. And an advanced voice solution. Its time to make the switch to comcast business and take your business beyond fast. Dont miss out on this limited time offer. Call 18005016000 today. Good afternoon, everyone. Im Kendis Gibson live on msnbc World Headquarters in new york. New nbc news reporting about what led President Trump to fire his National Security adviser john bolton. Republicans running for president against donald trump. Uniting. Now attacking their own party for backing trump. And the administration is blocking democrats attempts to get information for what appears to be a growing impeachment inquiry. Well get to that in a second but begin now with that new report about why President Trump reportedly lost his temper with National Security adviser john bolton. Briefly before his abrupt exit from the white house. Nbc news has now learned that just hours before bolton was fired, President Trump raised the possibility of lifting some sanctions on iran. Of course, you know, that was one of the contentious issues between these parties sometimes. Not only iran, also north korea and many others. Negotiating tool, by the way, bolton strongly disagreed with, and theyve had plenty disagreements over time and john bolton saying while he was not fired by the white house himself, he said that he resigned on his own merit, and while the president has spoken up quite a bit about all of this, it appears that bolton says he will speak his piece in due time. Whether or not thats a book deal or not is unclear, but, again, the big reporting were getting from nbc news is that just monday the president and john bolton his National Security advisers, who have had disagreements before, they met facetoface in the white house, got into a disagreement. Our sources telling nbc news that it got so intense and heated during that disagreement that the president , according to our reporting lost his temper and hours later as you know, john bolton was out. Very unexpectedly. We expected him at one point to be there on Tuesday Morning at a press conference, but just 90 minutes before that press conference was scheduled, all of a sudden we got the word, no. In fact, the National Security advisers resigned. Who will take his place next . A lot of people saying perhaps it will be mike pompeo, but Kelly Odonnell at the white house for us now, kelly, the president has kind of throwing water on that whole issue of possibly having mike pompeo be secretary of state as well as National Security adviser . Reporter definitely. A chance to talk to the president when he left the white house to go to baltimore for his comments at a republican lawmaker retreat, and he was asked that question and he said he discussed it with mike pompeo one of the most prominent members of the cabinet and demonstrating one of the closest relationships with the president now and said he and pompeo discussed it and pompeo did not think that was the best fit and that he even used the word decided as if pompeo made the decision and later said he and the president , rather the president and the secretary of state agreed that it would be good to have someone in that role. Imagine, though it would likely be someone who would be in the mold of pompeo in terms of being someone compatible to work with him on the same page and so forth. Really, the jobs are so enormous. Even though there is a historical Reference Point for having one and the same and that goes back to nixon and ford where Henry Kissinger worked in those two positions. The world is big, complex, and certainly in the trump universe, there are many positions that are not as fully filled in this universe of the modern politics, and so it would make sense in many ways to see someone in that role and especially just given all of the competing interests and the hot burner issues the president has to deal with. Who could be there . The president said there were 15 names on the list, bumped it up dramatically claiming everybody wants the job. Thats classic trump hyperbole. Also saying probably about 5 contenders. Among them we have seen a handful of names that have come to pass including people already in the administration or working closely with the president. Theres keith kellogg, National Security advisers to the Vice President. Rick ren nell, serving as ambassador to germany who is in washington right now. Tom bossert, previously Homeland Security adviser to the president is out of the administration now. Rick waddell, whos been a part of the administration and a part of the National Security apparatus. Matt pottenger a part of the National Security council and one of the advisers. A number of names of people who could step into that role. One of the big questions, how soon will we learn this . The president sometimes will tell us he is going to have an announcement quickly and then the clock ticks and ticks and ticks and we dont have a name. There is certainly an urgency, kendis, because the president goes to the United Nations General Assembly in new york coming up in just a little over a week, and so that is one of the high stakes meetings for the president where he always addresses the General Assembly and has hinted very broadly that its possible he could have a meeting with irans president rouhani. That would be high stakes on the level we saw with kim jongun in the president s multiple meetings with the north korean regime leader. Is that a possibility . Certainly when it comes to john bolton now out at National Security advisers, so much a part of tension between the president and bolton and that relationship because bolton such a hardliner on iran and some of nbc news reporting is that one of the real fraying points at the very end of that relationship was the president saying in a meeting monday he would consider consider lessening some of the sanctions against iran. Something iran wants very much, in order to move forward with conversations. The white house has plainly said the president would meet with rouhani without precondition. Not saying it will happen but it is a possibility. Bolton very much against that position, believing that that is too much to give to the iranian regime. Essential macron, president of france, good friend of the president of the United States, has said perhaps giving some kind of nonu. S. Resources financially to iran would be a way to try to get them to the bargaining table. A lot happening here very, very much kind of one of the most hottest issues for the white house, and many wondering, is the president fully staffed for this kind of a highstakes meeting . Kendis . Yeah. Highstakes meetings generally ahead with u. N. General assembly coming up in less than ten days. Kelly odonnell at the white house a lot happening even for this saturday. Thank you. Reporter always busy here t. Is. Also this other note i should mention out of the white house. And the president was getting involved in this. This big news coming out of saudi arabia. Breaking news where there was an unusual attack resulting in massive explosions. You can see the fires burning, smoke billowing after multiple drones targeted two major Oil Facilities in just the last hour. I noted, the Saudi Embassy confirming pthe president calle the crown prince expressings United States readiness to supporting stability. Not sure what they mean by that. Over to our nbc correspondent sarah harman whos joining us and following details on this. What are we learning about this attack . Were told drones used for this seems highly unusual. Reporter it is highly unusual, kendis. This was a predawn attack on the heart of saudi arabias oil industry. Both of the facilities that were affected are owned by saudi aramco, the state oil joint there and the attacks sparked an enormous fire, a blaze Authorities Say is now under control. What we dont know is the extent of the damage. Nasa put out satellite imagery showing you can actually see some of the smoke from space. Yemens Houthi Rebels claimed responsibility for the attack. Remember, saudi arabia has been fighting with Houthi Rebels in neighboring yemen over four years. What is essentially a proxy war with iran. If this was, in fact, carried out by the houthis as they claim it would be a significant escalation in the sophistication of their attacks inside saudi arabia. Kendis . Yes. And many people wonder what impact all of this could have on the World Markets is. What are we learning now . A big question now is what is this going it mean for the Global Oil Supply. Yes. Saudi arabia is the Worlds Largest exporter. This is an attack at the heart of the saudi economy. Reached out to saudi aramco to get more on the impact, damage, production, waiting for response pap report in the wall street journal earlier claiming the attack has impacted production to the tune of about 5 Million Barrels. Were triering to confirm that. Its not clear, kendis what affect has would have on American Consumers particularly when it comes to gas prices at the pump. Saudi arabia has reserves for situations like this. Its really too early to say. Probably have to ask some kind of market analyst for a lowly reporter i can only tell you we dont know yet what the impact will be. Taking a look at many futures markets and oil prices were forecast to fall again this coming week, but, of course, that was before this predawn attack that took place there in saudi arabia. Sarah harman joining us from london with the very latest. Back here on the homefront, co keep you abreast on a breaking news story not far where where we are. Busy shopping street of fifth avenue on a saturday. Speaking out against i. C. E. And the tech giant microsoft. Apparently microsoft signed or agreed to a 20plus Million Dollar contract with i. C. E. And these folks, dozens, angry at microsoft for doing business with i. C. E. And as such are blocking off a portion of fifth avenue right there. This area is just outside the trump towers. Many, many expensive shops right there on fifth avenue including tiffany and company and saks fifth avenue. Police on the scene monitoring this and hopefully stay peaceful and the streets clear up soon. Breaking news from fifth avenue. To the race for the white house and trump challengers. Growing frustration. Three weekends pinned and oped in the Washington Post claiming canceling is a critical mistake. Joining me, editorinchief of the hill and online. Thank you for being here. What do you make of the Republican Party there in many of these states canceling primaries . Is it a mistake and what is the resons from these three republican challengers for president . The response is not too surprising. The move is surprising. If you look at trump, his standing in the Republican Party, he owns the gop. In a way he did not own it in 2017 after taking over for barack obama. He would get a lot of great headlines, because, unless something changes he would trounce these guys. Hes missing out on headlines when you cancel primaries. Never seen anything like it. I mean, take a look at mark sanford, popular at one point. Yes. Hes there. Could he actually have an impact, though, on the president there . I think he could but at the same time, when you look at the president s polls, when i talk to members of congress, republican members, privately, so concerned about speaking out. Thats what mark sanford did, spoke out against the president. The president endorsed his primary opponent and mark sanford lost that race. He did. Okay. In a int positive e a pointed l stand for nothing but reelection, it stands for nothing. Makes many wonder what is the future of the party . Will it remain the party of trump or otherwise . I think remain the party of trump. Theres sort of a selecting calling other weaks, afraid of challengers. Trump will he owns this party now. It will go into 2020. Well see what happens then, but the trump effect is going to last no matter what even after hes gone. Whatever that is. And the numbers in the Republican Party in the 90s, i note thats a dwindling sector of the population. Theyve dropped off a little bit over the, as independents as have grown. Yes. Could the mere presence of these challengers actually have an overall impact . I think so because the media will cover these primary challengers and maybe one or two more. That does show very unusual for a sitting president to have this many primary challengers, but the same time i dont see them getting a lot of traction. Certainly trump i think has been smart in not giving them too much attention. See if that lasts, kendis. Interesting, also. You have the utah senator, mitt romney, mentioned this week, a former president ial candidate of course, mitt romney, will not endorse anyone in the race. Including President Trump. If one of the most vocal republican critics of the president is only withholding his endorsement what account we expect from other republican critics . One question republicans on capitol hill hate is are you going to support the president for reelection . Is that right . A lot. Especially the centrists and those up for reelection, cory gardner in colorado, susan collins. More republicans who say, like they did in 2016. Yop support the president and will write in somebody else. The ones who want to keep their jobs, worried about their jobbed will support the president. A lot reelected, mitt romney, feel safe for the next five years. Exactly. Thank you. Coming up, the bahamas are bracing for a new storm. Tropical storm humberto threatening to devastate once more. And once said the president wa not a legitimate president. Why is he among the democrat holdouts who havent called for impeachment . Thats next. En thats next. You wouldnt accept an incomplete job from anyone else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. Nothing lasts longer. Flonase sensimist. 24 hour nondrowsy allergy relief so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Rkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. 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Right now the Tropical Storm humberto has 15 mileanhour winds and could dump up to 6 inches of rain on the bahamas over the weekend. Hardesthit area, right here. That is where abaco is located, of course, that area is still deserve sta devastated and authorities still searching for some 1,300 people unaccounted for. Tropical storm warnings up and down the bahamas two weeks after dorian. Back here at home, we continue to follow breaking news. Not far from where were located at headquarters. Protesters blocking fifth avenue and theyre apparently speaking out against i. C. E. And the tech giant micro kosoft. Around 53rd street and fifth avenue, those familiar. Microsoft has an office and a store right there. Angry microsoft has been doing business with i. C. E. S 20 million in a contract recently signed. Police are on the scene. Dozens of people are blocking the intersection. This is just down the road from trump tower. So far we have not gotten any reports of arrests. Those folk continue with that situation and many going about their day on this saturday. Well keep our eye on it. And democratic hopefuls may disagree on a lot of things but found unity on this. Spiring at the debates seen by 14 Million People on television but agreed on this irnlgts when i first got into this race i remember President Trump scoffed and said hed like to see me making a deal with xi jinping. Id like to see him make a deal with she jinping. A guy literally running our country like a game show. And poses a mortal threat to people of color across this country. Were you must and will defeat trump the most dangerous president in the histories of this country. Theres enormous, enormous opportunities once we get rid of donald trump. And now President Trump you can go back to watching fox news. That was quite a moment. Many of them targeting, of course, President Trump. Joining me now, former Congressional Press secretary rosh kjell richie and former chief of staff senator mike lee and opinion editor at desert news, board matheson. Board, start with you. What was the most consequential most of thursdays faceoff . Interesting all of the candidates really tried to get into their space. Cory booker tried to be the happy warrior, played it quite well. Elizabeth warren continued down her path with a plan for everything. Former Vice President joe biden strong early, faded late. Lost focus. Trying to get into their lanes. Focus on the fact theyre all against President Trump, that part is very clear and obvious, but i think the case they have to make to democratic voters is what they are for. Because thats what those voters really want to know. What are you going to do for me . How is that impacting me, my job, my family and my world . Ebbs and flows of that. Kamala harris maybe too cute by half a couple of times. Tried a little too hard on a couple things. Important also to remember that this is really the beginning of the beginning of the campaign. Were postlabor day. People are finally tuning in and focusing and should remember that at this point way back in 2007, Hillary Clinton had about a 25point lead on a guy named barack obama. Its still very early and very fluid. It is. So many different people had leads back in 2008. So you have one thing about joe biden, isnt necessarily the age. Or competency or all that. A lot of people saying beyond that, ignore all that, they dont know what hes running for. Right, and did he establish that, do you think, during this debate . I think biden is really struggling during these debates. Im not sure if he is really positioning himself in a way that people can be confident that he can beat donald trump on a debate stage. Heo get his facts wrong sometimes, seems to fumble a lot and doesnt seem prepared to handle the questions about race and racism very well. At this point you would think biden and his team should know people are going to come after him about racism and racist and bias opinioned hes had and he still continues to fumble on that. So i think thats a huge problem for him. I think that warren is strong but not picking up votes as far as nonwhites. I think her support with nonwhites is 12 . For moderates and conservatives its 9 . So shes trying to sort of move herself to this more centrist sort of position as opposed to seeing as if shes the female Bernie Sanders because she realizes that africanamerican voters in particular are more moderate in their vote f. Other candidates fall by their wayside, you know well the nonwhites will come going to vote for whoever is the democratic nominee. A rat could run for president and theyre going to vote for the rat over donald trump. Boyd, switch gears with you to impeachment. Blocking the Judiciary Committees request for muellers underlying evidence of grand jury stuff from the russian investigation. How big an impediment for democrats . How theyll continue to message all of this. The key number coming out of the house is 218. Unless there are 218 folk theres ready to cast a vote to move that forward, were really going through a lot of exercises there that arent going to move the needle or move the conversation forward. Again, as you look at 2020, that become as problem. If people feel theyre hunkered down and hyperfocused on impeachment does does do a lot for the kitchen tabletopices that i think will win the day in 2020. For the most part and sadly because im one who strongly believes in the oversight capacity of the house regardless whos in the white house and whos in control of the house or the senate. The sad thing, this will be used primarily by the extreme left and extreme right to raise a lot of money. Thats not good for the American People and just keeps us in a place where were not having critical conversations about important issues for the country. A critical voice weighing in a little more about all of this. Talking about rettive rachelle john lewis, getting closer to going publics with has support for impeachment. Civil rights legend, a very important voice in congress right there, and in leadership. If he starts supporting impeachment, could that be the pin needed to get others onboard . I dont know. I think members of congress and i have obviously a lot of respect for congressman lewis but hes been slow with this because he recognizes 56 of country does not agree with impeachment. I fear if we go down this impeachment road we are not only going to risk losing in 2020 but we could also risk losing the house and senate. Seems that the way we should go about beating donald trump is at the ballot box. If he is reelected, at least if democrats had control of the senate, then they would have that senate support. The senate we have now is not going to vote to impeach donald trump. Its not happening. So seems that this is just optimists and so many other things coming down the road. Border wall funding expires end of the month. Nafta, other things coming down the line well be fighting about and im not sure if impeachment is something we need to do especially when you dont have support of american voters. Yeah. Doesnt necessarily have majority support of democrats as well. Right. At this point. All right. Leave it there for now. Rochelle, stick around. And thanks to you. And a stunning report the wealthy American Family at center of the Opioid Crisis was moving billions of dollars overseas. Prosecutors suspect to protect their wealth from lawsuits. Thats next. M lawsuits thats next. Applebees handcrafted burgers now starting at 7. 99. 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The group were told is a group called movie mehta the last democratic debate in july you recall, in detroit, they interrupted that debate. Right now theyre interrupting business right there on fifth after flue. Police have been on the scene. This is a live ground shot there. You can see, traffic is flowing once again. So far no word on any arrests, but they are protesting the multiMillion Dollar contract that microsoft has signed apparently with i. C. E. Keep an eye on it as this continues to unfold. And meantime, were also following the stunning new accusations against a wealthy and wellknown American Family at the center of the Opioid Crisis. The Sackler Family controlling Purdue Pharma trying to hide and protect its wealth as its company tries to hammer out a settlement with states and municipalities who accused the company allowing its highly addictive drugs to proliferate in communities across the country. Nbc news kathy park following the story and kathy, were learning about this more than a billion dollars supposedly funneled to banks and overseas locations. Thats right. I want to start off by talking about how big of a deal this is, because the Sackler Family you mentioned, a wealthy group. Forbes in 2016 said net worth somewhere around 13 billion, and you probably have heard the sack lesh family as well as Purdue Pharma in headlines a lot recently because currently bringing in thousands of opioid lawsuits and earlier in the week agreed to a settlement, a multibillion Dollar Settlement currently kind of in the tentative stage now but terms laid out. Highlight a few. Purdue pharma would declare bankruptcy. The family would eventually give up control of the company and then turn it into a forprofit trust. Then future profits would eventually go to the plaintiffs. I think what really stands out is that the settlement allows no admission of wrongdoing. So in addition to all of that, kendis, yesterday the new York Attorney general essentially dropped this billion dollar bombshell. They subpoenaed several banks as well as advisers to the sacklers and were able to uncover information that a billion dollars, upwards of a billion dollars, was being transferred to various bank accounts, some to offshore accounts, some to swiss accounts. So that is just one little nugget of this ongoing saga with the Sackler Family and the new york a. G. She essentially wants to uncover what could be potentially more forch fortune the family is trying to hide. A big revelation friday, but this legal drama seems to kind of keep mounting especially for this very wealthy family, kendis. Yes. A very influential family as well. Backers of many, many famous museums across the country. Kathy park joining us with the very latest on this controversy. Still ahead right here the chair of the house Judiciary Committee is accusing the president s Justice Department of a coverup as democrats seek grand jury documents related to muellers russia probe. We talk too a former watergate lawyer for her take on where this is heading next. Jet and its awesome. Its an allinone so its ready to go when i am. The cleaning solution actually breaks down dirt and grime. And the pad absorbs it deep inside. So, it prevents streaks and haze better than my old mop. Plus, its safe to use on all my floors, even wood. Glad i got that off my chest and the day off my floor. Try wet jet with a moneyback guarantee woman on phone discover. Hi. Do you have a travel card . Yep. Our miles card. Earn unlimited 1. 5 miles and well match it at the end of your first year. Nice im thinking about a scuba diving trip. Woman ooh gasp or not. You okay . Yeah, no, im good. Earn miles. Well match em at the end of your first year. 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And ali vitali traveling with senator Elizabeth Warren and joins us from an unfamiliar location. Home. Thanks for being here. So youve been traveling, i mentioned, with the Warren Campaign for some time now and get a sense as if they have momentum especially after the third debate . They plan a big rally here in new york in a couple days. Right. Get to be home and actually see my parents all in the span of three days. A strange bout on the campaign trail. I think coming out of the third debate the Warren Campaign is trying to capitalize on the momentum from thursday night. Holding a big rally this thursday night and holding debates later in the week. This is a campaign largely unfazed by the ebbs and flows of good and bad press on the campaign trail. The debates provide a moment of an opportunity to, again, continue telling her personal narrative, to continue pushing the idea she has a plan for that, and to leave that as a point of contrast between warren and the rest of the field when ten of them in this case were onstage thursday night. I do think in terms of capitalizing on momentum well could not seeing a lot of what weve already seen from her, which is town hallstyle events, answering questions and one of the few running this race without throwing punches at the other contenders. Well probably continue to see that, too, through the next months of the debate. And how many attacked thursday and she didnt go on the attack at all. Exactly. The only candidate not to attack anybody else. Meantime, though, it does appear as if shes throwing town halls. Shes throwing, also, some big venue events. She was in seattle, got thousands of people and thousands are expected here in new york. Whats the idea behind all of that . Is that more, again, getting funds up, or what . Look, Elizabeth Warren is someone who relies heavily and exclusively on small donor dollars. That helps get the word out. I also think that when you look at the power of what a big crowd tells you, i dont know that crowd size necessarily immediately get reflected in polls, though i know she is steadily rising. I think that crowd size can speak to the idea of electability and theclearly ene ground. Elizabeth warren asked about kr0ud size over the past weeks says it shows and proves people are listening to the message and tuning in to what she has to also. Also i think thats why the debate stage is so important. You look at its every month now. Every three, four weeks seeing candidates get on the debate stage. Y debates mean both everything and nothing. What i mean by that is they mean everything because its a chance for these candidates to not just prove they can make it when it comes to higher qualifying thresholds also a chance to continuously put themselves in the mix when voters start tuning in. The fall is theoretically a more serious time on the campaign trail. You transition out of summer and really want to hit the ground running. The important to be on the stage. The debates also mean nothing, because news moments are fleeting. You and i know how quickly the news cycle changes from moment to moment even in the course of a day. So a good night on the debate stage weve seen people like Kamala Harris get polling bumps, cory booker, Julian Castro praised. Castro through a different news cycle after the late debate the way he attacked joe biden but all moments fleeting as were el. It if you dont have a way to capitalize when you get off the campaign trail again, you go into the next debate. Like a continuing reset as we go over the course of the next few months on the campaign trail. That was the key. Many saying Kamala Harris admittedly did not capitalize on her debate moment some months ago. Ali vitali, thanks to you and good to know you were able to find the location there in nebraska after all of these months. Thanks. From the campaign trail to capitol hill. Strong accusations against the administration where the top democrat on the house Judiciary Committee is accusing Trumps Justice Department of a cover jub. The doj is giving flashbacks you might say of the watergate era citing the nixon proceedings to explain why theyre withholding muellers secret grand jury material from the Judiciary Committee. A new court filing yesterday, Trumps Justice Department claims the house much pass an impeachment inquiry solution before turning over the requested documents. Next guest is familiar with this. Watergate special prosecutor, knows a lot about this. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Nice to be here. You heard it there. The doj in essence citing nixons impeachment, an excuse for not complying with the Judiciary Committees request. What do you mike of that . I think that is wrong. I think that the house Judiciary Committees legal claims are very valid and will prevail. I think the thing thats more interesting to me is some of the differences between where we were during watergate when we turned over the material to the house and they used it to continue their investigation. First of all, you had before that happened, you had the senator irvins committee had the hearings, and there was public evidence. They had witnesses, john dean testified in public. So that the public was really aware of the crimes that had been admitted and had the evidence and became more supportive. The support for impeachment started to rise as the facts started to come out. Also, you had a difference, because it was bipartisan. At that time, actually democrats and republicans voted for impeachment and worked together to bring it about. You didnt have the fox news bubble where people who are listening to fox news have a completely different take on what is going on than those people who are watching this show right now. Uhhuh. People watching us have one view. People watching fox have a completely different view. Jill, through all this, you saw the doj reaction and saying bakaly start an official impeachment inquiry in order for them to hand over all of that grand jury testimony and information. Is that the case . It isnt the case and during watergate, the actual official start of impeachment happened after the hearings had already started, and after we had turned over the documents. So i think that what is going on now i think it will. What nadler is saying, this is a proceeding, and this argument whether it is a judicial proceeding or not is wrong. It is a judicial proceeding. We have an actual kind of case where the rules that have been set and applied, and should count in the court. My only fear in this day and age is with the courts appointed, the judges who have been appointed by this administration, if they are going to thumb their nose at precedent. Always wanted to say stare decisis on television and now i just did, but, you know, our system of justice is bound by that. Past decisions govern future actions and the decision of the court to give the material, grand jury secret material to the congress for use in investigating whether to bring impeachment or not is one that should stand, and that the congress should be able to get that 6e material. I feel very strongly about that and the American People should, too. Why shouldnt the facts come out . Facts make all the difference in the world. So let me ask you, with this past congressional action, what does it tell us about future actions, compared to how the 116th congress, current congress, is reacting to possible impeachment proceedingses . How could democrats unify support way back then in the impeaching nixon . First of all, peter radino chair of committee then from new jersey did a brilliant job of bringing together democrats and republicans and not just democrats when we say democrats at that time we had a southern democrat, a lot of southern democrats who were much more conservative, even then, for example, the red state democrats that we now have. And so he really worked hard at making the facts available and having the words of the impeachment clauses drafted in ay way by both democrats and republicans. Ultimately, again, it was the facts that mattered, and that people heard the facts and lost total trust in the president. Yes. He started out with a 60 Approval Rating and ended at i think 24 , because the facts came out and people believed them. We only had abc, nbc and cbs. We did not have msnbc, or fox news, and so there was one set of facts. People believed the facts. Thats what we need to get to and why the hearings are important. People see substantive witnesses they can accept the facts and act on those facts. All right. Jill, with a history lesson, very prevalent in this day and age. Our thanks to you. Up next, pop versus politics. President trump brought a knife to a social media gunfight and supermodel Chrissy Teigen had the last laugh. What she had to say. And senator ted cruz and melissa elan a ma alyssa mil. Thats coming up. Thats coming up. Went to ancestry, i put in the names of my grandparents first. It gave me a leaf almost right away. Within a few days, i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, im related to george washington. I didnt know that using ancestry would be so easy. 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Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Eliquis, the number one cardiologistprescribed blood thinner. Ask your doctor if eliquis is whats next for you. At this weeks intersection of pop and politics, a popular comedian gets serious on capitol hill. Ted cruz makes a celebrity friend. And the president picks a beef with the wrong celeb. I was really angry, my eyes filled up with water at the shock of it, i cant believe this happens, he just goes on these rants. I have so many group chats going that night of hilarious people, people making funny videos, sending them to me, so then you laugh about it. Okay. So heres what the supermodel Chrissy Teigen was talking about. She was addressing President Trumps twitter attack against her. Trump saw her husband, the singer, john legend, a singing legend himself, discussing criminal Justice Reform right here on msnbc. And then the president went off. He went to blast legend as boring and called Chrissy Teigen, who was not part of the broadcast, by the way, legends filthymouthed wife. Joining me now is the former press secretary for the House Democratic policy and Communications Committee and dean obadiah, host of sirius xms dean object obadiah show. What do we make of this . This is a long list of people trump has fought with. I dont know what i have to do before trump attacks me on twitter. What its really about is trump whining, lets be honest. Chrissy teigen took the high road on some level. I will say this. I dont get in the big picture because polls show even republicans want him to stop tweeting. So politically, the democratic 2020 candidates should all make a pledge, were not going to tweet if you vote for us. People are saying because hes attacking a woman of color, maybe if you were a woman of color you would get one of those tweets. A lot of people saying he has a thing, Chrissy Teigen is of course an asian mix. What is it with the president and attacking women of color . I dont know. I think he obviously attacks people of color because of his own biases, his own xenophobia, his own bigotry. But i think that Chrissy Teigen obviously has proven that she is not a woman who really cares at all what you think of her and shes going to come out and say any and everything to you. I thought that what she said to him was absolutely great. I think it was very hypocritical for him to call anybody filthymouthed anything considering the things weve heard him say, when he was running for president and somehow and specifically her response. And her response. Look, this is 2019, theres a lot of filthymouthed women out there and were going to say exactly what we feel whether you like it or not. One of our favorite comedians outside of dean, was on capitol hill this week. Here is what he had to say. Americans should not have to go bankrupt pursuing Higher Education and they should never be preyed upon by underregulated Loan Servicing companies. So member of this committee, we know the government is capable of stepping in during a financial crisis. So really all im asking today is, why cant we treat our student borrowers the way we treat our banks . Because 44 million americans, that is too big to fail. Not going to be part of a standup act, but hes obviously talking about the student debt crisis and getting serious, but also he had some good lines. He did. And it takes a comedian finally to bring attention to this issue. It was great to see him do that. He made the point that when you look at how much the tuition went up, 110 , while wages have gone up 16 . I think it gets attention but i would rather hear from someone like myself that is really paying back Student Loans and im not making 1 million whatever per movie or show or whatever. Johns Hopkins University is expensive, its hard to pay for. I just think we need to hear from more real people, more relatable people. At least it gets the attention a lot of times. It does. And also for this topic, gun violence. Alyssa milano has been outspoken about all of this. She has a critical summit this week with ted cruz. She posted this op ed in the last 24 hours on cnn. She actually said it was a good meeting, dean. Sure. To save american lives you have to meet with the other side in politics. Today, five to eight children will be killed in class, another 60 or 70 who use a gun to take lives. I think its great. I dont think you can change ted cruzs mind but maybe we can have consensus in this hyperpartisan world. She said, i met with the senator because we cant fix this problem unless we talk with the people who disagree with us. Shes gotten heat over the years for her stance, but she said she was nervous going into this meeting but she took it. You have to have a seat at the table. If you want to change policies, you have to work together, you have to be present at the seat, at the table, to make these things happen. I have to leave it there, thanks, guys, appreciate it. Coming up next hour right here on msnbc, we now know why the National Security adviser john bolton lost his job. Its because President Trump lost his temper. The fallout and the tense meeting over how both wanted a deal with iran. 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