Addressed those comments with a spurious claim of her own earlier today. Yesterday, he was point blank asked, do you denounce White Supremacy, and he said i have always denounced any form of that. He has condemned White Supremacy more than any president in modern history. According to one source, there is a Silver Lining for the white house. The debate might be enough to make people lose faith in the presidency altogether, in other words, the president may have succeeded in dragging biden so tar down into the mud that voters simply will stay home on election day. Quote, another positive effect of the night for trump, said the former white house official, could be to defer people outside of trumps core base of supporters from voting. But who needs an unnamed source when the president s former chief of staff is willing to brag about it on National Television . I also saw some analysis where one third of the people out there thought trump won, one third thought biden won, and one third said theyre going to stay home, which is great for the president. Bad for a challenger. Its quite a commentitary when you say its good for the president if people dont show up at the polls. That says a lot. That anchor knows how to ask a question. Joining me now is the woman one of the women behind that reporting. Nbc News White House correspondent carol lee. So the feeling is that the president is running out of time, not doing himself any favors. If thats the feeling, how much is there to this idea that they just want people not to show up at the polls . Well, look, katy, you know this better than anyone. That was part of what worked for the president in 2016. And there is an effort out there that to say, to try to muddy up joe biden, to drag him down into the mud, and to turn voters off so that they look at both candidates and think im just going to stay home. At the same time, also really energize the president s supporters and get them to turn out. And most of the president s supporters seem to have liked the donald trump that they saw on the debate stage. And there are those who thought it was dont like it and thought he shouldnt have conducted himself in that way, but by and large, its not something thats going to oppress depress his own vote. And so on the other hand, the number of voters who have looked at that debate and said, you know, neither of them looked particularly president ial, and maybe i dont want to vote, thats something that as Reince Priebus just laid it out right there, that the Trump Campaign thinks would benefit the president as opposed to joe biden. What about his inability to just come out and say, hey, listen, i dont want voters who believe in White Supremacy, i dont want white supremacists, i dont want the proud boys to vote for me, i dont like them, i dont think theyre american. Thats something his own National Security adviser, h. R. Mcmaster, said should have been an easy question for him to answer. Lets listen to him for a moment. It should be super easy to condemn white supremacists. I think that these extremists really gain traction, right, and they draw more people in because theres a perception that theyre legitimate and not, you know, a fringe hatefilled movement. And thats what they ought to be characterized as. I guess the question is, the president , does he want their support . Does he rely on their support . Is that why hes not condemning them . That certainly is a building perception, that the president doesnt want to alienate anyone who supports him or who likes him. We have seen this before. You know, he also wouldnt distance himself from the conspiracy theorist of qanon, for instance. But this is something that, you know, the president has been asked this question multiple times. You heard from the press secretary today, pointing to his past statements. He doesnt denounce it in the way that we have seen him denounce other things that he doesnt like, that he thinks that hes critical of. And so thats partly why i think you see this story line and these questions not being put to rest, because when hes given the opportunity to clearly denounce this, he doesnt take the sledge hammer to it that he takes to, frankly, a number of other things and individuals that he doesnt like or wants to denounce. We just havent seen that from him here. And yet at the same time, his own administration is saying that this is a significant domestic threat. So that coupled together is why this continues to be a story, katy. Were going to get tocollins. Carol lee, thank you, by the way. Theres also a separate story concerning a lot of folks out there, and this has to do with internal department of Homeland Security documents obtained by nbc news, and they reveal that officials at the agency were directed to make Public Comments that were sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse. Rittenhouse is the 17yearold charged with fatally shooting two protesters in kenosha, wisconsin. In addressing the media, dhs officials were told to suggest he took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend Small Business owners. Joining me now is nbc news National Security and justice correspondent julia ainsley. The byline on that story, and also to talk about the separate story of White Supremacy and what the president s words are doing online is nbc News Reporter ben collins, who is what we like to refer to on the dystopia beat. Julia, im going to start with you. This reporting from dhs, striking is, i guess, an understatement. Thats right, katy. Whats really striking is the difference you will see in these talking points versus how the administration talks about leftwing protesters. As you know, Kyle Rittenhouse was a trump supporter. He put that on his social media before this incident on august 25th where he shot two people fatally and injured another in kenosha, wisconsin. He was also very proLaw Enforcement, a big supporter of police. And the immediate aftermath, there were talking points that went out to all dhs officials. These are Law Enforcement officials, to say that they should remember that Kyle Rittenhouse took his gun to these protests in order to defend Small Business owners and that they should remind people that his lawyers say he was acting in selfdefense and that they should push back against a democratic narrative that said he was a police obsessed lone wolf. These are very clear talking points for an investigation that dhs really had nothing to do with. And an investigation that really hadnt gotten off the ground. So rather than trying to stay outside of this, simply leave it up to saying its an ongoing investigation, i dont want to talk about, dhs had specific talking points that really seem to be in lockstep with the white house. You know, when i talk to former National Security officials and experts, current experts, say they these lone wolfs or these people who are deciding to take the law into their own hands, bringing their own guns, these militia types that are showing up, are really concerning, especially as we get closer to election. Theyre also talking about, bep, what you have been noting and following online, which is this the people who are rightwing extremists, white supremacists, who are organizing themselves behind donald trump. I know yesterday he came out and he said he didnt know who the proud boys were. He said the same thing about david duke five years ago. Im not sure how much credibility he has. But how is that playing after, you know, the debate where the president said stand back and stand by . Katy, among many different White Nationalist organizations, its exactly what they wanted to hear, and they continue to say this. You know, there was a neonazi blog called the daily stormer that was wavering on trump, and now they say, hey, this is actually him bringing up the civil war again. This is what its about for us. So they continue to double down on this. But i do want to bring up, this is a National Security issue, if the president really doesnt know what these groups are, you know, the threat they pose to the united states. According to the edl, 76 of domestic terror events last year in 2019 were from farright extremists. And a majority of those came from white supremacists. Thats the biggest threat to the homeland internally is from this group of people, and he cant denounce them, and he claims not to know anything about them. Just the sheer math and also what his intelligence agencies are saying says, look, you have to Pay Attention to this thing, and he cant really full throated denounce this thing for some reason. What about the concern as we get closer to election day, ben . Thats the worry here. You know, a really good reporter at the nation said there was an internal memo with the fbi saying, look, White Nationalists think this is a flash point, between here and inauguration day, not just election day. Theyre ready to go fight in public for this thing, and theyre very worried about it internally. This is, you know, the boog alou movement, which is an antistate movement, generally, and also White Nationalist militias. So this is an enormous problem because if they start to see the power slipping away and their preferred candidate leaving and a guy who really wants to cut this stuff out entering the white house, theyre afraid they might act on it. Ben collins, thank you very much. Julie ainsley, thank you. Two of our best beat reporters at nbc news. We appreciate it. And part of why this is an issue is the president keeps sowing doubt about the election by going after mailin voting. Laying the groundwork for people to claim its a fraud if he loses. There is no proof that there is widespread fraud in mailin voting. But people are already voting, and theyre doing it, many of them, through mailin balloting. More than half a million ballots are going out in miamidade county, there largest county in a state that could decide whether President Trump gets four more years. With me now from doral, florida, is nbc news correspondent kerry sanders. Kerry, what do you have . Well, katy, its a very busy day here, as you can imagine, as theyre sending out more than 500,000 mailin ballots from miamidade county. Let me take you inside, and you can see them wheeling them on hand trucks into the back of se semitrucks. Those semitrucks then going to the post office. Some other counties began sending them out seven days ago. Areas like Broward County which is ft. Lauderdale, hillsborough county, which is tampa. West palm beach, which is palm beach county. Those went out seven days ago and they have already started to return. Voters in the state of florida sending back their votes even before this most recent debate, so if we break it down and take a look at the ballots that have already returned, were talking about 4. 7 of the ballots that were sent out have already come back. If we look at them by parties, we can see that the republicans have returned about 4. 1 of their ballots, while 5. 5 of the democrats have returned their ballots. Again, those are just the people who requested mailin ballots. Here today, some of the people lined up got their mailin ballots in person, took them into their cars and went to a voting booth right here, filled it out, and already did their votes. But to your question, katy, voters asking because donald trump has made this question so pervasive about the safety of the vote, will the Postal Service work . The supervisor of elections here addressing that question head on. The deadline is 7 00 p. M. On election day, not postmarked, not in the mail. We must receive your ballot at our department no later than 7 00 bm on election day. These are certainly historic numbers. We have around 120,000 more ballots that were mailing out today in the initial run. Then we have in entire elections in the past. She went on to say that all of the votes in the state of florida, and of course, shes in charge of the votes here in miamidade county, all of the votes will be secure. There is no way to fool the system. You cant get a mailin vote and then show up and early vote or show up election day and vote. All of that system has been worked out in the state of florida, which if we think back 20 years ago, katy, what a difference from the meltdown that happened in the state of florida. As you pointed out, this is a very important state. If we roll back the clock four years ago, it was donald trump beating Hillary Clinton by only 1. 2 , a very purple state here. And one, again, that looks like its going to go down to the wire. Katy. Well, lets hope we dont see a repeat of 2000. Kerry sanders, thank you so much. And still to come, the secret trump voters, they existed in 2016. But do they exist now . Well check in with Chris Jansing who has been in ohio trying to find out. Plus, congress is working to find middle ground on another covid relief package while Speaker Pelosi sees hope, leader mcconnell says the parties are far apart. Im going to ask republican congressman french hill of arkansas where covid cases are rising fast where he stands. First, ill be joined by the New York Times reporter who found plenty of evidence that the president s false claims about voter fraud are being used to disenfranchise americans. This is a mustread investigation. Dont go anywhere. [narrator] the shark vacmop combines powerful suction with spray mopping to lock away debris and absorb wet messes, all in one disposable pad. Just vacuum, spray mop, and toss. The shark vacmop, a complete clean all in one disposable pad. Our bargain detergent couldnt keep up. With us. Turns out its mostly water. So, we switched back to tide. One wash, stains are gone. Daughter slurping dont pay for water. Pay for clean. Its got to be tide. For months, the president has unleashed an allout attack on mailin ballots, but mr. Trumps attempt to sow doubt in the integrity of our elections is not new. This Voting System is out of control. You have people in my opinion that are voting many, many times. Just make sure your vote gets counted. Make sure, because the only way were going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. Remember that. So important that you watch other communities. Because we dont want this election stolen from us. We dont want this election stolen from us. Im urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully, because thats what has to happen. I am urging them to do it. Rinse and repeat between 2016 and now. Now, an exhaustive investigation by the New York Times details how the president is using a decadesold playbook and the power of the federal government to cast doubt on the validity of the election should he not come out on top. Quote, the movement to convince the country that voter fraud is a present danger to democracy has itself become a present danger to democracy. It has melded fully into the president s reelection campaign. The argument is now that the only way trump can lose this election is through sweeping voter fraud that benefits his opponent. Any outcome in which he does not win, therefore, can be considered illegitimate. This, trump says, is why he refuses to commit to a peaceful transfer of power. Only fraud can beat him, and fraud is everywhere. Joining me now is niemsz and sunday magazine writer at large, jim rutenberg. This reporter, as i said, is exhaustive. It is important. Im so glad you did it. What donald trump is doing is not new to the republican party, frankly. You document how they have been doing or using tactics like this since the 1964 civil rights act, again in 2000 with george bush. How is donald trump, though, taking it further and using all of that groundwork laid before him to really put this next election in danger . Well, you have never had a president take the ball and run with it. As you noted, and as the piece notes, george w. Bush administration really picked up on this after florida, after that recount. It really used voter fraud to try to drive a narrative in ways that they thought would help their political prospects, and the party really then ran with it in the tea party era, but trump is himself an avatar of this voter fraud movement, and hes brought it into the presidency, and therefore, hes using the federal government to combat this problem that doesnt really exist in the way he says it does. Definitively does not exist in the way he says it does. How is he using the federal government . Well, you see it every day. First, he started a president ial commission, which you guys covered a lot. That was meant to establish the sense that theres pervasive voter fraud. They that commission floundered and fell apart. That moved to the dhs. The dhs picked it up and it was hard to see a lot of what they are doing because a lot of documents we have gotten are redacted. They studied this, ideas Like National voter i. D. , and then the effects that president ial influence can have in the Postal Service, and of course, his department of justice, now all eyes and certainly in the Democratic Party and in the Civil Rights Community is watching the department of justice to see what it does and potentially in tandem with trumps poll watchers in november. So all that groundwork that was laid in 2016 and 2017, and that president ial commission on voting that kris kobach was leading it, i remember having kris kobach on the air with me and he was making absolutely no sense, trying to say that not only did we not know that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but we couldnt even really know if donald trump won the vote, this as hes standing on the white house lawn. He made no sense. And when it was disbanded, i think a lot of people thought, all right, done with that. We dont have to worry about it. Is that the case . Not done with that. And now were seeing the results. Because you make a great point. Sometimes these notions, they make no sense, and whenever these voter fraud charges get into the court, they really reduce down to what we initially hear. And i warn everyone to look out for this, when you hear the sensational headlines about pervasive voter fraud, watch those cases. They end up being a much smaller deal. But these arguments really can matter in a contested election setting, which the president well knows and his lawyers well know and his political aides well know. So youre getting these charges potentially happening during potentially contested recounts, and they can carry the day in a way maybe they wouldnt in the courts in this political fight that were bracing for. So you say with just 32 days until the election, you write the strategy is now in full view, flood every state, every several news network, every newspaper, and news feed with manufactured evidence of fraud to suppress democratic votes before election day, and to knock them out of statebystate tallies in the courts and counting rooms afterward. Go on. Well, you know, were really especially kind of since i finished the piece, things are coming even more into view, and that will happen in the weeks ahead. What it seems to be were lining up for, and a lopsided victory by joe biden would change this, a lopsided victory by donald trump would change this, but were looking at what seems to be protracted fighting after election day, ballot by ballot, state by state. In the wing states, and also potentially a state like new york. If new york cant deliver its ballots on time and declare a victory, that state does not go officially into a blue column. So until thats done. So theres going to be statebystate, ballotbyballot fight, and the president is driving his argument already through what is now years of argument that there is debilitating pervasive voter fraud for which there really isnt evidence. Thats why youre hearing from a lot of concerned democrats, a lot of concerned election watchers. Some Election Officials who will talk to you on background that they really want people to go to the polls and vote in person if they are able to, if they feel like they are in a safe enough position to do so. Because it just will get counted potentially ward off just the sort of scenario that youre talking about. Well see what happens, though. Jim, thank you so much, and really great job reporting. Thank you for bringing that to us. And coming up next, discreet donald Trump Supporters paved his path to the white house in 2016. Could they do it again . Do they even exist . Were going to go to ohio to find out. But first, ill speak to republican congressman french hill after its party sent over its counteroffer on a covid relief bill. An offer Speaker Pelosi called not enough. As a barber, nothings gonna beat my shave especially for guys who tend to get razor bumps from ordinary razors at home. So when they cant see me, theres gillette skinguard. A razor thats made different and designed just for men with skin thats easily irritated. It flattens the skin and lifts the blade for a shave closer than a trimmer, but not too close for comfort. I mean, its just right. The unfair money bail system. He, accused of rape. While he, accused of stealing 5. The stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. The Senior Citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. Voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. Because the size of your wallet shouldnt determine whether or not youre in jail. Vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. We are following the latest on the pandemic and here are the facts as we know them at this hour. President trump plans to hold big rallies in wisconsin this weekend, against the advice of the White House Coronavirus task force. The task force has flagged lacrosse and green bay as red zones that require maximal social distancing. Yet the president plans to gather thousands in those two areas on saturday. Video from recent trump rallies has shown few masks and little social distancing. Take a look right there. The cdc has extended its ban on passenger cruises from u. S. Ports through the end of october. Axios reports the director of the cdc wanted to extend the no sail order until february of next year but he was overruled by the vice president. Another 837,000 people filed for firsttime jobless claims last week. Tomorrow, the Labor Department will release the full unemployment numbers for september. It will be the last report before election day. Economists predict it will show a slowing recovery. And in another sign of just how much the economy is struggling, today, united and American Airlines announced major furloughs. 32,000 total employees are infected. Affected. 32,000, both airlines have vowed to release the cuts if the government passes an aid package in the next few days. House democrats are expected to move ahead with a vote some time today on a 2. 2 trillion relief bill. The heroes act. Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell called that price tag outlandish so its not surprising that just a few hours ago, House Speaker nancy pelosi sounded downright cynical about chances republicans would come anywhere near the amount she says americans need. Were looking at it from the standpoint of a family making 20,000 a year, a family of four. And theyre looking at it from a standpoint of 150 billion to the wealthiest people in our country. Thats why we not only have a dollars debate, we have a values debate. Still, im optimistic. Joining me now is republican congressman from arkansas, french hill. He serves on the Bipartisan Congressional Oversight Commission that oversees loans made to the Airline Industry. Lets start there with the airlines and these furloughs that both united and American Airlines have announced. Are you planning on getting aid to the Airline Industry to avoid this . Katy, its nice to be with you. The c. A. R. E. S. Act had two issues about airlines. First were a series of loans directly from treasury with taxpayer dollars to support the airlines. And secondly was essentially their own paycheck protection type program for airline workers. That first proposal, the loans, have been agreed to between the airlines and the treasury, and a number of major carriers have accepted that financing proposal. However, the paycheck protection portion where they pay salaries expires at 9 30, and so far, we dont have consensus in congress on what to do here october 1st. So it sounds like the airlines will be forced to make those furloughs because there is no aid coming. Well, as i say, they had these longterm loans that are helping the airlines stay in business. Some have taken them, some have not. But in terms of direct payroll support, that expired on september 30th and has not been successful between the house and senate finding any compromise on that topic. Its not just the airlines that are hurting. Disney, allstate, marathon oil, all announced layoffs this week. 837,000 people filed new unemployment claims this week. Were going to get the monthly numbers tomorrow. Economists do not expect that they are going to be good. There are millions of people who are permanently out of work. Do you plan on voting for the heroes act . Well, this is whats been frustrating to many of us in congress. Where there is consensus to extend the Paycheck Protection Program to help Small Businesses which kept 51 million workers across this country who had a paycheck coming in over the summer, extend and compromise on the Unemployment Compensation issue, thats a key issue. Give our governors flexibility to spend the money we have already provided the governors including making significant broadband investments after december 31st. These are the things that there is consensus on. Support for schools. And perhaps as President Trump has asked, an additional 1200 for families. And all that, katy, has been held up in these negotiations that you just referenced between Speaker Pelosi and secretary mnuchin, with her asking for things that are not covidrelated. She wants 16yearolds to be registered to vote. She wants to give high income earners in new york and california a tax break. She wants to have some elements of the Green New Deal included in the bill. And what we need to be focused on are these core elements, help for families, help for Small Businesses, help for our governors, and its a much more narrow amount of money than 2. 2 trillion or 2. 4 trillion in the heroes act. You know, democrats have come down by almost a trillion dollars to try to meet republicans. When youre talking about the Paycheck Protection Program, by the way, there were a lot of problems with how that was distributed. A lot of business owners, Small Business owners saying for some reason they didnt qualify. There were also a lot of businesses out there who said it frankly didnt make sense for their business because they werent able to open up in the same way as before. A lot of hospitality businesses were feeling that. Do you honestly think thats enough to get people back in shape, and do you honestly think that 1200 is enough to keep people going for the next who knows how long while this pandemic is still raging . Well, all of these items are important, including the Health Care Benefits that were in the c. A. R. E. S. Act, the 1200 is helpful, but on your specific comments about the ppp program, some of those things have changed. Its now a fiveyear loan. Its now at a lower rate. It now can be spent over 24 weeks. Its now offered for businesses that are still hurting. That have a 25 revenue cut from 2019 levels. So the Paycheck Protection Program as proposed in the senate bill and in the house bills that were trying to get on the floor today, blocked by mrs. Pelosi, has though changes in it that is severely and desperately wanted by millions of workers working for Small Businesses in the country, and i think it would be very helpful at this stage of the economy reopening. We have a chart that shows the lowest income earners are hurting the worst during this pandemic, but i want to move on and ask you a question about the president and his inability to condemn White Supremacy. To say hey, i dont want your voters. Dont come out and vote for me, youre not american. Why cant he do that . Well, i think he said he did condemn it by saying yes, but i dont think he ever condemned it loudly enough. I think the issue has been, and hes made comments over the past three and a half years, that he condemns both violence and looting and racism and bigotry on both sides of the scale. Both right and left. And he has been forceful on that, and he never should miss an opportunity to reenforce it. And i think that opportunity was missed as forcefully as it could have been during the debate tuesday night. Remarkable that every time hes asked the question, he cant just say it strongly and loudly. As you are saying. Arkansas congressman french hill. He does it after the fact. He needs to do it in the fact. And thanks, katy. It just makes you wonder why he cant. French hill, thank you so much. We appreciate your time. And still ahead for us, the president is building his wall, and there are major consequences. Jacob soboroff takes us to the border to show us. But first, Chris Jansing is in ohio where shes asking the question we know you have been screaming at your tv. These undecided voters, the people who say they really dont know who theyre going to vote for, are they really all that undecided . Tonight, ill be eating a veggie cheeseburger on ciabatta, no tomatoes. [hard a] tonight. Ill be eating four cheese tortellini with extra tomatoes. [full emphasis on the soft a] so its come to this . [doorbell chimes] thank you. [doorbell chimes] bravo. Careful, hamill. Daddys not here to save you. Oh i am my daddy. Wait, what . What are you talking about . Whatever road you take, make sure your tires are ready to get you there safely. Right now at midas, buy three cooper tires, and get one free. Find your tires at midas. Com and get one free. 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No matter where you are or what youre doing. Ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. You can do it without fingersticks. Learn more at freestylelibre. Us. Greetings mortal p ] your journey requires liberty mutual. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Liberty power wow. That will save me lots of money. Youre insured this games boring. Lets get tacos. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. No republican has ever won the presidency without ohio. President trump won it by eight points in 2016. And hes counting on doing it again with the backing of white men. This time around, recent polls have shown the margin in ohio is razor thin and currently in joe bidens favor. Still, analysts warn a trump surge could be hiding within the electorate among people who claim to be undecided but have actually already chosen their candidate. Joining me now from lorain, ohio, is Msnbc Senior National Correspondent Chris Jansing. Chris, you were out there to find out if there is a secret trump voter as we saw in 2016, and you talked to some really, really energetic and opinionated gentlemen. What did you hear . Yeah, both of those things are true. So i came here to talk about the economy, right . Coronavirus, the economy, places like this, the old b o railroad where there was supposed to be a commuter rail. That never happened, where 250 people lost their jobs just this spring. The u. S. Steel plant here closed, but they also wanted to talk about the thing that keeps all these democrats up at night, right . Is there some secret trump voter out there fascinating conversation about all of those things. Heres what two guys, uaw, and a steel worker, had to say. One of the reasons he appeals to me is because he thinks bigly. He gets moving in a big way to make big projects. But the problem is youre believing the lie of a liar. I have two friends of mine that said they were sucked in by someone that they thought was going to change the country, and they said he did. He made it worse. And they cant wait to get him out. But i think down in the lower reaches, where the guys are doing the work, hitting the buttons, making the machines roll, those guys are solid trump because hes tough. Hes tough. Hes strong for america. And hes making America Great again. I make probably someplace between 20 and 25 calls a day to retirees, and im going to tell you what. Theres not a daggone one of them that like donald trump. I think theres a lot of secret people just sitting back, they go to work, they take care of their kids, and theyll be showing up on the 3rd of november. I think its the opposite way. Theres that silent majority thats going to vote for joe biden thats not going to vote for donald trump this time. I dont think theres a secret Republican Group out there for votes. I think joe is going to win by a landslide, and thats what i think. So, joe has reason to believe that, right . Because the polls actually show that joe biden is winning, even here in ohio, which wasnt even expected to be a battleground state. Let me tell you a little bit about john. He was a steel worker for 18 years. He got kind of a headsup saying look, its not looking good. Probably are going to close, and while he was still working in the plant, he went to school to become a registered nurse, which is what hes doing now. He still thinks donald trump is the answer for people like him who have had troubles. He said his life is good now. His kids lives are good now. That core trump voter, you know this better than anybody, katy, theyre not going anywhere. And here in ohio, in lorain county, theyre going door to door, theyre making phone calls, they believe sincerely in that secret voter, katy. You know, those core voters are not going anywhere. We saw them come out in 2016. And im going to remind everybody this, they can pull it off again, but donald trump won by very narrow margins. There were 4. 4 million voters who voted for obama in 2012 and did not vote in 2016. If democrats are able to convince them to show up again, its going to be very hard for donald trump to win again with the same numbers that he had in 2016. Hes just going to need some, some new voters, and according to that one gentleman you were talking about, he knows at least two who said no thank you. Tried it in 2016, not going back again. Im making no predictions because im not in the prediction game. I think we learned that in 2016, but those are the relevant circumstances that could prove interesting come november. Chris, i really did think you were on that train and it was actually moving and you were going to somewhere with nicer weather. Im sorry you have to stand there in the rain. But hopefully it will pass soon. Chris jansing, amazing, amazing conversations. Keep bringing them to us. We appreciate it. And for months, the Trump Campaign strategy has been to appeal to his base of white voters, a little over a month after the election, how is that working . Joining me now from the big board is nbc News National Political Correspondent steve kornacki. Steve, how is the working . Yeah, well, katy, the National Polling average here is a lead of about eight for biden, and of course, remember, Hillary Clinton won the National Popular vote in 2016. She won it by two. Biden is up eight. So where have democrats at least in the polls right now, where has biden made the gains over Hillary Clinton. Look at it demographically. Its not with black voters. Not with latino voters. This is how Hillary Clinton did in 2016. In the polling right now, joe biden winning overwhelmingly with this groups but not quite as much as Hillary Clinton did in 2016. Theres some suggestion in the polling that trump may have even made some inroads here, especially with male hispanic voters. Not quite the margins there. So the growth for democrats is among white voters. And white voters are 70 of the electorate, about 7 out of 10 ballots cast in this country. Trump won this group by 17 points in 2016. The polling right now, more than half, hes lost more than half of that lead from 17 down to 8. Again, in a giant demographic there, more than two thirds of the electorate. And we always talk about, theres these two tracks sort of demographically of white voters going in very Different Directions politically. White voters with a college degree, without. Where is the movement been in these two groups specifically since 2016 . You can see here, democratic margin among white voters with College Degrees exploded. Biden up nearly 20 now. And that trump base, that core trump base, white voters without a college degree, hes still winning big, but in the polling at least, what youre seeing not as big as he did in 2016. So slippage there for trump. And an even wider margin there. And again, its almost a tenpoint difference there. Overall among white voters. Thats significant when youre talking about a group that big. Steve kornacki, steve, thank you very much. And in just a few minutes sorry, let me try to read that again. In just a few minutes, be sure to stick around to catch Ayman Mohyeldins interview with ilhan omar, that is next hour right here on msnbc. But dont go anywhere yet, because coming up next, donald trump is building the wall, and Jacob Soboroff went to the border to show us the consequences. He joins us next. [ engine rumbling ] [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] uh, you know theres a 30minute limit, right . Tell that to the rain. [ beeping ] for those who were born to ride, theres progressive. [ beeping ] with spray moppingrk vacmop to lock away debrisuction and absorb wet messes, all in one disposable pad. Just vacuum, spray mop, and toss. The shark vacmop, a complete clean all in one disposable pad. The Trump Administration is racing to deliver on its signature 2016 Campaign Promise to build a wall. Much of what the president claims, though, is the new border wall hes built over the last four years is actually just replacement for what was already there. You have heard that a lot. But weeks out from the election, nbc news found that socalled replacement isnt as insignificant as democrats or some Fact Checkers have chlaime. Joining me is Jacob Soboroff who drove to the border in arizona, hes also the author of separated, inside an american tragedy. We have said this on this show. Its not new wall, its rer placement wall. You went down there to take a look. Its accurate, but it doesnt tell the full story, does it . No, it doesnt. And im glad you said that. I said the same thing as well. Turns out we were all incorrect. The reality is while the democrats and Fact Checkers might technically be right, it is not that simple. And when you go down there and look for yourself, its easy to understand why. Check this out, katy. The border lands of arizonas Coronado National memorial are vast and remote. And where we were headed, theres never been a physical wall. These are towers that have all kinds of different equipment on there that the Border Patrol uses for surveillance and for communications. They have been monitoring these areas of the border for a long time with this technology now. And in many places, its totally sufficient. The Border Patrol has told us that that type of technology in a lot of places is a technological border. And in a place where theres so few people crossing, its not necessary to really have anything its not necessary to really have anything else. Reporter but priorities are changing. The conservationists have been monitoring the construction. They offered to show us. So thats where we came down from, a little while ago. Thats the montezumas pass and these are the flat grass lands. Thats existing border wall and russ, over here, im going to throw my mask on. Putting the drone up in the air. He is looking at whats going on up at the ridge up there. Looks like theyre blasting reporter russ passed over water sprayers and trucking hauling out chunks of wall. We heard a blast and i see a bulldozer loading at least three fullsized dump trucks so far have come down. So thats the bulldozer on the ridge. Yeah. Theyre taking the mountain down and hauling it out. Reporter data provided to nbc news by customs and Border Protection concedes of the 341 miles of wall, only nine miles are in places where there wasnt a barrier already. Places like the top of this mountain. But to randy and russ, that misses the point. On the other side, theres nothing but vehicle barriers. Theres hundreds of miles of vehicle barriers that could be replaced by border wall and are in the process of being replaced. Thats just like building a new wall. Reporter to see what he meant the next morning we drove to arizona, near the National Monument where we met a colleague of randy and russ and a former park service wilderness fellow. Look what we just saw. This is a truck filled with steel. Theyll place this on a ten feet deep foundation with rebar and then fill it with concrete. So were talk about a huge amount of water and concrete theyre sucking out of the ground. So this guy is going to drive these on to the National Monument . Yeah. Into the heart of the desert and to build it in the middle of the wilderness area. Reporter he took us to the wilderness area. When we hear that President Trump is only building a handful of miles of new wall, and the rest of it is replacement in a dismissive way, there was already something there. That something is this and theyre replacing it with this. With this. Yeah. This idea that its just a replacement its misguided and at worst a flatout lie. People dont want to give the administration a win on this but the wall is going up. It really takes away from the fact that this is ripping arizona and the rest of the border lands into two. Reporter that tension is starting to boil over. Just a week after we visited Border Patrol and Park Service Officers got into an altercation with indigenous protesters. We could feel the tension too. As we followed laken and another vehicle on the public roads of the national park. Look in your rearview mirror, there are one, two, three, at least four Border Patrol vehicles following us. That may be because were going out here with activists who have protested this before. We are going to a spring where theyre taking water out of the ground and using it to mix the concrete for this, the replacement wall, which it turns out looks exactly like the new wall we saw yesterday. Reporter i tried to talk with whoever was following us about why. Can anybody explain to me why there was such a contingent of folks following us . I cant speak about that. Reporter they later admitted that the agents did follow us because they had quote, observed a vehicle associated with prior criminal activity in the area. Cbp wouldnt elaborate. We drove on to the springs which has long been considered a sacred site to native people here. Bee, one of the activists, led us to the water source. I can see actually the water level drop into the grass there. Correct. It has dropped about six inches. Whats it like for you to see this . Theres no words to give you as far as how my heartaches and breaks. Im disappointed in the actions that failed to protect something the earth has given us as a free gift. Reporter in a statement, they acknowledged the water level changes and said its monitoring the situation but that Government Contractors are not using ground water for more than a five mile radius of the spring. I think theres a tendency for people who are antipresident to say, hes failed in his building of the wall. As far as him failing no he didnt fail. Hes building the wall. Like hes doing what he said he would do. Katy, i appreciate you airing the whole report. It was revelatory for me to be there and see this. Dismissing any of is a mistake. When you talk to the people on the ground they say whether its the environment, whether its migration, whether its wildlife, the impacts of this are going to be extremely significant and the president as you heard there is doing exactly what he promised he was going to do. Elections have consequences. Jacob soboroff, happy to air a piece in full any time in this hour. Thank you very much. And that is going to do it for me today. If you are going outside wear a mask. If youre staying inside, Ayman Mohyeldin picks up our coverage after a quick break. Crest gum detoxify. My gums are irritated. I dont have to worry about that, do i . Harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. Crest gum detoxify works below the gum line to neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. Crest. Good afternoon. Im Ayman Mohyeldin in new york and in a few minutes ill be speaking with congresswoman ilhan omar in her first interview since the president waged that attack against her at last nights rally in her home state. Right now, President Trump is raising money for his campaign at his golf club in new jersey with millions suffering the economic effects of the coronavirus. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi just spoke by phone with Steve Mnuchin about hammering out the desperately needed covid relief bill. If they do not reach a deal, there likely wont be another chance before the election and there are very real world implications. Tens of thousands of new layoffs loom because of the coronavirus with disney, united and American Airlines, even goldman sachs, even announcing layoffs in the last 48 hours. As an estimated 837,000 people filed unemployment claims last week. A decline of 36,000 from the week before. Continuing claims though fell by almost a million to 11. 8 million together which remains a stubbornly high figure headed into the president ial election. Joining us news is senior writer, jake sherman, coauthor of political
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