Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Katy Tur 20190813

The hong kong thing is very tough situation. Very tough. Well see what happens, but im sure it will work out. I hope it works out for everybody, including china, by the way. I hope it works out for everybody. Its a very tricky situation. I think it will work out. And i hope it works out for liberty. I hope it works out for everybody, including china. I hope it works out. Hope nobody gets hurt. I hope nobody gets killed. The president then deflected blame for the protests on twitter, quote, many are blaming me and the United States for the problems going on in hong kong. I cant imagine why . He followed that up with a second post urging everyone to be, quote, calm and safe in the wake of the Chinese Government moving troops to hong kongs border. Not exactly a rousing call of support for the right to protest. Joining me now, nbc news correspondent matt bradley, Washington Post National Security reporter john hudson and daily beast columnist and author of the coming collapse of china gordon shang. Its good to see all of you. Lets start on the ground, matt. Worth pointing out this chaos is happening in a place thats long been known for order. How tenuous is the situation there . Right now, its totally calm. Things got hot and then cooled down very, very quickly here, chris. It was all afternoon that the protesters were blocking this concourse. This is the check novemberin a departures area. They were putting up barriers and deliberately trying to prevent passengers from coming in and checking in for their flights. That lasted for hours. It shut down one of the busiest airports in the world for the second day in a row. Then things took a very, very dark turn. Thats when some of the protesters found somebody who they determined was a chinese mainland undercover cop. And thats something theyve been complaining about since the protests on sunday night when they thought they were finding undercover cops amongst the protesters crowd. You can see right now theyre still in the process of looking at the possessions of this man who theyve accused of being a Police Officer and trying to dissect and determine his identity. Now this all looks really, really calm right now. Very deliberative, but at the time it was very, very violent. These people, these young protesters, they beat this man. They tied him to one of these luggage trolleys and paraded him around the airport for hours. And thats what drew the attention of the riot police. They came into the airport and gathered up here, right at the entrance, just where youd come if you were trying to board a flight. But this was all barricaded. All of this stuff, all the luggage carts, all of this was piled here and these dill gent, kind protesters managed to deconstruct everything in hours since. But they managed to block the police from storming in. We also saw incidents spread over social media with Police Officers who were charging in trying to take this man who was being held by the protesters. They managed to take his baton from him and beat him with it. And in one very dramatic episode, this officer who was in full riot gear drew his gun causing all the protesters to scatter. Now they managed to the police managed to take this guy who was being held by the protesters, who was conscious by the end of it and managed to load him into an ambulance. It was only a little while later that protesters found another person they accused of being a spy. This man turned out to be a reporter for the global times, which is a mainland english language newspaper thats basically owned and run by beijing. They took this man and chained him or took twisty ties and put him again on one of these luggage carousels. They managed to the police managed to get him out as well, but this looked really bad. This looks like an escalation of violence on the part of the protesters. As you mentioned, the whole point of this protest in the airport was to protest against police violence. The protesters now have had what looks like a major own goal on their side. They are the ones who look like theyre instigating the violence and obstruction. Chris . Thank you, matt gordon. So youve got on one side Popular Movement thats been going on for a couple of months, but theyve escalated these antigovernment protests. But if you hear the communist governmentcontrolled media, these protesters are tantamount to terrorists. A violent gang instigated by the west. Tell us how you see whats going on here and what are the stakes. Gordon . Oh, the stakes are basically the future of hong kong. What youve heard from the mainland are increasingly dire warnings, as well as those propaganda videos of the Peoples Armed police amassing in shenjen just across the border. The chinese leadership right now is congregating in the seaside resort close to beijing. They do this most augusts. And if they follow the pattern, they will be leaving the seaside resort in about four, five days. And by then, there should be a consensus on the part of the chinese leadership as to what to do. And if they dont do anything this weekend and next week, its maybe an indication of division among xi jinping and the other top leaders. So right now, everything is sort of in the balance as beijing decides what to do. Were hearing from the president. He talked, and you heard this, gordon, about whats happening on twitter. Im presuming he might have been referring to a hash tag thats trending there, what is america up to . Do you think theres a lack of awareness by this administration that that is part of chinas disinformation war . Yeah, i think President Trump is trying to avoid antagonizing beijing on this. But thats a mistake. First of all, he is trump is the leader of the free world. Hes got to speak for freedom. And this is the front line of freedom at this particular moment. Beijing has decided to attack the u. S. Across the board. We saw that from the beginning or middle of may when they declared a peoples war against the United States. And theres really nothing that the United States can do right now to convince beijing otherwise because they need an enemy. They feel threatened in beijing and theyre going to go after us no matter what. And i think President Trump needs to pivot from that and start to defending american values. Because, remember, a lot of these protesters have been singing the starspangled banner and flying the american colors during their demonstrations. They are asking for our help. Yeah, john, is it fair to say nat pretty much any other administration wed be likely to hear from the president , the leader of the worlds leading democracy, in clear support of democratic ideals and not a statement that may be somehow both sides are good here . I mean, this is, as gordon points out, a complicated geopolitical situation. But maybe something more than lets hope it all works out . Yeah, i mean, its certainly true that we would probably see different, more polished language from a different president , from either party, given the crisis thats unfolding right before us. Trump came in front of reporters and gave a really sort of casual offthecuff response. And i think the way that we know that the president s response might be different under a Different Administration is, if you look at the state department, they put out a message, a spokesman just sent a message along to me a few minutes ago saying that the United States urges china to respect the autonomy of hong kong. And it says they unequivocally stand in support of Free Expression in hong kong. So youve just got that statement now. After the president made his comments . Yes. Absolutely. And that statement also emphasizes that its important that hong kong respect freedom of assembly and freedom of expression. And so those remarks are very standard sort of boiler plate response that you could expect from an Administration Standing up for u. S. Values. Obviously, trump is in a difficult situation. Hes in the middle of a trade war with china. And so theres a lot of things that he might be factoring in when it comes to what is a real flash point. John hudson, gordon chang and matt bradley who is there for us. Thank you. Meantime, even as President Trump is commenting on the situation in hong kong, he has also been very busy over the last 24, 48 hours or so, escalating his years long culture war. First the administrations new immigration policy. It prioritizes wealthy immigrants and makes Legal Immigration harder for anyone who might need to rely on government aid at some point. This proposal is red meat for the president s base which is inherently suspect of lowincome immigrants and refugees. So for the second day in a row, we heard from acting i. C. E. Director Ken Cuccinelli suggesting how he would maybe alter the poem on the statue of liberty. Would you also agree that emma lazarus words etched on the statue of liberty, give me your tired, your poor, are also part of the american ethos . They certainly are. Give me your tired and your poor who can stand on their own two feet and who will not become a public charge. And speaking of national symbols, how about the bald eagle . The administration is also introducing a new plan to significantly weaken the endangered species act. Critics say it paves the way for oil and Gas Companies to circumvent the protections. But for the administration, it is a way to rile up a voting base thats traditionally been hostile to what they see as environmental overreach, even though the endangered species act dates back to richard nixon. Heres what the Washington Post points out. How these cultural signifiers are part of an intentional reelection strategy. Quote, trump is deliberately amplifying public tensions by seizing on divisive topics to energize his base, according to Campaign Aides and white house advisers. The president is following much the same strategy that he pursued in 2016. Inserting himself into the issues his supporters are already discussing and using blunt us against them language without regard to nuance or political correctness. So our big question today is, just how ugly will President Trumps culture war get . Joining me now, l. A. Times White House Reporter eli stokols, republican political consultant and contributing host of vox medias considerate, sir Michael Singleton and msnbc contributor adrian elrod. Welcome to all of you. The president has been stirring the pot, eli, on everything from paper straws and putting out these shirts depicting him and Mitch Mcconnell as Supreme Court champs. What does he think this gains him . Well, i think its part of a strategy and a longterm one for the president , an understanding that if your tax cuts havent really trickled down and created a lot of jobs, you know, if the economy is not really helping everybody, if farmers are hurt by the tariffs, what will bind you to your base of supporters . Its the us versus them. Its the culture wars. Its all of these things. It goes back to colin kaepernick, the betsy ross flag. This president is attacking American Cities of late. He looks for anything and everything that can drive that wedge and that can animate people on both sides. He doesnt mind if theres a counterreaction from people who arent really his supporters. He thinks that inflaming these tensions ultimately is a good thing for them politically. Its remarkable to see that from an american president given that, you know, typically, a president played these games, they were a little more subtle about it, at least oftenceibly giving lip service to the fact they are the president of the entire country. This president doesnt hide the fact hes trying to inflame these divisions that divide our country and sees it as critical to his reelection. Let me correct that. Ken cuccinelli is immigration, not i. C. E. Having said that, do we think the president has a strong opinion on paper straws . I mean, is this all about energizing the base or is there some are there some deeply held beliefs here about government overreach . Yeah, chris, its a little of both. Donald trump saw what happened that worked for him in 2016. Hes using the exact same strategy in 2020 to get reelected. With that comes risk. He narrowly won in 2016. He got really lucky and hes done nothing to grow his base. Hes looking at the 32 to 33 of the electorate, the ones who he believes if he shot someone on fifth avenue in his own words theyd still be with him. Hes working to make sure theyre energized while at the same time wants to suppress the vote on the democratic side. Hes not doing anything to get to the 4 to 5 of the undecided electorate, the suburban voters, the moderates, the independents. This is a strategy that does not appeal to him. This is what his strategy is Going Forward in 2020, i dont its going to work. How effective do you think these cultural signifiers are in turning out the base . I think theyre very important to try to intellectualize this. Some do believe in the notion and idea that immigration is not a right guaranteed by the constitution, which it is not. Immigration should be something where we as americans decide who we want to come into our country. I think that would be the belief of many of the president s supporters, in speak but its different to say putting some restrictions on who comes into our country. I dont think quarterback thin s anybody thinks that willy nilly, anybody should come. Is income potential one of them . This isnt a new phenomenon. President s for the past two decades have attempted or made some efforts to address immigration from george w. Bush, from president obama who some called the deporter in chief because of his tough stances on immigration. And here we now have donald trump and were still arguing about the same issue. Look, i think for many republicans, they would rather see some type of actions on this, if we dont see comprehensive immigration reform. And keep in mind, there was some bipartisan support in the senate about a year and a half ago on trying to come up with some type of immigration reform. The president first said he was in support of it. Ultimately backed out because i think he realized there are some folks in his base support that want something a lot more tougher, and i think those are the individuals who the president is speaking directly to. I guess, eli, the question is the president s base may love these attacks, but what about moderate suburban voters that hell need to win, right . Well, weve seen some its hard to predict whats going to happen. But i dont know that anybody who is on the fence is going to make the decision at the end of the day next november based on whether the Trump Campaign is selling plastic straws. I think they are going to look at the big are picture. So you see no real risk or i think the risk for the president is possibly the perception that theres a pettiness. That there are things that he and his campaign are doing that are beneath the office when it comes to tweaking progressives, sort of trying to own the libs. That just people look at and dont view as sort of behavior that they find president ial. That could be a risk, but if thats the case, there are a lot of examples prior to this and larger than this for them to sort of look at. So, you know, i dont know Going Forward. They just seem to like to get a rise out of people, and thats the strategy and its helping them raise a lot of money. If i could, quickly. Theres this notion that moderates may be on the fence about the president. You have to keep in mind. Some of those moderate voters who are gopleaning voters, they are going to look at some of the candidates on the democratic side. Theyll look at some of those positions. And i am not 100 person, at least as of yet, that i have seen much of anything that would move some of those voters to the other side versus donald trump. And what i mean by that is that im not certain that we wont see a repeat of 2016 where some of those more moderate or independent gopleaning voters will say, i certainly dont like the other side. I dont like trump, but i like some aspects of various policies. Im going to hold my nose and vote for him again. Thats a real possibility. Thats something a lot of democrats i talk to keeps them up at night. Whether its a reminder of what happened the day after the election or something else. If i can go back to culture wars, back in april, axios reported 2020 democrats were using these things of things to raise money off of. They said polarizing topics are being pushed via ads on social platforms where algorithms promote content that tends to be more emotion driven. Do democrats risk playing into the president s hands or to use elis term, if hes tweaking progressives, are they letting him do it . Donald trump is using very divisive rhetoric and device of issues to try to raise money off of these culture wars to try to placate to his base through these culture wars. Democrats are trying to really focus on the greater good of america. Were trying to focus on the fact we want comprehensive umigration reform. We want stronger gun safety laws. Its hard to compare the two. But, look, we also got to keep in mind, chris, every time donald trump sells one of those straws on his website, hes raising money. Hes putting money in his coffers. Thats a standard tactic campaigns use if youre selling collateral. You raise money off of that. Tshirts and straws. Exactly. So youre raising it from smalldollar donors. To an extent for trump its smart because fundraising for him in 2016 was a challenge were seeing this time around its not as hard for him to raise money. Adrienne, eli and shemichael. Breaking news out of iowa. Josh letterman spoke with president ial candidate Pete Buttigieg ahead of his soap box speech this hour at the iowa state fair. And joining me now, live from iowa, nbc news political reporter josh letterman. What do you got for us . Hey, chris. Mayor Pete Buttigieg coming in hot as he showed up for the iowa state fair. We just caught him as he was walking in surrounded by a huge gaggle of reporters and photographers. He had a lot to say about President Trump. Lets listen to what he had to say. Mayor pete, welcome to the iowa state fair. Excited to be here. I want to start with the big breaking news today. Violence erupting at the airport in hong kong. What do you think needs to be done to calm those tensions . First of all, restrants on the part of the authorities. This is a moment when American Leadership really matters. Its important for america to be a voice. For peace, for human rights, for freedom and for stability. But were having a hard time doing that right now because its not even clear whether we back that at home. Id like to see much stronger American Leadership on our values. And, you know, really call china to task for whats going on here. The whole idea is supposed to be one country, two systems. But thats not what were seeing in hong kong right now. And i think americans instinctively, we feel sympathy for these people standing up for their rights and freedoms. The president says he doesnt understand why hes getting some of the blame for whats happening over in hong kong. Also tweeting about u. S. Intelligence suggesting china is moving troops to the border. What do you make of how President Trump is handling this situation . Hes already made it about himself. And hes on twitter when he probably should be in the situation room trying to figure out how the u. S. Could in some way be an effective voice for stability. And deescalation over there before this becomes an even bigger Regional Security problem. And before people standing up for their values just as we would come to harm. Youre talking to a lot of farmers in iowa this week. I want to ask you about agriculture secretary sonny perdue who made comments getting criticism. He said that farmers who are upset about the trade war are whiners. What do you make of that message coming from the administration on agriculture and farming . It just shows this administration doesnt actually care. I think the gap between their words and their actions on workers is now something were seeing with farmers, too. Farmers are getting killed. Think in down about half from where it was. I meet people every day when i come to iowa, those involved in soy, who are really hurting. And secretary of agriculture wants to call them whiners . Theyre not whining. Theyre asking what their future is going to be. If this administration pursues the trade strategy thats coming down on their backs. The idea you can indefinitely ask farmers to bear the burden of a trade strategy doesnt make any sense. This has a cost. And the cost is being paid by farmers in places like iowa. And just the callus attitude out of the agriculture secretary shows they dont have a clue the pain theyre feeling. The small dollar donors and how people qualify. Today you have one of your fellow candidates accusing the other of buying small dollar donations to qualify. Do you think theres a risk forevfor the Democratic Party in creating these critear ja . The most motor thing is to concentrate on our own message. This field will winnow down over time. I think everybody is watching to see how that will happen, but the reality is, each of us has a job to do in presenting our message and our values. And my job is to explain why im the best candidate to beat trump and why my vision is the best for america and ill let the rest take care of itself. Mayor pete, good luck on the soapbox. Mayor Pete Buttigieg speaking several days after most of the other candidates were all here at the iowa state fair. Kind of means he gets the place to himself. He just headed back this way toward the soapbox. Hes going to be giving his speech there trying to show, of all the candidates, hes the guy that understands how things work in rural america. Josh letterman, thank you for that interview. Still ahead this hour the fbis investigation into Jeffrey Epsteins sex trafficking operation takes a turn to his private caribbean island. As the president defends sharing his Conspiracy Theory linking the clintons to epsteins death. Thats next. The first survivor of alzheimers disease is out there. And the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the Alzheimers Association. Who used expedia to book the Vacation Rental that led to the ride which took them to the place where they discovered that sometimes a little down time can lift you right up. Flights, hotels, cars, activities, Vacation Rentals. Expedia. Everything you need to go. Just two days after accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epsteins death, the investigations into his death, life and finances are expanding. Federal investigators have raided his home on his private caribbean island. Drone footage captured fbi agents seizing computers from his house in the British Virgin islands. And in washington, the House Judiciary Committee has launched a bipartisan probe into epsteins death. They want details on the federal bureau of prisons suicide watch program, how epstein was confined and monitored and names. The names of whoever should have been keeping an eye on him. And theres growing scrutiny of the manhattan federal facility where epstein was being held as we continue to learn more about whether staffing was indeed a serious issue. Joining me is nbc news investigations reporter tom winter and nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk. Tom, lets start with what do we know about where the doj investigation is . Whats happening now . Theres two doj investigations. One is the inspector generals investigation. Thats going to take a little more time because not only is that investigation going to look into whether or not any policies were violated here, theyll also eventually make some recommendations. They may say you need to have more staffing or these are the systems you need to have in place so hours dont go by when only 30 minutes at most should have gone by before you check on somebody like jeffrey epstein. Thats not going to be immediate. Thats going to take a lot more time. As far as the fbi investigation into Jeffrey Epsteins death, into any sort of criminality here, was there any sort of criminality involving anything that led up to his death . Was there any sort of other criminality within the mcc that they need to look at thats relevant to this investigation . That one you can be assured will take a lot less time because theres more time urgency there for them to get to the bottom of this. Also they may need to get information back to the medical examiner because were still waiting for the official autopsy results. Youve been to Jeffrey Epsteins private island. Im curious a little more about that, but also, obviously, what might be there that is of so much interest . Well, he spent a lot of time there. Epstein declared that as his primary residence, and he would be, in some cases, two or three times a month hed go down there. Its just interesting, im going to lay out the geography for you a little bit. Its off saints thomt. Thomas. Its the u. S. Virgin islands. You can see the islands from st. Thomas. You get on a boat. Takes about 30 minutes to get out there. There are lots of charters that are constantly there every day with snorkelers and all the rest of it. Its not impossible to get to. His compound is sprawling. The island itself is actually fairly small. The house that he lived in was quite large and grandiose, really. But you are struck by the privacy that one would have there. And he got to st. Thomas on his private jet very often. Hed then take his own helicopter and fly himself and guests to the island itself. Private property up until the high tide mark. So if you were on the island, youd get kicked off, but if he invited you, then you could stay. No one else lives there. In the meantime, the question is still going on. How did this happen . Maybe some of that will be settled. As you say, we hear a final coroners report. But what do we know about staffing . What do we know about exactly where he was being held . And what do we know about this whole controversy at this point about why he was ever taken off suicide watch in the 50 place . So the easiest way to say this is we know there were a lot of irregularities there. You heard the attorney general speak about that this week. There are numerous concerns here. One is a staffing concern. Overall facility staffing. And that doesnt thats not necessarily the people that were working that night guarding jeffrey epstein, but did they have the right amount of guards there . The night of the actual incident, according to the reporting of my colleague jonathan dienst, the correct amount of people were in the facility. But to the reporting from the New York Times, and i think this is something investigators are going to find out is, were there the right amount of guards working that night or did they have to pull staff from other parts of this facility in order to guard him . So theyll look into that. That goes to the broader kind of manpower, the broader kind of staffing concerns that i think there are serious concerns about at this facility. And then youll look at procedures. Were the right policies followed here, and do they have the right policies in the first place . So those are kind of the key concerns at this point theyll look at. Let me interrupt you for a singled. Our justice correspondent Pete Williams is standing by in our washington newsroom with breaking news from justice on this story. Whats the latest, pete . So the warden there at mcc in new york has been temporarily reassigned. And two people who work at the prison have been put on administrative leave. This is a statement from the Justice Department spokeswoman carrie kupek. She says that attorney general barr you can see it on your screen. Ill rt it. Today the attorney general, as we go through this, look at who is doing the ordering here. The attorney general directed the bureau of prisons to temporarily assign the warden at the prison there in new york at the jail, to the northeast Regional Office of the bureau of prisons pending the outcome of both the investigations. And then it says fci is federal correctional institute. Thats the bureau of prisons facility in otisville, new york, will be named acting warden for now. So thats barrs direction. Then it says the bureau of prisons has placed on administrative leave two of the Staff Members assigned to epsteins unit pending the outcome of the investigation. And then i think this last sentence is very telling. Additional actions may be taken as the circumstances warrant. And i think its fair to say that that last sentence would not be in this statement if they didnt contemplate the possibility of additional actions. Now to some extent this is fairly routine procedure when youre investigating something and you want people not to be impeding the investigation. But on the other hand, to reassign temporarily the warden, i think, is a significant step. And to put two people at the prison on administrative leave. In other words, theyre out of there for now. To get them out of the prison indicates that the investigation is already found some very troubling things. So this is a significant development. Pete williams, thank you for that breaking news. Tom winter, stephanie gosk, thanks to you as well. And all of this leads us to another part of this story which is, today, President Trump defending sharing a Conspiracy Theory that blames the clintons for Jeffrey Epsteins death. Do you really think the clintons are involved in Jeffrey Epsteins death . I have no idea. I know he was on his plane 27 times and said he was on the plane 4 times. Why did he say 4 times . And then the question you have to ask is, did bill clinton go to the island . Because epstein had an island. That was not a good place, as i understand it. And i was never there. So you have to ask, did bill clinton go to the island . Thats the question. If you find that out, youll know a lot. Trump made the baseless claim that the Clinton Family was connected to epsteins suspected suicide with these two tweets. As my next guest notes, thats nothing new. The macabre subgenre of mr. Trumps fondness for conspiracy theories has been to accuse directly or indirectly his political allies of murder. I mean, he has floated these theories whether its Justice Scalia or ted cruzs dad having something to do with the jfk assassination, vince foster, we could go on. What does he get out of this . Its a political first of all, lets always be careful of describing strategy. This is just naturally how he likes to speak and float something that we dont know. Maybe he believes its true. Maybe he doesnt. He knows some people listening to him will latch onto it and its politically helpful for him. We saw him make the attack accusing ted cruzs father of being involved in the assassination of jfk in the heat of the republican primary when ted cruz was his only opponent. Now we see the clintons sort of act as a forever foil for him. Theyve been the targets of rightwing conspiracies for decades, and its something that it almost seems in this case like he cant resist. And i thought that your quote from doug brinkley, the president ial historian, was fantastic. He believes this is a deflection strategy, right . He says, quote, the first thing trump wanted to do was put bill clinton into the mix. He added make it about bubba, not about donald. And its interesting because, look, donald trump and bill clinton both have a history with jeffrey epstein. And you would think that if you had your own long friendship with him you would avoid it like the plague. And during the campaign, trumps own aides were worried about the epstein connection. But donald trump clearly doesnt see it that way. He sees this as a weapon he can take against an old political adversary. And what we saw him do today in comments to reporters was, again, one has to ask, he says, was bill clinton ever at the island . One doesnt necessarily have to ask, especially if you are the president , but he sees openings where he can just float with vague language he can back away from and say, i didnt accuse him of anything, but he puts it out there, and people can take it and run with it as they will. Its vague language, but he also knows that even though a lot of people will shrug their shoulders and say the election is over. Youve won it. Leave Hillary Clinton. Leave bill clinton alone. But he knows that this plays to his base. The clintons have retreated from politics. Theyre nowhere on the campaign trail for candidates he can choose to attack instead. Theres something visceral about the clinton trump faceoff that he is continuing to stoke with this story. He just cant stay away from it. Annie karnie, thanks very much. Congressional democrats put the ball in the president s court calling for trump and republicans to help combat gun violence and white supremacy. Y r grandkids about it. And theyll say, grandpa just tell us about humpty dumpty. And youll say, he broke his pelvis or whatever, now back to my creamy heinz mayonnaise. Heinz mayonnaise, unforgettably creamy. We didnt have to stop the movie. I didnt have to call an ambulance. And i didnt have to contact your family. Because your afib didnt cause a blood clot that led to a stroke. Not today. Wed discussed how your stroke risk increases over time, so even though you were feeling fine, we chose xarelto®, to help keep you protected. Oncedaily xarelto®, significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. In fact, over 96 of people remained strokefree. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. 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Ask your doctor about ibrance. The 1 prescribed fdaapproved oral Combination Treatment for hr her2 mbc. Democrats today making it clear they are not going to let go of this opportunity to push for new gun legislation. With Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer challenging the president to prove what he said, that he wants to end gun violence. The direct challenge, asking President Trump to withdraw his request for 5 billion in border funding and redirect that money to programs that would combat the rise in mass murders and white supremacy. In a statement to politico, schumer said, the dual scourges of gun violence and violent white supremacist extremism in this country are a National Security threat plain and simple. And its time the Trump Administration and republicans in congress start treating them as such. No one is holding their breath that President Trump will give up money for his longpromised border wall. But as politico playbook points out, democrats do have a bit of leverage over republicans here since they control the house and appropriations season is starting. Joining me is politico Senior Writer and msnbc political contributor jake sherman and New York Times Editorial Board member mara gay. What do you make of this strategy by Chuck Schumer . I think its very smart. First of all, taking action on gun safety is the right thing to do. Its long overdue in this country. I also think that posing the rise of right wing extremism, specifically violent extremism, as a Security Threat is accurate. And i think its the right framing. And, listen, politically its very smart because it puts the ball into Republicans Court and forces their hand. And in other words, the message to the republicans is, if not this, then what . What is the action . I think its very difficult for the republicans to face the american people, especially in those swing districts next year and explain why theyve taken no action on gun safety and gun control. And jake, i want to read a little of schumers statement to politico. Democrats are prepared to work in a bipartisan fashion to respond to director wrays clairion call on a Briefing Call with Senate Democrats last week for Additional Resources to address this National Security crisis on our own soil. So where does schumer envision this 5 billion would go . And, having said that, is there any belief at all on the democratic side that this is going to happen . Well, schumer envisioned it going a lot of places. Going to the fbi. Going to antidomestic terrorism training. Things of that nature. Theyre not being totally specific at this point but democrats have a challenge at this point. Right now its the middle of august and they want to keep this issue alive not only this month but when Congress Comes back next month. So they have to figure out a way legislatively and politically to keep this issue alive and through the spending process, which is usually kind of an inside baseball process, they have an ability to try to hold republicans feet to the fire. Well see if it works. But were seeing the hints that this gun issue is not going to go away any time soon. Especially as the president said today, it was as aggressive as he has been. He said he wants strong background checks. As you and i talked about yesterday, we have to see if he holds this position for more than a week or more than a couple days. But if he does, and if he pushes on this, come september, if he sees it as politically advantageous for him going into next month, then, yes, something could get done and were beginning to see little signs, little hints that he will hold this position and take it into september. But weve also seen this playbook before, right . We have. Weve seen Congressional Republicans and the president stall. They say one thing but then they do nothing. So, i mean, will it work this time . Is this really just another case where the president says heres what i believe and then you never really hear anything from him as weve pointed out repeatedly since the shootings took place. Its a phone call. He calls Mitch Mcconnell and says, get this done. Hes talked to mcconnell a lot, more than he has before about this issue. And mcconnell said on the radio last week in a wellpublicized remark that, you know, it will be in the conversation. That doesnt seem like a lot, but for Mitch Mcconnell who usually doesnt say that much, that is a lot because he didnt shut it down immediately which is, if you are looking for gun control, thats a very good sign because he is, when he doesnt like something, he is known to very quickly shut it down and move on. So were still weeks away. This is a huge challenge to keep this issue alive legislatively and politically. But it is as alive as its ever been before. Especially in divided government. You can see it in the polls, mara. Even republicans have a majority on many of these things like background checks. That they believe should happen. If they dont do it is the political calculation either, i dont believe in the polls which weve heard from the president before or just this isnt something that theyll vote on . I think the political calculation, i believe the republicans are making here is theres a divide between those that want to throw more red meat somehow, still more red meat to trumps base, which doesnt necessarily support this, and then those who are really concerned about winning those swing districts that democrats took last year. Gun control in many of those districts is a winning issue for democrats. And for those who support stronger measures. And i do think that the republicans are smart to kind of consider maybe trying to win back some of that support. Gun control and health care were two of the top issues that we saw on voters minds. Mara gay and jake sherman, thanks to you. If seconomic experts are correct, a recession could be waiting in the wings. Could that cost the president a second term . Second term . N smith or this john smith. Or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana Medicare Advantage members. 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We have the number one economy on earth. No economy is the number one economy in the world. Its picked up tremendously in the last three years since ive been here. China has had the worst year theyve had in 27 years and were having the best year weve ever had. Were doing the best weve ever done as a country and im very happy about it. Joining me, Associated Press White House Reporter and msnbc political analyst Jonathan Lamire and politico chief economic correspondent and host of the politico money podcast ben white. I got to start with a little bit after fact check here. Where to start. Best economy ever. Best economy. Best economy. Never had a better economy. Ever. False. Wrong. Incorrect. Based on nothing. Made up. Are we going to have a recession . We could within the next year or so. We grew at Something Like 2 in the Second Quarter which is way far from the best weve ever grown. Most estimates are for under 2 in the third and fourth quarter. A lot of it driven down by the trade war. The fact that businesses have no idea what trumps policies are going to be. We saw it today. He essentially backed off his latest tariff threat with china saying he didnt want to increase tariffs on consumer goods ahead of christmas at the same time he says china pays the tariffs. If china is paying the tariffs why would it be a problem for christmas shoppers . Are you trying to suggest that maybe he has no idea what he is talking about . That is the case here. Hes trying to have it both ways. I will suggest this. He has made promises he has not kept. We can show you some of them. His tax cut was supposed to pay for itself which it hasnt. I could go on and on. The tariffs were supposed to help manufacturing but the Manufacturing Sector is still struggling. Does it matter because he does work from a base point, Jonathan Lamire, it seems, that if you Say Something enough times it is true. Oh, yes. Thats how he works. That is how he always has. It predates his political career. Hell exaggerate, say things over and over. He creates his own truth. One of my favorite donald trump stats is donald trump tower is listed as 68 stories tall. It is actually 58. He inflated it ten floors so it would be the tallest in the area and he said it over and over and put it in the marketing materials. This is though the number one reason the argument they make for reelection is the economy and thats what theyre banking on is the voters including some who perhaps held their nose last time and supported him will do so again this time and try to ignore the distractions, the racist tweets, the fact that he may have his rhetoric is cited by a mass shooter in texas. Whatever the controversy may be, from charlottesville to helsinki ignore all that and fill us in on the economy. The president is fwood for my wallet, my checking account, my bills. If we do have a recession and it slows down that is what more than anything alarms the people. The Washington Post analyzed a recent poll conducted by marist college. I think this is fascinating. I want your reactions to this. More than half of the country say they approve of how trump is doing on the economy. Nearly twothirds say they personally are doing very well. And yet, more than half of americans say they will definitely vote against trump in 2020. Is that what we saw in of the last election which is the polls suggested that the president was going to win but maybe some people were not saying that they were going to vote for him when they really were. Or is the economy just not as much, not as important as it has been in past elections because there is so much other stuff going on with him . It could be. That is the tension i was getting at. Does the economy drown out the rest of the noise . If you are a voter you might not think the economy is enough. You may feel that youre waking up every morning sort of reluctant to turn on the news or log in to twitter because youre afraid of what the president may have said that may trump, pardon the pun, what he has done for your economy. You might like the tax cut but decide enough is enough. I dont want this. The margins were so slim last time around it wouldnt take that many voters to go that way to send him out of the white house. On the other hand if it is not a full blown recession if we might continue to see what you might consider a slight down turn is that enough to change the equation . Is there a point at which it is almost certain the economy would have an impact . Right. I think the economy is not good enough to lift trump and lift him out of all the negatives that he has. If we were growing 3 or more and wages were booming and all of the things he says are happening were actually happening that would boost him but theyre not. And people know that. They feel it in their daily lives. The economy is about the same as it was after president obama after it was lifted to 3 herz for a while. Now it is back to where it was. You look deep inside the poll numbers and people dont credit trump that much with the economy we have because it is not that different. So the economy right now is not enough to lift him above the negatives. If it goes south from here it is enough to tank him. At some point if it goes south Jonathan Lamire how long can you say this is the best economy weve ever had . Hell keep doing it. He has not shown that facts limit him in terms of his claims. I think that is certainly right is that he is, first of all, he has not gotten the credit he deserves. And he clearly believes that. He believes that. Thats because there is so much else weighing him down. Because even voters who do think the economy is good, certainly it is over rated in some ways. Even those who do feel like theyre just distracted by other things. And, certainly, if the economy is to tank, what President Trump does then is a mystery. Yes, he can keep blustering and saying its good. He can blame it on his predecessor barack obama which he does time and again. Blame it on democrats. Or china or global forces. Or the fed which he also does. It is unlikely he will accept personal responsibility. Ben white, Jonathan Lamire, thank you, guys. Much appreciated. One more thing before we go. Form former phillies red sox and diamondbacks pitcher Curt Schilling says he is considering a run for congress in arizona. If he launches a campaign he has a glowing endorsement, the president calling his possible candidacy terrific on twitter. Schilling is an outspoken conservative and trump supporter and is hinting he may run on immigration again, that is if he runs because weve been here before. Schilling has talked about running for senate in massachusetts twice but never did. He told the Arizona Republic through email that, quote, the state is not the state i grew up in. Making arizona citizens of every race, religion, and Sexual Orientation second class citizens to Illegal Immigrants is about as antiamerican as it gets. One thing is abundantly clear. Should Curt Schilling run for congress and win, hes not exactly what youd call a voice of unity. After leaving the big leagues, schilling became a commentator on espn and was fired as you may know for posting online about Transgender Americans saying in part a man is a man no matter what they call themselves. He suggested Hillary Clinton should be buried under a jail cell. He spouted conspiracy theories. Much like weve seen this week including this morning from the president. Schilling has called the parkland shooting survivor david haugh a crisis actor and has posted pro trump conspiracy theories on social media, yet schilling says he is blindsided when he is called transphobic and racist. In fact, he believes his political views have kept him out of the hall of fame and the president seems to agree tweeting in january that schilling deserves to be in the Baseball Hall of fame. But does schilling deserve a seat in congress . The people of arizona may be the ones to decide that one. That wraps up things on this busy hour of msnbc live. Ali velshi picking things up right now. Thank you. Have a great afternoon. You, too. It is tuesday, august 13th. President trump says everyone should be calm and safe after tweeting that intelligence informed the white house that the Chinese Government is moving troops to the border with hong kong. For a second day this week operations at Hong Kongs International Airport shut down after thousands of antigovernment protesters swarmed the departure area clashing with police. The chaotic scene underscores an escalating feud between the former british colony and Mainland China which started about two months ago over a controversial bill supported by the citys leader carrie lamb that critics feared would allow Mainland China to extradite and prosecute political opponents and activists. Lamb suspended the bill after weeks of demonstrations but the protests have shifted to outcry over Police Brutality and calls for free elections, a direct challenge to chinas ruling communist party. Beijing has characterized the protests as sprouts of terrorism signaling the possibility that it will intervene to break up the unrest in a city that remains an essential economic valve for the second biggest economy in the world. That mounting aggression has serious worldwide implications that were going to g