Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Katy Tur 20190610

Testifying cant we find somebody who is not disgraced, disbarred and didnt go to jail for obstruction of justice . Theyre picking their lawyers from tv now. Remember, he tried to derail Brett Kavanaughs nomination. Not a credible person. Todays hearing marks the first day of whats sure to be a busy week for democrats who plan to take their most aggressive steps yet against President Trump and the Trump Administration. Tomorrow, the house will vote on a civil contempt resolution for the House Judiciary Committee to go to court to enforce their subpoenas. This after both attorney general william barr and former White House Counsel Don Mcgahn failed to comply with congressional subpoenas for documents and testimony. But the doj and nadler did reach a separate deal today over key evidence in the Mueller Probe relating to obstruction. Joining me now, nbc news correspondent, kelly odonnell, politico Senior Writer and msnbc political contributor, jake sherman. Ben wittis. Former federal prosecutor, cynthia alexni and glen kerschner. Kelly, i start with you. Youre outside the hearing room today. What should we expect here as this begins to unfold . What do democrats hope to gain, and ive been reading the notes youve been putting in our system. It sounds like there is quite a crowd out there. I feel like a traffic reporter, kasie. More than covering capitol hill. Let me give a sense first and then to the heart of your question. A couple doors down is the entrance to the judiciary committee. It is loud and boisterous here, but the line spans the entire length of this hallway. And the officer is telling us that the room is full and there are probably a few hundred people behind me. And they are not going to get in. They will have an opportunity to go to a room to watch the proceedings, sort of a secondary location. So there will be a lot of rumbling and mumbling here, because lots of people have been waiting. So to get to the heart of your question, this is an opportunity for democrats to in essence put on a show about the Mueller Report. And i mean that in the sense of a live action description of what the big issues are in the Mueller Report without using the actual witnesses associated with it. Not Robert Mueller himself, not the former white house counsel, don mcgahn. In fact, if we talk about former white house counsels, were going back to nixon as you alluded to. John dean, who said today that he believes he can give perspective. Here were his comments earlier today about his expectations of this hearing. I hope i can give them some context and show them how strikingly like watergate, what were seeing now and as reported in the Mueller Report is. So ive taken several examples from the Mueller Report, relating to obstruction of justice, which is their focus today. And looked at those and made the comparisons. Some will call it political theater. Others say education. Clearly its interested based on the numbers of people lined up in the hall to see this. And clearly part of a larger democratic strategic to engage the public on what exactly is in the Mueller Report to keep pressure on the administration. You reported on the new deal between department of justice and the committee about getting more access for members to redacted sections of the committee. And building that pressure means there have to be events. And this is one of those events that apparently was a hotter ticket in town than we expected. Kasie . Indeed, kelly. And jake sherman, you and i have been talking about this, because the committee itself really skews, at least on the democratic side, very progressive, very in favor of impeachment. How do we see this unfolding, and do you think democrats are going to be able to accomplish this goal of actually outlining a narrative for the American Public . No. Because i dont think many people are going to be watching the blow of this hearing, blow by blow, for the next couple hours. Everyone is going to be watching you instead. No, but i think also another thing to keep in mind, which is important, is this committee is filled with republicans who are very close allies of the president. So youre going to have one side, the democrats, trying to create a narrative about obstruction, about what the Mueller Report says and doesnt say. And then youre going to have people like jim gordon and andy bigs, who are going to try to push back on this and try to protect the president , try to show that democrats are only trying to impeach, theyre not trying to get information. So its going to be a lot of static, a lot of signals crossing over the next couple of hours. And im skeptical. Again, we talked about this on your show last night. Im skeptical that democrats will be able to create some sort of narrative that will stick and will be able to also assuage people who just want impeachment now. Most democrats that we hear, that we talk to, want impeachment right now and if not saying it publicly, many are saying it privately. Ben wittis, to pick up on that point, a big part of this question about impeachment proceedings some of it originated with the idea in the law that, you know, the house would have more power to see redacted portions of the Mueller Report, particularly grand jury information, if they were to launch impeachment proceedings. Now, were learning today that nadler has an agreement of some sort with department of justice to allow additional access to some of these materials. Does that sort of, you know, take us a step away from impeachment, in your view . I dont think it affects it one way or the other, to be honest. I think theres a theres a fight over materials and witnesses. And how much access to the material that they want to get, democrats are going to get. And theres also a substantive the president of the United States. And those are not wholly unrelated questions, but the irony is that the more information you get, the more damaging it looks to the president , which is why the president doesnt want to turn over that information. Right . And so ironically, the more cooperative you are, the more damning the situation ben, im so sorry to cut you off. We are, of course, waiting for the start of this hearing. But we actually have some additional breaking news. There has been a small we believe helicopter thats crashed on 7th avenue in new york city. Well listen into our coverage on wnbc. Take a look. Those are the reports they are responding to, in terms of the emergency situation that they have at 7th avenue at this hour. So, again, no word on injuries or the exact cause for this apparent crash and fire at 787 7th avenue. We do know we have crews onscene and traffic on the west side is a mess in midtown right now as we did hear tons of sirens responding past our building, just a couple blocks away here. As investigators are, again, responding to what appears to be an emergen 7th avenue here in midtown. Indeed, jonathan. And were talking through it together. That does make sense. When we first got the initial report, we heard some sort of aircraft, some sort of plane down on 6th or 7th avenue, which didnt sound right to us, because literally we are so close, we would have felt something. So a helicopter does make more sense. We have covered just a few weeks ago, there was the helicopter that went down and luckily everyone was okay there. And we know even in the east river there was that big crash just within the past year. Not sure right now who this helicopter belongs to, whether its a company, but we can report i believe it was our managing editor talked to the fdny, it is not an fdny helicopter. So here we go right now. These are first live pictures. This is from our tower cam. You can see a massive Emergency Response here on what appears to be 7th avenue in midtown. And whats interesting about this, i know you know, this is a challenging weather day, i think. Its too far we dont want to get too far down the road, because we dont know a cause or anything, but this makes me think this morning, i know our own chopper 4 couldnt fly for a while because of weather. Thats right. Now, obviously, the pilots know the conditions. This chopper was in the air. So presumably maybe there was clearance. But well wait to figure it out. But heres the response here in a busy midtown now, a helicopter down on the top of a building. Thats right. So as jonathan mentioned, he and the rest of our iteam are making those important phone calls right now so we can bring you the latest information and we do have crews just heading about two blocks from our location right now to where that is all going on. So as soon as they get there, and they are able to safely power up those cameras, we will hopefully have a live report for you, coming up in just the next couple of minutes. Once again, this is a story we are working several angles on. Nbcs me by phone now, nbc news ron allen, who has gone down to the scene. Ron, what are you seeing . Reporter its chaos out here. Theres a huge police presence. Everybody is staring up at this building. We are on the corner of 7th avenue and 51st street, right in the heart of midtown manhattan. Over the last half hour or so, we have seen just hundreds of people pouring out of these midtown towers, being evacuated from their work. A lot of people are out on the street during lunch hour. Police pushing people further and further back, setting up around the building and trying to keep everybody back. Telling us to go inside or just move back further. I cant see whats happening up at the building. We could see a number of firefighters racing into the building here on the corner. The building is empty. If youre not familiar with manhattan, this is how it can get in the heart of manhattan. Tens of thousands of workers here at this time of day. We dont know exactly what happened. We cant see a lot of the building as i keep looking up, everybody is looking up. It looks trying to figure out what happened. People are running all different directions. And, again, this is a huge crowd on the streets in the pouring rain, i might add, adding to the chaos and confusion about whats going on. All right. And ron, our viewers are looking at some video that you took and posted to twitter on the right side of their screens. Weve also got the scene on 7th avenue as theres a Massive Police presence. Just to let everybody know exactly what were seeing here, we have reports that a Helicopter Crashed into the roof of a building in midtown manhattan along 7th avenue. And you were just listening to ron allen, who is on the scene, talking about what he is seeing. The evacuations under way from these highrise buildings. We now have nbcs tom winter on the phone. Tom, i understand youre at the building where this has occurred. What are you seeing . Reporter thats correct. When we arrived here just about a minute ago, there was some light smoke still coming off the top of the building. But what i can tell you is from several new york city officials and Law Enforcement officials, and youll have to excuse the fire truck, this is confirmed. We have had a Helicopter Crash into the top of this building at this time. At least one injury. Obviously there will be more. The buildings have been evacuated. Right now 5th avenue, which is the heart of midtown manhattan, is shut down, and police have set up an emergency route in order to get people and city Law Enforcement officials and City Government officials into the scene. Again, confirming at least one injury at this point, and a helicopter on top of a building. Its between 51st and 52nd street along 7th avenue here in manhattan of the. All right, tom. We are going to continue. Please let us know if you have any Additional Information here. The latest from the fdnys twitter feed is that its a helicopter has crash landed. They point out, of course, there that the weather is particularly bad today in new york. I believe ali velshi, are you here . Im hearing and following this with you, kasie. You fly small aircraft . Please read us in. So the first thing we think about is weather, as you mentioned. You can see its an overcast day. Im looking at the actual weather in midtown. The visibility is less than one and a quarter miles, and the clouds are at 500 to 800 feet. Heres the interesting thing. This building into which this helicopter has apparently gone, 787 7th avenue, stands 752 feet. So its entirely possible that the top of that building was not visible to the helicopter pilot. Now, 752 feet is nowhere close to being the tallest building either in new york or manhattan, so the curiosity is, in this kind of weather, the pilot would not have been flying visually, generally speaking, right . Anybody who is above 500 feet today in an aircraft in manhattan would have to have some other form, some other way of knowing whats going on. But this is a rainy day. Its light rain at the moment. It is 6 3 degrees fahrenheit, there is mist, clauoudy, and overcast. This is the first thing we look at. Clouds between 500 and 800 feet off the ground. This building is 752 feet off the ground, which means it is entirely possible that 200 feet of this building wasnt even visible. So what we dont know yet, kasie, whether this helicopter is on top of the building or, you know, the reports from nypd, it crashed into a building, but nobody in the vicinity yet has reported seeing parts of a helicopter. What there was was a fire. So, again, a lot of information. Again ali . Yeah. Sorry to interrupt. I want to be sure. We dont know if this crashed on the roof of the building or into the building itself. Correct. We do not know, because we have not actually got reports of where the debris of this helicopter is, and as you know, this is a block and a half from where we are right now. So its midtown manhattan. If there is a piece of a helicopter on the street, were expecting to hear that from people. The other issue is fuel. The fire that people saw probably comes from the fuel in the helicopter. Thats always the single Biggest Issue when there is an Emergency Landing or out of control landing or a landing in which the pilot or the occupants are in the aircraft is getting is preventing a fire from occurring. So those are the things were wondering. Where is this kophelicopter, wh were the circumstances under which it was flying low into manhattan. Entirely possible it was a malfunction. Because it would be unreasonable to assume that unless this is an Emergency Services vehicle or Police Helicopter, which we have been told it is not, for a helicopter to be flying somewhere between 500 and 800 feet in manhattan. Typically, when there are maneuvers that have undertaken by fdny or nypd, notices of that go out so people know why there are lowflying planes in and around manhattan or central park or the east river or the hudson river. Theres been no notice of that. So we dont know what this helicopter is or what it was doing there. But 752 feet is a good size for a building. Thats 51 stories in the middle of midtown manhattan. So it would not be a logical place. Youre looking here at 7th avenue. Thats central park in front of you. Were looking north from 50th street, where we are, to central park which is 59th street, basically. When you say we, youre talking about nbc is located, of course were one city block east of where this would have taken place. I am at the corner of 6th and 50th at the moment. This took place at 7th and 51st. Were basically one city block east of it, and its a block north. So its very, very close. Its a twominute walk, threeminute walk from where we are. And so thats what were seeing. A very, very big Emergency Response. Kasie, i will remind you, one other thing. In new york, at any report of a fire, because of the density of the buildings here, you will see a very, very big fdny response, because fires can, you know, obviously engulf a building. And that engulf neighboring buildings. So firefighters in new york take any kind of fire more seriously than you would report of a fire in a less densely populated place. Of course. Between the threats of terrorism and the fears of fire, when you hear aircraft down, midtown manhattan smoke visible, you are going to see about the biggest response that youll ever see in new york. That doesnt necessarily mean that the incident is the biggest thing or we dont know what it is. But thats the response that new york Emergency Responders are trained to provide. Of course. And ali, im just going to read our viewers into what theyre looking at. Because were getting some live pictures in from our affiliate, wnbc. So were currently seeing fdny, what appear to be fdny firefighters with stretchers heading somewhere. And ali, can i just clarify one point . Yep. That you were making earlier. If youre in new york and, you know, obviously i live here in washington. So we have a pretty good sense of whats normal in terms of who flies overhead. Yep. Were listening in, actually. So sorry, ali, to governor cuomo. Stabb stand by. There was a helicopter that made a forced landing, Emergency Landing or landed on the roof of the building for one reason or another. There was a fire that happened when the helicopter hit the roof. People who were in the building said they felt the building shake. The Fire Department believes the fire is under control. There may have been casualties involved in people in the helicopter. Do we know at this point how many were on the helicopter . We do not know. But right now we believe the fire is under control. Again, casualties involved with the helicopter. We dont know what caused the helicopter to land on the top of the building. But people in the building itself, nobody has been hurt. Some people have been evacuated. This is all very preliminary, and the Fire Department is just in the midst of responding right now as we speak. Governor, i wonder what goes through your mind when there is an aircraft into a building . Theyre not defining it as either a hard landing or Emergency Landing. Just that the helicopter landed on to use a word to the rooftop of the building, which caused the fire. What went on in this building . I dont know. But obviously it created a fire. So it was not a routine landing. Governor, were also what went through your mind . What do you presume went through the minds of people in new york . Well, look, this is if youre a new yorker, you have a level of ptsd, right, from 9 11. And i remember that morning all too well. So as soon as you hear an aircraft hit a building, i think my mind goes where every new yorkers mind goes. But at this point, there is no indication. At this point, there is no indication that that is the case. The only indication was a helicopter had to do an emergency or a hard landing or crash on to the rooftop of the building, causing a fire. But theres no indication of anything more than that. Again, this is all very preliminary. And the situations evolve very quickly, as we know. But thats all we know at this time. Governor, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, governor cuomo. We appreciate your time. As you just heard the governor say, he is being told that it was a helicopter so, again, back here now, still live are we still live . Yeah, we hear you, sara. Reporter were we connected then . Sara, can you hear us . All right. Sara might be having some audio issues there. There are a lot of reporters in the area. We were just hearing there from the governor of new york, andrew cuomo, who, of course, referenced being a new yorker on 9 11, and the idea that a crash of some kind into a highrise building evokes a lot of very difficult memories. Of course, the details that we have so far, the governor said suggest that this was a helicopter trying to make a landing on the roof, and our jonathan dienst at wnbc says it was a helicopter trying to make a hard landing on the roof of this building. A fire resulted. Jonathan dienst is reporting one person is injured. Dienst is again reporting no fatalities at this time. The governor did reference some casualties, so were going to try and learn more. Right now new york officials are saying that there is one person hurt here. Ali, i want to go back to you. Yep. What was your takeaway from what the governor had to say just there, and, you know, to reference his point, as i was asking you before, whats normal if youre living in new york city for what should be flying overhead and for Something Like this to possibly happen . Yeah, so there are very strict regulations about whats normal. And i will say, the thing i take away from the governor im actually at a little more peace. That it was a forced landing means a pilot meant to do this, they knew where they were going. So this pilot attempted to put this helicopter down on the top of a tall building. We dont know what sort of success he met with he oh r e met with. It does not seem there is a fatality, which is great news. You cannot land a helicopter on a building in new york. That has been the says since may 16th of 1977, when there was a Company Called New York Airways that crashed a building a helicopter on the top of what was the pan am building, now the new york met building. And since then, that has been banned. Uber is actually trying to get that ban lifted, because it wants to have helicopters, but you do not see, generally speaking, lowflying helicopters over manhattan. There are news helicopters, Police Helicopters, people with special permits. But theyve got to be fairly high up in order to do that. So 750 feet is high up for most people. In manhattan, not that high. So it would be very surprising to see a helicopter at that height in manhattan that was not a Police Helicopter. And its just dangerous. Whether authorized to do it or not, midtown manhattan is a lot of buildings, this isnt the tallest around. The good news, it was a forced landing, which means a trained pilot was attempted to do something. Actually trying to do this. Good news. Tom costello, i know youve been covering the story from our bureau. What do you know at this point about this situation . Yes, weve talked to the ntsb, they are monitoring, have not dispatched a go team. One may think they may. But this would appear a critical emergency as it relates to an aviation investigation. The faa also monitoring the situation. So this is very much the fdnys operation right now. A hard landing is certainly preferable to a crash. And we should stress the point, this is not it would appear is not a crash. It is a hard landing, in which we may have an injury or two. But no fatalities. And you talk about how there just simply isnt a lot of helicopter traffic over manhattan these days, and especially over the trump tower since mr. Trump became president. That has also been air space that has been restricted. So the i would think that at the moment, all of the news would suggest it is good news insofar as the severity of this accident. And we had a twoalarm fdny response with a very heavy, as you can see, very heavy Emergency Response from firefighters and rescue personnel, very, very quickly on the ground. You know, the other point i was in, as im sure you were, as well, i was in times square on 9 11, and i think for anybody who was there then, they have been haunted ever since by the possibility of another similar event. And as you probably heard from governor cuomo, alluding to that, and so this always causes everybodys hearts to skip a beat when there is any sort of aviation incident around new york city, whether its in the hudson river, east river or you may recall back in 2006 we had a Small Plane Crash into a highrise on the upper east side. There was a new york yankee on board that plane. Thankfully, it appears today this was a forced landing and could not have probably gone any better for the people on board, at least thats the reporting as of this moment. Yeah. And tom, i think thats so important to underscore. And, again, just for anyone just joining us, we are covering what we now know was a hard landing of a helicopter on top of 787 7th avenue. The Equitable Center in new york. Its a 54floor building. There are a host of tenants that occupy this building, commonwealth partners, theres a branch of citi bank, the labor and ardean, at the center of manhattan. Tom, you mentioned the air space is restricted, particularly around trump tower. Trump tower very close to where this happened. Absolutely right. So i think well be all interested to know exactly what was the flight plane for this chopper, and why and how this pilot found the need to put down on top of a skyscraper. We simply dont have the answer to that. Usually these choppers are moving up and down the rivers, the hudson river and east river. And we have had accidents and disasters in both of those rivers related to helicopters in the past. You may recall over the hudson river a number of years ago, we had two helicopters crash into each other. And on the east river, helicopters go down in the river. So to have an incident actually on top of a skyscraper over the central part of manhattan if youre not from new york or dont travel there often. That is dead center in the middle of manhattan, where this incident occurred. So why this helicopter was trafficking where it was is going to be something that many people will be asking. All right. Tom, ive totally got to let you go. Back to our friends over on the nbc news network. Thank you very much. Always great to have you. Ali velshi, let me go back to you and pick up there. You are on the ground in new york. Where are you in relation to where this has happened, to trump tower yep. And have you gotten any more answers yet why this helicopter was where it was. No, but i am looking at the weather outside and the weather on the apps that tell pilots whats going on and it does look like the visibility was very, very low. The pilot of this helicopter was not probably flying. You cant do this. Flying under visual rules above manhattan. In other words, they probably had some sort of a gps or something that indicated to them i think well find a story of a very skilled priority, understanding they were losing their engine or had some kind of fuel problem, had to make a decision as to where you put a plane down in new york. And that is not an obvious matter. On top of all these buildings in new york, there are antennas, water towers. It is a hard business to put a helicopter down in a crowded city which has forbidden helicopter landing since 1977. This accident has happened on 7th avenue, major thorough fair in new york, south of central park. Less than ten blocks south of central park. We at nbc news are one block east of that. Were at 60th 50th street and 6th avenue. This is at 51st street and 7th avenue. So literally a block over and a block south from where this is. So this is as tom said, this is the middle of manhattan. This is you would call it times square, because a couple blocks lower than 51st street is really where you start seeing the souvenir shops and all of the things you associate with times square, but this would readily be referred to as times square. For all the tourists in new york, 7th avenue is where you go. So this is a very, very big deal when you hear of an accident, you see the police and fire response in midtown manhattan. The governor said it, everybody in the city has ptsd about what happened with 9 11. So this is always first concern. Was it deliberate or an accident . It seems from the reporting were getting and the fact that its bad weather outside and very low visibility and that somebody put a helicopter squarely down on the top of a tall manhattan building, this was a deliberate attempt to forceland a helicopter in a situation in which the helicopter had probably failed in some way. There was some kind of problem. We dont know anything about the helicopter. We do not have any reports of debris around the building. So its entirely possible this was a full landing on top of the building. The governor used the term hard landing. Thats not an official term, so we dont know what that means. It means probably didnt go as carefully as one would have expected. But to have a helicopter run into a control problem or power problem over manhattan is a serious issue. This is not the tallest building in the area, but 752 feet, which is 51 stories tall. So kasie, hard to imagine the peril when youre in the middle of manhattan and lose power. If you dont have control over your helicopter trying to get it between buildings, its particularly perilous. So this pilot may have made the decision thats what i can do. I can get this plane down on a building. Theres a building, it looks clear. Were putting it town. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense ali. I want to bring in bill bratton, joining me by phone. Former commissioner of the new york department. Mr. Commissioner, thanks for calling in to talk to us about. And, you know, i think as ali mentioned, for anyone who is a new yorker and for those of us americans hawho were i of cours watching that terrible day on 11th. Governor cuomo talking about how every time there is an incident like this, it seems we are starting to learn that this was instead a controlled accident, if you will of a forced landing in bad weather. That seems to be at least the preliminary that is an expression we use in policing. That the first story is never the last story. I think well see that will be the case here. Some of the initial reports were very confusing. Evens to the idea is there a fatality or not. Early reports from injured person, and at least one fatality, which may be the pilot. Until we get the next official comments from somebody at the scene, whether the police, fire, governor or mayor, we wont be able to confirm that. But fortunately, this is not as bad as it might have been. Move tarps on building in new york city, all types of control systems, et cetera, on them. And theyre not glass surfaces like they are in leaning, whereby law Tall Buildings in l. A. Had to have a landing pad on them. We were Police Helicopters. That is not the case. No building in manhattan that i helicopter landing on it. So this basically should basically maybe make the decision to get down to a building rather than fortunately getting down to the treat. Its walltowall people, walltowall cars. And mr. Commissioner, whats the whats the protocol for how the police force interacts with these keeps of vehicles . I mean, we have been discussing this the fact this very to the trump tower in manhattan, which has had very ticketed air space. States. Well, its two blocks over to Seventh Avenue to fifth, and five blocks off the trump tower, so very close proximity to it am. Air flights over manhattan are restricted particularly in that area because of the president s residence. In terms of the idea of police response, fire response, new york is probably the best prepared city in america. A lot of this coming out of the horrific events of 9 11. And as clearly indicated on your screen as youre seeing the amount of emergency vehicles that are there, that this is a city that when something happens they get in there very quickly, get it under control and deal with it. What will happen next year with the citys Investigative Services as they try to figure out what went wrong . This will end up being taken over by the federal government for several reasons, for anything involving planes, helicopters, et cetera, then it becomes the domain of the federal government to investigate. So police and fire, initial response, traffic control, fire for any types of potential hazards from out of this, they will diminish moving from potential rescue response to investigatory, but the investigation will be the domain of the federal government. It certainly will be because of the concern about how close this is to trump tower, that there may be an element of the secret Service Getting into it to make a determination this was in fact an accident. What in fact was this helicopter doing in that area. And this is all information that i think will come out fairly quickly. Where did the flight emanate from, where was he attempting to go and what did in fact happen . As recently seen in new york several of these helicoptertype incidents, we had a tourist helicopter up on the east river. And then as recently about a week or two ago you may recall we had one on the hudson where a helicopter made an Emergency Landing on the middle of the hudson river. So these things in new york city are not, unfortunately unique. Theres three of them in the last couple of years now. And we do have information that fdny has confirmed one person has died in this hard landing of a helicopter on a roof, just a few blocks away from trump tower. And mr. Bratten, for americans who arent necessarily used to having helicopters fly to and fro from their cities and towns, what kind of helicopter traffic does new york city see . Who might be in the skies at any given time . Well, on the east river here in manhattan you have two authorized landing sites that are used for significant tourist helicopter flights as well as indicating private, executive types. Also police departments. I frequently flew out of them when i was Police Commissioner. On the west side there was also authorized helicopter landing pad for exactly the same purpose. But those flights invariably take off and go along the rivers and dont come into the city. Unlike los angeles whereas police chief a few years ago, l. A. Helicopter traffic is all over the city. Particularly Police Helicopter traffic. At any given time theres three or four Police Helicopters up in the air. And until recently by and large in los angeles tall billings had to be flat roofs so that police and fire could land on the roofs for emergency purposes, fire suppression, et cetera. That has never been the case in new york. And in fact a number of years ago there was a horrific accident on what they call the building right here on fifth avenue where a helicopter attempted to land onto that building literally fell off and down onto fifth avenue. Since that time helicopters have not been allowed to land in manhattan as a result of that horrific accident a number of years ago. Its been great. Your insights very, very helpful. Please stick with us if youre able to. We want to listen in though with cathy park whos on the scene here. Shes talking to eyewitnesses. All right, ashley, it seems as though shes concluded those interviews as well. Ali velshi, are you still with us . Yes, i am. And ive been listening to interest to what the commissioner was saying. Theres a couple of interesting points here. He said first we have to find out what the helicopter was doing there. Because it is unusual for a helicopter to be at 800 feet around manhattan. Thats a perilous and dangerous exercise. There are some restrictions above manhattan largely because of its proximity to laguardia. Most of the 9 11 related restricts over manhattan are gone, but it is a heavily heavily trafficked airspace. So what was the helicopter doing there, was this and what then happened to the helicopter that caused it to land . Was it a case of good piloting, the pilot was able to put it on top of a building and now youve said weve learned one person has been killed. This isnt a case of oh, the helicopter is down, were solving it, were done. In new york there shouldnt be a helicopter landing on a building. The commissioner made a reference to a panam building in 1977 in which people were killed on top of the building. And that is why helicopters cant land on buildings in new york unless its a maneuver by police or military by special arrangement or the fact that when donald trump is here certain arrangements can be made. So until that is answered, and we may have that answer within a few hours, because obviously that is the thing police and authorities want to understand. Who was in the helicopter, what was it there for . Was this simply a helicopter thats lost control or lost power or lost fuel that had to find a place to come down. Remember youre looking north here to less than ten blocks away would have been central park. There are places in central park without trees. In theory if helicopters are coming down people could clear out. But new york is not an easy place to land a helicopter, certainly not an easy place to land a plane. When youre training in piloting youre always taught about that. These helicopters should be much much higher in altuld. They shouldnt be anywhere close to 800 or 1,000 feet. This building was at 752 feet. If there was an emergency call well know that fairly soon from airtraffic control and the faa. Did someone collin saying they had an emergency, because in a place like new york you stand to face a lot of danger if you dont call out youre having an emergency because sometimes the assumption will be its a terrorist attack or its a nefarious act. So i think while it looks like things might be calming down on Seventh Avenue, police and those investigating are probably in overtime now trying to get complete answer as to who was this pilot, why was this helicopter there, was it somewhere it was supposed to be or not and what happened to the helicopter. Because obviously an aircraft going down over manhattan is a serious matter not just for terrorism concerns but just because this is the most densely populated place in the country. Of course its incredibly dangerous. Jow answered my question whether there would have been that emergency call. Just for any of our viewers who are tuning in, of course, we are still covering the hard landing of a helicopter. The fdny says one person has been killed. This was on the roof of a building in Seventh Avenue. Our White House Team now reporting the president of the United States has been briefed on this crash and is monitoring it from the white house. Weve also had some our reporters on the ground who have had conversations with some people coming out of this building. This of course prompted massive evacuatio evacuations along Seventh Avenue after reports of the fire first came out. Lets take a look at what some of those people had to say. I didnt see anything. I was inside the building and i just felt it drop a little and everybody ran out and we got evacuated. Reporter and did you know what had happened . Did you hear anything . Did an alarm go off in your building . No, it was a sound. Like you felt Something Like i cant explain it. It wasnt like a slight movement. Its like something hit it or fell off the building. I dont know, but we all just ran out. And there was some smoke it looked like from the top. It was just shaking, just shaking and i got nervous and they evacuated everybody. So we dont know what to do. What was going through your mind when you heard that . 9 11. It was kind of scary. We didnt know what was going on. Now were showing you some video that was taken by a bystander of the sort of moment of the crash. Its a little hard to see there but look at the top of your screen. This of course also helps you understand the weather in new york was really as ali velshi has been noting, visibility very low, very difficult to see. So this apparently, kind of the moments that this hard landing actually occurred, joining me now by phone former ntsb member ntsb is of course monitoring this situation. How should we expect this investigation to unfold . Well, given the location and given the fact theres a fatality in new york city and it would appear that this was not a hard landing, this was a crash landing. I believe they will at least have an investigation. It may not be a full goteam. It may be a limited goteam, but its pretty clear they willv hae an investigation opened on this event. And how does it work with the ntsb, the former Police Commissioner mentioned the u. S. Secret service could be involved because of how close this is to the Trump Administration. What does Something Like that look like when it is in such a sensitive area . Basically by law the ntsb takes control of the accident site. And its considered to be an accident until the attorney general notifies the ntsb its a crime scene. So itll proceed as an accident until enough facts are discovered to change the status. And what that means is that since the ntsb uses what they call the potty systarty system, police could be a party, secret service could be a party, secret service but tsa could be if they want to be a party to the investigation. I think in an event like this were going to see a lot of agencies that want to participate in this. But initially from what ive heard youre reporting it sounds to me like this may have been something akin to an engine failure, transmission failure on the helicopter that may have been at altitude and passing over new york city above the restricted airspace and ran into a problem and had to put down. And he accomplished an auto rotation, which is a little too complicated to explain on the air. But an auto rotation oftentimes ends in a very hard landing resulting in lots of damage to the vehicle and even fatalities. So its all premature at this point. The only thing i think we can say for sure is that the ntsb will be watching this fairly closely. Thank you very much for your insights today. Joining me now near the scene nbc news kathy park. Youve been talking with bystanders. What have you learned . Reporter thats right. So im standing here at 52nd and seventh and the crash happened right behind me. And 30 minutes ago you were explaining to me that you felt the building shake. So describe exactly what happened, what you saw, what you felt . So basically it was a regular day. Its more busier than usual, but i dont know like all the customers and employees felt like the building shake. We didnt know what it was at first and so we heard security on the speaker saying that there was an evacuation, an maermemer vacation, all personnel evacuate the building. I told all our customers, everybody in the building to leave. Right now theyre checking to see if everybody is out of the building. Also i heard that the pilot is okay, so thats what iheard. Yeah, reports are still developing so right now were trying to get that information confirmed. But you were on the first floor and you still felt the building shake. Yeah, we felt the building shake but it wasnt like a heavy shake. It was just like a tumble and i thought it maybe could have been an earthquake or something but sources say it was a Helicopter Crash on top of the building. And you were just one of hundreds of people that just evacuated the building. Yeah, everybody evacuated nice and peaceful. There was no commotion, thank god. Nobody got hurt, but as i said a pilot crashing into a building is the firefighters they came in like 20 they just went in full force. I thought maybe it was a gas explosion or something, but i dont know. Reporter raphael, thank you so much for talking to us. And were kind of in a holding pattern, too, kasie. A lot of the buildings have been evacuated. Emergency responders are just spread out across this area, and you mentioned the weather has just been pretty awful. I mean the rain has been pouring down so people have been standing in this weather for quite some time. We dont know exactly when these folks will pea able to get back in. But that seems to be the story people are telling me. People have been out here for several minutes now. They felt some sort of shake or rumble and they were forced to evacuate, and here we are. Thank you for walking us through all of that. Whats the sense now on the street of the level of kind of concern, anxiety . I mean as many of our guests have noted, as weve been covering this throughout this hour there are obviously a lot of things that come up for new yorkers, when Something Like this happens theres a lot of memories of 9 11. We saw those sort of rushed evehicles, right, at the building. Are people starting to feel calmer . Whats your sense on the street . No, i have to agree with you. Things are definitely a lot calmer. It seems like people are going back to wherever they came from, but were told that evacuations are still in place. Just minutes after we found out this helicopter landed or crashed in the building there was panic and there was a lot of chaos and the mood was definitely different. But it seems people have spread out, but media has kind of converged in this area. Were talking to folks. But its interesting a lot of the people we spoke with are telling us, you know, Emergency Responders acted quickly and they felt safe, they felt like they were in good hands. How wide were those evacuations, was it just the building where this happened, neighboring buildings as well . How many people are we talking about . Reporter so we just got onto the scene. And just kind of based on what we have seen in the past several minutes its just several blocks around where we are standing right now. They might have expanded the evacuations and put more barricades up, but from our point its still unclear how far it stretches. We have nypd, firefighters, several agencies on the scene still. Nbcs kathy park. Thank you so much. Keep us posted. If you get anything new from the scene well talk to you. But joining me now nbcs hans nichols at the white house. Reporter mike pence is saying there are no indications this was an act of terrorism. Our own Kristen Welker was just having a discussion with him. Pence saying no indications. The early indications are this was not terrorism. So, yes, the west wing is really monitoring this. Theyre watching this closely. President trump obviously knows the area well because trump tower is just a couple of blocks from where this hard landing and crash happened. But the early reports of the white house receiving this is no indication of terrorism and they continue to monitor this situation. Weve been talking quite a bit about how this is very, very close just blocks from trump tower in manhattan. Reporter nothing from secret service just yet. Typically they have different sorts of threat assessments. They tend to always have a presence in a place where the president has a permanent residence. It is an issue and an area of concern for the secret service. The president and here safely in the white house. Joining me now again to nbc news correspondent tom costello. Tom, youve been working the phones and i know reporting on this. Weve since learned since you and i last talked and i think you reported this is hard landing. Weve also learned there is one confirmed fatality according to the fdny. What else have you learned . The fdny saying theyre also working to contain the fuel spill. As you look at at that picture i think its hard for us to decipher whether thats smoke coming off the top of the building or whether clouds and fog. But it certainly has the look to me of smoke, and that means the fire was not insignificant, that it was more than just a small fire as the chopper came down on the roof. We dont know why that chopper was over manhattan. As you know or as weve discussed there is a moratorium or restrictions in place about helicopter travel over Central New York city. As for the weather at the time, the most important point is that the ceiling as evidenced by the photograph, the ceiling is really rather low, only about 55 let me doublecheck that. 600 feet was the ceiling. Thats where the cloud cover would have started according to the weather service. And as you can see a significant second alarm response by the fdny with times square blanketed with various fire stations in the area. The question is going to be why was this helicopter pilot over this part of the city to begin with when he should not have been unless he had some special permission to do so. Most of the helicopter travel over newark city is really off to the side, the east river and over across the hudson river as well. A lot of questions about that on a very difficult day for flying conditions to begin with. With the channel 4 helicopter in new york city really unable to fly earlier in the day because of the low cloud cover. Yeah, thats a great point. And for those who perhaps not as familiar as we might be with the geography of manhattan, you make a really good point because its blanketed on either side by rivers. Seventh avenue really kind of right dab smack center in between them. So, tom, at what point bill bratten or one of our earlier guests was making the point there may be a decision this was a crime scene instead of an accident scene which would involve police and fire. At what point does a determination like that get made . Reporter so this will be an fdny and nypd investigation. You may have the ntsb come in and investigate and the faa come in and investigate. But if there is any hint of anything criminal, then youll have the nypd leading this investigation. And ultimately the information that is gleaned by aviation crash investigators will be processed through the nypd investigation. But its really a bit too early to say that that the moment. Theyre still in the midst of the emergency, and as always its the emergency commander on the scene whos in charge until that is contained and then crash investigators can begin piecing through. Now, if the pilot is the fatality, that makes this more difficult because they need firsthand information. And its unlikely that there is a black box recording onboard this chopper. And so as a result youre really going to be trying to glean what information you can from his or her air Traffic Communications with airtraffic controllers as well as what the passenger onboard may have been aware of. But if the pilot is the fatality, that really makes investigating this more difficult, and therefore theyre going to have to really try to go piecemeal investigating the engine, looking for any sign of problem that may have forced this helicopter down. Weve got a tweet from the president. Phenomenal job by First Responders who are currently on the scene. Thank you for all you do 24 7, 365. The Trump Administration stands ready should you need anything at all. And reporting the Vice President telling our Kristen Welker there dont seem to be any indications this is terrorism. We just spotted the mayor of new york city, bill de blasio, passing by cameras. Also a president ial candidate at this point. And earlier on we also saw andrew cuomo, the governor of new york who stopped to talk and again recalled 9 11. How much of a response we were seeing, this is a massive overwhelming response immediately in the face of what you described as a pretty significant fire caused by this hard landing how much of that comes out of the terrible memories of september 11th . Listen, thats part of it. And in fact i was just a few blocks away on 9 11, so that has continued to weigh on and haunt people of new york city ever since, and as a result of course the fdny and nypd really have a very robust approach to any emergency. Im sure tom winter will tell you the same thing. Nypd and fdny will come in and hit it with a sledgehammer. I mean this is a full response all the time in new york city. They do not allow incidents to get bigger than they need to be. They contain it immediately, and youve got one of the best Fire Departments in the world responding to this. I would think the other thing theyre going to look at is given the weather, given the low ceiling, given the fact this is an area of airspace that is restricted, did the pilot somehow become disoriented, was he not aware of wheree was, all of that would play into what mighdetermine what caused this chopper to do a hard landing on top of the roof. Thank goodness that it was on top of the roof and the chopper didnt go all the way down to the street. Because you would have then a potential for mass casualties if this chopper were to have gone all the way down to the street. And one last point. For those of you, and im not from new york city, im from denver. So ive spent the last 20 something years on the east coast. And i think its helpful for those people outside new york city to get a bit of perspective. This area of manhattan is pretty much right dead center in the middle of manhattan. Its very close to