Early april. At least one intercepted call made to a phone line associated with cohen came from the white house. So, the big question we are asking today what do the revelations about the kocohen wiretap mean for the president . More with the reporter who broke this story straight ahead. If tirs, it first it is imp note the news comes quickly after other news, the president s attorney, Rudy Giuliani, an interview on the Fox News Channel where he either veered off script or introduced a new legal strategy for the Trump Legal Team. Pay this Stormy Daniels woman 130,000 which is going to turn out to be perfectly legal. That money was not campaign money. Sorry, im giving you a fact now that you dont know. Its not campaign money. No Campaign Finance violation. So they fumed it through a law firm. Funneled it through a law firm and the president repaid it. To our team of reporters, analysts and guests. Nbc news correspondent Kelly Odonnell at the white house and here, tom winter who broke the news about cohen and this wiretap. The Washington Post robert costa who has reaction from Rudy Giuliani. Daniel goldman, former assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york. And Michael Avenatti, that is the lawyer for Stormy Daniels. Thanks to all of you for being with us. Tom, let me start with you. To refresh and reset the news here, wiretapped. We dont know how long this wiretap was there on the phones nor Michael Cohen but we know there was one. What can you tell us about it . The reporting from myself and my colleague, is this there was a wiretap, a courtapproved federal wiretap of Michael Cohens phone lines, plural, phone lines, plural, and that that wiretap was going on for at least several weeks before the search warrant. And that that wiretap was able to pick up a phone call from one of Michael Cohens phone lines to the white house. So thats information that were reporting today. Thats new. Thats kind of the high point of that. In addition to that, we have he a learned that the president s attorney, Rudy Giuliani, has advised the president once he came on the team, hey, you shouldnt be talking with Michael Cohen on the phone, that could become a problem for you. Thats also some new information today. So thats kind of the recap of the high points. Details here, too, about a phone call from the white house being made to one of cohens lines. I wouldnt necessarily characterize it that way. I would say that there was a phone conversation between one of Michael Cohens phone lines and the white house that was recorded. So you do not know who the parties were on either end necessarily. Not information that im reporting at this time. Okay. Robert costa, i know you have talked in the last few minutes with Rudy Giuliani. What is he saying about all of this . Hes the president lead attorney on the russia probe dealing with bob mueller but also dealing with the cohen situation. He said if this report is true, he has not been formally told about it from the federal government. He said if it is true, two represent, quote, government misconduct. He sounded angry as i read him the nbc news story over the phone. He said that attorneyclient privilege has now been eviscerated, not only by the raid of federal investigators of cohens hotel and offices, but just by this act, if it is accurate, which i trust nbc news. But giuliani hasnt been told. You have to believe the president has been informed at some level as the president if this was going on. Has he spoken with the president at all after hearing of this news . I caught him when he was outside. He said he was about to call the president after he spoke with me. He said he would call back if the president had an update. But you have to understand about giuliani and President Trump is that they are generational peers. They share a perspective on the department of justice that is, to say the least, quite negative at this moment. I would not be surprised if you see the president share mayor giulianis concerns. Daniel, first help us understand the process. The reporting that this wiretap existed. In jegeneral when you hear this kind of news, what does it tell us about what was going on here, what about the feds might have known . The first takeaway i have is that this means that there were ongoing criminal violations at the time of the wiretap, which, as we know, is far after the time of the Stormy Daniels payment. So what this tells me and weve speculated about this a lot over the past few weeks is that theres far more to this investigation than Campaign Finance violations in advance of the 2016 election. The other thing that jumped out at me, if as tom is reporting it is only a few weeks since the wiretap is up, thats an indications of two things either of two things. One, that the wiretap was not very fruitful, which you might expect in this situation where Michael Cohen knows that there is an investigation into russia and thats very close to him, you would not ordinarily expect someone to be talking on their phone in a criminal nature. But the fact that there was a wiretap indicates that very recently there were criminal conversations. You need to have criminal conversations in order to get up on a wiretap and you need to know that. The other alternative is the reason for the short duration is that they got indication that there was going to be some kind of a disruption of evidence or other significant event that meant that they had to turn what was a covert investigation into an overt investigation by executing the search warrants when they did. What about what robert costa is saying from Rudy Giulianis standpoint saying there is an objection. Two things. First, this eviscerates attorneyclient privilege, saying he is objecting on those grounds, and he is also saying the president should have been told if there was a communication that was captured. I dont know where Rudy Giuliani is getting this information. Rudy giuliani was the u. S. Attorney at the office that i served in for ten years in the 1980s. That is just simply false. He and his assistants got hundreds and hundreds of wiretaps at the time, and the law has not changed that much to today. It is absolutely not an ev eviseration of attorneyclient privilege. The Department Department runs the risk if they dont. Thats why it is called the taint team. Because if there is attorneyclient privilege information that goes into the investigation, that taints the whole investigation and pretty much squashes it. And then to say that trump should be notified, thats absolutely contrary to all law. In fact i think Michael Avenatti said this earlier. It is a law itself to it is a violation of law itself to disclose the existence of a wiretap. So this is pr spin from someone who i admire greatly as the u. S. Attorney from the office i served in. But is just off on this one. Let me go over to you, Kelly Odonnell at the white house. Again, if theyre on schedule this afternoon, were about 20 minutes away from hearing from Sarah Sanders. The briefing was originally set at 2 00 p. M. Then they announced it would now be 2 30, so there could be, in terms of the prep that the press secretary goes through on a daily basis, consumption of this news that youve been talking about, trying to tailor a response. The most expected response would be to simply kick this over to the president s outside lawyer since it involves Michael Cohen. But there will be some question and answer related to this, especially on that point of a known call that is associated as tom has been describing it, with a white house number and Michael Cohen. And anecdotally, we have heard from friends of the president that he often uses his cell phone to make phone calls. So that would, i presume, not be a white house number. But there are certainly so many office lines that are even available, including those in the White House Counsels Office where there might have been a more businesslike association between those lines. Thats just all things we will wait to learn more about. Today the president has been talking about the new giuliani strategy in a series of tweets that were an explanation trying to explain the real discrepancy between what he had said publicly, what hes authorized the white house to say publicly and lawyers have in the past, and now this acknowledgement that the money was in fact the president s own money. He talks about the retainer. And notably says this is a practice of celebrity and wealthy people to have these nondisclosure agreementsnothing the campaign. Thats the argument here. As a candidate he can float as much money as he chooses into the campaign. That would not on its face be a violation, but there are other ways that the federal Election Commission could look at these transactions as all the facts come out to see if there are improper actions here, including not reporting this payment. So the president s view at this point, via twitter, is that the Michael Cohen retainer on a monthly basis was a means for him to be the fixer without necessarily the president knowing about each transaction at the time. Weve reached out to the president s lawyers. Weve reached out to the white house. No comment yet. But i think you will be watching along with us when the press secretary takes to the lectern here we think at 2 30, unless we get an update pushing it back further. Kelly, yes, well continue to keep an eye on that podium, bring folks whatever the white house has to say about this. You mentioned the case here of Stormy Daniels. We have the lawyer for Stormy Daniels, Michael Avenatti, with us. Michael, couple things. First, were all speculating here. I wonder if you have any intel on this, do you have any sense that the wiretapped conversations, wiretapped materials, involve your case at all . I dont want to get into too many details about what we know or dont know. Have to be respect if lthe process. What i will say is we have little doubt that there were communications in the months of february, march and april relating to our case, relating to our demand for various documents from my clients previous attorney, mr. Davidson, who was in communication with Michael Cohen about our claims and about the prior negotiation, et cetera. We know that for a fact. We also know for a fact that there was a electronic surveillance of emails and text messages. We were not aware of the phone tap until the reporting by nbc moments ago, an hour ago, thereabouts. But needless to say, i dont think in he of this bodes well for mr. Cohen. I dont think any of it bodes well for mr. Trump. I think it will ultimately bode very well for us and our prospects and our case. And im going to go back to what ive said pretty consistently, and that is there is zero county in my mind Michael Cohen will ultimately be charged with very seeress crimes and theres zero doubt he is going to roll over on the president. You say emails and texts that are related to your case . Yes. How do you know that . Im not going to get into how i know that but i know that. Let me ask you what we heard from Rudy Giuliani last night. Were getting some conflicting signals between what the president is saying on twitter and what Rudy Giuliani is saying. One of the things that giulianis comments last night suggest about this payment is a bit of a change in posture potentially from the president. Where before this agreement this 130,000 payment to your client, he seemed to be maintaining publicly that he had no idea about any kind of agreement like that. He was not a party to it, essentially. Giuliani, with these comments now suggesting maybe the president was a party to that. If the president ents if tha becomes the posture, the president says, okay, i was a party to this agreement, are you concerned as the lawyer for Stormy Daniels that he could then enforce this arbitration agreement . No, not at all. There are a number of reasons the agreement is unenforceable. In many ways, because he claims he knew about it, strengthens our case. Lets not use words seems to suggest, or may be contrary. Lets call it what it is. It is a lie. These are repeated lies to the American People. The president stood on air force one and lied to the American People. Lets call it what it is. Lets not sugar coat this. Lets not be hesitant. Lets not be worried about offending somebody. You cannot reconcile what happened on air force one on videotape with what mr. Giulia in i said last night on Sean Hannitys show. Then he doubled down on fox and friends earlier today. Those two are irreconcilable. Theyre directly contrary. And i dont believe that mr. Giuliani went out on some lark last night and this morning and just went off in a moment of being detached made these statements. I think it is pretty clear what happened here. The white house and mr. Trump and mr. Giuliani came to the conclusion that sooner rather than later we were going to get the information and the evidence in order to make this case to the American People. Or the attorneys from the Southern District of new york, it was going to come to light in connection with that investigation. They made an effort by way of mr. Giulianis comments last night and this morning on a friendly news network to get out in front of this, to try to put their own spin on it. But the problem is that you have the last two to three months since february when the wall street journal broke the story, you have two to three months of repeated lies, misrepresentations, half truths, carried out by Michael Cohen, Michael Cohens lawyers, miss sanders, others in the white house, and donald trump on air force one. I mean enough is enough. Im tired of hearing people sugar coat this. Lets call it what it is. An absolute lie. Whats the end game then . If this ends up in a place where the president is basically saying he was a party to this agreement, he did strike the agreement, is the end game here legally this is a Campaign Finance violation . I think there could be a number of earned games here. There very well could be Campaign Finance violations. Rudy giuliani, not only does he appear to have forgotten what he lrnd when learned when he was the u. S. Attorney for the Southern District, for get the existence of wiretaps and that in and of itself is a crime, he appears to have forgotten what Campaign Finance laws are all about. It is not just whether Campaign Dollars are used. There is a whole host of other criminal activity that can result or be brought in connection with various Campaign Finance provisions as it relates to how this payment was handled, whether it was reimbursed, et cetera. Theres potential bank fraud charges. Money laundering charges. Let me ask this very simple question. I think people need to focus on this. All right. If the 130,000 reimbursement was above board and there was nothing untoward about it, and it was not designed to circumvent Campaign Finance law, Money Laundering requirements or otherwise, then why wasnt just a 130,000 wire or check paid for reimbursement . Why was it paid through this scheme, this mechanism of paying these law firm retainers . And it appears to have been a structured transaction. It doesnt make any sense. If it is above board, you accepted a wire or check for 130,000 and you call it a day. Danny, let me ask you about this. Ive heard this suggested and curious your response to it. Maybe one of the strategies the Trump Legal Team is moving toward with these comments is essentially reach a point where they admit there is some kind of Campaign Finance violation but the penalty for a Campaign Finance violation compared to potentially getting on the stand and potentially being deposed and perjuring yourself and falling into a perjury trap on that subject, comparatively the penalty for a Campaign Finance violation not nearly as severe. That may be the case. But Rudy Giuliani is asserting there was no Campaign Finance violation. Michael is exactly right. Rudy giuliani is improperly and incorrectly focused on whether or not the Campaign Paid the funds. Thats not what the violation is. Its whether or not anybody paid funds to cover this up in advance of the election and related to the election. And either exceeded the limit that they are allowed to give, which is Michael Cohen, or failed to disclose the contribution to the campaign which would be donald trump. So its not even a function of whether or not the Campaign Paid the money. Nobody said the Campaign Paid out the money. So it is a legal sleight of hand. The Campaign Violation question comes in if there was some sort of accounting maneuver where the consideration was political, campaign related, the data with the election producing, did it constitute an inkind contribution, something along those lines . I think whats really going on here is that i suspect that donald trump is saying two things. One is, if i repay the money, if i didnt know about the payment before election and i repay it after, there is no obligation on me to disclose it before the election so it cant be a Campaign Finance violation. The second thing that hes trying to do is take some of the heat off of Michael Cohen, put it back on himself, i think in an effort to convince Michael Cohen, through the airways, through twitter or otherwise, not to cooperate, and that if he takes some of the responsibility for this, that maybe Michael Cohen feels like he doesnt need to cooperate. My thank you to nbcs Kelly Odonnell, robert costa, Michael Avenatti, tom winter, Daniel Goldman, thank you all. Up next, a man who had the ear of the president , alan dershowitz. He joins us with his reaction to the breaking news. Back a of a quick break as we continue to wait for the White House Press briefing. A well see if they are on schedule. Should be about ten minutes from now. Ng thats going on in the company. 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You are looking live at the podium there. We will bring you to that when it begins. All of this coming as nbc news has learned that federal investigators have tapped the phones of President Trumps lawyer, Michael Cohen. At least one phone call between a phone line associated with cohen and the president was intercepted. Joining me now on the phone by skype, excuse me allellaa dershowi dershowitz. Known to have the president s ear. Thank you for joining us, professor. Your reaction to this news . I think we are moving closer and closer to the surveillance state where phone calls are tapped, where emails are secured without a real basis. Think prosecutors should not be seeking wiretaps on lawyers offices an search warrants and subpoenas for lawyers, email files, unless they have very substantial evidence of very serious crimes, Campaign Contributions dont qualify, for the kind of crime that should justify the wiretapping of a lawyer. Remember that when you wiretap a lawyer you are wiretapping his clients and you a wiretapping conversations between a lawyer and the client and you are searching for emails. Where is the American Civil Liberties union on this . Where are civil libertarians . We live in such a partisan atmosphere, get trump at any cost, that we are prepared to give up our basic Civil Liberties in exchange for getting trump. First they go after the s. O. B. S, establish the precedence on them, then go after donald trump. The aclu has disappeared and most civil libertarians today are more interested in getting trump than in protecting all of our Civil Liberties. Interesting to hear your objections to this after learning a little bit of what we heard from Rudy Giuliani, his public comments. We have Daniel Goldman here who had a different take. Im curious to have the two you respond to each other. Alan, id like to have daniel respond to what you just said, then have you respond to that so we can parse out these issues a little bit. The problem with what alan is saying, a, he doesnt know what the evidence is that the government used to get a wiretap. And b, in the wiretap statute, there are enumerated crimes that are only allowed to be surveilled by a wiretap. So there are protections in place in order to make sure that someone is not wiretapped because they may be jumping a turnstile or something else. To say we are living in a surveillance state when you know, alan, all of the requirements that the government must go through in order to get a title 3 wiretap are extensive. You must write a lengthy affidavit. You must show that this is absolutely necessary. You must have specific criminal phone calls or texts within a very recent time period. It then goes up the chain and is approved. So what youre basically saying is that in the guise of Civil Liberties we should just not investigate crimes because theres no logical end to what your argument is. And thats the fundamental problem that we have here. No, of course we should investigate serious crime and we should use means that are proportionate to the serious crime. Of course i dont know what was in the warrant. Of course i dont know what they are looking for but it is the role of the civil libertarian to be skeptical and not to trust judges and not to trust prosecutors. If men were angels, as madison wrote, we wouldnt need a constitution. We need a constitution because we as americans dont trust authority. And we as liberal democrats used to not trust Law Enforcement. Now its the conservative republicans that dont trust Law Enforcement and liberal democrats are all saying we trust Law Enforcement completely, the statutes are in place, the rules are in place. These rules are only as good as the people who enforce them and only as good as the motives of the people who are behind them. And i have to tell you, i do not trust the government. I do not trust judges. I do not trust prosecutors when they are zealousous seeking to go after a particular target, in this case donald trump. Nobody would have been going after Michael Cohen if he werent Donald Trumps lawyer. Thats the reality. People dont investigate Campaign Contribution lapses or campaign rule violations generally about people who arent in the public life. And i just worry that when you have somebody with a target on his or her back, whether it is Hillary Clinton to could have been elected and the same thing would have been happening to her, or donald trump, that civil libertarians ought to express concern. Thats all im doing is expressing concern and distrust of government. I dont want to live in the surveillance state and i want to do everything in my power no matter who the target is to prevent this from occurring. Youre misrepresenting one thing. You are assuming this is a Campaign Finance violation that is the reap why we are here. But this wiretap required criminal conversations within recent months long after the campaign ended. So you have to assume that there are other crimes that are being investigated that give rise to the wiretap. I cant respond to the rest of what youre saying because youre basically just saying that our criminal Justice System is completely defunct and decrepit and should not be adhered to. There is no response to that. If you dont trust judges lets just stick to that one issue then of the suggestion here that maybe this isnt just a Campaign Finance violation. What would you say to that . Stalin was told, show me the man and ill find your crime. You can go through the federal criminal code and find crimes that virtually any businessman, any politician has committed. A great civil libertarian wrote a book called three felonies a day be with in which he described the game the prosecutors in the Southern District of new york used to play, that is name a person and go through the code of criminal conduct and find the three felonies that they committed. It is so easy to get a warrant. It is so easy to persuade a judge to give you a wiretap warrant. That simply doesnt protect american citizens. And any civil libertarian who was exposed to whats going on here today if Hillary Clinton were the subject would be taking exactly the opposite position. There is so much hypocrisy. Partisan hypocrisy out there. I dont mind if conservatives dont want to trust government or former prosecutors take the view we ought to trust government. Civil libertarians and criminal defense lawyers are always on the side of challenging the government. The aclu has suddenly lost its way and forgotten what theyve preached for 50 years because it is donald trump theyre after. Were on the road to losing our Civil Liberties when you allow our Civil Liberties to be compromised because you are going after one particular person. Thats my person. Tom winter is here as well. I feel it is a good time to bring you in and just clear this up to the extent you are able to here. The role of Campaign Finance potential finance violations in these wiretaps in what was recorded. Do you have any sense of that . What we now know is criminal prosecutors are looking at several different angles. It is not about whether or not there was some sort of federal election or some sort of money that was tied to the campaign that is kind of the root or main avenue of this investigation. We know that there are multiple avenues to the investigation that are being looked at. For instance, Michael Cohen and taxi medallions he has. That has nothing to do with an election or whether somebody is a republican or democrat. If i can just pick up on this conversation that alan and dan were having, dans made great points on the matter and alans made great points on the matter. Whether, whether it is a democrat, people that are democrats have a problem with the investigation. You saw that with the clinton email investigation. People that are republicans or conservatives have a problem with the donald trump investigation right now. Ive covered cased of the penn state story where people had a problem with the investigators there. If it is a drug dealer with be nobody has a problem with it because it is somebody that we look at and say thats person is ruining a community. If it is a murder we look at that person and say thats somebody that took somebodys life. People arent going to be upset with the government for going after them. But when it is somebody that they like or somebody that they identify with politically, they dont like when the investigation turns on them. And i think this is what we continually have when it comes to these political investigations. Im not somebody who entertains in that. Im just a political reporter and just here to report the facts. But the facts of the matter are there are rules here that need to be overcome for federal investigators to open an investigation into whether or not somebody committed a crime and to eventually charge somebody with a crime. So lets let this play out in court. Otherwise, it is just it is just one side rooting for the other. Dan, to finish with you on that question. You made your objections clear. Wiretaps are reporting, did happen. I object when they violate Civil Liberties of drug dealers, murderers, mass murderers. I dont care whose rights are being violated. Im nonpathnonpartisan. Im there to protect the rights of every single citizen. Ive defended people and others are appalled that ive won those cases. Ill continue to defend Civil Liberties no matter how popular they are. So am i and so is the Southern District of new york. Thats the fundamental problem that you are saying, you are attributing false motives to the people who are charged with upholding our laws. I guarantee you when i was there for ten years i did not go through the code, pick a person and try to find a crime. Thats not the way things actually work on the line. And it is salacious for you to say that because it is not how it works, it is not true and i guarantee you that every one sitting around this table doesnt have a crime that they can be found. Theres no Money Laundering here. Theres no fraud. You want to talk a federal felony . You can let me wait. Were running a little short on time. Alan, 30 seconds to respond. Go ahead. It applies to any deposit made by any citizen in any bank that involves the illegally obtained proceeds of any crime almost no matter how minor it is. These laws are so lax, so stretched. I have to tell you, i know that prosecutors sit around in gang cases, mafia cases and terrorism cases and try to do the al capone thing. Lets find a technical violation, lets put pressure on this guy to flip on the next guy. Thats the way it is done. If you didnt see it in all your years in the u. S. Attorneys office, either you were scared from those kinds of cases. I know it from 53 years of experience from the other side. Alan dershowitz, thank you for participating in the dialogue with the panel here. Danny cevallos, you have been absorbing all of this. I know you have some thoughts, too. I do. On one hand, there are things that alan says that i can sympathize with. As a criminal defense attorney, you have to be skeptical of the government. And it is true, i mean the breadth of federal law today is such that almost anything is potentially illegal. It is illegal to send a box with dead bees without writing dead bees on the outside in certain sight. It is a violation of a federal law, some federal regulation. Just to give you an example. And i have to say, respectfully to dan, the essence of federal prosecution is different from state prosecution in that federal prosecutors do decide in advance that somebody is committing a crime. And the essence of a title im sorry to cut you off, but Sarah Huckabee sanders is going to be addressing the press. National day of prayer. President also signed and executive order to make sure all faithbased communities have strong advocates throughout his administration. The president encourages people of all faith across the country to join together and pray for our nation. In that same light, President Trump extends his thoughts and prayers to the nine victims and their families of yesterdays military plane crash in savannah, georgia. The nine members of the Puerto Rico National guard who had a combined 167 years of service were on an official mission. The president has been briefed on the incident and will work with the department of defense to provide assistance and resources to the Puerto Rico National guard. As you all know, President Trumps nominee to lead the cia, gina haskell, is scheduled to appear before the nat Intelligence Committee next week. In her 30 years at the agency, shes held senior positions around the globe overseeing covert operations and counterterrorism efforts to protect the homeland. Shes one of the most qualified, capable individuals ever nominated to lead the cia. We are seeing widespread support from across the political spectrum and within the intelligence community. Jeremy bash, the former democratic chief counsel to the House Committee on intelligence, and chief of staff at the cia under president obama, called acting director haskell the rare cia director nominee that both parties should love. With planning and preparations under way for the summit with north korea and with secretary pompeo now engaged from the state department, republicans and democrats should come together and conif i recall gina haskell as director of the cia. Today we also mark World Press Freedom day. This comes after a recent suicide bombing in afghanistan claiming the lives of at least ten journalists. Many journalists around the globe do their jobs at great risk every day. The United States stands in solidarity with these men and women who work for free and open societies. With that, i will take your questions. First, quick question. I dont know if you saw the news that iran that video statement saying that iran would not renegotiate or add on to the jcpoa. We dont have any announcement at this time. When the president has a final decision on what he will do in terms of the jcpoa well let you know. Secondly on the other topic in the news today be with can you explain why the president when he answered questions to reporters a few weeks ago about the 130,000 payment from Michael Cohen to Stormy Daniels, why the president was not truthful when he addressed the reporters . As mayor giuliani stated, this was information the president didnt know at the time but eventually learned. Taking a broader view of this, can i ask you, when the president so often says things that turn out not to be true, when the president and the white house show what appears to be a blatant disregard for the truth, how are the American People to trust or believe what is said here or what is said by the president . We get the very best information that we have at the time. Do i that every single day and will continue to do that every day that im in this position. The president when the story firsthand said came out that ty cobb would be leaving and emmitt flood was coming in, president said it was fake news, said it was not true. He just when he talks about the prisoners in north korea, he said the Previous Administration had been failed to get them out. Two of them were taken prisoner while donald trump was president. Obviously the totally conflicting statements on the Stormy Daniels payment. These are statements that are just not true. When it comes to north korea, i think you can also look at Otto Warmbier was detained. When it comes to the last incident you mentioned, as mayor giuliani stated, this something not something initially known but later learned. Again, we get the best information possible at the time and were going to continue to do that every single day. The president paid Michael Cohen back in february of last year. I mean in the reimbursement was happening long before the president was asked about this. Is that a question or im saying, how could he not know he was paying him back . Again, im not going to get into the details and i would refer you back to the statement, pretty lengthy statement, made by giuliani both last night and this morning as well as the president s tweets where they both talk about that. Just to follow up on that, the president did talk about monthly lee t lly retainers in. Then Rudy Giuliani says the president only knew about this ten days to two weeks ago. How can you only be aware of something ten days to two weeks ago but at the same time be in the process of paying monthly retainers that apparently covered this reimbursement to Michael Cohen . Again, i cant get into the details of the ongoing litigati litigation. Id refer you ba being to the president s you said on march 7th there was no knowledge of any payments from the president and hes denied all of these allegations. Were you lying to us at the time or were you in the dark . The president has denied and continues to deny the underlying claims. Again ive given the best information i had at the time and i would refer you back to the comments that you yourself just mentioned a few minutes ago about the timeline of mayor giuliani. That statement was in reference to the reimbursement, the payment. Again, i gave you the best information that i had and you didnt know at the time. You were kept in the dark. The allegations the president has denied why cant you just answer yes or no whether you were in the dark. I think it is a simple yes or no yes. It is the same answerive agiven you several times now. I gave you the best information that i have. Ill continue to do my best every single day. Sarah, can you give us an update on the three americans held in north korea . Rudy giuliani said that they were going to be released today. Is that true . We cant confirm the validity of any of the reports currently out about their release. But we certainly would see this as a sign of good will if north korea were to release the three americans ahead of discussions between President Trump and kim jongun. In addition to being an attorney for the president , does mr. Giuliani and the president have a wide agreement to talk about things like Foreign Policy . Not that im aware of. I want to ask you about these reports citing u. S. Intelligence that the chinese have installed in missile platforms on islands in the south china sea. And they also appear to now be basing fighter jets there. Meanwhile, pilots are being warned that Chinese Military personnel are pointing lasers at u. S. Military aircraft in africa injuring american pilots. Does any of this cross a red line for the president , and how does the administration intend to respond . Were well aware of chinas militarization of the south china sea. Weve raised concerns directly with the chinese about this and there will be near term and long term consequences and well certainly keep you up to date. Thanks a lot, sarah. Were you caught offguard by mayor giulianis comments on fox news last night . Im not part of the legal team and wouldnt be part of those discussions. So are you the administration the president pleased with the job that mayor giulianis doing right now . It seems that hes opened the president up to some sort of criminal liability as it relates to federal election Campaign Violations. I havent discussed that with the president. I wouldnt be part of those conversations. So is the president pleased with the job mr. Giuliani is doing . Again, i havent had that conversation with the president. Thats an outside counsel and not something i would be a part of. Thank you, sarah. When was the last time that the president talked to Michael Cohen . And is Michael Cohen still his attorney . And, also, is the white house concerned, was the president concerned, that any conversations he would have had with Michael Cohen would have been picked up by the wiretap that we learned about today . Let me see if i can get all of those questions since there were quite a few tied together. Im not sure when the last conversation took place. On the second part, im not aware of specific places where hes representing the president. And on the last one, i would refer you to the president s outside counsel about any concerns of wiretapping than. When did you specifically know that the president repaid mr. Cohen for the 130,000 . You personally. The first awareness i had was during the interview last night. Sarah, you said earlier that when youve given answers around this general topic, you give the best information you have at the time. Now it appears that your position is youre not going to comment because it is ongoing litigation. Have you been advised not to wade into this to protect yourself from any potential legal exposure by giving the false information or information that proves later not to be able to be withstood in court . No, as a person of human decency, i would not give false information. When you say before that you gave the best information you had at the time it shall. I continue to do that today. But if it turns out not to be correct or accurate, are you then trying to limit the liability that you may encounter by not dealing with any of those questions now and pushing it all off because you say it is ongoing litigation . Again, im giving the best information i have. Some information i am aware of and some im not. When i can answer, i will. But beyond that, i really dont have anything to add. Let me ask you something about what the mayor said last night not related to the questions youve gotten so far. He said, he, meaning the president , fired comey because comey was would not among other things say that he was not a target of the investigation. Is that the White House Position now explaining why james comey was fired . There are a number of reasons why james comey was fired. The president s named several of them. But the bottom line is he doesnt have to justify his decision. The president has the authority to fire and hire and i think every single day weve seen that he made the right decision and firing james comey. Again, i think there are a number of reasons that he was fired. Certainly james comey was fired for lying, leaking and politicizing the fbi and the president has been, i think, repeatedly, day after day, been proven to be exactly right in his decision to fire james comey. Do you agree with that sorry. Sharon, go ahead. Can you clear up this timeline a bit . Back to jims question about when exactly did the president learn that the payments were going to Michael Cohen to cover the Stormy Daniels i would refer you back to mayor giulianis comment for anything further. And did the president know that mr. Giuliani was specifically going to be talking about these payments on hannity last night . Was he aware of the time and message i dont know the answer to the question. Followup to jeffs question, jay sekulow and Rudy Giuliani have both commented publicly on the north korean hostages. Are they involved in any way in efforts to secure their release . Not that im aware of. Why are they commenting . Thats a question youd have to ask them. Is the president concerned that his own Justice Department authorized the wiretap that may have gathered communications between him and his personal attorney, Michael Cohen . Again, im not sure of the comments this that report or claims in that roar. Thats something that you would have to talk with the department of justice and the president s outside counsel. Was he shocked when he learned the reporting that Michael Cohens i havent talked to him about that. Again i cant verify the validity of this report. Just going back to the payments question, how many payments did the president make to Michael Cohen after the election . Youd have to ask the president s outside counsel. I with a the to ask you about Rudy Giulianis comments. Rudy giuliani said this morning, imagine if that came out on on the 15th, 2015, in the middle of the debate with Hillary Clinton, a reference to the payments. So does the white house now acknowledge that that payment was made with politics in mind . Again, im not aware of the back and forth and i would refer you to the president s outside counsel. Sarah, yesterday the president threatened to get involved in the Justice Department if memos were not turned over in a timely matter to the house Intelligence Committee. What action is the president considering taking and what does timely manner mean to the president . How soon does he want the unredacted version of the special counsel . Probably yesterday. But in terms of what he might do, as the president likes to say, well see what happens. Thank you, sarah. Would you remind us what the president s position is regarding the potential use of interrogation tactics that meet the International Definition of torture . Im not sure what those two things are youre trying to connect. I know that acting director haskell has done everything appropriate under the law and shes going to be a great cia director. And we look forward to her being confirmed. Thank you, sarah. Question on russia. This morning, the Financial Times reported that a former close associate of president putin and a strong advocate of warmer relations with the United States may well be rejoining his government. This raises another question. Youve said that the president would have his summit with mr. Putin some time in the near future. Can you give us any clues when that will be, if anything has been determined on a possible trum trump putin summit . Nothings been finalized on that front. I think the next big summit, if you will, that the president will engage in will likely be between President Trump and kim jongun. Beyond that, i dont have any updates. There will be no meetings it is likely that there are no meetings with president putin before the kim trump summit. Not that im aware of. Certainly nothing thats finalized at this point but certainly the president would still be open to sitting down with leader of russia. Thank you, sarah. In regard to those memos and the potential oversight,. I certainly think that the president feels like stopping a nuclear war and helping protect the safety and security of people across the globe would certainly be the number one priority of the president of the United States. And certainly i would think would be the priority that most americ americans ill take one last question. Sorry. Bill . Two questions. Ill come to you next. So, sarah, at this point can you tell us definitively if the president plans to answer any questions from bob mueller and if not, what is now in place . Here at the white house to go through that process of a subpoena, a possible indictment, a possible grand jury. Again, those are all questions, you would need to refer to the outside counsel. Okay. Well, now going to Rudy Giuliani, did Rudy Giuliani do harm to the president today . And last night in his conversations to fox . I dont believe so. Why didnt he take to the White House Press office about his impacting stellar statements about what was happening . Everyones on the the White House Press office wouldnt coordinate with the president s outside legal team on legal strategy. You said yourself you were blind sided. I actually didnt use that term. I said it. You were blind sided from what you said. With all due respect, you actually dont know much about me in terms of what i feel and what i dont. 21 years, i understand how this operates. All right. I think were done. Ali, go ahead. Indian Prime Minister th Narendra Modi and xi jjinping i china, how do they improve the relationship and has the president we dont have an official policy but certainly think its always good when other World Leaders are getting along. And certainly when we can cooperate, thats definitely a good thing. We have great relationship with both countries and hope to continue to do so. Thanks, guys. All right. That was Sarah Huckabee sanders. The White House Press secretary. Concluding her briefing there on a very eventful day. Again, the news broken by nbc just before that White House Press briefing, is nbc news reporting exclusively that there had been a wiretap on Donald Trumps longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen, a phone tap in the weeks leading up to the raid of his home and his office. Back in april. The exact duration of that wiretap, the exact date that it began, when it began, unclear right now, but, again, nbc news reporting that there was a wiretap, that question did come up amongst several others at this briefing. The highlights, if you didnt catch the whole thing there, Sarah Huckabee sanders saying that Rudy Giuliani, last night, going on fox news and saying that this 130,000 payment had been made to the attorney from Michael Cohen to Stormy Daniels. Who alleged the affair with President Trump. Confirming that the 130,000 payment had been made. She said she did not feel that Rudy Giuliani had done any harm. Questions about the wiretap, she said she would refer to outside counsel to the doj, didnt have anything to join theradd there. Joined by nbcs kristen welker. She asked questions. Wo Washington Post bureau chief phillip rucker. Kristen, to you, you had an exchange with the press secretary. What stood out to you in this briefing . Reporter well, starting with my exchange, steve, i tried to press her on the revelations, the exclusive nbc news reporting, that Michael Cohens phones were wiretapped in the days before the fbi raided his apartment. Lets take a look at that exchange. Is the president concerned that his own Justice Department authorized a wiretap that may have gathered communications between him and his personal attorney Michael Cohen . Again, im not sure of the comments on that report or the claims in that report. Thats something you would have to talk with the department of justice and the president s outside counsel. When he learned the reporting that Michael Cohens phones were wiretapped i Vice President tahavent tt that. I cant verify the validity of that report. Reporter so Sarah Sanders repeatedly referring a number of thorny questions to the president s outside counsel. But one thing that did stand out to me, steve, she did say she just learned that the president had reimbursed cohen last night when Rudy Giuliani said it on fox news, so an awareness that at least some people here within the administration were caught off guard. Now, Rudy Giuliani indicated that the president was aware he was going to come out and make those statements and President Trump sort solof underscored th fact in the series of tweets he unleashed earlier today. A couple of other points that ill hit here from the briefing, sarah was asked if Michael Cohen is still the president s attorney. She didnt say yes or no, she just said shes not aware of any dealings that they have right now. When was the last time they spoke . Sarah couldnt say. Now, i asked sarah how many payments there were to cohen in the days after the election. She also referred that question to outside counsel, steve, but these questions arent going away, its clearly an increasingly political, larger political problem, for the white house. Steve . Yeah, and danny cevalos, let me bring you in, Sarah Huckabee sanders saying Rudy Giuliani didnt hurt the president legally or any other way with those comments last night. Whats your sense of that question . If Sarah Huckabee sanders is adopting the Rudy Giuliani view of this case, from what i can tell last night, Rudy Giuliani is essentially retreating into the position that the payment that trump made, that he concededly apparently made, whether funneled through intermediaries or not, is not a Campaign Finance issue at all. Its a personal payment for personal reasons which is a valid defense to Campaign Finance law allegations. However, the there are a number circumstantial evidence. Not the least as which the payment close to the election. That kind of circumstantial evidence could overcome direct evidence that it simply had nothing to do with the election. Philip rucker, what did you make of the press briefing . Well, clearly sarahs on the defensive over these statements. She gave misstatements for the record as did the president about this payment and about the affair, the alleged affair, rather and its put the white house in a moment after chaos here. Weve been reporting sarah is not the only one who was in the dark about this payment and about giulianis man to reveal it. The white house chief of staff john kelly did not know, the White House Counsel Don Mcgahn did not know. The new white house lawyer managing the russia probe, emmet flood, did not know. This was really a plan hatched almost exclusively by trump and rj religiudy giuliani and actin their own duo. Thank you both for joining us on what has been a busy hour, a busy afternoon, a busy day, a busy i think 16 hours since rudy giulia Rudy Giuliani gave that yeah, not slowing down any time soon. Obviously were going to continue our coverage of the nbc news exclusive reporting, again, about this wiretap of Donald Trumps longtime lawyer. Im going to leave things off for this hour. Ive Steve Kornacki in for katy t tur. Im going to trrecap it, thas for your great coverage. Im ali velshi. On the very same day President Trump signed a faithbased initiative, the countrys faith and president s ability to tell the truth is being tested, in some places its been obliterated. Once again the Trump Administration spent another press briefing deflecting questions on two major story lines involving the president s past claims and his everchanging legal team. First, the breaking news on the nbc news exclusive. Federal investigators wiretapped phone lines of trumps personal lawyer, Michael Cohen. It is not clear when the wiretap started. Or how long its been authorized but according to one source the wiretap was in place in the weeks leading up to the fbi raid on cohens office. Hotel room, and home. That same source with direct knowledge of the wiretap said at least one phone call between a phone line associated with cohen and the white house was intercepted. Also, a subject of todays briefing was trumps new lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. Giulianis fox news blitz flared