Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson 20201119

From portland, oregon. Gabe, this pan demme sick getting worse nationwide, where you are, iowa hit a record high for the number of deaths in a single day with a 41 test Positivity Rate. We hear a lo of numbers. The statistics are staggering and some doctors sound close to their breaking point. How are they coping . Reporter hey there, hallie. Youre right. 41 Positivity Rate here in iowa. The White House Coronavirus Task Force Report puts iowa and its neighboring states in the red zone throughout the country, warning of an unyielding and exponential spread of the virus. At this hospital the icu is full here, so are the icus at several other hospitals in des moines and we spoke with a doctor here who is frustrated that more people havent adhered to Public Safety guidelines, Public Health guidelines in the last few months. Take a listen to her message. I think its incredibly frustrating. I think theres a sense that no one is listening to us and it really does feel at times as if were on the field, were fighting fires and yet people continue to set fires. It feels like its even worse than its ever been as opposed to getting better. Reporter so the situation here in iowa is growing more dire. The governor here enacted a mask mandate, a limited mask mandate several days ago, after being relet the record further reflect tant to do so for months. There are some critics in iowa that said the mask mandate does not go far enough. It requires people to wear a mask within six feet of someone else, for more than 15 minutes and some critics here say that doesnt go far enough and its too little too late. So lets go, gabe, from the midwest now to the east coast here, because yazmin, in new york city the biggest Public School system is closing for inperson learning because the covid rates are getting so high in the city. There is a lot of disagreement to say the least over whether that is the right step and i think speaks to this discussion over Remote Learning that so many parents around the country are dealing with. Talk about the disruptions in new york, the expectations for how long this pause on inperson learning could last. Reporter hi, yes. Look at the school behind me. Usually this is bustling with kid, even though theyre partially remote, partially inperson. Yesterday they shut down schools across the city, 1. 1 million kid are all remote from home. Its really anybodys guess when theyll get back to school. The mayor is saying its definitely through the thanksgiving holiday. They want to institute a new testing policy where parents and kids are getting tested and completely sterilize the schools across the city. If they get kids back into the school its in a safe environment. Parents and teachers ive about been speaking to are worried thinking kids will fall behind because of the closure of schools. Businesses arent shutting down. The Positivity Rate is 3 and the Positivity Rate inside schools is 0. 2 . A lot of sounding the alarm saying businesses should be shutting down, not necessarily schools protesting in front of city hall a little bit later today and many of them are placing the blame and garrett can probably speak to this more later, placing the blame on the federal government and why republicans and democrats cant get their act together to bring relief to so Many Americans across the country so then the businesses can shut down, they can bridge the gap through some closures and schools can stay open in new york or bridgport, connecticut or pittsburgh. A dozen schools are shut down today or will be shutting down to go all remote because of these spiking Positivity Rates across the country. And yazmin, those are some of the biggest cities around the country. You teed us up for garrett on capitol hill. Covid relief seems to be a nonstarter at this point but washington is not immune to the number of rising cases specifically where you are on the hill, the number of lawmakers testing positive, keeps going up and up and up with concern and frustration and impact frankly on the political agenda. Ive got no senators, they left town late last night because one of their oldest members, Chuck Grassley tested positive for the virus. We had another republican senator in quarantine after exposu exposure. The two positive cases alone were enough to make it difficult for the senate to handle its basic business. On the house side, weve had Seven Members test positive in the last week. Think just rolled out testing and one of the members got his test at the testing site here on capitol hill. It would not shock me in the slightest if we saw more positive cases roll out over the next couple of days with the house in town, folks getting tested but on the covid relief front theres been no progress, none. On tuesday night Chuck Schumer and nancy pelosi sent a letter to Mitch Mcconnell almost literally engraved invitation to rejoin some kind of talks, some kind of negotiations on this process. Weve heard no response from connells office. The senate home through thanksgiving, people around the country looking for relief, have to wait at least a little longer. There are so many people looking for relief. Anton antonia, you know that very well where you are. Were learning that 742,000 americans filed for Unemployment Benefits last week, becoming a desperate situation. Youre covering whats going on places to help people put food on the table in oregon. How bad is it out there . Reporter thats right. Here in oregon a new freeze on business went into effect yesterday and its hitting people in the hospitality and Food Services industries, particularly hard. Thousands of people are now trying to get on unemployment and here in portland, the freeze is expected to last at least a month, at least. It could be extended longer than that. I spoke to a Program Manager of the food bank behind me here. She told me throughout the pandemic theyve seen about a thousand percent increase in need and they expect these lines to get longer as now right ahead of the holidays, tons of people are losing their jobs and losing their income. I spoke to other administrators of other food banks in the state and they tell me the longer we go without a federal aid package available, the more people in communities like this one suffer. Take a listen to this. I think weve seen the results of inadequate federal response over the last six to eight months of the virus. Numbers in march we made significant price in the fight to end hunger in oregon, one in 12 people. That is nothing compared to the doubling of Food Insecurity, the doubling of hunger weve seen in the months in. Reporter you just heard jason at the Oregon Food Bank there is a that prior to the pandemic, oregonians experiencing Food Insecurity here was one in 11 or one in 12. That has doubled. Their Research Shows we are about now at one in five people in the state are experiencing Food Insecurity. Back to you, hallie. Antonia hilton, thank you. Weve heard from our reporters on the ground. Now to some officials handling the pandemic response, specifically in the state of south dakota. If it were a country, by the way, it would be in the top ten, the top three countries with the highest average number of cases per capita over the last couple of weeks in the world. I want to bring in the mayor of sioux falls, Paul Tenhaken. Thank you for being with us early this morning on a busy time for you. You bet, hallie. So your state is already reporting a 28 increase in covid cases in the last couple of weeks, a 68 increase in deaths. Can you talk about what you are bracing for now in the days ahead, specifically as we head into thanksgiving and the holidays there in sioux falls . Well, its tough. Based on your previous correspondence, just gave the reports, the covid spread is hitting across the country and south dakota, were getting hit hard right now and so what were trying to do right now is ensure that Health Care Capacity stays manageable. We, a lot of people dont realize this, but we have Large Health Care systems in sioux falls and so they have adjusting their kind of icu volumes to prepare for that, but the Positivity Rate and the spread that were seeing in this community has been challenging. So what weve had to do is initially rely strongly on the personal freedom approach, which our state has kind of taken and now we had to step that up, most recently our City Council Approved a mask mandate in our community to try to curb some of the spread a little bit, but continues to be a challenge here in south dakota to manage through this. A challenge is certainly a fair way to describe it, mr. Mayor, and i have to ask you about that mask mandate. I understand it goes into effect this saturday, this coming weekend in sioux falls. Interestingly, that is a break with whats happening statewide with the governor, who has gotten a lot of attention especially where i am in washington opposing a mask mandate. Have you spoken with her about this . Are there any concerns in your view about the mixed messaging from the people coming from the local government versus state government, versus frankly the federal government . Well, every state has taken a little bit different approach to this. Every city has taken a different approach. My responsibility as the city of sioux falls, the largest city in the state but i am a purple city in a red state. Were 50 rs, 50 ds. I have to make decisions i feel are best for this community. Its masks do slow the spread of the virus. What we havent seen is data that shows that mask mandates really do that. So i think thats some of the pushback that you see on mandates, people question the efficacy if they help curb the spread. We know masks work but mandates dont seem to always work so i think thats why theres been reluctance across the country. In sioux falls we implemented that and it will go into effect saturday as you said, just this week because of that reluctance. At this point well do whatever we can to try and get a handle on whats happening right now. I guess that get to the point i think im personally really interested in, around this country. You are as you say i think you phrase it as a purple city in a red state. There are people in sioux falls who are looking to leaders to help them make decisions and theyre looking to for example the state leadership in a red state who is saying there is no mask mandate necessary. Theyre getting a different message from you and from your folks there in local government in sioux falls. Are you worried about the mixed messaging . How do you deal with that . Its challenging. Theres mixed messaging all over the country from clinicians to elected officials to local leaders like myself so our mask mandate for instance goes into effect and will enforce masks in all Retail Businesses but no penalty to it. Meaning, you have the people who are totally against mandates and we say listen, dont abide. Theres no penalty. You have the people who dont feel thats far enough and theyre on this side but 60 , 70 of your population lives in the middle and theyre just going to do the right thing. This is the ordinance. Well do this. Theres no effect on me personally. So if this is one thing i can do, im going to do it so thats the approach i guess were taking in sioux falls for the next several weeks. Do you blame the president for some of that mixed messaging . I wonder you talked about elected officials having a responsibility here to get a clear and consistent message out. We heard that largely from Public Health officials, less so frankly from the white house. I have quite honestly been a little frustrated with the message from the top because as we all know, message from the top trickles down. Because there hasnt been a lot of consistency in that messaging it left us at the local level, city councils, commissions, all taking different approaches. We have kind of patchwork legislation that were passing, so it does put a lot of pressure on us as local leaders to try and do the right thing. Mayor Paul Tenhaken i appreciate your time and per spec think of this morning. Coming up, we are live with a key member of the biden covid Advisory Board who says this whole transition delay means her team has their hands tied behind their backs. Looking ahead to a News Conference in a couple hours from the president s legal team as our sources tell us when exactly they think his legal fight will end and what some allies think about his prospects. Spoiler, its not good but it is heated in wisconsin with drama at a marathon emergency hearing overnight ahead of a partial recount set to start there soon. Were live on the ground with why one board member will not water what she calls a plant of bologna, next. Lanning and advice to help you prepare for the future, without sacrificing whats most important to you today. Because with fidelity, you can feel confident that the only direction youre moving is forward. Because with fidelity, you can feel confident vicks vapopatch. Easy to wear with soothing vicks vapors for her, for you, for the whole family. 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Even before a single ballot has been retallied, wisconsins partial recount is already off to a rough and very combative start with what felt like a partisan brawl in the States Election commission made up of three republicans and three democrats. What was expected to be a pretty routine local government meeting instead stretched nearly six hours about rules for the recount, and about President Trumps unsubstantiated baseless claims of fraud in their counties. I think thats absurd. I think its factually bizarre and excuse me, what i think we ought not be doing is watering that plant of baloney. This is ridiculous. All you and dean keep talking about is evil democrats are going to do something nasty so these honest hardworking republicans arent going to be able to see whats going on and im tired of that. Wisconsin is just one of many legal fights for the president s team and my colleagues and i are reporting this morning, hes expected to keep up those fights for now, probably well into december even as his allies nudge him to acknowledge and accept his loss in the president ial race and start making plans for what happens after the white house. Thats according to multiple sources familiar with the discussions. One Senior Administration official telling our team at nbc news those close to the president know the legal challenges are continuing but understand theyre futile. The Trump Campaign and republicans filed 30 lawsuits, no big wins so far. 19 suits dismissed, denied, settled or withdrawn and during the commercial break we learned of one more with the Trump Campaign withdrawing its lawsuit in michigan because they say theyve gotten the results theyd wanted. Let me go to nbcs shaquille brucer in milwaukee. Take us into the partial recount set to begin in a day from now but boy, did that overnight meeting that lasted well into the wee hours of the morning foreshadow what this will feel like moving forward. Thats right, hallie. Last nights meeting of the Wisconsin Elections commission is that it was supposed to be a fairly routine meeting to authorize the recount in the state. It was a meeting put on the calendar only in the instance of the candidate filing for a recount. We know that President Trump paid the 3 million and requested a recount, he filed that recount petition so they had this meeting to authorize the recount and set out that recount order, an official document that tells counties to start the process. Well, they got there eventually but took about six hours to get that unanimous agreement to send out the recount order. You saw much of the disagreement over the recount manual that goes out to clerks, they were trying to update it to account for the coronavirus, to set clear guidelines how clerks should handle that, when you saw sparks fly between the democratic members on the panel and the republican members, they really went back and forth with it. I watched plenty of those meetings and the level of sarcasm with the meeting last night was pretty high bar that they set last night. What happens at this point . Well we know that Milwaukee County says they will not start their recount process until tomorrow but today, were seeing them prepare for that. Were in front of the Milwaukee County courthouse. We just saw on the other side of the building several moving trucks come up, theyre going to be moving balloting material, the votes taken from election day theyll move that to a huge Convention Center in milwaukee so that tomorrow they can start that recounting process. Well be able to get inside and see this Convention Center, see the social distancing that they have in place. One thing to keep in mind as we talk about this recount, at that Convention Center theres about 230 election workers that will be participating in this process. Remember, wisconsin is dealing with a surge of the coronavirus, so this is a state where one in three people who go and get tested for the coronavirus test positive, so thats definitely something that they have to consider as theyre going through this process. They have 13 days from the recount order to complete their process and Milwaukee County believes it will be done sometime before the thanksgiving holiday, thats a good thing if youre one of the election workers tasked with going through this process. Hallie . Thats for sure. Shaq brewster, thank you. Up next the behindthescenes outreach from Trump Administration officials to the biden transition team. What our sources are telling us, and how the president elects folks are reacting. And you know why were asking who the president is . Hes pushing q conspiracy issues online today. First we may be known as the Peacock Network at nbc but it is a different bird the talk of 30 rock these days. Check it out, you hear about hoot . The tiny owl found in the Rock Center Christmas tree, after crews brought him in from upstate new york accidentally. Hes affectionately knick nimd rockefeller. The team at the Wildlife Center are helping him recover from the surprise 170 mile journey and plan to release him back in the wild once hes in good health. Good morning, mr. Sun. Good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. Im gonna grow big and strong. Yes, you are. Im gonna get this place all clean. Ill give you a hand. And im gonna put lisa on crutches wait, what . Said shes gonna need crutches. She fell pretty hard. You might want to clean that up, girl. Excuse us. 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It is just about 10 30 eastern time. 7 30 on the west coast. Do you know where your president is . Hes taking a very different public messaging approach to the Public Health crisis gripping this country than the person set to succeed him. President elect biden today is holding a Virtual Meeting with some of the nations governors to talk about covid coordination efforts. Vice president elect Kamala Harris will join him. President trump has no Public Events scheduled for the sixth day in a row. Vice president pence will meet with his Coronavirus Task force this afternoon, closed to the press and new reporting behind the scenes outreach from current and former Trump Administration officials to the biden transition team. Let me talk about it all with carol lee outside the white house, mim memoli join us with the president elect in wilmington. Carol, the president has been around on twitter tweet being vaccines, making more false rigged election claims flagged by twitter including one referencing a socalled cyber analyst with ties to a very shadowy site that hosts q from qanon and while the president may not be dealing with the election reality, people in his orbit are as they reach out to the biden transition team. What do you know . Reporter hallie, there are a number of officials, thousands in fact across the administration who are career officials and including even some political officials who have been preparing for transition, preparing for this moment, documents, binders of information for the incoming administration, and so what we know is that there has been some outreach from those officials to the biden transition, what were told is that its not something significant, according to the biden team, that its not the senior most officials, chief of staff or Something Like that, in the white house, but there is a desire to get things moving and i think if you look at how a number of career officials even have spoken publicly, former officials saying this is, stressing this is important and this needs to move along, it seems only natural this would take place. You know this as well as anybody that this is not something that would go over well with President Trump. He sets the tone from the top and the tone is that theres not to be cooperation with this transition, so everyones mostly in a Holding Pattern and there hasnt been any sort of significant conversations or cooperation between this administration and the biden transition. And carol, as we wait to see if were going to hear from the president , every night that daily guidance comes out as you and i know well on our white house unit and every day for the last six days no, Public Events are scheduled for President Trump and also a question as we talk about his legal strategy more broadly, led by rudy giuliani, this idea and one of the campaigns Legal Advisers is talking about this publicly, potentially encouraging things to get kicked over, basically the legal challenges to slow things down so that things get kicked over to state legislatures, many of them republicanled, which could then hold things up to send the election to congress. Its basically this pieinthesky scenario most experts say highly unlikely to happen. Are you going to hear anything more . Its a next move if theyre not winning in the courts, not winning at the ballot box to try to push this what you just said a pie in the sky sort of strategy, and for allies of the president that i spoke with said this is not something they expect to go anywhere but there is a state certification deadline of december 8th and the goal is to try to push that so that states might miss that certification deadline to get a foothold to kick it to the legislature of the congress. Carol, fascinating reporting. Mike, i want to go to you. You heard carol lay out this under the radar outreach from these current and former trump folks. The biden transition is responding to this making very clear that that is not a substitute for the formal Intelligence Briefings that they so far are still not getting. Thats exactly right, hallie. I think its important to lay ought at the getgo, there are 11 weeks between election day and Inauguration Day and the biden transition had a very detailed and careful plan how to make the most of that limited time. Well, were now in week three of that 11 weeks so their plan is already disrupted and every sort of day that goes by at this point, the spice level of their reaction to these ongoing delays it gets ratcheted up a little bit. For Kristen Welker here last night the description of these contacts happening as no big deal is an indication of that. We also got a statement from kaid beding field and it requires more than former officials stepping forward that gsa should follow the law and ascertain the results. The president elect has been a visible presence every day and weve seen him talking to elected leaders to his transition team, to his pandemic team. Yesterday he had a pretty honest and at times emotional conversation with some of those front line workers dealing with the pandemic putting a real personal cost on what we are seeing in these numbers. Lets take a listen to part of that conversation. You know, we nurses, we know that we are facing immense death and suffering in the coming weeks. Mary, uhm im sorry im so emotional. Its just no, you got me emotional. Look, thank you. Thank you, thank you for what you do, and reporter so what are we going to see today, hallie . Actually its an interesting milestone in this transition. Weve been talking about whether theres outreach, the republicans quietly behind the scenes today. Well see for the first time president elect joe biden speaking with an elected republican official, speaking with members of the National Governors association elected the executive committee, which includes both democrats and republicans, including Maryland Governor larry hogan. An interesting moment for the campaign for the transition at this stage. Right, Governor Hogan not exactly a fan of President Trump, fair to say. Mike, is president elect biden taking any questions today from folks . Is that expected or no . Reporter yes, one of the great signals of whether thats going to happen is when they allow an additional what we call expanded pool into the room for these events and so thats the case today and our colleague Kristen Welker will be on hand with good questions ready for the president elect. You can be sure of that. Interesting, as another juxtaposition with President Trump not taking questions since i believe november 3rd, the longest stretch of his presidency that he hasnt taken questions from reporters. Carol lee, mike memoli, thank you. Lois pace, a member of the biden transition covid individualsry committee and president of the Global Health council. Thank you for being here this morning. Thanks far having me, hallie. I appreciate it. So let me ask you about this meeting that mike, my colleague, who covers the biden transition, just teed up between the president elect, some of the nations governors to try to work on coordinated Covid Response between the federal and state governments. How do you navigate that . There is not widespread agreement among the 50 governors what they need moving forward and how to handle this pandemic moving ahead. I applaud the president elect for getting with Business Leaders and others including front line workers you saw and reported on. I think thats the first step with any of this, right, is meeting people where they are and thats what wed advise as Public Health professionals, a tried and true practice that we use, and something that seems the transition is agreeing to do. President elect biden is making other headline this is morning on covid as well. Is he talking about how this transition delay, this transition standoff could put his administration behind by weeks or even months when it comes to distributing the vaccine. What needs to happen in order for that not to happen . Wow, yes. Well, i know that we on the board are really keen to ensure were advising the team as well as possible, so that they can be ready to go on day one. I think its also good that you have so many people on this team who probably have experience with government and can understand what might be happening in addition to just knowing whats in play at state and local levels, whats in play at the corporate level. Its not perfect, but i think everyones trying to gather the intel and information that they can, so they can hit the ground running. Thats the best that we can do in terms of government or that we can ask of them, but it also is going to come down to individuals, right, and what we can do ourselves in our homes, with our own practices to try and slow the spread. So its not just this high level with government stakeholders and officials but also in communities and cities and towns, what we can do to play our part and so we can truly get ahead of this curve and put all this behind us. Do you share the concern that this transition delay could end up potentially exacerbating the problem with the pandemic, with getting the vaccine into the hands of people who need it the most . I do worry about not making progress, falling further behind. We see these rates, quarter of a Million Deaths weve hit already, thousands looking at in terms of additional lives lost. No one wants to see that continue or even accelerate and i think thats a concern youve heard the president elect communicate and i think that those of us in Public Health would be remiss if we didnt share that concern, so certainly i think we want to do everything that we can as a board to advise them to take the actions that they can do at this point, and again just sort of line everything up at least so that there isnt a delay come january 20th and beyond. Have you made an assessment as it relates to further restrictions, the potential for lockdowns in this country . What the president elect will do on january 21st once he comes into office if the numbers have not improved significantly based on what were seeing currently . Were looking at the whole range of options for the president elect and his team, everything from tests and supplies to treatment and vaccines, and even including equity and messaging, dont forget thats critically important as well. So unfortunately just given with covid around health, let alone the economic consequences, we have a pretty big mandate. I think youve heard the president elect talk about some of the things he wants to ensure happen through executive order, the defense production act to generate supplies for our Health Workers who are just again doing the greatest work on the front lines, but i think that there are a number of things that can be brought to bear come day one for the president elect and im just glad that we have his ear. Loyce pace, thank you for being with us on the show. Were glad to have your perspective to share. Coming up here of course, take care. Mike pompeo unprecedented stop oversea this is morning, how that is playing out here at home as the u. N. Watchdog group urges this country not to take drastic action against iran in the final days of the Trump Administration, and exclusive interview can keir simmons, joining us live, next. Plus as we get closer to a vaccine being available to the public, one Vulnerable Group of americans have been excluded from those vaccine trials. Well talk to the leading Public Health expert on this topic, who says it is utterly unacceptable that pregnant women are being left out. Are you frustrated with your weight and health . Its time for aerotrainer, a more effective total body fitness solution. announcer aerotrainers ergodynamic design and four patented air chambers create maximum muscle activation for better results in less time, all while maintaining safe, correct form. Aerotrainers unique design allows for over 20 exercises for a total body workout. Plus, you can easily transition from one exercise to the next. Want tighter abs and a stronger back to help relieve pain . Do the aerotrainer super crunch. The prestretch works your abs even harder, engaging the entire core. 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Considers the settlements illegal a violation of international law. Palestinians say the land was stolen from them and many of the vines grow on plunderred soil according to the New York Times saying several palestinian families are registered as the legal owners of the land which is planted with the winerys grape vines, unsurprisingly palestinians not happy with the visit but israelis including the owner of the winery are celebrating it. We thank him, we appreciate him and i promise you that my kids and my grandkids will remember the name of the secretary of state and all the people that come here and i think they will remember mike pompeo. The visit means a lot to israelis. Elsewhere and separately the state department is taking tough new action against iran slapping sanctions on the country. President trump did ask his top security advisers this week about the possibility of military strikes against the country. This morning, a personal plea to the president from a senior u. N. Official who monitors Irans Nuclear ambitions. For more youll see the interview only here, Senior International correspondent keir simmons. What did he tell you . What is his message for President Trump . Were just getting some breaking news from that u. N. Watchdog publishing its report which does say iran is telling them a lot of what it is doing but also says in many ways iran and its uranium enrichment is going beyond the international agreements. In the exclusive interview with the head of that watch dog i asked him about fears that the u. S. Might launch an attack on iran, over all this. He says its speculation but take a listen. A military attack would be detrimental to an inspection activity, let alone the safety of my inspectors. The Trump Administration didnt warn you, didnt tell you they might consider it . Of course president no of course not. Based on the evidence you are seeing, now is not the time for a military attack on targets in iran . I hope there would never be a time for a military attack. Reporter it is, hallie, a tense time in the last months of the Trump Administration. The uk, germany, and france urging iran to go back on its building towards a nuclear program, but it all underscores the challenges that there will be for the upcoming biden administration, hallie. Thats for sure. Keir simmons, great reporting. I look forwards to seeing more of your interview tonight on nbc nightly news. Back to covid looking at the intersection of potential covid vaccines and eyerisk groups susceptible to getting very, very sick from the virus. Today Oxford University announced good news out of its phase two trials, their vaccine is as effective for the older demographic, for older folks as it is for younger folks. When it comes to the promising vaccines out of moderna and pfizer, a key group of people have not been included in those trials, pregnant women. And according to the cdc pregnancy significantly increases covid mortality risk. Pregnant people are more likely to develop complications and admitted to the icu compared to nonpregnant people. Joining me to talk about this is ruth faden, bioethicist at Johns Hopkins university who focuses on immunizations for pregnant women. You are literally the top expert in this conversation of vaccines for people who are pregnant and fortunate to have you here on the show. Put it into laymans terms. How do you make sure . Your modesty is noted, thank you. Talk to us about this in laymans terms. How do you make sure a vaccine is safe for somebody who is pregnant . Its an extremely complicated problem and good news part of the story and deeply troubling part of the story. The good news is that this time fortunately the research and Development Community and the federal and state authorities are much more attuned and much more concerned about ensuring that pregnant women have access to a safe vaccine than ever before. It has been historically the case that pregnant women have been treated unfairly. Theyre the last to get evidence about a new drug or a new vaccine relative to pretty much any other population, so the good news is, pregnant women are very much on everybodys radar. The bad news is, or the concerning news is that were already at the point of extremely exciting news weve been hearing about from pfizer, from moderna, astrazeneca and so on, especially the two that will come before the fda pretty soon. Neither of them and as far as i know, no company yet has a date certain for when they will begin trials with pregnant women. So its likely in fact that well see trials with children, with adolescents and with younger children before we see trials for pregnant women. Its complicated to do research in pregnancy, but its not impossible to do ethically acceptable research in pregnancy. Right. Talk more about that. How do you do ethically acceptable research in pregnancy . I think for so many pregnant women, right, hesitant to put things in their body, theres a lot you dont do when youre pregnant. How do you test for that . Well when youre pregnant, youre afraid to breathe sometimes and the messages come in, were bombarded with information about dont do this, it could be risky, half a glad glass of wine, no wine, dont go into a room where they just painted. Its a terrifying prospect to think about enrolling in an experimental investigation of an experimental new vaccine. That said, the assessment always has to be against the risk and harms of not taking the vaccine, right . So its not the issue of lets participate in a study, right, and take the risks or take no risk. Its participate in the study or dont participate in the study and face the risks of contracting the infection just from living in the community. Now as we get better data, as we are getting exciting data about the safety the near term safety, short term safety in otherwise nonpregnant adults and the whoppingly good news about the bekt fi effectiveness of the vaccine and the elevated risk pregnant people face in the community, you can start to see how you can get to a place where it could be ethically acceptable to offer it to pregnant women the opportunity of participating in a study. Its a matter of balancing the risks of one against the so that makes a lot of sense, doctor. Let me ask you this, if i am pregnant or plan to be pregnant, one of the people in the country who is watching this, thinking about this, at what point am i then seeing a light at the end of the tunnel for me as it relates to a vaccine . Next summer, two years from now, three years from now . If its two years from now that would be, again, utterly unacceptable. Even six months from now would be deeply problematic. For those of you listening who are pregnant or thinking about wanting to get pregnant. I just want to underscore the risks, while elevated compared to people your age, are definitely real, definitely concerning. Your absolute risks are really low. So dont think that because youre pregnant, youre the same as an 80yearold man. Youre not. So big message. Secondly, it may be that some decisions will be made shortly about whether vaccines that are approved under an emergency use authorization in the near term may be offered to some pregnant women even in the absence of data. We dont know that yet. What needs to happen is to have the right people around the table, to make that determination in obstetrics and fetal medicine so we can figure out whether there may be some women not all pregnant women are at equal risk, whether at least some women at increased risk of contracting the infection or increased risk of getting seriously ill if they do become infected, maybe its actually okay for them to be offered the vaccine even in the absence of data. So we dont know yet. Sorry. Sorry for nothing, doctor. Its a fascinating discussion. Im appreciative of you taking time to speak to us. Dr. Ruth faden, thank you for being with us this morning. Exclusive new nbc news reporting on how the white house killed a deal to pay for Mental Health care for migrant families separated at the border and how that cost taxpayers millions of dollars. Well be right back with what our sources are saying. And it still smells fresh. Pour a cap of downy unstopables into your washing machine before each load and enjoy fresher smelling laundry for up to 12weeks. When panhe doesnt justs mmake a pizza. He uses fresh, clean ingredients to make a masterpiece. Taste our delicious new flatbread pizzas today. Panera. [announcer] meet the make familysized meals fast. And because its a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. The ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. Time to look at what our sources are saying. Nbcs Julia Ainsley joins me with exclusive reporting about a white house deal to provide Mental Health care to migrant families separated at the border, a deal that was rejected. What are you learning . Reporter im learning Justice Department lawyers reached a settlement to agree to pay 8 million for Mental Health services for families separated at the border. It took them nine months to get to that agreement. When they took it up the food chain for approve, the white house killed it. Im told thats because the White House Counsels Office consulted Stephen Miller. You know its hard to do anything on immigration through the Trump Administration without Stephen Miller being involved. Essentially because of that, the deal was killed. It took an extra six months. The judge had to get involved, order the government to come and pay what ended up being 14 million for this Mental Health services for these children. It ended up costing taxpayers more, julia . Thats right, and it was a delay. For people who provided these Mental Health services, they say these children had to wait longer so they can understand what happened to them and the trauma was extended and more profound. Julia, really interesting reporting. Thank you so much for bringing it to us this morning. Thanks to all of you for watching this hour of msnbc live. Ill see you later at the white house. 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They found out school would be all remote with less than 24 hours to prepare. Moments ago we heard from new york citys may bill deblasio. He said what were seeing in schools is likely just the start. We will bring our schools back. Well have to reset the equation. For everyone who honestly might feel a little better if they knew Indoor Dining was going to be closed osh gyms would be closed, im sorry to tell you, for the