And throughout the day they were definitely mostly peaceful with far fewer violent confrontations with both police and the National Guard. To widespread looting or destruction taking place, certainly not here in philadelphia. The march in philadelphia yesterday evening was by far the largest and longest ive seen in my three days on assignment. Im going to have my one on one interview with the philadelphia mayor who talked to me about the removal of a statue of a controversial man with a historical past when it comes to Race Relations in this city. Our reporters, theyre covering the latest developments. Were going to start with ellison on the west coast. What more can you tell us about it . Reporter were in washington, d. C. , down here at the freedom applauplaza. A large group of protestors have gathered here. This is organized by Freedom Fighters d. C. You can see some of what theyre doing to get ready. In the next 30 minutes or so, we expect them to make their way towards the u. S. Capitol. Theyre making a number of different signs here on the ground. They have a bunch of red paint just over here. Organizers tell me once they get to the u. S. Capitol, they plan to paint their hands red. They plan to have speakers making a list of demands. The red on their hands will symbolize the blood that the u. S. Government and police have on their hands because of Police Brutality. They plan to march to the u. S. Capitol. Its not that far. Theyll walk that way in about half an hour and take their message to the steps of the u. S. Capitol and well be with them as they do that, ayman . Let me bring in craig melvin who is in new york. A different story last night in new york, one that some would say was much better than what weve seen the previous nights. Reporter no doubt. No doubt. After what new york city saw on monday night, there were a lot of folks who were justifiably concerned about what might go down. But there are three things, primarily, three things that Law Enforcement officials and local leaders say really led to a quieter and more peaceful night. First of all, they cut off a decent chunk of the city to car traffic. Unless you lived in that area or deemed essential personnel, you could not drive to certain parts of new york city last night. The second part, i think we have video to show you, behind me here on manhattan bridge, this is a tactic known as kettlings. Weve seen this washington, d. C. , used. Weve seen this in dallas, texas, used as a police tactic. And last night we saw it here as well. Essentially what you have, protestors there on the bridge, this is the manhattan bridge, roughly 9 30 last night. Law enforcement on one side of the bridge, Law Enforcement on the other side of the bridge. And they basically make it so the protestors have nowhere to go for a while. They would not let these protestors from brooklyn come into manhattan last night. Cutting off car traffic, the kettling, and the third thing, and this is what a lot of folks suspect made the most impact here in new york city last night, the chief of department talked about it this morning on today, here is what he told savannah. The curfew helped out cops take people out of the neighborhoods that didnt belong there. 8 00 helped a lot. A lot of peaceful protestors that were protesting past 8 00 peacefully, we allowed to continue. Reporter so the fcurfew. Youll recall on monday night, it was 11 00 p. M. Which led to a fair amount of criticism, including criticism from new york governor andrew cuomo. He criticized the new york city mayor, the new York Police Department for how they handled things on monday night. So then last night, they move that curfew up to 8 00. It appears to have made a tremendous amount of difference, ayman. Craig melvin, new york, lets cross over to mark esper who has been thrusted into the spotlight because of the photoop outside st. Johns church. Hes addressing reporters. Lets take a listen. To help maintain law and order so other americans can exercise their rights, free from violence against themselves or their property. That is what thousands of guardsmen are doing today in cities across america. It is not something we seek to do. But it is our duty and we do it with the utmost skill and professionalism. I was reminded of that monday as i visited our National Guardsmen who were on duty monday night protecting our most hollowed grounds and monuments. Im proud of the men and women who are performing this important task and in many ways at the risk of their own welfare. Ive always believed and continue to believe that the National Guard is best suited for performing Domestic Support to civil authorities in these situations. In support of local Law Enforcement. I say this not only as secretary of defense, but also as a former soldier and a former member of the National Guard. The option to use active duty forces should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the insurrection act. Last night a story came out based on a background interview i did earlier in the day. It focused on the events last monday evening in Lafayette Park and i found it to be inaccurate. I want to state clearly for all to hear my account of what happened that monday afternoon. I did know that following the president s remarks on monday evening that many of us were going to join President Trump and review the damage in lauthe park. What i was not aware of was exactly where we were going when we arrived at the church and what the plans were once we got there. It was also my aim to meet with and thank the members of the National Guard who were on duty that evening in the park. It is something the president likes to do as well. The path we took to and from the church didnt afford us that opportunity, but i was able to spend a considerable amount of time with our guardsmen later that evening as i moved around the city to many of the locations at which they were posted. I also want to address a few other matters that have been raised about that evening. First, National Guard forces did not fire rubber bullets or tear gas into the crowd as reported. Second, guardsmen were instructed to wear helmets for their own protection, not to serve as some form of intimidation. Third, military leaders including the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff were wearing field uniforms because that is an appropriate uniform when working in a command center and meeting with troops in the streets. Fourth, it wasnt until yesterday afternoon until we determined that it was a National Guard helicopter that hovered low in washington, d. C. I directed the secretary of the army to conduct an inquiry to determine what happened and why and report back to me. You all very generous with your time so let me wrap up by stating again of how proud i am of our men and women in uniform. The National Guard has gone from tackling natural disasters such as floods to combatting the coronavirus across the country, to now dealing with civil unrest in support of Law Enforcement on the streets of america. All while many of their fellow guardsmen are deployed defending against americas real adversaries. I want to assure you and all americans that the department of defense, the Armed Services, our uniform leaders, our civilian leaders and i take seriously our oath to support and defend the constitution of the United States and to safeguard those very rights contained in that document we cherish so dearly. This is a tough time for our great country these days. But we will get through it. My hope is that instead of the violence in the streets, we will see Peaceful Demonstrations that honor george floyd, that press for accountability for his murder, that move us to reflect about racism in america, and that serve as a call to action for us to come together and to address this problem once and for all. This is the america your military represents. This is the america we aspire to be and this is the america that were committed to defending with our lives. Thank you. Well go to the phones. Bob burns. Thank you, mr. Secretary. Taking you back to your comments about monday evening, when you left the white house with the president and others, i think if i heard you correctly, you said you did know that you were going to be going to the st. Johns church but you didnt know what would happen when you got there. And you were criticized for participating in a president ial photoop. Do you regret having participated . Well, i did know we were going to the church. I was not aware a photoop was happening. The president drags a large press pool along with him. I do everything i can to stay apolitical and stay out of situations that may appear political. And sometimes im successful at doing that and sometimes im not as successful. But my aim is to keep the department out of politics. And thats what i continue to try to do as well as my leaders here in the department. Well go to phil stuart. Reporter hi, could you address theres been a lot of criticism of your use of the word battle face where people are protesting, would you like to take that phrase back and when you talk about keeping the military apolitical, how do you see, you know, the department navigating this when response protests has become a partisan issue . Ill take your second question first, that is the challenge, right . Its a theres a political tone to this. We are in a political season. An election approaches and this is a challenge for every department of defense in every election year. This is something were going to continue to deal with as we creep closer and closer to election season. Ive been speaking about the importance of staying out of politics by remaining apolitical to my leadership since i took office. I reinforced it when i came in when we started the new year and ive talked about it several times since then. But this will be the ongoing challenge. With regard to your first question, as you rightly said earlier this week i was quoted as saying the best way to get street violence under control was by dominating the battle space. And probably all of you who cover the pentagon hear us use this phrase often. Its something we use day in and day out. There are other phrases that we use that you understand that most people dont understand. Its part of the lexicon that i grew up with and its described a bounded area of operations. Its not a phrase focused on people. And so certainly not on our fellow americans have some have suggested. Its a phrase i used over the weekend when speaking with the minnesota governor. We spoke on friday and saturday as i spoke to him about dod support to what was happening there. It was only a few short days again when minneapolis was the epicenter and all eyes were focused on minnesota. Governor walz is a former member of the National Guard and i was complimenting him about what he had done. It was his Successful Use of the guard in sufficient numbers that arrested control of the streets from looters and others breaking the law. I was giving him credit for that. He was doing that so peaceful demonstrators could share their frustration and anger. Thats what i was encouraging other governors to consider. In retrospect i would use different wording so as not to distract from the important matters at hand or as some would suggest militarizing the issue. Reporter thank you for doing this briefing. Some of the people who criticized you for the term of battle space were some of americas most respected generals and they said that was inappropriate language. If i could move on to what you knew about the situation at lauthe square. Were you aware that the police were going to use such strong measures at pushing back the protestors there and did you express any concerns that that may not be exactly what needed to happen to make that photoop possible . Thanks for the question, louis. I was not aware of Law Enforcements plans for the park. I was not briefed on them nor should i expect to be. But they had taken what actions i assume they felt was necessary given what they faced. But i was not briefed on the plans and was not aware of what they were doing. Reporter mr. Secretary, thanks for your time. I realize youre trying to keep the department out of politics, but it took you a week to say anything along the lines as what you did at the top of this call and your strong comments this morning about george floyd. In light of the more than 200,000 black Service Members in uniform, why did it take so long . Thanks. Thanks, dan. Its a fair question. I think you may have written about this. As you rightly said, ive worked very hard to keep the department out of politics which is hard these days as we move closer and closer to an election. Remaining apolitical means there are times to speak up and times not to. As i said in my earlier remarks, what happened to george floyd happens way too often in this country and most of the time we dont speak about these matters as a department. But as events have unfolded over the past few days, it became clear this is becoming a National Issue and what i wanted to do i had made the determination as the events escalated in the last 72 hours that the moment has reached a point where it warranted a clear message to the department about if about our approach. And so given the dynamics, i wanted to lead by crafting my statement for the Department First which i did yesterday and you all should have seen it. It went out, this piece of paper. My message to the force which sa set the proper done for our Service Members and giving my leaders the space to craft similar messages expressing our outrage at happened, expressing our commitment to the constitution, expressing our commitment as an institution to end racism and hatred in all of its forms and just a general expression with regard to what the department is about. Thats the timeline, dan, if you will, and thats why it did, and i do that with great counsel from my advisers. One more from the phone. Reporter several of the chiefs were interested in speaking up sooner. Sometimes when you say nothing, that says something unto itself. Would you have done so more quickly in retrospect . We talked to the chiefs, there was a most of the chiefs wanted to take the az from me and so what i toldnr th is through the chairman i was going to take i was going to send the initial message out to set the tone, to express my views and then give them the space to share their views as well to do so. And, again, this is were a week into this or so. When you look at whats escalated, its been a matter of 72 hours, maybe 96 or so. So weve been consumed with a lot of things between now and then. I think its important to speak up and to speak out and to share what we view as an institution, the racism that exists in america, and how we view it as an institution, again, i think weve led on these issues over the history of the United States military and will continue to do so certainly while im at the helm. One more from the phones. Reporter mr. Secretary, thanks very much for doing this. If i could take you back to the other night, i know youre saying that you didnt know exactly what the plans were, but with all due respect, those plans were designed by the commander in chief and also by bill barr, of course, the fellow cabinet secretary and someone who is in the command center with you. So how could you not know about those plans and what does it say about those plans to both clear the park and go to the church and do what the president did . And number two, i know youre conducting an inquiry on the use of the helicopter. You may not want to say this, but do you believe it was inappropriate to use a medevac helicopter to intimidate protestors. I think theres speculation with regard to what you stated. Id encourage you to speak to the department of justice. It was a Law Enforcement action. I had not yet arrived at the command post. I was en route to the command post when i was asked to return to the white house to update the president. I got back to the white house and within a short period of time we were the president went out to give his remarks. There was no space in between there. There was no opportunity to get a briefing, nor would i expect to get a briefing on what the Law Enforcement community was planning to do with regard to the clearing of the park. That was not a military decision. It was not a military action. The National Guard was there in support of the in support of Law Enforcement. With regard to your second question, i would just say this much, im not going to comment because ive asked that an inquiry be made. I want to make sure i understand why what happened, who was involved, what orders were they given or not given, was there a safety issue involved with the aircraft hovering that low. Theres a lot of questions that need to be answered. I spoke to the secretary about it last night and we will get the facts and go back from there. In the room, tara . Reporter thank you, mr. Secretary. You served in the National Guard. To follow on nicks question, were you surprised that a medical helicopter from the d. C. National guard was used to intimidate people who were peacefully assembling. You asked to look into who tasked the helicopter. Was the hoerelicopter under the authority of the department of justice . Is that why theres murkiness of how it was used in an aggressive form . Yes, those are some of the details we have to work out. You made a statement that it was to intimidate protestors. I got a report back that they were asked by Law Enforcement to look at a checkpoint, a National Guard check point to see if there were protestors around. Theres conflicting reports. I think we need to let the army conduct its inquiry and get back and see what the facts are. Reporter when you looked at the video look, i think when youre landing that low in a city, it looks unsafe to me, right, but i need to find i need to learn more about whats going on. It would not be unsafe if they were picking up somebody who was seriously injured or Something Like that. We have to find out all the facts, take it in and let the army do its work and come back with what they discovered. To your understanding it was not a Medevac Mission . To my understanding, it wasnt. I need to i need to actually head to the white house. I just want to wrap up by saying something to the directly to the men and women of the department of defense. Let me say this, as i said in my message to the department yesterday, i appreciate your professionalism and dedication to defending the constitution for all americans. Moreover, im amazed by the accomplishments of the department of defense in todays trying time, repatrioting americans from a foreign land, delivering food and medical supplies, and to protecting our cities and communities. In every challenge, and across every mission, the u. S. Military has remained ready, capable and willing to serve. As i reminded you in february, i ask that you remember at all times our commitment as a department and as Public Servants to stay apolitical. The United States military has earned the respect of the American People by being there to protect and serve all americans. Through your dedication to the mission and our core values, and your enduring support to your fellow americans, we will safeguard the hardearned trust and confidence to the public as your nations most respected institution. Thank you. You were just watching there the secretary of defense mark esper giving his first comments both on the matter of george floyd but more importantly answering important questions that have been circulating for the past couple of days since he participated in that photoop appearance at st. Johns church in washington, d. C. A very controversial photoop that led a lot of questions to who knew that was going to take place and at what cost in terms of dispersing the protestors. You heard the secretary of the defense there say that he was aware of the intent to go to the park, st. Johns but did not know about the specific tactics that were going to be used. He defended the National Guard saying at no point did they fire tear gas and rubber bullets. They were wearing the gear to protect themselves. Interesting enough, he did reference the fact that he does not want the military or the department to be seen as being political in all of this. He said he sometimes succeeds. He sometimes fails. He let the viewers conclude as to whether or not that photoop was a failure in doing so. Interestingly enough, the secretary of defense addressing concerns about the use of a National Guard helicopter that hovered very low above a neighborhood in washington, d. C. People were saying that the National Guard was intimidating protestors with that show of force. The detective secretary of defe saying theres been an inquiry that has been launch who ordered that. Well have more on that with our correspondent right now. Shannon pettypiece is at the white house. Let me bring you in and get your perspectives. The secretary of defense saying he wants to remain apolitical. Theres no doubt what we saw monday night by the president holding a bible was political. Reporter as you mentioned, ayman, hes saying he did not know that was the intent of the visit. He thought he was going to meet the troops and survey damage. Just to put the remarks in context. The defense secretary has been getting strong criticism from former Defense Department officials over his involvement and the National Guard and the militarys response to these demonstrations. James miller who is a former Defense Department official who is currently on a Defense Department advisory board, resigned from that board and in his resignation letter, he said you may not have been able to stop President Trump from directing this appalling use of force, but you could have chosen to oppose it. Instead you supported it. Criticism directly pointed at the defense secretary. One notable thing, i want to point out here, he talked about the insurrection act which is a little known act that would potentially give the president the ability to use the u. S. Military on american soil. He said that that is something that should be used as a last resort and that is something weve heard from white house officials who are starting to back walk whether that is something the president is seriously considering. Shannon pettypiece life for us in washington, d. C. We want to cross over to Morgan Chesky in minneapolis. Its great to have you with us. You heard there the secretary of defense talk a little bit and use the word murder in describing what happened to george floyd. Talk to us about the mood on the ground. Has it shifted over the past couple of days as we learn more about the Ongoing Investigation there . Reporter ayman, it continues to shift here. You cant come to this site where george floyd died and not feel a powerful emotion when you witness the people that have arrived here today to pay their respects to george floyd. The mood, meanwhile, is really looking forward to whats going to happen next. We know that Derek Chauvin has been charged with third degree murder and seconddegree manslaughter. The other offers have not been held accountable. The investigation into the minneapolis Police Department is an encouraging sight for a lot of people in this city. Ive heard this was not an isolated incident. Especially with this investigation, looking back a decade, ayman, they will be finding more evidence of discriminatory practices by the minneapolis Police Department. For the first time today, the governor of minnesota came to this intersection to pay his respects. I had a chance to ask what justice is in his eyes. Take a listen. Where youre standing, right now, what is justice . Its broader. Theres the justice for george floyd and his family. Thats the moment in time. But the much broader piece of that is the reforms that people are asking. I think the things that we saw were incremental movements. Theres no time for that. Reporter what reforms will come out of this has yet to be seen, ayman. We expect the family of george floyd to be arriving here with their attorney within an hour. We are expecting to hear from them on what they hope comes forward in the next few days. Ayman . Morgan chesky live in minneapolis. Joining me now is the reverend al sharpton, president of the National Action network and host of politics nation. He will deliver the eulogy at George Floyds service tomorrow. Its great to have you with us. Let me begin by getting your thoughts about this new civil rights investigation and how much faith you and the family think or have in that investigation from the minneapolis into the minneapolis Police Department as it is leading to meaningful reforms. It will depend on who does the investigation. Clearly, it cannot be a bandaid to try to deal with something that needs surgery. It would be better positioned if it was done by an external force that showed a track record of being able to really deal in a way that people who have confidence and trust in the findings and his recommendation. But the other part of this, it must hold police that break the law criminally accountable. We cannot just have some tea and biscuits kind of reform. We must say that there must be the law upheld against anyone that breaks the law, whether they wear blue jeans or blue uniform. Thats where it must again. And they must study the abuses of law breaking by officers. Not just inactions where they said things, but breaking the law that was excused and was not in any way held accountable. And then it would have credibility. Other than that, its just an attempt to put a bandaid over something much deeper than that. We have a lot of people who have been looking into the Police Departments tactics over the past couple of years are surprised that so much of this data was out in plain sight and the alarm bells didnt go off. The city shows that the minneapolis Police Department used force against black people at seven times the rate of white people during the past five years. Some are calling for new legislation on police reforms. Others want to defund Police Departments. I see that in Police Department. Where do you think the solution lies . I think the solution lies where we were headed in the Obama Administration where many of us put pressure and was able to work with the Obama Administration and Justice Department at that time and that is consent decrees where local Police Departments who had a pattern and practice of abuse or of dealing with situations that were not fair, they then took over those departments where the Justice Department guided it. I think you have to remove some of the municipalities from running the Police Department that have pattern and practice. But the problem is, you have a Justice Department now that is not committed to the right principle. You have to reform it where it is on a state level. I really think until we do that in terms of removing not only the funds but removing those that are responsible for the ongoing pattern and practices, you will only make incremental steps and not solve the problem. Before i let you go, i got to ask you about tomorrow. The entire country, the entire world is going to be watching the remarks youll be giving in that eulogy. What message do you want to convey . I want to console the family and let them know the world is with them. I want to challenge the world on why are we here again . This man, george floyd, was a value. His life is not something that is marginal or expendable and that people cannot be held accountable for. Weve been here before, whether it was eric garner, others that we have worked down through the years and why are we continuing to go to funerals that were not scheduled and should not have been on our calendars. And don the hands of the people that we pay to protect us. And no one protected. They in fact were the ones that took the life of george floyd. And the good news in a message of hope, weve seen more people stand up this time. We must seize the time to stop this and we must seize the time to correct the policies and laws and enforcement of those laws so we dont keep going from one scene to the next this this battle around criminal justice reform. I was going to say, youll see the world stand with you as well as the protestors have been around the world. Thank you so much. God speed to you. Coming up, our conversation with the mayor of philadelphia and the scenes of riot gear raising new concerns over the militarization of local Law Enforcement. Were going to talk to a congressman who says our neighborhoods, theyre not war zones and is pressing legislation to make changes. A look at protests that happened in some of the smaller cities around the country. Were just Getting Started in philadelphia. Stay with us. I didnt do it. 1 stain and odor fighter, 1 trusted. Its got to be tide. Did you know prilosec otc can stobefore it begins . Urn heartburn happens when stomach acid refluxes into the esophagus. Prilosec otc uses a unique delayedrelease formula that helps it pass through the tough stomach acid. It then works to turn down acid production, blocking heartburn at the source. With just one pill a day, you get 24hour heartburn protection. Prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Less oral steroids. Taking my treatment at home. Nucala is a oncemonthly addon injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. Not for sudden breathing problems. Allergic reactions can occur. Get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. Infections that can cause shingles have occurred. Dont stop steroids unless told by your doctor. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. May cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. Ask your doctor about nucala at home. Find your nunormal with nucala. Back here in philadelphia, i spoke with the mayor, jim kenny, a short time ago. We talked about a whole host of things including President Trumps rhetoric, the state of Race Relations in philadelphia, as well as the removal of the statue of frank rizzo. He had a poor record on Race Relations. He encouraged voters to vote white. I asked mayor kenny why they decided to take it down after all of these years under the cover of darkness . Its been there for 20 years. I dont think any mayor should have a statue of themselves. I dont want one for me. But the point is, it represented to a large segment of your population a time where people felt oppressed, people felt that they were not treated fairly and that they were policed unfairly. In the light of all of this issue regarding policing in america and the interaction or the relationship between the police and communities of color and the stress and anger that weve seen around the country in the last week, we thought that an effort to begin the healing process, it was time to take this symbol of the 60s and 70s, down, similar to what happened down south when the confederate monuments were removed. For many philadelphians they were not happy that they had to traverse a plaza with a memorial of someone that they felt was oppressive to them and we needed to move it we needed to remove it in order to move on. As part of the healing process . Its the beginning of the healing process. Its a down payment. Its not the end of the healing process. Its the beginning, its symbolic beginning of how we need to look at ourselves and each other and to treat each other equally and equitably and thats not happened in our countrys history. How far from that era, from what he symbolized back in the 70s, have we moved as a city . Weve moved a little bit. I think Race Relations between people are better. I dont think institutions have evolved the same way people have evolved and we need to bring our institutions forward, our policing, our prisons, our criminal justice system, we need to move that forward to treat everybody equitably and make people feel theyre a part they have full 100 american rights. Let me ask you quickly, the state of philadelphia this morning, you heard the language of the president calling philadelphia a mess. He wants tougher action in cities like this. Do you feel weve turned the corner in this city about where im hoping that we have turned a corner in this particular situation. The president adds no value to anything he says. What i would ask people to do is ignore him and hopefully hell be gone in november and we can move on as a nation. But his calls for being tough and being restrictive and being dominant and all that other crap that he spews is not helpful and it makes people more angry and divided. Thats his goal is to divide the country to a point where his supporters who wont budge from him will get him reelected. Thank you. Stay safe. That was my interview earlier today with the mayor of philadelphia, mayor jim kenny. At the same time that is happening, were looking at live pictures from washington, d. C. , protestors continuing the ninth day of marches onto capitol hill. Were going to keep tracking those protests for you and see how they play out over the course of the next couple of hours. Speaking of protests, as protests over George Floyds death enter their ninth day, scenes of militarized responses are playing all over the country. Mark esper adding to concerns when describing what he is seeing on u. S. Soil as battle spaces. He certainly mentioned that during a Conference Call with governors. He tried to elaborate on that a short time ago. Thats leading to renewed scrutiny of a Pentagon Program that transfers military weaponry to local agencies. Some lawmakers are trying to push to crack down on that program. Joining me now is one of those lawmakers of arizona. Hes a member of the Armed Services and committee and a former marine. Its great to have you with me. I talked a little bit about some of the things that Law Enforcement agencies receive. They include things like armored vehicles, grenade launchers. Youre hoping to restrict that program a little bit. Some are saying end it completely. Why not end it all together . Now, if this continues, we should ban it. I will want to make sure we give credit to the person who instituted this and thats the congressman from georgia. He was my colleague on the Armed Services committee and hes been the leader in this effort. I wanted to get your thoughts, vox explains that the roots of the program that was created in 1990, it was in the drug war, its roots were in the drug war and it never required that police be trained on the proper use or deployment on the kind of equipment that weve been talking about. How big of a role does that play into how we police our inner cities in our communities . Well, it plays a big role. The biggest problem right now, you have a lot of men and women that have never served in the military, have never served in combat, dont know how to use this in a safe manner and also to a certain degree, its not necessary. Our streets are not combat zonings, our police are not the military and our civilians are not combatants. I served in iraq. I had to fight in cities. I had to determine who was civilian, who were combatants. Thats not whats happening right now. Our Police Officers do not need these types of weaponry. They have not been using it in a responsible manner. Theres been very little oversight and we need to rein this in. If we can rein this in, then, yes, we get rid of it. Theres a new article in the Washington Post that describes concerns among current and former intelligence officials over the similarity to events at home and the signs of decline or democratic regression they were trained to detect in nations overseas. It includes massing es of protestors. Do you share those concerns at all when you see the trajectory of where were going around topics of policing and freedom of speech, attacks on journalists . Ive seen failed states. Ive also seen states where youve had authoritarian regimes pushing back. The way to stop this is not to have a strongman. The way to stop this is not to have some weird symbolology by putting hundreds of National Guardsman at the Lincoln Memorial and shutting it off from our every day citizens. The way to do this is to deescalate and passing legislation to answer the questions of what your citizens want. The reason you have these types of problems in other states other nation states is because the government is not responsive to the need of the people. The people right now are asking for justice. Theyre asking for accountability. If we actually had justice and accountability, you wouldnt have people in the streets. This is nyoung men and women wh are asking for change. We have a democracy, lets actually answer that and then that would solve at least 95 , maybe 99 , of all of these protests. All right, congressman, thank you very much for joining us this hour. I appreciate your insights as always. I want to bring in Cedric Alexander who has nearly four decades of Law Enforcement experience including as police chief. He served on president obamas 21st Century Policing task force. Great to have you with us on this very important conversation. Lets pick up on that program there for a moment that involves the sale of military equipment to Law Enforcement agencies. Vox also says, quote, police have to deploy the equipment at least once within a year to keep it. And that incentivizes them to use the gear when perhaps it wasnt necessary. How big of a role does that play in what youre seeing . Let me say this from the perspective of a former police chief. We have become very overmilitarized. Theres no question about that. Heres what we cannot dismisses, there are going to be certain circumstances where we may have to fight a foe to protect you and me, domestic terrorists who may have highpowered weapons. Usually that type of military equipment is reserved for very specialized trained Police Officers, better known to many as s. W. A. T. They should be the ones that have the equipment to be utilized in high in very highly dangerous situations. You will have to have a way to move your men and women in on those swat teams, under protective armer to be able to get them to a threat, to locate a threat and to be able to neutralize that threat. But for the Everyday Police officer thats out there on the street, i totally agree with the congressman and millions of americans in these neighborhoods that sometimes we can become too overmilitarized. However, in situations where you have riots, where people are throwing glass and bottles and so forth, yes, those officers have to be equipped and have on the necessary gear in order to protect themselves to keep control of your cities. So in that sense, what im saying is this, there has to be some controls, there has to be some policies, there has to be some oversight in Police Departments. But you just cannot arbitrarily give this equipment and weaponry to anybody in okay just because they want it. Fair enough, sir. Let me ask you about this. Weve seen a lot of the videos going on around online. Its not necessarily about the weapons theyre using. Its about how they use what they have. You look at some of the videos of police hitting people on the head with their batons, theyre pushing people onto the streets, driving a vehicle, a Police Vehicle through a crowd. If you were a police chief, how would you be directing officers not just about handling this equipment, but the mentality of policing generally . Tear gas, for example, is classified as a chemical weapon. Its sometimes used as crowd control and we know the consequences of that . What we saw the other night where we had peaceful protestors who were protesting on our streets should have not been attacked the way that they were by armed forces. That was just not right. I think we all agree with that. But in situations where we know we have identifiable individuals who are throwing rocks, bottles, may even be firing shots, yes, you have to have the protection in order to be able to engage those. But you cannot apply that to ev should not have to feel that their Police Department or their military is not on their side. These are citizens. American ci. They should be able to go out and peacefully protest. Those throwing rocks, molotov cocktails or firing rounds, yes, they need to be dealt with appropriately. In the case of what we all saw the other night, the American People dont accept that and neither do i. All right, senator alexander, thank you for joining us on this very important toing. As we bring you back to the heart of philadelphia here, people all over the world are feeling the impact of George Floyds death. Protests have erupted around the world calling for an end to Police Brutality and the racial injusti injustice. Even the pope weighing in this morning talking directly to the u. S. , we cannot tolerate or turn or blind eye to racism, also recognizing the disturbing social unrest taking place in our nation. Nbc Senior International correspondent keir simmons joining us from london in one of those protests. Tell us what youre seeing and how does that translate to what youve been monitoring globally. Reporter from you in philadelphia to here in london, the same message echoing around the world. You can see some pretty extraordinary scenes here. I dont think ive seen many protests quite like this. There are thousands of people, most of them are very young, very mixed, but they are also right up against the gates of parliament there, as you can see. And i havent seen such light touch policing for a protest ive rarely seen it. If you look behind me here, underneath the statue of churchill, that the Westminster Bridge in the background. You can see a couple of red buses just stopped in the traffic. These demonstrators are being allowed to have their voice heard, and its stunning really to see the different kind of messages that are talked about. Black lives matter, talking about george floyd, but also talking about other issues here in the uk. One sign saying britain has blood on its hands. Another, ayman, is saying british people should be taught about colonialism. Really amazing to see this and other protests, 20,000 in paris and around the world, raising questions beyond just whats happening there. Big questions around the world about the impact of racism, ayman. Keir simmons live in london, thank you very much for that. Were back here in the city center of philadelphia, the center city as they call it. Over the past couple days weve seen these protests, yesterday being the largest protests ive seen since ive been on the ground. We walked for the better part of six hours with thousands of peaceful marchers. It gives the city a little bit of hope. Theres still a lot of anger. Overnight we saw a small and important symbolic victory, the removal of the former mayor and Police Commissioner frank rizzo over my shoulder. I want to bring in philadelphia pastor carl daye. I want to get your thoughts about what weve seen play out. Youve got the removal of the frank rizzo statue. It would seem philadelphia is beginning the healing. Definitely an emotional time for the city. Saturday night i alluded to it. No coincidence that frank rizzo statue is one of the first things the city targeted. It brought a lot of trauma to the history of our city. I think its a small victory, at least some acknowledgment of the trauma and whatnot. Its a step. I do believe a lot of those protesters were the reason and that enough is enough. I think we can take steps torts healing, seeing the city move forward and see where we go from here. As you mentioned, small symbolic victory. A lot of work needs to be done on the ground. Youre a resident here. Whats the work that needs to be done . You take the statue down, youve got to work on the policy of policing, too. It starts there. Also us as a community, we keep the same emergency and passion, understanding this thing aint going away overnight or in a week. Weve got to continue to work together, get behind the leaders, join those movements, keep the energy. How do you translate thousands of people here, a lot of young folks to change what youre talking about, to get the young people who are woke, if you want, into the police force, into Civil Service and not just out on the streets . What do you have to do to do that . One thing, and ill credit the mayor and the commissioner. Theyve given people like me a voice at the table. My ability to reach the youth as well. It takes a lot more intentional education. Meeting the people where they are in stead of asking them to come to our doors. We have to bring the information to them, let them know, the meetings are taking place in the city, ways to impact the polls. Letting them know what kind of bills are being passed orr trying to be passed along. That comes from bringing the knowledge to the people instead of just expecting the people to research it themselves. When you talk about the city of philadelphia, people who may not know it, think of it as the city of brotherly love. What do you want people to take away from you that can be applied elsewhere and other cities in america going through the same situation . I would like people to think you made the point about people being peaceful, a lot of peaceful protests went forward. A lot of coverage of looting and rioting. I want people to see the passion of philly. If we come together, we can see things happen together. Thats what i hope people take away. Pass star carl day, thank you for joining us. Stay safe. As you heard there, very powerful words and giving people a sense of hope, a sense of optimism. Over the past couple days weve seen that play out on the streets. Theres no doubt there has been some instances of violence and looting. But the overwhelming majority has been peaceful. Im going to close out with the final words of what the mayor told me. He said, this is not the end. The removal of the statue is not the end of the pain. Its the beginning of the healing. We hope that carries on beyond the streets of philadelphia. Thank you for watching this hour. Im Ayman Mohyeldin on msnbc. Keep it right here. My colleague craig melvin will pick up our coverage after the break from new york. Stay with us. Which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. Ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 metastatic Breast Cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. Ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole, and shrank tumors in over half of patients. 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Craig melvin coming to you live from new york city at the foot of the manhattan bridge. More dmon strass expected today. Last night that included a group on the bridge behind me. He was the scene around 9 30. Thousands of protesters joining together to enter manhattan. A large police force ultimately contained them for some time between manhattan and brooklyn