Coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories. Chairman, Paul Manafort. He has pleaded not guilty, but heres why this really matters. The first trial to come out of the Mueller Investigation will give us the most detailed snapshot yet of what cards Robert Mueller really has. And as soon as this week, the president s lawyer says he could decide whether to sit for an interview with the mueller team, although weve heard that one before. Right now the president s not happy with mueller. Donald trump firing off a whole bunch of tweets, trashing the investigation, offering up new details, too about his previous claims of mueller conflicts of interest, claims the Justice Department has shot down. Lets go to the white house with nbcs kristen welker, here to get us started. Rudy guiliani had more to say about all of this, just a couple of hours ago, including what seemed to be a shifting of the goalpost, no . Reporter it was striking, hallie, to hear Rudy Guiliani, yes, seem to shift the goal posts on this key issue of collusion. As you pointed out, whether or not there was collusion, Rudy Guiliani seeming to suggest no big deal. Why is that important . Well, because, of course, the president s key talking point
fixer, Michael Cohen, trying to discredit him. And as you pointed out, President Trump taking aim at Special Counsel, Robert Mueller, calling him out by name, saying that there are conflicts of interest, calling the investigation illegal. In terms of those conflicts of interest, we reached out to the Special Counsel, got no reaction. But we can tell you that back in june, Deputy Attorney general, Rod Rosenstein, said there were no conflicts of interest. That they were aware of that would prevent this investigation from moving forward. Now, you and i, among the reporters here at the white house last week, hallie, that tried on ten separate occasions to ask President Trump about all of this. He ignored all of our questions, but today, joint press conference, i know youre going to rush back for it. And we will have our questions ready. 2 00 p. M. Eastern, 11 00 pacific. Rudy guiliani is also making news about the june 16 meeting between the Trump Campaign and the russians at trump tower. Heres what he said. Listen. This meeting that cohen is talking about took place before
the meeting with the russians. The other thing thats contradicted is cohen also now says, because he says too much, that two days before, he would participate in a meeting with roughly the same group of people, but not the president. Definitely not the president in which they were talking about the strategy of the meeting with the russians. The people in that meeting deny it. The people weve been able to interview. The people we have not been able to interview have never said that about that meeting. So im joined now by nbc news intelligence and National Security reporter, ken delaney. Ken, can you explain this . Details about a meeting before this meeting with the russians that everyone has talked about. Reporter as you can imagine, hallie, ive spent the last hour trying to get to the bottom of this. A source familiar with the congressional testimony of all these participants, Paul Manafort, donald trump jr. , Jared Kushner and Michael Cohen said none of them brought up the idea there was a premeeting, a
strategy session to talk about how to approach this Infamous Trump tower meeting with the russians. And as we parsed Rudy Guilianis words there, what he seems to be saying or could be saying is that Michael Cohen is now saying that such a meeting took place with these other people. And that these other people deny that. So there seems to be a dispute about whether there was such a meeting. But even that is huge news. Never before discussed or revealed to the public. If thats cohens story now. Because what it would suggest is that this meeting, far from the nothing burger that some of the participants have described in kind of a 20minute useless waste of time, they were strategizing for it, if this is true, getting ready for it. And it raises the stakes again for what this meeting may have been. After all, it was taken with a promise of incriminating information about hillary clinton, the democratic candidate for president , hallie. So, ken, i know youre going to continue to work on that. Were any of these people involved in this alleged meeting that guiliani says cohen is talking about, were they ever asked about it by congressional investigators, do we know . Did they ever say, hey, did you
ever strategy about this meeting before the meeting . Well, we dont know the answer to that, because we havent seen their secret testimony. Some of them sat for nine hours of interviews. What my source says was every question you could imagine about the context of this meeting was asked. So it stands to reason that if this meeting would have happened, they would have been asked some question that would have led them to reveal it, hallie. Ken delaney. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Joined by assistant attorney general tom dupree, kimberly atkins, Chief Washington reporter for the Boston Herald and ms. S in contributor. Jonathan allen also at the table. Tom, to you first, broadly here. Is Rudy Guiliani at all in trouble for what he just said . Or is Michael Cohen more in trouble for what Rudy Guiliani is talking about . Hallie, i cant make sense of what rudy is saying. And rudy likes to freelance a bit. A bit . And its difficult to tell times whether hes actually intending to make news or whether hes actually intending to make a disclosure or whether he just didnt phrase it the right way. I agree, if it turns out there was a premeeting before this meeting at trump tower, that is
very significant. It does seem a little peculiar that rudy, if that is what happened, would disclose it in this way. Although he seemed to be saying that cohen was lying about this meeting anyway, so he was bringing it up just to bat it back down. But why even go down there. Whats thats puzzling about this. There is also this piece, broadly seen under the umbrella of President Trump and his legal team, Rudy Guiliani, escalating now. In the last 48 hours, attacks against the Special Counsel and attacks against the investigation, and attacks against Michael Cohen. I think ive actually been on the set and literally said those words before the escalation piece. Thats because it keeps happening here. What are the pieces of escalation is this idea of conflicts of interest from Robert Mueller . If you have a little bit of dejavu, there is reason for that. The president had alluded to this. The New York Times reported out some of these illusions a couple months ago. Here are the specifics of what the president is saying his conflicts of interest are. A dispute over fees at the Trump National golf club. Turned down mueller who head the fbi. Says mueller worked for the law firm that represents jared
kushner. Deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein who oversees this investigation said this in front of lawmakers just recently. Mr. Chairman, if there were any conflicts of interest brought to our attention, i would discuss it with mr. Mueller and then there could be review within the department, if there were credible allegation of a conflict of interest. And so im not aware of any disqualifying conflict of interest. Yeah, i certainly havent seen any disqualifying conflicts of interest here. And i think the thing to keep in mind is that the president when he sends out these tweets, this is a shotgun approach. He is saying heres a whole bunch of things that in his opinion should disqualify mueller. Hes not playing to a District Judge to try to disqualify mueller. He is playing to the court of public opinion. I think from the president s mind, if he just starts making these attacks on bob mueller, hes got this, hes got this, hes got the golf club, the job, his law firm. Some residue of that will somehow stick in the public consciousness and people therefore may ultimately question what bob mueller concludes. Thats at least the strategy i think theyre going with here. Does that hold up no matter how many times we play that . Department of justice saying none of these are problems for us. Yeah, also keep in mind that Paul Manafort is about to go on trial. I think this is the big buildup this week. And the president is sort of trying to get out ahead of that to discredit this investigation as much as possible. Its also taking hold. Polling is showing that particularly among republicans, that there is less and less that there is less and less they believe Robert Mueller less and less, as this thing goes on, as the president continues this relentless Twitter Campaign against him. So i think he sees it so far as at least paying some dividends. You talk about, tom and john i want your take on this, the idea that there is a Public Relations strategy now. 24 hours ahead of the start of Jury Collectiselection for the manafort case, in which the president is bringing up concerns with the Special Counsel investigation more broadly. His own lawyer, however, does not seem to know what exactly those conflicts of interest might be. Because Rudy Guiliani was asked about it this morning. Its up to the president to
describe it if in further detail if he elects to do so. Or if mueller would like to come out and explain why its not a conflict, i invite bob to do it. If there was let me finish. We waived the privilege when the whole thing came out, because we were anxious to have you get the truth. So lets see if mueller has that same impulse. Rudy guiliani is no longer what any of us would really consider a lawyer in terms of actively practicing the law. The president seems to think so. The president is has hired him to do that. If you were a lawyer, he would not have just said on television in one of the earlier clips, that the president obviously didnt pay the russian hackers, because what that does is raises the question of whether russia was giving an Illegal Campaign contribution to the president , which is part of this entire investigation. Im astounded that anybody that would call themselves a lawyer would raise that on national television. And create the impression that they believe that they got something of value from the russians without paying for it. So number one on that. Number two, definitely a pr
strategy going on here. The president always tries to undermine anybody who is seen as an independent broker, whether that be a judge, Gonzalez Curiel way back in the day. Whether its reporters. We saw what he did with the New York Times over the weekend. He basically tried to use the times as a propaganda tool. Fortunately, the times pushed back hard. And you see this going on with Robert Mueller, who has not not only a sterling reputation, but the things the president thinks are conflict of interest are only as they are pertained to him being hurt by them. The president is not an honest broker when it comes to conflicts of interest. He has engaged in a lot of them and seems to think other people have them where they dont exist. This comes as kimberly mentioned, 24 hours ahead of the Manafort Trial. The broader context of this when it comes to the Special Counsel investigation, obviously we know that manaforts Defense Attorneys have said and the prosecutor told the judge, he doesnt anticipate even saying the word, like russia, talking about the broader implications for the mueller legal team. How do you see that playing out . My sense is that the Manafort Trial is not going to implicate
a lot of the issues that mueller is directly looking at right now in terms of the president s role in collusion and things of that nature. My guess is that the president knows that the Manafort Trial is going to consume a lot of the oxygen over the next week. There is going to be a lot of press about this and hes trying to lay a foundation, plant seeds in the public consciousness that this is an investigation that simply cant be trusted. Youve also got republicans now, as richard blooming that will is pointing out, trying to pump the brakes on the idea of the Witch Hunt Piece of this. Heres what the senator said this morning on this network. We do have republicans in the senate beginning to show some signs of resistance to this consistent, Concerted Campaign against the Special Counsel. Remember, this campaign has been ongoing for some time. Not just the president calling it a witch hunt, but also some of his i hesitate to say stooges, but surrogates in the house. Saying that it is all made up. Yeah. I mean, youre seeing
republicans who were standing up and saying this is not a witch hunt. Youre seeing republicans in both houses of congress saying, look, we need to back up our Law Enforcement amgencies and attacking them is not in the short term or long term a good strategy for republicans. Sort of not a big group, but you see some folks sort of standing up against the president there. I got busted looking at my phone. Sorry, its only because we have in just a minute ago a response now from Michael Cohens attorney, lanny davis, to some of the comments Rudy Guiliani has been making. I say response. Spoiler, its not. Davis is declining to comment. Well talk about that later in the show. Tom, thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. Kimberly and jonathan, youve got to stick around. I know you want to. Much more ahead, including the president throwing out a strategy that sounds a lot like republicans worst nightmare. Why he says hed shut down the government about a month before the mid terms and why that might mean a big win for democrats. Oh, look. Another antiwrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® works in just one week. With the fastest Retinol Formula available. Its clinically proven to work on fine lines and wrinkles. One week . That definitely works rapid wrinkle repair®. And for dark spots, rapid tone repair. Neutrogena®. See whats possible. Take prilosec otc and take control of heartburn. So you dont have to stash antacids here. Here. Or, here. Kick your Antacid Habit with prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Theres also a lot to know. The most important thing . Medicare doesnt pay for everything. Yep. Youre on the hook for the rest. So consider an aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company. A plan like this helps pay some of what medicare doesnt. So you could end up paying less. And these are the only plans of their kind
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going on here. He wants to get people excited about the midterm. So doug, should this president ial threat be taken seriously if youre a republican on the hill . Absolutely. Hes done things before which did not appear to be in his narrow interest. Look at the tariffs. I think one of the lessons he learned earlier this year is hey, you can shut down the government, it doesnt hurt the economy. People always say you dont want to disrupt the economy. He did it, the economy is growing fast, so its like whats the harm. Might as well rattle the sabers again. Chuck schumer telling our team, the bill the president is describing only got 39 votes on the senate floor. He should learn from his mistakes. He should learn from his mistakes and im sure democrats are happy now. When you Start Talking about a shutdown, there are a few things that are less popular among voters. If youre talking about that ahead of mid terms, and especially at a time when republicans control everything. So if there is a shutdown, republicans are going to be held to pay for it at the polls. Luckily for republicans, at this point the president seems to be the boy who cries wolf, because
he keeps bringing up shutdowns about this border wall, and it sort of eventually just kind of goes away. I think thats what republicans are hoping happens again. Republicans like, for example, senator ron johnson, who was out yesterday talking about this. Doug, heres what he said. I think hopefully most of the Appropriation Bills will be passed. A little better prioritization of spending. I dont like playing shutdown politics. And how damaging would that be for republicans ahead of the november races . I dont think it would be helpful. So lets try and avoid it. No, probably not super helpful. Probably not super helpful, yes. Up with of the things that hasnt been talked about a lot is congress is actually making a lot of progress on the Spending Bills. Theyre usually way behind schedule. You need both republicans and democrats to get through the senate. This is something that has to be bipartisan. So if they go ahead and do their business, its not going to be democrats shutting the government. Its going to be the president shutting the government. Thats a different political dynamic. How do you weigh the president of shutting down the
government because of a border wall versus shutting it down in this attempt to rally the base . How do you parse out the distinction here . Who ends up winning . I think this reflects just a fundamental difference in how you view the mid terms. So if youre a house republican, you love for the mid terms to be all about local issues. Youve got a strong economy, we did that, tax cuts, deregulation. You take Care Of Business On Opioids or whatever are big issues in your district and off you go to try to beat the democrats. The president thinks im going to deliver the house, im going to deliver the election, lets nationalize this. So theyre in different places. Yeah, i think the president is operating from, yes, two things. One, that sort of broad view that he is the republican party. And then more narrow view about himself and whats in his own interest. And you see that reflect and had that does not particularly on the house, that does not necessarily gel with what republicans are looking for. Go, john. If hes right about that strategy, its smart for him politically. Because the odds of the senate flipping are very small under
any circumstances. And the odds of the House Flipping are much greater. So for him to do something that he thinks is helpful, the house members makes sense, all that said a long shutdown is bad for him. A short shutdown may not matter either way or go the way he likes. Doug, you alluded to a number of things that some lawmakers are trying to hope plays well in their district. But congress has to get some of that done. There is a congressional todo list that is fairly long. Family separations at the border. Deal with russianrelated issues. Tax cuts 2. 0. Sexual harassment legislation. Opioid bills, funding deadline on the 30th. Its not as though there is nothing else for these lawmakers to be doing. Right. And the president keeps dialing back to the one thing they have proven they cant get agreement on, which is the immigration bill, which is the wall. Versus the opioid bill. They had 59 in the house, and they can get it done in the senate. And the Spending Bills i think will be the key. If theyre making great progress, the last thing theyre going to want to do is upset that progress with some sort of threat over a shutdown. You talked about how the
economy didnt seem to falter too badly from the last shutdown. Is it possible that could happen again come the fall . You could probably shut the government for a short time and not suffer much political or economic damage. Pleasure to have you on. Kimberly, jonathan, stick around. Rudy guiliani, as we have been talking about, is lashing out against Michael Cohen. Calling him a pathological manipulator, downplaying the impact of that recently revealed recording. But is guiliani counting cohen out too soon . Why the president s former fixer may be seen as more credible than guiliani thinks. Your hair is so soft did you use head and shoulders two in one . I did mom. Wanna try it . Yes. It intensely moisturizes your hair and scalp and keeps you flake free. Manolo . Look at my soft hair. I should be in the shot now too. Try head and shoulders two in one. I we worked with pg eof to save energy because wenie. Wanted to help the school. They would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didnt cut off the light. The teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. So they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. We actually saved 50,000. And thats just one school, two semesters, three girls. Together, were building a better california. A recent meeting between the u. S. And the taliban and qatar marks the biggest diplomatic effort to end the war in five years. The last attempt in 2013 failed. And Supreme Court justice, ruth bader ginsburg, says she is not going anywhere, at least not for another five years, she says. It comes a month after President Trump nominated conservative Brett Kavanaugh to the high court. She talked after a performance of The Originalist sunday, a play about antonin scalia. And said she planned to stay on the court until she was 90. Lets get to Rudy Guilianis comments from a few hours ago. The lead attorney on President Trumps legal team is going off the credibility of President Trumps former attorney, Michael Cohen. Hes talking pretty candidly about why he thinks cohen is just now talking about tapes and meetings at trump tower. Watch. Whats in it for Michael Cohen to say that the president knew about that meeting . Why is he lying about that . Youve got to be kidding me. No. You have to be kidding me. Hes the big fish you dont give up what is co cohen going to do . A couple taxicab drivers . Thats going to get him out of jail . The big fish the reason i got manafort In Solitaire Confinement is so hell give up donald trump, not because hell give up some russian or ukrainian he does business with. Joining me now is daniel goldman, legal analyst, former assistant u. S. Attorney for the district of new york and fellow at the Brennan Center for justice. Kimberly and daniel are here too. Whats your reaction to what you gist heard from Rudy Guiliani . Its hard to come up with enough words to react to this. Come up with one. Rudy guiliani has lost all credibility. And he had some time ago. And now when he starts talking about the fact that the hacking is the crime, or collusion is not a crime. He is once again and i know you talked about this earlier, moving the goal posts. Of course, a crime is hacking. And no one actually thinks that collusion is the crime. The crime, of course, is conspiracy to defraud the united states, which, by the way, bob mueller has already charged in other indictments against russians. So this is sort of a pr game that guiliani and the president have been trying to play that has no legal merit. You talk about this question of credibility, which i think is interesting. Here is Something Else that guiliani said about Michael Cohen, and then i want to read something to you that one of our analysts wrote about this. Watch. Said there was a oneonone meeting that donald jr. Came in and told him about the meeting was about to take place. Well, there are two witnesses who say it didnt happen. The president and his son. Right. Self interest in saying. And cohen has a much bigger Self Interest in saying the opposite in order to get himself in favor with mueller. Also, in all these months in all these tapes, hes never said it. And all of a sudden it appears
now when hes maybe going to go to jail and hes singing for his supper. Come on. But heres what Danny Cevallos says. Its hard to see how cohen has any credibility. What he should add is in the universe of cooperating witnesses, cohen may be more credible than most. Especially some of those criminals guiliani cooperated with in the course of his career. Do you agree . I do. You lie with the witnesses that have evidence, right . So, you know, youre not going to have a nun or a priest who is involved in a criminal conspiracy. Youre going to cooperate witnesses who are involved in the criminal activity. So the real question you need to ask with the Credibility Issues as to Michael Cohen and others and allison cam rata hit the nail on the head this morning is
who has a Self Interest, and whose interest does lying benefit . If Michael Cohen is lying about something against his Self Interest, thats very unusual. People dont lie against their Self Interest. They lie in their Self Interest. But at the end of the day, bob mueller is not charging any crime, the Southern District of new york is not charging any crime based on Michael Cohens word alone. So its not going to be a he said he said. There has to be significant corroboration, because Michael Cohen himself has credibility problems. He is not a very clean witness. He has stated, by the way, that don jr. Testified honestly when he said that his father did not know about that meeting. If he now then goes into the Southern District and says he did know about that meeting, he better have a lot of other evidence to back it up. Kimberly. Yeah, i mean, look. When it comes to legal strategy coming from Rudy Guiliani, i as an attorney, makes my head explode to try to find it. That is not whats happening here. What you are seeing is confusion and obfuscation, trying to, again, make sure you secure the base as this is all going on and just to say that there are so many things wrong with this, and its not really a crime, and if it is, its not that big i mean, just sort of put all that aside. Its guilianis credibility thats really being destroyed here, because everything we said we heard him say the tape didnt mention any payment and then the tape comes out and mentions a payment. I mean, nothing that he said himself has turned out. But on the issue correct, yes. Is Michael Cohen, does he have Credibility Issues, yes. This is how investigations go. Theres a lot more evidence, even evidence that we may not have even seen yet in this investigation that could corroborate what he says. Daniel, before i let you go, talk about this issue of the tape. Lanny davis did give a statement from Saturday Night in which when guiliani appears to cast out on this recording, says guiliani expressly waived Attorney Client privilege and inaccurately talked and talked
about the recording, forfeiting all confidentiality. So guiliani was asked about that this morning, specifically the idea of waiving attorneyclient privilege. Heres what he said. Why did you waive the attorneyclient privilege for the cohen tapes . Because i know the whole tape and i could bring out parts of the tape. For example, if i didnt waive it, i wouldnt be able to tell you that he cuts it off abruptly, which he does. Right after the word check, it ends. And what youre hearing so, dana, does that hold water to you, the waiving of the attorneyclient privilege here . Absolutely not. Why not . The biggest reason is that even if it gets out in public, if you maintain and you preserve your attorneyclient privilege, it cant be used against you in court. So even if he were to say, oh, i want to be able to discuss it, or its out there in public, it doesnt it hurts him in court to the extent that the substance of the recording is inculltory,
and just as kimberly was saying, your argument here, mr. Guiliani is that the tape cut off and therefore we should ignore Everything Else thats on the tape . That is the first piece of evidence that shows donald trump had knowledge of the Karen Mcdougal payment. That is a huge, huge piece of evidence that to this point we did not know. You can try to spin the fact that it cut off, but the fact of the matter is, that inculpates the president. It doesnt waive attorneyclient privilege. The judge would rule it was under the crime fraud exception. Daniel goldman, thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. Kimberly and jonathan, stick around. We are doing a deep dive into the west wing, specifically talking about the Chief Of Staffs status, one year into the job. All those reports that said maybe he would head out. How are those doing now . Were going to talk about that. Plus, the president s feud with the New York Times and what that means more broadly. Nis were made for Better Things than Psoriatic Arthritis. As you and your rheumatologist consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. Xeljanz xr is a oncedaily pill for Psoriatic Arthritis. Taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of Psoriatic Arthritis. Dont let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. Example. But the general who led Service Members for years started to see the Chain Of Command break down earlier this year. Remember when kelly was wrapped up in his Big Inside The White House scandal . Thats when secretary rob porter resigned and kelly pushed back on reports he knew about the abuse allegations but didnt do anything about them. That was in february of this past year. By the time april rolled around, the ap was reporting the president had frozen out his Chief Of Staff. President trump telling one confidante he was, quote, tired of being told no. At the end of april, eight current and former white house officials told nbc news, kelly had repeatedly insulted the president s intelligence, calling him an idiot multiple times, casting himself as the savior of the country. Kelly called our report, quote, total bs. Then in june at the height of that furor over Family Separations at the border, politico reported this. Quote, while kelly himself once believed he stood between trump and chaos, he has told at least one person close to him he may as well let the president do what he wants, even if it leads to impeachment. At least this chapter of American History would come to a close. 11 days after that, the president said this about his chief aboard air force one. Are you looking for a new Chief Of Staff, mr. President . No. No, were getting along very well. Look, at some point things happen. But i will tell you, we have a very good you see that. We have a very good relationship. Joining me now is matt mclarty, former Chief Of Staff himself to president clinton. Kimberly and jonathan here as well. So mac theres a new political report out that says one republican close to the white house says john kelly is just Chief Of Staff in name only. Is that even possible . How does that work . And is that even fair, because there are other members of the administration who do have a lot of confidence in john kelly. I think two truths can be held at the same time. I dont think theres any question that general kelly has not been able to impose the kind of order and structure and discipline that he would have liked to impose or put in place as a former general. By the same token, i think he still has good relations on the
hill, is a calming, positive influence there. But i think at the end of the day, you know, theres the saying, let trump be trump. I think President Trump is going to be President Trump. And in this case, thats not going to lend itself to a conventional relationship between the president and his Chief Of Staff. How about this Politico Article that were looking at here, kimberly and jonathan . There is nothing that ticks people off inside the white house when you put up Politico Articles and talk about them on tv. Do you think its legit that there is an Expiration Date for john kelly . People have been predicting his demise as Chief Of Staff pretty much since he took the job. And while it may feel like the longest ten years of his life this last year, you know, i think its hard to know until the president pulls the trigger on Something Like that, and who would know about that until i mean, i dont know. Again, i think we are quick to watch that and its important to watch Whats Going On in terms. Process. And also the extent to which john kelly gets fed up with the president. So the and decides to leave. But weve been hearing this for months and months and months. And it has not been true. We always say that the at least on this show, that the process and the personnel are important as to relates to policy, right . And this is an example of that. Gabe sherman reported out that after and you mentioned this a little bit, mack. His relationships on the hill. Gabe sherman says according to three sources familiar with the situation, after that putin summit in finland, kelly called around two republicans on capitol hill and gave them the go ahead to speak out against President Trump. Would you have done that . I think i would have had great pause about doing that. Hopefully i would not have been in a position to feel like i needed to consider doing that, hallie. I think thats part of the tension, part of the dynamic here is general kelly has served our country as family, as well, with valor, distinction. I think he came to government for all the right reasons. And so clearly that rather dizzying preamble you had leading into this segment, hes been frustrated. Hes been concerned. And i think that shows. But once you get that much distance between a Chief Of Staff and a president , its usually not a good thing. Kelly hasnt been totally pressshy on a small number of instances. A couple of times hes come into the Briefing Room and talked with members of the media. Hes done those briefings. He reportedly has called reporters back into his office to have conversations. Like, for example, after the rob porter situation. His boss has a very different relationship with the media, antagonistic one, and that came in full view this weekend when the president tweeted about this conversation with the publisher of the New York Times who then said, well, you put an off the record conversation on the record so im going to go ahead and put my version of it on the record, as well. Heres what Aj Solds Berger had to say. Throughout the conversation, i emphasized if President Trump, like previous president s, was upset with the coverage of his administration, he was, of course, free to tell the world. I made clear repeatedly that i was not asking him to soften his attacks on the times if he felt our coverage was unfair. I implored him to reconsider his attacks on journalism which i believe are dangerous and
harmful to our country. During the commercial break, we talked about this and you said no president has gotten an easy ride from the president. Do you think this situation is different versus when you were in the white house . It is different. I think its unprecedented, hallie. There have been president s that have taken on the press, even president obama from time to time, would challenge the press. But nothing like this. Nothing like this. Theres always a tug of war, i think, arm wrestling match, what have you. Whatever metaphor you want to use between the press and the Executive Branch and the president. But in this case and you saw it in the campaign. You covered the campaign. It started there, and it only intensified. Mack mclarty, pleasure to have you onset. Kimberly johnson, after the break, one of the gops biggest donors is criticizing the white house. Why charles cook says hes willing to work with democrats and why that matters for the mid terms more than you might think. This condition has not been reported with entyvio. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections or have flulike symptoms or sores. Liver problems can occur with entyvio. If your uc or crohns treatment isnt working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio. Entyvio. Relief and remission within reach. Dinner date. Meeting his parents dinner date. Why did i want a crest 3d white smile . So i used crest. Crest 3d white removes. 95 of Surface Stains in just 3 days. For a whiter smile. That will win them over. Crest. Healthy, beautiful smiles for life. Seemed to regret advancing the campaigns of some republicans in the past. And when asked how hed feel if democrats flipped the house he said i dont care what initials are in front of or after somebodys name, instead it will be candidates who back his values. Joining me is le ann caldwell. What was your biggest take away . This is a shift in at least their tone. Charles koch fwagave a rare on record interview and said he regrets backing some of the republicans who havent espoused the policies they promised the kochs they would. And theres its about tone and its about their policies. Theyre not happy with the tariffs. Theyre not happy with government spending. Theyre not happy with the family separation of the border, the lack of a daca deal. All these things have reallying
a gaited the koch network and the elected the top brass of this network. They say that this is a warning shot to republicans that you need to get on board or were not going to support you. So when these officials are describing these koch officials, the president and the administration is toxic as destructive, what was the reaction in the room . What was your take away about is this all about taking down the president . Was this about Something Else . Yeah. Its interesting. I think this is a warning shot to republicans and to the president to say look, these are not traditional republican and conservative ideology that we support. The reaction in the room, well see. Its mixed. Its tightly controlled. We were able to speak to some donors. Some of them were like we support the president s tactics. Others say they sport the koch network and think they know the best path forward and how to get the Policy Agenda they want. But today were supposed to hear
the plan for the midterms, and this is going to be their presentation on how theyre going to spend their tens of millions of dollars on the midterms. So well see if they put their money where their mouth is, and if theyre going to really spend any money to support democrats, or if theyre still going to defeat some of the democrats in the most the red states that are vulnerable. Thank you for joining us from out there in beautiful colorado springs. Im jealous. Have fun. Thank you. Well look for your report later. Well be back with sources say and the big picture. The line between work and life hasnt just blurred. Its gone. Thats why you need someone behind you. Not just a card. An entire support system. Whether visiting the Airport Lounge to catch up on whats really important. Or even using those hardearned points to squeeze in a Little Family time. No one has your back like american express. So no matter where youre going. Were right there with you. The powerful backing of american express. Dont do business without it. Dont live life without it. To me, hes, phil micwell, dad. O golfer. So when his joint pain from Psoriatic Arthritis got really bad, it scared me. And what could that pain mean . Joint pain could mean joint damage. Enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop irreversible joint damage, and helps skin get clearer. Enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, Nervous System and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. Tell your doctor if youve been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Since enbrel, dads back to being dad. Visit enbrel. Com and use the joint Damage Simulator to see how your joint damage could be progressing. Ask about enbrel. Enbrel. Fda approved for over 15 years. We are back with our panel. We want to get a sense as to what youre reporting and what your sources are telling you on any story. Pick your flavor. Jonathan . What im hearing from the Koch Brothers retreat was that john cornyn, the Senate Majority whip was talking about the decision to have the kavanaugh vote as early as possible. Donors were interested in why dont we delay this and see if we can have it out there and rally the base over the kavanaugh appointment. He said he was worried that democrats would feel liberated after the election. However, he sounded like he wanted to brick it up to election day. He said mcconnell has threatened to keep it up to election day. It prevents democrats from raising money and campaigning. Theyve cancelled the august
recess. You can see the Senate Leader strategy is to draw it out and get it done right before the election. Kimberly, sources say to you information about Brett Kavanaugh. Yes, theyre saying Brett Kavanaugh could be a problem for some republican candidates on the house side. The senate has nothing to do with the confirmation but leading up to the midterms, it keeps abortion at the fore front. In a lot of these crucial races theyre trying to get womens votes. Theyre afraid it will galvanize republican and independent women and democrats to go to the polls to vote democratic. In that way the kavanaugh nomination could hurt republicans in the midterms. Kimberly and jonathan, love you guys. Thank you for coming in. Todays big picture, for it, were heading to italy. The blood moon from this weekend. Look at this amazing photo. Thats it. Rising behind the coliseum in rome. Obviously the earth, sun and moon all line up. Thousands of people around the world caught a glimpse of that amazing moment which lasted one hour and 43 minutes. The longest Lunar Eclipse of the century. Wed love to hear your thoughts online. My time is up. Ill see you later today as we cover the News Conference with the italian Prime Minister. Did you do that because the italian Prime Minister is here . I realized it was kind of fitting. It was all a coincidence. Theres nowhere else id rather be, though. Theres nowhere Hallie Jackson would rather be than italy as opposed to ali and i. Theres nowhere we would rather be than msnbcs new york Head Quarters covering the news