President trump announcing that the secretary of state is in the air and on his way back from north korean with the three wonderful gentlemen. Kim dongchul has been held in the country while tony kim and haksong were both arrested last year. They were tweeting just in the last couple moments i had productive meetings with kim jongun and made progress. He says he is delighted to bring home these three americans. We want to go right now to nbc news correspondent live in beijing. Janice, this is a moment that many of the world had been waiting to see. Its now here. We know that overnight tonight around 2 00 a. M. President trump will greet those detainees on the tarmac of Andrews Air Force base here in d. C. Reporter this is seen as a necessary step before there was any announcement made about the date and location of the summit between kim jongun and president tres trump. The release of the last three americans came after secretary of state mike pompeo metaphor 90 minutes with kim jongun about those summit details. There had been a lot of anticipation about this growing over the past couple weeks and continue tense fied with reports about a week ago that the men had been moved from labor camps to a hotel in pyongyang. Now north korean officials have been very sensitive to posturing. Theyve been dissatisfied with the u. S. Spin on diplomacy these days suggesting the north koreans are somehow bowing to pressure of sanctions. They say that it is kim jongun himself who is driving this d detente. And consider the diplomacy that weve had. Kim has met twice with chinas president , there was the historic summit with south koreas moon jaein, and now the prospect of this summit with President Trump. But, the skeptics are being very cautious about this. They say that, yes, this was a tangible step, it was a necessary step, and it did remove an obstacle to those talks. But they say this was an easy concession and it may be the only concession the u. S. May win in any negotiations with north korea. Because now, frankly, the hard part begins. Hallie. Thats right. Live for us there in beijing. I wanted to get over to Kristen Welker who is on the white house north lawn for us. We have learned in just the last couple minutes new information from the pool reporters, quote unquote, that had traveled with secretary of state pompeo. You know in the plane overseas coms are limited but were finding out that pompeo has confirmed the date and time of these talks with kim jongun and donald trump. Now the conversation is what will the agenda of those talks be . Ease also saying that these men appear be in good health, they were able to walk on the plane on their own. Kristen. Reporter thats right. This is a significant moment for President Trump for the secretary of state. The fact that they appear to be in good health also hugely important for this administration, particularly after the death of Otto Warmbier when he was released from north korea. Were hearing from the familiar live tony kim, one of the detainees who says we are very grateful for the release of our husband and father tony kim and the other two american detainees. He want to thank all of those who have worked toward and contributed to his return home. We also want to thank the president for engaging directly with north korea, mostly we thank god for tonys safe return. He was arrested after he had been teaching at the university in pyongyang last year. And then hallie we are hearing from Sara HuckabeePresident Trump appreciates lead kim jonguns action to release these middle eastern citizens and views this as a positive guest tire of good will. The three americans appear to be be in Good Condition and were able to walk on the plane without assistance. All americans look forward to welcoming them home and seeing them reunited with their loved ones. Thats going to happen at 2 00 a. M. Tomorrow morning. A lot of focus on that. But the broader context here, hallie, the stakes couldnt be higher as President Trump prepares for what will be, if it does in fact take place, an historic summit with kim jongun. Of course the United States will be pressing for complete denuclearization of north korea. Will they agree to that . It comes on the heels of President Trump pulling out of the Iran Nuclear Deal just yesterday, of course. And the question becomes, what message does that send to north korea about the United States willingness to stick to its commitments . The Administration Pushes back against any criticism saying theyre going to get a stronger deal with north korea, one that will lead to a safer United States and korean peninsula. But still, hallie, the stakes couldnt be higher. We are told were going to learn some of those details surrounding the date and place a little bit later on today. President trump is going to have a Cabinet Meeting later this morning. Right. Reporter so hopefully well go to ask him some of those questions. Heres the thing, he may want to talk about it at that cabinet meet. Reporter oh, yes. This is something he feels good about. That will happen in about 90 minutes or so over where you are at the white house. Thank you. The tick tock of how this went down is fascinating. Secretary of state pompeo saying that he was on the groud for basically 13 hours. He had this 90minute conversation with kim jongun between mike pompeo, kim jongun, the two of them talking, returned back to where he was staying when a north korean emissary came over and said, yes, we will be releasing these detainees. According to a senior u. S. Whorvel was present for the exchange purt looking at har live pictures from the air force day in japan. You can see what we believe to be the plane that mike pompeo traveled back from pyongyang on with those detainees. That emissary from north korea came in and basically said make sure these detainees take care that these detainees dont do this again. This what this person called a hard decision for the north koreans. Theres a lot of intrigue here and theres a lot of diplomatic fallout that could happen. I want to bring in the chief Deputy Director of the cia. Bruce, we talked about the significance of this, but walk through where you see this going. What kind of an impact this might have on those talks. We believe to be happening, maybe next month, between donald trump and kim jongun. Well, of course its very welcomed news that the american detainees have been released. Were always concerned when any americans are held overseas, particularly north korea, given the treatment or the mistreatment of Otto Warmbier as well as some other americans before him. So certainly the doctors are going to be examining him and interviews as to how they were treated. If they had been mistreated, that could cast appalling over the summit with President Trump. But so far it seems that they perhaps may have been treated well. So kim jongun would have known it would have been a huge impediment had they not been released to the summit either preventing the summit or casting a dark shadow over the summit. It removes an impediment. Its a positive initiative. Bruce, i want to bring in now bill neely as we look on the other side of our screen at the airbase in japan where we believe the plane carrying those detainees has landed at least momentarily. Bill neely is live for us in the region. And, bill, talk us through some of the international youre in london actually but talk us through some of the International Fallout for example the south koreans talking about this, celebrating the release of these detainees. Reporter yes, they say its good news as far as the summit is concerned, another confidencebuilding measure like weve seen really since kim jonguns new years speech. South korea is also calling for the release of six of its citizens who are being held in north korean jails. And, of course, japan zblrs bill, i know i just tossed to you and i apps i have to interrupt you because back at home gina haspel has begun her opening statements. We want to listen in to that. The kind words and spup it would like to take just a moment to recognize a few guests who have come today, including principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence sue gored donna, cia chief operating officer brian bulla taw, mrs. Susan pompeo, thank you for coming, the best ambassador i ever worked for, ambassador lewis susmann. And two dear members of mine, senior cia officers and later sc officials, Mary Margaret graham and charlie allen. Im here because i have been nominated to lead the extraordinary men and women at the Central Intelligence agency. Men and women who are our countrys silent warriors. These dedicated professionals spend much of their careers in difficult, far flung outposts of the globe striving to make our fellow americans more secure at home. It has been the privilege of my professional life to be one of those cia officers. Now i have been asked by President Trump to lead this workforce and to continue the work that mike pompeo and i began a little more than a year ago. Ensuring that cia is postured to meet the complex challenges our nation faces. Those challenges include a changing but still lethal threat from terrorist groups, a Nuclear Threat against the continental United States from a rogue state, destabilizing iranian adventurism, an aggressive and sometimes brutal russia. And the longterm implications of chinas ambitions on the global stage. While these challenges are daunting and offer few easy answers, i am confident the United States and the American People have the resolve to meet them head on. If i am confirmed as director, you have my solemn commitment that i will position this agency to provide the intelligence support our country needs to meet the challenges of today and those of tomorrow. I welcome the opportunity to introduce myself to the American People for the first time. It is a new experience for me as i spent over 30 years undercover and in the shadows. I dont have any social media accounts. But otherwise, i think you will find me to be a typical, middle class american, one with a strong sense of right and wrong and one who loves this country. I was born in kentucky and while my family has deep roots there, i was an air force brat. And we followed my father to postings all over the world. My childhood overseas instilled in me a deep love for Foreign Languages and cultures, but also a deep understanding of the vital role of American Leadership in combating aggression abroad. I joined cia in 1985 as a case officer in the Clandestine Service. I had a knack for the nuts and bolts of my provision from the first dave training. I acc seld in finding and acquiring secret information that i obtained in brush pass, dead drops, or in meetings in dusty allies of third world capitals. I recall very well my first meeting with a foreign agent. It was on a dark, moonless night with an agent i had never met before. When i picked him up, he passed me the intelligence and i passed him an extra 500 for the men he led. It was the beginning of an adventure i had only dreamed of. The men who ran cia in those days leaned forward in giving me the right opportunities to succeed or fail. When a very tough, old School Leader announced that i was his pick to be chief of station in a small but important frontier post, a few competitors complained to me directly. Why would they send you . I owe that leader much for believing in me at a time when few women were given these opportunities. While i could have done without some of the long nights sleeping on the floor of my station, i was proud of the work we did there. Including the successful capture of two major terrorists in the wake of the Africa Embassy bombings, a counterproliferation operation that went our way, and the dismantlement of a local terrorist cell. Altogether i have served seven tours in the field, four as chief of station, including hardship assignments in distant posts and more recently in the capital of a major u. S. Ally. By any standard, my life at the agency, and it has been my life, has exceeded all of my expectations from that january day when i first took the oath to today. There were few senior women leading at cia in those days. And we are stronger now as an organization because that picture is changing. I did my part quietly and through hard work to break down some of those barriers. And i was proud to be the first woman to serve as the number two in the Clandestine Service. Its not my way to trumpet the fact that im a woman up for the top job at cia, but i would be remiss on not remarking on it. Not least because of the outpouring of support from young women at cia and indeed across the ic, because they consider it a good sign for their own prospects. My experience and success as an Operations Officer led to three leadership positions in the Clandestine Service and one year ago i was asked to serve as Deputy Director of cia. The reaction of the workforce to a rare nomination of one of their own to be director, someone who has been in the trenches with them, has been overwhelming. I am humbled by their confidence that i can successful lead this agency and inspired to work harder than ever to maintain that trust. They know that i dont need time to learn the business of how cia works. I know cia like the back of my hand. I know them, i know the threats we face, and i know what we need to be successful in our mission. I have played a leading role this past year in setting us on the right path, and i intend on continuing on that path if i am confirmed as director. Our strategy starts with strengthening our core business, collecting intelligence that helps policymakers protect our country, and advance american interests across the globe. It includes raising our investment against the most difficult intelligence gaps, putting more officers in the foreign field where our adversaries are, and emphasizing Foreign Language excellence. And finally, it involves investing in our partnerships, both within the u. S. Government and around the globe. We must do everything we can to follow through on these investments and to make cia as effective as it can possibly be. Because the American People deserve no less than cias best effort. This especially true when it comes to confronting threats from north korea, iran, russia, and china. Today, cia officers are deployed across the globe. Sometimes at significant personal risk collecting critical human and technical intelligence. I have spent my entire career driving operations. And if confirmed, i will be able to leverage that experience beginning on day one. I knew that accepting the president s nomination would raise questions about cia classified activities in my career at the agency. I also understand that it is important for the American People to get to know me so they are able to judge my fitness for this position. So over the last few weeks we have leaned forward to make more information about my record public. We have also shared details on every aspect of my career through classified channels with this committee as well as with the rest of the senate. I think it is important to recall the context of those challenging times immediately following 9 11. For me, i had just returned to washington from an overseas posting. And i reported for duty on the morning of 9 11. I knew in my gut when i saw the video of the first plane hitting the tower in manhattan that it was bin laden. I got up and i walked over to the Counterterrorism Center as the cia compound was evacuated and i volunteered to help. I didnt leave for three years. We worked seven days a week and i even had friends who postponed weddings and having babies. The men and women of cia were driven and charged with preventing another attack. The first boots on the ground in afghanistan were my colleagues. The First Casualty in afghanistan was my cia officer and colleague. And it was cia who identified and captured the mastermind of 9 11 in a brilliant operation. I am proud of our work during that time, the hard lessons we learned from that experience informed my leadership of cia today. In light of my counterterrorism experience, i understand that what many people want to know about are my views on cias former detention and Interrogation Program. I have views on this issue and i want to be clear. Having served in that time, i can offer you my commitment clearly and without reservation that under ny leadership, on my watch, cia will not restart a detention and Interrogation Program. Cia has learned some tough lessons from that experience. We were asked to tackle a mission that fell outside our expertise. For me, there is no better example of implementing Lessons Learned than what the agency took away from that program. In retrospect, it is clear, as the sisi report concluded that cia was not prepared to conduct a detention and Interrogation Program. Today, the u. S. Government has a clear legal and policy framework that governs detentions and interrogations, specifically the law provides that no individual in u. S. Custody may be subjected to any interrogation, technique, or approach that is not authorized by and listed in the army field manual. I fully support the detainee treatment required by law and just as importantly i will keep cia focused on our collection and analysis missions that can best leverage the expertise we have at the agency. Like i said, we learned important lessons following 9 11. As both a career Intelligence Officer and as an american citizen, im a strong believer in the importance of oversight. Simply put, experience has taught us that cia cannot be effective without the peoples trust. And we cannot hope to earn that trust without the accountability that comes with congressional oversight. If we cannot share aspects of our secret work with the public, we should do so with their elected representatives. For cia, oversight is a vital link to the open society we defend. Its a defining feature of the u. S. Intelligence community and one of the many things that distinguishes us from the hostile services we face in the field. If confirmed as director, i will uphold the agencys obligations to congress and ensure that oversight works on behalf of the American People. Mr. Chairman, i want to thank yound and the committee for th hard work thats put in the oversight process and the vital support that this committee provides the officers at cia. Cia has given me a lot over the past three decades. A calling in service to my country, some real life adventures, and the profound satisfaction of serving with some of the most talented and honorable men and women in our government. If confirmed, i hope to repay the debt i owe to this Remarkable Agency by drawing on my experience. I know what my fellow officers need from me and i know what our nation needs from cia, and that is truth, integrity, and courage. Again, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to appear before you today and i look forward to your questions. Ms. Haspel, thank you for that testimony. Let me inform members that we will have a fiveminute round of questions. Well recognize members based upon seniority. I would ask all members to adhere to the fiveminute time frame. And i would remind members that we are in an open session, therefore, classified questions and or answers would not be appropriate for this period. When weve completed the open session, we will immediately move to a closed session where every question will be answered i am certain. The chair recognizes himself for up to five minutes. Ms. Haspel, lets just dig right into it. Theres been much debate and much News Coverage about Jose Rodriguez, the former director of the national Clandestine Service and his decision to direct the destruction of the e detainee video tapes. You can describe your role in those events . Yes, i can. In 2005, i believe it was fall of 2005, i was chief of staff to the Deputy Director for operations that is head of the Clandestine Service. The tape issue had lingered at cia for a period of about three years. I believe the tapes were made in 2002 and over time there was a great deal of concern about the Security Risk posed to cia officers who were depicted on the tapes. Those Security Issues centered on the threat from al qaeda should those tapes be irresponsibly leaked. Mr. Rodriguez, who was the ddo at the time, the Deputy Director for operations, has been very up front and has made it clear on a number of occasions publicly that he and he alone made the decision to destroy the tapes. I would also make it clear that i did not appear on the tapes as has been mischaracterized in the press. However, as chief of staff and i believe like everyone at the agency at that time, we were extremely concerned about the Security Risk that was posed to our officers. We were aiming to do two things. To adhere to u. S. Law but at the same time reach a resolution that would protect our officers. There were numerous legal consultations over a period of years at the agency. Our lawyers were very consistent in saying to us that there was no legal requirement to retaining the tapes, no legal way to dispose of the tapes. Im not a lawyer by i believe the basis for that judgment was the fact that there was a complete and written detailed record of the interrogations. And at cia, the official record is the cable record. We use that for all of our operations. There were two reviews done of the tapes to compare them to the written record. One of those was undertaken by the office of general counsel. The second was undertaken by the office of the inspector general. In both cases, they found that the written record was detailed, accurate, and complete. So the consistent legal advice, it never changed was that there was no legal requirement to retain the tapes. But there were some policy objections to disposing of the tapes. So our job in the office of the Deputy Director for operations was to arrange consultations with Senior Leaders at the agency. At the time the tapes were destroyed, mr. Rodriguez asked me to prepare a cable because he was going to have another conversation with then director of the agency to talk about this issue again. I did so. A couple of days later, he released the order, he believed, on his own authority. He took the decision himself and he said it was based on his own authority. I asked him if he had had the consultation with the director at the time as planned, and he said he decided to take the decision on his own authority. There were three investigations, three looks at the tapes, inquiries that i know about. One was undertaken by the House Oversight committee. I never saw a report on that but the chairman at the time said that he found no fault with my actions. There was a department of justice investigation that was closed without charges after i think more than two years. And then there was an internal investigation of the issue conducted by one of my predecessors, mr. Morel, who found no fault with my actions and that my decisions were consistent with my obligations as an agency officer. It up for that answer. Recognizing my five minutes is now up, i recognize vice chairman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im going to followup on the question around the tapes, ms. Haspel. November 4th of 2005 then senator levin introduced legislation to create a Commission Model on the 9 11 commission to look into the agencys treatment of detainees. Three days later you drafted the cable, four days later the tapes were destroyed. Were you aware of senator levins actions and the timing seems very close to acting on behalf of potential congressional action . And in mr. Morels statements there were comments that your superior mr. Rodriguez was aware that two white house counsels, the counsel of the Vice President , the dni and the dcia and the hipsi had all expressed reservation of the destruction of the tapes. Were you aware of those facts that mr. Rodriguez was at least aware of and were you aware of the actions of senator levin when you drafted your memo and then had the tapes subsequently destroyed . Senator warner, what i recall were the Security Issues surrounding the tapes. I dont recall pending legislation. I just dont recall that. What about the issue of all of the counsels, the counsel of the Vice President , dnirhipsi ranking member, the fact there was senator, i dont know if i was aware of all of those, but i knew there was disagreement about the issue of the tapes outside the agency and that is why we were working toward a meeting with the then director to talk about those issues and how we address those attorneys of people outside the agency. So i was working toward resolution within a process. But with that overhang, i know other members will raise this, the timing seems i hope i can get more clarity on the timing. I wanted to make sure i take my time, though. And i heard your statement about the fact that if youre confirmed there will never be an Interrogation Program under your leadership and you addressed the issue of the fact that it is against the law. The question i have with the benefit of hindsight, do you believe the program in terms of the Interrogation Program was consistent with American Values . Senator, as we sit here today, and with some distance between us and the events of 9 11, the congress and indeed our nation have had an opportunity to have a debate about the interrogation standards we want to use as the United States of america. We have decided to hold ourselves to a stricter moral standard. For dod thats defined in the army field manual. I support the United States holding itself to that stricter moral standard and i support the army field manual. But, ms. Haspel, that is answering on a legalistic were asking you to take on a position, i understand rdi you were downstream, not part of the policy making. But if youre entrusted with this responsibility, we need i need to get at least a sense of what your moral code says about those kind of actions. Because there is the potential that this president could ask you to do something he obviously believes in these procedures but even if he asks you to do something that is not directly related to detention and interrogation, but if he asks you to do something that you believe is morally questionable, even if there is a well, see, opinion that gives you a get out of jail free card, what will you do in that action when you are the director of the cia . Senator, my fathers watching today. He served 33 years in the air force. My parents gave me a very strong moral compass. I support the higher moral standard that this country has decided to hold itself to. I would never ever take cia back to an Interrogation Program. First of all, cia follows the law. We followed the law then. We follow the law today. I support the law. I wouldnt support a change in the law. But ill tell you this. I would not put cia officers at risk by asking them to undertake risky controversial activity again. Ms. Haspel, my question is this. On a Going Forward basis, if this president asked you to do something that you find morally objectionable, even if there is an olc opinion, what will you do . Will you carry that out, that order, or not . I mean, were entrusting you in a very different position if youre confirmed. I just need to know what your response to that would be . Senator, my moral compass is strong. I would not allow cia to undertake activity that i thought was immoral, even if it was technically legal. I would absolutely not permit it. So you would not follow the order if you felt it was no. I believe that cia must undertake activities that are consistent with American Values. America is looked at all over the world as an example to everyone else in the world. And we have to uplohold that an cia is included in that. Senator rich. Thank you very much. Ms. Haspel, thank you for undertaking this and thank you for your many years of service with the cia. For my colleagues im going to tell you at the outset im going to support this nomination. I dont take that lightly. Ive had the opportunity to review all the materials that have been provided, but more importantly than that, ive known ms. Haspel for the ten years ive been on this committee and had the opportunity to work with her over those years. And even visit you out in the field when you were at the garden spots that senator i remember. Right. In any event, i have, for my colleagues, i can report to you that during this time i have always found ms. Haspel to be open, to be forthcoming, and to be truthful. And that is incredibly important as we exercise the things that we have to do as far as authorizing, as far as financing, and as farr as oversight of what this really, really important work is that the cia does. So for that, ms. Haspel, you will be rewarded with my vote and i feel very comfortable about that and i sincerely appreciate your openness as weve met over the years and ive had the opportunity to ask you about the things that i needed to know as i discharge my obligations. Im also persuaded greatly by the former directors both republicans and democrats who are enthusiastically supporting your appointment to this. I think that is very important. Im also persuaded by something that i think other members of this committee have probably run across, and that is we all from this Committee Deal regularly with our partners in intel from foreign countries. As you know, thats critically important to the job of the cia and the other 16 intelligence agencies. Those relationships, those contacts, those dealings we have with those foreign agencies are very important. And i have to tell you that uniformly people who i have discussed your taking on this job have been very enthusiastic about it and they know you, they trust you, and the trust of this agency is so important when we deal with the five eyes or amongst the five eyes or with other intelligence partners. Thank you for that. Also, i deal with a lot of the employees at cia. They are incredibly enthusiastic about your appointment to this. So thank you for that. For the American People who are watching this, i can tell you that everybody sit thoting on t side of the table regularly hear things that cause us to not sleep very well at night. As the head of this agency, i can tell you i will sleep better at night knowing youre directing these efforts. So thank you for that. Thank you for undertaking what youre what you are undertaking. I know that you have thought about this carefully. If the press reports are right, youve been up and down a little bit on this, but the American People will be very grateful for your service. Let me let me ask a question as we close here. You know, over the ten years i came here just as the investigation on the interrogation thing was starting and i participated and other members of the committee here participated in that. And theres with a real tension between not just the cia but the other intelligence agencies because of the way the oversight was being done by this committee. My impression is, and its a clear impression, that the relationship between the agency, cia, and the other intelligence agencies has evolved to a very different place than where it was when i first got here. Could you talk about that a little bit, please . Thank you for that question, senator. I think its a very important question. When mike pompeo and i took the reins at langley about 15 months ago, we decided to concentrate on four initiatives, and one of those is partnerships. And it involves two areas, first, our partnerships with our other ic partners in the u. S. Government. But even more broadly than that. There are many Important Partnerships for cia. And, as you say, those partnerships are critical because its a complex world. There is no more Important Partnership than the one between cia and dod. I have had the absolute honor and privilege to sit at the table with secretary mattis and general dunford these last 15 months to work with the jsoc commander and the other combatant commanders. I dont think that very important relationship has ever been in a better place. Likewise, nsa is our sister agency, were very close. And of course our relationship with the federal bureau of investigation is critical to the National Security of this country. But you mentioned Something Else thats important, and its a bit of an unheralded story. But the Intelligence Services of our closest allies do Amazing Things for the National Security of this sunt u countcountry eac day. I cant talk very much about it in this open session, but they do incredible things that advance our National Security on the terrorism and proliferation fronts in particular. And we owe a great deal of gratitude to those allies. Thank you for that. Snas time has expired. Senator feinstein. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Good morning, ms. Haspel. Good morning, senator feinstein. While many nominees have classified backgrounds, you are very unique. You have 30 years of undercover experience. Accordingly, we ask the agency that your records be declassified, i think i signed three letters in that regard, to make an informed decision. And because the public should beware of the background of its leaders. And they selectively declassified only small pieces of information to bolster your nomination while keeping damaging information under wraps. Given the cias refusal to make your record public, im very limited in what i can say and i think, as you know, i like you personally very much. This isnt probably the most difficult hearing in my more than two decades i have ever sat in. But let me begin. In his memoir, former cia counsel general john rizzo described how in 2005 Jose Rodriguez was promolted to be deputy cia director for operations and installed as his chief of staff an officer from the Counterterrorist Center who had previously run the Interrogation Program. Is that you . Senator, im so pleased you asked me that question. Yes or no will do. No. And for the record, if you if you have your staff check, mr. Rizzo has issued a correction. It is it is true that it is hard for excuse me, my understanding that is not accurate. Is that he was recently confirmed it was you. No, he issued a correction. When people write books, i didnt read mr. Rizzos books so i didnt even know that was out there. Mr. Rizzo and actually i read about it in the Washington Post last night. Eric wemple wrote a story talking about the failure of certain organizations to correct their facts. And that was one of them. And he noted that mr. Rizzo about ten days ago he was wrong, he didnt in fact check, and that has been corrected. I would never even served in that department nor was i the head of it. Let me read directly his quote from the book. Several weeks later party promoted Jose Rodriguez to the position of Deputy Director for operations. Jim pavis former job. Once more, jose installed as his chief of staff an officer from the Counterterrorist Center who had previously run the Interrogation Program. Between them, they were the stanchest advocates inside the building for destroying the tapes. Senator, i did not run the interrogation department. In fact, i was not even read into the Interrogation Program until it had been up and running for a year. I never served were you an advocate for destroying the tapes . Senator, i absolutely was an advocate. If we could, within and conforming to u. S. Law and if we could get policy concurrence to eliminate the Security Risk posed to our officers by those tapes. And the consistent legal and you were aware of what those tapes contained . No, i never watched the tapes but i understood that our officers faces were on them and that was very dangerous at a time when there were unauthorized disclosures that were exposing the program. But it also exposed how the program was conducted because they were tapes of the actual interrogation of certain of 92 detainees, as i understand it. The tapes were only recordings of one detainee. It was 92 tapes of one detainee. Well thank you for that. Let me in november and december of 2002 did you oversee the enhanced interrogation of althat sheary, which included the use of the waterboard as publicly recorded . Yes or no. Senator, anything about my classified assignment history throughout my 33 years we can talk about in this afternoons classified session. There are guidelines on, as you know, existing classification guidelines. And i should go back to your first point which is very, very important about why we havent declassified more about my history. There are existing classification guidelines that apply to operational activity of any officer. It has been suggested to me by my team that if we tried to declassify some of my operational history, it would help my nomination. I said that we could not that. It is very important that the director of the Central Intelligence agency adhere to the same classification guidelines that all employees must adhere to because they are very good reason for those classification guidelines. Exposing operational information can be damaging to sources and methods, as you know. But there is also a physical risk to officers who go out to the far ends of the globe and conduct Dangerous Missions. And they believe that their participation in those Dangerous Missions will be protected. It would be a Security Risk if we started declassifying associations between cia officers and particular terrorist or terrorist operations. So i am adhering to the existing guidelines and i believe that it is important and that i could not stand before the cia if i sought for shortterm gain to declassify my operational history. Thank you. Senators time has expired. Senator rubio. Thank you. Ms. Haspel when i joined this committee general years ago i knew as much about the cia as the average american. Obviously i know a lot more these days and much of it cant be shared. But theres two things that i can. The first is that its very easy to sit back and criticize the work of the agency with the benefit of hindsight. And the second is that the agencys made up of some of the smartest, most talented professionals that i have ever encountered in any field in my time in Public Service or beyond. These are men and women that could be making a lot of money in the private sector but instead theyve chosen to serve our country, many in the shadows, many any risk of their own lives, all to keep us safe. By the way, they sacrificed this money, this time with their family, the normal life in many cases in defense the freedoms, including the freedoms of the protesters who often smear them in the act of this, too often slander them. Ms. Haspel, you embody everything that i respect and admire about the men and women of the Central Intelligence agency and i support you not just because of your qualification but because i want a young cia training or case officer,ed its operational officers, todays station chiefs, i want todays had all of these professionals to know that they too can one day be sitting where you are sitting today and have the opportunity to lead this agency. And i would ask if someone like you, with your history, your record to service and sacrifice, if someone cannot be affirmed to head this agency then who can . And if someone like you is smeared in this process, what message are we send together young men and women who today are serving our country in the same roles in which you have served our country over the last 30 years . And i thought it was important for that to be part of the record today because as much as anything else, this hearing is not just about your nomination, for me. Its also about the men and men who everyboserve us, which i sa the outset you embody the best of the men and women in the intelligence agency. On a policy front i want to ask you about u. S. china relations. For decades American Foreign policy towards china has been rooted in the belief that as they prospered economically they would embrace dros, they would embrace the global rule of law. That consensus by all accounts has been catastrophically wrong. Today china is undertaking a comprehensive effort to sue plant the soouts United States and to undermine us and they have benefited from the greatest transfers of wealth in history through the theft and forced transfer of intellectual property, they use unfair trade and other practices to undermine our industrial and technical base. They gather and exploit data at an unrifled scale. Theyre building the most capable and well funded military in the world second to ours. So my question first and foremost is, is the agency, as it stands today, equipped and structured to meet this multifaceted challenge . Senator, thank you for that question. One of the first things mike pompeo and i looked at when i returned to the agency from overseas in early 2017 is how were doing on the hard targets, thats what youre about. China, iran, russia, north korea. Our investment in counterterrorism there are many have teejic threats and you talked about one of them. China. Chinas rise as a global power. Cia has a very Important Role in monitoring chinas rise as a global power. China ease efforts to diminish u. S. Influence not only in the pacific but all around the world. Chinas unfair trade practices and chinas overt and illicit efforts to steal u. S. Technology and knowhow and intellectual property. We with the support of this committee are raising our investment on each of the hard targets. We have incredible expertise on china at the agency. It is a very strong team. Im very proud of our analysts. It is a subject that a week doesnt go by that either the president asks for an expert briefing or secretary mattis asks for someone to come over and brief him on china issues. We have a good program, but your more general point is we have to do more and we have to invest more on each of these hard targets. I recently introduced legislation that would block the u. S. From buying or leasing telecom equipment. I would ask you with the citizens watching, if you were an everyday american or someone involved in sensitive work, were you connect your phone or computer to a zte network . Well, senator, as i mentioned, i dont even have a social media account. But i wouldnt use wallway products. Senator, time expired. Thank you. Thank you for your courtesy in meeting with me yesterday. However, i regret to have to say there is no greater indictment of this nomination process that be the fact that you are deciding what the country gets to know about you and what it doesnt. So far the American People have only been given information that is designed to help you get confirmed. Everything else has been classified. Ive got some questions. I think theyre fairly short. Some i hope we can do yes or no. You publicly released to a report which some have cited as reflecting favorably about your involvement in the destruction of interrogation tapes. Do you have any objection this morning to the public release of the durham investigation which would give the American People more information on the same topic and which does not come from the cia . Senator, just to be clear, the request for the declassification of the morel memo was in response to a member on this committee. I have not read the durham report, and i dont know the classification, so let me take that for the record, if i may. But do you have any objection . Well, i havent seen it, so i havent read it, so i dont know. Well, im going to ask you about this in the classified session, but i think in the name of fairness with respect to your role on these issues, this ought to be made public the way the morel report was. On sunday the Washington Post reported that unnamed officials were pushing back against accusations that you supported torture. In one of our biggest papers in the country. Between 2005 and 200 7, the program was winding down. The cia was capturing fewer deteenies and waterboarding was no longer approved. During that time, did you ever call for the program to be continued or expanded . Senator, i think like all of us who were in the Counterterrorism Center and working at cia in those years after 9 11, we all believed in our work. We were committed. We had been charged with making sure the country wasnt attacked again, and we had been informed that the techniques in cias program were legal and authorized by the highest Legal Authority in our country, and also the president. So i believe i and my colleagues in the Counterterrorism Center were working as hard as we could with the tools that we were given to make sure that we were successful in our mission. My time is short, and that respectfully is not responsive to the question. That was a period where the agency was capturing fewer detainees, waterboarding was no longer approved, and especially in light of that Washington Post story, i would really like to have on the record whether you ever called for the program to be continued which it sure sounds to me like your answer suggested. You said well, we were doing our job. It ought to be continued. That troubles me very much because you are the chief of staff to the Deputy Director for operations. Its a senior position. So im quite troubled by that senator, may i just say that i havent i dont know which Washington Post story youre referring to, but let me say this about myself. After 9 11 i didnt look to go sit on the swiss desk. I stepped up. I was not on the sidelines. I was on the front lines and in the cold war and on the front lines in alqaeda. Im proud of the fact we captured the perpetrator of 9 11. I think we did extraordinary work. To me the tragedy is that the controversy surrounding the Interrogation Program which as ive already gated to senator warner, i fully understand that, but it has cast a shadow over what has been a major contribution to protecting this country. I respect a number of those points. I just am trying to get answers here to questions that i think are particularly relevant. According to a press store today about the destruction of the interrogation videotapes, Jose Rodriguez told you in advance that he was going to take matters into his own hands. Did that conversation happen . Senator, no, it did not. Mr. Rodriguez indicated to me that he planned to discuss it with the then director goss. Let me sea if i can get one last in. When did you become aware that the cable authorizing the destruction of the interrogation videotapes had been sent . Senator, as chief of staff, its a desk bound job, so i was at my desk at least 12 hours every day, and i could see my computer screen. It was shortly after mr. Rodriguez who sat right across the hall from me had released the cable. Im over my time. Ill ask more about this in classified session. Thank you. Senator collins. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator jack reed and i cosponsored the Mccain Feinstein bill that banned waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques because we viewed hem as contrary to American Values and tantamount to torture. So let me ask you a series of questions. First, were you involved in any way in the creation of the enhanced Interrogation Program . Senator, i was not, and i was not read into the program until about a year into its existence. Were you a senior manager at the cia at the time that the program was created . No. I had just returned from an overseas posting. I was a gs 15. I was not yet a member of the Senior Executive service. I was assigned as a deputy group chief. Thats pretty far down the tote m poll in a program that had nothing pole that had nothing to do with the Interrogation Program. You said the program had already been in effect for some time before you were read into it. What was your reaction when you learned of the program . Senator, it was a new subject for me. We, as i said, we lacked interrogation expertise at the agency. We didnt have interrogators. I was told that interrogation experts had designed the program. That the highest Legal Authority in the United States had approved it, and that the president of the United States had approved it as well as the trusted leadership at the Central Intelligence agency. Have your views of the program evolved in the years following the attacks on our country on 9 11 . Senator, they have. I think its very important. I think for any leader as you go through a career, you have to learn the leadership lessons. Im not going to sit here with the benefit of hindsight and judge the very good people who made hard decisions who were running the agency and very extraordinary circumstances at the time. But as i mentioned to senator warner, this country has had the opportunity to reflect, because we have some space. Were not fearing another attack, and we have deliberated about the standard we want to use in interrogations. And that is the army field manual. The very important thing to know about cia is we follow the law. We followed the law then, and we follow the law now. But i would never permit cia to resume an Interrogation Program. So thats a very good segue into an important question. As a candidate, President Trump repeatedly expressed his support for waterboarding. In fact, he said we should go beyond waterboarding. So if the cia has a high value terrorism suspect in its custody, and the president gave you a direct order to waterboard that suspect, what would you do