The white house. The shakeup at the v. A. , one cabinet secretary out, the president s personal physician on his way in. The departure of shulkin is not a shock. I think everybody surprised by the president s choice of who to replace him with. What do you know about whats going on behind you there . Reporter weve been hearing about the pending departure for weeks now. He becomes the eight major white house or cabinet official to leave the white house this month and were learning more, steve, about how dr. Shulkin was told he was departing much the same pattern that we saw with secretary tillerson, where two white house officials tell nbc news that it was chiefofstaff john kelly who reached out to shulkin sometime yesterday afternoon before the president dropped the hammer, if you will, with his tweet around 5 30 announcing not so much departure but his upcoming replacement, his personal doctor, the white house physician who has been here for the last two administrations, someone whos widely respected here but doesnt have a lot of Management Experience. Now, dr. Jackson, Ronny Jackson will become the next cabinet official to have to get confirmed. Were looking at three separate sets of confirmation hearings in april when the senate gets back. Shulkin got confirmed 1000. This will not be as easy for his replacement but the Veterans Affairs committee has a lot of democrats on it who are up for reelection including john tester whos the Ranking Member of that. This is not somebody who wants to pick a fight with President Trump a few months before he has to get reelected in a state that trump won. The confirmationle wont be nearly as ugly but its just one more thing the senate will have to balance as the resolving door here continues to turn. In terms of what the president sees in Ronny Jackson, what drew him to him, a lot of people have been noting that press conference that dr. Jackson gave a few months ago where he offered a very robust endorsement of the president s physical and mental health. Do you have any insight into what it was that drew the president to him for this post . Reporter we havent heard a lot from Senior Administration officials and we heard nothing from the president except for those tweets. We havent seen the president in public over the last five days now, but you see this ongoing pattern here of the president liking people who he has personally close to who defend him public little as dr. Jackson did in that now Infamous Press conference and people who he thinks present well on tv, someone out of central casting. This is a admiral in the United States navy. He checks all those boxes for the president and we heard from some white house officials who are on other Television Networks saying this morning that he doesnt have a traditional management background but the last couple of v. A. Secretaries did and they were not able to turn around the ship of the second largest federal bureaucracy. So maybe it is time for Something Different but thats one of many questions we will have for the president when we see him leaving the white house in the next hour. The first time weve had a chance to be anywhere near him all week. All right. Thank you for that. With us now from d. C. We have leo shane congressional reporter for the military times. Josh barrel along with matt welch, let me start with you, leo. You cover this sector of government for a living. Youve got a man here dr. Ronny jackson who doesnt have a direct background here. He is a military veteran, though as you just heard. Rear admiral in the navy. Do you sense that hes qualified . Do you sense that hes confirmable . Do you sense that hed be competent to lead the department . Those are all the questions were facing now. Hes not someone whos used v. A. Services or has experienced this. We just dont know. This is someone who when lawmakers found out the name last night said theyre looking forward to meeting him which is surprising. Usually with the v. A. Secretary, hes even folks who are coming from outside of washington, theres some familiarity with their background or with some of their policies, in this case hes a well respected military physician but i dont know that anyone really saw him as a credible candidate to take over this job, so the veterans groups are somewhat concerned. They want to know a lot more about him and where he stands on these Reform Efforts before theyre willing to sign off and say hes a good replacement. The v. A. Has been in the news before going back years now. All sorts of controversy there about mismanagement, about whether veterans are getting proper care. There have been pledges from the past two administrations at least now to clean things up there. In terms of the tate of the vaechl that dr. Jackson would be walking in to, what is that . How would you assess it right now . Thats one of the ironies here is just back in january, President Trump was standing next to secretary shulkin saying that weve had a year of the best reforms weve ever seen and secretary shulkin was responsible for a lot of that. Quite a few major legislative proposals that were past last year, big accountable bill, appeals reform. Theyve been working on health care overhaul. Everything coming out of the white house up until last month was the v. A. Was on the right track. They had finally turned that corner. This was a reformed agency and now the message is, you know, back to chaos, back to another v. A. Secretary resigning in scandal and uncertainty about leadership. Let me bring the panel in here. Im cure cruc, josh, what you make of this. It did look like shulkin was on his way out. There was a scathing report with him and financial activities there but the replacement is a surprise. Shulkin went out in scandal but it wasnt a scandal directly related to the operation of the v. A. Billing for travel. He was bringing his wife along and taking tickets to wimbledon and it was an optical problem with the administration. The thing about dr. Jackson he manages about two dozen people in his role at the white house. Nearly 400,000 people work for the veterans administration. Its an enormous Hospital Management job and the Hospital System that has been troubled in various ways and so while hes a respected physician, he has really no relevant Management Experience for this job and that has to make republican senators nervous. Theyre being asked to vote for this guy and in the very likely event that there are future problems at the v. A. , future complaints, then they will be blamed for having put this inexperienced person in charge of the Organization Even if the problems arent his fault. So shulkin, up until this wimbledon issue was wellliked by both republicans and democrats. Was viewed as someone making positive changes so it would have to worry people that youre putting someone untested in the relevant skills here. No ones contesting his skills as a doctor but this isnt a doctoring job. And shulkin was the one holdover from the obama cabinet who stuck around for the trump cabinet. This is as we were hearing from garret there in his report, these things sound familiar when it comes to trump and his decision making. You have jackson who made a press conference. Trump was impressed with his performance. Putting somebody in a position like josh is describing who doesnt have the traditional qualifications. We have seen this before with trump. And the relevant cop here might be mike pompeo at state and john bolton replacing h. R. Mcmaster in that both of those picks remove some of the friction to Donald Trumps policy, particularly towards the Iran Nuclear Deal which hes always campaigned against, he doesnt like and mcmaster was min saying and tillerson was saying you should stay in this or provide some friction. This is true of the v. A. This is big bureaucratic struggle that the v. A. Switch exemplifies here. Shulkin is sour, theres backbiters within the v. A. Who went after him because he was not a fan in his words of privatizing health care, letting some of the money that goes into peoples insurances have them choose their own doctor. He was against this. Trump was for it. We assume that Ronny Jackson is for this as well. It removes one of the policy obstacles that trump would have to reforms he wants to see faster. Whether that can happen because a lot of thats going to require congressional approval and a lot of pushback against this is another story. Leo, if Ronny Jackson does end up being the next v. A. Secretary, if he is confirmed, youre an expert on that part of the government, whats the most important thing for him to know about what hed be walking in to . The biggest fight is going to be over as we just said, that privatization, that health care issue. He needs to know where the Senate Stands and just how far the president s willing to go on some of these Massive Health care reforms. This has been a quiet internally battle in the Veterans Community but its about to get elevated to National News because of shulkins dismissal and this new confirmation process. If hes not familiar with the fight over how much care should go outside the v. A. And how much money goes inside of v. A. For care and this private sector battle, hes got to catch up on that real quick because this is the hot button issue of his tenure. Meanwhile, new questions this morning about potential pardons for two Trump Associates already indicted by the special counsel. What the white house is saying about those reports and why it matters for the russia investigation . 12outof10, would recommend thing. Because if you only want the best thing, you get the 1 thing. Directv is rated 1 in Customer Satisfaction over cable. Switch now and get a 200 reward card. More for your thing. Thats our thing. Call 1. 800. Directv but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. What did the president know and when . That is the key question being asked this morning following reports of potential president ial pardons being discussed for two former members of the president s inner circle. The the New York Times and the Washington Post both report that one of the president s former lawyers, john dowd, floated the idea of pardoning former Campaign ChairmanPaul Manafort and former National Security adviser Michael Flynn last summer. Both have subsequently been ziekted by special counsel bob mueller. Flynn has pled guilty to lying to the fbi and manafort has pled not guilty to Money Laundering and other charges. I have only been asked about pardons from the press and have routinely responded on the record that no discussions or under consideration at the white house. This is how Sarah Huckabee sanders responded when asked if the president was ever involved in these discussions. Did the president direct john dowd. Im not aware of any conversations at all. Did. President have a reaction to these revelations in the the New York Times . Again did you does him specifically . I did not talk to him about it specifically p but again ive been in a number of conversations its never come up. Joining us here on set is former associate counsel to george w. Bush and professor at the law school at george mason university, matt back with me as well. Jameel let me start with you. A lot of people see these reports yesterday, the idea you got flynn and manafort and last summer and potentially the president s lawyer floating the hey, you know, maybe a pardon could be a possibility here, lying to them, a lot of people see that, read that and say that could be obstruction . What do you think of that . Theres a big debate today amongst legal scholars whether you could ever bring obstruction charges against the president. This is a constitutional power the president. Its hard to suggest that the president thinking about a pardon or even if his lawyers talk bay pardon might institute obstruction. The atmosphere is terrible. Is there a distinction here between legally bringing a case against the president for obstruction and say, congress saying this is what we consider obstruction as a more political charge . Certainly. If were talking impeachment proceedings, the charges that would be high crimes of misdemeanors but that doesnt mean it has to be a chargeable crime. Its whatever the political system determines meets that standard. It goes through the house and over to the senate. Were a long way from that but that is the discussion going on. The atmospherics of these conversations happening do not look good for the president or his lawyer. They have denied it. Weve got the denials out there. Weve got the reports out there. I wonder too, the fact that this is past tense at least as this has been reported, that this happened last summer and we know subsequently whats happened to flynn and manafort there havent been any pardons, does that change anything at all . It could be. Clearly the president might have been considering what to do about the situation with flynn and manafort. Now youre the point where theyve told the prosecutors what theyre going to tell them. Manafort isnt. Flynn is. Manafort well see what happens when he goes to trial. Flynn is cooperating. To the extent that the president was going to pardon him in an effort to avoid that conversation, that time has come and gone. Ive been trying to figure out how to think about this too. That power to pardon is pretty absolute for a president. We even had trump out there at least one point over time to talk about pardons hasnt come yet. Its almost like he floated it himself in public already. Its interesting that if this float was made that it didnt work and flynn is cooperating now. Donald trump is built a reputation for himself over decades as a person that promises to do things and then doesnt do them. If i were Michael Flynn i would not be assured of a floated idea from john dowd of maybe hell pardon you. Theres a reason the president should be hesitant is that they lose their ability to take the fifth amendment against their right against selfincrimination when theyre questioned with their interactions if theyve been pardoned. If they can no longer be prosecuted. They have to testify under oath. They could lie on behalf of the president. Maybe if theres nothing to hide, but if you give the pardon, its probably because theres something to hide. The president would have to be trusting them to then go ahead and protect him in further criminal proceedings where they would have less rights of their own to stay quiet. Its possible thats a reason that these pardons havent been issued. Theres a question i have about this, why are we reading this story . The stories are pinned on john dowd. John dowd had those conversations with these lawyers and the quote from john dowd who just quit recently, maybe theres an incentive there to paint his representation as being of a certain way, but john dowd says, you know, these discussions didnt happen as far as im aware. How do you not be aware of your own conversations is curious . I dont know what purpose its serving and thats curious. The other thing, going back to the political impeachment calculus here, obstruction. It feels obstructionee. Trey gowdy who announced his resignation, if you are innocent start acting like it. This is not the behavior of someone who is acting in an innocent way. Doesnt mean hes guilty but its not behavior with someone who has i was thinking yesterday back in the iran contra days, george h. W. Bush pardoned caster weinberg weinberger, brooks was trying to protect himself. Bush by then was an expresident. Speaking of the special counsel in this case p i want to ask you about this other report that were getting about the Court Filings where we have muellers team saying that rick gates who is Paul Manaforts associate during the campaign had contacts with someone considered to be a russian intelligence agent. The fact that this is now appearing in a court filing from muellers team, what do you make of that . Its a troubling sign for gates whos cooperating and manafort whos still yet to go to trial. He worked on a ukraine matter that manafort was the middle man. We believe is the guy that ran manaforts office. This is a person whos believed to be a former russian Intelligence Office in the gru. So if thats true, if you look at whats in that sensing memorandum its interesting that you have the lawyer talking to the officer talking to manafort and having conversations about this conversation and these conversations. Its very troubling because then that lawyer lie pedestrid about thats whats causing all the problems. Thats a real concern for the folks in the campaign. If they knew this person was a former Intelligence Officer and theyre involved, thats a problem. All these Court Filings you get from mueller are the clues we get into whats going on inside the investigation. Is there a message there from mueller . Can we decide anything from this . Hes building his case slowly but surely. What you see here is a continuing drumbeat of little bits of information where were seeing a buildup of pressure being brought on all the people involved to fess up what they know. Flynn still hasnt been charged. Theyre holding that indictment over him. If somebody knows something its probably mike flynn and hes probably singing like a canary. The politics of this, six months away from the midterm elections and no sign that this investigation is going to be wrapped up by then. This is something that headlines like this potentially playing out in the midterm campaign. Yes. Its remarkable when with major news happens in this investigation it doesnt seem to move the polls at all. The Health Care Bill and the tax bill and certain other matters that do seem to effect the polling, maybe this effects intensity. The sorts of democrats are very exercised about this or a ten on intensity. I dont know how much more you can do to make them likely to turn out. The investigation is of great importance substantively. Its of less political importance than you might expect. All right. Thanks for stopping by. Upahead, historic peace talks set for next month between north and south korea. The kim jongun making the trip south for the first time. What led to the plans for the meeting and how it could effect u. S. Efforts to create a zee nuclearized north korea . Going beyond expectations. Because our pets deserve it. Beyond. Natural pet food. He gets the best deal on the Perfect Hotel by using. Tripadvisor thats because tripadvisor lets you start your trip on the right foot. By comparing prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. Saving you up to 30 youll be bathing in savings tripadvisor. Check the latest reviews and lowest prices. Im trying to manage my a1c, then i learn type 2 diabetes puts me at greater risk for heart attack or stroke. 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A federal judge has ruled that a lawsuit accusing President Trump of violating the anticorruption sections of the constitution will be allowed to proceed. At issue here is something called the emol uments clause. Not allowed to except certain gifts and payments. Maryland and washington, d. C. Sued the president but argued his violating this clause by receiving foreign payments from the hotel. The numbers of americans filing for Unemployment Benefits fell to its lowest level in 45 years. Another good sign for the economy there. The job of claims total came in at 215,000, that is. 15,000 lower than expected. The labor market is expected to be at or near full employment. Moving overseas now for the first time in more than a decade. The leaders of north and south korea are set to hold a summit. Meeting is scheduled for april 27th. It will be held at the peace house on the south korean side of the dmz. Kim jongun will be the first leader of the hermit kingdom in the north since the korean war to set foot in south korea. The announcement comes during a ramp up of diplomatic efforts following the Winter Olympics earlier this week kim jongun met with chinese president , president xi, all of this paving the way for the planned discussions between kim and President Trump scheduled for may. Hans nichols is in seoul. We know weve got the trump meeting coming up. North and south getting together on south korean soil before that. How is that meeting the one coming up in the next month here going to effect the trump meeting . Reporter its an indication that kim jongun is serious about negotiations. When you think about what happened today, the announcement of a firm date really historic. April 27th, two sides meeting but leading up to that there will be technical meetings. A working Group Meeting on wednesday to show that this is no longer emotional. Theyre moving forward, momentum forward negotiations. The challenge for the u. S. Side as well as the south Korean Counterparts is how do you keep the space for diplomacy while continuing with these planned joint exercises, these military exercises that take place every spring. Ive checked in with u. S. Oechz. Exercises will continue but it is going to be difficult to make sure that its conveyed that these are defensive in nature these exercises because no one wants to have these war games cloud the potential positive development and the momentum on the diplomatic front. And yesterday, President Trump put a couple tweets out. We can show you one. He made reference yesterday to that meeting between the chinese president and kim jongun. It went very well that kim looks forward to his meeting with me. Unfortunately, maximum sanctions and pressure must be maintained at all cost. What hes alluding to at the end there the posture his administration has been taken toward north korea, the public posture that trump has taken over the last year which has caused quite a few headlines. How has that played into whats playing out now . Reporter well, we dont quite know. No ones inside kim jonguns head. Intelligence agencies are trying to assess just what motivated kim jongun to the negotiating table and there are two theories, number one, is the maximum Pressure Campaign and there is evidence at least anecdotal evidence that the chinese have been much firmer imposing those sanctions, checking all the cargo going in and out of north korea, making sure that the sanctions have a real bite and there are indications that there is Economic Hardship and that potentially has forced kim jongun to the negotiating table. The other theory is that kim jongun always wanted to use 2018 as the year to sue for peace, 2017 was the year for him to develop his missile technology. He had 16 tests. They did that nuclear test. 2017 was building things up and hed always plan on 2018 to go to the negotiating table. This is really the challenge and the urgent task for intelligence committees, intelligence agencies to try to figure out whats motivating kim jongun. Does he simply want the sanctions to be lifted or was this always the plan to get recognition for his Nuclear Ambitions . I think one thing is, just what kim jongun is offering on the table and if its this idea hes taking steps towards denuclearization, those steps towards are an important caveat, it suggests a phased in approach thats not something that the u. S. Wants to hear. They want complete and total immediate denuclearization from the norths side its more of a phase gradual approach and that could be a Sticking Point before negotiations even begin. Steve . All right. Hans, thanks for that. My panel are back with me. I want to play something that Sarah Huckabee sanders said at the White House Briefing yesterday on this subject, the pending meeting thats going to be taking place. Heres what she had to say. Take a listen. Were going to be cautiously optimistic but we feel like things are moving in the right direction and that the meeting yesterday was a good indication that the maximum Pressure Campaign has been working. So matt, that last part there, the maximum Pressure Campaign has been working. Their looking for credit here. The last year when trump made that comment about fire and fury the world has never seen before, all of the commotion, the white house is trying to draw a line between that and whats happening now. They have a theory of the case which is that and just acting like a crazy man incentivizes china to actually put pressure on north korea for the first time in a long time. The koreans to meet with each. We dont know if thats cause and effect. We do know were talking about a pretty historic moment of discussions at a time when the missile tests are stopping. It correlates with their theory being true and every Administration Since the dawn of time has taken credit for any positive thing going forward. I think for the people who have assumed that the Trump White House is just making it up as it goes along when it comes to north korea, i think theyre wrong. They had this theory and its still preliminary whether it will amount to anything. Youre not going to get rich by betting on denuclearization in north korea historical. Josh, stay with us. Much more ahead. Apple ceo turning up the heat on facebook blasting the social media giant for its big data scandal. What tim cook is saying about apples latest privacy effort and while google is the latest company to come under fire for how its tracking your information. Erious bacterial lung disease that in severe cases can lead to hospitalization. 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When you have something you love, you want to protect it. At legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. With an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. Legalzoom. Where life meets legal. Its a battle of the tech tightens in an exclusive sit down set to air next week. Apple ceo tim cook joined a massive pieflon criticizing facebook over its growing privates scandal. Business and Technology Jo ling kent is here and some strong words from apple ceo. Hey, steve. Thats right. Its rare to see these Silicon Valley ceos go after each other but thats what apple ceo tim cook did when asked about facebooks Ceo Mark Zuckerberg and of course these comments come as facebook announces now disabling Third Party Companies ability to access data and to target you like those shopping habits, your interests and hobbies. Theyre hoping to stop the ad targeting thats been so effective in the center of such controversy. Apple ceo tim cook taking aim at facebook Ceo Mark Zuckerberg. The social media giant under fire after a bombshell that Data Analytics firm allegedly harvested the personal information of 50 million unsuspecting facebook users in 2013 and 2014. Now, in an exclusive interview on msnbc, cook questioning the way facebook makes money. What would you do . What would i do . I wouldnt be in this situation. Reporter apple would never sell customer data. If our customer was our product, we could make a ton of money. Weve elected not to do that. We dont you are not our product. Reporter cook also says apple is now investigating its massive japapp store for potent problems. Were looking at each app. Is it doing what its saying its doing . Reporter meanwhile zuckerberg and his team behind the scenes Still Deciding whether hell answer questions from congress. What we try to do is send the person at facebook who will have the most knowledge, so if thats me, then i am happy to go. Reporter hes not accepted invitations from multiple congressional committees. Now facebook hit with five new lawsuits in federal court, at least three facebook users suing the company for tracking phone call and text message data on Android Devices through facebook messenger. Facebook saying users had to opt in to the feature. Channel 4 discovered a trove of data on thousands of facebook users in ceo still circulating. Its a manipulation of our society, by people who dont really care about our society. They care about their business. Reporter Cambridge Analytica denied its responsible while facebook once again says its very sorry. Apples cook says consumers should be aware of what Tech Companies value and what they dont. I think its an invasion of privacy. I think its privacy to us is a human right. Its a civil liberty, and in something that is unique to america. Reporter privacy concerns are going well beyond just facebook. Were also talking about google, this renewed or new sense of concern about how much data google is collecting about you. Weve heard from the people who use google that theyre concerned about their location data, their interest, their hobbies. All of these troves of data that these major Tech Companies have, google responding to that that users should always check their privacy settings and revisit them as they use their products, but this is expected to continue to be a major issue here at west and throughout the world. Thanks for that. A reminder too, you can catch the entire interview with apple ceo tim cook next friday april 6th, 8 00 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. Revolution, apple changing the world hosted by our own chris hayes. Josh barrel from Business Insider back with me. Josh, you heard in the clips we were playing, basically apple trying to claim the moral high ground here in this whole debate were having this social media and facebook. Can they do that credibly . In certain ways tim cook is saying there are the things longstanding about apples business model, first of all, apple and facebook are competitors in certain ways. Facebook owns whats app, People Choose am i going to message over whats app or the apple imessage application to talk with people and what hes describing there about the app store on the iphone. Apple has a lot more control over what can be done on its platform than google does with android. The argument hes making is our Walled Garden model where we exercise more supervision over the app developers, we tell them more about had a they can do that thats advantageous because it prevents people from taking advantage of you. Apple products are expensive in terms of their competitors. You are not our product. Thats because apples earning a larger profit on each device its selling so theyre able to rely more on that revenue stream. Im curious what you make of this because a lot of those concerns about privacy and am i sharing too much of my data and what are they going to do with it. Ive been hearing those for years when it comes to everything in the online world but it feels now like its suddenly those concerns are reaching some kind of Critical Mass here in a way that facebook didnt anticipate. What do you make of that . When playbook announces theyre getting off facebook, things are changing. It feels like theres a couple of things are dovetailing at the same time. That sense of weve given up too much on facebook. I think its also a colliding with antisocial media panic that were having. Youre seeing a lot of volunteering for selfcensorship. Its just expunging records of search. Working with governments now because right now 15, 20 years ago the joke was no Silicon Valley companies or no west Coast Companies had offices in washington, d. C. Thats a bygone era. Mark zuckerberg eventually is going to go to capitol hill. Hes eventually going to lobby for rules that lock in his market share and prevent his competitors from rising up. Im troubled by that. I think theres been bad legislation thats passed even recently in congress that its going to curtail free speech by sprengening the Communications Decency act. No one cares about it because the russia elections and theyre hacking everything. We have to be careful about leaping to every possible conclusion about the nefarious things happening on facebook even while the market is rightly punishing facebook right now. Theyve lost 20 of their market cap in a week. Huge amount because people are fed up with that kind of privacy harvesting. Somebody asked me the other day if i deleted my facebook profile yet . I havent checked it in two years. President trump is cheering on the revival of roseanne. He called the shows creator to congratulate her. 18 million views. Thats enormous for a Network Television show these days wiw around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Nobody glows. He gets it. Always the lowest price, guaranteed. Book now at choicehotels. Com whats up, deplorable . Most of all, lord, thank you for making America Great again. Thats roseanne barr, donald trump supporter on television and in real life and she got a phone call from the president congratulating her on this weeks wildly successful premier of the reboot of her show. It saw more than 18 Million People tune in according to prie conversation, but, you know, we talked about a lot of things. You know, hes just happy for me. Ive known him for many years. Hes done a lot of nice things for me over the years. It was just a friendly conversation about working and, you know, television and ratings. The political friction on the show between roseanne and her sister tapped into a debate still playing out among friends and family throughout the country. More than a year since President Trump took office. What may be remarkable is roseanne reboot deals with both sides of the trump divide, instead of playing to just one. Im joined now by tv critic for npr and Business Insiders josh, and eric is wimatt is with me,. Eric, where the traitinratings e strongest for roseanne, sit gn cincinnati, pittsburgh, trump markets. New york was number 20 something. L. A. Was im not sure it was in the top 30. This is inverting the model of how television, Network Television, is usually put together, it seems. In a way. I mean, i want to pull back a little bit and resist the urge to attach a political meaning to all of the ratings. I mean, theres a lot of Different Things that are coming together to make this show successful. Roseanne was a popular show when it was last on the air. At its height, it was the number one show on television. People were curious about the reboot and what it was going to be like. I also think that people in Middle America dont often see realistic portrayals of themselves in Network Television shows. Im not surprised that a bunch of people in the places you mentioned would show up to watch this show because roseanne, the series, always had a reputation for realistically and very sympathetically portraying people who are struggling and working class america in the midwest. To assume that all of those people showed up because they like trump, i think, is to make a loop that might be a little too far. I guess what id say is it puts too much on one side or the other. Couldnt you make a case theyre combined . Part of a realistic portrayal of Middle America, if you want to call it that, Middle America life these days, is your friends, neighbors, loved ones, a lot of them voted for trump. If you look at most mass culture products these days, whether it is late night television, whether it is all the award shows, whatever, you dont see many portrayals of that reality, of trump era Middle American life. You turned on this show, and you didnt get an info mmercial for trump, you have jackie, the sister, saying things, but you get both sides. Its what you dont see on television. I think some areas of Network Television have been unable to realistically show both sides. Roseanne, the series, has a history of doing this. When they talked about abortion, they talked about it in a wellrounded way, and showed different characters on different sides of the debate. The one thing that disappointed me about the show is that i dont think they delved deeply into the arguments, into the reasons, for why somebody like roseanne, who at one time was a staunch abortion rights advoca e advocate, stood up for gay rights on the show, was an antiracism advocate on the show, suddenly decided to vote for trump, who has a more troubling record on many of the issues. They didnt delve into it the way the show delved into issues of race when it was originally on the air or gay rights when it was originally on the air. That, to me, was a bit of a missed opportunity. But i do agree that people probably showed up to see the debate happen because theyre not seeing it in very many corners of the scripted Network Television. Yeah. Im curious, again, were one, technically two episodes boot reboot, so im curious if those things play a more prominent role going forward. Again, the other thing im struck by, when you look at the demographic profile of this fictitious world, you have this place of the country where, in the past, voters voted for democrats, barack obama, or hadnt voted, who dont fit the profile of socially conservative, religious republicans, who are more liberal moderate on cultural issues but voted for trump. Thats what strikes me when i look at the family in the world that roseanne created. It feels to me, when we look at the electoral map and talk about the counties that went, obama, obama, trump, that feels like that world to me. Certainly, again, that data is there. Those are also communities that have struggled with job loss. Theyve struggled with the changing economy. Theyve struggled with uncertain unn economic times. The roseanne reboot talks about all those things. A story line is coming up where a member of the family is going to be addicted to prescription medication, which is something a lot of families are going through. Her two daughters are under employed. Theres a lot of factors for why people may be interested in the discussion happening on this show. Eric, thanks for joining us. Josh and matt, thanks for being around for the hour and being part of the show. Well be right back with todays big picture. Risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. But no matter where i ride, i go for my best. So if theres Something Better than warfarin, ill go for that too. Eliquis. Eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis had both. Dont stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Im still going for my best. And for eliquis. Ask your doctor about eliquis. vo about what i eat. N selective this new beneful select 10, has 10 amazing ingredients avo with real beef, plus accents of Sunflower Oil and apples, suddenly your dogs a health nut. vo the old me woulda been all over that. avo new beneful select 10. 10 ingredients. 1 thoughtful recipe for todays big picture, picking up the mantle from my friend hallie jackson, who has been showcasing the best pictures by, for and about women for womens history month. This is Malala Yousafzai in the orange and yellow there. If you remember her, she was gravely shot and wounded by taliban militants in pakistan six years ago as a teenagers. Because of her campaign for improved education for girls the there. Today, she returned to her home country for the First Time Since the attack. Now as an International Advocate for women. A hero, really, and the worlds youngest nobel laureate. Malala burst into tears at the prime ministers office, saying, i cant believe it is actually happening. This photo comes to us courtesy of Pakistani State Ministry and getty images. What an image it is. Thanks for watching this hour of msnbc live with me. Now, more news with my colleague, chris jansing. You have to pause and realize in this moment, when we have seen the power of young people, how she set the standard for fighting for something to make things better. Extraordinary. One of my personal heros. Thank you, steve. Yup. Good morning. Im chris jansing. Stephanie ruhle and ali velshi are off. Its thursday, march 29th. Lets get started. The veteran Affairs Secretary shown the door, and he is tapping his own doctor to fill