It took place. Did you know at the time about that meet something. No, i didnt know anything about it. It must have been a very important meeting, because i never even heard that. No one told you a word, nothing . I know we talked about this on the plane a bit. No, nobody told me. Sounded like a very unimportant meeting. Deep cuts there from haberman and schmidt. Thats not what Michael Cohen claims, alleging that he and several others were present when thencandidate donald trump gave his nod of approval for the meeting to move forward. That contradicts repeated denials from donald trump jr. And others in Donald Trumps orbit. Did you tell your father anything about this . No. It was such a nothing, there was nothing to tell. I wouldnt have even remembered it until you start scouring through the stuff. The president said he became aware of it very recently, right before this came out, and thats when he was notified. Joining me now is jeff
bennett, msnbcs white house correspondent, natasha bertrand, and kevin is with us, as well. Help us sort through the confusion, Kevin Delaney is with us, as well, four in total. Let us sort through the confusion, not only whos on with me, but this story, as well. Part of a trio of tweets from President Trump, in which hes trying to answer the question before its even asked here about what he knew when, what he was told. Give us the latest, if you would, jeff. Hey there, david. Well, President Trump insists he did not have advanced knowledge of this Infamous Trump tower meeting in june 2016, and the reason why this is so important from the president s side is because as these investigations continue, the biggest problem it appears, the biggest present problem, is political. You have Michael Cohen, the president s longtime friend, attorney, socalled fixer, now saying, in effect, the president is a liar when he says there was
drafted on behalf of his son, which has come under heavy scrutiny by bob mueller, because he wants to know why were there so many coverups and changing stories if this was a nothing burger, if this was an innocuous meeting where nothing came out of it, just a meeting to potentially find out Opposition Research on Hillary Clinton, as they said that any candidate would have taken, then why all of the changing stories . And that, of course, is one of the biggest questions here. But i think that this is going to be a very important point in muellers investigation if cohen does decide to tell him that trump knew in advance, and not only knew, but approved the meeting, but you have to put it in context. The Trump Campaign had already been told by june that the russians have dirt on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails, so if youre assuming george papp dop los that was the case, then it makes you wonder did the president accept this meeting and give it
the go ahead because he was looking for those emails and was Everything Else after that kind of a result of this conspiracy that the Trump Campaign and trump himself was involved in . So this is a very big deal if Michael Cohen does come forward. Ken delaney, lets hone in on those two months then in the summer of 2016. Were looking at may, june, july, as well. So many pivotal things happened that summer. Youve been following the investigations, bob muellers doings, how much is this the focus now, this period of time, this meeting at trump tower . David, im a bit of an iconoclast on this. Im not convinced this meeting in and of itself is a meaningful episode of collusion, as people like to use the term, because ive interviewed some of the participants and talked to people before the grand jury on this and have come to believe Robert Mueller sees this in a different way. Hes more interested in this for the question of why the president was trying to cover it up apparently, why he issued that misleading statement, and
now, if in fact he knew about it, it puts that question into sharper focus and really puts the pressure on in terms of the Obstruction Of Justice case. If he, in fact, knew about it, hes been lying all this time while he knew that Robert Mueller was investigating the circumstances of this meeting, where donald trump would have been putting out a false story to the public and i think that adds up to a piece of the obstruction case, david. Kevin, i want you to comment on that. Strikes me weve been dealing with a lot of potentially unreliable narrators here. Of course, we can talk about the tapes in a second, but i want you to respond to what ken said about how pivotal you think the moment was. I agree with ken. Consistently the subjects of the meeting and the folks who have been in the meeting and the issue of collusion are almost two entirely different points. I think that the notion that Michael Cohen, who at one time was a close personal confidante of thencandidate donald trump and now, obviously, that
kevin, the worst ever, but there is this amazing photograph politico obtained. Bob mueller there on the left, hidden, right there to the right of the board, donald trump jr. , then the statement here, nbc news got the statement for the spokesperson for the special counsel. That is him, bob mueller, waiting to board a flight. If thats accurate thats donald trump jr. , they had no interaction there. Whats this photo say to you about bob muellers role or presence in washington today . He has sort of a sphinxlike feel. This is a rather astonishing photograph, natasha. Yeah, its absolutely incredible. Bob mueller kind of reading the newspaper, oblivious to whats going on around him, or maybe not, but donald trump jr. Doesnt seem fazed by it either. Just an evidence of how small d. C. Is, as well. Yes, at that terrible gate, as kevin said. My thanks to all of you. Kent, youre going to stay with me here. After nearly two years of
calling it a witch hunt and hoax, friday a meeting was held on election meddling. Afterward the white house said this, the president has made it clear that his administration will not tolerate foreign interference in our elections from any nation state or other malicious actors. You wrote a piece here highlighting the fact its been 19 months in a meeting like this, give us your sense of what caused it to happen and what might have happened during the meeting, what sort of unified perspective on Election Interference might have come out of that meeting. I think what caused it to happen, david, was the fallout from helsinki, where donald trump stood next to Vladimir Putin and appeared to call into question the whole notion russia interviewed in the election, and for all accounts this meeting lasted between a half hour and hour and no significant Policy Announcements or orders came out of it. It was more of a look back at review of what various agencies
interfering in our politics on social media. Look, the white house just simply has not made russia pay a price for this behavior and until that happens, they are going to continue to do it. What do they say about the fact there is no National Security adviser for National Security at the nsc . A lot hasnt been done here. How do they explain that . They dont explain it, david. They are not a talkative bunch, this white house, on substantiative policy issues. Theyve eliminated the cybersecurity coordinator, also fired tom bossert, the deputy National Security adviser for Homeland Security and are not replacing him in that capacity, so its not clear who is minding the store at the white house level. After 9 11 we reorganized the government, the United States did, to make sure that kind of Terror Attack could not happen again. We created the department of Homeland Security, laws were passed, funding was appropriated. Nothing like that has happened in the wake of this 2016 Russian Election interference, which
some people, including john mccain, have called an act of war. Not everyone agrees with that, but it was certainly a significant attack on our democracy that some would argue requires a significant response and we just havent seen it. Ken, lastly here, you were at the summit in colorado about a week ago with other National Security journalists, sort of a whos who of National Security personnel, as well, and from what i understand reading your piece, companies were there, as well, talking about this issue. What are they saying about the threats they are facing, about the threats the u. S. Faces broadly here when it comes to cyberattacks from overseas . Yeah, well private Cybersecurity Firms are watching on a daily basis nation state actors, you know, doing malicious things to our critical infrastructure, whether its iran, north korea, russia, china, you know, im not suggesting this is anything out of the ordinary. This has been going on for years, but they reiterated at this conference, as did u. S. Intelligence officials, that the United States is under daily cyberattack. Some of it is cyber espionage,
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was a Comfort Level that we hear on this tape, and most importantly, we hear references to cash, finance, check, and creating a company. All of those concepts to an fbi agent, to someone like mueller or the Southern District of new york, all smack of possible crime. Money laundering. Why are you creating a company . Why would you need to create a company . Have you done this before . The word cash, do you mean youre trying to avoid suspicious you are concerned about triggering suspicious Activity Reports of large sums of money transacting. When you say check, are you trying to avoid the Cash Transaction that would trigger a suspicious activity report . So those few seconds of audio actually have tremendous inherent meaning. Katie, i want to get your perspective on this, as well, just about what the future use of this tape might be. How do you translate something thats been played, heard, processed in the court of Public Opinion into a courtroom
potentially . Hows Something Like this cross that threshold into the court . From a legal perspective, we know trump and his team waived any type of claim of privilege, so that deals with any possible obstacle that mueller or anybody at the Southern District of new york might have in terms of the use of this information. As we know, attorneyclient privilege information, its the client that holds the privilege, the client that waves the privilege, so in that regard, it can fully be used to be able to be evidence against trump for possible Campaign Finance violations, and it could be used by cohen as proof that he has other potentially damning evidence in terms of more tapes. We know at least 100 recordings were made during the time this was seized and maybe theres other evidence, documentary evidence, thats already been seized in the possession of the government that cohen can loop together or link together to provide some value to not only the mueller investigation, but also to the Southern District of new york. Frank, i think youll agree,
its been a crazy week, saturday is a good day to take stock of that. There was this report about Michael Cohens willingness to testify, that donald trump knew about the meeting that took place in trump tower. I want to get your reaction to the reaction, what we saw from President Trump after that was reported first by cnn and other outlets, including nbc news. He tweeted this, i did not know of the meeting with my son, don jr. Sounds like someone is trying to make up stories to get himself out of an unrelated jam. Gee, i wonder if they helped him make the choice. I read that, i note lanny davis isnt mentioned by name, Michael Cohen isnt mentioned by name, as well. Your reaction to the reaction from the president . So, this fact that the president cant help himself but protest and tweet any time he believes hes being offended and infringed upon or challenge is
eventually going to be his downfall, because theres tapes out there and hes not certain about exactly what hes saying on the tapes. I keyed in this week on one particular phrase where the president said why was the tape cut off . I presumably was saying positive things after that. Presumably saying positive things. We dont know that. And, look, hes trying to have us believe he knew nothing about a meeting that was occurring in his own building while he was present in his own building, conducted by his chairman of his campaign who dismissed himself from a meeting in his office to attend the meeting. The meeting arranged by his son, attended by his Business Associate from russia. Were to believe that he knew nothing about it. Its strange. And every time he tries to challenge and push back on it, he puts himself into a box. Kate, what do you make of the president saying this, were familiar with his counsel, with Rudy Giuliani going on tv and doing the sort of twists and contortions along the lines of
what we saw from the president. What do you make of him taking up that mantle this week . Giuliani is always going to be the surrogate, legally and otherwise, in the court of Public Opinion. I doubt giuliani would ever represent the president in a court of law, but what giuliani is trying to do is discorrect Michael Cohen by saying, hey, even trump says no way this was an appropriate thing for trump to have been, you know, taped. And by the way, he says theres no way i knew about this meeting going on, but remember, david, there was such a hasty scramble to be able to cover up the main reason why trump jr. Met with the russians in june of 2016, and so i agree with frank, are you kidding me . Youre going to say that that kind of important meeting where even roger stone had previously been approached on dirt on Hillary Clinton, trump didnt know about the fact this meeting was going on, and we all know thats not true, so why is that important . Some of the best cases can be built on circumstantial evidence. You dont always have a smoking
gun and you can build it on the fact that if cohen knew and other people were present and cohen can say trump knew about the meeting, then that combined with other evidence can build a huge case in terms of Obstruction Of Justice or even conspiracy. Frank, before i let you go, i understand you have a story about david pecker, whos also at the center of this in some capacity. He, of course, was at the national enquirer. Youve interacted with him before. Well, under the heading of you cant make this stuff up, in the crazy week that weve had, i was reminding people that they were asking about ami, who is this company, well, they are owned by a guy named david pecker. The company now basically thats come out and said we do buy these stories, we do keep people quiet, and thats what the substance of the tape was. My brief interaction with mr. Pecker was during october of 2001, when we had the tragedy, the first anthrax murder in u. S. History at Ami Headquarters in
boca raton, florida, and we had an opportunity to talk to mr. Pecker and say, sir, were going to go into the anthrax building, have an opportunity to pull out the most valuable possessions you want us to take from the building, what do you want us to grab . And he said, theres a framed photo of elvis in his coffin and a photo of back boy, you need to grab those. Thats who were dealing with. Frank, thank you very much for that especially. Katie phang, thanks to you, as well. Not the right time to maintain control of congress this election year, to hold back that blue wave, and with the 2020 election right around the corner after that, one of the loudest voices on the left calling for President Trumps impeachment. Make a run for the white house himself. Im going to ask tom steyer that when he returns after the break. 2018 ford f150. With best inclass towing best inclass payload and best inclass torque the f150 lineup has the capability to get big things to big places bigtime. And things just got bigger. F150 is now motor trends 2018 truck of the year. This is the new 2018 ford f150. It doesnt just raise the bar, pal. It is the bar. Whoooo. Tripadvisor makes finding your perfect hotel. Relaxing. Just enter your destination and dates. Tripadvisor searches over 200 Booking Sites to find the hotel you want for the lowest price. Dates. Deals. Done tripadvisor. Sharper vision, without limits. Days that go from sun up to sun down. A whole world in all its beauty. Three Innovative Technologies for our ultimate in vision, clarity, and protection. Together in a single lens. Essilor ultimate lens package. Purchase the Essilor Ultimate Lens Package and get a second pair of qualifying lenses free. Essilor. Better sight. Better life. Just for a shot. But why go back there when you can stay homefice with Neulasta Onpro . Strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. In a key study neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17 to 1 , a 94 decrease. Neulasta onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the day after chemo and is used by most patients today. Neulasta is for certain Cancer Patients receiving strong chemotherapy. Do not take neulasta if youre allergic to it or Neupogen Filgrastim . An incomplete dose could increase infection risk. Ruptured spleen, sometimes fatal as well as serious Lung Problems allergic reactions, Kidney Injuries and Capillary Leak Syndrome have occurred. Report abdominal or shoulder tip pain, Trouble Breathing or allergic reactions to your doctor right away. In patients with sickle cell disorders, serious, sometimes fatal crises can occur. The most common side effect is bone and muscle ache. If youd rather be home, ask your doctor about Neulasta Onpro. Pay no more than 25 per dose with copay card. Keep it comin love. If you keep on eating, well keep it comin. All you can eat riblets and tenders at applebees. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. November. Joining me now, tom steyer, Founder Of Next Gen America and the group need to impeach. Im a grizzled veteran, talked to tom many times. I know how this goes, great conversation, then at the end close with the question of whether or not if hes running. Were going to wait, im going to ask you at the end of the interview. Lets go back a few months. You made a pledge to spend 30 million on the midterms, 100 days from now. You had two dozen races you were looking at in particular. Give us the update on the spend thus far, what youve spent, how youve targeted and what your indications are that thats working so far. Well, david, what we do is were a grassroots organization. Were trying to organize the biggest mobilization of voters under 35 in american history. Were focused on 33 congressional districts, which include eight gubernatorial races, seven senate races, so what weve done, its pretty
much put in place, its like running a business. We have people on the ground, were on 412 college campuses. We have people going door to door, were doing a lot on social media. I think the right way to think about this is, you know, have we seen impact so far in the primaries . Have we seen impact in 2017 in the statewide elections where we were active and where this kind of program was in place . And the answer is, voter to voter contact, conversations between american citizens, are incredibly powerful and particularly for people under 35, which is the largest age cohort in america, the most diverse age cohort in american history, and an age cohort that votes about half the rate of other american citizens. Thats why we believe in democracy, we believe in the broadest democracy, we want to make sure people show up at the polls. Im going to begin to make the pivot towards 2020, were talking about return on investment here, tom, and here i
want to ask about the metric for success. Youre investing in these 33 races. Is turnout the metric that you care most about . In other words, im sure youd love to have democrats win the seats, but is the thing youre watching most closely with an eye towards 200 that Youth Turnout that youve been talking about . Well, david, when we think about elections, there are things that we can control and impact and there are things that we cant control and impact, and what we are the things that we think we can do is encourage and enable people under 35 to understand how important their voice is and how much their vote counts. What we cant control is what happens in washington, d. C. , what happens across the world, the sort of world itself and the events that are happening in the world. What we can do is make people aware of how important their participation is, so we can thats what we can mark, we can watch, we can manage, too. What we cant do, where you want to win for sure, but that isnt
something we can necessarily control. I want to have you react to what the president said yesterday in an interview with sean hannity, his friend and anchor at fox news. Lets take a listen what he had to say on his radio show. So many things have taken place, but the economy is the strongest ever, and i think thats going to have a very positive impact, and i am going to work very hard. Ill kgo six or seven days a wek when were 60 days out, and i will be campaigning for all of these great people that do have a difficult race, and we think were going to bring them over the line, so i really believe that because were doing so well as a country and so well with the economy, i think were going to be surprising a lot of people. All right, tom, i want to get your sense of the Competitive Landscape there. Im going to draw two things out of that, the fact hes going to be out there campaigning i think he said in a couple dozen congressional races across the country and hes focusing on the economy. Give us your assessment here and the competitiveness of those races. Well, david, theres no doubt
that nobody knows whats going to happen on election day, november 6th, 2018. The pollsters have been wrong every single time for the last few years. Theyve not understood who is going to show up and vote, so i think that this is very much a black box and the only thing you can do is put your head down and do your work and try as hard as you can. I think that the economy, the last quarter did have very good growth, and i think that anybody whos not rooting for that isnt rooting for the American People, but what we also saw in the last quarter and that weve seen for decades is that the buying power of peoples wages isnt going up. So even though there was good growth in the economy, working peoples, any growth they got in their salaries, was more than chewed up by cost increases, particularly the cost of health care. So, in fact, if Society Overall is doing better, the benefits of that are not being shared with
the vast bulk of Working Americans and american families. So the president going out and talking about how great everything is, isnt really paying attention to whats happening to american citizens around the country, who if they have any wage growth, modest wage growth, its getting chewed up by Health Care Costs and the costs of living. Here we are at the end of the interview, you continue to be a part of the political conversation in this country. Youve traveled the country from small town to big city talking about your proposal for impeaching the president. You are spending, as i said, 30 million on these midterms. Tom, are you going to be running in 2020 . David, i dont know what im going to do after november 6th, 2018, but what i do see going around the country, having a Petition Drive that has more than 5. 5 million signatures, knowing that we have a nixonian level of disgust with this president and a desire to have
him impeached and removed from office, im going to watch and see if any of those Establishment Politicians step up and Tell The Truth to the American People about the most important questions, because thats something that we are watching like a hawk. We need to have people who are willing to talk to the American People about the most important issues, Tell The Truth, not back away, and not sweep it under the carpet, because thats whats been happening and thats what we dont agree with. Im going to follow up with nancy to get you back on the show november 7th. Okay, david. Tom steyer, always great to talk to you, i appreciate it. Well, our focus on billionaires and the midterms continues. The Koch Brothers also spending heavily in advance of the midterm elections. Which republicans are defending 42 open seats in november. Thats something they have not had to do in nearly 100 years. My colleague Leann Caldwell is in colorado springs, colorado, where the Koch Brothers have convened their semiannual summit for conservative donors. Let me ask you first of all
whats changed. We talk about the Koch Brothers in tandem. Hows this conference different and what are folks saying apt t about the prospects for the midterms . A lot has changed for the Koch Brothers. One brother has stepped down, but let me tell you about this conference. They have it twice a year. You have to donate 100,000 per year to be able to come, and so these are the wealthy, sometimes libertarianminded donors who come together and talk about politics and policy, and weve seen a bit of a shift among the Koch Brothers or about the koch network over the past few months, and that is that they started attacking republicans, as well. I mean, dont get me wrong, they are spending 300 to 400 million on politics and policy for the 2018 midterm elections. Thats an enormous amount of money, and the majority of that is going to be spent to help
reelect republicans, but there is a subtle shift happening between the koch network. They are not happy with what they see. They are trying to shed this partisan image that they have, they are not happy with the tariffs, something they are adamantly opposed to. They are really upset about the fact that congress couldnt come to an agreement on daca. They call it the Family Separation at the border abhorrent, and they are mad about runaway government spending, a 1. 3 trillion spending bill. Yeah, we passed tax cuts, but these other things are really detrimental, so what they say they are trying to do is also going to try to build bipartisan coalitions to try to advance the things they think are important, and that is getting government out of the way and adopting these more libertarian ideals. David . Last question for you. Youre on capitol hill usually, not out there in colorado
springs, and on the hill, of course, a big focus here is on the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to be the next justice of the supreme court. This is something that the Koch Brothers and their organization are focused on, as well. What update can you bring us about their plans to spend on that to get his nomination through the senate . Yeah, no doubt they support Brett Kavanaugh to get through the senate. Theyve already spent money and plan to spend more to help kavanaugh. They are going to spend a lot of money. Theyve spent millions of dollars attacking claire mccaskill, attacking joe donnelly, and all these vulnerable democrats who are up in the senate in 2018, and Brett Kavanaugh is definitely going to be a factor and issue they continue to hit until they see him confirmed. Great to speak with you, thank you very much, out reporting on the Koch Brothers seminar in colorado springs. Over the line, should Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen lose her job over the Trump Administrations
separation of migrant families . Ill talk to liz holtzman, who just stepped down over the Separation Policy. At the Alzheimers Association walk to end alzheimers, we carry flowers that signify why we want to end the disease. And we walk so that one day, there will be a white flower for alzheimers first survivor. Join the fight at alz. Org walk. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. Your mornings were made for Better Things than psoriatic arthritis. As you and your rheumatologist consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. Xeljanz xr is a oncedaily pill for psoriatic arthritis. Taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. Dont let another morning go by
without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. Well, the president s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, goes on trial tuesday, the first of two trials he faces. Hes charged with 18 counts of bank and tax fraud. Hes also part of the Trump Tower Meeting that is back in the news. Joining me now, elizabeth holtzman, who voted on the ni nick nixon impeachment. I want your perspective on this, the first of the two trials, what youre going to be watching for as Paul Manafort heads into the courtroom this week in virginia. Starts on tuesday. Well, i think the evidence is going to be overwhelming against him. I think the thing to watch for is to see when he begins to appreciate the level of evidence prosecutors got. 30 witnesses, enormous number of documents they are going to
present. A lot of this case is a paper case and the witnesses are going to be backing up those documents and there are other witnesses who are very close to him, his former business partner. Rick gates. Rick gates, and so, i mean, at some point its going to have to don on him, this is not a Winning Strategy that he has. I think its a very tough case for him to win. The reason i wanted to have you on is, you wrote a letter to secretary of Homeland Security, Kirstjen Nielsen, about the Separation Policy the administration put in place. You resigned from the Homeland SecurityAdvisory Council. As i gather, this is a group of professionals mostly, who were meeting with the secretary, advising the secretary on things she could do. This is a rather new thing, as is the department itself. Why did you decide to tender your resignation . Well, the Advisory Council does some very important work with the Homeland Security department. For example, when i was there it did work on cybersecurity protection, it did work on home
grown terrorism issues, it studied the issue of private prisons, so a variety of issues. Outside professionals, people with long careers in government giving advice on subjects and giving fine reports. I resigned because when i first was on the council, i had some disagreements with the Obama Administration policies, but, you know, theres always a give and take, and i was very upset when trump started his attacks on immigration policy, on immigrants, calling mexicans rapists, refusing to find some solution for the dreamers, whole policy of mass deportations, ripping families from the United States who have been living here for 20 years without any criminal record. I mean, this was really counterproductive and inhumane, but the final straw was when he decided with his Homeland Security secretary to separate children from their parents. Actually, it wasnt separation. In my view it was kidnapping children, taking them from their parents, and they were and as it stands right now, 700 of those children, at least, if not more, havent even been reunited and its not clear that our government has any intention of reuniting them. And its horrific. Its inhuman. Its cruel. Its malign. I dont know that you have enough adjectives for it, but i couldnt associate myself anymore with this policy, and i actually said at the end of this letter to the secretary of Homeland Security, i said, you know, even though its i who am tendering my resignation, You Are The One who should be resigning. Powerful words, ill read them again. Resigning in protest against these policies, it is you who should be tendering your resignation instead. We hear a lot and see reporting on this administrations disregard for expertise, and youve drawn this contrast a little bit here. When you saw these policy changes happening, was the door open for you to voice your opposition to suggest that they shouldnt be happening . Draw that contrast in as stark relief if you can on what it was like to be on this council before to offer your professional opinion then versus now. How open was the door to secretary nielsens office . Well, the joint letter signed by four of us others who signed with you. We all resigned at the same time, former secretary of the navy, former head of the office of counterterrorism, professor at university of virginia law school, people with long careers in government and highly respected individuals. We resigned because several things. We were not consulted, and because we all found the policy morally repugnant. I had several briefings under this new secretary, and i voiced my objection and my concern about how these policies were being effectuated and the answers i got were not truthful, not candid, and it was hopeless. We said that we werent consulted about these policies,
but to the extent that we had any information, it was inaccurate. In my opinion. And how can you tolerate that . Whereas i remember under the Prior Administration one of the things that i suggested to the people in Homeland Security dealing with immigration is i had been involved with the exodus from people from vietnam. At that time the u. S. Government admitted 750,000 refugees from vietnam, so you can just imagine how ridiculous it looks when the government is afraid of 2,000 children and their parents. Its absurd, its appalling, but in any case, i suggested that we have an Orderly Departure Program from central america, because many of these people have to brave this Terrible Overland trip to the United States, and they literally qualify as refugees. We did this in vietnam. They could sign up as refugees in that country and they didnt have to flee in little boats. I said why dont we do something the same here . I cant take credit for it, because they may have been thinking about it already, but i was able to share that information with them and have a receptive response. Here the information we got back was untrue in some untrue in some circumstances and also the policy was greatly maligned. Liz thanks for coming in. After more than a half century, north korea turned over the remains of 55 u. S. Soldiers killed during the korean war. Doubt lingers about the gesture. James mattis admits, we dont know who is in those boxes. Joining me now is barry mccaffrey. Lets start with the import of this, the president addressed this yesterday on the south lawn of the white house. Talked about how there were families glad to see them come back to the United States. Before we talk about the
broader gee yo little issues. I think for families in general, the most important thing is to have some finality to know what happened. Being missing is one thing, but being unaccounted. Were they killed, what were they killed. Thats what the families need to know. Theres more than 5,000 u. S. Troops still missing, probably in north korean areas. The north koreans extort us for money over the thing, they use it for leverage. Its a very brutal process. I want to read a tweet here, some comments from my colleague Andrea Mitchell about this. She writes, North Create Ya reality check. Kim jongun promised President Trump 200 remains, he delivered 55. North korea is Still ProducingNuclear Weapons fuel. It took years to verify, some were animal bones as you just mentioned. I saw a piece that quoted danny russell. He talked about this being a strategy weve seen from north korea before. When you look at what came out of that summit in singapore. This is one issue where it seems like there has been some moderate progress. You have north korea doing this, and the goal is for us to forget about all the rest thats happening there. Drawing from that tweet that i just read from Andrea Mitchell. Give us your broader perspective. Theres a lot that hasnt changed positively. Since that summit in singapore. Secretary pompeo is in trouble. You have to try to deliver some reality. Our sole objective is to stop the Nuclear Weapons process. That hasnt happened. What may happen is dialogue certainly will reduce tensions. Theres a subordinate goal i feel characterizing it that way. Theres 200,000 people in Concentration Camps in north korea, we can probably better that. What the north koreans are up to, they want the armed forces out of south korea, they want to continue and be recognized as a nuclear power, at the end of the day, i think their major goal is lift the economic constraints. I fear the Trump Administration is in trouble. Theyre using nonsense kind of proclamations of triumph when nothing in reality has changed. Before this summit took
place, john bolton said, you shouldnt look at that summit in helsinki, youre dealing with two different people here, i want to draw a thread between them. There was so much focus on what was happening there. As im sure youre aware, you had this back and forth between the u. S. Government and the russian government this week. You had Vladimir Putin saying, he would be happy to have President Trump come to moscow to meet with him to continue the conversations that began in helsinki. Weve been talking about promises that perhaps were made but not kept. What could the rationale be as you see it, be that in 2018 or 19 based on what weve seen since that helsinki summit. The russians have attacked Western Europe and the u. S. Democratic election systems. Its ongoing, theyve not admitted to it, we have indicted several of their Military Intelligence organizations for carrying this out. Its simply appalling that we consider dealing with putin whos by the way, the biggest victim of mr. Putin are the russian people. I think the Background Challenge right now is apparently having served with three white houses and watching the National Security council in action. There is no National Security process ongoing. Secretary mattis, munchen, pompeo. Mr. Trump within his constitutional powers is winging it on his own. This is not a good way to protect u. S. National security. Always good to talk to you, thank you very much. General mccaffrey joining me from washington today. A quick programming note tonight. Msnbc presents a special look at the dramatic effort to rescue 12
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