For this nomination right now. About four hours from now, one of the key swing votes is scheduled to announce her decision on a vote for or against judge kavanaugh. You heard correctly, even after this key vote republican senator Susan Collins of maine holding open the possibility that her yes today may not necessarily be a yes tomorrow. There is also some question as to whether she is the only one. Weve got msnbcs Garrett Haake on capitol hill for us. Also with us aaron blake senior political reporter for the Washington Post is with me as well. Garrett, let me start with you, sir. Walk us through what the next few hours and next day or so is going to look leek. Again, we should note for our viewers and listeners that the debate over judge kavanaugh could start any moment there on the floor . Reporter craig, the tension level on capitol hill has been at an 11 for the last few days and its about to get ratcheted up to a 15. Were about to see 30 hours of a debate. Perhaps we could see a vote. Perhaps it could stretch into sunday with one republican senator not here for a wedding, but were going to see continued protests, continued speeches, and continued enormous pressure on those four swing senators who have all now cast their first votes here on this procedural motion to move to this next phase tlooch phase. Three yeses from the four on the fence and one no vote. I dont think its safe to say any of those decisions are final. I think we have the yeses here on a procedural basis indicating Susan Collins, jeff flake, joe mansion, who want to see this conversation continue. We know we will hear from Susan Collins about 3 00 this afternoon shes expected to go to the floor and announce her final decision on judge kavanaugh, how she will vote on this final vote. Lisa murkowski, who has looked for a little while like the republican who might be most likely to vote against judge kavanaugh did so in this cloture vote, this procedural vote. She hasnt explained why she made that decision. Is it that she thought this is absolutely a vote she couldnt take, that kavanaugh did not belong on the Supreme Court, did she think republicans were moving too fast . We dont know at this point. This is still very much a jump ball. If youre Brett Kavanaugh right now, if youre the white house. You feel good to be in this final stage but not great. Murkowski is a no, puts you in a tough position. If you lose one more republican senator you might also lose joe mansion, too. You dont want to be the one democrat who votes to approve this justice if all your other democratic colleagues vote no. Were on a knife edge here on this confirmation vote, and were hopefully going to find out more about these four key votes soon, 3 00 being the latest we would hear on one of those four key votes, and thats Susan Collins. While you were speaking there, garrett, we just got a note here regarding senator murkows murkowski. Apparently she just spoke outside the Senate Chamber after voting no on cloture. She called cloture, quote a mistake. Then she went on to say well see what happens tomorrow. She also said shes not planning on talking to mansion unless he asks. What does that tell you, garrett . Reporter it tells me a couple of things. Murkowski has been taking this very seriously. She met for hours behind closed doors with a group of women down from alaska including a bunch of Sexual Assault survivors, who i spoke to afterwards. They described this very emotional meeting. They said myrurkowski was wide open to listen to them, very much respected their stories. They felt like they got through. Thats part of what made me think murkowski might be more likely to vote no. Previously this idea that maybe shes just unhappy with the time line, unhappy with the way this is being pushed through. She more than any other senator up here is very good at saying, absolutely nothing she doesnt want to say, and shes keeping her cards very close to the vest here apparently leaving out the possibility that Something Different could happen tomorrow. It seems to me if you vote no on this first motion, youre unlikely to go backwards on it. The thing about not talking to mansion is interesting, too. Ever since the ford accusations came up, joe mansion, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins and jeff flake have been keeping very close counsel together, the four of them. Not necessarily coordinating their votes, but discussing the steps of this along the way. For example, murkowski and collins were in the secure room yesterday together going over this fbi file so that they have all been keeping Close Council up to this point and not doing so Going Forward is significant. Boy, its hard to say exactly which direction it means this might be going. We also know that senators murkowski and collins were sitting next to each other during this procedural vote. According to people who were inside the chamber, senator murkowski looked pained, almost sad, and we are also hearing from the white house. President trump tweeting just a few moments ago, heres the tweet from the president here who is clearly watching all of this unfold the same way that we are in front of our televisions. Very proud of the u. S. Senate for voting yes to advance the nomination of judge Brett Kavanaugh. Yamish al sindor is at the white house. We know that don mcgahn, the white House Counsel is apparently stationed at the capital right now. Walk us through what else we know about the communication between the republicans on the hill and the white house right now in this crucial 30hour window. The white house has been in close communication with the senate. All week the white house, white house aides, the president himself has been calling senators, basically making the case that Brett Kavanaugh needs to be on the Supreme Court. The president is known for calling senators personally himself and taking the calls personally himself when they call the white house. So this week was really just an enhanced version of that. They knew they were in trouble with Brett Kavanaugh when there was delay after delay with this nomination. Theyre surely watching these votes come in with their fingers crossed thinking hopefully we can get this over the finish line. The fact that joe mansion, a democrat was part of the reason why Brett Kavanaugh advanced really i think will stick in the mind of President Trump because hes someone who, of course, bucked his party. Bucked really infiltrated the Republican Party in some ways and really was not at all backed by the establishment of the Republican Party. I think hes going to remember these people who voted no, even in the state. So Lisa Murkowski is now someone whos going to be looked at by President Trump with scorn because he wants Brett Kavanaugh to be on the Supreme Court, and he really feels as though democrats have really infiltrated and really, i think, delayed this nomination and really tried to destroy not only Brett Kavanaughs reputation but really the reputation of President Trump whose presidency really relies on the fact that whether or not he can get a Supreme Court nominee through. If he cant do this, if for some reason Brett Kavanaugh is not confirmed tomorrow, thats not going to just be a problem for Brett Kavanaugh. Thats going to be a big problem for President Trump. We do know this is a president that has a long memory when it comes to people who have crossed him politically and personally. Ahead of this vote, judge kavanaugh, he publishes this oped this the wall street journal. This is a key portion, by the way. Ill read it for our listeners on sirius and our viewers at home as well. I was very emotional last thursday, more so than i have ever been. I might have been too emotional at times. I know that my tone was sharp, and i said a few things that i should not have said. Aaron blake, we saw him on fox news last week in that interview with martha mccown. Now hes writing opeds for the wall street journal. Youve got to wonder if this was judge kavanaughs idea, how concerned are the white house . How concerned are republicans that Brett Kavanaughs nomination may very much be in trouble . This is a very unusual step for any Supreme Court nominee. Usually you dont see them speak at any venues outside of the confirmation hearings. Theres almost radio silence apart from those things, so the fact that he actually went to this level of public communication i think is pretty startling i think a lot of us had expected this was a done deal, maybe this oped was even just a way of closing the loop, making the case to senator jeff flake who had expressed some concerns about the judges temperament, that that was not going to be an issue Going Forward. And also, this is something that, by the way, even if Brett Kavanaugh does get confirmed to the Supreme Court is something that could follow him Going Forward. There could be key 54 decisions in which hes the deciding vote against the democrats. That partisan testimony will be at issue when people are dissecting those decisions. And so even if ultimately this succeeds and he is a Supreme Court justice, he recognizes that that testimony was a mistake, that it didnt particularly help, and i think that oped is the clearest recognition of that fact. Whats the sense in the white house and perhaps even on the hill about that editorial . Do we know whether it was effective . Theyre not sure. I mean, i think that its still early to say whether or not the white house thinks its effective. I think the fact that Brett Kavanaugh hasnt been confirmed yet is the reason theres a big question. White house aides definitely wanted that opinion piece to be out there because they were worried about not only questions about whether or not Brett Kavanaugh lied but his temperament, the idea that he went off and he was emotional, crying at times, interrupting senators. That all made this nomination even just that much more in question because of that. And i would say that the white house has been saying today that they feel confident that Brett Kavanaughs going to be confirmed. They said that they believe they have the votes to do this, so i think that opinion piece was really just to try to put that over the line there. But the white house here is feeling so much better than they felt this entire week. The whole week the president was fuming. We saw him mocking dr. Ford at rallies. We saw him now mocking walking senator al franken who had to resign because of allegations of Sexual Assault. Now the president wants to take a deep sigh of relief and say can we please be done with this. Tomorrow is the next big step in this, and the white house will definitely be watching this closely. Senior officials telling Kelly Odonnell there at the white house, quote, they are happy with the result, and pleased that the delays are over and on to tomorrow. So reaction from there at the white house. Also, some reaction from protesters as well. Protesters may have had the biggest voice in this process so far. Some directly confronting senators about their votes. As you probably saw, maybe heard police arresting more than 300 protesters yesterday. Nbcs ali vitali is outside the capital. Shes got some reaction to the cloture vote. What have you seen . What have you heard from those protesters . Reporter yeah, craig, weve been out here since this morning, and there are a lot more people gathering after the cloture vote. One of the speakers here announced that senator murkowski voted no. That elicited cheers from the crowd. We also heard from other people who have been disappointed by the way other senators, notably Susan Collins voted. I want to bring in bonnie. Talk about your reaction to the cloture vote . Im very disappointed. I came down here to show my opposition to kavanaugh, and i felt certain this morning that this vote would go down as a no, and im really i cannot believe the one thing that stands out to me is Susan Collins voting to move this forward. As a woman voting against her own gender, not believing or showing validity to many, many examples of his unfitness that shes just seemed to have ignored and so im still hoping, i guess, that he will not be confirmed, but its very disappointing to me right now. Reporter and whats your message to Susan Collins who has said that she might not necessarily vote the same way she voted for cloture later on in the final hearing . Oh, my message to her is to please open up your heart to the women and the survivors and the voices that are wanting to reach her ears that this is very important to us girls in the future, and we need to have people in our government feel that theyll hear and listen to, you know, whats being said and not just ignored. And craig, thats something weve heard from several folks here talking about Christine Blasey fords testimony and the idea that these folks out here want senators to not just believe the women but vote against kavanaugh for that reason. Inside the capital you can see a group of senators huddled there, a group of senators and their staffers as well. Senate majority leader Mitch Mcconnell, bottom right of your screen. You can also see who i believe to be senator ted cruz as well. We are expecting, again, any moment now what could turn out to be some 30 hours of debit over judge kavanaugh to begin there on the floor of the Upper Chamber. Michael steele is with me. Before the vote, senator from tennessee, bob corker said that everything rides on the cloture vote. The cloture vote over, 5149. He will now be voted upon by the entire senate, confirmation vote expected sometime tomorrow. Do you get the sense that judge kavanaugh becomes justice kavanaugh, michael . I do. I just think that this thing has been baked in for a while, going back to that sort of sham of an fbi investigation where the scope was limited and it was basically put on the street. You know, youre not defined what youre looking for. And i think that that sort of set in motion the timetable that were now on that will result in confirmation when the vote is taken. Now, yeah, will Susan Collins come back asknd announce shes voting no tomorrow . Yeah, that could happen. Will it happen . I dont think so. This is the senator that came out after reading those documents from the fbi with senator murkowski, and she said, yeah, well, okay. Everything seems to be in order here. So if thats the case and that was such a Pivotal Point in her decisionmaking process, this fbi investigation, i dont see what stops her now from voting yes tomorrow. And again, while were having this conversation, those senators gathered there on the floor. If republicans are worried, you would not be able to necessarily tell based on facial expressions and body language. The Senate Majority leader appears to be fairly relaxed there. Around him, senator cory gard r gardner. Cory gardner of colorado, there was some talk that senator gardner might be on the fence. Then his spokesperson pushing back a few hours ago indicating that senator gardner is more than likely to vote for judge kavanaugh. Also, senator thune and i believe i see senator tom cotton standing next to marco rubio of florida. Again, right now it would seem as if it would seem as if they are fairly relaxed. Aaron blake, are you still with me . Yes. Aaron, your paper talked to several senators who read that report that Michael Steele was just talking about, that 46page fbi report. They said that the fbi reviewed, quote, several hundred calls, 46 pages came from a threehour interview with mark judge. Also, they talked to him about the third accuser, julie swetnick. In the end, how much did that report even matter . Im not sure that it mattered a whole lot. This was always going to probably be more evidence that would confirm preexisting beliefs about what happened here. I think the most damaging thing the only damaging thing, perhaps, that really could have come out of that report was if there was something that contradicted what the judge had said in his testimony, in his many denials of these things, but the investigation does not seem to have focused terribly closely on that. And so i think that it was more of a political cover operation. It was less robust than a lot of people would certainly want it to be, and by the way it seems to be less robust than even one republican senator thinks it should have been, which is Lisa Murkowski, and we shouldnt forget that here. As republicans are pushing forward for this and arguing that democrats are holding up this process, are delaying, are obstructing, we have a republican senator who basically agrees with the democrats on this, that this is being pushed through too quickly. And i think that creates real messaging problems for republicans, even if they can push this through. You know what . Lets pause for just a quick moment here, guys, if we can. We are going to continue to keep a very close eye on the senate floor for those speeches that are set to begin any moment now. We are going to keep you posted on this story that is changing minute by minute. This is msnbc. A moment of joy. A source of inspiration. An act of kindness. An old friend. A new beginning. Some welcome relief. Or a cause for celebration. Whats inside . [laughter] possibilities. What we deliver by delivering. It was always our singular focus, a distinct determination. To do whatever it takes, use every possible resource. To fight cancer. And never lose sight of the patients were fighting for. Our Cancer Treatment specialists share the same vision. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. Specialists focused on treating cancer. Using advanced technologies. And more precise treatments than before. 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She says shes going to be announcing her decision in just a few hours at 3 00. Our Morgan Radford has made her way to maine because an editorial in collins home state newspaper calls for senator collins to vote no. Morgans in bangor, maine, to get a sense of what voters are thinking, what theyre saying. Morgan, what have you found . Reporter well, craig, we do know that all eyes right now are on washington, but here in bangor, maine, all eyes are on their senator, and thats Susan Collins. As you mentioned, shes one of the biggest question marks in how this kavanaugh vote is going to go, and the reaction here is intense. Its personal, and its very, very split. In fact, 49 of the state in a recent poll said they do not want her to vote to confirm Brett Kavanaugh, even you can see two of the local papers opeds, this is from collins former congressional staffers. Theyre saying you shouldnt vote to put a man in office in the Supreme Court desk who has misled the senate. 42 of the state, to show how tight this is, they said they think she should say yes. Terry, you are a registered republican, correct . I am. Did you vote for senator collins . I did. How do you want her to vote today . Yes. You want her to say yes. Why . Because i think that Brett Kavanaughs has been unjustly accused of these things. I dont know why Christine Ford made the allegations that she did. She may have some other problems or reasons, i dont know. Reporter but you say overwhelmingly yes to kavanaugh. Yes. Reporter as a woman youve seen all these other women protesting in senator collins office, does that affect you at all . Seeing them say do not put this man on the bench . No. Reporter why not . I have to tell you first, my mother was a foster child and was abused in the system, and i understand where theyre coming from. However, i think that it is a reaction that has been fueled by money from the george soros campaign, from nancy pelosi and from other democratic reporter you dont believe them . I dont believe all of them. Im sure it happened to some people, but i dont believe all of them, no. I think a lot of its political expediency. Reporter if in fact, senator collins votes no on Brett Kavanaugh, will you still support her . I think i probably would because i dont i think that shes a fair person. I wont agree with her, but i think that shes a fair person, and i think that she will i think ultimately she will support him because none of these allegations have been have any proof behind them whatsoever. Reporter youre not buying it . Im not buying it at all, no. I dont think a persons life should be ruined just for political expediency, no. Reporter you saw he wrote his own oped, and you said he regretted doing some of the things he did. Did that have any effect on you . He regretted some of the things he said when he answered. I dont blame him for being upset. His family has been attacked. His children have been attacked. Hes been attacked unmercifully and apparently with no corroboration of the allegations, so i would be pretty ticked off myself. As a matter of fact, i think he was pretty circumspect. I dont blame him for the way he behaved, for what he said. Reporter and craig weve talked to a lot of voters like terry and many of them say they think Brett Kavanaugh deserves a fair chance to sit on that bench. Others here have been calling and protesting and sitting in, and they say this is not the time for senator collins to put this man on the bench. Morgan, thank you. That was a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for that. Still with me msnbc capitol hill correspondent Garrett Haake, former rnc chairman, Michael Steele and garrett let me come back to you here. We spent some time looking at Susan Collins. Lets talk about joe mansion here for a second, the democrat from West Virginia, small d democrat, votes yes to proceed. Do we think that he may change that vote, or is that a pretty good idea of where senator mansion is going to fall come the final vote on kavanaugh . Reporter i think its entirely possible he does change that vote. Hes the most conservative democrat in the senate. Hes been that way for a while. Hes up for reelection this year in a state that donald trump carried with a huge margin, and hes in a tight reelection fight. He said early on in this process that he was going to be going home, talking to West Virginia voters, listening to what they wanted him to do. A lot of folks up here who cover capitol hill took that as almost a code that he would be more favorably inclined to vote for judge kavanaugh. It would be the kind of vote, much like his vote for neil gorsuch that would help him a little bit with the republicans in his state, show that hes politically independent, show that hes not chuck schumer, that hes not a liberal east coast democrat, that hes still joe from West Virginia. But hes also a democrat, and does joe manchin want a man in position where he would be the only democrat voting for Brett Kavanaugh, and if another one of those republicans defect, so if Susan Collins or jeff flake decides to vote no, that would put joe manchin in a position of being the 50th vote, being a vote that puts Brett Kavanaugh over the top. Is that something he wants to do . Also, man he told us he was still reviewing the fbi file. He was back in that secure room this morning going over it. I think its entirely possible he has not made a decision, and i think in this case he is very possible that he would change his vote from that yes to move forward to a no on the final confirmation. These floor speeches that we are going to be watching and listening to over the next, literally 30 hours or so perhaps, senator cornyn right now speaking on the floor of the senate. These speeches, garrett, what are they designed to do . Are senators actually trying to change the minds of some of their colleagues, or are these speeches that are designed for their constituents . These speeches are designed for constituents at home. Theyre designed for campaigns. They are not designed to change the votes of these key senators. The kind of lobbying, and the kinds of discussions that are happening right now behind closed doors are so much more personal than this. I mean, craig, if you pull back the lens here, weve had days after days of these massive protests and demonstrations on the hill. I dont think theres a single senator who would tell you that those protests have changed their votes, but the conversations that Lisa Murkowski was having in her office with alaskans yesterday are the kinds of things that might weigh on them. We know from jeff flake that his one encount we are a single protesters and his close conversations with his friend chris coons were part of what led him to make his decision on this. The lobbying thats happening here, the efforts to change votes are happening at a much more micro, much more personal level than the floor speeches youre seeing right now, which are designed for much wider consumption back home. It could also provide folks with just a little bit of color here. Weve got the producers there inside the chamber, also outside as well. In fact, lets take it and take a look see inside the Upper Chamber if we can as senator cornyn speaks, we can tell you that moments after that final vote was called, senator manchun and jeff flake they walked off the floor. Most of the senators at least stayed. They huddled a bit amongst each other. We saw that huddle. Senator mcconnell, senator rubio, senator cruz, senator thune as well, they were all gathered there standing around talking. They appeared to be fairly relaxed. Senator collins who, again, she voted yes. She was at one point approached by fellow republican senators, Lamar Alexander and tom cotton. She was approached at one point, senator murkowski who, again, broke ranks with the party, she voted no. She was approached by a Senate Judiciary democrat, Amy Klobuchar and senator portman from ohio after briefingly talking to th briefly talking to them, they chatted for about ten minutes were told. We have no idea what they talked about. At no point did the senators look like they were in any sort of contentious conversation, but at times cornyn did stare straight at murkowski with his arms crossed. At other times were told he shook his head. He pointed the index finger or she pointed her index finger toward him according to producers who were there inside the room. After senator klobuchar, she started talking to senator coons and senator harris before approaching senator murkowski. Youll recall, perhaps, if youve been watching or listening to us for an hour or so, senator murkowski and senator collins were seated next to each other during the vote. Senator flake and in the cloak room, he was apparently senator flake was scrolling through his phone at one point while collins and murkowski continued to huddle, a big group of senate republicans, they gathered around senator mcconnell. Cornyn, when he finished talking to murkowski he joined that huddle as well. Again, thats just some of the flavor, some of the color from there inside the upper chair burr of t chamber of the u. S. Senate. Michael steele is still with me, former head of the rnc and msnbc contributor as well. All of this, of course, mr. Steele happening against the backdrop of the looming midterms. The midterms now just a few weeks away. Michael as im sure youve seen, there is some polling out now that would indicate that this entire controversy, this entire debate is galvanizing republicans just as much or perhaps even more so as its galvanized democrats. What do you think . What perhaps are you even hearing about that part of the story . Is judge Brett Kavanaugh, his nomination, is that going to be something that motivates people to go to the polls in a few weeks . It is at the moment, but the question becomes if the vote goes to the judges favor this weekend, what happens next . That fight is essentially over, and whats galvanizing people is what they see as an attack on the judge and his family by, you know, left wing partisans, and so that is motivating. Thats what that poll reflects. That poll does not reflect, oh, and now im going to vote in november for whatever. It reflects an interest in this particular fight at this particular moment in time, and the question becomes if they are successful this weekend, the judge goes to the bench on monday or whatever, how does that impact that energy thats out there at the moment, the fights over, so what do you fight for now . Whats next . Which is why the president was basically saying earlier this week, im on the ballot. Its not just about this fight, its about all these other fights that the democrats are engaging us in. The question becomes from the rnc and the political operatives around the country for the party, how do we sustain this energy, this galvanizing energy that we see coming now on the right thats already been there on the left . And the second part of that is if this vote goes down, what does that do on the left . Does that energy level go up even further for the left, particularly among independent voters, which have been swinging more towards democrats in polls recently than towards republicans. Garrett haake is still with me as well there on the hill. Garrett, we were just talking about Susan Collins of maine. Collins voting yes on proceeding with the vote. Her good friend senator murkowski voting no. Senator collins, again, indicating that roughly three and a half hours from now, we will know where her heart is right now because she is going to tell the world how she will vote on senator kavanaugh. Garrett, is it reasonable to assume that senator collins has probably already told senator murkowski how shes voting or do we think this is going to be a surprise, even to her republican colleagues . Reporter its certainly possible. If we know anything about Lisa Murkowski, we know she can keep a secret. If theres anybody up here on capitol hill that knows about Susan Collins vote, Lisa Murkowski is as good a bet as theres going to be. Susan collins has tried to keep her cards close to her vest during this process. She has been inundated probably more than any other single senator by the protests that have been going on up here, and by extraordinary outside pressure. Remember, there was that effort in maine to raise money for an as yet unnamed opponent of hers who might run against her in 2020 if she supported Brett Kavanaugh. Collins has been at the middle, the dead center of absolutely every contentious fight we have had in this Congress Since donald trump has become president , and she wears the weight of that pretty openly. This is not a position that i think she imagined herself being in when she came to the senate as being the pivotal vote on almost everything, and so that relationship with murkowski and with john mccain when he was still here, flake, manchin, heitkamp, the other folks who have been been at the center of so many of these things is really important to her, and i think has a factor in her decision beyond just the political, but knowing that there is this core group of senators who have been through these battles together over and over again. As i was saying before, i think those private conversations are going to be far more meaningful to a senator like Susan Collins than the dozens, if not hundreds of protesters who have been camped out outside her office and in the halls around us here over the last few weeks. White house correspondent for pbs news hour, for this hour, she is a White House Correspondent for us. We know that don mcgahn is on the hill, white House Counsel don mcgahn. Do we know what hes doing there . Hes likely talking to senators trying to get a state of play and trying to figure out if theres anything the white house can do to push this over the line. As i said, the president really wants to be personally involved as much as he can be in swaying these final votes for Brett Kavanaugh and trying to pull this over the line, so in some ways thats what don mcgahn is doing. I should say President Trump sensed early on that Brett Kavanaughs nomination could be a rallying cry for republicans across the country. In a lot of ways hes right. Theres a new poll out that showed the enthusiasm cap between republicans and democrats if the midterm elections has almost all but evaporated. Over 80 of republicans and 80 of democrats said they thought these midterm elections were very important. I think about that interview that Morgan Radford did with that voter thats saying some of the things that President Trump is saying. Shes echoing the president s language, which is what this president wanted. He wanted people to think Brett Kavanaugh was treated unfairly, that his life was being destroyed, and now we have republicans all over the country saying those same things. Back to the hill, its really in the hands of senators now. The president , of course, wants to do all he can. In some ways hes a bystander. Hes watching for these senators to make up their minds. It would be great if all of you could stand by for me just a moment again. A historic day on the senate floor playing out right now. Its going to be playing out for the next several hours. Coming up, we are going to talk to a man who can help put all of this in perspective for us. One of my favorite guests is going to join us, president ial historian, john meacham. Ohn mea. Here comes the rain. [ horn honking ] [ engine revving ] whats that, girl . [ engine revving ] flo needs help . [ engine revving ] take me to her coming, flo why arent we taking roads . flo. [ horn honking ] oh. You made it. Do you have change for a dollar . This was the emergency . [ engine revving ] yes, i was busy 24hour roadside assistance. From americas numberone motorcycle insurer. You know, i think youre my best friend. You dont have to say im your best friend. Thats okay. As the speeches continue there in washington, d. C. , again, right now senator i believe its senator cornyn. Do we have a live shot . No, dick durbins now speaking, senator from illinois speaking on the floor presumably against the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh. We are going to see likely just about every u. S. Senator do this over the next several hours, make floor speeches. I want to bring in president ial historian and msnbc contributor john meacham whose latest book goes right to the heart of the problem that plagues this country. One of the great problems. The soul of america, the battle for our better angels. We just heard senator cornyn a few moments ago, john, speaking on the senate floor, and wup of the and one of the things he said that struck us, he said hes never seen it this venomous. Thats a bold statement considering the times in which we find ourselves with regards to political discourse. Is that your assessment . Are these the most venomous times . Theyre not, which is not to say theyre not venomous, but its not the most. There was an era in the precivil war years where congressmen were beating senators with sticks on the floor. Fort sumptter was pretty bad in terms of division. Where we are is at a particularly tribal moment in american politics, and one of the institutions that weve always counted on to be supratribal, if you will, to be above the arena, above the passions of the moment, the Supreme Court, has become part of that struggle. I think this is really the third moment in a series of 20th century moments that we will look at as we look at the history of the court. The first was 1937, 38, 80 years ago when franklin roosevelt, who had carried every state except maine and vermont in the 1936 election full of hubris, full of a mandate decides far more so than bigger margins, certainly than the president or Mitch Mcconnell could ever dream of, fdr decides that he has this conservative court that had been largely appointed by republicans. They were striking down new deal legislation, so he wanted to pack the court. He wanted to add justices for every justice who was over 70 years old, which brought the court directly into the arena of partisan politics. The second moment that was like this was in the 1950s when earl warren, who was Dwight Eisenhowers pick, former republican governor, attorney general of california, led the court on the integration decisions in particular, and in my native region, your native region, there were signs around the south saying impeach earl warren, bringing the court right into the center of partisan conflict. I think this is a moment in that on that continue tin y matter what happens, the court is going to be seen as a far more political body than a lot of us would like to think, anyway. These tribalistic times in which we currently live, how do we get out of them, john . You know, you can look through the white house. I dont think either person, i dont think either someone on the conservative end of the spectrum versus liberal end of the spectrum, theyre not going to think this is an administration thats going to help lift us out of this current era. I dont think any of the lawmakers that were watching right now over the next few hours, i dont think anyones looking to them to help us. So how do we get better . Well, we get better by degrees, and thats the frustrating answer here. This country has been divided since before the revolution. 20 or more of the country didnt want to break away from britain. Weve been divided, north versus south, e grer yan versus industrial, republican versus democrat, red versus blue. This is really a 51 country, which is why todays vote is going to be, i think, emblematic, not just of where we are right now, but by and large, where weve been. Now, i know people will say other Supreme Court justices have been approved by huge margins and thats true. But i think the larger view, at least my opinion, is that the soul of the country has room for both dr. King, but it has also been home to the ku klux klan, and the way the soul, the way the country moves forward is can the dr. King side win just enough of the time to make us move forward. And its always going to be a close run thing. The idea that somehow or another theres a magic bullet or that theres, you know, the kingdom of heaven is at hand if only a senator voted this way or that way just is ahistorical. One hopes for this. One hopes well have a Margaret Chase smith moment today. I feel compelled to mention a republican senator from maine, who happened to be a woman, i dont know if you can see the relevance there or not, but Margaret Chase smith in 1950, just a few months after joe mccarthy started his reign of terror, laid out a speech which she called the declaration of conscien conscience, the direct case against joe mccarthy. Only six senators joined senator smith in denouncing mccarthy on the early side, and mccarthy dismissed them as snow white and the six dwar fs, but we got to a better place. It took four years. How did that happen to go directly to your question . It happened because the country decided that that was not who we wanted to be all the time. We didnt want to be a country that chased people, that looked for communists under the bed. We wanted to be a people that hoped more than feared, and i think its going to require innumerable acts of citizenship, of protest that will ultimately affect the way the people in washington work. My last point is that and i think this is vital over the next 32 days ask beyond if you are frustrated by whats going on today, then voting in 32 days is the most vital thing you can do because politicians are far more often mirrors of who we are than they are molders, and what these republican senators are seeing is theyre seeing that their republican bases in enough of these states have decided to side with trump and side with judge kavanaugh against what they see as a Democratic Campaign to deny them a seat that they took away from obama in the first place. We could argue the rest of the year about whether thats logical or not, but thats the political reality, and so in a world governed by politics, you have the shape the political forces, and you therefore have to show up, and if enough people had shown nup key states, this wouldnt be happening. Jon, it is, you know, i dont want to put you on the spot here, but you have been following this closely, a hound do you think that it is going to play out . You know, i didnt think that donald trump would be president , so as my 16yearold son reminds me, what the he will, l do y what the hell do you know and my only defense is neither did trump. I think that senator collins has a chance to make history and vote know and join Margaret Chase smith and other senators who have a brave and lonely stand in her caucus. But it comes down pretty much to her. Where she ends up, i dont know. With what i would urge, and i would always say to people who are in office if i have a chance to talk to them, what do you want us to think when we look at your oil portrait, and it tends to work because none of them cannot imagine a world where where we would not be gazing at their oil portrait. And what is more important in the given cycle to keep the majority leader happy a more important is the verdict of history and three or four people to do that today and make history and they may lett the chance pass them by, but it is a rendezvous they have with how history is going to view them. Jon meachum, i enjoy your perspective. Thank you, sir. And have a good weekend. And democratic senator the of new jersey bob menendez a had quite the reaction when he saw the report on the Brett Kavanaugh investigation. That is a [ bleep ] investigation i wont fill in the bleep, but you can guess what he says, but he is joining me from the rotunda, and senator, the cloture vote is over, and we are now on the clock for perhaps 30 hours until the final vote happens. Whats going to happen based on the conversations with the colleagues on both side of the aisle or do we really just not know yet . I dont think that we fully know yet, and i think that we will know this afternoon when senator collins has said that sometime around 3 00 p. M. She is going to give the speech and announce what her vote is. She has the opportunity to the make history, and an opportunity to be remembered in history as someone who stood up for making sure that the Supreme Court is a court that is fullile balanced that has individuals on it who have to a appropriate judicial temperament and who are not simply a political operative. And i hope that she has in other times that she rises to that moment. We will see. For my own view, obvious ly, i strongly opposed to judge kavanaugh, and i was opposed to his nomination, before the allegations of dr. Ford, because his positions on civil rights and Voting Rights and reproductive rights and siding with big corporations against the little guy, and just simply is not what i believe needs to be on the Supreme Court, but after i saw dr. Fordsle testimony, and i think that it was incredibly powerful, and i think that it was truthful and i believe her. And then i saw his response, which was overtly political, and showed him to be what he really is which is a political operative dressed in the robes of the judge and not someone whose temperament and whose words are befitting of the Supreme Court. So i hope that todays vote is not indicative of the final vote, and i hope that we can still defeat Brett Kavanaugh. We are just hearing from senator murkowski who, again, voted no on the closure, and she apparently told one of the producers frank thorp that she changed her mind on how to vote to the way to the chamber. It sounds as if senator murkowski from alaska was prepared to vote yes, and then in the chamber changed her mind. How often do senators change their minds, senator menendez . Well, i must say that most of the time you go in there with a pretty clear determination, on any given issue as to how you will vote. Occasionally, when you are struggling over a vote, it may be that at that moment, especially a vote that will be remembered in history, and not every vote that we cast will be remembered in history, but when there is a vote to be remembered in history, then sometimes, members will decide at that moment. So i can understand her struggle as a are republican senator, but she is a conscientious member of the senate, and i ohope that her ultimate vote is what she did in the procedural vote with which is a no. I hope that senator collins ultimately votes no. And that we can stop this nomination, because i believe that the consequences are too great. Senator, senator, quickly, we are getting word from washington and again the producers are on the ground there in washington hearing from arizona senator jeff flake. Senator flake informing the team on the ground that he is a yes vote on judge kavanaugh and vote ing to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. Senator menendez, does that surprise you . No. I mean, i are respect senator flak flake, but look, anyone who asked for an investigation as senator flake did, and then look looks at the investigation, and the results of the investigation they did, and that is not an investigation. I wont repeat what i said yesterday, but clearly, that is not an investigation. Seven witnesses that dr. Ford offered to the attorneys were not interviewed and dr. Ford, who is the subject along with judge kavanaugh, and the subjects of the investigation was not interviewed and a series of kavanaughs classmates who often said that he drank to excess and belligerent which goes to the demeanor and temperament were not interview and witnesses from deborah ra ramirez was not interviewed and so how can you consider that a investigation . It is far from a investigation. I want to play the sound of jeff flake. Glad that we did it. You plan to vote yes tomorrow . Yes. Unless something with big were to change. I think that we had a process. What about no, i admire her a lot. And everybody had to make their own decision, and i think the world of her. And what kind of conversation did you have with mr. Manchin, but i will lett him characterize it, but it was anyway, i admire him, too. This is a tough decision obviously. Do you think that mr. Kavanaugh has the votes, sir . Was it a hard decision . Of course, yeah. Of course. I think that you have we have all been seeing it, and it is a difficult decision for everybody. It really is. And so, anyway, we did our best. And will you have vote to confirm tomorrow . Yes, i believe so. And so there is jeff flake there, and a yes vote on kavanaugh saying that they believe they have the votes, and the white house is indicating that they believe it has the votes as well. Senator menendez, it would seem as if, and i mean, we will hear from senator kol lip collins in three hours and find out where her head is, and it seems that they have the votes to confirm Brett Kavanaugh and do you share that assessment . Well, i hope not. And with that we will see in a couple of hours depending on senator collins. Atte at the end of the day, it is every member is going to be remembered as to where they were, and, you know, how they voted. Have you talked to senator manchin . And so is that is have you talked to senator manchin . Not today, but he has been struggling with the process of the deciding. I look forward to his ultimate decision as well. All right. Senator bob menendez of new jersey. Senator menendez, thank you so much for your time and thank you to all of the guests and the panelists this hour for their time as well. Again, we are watching history unfold in washington, d. C. , and again, right now, senator dick durbin is on the floor and he has been there for almost i believe 25 minutes or so, and making the case against judge kavanaugh. We know that roughly three hours from now, senator Susan Collins of maine is going to be letting us know how she is going to be voting, and senator murkowski of alaska voted for the cloture vote, but senators collins, manchin and flake voting yes, and if those votes stay the way they are right now, and the senator collins decides that she is going to not continue to suppo support, but going to confirm then judge Brett Kavanaugh will become a Supreme Court justice a and we should know more in three hours or so. Andrea mitchell reports. Thank you. Craig melvin, what a historic day. I am across from the capitol as we continue the breaking historical day here. The nomination of Brett Kavanaugh resting in the hands of three senators unless the others switch positions in the next 28 hours. The drama today, the West Virginia democrat joe manchin, and retiring republican jeff flake, and more on him in a moment, and Susan Collins to help kavanaughs nomination clear a pro