Against was mike warner who worked with pompeo quite a bit in his Senate Intelligence committee. Warner coming out and saying i cant vote for him but i wish him the best. Im watching the senate floor on a monitor here and im not sure who theyre still waiting for. The vote is i was just told the vote is over. Youre think theyre still waiting for one more vote . Yes, its possible. Theres no other reason why they would keep this open. Its possible somebody was still at lunch or had to run off with something else. They have to keep these open as long as necessary. The senates pretty collegial about this to make sure anybody who wants to vote does get the chance to do so. That gives you the road map for how the rest of this is going to go. Mike pompeo will be confirmed as the next secretary of state. Now its just a question of when over the next few minutes. It look the as though there was this fight within the Senate ForeignRelations Committee and now you have, as you said, a pretty comfortable margin. Can you say overall what turned it or is every individual reason every person has an individual reason of their own . Yes, i think you see a couple of Different Things at play. The rand paul switch was a big deal. When President Trump convinced rand paul to vote in favor of pompeo and he had previously been planning to vote against. It took this idea that pompeo might fail in the Foreign Relations committee off the table. I think that was a big shift. Probably locked any republicans who had their doubts in place and it might have made it easier for some democrats who are in tough reelection fights who want to be able to show they can work with the president open some things. Made it a little bit easier for them to do so. And i think thats potentially why you see so many of these red state democrats having to run for reelection this november casting votes in favor of pompeo. Now they can go home and say, look, we felt this guy was satisfied, were able to work with the president when we think its in our states best interest. Its a relatively easy kind of olive branch vote for some of these red state democrats. Especially when they know its a foregone conclusion pompeo will be confirmed anyway. Garrett haake, thank you. Mike pompeo becoming the 70th u. S. Secretary of state. In the meantime, we want to get to that stunning president ial interview that might be construed as donald trump just letting off steam, but instead, with stunning swiftness, its having a very realworld impact. Just within the last hour, Justice Department prosecutors used President Trumps own words to undercut a key claim made by his longtime attorney Michael Cohen. Cohen has been the subject of a federal investigation ever since fbi agents raided his home and office earlier this month. For weeks now, cohen has been jockeying with prosecutors over just how much of those seized materials prosecutors can review. His lawyers argue most of that material is protected by Attorney Client privilege. But that privilege apparently does not stand if cohen had only a limited role as trumps attorney. This doesnt have to do with me. Michael is a businessman. Hes got a business. He also practices law, i would say probably the big thing is his business. I have nothing to do with his business. Mr. President , how much of your legal work was handled by Michael Cohen . As a percentage of my overall legal work, a tiny, tiny little fraction. But my goal would represent me and represent me on some things. He represents me like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal. He represented me. And, you know, from what ive seen, he did absolutely nothing wrong. There were no Campaign Funds then why is he pleading the fifth . Because hes got other things. Hes got businesses. From what i understand, theyre looking at his businesses. So weve got the president seeming to minimize his attorneys role as a lawyer. And acknowledging for the first time that cohen represented him concerning Stormy Daniels. But thats a bit different than these comments from the president just a few weeks ago on air force one. Mr. President did you know about the 130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels . No. Why would Michael Cohen say this . You have to ask Michael Cohen. He is my attorney. Youll have to ask michael. The president s admission today immediately prompted a response from Stormy Daniels lawyer. Ill tell you, huge, hugely damaging admission by the president because according to what he said on air force one a few weeks ago, he didnt know anything about the agreement. Michael cohen went off and did this on a lark and mr. Trump knew nothing about it. Danny cevellas, msnbc legal analyst, joins us now. We want to start at the federal courthouse with news on the judge overseeing cohens trial there. What can you tell us . The judge, kim bah wood, hav decided the massive amount of documents that cohen and trump say were seized by the federal government in the Southern District of new york here will be reviewed by a special master, a former federal judge herself, to determine what documents are Attorney Client privilege and what documents are not. This, by any accounts, is a victory for the cohen and trump team because the default position is for the government to allow a filter team of prosecutors to review the documents for privilege. Cohen and trump had asked for themselves to review the documents which was always a long shot. Judge wood has essentially split the difference and landed in the middle appointing a special independent special master to review these privilege documents. The downside is that this may take significantly longer than if the government had been permitted to use their own filter team. So are we talking weeks, months potentially here . Its hard to say. That depends entirely on the number of documents seized and the number of documents that cohen and trump will argue that are privileged and should be, should remain privileged. All right, let me go to now what we just heard from Michael Avenatti. He said the president s admission is hugely damaging. Seth, do you see it that way or is this just the president letting off steam . Hes somebody known for inconsistencies anyway. No, i think its a big problem for the president. Hes stepped on another land mine right in the context of ongoing litigation. His lawyers and he have taken the position in the last week or two these documents that were seized and were subject to the Attorney Client privilege and should not be viewed by the government. Now hes gone on record saying Michael Cohen did very little work for him in the legal context. They will be hammering that point at every turn with the special master and ultimately with judge wood to say look, hes not even acting as an attorney. Whether its 20 documents or 10,000 documents, this is a Pretty Simple process because the president himself, who is the client and who controls the Attorney Client privilege, telling us he didnt use cohen very much as his lawyer. I guess theres different ways you can interpret this. Thats what lawyers often are paid to do. When the president said he does a tiny, tiny little fraction of, you know, my Legal Business, does that necessarily mean its a tiny fraction of Michael Avenattis im sorry, of cohens Legal Business . It could be, in fact, couldnt be, that he actually that takes up a lot of his time. Wheres the line here . Right. There are two major points to be taken from the president s comments. One is that he says a tiny tiny amount of legal work was done, of his legal work was done by Michael Cohen. But the other thing that is significant is that he says Michael Cohen is, and im paraphrasing, primarily a business man. The Attorney Client privilege only attaches to legal advice. Business advice. Just general chitchat does not create an Attorney Client privilege. So those two components are very significant. You can see the circle, the university of documents claimed by cohen and trump be to be privileged to get smaller when it relates to Business Advice and smaller again as trump says only a tiny amount of his Legal Business was done by cohen. Seth, you also heard the president there justifying Michael Cohens use of the fifth amendment. That doesnt jive with what weve heard from him in the past. I just want to remind folks. So he pleaded the fifth amendment. What are we going to do with this guy . What happened . He pleaded the fifth, right . He pleaded the fifth. Where is he . Fifth amendment, fifth amendment, fifth amendment. Horrible, horrible. Pleading the fifth amendment in front of congress. You saw that today, yesterday. Fifth amendment. When you have your staff taking the fifth amendment, taking the fifth so theyre not prosecuted. Taking the fifth amendment. How about that . You see the mob takes the fifth. If youre innocent, why are you taking the fifth amendment . You can legitimately ask that question. On the other hand, it is his right to do this. Whats the impact of this . I think theres a huge impact but not for traditional reasons. A jury would never hear that a criminal defendant pled the fifth. Of course that is not a normal criminal case in a jury that would be sitting in manhattan. Is going to know that he pled the fifth, making it that much more likely that they would find him guilty. So right now mr. Cohen, his lawyers are trying to decide what to do. Do they go through the litigation against the Southern District of new york if theres an indictment . Or do they cooperate with the government . If it makes it more likely a jurys going to convict, it pushes him further away from mr. Trump and closer to the prosecutors in the sourp district of new york who which of course can share information with bob muler if mr. Cohen knows stuff relating to the russia investigation and maybe thats why were starting to see mr. Trump, the president , distancing himself a bit from mr. Cohen. Let me ask you this quickly, seth, ill start with you, just based on what weve seen over the last less than 24 hours, is the president s jeopardy higher or about the same . I think its getting higher for the reasons i just stated. Anything that drive ms. Cohen closer to cooperate could be devastating for the president. As weve been hearing, he worked as mr. Trumps fixer. Theyve had a close relationship for ten years. We can only guess to what mr. Cohen knows, whether its obviously related to the Stormy Daniels matter or, even more importantly, to the russia investigation. These events call mr. Cohen to be closer to cooperating, that is something that will be troubling to trump. Danny, you agree . I do. The factor here is whos going to offer Michael Cohen the best deal in a deal is ever offered . On the one hand, donald trump could arguably pardon him, but on the other hand, the government in theory could offer a nonprosecution agreement. Which is not preferred by the u. S. Attorneys policy but its something that would be even better than a pardon. So Michael Cohen is really feeling the pressure. Irrespective of the fact they definitely could be considered to have won today in court. Danny cevellos, seth waxman, thank you. We appreciate their expertise. On any other day, the big news would be the withdrawal of the president s nominee to head the va or the grilling of epa administrator scott pruitt on capitol hill. For a laundry list of alleged ethical lapses, accusations he called half truths and twisted. But all of that has been eclipsed by the stunning president ial interview thats been described as a rant, a meltdown, or as hally jackson put it on twitter, the president seems to have a lot he wants to get off his chest. It covered a wide range of topics starting with the defense of his va secretary nominee. These are all false accusations. These are false. Theyre trying to destroy a man. By the way, i did say welcome to washington, welcome to the swamp. Tommy is a leaker and hes a liar. Not only on this stuff. Hes been leaking for years. He is guilty of crimes. And if we had a Justice Department that was doing their job its your Justice Department im very disappointed in my Justice Department. You look at the corruption at the top of the fbi, its a disgrace. And our Justice Department, which i try and stay away from but at some point i wont. Our Justice Department should be looking at that kind of stuff, not the nonsense of collusion with russia. Michael represents me like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal. He represented me and, you know, from what i see, he did absolutely nothing wrong. I would give myself an aplus. Nobody has done what ive been able to do and i did it despite the fact that i have a phony cloud over my head that doesnt exist. Join meg now, michael singleton, former deputy of staff. Dana milbank is a Washington Post political columnist. Surmichael, you could hear, i dont know if it was angle, frustration, but definitely you could hear something in the president during that interview that caused him to raise his voice repeatedly. Whats going on here . Look, i think theres been a dark cloud over this white house for quite some time. If you listen to that interview, the president sounded frustrated, hes flustered, hes ann annoyed, agitated by this process. That comes with being in politics, right . Traditionally, political leaders would not state these grievances publicly. Thats whats so different about donald trump and what makes this matter even worse is that by stating these grievances publicly, he is hurting himself, particularly with the Michael Cohen issue, as your two previous legal analysts stated. Politically speaking, i think this gives democrats even more leaverage as we head to novembe. I think a lot of republicans, even those who do support the president are not going to be eager to come out in november as they were last in 2016. Remember, hes not on the ballot in november. You think about all those things coupled together, i dont think this is good for the Republican Party and i dont think this is good for the white house. You just heard what the president said. He rates himself in a plus. In all of these things, hes being mistreated. The people around him are being mistreated. He did that obviously on fox friends and hes already, you know, preaching to the choir. Having said that, you already have a filing in court within an hour related to what he has to say. What do you make of what you heard today . You know, it wasnt so much as it was a 30minute long orl tweet in which he vents. When he raises his voice, thats when hes in all caps. Where theres no character limit. He was in all caps for a lot of it, use ago ling a lot of exclamation points there. Here, he was actually doing it audibly. I think this is the dang are that the president has. Now you have Rudy Giuliani trying to negotiate with mueller about an interview the president will give. Theyre terrified about this for just this reason. You never know what is going to come out of the president s mouth. Let me ask you about one thing, he continued to rail against the Justice Department. Weve heard him do that before, dana, but he claims he stayed away from the Justice Department but hinted about possibly changing his mind and getting involved. What do you take away from that . Thats another profoundly unhelpful thing. In this relatively short span, he worsened his situation in the Stormy Daniels lawsuit. He worsened his situation visavis the mueller investigation. Should again send schiffhivers t shockwaves to capitol hill. You never know what hes going to actually say. If he sits down with mueller, who knows what admission hed make without even realizing hes making it officially. You think, suhmichael, this is another instance of hes shrugging it off, even if hes watching cable television, even though he denies hes watching it, he often comments very specifically on things that happened on cable television. It goes back to the campaign, he could stand on fifth avenue, shoot somebody down and get away with it. Do you think theres no filter because he thinks there are never any consequences . Well, right, but i think the president is about to get a lesson 101 in politics. There will be consequences and those consequences will be felt in november. Even real clear politics, which is sort of puts all the polling data together to get an average, democrats are ahead of us. I dont foresee that changing. You think its difficult now, chris, for the president to even work with republicans who control both the house and the senate . Just imagine how difficult its going to be if democrats control the house. And the democrats, they do not have any type of mandate from their voters to work with this president. So i think its going to be very, very difficult for donald trump to govern effectively under the type of behavior hes displayed thus far. Once again, this is not in his interest. Its not in the interest of the Republican Party. I think at some point in time, chris, very soon, republicans are going to have to say you know what, this guy is putting the entire party at risk, at jeopardy, we have to begin, the same as the president , you have to tone this down. Is there anything, though, thats going to tone this president down, dana . I mean, maybe hes looking at today, saying, look, i just got my secretary of state confirmed. He says hes already got somebody else in his back pocket. He decided who his next nominee is going to be for the secretary of the department of Veterans Affairs and, again, to repeat his own selfanalysis, he gives himself an aplus. Right. Whats going to change . I think it is impossible for him to tone down. Now, we may look at it im going to interrupt you for just a second. Lets go to Michael Avenatti outside the courthouse. We think she is nothing short of an exceptional choice. Were hopeful the court will grant our motion to intervene in this matter so that miss cliffed f for clifford can take steps in connection with the case we are pursuing in los angeles. Ill take questions. What does being there well, it would give us formal standing in connection with the case and likely would also grant us access to various categories of documents but not all of the documents. What did you think about what President Trump said today on fox tv about his involvement with mr. Cohen i think the president should appear on fox friends every morning. I thought it was exceptional for our case and i thought it was disastrous for him. Do you think it implicates him . I think theres no question it implicates him. I dont believe theres any way you can reconcile what the president said on fox and friends, with the statements on air force one, with the prior statements of cohen. Those are all irreconcilable. A significant problem for Michael Cohen and the president. Michael, when the president says Michael Cohen did a tiny percentage of his legal work for him what significance does that have on privilege today . I think it could have a significant issue as it relates to privilege. Michael, how do you feel about the special master . Cohen, how did you get any comment, mr. Cohen . Tell the truth. Traitor. Tell the truth so we saw the press go away from avenatti and go to cohen. Some people have questioned his abilities as a lawyer frankly. Having said that, he knew enough not to answer questions, as we saw with the president , could potentially raise the legal stakes for him. Could we go back to danny, outside of that courthouse . We missed the very top of what Michael Avenatti had to say. Maybe hes still taking theyve gone back to him and theyre taking questions again. We just saw that he put in his ear piece. We saw Michael Cohen going and getting in the car not saying anything. We missed the top of what Michael Avenatti had to say. Bring us up to speed here. Michael ava naty was talking generally about the president s comments this morning. And how they how he would like to see the president give an interview like this every day. He just took a couple questions but was interrupted hes speaking again, lets go listen and then well come back to you. Im confident shell be returning to court at an appropriate time, appreciate it, thank you. Im making an assumption when he said were go ahead. Are we going to go back to danny . We just had Michael Avenatti walking by here. Michael, michael, michael whats the bottom line yesterday, Michael Cohen pled the fifth amendment. The an unbelievable moment in the history of our nation. The first time a sitting president s attorney pled the fifth only weeks after the president pointed the American People to his attorney to answer questions. Earlier this morning, the president contradicted his prior statements on air force one. This stinks and the American People will soon discover the truth. I appreciate the time. What did you think about trump saying that danny, i mean, this is just a wild scene outside obviously, a lot of people there. Its a scrum. Yes. He said something right at the end there. You and i were probably hearing it at the same time. I dont know if you could hear the question leading up to it. But it sounded like he was going to say we were going to see Stormy Daniels back in court soon . Did you hear that last question he answered before he walked by . I couldnt hear it from where i was standing but likely means we will probably see stormy as an intervening party and of course well see her in her own case on the other side of the country. And at the top, he talked about an exceptional choice, was he talking about the special master, because obviously thats not what he wanted. But do you know what he was saying about she was an exceptional choice . I think he may have been saying that she was a well qualified choice special master barbara jones. But i do think he probably did not expect the special master to be appointed by all accounts and given the precedents, filter teams such as the kind used by the government is normal process and one that judge wood expressed her support for. I dont know how you juggle all this but we appreciate it, danny, out in, as he said, in that scrum. Thank you so much for that. So much breaking news, including the senate, just confirming President Trumps choice to be secretary of state. Mike pompeo. That was just moments ago. Were going to go live to capitol hill to see how this vote broke down. Plus, in the hot seat as epa administrator scott pruitt being grilled open capitol hill right now. How he answered tough questions about significant raises that members of his staff got. Delivery should look like this. Handcrafted layers of clean food you can give your kids. Tomatoes. Even the picky ones. Panera. Food as it should be. Now delivered. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Incredibly busy day on capitol hill today. Within the last half hour, Mike Pompeo Confirmed as secretary of state by the full senate. Over in the house meantime, embattled epa administrator scott pruitt is facing more tough questions from lawmakers this hour. Im going to go straight to nbcs kacie hunt on capitol hill. So this morning it was quite a grilling and among the issues, was pay raises for political appointees. I want to play part of an exchange between pruitt and democratic congressman paul tonko. Did you, administrator, authorize mr. Jackson to sign those documents for you . Congressman, those were delegated to mr. Jackson and the Inspector General did reference that in his management alert so you did authorize him to sign them . Those decisions, that decision was made yes or no, did you authorize him . There were delegations given without authority. So thats a question . The Inspector General recognized that, congressman. Were you aware of the raises . I was not aware of the amount, nor was i aware of the bypassing or the process im concerned you have no idea what is going on in your name at your agency. So that at least on the democratic side, kacie, was that pretty much hose things wew thi today . Chris, thats about right. The administrator had excuses for the long list of supposed ethical lapses that have occurred during his time as epa administrator. There have been concerns and those worries about the personnel reasons were one that i think was a very intense focus. You also had some back and forth about those over 100,000 in first class flights that he took. Now, he says thats security related. But he was pressed by both democrats and republicans on those questions. And of course the reports havent just been that he did, in fact, fly first class, but also theyve been trying to figure out how to allow him to take chartered planes, which of course would be even more expensive. The thinking here on capitol hill has been essentially that this performance here is for an audience of one and that is the president of the united states. I hate to interrupt you go ahead, chris. I mean, this is a crazy day of breaking news. If we have time, well get back to kacie because were going to see scott pruitt again. We apparently have a verdict in the bill cosby retrial. This is happening in pennsylvania. His last trial ended in a hung jury. In this case, there are three counts of aggravated indecent assault and a number of women have accused him, but only one led to criminal charges. That is Andrea Constand. Lets go. Who do we have at the trial . Oh, lisas here. Lisa greens here joining me. What are you going to be looking for . Does it tell you anything . We always try to read the tea leaves about how quickly they came back. Its a very different experience than round one which was days and days of reading back testimony followed by a mistrial. Here, significantly, the jury asked to hear the testimony of Marguerite Jackson, a purported friend of constand, by really going to credibility by saying constand denies this, that she was pondering a scheme for money. So was the jury listening to that . Remember, its a he said she said case ultimately is. Whats difference this time though arguably and maybe it doesnt play into it at all, but between trial number one and trial number two, we had the me too movement. A lot of people hearing experiences from people maybe they never realized before had suffered Sexual Harassment or Sexual Assault. Obviously, it was ubiquitous throughout the coverage on tv news and newspapers, twitter, everywhere we looked, we saw real impact for a lot of people in very prominent positions. Do you think that could be the key difference between trial one and trial two . In the first trial, only one other component. It had said cosby behaved similarly. It was almost like a me too movement, woman after woman. This behavior was not unprecedented. Surely that supports constands case, right . You see the parallel to the large e r me too movement. The question is did it affect the jury in any way. The other thing that happened yesterday was that the jury came back and they wanted to know what consent means. You cant have aggravated Sexual Assault in a consensual relationship so the jury i think appropriately was struggling with that decision. In the end, no one knows but cosby and constand what went on and they want to make sure that they use the appropriate predicate because this is a criminal case and, you know, with all the attention weve been giving it, in the end are, youre looking at someones liberty. There is also a part of this that involves celebrity and there was a lot of conversation about this, for example, well, any number of trials, but o. J. Simpso simpsons probably the biggest one we all recall about whether or not the celebrity, the knowledge of who he was, the pleasure you get from somebody when he scores a touchdown or makes you laugh, how old you are, do you remember the cosby show perhaps. Im sure in your experience, and i used to cover a lot of local trials, jurors take things very seriously. They try to push aside as the judge asked them to all those outside things and yet is that does that play a role . Look, we can never discount it. People are human beings. So one possible bias would be bias in favor of cosby. Another thing the prosecution, forgive me, the defense really hammered this time, more strongly than they did the first time, was attacking the credibility of constand. They let loose. In a way, its unclear jurors in the me too aftermath would appreciate that and take it seriously or find it a little heavy handed. That could influence the outcome too. I think theres always this tricky part of victim blaming, right . That where do you go with that. On the other hand, what other option do you have except to say shes lying . Defense lawyers say its not victim blaming, its just laying out for the jury there could be credibility issues. The defense will say its their obligation as part of a zealous, you know, representation of their client to cast aspersions and the prosecution will say thats victim blaming. There are three counts here of aggravated indecent assault. If convicted, cosby faces a fine of up to 25,000 each. Of the three counts. And each carries a maximum sense of ten years. Could they come back with guilty on one . Are this likely to take all three as one . Well, as i understand it, each count specifies a different reason for the assault. Either constand was unable to consent because of pills she took. They may split the difference and choose one of them. Thats a significant loss of liberty. Cosby could die in prison if hes convicted. During the trial, prosecutors revealed for the first time he paid her 3. 8 million. This was a civil settlement back in 2006. Again, trying to put yourself in the minds of a jury is a very, very dangerous business. Having said that, how strong an argument is that . It depends on what argument you make. You could see an argument being made this is an example and i think cosbys lawyers tried to lay that out of a woman whos looking for money. Look, it was payday number one when she made the civil settlement. Lets take another tack of that. Maybe the size of that settlement could be seen as a mark of the severity of what happened to constand. Theres also i think a larger question here and i dont want to put too much weight on this. One of the things the me too movement produced whether we saw with weinstein or matt lauer is that now there are consequences, right, and in this case, were talking about decades old, you know, same thing with Harvey Weinstein and some of the others that have happened. But in the larger sort of sociological impact, how closely do you think people are watching this, particularly someone who may be in a situation where theyve considered whether or not to take action . You know, very closely. And you have what many women think of as a very brave person, Andrea Constand, coming forward not once, but twice, under tremendous scrutiny. Notice one of the issues is she was the only claimed victim whose evidence took place in the right amount of time to even bring a claim and a lot of rem, a lot of activists, think those timebarred claims should be allowed in, there shouldnt be such a short time period to muster up the courage to come forward if something terrible happened to you. I want to go back to something. P you said. Were watching this video. As bill cosby has walked into the courthouse before. Hes been hanging on to somebody. His health is not good. His eyesight may be all but gone. And you also do wonder if that plays a role. For example, is its different to give somebody ten years or 20 years or 30 years if theyre 25 or 30 years old than if youre bill cosbys age which happens to be 80 as you said. Of course, theres no reason not to convict someone because theyre old or young. They either committed the crime and it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt or it wasnt. But for sure hes striking a sympathetic position in court. His wife has shown up at his side. Hes got spokesperson outside the courtroom every day pleading his case. Thats perfectly fair. But all of that has meant to influence the jury beyond the letter of the law. What else are jurors experiencing . Whether its memory of reruns of the show or a feeling of horror that someone they once respected might have been responsible for criminal behavior. When it comes down to it and you have all those other factors that people, again, legitimately may consider whether subliminally or, you know, they just cant push it out of their lets go to ron allen and see what we know about when we might actually get an announcement on this verdict. What can you tell us, ron . Well, we know the parties are all in court now. They were told to be there at ii 1 30. We believe there is, according to the d. A. s office theres a verdict. Which suggesting either acquittal or guilt. All class b felonies. All carrying ten years in jail as the maximum sentence. It could be concurrent or it could be consecutive. The jury has deliberated for now 11 hours late last night and through today. The last questions they asked were for a reread of the testimony of Marguerite Jackson who was the star witness for the defense. She is the woman, Temple University employee who says Andrea Constand, the plaintiff, told her essentially a story many years ago that constant said she could figure out a way to essentially make up a story about a celebrity attacking her and get some money. And that theres something the jury did hear. They listened to that testimony. The the other testimony they wanted to hear was cosbys own words, an interview by a police officer, where cosby explained. Interestingly, essentially, cosby says this was the third time he and constand had been together in an intimate situation. He describes this whole thing as a consensual romantic relationship that had been going on for some years. He admits that there was some penetration digitally and he says that essentially this was consensual. He described another encounter weeks before where constand told him to stop and he stopped. So essentially saying the defense is saying there was this implied content. There were two adults who had been doing things like this before and thats how they seemed to get around this notion of consent because clearly there was no clear stated consent by Andrea Constand according to any testimony we heard. Again, some of this is still just reading tea leaves. We have no idea which way the jury is going. You could look at the questions theyve asked, the testimony theyve heard, and suggest it ugs either a guilty verdict or acquittal. The bottom line is who does the jury believe. Do they believe constand. Do they believe bill cosby. They just tell very different stories. In constands words, she was given medication on the night in question, she was unconscious, she was not able to control her body, she does not know what happened. She woke up and she felt she had been violated. Cosby, again, says this was a conscienensual relationship. There are other things going on around the courtroom. The me too movement. The five other women accusers who testified in this trial and not the first trial. Do they believe constand or bill cosby . It has been a very aggressive emotional dramatic testimony. The defense has caused constand a pathological liar. The prosecutors have accused the defense of character assassination and the way they went after constand and the way they went after the five other women who are accusers of bill cosby, whose cases are too old to be brought before a criminal court. So again a lot of very powerful testimony. A lot of emotion. The trial lasted about two weeks. Almost about the same length of the first one. The dynamic this time was very, very different. It was essentially bill cosby against these six accusers, Andrea Constand and these five other women. The defense in closing arguments said theyd address that issue head on. They said mob rule as they called it referring to the me too movement is not due process and they told the jury to look at this case on its own merits and not be persuaded by whats going on out there in the world. Tell me a little bit about the jury and the reason i asked ages in particular, for people who may be younger, they may not understand the role that bill cosby played in american popular culture. His show was enormous. Even before he had a tv show, he was one of the most popular and, by the way, clean comedians, i will readily say, in our household, we had records, back then there were records, we played them over and over and over again and laughed every time. This is somebody who was a super star. Not the hyper bolic sense of the word but in the truest sense of the word. When a lot of this was taking place. Tell us about the jury and what the ages of jurors . There are some younger people but they seem to skew to the middle age, if i could use the term, or older. Theres seven men, five women. Two africanamericans, man and woman, amongst that group of 12. Their common occupations, we believe theres a nurse, we believe theres an emt. We dont know a lot about them because the court has gone out of its way to protect their identity because of all the attention thats been on this case. Youre absolutely right. I remember bill cosby from playing those records, too, fat albert, all that, the cosby kids. You sit there and you watch bill cosby in court, he is a very diminished figure and thats putting it mildly. Think of whats happened to him over the past number of years. The honorary degrees taken away. His name essentially removed from popular culture. The shows taken often the air. He is not welcomed. Hes a disgraced figure in a very profound way. And worth mentioning, many of those things you talk about happened before the me too movement. I mean, those degrees that were taken away, the standup, you know, shows that were canceled, that was before the Harvey Weinsteins. Exactly. Its hard to say to what extent the me too movement plays into this. To be clear, a lot of legal analysts have pointed out this is a tough case for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Its 14 years old. This happened some time ago, back in 2004. There have been there was another hung jury. The jury is aware in 2005 another District Attorney declined to take this case because he didnt think the evidence was strong enough. Constand most experts will tell you has not been the consistent in all the many statements she has made to police and the courts over the year, over this time period. Now, a lot of experts will tell you this is because shes a tom titzed victim, traumatized victim of a Sexual Assault and she should not be expected to be in a consistent manner all the time. Theres so many complications to this case, so many layers to this case, you have to wonder what else the jury might be influenced by beyond what they heard in the courtroom. Let me go back to danny ce cevallos. Im sorry, kate snow is standing by. Kate are you on location there . No, im here in new york. Youre in new york. What have you got . Ive covered this for a long time, this story of bill cosby and the allegations against him which of course hes the story cosby and the allegations against him which he has always denied. You may remember that we did a special on dateline back in 2015 where we talked to 27 women in one room who all accused him. Chris, i can tell you that i just spoke with one of them on the phone. Shes watching, shes waiting, and they are incredibly nervous. She says shes worried kate, i have to interrupt you. Bill cosby has been found guilty guilty on all three counts of aggravated indecent assault against Andrea Constand. The jury just coming back. Count 1, aggravated indecent assault without her consent while she was unconscious or unaware. That, of course, speaks to her claim that he had drugged her, that she was unable to really even know what was going on. Count 3, while she was intoxicated or drugged. Bill cosby now faces a fine of up to 25,000 for each of the three counts, and each count carries a maximum sentence of ten years. Well, it is a triumph for the prosecution and they surely understood what ron was speaking about earlier. This is an old case. It was a he said she said case. The last time they tried they ended in a mistrial but this time i think the difference was more women were able to tell their stories. If you look back as we were just discussing about the jury what they looked at, they looked at cosbys old testimony. He admitted these behaviors had happened and had an excuse. The jury didnt buy that excuse. Danny cevallos . Im in this courthouse in norristown. I can tell you aggravated indecent assault. It means the jury found that there was an absence of consent, that she was impaired, and that she was unconscious. And in a case like this, the maximum may be ten years. But realistically speaking, at sentencing, bill cosby is looking in the range of 22 months, somewhere around there. But the guidelines certainly call for incarceration. So the person that we once knew as americas dad will be heading in to one of americas prisons, specifically a Pennsylvania State correctional facility, in all likelihood. Youve been inside that courthouse before. Help us understand what happens next and the argument that his side could make to reduce the maximum. Reporter well, its very unlikely that bill cosby would get the maximum in this case because hes what we call a zero in pennsylvania. Hes got no prior criminal record thats significant for sentencing purposes, at least as far as i know. So that, plus you can expect that his attorneys will put on a show about all of the good will and all of the charitable works that bill cosby has done over the years. Theyll make the strongest argument for the absolute lowest end of the guidelines, which could fall below 22 months given the pennsylvania sentencing guidelines matrix. But in this case, in this courthouse, this is one of easily one of the biggest cases this vows has ever seen in a somewhat suburban suburb of philadelphia that i know well, this is a very, very big verdict for this part of pennsylvania. And a stunning, absolutely stunning turn, for a man who was once one of the most beloved dads probably in the history of television, a beloved comedian. Incre incredibly rich and famous. It is one thing to take away a mans standup bookings, to take away his honorary degrees. It is another thing to take away his freedom. Ron allen is outside the courthouse. What are you seeing and hearing from there . Reporter well, chris, there is a question now of what happens now. Cosby is free on bail. Weve been asking the District Attorney what will happen if he is convicted. It is unclear whether the judge will revoke that bail. And if that happens, he could be on his way to jail almost immediately. There is the prosecution is likely to argue that cosby is a flight risk. He has his own private plane. He can go anywhere in the country or anywhere in the world. So there is an argument for putting him right in jail. We dont know whether that will happen or not. His defense is obviously going to try to appeal this. They have said that and they will try to do that almost immediately. Just to follow up what you were saying earlier, i think the big difference in this case was in fact the five additional accusers, the five women who came in and told their story. And they sounded so much like the story of Andrea Constand was saying. In the summation, the prosecutor kept saying, sound familiar . Sound familiar . Cosby had an m. O. They called him a con. This was his con. He would befriend women, earn their trust, take them to his home, invite them to his home. Mentor them. At some point intoxicate them with alcohol, quaaludes, medications, drugs, in this case benadryl. And then take advantage of them. Or dumb womyoung women. One woman this happened in her 20s. These were young aspiring models in holed wlywood at the time wh cosby was one of the most powerful men in show business. Andrea constands case was, might want to say one of the weaker cases, but it is the only one the criminal Justice System could handle. But one witness in particular claimed cosby raped her. That is what this jury was listening to for two weeks. It was very passionate. It was very emotional. In the summation, the d. A. , a young woman, made a point at one point, cosby was sort of smoking. He had a almost laughing, had a bemused look on his face. And she strolled over to him and pointed her finger at him and said, this is not funny mr. Cosby. He thinks it is funny. This is not funny. It was just an incredible moment in the courtroom. The courtroom was just agasp. Again, you have to believe the jury was just so moved by the passion of these women. And found them, ron i mean because this was, as lisa pointed out, this is about credibility. And this was not just about Andrea Constand, i would argue, her credibility. It was about the credibility, as you say, of this whole string of women who showed that there was a pattern here, who showed that the man that a lot of people thought they knew was in fact somebody very different when he wasnt on television. Our legal analyst katy phang is on the phone with us. I want to ask you about as a matter of course, his legal team will immediately file appeal, but on what grounds is the question, number one. And whats the likelihood that, given now were at a second trial, the jury came back very clearly about what they believed, whats the chances do you see for an appeal here . So there are material differences between the first trial that ended up being a hung jury last year and this second retrial. One of the biggest differences is the fact that there was five additional victims, in addition to Andrea Constand, that were permitted by judge oneal to be able to testify about their similar experiences with bill cosby. As a result, that could be one of the substantive legal grounds for purposes of an appeal. In the meantime, mr. Cosbys been out on bail. You do have to post what you call a superseding bond, meaning you have to post a bond to ensure that you stay out of custody while an appeal is pending, if thats where they go. But another major difference is, you heard about the 3. 4 million settlement. And that was another big difference. So there is a few things that could be grounds for an appeal. Well see whether or not he does it. If he does, hes 80 years old. Even sentencing on one of those counts could be literally he comes out of prison in a body bag because he dies in prison. So it is going to be important to see whether or not they fight hard to keep him out of custody. Lisa, what do you see happening next . I mean one hesitates to draw very large conclusions from a single case but how can you not . This is a verdict in this era where it will enable a lot of women to have their voices heard. It is a rebuke perhaps to the prosecutions attempt to really dust up and damage the credibility of the women who spoke. They were really, really harsh and it just didnt work. I want to get final thoughts, if i can, from danny cevallos. What do you see happening next . Reporter i think were going to see an appeal. Not immediately. Procedurally. Thats going to come shortly. There are appealable issues in this case. The faq that five additional women, more than last year, in which the judge allowed one woman to testify about what we attorneys call prior bad acts. That is a very, very contested issue, and it is an appealable issue. And i think it is one that cosby it will probably be the chief issue on appeal, that among many others that his Defense Attorneys will raise. But we will see what he raises in his appeal. We will also see at sentencing a real show where the attorneys demonstrate to the judge that this is a man for whom the sentencing guidelines, the judge should go below the sentencing guidelines, and to the maximum extent possible, the minimum amount of time in prison. Danny, lisa, katy, ron, thank you so much for your onthespot reporting and analysis. Thats going to do it for me. Im chris jansing. Katy tur in washington, d. C. On a day when bill cosby has been found guilty on all three charges of Sexual Assault. Katy . Groundbreaking news, chris jansing. Thank you very much. 11 00 a. M. Out west and 2 krk p. M. In pennsylvania where again we are following breaking news. The jury has handed down a guilty verdict in bill cosbys Sexual Assault trial. Cosby has been found guilty on all three counts against him. All involved crimes against one woman, Andrea Constand. In this retrial, cosby has faced three counts of aggravated indecent assault, each carrying up to ten years in prison. These counts again all involve just one woman. You may know that many, many, many women have accused bill cosby of sexual misconduct, everything from inappropriate touching to rape