Side what happened with nunez about o and trying to unnature unmasking with the Serious Investigation into russias role, put more pressure on chairman burr or if he always would have handled himself that way. But i thought that the republican and the democrat chademocratchair mennen set a professional tone for the hearing. Are we just passed over 1 00 p. M. Eastern time. Weve had the morning session. What happens in the afternoon with Senate Intelligence committee and mr. Comey will stay in the room where he talks to members. Were supposed to hear from the president s personal attorney a bit of a rebuttal from his side as the president remains at an event in washington, d. C. We have a bit of a review prepared of some of the moments we witnessed in this hearing. And before we get there, ari melber, same question, who did you think kind of broke through among members of the committee . I thought senator widen broke through in the back and forth getting real details out there. I thought senator burr did well. And this hearing was an example of what positive or constructive congressional oversight can look like because it didnt feel like two hearings and two sets of facts. There was some disagreements and more emphasis on the clinton his case and yet that also revealed thing bes because it was interested to hear jim comey criticize lore receipt that lynch how she was pressuring him to call what he thought was an investigation a, quote, matter. But that was on the margins. I thought overall the senators in both parties looked like they were interested in the facts, interested in russia and interested in digging into the story that comey told. Best team in washington standing by to react to all of this. But first as promised some of what director comey had to say in this hearing. Honestly concerned that he might lie about the nature of our meeting and so i thought it really important to document. That combination of things, id never experienced before. But it led me to believe i got to write it down and in a very detailed way. All right. That was comey until he reached a freeze frame at the end. Do we have another bit of his testimony . Not yet. Nicolle wallace. Well, i think that youre already seeing i just looked down because i thought there would be more tape. But as weve all been talking about, i mean, i think that what the white house will seize on and what is interesting, Marc Kasowitz didnt represent the whole campaign or the bhous. He is simply the personal attorney of the president. And he hired kasowitz at the urging of his soninlaw and other friends inside and outside of the white house who said you may have an exposure here now that comey is talking. George w. Bush had private counsel because it is the white house counsels job to defend the white house as an institution. So the fact that were hearing from kasowitz in response to comey is a bit of a mismatch because it suggests that they worried about the president s personal legal equities. And i think a more appropriate response might be a white house spons Response Response or doj response. Jim comey talked about how it was the entire american government, not democrats or republican, not trump or clinton, but that the country came under attack by russia. And the fact that they are not prepared in any sort of elevated manner to respond to that or to say, hey, we are as interested as jim comey was in getting to the bottom of russias role in the 2016 election. That to me is at best a missed opportunity and at worst another political mis. Caller could ymiscalled cou you lags. But nothing on twitter from the president for many hours now. But not from his son. Do we have the donald jr. We dont. Lets go to more of the comey testimony right now from the hearing. This is not fake news. The administration then chose to defame me and more importantly the fbi. By saying that the organization was this disarray. That it was poorly led. That the workforce had lost confidence in its leader. Those were lies plain and simple. Did the president at anytime ask you to stop the fbi investigation into russian involvement in about tthe 2016 elections . Not to my understanding. I dont think its for me to say whether the conversation was an effort to obstruct are. I took it as concerning, but that is a conclusion im sure the special counsel will work towards to understand the intention there and whether that is an offense. What was it about that meeting that led you to determine that you needed to start putting down a written record . A combination of things. I think the circumstances, the subject matter and the person i was interacting with. And then the nature of the person. I was honestly concerned that he might lie about the nature of our meeting. He did not direct you to let it go. Not in his wrordords, no. I took it as a direction. This is the president of the United States with me alone saying i hope this. I took it as this is what he wants me to do. Why do you believe you were fired . I guess i dont know fo sure. I take the president at word that i was fired because of the russia investigation. A significant fact to me is so why did he kick everybody out of the oval office. Why would you kick the attorney general, the president , chief of staff, out to talk to me if it was about Something Else . He said how about 6 30. And i said whatever works for you, sir. And then i hung up and had to call my wife and break a date with her, i was supposed to take her out to dinner that night. Thats one of the alltime great excuses. When a president of the United States in the oval office says Something Like i hope or i suggest or would you, to you take that as a directive . Yes. It rings in my ear that will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest. Chris matthew, its really something to hear it all together back to back there. And what a portrait it paints of jim comey and trump. Its a character difference. The president is imaginative in how he portrays reality. He will come up with references that dont make any sense, but he gets around with it politically. Doem iscomey is a man of neat ne taking and honesty and who tried to trim his relationship with with the president there. He wouldnt really challenge him as so many people have said, why didnt you challenge him, try to take himle do down. He was trying to finesse the meeting and i understand that. Once youve been inside the politics, you know the need to finesse relationships. You cant just confront people all the time even though you know you were right. And i think comey believes he was right in every case. But i go back to the missing piece. Russian investigation, it seems like comey was excusing the president from at least technically saying he wasnt a target of the investigation although he said my lead investigation gait toor thought insisted that we should say he was part of the targeting of the investigation. At the same time saying, well irks flynn wasnt involved either and if there is anybody else involved like a manafort or someone else, they could be thrown under the bus because they were satellite material. So where was the there there . He knew there was a big deal here. He knew there was something related to that big deal from the americans side and he never said it. And i think that is a question. What is the missing piece, the heart of what is assumed to be under the theory of russian problem here from the american side. And we dont know what it is after all these hours. I think one of the things that comey made clear is that the reason they started talking oneonone alone in rooms together was around the dossier which was the salacious material. Heck of a way to get to know somebody be. Their relationship is super awkward and it started with the most awkward kind of briefing. He was so lets remind everybody what this was. Before he was inaugurated you can the intel chiefs, and there was a whole lot of fanfare around this first interaction with the Intel Community because donald trump had been engaged with a hot war with his own until community. And they were talking about how perilous that was to have been engaged in a war with his Intelligence Committee. So all the intel chiefs went to trump tower and they gave him this first i think it was one of the first briefings. He had started getting briefed on some foreign policy. That kind intelligence. But this was his first formal briefing by all the intel chiefs. And at the end of it, comey stayed behind to say, you knonk one more thing. He got the short straw and he had to brief him about reallyicky stuff that was out there about him that was not corroborated by the fbi. It was just intel matter. And it involved really salacious personal stuff. Donald trump flew into a fit of rage when another network, not this one, reported some of those details. He had been made aware of it by the Intel Community just on the sort of are grounds of hey, this is out there. And it had fallen to comey to tell him about it and we learned from comeys testimony that one of the first things trump asked him to do that he felt icky about, he had asked comey to get more information about it. And this is where you first begin to learn that comey light bulbs are going off in comeys head about just how uneducated the president was in the matters of appropriate lines of responsibility, appropriate conduct for a president and his intel agencies, a president and his Law Enforcement officials. And i think advice making this big point about what about russia. Donald trump is not a master of the big picture. He doesnt view himself a keeper of americas sort of the sanctity of our democracy. He was worried about the crud in that dossier about him. And a key part of this is it also according to the comey testimony illustrates the president s not only misunderstanding, but his view of these institutions as his personal objects. He asked what if could dispruov this, as if they are a personal private eye under your retainer. And its not. But they seem to think air force one is their plane and the white house is their house and the fbi is their security arm. Its not. And so there are fundamental stuff here that according to comeys view started out as a question over teaching ignorance information and turned in to comeys concern that this was an effort to meddle into the drought come of the investigation and thats he says why he was fired. And Pete Williams has been watching and listening obviously every word of this testimony. Pete, two questions for you. Number one, what were the areas where you said, well, thats new, we did not know that before. And what were the areas where you said that will leave a mark. Are in terms of what is new, there are two reasons why a lot of the events themselves werent new, one is because mr. Comey apparently made the decision that his prepared testimony should be made public yesterday and that had the effect of sort of setting the table so that members can sort off from that and it didnt bog down in dates and times and who said what to whom when. And the second reason is that some of this had been previously reported. And we now know why or at least i can now say publicly what some of the behind the scenes reporting was. Fripd friends of mr. Comey had been putting out the word on some of these things especially now we know professor dan richmond from columbia was basically advised by mr. Comey to call a reporter New York Times and walk them through what was in the memo about his meeting, his dinner at the white house where he was asked about loyalty. And then the Oval Office Meeting where he was asked cant you flynn is a good man, cant you let it go. So for those two reasons, a lot of it wasnt strikingly new. The things that will leave a mark are of course the big obstruction question and what the members werent factoring in, they were looking more at sort of the thing that the president said to mr. Comey at the time, would that be obstruction. But of course what bob mueller will have to factor this is all of that plus the fact that the president fired mr. Comey and that is another factor that you would look at in terms of trying to influence you an investigation which is what the definition of obstruction is. Although ultimately the decision about whether anything should be done about it is a political one, not a legal one, for the reasons that jim comey steketch out today. Hes not going to be charged with a crime glp and you often dont hear someone say in effect, yeah, i liked it through a. Frid of mine, i wanted the papers to get it. Very candid. And james comey is a lot of things. Naive about his public image is not one of them. And so that is i think why he did that and i think that is why he wanted the statement out yesterday so that the hearing could it was an attempt i think, certainly legitimate one, to kind of shape how the hearing would go by getting the sort of details out yesterday, and then the hearing can go into the forward looking issues about what do we do about it. Pete williams, thank you so much. Ill ask the control room the little picture were running in the right hand corner, lets show what is going on in that room. Were going to hear from the president s lawyer. You may get the distinct impression he will speak to us from the National Press club. You would be right. But this is the personal lawyer of the president , not the white house counsel. There is a difference. You will hear that difference when he starts speaking. Andrea mitchell has been watching with us. Your thoughts. First of all, i think that there is something very human about this. I think that the political figures, bloggers on both sides will pick over the legalisms. There were plenty of questions from senator collins, senator feinstein and others about why didnt you just say this is not appropriate and leave the oval office. And he said im not captain courageous. He was clearly intimidated and there was human side to this. I think he did come across as being a flawed person. An honest broker who was trying to steer a very difficult situation. And if anybody be wins out of this today, it is the Senate Intelligence committee. In that contrast to the house, alough the house is trying to get back on message and back in to its nonpartisan bipartisan role, the Intelligence Committee in the senate has a long stoerd career of being a nonpartisan working group that works behind closed doors and doesnt leak to the press. And the fact is that they showed themselves burr and warner show showed themselves work together. And senator burr really set the tone and for the most part the questions were on target. They will disagree about whether as Kamala Harris says if youre a robber and you have a gun to your head and he says i hope youll give me your wallet, that is why jim comey felt from the president of the United States that he felt directed. That he did feel pressured. Others will point to the fact that the president said i hope you will jop drop this t flynn investigation, hes a good guy. People will pick over every word. But overall i think james comey came across as a straight arrow, as a man who 4has been controversial in the past, but at least always tries do the right thing. Andrea might be be he will in our Washington Bureau where she watched all of this with us. Greta van susteren was in the room where it hatch it happened. What was the point john mccain was trying to narrow in on at the end . I dont know. He was at the far end of the room so ill take a pass on that. I know there was lot of controversy over what he was saying, but by that time most people were packing unand tp an audio was not good. But i do think it was interesting how the witness, mr. Comey, threw two attorney generals under the bus. He said there is something he couldnt tell publicly, but there was another reason why he didnt trust Loretta Lynch and why he had go public with the july 5th press conference. So do. And he brought up the issue that she wantsded him to say matter, not investigation. But he also threw attorney general Jeff Sessions under the bus with when he said that there was something that he was going to recuse himself and there was Something Else that he couldnt say out in the open. But for me listening to the testimony today, we didnt learn anything particularly knew, but what was important is that we were hearing it from the source, no the through an Anonymous Sources or leaks or friends of jim comey. But do you believe james comey or do you believe the president of the United States. And thats why yesterday was profoundly important. Two people, coates and rogers would not answer the question essentially were you ever pressured by President Trump to do something. And why that would have been so important to me as a viewer is that that would give me some ability, that would tend to corroborate what i think was comeys testimony today is that he felt pressured by the president. So if these two who are essentially very similar positions to the president , if about they said yes,t did happen or it never happened, that might tend to krob bracorr in my mind whether comey is just someone who is disgruntled or whether the president really is putting pressure on him to do something. But just looking at the words today, i dont think he changed a single persons view. I dont think the Trump Supporters changed their mind a i dont think peenl wople who d like trump changed their mind. But now we have to figure out what do the words mean and thats why those two yesterday refusing to answer those questions without any lawful excuse for refusing to answer those questions, we pay them, there is oversight by the senate intel committee, and the president hadnt asserted executive privilege, they refused to and now senator rubio is saying at the declined to go behind closed doors to answer those questions. But thats how i look at it. And because about it all comn to politics, the question you pose will be so interesting especially given the poll numbers we have just reported in the last 24 hours. The president underwater this category after category. The base when you go to the base and its he said he said, comey or donald trump, that is the interesting question. And if you were in the courtroom, which we are not, but if you were in the courtroom is that you would consider it a tie today because we have a set of words that are essentially neutral until you interpret them. And if its pressure by the president of the United States to shut down an investigation, that is incredible. If on the other hand even like senator marco rubios testimony, the most damning thing about let flynn go or hes a nisz gce guy something, and that was said to james comey, but then the next day President Trump says that publicly. So all of a sudden it sort of takes the luster out of that as being some sort of heavy handed aspect of the president. So we are only at the beginning. And were trying to piece it together. And it makes what you we werent there. If there are tapes, great. Fantastic. Information we have information from coates or from rogers that would corroborate the president s m. O. , whether or not he indeed tries do something heavy handed that is improper or not. But if you were in the courtroom today and were not in a courtroom, this was not a particularly painful day for the president. In the beginning of an investigation, yes, it is because there is certainly good reason to continue with this investigation because we do need to get to the bottom of it. Greta, thanks. Well be watching you tonight. Back to former federal prosecute toward paul butler. Paul, what do you think about the Trump Defense today . Well, his defenses have been, one, im ignorant, not malici s malicious, that is i didnt know about washington ways. When asked about that, comey said thats true, why when he reached out to me to drop the investigation did he not only exclude the Vice President of the United States, not only dismissed my boss the attorney general, but then when everyone was out ofhe room comey said trump noticed his chief staff Reince Priebus and Jared Kushner peeking in worried and he closed the door. If youre doing something on the up and up or if youre ignorant, you dont close the door. The other part his defense is, well, i hope that you drop the investigation is not an order. And i think senator Kamala Harris eviscerate that had defense when she said if a robber is pointing a gun at you and says i hope you give me the money, that is not a request. What trump used was not a gun but a job. An fbi directorship which he consistently dangled over comeys head and trump had repeatedly promised the job was his in a different context about the investigation, comeys job was it no longer a sure thing unless he did what the president ordered. Paul, thank you. Matt miller comey admitted to a couple times failing in the moment. What did you make of that . I thought that was a way for him to explain what were hard questions about why he didnt report some of these inprotect contacts to others. Inappropriate contacts. But i thought the answers we got were pretty tough for sessions and rosenstein. And one of the key moments was with respect to the president doesnt maybe understand the institutions. There are supposed to be people that can strain him and one is Jeff Sessions. And apparently when jim are comey went to Jeff Sessions and said dont leave me in about a room with him again, sessions just kind of looked at him and comey said sessions thought what am i going to do. And we gent a ldidnt get a lot detail but he said i briefed rosenstein about the same concerns a week or two before he said youre out of here. So it raises questions about what rosenstein and sessions were doing in signing off on that firing and i think also helps answer the question that comey says he enkurnlgtsed tenkurnlgtcouraged to be leaked. One way to interpret that, hes an gri are a an gri and wants r. Doesnt look great for jim comey. The other explanation is that he knows hes reported his concerns to Jeff Sessions and to Rod Rosenstein. Rod rosenstein is the person conduct being this investigation and he just are fired me and now hes concerned that the investigation wont go forward without a special counsel. And according to testimony, fired jim doem for ocomey for o only, he was too mean to Hillary Clinton, which jim comey says was never raised by Rod Rosenstein or attorney general sessions or the president. So the one reason for his firing was never raised by the three people ostensibly involved in the firing. It didnt make sense becau it dont appear to be wholly true. And to read again because i think the words are so powerful, this is jim comeys words about whether there was something wrong wheith the president bein so secretive in their meeting, and he says even after he began speaking about this, Reince Priebus leaned in through the door by the grandfather clock and the president waved at him to close the door saying hed be done shortly you can be and then three words. The door closed. This is that writing style of jim comey. Words. The door closed. This is that writing style of jim comey. I think some will find it overly dramatic, but it is the story of a man not so i go authorize rant that he doesnt understand washington abobut a man so focu that he knows when to get in the room alone. I have a story about that grandfather clock, too. I almost knocked it over once. But i keep thinking about because these news psych be kems are so competent competeabout d. I think comeys testimony raised new planks in the stories about flynn by saying he was definitely in legal jeopardy, and about criminal jeopardy. And about sessions. And he seemed aware and unwilling to speak in an open session of exactly why sessions recused himsf. He seemed to know what the there there is. And weve heard reporting about the president s views about sessions, that he stewed for months about sessions recusing himself from the russia investigation. Im not aware of the time that he stewed. But i, too, am aware that hes not happy that sessions recused himself from the russia investigation because he views that as the original sin, the thing that led rosenstein to take over. That is the cause of all his troubles. Right. And rosensteins memo being held on the north lawn for sure row s who blamed mueller. So if i could swap out kasowitz for an attorney for flynn or sessions today, im more interested in about hearing how their personal attorneys or their personal spokespeople would respond to the revelations from comey on the actions or perhaps exposure or legal equities that those two men have today. As i said, the term skiff is relatively new to our vocabulary, standing for sensitive compartmented information facility. Kasie hunt is outside in the hallway where members of the committee are heading into a scif. They can be the size of a containized ship or they can be the size of a small room. They can be a small hearing room that has been hardened. It just means that nothing can go to the outside world. So part two of the hearing is in this protected room and i know that you have been talking to members as they have gone by. Reporter thats right. And i should point out were still actually behind us. So the scif is through the wall that you see over my shoulder, this very pretty hallway here. Many of the senators have been coming out the back way, there was a huge pack of reporters here. We are all that is left. But i did catch up with senator marco rubio who 1spoke for some length. He wanted to elaborate on what came across in the hearing. His posture today in the hearing ever different toward the administration than it was in those contentious hearings yesterday with intelligence chiefs. And some people did take note of that. And when senator rubio came out to talk to reporters, he was notably more skeptical than he seemed when you saw him question jim comey. Take a look. I think its clear that the president was frustrated by the investigation, by the cloud, and he was frustrated by it. Particularly frustrated by the idea that he was not under investigation and no one was out there saying it. And it was probably a very bad idea for him to ask comey and others potentially to do that. Well have to learn more about it. Not criminal, but probably a bad idea. On the issue of the Oval Office Meeting regarding general flynn, that should not have happened. The president should not have made that request. I wish someone, whether director comey or someone else, had explained to him why he cant do that. And thats obviously something that will be further discussed. And i think it boils down t this, is this the actions of someone who was putting together a plan to impede an investigation or is this a nonpolitician unconventional figure who simply operates in ways that are different from previous president s and no one has either informed him or hes been unwilling to be informed about why can the sort of request can like the one he made would be inappropriate. Reporter i followed up with senator rubio by asking if this is the case, if the president is simply unaware of all these bro protocols, does that excuse what happened. Rubio said no, it does not. So of course as you light point out, the senators have he had willed into this secure compartmentalized information facility, where we stand outside basically once a week now because they have the regular intelligence meetings in that room, its part of why you saw jim comey towering over the reporters around him because there is no other way to get there be sides walking right past our camera everyone week here on a regular basis. So of course you heard quite a bit from all these stores about what they wanted to hear in that classified closed session. If i were a betting person, id say we wont hear very much when they come out, but we certainly will give it a shot. Kasie hunt, we appreciate the coverage from the hallway outside the scif. We are joined now by a member of the house Intelligence Committee. Subject of a lot of talk and not for the greatest reasons. Democrat from california. Congressman, your feelings about what you saw from the senate si side. Does it exist as a contrast to the work that has been going or will it be perhaps a motivator . Good afternoon. What we saw today is that the president commanded loyalty, he wanted the case against his friend mike be and he will flch and he obsessively hounded the fbi director about lifting the cloud. What we want is an honest investigation that did make progress where the president no longer is interfering in it. He clearly was interfering with the fbi directors investigation. Weve seen him interfere with the house investigation. And so we just wasnt to tell th American People what happened, whether any u. S. Persons were spor responsible and make reforms. Only way to do that is if the president stops tweeting, does the work he needs to do for the american about people and let us report back. You guys at the same time have issues on your committee. And can you assure the American People that your committee will fly right and your committee will play it down the middle and was this a model for your behavior . Yes, brian. And the issues that youre referring to were created by the president. The president had our former chairperson come over to the white house on and then take intelligence back to a press conference and then he went the next day to the white house and blew up our investigation. Fortunately mike conaway has stepped in on to preside over the investigation. He works very well with adam schiff and were making progress today. Just want the president to say away from our investigation, to not repeat what he did with director comey or what he did in the past with our committee. So what will you do differently, what would you like to do differently after he seeing what transpired on the senate side today . We want to listen to all relevant witnesses. We want them to honor the invitation that we have extended. We want to review all the documents. So if we sent a witness a subpoena or an invitation, that also means to provide us documents. Allow us to question them in a public setting to the degree we can. And then make a report to the American People about what happened. But right now, the cost of the chaos that the president has created is it is affecting not just or ability to conduct the investigation, but all the other work that were supposed to be doing so people can put food on their table, a roof over their head or provide opportunities for their kids. So we just want to get back to work here. This is nicolle wallace. Have you asked mike flynn to come testify before your committee as well as attorney general sessions . We have asked mike flynn. As to other witnesses, i wont comment on that. But it is naub we sepublic that subpoena to Michael Flynn to testify. And would you consider adding attorney general sessions to the list after hearing former director comeys testimony that he specifically asked never to be left alone with donald trump because he was uncomfortable or because the way that those meetings have been going made him uncomfortable . Did sessions become more important to your committees work today . Well, our invitation list is a list of relevant witnesses. And thats all ill say. But does he become relevant if he was an instrument of this president doing something to the direct to have the fbi th director, that he did not want to be alone with donald trump and based on the testimony today, Jeff Sessions knew that. Jeff sessions failed to dos clo disclose at least twice contacts with the russian ambassador. He was part of the firing of jas comey. Hes on tense pli w s on tenosteg made to Christopher Wray yesterday. So we dont believe he should be in addition near the russia investigation and there are still serious questions about what his role was with russia, its ambassador during the interference of the campaign. So will you add him to the list or are you saying you wont or youre not going to tell me . I cant tell you who is on the list. Got it. Thank you. Sounds like maybe you should add him to the list. Is that something you would consider . I cant tell you if he is or is not already on the list. Okay. I got it. Glad to see you getting along. Congressman, thank you very much to making us a part afternoon. I guess my point is we sflou more information about sessions role and i think what comey made clear is that there isnt just a little thing. It wasnt a paperwork error. His recusal from the russia investigation was over something material to the russia investigation. If i understand everything that i heard today. And we also know that the director of the fbi said to him this wasnt about mens feelings which i feel like ive heard a lot about, but this was the director of the fbi asking him do not leave me alone with the president and sessions whatever the response, he was not able to protect the director of the fbi from a pretty extraordinary reque request. We also know the director of the fbi when told that he hoped he would drop the investigation into Michael Flynn felt that it was direction. So i think that the attorney general has extraordinary exposure that we didnt know about 12 hours ago. One of the outcomes of this hearing i think is it that the russia cloud that the president has talked about has also moved on to the attorney generals head now. There is a russia cloud hanging over Jeff Sessions head not just about the obstruction piece or whether he would protect jim comey from being fired and protect him from being in inappropriate conversation with the president , but also this, apparently this information that he has that he couldnt bring up in open session. The members of the Intelligence Committee need to ask about that. Really the members of the judiciary committees in 3w09 the house both the house and senate need to find out does the attorney general have legal exposure. Its hard to serve as the chief Law Enforcement officer in the country at the same you are potentially incriminated. Here is how comey answered the question in the hearing as to why he was fired. Its my judgment that i was fired because of the russia investigation. I was fired in some way to change or the endeavor was to change the way the russia investigation was being conducted. That is a very big deal. Part of his answer 00 wonhy was fired. Former basilica to russia Michael Mcfall is with us from the campus at stanford. Ambassador, i quoted this immediately after the hearing, i thought of you about the russians, comey said they are coming after america. If any americans were helping russia do that to us, that is a very big deal. I assume you were watching with us. What were your thoughts coming out of the testimony . I have lots of thoughts, but youre probably mostly interested in what i have to think about the russia part of it. But that of course was that that is the story to come. Were in the prelude for my. We havent got to the actual investigation. Most certainly director comey thinks that its a big deal. I agree with him. I would also say that weve done absolutely nothing to change can our behavior to make our elections safer for the next round of elections. Were still debating the diagnostics. And i hope eventually well get to that part of the story. But there is one piece that links the obstruction story and main drama today with the russian story, which i just want to remind everybody of the obvious. Why was the president asking director doem comey to not investigate flynn . In my opinion, it seems like it had something to do with what flynn was doing with the russians. And number two, is he just doing this because he thinks flynn is a good guy . That is one hypothesis. But there is another hypothesis which needs to be investigated and that is that maybe mr. Flynn and president elect trump or President Trump were in much more coordination about these contacts with the russians than we know so far. I want to underscore we dont have the evidence for that, but if you thought that flynn was just u. Somebody that you could throw under the bus and walk away because you were not being investigated, why all of this drama, why all of this attention to try to get the investigation of mr. Flynn stopped. And ambassador, what does watching the coverage on a day like today do to your continuing disbelief over the absence of outrage after the russian attack . Well, again, im hoping this is just the early innings of a long game. But the real game, the real substance here is that the russians attacked our sovereignty, they stole data to influence the outcome of our election. Those facts i think are clear and we need to do something to make sure that doesnt happen again. The facts that arent clear are was there some work by americans to help them achieve that outcome. That is the piece that we need further investigation. Thats why we need these investigative hearings to continue. Ambassador, i always ask you as someone who represented this country around the world what any think when they watch with a spectacle like today and i wonder if some of those thoughts include what we look like around the world on a day like today. Well, usually i say this, which is we look weak, we look like were divided. And most certainly thais true. Were not talking about potential military conflict in the middle east, were not talking about other foreign problems and National Security issues. At the same time, thinking about my russian colleagues watching this, they are also taking a different lesson which is that we do have a democracy, we do have a rule of law. Congress actually does have independent authority. They are not just a rubber stamp for the presidency. And thats a good message for people around the world. That is still in place. But are the russians happy to see comey gone . Donald trump said to Sergey Lavrov and Sergey Kislyak that nutjob, that crazy guy comey is gone and im glad relieves preshl on o pressure on our relationship. Certainly russians werent celebrating american democracy today. Thats right. Very good point. Maybe mr. Putin wasnt, but maybe some russian citizens were nap is the point , that is the point wanted to make. Youre right, they celebrated that, but that was naive on their part to think that removing mr. Comey was going to stop the investigation, that was naive on the president s part if he thought that and most certainly that was naive on the part of the russians if they thought that. Because we are bigger than one man. We have a rule of law. We have a system of government. And that is a secondary lesson. The bigger lesson of course is that we are focused on ourselves, divided among ourselves, and that also was on display today. Either way one of the lasting quotes of this day fromhe former fbi director, they are coming after america. Thats what comey said about the russians. Mike, thank you very much for being with us. Katy tur has been tracking something we brought up earlier and didnt have the ability to bring to you. And that is donald trump jr. Was live tweeting the hearing today, though many people are amazed that his father, the president , has been radio silent. What do you have . Yeah, a lot of people amazed by that, but i think in some ways that shoe should hauld hav expected. He was surrounded by his legal team today and the idea of him tweeting, while it made some people excited, i think that they realized it was a bad idea. I would watch out for trump tweets tomorrow morning. Gentlemen wit yes, his son was tweet gz and you could see how the gop is reacting to this comey testimony. And they took very differently than many others took it. And specifically you could see that don jr. Was pointing out saying that james comey was the leaker in chief. They are appalled by the idea that he decided to leak his memos, his con temp rain be yus m contemporaneous memos to a friend to leak to reporters. And that these were comeys opinions, they were not obstruction, this is comeys interpretation of the meetings. We heard ari melber talk about this earlier. But i want to address something that you were talking about at the top of the hour. And that is donald trump and his personality. And the way he operates. And i know a thing or two about this it having as much experience as ive had with him over the past couple years. And i will say this, he is a charmer. He is somebody who wants to cultivate you, somebody who wants to bring you into his circle, bring you under his wing. And makeou someone who wants to not jt d his bidding, but bend to his will,ake you a friend. He will tell you that you are doing a great job, hell say i want to be friends, we can work together. And thats what we saw him or what we heard at least him doing with james comey according to how he described his interactions. Also where james comey said he was worried about the president might lie about the oneonone meeting in the oval office where the president asked the Vice President to leave and asked the attorney general to leave and asked his soninlaw and Senior Adviser jared are kukushner to. That is something that many people before james comey have been concerned about. When you are in a oneonone conversation with donald trump, youre always very aware of what you say. And how you say it. So its not misinterpreted by him. So its not taken out of con. So its not used against you later on. You dont go out of your way to Say Something that he might use to his advantage, say that reporters were calling him and telling him how great he was, which is something that he said oftentimes on the campaign trail. So this is not all unfamiliar statements. But again, on don jr. s time line and in the rnc, they are trying to paint quite a different version of events, not just that james comey is the leaker in chief, not just that this was his opinion and not obstruction, but also that trump is new to this, that trump made his feelings known about this russia investigation, this should not have come as a surprise to james comey taking the wind with out of his sails with that, saying this was just the president again expressing what he had expressed numerous times in the public sphere. Let me read these. This is donald trump jr. , again in the absence we had an off camera briefing at the white house today, we havent heard from the president. In the absence of that, this is someone on the inner circle. He starts flynns stuff is bs in context. Two guys talking about a guy they both know well. I hear, i hope nothing happens but you have to do your job. Very far from any kind of coercion or influence. And certainly not obstruction. Knowing my father forjob. 2 3 very far from any kind of coercion or influence and certainly not obstruction. Knowing my father for 39 years when he orders or tells you to do something there is no kbi am guety, you will know exactly what he means. You are the director of the fbi, who are you kidding . Followed by an emoji. Katy, that is the s of the president of the United States. And that is the son, in essence, acting as the de facto voice of the trump family, de facto voice of donald trump himself. We should know hes not in d. C. , hes not by his fathers side at the moment, he is in new york city. But the president himself has not come out and tweeted. We can take this to mean that the family is going to try and push back as hard as they can, and theyre going to try to call into question james comeys credibility, say that he wasnt doing things properly, that he was somebody who was abiding by his own set of rules, not the set of rules of the department, of the fbi, of the federal bureau of investigations. So, again, brian, he says this idea that when the president orders you to do something, you know youre supposed to do that thing, but james comey said, look at where i was. Look at who i was talking to. I was in the oval office. Look at the conversation we were having. We were alone. Why did he ask the Vice President to leave . Why did he ask the attorney general to leave . Why did Reince Priebus come in and make sure everything was okay midway in that conversation . He said he took hope to mean that the president literally hoped that he would stop investigating Michael Flynn, that he would put that aside, that he would move past it. Again, that is not something that happened katy tur, thanks. We actually have a snippet of that testimony, that very same exchange. Well run that. This is the president speaking. I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go. Those are his exact words, is that correct . Correct. And you put it in quotes . Yes. He did not direct you to go . Not in his words, no. He did not order you to let it go . Again, those words are not an order. I took it as a direction. This is the president of the United States with me alone saying, i hope this. I took it as, this is what he wants me to do. I didnt obey that, but thats the way i took it. Were back. Nicolle wallace, i was kind of surprised that they were going to litigate the difference between hope and order. Ive been alone in the oval office with the president who has said things, i guess, in that spirit, and there is no ambiguity. When the president has you alone in the oval office and asks you to do something, you go do it. You dont go back to your oval office and wonder if that was a spirit or a sentiment, you go back and do whatever he asked you to do. Now, i was never asked to do anything that crossed any ethical boundaries, and the point is comey felt like it was. This idea of the sons the only person sort of channelling his president in attacking the character of comey, i think, speaks for itself. This is a president without a lot of defenders in congress, without a lot of defenders in the Law Enforcement community. A normal white house on a day like today would have, you know, former attorney general and people in Law Enforcement sort of making legal arguments. For a guy to be giving james comey a lesson in character and strength of character is rich at best and pathetic at worst. And not to fine point it, but the relevant inquiry into what the fbi does in response to a president ial communication is not going to be resolved by a private citizen who is the son of an individual. I mean, what does he know about being an employee, . I suppose in the family business, but its not really relevant whatsoever. He has every right to talk publicly about why he likes his dad and thinks his dad is a good man. But the inquiry, if the special counsel and others pursue it, will be what were the efforts, goals and outcomes the president was seeking, and how did he pursue them . And did he pursue them through words alone and other deeds and ultimately was the firing part of it . Why is the family so obsessed with flynn . People say, trump is a really loyal guy. No, hes not. Ru giulia, chris christie, ey do nowo in the federal government. No one was more loyal to him than them. There is something with the whole trump family that they always have his back. And the two words for that are investigative interest. It will be of investigative interest to investigators and the special counsel what it is about mike flynn that was so consuming the president. Why did flynns lawyer come out so early and drop the request for immunity . We dont know. It was unusual. Talk about pro style, which has been a theme today. That was a letter that said he had a story to tell, and that he wanted immunity. There are layers of immunity, theres blanket immunity, theres use immunity which youre not going to get in trouble just for your words. We dont have time for history, but the grant of immunity while there is a current investigation going on are problematic in the extreme, so we have seen more restraint from these committees than in the past, at least at this juncture handing that out like candy. Ultimately the question is going to be, in whatever setting congress, or potentially private interviews or potentially grand jury interviews, do any of these people provide more information so the investigators have an understanding . Weve said this before, but as a legal correspondent, ill repeat it. If what ultimately comes out is that a few lone actors, isolated individuals did something wrong, but it was not a conspiracy or didnt reach the top of the white house, that can be dealt with, right . That has happened before. I think the bigger question and why you saw such import, even from the replin chairman today of this committee, was the notion, the possibility that what needs to be invesgated is something wider that touches on a foreign adversarys meddling. That needs to be gotten to the bottom of. Chris matthews, as we said at the start of the hearing, this happens in both parties. Used to be a fax machine. You would get the kind of party line questions and go into a hearing, and you would support the home team. We didnt see a whole lot of that today. Still unclear what john mccain was attempting during his questioning which came last. Did you see as much of that as we usually do . You didnt hear republican members on the committee who were they were very well behaved today, to put it lightly. They did a good job of asking questions, but you didnt hear them do a blanket offense of the president s veracity. It is odd not to stand up for the president of the United States in terms of his ability to tell the truth and give an accurate account. It was strange. Mccain, he can be bitter at times. I dont think he likes this president. Historically the last three or four months hes made that clear in terms of russian policy. But he seems to dislike comey more. The questions were trucculent, they were strange. How come you cleared Hillary Clinton . Well, she really wasnt the focus of the russian story to begin with. And he kept sticking to that in kind of a cranky way. But the others, i thought, were very careful. I always think of people like mansion, a democrat. Theyre always thinking of who is watching at home and not anti their own party interest. No one was anti republican or antidemocrat, but they were not out there defending the president s personality and character. I think whatever happens with the russian investigation, we have a president who is different, and these hearings make it very clear hes a different animal that weve seen politically than any before. Hes trying to shape the white house, shape the government and this country basically to him. Hes trying to get it to his style of government where hes the boss. The bureaucracy is under him, the press is under him, the courts are under him. Hes trying to get us used to tha that. I dont think hes used to the fact that hes constrained by the constitution, by checks and balances, by a free press and Public Service out there. Im not sure hes ready for that. What weve seen today is comey trying to explain this mans behavior from the day we first conversed was against everything i understood about how the constitution works. I wanted to lay that out for you in the green room on the state floor of the white house when we sat alone at an oval table and he asked for my loyalty and he thought he had gotten it. This thing, he called it. Comey was clear he didnt understand what the thing was. Read the statement, senator, and you would know exactly what this thing is. The thing is when he basically saluted the president and told him, i work for you now. Were approaching the 2 00 p. M. Eastern hour. Were still waiting for a couple more things to break before we can clear the air. Chris, one more question to you. How do people process these various investigations going on . Yes, theres mueller, yes, theres the questicommittee we today that seems to be trying their best to be well behaved and partisan. Then theres the House Committee. We talked to swalwell after the nunez incident. Whats their role now . I think the House Committee has helped senator burr of North Carolina do a really good job. I think he was burnt by that in terms of partisan identification. Hes going to do a really good job. Its probably good for the country that one house blew