Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin 20170508

Chief spokesman for the justice department. And jeremy bash, spokesman at the Defense Department. Kristen, get us up to speed with this reporting of yours and the white houses reaction to what weve learned that president obama then warned president elect donald trump not to hire mike flynn. Reporter thats right. According to our reporting, based on conversations with three former Top Obama Administration officials, former president obama did warn then president elect trump against hiring mike flynn during that 90minute meeting they had in the oval office and talked about mismanagement as well as potential judgment issues. But of course, President Trump decided to hire him any way. Now, we asked the white house about this. I spoke to a number of officials here, and theyre down playing that conversation, but not denying it, katie. One top official here making the point that the president elect wasnt particularly surprised, given the fact that mike flynn had been out campaigning and on tv essentially against secretary clinton and president obama. Another top official said that the conversation felt as though it was in jest, that it wasnt particularly rooted in substance. Theyre also raising questions about why president obama didnt revoke mike flynns security clearance if he had real concerns about it. Were digging into that allegation, because of course, the Trump Administration had to effectively vet mike flynn and they did based on our reporting, and they ultimately decided to move forward with hiring him. So well talk to sean spicer about all of this. I know youve been reporting on this, as well, part of the decision to hire mike flynn, to move forward with that appointment had to do with trust and loyalty. The fact that he had been onef President Trumps then candidate trumps, earest supporters and a Foreign Policy adviser on the campaign trail. So a lot to dig into when this briefing gets under way. Mike flynn met with donald trump in the summer of 2015 when no one else was taking him seriously. So that went a long way in terms of Building Trust and a relationship and he came onto the campaign in 2016 in february as a Foreign Policy adviser. Then became very visible, as we all saw him during the campaign, especially at the Republican National convention. Kristen welker, thank you very much. Mike, preview for us this other big news, this sally yates hearing and the testimony shell be giving in front of the subcommittee, what do we expect to learn from her . Reporter well, the way we understand it, is that sally yates, when she was the acting attorney general at the outset of the Trump Administration for just ten days was concerned with nothing less than blackmail of Michael Flynn. When she was learned, it was reported to her through the Intelligence Community and routine intercepts that the conversations that Michael Flynn was having during the transition, before coming into the white house as the National Security adviser, with the Russian Ambassador here in washington, were not simply the proforma niceties having to do with diplomacy but were substantive. Specifically that Michael Flynn was assuring the ambassador that the sanctions being slapped on russia by the Obama Administration in retaliation for russian actions in skraukra dont worry about it. Sally yates went to the white house counsel, brought it up with him some five days into the administration. So theres a great deal of concern that discrepancy between the stories that the white house has told, sean spicer, who were about to see yet again, say it was merely a heads up, or was it something far more ominous . Theres this discrepancy between the actualconversaon, as we understand it betweethe ambassador and the National Securityadviser, and what mike flynn represented to mike pence, the Vice President , who went before cameras and down played the interaction. So a great deal to get into within the next hour. Well see sally yates appearing before the senate committee. Sally yates at 2 30 this afternoon. Well be leading into that with a host of coverage and also this White House Press briefing, which youre watching with us on the left hand side of your screen, where sean spicer is set to begin. Lets talk with matt miller and jeremy bash. Matt, i want to get your reaction to nbcs exclusive reporting, that the president of the United States warned donald trump while he was in transition less than 48 hours after the election that mike flynn was not somebody that he should be hiring. I think its stunning. If you think about that meeting, this is two days after the election. Donald trump comes into the oval office, gets briefed by president obama about some of the countrys most important secrets, some of and president takes time to tell trump is that you should not hire mike flynn. Mike flynn had worked in the Obama Administration. President obama presumably was speaking from experience. President trump ignored that warning. It was just one of many warnings. Some public, some private from obama. And later from an acting attorney general sally yates and it raises grave questions about their judgment. And the white house, according to officials speaking to Kristen Welker, is that they said they believed this was donald trump believed that this was said sort of in jest, dont hire mike flynn. But also if president obama was so concerned about it, why did he not revoke his security clearance . And he candidnt revoke his security clearance. So explain that, why did mike flynn still hold his security clearance even after he left the Obama Administration . Security clearances are not granted nor are they revoked by the president of the United States. Thats kind of ridiculous. They are adjudicated by career professionals. These are routine matters. More than 1. 5 Million People in our country hold a top secret security clearance. The bigger issues h w he vetted for job of the natiol security adviser. That he may not have disclosed his work on behalf of the government of turkey, that he didnt register as a Foreign Agent. Those are bigger issues that could have come into play in the vetting. When the president of the United States says to the incoming president , you should watch out for the this potential hire. My question is, was it based on temperament or counterintelligence concerns that were revealed in the investigation that sally yates oversaw from the summer of 2016 going forward. We got a twominute warning for the White House Press briefing. But the white house, im told, is not really worried about sally yates coming out and testifying today in front of that judiciary subcommittee. They believe this is a political venture, that she was acting in a partisan way when she informed don mcgann of Michael Flynn. From your experience with sally yates, in her career, has she been labeled partisan before . Theres not a partisan bone in her body. Shes a career prosecutor who put corrupt Public Officials from both parties in jail. Ive seen people say this is the first step in her campaign for governor or for congress or from some other office. I think thats highly unlikely. Ive talked to her about this, and i think its unlikely she ever runs for public office. What people will see today is a career prosecute we are a lot of credibility who will likely contradict what sean spicer will say from the white house podium. Theres a lot of anticipation about her testimony. After all, it was essentially delayed by devin nunez a couple months ago when there was confusion whether she would be able to testify and granted the authority to do so by the white house and the doj. Shes doing it now. What are you expecting her to directly contradict when it comes to what sean spicer said. She will say it wasnt just a heads up that she gave. She will come in and directly say, the National Security adviser apparently wasnt truthful with the white house, because the white house then in its Public Statements was not truthful. We think that means he is subject to blackmail by russian intelligence, and you have a potential National Security threat in the white house. A very direct warning. The question will be, what did the white house do about that . It looks like the answer is nothing. Why should the American Public be concerned about this . The American Public is saying, more of russia, trauump supports say thing is a big witch hunt. Why is it a big deal for her to say im concerned that general flynn might be subject to blackmail by the russians. We need to know how much leverage the Russian Federation does have over our Foreign Policy. We dont want to just give russia a pass for interfering in our election. We want to retaliate against them. But if in fact mike flynn said dont worry, russia, ive got your back. If they said, were okay with it, its one of the reasons we want him in this job, its not a problem as the president president obama warned, its one of the reasons we want him to do this. Then that should be concerning, because that shows that we were okay with russian leverage over american Foreign Policy. And today, as we sit here in the month of may, we need to know how much leverage does russia have even at this moment. Why did it take so long for the Obama Administration to come out and admit that russia was or confirm that russia was behind the hacks . Is there a concern that they should have come out more forcefully sooner . This happened on october 7th. That was the same day the access Hollywood Tape came out. They both happened on a friday afternoon. You could call news coming out on a friday afternoon, especially news that can be planned like this, confirmation from dhs, that there was confidence russia was behind the hack, a bit of a news dump. Why the friday afternoon after something was already breaking . Well, i would say first of all, i think they probably werent they planned to do it on that friday. They didnt know the access Hollywood Tape would come out. But hind sisight is 20. I think there are a lot of people in thebama administration, certainly some ive talked to, if they could go back in time would have been more forceful in their warnings, maybe made the connection that the elections were trying to elect donald trump early, make it public early in a Public Statement from a podium. This is going to be one of the questions that jim clapper will be asked today. James clapper and sally yates both testifying today before that judiciary subcommittee. Donald trump is tweeting, general flynn was given the highest security clearance by the Obama Administration, but the fake news seldom likes talking about that. That is one tweet hes talking about when it comes to general flynn in the news out today. The other one is ask sally yates under oath if she knows how classified information got into the newspapers soon after she explained it to white house counsel. So hes trying to undercut her credibility. Heres sean spicer. So my question is going to get cut short. Lets take a listen. I missed you all tremendously. [ laughter ] now that i realize that we can do that a little more, ill spend a little more time at the pentagon. Move this up a little bit. I appreciate your flexibility today so the pool has enough time to cover the Vice President as they welcome honor flight veterans to washington. The Vice President is hosting more than 120 veterans of world war ii, the korean war and the vietnam war as part of National Military Appreciation Month and sublub also today, the Vice President and others attended an event. Key leaders from government discussed the United States comprehensive biomedical landscape and further edge kated white house staff, including assistants to the president. The meeting was led by the director dr. Francis collins. Leaders in the medical education and research joined executives from companies who invest in biotech to provide analysis in reallife examples of how americas sustained leadership in the Biomedical Industry has resulted in immeasurable benefits to our countrys economic and physical wellbeing. Among the prabarticipants were l ford, dr. Craig thompson, and dr. Rick lifton, the president of rockefeller university. The United States currently sits atop the list of Global Investors responsible for 44 of Global Research and development. This investment is dependent on nih, and the Important Research it funds. In order to maintain our International Leadership in biomedicine, we must strengthen the partnerships between investors, academics, the biopharma industry and research foundations. This was an important step in reinforcing that essential cooperation. Im pleased to announce that today, shortly after this briefing, we will release a list of the president s third wave of federal court nominees. This ten individuals that the president has chosen war chosen for their deep knowledge to the law and commitment to upholding the constitution. Two nominees came from the list of potential Supreme Court nominees that the president released during the campaign. If confirmed, Justice Joan Larson will be a Circuit Court judge for the sixth circuit. Justice larson is currently on the michigan Supreme Court. And Justice David strauss will be a Circuit Court judge for the 8th the Campaign List was put together from input from the heritage foundation, as well as the federalist society. As the president said, these highly respected people are the kind of scholars that we need to preserve the very core of our country and make it greater than ever before. The president followed the principles used to guide that list to select the additional eight individuals. And the full list shod be out shortly. In terms of the president s schedule for today, this morning he met with his National Security adviser and spoke with the french president elect to congratulate him on his victory. A readout of that call should be out shortly. The Prime Minister of georgia was also at the white house meeting with the Vice President. The Prime Minister then dropped by with the Vice President into the oval office to greet the president. Earlier this afternoon, the president had lunch with the Vice President. In about an hour, hell meet with secretary of state tillerson. Secretary tillerson has also been meeting with several foreign leaders, including the Prime Minister of montenegro. The secretary is in denmark to cohost a meeting with the danish minister of defense, with Senior Leaders from 15 countries that are key contributors to the deisis military campaign. Secretary mattis will meet separately with the secretary of defense to discuss European Security and the importance of the Nato Alliance to reaffirm the close ties between denmark and the United States. In other cabinet news, secretary zincy is in utah today. He will be accompanied by the governor and local state lotion for an aerial tour of the million acre monument and a roundtable meet thing evening. While in utah, the secretary and other officials are Holding Press Briefings on the ground. You can reach out to the interior department for more details with. That, i would be glad to take a few questions. Kristen . Sean, thank you. [ inaudible ] against hiring mike flynn. Why did he ignore that . The president doesnt disclose details of meetings that he has, which in this case was an hourlong meeting. But its true that the president president obama made it known that he wasnt a fan of general flynns. Which is frankly shouldnt come as a surprise that given general flynn had worked for president obama, was an outspoken of president obamas shortcomings, specifically as it related to his lack of strategy confronting isis and other threats around that were facing america. So the question that you have to ask yourself is if president obama was concerned about general flynn, why didnt he suspend general flynns security clearance, which they had just approved months earlier . And why did the Obama Administration let flynn go to russia and receive a fee for a speaking engagement. If that was a truly person, more than just a person that had bad blood. And i want to follow up. If a sitting president raises concern about an individual, why wouldnt that give the president elect pause . Wouldnt that give the incoming president cause . I dont know that i agree with your characterization. I dont think it should come as a surprise president obama was not a fan it didnt give him pause at all . If you knew what we knew at the time, which is the security clearance he had, had been reapproved in april of that year, and not only did they reapprove it, but they took no steps to suspend it. So what did they do if they had real concerns beyond not just not liking him for some of his comments. Its our understanding, did mike flynn not need an upgraded security clearance . He had been head of the Defense Intelligence agency. Thats the same clearance the secured clearance, we went of this, its the same clearance at any level. Once you get it, you get it. He had his reinvestigationn april of 2016, a the Obama Administration took no steps not only did they reaffirm that security clearance, but they took no steps to tack ake any o actions. Did you not vet him yourself . Everyone in the government goes through the same process. Thats why you get a security clearance. The answer is those same that same process worked for general flynn as it did for me or anyone else who works here. Theres no difference of a security clearance once its issued. Zeke . Does knowing what the white house knows now, does the white house believe that general flynn should not have had that clearance reissued . And does the white house believe that general flynn was truthful when he filled out his form for that reinvestigation last year . Im not going to get into those details. That was something adjudicated by the Obama Administration in april of 2016. They took no steps to suspend that. So thats not really a question for us, its a question for them at that time. Knowing what you know now i think the president took appropriate action, once he felt that general flynn had misled the Vice President and he took appropriate action at the time and stands by that today. His ties to russia, did his work for the work for the government of turkey lead to his firing . The president stands by his decision. Thank you. Hunter . [ inaudible ] can you confirm whether or not the president has made a decision about sending additional troops to afghanistan . And if so, when are they going, how many are going, and what is their mission . Ill refer you to the department of defense on that. They are in contact with them, but we have nothing to share at this time. Sarah . The president tweeted this morning that senators on the Intelligence Committee should ask sally yates about her role in classified leaks about general flynn. Does the president have evidence that ties sally yates to t flynn leaks . Why did he tweet that . I think youre well aware of the president s concern about spills of classified and other Sensitive Information out in the open. Its something that should concern every american and the president has made it very clear since he took office thats a big concern of his. And so the idea that classified information made its way into the press is something that i think while were asking all these questions is one of the ones the senator should ask. How did that information get out into the open like that. I think that is an equally important question that frankly isnt getting asked. Does the president believe that sally yates was the leaker . Again, i think the tweet speaks for itself. What hes saying is that the senate should ask those questions. Yeah . Sean, aside from the announcement today that the president will nominate ten judges to fill federal vacancies, many conservatives remain concerned the white house is woefully behind on overall appointments. The president told the examiner that he doesnt need to fill vacant posts in the administration, and after these ten, there will still be 110 vacancies. Does the president still believe that these jobs do not need to be filled and are there any plans to increase the pay of political appointments . We have a very robust schedule of releasing names. There is a method to this. I think you should expect to see more go through. The process this time around is a little different. Were going through the office of government ethics and fbi clearances before announcing most of these individuals. So theres a difference in how were doing this. But we are well on pace with respect to many of these to get the government up and running. But the president s point that he was making in that interview was that part of the review of government is to make sure were looking at these positions and figuring out whether or not we have the taxpayer is getting the best bang for their buck, in terms of productivity and cost. So were looking through the entire government, director mulvaney briefed you how we relook at government and figure out whether or not we can do a better job of filling positions, staffing the government. But were going to continue to have announcements on key positions as the week goes by. [ inaudible ] we are. I think youre going to continue to see, whether its judicial nominees, ambassadors, we have a very healthy clip of announcements that continue to go out. Trey . Ahead of her testimony today, does President Trump believe sallyuates is a trustworthy source of information . That is up to the senate to decide whether or not what she says well have to wait and see. And following up, it seems that the president was implying that sally yates may have had something to do with leaked information to newspapers. Is that what he was implying . I think the tweet speaks for itself. Richard . Two questions. First on the canadian Prime Minister on friday said theyre considering as a reaction to what the Prime Minister calls [ inaudible ] banning coal imports from the u. S. Is this a trade war between canada and the u. S. . No. Wilbur ross, the commerce secretary, has been in touch with his counterparts over there. Theres a reason the dispute mechanism is set up the way it is under this particular trade agreement. So that the two parties can resolve them in a way that allows for both sides to air their concerns. Thats why you have an agreement and mechanism set up. Lets let it play out. Secretary ross took appropriate action. And ten days ago, the president said that mexico and canada have agreed to fasten the process to renegotiate nafta. Where has that been . Well have further updates for you on that. Right now theres nothing to share. John . Did sally yates have to run any of her planned testimony by the general counsels office that shell deliver later this afternoon . Not that im aware. Do you have any reason to doubt that her testimony, which will be under oath, will be truthful before this Senate Subcommittee . I would assume when you raise your right hand and agree to tell the truth and nothing but the truth that youll do that. Thats the whole reason you pledge. Francesca . Thank you, sean. President trump was not receiving a daily intelligence briefing during the transition. He was receiving his information from general flynn. Do you think that lack of direct information from the Intelligence Community contributed to the lapse in vetting with general flynn . So first, he did get his we extensively went over the pdb briefing throughout the campaign. I believe it was three times a week he was getting it, sup planted by his National Security team that would do that. So i think the premise is not there. Secondly, as i mentioned to kristen, the processes that were followed by general flip are followed by every Government Employee who receives a clearance at that level. On another thing, i wanted to talk about the signing statement that came out on friday with the spending bill. Senior administration officials, including betsy devos, didnt seem to know about that. Why didnt she or people working on that issue know it was coming . Whose idea was that, and what happened between when sarah was out here on friday, saying that she didnt think there was going to be Something Like that . And then close of business when there was a signed statement and did you know it was coming . Signing statements are a proforma activity that occurs during a bill signing thats performed by the department of justice. Its been used by every president. So im not sure what everyone knew, but that is something that goes along, going back multiple administrations. Back in february, the president said lifting the draft ban would mean many bad people would come in. Have you seen any evidence of that . That is a question for the department of homeland security. I dont have anything at that. In the same vein, if this white house is no longer call thing a muslim ban, as the president did initially, why does the president s website still explicitly call for preventing muslim immigration and it says, donald trump is calling for a complete shutdown of muslims coming into the United States. I know weve talked about this as a travel ban in this countrys National Security interest to make sure that people coming here are coming here with the right reasons and motives. Weve been very consistent since the first day of this administration on this. This phrase is still on the website. If the president s words are used against him in court today, is it worth clarifying . Im trying to figure out why ive been very clear, i dont think i need to clarify what we have said or what the president said this is coming up in court. I understand that, and thats one of the reasons we have concerns about how thats being interpreted. I think the intent of the travel ban was very clear. I think the it was something that the president made very clear in the filings that we have filed, why he did it, the motives for doing it. So there shouldnt be any question why the president is doing this, and the idea that were putting the safety of our Country First and foremost. Two topics. So the Kushner Family was in china making a pitch for the visa program after the president signed the omnibus. So two questions, one, is it a violation of the conflict of interest agreement that Jared Kushner came to . And also, does the president believe that Investor Visa Program needs to be modified . I think i would refer you to the company on that. But jared has done everything to comply with the ethics rules. That had nothing to do with him per se. He wasnt involved. And we talked about the president and congress are looking at how to look of the entire visa program and all the various visa programs and whether or not they are serving the purpose that they were intended to, whether or not were making sure that we do whats in the best interest of the american worker. So well continue to work with congress on that. Regarding the opoid commission, no members of that commission have been named yet into a 90day period for that commission to come back with a report to the president. What is up with that . And does that send a wrong signal to people who believe this is an urgent crisis in let me get back to you on the exact names and the announcement on that. I think when it comes to the opoid president , the president during the campaign and now as president has made it very clear of his commitment to figuring out how we can address this crisis that plagues so many neighborhoods and communities. And hell continue to work with he appointed governor christie in a bipartisan commission. So as soon as we have additional information, we will do that. Why is it important for the president to get these ten individuals out there to serve the country, and there shall a number of vacancies, 129 going into today, to say nothing of some of the openings over there in the eob that can still be filled. The pace seems slow. Is the president aware of the pace, is he comfortable with the pace and what is the white house doing to fill those jobs . Obviously, were going through in a very metdical way. As i mentioned earlier, theres a lot of background that goes on in each of these in terms of the fbi background check that goes on, and so theyre all in the pipeline. Youll continue to see a very robust number of announcements on several of the fronts. Weve been tracking where we are. Were well on pace where previous administrations have been. Were doing a great job of filling key positions and making sure we get the right person for the right job. I want to ask you a question about afghanistan. You were asked about troop levels, but haslast week [ inaudible ] en the president has talked about not projecting, you know, where hes going and what hes going to do to let the enemy know ahead of time. And part of that guidance that his National Security team is giving him are different pieces that youre talking about. How do we achieve those key outcomes and do whats in the countrys best interest and utilize our military and our traesh toeasure to the best of ability. Thats something were k07 continuing to work on. So im not entirely sure that answers where youre going. But that is what hes been getting briefed on, and that is the Decision Making process thats under way. Is the president displeased with the current state of affairs in afghanistan . I think hi wants to make sure we do what we can to win. Thats why he charged the generals and other military advisers to come up with a plan that can get us there. Does the president believe that health care is a right or a product . Well, i think the president s been very clear in his statements that whether or not you call it a right or not, he wants every person to have access to health care that covers preexisting conditions, that is affordable, and i think the steps that hes taken over the haste welast week that he w pass in the house, clearly highlight the priorities. He wants to make sure people have access to care. He is concerned when he hears about companies leaving the marketplace and not giving consumers a choice. Hes concerned when he hears about deductibles and costs going through the roof and people not having the access they can to health care. And hes very concerned that we are facing a choice right now where obamacare is dying. And if we dont act, that people wont have access to health care and wont be able to afford it. So the steps that he is taking are to achieve those principles that hes laid out. Back to that november conversation, were there specific reasons given as to Michael Flynn, and if so, was that based on private information . I dont know the answer to that. Like i said, he passed along what i mentioned to kristen at the outset. Michael. Two clarifications. Are you saying that the president was not aware of that very long of the details of that very long signing statement, it was just something done no, no. Im sorry, thats no, the president is obviously aware of what happened. The question was asked, it is a process. It has happened for administrations going back generations, im sure. This is a norm aal pro aal prof. So a lot of things in that signing statement were carryovers from things obama had also objected to, but the president and the senior staff here was aware of wha those things were and approved of course, yes. Okay. Second question on the flynn and the security clearance, you guys have made from the podium here and the president made a big deal of this question of the obama people gave him the clearance earlier. Are you suggesting now, knowing what you guys know with hindsight, are you saying that they should have you believe that Obama Administration should have denied him his clearance back in april based on the information that youre now aware of, connections with russia, et cetera, et cetera. Are you suggesting they should have denied it . What im suggesting is you cant have it both ways. That the folks coming out and saying obama expressed some concern about flynn. Number one, it was pretty expected. This is a guy who was very outspoken in his criticism of president obamas policies. So the idea that president obama, you know, didnt like the guy doesnt seem shocking. But the point you have to ask yourself is, if the Obama Administration or under the Obama Administration, if they reissued one of the highest security clearances that you can get, knowing what they knew then, and didnt do anything to take a proactive step to suspend it in any way, shape or form, the question is, if they were concerned, why didnt they take any steps . Theyre the ones who had at that point all the access and all the knowledge to everything that was on his security clearance form, not us. So if president obama or anyone else in the government was concerned, the question should be asked, what did they do . And if nothing, then why not if they really truly were concerned . That is a fair question. Dave, dave, dave, dave. Sean, over the weekend, north korea detained the fourth u. S. Citizen. Are you concerned that theyre trying to escalate tensions even further . Do you consider these americans hostages . And what are you doing diplomatically, back channel or otherwise, to get them released . Obviously ts is concerning. Were well aware of this an were going to work through the embassy of sweden that has an embassy in north korea to seek the release of the individuals there. But i would refer you to the state department on that. Thank you very much. Just to follow up on afghanistan. You mentioned isis but you didnt mention the taliban. Should we read that to mean its to defeat the isis and taliban. Its to make sure we defeat all of those folks that seek to do us harm. Are you being to negotiate with the taliban . I think right now the whole point is, the president is receiving a plan and guidance from his National Security team as he asked for. That guidance is coming forward as we speak. Hes continuing to meet with them. And there will be further updates from the department of defense. As i mentioned at the outset, the Vice President has an event. Good to see you. Thank you. Sean spicer ending the Daily Briefing from the white house. And it focused largely on our nbc news exclusive reporting that then president obama warned then president elect donald trump not to hire mike flynn less than 48 hours after the election. Lets bring in our panel. Jeremy bash, matt miller, liz smith, msnbc chief Legal Correspondent ari melbourne, and rick tyler, msnbc political analyst. Were also going to get Kristen Welker in a moment from that briefing room. Lets first go back and replay what sean spicer told Kristen Welker regarding her exchclusi reporting. Did you not vet him your severals . On a security clearance, thats why you get a security clearance. Everyone in the government goes through the same process. So the answer is, those same that same process worked for general flynn as it did for me or anyone else who works here. Theres no difference of a security difference once issued. There is no difference of a security clearance once issued. Lets bring in Kristen Welker. Sean spicer largely sticking to what a senior official told nbc news on background a little earlier today, that they believe that president obama, if he was so concerned, should have revoked his security clearance. Reporter thats right. And the reality is, its our understanding, based on conversations with other former National Security officials, that in fact he did need an upgraded security clearance in order to nerve as National Security adviser. Spicer effectively denying that saying look, because he had already been given security clearance under the Obama Administration, thats enough. But we reported several weeks ago that this white house did in fact do its own vetting and decided to go ahead and hire mike flynn, despite they were made aware of payments to be accepted from officials related to the russian government and some of his other contacts with foreign nationals. So this administration sort of trying to walk a very fine line amidst a number of muddled facts. But shawn spice esean spicer do that conversation that former president obama warned president elect trump against hiring mike flynn. He essentially painted it as its not a big surprise because mike flynn had been campaigning against the obama era policies. But theyre going to have to continue to answer a number of tough questions why they were given that red flag and the president effectively ignored it. Kristen, thank you very much. Lets get a reality check from jeremy and matt. Sean spicer saying you dont vet someone, when they have a security clearance, you dont need to vet them any longer. Thats not accurate, katie. Security clearance is a determination by the government that you are eligible for aess to sensitive informatio th theres a second piece. You have to have a need to know based on your job. To get vetted, he would have to go through the most vigorous vetting. Thats where the trump transition dropped the ball. That begs the question, why would he have a security clearance if he should not be somebody who is get thing information . Well, again, he only gets the information if he has a job, if the election were going to happen and trump would have lost, which is what i think the obama team thought would have happened, mike flynn would have never come near classified information. How extraordinary is it for the president to warn the president elect not to hire somebody that had been such a large part of his campaign . Its absolutely extraordinary. It tells you how important president obama thought it was to give that warning. I also think theres another piece of information about whether he was vetted and whether his security clearance should have been renewed. After his security clearance was renewed in 2016, two pieces of information came to light that the Trump Transition Team would have known about. One, he traveled to russia to attend that dinner. And that he was paid for it by the russian government. We know that he actively misled or withheld information from the Defense Department about the fact that he was 35id bid paid. And you have the oped he wrote on the day of the election for the turkish government. That was another event that the white house would have seen. Those two pieces of information, you have him as an unregistered Foreign Agent and taking money from russia. His security clearance would have had to have been reupped later in the year. Are you saying that officials did not know about the paid appearance at rt, and did not know about mike flynns various other complications overseas, that he was acting as a Foreign Agent at the time he was initially reupped for a security clearance by the Obama Administration, and then it came to heigliafthe is tt correct thats right. The Defense Department said the did not know when mike flynn went to russia. In fact, the Inspector General launched an investigation because of the fact he did not disclose that information. This is all complicated, and the timeline gets muddy. Youre saying what sean spicer said at the podium is a generous description of how things went. Generous for the Trump Administration. Well, theyre trying to basically throw him under the bus. The problem is they did it in slow motion. On january 26th, when sally yates warned them, it took them 17 days to fire them. If they were concerned, they would have fired him right away. Instead, they fired sally yates. Jeremy, matt, thank you very much. Much more with our Political Panel right after the break. Sfx engine revving silence whaaaat . ortgage offer from the bank today. You never just get one offer. Go to lendingtree. Com and shop multiple loan offers for free. Free . Yeah, could save thousands. You should probably buy me dinner. No. Go to lendingtree. Com for a new home loan or refinance. Receive up to five free offers and choose the loan thats right for you. Our average customer could lower their monthly bills by over three hundred dollars. Rates could rise again. Go to lendingtree. Com right now. Before fibromyalgia, i was a doer. I was active. Then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. My doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. She also prescribed lyrica. Fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. Lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. 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President obama made it known that he wasnt exactly a fan of general flynns, which frankly shouldnt come as a surprise to anyone given that general flynn had worked for president obama, was an outspoken critic that was sean spicer moments ago reacting to the news that president obama had warned President Trump not to hire Michael Flynn less than two days after the election. Lets bring in our panel. Rick, lets start with you. Sean spicer saying the Obama Administration cant have it both ways. If they thought general flynn was such a threat, they should have revoked his security clearance. You heard jeremy bash a moment ago throwing cold water on that, saying its not quite the same thing. But the story about general flynn and how much vetting the Trump Administration actually did on him isnt going away. No, its not going away, and it leads to President Trumps judgment being questioned. He spent a great amount of time flying around on the campaign trail with general flynn. He got to know him, he got to be comfortable enough with him, so much so that he wanted to make him his National Security advis adviser. But it is quite amazing that they are saying that this is no big deal. I think its a very big deal, and what we know now is that president obama tried to spare donald trump these endless negative headlines that keep coming up around general flynn. Donald trump wasnt didnt have any pause, sean spicer says, liz, that obama warned him about general flynn. After all, general flynn had been going after secretary of state Hillary Clinton during the campaign quite hard, saying lock her up at the Republican National convention and repeating it during campaign rallies. He also was no fan of president obama, Whose Administration he was dismissed under in 2014 as dni. Theyre making this political. Shocker. Look, theyre doing everything in their power to try to delegimize this investigation, and politicizing it is one way for them to do it. Look, to your point, he might not have had any pause about hiring general flynn, but i bet he has a lot of regrets about it now. We were talking about it off camera with the panel of four, but general flynn is a story that doesnt go away. Its like friday the 13th. Every time you think jason is dead, he pops right back to life to terrorize the unsuspecting teens at crystal lake, and thats what general flynn is for them, and this problem isnt going away. More problematic is that its not just donald trump it affects, it affects all the republicans who have to go out there and defend his poor judgment in selecting and standing by someone of his character. And general flynn did tell the Intelligence Committees that he had a story to tell and he would do so, he would tell his story if he was given whats the word immunity, thank you, blanked on that word for a moment. So far it does not look like any of the Intelligence Committees are going to be giving him that. Theyre not entirely sure what he means by a story to tell. From my reporting, there is concern in the white house that general flynn is now a political liability, that he is, quote, from one source, a loose cannon who could say anything. Theyre concerned about him, theres concern about the way he was let go. On top of this, there is also a hearing with former Deputy Attorney general sally yates. Thats happening at 2 30 today, in the next hour. She is somebody who her testimony is very anticipated. Shes somebody who told this white house, was the one who warned the white house that general flynn could be subject to blackmail by the russians because what he was saying in public about his conversations with ambassador Sergei Kislyak was not exactly true. Ari . Thats right, i think this is striking. She is with politics for two generations. I think with political sniping in general in washington, but it doesnt match the facts. I think what everybody is watching what she says is what did she think was necessary to do on behalf of the United States government, not o politics, not on opoptics, but d she come into information, which has been reported but weve never heard her say it herself, that basically raised such serious concerns that she wanted to tell the white house that there were problems, and then that, of course, is not only potentially bad for flynn but it could be bad for the white house if it is seen as the kind of information, to use a legal standard, that a reasonable person could have acted on and they didnt. I last spoke to sally yates in october, shortly before all this began when she became acting attorney general, and she was very proud of the nonpartisan work she had done as a prosecutor. She talked about her fidelity to the law. There is a comey standard at times because he always talked about not getting into politics. Some folks disagree with that, but shes always in that comey prosecutor, let the chips fall where they may. This will be her star turn, though. Appreciate your time. Coming up in the next hour, we will carry acting attorney general sally yates testimony before congress live. We were just talking about it. Special coverage just ahead on msnbc. Will your business be ready when growth presents itself . American express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. Find out how American Express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open. Com. Find out how American Express cards and services if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture. I can tell you prolia® is proven to help protect bones from fracture. But the real proof . My doctor said prolia® helped my bones get stronger. Are your bones getting stronger . 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Com gets it. They offer free cancellation, in case i decide to go from kidfriendly to kidfree. Now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. Your vacation is very important. Thats why booking. Com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. Visit booking. Com now to find out why were booking. Yeah good day. Our live coverage kbibegins hern new york. Well be covering the goingson in washington as hearings begin today for former acting attorney general sally yates and the former director of national intelligence, james clapper. Theyll be appearing before a senate committee. The hearing room is set at the hea art Senate Office building. President obama figures into this coverage. There is a report that there was a warning from president obama to president elect trump to distance themselves from retired general Michael Flynn. Michael flynn was, in fact, appointed the National Security adviser tosi