They have swept the entire building at this point. You heard them say they have people that are deceased inside that building. Many more who were taken to the hospital. Take a listen to a video that is purported to be of that video game tournament when the shooting began. Take a listen to this. A lot of good games going on today. Its going to be hard to get them on stream. Theres a lot. Its not a tough out today. Not an easy out. What did he shoot me with . There are the sound of people running for their lives as that shooting unfolded during that video game tournament. As you heard the sheriff say, there is one suspect who is dead at the scene. He is a white male. They are working to confirm his identity at this point. Many more were taken to the hospital. There are people who are being told to stay away from the area. This is a large crime scene. Those are the words of tsheriff. They are working to process this entire scene. Of course, you heard at least a dozen shots between 14 to 15 shots just in that short video clip before that signal went down. But again, a lot of Unanswered Questions at this point. And no word on a motive. This, as this investigation is going to continue. By the way, they say they will have another briefing in a couple of hours. So we hope to learn more about what unfolded today at the landing in jacksonville. Tell us really quickly if you have any updates on the conditions of those that have been treated. Where have they been taken to . More importantly, are we expecting them to survive . Right now were getting very limited information. These victims were taken to a number of different hospitals in jacksonville. Its a matter of piecing together where everybody went. One hospital that we have heard from is jacksonville memorial hospital. They say they admitted three people and that right now they are in stable condition. So thats from one hospital in the jacksonville area. But again, our local affiliate, our local nbc affiliate in jacksonville is reporting that four people were killed and that 11 people were injured. Where the rest of them went, at this point were trying to piece that together and figure out what their conditions are. All right. Thank you for that. Joining me now is retired atf special agent in charge and msnbc contributor. Good to have you with us. You and i speak frequently when it is these types of tragedies. Lets try to begin to piece together where this investigation goes from here. We have a few key pieces of evidence. If you want to call it that. We have that video recording. Im sure at a venue as public and as frequented as jackson landing, Jacksonville Landing, youre going to get some kind of surveillance and some kind of video down there as well. But walk us through where this investigation begins, what are the priorities . Well, it starts right at the epicenter right there at the shooters body. Thats the first place. You know, theyre going to try to get an identification off him, drivers license or an id. And theyre going try to work that out. Theyre going to try to get any video from witnesses and theyre going toinlt vi interview the witnesses. There are a number of eyewitnesses that watch the shooting unfold. Then theyre going to examine the scene inside of the bar, restaurant, you know, to get the bullet fragments, shell casings that might have been expended. Theyll have the gun. The shooter is deceased. Theyre going to trace the gun and try to find where he got it. Did he kill himself . Thats the question. We havent heard a report that another patron or owner shot him. We dont know if an officer got there quick enough to shoot him. So its possible. Its possible he committed suicide. Its possible he went in there to kill and kill himself. So that is a possibility. So were going to see an all night forensic process at that scene. Were going to see detectives or agents somewhere in america going to his home to get his computer and cell phones. Were going to see him go into the car which is probably parked near the landing or somehow he got there if he took an uber or cab, bus, they have to determine that. You know, oftentimes these killers if its somewhat spontaneous, they will go out to their car to retrieve the firearm and come back and shoot. I know its difficult to ascertain a motive. Well be getting more insight into a possible motive. But it youre trying to put the evidence in a column between that which is spontaneous and impulsive versus that which is planned, what are you looking for in terms of what suggest thats something might have been impulsive and spontaneous . What are you looking for if youre looking at something that has been planned perhaps days and weeks in the making . Well, youre looking at the target, number one. Who is being shot and killed . That tells you something about whats going on. Second, youre looking at the shooter himself. How did they come and how prepared were they . If we have a shooting like at the pulse nightclub, they come with ar15, he planned it, hes coming in there and wants mass casualties. That is unfortunately achievable. But it a person comes with a handgun, you know, maybe thats all they got because it wasnt as planned as well. It doesnt mean so. I dont want to say its absolutely so. With a handgun, you can kill a lot of people. The shooter at Virginia Tech used handguns and killed 32 people. Handguns can be deadly in a planned event. But if its more spontaneous, you may not get the death count. But the heartbreak of the families here, its just awful. Its so vulgar. People are there for basically a sporting event, a social event and theyre just gunned down. I would just say this, the last thought is listening to the video, it did seem to me like he was point shooting. In other words, wasnt just pulling the trigger into a crowd. He was pointing the gun and shooting and probably first four or five shots are unsuspecting victims who dont even know whats going on. He just starts. And then there is running and shooting becomes a little more, you know, space and he is aiming. And, you know, kind of transpiers litra transpires like. That it doesnt seem that some extremely well planned event rather, you know, this could be somebody done him wrong. He got humiliated. He could have been thrown out. He could be seek something sort of revenge on those who didnt do what he wanted them to do, greed plays a part. There is a lot of money involved in these things. There is some motives and some mixed motives that come to the top. Jim, im going to ask you to stick around for a little bit. We did just get some new sound. This is from an nbc affiliate on the scene who did an interview out with a local councilman in jacksonville. Lets watch this and well talk afterwards. He joins me now live. And councilman, i know you went in and you talked to some folks who were inside chicago pizza. What did they tell you happened . Well, unfortunately, they came here to the game last night. They are from savannah, georgia. A married couple with three little kids. The young man told me that they were eating pizza and they heard a lot of discussion on one guy got upset. He looked around the corner. He realized the game just got started. So he didnt pay no attention to what may have happened. And sow went back and sat down and he said less than 30 seconds he just heard bam, bam, bam, bam. He heard the shots. So him and his wife and the kids started running out the other door. His wife unfortunately, she dropped her pocketbook and keys. And so theyve been stuck around there for about 2 1 2 hours. I was trying to help them get their belongings so they can go back to georgia. So theyre a little frustrated. The other thing i learned since the last time you and i talked about reliable source, i dont know if im supposed to share this, the shooter himself took his own life. He killed three and took his own life. We dont know if hes from jacksonville yet. You heard the sheriff say hes a white male. But those are things that i learned so far. I also was told by this other family that it was others from georgia, they all here. They came to enjoy the game. And this is what they ran into. So councilman, we have not had the Sheriffs Department confirm that the shooter did take his own life. Police tell us that there is no shooter at large right now. But police told you that its going to be several more hours before anyone can get back into the landing. Is that right . Thats what they told me. Told me and the family who i was trying to help touchback with them in about three hours. That was about an hour and a half ago. So its going to be a while, yes. Well be here for a while. Councilman, thank you for your time. Im going to go check out and see what so you were listening to an nbc affiliate there on the scene interviewing councilman jacksonville reggie gafney. This has not been yet independently confirmed, certainly not confirmed by nbc news. It was also not reported by the Law Enforcement officials who briefed the reporters there on the scene shortly after the shooting happened. But according to the councilman, he was attributing it to a reliable source with the caveat that he was not yet sure fit should be reported or not saying that he believes the gunman took his own life. We do know that the shooter was identified as a white male. The name, age, any more information about the identity of the shooter remains at this time unknown to us at least in the media. Certainly possibly to the Law Enforcement as they continue this search. Interesting piece of information there as well, jim. He talked or at least according to this family he spoke to describing an argument that may have happened or may have preceded the shooting which came quickly afterwards, the shooting came quickly afterwards that argument was heard by this family that was out of state from savannah, georgia, eating at a local pizza shop nearby. It could be just enough time for someone to go to their vehicle and get a gun. Someone could be carrying a gun. They could go just go to their vehicle gaent a gun and come back. So shortly thereafter. And depends on impulse like that and if a person did kill himself or suicidal, you know, there is some humiliation involved. You know, they could have lost money at the tournament. They could have been, you know, kicked out of the tournament. They could have been not let in the tournament. There could be some other thing going on, some other dispute that didnt even involve the tournament between some people in there and he decided to shoot everybody. And maybe, maybe to kill himself. I mean it does happen in a number of these things that suicide follows. So if it goes on what facts we know, not all of those facts are confirmed, some are, some arent, but we do see maybe an event that hasnt been extremely deeply planned but nevertheless can be a i have tragic and horrific event. When a handgun is shot into a crowd of just, you know, a restaurant patrons. Yeah. And it seems to be at these events, these e supportisporti and its early to draw a connection between the shooter and the event itself. Maybe well find out if he was a participant. But to participate in an event like this, theres a lot of evidence, a lot of pieces of intelligence if you want to call it that that Law Enforcement will be able to use in compositing the profile of this shooter, right . Yeah. Youre exactly right. This is not going to be a mystery. The detectives are really probably have a lot of information that were not privy to at the moment. Its not going to be a mystery. The motive wont be a mystery. It will come clear in the next 48, 72 hoiurs. Its not going to be any relief to anybody of what when that occurs and when we find that out. Well go back to, you know, people who in their lives cant take any setbacks. Any setback they reach for the gun. On day when were celebrating the life of an American Hero who could take any setback and go on, john mccain, he could take any setback and keep going forward. But we have too many people, too many small people who get fired from a job or get in a fight in a bar, get lose some money, do one thing that happens in everybodys life and then they reach for the gun and kill everyone. So as a society, we really got to change that thought process when people are young, when people are young that, its your life. Youre going to get knocked down. You need to get back up. And that doesnt mean revenge on everybody. That sounds like we find ourselves in this tragedy after every one of these shootings. Ill ask you to stick around. We have a lot more to talk b well continue to follow this story. Straight ahead, were going to talk about the life and legacy of senator john mccain. Stay with us. Of senator john mcn stay with us heartburn and gas . Now fight both fast new tums chewy bites with gas relief all in one relief of heartburn and gas tum tum tum tums new tums chewy bites with gas relief the first survivor of alzis out there. Ase and the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Join the fight with the Alzheimers Association. But how do i know if im im getting a good deal . I tell truecar my zip and which car i want and truecar shows the range of prices people in my area actually paid for the same car so i know if im getting a great price. This is how car buying was always meant to be. This is truecar. Let someone else do the heavy lifting. 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So you just pay for data by the gig or unlimited. Saving you hundreds of dollars a year. Plus, get 300 back when you buy a new smartphone. Xfinity mobile. Its simple. Easy. Awesome. Click, call or visit a store today. Welcome back now. The death of senator john mccain as tributes continue to pour in today. While he never made it to the presidency in the senate, he was the leader that would see a hot spot in the world and said we need to go there and stand up for that democracy. He really understood the marrow of his bones what it meant to be an american. And how important it was for us to, yes, to disagree and differ. But at the end of the day, to come together, to work together, to trust each other, to get things done. Im going to miss him. Yeah. I have admired him, like i said, my entire life. And its tough to imagine a Senate Without him. Its tough to imagine politics without john mccain. So the nation preparing to hohn yort life a honor of the life and man who blazed the political trail. He died saturday after a battle with brain cancer. Joining me now nbcs mike vicara, former mccain adviser and National Political reporter jonathan allen. Mike, lets go to you. On capitol hill, excuse me, get an update on what the plans are to honor him there. I know that weve been updated within the last hour or so with some more specifics as to what we can expect. Well, thats right. The bottom line is that we know we did know that john mishg ca mccain was going to be honored this rare honor to lie in state of the capitol, a tradition that goes back to the mid 19th century. The second person to be afforded such an honor is abraham lincoln. John mccain, his casket will rest on the same support, a c catafulk, john mccain is only the 32nd person in American History to be afforded this honor. Youre right, we now have the details. The tick to beitock about how going to happen and when. The senator would have been his 82nd birthday on tuesday 29th. He will lie in state at the phoenix State Capitol there. The governor announcing that. And then wednesday the 30th, a service, the North Phoenix Baptist Church attended by the mccain family. After that, its complete, the ceremonies in arizona, senator mccain and his family will make their way aboard a military transport and land at andrews familiar to Many Americans as Andrews Air Force base. Not far from the capitol here in washington. And then a procession to come to the capitol and the rotunda where his remains will rest. A public viewing will be afforded. It will last roughly 24 hours. And then on friday im sorry, on thursday he arrives here, on friday he liesinstate. And then on saturday at the magnificent national cathedral, just across town, there will be a full memorial service, a dress service as they call it, for john mccain. It will be attended by president obama, president george w. Bush who will have speaking parts as we understand as will Vice President pence and a host of dignitaries, statesmen, colleagues from around the world. We just heard a sampling a moment ago of all of the comments and the praise coming in for this Great American statesman. Yeah. Indeed it is going to be quite a memorable moment for this nation to watch all those that will be speaking in the coming days about the legacy of this great American Hero. I know that you are former Campaign Adviser to senator mccain. Its great to you have with us to offer perspective and insight on the senators legacy. I want to separate his domestic policies from the Foreign Policy. Well get into the Foreign Policy, certainly not without controversy on the key decisions he made. But lets talk about from your perspective what the senators legacy is going to look like domestically. I think domestically, Campaign Finance reform is always going to be associated with mccainfeingold and the efforts to change our Campaign Laws which i think have been quite successful. The gift ban, for example, things that practices in washington were commonplace 20 or 30 years ago are no longer the case because of john mccain. So i think that will be really the centerpiece. There are so many things. I think every decade, richard, it had something, for example, of the opening to vietnam diplomatic relations. He worked with president clinton to do this. He worked with president bush an a number of initiatives regarding Immigration Reform and senator kennedy. That didnt come to fruition. People still look at that as a blueprint in 2007 and 2008. And, of course, his famous vote on the Affordable Care act. That really changed the course, i think, for the country in terms of what happens next on health care. I think there are so many major events domestically that not only were they played a pivotal role but he was the engine and motivator for change. If i have to pick one of the many, i would say Campaign Finance reform would ever be associated with john mccain. Lets switch perspectives and look on the Foreign Policy of things. Senator mccain celebrated as a war hero. But i think some people look back and his support for the iraq war. Something that he himself said he regretted. Obviously disastrous for this country. Disastrous for the middle east. He flipflopped a little bit on whether or not to close guantanamo bay. Some controversies surrounding his support for trying to block the iran deal. What do you think the Foreign Policy positions are going to look like, his legacy are going to look like . Well, if you ask me, heres what i think. I think he was consistent. I think he has his frustration with the iraq war was which i think was colored by his experience in vietnam is that we have a strategy. He was committed to defending our interests. In fact, people have always referred to him as a hawk. But a hawk meaning that was pretty human rights, democracy, everything we stand for first. But was unwilling to support strategies, be they republican or democratic that were not clearly defined. In terms of the long haul. As you might recall, some time during the iraq debate, he said he would be supportive of an intervention by the United States and iraq but to be there for decades. And this cost him a lot of support 10, 12 years ago. He was seen in the model of korea and reconstruction of europe. And on gouantanamo, i think he understood the need for security but he drew a line. And, of course this is the situation with waterboarding and torture which he himself had experienced. So i think he was not a perfect person. He is first to say that if he were here. He clearly understood and i think he put always first the principles and values that we hold dear. He was consistent be they democratic or republican administrations in his positions. Yeah. Certainly a kplefrm mcomplex ma. Jonathan, when Teddy Kennedy died nine years to the day before mccain, senator mccain was seen as the remaining towering figure in the senate. Cast a very large shadow over the conduct and the mannerisms and the decorum of the senate. Is there anyone who is capable of filling those shoes now that senator mccain has passed . No one will ever be capable of filling senator mccains shoes. A unique individual with a unique story line. You know, i think there are those like jeff flake who was interviewed earlier, you know, who is retiring but has decided to take on a role similar to mccain in terms of trying to trying to talk about and conduct themselves and demonstrate certain civility that is absent in our politics right now. The one word that keeps coming back in all of the statement thats are made about him is honor. This is a man who conducted himself with honor from the time he was a prisoner of war and refused early release, his captors were willing to let him go because he was the son of an admiral. He was in prison for 5 1 2 years. We saw him in that Campaign Rally moment that iconic moment when he rejected the woman who slammed president obama as being arab. This is somebody who understood that there were principles larger than himself who fought for them. A lot of people disagreed with him on particular issues or over the course of his career. But that conducting himself with honor is so important. And, again, so abscent in our politics right now. Senator clinton said he knew in the marrow of his bones what its like to be a politician. It is so amazing that a warrior is one of the few who was able to keep that faith throughout his career. All right. Jonathan, allen, mike, thank you for joining us this afternoon. Coming up, were continuing to watch the situation in jacksonville, florida, as it develops. Multiple fatalities reported at a video game tournament. The latest on what may have sparked that gunfire. Plus our coverage of the death of senator john mccain continues with a look at his tense relationship with President Trump and their fight for the sole soul of the Republican Party. Soul of the Republican Party vo love. I got it. I gotcha baby. vo its being there when youre needed most. Hes the one. vo love is knowing. It was meant to be. And love always keeps you safe. vo love is why we built a car you can trust for a long time. The allnew Subaru Impreza sedan and fivedoor. A car you can love no matter what road youre on. The Subaru Impreza. More than a car, its a subaru. Right now, get 0 apr financing on the 2018 Subaru Impreza. With our largest variety of crab all year like new crabfest combo. 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He just finished the final fwam. He heard shooting so he ran into the bathroom and locked the door and said if anything happens, i love you. And then we heard back that he was okay after a while, the police came in but two of his best friends were killed. That is the father of a witness describing the chaotic moments following a mass shooting in jacksonville, florida. The Sheriffs Office there says there are multiple deaths following a mass shooting at a video game tournament. A it happened at a downtown marketplace called Jacksonville Landing. Live from florida, good to have you with us. Bring us up to speed on what we learned this hour in terms of what happened. It was a very, very brief update. He didnt offer concrete numbers to the people who were killed or injured. We did our own digging here. The miami newsroom and we found out that out of the ten people transported, we have some of the conditions. Were told six patients were taken to one particular hospital, five of them were in good condition. But one of them was in very serious condition. Three others were taken to a different hospital. Were told they are now in stable condition. And another person with a minor injury was taken to at hospital. But again, as far as those are injured are concerned, were still trying to piece together exactly what their conditions are. What we are hearing from our nbc affiliate in jacksonville is that four people were killed in this mass shooting and that 11 people were injured. It was a chaotic scene that unfolded earlier this afternoon. A number of people had been at the Jacksonville Landing for that video game tournament. That was going on inside of a video bar. The Jacksonville Landing itself is a type of mall. Its a multistory structure. On the riverfront in Downtown Jacksonville right on the st. Johns river. Were expecting another update from the sheriff in the coming hours. All right. Thank you. Im sure youll stay on top of the latest developments for us. So the very latest white house drama ahead including President Trumps continuing war against his own attorney general. And what happened when Jeff Sessions finally decided to fight back . Ed to fight back us. Its what this country is made of. But right now, our bond is fraying. How do we get back to us . The y fills the gaps. And bridges our divides. Donate to your local y today. Because where theres a y, theres an us. You need a higher standard of craftsman. See for yourself at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. Get 2. 9 financing on the 2018 ls 500. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Experience amazing ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. 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To fear the world we have organized and led the three quarters of a century to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of International Leadership and our duty to remain the last best hope of earth for the sake of some half baked nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired doing ma dogma that people can add to the heap of history. This was evident yesterday in the president s tribute to the late senator when he posted this instagram tribute featuring a photo of not john mccain but the president himself. For more on this im joined by Betsy Woodruff, republican strategist and author of everything trump touches dies and a former Obama Administration official. Rick, let me begin with you, if i may. It is still jarring to hear that comment from then candidate trump about mccain being a hero only because he was captured and that he doesnt like people that were captured. But heres the interesting thing. We now kind of understand where trump comes from so many different angles when it comes to competition and rivals. But why didnt he pay a bigger political price within the Republican Party over that at the time . Look this is one of the mysteries of the 2016 election that moral revulsion over a Statement Like that wasnt sufficient to have a majority of republicans say, you know, this person is unacceptable as our candidate and as a leader and this person lacks the moral character and the discernment to be president. I think, you know, the people who objected to it at the time and stuck with that position have been proven out time and again that we were right about our objections. And, you know, the service of john mccain set aside anything you have objection about policy at any point, the iconic classic nature of john mccain, the rough elbows of john mccain sort of the whole thing set aside all that. He served in our military with honor and distinction. He served in a prisoner of war for 5 1 2 years. There is nothing Donald Trumps ever done in his life that rivals the courage and dedication of this nation. That mccain displayed. I think that wrangles trump a lot. And to that point, betsy, several people have criticized the president s tribute yesterday saying that there was no mention of mccains legacy. Some people even saying that the sentiment expressed was to his family but not to mccain him several and what he offered this country. What is at the rift of the president s anger or frustration or disappointment with senator john mccain . What is it about john mccain that the president cant seem to get himself to just offer this man his due credit . Trump has never been able to control mccain. While many republicans in the senate got in line and towed along with the trump agenda and refuse to criticize the president , mccain has been an outspoken critic of many of the undertakings that President Trump engaged in. And, of course, his vote against repealing the Affordable Care act is pivotal. Kept that legislation in place. That is something that drove President Trump crazy. He was irate b he made his anger clear both publicly and privately and anyone close to the president can tell you that that now famous moment when mccain gave a thumbs down late at night on a senate floor saving that the aca was really a central and central part of understanding why trump has so much anger for mccain. That said, of course, trumps distaste for mccain goes back for years now. Mccain rements the older Republican Party view of the way the world is supposed to work. Supporting free trade and immigration and supporting robust and warm transatlantic relations. You know, globalism. These are all things that trump is essentially allergic to and in which he built his brand around opposing. So even on just the policy issues, you know, you have trouble finding a republican in washington who disagreed with trump on more. I think that combination of disposition and policy, disagreemen disagreements is a big part of the reason why the president is so reserved and withdrawn from the National Mourning process of mccain. Jake, i want to ask you about this iconic moment that happened back in 2008 when senator mccain was running against obama. He was believed at a town hall. A woman stood up and its a moment that is often cited as an example of the political civility that john mccain represented. Lets watch this. I got to ask you a question. I dont believe in i cant trust obama. I have read about him. And hes not hes a hes an arab. He is not no, maam. No, maam. No . No, maam. No, maam. Hes a decent family man, citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and thats when this campaign is about. Hes not. It didnt go far enough. Some people felt that mccain could have handled that moment better in saying so what if he were . Thats not an insult. Thats not drog torey. But im curious to get your perspective from the Obama Campaign at the time. What was that moment in term of significance for the Obama Campaign . I think it was important to see an example of someone standing up to the base of the Republican Party who were saying things like. That but i also think it wasnt just important to the Obama Campaign. I think its an important commentary on where the Republican Party was then and where it is now. Because at the time, the leadership of the Republican Party stood with john mccain. In that moment, they stood with john mccain and they they supported him. Today, the leadership of the Republican Party would stand with the woman in red. You got the birther in chief, you have donald trump who made his political fortune by denigrating barack obama and spreading a racist lie that he was not born in the United States. So i think it is a sad commentary on where the Republican Party has been thats its leaders used to stand up against this kind of attack and where it is now that they actively encourage it. From that perspective, let me ask you, is there any fault that senator john mccain for bringing somebody like sarah palin into the mainstream of National Politics . I think some critics would say in bringing her on as his vicepresident ial candidate or nominee, he legitimatized that part of the Republican Party. I think thats true. I think, you know, you have sarah palin during that campaign saying that barack obama was palling around with terrorists and that was certainly a slur. She certainly encouraged the kind of know nothing birtherism that we see widely in the Republican Party today. Look, i think as you heard from many people already over the last day or so, you know, john mccain would not call himself a perfect person. But he was certainly better than much of what you see in the Republican Party today. Rick, i want to get your final thought on that as well. What is the fault here in terms of the soul for the Republican Party, the fight that took place between the john mccains and what he represented and then the sarah palins and the trumps and the wing that john mccain to some extent paved the way for . I disagree strongly that john mccain, you know, created the donald trump wing of the party. The trump wing of the party is nationalist estatism based parn an authoritarian personality cult. That is definitely not part of the thing that emerged from this. We can litigate sarah palin a lot. But you look at the totality of john mccains career, as a republican and as a conservative, i would sure as hell rather have john mccains running this party than Donald Trumps running this party by any stretch of the imagination. All right. Rick wilson, Betsy Woodruff and jake maccobey. Great to have you with us. Thank you for your time. We continue to follow that shooting at a madden video game tournament in jacksonville, florida. Multiple fatalities reported. The gunman also dead. Well have the very latest when we come back. Well have the very latest when we come back its easy to think that all Money Managers are pretty much the same. But while some push High Commission investment products, Fisher Investments avoids them. Some advisers have hidden and layered fees. Fisher investments never does. And while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, Fisher Investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. 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Some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. I discovered the potential with ozempic®. Oh oh oh ozempic® vo ask your Healthcare Provider if ozempic® is right for you. I put an attorney general that never took control of the Justice Department, Jeff Sessions, never took control of the Justice Department. He took the job and then said im going to recuse myself. What kind of a man is this . By the way, he was on the campaign. The only reason i gave him the job, i felt loyalty. President trump once again slamming his own attorney general Jeff Sessions, and warn sessions to take control of the Justice Department as special Counsel Robert Mueller gets his first trial conviction in the russian investigation. The former Campaign Chairman was found guilty on eight felony counts of tax and bank fraud. Two of the president s closest associates, david pecker and Allen Weisselberg in exchange for information, cohen implicated the crimes in his times on tuesday after breaking Campaign Finance laws. The only person who can bring an end to all of this is the man who President Trump has been attacking. Joining me now to break this down, harry litman and former Deputy Assistant attorney general and Betsy Woodruff. Let me begin with you. We talk when the news broke, Jeff Sessions trying to fight back with a statement saying he wouldnt let the department of justice to be improperly influenced by politics, which only led to further attacks from President Trump. How does sessions you think continue with this kind of public show of no competence, the constant be ratement by the president of him and have any credibility . Yeah, i mean, its unprecedented. Its humiliating but there are two kinds of credibility at issue. One is with the president and i thnk hes concluded thats a lost cause, one is within the building and his own prosecutors and the people at doj. I think here hes concluded this was for him a very firm standup statement. We will do things without regard to politics. It was very long and coming but i think he is now planting the flag in favor of the institutional forces of doj and kind of taking a long range bet on them rather than the president. Let me play you guys the sound bite from former attorney general Alberto Gonzalez who served bush 43, talking about the possibility of a sessions firing. Watch this. I fear that because the president is head of the executive branch and recan remove the attorney general any time he wants that it continues criticism without taking any action, i fear makes the president look a little weak. It has a long term effect on the morale at the department of justice and undermines the integrity of how people view the american justice and how the American People review the institution and i think thats very, very dangerous. Betsy, to add to Alberto Gonzalez, you had Lindsey Graham all saying they expect a change at the attorney generals office, possibly after the midterm elections. What are you hearing from your sources . Is it inestable that the president will fire Jeff Sessions . Its hard to say. I havent gotten any sense theres a total certainty on either side as to how the president will handle this matter. I think its too soon to try to say with a high degree of confidence that trump is definitely going to fire sessions. However, at the same time, sessions is in obviously a really tough spot and been going on for months and months now. A person close to the attorney general told me preently that hes found this slew of attacks to be both humiliating and isolating. The people who traditionally would be defending the Jeff Sessions very conservative law and order crew aiders of the world are the people of fox news and theyve completely thrown sessions under the bus. Approximates prime time hosts go out of the way to lamb bast sessions, hes a deep state conspiracy or trying to take down the president , conspireing with liberal democrats like bob mueller, allegedly. Sessions has found himself without any strong surrogates defending him in the public sphere but he has been dealing with since the earliest days of his time as attorney general. One of the big challenges for the white house will be calculating if its worth the political backlash that would inevitably sue if they were to fire sessions and that political calculus cant be made until after the mid terms. Its no the president disagrees with the attorney general in a respectsful way but questions his manhood, what kind of man is this that would do Something Like this . Harry, there was an interesting poll, nbc news poll really when asked if trump was honest and truthful, about the Mueller Probe, 56 disagreed, 46 of those strongly disagreed. What would a sessions firing mean for the Mueller Probe . Well, by the way, who are the 44 . It seems so clear that hes been dishonest here as another instance. But it would be trouble right away except i think mueller and the probe have already laid plans and they have contingencies in place. Most notably, you know, the whole cohen probe is now in the hands of the sdny but the russia probe is in the hands of the National Security division. I think as betsy says, hes been lambas lambasting him for months and it does sort of make him look weak he hasnt pulled the trigger. The direct answer to you is that the day mueller is fired the day sessions is fired, he could even without a confirmed attorney general, put in an acting person who would be who could put the kibosh or brakes on the investigation governed only by political forces. So it would be very consequential. Legally speaking and we dont have a lot of time. Give me your cliff notes version of this. Can the president assume his next attorney general, if he does in fact fire Jeff Sessions could only be hired if he is going to shut down the russia probe or would that be perceived as an obstruction of justice . My guess is would be a step too far at this point. My quick take he cant ask the next attorney general. He cant ask the next attorney general youll get the job if you shut this down . Oh, saying that would for sure be obstruction. Would he be accountable . Whos to say. Harry litman, appreciate your insight and Betsy Woodruff as well. The Sheriffs Office in jacksonville says there are multiple deaths following a mass shooting at the video game tournament at downtown marketplace Jacksonville Landing. Moments ago the Jacksonville Sheriff tweeted inaccurate numbers being located by local and national media. This is fluid, as soon as we have confirmed numbers, this will be released. We have a new update from the florida governors office, rick scott saying he has spoken to President Trump personally about the shooting. Joining me now retired afrmt tf special agent in charge jim kavanaugh. As we go off the air here, we have about 90 seconds left or so. Give me your final thoughts in terms of the investigation and where its going. What have you seen that leads you one way or the other . Well, its going to be going all night. It going to be going into next couple of days, frenically theyll put more information out to the public and try to work with the families of the victims for sure to give them some answers. Looks like one shooter who is deceased likely by suicide. I think the answers are going to come rolling in. The motive, you know, they are going to find out. I think they probably have a handle on that already. Its a sad okay, ayman, horrible case. It just for these families to have to deal with this, its just an awful thing. Its florida has very loose gun laws. They lead the nation a lot of times in loosening up all of the gun laws so who knows what gun laws were affected in this and that is a big question in any case mass shooting like this. But the motivations will all want to know for the reason that maybe you could stop the next killer. Theres no doubt. Its not going to help the family. The anguish and misery and pain is all to follow and nothing is going to alleviate that. I was about to say express that same exact sent. We try to analyze and talk about policy but at the end of the day, none of that will provide any comfort for the families of what often times are young people who participate in these e sporting events. Our thoughts and prayers with the victims and their families this evening. Thank you very much. That will do it for me. Join me back here next sunday at 5 00 p. M. To break down the major stories of the week and you can reach out to me on social media at any time. Join kasie hunt for kcdc. First its meet the press. This sunday, the passing of an american original. John mccain, war hero, icon of integrity and political maverick died late yesterday four days shy of his 82 pd birthday. A prisoner of year for five and a half years for north vietnam. I fell in love when i was a prisoner in someone elses. This is a man that well all want to watch. His name is john mccain. Republican president ial nominee against barack obama with a sense of history. Senator obama has achieved a great thing for himself and for his country. I applaud him for it. A fearless critic even of a president of