That they believe is not authorized. I look at the obstruction part of the argument this way. He didnt obstruct. Can win it on the faction, cant be indicted or questioned because it interferes with the president. I no one is given absolute power by our constitution. The whole idea that he cant be charged with obstruction of justice, the last time that ever happened in this country was when we were ruled by king george. So we want to break down right now the legal issues involved in three specific areas that the memo addresses. Is the president above the law when it comes to obstruction of justice as the memo suggests . Can the president simply refuse to testify if Robert Mueller issues a subpoena . And with the revelation that the president himself dictated the misleading statement about the trump tower meeting, does lying to the media and public have any legal significance . Weve got all three of those covered with among the very best to discuss them, those issues with us those include jill winebanks, former special prosecutor and msnbc contributor and Donald Goldman and david ignatius, former columnist for the washington post. Great to have you with us. Jill, let me begin with you. Trumps legal team is arguing that you cant even pursue the president for obstruction writing, it remains our position that the president s actions here by virtue of his position as the chief Law Enforcement officer could neither constitutionally nor legally constitute obstruction because that would amount to him obstructing himself and that he could, if he wished, terminate the inquiry or even exer ice his power to pardon if he so desired. It certainly seemed like a lot of legal jargon there, but obstruction was right there right there at the top of the articles of impeachment prepared against Richard Nixon so is trumps legal team correct here, do you think . I think that it is one of the most terrifying things ive ever read, amendnd i hope everyone listening realizes what a wakeup call this is to america because if the president is above the law in the way that he can totally control everything, then we do not have a rule of law. You have a dictatorship. No president can possibly be allowed to have this kind of unfettered power. It is absolutely wrong. It is certainly impeachable. We know that because it was the first article of impeachment against Richard Nixon, and it cannot be allowed to stand. It is a very, very wrong thing. David, this notion of the president somehow being above the law, whats the potential damage of that the nation, to our democratic and judicial institutions . Well, this assertion is that the president is the law because he controls the executive branch and the justice department. He has the absolute authority to end investigations, and its extraordinary. I think if this argument is pressed, it will go to the Supreme Court, and it will be absolutely a landmark case. If you look ati reactions today even by some prominent Trump Supporters, prominent republicans, you see that this may have been a bridge too far for trumps lawyers to have argued, chris christie, a former Trump Campaign associate surrogate, that called the argument if i heard him right outrageous, kind of a ken terrorist republican, will hurd, part of the new wave republicans in the house was very critical and skeptical of these arguments. This may have been a case of overreach even in giulianis response, the comment that might lead quickly to impeachment that the president tried to pardon himself and assert this coined of authority, that struck as telling. Let me read you part of the argument here and the president s legal team and kind of go indepth on why the president shouldnt have to testify. Having him testify demeans the office of the president before the world. The imposition on the time and attention to the president caused by this inquiry has already inflicted damage on the president and his office. The time and attention that would be required to prepare for an interview is significant and would represent a continued imposition that would directly impact the nation. Heres what trump attorney Rudy Giuliani said about that on abc this week. So youre still recommend he does not sit down for the interview. Jay and i want to keep an open mind and i have to be honest, were lean towards not. Daniel, first of all, this is a president who has spent more time on the golf course than some professional golfers to be exact. Is time really an issue here . Is it a legitimate local reason that they can use if mueller subpoenas the president . No. The short answer is no. In fact, that was decided by the Supreme Court in the paula jones case against bill clinton where that was essentially the argument, that hes president , that he should not have to sit for a deposition in a civilization and the Supreme Court said thats wrong. He did have to and that and that theres a way to work around it and will accommodate his schedule and thats just the civil case and generally the law views california cases to be of a little more significance and seriousness than civil cases that generally just deal with money. This is life, liberty, et cetera, so i think i was surprised that they trotted out that argument which has been pretty clearly dismissed by the Supreme Court. I was surprised that they miscited a statute for obstruction of justice in the letter. To the extent that they were hoping to persuade Robert Mueller, those are not very effective arguments, and as a prosecutor reading the letter, i would look at that and that would undermain the credibility of all of their other arguments as well. So one of the big revelations that kind of emerged from this letter is an admission that President Trump himself dictate that had infamous statement put out by don jr. That claimed the trump tower motoring was about russian adoption. This was during the campaign. In fact, trumps spokeeople had flatly denied that in the past. Take a listen to this, guys. The statement that was released on saturday was released by donald trump jr. Im sure in consultation with his lawyers. The president wasnt involved in that. I do want to be clear in, that the president was not involved in the drafting of the statement and did not issue the statement. It came from donald trump jr. So thats what i can tell you he certainly didnt dictate but, you know, he like i said, he weighed in, offered suggestion, like any father would do. Thats now very different than what weve learned from the letter. The legal team basically argues that lying to the press and the American People is a private matter and not of interest to the special counsel. Jill, help us understand this. Are they correct in argument that they are making that lying to the press is insignificant for the president and is also a private matter. Well, first of all, l me say that not every father would do that. My father was a man of great integrity and would have never advised me to lie and would have never participated in a lie, so they are wrong on that. They are wrong on the law. They are wrong on every aspect of this. The president , its very interesting, is now admitting that he did dictate. Its in very clear language in the letter, that he was responsible for it, and it is as false statement. It is true it is not a crime to lie to the public, but it is an impeachable offense. We learned that from watergate. Its also something that voters should and will take into account in elections coming for. If the president is lying to them and add hitting that hes lying to them, then they have to hold him accountable, so it should be something that will load to either impeachment or to a loss of the election coming forward. Let me let me, dave, play you the sound bite from Rudy Giuliani. He haves obviously been doing the media rounds again. He had something very interesting to say about that donald jr. Statement. Take a listen. Jay would have to answer, that and ive talked to him about it. I think jay was wrong. This is the reason you dont let the president testify. All recollection keeps changing or were not even asked a question and somebody makes an assumption. Our recollection keeps changing as a reason not to let trump testify. Thats a pretty telling comment, david. What is your reaction to that . How do you interpret the lawyer of the president saying our recollection keeps changing. Well, Rudy Giuliani is the strangest counsel for the president. Talk about changing, you know, versions of whats going on. I think that was made a moment ago is the one we need to remember which is that in the end the offenses if they exist that were committed by the president would be left under our system probably to political judgment in an impeachment process, and what he said, the way individuals, the scripting of donald trump jr. s statement is going to be relevant to any proceed, and whether or not its a legally culpable offense i think misses the point. Were heading towards i think a process of political judgment about this, and thats thats form it and that form is absolutely crucial. And speak of political judgment, danielle, the letter addresses the president s tactic of going after the fbi and the department of justice publicly. In fact, they say, its also worth responding to the popular suggestion that the president s public criticism of the fbi either constitutes obstruction or serves as evidence of obstruction. Such criticism ignores the sacred responsibility of the president to hold his subordinates accountable. After all, the fbi is not above the law, and we are now learning of the disappointing results of a lack of accountability in both the department of justice and the fbi. Does that defense hold any water, do you think . I dont think i think they are trying to make a broader point about the optics of this investigation and some of the errors or snafus that the fbi encountered and executed, particularly during the Hillary Clinton email investigation oddly enough, but i do think you have to take a step back and take a little bit of a deep breath and remember the context of the letter. This is a legal letter to the special counsel that is putting forth legal defenses, so when they say t the president cannot be charged with obstruction of justice, they are not saying, and Rudy Giuliani made that clear today, that he cant be impeached for obstruction of justice. They are simply just saying that he he cannot be indicted for obstruction of justice. I do think thats wrong and giuliani walked that back because if the president murdered someone and there was an investigation into it and he fired jim comey because he was investigating it, that would be a problem, so just remember a little bit of the context that this is more of a technical legal argument trying to convince the special counsel essentially not to make donald trump testify. All right. Im go to ask daniel and david to stick around and jill, thanks so much for joining us. Outside of president s clearinghouse winners, nobody has been happier to get an oversized envelope than donald trump was this week but words from kim jongun are one thing and what actions can we expect from the north korean dictator when he sit down with the president . Well talk about that next. Loved every step of fatherhood. And made old cars good as new. But i couldnt bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer, so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. Lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. Tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. Common side effects dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs, and feet. Dont drink alcohol while taking lyrica. Dont drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. 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He announced this tactic after announcing the summit was back on. He revived the talks when the top aide kim jong alcohol handdelivered a letter from kim jongun to the president. Joining me now is former u. N. Ambassador to the United Nations and former governor of new mexico ambassador richardson and davidig faceus is back. Are you worried that trump is trying to play an advantage with some of the photoops and scenes that weve been seeing. I amoncerned. The summit is nine days away and weve changed strategy. The president is saying hes for a phased denuclearization, that were going into a negotiating process, that kim jongun is basically, you know, very sincere. Now, look, these are positions we should have taken position. We should have a strategy. I dont think we have a strategy. The second problem is weve got too many mixed messages. Secretary of state pompeo has done a good job. Two meetings with kim jongun. He established the intelligence channel. You know, he went to new york with the spy chief and kind of straightened things out and then youve got the secretary of defense, you know, a very respectable guy and then previously we had the Vice President and we had john bolton talking about the libya model which scared the north koreans because gadhafi ended up dead. You know, one, get one messenger and, two, get a strategy. Weve got nine days to go. I still think this summit can yield some positive results so lets keep going. David, the president can sound a slightly more cautious tone on the talks. Take a listen. It will be a beginning. I dont say and ive never said it happens in one meeting. Its a process. Were not going to sign were not going to go in and sign something on june 12. We never were. Were going to start a process, and i said told them today. Take your time. We can go fast. We can go slowly. Do you think, david, that the president tamping down expectations is a smart strategy here, or is he hedging his bets a little bit in. Good to tamp down expectations and good in terms of President Trumps own psychology. People feared he would go in so eager to make the big deal that he would agree to things that werent in the u. S. Interest, so it is good for him to reduce the expectations. It is confusing to have so many different articulations of what the u. S. Goal is. Secretaryattis reit rated our goal is cvid, complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization, and that sooemd seemed to contradict what the president is calling a phased process. If its confusing to the north koreans, certainly its confusing to all of us. Yesterday it was reported that the white house had to find a third party to pay for the north koreans hotel rooms for the summit, believe it or not. Ambassador richardson, youve been toorth korea eight times. Is that a sign that the president s promise of a prosperous north korea is a strategy . Is that something that the north korean regime that fears capitalism or modernizing its economy, that it could lose its grip on power if in fact the country becomes prosperous as the president claims . No, you know, the north koreans always do this. They make you pay for everything. Ive been there several times. They feed you and then they make you pay for it. Use their telephones, this is common practice, and by the way, i think david ignasius is an icon. They say they want denuclearization and when you look at timelines and what is most important here is detailed inspections, timelines. Are they going to find a way to get out of this agreement . Potentially. I think theres a lot of good things that can happen. Missile curbs, nuclear curbs, no exports of chemical weapons to libya, nuclear and missile exports, none of that. Conventional weapons we lev for japan and technology curbs on future development on missiles and nuclear and also human rights issues, the remains of our soldiers from the career won. Get some of those remains back. This used to be an ongoing program. I still back the president on could go this summit but be ready and be prepared. Youve got nine days and let pompeo run the show. Just maybe keep quiet which is impossible for him and find a strategy. Weve got nine days to go, maybe six or seven because it takes several days to get to singapore. Whats the best outcome that could come out of the singapore talks or summit . I think governor richardson mentioned the list. I think i focused on just one and if as part of the process we had a peace treaty finally between north and south korea. That could include limits on conventional weapons, the 25,000 or so rocket 2xs pointed to seoul. If that one thing was done not denuclearization, and i think as the governor said, theres a range of things to flow from this. You have to be smart and careful. Certainly a few days away. See how all that have plays out. Great to have both of you with us. Coming up, from roseanne to a controversial new member of Donald Trumps team, is islam phobia alive and well in america . And a tale of two different personalities and a tale of two different media outlets, a different version of we said they said is next. vo what if this didnt have to happen . I didnt see it. vo what if we could go back . What if our car. Could stop itself . In iihs frontend crash prevention testing, nobody beats the subaru impreza. Not toyota. Not honda. Not ford. The subaru impreza. More than a car, its a subaru. Booking a flight doesnt have to be expensive. Just go to priceline. Its the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40 . Just tap and go. 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Now when the roseanne story first broke, it appeared to be a rare instance of mainstream and conservative outlets agreeing on a hot button issue that the sitcom star had gone too far. Roseanne barr made some really incendiary and pretty appalling comments on twit f it was a stone cold racist comment. It wasnt a joke. It was meanspirited. It was vile. Roseanne barr tweeting something so abhorrent i wish i didnt have to repeat it. All right. But there were some notable cracks in that view. I dont understand it to be anything other than free speech. Like shes saying and its extrooee extremely offensive and its just that. All that happening the same night this network, msnbc, broadcast a town hall everyday racism in america. Valerie jarrett was a part of the guest panel. Here she is address the controversy. I think we have to turn it into a teaching moment. Im fine. Im worried about all the people out the who dont have a circle of friends and followers who come right to their defense. This wasnt the first time that Roseanne Barr had committed an offense. Shes hurled numerous homophobic and insults in the past leading many to question whether abc should have known better to begin with. As risks go, roseanne came with a ton of them. How did abc think that was going to go . But then days later samantha bee used the c word in reference to ivanka trump and while she was condemned for her language. She should be fired. She is a a vile, disgusting. The c word is outrageous, unsemable and should be called out. Unlike barr though bee didnt lose her show and there were then claims of a double standard in the two cases. You people you cant say anything about because they are black, transgender, muslim. Thats right. And it means only people who are associated with trump. All right. So while the racism part of roseannes tweet grabbed the headlines for good reason, the first part of her tweet has actually largely gone unnoticed. As a reminder and heres the tweet on your screen. Roseanne treated Muslim Brotherhood and planet of the apes had a baby equals v. J. Referring to valle jarrett, a black woman born in iran to american parents. The antimuslim sentiments that have tweet really has gotten no attention whatsoever and until now. I want to bring in our greats, author of american islamophobia and with the Detroit School of law. The reporter for al jazeeras year long investigation and a political reporter for the guardian. Great to have all of you join us. Weve seen very little condemnation of the Muslim Brotherhood part of that tweet. I dont think a lot of people picked up on it, obviously the focus has been on racist part of it. Do you think she would have lost her show if that was the only part of the tweet and didnt make the racist reference . Not at all. I dont think she would have lost her show if she stopped typing after the Muslim Brotherhood. I think we can see from her twitter timeline over the years, we can see from her Television Show, we can see from the language that shes engaged in, that you know, antimuslim rhetoric that islamophobia is not only justifiable, something weve given a pass to whether its, you know, highprofile celebrity like roseanne or whether its a politician like trump so i think not. I think she would have kept her show if she didnt make the statement the antiblack rates of statement likening Valerie Jarrett to an ape. So i know, that simon, rose answer, has a history of this kind of thing. She tweeted that jarrett was a secret muslim operative and has retweeted memes that the Obama Administration was filled with members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Tell us a little bit about the history behind how and why the label of using the Muslim Brotherhood is a smear tactic among certain members of the conservative or right in this country. When shes accuse her of being part of the Muslim Brotherhood, what shes accusing her being a seditious element, a secret society set to undermine american values. With the Islamophobia Movement in america the Muslim Brotherhood is a label like communism was used decades ago. They paint it as an octopus with tentacles in all aspects of political society. The islamophobia industry accused congressmen who are muslim of being part of the Muslim Brotherhood and its to undermine the american political voice and thats the intent and desire and outcome. I want to turn to the administration itself. Wall street journal story about the chief of staff hired away from an antimuslim group called center for american policy, one of the more controversial one saying he coauthored a book saying 80 of mosques are incubators at best subverse and at worst violence and should be treated accordingly. A senior Vice President for policy and programs says the Muslim Brotherhood has achieved influence over the highest ranks of the u. S. Government and there should be a new house on american Activities Activity to root out secret muslims in government. Sabrina, how does someone like this with these views, who represented an organization with its track record as being one of the most notorious islamophobic organizations get such an important position on the National Security council . Well, i think its notable that will there are a number of officials in this administration who have espoused what one can open openly you have a president who openly campaigned on banning all muslims from coming into the u. S. , flirted with the idea of a Muslim Registry and made false claims of muslims celebrating on the roof of new jersey after 9 11. That, of course, never happened and hes continued to use a lot of the same language talking about muslims as president and it sets a tone from the top. I think a lot of antimuslim rhetoric used to be more on the fringe and now its very much part of the mainstream of the Republican Party because President Trump himself as we know has made many derogatory statements about it and hes never really walked them black. Interestingly to that point that sabrina brought up about this becoming more mainstream, i know you recently wrote an article for the guardian and it has an interesting point to it that theres islamophobia on the rise among the liberals in what is called liberal islamophobia saying its more insidious than right wing bigotry. Why do you say that . Yeah. I think, above all, its dangerous to caricature islamophobia something specifically coming from the right. Its more explicit, more brazen on the right with politicians like trump and with personalities like roseanne, but its also present on the left. I think you see some of the same stereotypes and see some of the same simplistic assessments coming from really popular celebrated figures on the left. Bill maher comes to mind. On his Television Show hes said the same harmful, vile of muslims as being a monolithic and demonous element so i think what is happening on the right is in some respects emboldening the rise on the level. The correlation is really critical. Very interesting when you see it on both sides, both on the liberal side as well as the conservative side. I know youve investigated this islamophobia inc. For a year. How deeply rooted is this in American Culture and American Society and our politics . I think now thats completely interwoven with the conservative movement in america. Youve got millions and millions of dollars from funding organizations and flowing into organizations that the splc will say are antimuslim. Some are receiving millions from the donors trust and Donors Capital Fund and dark money and donation vehicles for the conservative movement. These are organizations which in the previous history of funded organizations of the Heritage Foundation now funding the security for islamic policy, fringe members five years ago w going to Donald Trumps white house. Very quickly you wrote an article about reporting while muslim got a lot of attention. Certainly went viral. How did you comfort president ial election back then when you looked at it . Can you speak to how the president s rhetoric has affected you and others in the u. S. And does it give you any hope that this year the president will hold a ramadan dinner since were here, hold it while were in the month of ramadan. Last year the president broke with tradition and did not host the annual white house and no indication that he plans to reverse course and reinstate that this year. I think ultimately the fundamental point here is that the president s changed since the campaign. There was a great deal of speculation as to whether he would props mediate some of his words once he understand the power of the office and said you have seen him continuing to engage in some of the incendiary rhetoric any time that there is a terrorist attack and jumping to conclusions before we even have the appropriate intelligence and certainly you again, youve not seen this president ever apologize, so even as the white house expresses outrage, for example, the initial purpose postsegment over what samantha bee said about ivanka trump no, one in this administration has issued any apology for any statements that they have ever made. Again, it goes back to the point that the tone is ultimately set from the top. Its safe to say that anyone would have probably taken offense to that smear by roseanne in reference to Valerie Jarrett being a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Great to have your this evening. Coming up, rewrite history. In the trump legal memo to Robert Mueller they portray the president as ma hero in the firing of former National Security adviser michael flynn. This video just this. Tonight show host jimmy fallon, the surprise Commencement Speaker at this afternoons Marjory StonemanDouglass High School commencement in florida, site of februarys shooting tragedy. He tweeted class of 2018, you are not just the future, you are the president. Ep changing the world and keep making us proud. The next big thing in food was once a little paper box. Now we can easily take out food from a restaurant. Lets stay in and bingewatch the snow. Genius. Now, the next big thing is the Capital One Savor card. Good choice babe. Oh, wait, hold on. Earn 3 cash back on dining, 2 on groceries, and 1 on all other purchases. Whats in your wallet . When this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. 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The memo tries to explain in what a lot of peoples minds has been one of the most damaging moments for the president. Here it is. Take a listen. He made a recommendation, but regardless of recommendation i was going to fire comey knowing there was no good time to do it, and, in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. And the president s lawyers argue in that memo that because the president went on to say that he knew the investigation might be lengthened by comey firing his comment to lester holt has actually been mischaracterized to suggest that russia was the sole reason for the firing. Jen, let me begin with you. Is that a reason, do you think, thats likely to resonate with Trump Supporters . Are they going to buy that the president , you know, even though he knew that firing comey was going to lengthen the investigation is not evidence that he was trying to obstruct justice . Well, i think what does resonate with not only Trump Supporters but the American People are the powers, the executive powers granted to the president and the u. S. Constitution. I think in particular that appealsed to inpent voters a lot, and ill talk about that in a minute. The president ial powers, you know, arent specific to one president to the next so President Trump has those at his disposal. To paraphrase barack obama, you know. If you like your president ial oh, you can keep your president ial powers. They do transfer from one president to the other by way of the office. Case in point the case in point is the interpretation. I dont think anyone isnt saying he shouldnt have president ial powers but issue is what hes asking for and what the lawyers are arguing in the memo completely relevant to what president ial powers are. I with us. Finish your thought. If you look at bill clinton evoked president ial powers in march of 1998 in the Monica Lewinsky matter. He wanted two of his top aides he wanted the conversations to be not drawn into that investigation. That was actually struck down two months later by federal judge. That may be the case here. This may go all the way to the u. S. Supreme court. And they may deny President Trump. I do agree with his legal team. He has unfeddered power. He has the power to fire Rod Rosenstein and fire Robert Mueller. I believe as someone thats been in pr and politics for 15 years, the reason hes not doing so is just here purely public relatio. Do you think he should fire them . I do not. If you look at a quinnipiac poll that came out today, it is interesting. It shows the voters Approval Ratings on this, its odd that were testing the Approval Rating of a special counsel. But that is the media climate we live in. But that showed that even though people do still trust by and large Robert Mueller, the special counsels Approval Rating is down ten points. That is pretty significant. You hear democrats talk about how well thought of mueller is. It its actually gone down 10 . Thats happened at the same time President Trumps Approval Ratings have gone up 7 . So thats a 17 point gap tlac. T that is pretty significant. The most important point is that it shows that nearly twothirds of americans say they would not blame President Trump if he fires Robert Mueller, in fact 5shgs 55 of the American People including independents say they would oppose a law passed by congress. So there is a lot to break down. I want to go to the original point she is making. The president has unfeddered power. And somehow i dont want to parra phrase incorrectly here. The powers that he is asking for are powers that are legitimate and are legally valid. We wont know that unless it is challenged. What is your legal reading of that memo . If you go down the logical rational behind the view that the president can do whatever he wants in terms of firing anybody for any reason, pardonening anybody for any reason, we get way off course of where our country is. And you ultimately get to the point that the president would be above the law. There is no question he has the power to fire people. But theres there are a lot of powers that people have in this country. But you cannot use them corruptly. And thats really what the law is designed to protect against. So its not a function i dont disagree with jen. Of course, he has the power to fire rosenstein. He doesnt have the power to fire mueller. But there may be an end run around it. But he could fire his cabinet. He has the executive. He can do it. But what you get to the point when hes doing it for corrupt purposes or and particularly for personal reasons, then you start running afoul of the tradition of law in this country. Let me play you guy theres sound bite. There is the president s ultimate ace card Rudy Giuliani saying that he seems to have the power to pardon possibly even pardon himself. Take a listen to Rudy Giuliani. Do you and the president s attorneys believe the president has the power to pardon himself . He hes not but he probably does. He has no intention of pardoning himself. But he probably does. That doesnt say he cant. The president of the United States pardoning himself would just be unthinkable. And would lead to immediate impeachment. So does this seem like a road the president might consider regardless of the reprecushions . Well, its lard hard to say the Long Term Strategy will be. But personal in this period of time, weve seen the president s legal team take a much more aggressive posture toward Robert Mueller and his investigation. And i think a lot of that has less to do with the legal battle ahead as much as it does fighting this battle in the court of public opinion. And so i think the point stands that is no president is above the law and would raise a great deal of questions if he were to pardon himself. I think what he is trying to do is lay the ground work to at a minimum discredit the work of rob robert mule easte Robert Mueller so regardless of the conclusion of the investigation, hes going to leave it to the American Public to decide if they believe tha the investigation was conducted fairly. And there is polling to suggest that he is it winning that fight at least in the minds of republicans. A ma jojority of whom agree wit the president that this investigation is a witch hunt even though there is no evidence to support the president s claim as such. Republicans on capitol hill i think they really hold the key as to whether or not there would be any action taken against this president by congress. So far they have, of course, been far more supportive of the president than they have been critical throughout this investigation. Jen, injuyour thoughts. Should the president ardon him snefl. I agree with rudy jew lany. He probably has the power if you look at the powers of executive privilege from a pr stand point. I dont think that is a good idea. Nor do i think well come to. That but well see. Do you think that the president has acted in a way legally at least that hes making a case that he is above the law, that he doesnt have the time to sit for a subpoena even though he spent more time on the golf course than any other president . Thats a pretty significant thing to make an argument that time is a factor when in reality he seems to have a lot of time. Well, look, i think he does have time. And theyve taken the time to give 1. 4 million documents to the special counsels office. Its interesting to see his claim why he would like to speak to President Trump. Mueller stated he wants to just corroborate a few details with the president. If thats the case, then thats fine. But if you cant determine if the president did wrong or not by looking through 1. 4 political million documents, thats tough to state. Mueller hasnt stated anything this entire investigation. That is either a leak from trump side or trums lawyers who say what mueller has said. But he has not said anything. Special counsels team. I think everybody will acknowledge the special counsel has not leaked anything. So far we havent seen. That were running out of time. Well be back talking about this for many months to come i have a feeling. Jen, sabrina, thank you for sticking around as well. That will do it for me this week. Join me back here next sunday at 5 00 p. M. To break down the major stories of the week. Of course, you can reach out to me on social media and be sure to join my friend kasie hunt for kasie, d. C. Then at 9 00, headliners. But first up, its meet the press. Powerful potential. Signature toughness. And one more thing. The world comes with it. 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As long as evil villains reveal their plans, you can cot geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. Justice, can pardon who he wants and perhaps even himself and can end any federal investigation if he chooses to. Mr. Trump claims this investigation is illegitimate. Its a witch hunt. Thats all it is. There was no collusion with russia. And his biggest defender has been Rudy Giuliani. They had spies in the trump camp. This investigation never should have taken place in the first place. There was no collusion with the russians. In a moment, ill ask giuliani about that legal strategy, the circumstances surrounding the firing of fbi director james comey and whether the president ever