I look forward to going, but i thought that the Prime Minister said it was absurd that, it was an absurd idea, it was nasty. I thought that was an inappropriate statement. All she had to do was say, no, we wouldnt be interested. But we cant treat the United States of america the way they treated us under president obama. I was put here by people to do a great job, and thats what im doing. And nobodys done a job like ive done. Would china rather wait for a little more than a year and try and get Sleepy Joe Biden to negotiate with instead of President Trump . Maybe. But i dont think so. This isnt my trade war. This is a trade war that shouldve taken place a long time ago by a lot of other president s. I am the chosen one. Somebody had to do it. So im taking on china. Right now the president s in louisville, kentucky, speaking in front of 2500 military veterans at the American Veterans 75th national convention. Joining me now is nbc news chief White House Correspondent hallie jackson. I dont know what to make of this. This is a very, very wideranging conversation the president had taken in the context of a number of tweets over the last 24 hours, some of which are about policy matters about the federal reserve. Some of them on unusual things like greenland. What do you make of whats going on . Reporter i think there is, ali, a theme from the president. That is a theme of, as you said, pick your phrase west wind whiplash, mixed messages here from President Trump because we heard him backtrack on several things that hes been talking about over the last couple of days. You can pick the topics, all two, three of them. The president has gone back and forth ever since those shootings on el paso and ohio about the issue of strengthening background checks nishinitially saying that he wanted to see them stronger or he wanted to work on meaningful background checks to now saying that he believes the background checks in place are sufficient. But then again opening the door to the potential for something there, although putting the focus more on mental health. You have the issue too of the economy. The president after yesterday saying he was looking at the possibility of payroll tax cuts saying hes been thinking about it for a while, seeming to shift now saying that he is not putting those on the table. That is a direct contradiction to the president that we heard from just about 24 hours ago. And then the third piece of this is when he talked about this idea of buying greenland. The president initially saying he was going to go to denmark saying the purchase of it potentially was not on the front burner. Then cancelling his trip because of that. Really it seems hes peeved at the way the danish Prime Minister robusted his advances on greenland. He seems more upset about her tone than he does did anything else. It certainly angered danesh leaders around the country. Another headline that came out of that south lawn on the issue of jewish loyalty, the president has come under fire for of the comments he has made about the socalled rashida tlaib, ilhan omar, a visit that was obviously not happening to israel. The president said that jewish people who support democrats are disloyal. He doubled down on that again today saying that they are disloyal to israel who wonder here if the president s being malicious in this and discussing what is widely perceived as an antisemitic or if he is simply clueless in their words about what that actually means. It is kind of interesting that that whole comment didnt make it a bunch of questions to you because thats how unusual the last 24 hours has been. But this issue, these four women rashida tlaib, ilhan omar, and the two others who compromise what some people call the squad, this language is coming out of anybody from the white house. Whatever it is, they hate israel and theyre the face of the Democratic Party. This seems to be a catch phrase that is catching on or that they are trying out. I dont know who its meant to appeal to, but its the idea that these four women are outliers, but they are not really. They represent principles of the Democratic Party. Reporter it would seem that based on the president s comment that it is made to appeal to the Jewish Voters in america who the president wants to win. We know that most Jewish Americans in this country support democrats. The majority support democratic positions and candidates. President trump may be looking to try to increase the number of jewish people in this country who back him. Although based on the backlash that hes been getting from jewish people in this country, it would be surprising if that were to work at least. Our chief White House Correspondent at the white house. The Trump Administration is making a major policy change when it comes to immigration. This morning trumps acting Homeland Security secretary announced the administration would be changing guidelines under a decadesold federal court ruling known as the flores settlement agreement. That limited the amount of time the government could detain families to 20 days and impose conditions on how to care for detained children. But this new change means the administration can hold migrant families for the duration of their immigration proceedings, a process that currently averages many months. This single ruling has substantially can you seed and continues to fuel this Current Crisis in the unprecedented flow of Central American families and minors illegally crossing our border. The Trump Administration has established a new rule to respond to the realities of current immigration flows, a families should remain together during immigration proceedings. All right. With me now following this story, all of our immigration stories, nbc correspondent julia ainsley. Julia, just put this in context for me because kevin mcaleenan. Where hes getting that from is because they used the flores justification last summer when they started to separate families. They said if the courts wont let us hold children for longer than 20 days we will just separate them and hold the parents until their Court Process comes over. And they said, look, we are still hampered by flores. They said well keep them together but hold them indefinitely. And the thing thats really hard to figure out is how long indefinitely really means. Because right now if youre in detention, it averages about two to three months until youet get asylum or youre deported to your home country. But its not clear how long it could take. But bottom line is there is no timeline. Theres no day written in the calendar where it says youve been there long enough, but now youre out on parole or bond or whatever. You have to stay there. So it really is indefinite detention. That is why we expect it to come up in court to be challenged. Let me just ask you about the time it takes. Weve heard from you and your reporting about the backlog of cases that have to be heard for people, whether its deportation cases or immigration cases or adjudicated to be credible claims. Correct me if im wrong. There are over 900,000 cases and there are about 350 judges to handle these cases . Reporter youre right. Theres a huge backlog. When i started covering this under the Obama Administration, was growing. Thats when trump came into office. There was a backlog of over 500,000. And now we are looking at almost a million cases. Thats a huge backlog. I will say though the reason why we are only talking about two to three months is because people in detention, those cases move up the docket. Theyre higher priority. If you were someone in this country who was either not detained or youre someone who is just legally here trying to get to your next day in court, whether its trying to get asylum or to hear another step forward in your Legal Immigration process, you are far down in that line. So some people will complain that some people who come in undocumented actually do put the other people who wait in line further down the food chain because they have to wait so long. But bottom line there is a huge backlog. The other thing is space. They have no plans and the secretary pushed on this today, to expand i. C. E. Detention space. So when i asked, well, how many people will really be held to longer than 20 days, they said they expect this to affect about 5 to 10 of families and not everybody. But they think that thats enough to get the message across and to keep people from coming. Nbc correspondent julia ainsley. My next guest has been documenting the immigration policies, particularly its multiple attempts to violate the flores agreement. Medicine eric is better than this. Joining me now is democratic senator from oregon. Youve been tweeting about this in particular. I just want to show my viewers. They are doing it right now, changing the rules so they can lock up children and families indefinitely to deter people from coming to america, locking up innocent children. Are you okay with this . This is what theyve always wanted. Its been under works. Weve got to stop them. I will not let this be americas legacy hurting children to serve your political aims is monstrous. Why this, why now . Why is this happening . 14 months ago the president laid out an executive order that had three strategies to allow the indefinite detention of Migrant Children and migrant families. And his strategies will, one, get the could court to reverse himself. Strategy two was to go to congress. So you had 40 republican senators supporting internment camps in the United States of america. That failed. I went to the floor and laid out the history of internment camps that this will be the biggest battle youve ever seen. This is america, we are not going to allow this. So bring it to the floor, have the fight. Mitch mcconnell did not bring it to the floor. And so that strategy is gone. So now there is the regulation strategy. So flores says that if you implement flores decision by days. Tion, then flores goes but what the administration is doing is not implementing flores. Flores says you have to have state licensing. This rule says you dont. It says you have to have state oversight. This rule says you dont. It says cannot lock up children. This rule says you cant. So the courts are going to throw this out. But it does show the dark heart of this administration that they want to reestablish the indefinite detention of families. We are not going to have internment camps like this in the United States of america, and well do everything we can to fight it. So this is an interesting this administration argues that families use coming in with children as a way to get around. So did the Obama Administration. They didnt build these camps, but they argued in court that this is a way, people have figured out that if they come in with children, theres a way that they can get into the system. Whats the best argument for being humane but not having children be a loophole . The Obama Administration set up a program called a family Case Management program. Its gone through two inspector reports under the Trump Administration. They found that 99 of families, they show up to their court hearings. It worked very well. It treated families with dignity and respect. And they show up. So it takes the big lie to the administrations case that people are caught yeah. Most people show up. 99 plus percent according to the inspector general. So what did the Trump Administration do . They shut down this program at the same time, the same month that they were establishing the same plan to take down flores. As they took away the program that worked in order to accentuate their political argument. And it is true when people dont have a case manager, they dont even know when the hearing is. It is a human rights catastrophe to deliberately injure children in order to make a political message. Its not acceptable under any code of ethics, yet there are reasonable people who can believe that we have greater Border Security and that it cant be an open door policy for anyone who wants to get into the United States but not support this way of doing things. Absolutely. In 2013 democrats and republicans came together, super majority we passed a complete comprehensive immigration plan, security at the border, a much improved for visas. They come in off and on a plane, stay longer than their visa. Employment is the draw. The use of visas to be able to address responsibilities in the agricultural sector, a comprehensive reform with a path to citizenship for people who came before the bill. Supported by democrats, supplemented by republicans. John mccain played a key role. Lindsay graham played a keyhole. The Republican House torpedoed it, even though they had the votes to pass it. Its become clear republicans do not want to fix the broken immigration system. They want to use it as a Political Tool in elections. Thats whats going on here. We cannot allow the abuse of children to be part of that plan. I have to ask you youre a policywonky guy which we like. And i think our viewers proo appreciate that. This is the book you chose to write. Why is this topic there are so many. Whats the most important thing . 14 months ago when i read the zero tolerance speech by jeff sessions, i said im sure this is just a speech. There is no way any american administration, democrat or republican, trump, obama, anyone would ever do deliberately inflict harm on kids as a strategy. Someone on my team said theres only one way to find out. I flew down to the border and thats where i discovered kids being separated sorted into cages. I sat in front of a cage with a whole bunch of boys and said were these children separated from their parents . And they said not all of them. I said but many of them . They said yes. Well, this door over here, we pry them apart. And there was a little boy at the front of the line because the boys were lining up by height who was just knee high to a grasshopper, maybe 4 years old. I looked at those little kids and i thought this can not happen in the United States of america. The experts have weighed in on the deep trauma that is inflicted. I then went up the road to brownsville because i had heard that hundreds of boys were being stuffed into a former walmart without prior preparation. I had asked for permission to get in. I was turned away. They called the police on me. And it told america how much secrecy the administration wanted about what they were doing to children. So we have to shine a light on it. We have a moral responsibility. If any other country was doing this, wed be passing resolutions, condemning them. Wed be doing sanctions. Wed be saying what happened to them. But its happening here with our but its happening here with our money, our save 50 on the sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus free home delivery. Ends saturday. For a restless nights sleep. Pain settle theres a better choice. Aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12hour painrelieving strength of aleve that dares to last into the morning. So you feel refreshed. Aleve pm. Theres a better choice. How you watch it does too. Tv just keeps getting better. This is xfinity x1. Featuring the Emmy Awardwinning voice remote. Streaming Services Without changing passwords and input. Live sports with realtime stats and scores. Access to the most 4k content. And your movies and shows to go. The best tv experience is the best tv value. Xfinity x1. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity. The future of awesome. I had a few good tricks to help hide my bladder leak pad. Like the old tunic tug. But always discreet is less bulky. And it really protects. cause it turns liquid to gel. So i have nothing to hide. Always discreet. My car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. And this is me now any physical changes to this mans appearance are purely coincidental. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Lets get down to business. The business of atlanta on monday. Cincinnati on tuesday. Philly on wednesday. And thursday back to cincinnati. Modernized comfort inns and suites have been refreshed because when your business keeps going, our business is you. Get the lowest price guaranteed on all Choice Hotels when you book direct at choicehotels. Com. Im and im an emt. Erer when i get a migraine at work, its debilitating. If i call out with a migraine, thats one less ambulance to serve a community. I just dont want to let these people down. Excedrin migraine. Relief that works as hard as you do. States including collective bargaining, things like increasing the minimum wage have all been topics among all of the contenders here speaking but one of the things that jumped out to me and was a response from new jersey senator cory booker pushing back from joe bidens campaign, making his electability argument. Essentially biden saying you should vote with your head because the polls will show i will win, and now is the time to sort of stay safe and beat donald trump booker dismissed that argument and i followed up with him in the press afterwards listen to what he told me. We need a candidate not just for the head but for the heart and for the gut. Thats the candidate who i am. And ill be able in states like wisconsin where in milwaukee we saw a lower voter turnout than we saw in 2012 or detroit where we saw suppressed those two cities alone we could have won those states we need candidates that can energize and ignite the whole Democratic Party but even more than that because i think this is this is a moral mo we need ame leader that can spe to our common virtues and common ideals. Risk a fault line between some of thea candidates, ali. Because kbooker often talks about beating the floor, not the ceiling. And Pete Buttigieg talks a lot about defeating trump as a high, if a not the highest, who makes the same argument as booker thae by going safe in 2016 is how we got donald trump. Its justgo interesting to watc these vibes develop and how the candidates arede viewing this race. Thank you so much, Garrett Haake for us in al toona, iow. Union workers are a key part of the democratic coalition. D but donald trump did make in roads with them in 2016 and since. 538 crunched the numbers. Hillary clinton won union memberswo by nearly 17 points, t her margin of victory was less than Barack Obamas 34point win over mitt romney among union voters in 2012. Joining us to talk about this is the president of the employees union whichof represents about Million Health care workers, s, janitors, Security Officers and Public Service employees. Thank you for being with us. Thank you, ali. Is it fair to say that Union Workers are safely in the democratic column going into 2020 . We doin know with a number of t president s initiatives including some of his trade initiatives, it has brought Union Workers over to say President Donald Trump is worthp supporting. Where do you think Union Workers stand on this . I think Union Workers and all working people see the 2020 president ial election as a makeorbreak moment and that we need every president ial candidate to have specific plans and actions about what theyre going to do to make it easier for working people to join together in unions. And we have four concrete demands that we made today here in milwaukee. One we want every president ial candidate to set industrywide bargaining tables where companies, government, and workers get to sit down and bargain good jobs and a better life for our families and communities. Two, we want to make sure that every tax dollar is used to create good union jobs, subsidies,io grants, whatever w want good union jobs. And, three, we want states to be able to innovate and raise standards for working people. The federal rate should be the floor. States and cities should be able to innovate like the new york governor did in convening a wage board and raising wages of fast food workers from 7. 25 an hour to 15 an hour with one wage board and one decision for 200,000 workers being active. And then the fourth thing we want is for every president ial candidate to connect the demand for health care for all to every Health Care Worker being able to join togetherei in a union or Climate Change being realized, the Green New Deal making sure that every Clean Energy Job so we just heard, was it donald trump . Carrying on about howon Union Workers like their health care plan. They dont want medicare for all. I think its a false choice thats emerged. Every worker in this country wants to be able to go to the doctor and be able to afor road to pay the bill. And our union has fought for decades on making health care more affordable and more accessible. So i think its a good debate in this country d about how are we going to bring down costs, make it easier for everybody to afford health care in this country. Youh mentioned wage rates. I think we put a map up about that. You go not too far north in milwaukee. Youll get to canada where you see much higher minimum wage rates. We are still talking about a current federal minimum wage of 7. 25 an hour. A lot of states have lower or higher minimum wages than that. That isgh not a living wage. Thats correct. And 7. 25, we should be ashamed of ourself as a nation. Thats why we are so proud when the house of representatives just passed a 15 National Minimum wage bill and were pushing Mitch Mcconnell to put it onpu the floor of the senate and ask the senators to pick aside withse working people. 22 Million People have gotten raises as a result of the fight for 15. 70 billion has gotten into the pockets of workers. Thats why im so proud to be making the demand for unions for all because nobody thought 15 was e possible. I believe that unions can be possible for all workers in this country, gig workers, service workers, franchise workers. People have been excluded from the federal law was written 80 years ago. Itsn outdated. Its broken. Itte needs to be updated in the four ways that were talking about so that all working people can exercise their constitutional right to assemble toig join together and bargain better life. Id like to remind people that if you earn 15 an hour and you take no vacation and you earn. Mary kay henry, good to see you as always. She is the president of seiu. Coming up, facebook unveils the Clear History tool that Mark Zuckerberg first promised last year. But itir isnt available in the u. S. Yet. Critics stay falls way short of expectations. You are watching msnbc. Msnbce that dares to last into the morning. So you feel refreshed. Aleve pm. Theres a better choice. Corey is living with metastatic Breast Cancer, which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. Shes also taking ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 metastatic Breast Cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. Ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus letrozole. Patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. Before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. Common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. Corey calls it her new normal because a lot has changed, but a lot hasnt. Ask your doctor about ibrance. The 1 prescribed fdaapproved oral Combination Treatment for hr her2 mbc. Facebooks been promising its users that theyre going to get more control over their personal data. Now the social network is finally unveiling its longawaited plan. The new feature is called off facebook activity. Its going to give you a closer idea of how facebook can track you as you browse the rest of the internet and give you an opportunity to disconnect that information from your profile. But you cant delete your data entirely. For now only users in spain, ireland, and south korea will be able to use this feature. As the Washington Post reports, it comes a year after mark zuckerg first planned to build a function called Clear History which he said will work much the same way as a browser which will allow people to delete information about the sites they have visited. But that doesnt exactly flush data. Instead it disconnects information from the identify to a specific user and it isnt deleted outright. Joining me right now is tony romm, the senior tech policy reporter for the Washington Post. What are you guys supposed to think that this new feature is supposed to do for us . Reporter this is supposed to give you more control and the kind of activity you are talking about is the stuff that youre doing off of facebook. So, for example, if youre shopping for shoes or something and you add that pair of shoes to your cart, there are invisible trackers on that web page that can tell facebook that you looked at it that youll see ads for shoes later. Thats the kind of thing facebook wants you to be able to understand more clearly and turn off if you dont like that kind of tracking. But as you pointed out, there are a lot of privacy advocates who feel this is far short of what facebook promised and doesnt actually give users the kind of control perhaps they were expecting. Whats the Gold Standard in being able to control ones data . What would success look like for privacy advocates . Well, i think success for them would look like not having that Data Collected in the first place. It goes to that distinction that you raised between disconnecting the data and deleting the data. I think there are a lot of privacy advocates who have said over the past week that they just dont think that advertisers should be passing this information back to facebook in the first place and maybe it shouldnt be showing you these kinds of ads. So it really gets to the core of what makes facebook such a lucrative business. One of the things that facebooks help center writes, it says your future off facebook activity will be disconnected within 48 hours from when its received. During this time it may be used for measurement purposes and to make improvements to ad systems. What does that mean . Yeah. Remember, facebook is a multibillion dollar business, and that money comes from the fact that they show ads in such a lucrative platform for advertisers to use you targeted based on your interests. They are saying that it wants to be able to tell advertisers that their ads are effective that people they wanted to reach that shoe example, for instance, are able to see that ad for shoes. Facebook said that this kind of thing could affect its revenues in the upcoming quarter, but there are a lot of people who said, you know what, facebook is actually protecting its bottom line here. Tony, good to talk to you as always. Senior tech policy reporter at the Washington Post. Coming up next, brazils amazon rainforest is on fire. A potentially devastating blow to combat Climate Change. Some are blaming the destruction on brazils president and encouraging deforestation. Well have a report on the other side. You are watching msnbc. Other side you are watching msnbc ancestrydna has new features and richer stories. And its now on sale for just 59. It can lead you on an unexpected journey. To discover your heritage. Get your dna kit now for just 59 at ancestry. Com. Announcer fidelity is redefining value with zero account fees for brokerage accounts. And zero minimums to open an account. At fidelity those zeros really add up. Maybe ill win saved by zero fip. The area of the world known as the earths lungs may be in huge trouble. A Brazilian Government Agency said brazil has seen a Record Number of wildfires in the amazon rain forest this year. The agency said as of tuesday, it had counted more than 74,000 fires. Thats an 84 increase over the same period last year. The fires are so big, you can see them from space. Heres a picture from nasa taken last week. And spoke from those fires may have helped plunge sao paulo, brazils largest city, into darkness. Take a look at this. Brazils president , a skeptic of Climate Change, appeared to blame nongovernmental organizations for the unusually high number of wildfires but didnt produce evidence to back that up. Some of those organizations have blamed the prodevelopment policies for a sharp increase of deforestation of the amazon, which may have played a role in the fires. The amazon rain forest is an area as big as the continental United States. Its home to more saoirses than anywhere else on earth. Joining me to take a closer look at michael mann, distinguished professor of Atmospheric Science at penn state universe and author of the madhouse effect how Climate Change denial is affecting her planet. This is tragedy and politics at the same time. Lets talk about the tragedy. Lets talk about the fact fires of this magnitude would be dangerous anywhere for the carbon they put into the area but in this particular instance, the amazon acts as a carbon sink. It takes in carbon and processes it so it is sort of doubly as bad as this would be somewhere else . Thanks, ali, its good to be back with you. This is a triple whammy, if you will, of human influence, the drying change and dry, drying and warming of Climate Change is creating the frequency for wildfires in places like the amazon. Combined with that you have policies right now that encourage deforestation for development, for agriculture livestock. So at the same time this deforestation and these wildfires are putting carbon, as you say, back into the atmosphere. The amazon is supposed to be a carbon sink, its supposed to be helping us with Climate Change by taking carbon out of the atmosphere. Instead were turning it into a source, which means were accelerating the buildup of these Greenhouse Gases in the atmosphere, worsening Climate Change as a result of that. And this is to some degree, look, some of it is dry area. Some of it theyre saying people are taking some of the land being illegally logged and theyre clearing it with these fires, but the bottom line is theres an administration in brazil, not dissimilar to an administration here in america, who does not take Climate Change seriously. Thats right. We see the same sort of fingerpointing, same sort of projection, if you will, rather than accepting blame for policies encouraging this deforestation. Hes pointing the fingers at groups who are trying to help stop the deforestation and oppose his policies. Its the same sort of projection, if you will, that we see here. What do we do about this . I ask you in the context of america and the paris accord. We stepped back from having major influence. Germany and norway both have some inflounce in brazil and theyre threatening to withhold 60 million in funds for brazils forest, for sustainability, and bowl scenario has fought back at those two places and told them to reforest their own countries and germany said we do. Were actually pretty good at this. But what role does the rest of the world have in. We have to use all of the influence we have to take bad actors to task, whether its the Trump Administration trying to go back on our collective commitments to the paris accord here in the United States or people like bose narrow, going back on their word, going back on the commitment bazerazil mado do everything it can to lower our carbon emissions. If every country keeps their commitment to the paris accord, it doesnt solve the problem. It cuts the warning roughly in half and half of where we need to be. But we have to go beyond and ratchet up our effort to prevent catastrophic warming of 2 degrees celsius, 4 degrees fahrenheit. The fact is the u. S. And brazil are actually going in the wrong direction right now. That means we have to take them to task and other countries have to take them to task. And even if everybody did the right things as you and i discussed the other day, we probably wouldnt make that 2 , 3 threshold. Michael mann, distinguished professor at penn state university. Msnbc is teaming up institute of politics of environmental information to talk september 19 and 20th in washington. The ongoing trade war is expected to reduce the u. S. gross domestic product. The total provides by. 3 . And that could reduce the income by the average household expects year. Remember, if thats true, that offsets the projections of a recession some have been making because a recession would be no growth or negative growth. The other big headline from todays report, federal budget deficits, ceo said this years deficit will reach 960 billion, 63 billion higher than the previous estimate, which was made a few months ago. And starting next year the deficit will likely exceed 1 trillion a year. Thats not the debt. Thats just one years budget shortfall. Joining us to take a look at this is maya mcginnis, president for a responsible budget. What happened . Tax cuts were supposed to be fantastic and promote growth to reduce the deficit. Isnt that what got the republicans elected . That was the start of the story line here and its just been a continued deterioration ever since. The terrible numbers that came out of the Congressional Budget Office are no surprise because theyre basically all selfimposed of a number of tax and spending policies that have come out since President Trump has been in office. The past two congresses have really done a ton of damage. But the fact its no surprise is no less troubling. Were at a time of economic strength, regardless of whether the economy is weakening or not. Were coming off a very long expansion, and thats when your deficit is supposed to be improving, and yet its gotten worse and worse. We have cut taxes in an incredibly irresponsible way and we follow that with two rounds of spending cuts we didnt pay for either, all piling on the national debt. When you go into a recession, which inevitably happens, you tend to spend more. We can agree or disagree, some people disagree on the last round of stimulus in 2008 but the fact is most people think you spend then and you reduce your deficit in good times. We didnt. Well, yes. Let me say i certainly agree when the economy turns down, you want to be able to use fiscal stimulus to help juice the economy. Particularly important this round because the fed will be so overextended with rates already quite low. Yet were going to hit the next recession with our debt relative to the economy probably twice as high as it was when we went in to the recession of 2008. That really leaves us with fewer tools in the toolbox. Its very damaging. It could play out in two ways. One, there could be arguments we shouldnt do physical stimulus at the time we should and secondly there may be less effective stimulus and the result would be even higher debt level. I would say on this front, we know beer going have another recession. The Business Cycle still exists. We should put in place a plan that you have a fiscal package in the short run that reduces the economy and tie its to longerterm savings that kick in when the economy is strong again. If we had done that last time, we would be in better shape this time. We know politicians are unwilling to make the hard choices on the debt front the so putting them in place ahead of time might be the best hope we have. I have known you a long time, maya. I am smiling because youve said this for a long time. One day maybe somebody would actually listen to you. Maya is the president for the committee for a responsible federal budget. Thank you for joining me, maya. That wraps up the hour for me. I will see you back here tomorrow at 1 00 p. M. Eastern and 3 00 p. M. Eastern. You can watch or listen to the show, by the way, on the road on sirius xm radio, tunein, msnbc. Com now and apple tv. Can you find me all over social media, twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat and linkedin. Thank you for watching. Deadline white house begins right now. Hello, and namaste, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york city. Im John Heilemann from for nicolle wallace. Just two weeks from mass shooting thats left dozens dead, one specifically targeting hispanics. Its appallingly parent how little impact these slaughters have had on President Donald Trump. Today the president is giving every indication hes retreating on the promise of gun reform by at the same time returning to his focus on policies that target latinos. We will get to guns in a moment. But first this morning his administration announcing a new rule that will allow u. S. To hold migrant families in detention indefinitely if they cross the border illegally. That would be the latest turn of the screw at the u. S. Mexican Border where trumps policies separates families, put