Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi 20190726

7,000 phony accounts from iran. Some of those accounts impersonated u. S. Political candidates. While as of now iranian operations seem to lack the complexity of russias interference, researchers are saying there are clear signs of shifting tactics. Heres the kicker. Whats known may be only small parts of much larger operations that remain currently undetected. Joining me now on this is one of the coauthors of that report, tony romm, senior tech policy reporter. Hes also an msnbc technology contributor. Tony, thanks so much for joining us on this. Very much appreciate it. Drilling this down to specifics here. You report that Cybersecurity Company fire eye alleged that u. S. News sites may have been tricked into publishing letters to the editor penned by iranian operatives. It also, quote, catalogs fictitious twitter personas used by iranians that included a Harvard University student, a michigan bodybuilder, and an iranian American Woman from seattle. What were they trying to accomplish here with these personnas . This is all about changing the conversation. And it varies by country with iran what weve seen time and again is that some of the individuals who are creating these fake accounts are trying to push messages that are sympathetic to the iranian government. In many cases we havent been told from facebook or from some of the researchers that theyre part of the iranian government that theyre sponsored by the state. But theyre certainly pushing messages that are sympathetic to the state or attacking President Trump, for example, on issues such as the Nuclear Standoff between the two countries. But its important tomorrow that this is the tip of the iceberg. We are now beginning to see other countries adopt the same play book that russian trolls had used during the 2016 election. So let me ask you this. If we dont necessarily know that theyre a part of iran, how do we know if they were sanctioned by iran . Well, we know that theyre located within iran. We know this because of the work that researchers and some of the Tech Companies have done to pinpoint their exact locations. Now there are links sometimes between accounts and folk whos work in the government. Some of the takedowns that happened in facebook last year had to do with organizations and individuals that were amplifying staterun media. So there was a tie between those fake accounts and these media sites that had been sanctioned by the government. In other cases though its much harder to figure out attribution, which just sort of speaks to this other issue which is that its so difficult sometimes even for the researchers to figure out whats going on, on these social media sites. We heard bob mueller saying theyre going to continue to do it in 2020 as well. We know theres obviously a trade war going on with china. Could china be doing this. We know saudi arabia could be doing this as well. There was evidence of that in 2016. That you can to us about other countries that could be a threat in this way. Right. We havent seen this from china targeting the u. S. You know, you talk to some of these social Networking Companies and they have not pointed to china as an example of that. But they have pointed to other instances whether its saudi arabia or its individual countries in latin america where were seeing disinformation operations. And in many cases they arent targeting the u. S. Theyre targeting other countries where they have geopolitical influence. So in the u. S. We still have to deal with ivan and there is russia. Russian agents have not stopped trying to influence the u. S. Political conversation. And the threats still persist entering 2020. So heres what twitter is saying. As part of our public archive information operations, we have disclosed thousands of accounts and millions of twaets originating in iran. Every year is an Election Year on twitter and we will be applying all of our global learnings to protect and enhance conversations around the 2020 election. Do you buy that they are prepared locked and loaded ready to deal with this threat come 2020 . Well, certainly these companies are doing much more than they have in the past. Facebook, google, and twitter, they werent really talking about this issue before the 2016 education. You might remember Facebook Ceo Mark Zuckerberg was a little bit negative about the prospect of russian interference two years ago. So these companies are doing more with the policies that they have in place. Theyre hiring thousands of people to review content on their sites. And theyre even deploying Artificial Intelligence tools to try to check accounts as theyre being created to ensure that were not seeing all of these falsehoods dominating the conversation online. But if you talk to lawmakers, its still not enough. They just think the investments havent been sufficient. And that the gaping security vulnerabilities are still there. Yeah, gaping security vulnerabilities, very much still there. Tony romm, thanks so much, appreciate it. So the threat remains imperfectly understood. That is what a brandnew Senate Intelligence Committee Report has concluded about the security of our election infrastructure a day after special Counsel Robert Mueller warned that many other countries were replicating russias tactics to interfere in u. S. Elections. The committee released volume one of the heavily redacted report that found this. Quote in, 2016, cybersecurity for electoral infrastructure at the state and local level was sorely lacking. Joining me now is david salvo, serving as the deputy secretary of states policy adviser for europe, eurasia and International Security issues. He is now Deputy Director at the National Security advocacy group, alliance for securing democracy. David, the report found that russia was exploiting these gaps between federal capabilities and protection for the states that youve coauthored a report looking into federal funding for state election security. What are these gaps that were exploited by the russians . So, there are a lot of outdated systems in our electoral infrastructure from Voter Registration databases to the voting systems themselves to the fact that several states are still using paperless ballots so that you cant verify paper ballot results with electronic results. These are vulnerabilities that the russians were at least probing in all 50 states in the runup to the 2016 election. Whats important about the Senate Intelligence Committee Report is that it shows that the russians were continuing this activity after november 2016. This is an ongoing challenge. I think thats one of the key points that this report is making. This operation didnt end with the trump election in 2016. This is an ongoing challenge that needs to be met. So you have the committee having a few recommendations and one of those recommendations was basically paper backups for these registration systems to a doctrine of how to deter cyber attacks. But the New York Times is saying basically thats not feasible. There are some holes saying that some states like new jersey appear not to have the money to fix a voting machine infrastructure that has no paper backup to its balloting process. So what do you think are the Viable Solutions here . Well, more federal resources will help. And this is whats, again, important about this report is that you have democrats and republicans agreeing on a common sense list of recommendations because the states dont have the resources themselves. So last Year Congress allocated 380 million to the states for election security. 85 of those funds will be spent by the 2020 election. Thats a good start. The problem is as you pointed out some of these vulnerabilities are going to persist beyond the 2020 election. So this isnt a onetime fix. There needs to be more federal funding available to the states. This isnt a takeover of state jurisdiction. Its just providing the states with more money to be able to shore up these vulnerabilities themselves. You mentioned russians targeted all 50 states in illinois as of 2018, quote, russian cyber actors were in a position to delete or change voter data, but the committee is unaware of any evidence that they did so. Russia has targeted all 50 states. We know that to be sure. Why wouldnt russians seize the opportunity to change voter data here . Were they not able to infiltrate . Well, they may have about, but honestly i think the overarching russian objective is to undermine americans confidence in the integrity of the vote. To do that they dont need necessarily to change the tally. They just need to be able to demonstrate to us that they have the capabilities to do so that they did go so theyve done, theyve won. So now what . So now we need democrats and republicans to actually get together and pass common sense legislation that would fix some of these electoral vulnerabilities and we need some better messaging from the president himself to come out and really unify the country on an issue thats so far been polarizing. This is a longterm challenge and the president could really play a crucial role if he acknowledged that his administration is taking his threat seriously. This is an issue thats going to outlast his presidency and that democrats and republicans need to come together. And it has not happened. And were going to be talking about that legislation. So thank you for helping me make that transition. David salvo, thank you so much. I appreciate it. So with all of this concern as david was just talking about, what is Congress Actually doing about it . Right . Thats the big question. Joining me now from capitol hill, nbc news correspondent leigh ann caldwell. Really blocking legislation that democrats said would provide more funding for election security. Something that we need come 2020. And really right now as bob mueller said because its happening as we speak. What exactly was this legislation supposed to do . Reporter so, yasmin, the house of representatives already passed this legislation. They passed it just about a month ago. It was bipartisan. But only one republican voted for it. No democrat voted against it. Democrats like to say that that means that it was bipartisan. But this is still a very partisan issue. Now its come over to the senate, and republicans keep blocking efforts by democrats to bring this legislation up. Here are a few things that it does. It provides 600 million worth of money for states to shore up their election system and also gives another nearly 200 million for every other year after that. It also ensures that theres going to be a traceable paper ballot that voters can verify. It ensures that Voting Machines arent connected to the internet to ensure that theyre secure. It requires some federal standards to prevent against cybersecurity problems. And so there is a whole list of things that this legislation would do to try to shore up the election system. But republicans dont like them. They say that it is a federal overreach into the election system. Right now the system that we have is decentralized. Elections are run by the states, and they think that this would move this more in the direction of the federal government, and that is their main reason for not supporting this legislation is what theyre saying, anyway. And so securing the election based on what bob mueller said a couple days ago and also based on what the Senate Intelligence committee in a bipartisan manner just came out with the report yesterday saying that problems exist in our election system that russians interfered in 2016 and they are very capable and working on doing that again in 2020. But still there is no bipartisanship coming together between republicans and democrats on how to solve this problem, yasmin. All right, leigh ann caldwell, thank you for clearing that up. Coming up, everybody, scientists have released some startling new data on Climate Change, and how fast glaciers are actually melting. Some starting images coming from this story. We are getting a rare, upclose and personal image of what is happening. Youre watching msnbc. Well be right back. Ht back. Until i almost lost my life. My doctors again ordered me to take aspirin, and i do. Be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. 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Just say brett young into your x1 voice remote. Welcome back. So, july is coming to a close. But Scientists Say this month is on track to become the hottest in recorded history. We saw evidence of that this week. Paris, london, amsterdam, brussels, they baked under record temperatures. I think paris got up to 108 degrees yesterday. This followed our own heat wave here roasting much of north america and the arctic, the rising temperatures coming with a very scary warning though in. A Study Released this week, Scientists Say some glaciers are melting up to 100 times faster than scientists thought they were. Nbc news got a view. Reporter alaskas blue white giants are dying falling to rising temperatures in the 49th state. 34 degree water recently melted ice and snow. Reporter matt sundi guides tours on the massive spencer glacier. In 2009 we used to be able to step onto the ice from the end of the trail. Reporter we have to kayak to the glaciers face a mile away. Anymo nimbly making our way past icebergs that are break off. Recently as 35 years ago where we were kayaking right now wouldve been under hundreds of feet of ice. Reporter this climatologist has come to see the damage first hand to an ice mass. This is the warmest. Reporter on july 4th anchorage set a new record at 90 degrees. Forest fires leave a haze that hangs in the air. Fisheries, a 6 billion industry, are jeopardized. And the ice keeps melting. A helicopter is now the only way to reach the top. They say the spencer recedes 100 feet a year. This is a phenomenal place of natural beauty. But tragedy is its disappearing before our very eyes. Reporter matts tour business is also receding. I love the aesthetic of what meltwater creates, but the cause of it is heartbreaking. Reporter with more carbon in the atmosphere, its getting hotter and melting glaciers causing water levels worldwide to rise. In many other places, you cant see those changes, but theyre occurring. Climate change is affecting everybody. The glaciers a bit like a canary in a coal mine. Reporter glaciers now in retreat. Alaska. That is some unreal footage ive got to say. Joining us now to take a closer look at this is monica medina, founder and ceo our daily planet. Month thank you so much for joining on this incredibly important topic. Thank you. As we just saw, glaciers they are melting faster than ever. What does this tell us about Climate Change and the amount of time we have to reverse any of these effects, if we even can at this point . Well, im going to try and put it into terms that i think a lot of your audience will really appreciate and understand. This is not like mother earth has a sun burn or even is having a hot flash. This is a highgrade fever and its going up. Its systemic. Its not localized. Its not temporary. This pattern that were seeing is just part of an overall pattern of increasing warming and it happened in australia in the Southern Hemisphere during their summer, and now its happening during ours. So its time for us to treat it. We cant just pretend that the symptoms are going to go away or we can just sort of shake it off. Itll take care of itself. The World Meteorological organization is saying that the heat that baked europe these past few days is actually going to move towards green last. Lets take a listen to this. There has been quite rapid melting of the Greenland Ice sheet in recent weeks. In july alone, it lost 160 billion tons of ice through surface melting. Thats roughly the equivalent of 64 million olympicsized swimming pools just in july. Thats really unbelievable. I want to bring up this chart here because the orange on this chart as you see right here on the sides there it shows the surface ice that melted on june 12th alone. And here you can see how early the melting season began. What does this all mean, monica . It means that were, you know, in a system where we cant necessarily stop whats happening, but we could slow it. What it means is that this is going to have impacts for people all over the planet, not just those people in the arctic region who are feeling it. Were all feeling it. Thats why europe was baking this week. Thats why australia baked last january during their summer. What we need to do is start preparing for it. We need to do what we can to cut back to try to cut our fever. But we also need to treat it. And we need to be ready for these extreme heat waves. I think your reporting may not have pointed out, but a lot of europe doesnt have airconditioning. When you get these high temperatures, it has incredible impacts on peoples health, young people, older people are both impacted tremendously. You all did a report this week about how soldiers are impacted because of heat stress, training in hot weather. Its something that we all need to be mindful of. And we need to tart being prepared for. So part of this is about educating and informing in order to stop the progression. In september our daily planet and the georgetown is going to hold a twoday forum on Climate Change in washington d. C. Actually msnbc were super excited to be the media partner for this event. What are you hoping is actually going to come out of this . What real change . Im hoping that we will have a chance to hear all the Democratic Candidates talk about their ideas because they all have interesting and good ones. Some have put out very extensive plans. But all of them have been leaning forward on this issue and its in stark contrast to the republican party. So its an important moment for democrats to really take up this issue and start to make it part of our national conversation. Because it is that we are all seeing and feeling. And i think the country kind of is waking up to that. And so now is the appointment, its a really good time we have about 12 years according to the scientists, 11 years to really take some important actions. And we can. And if we do, we can break this fever. We can slow the warming. We can make our future brighter than it would be. Otherwise were going to be suffering from a fever for the infinite future. I mean, its something we can control if we work on it, and these candidates can talk about what they would do if they were president. It takes leadership in order to make some of these changes. Well. And so there are a lot of plans, but then ultimately these plans have to be instituted and that has been the overwhelming problem for some time now. By the way as i misrepresentationed that twoday Climate Forum in september, its going to be on the 19th and the 20th. And its going to be mosted rated by ali velshi who im filling in for right now and chris hayes. Coming up the booker biden feud heats up. And addresses former Vice President s joe bidens latest attacks against him. I will always speak truth to power. And watching the crime bills of the 80s and the 90s and all the things that he put into place, this is something that should be talked about. And the response to having a substantive conversation about peoples records shouldnt be to go on the attack. I found his attacks on me ridiculous. Great riches will find you when Liberty Mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Wow. Thanks, zoltar. How can i ever repay you . Maybe you could free zoltar . Thanks, lady. Taxi only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Key. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. 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In big ways and in small, bank of america is here to help you get things done. What would you like the power to do . ® done welcome back. Lets hit the 2020 campaign trail. Got to get my hair out of my face as we do it. New jersey senator cory booker hasnt backed down from former Vice President joe biden. He first called out biden on his criminal justice plan and then again earlier today when booker said while biden has more name recognition, hes the candidate with the real connection to the africanamerican community. Any minute now, were actually going to hear from senator cory booker himself at the new leaders counsel convention in des moines. But first i want to go to garrett haake. Thanks so much for joining us. What is bookers message here to voters today as he works to really distinguish himself from joe biden . Reporter yasmin, its interesting. Booker and biden have been circling each other like boxers for the last few weeks or so on the issues of race and criminal justice reform. Yesterday booker made the argument in front of a National Urban league audience that the democratic nominee has to be someone with big connects who can drive big turnout with africanAmerican Voters. Today i asked him how can he claim that mantle given how poorly he has performed with that group so far. He said hes got room to grow, and then he told me this. Take a listen. [ crowd cheering] the trade union. Well, not sure what that was, yasmin, but this is Live Television on a friday afternoon, so ill just tell you booker made the argument that whoever the nominee is going to be. [ laughter ] no. I was just saying that was a little bernie sanders. Go ahead, garrett. Reporter bernie, booker, thats a lot of bname candidates. Senator booker argued that whoever the nominee is has to have what he called an authentic connection with africanAmerican Voters. He pointed out that despite Hillary Clinton being a great candidate in 2016, she was not able to drive the kind of turnout in places like detroit where next weeks debate will be held. I think its an interesting question and one that the candidates will have to answer one in which he means authentic connection. On the idea that biden would be architect of mass incarceration in reference to the 1994 crime bill. I asked senator booker if thats an argument hes comfortable making on the debate stage. He said that hes willing to speak truth to power and essentially yes. Now that is a much more difficult attack to deliver when your opponent is standing right next to you on the debate stage as were going to see next week. But again you see booker essentially telegrafg that he does want to engage with the Vice President on these issues. There is some risk in showing your hand a bit too much. But i think for Vice President joe biden essentially now at the center of that debate stage next week, with cory booker and Kamala Harris saying they want to engage on this issue, we can see some major fire. Was there any mention that the fact that booker is drilling down on this was because of the success of Kamala Harris . And by the way, we have that slot you wanted to toss to. [ laughter ] confident, especially as weve seen this the last few election cycles as we saw unfortunately even with a great champion of africanamerican communities like Hillary Clinton who did not see a big enough turnout in places like michigan or detroit or wayne county in michigan. So this is an election we need to have somebody who can have an add entic connection with all of america, and especially a lot of those core elements of our demographic. Well, there you go. I think i described that sound byte accurately earlier. As to your question about whether any of this is driven by Kamala Harriss debate, i dont think it would surprise anyone to know that the Booker Campaign i think wants to engage with joe biden. They wanted to engage with him before the first debate and they want to engage with him still. So whether or not its Kamala Harris related directly or rather just a desire to elevate oneself by engaging with the person whos really the frontrunner leading the field, i think thats one of those things that all the candidates that arent joe bidens would like to do at this point. Garrett, i can tell youre on the campaign trail because you can really deal with ng in, my friend. So i appreciate that. Garrett haake for us. Joining me now anna palmer, senior washington correspondent for politico. Thanks for joining us on this. What is this exchange between biden and booker and sort of the momentum building towards the debate how it seems as if biden is going to be enemy number one with regards to all of the candidates. What does that tell you. I think what you really see here is cory bookers strategy. He has had a hard time breaking through in this obviously very large field. And the fact that were talking about him means that his strategy is somewhat working because this is an issue i think that both cory booker and probably others try to attack the Vice President on i think joe biden, junyou know, struggl in that first debate. But its kind of constant issue with the Biden Campaign of having to answer for this very long historical record that a lot of the issues have changed and where the democrats are often times at odds with the position that biden took historically. I think the question is do we have this inside do the democrats have this infighting amongst themselves or do they go after President Trump now or do they wait till the general election in order to do that . This is a deeply unpopular president as we well know. So whats the calculus here . Yeah. I think what we saw in the beginning was none of these candidates were going after each other. There was kind of this kumbaya moment where these democrats have decided to raise their hand. Now when push comes to shove, these candidates need to break out for a lot of reasons but most of all fundraising. They need to be able to get big donors to cut them checks because if they dont have that money coming in, they are not going to be able to stay in the race. So thats one of the big key questions here. I think the other thing is what you had joe biden really trying to do was trying to assert himself as the frontrunner and run this kind of general Election Campaign strategy, and hes had to step back from that. He understands now i think after the first debate that he is going to have to, you know, get some punches in himself to maintain that frontrunner status. But theres also this postmueller momentum, postmueller testimony, momentum, obviously this afternoon we had house judiciary chair jerry nadler announcing he was going after the grand jury material underlying the report. Lets take a listen to him, and then i want your comments on it. Finally today we are filing an application for the grand jury material underlying the mueller report. That information is critically important for our ability to examine witnesses including former White House Counsel Don Mcgahn and to investigate the president s misconduct. So, obviously, the candidates can sort of catch hold of this and ride this momentum, right . They can sort of be unified with washington right now and not only campaign on the issues but campaign with an antitrump message postmueller report. That talk to me about those ten instances of obstruction of justice. Tell me about how the democrats in washington are possibly walking towards impeachment, to believe impeachment inquiry, that is. Prolonging this impeachment investigation, shall we say. But, you know, are they doing that, would that be smart, whats the political calculus for them here . I think the issue or the real problem is that the mueller hearing didnt land with a dramatic, you know, kind of smoking gun that came out of it. What youre going to see is what you just heard from jerry nadler, kind of the plotting investigations are going to continue. That is what Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants. You arent hearing a lot of these Democratic Candidates take up mueller as their kind of defining issue. I think that partly has to do with if you look at any of the polling, most American Voters arent focused on the mueller report, arent focused on that as a reason to vote for democrats versus the president. So do you think theres a point where the democrats investigations are going to begin to hurt the candidates or do you think the voters can separate the two . I think thats going to be a key question. The question is going to be, and i think youre going to see the president really hit on this and how he did on twitter is hes trying to run as a vindicated man and say there was no collusion, this is over, and so the questions going to be how do democrats kind of counterpunch on those issues and do voters think the democrats are just going after this president , you know, either theyd go after him no matter what or do they have a Serious Investigation with things that they are looking into. I think that is what you see democratic leadership trying to do to say, hey, we need to keep this as serious as possible so that the American Voters know that we are doing this with respect, we are serious, we are not just kind of overzealous in our investigations. All right, anna palmer, thank you, and have a good weekend. 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We look now to the developing story surrounding fans year Jeffrey Epstein jailed as he awaits trial on sex trafficking charges alleging a years long pattern of soliciting and sexually abusing dozens of underage girls. Epstein has pleaded not guilty to these charges. And we are now learning more about the circle surrounding the embattled businessman, particularly his perform ties to l. Brand ceo les wexner. Under wexners leadership, l. Brands controlled chains like amber crom bee and fitch, express and victorias secret. Involvement in not just wexners personal finances but also those of his businesses reading in part former executives said he also inserted himself into the business buying a plane from the company for 10 million and trying to offer input on which woman should be Victoria Secret models. L. Brands has hired a law firm to review his role. A spokesperson saying we do not believe he was ever employed by nor served as an authorized representative of the company. And further evidence of the tightknit twodecadelong relationship between the two is epsteins role as wexners, get this, power of attorney for 15 years enabling epstein to sign wexners checks and his tax returns. This is a guy who has a lot of money. And buy and Sell Properties on his behalf. Gregory zuckerman whos done extensive reporting on this. This is perplexing to me on so many levels, this sort of diehard commitment it seems that existed between epstein and wexner. A relationship in which wexner passed aside or put aside friends from his past, people he had long relationships with since childhood in favor of epstein. Talk first about epsteins possible business involvement in l. Brands. Sure. And its a confounding relationship that people as you suggest around mr. Wexner couldnt quite figure out and those of us trying to investigate also are having a difficult time understanding. So it started off as a business relationship. He was managing his personal financing. This is Jeffrey Epstein managing wexners personal finances and it morphed into things like getting involved in real estate and even his companies weighing in on the models at times. All kinds of personal relationships. He crafted mr. Wexners prenuptial agreements. It got really complicated, extensive, and a little bit as you suggested sort of confinding. Why it is that this 7 billion retail mogul has such an affinity for a guy named Jeffrey Epstein. And lets talk about this power of attorney, which is startling. The only time someone passes over their power of attorney is likely to a spouse, to a child, to a parent, someone who they trust. And even that at times is sensitive to pass over that power of attorney. New york times saying this, mr. Wexner signed a threepage document known as a power of attorney, that enabled mr. Epstein to hire people, sign checks. This is an incredibly smart guy to have built what he built, basically getting the limited brand and then going over to victorias secret. And yet turning over the power of attorney to Jeffrey Epstein, a guy who was a math teacher at dalton and then went on to be bear sterns and nobody know whats happened to him and why he left and also was a dropout. So why this commitment to epstein . And as you suggest, he got fired from bear stearns. He was a math teacher, and les wexner gives him all this kind of power. So im not going to say this is the whole story, but les wexner is very skilled at certain things in life. He is a retail expert. He built these retrail brands into giants from a loan from his aunt for a few hundred dollars. But he has a weakness when it comes to personal finance. Its over his head. He didnt really have anybody guiding him. His personal finances were in a mess. He was told that this guy, Jeffrey Epstein. By who. Was this sort of financial genius. By greenberg. The guy who eventually fired Jeffrey Epstein . He was one of those who did fire him. So recommended epstein to wex dismaer then subsequently fired him. And yet wexner stayed on with epstein. But Jeffrey Epstein is a very charismatic guy. Hes a smart guy. For whatever reason, les wexner decided to go all in on him and confide in him and depend on him. And if you think about it les wexner is a rather shy individual, he built his brands, but hes from columbus, ohio, didnt really come to new york city too much. I know people spent time on his 300foot yacht and theres hardly anywhere there. Hes like a family guy. Here he had a symbiotic relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. So l brand, what are they looking for, what could come of it . Itd be interesting to see how involved he really was. And involvement goes into other things as you kind of suggest. Epstein boug a plane, bought a home from les wexner. From below market value . From at the time it does seem like that. Like, is it bad that you know, i mentioned the 10 million plane. Why is that an issue that epste epstein bought a 10 million plane . If youre a Public Company you cant be selling items like a plane to the ceos friends buddy at a really belowmarket price. That could be improper. And is there financial record of this transaction . And there are also others that they are looking into. This shows all the tentacles that this story continues to show us. And were all going to be investigating. And i think its just the beginning it seems as to the people that are connected as has been alleged. Yes. Les wexner he could not have been. Jeffrey epstein cannot have been who he is without les wexner. But there are many others that he was involved in, and were digging into all of them. Gregory zuckerman, thank you so much. Great story. Coming up we take a deeper look at President Trumps relationship with saudi arabia. 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Were the tenneys were the hayles, and were usaa members for life. Get your usaa Auto Insurance quote today. Welcome back. Congress and the white house are set to face off again over the president s relationship with saudi arabia. On and mod the senate will try to override President Trumps veto and block the u. S. From selling more than 8 billion in weapons to saudi arabia, the united arab emirat United Arab Emirates and jordan as well. Its not clear whether they have the votes, only a handful backed them in june, no the enough to garner the majority of 67 votes needed to override a president ial veto. Many law mamakers want the saud to be held sponle for the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Lets now welcome the former spokesperson for the United Nations to syria and the senior fellow for American Progress and former Deputy Assistant secretary of state for east asian and pacific affairs. Thank you both for joining us. Michael, i will start with you, the president s reasons for veto includes this, protecting 80,000 americans living in saudi, who he says are at risk for attacks by rebels in yemen, he also said degrading saudi arabias military preparedness and help the saudis stand up to iran. We heard the president say over and over again it would hinder the u. S. Economy because this is an 8 billion deal. What do you make of these reasons, michael . Well, they dont stand up to snuff i think here to be frank. The reality is President Trumps decision here is shocking but not surprising. From day one when he took office, hes been taking the side of saudi arabia over the side of the United States. Whether its with sharing Sensitive Nuclear Technology information with saudi arabia or taking saudi arabias side in the blockade of cut qatar, all the way to the response to the murder of u. S. Resident Jamal Khashoggi, or yemen, hes been taking saudi arabias side over the United States. You have to ask the question here, why, why would the United States president be doing that . And actually and especially be doing that in the face of what rarely happens in d. C. These days, which is in the face of opposition from some in his own party. The only two potential answers ive got here really are, one, financial interests. His own . His own potential financial interests, the Saudi Arabian princes and other senior officials frequently go and stay at President Trumps hotels in new york and washington. Many but also there are reports of potential innites and connections between saudis and jared kushner. But the other one i think is this warp, twisted debate we have in washington sometimes where anything seems like it could be done to stand up to iran, is therefore somehow in u. N. Interests. Also talking about the u. S. Economy, this is an 8 billion deal. The Gross Domestic Product right now standing at more than 21 trillion. 8 billion in that respect is a drop in the bucket. Right. If he were to have vetoed this arms sale, it would not have made a huge difference to the u. S. Economy. No. And also, this is a point i like to make, this is not the 1930s. Were not in the great depression. We dont need this sale for any reason. We dont need it to create jobs. We dont need it to make profit. If somebody else wants to fill that void, if russia wants to el is arms to saudi arabia, let them. Thats fine. We have plenty of other opportunities, but make sure our values are standing. On one hand this has to do with supporting our principles and values abroad, right. And messaging to saudi arabia that there are human rights abuses and their way of conducting war is not feasible. But that second point is the most critical, right . These arm sales theres not a topdown message if the president is vetoing this. Right. You know what whats ironic, this has bipartisan support. I know you mentioned earlier, this is not a lot of republicans but still a group whom are important lindsey graham, the president s golf buddy being very outspoken. Absolutely. The heed of the day selliend of to be in line with President Trumps perspectives. Le they had the strategy for ending the the yemen war and its not working. From the standpoint of our values and Foreign Policy objectives, it just doesnt make sense. Michael, heres what the president said about the conflict in yemen. He said the United States is very concerned about the conflicts toll on innocent civilians, working hard to bring the conflict in yemen to an end. And he goes on to say we cannot he ed it in timeconceiving ruses as the conflict goes on. He said this arms sales will only prolong it. I think thats completely ridiculous and its been made clear by this administrations policy for the last couple of years. P theyve been enhancing support, u. S. Support, since they came into office for saudi arabias war in yemen. And they have made it abundantly clear. This is again not the first time that he has rejected measures from congress to try to force his hand to stop the war in yemen and especially u. S. S involvement in that war. This president , again, is bending over backwards to support saudi arabia. And, of course, amidst all of this, the responsible role mbs played in the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and we have to continue to mention that. Thank you both very much. We have breaking news from the white house. Hans nichols is standing by. What do you have for us . The president is in the oval office right now and hes saying he reached a Safe Third Party agreement with the country of guatemala and theyre signing a joint declaration inside the oval right now. Were basing this on the pool report thats coming out. We will get a full tape playback but it looks like at first cut, the white house has achieved an agreement with guatemala to allow migrants from el salvador from honduras to come up and apply for asylum there. The president is also going out of his way to thank mexico for the 6,000 troops this he have on their southern border. This is part of the whole approach by the Trump Administration to stop the knfl of migrants. We will get all of the details in just a bit. Its interesting, hans, it seems this is coming after the president threatened a travel ban with guatemala. Not just a travel ban, but ban on remittances, which would have been devastating to the economy in guatemala. They have a workers here in the United States that send a lot of money back. So those threats were tuesday and wednesday. You remember the president of the guatemala was supposed to be here monday. That trip didnt half. The white house never announced the trip was back on. I will be interesting to see if president morales is in the oval office. It wasnt on the president s official schedule today. It looks like this might have been last minute and they didnt want to raise expectations. We will see if they have the deal and just what the exact details of that deal are. Guys . Hans nichols, thank you very much. We will be following this story and you will be bringing it to us as it develops. Im in for ali velshi. I will see you right back here at 6 00 p. M. Eastern for the beat with ari. Its a long day for me but im loving it. Thank you for watching. You can watch or listen on sirius xm radio, tune in to msnbc. Com now and msnbc app and anil tv. Deadline white house with Nicolle Wallace starts right now. Aloha and namaste, everyone. I apologize im not Nicolle Wallace. Im john heilemann. Its 4 00 in new york and im here for miss nicolle, who has the day off today. A democrat going where no House Democrat has gone before. Jerry nadler suggesting his committee is already in effect conducting impeachment inquiries against donald trump. Just saying theres no difference between what youre doing now and impeachment debate, right . A new development in the impeachment debate, demanding more of