And Paul Manafort. Do you think i had any contact with carter page . Sam i dont know. Well the answer is no. Sam, thank you for calling in. It is 3 00, i have to hand things over to kasie hunt. Come back live on our show tomorrow. Or come back on our air at 5 00. Tell her i said hello, okay. Im sure she can hear you. Sam nunberg, thank you very much. And that will do it for me. Kasie hunt picks things up. Can i keep you for a second. Because i think we need to break down what just happened there. You can. Im going to ask the forgiveness of my producers for ignoring the script for just a moment before we get started. You just spent several minutes talking to sam nunberg that i worked as well covering this campaign. It was remarkable conversation and i was thinking you should let him stay on the phone there. What did you take away from that exchange and lets just recap for our viewers who may have just tuned in. So tam n sam nunberg has said he wont appear in front of a grand jury on friday. He had been issued a subpoena for his appearance and a number of documents relating to a number of people within the Trump Campaign. The Trump Administration and folks still associated with donald trump. There is ten people on the list. It is steve bannon, rick gates, Paul Manafort, hope hicks, Cory Lewandowski, Keith Schiller and donald trump himself. There are a couple of others. Im sure you have a graphic you can put there on the screen. Roger stone as well and carter page. Sam nunberg said he will refuse to and he said he will tear it up at 6 00 p. M. And he doesnt think he should have to hand over any email or documents related to any of his communications. It seems like he didnt want to hand over documents related to roger stone or steve bannon, two people he is close with. As you well know has a long standing relationship with roger stone. He said roger stone was his mentioner in his conversation with you. Exactly. But the question is go toing come up, is who got to him in the last 24 hours. Did somebody get to him and tell him not to talk about the grand jury . That is a big question. Or what did he come across in going through his documents, his emails and recordings and Text Messages or notes or whatever, that would convince him that it is a better idea to snub your nose at a grand jury. And that is a big thing to do. Especially in this circumstance. Weve seen Robert Mueller and his team prove that theyre not going to let even minor deviations slip. They will get you for lying no matter what. The smallest, smallest thing. The smallest infraction. Theyre not messing around. Im not a lawyer. Im not on Robert Muellers legal team. Im not a federal prosecutor, but i imagine that this is not going to be taken well. Maybe he is a low man on the totem pole for them. But if they allow sam nunberg to snub his nose at them, who else will they allow to do it . Will they be setting a precedent and just set that press dents. And remember, sam nunbergs name is a name well during the campaign and the other figures that Robert Mueller has spent time on and has leveled charges against and include people that we had never heard of. Minor figures in the campaign. If you are okay to stick with me i would like to include you in the next conversation because we want to remind our viewers that these documents that mueller wants, include Text Messages, emails, work papers, telephone logs and other documents going back as far as november 1st, 2015. Less than five months after then candidate trump first launched his campaign. Here is more of what former Trump Campaign aide sam nunberg told katy tur a few minutes ago. I was preparing it, should i spend 50 hours going over all of my emails with roger and with steve bannon . And then they wanted emails that hi with hope hicks, with Cory Lewandowski. Are you giving me a break . It is ridiculous. Nbc news Intelligence National security reporter ken delaneya and katy tur and john harwood is with me on set as well. Ken, help katy and i fill in the blanks here because we have not covered the nittygritty of this investigation the way that you do every single day. What is your takeaway based on that conversation that katy just had about what sam nunberg might be worried about and more importantly just for ow viewers broader understanding, what are the consequences of ripping up a subpoena from Robert Mueller to appear before his grand jury. Kasie, i think the viewers got a taste of the kind of pressure that people come under when they are the subject or a witness in an investigation of this magnitude. Now with sam nunberg, he happened to voice it on national television. But a lot of people around donald trump are going through the same kind of feel gz. Theyre called in for hours of interviews and then asked to testify before the grand jury and get hit with a subpoena that caus causes them go to go through the record and talking about 50,000 to lawyers and mentioned his lawyers would dump him now after this public spectacle. It is hard for those of you who have never experienced this to appreciate the kind of pressure and the kind of emotional pain this can bring on people. I think we have a glimpse of it. As for the consequences, you cant defy a grand jury subpoena. Can you be held in context context of court and obstruction of justice. As soon as he gets new legal counsel, he will be counseled, you cant do this. If they want you they can get you. You can try to get a judge to quash a subpoena on legal grounds but that is the system. And you could assert the fifth amendment and say i wont talk about x, y or z to acrim nate me and no one ais accusing him. And he is frustrated. And he was on the air not too long ago saying the taxpayers were getting the money out of there and the mueller team was smart and well prepared and every question they asked him had a purpose and they knew a lot. Hes completely changed his tune today. And i think partly it may due to the appreciate and katie was speculated about what else might be going on. We should be asking those questions. There is a lot of emails. If you had and this is not justifying this move at all. But if you consider just the mails that we have in our daily lives or the Text Messages and phone logs, it is quite a bit of work that goes into providing this. Everyone needs to remember this is a really significant investigation. This is an investigation not only into whether or not or how a foreign power meddled in our election but also an investigation into whether or not the president s campaign team, while he was running, coordinated with those russians. It is a very big and serious charge. And sam nunberg himself as ken just noted and i noted a moment ago, said this was a legitimate investigation and they were doing a good job with it. So it is katy, forgive me for interrupting. I hope we can pick this up. But right now we have to go to sarah huckab Sarah Huckabee sanders who is taking questions. You said the secretarys conduct with consistent with the standards the president has established for the v. A. As that continues to be under review. I cant go any further than i have already. The speaker of the house is very concerned, urging the president not advance with his plan, that is a direct quote, and that a trade war could, quote, jeopardize the gains achieved through the tax cut and tax reform. What is your reaction to speaker ryan. We have a great relationship with speaker ryan. Well continue to have one. But that doesnt mean we have to agree on everything. The president has been committed and talked about this for many years. Particularly on the campaign trail and people came out loud and clear and supported this president and therefore supporting the policy thats he campaigns on. We want to solve the problem. The president believed in free, fair and reciprocal trade and hopes other countries will join him in pursuing that goal. The president wants to make sure were doing everything we can to protect American Workers and to protect Industries Like the steel and aluminum industry that are so important to our country. And nothing about this would jeopardize that Economic Growth as the speaker feels. The president feels strongly that we have to protect some of the industries that are the backbone of this country. And we have to protect American Workers. We cant ignore these industries. It is a matter of economic and National Security and something that he feels very strongly about and well continue to move forward. So it looks like the deadline on daca is going to come and go with no resolution. Clearly any action that the white house would take is suspended by the courts. About what is the next step and what is your message to congress that seems so badly that wants to fix daca and hasnt done anything to do it . I think it is absolutely terrible that congress has failed to act. The president Gave Congress six months and he also gave them a plan. He gave them four pillars that he wanted to see in legislation. Legislation and principles that the majority of members of the congress have supported in the past. They claim to want to fix daca. The president laid out a pathway and an exact way to do that. They failed to address it. But were still hopeful that congress will do their jobs, show up and get something done and fix this problem, not kick it down the road and not continue to ignore it. When it eventually gets to the Supreme Court, i assume youre expecting a favorable ruling from the Supreme Court and then what happens . We fully expect to win on an appeal if we need to go to the Supreme Court, we feel very confident there as well. It is congresss job to pass laws. And the president has laid out what he wants to see and the sad part is that both republicans and democrats dont disagree on most of the merits of this legislation. The fact that they cant actually come together and get something done is pathetic and now theyre using the courts as an excuse. They need to come to work and do what they were elected to do. If the Court Reinstate his authority to rescind the daca protection and the korcongress doesnt act [ inaudible question ]. Were still asking congress to do their jobs. Jordan. The president had tough words for u. S. Allies today on trade. On the same day were ripping off the u. S. Just as much as our enemies, so is the president has the president ruled out exceptions under the steel and aluminum tariffs for certain allies or are those still on the table. Were still finalizing the final deal and i wont get ahead of the president s announcement. John. [ inaudible question ]. Well keep you posted. Many republicans including the House Speaker were caught off guard by the president s decision as it relates to tariffs. Were they caught off guard or given a heads up either way. I think they should have been well aware that again something the president has been shy talking about this for quite sometime. If they were caught off guard, they havent bin listen to what hes been saying and talking about and how hes promised to make good trade deals and make free, fair and reciprocal trade in this country. And is the president opening to discussion this particular issue that hes at odds with the House Speaker, trying to find a compromise perhaps on this . Im no going to get ahead of anything right now. But again the president will do what what he feels is necessary to protect American Workers. You had mentioned last week that the prouse w the white house would come out with a proposal on guns or let congress know. Where is that proposal . Were continuing to have those conversations. The president has laid out some specific things and some specific places that he does support. For instance, again, reiterating the support for the cornyn bill and the stop gun violence act. Those are two pieces of legislation that the president supports. Were going to continue some of the discussions that have been ongoing, continue to engage with congress. As we lay out some more details of what wed like to see. Including the meeting that will take place on thursday. With some of the leaders of the video game industry. Moving the embassy to jerusalem, the president said it would cost 250,000 to build the em bass the u. S. Embassy there. What was he referring to or what did he mean by that . For more specifics i think the point hes making is hes going to do it faster and far less expensive than a billion dollars project was projected. On the tariffs, the president tweeted that trade wars with good, easy to win. Ask you explain what he meant by that . Look, the president i think is very confident if that is what where we ended up, we certainly would win. But that is not the goal. The goal is to get free, fair and reciprocal trade and hope that other countries will join him. And paul ryan is practically pleading with the president to reverse course on this. Are you saying that there is no way hes going to reverse course on this . The president said today that he wasnt backing down. But in terms of the specifics of what it looks like, im not going to get into that because those things are being finalized. So it is possible the details may change. Well we havent fully rolled out all of the details so it is hard to say theyre going to change since we havent put them all out. But at the top sign he said 25 tariff on steel and 10 on aluminum imports aplieg app to everybody. Again, im not going further than comments hes made and any other details, well let you know when were ready. Secretary pruitt is under scrutiny for his first class travel and secretary carson is under scrutiny for the 31,000 dining set. And that was canceled, just to be clear. After media scrutiny. But if could you explain the way it has viewed and taken all three of the secretaries behavior how you fit this is pattern of draining the swamp. As the president said, he takes spending taxpayer dollars seriously. All of those individual secretaries travel and other are under review and i cant speak further while that is ongoing. Is he draining im sorry. Can you explain how this behavior is consist went his directive to drain the swamp. And they are under review and once that is completed well know but i cant get into anything further there. The president thought the palestinians wanted to come back to the table to talk about mideast peace. Can you talk about what hes basing were as committed as weve ever been to the Peace Process and continuing having those conversations and pushing to get something done. Is he sme something the rest of us is he seeing something that the rest of us arent seeing. He sees a lot of things that the rest of the people dont. Were getting sam nunberg, the former Campaign Aide is refusing a subpoena by the judge and he just said on msnbc meaning the president may have done something during the election, but i dont know that for sure. Youre reaction . I think he doesnt know that for sure. Because hes incorrect. As weve seed befor weve sai before, there was no collusion with the Trump Campaign and he hasnt worked at the white house so i cant speak to him or the lack of knowledge that he clearly has. What is your reaction for him not cooperating with the grand jury, refusing this subpoena. Would you encourage the witnesses to come forward and tell their story. I wont weigh into somebody that doesnt work at the white house. I c i can tell you from our perspective we are fully cooperative with the office of the special counsel and wild continue to do so and the reason we are so comfortable doing so is because there is absolutely no collusion within the Trump Campaign and any Foreign Government. Let me ask you one on trade. Commerce secretary wilbur ross was asked if there is any possibility the president could change his mind on the new tariffs. He said whatever his final ziz is what will happen. What he has said he said. If he said Something Different it will be Something Different. If this was a carefully thought out policy, why the mixed messaging. I dont think there is mixed messaging. This is a president this is a decision [ inaudible question ]. This is a decision that will ultimately be made by the president. And so there are a lot of legal details that are being finalize pd and the secretary wont get ahead of that and the president and at the end of the day the president will make i decision on and do so fully with the idea of doing what he can protect American Workers and to promote economic and National Security. Two questions. Two topics. What, if anything, of a shift was there today in Jared Kushners position as it relates to the meetings with netanyahu today . None at all that im aware of. So as it relates to security clearance he doesnt have the security clearance that he had as weve said many times before, i wont comment on any individual security clearance. But he is still carrying on duties today in that meeting. His role wasnt impacted today. And second question. Father flagger from st. Devine church in chicago has written President Trump at least twice and in reference to chicago and guns. And you say that youre going to continue conversations about guns. What do you think someone should bring to the table as he is someone who is on the ground with gangs and dealing with the issue of guns, something a focal point of this president chicago as well. I would have to look into that. Im not aware of the individual or the letters and so i would have to check into that before i could make a comment on it. Does the president believe we should take guns from people who are dangerous before due process. The president thinks we need to expedite the process. And make sure if somebody is potentially harmful to themselves or other people, that we have the ability to expedite that process. Certainly want to have due process but make sure that it is not tied up for months and months and months and someone that could potentially be dangerous is allowed to have a gun without us being able to expedite that process and that is what he would like to see us do. Peter. We reported today that the president s private Attorney Michael Cohen had trouble reaching him toward the end of the campaign to talk about the 130,000 payment to stephanie clifford. Did the president and Michael Cohen talk about this payment at any time during the campaign or there thereafter. Not that i know about. And i want to ask you about the Peace Process and the difficulty in reaching a deal, it has been more than a year since netanyahus sincenet since netanyahus first visit and he said to achieve a great peace deal hes be doing it diligently. Why hasnt the administration put forward a proposal. Well do that when the time is right but continue pushing forward. Were as committed as weve ever been and continue in it process and well let you know when we have an announcement on that plan. It seems there has been any progress within this administration to achieving some kind of proposal. Why would that be. Were not going to get ahead of where we are in this process. The conversations are still op going. This wasnt a problem that was created in a short amount of time. I dont think well fix it overnight. But it is something were very committed to fixing and to being part of and were going to continue those conversations and continue pushing for that peace. John. Thank you, sarah. Two brief questions. First the new yorker is carrying a story in which the former british agent Christopher Steel claims that russian sources within the kremlin torpedoed the nomination of governor romney to be secretary of state because hes a sworn enemy of the putin regime. The administrations response to that claim . Im not aware of anything regarding that and dont know that to be factual in any capacity at all. Blake. My other question. Two questions. Yeah. When the president announced the tariffs on china, he said they would be in affect for a very long time. Im curious, why didnt he simply say until china relents on its policy on steel. And give a set goal tor the tariffs. The president s ultimate goal is to get free, fair and reciprocal trade and if china wants to come to the table and play ball and make some significant changes, then i think wed be open to those kofgs. But at this point, we havent seen an indication of that take place. One last question. Blake. And to end with trade. There was a Study Released today showing that this would be a the proposal is a net loss of 146,000 jobs. Has the white house studied how many jobs may be lost or created because of this policy. Look, this is something the president is committed to doing and he feels that both our National Security are vitally important in this process and we have to be able to have these industries to protect that and so that is a big part of the goal. Do you have any studies im not going to say that were not look at every facet because we are. It is a thoughtful and long process but that is the focus of the decision that hes making. And the president s close friend carl icahn sold stock to a Company Related to this issue before the president made his announcement. Can you tell us the last time the president has spoken with mr. Ican and told him of what he was planning im not aware of a recent conversation between the two of them and i would have to verify and get back to you. Im not aware of any questions. Thanks guys. Im good go im going to let these guys take a break and if they want to say anything, they are welcome to make a quick comment before we leave. Speak to the moral of the white house [ inaudible question ]. I definitely would not agree. Were in a great place. We have an incredible story to tell. It is a historic first year and were continuing to focus on the things that president Trump Campaigned on. Were excited about what weve done and where were going and were going to continue working hard for the american people. Just a real quick im going to let these guys take a break. Thanks, guy. Sarah, this is the third briefing youve not taken a question from cnn. That is Sarah Sanders. Back with me ken delanian and john harwood and katy tur. And well get Kristin Welker up in a second because kristin was the one asking questions about the story that we have been covering here at that briefing there were a wide varity of things discussed, daca and tariffs but i want to come back to this point and, katy, i want to get your perspective but john harwood and i were chat being what we think is the and kristen alluded to this in the question. You asked, does mueller have something on the president. That is the question of sam nunberg and john harwood seemed to suggest there was maybe something there. He said i think they may and he said, referring to trump, he may have done something during the election. Now i dont know exactly what sam nunberg might have been referring to and i think our colleague ken delanian made the right point earlier when you talked to him saying that sam was evidencing the pressure he was under and the people and caught up in this investigation are under pressure. But i think that pressure is cracking open stuff at a faster rate than a lot of us expected and i think the fact that Robert Mueller is requesting information about contacts that sam nunberg and other people had with the entire lists of people suggestez he is honing in on stuff significant to the white house. Katy tur, lets talk through for our viewers who sam nunberg may not be a house hold name because it is a while since hes been in the campaign. And clearly this is about his relationship with roger stone. A longtime adviser to this president. They both had a break with the now president during the campaign. Hes quite a character. You could tell. Indeed. And how that relates to roger stone. So sam worked for roger stone. They both worked for the donald Trump Campaign. Early on in the beginning months of the campaign, and they both got let go relatively early. Sam is a longtime gop analyst, a strategizer strategist, i should say not strategizer. Any way, a long time gop strategist. He is not fringe, but that is best word to describe him. He is a unique operator. He operates with reporters in a way that a lot of people dont. A new york character. He was involved in getting donald trump prepared to announce he was going to run for president. Getting him to hold the positions that he got. Sam talks about how immigration was his policy. He talked about how the wall was his idea. He talked about why they decided to run on an immigration platform. He talked about in this interview, trying to tell donald trump that being on the side of russia wasnt necessarily the best thing for a gop primary. But at the same time, a gop primary would side with Vladimir Putin over siding with obama. He talked about early ideas for the campaign. He was let go early on. A couple of months into the campaign. After donald trump officially announced, for a racist Facebook Post about reverend al sharpton and it blew up into a mini controversy and donald trump got rid of him early on because he didnt want to deal with that sort of allegation, that there are racists in the Trump Campaign. He had a war with the Cory Lewandowski and they did not get along. And that was part of it. Cory lewandowski took the position to make sure he wasnt part of it any more. Sam feels that Cory Lewandowski helped expose the old Facebook Posts as a way it get him out. The two did not get along. Very clearly there was a power struggle between them. But sam has been a long time adviser of trump. So hes been in and out of Donald Trumps favor over the years. Even recently. But you heard him there a moment ago saying hes no fan of trump. Remember, trump sued him during the campaign and sam thumbed his nose. I had almost forgotten about it. And sam thumbed his nose at donald trump and said you cant see me, im beautiful or Something Like that. So obviously he has a very big personality. This is it is news worthy and it is just absurdity. It is news worthy that he wouldnt sit for the grand jury because of the significance of the investigation, how seriously the investigators are taking it. It is significant that he wa walk walked away from the room and after a meeting with the special counsel investigators and said they have something on donald trump. Im spoken to other folks who have been interviewed and when they describe the room, they say that muellers team really knows what they are talking about. That theyve recreated entire scenes. That is not in sam nunberg but recreated entire scenes and tell you were sitting next to and what you said in a room. Things that you may not even remember that you did. Things that you may not even remember that you d. And so everybody that sit for a interview has said they are very serious. They are very thorough. And that the team knows way, way, way more than you think they know. And katy, and kasie, both of you, preak bharara, the former u. S. Attorney in new york just tweeted a few minutes ago, i would bet that Robert Mueller already has sam nunbergs mails. Whether or not he decides to make a show of ripping up his subpoena and getting arrested and going to jail for contempt, that information is probably already in the possession of his team. And we talked to Chuck Rosenberg about that and he said the subpoena was relatively standard, boilerplate and asking for a number of people on the list but ult play ultimately be the special counsel is focusing in on one or two others and to redirect where the attention is. It could be that they have all of those communications already. And with what their going to do with it is check against what sam had said in the interview, or check against what somebody else said in another interview to see who could be relied on, and who was cooperating and truthful and not being truthful. And perhaps that is why sam nunberg didnt necessarily want to sift through all of the emails. Critzen welker, i want to get to you. Youve been very patiently standing by for us. And it was you who were questioning Sarah Huckabeesanders about sam nunberg and other topics. What is your takeaway from what weve heard hear from katys interview and from Sarah Sanders. Reporter the whole thing is remarkable. This is just breaking as the briefing was getting started. Katy was wrapping up her interview. I will reread the portion that i asked Sarah Sanders about. Sam nunberg told katie, i think he may have done something during the election, presumably a reference to then candidate trump. Take a listen to the ex change i just had about that. I definitely think he doesnt know that for sure because hes incorrect. As weve said many times before, there was no collusion with the Trump Campaign. Anything further on what his s ac his actions are and he wasnt worked in the white house so i what is your opinion about him refusing the subpoena. Im not going to weigh into somebody that doesnt work at the white house. I could tell you from our perspective, we are fully cooperating with the office of the special counsel and well continue to do so. And ill reiterate once again the reason we are so comfortable doing so is because there is absolutely no collusion within the Trump Campaign and any Foreign Government. So a defients sar a defian Sarah Sanders pushing back the idea that Robert Mueller may have something on President Trump. And you heard her stress something that we have heard this white house stressed and the legal Team Stressed they are cooperating with this special counsel, turning over thousands of documents and also a number of people have sat for an interview with the counsels team. And kasie, very quickly on the hot button topic and i questioned why wilbur ross had a muddled message about whether this was made up and she said the president had the final say and they seemed to leave the door open for a little bit to be wiggle room. She was asked about the fact that top republicans, House Speaker paul ryan are urging this president to reverse course. Not to follow through with those tariffs. Warning that it could spark a trade war. Of course President Trump earlier said he doesnt think there is a trade war despite the fact that even the e. U. Is already threatening retaliation. So a lot of headlines here. But again, Sarah Sanders responding to that remarkable interview by katy tur moments ago. Another headspinning day in the news. Kristen, thank you. Ken delanian, i want to follow up on some points that katie was making and additional questions. One of the things that sam nunberg raised as a potential problem was the gathering of this information. Texts, emails, and in this day and age, it is realive relatively if you use gmail and coy give you my emails from the freshman year in college if you wanted them. Is that a reasonable way of saying, hey, i really need to get out of this because i simply cannot do this . Of course not. You have to fulfill the bomt request to t the document request to the best of your ability. And it is amazing that a spokesperson for the executive branch did not encourage this person to comply with a lawful grand jury issued by the executive branch. And no, you dont get to say, look this is too hard and i cant comply. I also want to go back to a question that sam nunberg said he was asked by the special counsel. During that interview was did donald trump ever take action based on russian business interests. I found that to be a fascinating question for the authorities to still be asking a year and a half after this investigation into potential russian collusion began. Dont forget july 2016 is when the fbi began looking at this and there is a narrative for some corn corners that the question of collusion is receding and the focus is there is no evidence that it is true but they are still asking key witnesses, to me seems profound profoundly significant. And they are asking if he heard anybody speak russian around trump tower. That is really glaring. What do they know and what do investigators know about people speaking russian at trump tower if we go to the premise that they know more than you do, why would that question come up and who could they possibly be pointing to . Right. And katie, i want to go back as well to another gem, from your interview just a few minutes ago. Just take a look. What if people think it looks suspicious. Let them think what they want. Let them think what they want. Im the first person to go out here and say im not cooperating. Because it is absolutely ridiculous what they want from me. Katy, i spent 2080 hours going over emails ive had with steve bannon and roger stone. If you are going to defy a grand jury subpoena, are you worried about being held in conte content of court. Lets see what he does. Are you worried about get get ago rested. He said what do you think mueller is going to do to me. And john harwood, i want to bring you in here too, if sam nunberg so wants to defend roger stone, why would he not turn over all of his mails if his mails and communications would exonerate roger stone . Kasie, i dont think much of what sam nunberg said made sense except the basic point where he said im not cooperating. Everyone can draw whatever conclusions they want from somebody who is being targeted by Robert Mueller saying im not going to participate. But it looks as if he thinks there is something that he doesnt want bob mule tore find out. Unfortunately for sam nunberg, it is probably that bob mueller already knows those things and hes trying to test sam nunbergs recollection against other information that he has. Katy tur, what is your sense of how his relationship with roger stone and the Julian Assange piece of this works together. It seems like that the collusion investigation and ken was making that distinction between question of collusion and obstruction of justice, may center around the wikileaks emails that you questioned trump about during the campaign. Yeah. So, listen, last week we reported at nbc that muellers team was asking witnesses, witnesses plural, i should say, about Donald Trumps knowledge of the john Podesta Emails. Not just one witness. But multiple witnesses. About the john Podesta Emails and what donald trump knew when. Part of the focus was on that july 27th press conference in 2016 this was one at his golf course in doral and in the middle of the Democratic National convention. Unusual for any candidate to hold a press conference during that because usually you allow your competitor to have their three or four days in the convention spotlight. Donald trump was obviously not one of those not going to abide by that tradition. And so he has the press conference and were there. At the time, to bring you back, it was the dnc mails had just started to trickle out. And donald trump was asked about the dnc emails, asked if he would tell russia not to interfere in our politics, and donald trump said, why i would do that. I dont have to do that. I dont have to ask putin anything and he turned to the camera rather abruptly and said, russia, if you are listening. Would like to see Hillary Clintons 30,000 emails. It didnt come out of the blue but it was certainly a hold on, what the heck did he just say moment . And i remember i was sitting there and i my hand shot up and i am waving it frantically. And i ended up blurting out a question to him. Does it not give you pause to ask a Foreign Government to interfere or to hack into a an american citizens plaemaild he said no, it doesnt give me pause and we went back and forth and he said if russia or china or anybody has them, i would love to see them. And that is a flag for investigators when it happened. And now the special counsel is going back and saying because he asked for clintons emails, could he have potentially known that John Podestas mail was hacked and was he trying to give himself cover . Was that kasie another version of that might be collusion in plain sight. Potentially. And then where does roger stone fit into this. That is my question. How does that was the last conversation candidate trump had with roger stone. Yeah. Hold on. So ill get to that. Im sorry, im giving you a whole hist ory lesson. And we are also joined by Jennifer Rubin who will weigh in in a second. Continue. Ill be quick. So roger stone so roger stone come news this because in august, late august, august 21st he tweets it is soon going to be podestas time in the barrel. And then the access Hollywood Tape comes out and then Podesta Emails get leaked and released and every day in fr then until election day a new batch were loo released. We havent seen a new batch since election day. So that is very suspicious to the Mueller Investigation or so we are told. So they are asking questions about it. Was roger stone fired from the Trump Campaign or did he quit . Was there some sort of back channel . Were they talking on the side and was he really not working for donald trump . So that is how stone fits into it. And Jennifer Rubin can we get your perspective. And sam nunberg and katy tur. This is a bizarre interview that i think katy ever had. This is just absurd. And dont know why hes doing it. Does he need the attention or become some kind of regular callin guest on the show. I dont know. But it is absurd. Youre giving a subpoena and you show up and if you dont show up, the marshalls come and get you and paut and put new jail. And i thought the interesting part is he might have done something during the campaign. And if you try to get on the good side of president and flip it around and say he may have done something wrong during the campaign. S is just a little weird. Youve written a lot about what the values of being a republican used to mean and what in your view they do or dont mean now. What is your take on the president , roger stone and him seeming to know that russia had mails that he would like to see. Well, im old enough to remember when republicans used to be tough on russia. Like a year and a half ago. There is still a few of them behind us. Exactly. A dwindling number. So all of his behavior with regard to Vladimir Putin has been bizarre since the getgo. He has criticized everyone on the planet except for putin. He was presumably pursuing a business deal for trump tower in moscow at the time he was having debates on the topic of russia. Not saying any critical words about him. As weve just gotten through, encouraged and asked for email and assistance. And of course we have this large number of people on his campaign who just so happen to be russia connected. Let me tell you, in all of the president ial campaigns im or john has had, theyve never had one, let a let alone a whole string of them and if you do a context and connect the dot kine bizarre meeting in trump tower. This is not the behavior of anyone i think who would have run for president on either side of the aisle. And it is this kind of bizarre compliance by the rest of the republicans as if this was all okay and normal and acceptable and that carried forward in the investigation when theyve not been doing a hearty job, on the house side of investigating. And ken delanian if you are still with me. I am. Can you put in context, jen m jennifer mentioned all of the people with the connections to russia in the Trump Campaign and weve seen mueller do with the exception of Paul Manafort, he has brought up these smaller figures, kind of out of obscurity, george popadopoulos, and charge them with essentially lying to him. As part of this, what does it say to you that now sam nunberg, who is closer to this inner circle, is being pursued by the grand jury. How how does that fit into this broader what you know about how mule ser doing this. Im going to be honest, kasie, it is hard to know. There is so much that we dont know about what Robert Mueller knows. But youre absolutely right. George papadopoulos is a crucial figure when you talk about mails and Wiki Wikileaks and said they had the hacked emails and now cooperating with Robert Mueller. And now the big question is did he tell tell his superiors on the campaign and that might be the most important of the investigation and it speaks to why they are asking witnesses whether donald trump was aware that the russians had the emails and was coordinating with the release of those emails to wikileaks. And carter page is another guy with russia connections who took a trip to moscow and there are questions about whether page knew what papadapoulos knew. But the fundamental question about why the campaign attracted these people and Paul Manafort had his own set of russian connections, it is hard to know. Did they come to the campaign or did the campaign seek them out. What is the was there an in filtation attempted infiltration of the campaign from the outside in or was the campaign seeking those people out. We havent gotten to the bottom of. That and well play a key section and then well continue our conversation on the other side. You sat there in that room being questioned by muellers investigators. I want to hear directly from you. Do you think that they have something on the president . I think they may. What . I think he may have done something during the election. But i dont know that for sure. Why do you think that . I cant explain it unless you were in there. Explain the atmosphere. Um, the way they ask questions about anything i heard after i was fired from the campaign to the general election, to even november 1, it insinuated to me that he may have done something. And we now have the chairman of the Democratic National committee with us. Mr. Tom perez, thank you so much for being with us. You are in many ways the perfect person to continue our discussion of that because it was the dnc that was partly the victim in addition to john podesta who was with Hillary Clintons campaign. Do you first of all, can i ask to you react to what sam nunberg is saying and doing here in taking this action. But also explore the hack itself and your view of did the president know before the dnc did that these emails were hacked . Right. Well, i also come to you as someone who spent over a decade at the department of justice. I worked there under republican and democratic administrations as a career prosecutor. And ill tell you, i watched the statements that you just made and from time to time, when we are doing investigations, somebody would try to stonewall us and director mueller is a big boy. He understands what to do and hell go to court. You go to court. You enforce the subpoena. And you get them to come in and im quite confident that he has the factual basis that will enable him to require him to come in. Now what i dont know is whether or not hell go in and take the fifth amendment because frankly when i read about what he was saying, my first question was, is he does he have exposure on his own. So hes trying to beat his chest a little bit. Because there are so many people that have been involved in this. And to answer your other question, there was a term we ti was a prosecutor and that was the term of consciousness of guilt. Theres a lot of people acting like theyve been involved in wrongdoing, and the actions of this president , whether its firing the former head of the fbi, whether its trying to pierce that bright line between the department of justice and the white house, so many things hes doing. Why he continues to be putins poodle. He says hes a tough guy, but hes really putins lap dog. And the only reason i can think of is because putin has something on him, and that to me is becoming clearer and clearer with every indictment, with every guilty plea. And as it relates to the dnc, this had a remarkably adverse impact. As you all know, because this wasnt simply an attack on the dnc. It was an attack on our democracy. Sir, one topic that comes up repeat repeatedly, President Trump has committed offenses that are impeachable and i should be impeached. Do you think based on what you know now, and what you ticked through, the president being putins poodle, does that amount to an Impeachable Offense and should the Democratic Party hold the position this president should be impeached . I think hes the most dangerous president in american history. Not only because of his refusal to take actions against russia. I mean, the most serious threat to the integrity of the elections is russia. I think hes the most dangerous president in history is because hes hurting American Workers. The most important thing i can do is to winnie lerkss a electi what weve been doing. In places like oklahoma, doug jones in alabama, elections in virginia and elsewhere. Im in Washington State because we have tremendous opportunity to pickup congressional seats. Weve seen what happens when you take over the state senate, Washington State just enacted a wide array of Voting Rights reforms to make it easier for people to vote. They did so because the democrats finally took over the state senate. So, i feel like my role is to make sure we are electing democrats everywhere. Hes undeniably the most dangerous president in american history. We have to make sure that his tenure is as short as possible. Very quickly before i let you go, sir, ufrm been in something of a spat with dccc, the Democratic CongressionalCampaign Committee on that topic of elections, they have been playing in some congressional races in favor of incumbents soin some cases. Do you think they need to back off . I think they have every right to be endorsing in contested primaries. What i would do differently is simply i wouldnt attack a democrat that you havent endorsed. Thats something i think is not a good idea. And is that a lesson you learned from your own experience with Bernie Sanders running against Hillary Clinton and now your position in charge of a party that has this fracture . Its actually a lesson that ive learned from watching us win elections over the course of 2017. Look at virginia, for instance. When we had a spirited gubernatorial primary, people were concerned that it would be a redo of 2016. The opposite happened. And thats because both candidates talked about the issues they agree about, most of them. And people came together. There was record turnout in the primary. And that created a wind at our back that resulted in record breaking Election Results up and down the ticket in virginia. And so i think when we focus on what we stand for instead of focusing on perhaps an attack on someone, i think thats when were at our best and thats what weve tried to do at the dnc. Tom perez, chairman of the dnc, great to see you again. Thanks very much for your time, sir. Always a pleasure. Speaking of russian meddling, nbc news has confirmed a New York Times report that says the state department has yet to spend any of the 120 million allocated since late 2016 to counter foreign efforts to interfere in u. S. Elections. The report goes on to say, quote, as a result, not one of the 23 analysts working in the Departments Global Engagement Center which has been tasked with countering moscows Disinformation Campaign speaks russian. And a department hiring freeze has hindered efforts to recruit the computer experts needed to track the russian efforts. Joining me now is the person who broke that story, gardener harris, the New York Times state department covering diplomacy. Sir, walk us through this. It seems more than ever this would be an effort that would be in broad National Security interest of the United States. If the state department isnt doing it, is there anyone else who is . And why hasnt this money been spent . Usually Government Agencies have no problem spending the money that the Congress Gives them. Yeah. Secretary of state rex w. Tillerson has a unique problem with spending money. He doesnt like doing it. He has a lot of trouble making decisions. So, this is one of the most puzzling cases of his sort of refusal to spend money that congress has given him. This is clearly a problem. Russians are clearly involved in hacking, trying to hack the u. S. Elections, the mid terms just coming up. There is widespread agreement in the u. S. Intelligence community that the russians not only hacked the 2016 election, but will continue to do this, not only in the United States, but across western democracies. Congress got alarmed about this, wants somebody to step in. There is obviously a pentagon effort in the secret cyber end, but those weapons really dont work in this more open effort to sort of sow doubt and to amplify extreme voices in u. S. And other elections. So, thats why you need some people sort of out in the open showing where the russians are working, trying to show people that these news stories are fake, that these voices are actually russian voices. And secretary tillersons unwillingness to sort of get involved in this fight is bewhich wib be bewildering bewilderi bewildering to people on both sides of the aisle. I dont know what the conversations are between the president and the secretary of state. As we know, the president really has said nothing about these russian efforts. I mean, remember two weeks ago, russian mercenerys attacked. The battle is not just online. It is very much a real battle with real people in real lives. And the fact that neither the president nor really the secretary of state has addressed this is remarkable and surprising, again, to republicans and democrats on both sides. The New York Times state Department Correspondent gardener harris, appreciate your time. Glad to be here. Jennifer ruben, i know you have done some reporting on this. Can you weigh in on this story then well turn back sure. This was a subject of much discussion within the state department. There was a lot of frustration by people who were willing to talk to people like me and other reporters because this was not being done. The money was actually lodged for budgetary purposes in the pentagon. It had to be requested. And tillerson hadnt even requested the money. It wasnt until a spate of stories, washington post, politico came out that the two cosponsors of this bill, chris murphy and rob portman threw a fit essentially and wrote a bunch of letters saying, we want to know what youve been doing, why hasnt this been moving forward. So, it seemed that that did, in fact, jar a little bit of action and he put some people to work. But as youve seen, this appears to be more smoke and mirrors rather than substance. And you do have to wonder is this just more in the other story of state department dysfunction, which we all have been following, or is this part of trumps soft spot for Vladimir Putin. But put it together with mike rogers saying last week that he had not been asked by trump to counter the russian cyberattacks. And he said he didnt have the tools he needed. Right. He said the president didnt ask him to. Sam nunberg is part of this. The president of the United States had relied on russian money for years. He installed as the head of his campaign Paul Manafort, snb who had gotten tens of millions of dollars from putin allies. Foreign policy advisor carter page, suspected of being a russian spy. Foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos who within weeks of being named an advisor was meeting with that russian contact and being told of the emails. Then you have the trump tower meeting. When Sarah Sanders says no collusion by the Trump Campaign, jared kushner, Paul Manafort all went to a meeting in which they said, were delighted to have your information. And then youve got the roger stone previewing podesta. There is so much sitting right in front of us. Whatever bob mueller does that people can put that picture together. A really truly i feel like a broken record saying it is a remarkable state of affairs. I guess well see what tomorrow brings. Jennifer ruben, john harwood. Katy tur had to run. She gave you that interview with sam nunberg. That does it for me at this whirlwind hour. Ali velshi will be back tomorrow. Thats it for me on kasie d. C. Deadline white house with Nicolle Wallace starts right now. Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york with hope hicks on the way out and the rest of the president s inner circle with exit plans and internal squabbles. Someone should consider buying the president alexa so he could pose this mornings tweet to her. Alexa, why did the Obama Administration start an investigation into my campaign . Answer, because one of your Campaign Aides got drunk and blabd it away to an australian