Continues our coverage right now. All right. One similarity in all of those shootings is unlike a lot of other developed countries, the availability of guns. A lot of opinions about that. The fact is, that is the distinction in the United States. In no other developed country are there as many guns as readily available to people. What you do about that, whether you even think its a problem, that is the problem and a commonality. Sigh later. And im ali velshi feet from the church where a gunman opened fire killing 26 people. Breaking, nbc news learned the suspect was convicted during his time in the military of fracturing the skull of his infant stepson. Error today, we learned he had been sending threatening sexes to his motherinlaw who attended that church. Also learning more about the victims. Youngest of whom was only 18 months old. Many of the People Killed were from the same families. One man is now mourning his children, his grandchildren and his greatgrandchildren. Eight people dead from the same family in this one shooting. At this moment, investigators are working to piece together exactly what happened. The deceased actually ranged from 18 months to 77 years of age. 12 to 14 children, deceased in this shooting. All of a sudden we see one of the victims running out. He was bloody on his arms, part of his face. Hes telling us that his familys in there and somebody had gone in and shot up everything and that his family, kept saying my family, my family. He said there were bodies on top of bodies. The number one goal of Law Enforcement, neutralize the shooter. In this situation, two Good Samaritans did that for Law Enforcement. Talking to dispatch, doing about 95 mileanhour down this road, keeping up with this guy until he finally kind of lost control on his own and hit the bar ditch. Reporter what possessed you to do it . It was the right thing to do. The gunman identified at 26yearold devin kelly dressed in black tacticalstyle gear and armed with an assault rifle. He served in the air force, and was courtmartialed on Domestic Violence charges eventually given a bad conduct discharge. Until we can get all of the documentation to determine exactly what his discharge was we will not have a determination on if this individual was prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms. The suspects motherinlaw attended this church. We know he made threatening she had received threatening texts from him, but we want to get that out there this was not racially motivated. It wasnt over religious beliefs. Americans do what they do best. We pull together. We join hands. We lock arms, and through the tears and through the sadness, we stand strong. Oh, so strong. All right. About 30 hours in to this tragedy we have a lot of angles to get to. I want to go to Pete Williams, though. He joins me from washington. Pete, youve got the newest information on the shooter. What do you have . Reporter well, were getting more details about the nature of the courtmartial that resulted in him being kicked out of the air force in 2014. We now know that in 2012 he was charged with basically assault on his wife and infant son. That was the reason that they received a general courtmartial and a bad conduct discharge after serving a year in detention. What we now understand from the retired air force colonel who was in charge of all of these prosecutions at the time is that a little more about the nature of this assault. He was convicted of assaulting his wife and also his infant son, and causing the son to have a skull fracture. Now, i talked to this retired colonel who said he did not know the exact age of the son but said he was a baby. So given that, ali, one question has been, why was this derogatory information not in the system, and if it was, was it checked . And if it was checked, was it legally sufficient to deny him the Legal Authority to have a gun . Now, the atf talked some about the guns he bought. Heres what the atf senior official at the scene of the investigation has said. There was three firearms that have been recovered. One was the ruger 556 rifle uncovered at the scene of the church fwop additional handguns recovered from the vehicle. Of the deceased suspect. What we know is that he bought four weapons in total. Two of them were bought in colorado. Two bought here in texas. There was each one purchase purchase year in 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017. Reporter thats the rifle that you saw a moment ago, the ruger semiautomatic assaultstyle rifle that Authorities Say was used in the attack on the church, the gun dealer that sold that to him, to kelly, has said he bought it legally in 2016. So the gun dealer says it did the required background check and there was nothing disqualifying in it. So he was able to buy the weapon legally, ali. All right. Pete, thanks very much for your continued work on this. A lot of digging to do to get down to not only the motive but how this all happened. And with me also, youve been working straight the last 24 hours, and it is one of these stories where with each hour we get more. Two stories. The investigation of what happened there. The investigation that pete is undertaking with respect to the shooter and then this town that is a few hundred people strong. Thats it. Reporter thats it. 200 members of that church. And it is literally, its the church thats behind us. The gas station where the gunman was first seen. To the right, post afs, to the left a tightknit community, neighbors dont lock their doors at night. You think about it, ali. Weve said it, but worth saying again. 500 to 600 people thinking about 26 dead. 7 of the population decimated in the blink of an i after the shooting. Many families dealing with loss. Families that have Family Members clinging to life in nearby hospitals. 20 injured we know and then the case of the churchs pastor and his wife. Frank and sheri palmaroy were not in town when the shooting happened. You can tell from folks here and when they first came around the scene around 11 00 and during the presser, they are the heart of community. They lost their 14yearold daughter, was at the church service, annabel, they called bell. I want to play what the loss of his daughter means to him and to this community. Im telling everybody, you lean in to what you dont understand. You lean into the lord. And i so i submit this to everyone. My familys here. You guys there, whatever life brings to you, lean on the lord rather than your own understanding. I dont understand. But i know my god does. Thats where ill leave that. Reporter at the same time, ali, weve been hearing these stories of devastation, but also of resilience. We know victims like 5yearold ryland ward. 5 years old. According to a Family Member he was shot five times. Taken to a nearby hospital, stable and out of surgery. And as resilience as this town grapples becoming the scene of a largest scene of a shooting at a worship service. This young boy went to san antonio 25 miles away. The valero gas station, a woman, teri, runs the restaurant, concessions. Saying because they dont have a full list of names of everybody killed when customers walk through the door, she has relief to know that theyre not dead. There are people who dont know whos died. Reporter ali, even the investigation side of this. I spoke to the Wilson County sheriff, saying Texas Rangers are taking the lead. They dont have a big structure and numbers to take this on. We should tell people, we use terms about these town where is people dont lock their doors. But this is really incredible. Everybody you see on this corner, 98 of the people here are journalists. We are all here. The town and the community has been very welcoming of the sort of coverage theyve been getting, but reporter very gracious. And very gracious, but this is a tiny, tiny town. They dont know how to conceive of this tragedy. A woman i spoke to, lived here 63 years said, they never had anything close to this. Remembers barroom fights. Thats as close as they get to this sort of thing. Reporter the pastor and his wife here for 15 years. Think about the roots theyve really built here and having to deal with the loss of their daughter and with the recovery. Spiritually of this community. Ted cruz is speaking just over there. Lets listen in. Food and water and supplies. Just spontaneously saying, how can we help . We have people who have given, to cover the costs of the funerals. We have the baptist mens group that has given to cover the cost of repairing and rebuilding the church. And in the face of unspeakable evil, were seeing texas coming together. Were seeing texans helps texans, leaning on each other, and i will tell you the men and women of this community, youre not alone. You are being lifted up by the prayers of literally millions of texans, millions of americans, millions of people across the planet. The kind of evil that would look at a small child and callously murder that child. Thats an evil none of us hope ever to see. And yet i want to come way word of hope for this community that we will come through it and well come through it leaning on each other. I will tell you much like in the wake of hurricane harvey, where texas saw death and devastation and loss, we also saw inspirational unity and we saw and are seeing the church stepping forward and caring for our brothers and sisters. Thats what we have done before. Its what we are doing now, and its what we will do going forward. With that, im happy to answer a couple questions. Reporter how would you [ inaudible ] you know, there arent words that can make this pain go away. The pain of a parent losing a child is unspeakable. My understanding is that this depraved madman had worshipped at this church before. Weve seen this before. Evil there is a peculiar evil that can worship god, can pray with people and then come back and murder those very same people. I can tell you as i visited with the pastor, i shared something my father has pointed out before. Which is that in psalms 23, it tells us, yea though i go through the valley of death i will fear no evil, and the word of encouragement i tried to share is i think the most powerful word in that entire verse is the word through. Through the valley of death. This is a moment of horror, of grief, of agony, and yet with gods grace and with our coming together, we will make it through the valley and to the other side, but this is a community that is going to need prayer. Its going to need help. Its going to need support, and we are seeing texans come together. Were seeing americans come together to provide that support. Reporter gun control now, sir . It is an unfortunate thing that the immediate place the media goes after any tragedy, after any murder is politicizing it. We dont need politics right now. You know, i would note in new york we saw a terror attack just this week with a truck. Evil is evil is evil. And will use the weaponry available. One of the most inspirational aspects in the face of this horror was that an ordinary citizen stepped forward to engage the gunman. Heard about what was happening and just in the moments that it transpired, went got his own rifle and engaged the gunman in an active gunfire. Ive toured the crime scene just a few minutes ago. Saw where that private citizen hid behind a car and took incoming shots from the gunman behind him, and because of that individuals bravery, shot the gunman. And as a result, stopped this murder spree. I asked multiple Law Enforcement agents what would have happened had this private citizen not stepped forward to engage and to a person every Law Enforcement person i talked to said the death toll could have been much, much higher. That the reason this depraved gunman finally gave up, got in the car and fled, and didnt murder more, is precisely because one individual demonstrated bravery and courage. We need to be celebrating that bravery and courage. Celebrating the compassion and love and unity evil tragically will always be with us but so will good. Reporter and you know [ inaudible ]. I have not. Reporter [ inaudible ]. We need to change the gun laws now . It is predictable. There is a reason why there is public distrust of the media. Because the immediate focus is on a political agenda of gun control. I can say this. The private citizen who used his own rifle saved lives today. This individual was a sick, deranged murderer. And evil reporter [ inaudible ]. I support of right of individuals to defend themselves. Its a fundamental right that texans understand, to defend yourself and your family. Reporter a fine line between and this community right now is not looking to be drawn into the political circus of the National Media, debating the same issues that the National Media loves to debate. What this Community Needs and wants senator ted cruz of texas behind me taking questions from reporters after meeting with the pastor just in front of the church. I want to go to dr. Brian, the trauma medical director of University Hospital in san antonio where many of the victims, those most serious, have been getting treatment. Doctor, thanks for being with us. Can you give us an update on those still in Critical Condition . So actually the the victims of this event were actually disbursed between two Trauma Centers here in san antonio. About half of the victims went to san antonio military medical center. They received eight and they operated on four. And of those four, four remain in Critical Condition. Here at University Hospital, because we are also a pediatric level one trauma center, we received nine patients, operated on four. We unfortunately lost one of the children in the operating room. And we still have two very critical children, and one adult, and the rest of the patients remain admitted for a number of less severe injuries. Doctor, you got a program called stop the bleed. What is that about . So stop the bleed is really, its a National Initiative that came out of the, out of the white house a couple years ago. It was really the genesis of that program came out of the the, the mass shooting in connecticut at the elementary school. And essentially as has been mentioned by Law Enforcement and some of the ems providers along these series of interviews is they cant be everywhere at the same time. As were going through our daily lives, the first people to respond to any event who there may be seriously injured are going be to bystanders. Potentially our loved ones, potentially friends, potentially even strangers. So this stop the bleed is a National Initiative to teach really 300 million americans how to do basic hemorrhage control, really, to increase that window of survival to get patients that are severely injured, again, increase that window of survival to make it to a hospital. All right. Well, i know a lot of people are alive because of the work that youve done there. Thank you for joining us, a doctor of trauma, surgery in san antonio. The Vice President tweeted moments ago. He says, karen and i will travel to Sutherland Springs on wednesday to meet with families of the fallen, injured and Law Enforcement. We are wei wiith you, texas. There are a number of helicopters flying over the scene at the moment senator ted cruz still across the road talking to some reporters and we are gathering more information now on the mass shooting at the First Baptist churn. Stay tuned throughout the our. Well bring you the latest developments from Sutherland Springs, and special counsel mueller has enough evidence to bring charges against Michael Flynn and his son. Stay with us. Youre watching msnbc. I cant wait for her to have that College Experience that i had. The classes, the friends, the independence. And since we planned for it, that student debt is the one experience, im glad shell miss when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. Ameriprise tais really quite simple. Est it comes in the mail, you pull out the tube and you spit in it, which is something southern girls are taught youre not supposed to do. You seal it and send it back and then you wait for your results. Its that simple. Your bbut as you get older,ing. It naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. Thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. The secret is an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. All right. Im going to use this mike a few minutes because of a helicopter hovering over the church making it quite loud. President trumps former Campaign ChairmanPaul Manafort and Campaign Official rick gates are still under house arrest. We could learn in the next couple days whether manafort and gates will be allowed to travel to their other homes in the United States. They have homes in florida, new york city. But the judge says she will not allow any international travel. Last week the former trump Campaign Officials pleaded not guilty to a 12count indictment from special counsel Robert Muellers russia investigation. The indictments center on their lobbying work from before manafort joined the trump campaign. Msnbcs Garrett Haake was at the courthouse earlier today and joins me with the latest. Garrett what is with the repeated Court Appearances first of all and what came of it . Reporter ali, this is about the defense trying to get manafort and gates off of home arrest and be able to travel. The defense says, to be able to continue to dot their work. Manafort, defense says, has clients in new york. Work in florida. He needs to be able to travel to do his job. Gates, likewise, a home in richmond. Children in the area. His defense team would like him to go to things like his kids soccer games without wearing that gps monitor and be under court supervision. The prosecution actually seemed open to these changes, if and only if and when, they can get a firmer accounting of just what these mens assets are. Where is their money . What is it booked in . Real estate, is it cash . Whether they can get enough security, enough essentially real estate assets and other things put up as collateral theyre sure both manafort and gates will come back to trial. Other than this restriction that everyone agreed to the judge and prosecution, there would be no travel abroad. Passports remain forfeited. Seems likely manafort and gates to have the travel restrictions lifted or loosened within the next couple days. After both sets of lawyers get sort of a next round of paperwork done, ali. This is an act of negotiation you just about terms of the bail basically . Reporter right. In this case. The judge said the next hearing for december 11th, a few weeks away. At that point well see a little more negotiations about the actual evidence. The judge said that the prosecution and defense teams had been engaged in negotiations and should continue to about discovery. Each side sharing what they have. I think by december well start to hear from the defense saying certainly pieces of evidence theyd like to see excluded. Certain things thrown out as we move towards what sounds like now might be a late spring trial for these two men. Garrett, thanks. Garrett haake at capitol hill. Nbc is learns by the way from multiple sources Robert Mueller has enough evidence to file charges in the investigation of Michael Flynn and his son, Michael Flynn jr. The senior flynn was fired just 24 days after becoming White House National security adviser. Now three sources familiar with the investigation say that investigators are talking to multiple witnesses to find out more about flynns lobbying work including possible Money Laundering or lying to federal agents about overseas contacts. The lawyers from both flynns declined to comment to nbc news and muellers spokesman has no comment. President trumps lawyer ty cobb says the white house continues to fully swau y cooperate with special counsel regarding indictments. And den delanian, whats the latest on this . Reporter ali, the legal noose around the flynns is tightening. As you said, either man could be charged. Its also possible that we wont see charges, because one or more of them is cooperating. Whats also new in our reporting, ali, that in addition to examining mike flynn sr. s contact with russians, special counsel mueller is looking at lobbying on behalf of the turkish government and whether he was offered millions of dollars to orchestrate the extradition of a turkish dissident, a cleric living in the United States, an opponent of the turkish government and flynns activities while National Security adviser, ali. All right. Ken. Why if theyve got this what happens next . The question i was going to ask, a question everybody asked. Why theyve got information, we know there is information, do we not see anything happening . I assume dotting is, crossing ts and when they have enough for indictment or charge well see it . Reporter could be that. Could be theyre continuing to investigate certain aspects of this. We were told they planned to interview witnesses this week and also that theyre in negotiations for a plea. To the extent mike flynns son is in legal jeopardy puts enormous pressure on him to cooperate. Ali, going forward, if mike flynn does cooperate, you can be sheer robt Robert Mueller will ask whether he was coordinating with donald trump when meeting with the Russian Ambassador discussing sanctions during the transition. A very important question in this investigation, ali. So while the Mueller Investigation doesnt leak a lot, it drops a lot of hints who theyre investigating. The thinking there that if you know you are likely under investigation, or facing a possible indictment and you have anything to offer up, now would be a good time to do it. Exactly. Mike flynns lawyer once said he has a story tomueller would lik hear that story. Thanks, ken. Nbc intelligence and National Security reporter ken delanian. Up next, a xlocloser look a the investigation in Sutherland Springs, texas. Piecing together a profile of the gunman including a violent part and history of disturbing behavior and troubled time in the military ending in a bad misconduct discharge. What exactly is that and should it have prevented him from purchasing a gun. Our hearts are broken this morning. Last night 26 people were kil d killed, and 20 injured at the First Baptist church in sutherland, texas. The pastor and his wife lost their 14yearold daughter. In total, over a dozen children were lost yesterday as they prayed in the pews. The loss is as tragic as it is unimaginable. I would ask us a all to remember them in prayer. A rm like, a dagger . A tiny sword . Bread. Breadstick . A matchstick a lamppost coin slot no . Uhhh. 10 seconds. A stick a Walking Stick eiffel tower, Mount Kilimanjaro ding time sorry, its a tandem bicycle. What . What . as long as sloths are slow, you can count on geico saving folks money. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. avo but you also have a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. Noninsulin victoza® lowers a1c, and now reduces cardiovascular risk. Victoza® lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill. avo and for people with type 2 diabetes treating cardiovascular disease, victoza® is now approved to lower the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. And while it isnt for weight loss, victoza® may help you lose some weight. avo victoza® is not for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. 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Deadliest shooting in the States History continues. Wa we know so far about the suspect. Devin patrick kelly. 26 from about an hour outside of Sutherland Springs, texas. A former member of the air force. Kelly was courtmartialed in 2012 on accounts of Domestic Abuse against his then wife and a child. He was ultimately discharged for bad conduct. Ex girl friends describe disturbing behavior including stalking and violence. Licensed to work as a private Security Guard and as of now it does not appear kelly will ties to terrorist groups. For the latest im joined by nbcs Stephanie Gosk on the phone. Stephanie, you had a conversation with one of his exgirlfriends . Reporter yeah. You know, ali, after these shootings, we talk about these shooters and always talk about, was there some sign . Something that could have given people indication he was capable of this, if not planning it, and generally the answer is, no. Although what weve uncovered here in his past is certainly indicative of someone who is at the very least troubled. No one weve spoken to or nothing weve learned is any indication he would do what he has done. Having said that, we did talk to a couple of his exgirlfriends who described some behavior concerning. One was witney adcox. She met him thanksgiving time about nine years ago. Was only 13 years old. He was 18. They dated, she told us, four months. He would pick her up. Take her to the mall. She was 13, thought he was very cute. Looks back at the age difference and is troubled by that. Listen to what she tells us after she broke up with him. There was one day, though, that he just would not stop calling me. He just kept on calling me and calling backtoback on private numbers, and at that point i called the cops. You know. To place harassment on him. It made me nervous. He knows where i live. So it was kind of, whats he going to do . Is he going to show up . Or whats he going to do . Reporter now, the police never charged him with any crime. What she told us, they couldnt find any record of him living in the area. So its a bit unclear what happened when she reported that, but what she did tell us was that she had to change her cell phone three times, because he kept on learning her cell phone number and kept on calling her, and these communications occurred all the way up until about six months ago she even received a facebook message from him. Ali . All right. Stephanie, were going to continue it look into who he is, and what led up to this. Stephanie gosk in texas, not far from here. Kelly was discharged in the air force in 2014 for bad behavior. Many questions remain about this discharge and whether it should have prevented him from buying guns. The atf special agent in charge says thats part of the investigation. I will tell you right now in general if an individual has a dishonorable discharge from the military, they would be prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms. In this specific investigation we are early in the investigation. We do not have all the documentation yet. So until we can get all of the documentation to determine exactly what his discharge was and exactly what his conviction in the military, we will not have a determination on whether this individual was prohibited from possessing or purchasing firearms. Okay. There are a number of factors here. He had a dishonorable discharge. Was bet go for bad conduct and found responsible for assault to his wife and a child. To make sense of all of that, and how it should have affected his ability to get a weapon, nbcs hans nichols joins me from the pentagon. What do we know about this . Reporter the pentagon and specifically the air force still isnt saying just under what sort of circumstances and what they transmitted to local authorities. Did they transmit, make it clear that this individual had been courtmartialed under a general courtmartial, implying he was close to being a fallon and thats how that translated. The other factor they simply dont have an answer, whether or not there was assault against a child therefore being Domestic Violence triggering a lautenberg, prohibits anyone convicted of domestic Violent Crime of obtaining a firearm. Were not getting answers from the air force on this. They know theyre looking into it. Theyre trying to figure out the paperwork. Its a key question. Was this salient information transferred to appropriate authorities . Ened so far, ali, no firm answers from the air force. Ali . So, hans, we know that this if this had taken place in the civilian Justice System, he would have been in a system that would have prevented him from getting a weapon. I guess the question is, is this just a matter of the military maybe not having sent that information over . Or do we actually know whether these sorts of convictions under a courtmartial tlelead to the e consequences as in the civilian Justice System . Reporter it varies state by state. Theyre trying to ascertain at the air force, was this information transferred to the relevant authority. On the lautenberg side of this, the idea he was convicted of a crime of Domestic Violence is something that should be transmitted to something called the Texas Crime Information Center as well as the National Crime information center. That would be the right way to do it. They still cant tell us at the air force whether or not these transfers were made and what Administrative Changes potentially they consider to make sure they make this smoothly. All right. Hans, thanks very much. Hans nichols at the pentagon for us. For more on all of this im joined by david chipman, former special agent at the atf and former policy adviser for americans for responsible solutions as well as cliff van sent, former fbi profiler and msnbc contributor and author of facing down evil thanks to you both. David, start with you. Based on what you just heard from hans, were just trying to figure out that given the courtmartial he faced for the very serious things that he was found responsible for doing, should this, this man have been able to get a gun . Well, actually, i was thinking about your prior, Pete Williams testimony. Where he said that the person had actually been convicted of fracturing someones skull. And to me, i think we should all agree that if the government knows that someone has fractured a childs skull, and abused his wife, he should be prohibited from possessing a gun or buying a gun. So clearly, thats what we need to focus on. Its the most relevant information weve received, and how we define it is up to our legislators, who apparently earlier just want us to pray about this issue. This is something we can never allow to happen again, but to do that we have to, you know, vow we will never do, you know, we will have to you know, take action legislatively to make sure it doesnt happen. Right. Exactly. For it never to happen again we actually have to identify and do something about it. You know, clint, since you and i talked a few hours ago, a lot of people on social media saying, why are you spending so much time on who this guy is as opposed to the victims . Part is to understand who commits these crimes. Lets talk about what we know since we last talked. That a conviction was for Domestic Abuse, and for likely fracturing an infants skull. That elevates this to a whole other level of concern. Yes. You know, the challenge is, of course, we keep looking at the military discharge. He received a bad conduct discharge, were told. Thats one level above a dishonorable discharge. A bad conduct discharge alone doesnt preclude someone from purchasing or buying a weapon, even though the action, he spent a year in military prison, and as you say, for what he was charged, that alone should challenge him, but this guy was able to buy a gun every year for the past three or four years. Last year, he bought one of 27 million 500,000 guns in the United States. I think the challenge is for atf, the fbi and every other agency to take computerized records of someone with Mental Health challenges, which this guy has had since grade school, of convictions, and of firearm purchases, and somehow lace these together and, of course, you know, there are going to be gun right groups that are going to go nuts when you say that, but that has to be part of what were looking at. The president said it was Mental Health. Yes, it was part Mental Health. It was part being able to buy an assault rifle. It was part being able to have 30round magazines, and it was part a lot of people knew this guy had challenges, and yet there was nobody raising their hand, and if they had, the police might have said, yeah. We see this guys got problems. Well go out and talk to him, and he says, oh, yeah. He says, yeah, i was convicted once, but im a good guy now. If the police didnt have anything to hang their hat on, a charge, they would have had to cut this guy free. And thats our challenge. Until we can lace all of those factors together, were going to have terrible copycats like this guy, who was one of over 60 mass shooters in the United States this year who has killed over one or more people in a mass shooting. So, david, let me ask you. Based on what you just heard from clint, even if we have all of this information. If people raised their hand and say, hey, this guys up nono go good and has a record. In this country without a lot of rules about getting a gun works it actually stop people . Thats what seems to be the fear. Once you have the benefit of time and a Rearview Mirror and look at what actually went wrong, you can say, maybe that one shouldnt have had a gun but we never seem to be able to do that on the front end. Ali, there are things we can do and thats what we have to focus on now. First and foremost, we have to make sure that the real criminal records of people are in the system. Once thats done, we need to make certain that there is no way that you can purchase a gun in america without passing that background check system. Right now in texas, if you want to go on to the internet on a Company Called armslist. Com, you can buy assault weapons just like the one used in the church from a private individual outside any government regulation or any background check. That is reckless. Its irresponsible. And youre right. We will continue to have these acts of violence if we do not have reasonable laws that prevent people who should not have guns from getting them in the first place. And so we cannot prevent the shooting that just happened. What we may be able to do is prevent the next one, and the fact that you can still go and buy those guns today without a background check is reckless. Yep. Yeah. And thats why it is we continue to dig into this and to find out where we went wrong. David, thanks very much. David chipman, former special agent at the atf. Clint van zandt, former fbi profiler and author of facing down evil. Thanks to you both. I want to turn to nbcs gabe gutierrez, with me working the story for the last many, many hours. Reporter talking about the victims and the story emerging of this family, the holcombe family. Eight members of the same extended family, and its just devastating for this community. Excuse me. People havent been following it. Eight members of the same family killed in that church . Three generations. Reporter exactly right. The victims range from 18 months to 77 years olds. Up to 14 children. Think about that. 26 dead, 14 children. The holcombe family, eight members of the same extended family. Joe holcombe, he heard about this yesterday. He wasnt at the church, but he just lost three generations. Three generations of a single family. And his son brian, he was actually scheduled to be the fillin pastor. Going up to preach at this church when the shots rang out. Not only was he killed, his wife killed, other members of the family killed. The youngest, 18 months old. Noah. And it, this family just its unthinkable for them. We spoke with a close friend of the family. Known them for 30 years. This is what she had to say. They were a family like no other, because brien and carla would give the shirt off their back if you needed it. They were always helping people. They were always helping me. We had so much fun together. They knew the importance of loving your neighbor. Reporter and ali, something you heard over and over again. Over and over again. Reporter willing to help. And debbie told us that brian was willing to donate, one of the buildings he used to rent a Small Business, actually planning to donate that to a nearby church, in a neighboring town. So this is something thats still sinking in for this community. Small down. Several hundred people. Neighborly. People dont lock their doors. Again, those not from places like that think that is when you meet the people and see who they are, that valero gas station, that started yesterday, inside theres a little canteen a woman who runs it. The woman who made my breakfast for me this morning, is the very woman who saw it all happen yesterday, knows these people and says every time she she seee of her customers. Not knowing the names of those killed, she knows theyre okay. Reporter they put it to their faith. I spoke with the greatgrandfather, seemed almost at peace. Incredible. Theyre still in shock. Seemed at peace and said he preferred not to go on camera. Said theyre going through a hard time but said he will see his son again. That his that belief, and that faith community. Reporter exactly. Its incredible to speak with him and to speak with the people that knew this family, that vigil we were at last night, candlelight vigil. Everyone seemed to know everyone else, and its not just the holcombe family. Other families are here. The 14yearold daughter of the actual pastor that was out of town. They spoke earlier today. Lean in to god, when you dont know whats going to happen. Remarkable how this community is leaning on its faith it try to get through this, because its unthinkable to have to deal with. What did we say . About 7 of the that church. Coming up, more on the vigil that gabe just mentioned. Well show you how the community is mourning the lives taken in a matter of seconds. Stay with us. A morning latte, some strategically placed needles, unicorns and sore muscles. With the help of two very special pintsized helpers, i finally took some time out of my busy schedule to get into the Small Business saturday spirit and try some new businesses in my own brooklyn neighborhood. For more, watch your business weekend mornings at 7 30 on msnbc. Every day, on every street, in every town, across america. Small businesses show their love to you. 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Get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. The most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. If its severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. Other side effects include gas, stomacharea pain and swelling. Ask your doctor if 90 days of linzess may be right for you. Accused of obstructing justice to theat the fbinuclear war, and of violating the constitution by taking money from foreign governments and threatening to shut down news organizations that report the truth. If that isnt a case for impeaching and removing a dangerous president , then what has our government become . Im tom steyer, and like you, im a citizen who knows its up to us to do something. Its why im funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. A Republican Congress once impeached a president for far less. Yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger whos mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. And they do nothing. Join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing whats political and start doing whats right. Our country depends on it. I have sadly covered too many of the Mass Shootings in the last few years. But for a Small Community mourning, there is an unusually large show of solidarity and support for the victims in the mass shooting over there at the First Baptist church. Joining me now here at the scene of the attack is tony, an Investigative Reporter for the Austin American statesman. Very close to austin. And austin and san antonio are metro, urban areas. But this is smalltown texas and smalltown america. The people knew each other. Something like 200 people are members of that church. Only 600 people who live in this town. Thats right. Its a Small Community. The church where this happened really was the hub of social activity as churches and n small communities like this one tend to be. I talked to people over the past couple of days who have not only gone to church for many years, in some cases decades but have spent their lives together. They saw each other get married in that church, their kids get baptized in that church. To have Something Like this happen here is not only shocking but, as you can imagine, people are just grief stricken. When we see that three generations of the holcombe family lost their lives. Eight people in one family, thats not unusual that three generations of family would be at Church Together in a town like this. Absolutely not. Not only were they, obviously, a church on a sunday morning but they go to church on wednesday nights and sunday nights and sometimes and social activities. And social activities in between. Just a couple of days ago before this happened, they were actually hosting a fall festival at that church to welcome in the turn of the season here, which is often a very welcoming thing to happen in south texas. But, yeah, just, obviously, a lot of grief and a lot of emotion heres from people weve been talking to. We spoke to a woman named delia wilson. Shes lived here 83 years. She was at a Different Church on sunday when her daughter got a text there had been a shooting and multiple people injured. Her instinct was, where would there be multiple people in Sutherland Springs . Everybody is at church. And the hardest part for her, i spoke to her as you mentioned earlier this morning. The hardest part for her and so many other people is that the authorities, as of yet, are still in the process of positively identifying everyone and making sure their next of kin is properly and formally notified. Everybody doesnt know who has died. Everybody doesnt know. So you walk into the few stores that are here and you can actually hear people trading names and Trading Information and trying to confirm once and for all whether or not their friends, their loves ones are among the living or among the dead. That would happen in other places but when there are only a few hundred people who live in this place and 26 are dead, and you dont know who they are, they could be someone you know. As ive been telling people, terry who runs the concession at the gas station says every time she sees a familiar face she breathes a sigh of relief knowing theyre not dead. Whether or not you knew them personally or not it almost doesnt matter. It almost doesnt matter because you knew someone who knew them or were Family Members with them. Thank you for your coverage of this and for joining us. All right. Welcome back near Sutherland Springs where behind me in this small texas town, 26 people were gunned down and 20 others hurt while worshiping at the First Baptist church. This is the deadliest mass shooting in texas history. I was in connecticut when i got the call at 2 00 in the afternoon yesterday telling me that i needed to get to texas as soon as possible. One long flight and a 90minute drive later, i got here. People here could have easily shut us, the reporters out, during this painful time. Ive met with nothing but warm, kind and resilient folks. Theyre much like the resdents in the downtownlecountless comm that have dealt with Mass Shootings. 1788 days ago since the sandy hook shooting, this country has endured 15 Mass Shootings. Santa monica, california, Washington Navy yard, ft. Hood, uc santa barbara, marysvillepilchuck high school in washington state. Mother emmanuel ame church, a military recruiting station in chattanooga, tennessee. Um quacommunity college, planned parenthood in colorado springs, san bern duno, pulse nightclub, dallas, tex aburnett chapel. The route 91 festival in las vegas and most recently what has happened here. A total of 210 lives lost due to senseless gun violence. As this community heals, the cameras and reporters will leave one by one. But i want this community as well as those other communities across the country to know that we will not forget you. 26 people, including an 18monthold child took their last breath yesterday in Sutherland Springs but the sense of community lives on. Just ask Restaurant Owner terry smith. Were a very good community. And everybody here accepts everybody, whether youre rich or poor, young, old. Everybody comes through. And everybody is here. And we would like to let the world know that there are good communities. There are good people. And if we all come and stay united, you know, we can conquer things like this. Hi, everyone. Its 4 00 in new york. Today, the small Texas Community of Sutherland Springs becomes the latest to experience the horror and grief of a mass shooting. The victims include an 18monthold baby and up to half of the 26 who lost their lives are children. 20 more were injured in the shooting that took place at the First Baptist church about 30 miles from san antonio. The gunman, 26yearold devin kell kelley. They believe it was a domestic situation. Kelley was found dead in his getaway vehicle. Before we talk about the president s response to the shooting weve asked ali velshi to stay on with us. Hes been on the story all day long. I watched you live at 9 00 a. M. Interview the eyewitness that you just ended your 3 00 p. M. Broadcast with. Ive been watching you all day. You just gave me chills and moved me to tears by taking through all the Mass Shootings. And i wanted to start with the investigation. Since youre often the first person this network dispatches, i want to ask you about this town specifically and some of what youve experienced and what youve heard from them there today. I think there