Constitution and to the rule of law and the mission of the fbi. If the president asked you to do something unlawful or unethical, what do you say . First i would try to talk him out of it, and if that failed i would resign. You dont think director comey is a nut job, right . Thats never been my experience. Do you consider this endeavor a witch hunt . I do not consider director muller to be on a witch hunt. So the president s pick to lead the fbi saying the russia probe is not a witch hunt, although just hours earlier President Trump tweeted and said, it is indeed a witch hunt. This is from todays white house briefing. Why he calls it a witch hunt . Because the president knows very specifically any action or inaction that hes taken, and so i think thats pretty clear. Sarah Huckabee Sanders also saying the president has spoken with his son in the last few days and clearly, his tv interview he watched last night because he also tweeted, my son donald did a good job. He was open, transparent and innocent. But remember his initial statement on that meeting . Never mentioned russia, and the New York Times reports that the president signed off on that statement, which, of course, had to be revised or updated four times as new information comes out. Could there be even more coming . Well, heres donald trump jr. On that. Im more than happy to be transparent about it and im more than happy to cooperate with everyone. So as far as you know, as far as this incident is concerned this is all of it. This is everything. This is everything. Did you ever meet with any other person from russia that you know . I dont even know. I probably met with other people from russia. In the campaign not in the context of an actual formalized meeting or anything like that, because why would i . With me new york congressman rakeem jeffreys who is with us. George will is Pulitzer Prize winning columnist nor the Washington Post and a political analyst. So much to get to, but this is defense we have heard from some republicans. You have to put the don jr. Meeting into context. They were getting oped research, politics is cut throat, it happens all the time. Is there any there there in these emails . Well, absolutely. The context is 17 different intelligence agencies concluded that russia interfered with our election for the purpose of helping to elect donald trump. But as you well know, the trumps dont buy that. Well, and theyre the only ones in town or throughout the country perhaps that dont buy the fact that the Intelligence Community in the United States unanimously concluded russia interfered with our election in very specific ways in order to help donald trump elected. Thats a settled question for any reasonable person in this town or throughout the country. So your implication is any reasonable person would not take a meeting with russians . No reasonable person should take a meeting with russia for a variety of reasons, including if youre involved in the context of a campaign it is a crime to solicit or receive assistance or in any way collude with a foreign power anywhere throughout the world, but particularly Vladimir Putins treacherous dictatorship and his russian empire. That makes no sense. If not logical that donald trump jr. Would proceed with that meeting for any other reason than what should be obvious to almost everyone, which is perhaps its indicative of a mindset that was designed to work with the russians to receive information that could help donald trump seize the presidency and undermine Hillary Clintons chances of being elected. Im sure you heard him last night. He said back then you have to put it into context of the russia thing wasnt a big deal at the time, but senator Chuck Grassley said this afternoon his committee is working on getting donald jr. To testify. Do you think he will and what would you want to ask him . Well, i think he will perhaps testify at some point, although weve heard a lot of protestations of a willingness to be cooperative by all of these folks who are involved, Paul Manafort, roger stone, Michael Flynn for instance, Jeff Sessions has suggested that theyre going to be cooperative in different ways and different places. We havent necessarily seen it. Now, the Intelligence Committee i think is going to have to proceed with its work on the house side and on the senate side. Im hopeful that that will be done in an open and transparent way because the American People deserve answers. It is clear that exhibit a right now in terms of this quest for trying to figure out what happened are the emails between donald trump jr. And these russian operatives who may have been part of an effort to steal this election away from Hillary Clinton and attack our democracy. So, george will, as you look at the emails and then you heard what donald trump jr. Had to say last night, where in your mind does this fit into this investigation . Well, there are lots of threads here that mr. Muller and his investigators are going to tug on. What we know so far is that donald trump jr. Was a novice in politics, and this is in a way his fathers defense and others defense of him, is that he did not know or understand what well call the common law of american politics, that theres certain habits, mores, customs, dispositions you acquire by being in politics for a while. The whole trump enterprise as a campaign and as a Family Campaign was to say, look, were indifferent to, ignorant of, sometimes hostile to these habits, mores, customs and dispositions that make politics work, the sort of thing someone more familiar with our politics would know going in would make him wary of a meeting with the russians, a representative that is, of a nation that is a hostile power towards the United States. So lets say that you even give him a pass on meeting with someone who was a hostile power, an enemy of the United States. Does it pass the smell test for you, george, having been around so many campaigns, so many people in power that none of the three people inside that room seem to have remembered that that meeting took place . Or that it wasnt about adoptions, that sort of thing. No, this does not pass the smell test. Whether or not this rises to satisfy the Legal Standard of collusion i doubt, and whether or not this constitutes a contribution from a foreign power to a campaign under the normal meaning of the word contribution, i doubt that also, but i also doubt that that doesnt really matter. What matters here is the blatant indifference to or ignorance of, again, the simple common sense of american politics, but this is what you get when you get what the American People seem to have voted for in 2016, which is someone who just doesnt care about that sort of thing and who is elected to be an outsider and brings with him and through his family an outsiders lack of understanding of our politics. Remember, this is a family business, the trump enterprise, both in politics and in business. He gets up from the table at the g20 meeting and his daughter wanders over and sits down at the table. Inappropriate . Grossly. But, again, try to explain that to the family business. Well, in an interview today the president actually tried to claim that Vladimir Putin wanted Hillary Clinton, would have preferred Hillary Clinton in the white house over him. Here is what he said. Well, he wants whats good for russia. Yeah. And i want whats good for the United States. If hillary had won, our military would be decimated, our energy would be much more expensive. Thats what putin doesnt like about me and thats why i say, why would he want me . So when i keep hearing about he would have rather had trump, i think probably not. So, congressman, repeatedly denied collusion, anything like collusion, repeatedly said that his son didnt do anything wrong, but he is making the argument that they would have rather had hillary anyway. What do you make of that . I mean that argument is a complete joke. Everybody understands that Vladimir Putin had it in for Hillary Clinton based on tension that existed during the time in which she was the secretary of state. The most important question i think that weve got to ask in this whole sordid affair is why were all of the president s men, Paul Manafort, the campaign chairman, Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, michael cohen, his personal attorney, carter page, his Foreign Policy advisor, donald trump, his son, his soninlaw Jared Kushner, roger stone, his advisor why were all of the president s men meeting with russian spies during the same time they were attacking our democracy . Im guessing your double use of that phrase, all of the president s men, was not accidental. So much more we could talk about. Congressman jeffries, george wim. Thank you both. Thank you. All is leading to reports of white house chaos. According to the associated press, the president has been enraged in recent days, obsessed with the Media Coverage of his sons meeting with the russian lawyer. Trump writing on twitter that the white house is functioning perfectly and i have little time for watching tv. Joining me White House Reporter for the associated press, jonathan la mere who wrote that story. What are you hearing . How bad is it . This has become a depressingly familiar ritual for senior west wing aides. They feel they string together a few good news cycles they thought the g20 was good for them. They felt he held his ground, they were pleased with his speech in poland and on air force one they have to start grappling with the revelation about don jr. , the meeting with the russian lawyer and the emails. Is there any sense you got this is different for them, that any of the other strings of crises theyve had . Certainly those in the white house think so. They understand this is more serious. First of all, it is the president s own flesh and blood involved, that it is his son and that couldnt lead to a president who often is unpredictable, to react in extreme ways. Second of all, like you read these emails. He says, don jr. Says, id love it if there were incriminating damaging information about Hillary Clinton presented to him from a russian official. That is for even the most ardent trump loyalist, that at least looks bad. So whatever the upshot of it is politically, there is an absolute effect that weve seen that it has had in the past when all of this happens, and not to do anything but give props to the New York Times for their amazing reporting, clearly somebody in there is leaking this stuff and clearly there are people in there who dont like each other. Is that where this is coming from . Thats part of it. That chaos that already existed . Sure, thats part of it. I mean there have been leaks in this Administration Since day one, and the president has, of course, raged about them repeatedly. Damy minus 150. Exactly right. Who is at risk here . When they look at this sort of lay of the land, there are reports, for example, that ivanka and jared and the first lady are pushing for Reince Priebus to get the heaveho. Right. The American People have not seen the president since saturday, since he got back from europe, and they wont see him again until he leaves for europe again later today. But we know privately hes very upset, despite his protest on twitter today. He is watching a lot of the coverage. He is talking to outside confidantes as to what he should do. The chief of staff certainly is vulnerable. He has been, frankly, since day one. At the same time we dont think any changes are imminent. It seems to me it is kind of a catch22 do you think, because on one hand clearly theres problems within the white house, maybe a change is needed. But if you make a change in the middle of what is perceived as a crisis, it makes you look like youre in the middle of a crisis, which as we know donald trump doesnt like to in any way show weakness. Right. And theyre also afraid of what it would look like for a high profile dismissal like that in the midst of this investigation. Thats not something they want to look at. That would be a red flag programs for the probe. Jonathan la mere, great story for the associated press. Thank you. Good to see you again. Thank you. Breaking news ahead. President trump also talking about his closed door meeting with Vladimir Putin including how long he spent talking about election meddling. And were learning more about the russian lawyer at the center of the secret trump tower meeting, who she knows, who she works for, and what she really wanted. Plus, a focus turns to trumps soninlaw Jared Kushner, three meetings with russians, no disclosures initially. Whats up with that and why does he still have a security clearance . That can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. Scholls orthotics clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. So keep on climbing, sarah. Youre killing it. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. Binders, done. Supercool notebooks, done. Thats mom taking care of business. But who takes care of mom . Office depot office max. This week, get this ream of paper for just one cent after rewards. Taking care of business. Introducing the easiest way to get gillette blades noo text blades to gillette on demand text to reorder blades with gillette on demand. And get 3 off your first order. For the first time were hearing tonight from President Trump himself about his meeting with Vladimir Putin. The president telling reuters he spent the first 20 or 25 minutes of his more than twohour meeting on election meddling. The president saying, i said did you do it, and he said no, i did not, absolutely not. I then asked him a second time in a totally different way. He said, absolutely not. That news as we learn new details about the russian lawyer who met with donald trump jr. Last summer. The New York Times reporting that that tall ya veselnitskaya is seen as a fear some moscow insider, the goto lawyer for the government, among her clients the family of a high level official formerly minister of transportation of the moscow region, now Vice President of a stateowned railroad monopoly. In an exclusive nbc interview she denies that the kremlin was behind her meeting with trump jr. Donald trump jr. Is told that they want to schedule a meeting with him and the russian government attorney who is flying over from moscow. The russian government attorney. That means you. Translator no, im certainly flattered by being mocked and called as a government attorney, but i have never worked for the government in the first place. And today a kremlin spokesman said the russian government had nothing to do with her meeting, but some Intelligence Experts tell nbc news they believe the lawyer was a dangle sent to meeting with donald trump jr. To see how the trump team would react to being offered campaign help from the russians. With me, evelyn farkas, a former Deputy Assistant secretary of defense. John kriefr served for 20 years and was the deputy for the Russian Operations in the early 2000s. Evelyn, i want to start with the breaking new, that he asked it twice and putin said he didnt do it. What do you make of it . I think it is too vague. What did he ask putin. I mean i didnt do it. Didnt do what . It depends on the phraseology the president used but it doesnt matter. Putin is going to deny it and the president is not going to get the answer he wants from Vladimir Putin. I would have liked the president to then tell Vladimir Putin that he needs to stop all of the ongoing interference in, you know, the cyber hacking, the attacks, the penetration of our systems, and if he doesnt do so there will be consequences. Thats the message our president should have given Vladimir Putin. I wouldnt have asked him a question. All of this, john, leads us to what were hearing that sounds like, frankly, a russian spy novel. A lot of people learning for the first time this word dangle. Adam schiff, the congressman, says thats what he thinks was going on here. Let me show you what he said. Do you believe that the russian lawyer was a dangle put out by the russians to see how the Trump Campaign reaction would be . It certainly appears that way, that this is, you know, very much consistent with the russian practices. They might choose because she gives them some deniability as to someone who has a more direct connection to the government. Congressman, what do you congressman. John, what do you think . I just gave you a job im sure you dont want. No, not right now i dont. In some sense it is irrelevant whether she was witting and did it on behalf of the kremlin or whether she was used by the krem lin kremlin, but it was clearly a trap set up by the russian clearly it was a trap, no doubt in your mind . No doubt in my mind. Essentially the email itself was the trap. U. S. The campaign, are you willing to prostitute yourself. They get the answer back, yes. So when that meeting takes place, thats almost irrelevant. The fact of the meeting suggests to the russians they are willing to step over the line and do something that might implicate themselves, put themselves in a con sp conspiratorial mode. Whether she knew about it or not, it is irrelevant. I see the look on your face, evelyn. But what are you thinking . Im thinking it is possible it was a dangle, but look at the rest of the email. When goldstone says to donald trump jr. It is a meeting and part of the russians Government Support to mr. Trump, he that implies he presents it as if donald trump jr. Already knows that the russian government is supporting mr. Trump. So i think theres more about the context here we need to know. Yes, it is possible she was unwitting and this was a dangle, or it is possible that theres a Bigger Picture here, more support. You know, today we have the mcclatchy story come out about the possibility that some of the data work that Jared Kushner had paid for made its way to the russians so that the russians then were able to target the fake news that they were pumping out through their bots on the internet through facebook and twitter, to states like michigan which basically Hillary Clinton lost by about 5,000 votes. So, you know, there might be a Bigger Picture here. I would like to know the context and why that was sort of obvious to donald trump that russia is supporting his father. You know, one of the things that can i add a little bit to that . Go ahead, sure. Can i add a little bit before the next question . If you want to take the conspiracy a little further and we dont have enough information to do that the email itself, his response to the email essentially was, hey, you know, are you willing to work with us, do you want this information on Hillary Clinton . And he said, yes, and later in the summer. In and of itself that may have been a signal of the russians to what they do. They could have suggested to someone trained in intelligence, youre almost there may be some predicate to this ahead of time where youre saying, okay, im now sending my signal. Now, i dont know if it is true. The fbi and others will be able to take all of this data, all of this travel, all of this information and be able to put together with a timeline whether it makes sense, but that answer in the email itself aside from the meeting is pretty troubling. Im going to drive the control room crazy. Can we pull up that sound from is it about the 400 pound man . Anyway, let me so jen paul mary when she was working for the trump the Clinton Campaign actually was just on a show a little bit earlier and she suggested that then you have donald trump saying not too much later, go ahead, release more of these emails, wikileaks, russia, release these emails, which she actually said, evelyn, suggested might have been actually a direction to them. Is that a little step too far . I dont i dont think it is impossible, chris. I mean i know it sounds crazy. This is like something it all sounds crazy. Like not even a john lecarre novel, i dont think he could have imagined this, but it is possible. I have heard lawyers talk about the possibility of cooperation or collusion happening right out there in the open, you know, through the airwaves. So it is possible. More to come. Evelyn farkas, john cipher. Fascinating conversation. Thank you both very much. Thats not all. Ahead we will talk about a new focus on Jared Kushner and three meetings he had with russians. Plus, donald trump jr. Thought he was getting the dirt on Hillary Clinton from the russians. Maybe Something Like this happened before and someone did actually go to the fbi. That person will join me exclusively tonight. Youve got to hear this story. I dont share it with mom. I dont. Right, mom . I have a brand new putter you dont even know about its awesome. Safe driving bonus checks, only from allstate. Sometimes i leave the seat up on purpose. Switching to allstate is worth it. Heri think i might burst. Totally immersed weekenders. Whatever kind of weekender you are, theres a hilton for you. Book your weekend break direct with hilton. Com and join the summer weekenders. If you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture. I can tell you prolia® is proven to help protect bones from fracture. But the real proof . My doctor said prolia® helped my bones get stronger. Are your bones getting stronger . Do not take prolia® if you have low blood calcium, are pregnant, are allergic to it, or take xgeva®. Serious allergic reactions, like low blood pressure; trouble breathing; throat tightness; face, lip, or tongue swelling; rash; itching or hives have happened. Tell your doctor about dental problems, as severe jaw bone problems may happen, or new or unusual pain in your hip, groin or thigh, as unusual thigh bone fractures have occurred. Speak to your doctor before stopping prolia®, as spine and other bone fractures have occurred. Prolia® can cause serious side effects, like low blood calcium; serious infections, which could need hospitalization skin problems; and severe bone, joint or muscle pain. Only prolia® helps strengthen and protect bones with 2 shots a year. I have proof prolia® works for me. Ask your doctor about prolia® today. Are made with smarttrack®igners material to precisely move your teeth to your best smile. See how invisalign® treatment can shape your smile up to 50 faster today at invisalign. Com so the big question everybody is asking, is donald trump jr. In legal trouble . Well, President Trumps personal Attorney Says no. What is the law alleged to be violated here . The truth of the matter is a meeting under the circumstances described by the release of the email that donald trump jr. Did yesterday is not a violation of the law. And to be clear, collusion is not a legal term, it is not a crime. The meeting itself, not a crime. You heard trumps lawyer say there was no exchange of information. But if there was, could that be a crime . Campaign finance law states, it is unlawful for a Foreign National to make a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value in connection with a federal, state or local election to a committee of a political party. It is also unlawful for someone to solicit, accept or receive a contribution from a Foreign National. What exactly is a thing of value and can it be an exchange of information . Adam goldberg is former white house special associate counsel for president clinton and founder of trident gmg. Ryan goodman is a professor at New York University school of law. So let me start, if i can, what is a thing of value . Could this be a thing of value, information . Sure. Of course, it could be a thing of value. In fact, you might think for political campaigns one of the things of greatest value would be good investigations that produce opposition research. In fact, there are businesses in d. C. That thrive on that for their business. But presumably they dont do it with agents of a Foreign Government . Presumably they dont do it with agents of a Foreign Government. Presumably they do it on the books. But if they were a Foreign National providing that thing of value, they clearly would be in violation of u. S. Law. And i dont want to suggest that this lawyer was an agent of a Foreign Government. We dont know. But just in terms of the big picture law, we have the email showing that donald trump jr. Thought he might have actually been getting some incriminating evidence on clinton. You can decide whether or not you think it is a thing of value. He admits to pushing for it during that meeting. Lets listen to what he said. I was probably pressing because the pretext of the meeting was, hey, i have information about your opponent. It was this, hey, you know, some dnc donors may have done something in russia and didnt pay taxes. I was like, what does this have to do with anything . So, adam, he says he didnt get worth while information from that meeting. Does it matter if there was intent there . Could that be interpreted as soliciting . It does not matter, right. Soliciting is not about having actually received the goods. It is about asking for the goods, and i think his emails responding to the initial one clearly konconstitutes solicitation. We are talking too narrowly when we talk about donald trump jr. We should be focusing on Jared Kushner and the president. Jared was on those emails. He knew that the russian government was purportedly trying to help the campaign. This was a meeting set up at the behest of the russian government. All of the analysis about donald trump jr. Applies equally to Jared Kushner and potentially the president if he was told about this. That begs a question i wondered about when i read this statement, particularly the part that says, to a committee of a political party. In other words if thats who gets the information. Now, donald trump jr. Had, adam, know fis no official role in the campaign unlike Paul Manafort, for example. Are the stakes different if they were an official part of the campaign or not . I think they are. Even with donald trump jr. He clearly had a role with the campaign, even if informal. Having the chairman of the campaign and having Jared Kushner who had an active role in the campaign would satisfy that aspect of the legal requirement. I think now it turns to really the focus of the investigation probably would be focusing more on Jared Kushner and the president rather than donald trump jr. Ryan, we know this statement that was initially put out has been revised four times for various reasons. The New York Times now reporting that President Trump actually was the one who signed off on that initial statement. So that begs the question, is there a legal issue if he knew the statement was false or does it just look bad for him . We dont know, but does a statement that is not a signed statement, does that matter . So or is it just another piece of information investigators will use . It doesnt matter as a legal in terms of legal exposure or legal liability. An individual can lie to the press and they can lie to the public, thats not illegal. If they were to lie to authorities like a congressional investigation or an fbi investigation, then theyre in trouble. So i will be interested to see if, for example, they repeat the most recent story, the most recent statement to the special counsel, and if they repeat it to congressional investigators. Well, thats going to be interesting, adam, because we heard from Chuck Grassley today to say theyre trying to make an arrangement now for donald trump jr. To come in and testify. He didnt say whether it would be publicly or not, but donald trump jr. Has said, im going to do whatever i need to do to clear my name. What question would you have first and foremost for him . Well, i would want to know, you know, what did he tell the president about this meeting before he happened when he first got that email and what did he tell Jared Kushner. I would love to see the emails back and forth among kushner, manafort and himself. Lets remember, Jared Kushner actually signed a statement saying he didnt have these meetings. He didnt disclose three meetings including this one when he was getting a security clearance and now hes subsequently disclosed them. He was apparently, you know, party to this statement as well when it was issued that also wasnt very forthcoming. Again, i think, you know, a big focus has to be on Jared Kushner right now. I think one of the practical questions is a person of his stature who probably has a staff the way he does, would it not have been pretty easy for them to check and see who might have been on his schedule. But thats for investigators to look at. Ryan goodman, adam goldberg, gentlemen, thank you so much. A lot of legal questions still to come. Coming up, when should a Campaign Call the fbi . President trumps nominee to be the next fbi director was grilled today over donald trump jr. s meeting. Im going to talk to a former top fbi official about his answer next. More kinds of crab than ever, new dishes, and all your favorites. Only while crabfest lasts. Red lobster. Now this is seafood. Binders, done. Supercool notebooks, done. Thats mom taking care of business. But who takes care of mom . Office depot office max. This week, get this ream of paper for just one cent after rewards. Taking care of business. We dei should know. M our eyes every day. I have chronic dry eye caused by reduced tear production due to inflammation. So i use restasis multidose. It helps me make more of my own tears, with continued use, twice a day, every day. Restasis multidose helps increase your eyes natural ability to produce tears, which may be reduced by inflammation due to chronic dry eye. Restasis multidose did not increase tear production in patients using antiinflammatory eye drops or tear duct plugs. To help avoid eye injury and contamination, do not touch the bottle tip to your eye or other surfaces. Wait 15 minutes after use before inserting contact lenses. The most common side effect is a temporary burning sensation. Your eyes. Your tears. Ask your eye doctor about restasis multidose. Finding the best hotel price is now a safe bet. Because tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites so you save up to 30 on the hotel you want. Lock it in. Tripadvisor. Type 2 diabetes with fitness, food and the pill that starts with f. Farxiga, along with diet and exercise, helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. Lowering a1c by up to 1. 2 points. Do not take if allergic to farxiga. If you experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking and seek medical help right away. Do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. Tell your doctor right away if you have blood or red color in your urine or pain while you urinate. Farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, genital yeast infections in women and men, serious urinary tract infections, low blood sugar, and kidney problems. Stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have signs of ketoacidosis which is serious and may lead to death. Ask your doctor about the pill that starts with f and learn how you can get farxiga for free. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Your bbut as you get older,ing. It naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. Thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. The secret is an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. Former congressman tom downey who prepares the Vice President for debates received a package of materials wednesday containing notes and a videotape. Democratic sources tell nbc news on that tape is governor bush in a mock debate with New Hampshire senator jud gray. Downey, realizing he shouldnt have the material, immediately turned it over to his lawyer who in turn passed it on to the fbi. So that was an nbc story from 2000, one of the big stories of the campaign because the Gore Campaign contacted the fbi after it was given oped research on george w. Bush. Thomas downey was playing the role of bush in debate prep and he got a package. He immediately removed himself from those rehearsals to avoid even the appearance of misconduct. Now, of course, that begs the question, why donald trump jr. Didnt do the same thing. Should he have contacted the fbi when he got those emails, suggesting a meeting with someone scribbled described as government lawyer with dirt on Hilary Clinton . Joining me, former congressman Thomas Downey who turned over those opposition files back in 2000. This is fascinating. I will be honest, i had forgotten about this. Let me start with coming to present day, what was your take when you saw those emails . Well, i was surprised that, number one, the first thing that should have occurred to donald trump jr. Was, i shouldnt have be doing this meeting, and tro to fintry to find a way contact the fbi to explain a ru russian cutout was attempted to interfere with the election. His explanation, and last night when he was talking to sean hannity he said, look, i was inexperienced in politics, things were moving a million miles an hour, didnt know if it was going to turn out to be anything anyway. What do you make of that as a defense . Well, it is pretty flimsy. First of all, he had the presence of mind to contact his brotherinlaw and Paul Manafort. If he had any serious notion of meeting with a russian operative, he should have talked to somebody in the campaign who had some experience with dealing with the russians. So an argument that i have heard from one republican is, look, this is somebody who dealt with russians all the time by their own admission in terms of business. To them this was not a country thats an enemy of the United States. This is a country where they had a lot of business partners, somebody who was in business with, an acquaintance, asked him for a favor, he did it. He did pull in Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner, but what about the idea he just didnt see it the way you saw it back in 2000 . Well, that that is the problem. His father is running for president of the United States. Unless hes living under a rock he would have had to have heard the democrats and the republicans talking about what the russians are doing in syria, the difficult role that they are attempting to their involvement in ukraine. So this is an adversary power. I believe in good relations with the russians, but we have to also understand that their interests are not the same as those of the United States. And for him not to know that even though he had had business dealings in russia, thats not very believable. Im curious, congressman. Back then and youve got this good stuff on george w. Bush and the campaign is as close as close can be and we all know how close it turned out to be, how long did it take within the campaign to make a decision to do what you did, which was to call the fbi . Well, it actually didnt take very long at all. When i saw the videotape of george bush in his shorts doing a tim russert style mock interview, i realized that i shouldnt be seeing this and that the debate materials should not be in my possession. So it took not very long for me to get a hold of the fbi and turn over the materials to them. What was disappointing, of course, was i had to recuse miles fr myself from the campaign of my close personal friend. I had been his debate partner. I played bill bradley during the 2000 primaries, i played jack kemp in the past. There was something that had to be done. There are people that suggested your taking yourself out of the debate hurt him and his chances. Do you have second thoughts and think, wow, if the debate prep had been a little stronger, had his performance been a little stronger, al gore might have been president of the United States . No, i dont think about that. Im sorry that al lost and i think that there are lots of reason why that happened. What was more interesting about all of this was george bushs reaction to this. He said at the time, id like to shake his hand if i ever meet him. Well, i did meet president bush in november of 2002 and he was with some Eastern European parliamentarians at the nato session in prague. He saw me when i introduced myself, he put his arm around me and said to the Eastern European leaders, he was me, he was me. This is a good guy. I think what president bush understood and what i understand was that there was something more than just winning or losing a president ial election. It was making sure that the race itself was fair and free and open for the American People to decide. The irony is that the young woman who sent me those debate tapes and those materials wound up spending a year in jail, and the federal judge who sentenced her said at the time that the reason the sentence was so harsh for a first offense was that she had interfered in an American Election and had lied to the members of the judiciary about her role. Thats why the sentence was going to be so tough. Former congressman Thomas Downey, we are out of time, but it is such a pleasure to talk to you and to hear from someone who clearly did the right thing. Thank you. Thank you. What a fascinating story. This issue about whether donald trump jr. Should have gone to the fbi was indeed a key question on capitol hill today. It led to this exchange in the Senate Confirmation hearing for President Trumps nominee to be fbi director, chris rey. Should donald trump jr. Have taken that meeting . Well, senator, i dont im hearing for the first time your description of it, so im not really in possessiition to spea it. Let me ask you this. If i got a call saying that the russian government wanted to help Lindsey Graham get reelected, they have girt on Lindsey Graham, should i take that meeting. You should consult with good Legal Advisers before you do that. Is the answer i should have called the fbi . It think it would be wise here is what i want you to tell every politician. If you get a call from somebody suggesting that a Foreign Government wants to help you by disparaging your opponent, tell us all to call the fbi. To the members of this committee, any threat or effort to interfere with our elections from any nation state or any nonstate actor is the kind of thing the fbi would want to know. That was an amazing exchange. Joining me ron hoscoe, former fbi assistant director. What do you think of reys experience answers to senator grahams questioning . Yeah, i think that chris rey took a very measured tone throughout the process today, an appropriate tone. He really was in many ways today a straw man for the political arguments that one side or the other wanted to make about the russia investigation, about donald trump jr. , about donald trump sr. So i think he was measured, he was circumspect. He was in that encounter. Certainly thats exactly what the fbi wants, is if theres a foreign nation state or a nonstate actor trying to influence a domestic election, they want the fbi to be called. That is the process. The congressman that you had on followed exactly what he should have done in that situation. Now we see what the other side does when when you dont follow that process. Does it matter where it comes from . Would it matter, for example, if it came from an ally like canada or the uk as opposed to russia . I think were talking about external influence on a domestic election. Of any kind . I think of any kind. And if in doubt, these folks should be, you know, calling the fbi. First, get good legal counsel. If thats the first step, but then, you know, consider going to the fbi. It could be and i heard your engagement with the congressman. Donald trump jr. Is not an elected official. Hes not been in politics to my knowledge, and i think there is a distinction between him and mr. Downey, a substantial distinction to be made. Whether that can be excused i dont know, but i think theres a lot more of this encounter that they had with this russian emmisary, this woman attorney, and thats going to be the job of bob muller to find out all of those at moss fimospherics. So some supporters say the president essentially shrugged it off. Obviously some people are defending it. On the other side i heard a lot of people say to me today, you know, ig nornls norance is no d when it comes to the law. If this had happened and the president or donald trump jr. Had come forward with this information last year, what do you think jim comey who was then fbi director would have done . I think they would have considered, you know, certainly looking at the background of this russian emmissary, this woman who is representing herls as herself as a representative of the government. Looking at that from a criminal perspective, a Counter Intelligence perspective, digging into her background very quickly, evaluating whether they should wire one of these folks or all of these folks or the room up for consensual monitoring to capture followon conversations, to see if she would perfect what she was proposing, that she had some sort of russian sponsored intelligence that was going to be helpful. I think the fbi would want to collect that information and pursue that. Ron hosco, former fbi assistant director. Good to see you. You too. What about Jared Kushner, the president s soninlaw, under fire for failing to report that meeting under his security clearance forms. He has updated the forms but is that enough. Could he lose his clearance . Me to the moon elegant music and let me play bell rings for over 100 yearsaking like kraft has,al cheese you learn a lot about peoples tastes. Honey, what do you want for dinner tonight . Oh whatever youre making. Triple cheddar stuffed sliders. Sold pump saying he only found out about the secret meeting a couple days ago. So much focus on donald trump jr. It became pretty apparent to jared and paul. You remember that. We were all there. The whole contact too how long . About 20 minutes. And he left after five or ten . So Jared Kushner we know was there. Why wasnt that disclosed initially and is this a pattern . Because each day she chooses to take the stairs. At work, at home. Even on the escalator. That can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. Scholls orthotics clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. So keep on climbing, sarah. Youre killing it. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. Binders, done. Supercool notebooks, done. Thats mom taking care of business. But who takes care of mom . Office depot office max. This week, get this ream of paper for just one cent after rewards. Taking care of business. Liz assumed all dressingsrust were made equal. Assume nothing. Just like the leading brands, these kraft dressings are made with high quality ingredients, at a price you can feel good about. No wonder kraft is so good. Jared kushner under fire, not disclosing his meeting with the russian lawyer. Details about that were forwarded to him by donald trump jr. How likely is it that kushner forgot about the meeting . This is a pattern. He forgot about a meeting with the russian bank, the russian lawyer. All three meetings not disclosed on the forms. Joining me now, the reporter for the globe and the reporter for bloomberg news. What are you hearing about this . I spoke with several republicans who said that they want all these folks to testify before open hearings before the senate Intelligence Committee. Particularly not just people like senator Lindsey Graham, a republican from South Carolina who has become an outspoken republican critic of sorts against pressing these folks to testify but frls marco rubio who are urging Robert Mueller to take a look at these folks. And honestly, i think thats where this is going. I think there is intensifying pressure from republicans to air out all of this in public. Is that what youre hearing as well . Absolutely. But i think theres a huge amount of confusion about why jarr jared security form has been aed menned at this point more times than obamacare. I mean, it seems like every few weeks, there is another disclosure. Oh, gosh, he goes back to get a waiver and redo the form. And i think you can do that once, twice. Youre getting into the handsful of times, i believe it is four times at this point. Even republicans are beginning to wonder, is this somebody who needs a spend a little less time, you know, in the white house . In the president s ear . And that question about his security clearance came up in the white house briefing. And sarah Huckabee Sanders, the white house spokesperson, had done a pretty request job so far blockading and not answering questions about him. I do think at some point, she will have to. Because Jared Kushner is the one person in this sort of stew who is still working in the white house. And has a top position in the white house. There is a legal question. A big legal question. Theres also a couple of practical questions. One practical question is if youre a member of a family that has in one case, his wifes family, billions of dollars. He came from a family with huge amount of family. He himself has run a huge company. How likely is it that if he did forget, lets say hes a very busy guy. He forgets three meetings. Theres no record of it . He doesnt have people who could have frakd to put this in the forms . Is there a common sense factor . Well, the meeting in question, the june 9 meeting, the meeting in question is one of the meetings that he did amend on the form. The question becomes, what about Paul Manafort . Who was then Campaign Manager at the time, who was also a part of this meeting. And so. With several republicans, lawmakers today, who told me that they have significant questions bePaul Manafort. This is a seasoned political operative. What was Paul Manafort doing at the time of all of this . How many go before congressional committees . All of them. Just from the congressional side. These members of Congress Really do love having these hearings. And theres a lot, you see all of them. Thank you, both. Thank you for watching. Im chris jansing. Hardball starts rye now. Trump leaves he the coverup. Lets play hardball. Good evening. We now know it was the white house that wrote that statement for donald trump jr. On saturday. The one that said the president s son met with the russian lawyer last summer to discuss a russian adoption program. The person who signed off on that bogus statement, according to the New York Times, was President Trump himself. Which tells us the man leading the russian coverup is the president of the united st