iowa caucuses. that the official kick-off to the 2016 election. now the republican race is down, one big foreign policy voice. senator lindsey graham suspending his campaign today. that news comes as a feud unfolds between the republican and democratic front runners. donald trump and hillary clinton. trump now demanding an apology for clinton's claim during saturday night's debate. when she called trump isis' best recruiting adding the terror group was showing trump's video. today he fired back. >> i demand an apology from hillary, okay? you can be the messenger. she should apologize. she lies about e-mails. she lies about whitewater, she lies about everything. she will be a disaster as president of the united states. >> clinton's campaign has been clear throughout the day there will be no apology. going so far as to tell the "wall street journal," "hell no. hillary clinton will not be apologizing to donald trump for correctly pointing out how his hateful rhetoric only helps isis recruit more terrorists." joining me dana milbank of "the washington post," mckay coppen and msnbc contributor victoria defrancesco. nice to have all of you with us today. there was a fair amount coming out of that debate given the fact it was couched on a saturday night and not a lot of people were thinking much would come out of it. the national conversation today is donald trump/hillary clinton. have the two of them moved past the primary in their minds? are they already in the general election? >> each would like to. hillary's case, that seems quite realistic. i don't think anybody can be sure of what's going to happen in the republican primary at this point. trump sucks all the oxygen out of the room. the fact he weighs in on the democratic debate makes the democratic debate, which had not been newsworthy otherwise more newsworthy. particularly that he has the chutzpah to ask hillary clinton to apologize for saying something that was dubious or wrong when that is, in fact, donald trump's stock and trade. it's an irresistible story. >> i want to play, in case people didn't hear it, exactly what hillary clinton said on saturday night. >> we also need to make sure the really discriminatory messages that trump is sending around the world don't fall on receptive ears. he is becoming isis' best recruiter. they are going to people showing videos of donald trump insulting islam and muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists. >> today they were firm there would be no apologies. going so far as to say the comments were being shown were taken out of context and simply that these things were being shown across the middle east and isis could point to things being shown. bottom line here, shouldn't the clinton camp know better? >> at the same time, we have to understand that hillary was performing in a way herself. what she was trying to do was draw that line in the sand between the democrats and the republicans, but what we have been seeing is within the republican party, not much disagreement about policy stance towards islam and muslims. especially with lindsey graham leaving the race. what i find really interesting, todays latest ppp poll shows clinton in the general election would get 46% of the vote and trump 43%. so you see theboth of them tryi to match each other up. donald trump knows is there a potential weakness with hillary clinton given she is tied so closely to obama. right now the number one concern of americans is terrorism. >> there is also a concern though about truthfulness. hillary clinton must know, i'm sure she's seen the polling as we had, this is a consistent issue for her. americans do not always trust hillary clinton. i go back to the question, shouldn't she have known better even if she was performing? >> absolutely. she should have known better. it's one thing for the campaign to say as they've been saying all through today that comments like the ones trump has made and other republicans made help isis. that's a broad statement. she made a very specific assertion that so far has turned out to be false. i've checked three or four fact check organizations all which said there is no evidence to conclude that donald trump is specifically being shown in videos to recruit isis members. the broader point clinton makes is fair. i think that that's a good debate to have. your message gets lost, and hillary clinton knows this, when you end up making assertions that are not technically speaking true. this is something that is going to be a problem for her no matter who she face necessary the general election unless she can learn to be more disciplined and careful. >> interestingly enough though, as you pointed out earlier, these are not issues for donald trump who has multiple times said things that were not true. sort of made up facts and figures on a number of occasions. in some ways, is donald trump actually playing this race better than anybody? is he the smartest politician in the room? >> when you think about the expectations where he would be and where he is, it's indisputable -- he's exploited the republican party system and said look if i hit all these hot buttons, i'm going to get out the most extreme elements of the party. that's what's going to happen. he redefined making it a nastier race. in a way we are living in this post truth campaign. it doesn't matter if he makes stuff up. there is a double standard and not helpful for hillary clinton to say anything untruthful. it's absurd she is being questioned of saying something fundamentally true he is helping isis recruit compared to this man making up everything all along the way. the's almost like there is no penalty for just making it up as you go along. >> sometimes it can feel that way does this have an impact? >> it does. what we are seeing is the establishment republicans pulling further back. what is going to be interesting is going to be what happened on the ground in south carolina. even though lindsey graham was not polling well in south carolina, in the primary polls, he had a very deep organization there. he has been senator from south carolina for decades. i'm going to be curious to see if he puts that. we have a couple of establishment republicans left in the race. jeb bush, marco rubio. i think it's going to be interesting to see there. after new hampshire and iowa, south carolina is going to be decisive. him leaving the race is going to be important with the organizational resources and where he puts them. >> in terms of resources, it's also about where he may throw his support. mckay, in this particular race, moving into 2016, do endorsements from establishment candidates and establishment republicans matter? >> yeah. that's a great question. i think they could matter in terms of narrowing the establishment field a little bit. there are still are probably four, five candidates, maybe more that would consider themselves or would be considered establishment republican candidates. that said, lindsey graham, as entertaining as he was on the campaign trail, charming as he was to a lot of political observers, he commands, i think, less than 1% in national polls. even in south carolina polls, his support is pretty small. an endorsement, it's not like he is sending a flood of supporters toward whatever candidate he gets behind. that said, south carolina, if it becomes a really close primary, maybe he can tip the scales a little bit. i don't know. in this era, at least in this campaign, none of the typical things you do to win elections like gather a newspaper endorsements and political endorsements and spend a lot of time on the campaign trail shaking hands at diners, none of that stuff mattered so far. what's matter is being the noisiest, loudest and craziest and having the most media attention. i don't know if lindsey graham can help anyone beat donald trump on that front. appreciate all of you being with us tonight. thanks. still to come, a number of developing stories we are following on this monday night, including out of afghanistan where the taliban have now claimed a responsibility for an attack that left six american soldiers dead. president obama addressing criticism of his strategy to fight isis. what he says about the threat the terror group poses to the united states. judge. >> the man charged with purchasing the weapons used in the san bernardino attacks appeared in court today for a bail hearing. you're watching msnbc live. when cigarette cravings hit, all i can think about is getting relief. only nicorette mini has a patented fast-dissolving formula. it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. i never know when i'll need relief. that's why i only choose nicorette mini. coming up, american casualties abroad. six americans were among the co-diction pouco coalition forces killed in afghanistan. ♪ (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. whfight back fastts tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue and neutralizes stomach acid at the source tum, tum, tum, tum smoothies! only from tums developing news from afghanistan this evening. senior u.s. officials confirm to nbc news six americans serving the nato military mission in afghanistan were killed by a suicide bomber near bagram air field earlier today. another two americans and interpreter were wounded. that attack occurred during a routine security patrol around the base. the taliban claimed responsibility for the attack. the fight against isis continues elsewhere in the region. the joint task force confirming the u.s. coalition conducted 12 air strikes against isis in iraq on sunday. 10 of those near ramadi and mosul took out isis fighting positions, buildings, tactical units and weapons storage facilities. in a new interview released today with npr, president obama said the u.s. will not relent in the strikes against the terror group. >> if you are living in a town that historically relied on coal and you see coal jobs diminishing, you're probably going to be more s susceptible to the argument i've been wiping out the economy in your area. it doesn't matter if i tell them it's right because natural gas is a lot cheaper now. if you are living in a town that historically relied on coal and you see coal jobs diminishing, you're probably going to be more susceptible to the argument -- >> our apologies. that was the wrong bit of sound from the president. we will find that for you. we want to talk more about what happened both in afghanistan today, these air strikes, the u.s., strategy to fight isis. joining us now, colonel jack jacobs, medal of honor recipient. we'll do our best to get that other bit of sound back. i'd like to get your rack. it's alarming somebody could get that close on a motorcycle. >> we conduct these missions all the time in afghanistan where american troops are are guarding the path from one village to another. in this case from bagram air base to a village where there is a meeting with headmen, chiefs and so on. that's the principle exercise security that we're conducting in afghanistan. that and training indigenous forces to do this on their own. our troops are constantly at risk. these are not secure areas and just about anybody can do exactly what took place today. that's principally the mission which we're involved. >> to that point, are you surprised this hasn't happened more often? >> well, yes, except that we are trying our best to get really good intelligence. it's good intelligence at the end of the day that's making a difference in the accomplishment of our mission. we have very few people there. the plan is to have fewer still. we're fighting basically what they call in military parlance detachment left in contact operation. we are a small number of troops, stay behind to protect the egress of the rest of the troops. we plussed them up but ultimately the administration's plan is to withdraw everybody. that means that the people who are left behind are at greater risk as long as the central government is not around to secure the area, as long as the indigenous forces are not strong enough to secure the area and our forces will be at risk until we're all gone. >> looking now as we turn to the fight against isis, we are learning a little more detail about air strikes that happened over the weekend. 8,900 or so air strikes against isis. are they working? >> tactically, yes. they are doing a great job. if you're trying to get rid of specific individuals, small knots of bad guys, ammo dumps, convoys, other kinds of tactical targets, we are doing a great job getting rid of them. if what you're trying to do is to have a strategic success, that is an area free of enemy, you are not going to be able to do that unless you move sufficient numbers of ground forces there on the ground to take the area away from the enemy once you eliminate them. without that, they're all going to come back. to do that, we need the assistance of allies in the region. but that assistance is not necessarily coming. you don't see the saudis doing anything significant. you don't see any of the people there who really have an interest in the outcome in the region providing forces to assist and take over in the region so once the areas taken from the enemy that the enemy can't come back. for that you need a multinational force. for that you need really good d diplomacy. >> the president acknowledging the fact the administration has been called out for its strategy. he was saying that one of the reasons is that they don't talk enough regularly about what's being done to fight isis. the president has been much more vocal the last couple of weeks about that. is that helping not only here at home but on that diplomatic front in terms of gathering strength and help in the region? >> i believe public pronouncements don't do anything except to satisfy the people listening domestically. woodrow wilson said, what we need are open pacts openly arrived at. we shouldn't talk about anything in public. all pacts need to be secured behind closed doors. the more you talk about it in public, the less likely you are to have a pact. everything needs to be done quietly then announce it. talking about things publically, about what you really expect from people about what you are going to do and then don't deliver works counter to what you are trying to accomplish. good diplomacy behind closed doors. maybe economic sanctions, as well. discussions behind closed doors is what's really going to generate what we need in the middle east. until that time you, talking about it in public by officials doesn't accomplish anything. >> colonel jack jacobs, always appreciate your insight. thank you. the latest in the investigation into those shootings in san bernardino. the sole person charged in the terror spree appearing in court today. plus, is donald trump courting democrats in his run for the white house? 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[ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes stomach acid and is the only product that forms a protective barrier that helps keep stomach acid in the stomach where it belongs. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief. try gaviscon®. developing now, a friend and former neighbor of san bernardino shooter syed farook back in court today. prosecutors argued enrique marquez is a danger to the community. the judge agreed and he will await in custody. he is accused of illegally buying the two assault rifles used in the san bernardino attack. they say he planned attacks with farook in 2011 and 2012 but they were never carried out. miguel almaguer is standing by in los angeles. >> good evening. today's hearing was a detention hearing, essentially a bond hearing. the judge says enrique marquez was not a flight risk. the 24-year-old does not own a passport, but she said because of the nature of the crime that occurred earlier this month, he was a threat to the community. enrique marquez remains in custody without bond. he will not be able to post bail, unable to leave the federal detention facility he's in. i'll have to stay there until his next court appearance which is january 4th. a preliminary hearing. he may enter a plea guilty or not guilty. not many details into what happened inside the courtroom today. we'll look for more detail the next time he's in court early next month. >> we'll be looking for that. thank you. we are joined by bryant levin, professor of criminal justice at california state university in san bernardino. good to see you, as always. as we heard from miguel, the judge saying that he had to stay there, enrique marquez had to stay there because he is a threat to the community. he didn't follow through on anything. does he seem to be a threat in your eyes? >> yes. i don't think he was a flight risk. you have great questions. let me try and back up a little bit, put this in order of things. the 8th amendment protects us from cruel and unusual parliament. in 1989 the u.s. supreme court held bail is not a guaranteed right. you do have the right to a hearing. so there is a 1984 law called the bail reform act. one of the things it does is sets up criteria by which magistrates and they handle a lot of the pretrial activities. they have a four-part test they look at. they look at the offense, look at the weight of the evidence. they look at personal history of the person who is under arrest. they also look at number four which miguel was talking about, the nature and seriousness of the offense. while they found, the magistrate who is a cal state san bernardino grad. what he found is marquez was not a flight risk. as miguel pointed out, he doesn't have a passport. however, the severity of the offense was enough to make him be deemed a danger to the community. that is why he did not get bail. >> there are a lot of questions tonight about the relationship at the point of the shootings between him and syed grig syed . we get to this point in 2015. based on what you know how people typically operate, do you have any sense of what could have happened between these two? >> yes. what a great question again. in these duos, whether it was muhammed and malveaux, timothy mcveigh and miss assistant terry nichols, there is usually a dominant player in the duo. the fact this conspiracy was never carried out -- and remember, a conspiracy is merely an agreement between two parties to commit a crime and an overidentifiable step toward the crime. marquez was a bit more vulnerable and the more malleable one. he never carried out anything. when it came time for the terrorist attacks to be carried out with the weapons marquez bought, syed farook used his wife and not marquez. there is no evidence marquez knew about the plan or he would be charged with possibly more offenses. i think they are throwing the book at marquez. i do think in some way he was conflicted, got cold feet, was not deemed reliable by farooq. you don't need to have the other conspirator charged or even convicted in order for one member of the conspiracy to be charged and tried. >> we talk about the threat of terror at home, specifically about isis. president obama said today, it's understandable. he understands why people are concerned at home, but, and these are his exact words, americans should keep things in perspective regarding isis. put it in perspective for us, if you would. how concerned do we need to be about isis in the united states? >> i think we have to be very concerned. i don't think we need to be alarmed. we have the biggest terrorism risk since 9/11. there are over 900 investigations in all 50 states. most of which involve isis. by the same token, they've only been able so far to get amateurs who are inspired. the united states government had been successful thwarting orchestrated attacks. we should understand that. one thing really important to say. we have 318 million sets of eyes that can thwart a terrorist attack. the rolling up of another plot in the inland empire in 2012 scared these amateurs. what we need to do is we see leakage in 30%, 40% of the cases. statements or behaviors which tips somebody off. if you see something, say something. don't be afraid. call the fbi. we have a greater chance of being killed, god forbid in automobile accidents, 33,000 people a year. yes, there is a risk of terrorism, but also a risk of many other things. take that in the context presented. not merely look at one particular risk in life when there are many. live your life. go to christmas parties. have a good time. keep your eyes open, particularly in public places and cooperate with authorities if something seems out of place. >> appreciate as always. thank you. >> thank you and merry christmas to you and your family. >> thanks. still to come here on msnbc, donald trump is leading the republican race for the white house. is he also managing to win over democrats in the process? 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and b, is it really an active play on the part of donald trump for these voters? >> to take, b, first, yes. he is appealing to white middle class voters. i heard the president talk this way going back five, six years i was in a session with him at the white house where he was saying almost exactly the same thing. his concern was that the blue collar workers who were employed in factories in the '90s, they got jobs in the construction industry and into the 2000s. with the great recession, they lost those jobs. the question was, how are they going to be employed a huge social question for everybody. trump is tapping into this. the problem for trump and the republicans is that many of those voters were already republicans. these were not obama voters who are in danger of deserting hillary. the advantage for trump is a lot of them are nonvoters. people who dropped out of the political process all together and are part of that very large number of americans who don't vote. if trump can bring them back to the polls, get them to register, then he could be a much bigger factor. so far he has no registration program to speak of. he's not doing well on the ground in iowa or new hampshire. he hasn't taken the time and spent the money to actually build a grassroots organization to bring these folks to the polls. >> how much could that hurt him moving forward? we hear about how the time on the ground, especially places like new hampshire, how important that is. >> i think it's a big problem for donald trump. nobody is expecting him to beat ted cruz in iowa. he had an event for organizers, iowa precinct organizers which are critical. at a comparable obama event they got 1,000 people willing to go. donald trump attracted 70. that's all the people who showed up to actually work for donald trump on caucus day. he's got a lot of ground to gain. also in new hampshire, he hasn't been up there very much. neither has marco rubio. new hampshire voters say i can't decide who to vote for until i meet all the candidates. that plays to chris crist why i or others. not to say donald trump isn't going to do well in new hampshire, but maybe not as well as the polls indicate. >> when it comes to those middle class voters, how much and how effectively are democrats making a play? >> hillary clinton speaks to the middle class issues every time you hear her on the stump. to go back to jonathan's point, we are talking about reagan democrats, 1980. these people left the democratic party decades ago. they are long gone. what trump needs to do, if he is going to win a general election, but he has alienated constituencies like hispanics, he's going to have problem with women if he's going up against hillary, he's going to need to boost the white male vote pretty significantly to compete with the offsetting, his problems on those other demographics. as far as middle class message goes, it's a very generic message. when you get to a general election, you've got all these other demographics that you have to piece together to put a coalition together with. ironically, trump's entire campaign is almost dependent on what obama did. he brought new people in that never participated before. that's what we are going to see soon in iowa and new hampshire. all these people filling into these huge rallies. do they show up? that is what obama did to change the calculus. >> let's say they don't all come in in iowa where polling suggests it's not going to be donald trump to take iowa. if he doesn't come out on top in iowa, do those people who have checked out remain in that camp? my guy didn't win in iowa, maybe i'm not going to bother to vote in my state. >> his whole campaign is based on i'm a winner, the rest are losers, if he doesn't start winning caucuses and primaries, he loses the whole reason for his candidacy. he has to win new hampshire. if he loses iowa to ted cruz and loses new hampshire, he's done. the question is how much does he need to win new hampshire by in order to have it be seen as a victory if somebody else comes in a close second, do they get the momentum coming out of new hampshire? there are a lot of other states where if trump does win new hampshire, he is going to collect bets. it's likely when i'll be a big factor going to cleveland. >> you could make the case even if he doesn't end up with the nom nashgs trump has fundamentally changed the way this race is run. >> yeah. absolutely. the problem for republicans, he is going to collect delegates everywhere. say he doesn't win iowa. he goes to new hampshire. he is probably going to be in the top three in all these states. does he decide to get out at some point? and sort of give up? we don't know. we have no idea to predict how donald trump would react to a loss. we have no idea what he would say, what he would do, if he would go toward that independent bid. i know he said he would stay with the republican party. he said that before and reneged. what's to say he wouldn't do it again? i think he is a completely unpredictable political figure. we are not going to know until we know. >> that is the one thing they can count on, we have no idea what he will do next. >> he is very unpredictable that way. we know he's a demagogue. he exploits people's fears. i think what we don't know, one of the big continuation we don't know is something behind the scenes. will he invest more of his own money in building a grassroots organization? so far, it's felt like he can campaign and calling into talk shows and it's working for him. that's not a long-term strategy to actually win the nomination. at a certain point you have to convert all of that support at rallies to an organization. that's how you actually win these primaries. especially the caucuses. you can't win caucus stage without organization. >> you have to bring the people in physically. >> people aren't going to do that unless somebody has called them and said do you have transportation and requires a real organization. >> be interesting to see we'll be watching closely. only 41 days. i know it's on both your calendars. thanks very much. still to come, new details about a crash on the vegas strip that killed one person and injured nearly three dozen others. new measures amtrak has in place ahead of the busy travel season. at&t knows the best kind of holiday... is the kind where everyone gets what they wished for. make this holiday extra happy when you buy one get one free on our most popular smartphones... like the samsung galaxy s6. buy one get one free. so spread some cheer. and capture every minute of it. right now at at&t, buy one get one free on our most popular smartphones. the first gummy multivitamin... ...from centrum. a complete, and tasty way to support... ...your energy... ...immunity... and metabolism like never before. centrum multigummies. see gummies in a whole new light. it's a really big deal. and with fever, aches, and chills, mom knows it needs a big solution: an antiviral. don't kid around with the flu, call your doctor within the first 48 hours of symptoms and ask about prescription tamiflu. attack the flu virus at its source with tamiflu, an antiviral that helps stop it from spreading in the body. tamiflu in liquid form is fda approved to treat the flu in people two weeks of age and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing, have serious health conditions, or take other medicines. if you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior, stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately. children and adolescents in particular may be at an increased risk of seizures, confusion, or abnormal behavior. the most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. anti-flu? go antiviral with tamiflu. ugh! heartburn! no one burns on my watch! try alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. they work fast and don't taste chalky. mmm...amazing. i have heartburn. alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. vegas crash which left one person dead and at least 35 others injured. authorities say 24-year-old lakeisha holloway intentionally plowed her 1996 oldmobile on to a sidewalk along the strip with a 3-year-old girl in the car. officials describe holloway as stoic following the crash, saying she may have been under the influence of a stimulant. blood tests are still pending. holloway is being held in police custody without bail and faces charges of murder with a deadly weapon. 100 million americans are expected to travel this christmas week, many by train. tonight amtrak is ramping up its safety system. officials announcing the positive train control was switched on over the weekend that. system which is now operational between new york and philadelphia uses gps and other systems to prevent trails from derailing or colliding with one another. the move comes seven months after a fatal crash in philadelphia that killed eight and injured more than 200 people traveling on a new york-bound train. we are learning new did he bails about a 2013 scyber attac that has u.s. officials on high alert. iranian cyber spies penetrated the control system of a dam roughly 20 miles from new york and gained access to operations managing the flood gates. this as the associated press reports foreign hackers breached networks central to our infrastructure in the u.s. about a dozen times over the last decade. the white house saying it's increasing efforts to protect the u.s. from cyber warfare. today is the busiest delivery day of the year. americans scrambling to ship last-minute holiday gifts. more than 30 million packages are expected to be delivered across the country via the postal service which has seen a 15% growth in package volume the last year. anyone hoping to have their items delivered by christmas better get that order out today. for those who missed their chance, you have until wednesday to send your packages using the more costly priority mail express. a pair of nasa astronauted completed an unlaned walk today to fix a railcar. a motorized equipment stalled last week. the operation was completed in under an hour. with what we were told, took two solid whacks, how a lot of us fix things at home. it will allow a russian supply ship to dock at the station on wednesday. it was a tough moment on sunday night at the miss universe pageant sparking controversy. host steve harvey announced the wrong winner at the end prompting an uncomfortable on-air apology. >> i have to apologize. the first runner-up is colombia. >> the actual winner of the big event was miss philippines, not miss colombia. after revealing he made an error the accidental beauty queen had to give back the crown and bouquet of flowers she already received. o'dell beckham jr suspended for aggressive play in this weekend's game. is that too much or not enough? ♪ (vo) some call it giving back. we call it share the love. during our share the love event, get a new subaru, and we'll donate $250 to those in need. bringing our total donations to over sixty-five million dollars. and bringing love where it's needed most. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. my plan is to make it work, to sell arab instead of going to war in yemen, they have to go to war against isis. to tell cat qatar, insped of spending $200 million on the world cup, pay attention to isis at their door step. >> senator bernie sanders talking fifa at the democratic debates. no question it's a huge player on the world stage. now the former president of the game was shunned on charges of corruption. an nfl star suspended after losing his cool on the field. ♪ ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. 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[ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ frequent heartburn brand in america. my mom works at ge. i hope you like it spicy! get complete protection with the purple pill. the new leader in frequent heartburn. that's nexium level protection. breaking sports news today. odell beckham jr, star receiver for the new york giants, has been suspended for one game because of this in a contest with the undefeated carolina panthers yesterday. beckham received three personal foul penalties during an ongoing battle with josh norman. beckham seen as one of the up-and-coming superstars is appealing the suspension. others are questioning whether the one-game suspension is enough. joining me with more, jay busby. nice to have you with us. >> pleasure to be here. >> did the nfl make the right call here? >> i think they did. they've been trying hard to cut down on the appearance of going soft on concussions, on the idea that the nfl doesn't do enough to protect players' heads. what beckham did yesterday targeting josh norman deliberately on an unrelated play, something the nfl won't stand for. >> odell beckham jr is this rising star in the nfl. how significant is the suspension both in terms of him as a player and also where we are in this season? >> that's an excellent question. that's why i would not be surprised to see the suspension reduced on appeal to a large monetary fine. giants have a critical game coming up sunday night. sunday night football. everybody will be watching it. beckham will be the topic of conversation. i would not be surprised to see him in uniform this sunday night. >> right here on nbc, we should mention, to keep the love in the family. >> exactly. >> if it's reduced to a fine, does that exactly do what, as you pointed out, the nfl have been seen as soft when it comes to punishment? if they give a suspension and take it away, does that help them? >> that would not help them. certainly. there is an independent arbitrator that oversees these things. the question is whether or not the referees did enough. i would expect there to be perhaps quiet discipline for the referee for letting that game get out of control. it is on beckham to prove himself as a player that cannot only make astonishing catches, but stand up to the pressure of opposing cornerbacks that will talk to him more. >> we heard the coach of the giants, he spoke to him before the game about keeping his cool and considered pulling him in the third quarter. i want to move over to fifa for a minute. american football has a much bigger audience in this country. there is still a big love and huge fan base for soccer in the united states when you see the news seth blatter wants to appeal this eight-year ban, does that matter as much overseas as what the nfl is doing here? can you connect the two? >> yes. what fifa is doing is an order of magnitude, what they allowed happen in qatar, there are human rights violations going on there all the time. fifa's corruption runs far deeper than anything the united states has seen in its own sport ping events. >> appreciate you joining us tonight. >> thank you very much. thanks to all of you at home for watching msnbc live. i'm erica hill. see you back here tomorrow night 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" starts right now. ♪ the dark side. good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. coming off what you must call a "star wars" weekend. thanks to the saturday night debate, hillary clinton's too direct attack on donald trump this saturday night. she may have