Replace at a later date. A few things about that. Republicans will, one, likely need 60 votes to wholesale repeal the aca. Thats ten more votes than the 50 votes they havent been able to get for their proposed bill. Two, just repealing the aca would leave 33 million million more people uninsured than under the current law. Thats even worse than the Senate Version of trumpcare, which would leave 22 million more uninsured. Three, re pealing obamacare without having a replacement ready would likely further destabilize the Insurance Markets and lead to even more insurers pulling out of the exchanges. And four, who actually believes republicans would ever get around to the replace part . Joining me now republican strategist christopher metzler, Jonathan Cone of the huffington post, and tommy binion, director of congressional relations for the heritage foundation. Im going to start with you, tommy, and dispense with this idea of just repealing altogether obamacare because that would send the entire market into chaos, right . I dont think so. I think the markets would respond the way we expect a free market to respond. We know that free markets bring competition between firms when theyre competing for your business, theyre going to offer a better product at a lower price. Part of the reasons premiums have gone up so high is because of obamacare. I expect premiums to get a lot cheaper if obamacare were to be repealed. I think what were seeing from the president with that tweet, with his statement that if repeal and replace doesnt happen, hes still committed to keeping his campaign promise. President trump is absolutely committed to keeping that promise and all of his campaign promises. But no, i dont think that we should expect the Insurance Markets to collapse. Really . If republicans do what they say theyre going to do. If there was a robust market to insure the people who were added to the insurance rolls under the medicaid expansion, these are basically the working poor, people at 125 of the poverty rate, if there was such a robust market to offer them insurance then why wasnt it there before obamacare . Well, if were speaking about those people on medicaid we are. The cbo assumes some would leave medicaid, but medicaid is free. What . Theyre required to be on it under obamacare. And the cbo assumes some of them would leave despite not leave, no, no. Lose im sorry. They would not leave. This is not people voluntarily saying, you know, i choose to go uninsured. Its people losing their Health Insurance, essentially not having Health Insurance anymore. I want to get into under the senate bill nobody under the senate bill 22 Million People would lose their Health Insurance. The bulk would be because of cuts to medicaid. I want to go specifically into it because i want to make sure people really understand it because there are two different buckets of insured. There are about 10 Million People who buy in the nongroup market. Thats who you and the republicans are legislating for, just them. The 10 Million People who buy insurance under obamacare. So if we talk about those people, the new bill that they are the republicans are proposing would essentially force this is a great piece that the nbc news did a great analysis of this and it essentially said the bill would require people to pay higher premiums this is the nongroup people, to buy a private plan thats similar to whats already under obamacare. So theyd have to pay higher premiums to get what they get under obamacare now. And then it would reduce spending on the subsidies and distribute them in a way that encourages people to instead purchase a high deductible plan with lower premiums. People with lower premiums are just stuck with a high deductible plan. You think thats better . No, not in that specific case. That is for the nongroup market. Thats what would happen. Well, the cbo said late this week that this bill would actually drive the cost of premiums down by about 30 . For people who are getting right, they would drive the cost of premiums down for people who were then pushed into high deductible plans. You pay a lower premium, but when it comes time to use your insurance, youre paying a much higher deductible. Thats exactly what the cbo said. What those people will have under the senate bill is more choice. We know when they have more choices theyre going to exercise that choice. Thats a great bumper sticker. Thats a great bumper sticker. Because remember were still only talking about nongroup market but thats true. Hold on. Youre basically saying if people can buy more junk insurance, insurance that really doesnt cover much, insurance that has low premiums but insurance that covers the things they want. That are basic things. And most people like the services that theyre getting under obamacare, the free mammograms, et cetera i think most people want to pick the services they get, not have the federal government would they also pick to be uninsured . Because you keep on saying that people would voluntarily disenroll from insurance. And theres no would you voluntarily disenroll from insurance . I didnt say that. The cbo said it. No, the cbo said they would lose insurance. Said very specifically they would lose insurance. They said a few million would voluntarily leave lose their insurance. And the only people who would voluntarily disenroll and the only people who actually again get lower premiums are people who dont want to pay the penalty under obamacare and therefore disenroll because they didnt want to buy insurance. Thats a tiny fraction of the American People. Of that 10 million youre talking about maybe a couple of Million People. And then it also says at the same time that when you take away the subsidies from people lowincome seniors would be hurt the most. Sfwlt subsidies under the senate bill hold on. The biggest spikes in uninsurance, and im just saying what the cbo said, the biggest spikes in uninsurance come from older lowincome customers who would also have the hardest time finding affordable insurance. What do you think . Look, if were talking about the cbo, lets just think about how they did predicting no, no, answer my question. We dont have time to talk about the cbos methods. Do you think its a valuable tradeoff to have lower income people, the oldest and lowest income people have the hardest time finding insurance and be the most likely, the biggest spikes in losing their insurance . Do you think thats a fair tradeoff . I dont think thats what will happen under the senate bill. Thats what the cbo says will happen. I dont believe them. Lets go to Jonathan Cone why shouldnt they . Because they were spoton in the number of people who would get insurance. They had a different mix no, they werent spoton. They were incredibly wrong about it. They were wrong about how much it would cost and who would be insured. They were not. Health costs have gone down and number of people overall have gotten insurance correct. The mix of people who got it in the nongroup market versus the 72 million on the medicaid, the mix is what they got wrong. I want to get jonathan chone in here. Because the thing we know about this idea that is floating through the senate, and this is aside from them saying well repeal the whole thing. Is theres a one for one tradeoff taking place here. Approximately 700 million in tax cuts that go overwhelmingly to not just the top 1 but the top 0. 1 , so 700 billion in tax cuts for them. For 700 billion in cuts to medicaid. And that is the equivalent, essentially, of having the top 400 richest households in america, okay, the top 400 richest people in america, their tax cut is the equivalent to medicaid for arkansas, alaska, West Virginia and nevada combined. Is that a fair tradeoff in any way in your mind, mr. Cohen . So, i mean, look, whether its a fair tradeoff, thats a value judgment, right . Some people would say its fair, some people would say its not. But i think thats exactly the right way to think about this. And you know, we talk about health care, theres so many moving pieces. You were just talking with your guest about the mandate and the effects of the subsidies and where it all and theres some dispute over where you know, how this piece affects that piece and how many people are voluntarily dropping coverage or whatever. But the key thing to remember to pan out just like you did to say, look, this is taking a trillion dollars away from programs that help people pay their medical bills. Its coming out of medicaid. Its coming out of subsidies to help people buy private insurance. If you take that much money out of federal health care programs, a trillion dollars over ten years, one way or another you are telling millions of people they are not going to be able to pay their medical bills. Its just a reality. That is what we are looking at with this bill. And that is why this bill is so hard to pass because every time you look at it they tinker with the pieces, they move a little money here, they move a little money there, but at the end of the day there are millions of people who wont have Health Insurance, there are millions oof people who will have Health Insurance but will have even higher deductibles than today. You know, obamacares not perfect. Everybody admits that. It needs improvement in a lot of areas. But relative to what we have today, pass the senate bill, pass the house bill, you will have substantially more americans, in the millions, who will be struggling relative to today. Mr. Binion. Its faulty logic to say every dollar the federal government spends on Health Insurance is the only dollar that could help people. We know from 200 years of American History that the free market and Free Enterprise delivers the best products. Why would we take that out of the Health Care Market . Youre giving us theoreticals when were telling you if you take the absolute dollars that you spend to cover people with medicaid, to give People Insurance cards and you reduce that by a trillion, that if you i mean, in absolute dollars that means fewer people can be helped by the program. If you repeal the medicaid expansion, everyone who was added to medicaid because of the expansion comes off medicaid because the expansion isnt there. The theoreticals about the free market dont give People Health care. I want to come to it doesnt give People Health care for you to talk about the free market. Talk about the free market makes you feel good. It doesnt give people a medical card. The government wont solve all of our problems. Then why werent those people insured why werent those people insured under the free market before obamacare . More people will be insured if Health Insurance why werent those people insured under the free market system we had before obamacare . Many of them could have been and chose not to. They werent insured until the government forced them to be. Then were did they sign up . Youre saying people wouldnt have wanted the medicaid they wouldnt have taken med sxaid had an insurance card to go to the doctor if they it ends the expansion. No, it doesnt. No it does not. Okay. Thats actually not true. Lets come to Chris Metzler. Because what were doing i love talking with ali velshi about this. I wish he was here but hes having a life. And what he i think pointed out this week which was so important and i think so fundamental to this debate were having politically is that when we talk about health care we tend to lump everything in together. There really are two Health Care Markets. Theres the nongroup the three, the nongroup market. People who buy their own insurance, Small Business people, people who really a lot of times ive met dont like obamacare because for them some of their costs have gone up. In some regions, we have a map shows in a few regions i think 38 counties theres only one insurer. So in some cases nongroup people have suffered. That needs to be fixed. Thats about 10 Million People. Then youve got the bulk of americans who get their insurance the way i do, through your employer. Yeah. And they only benefitted from obamacare through important things like free mammograms, services they were able to get, keeping your kids on which my kids are still on my insurance. And then youve got this third group of about 72 Million People who are on medicaid. They are sort of the big elephant in the room because if you hurt them its such a much bigger market. Why dont republicans ever legislate for that group . Why is that group always getting punitive measures and that 10 million always getting catered to . Well, i think your analysis is absolutely right. If youre talking about im the ceo of a health care firm. And so for me the senate bill just simply does not address those issues. Im a free market guy. I believe in free markets. However, the discussion at this point is in fact very theoretical. When i see people walking into my urgent care who cannot afford insurance, thats the concern. As a Small Business we are also looking at reimbursements. The reimbursements simply are not high enough. For medicaid. For medicaid. Theyre not high enough. So i think if part of the reason this bill has not passed, this bill is not ready to go anywhere. Yeah. At this point. So you are because you are a republican. Yes. A Small Business owner and a free marketer, a free marketeer. Tell mr. Binion if you could because he has a theoretical idea about what would happen if you undid obamacare and youre living it in the real World Running a health care company. Yeah. In your view if you repealed obamacare in total what would happen . If you repealed obamacare in total, essentially what will happen, remember the auto bailouts, remember all of those kinds of things . Yeah. If you take it just completely off the table, then were going to end up having to bail out hospitals, emergency rooms, because thats where people are going to end up. Right. And so thats a part of the discussion. The debate within republican circles is you have the folks who are essentially saying you havent gone far enough with this bill. Right. Then you also have some conversation around, well, you know, we need to Work Together to get this done. So from my perspective, if in fact you were simply to take it off the table, youre going to have a lot of people. And from a straight political standpoint a lot of those people are going to be the president s supporters, the president s base. Yeah. Thats whats going to happen. I live this every day. So i cant have a theoretical conversation about this because i live this every day. Mr. Binion. Every american lives this every day. And what their personal experience with obamacare has been is that the cost of their Health Insurance premiums have gone up. You cannot speak for every american when you say that. Thats a blanket statement about the people that you know and you talk to. I just have somebody sitting here at the table whos in the health care business. Dont speak for all americans about whats happened. There are theres data that shows whats happened to costs. That its gone up. Insurance always goes up. Insurance premiums go up. Hello. Its what they do every year. Jonathan cohn, im going to give you the last word. Have you ever known a year in American History in your adult life when insurance premiums on an annual basis have gone down . No. I mean, look, there are winners and the cbo says this bill will make them go down. Maybe next year. No. For people that buy high deductible plans, the small tiny slice of the public who you only see. You dont see anyone else. The rest of the people are invisible to you because youre thinking about that wealthy affluent Business Owner who doesnt want to buy insurance for their employees. And yeah, maybe they hate obamacare. But what about everyone else . Im sorry. I was trying to give Jonathan Cohn the last word. Go ahead, jonathan. I was going to say there are winners and losers in all of these policies. There are certainly people under obamacare paying more, there are a lot of people paying less. And the key is what you said if you go to the senate bill, look what happens, the true premiums eventually come down but that is because the insurance covers less. If i told you i was going to trade your cadillac in for a bicycle, youd save money by, you know, paying for the bicycle, but that doesnt mean youve gotten a better product for going around. I have gone way over time, so im going to stop. Christopher mettsler will be back. Jonathan cohn and tommy binion, thank you for the spirited debate. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Coming up, trumps personal attorney might need some legal help of his own. Thats next. Tais really quite simple. Est it comes in the mail, you pull out the tube and you spit in it, which is something southern girls are taught youre not supposed to do. You seal it and send it back and then you wait for your results. Its that simple. With my moderate to severe crohns disease,. I kept looking for ways to manage my symptoms. I thought i was doing okay. Then it hit me. Managing was all i was doing. When i told my doctor,. I learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of moderate to severe crohns disease. Even after trying other medications. In clinical studies,. The majority of people on humira. Saw significant symptom relief. And many achieved remission. Humira can lower your ability. To fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened;. 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Thats why as i said no investigation whats the question . I mean, you stated some facts. First of all, youve now said he is being investigated after saying that you didnt no. You just said no, hes not being investigated. You just said hes being investigated. Exchanges like that one on sunday morning talk shows have transformed Donald Trumps personal attorney jay sekulow from fox news fixture to bona fide star in the reality show that is the trump presidency. Over the years sekulow built a media empire that fights for conservative causes. But according to the guardian the businesses are bankrolled in part by sekulows christian charity, case, christians against secular evangelism, and its affiliate the American Center for law and justice, qi doled out more than 60 million to sekulow, members of his family and their businesses. Both groups are now under scrutiny by the attorneys general of North Carolina and new york. Msnbc reached out to sekulow for comment but we did not hear back. But a spokesman for sekulow told the guardian the Financial Arrangements between the aclj, case and related entities are reviewed by independent compensation experts have been determined to be reasonable. Joining me are Charlie Pierce, writer at large for esquire magazine and frank schafer, author of the book why i am an atheist who believes in god. Thank you guys both for being here. Charlie, im going to start with you, though. There were some instructions the guardian was able to find for the telemarketers trying to raise money for the aclj, which sounds like the aclu, i think it was meant to, and what people would say to them if people didnt have the money. And its a little bit let me see if i can find one here. This is actually lets do some of the pitches. Five, this is cut five. Islamic extremists are headed in your direction and you are most likely the main target, sekulow himself told people in a recorded message used in fundraising calls during 2011. Telemarketers were instructed to tell people who initially said they could not donate that islamist extremists will succeed if we dont do something right away. If the person resisted the second time the script said to tell them it sounds like you really want to help. What do you make of this tactic . First of all, joy, youre very good at that. You could have a second career reading those. Will you send me money . Who knows . Look, from selling indulgences and saints heads to jim bakker and the 700 club to ralph reids weird connections to jack abramoff, christianity has always been a fine environment for eager entrepreneurs. But this bunch, i mean, thats a lot of dough theyre talking about. Yeah. And they seem to be pitching themselves at the elderly and the terrified, or the terrified elderly. And that i find not exactly consummate with the gospel. Not quite what jesus preached. No. Frank schafer, you come from this world. And im wondering why this is so effective. You think about the fact these are people making exorbitant sums of money. Lets just look at some of the family members. Mr. Sekulows brother gary, the c. O. O. And cfo of case, 2. 6 million for him. Adam sekulow, his nephew, 518,000. Logan sekulow, his son, 471,000. Jordan sekulow, his other son, 137,000 according to the Washington Post. And just overall out of 229 million raised by these organizations between 2011 to 2015 5. 5 million going to members of the family, 23 million to their firms. Why do people in the Christian Community not see this, notice this and why are they not offended by it . Well, joy, its part of the fallout of the culture wars. And they have decided that everyone is the enemy. Its the same with donald trump when he talks about any story that is against him is fake news. They assume when they hear things like this somehow this is the liberal media again saying things that are not true. They have built a system around themselves to guarantee only seeing one point of view. You have to understand my father Francis Schaefer was one of the founders of the religious right. And i met with Pat Robertson back in the days when jay sekulow was a kid hanging around, he had recently converted from judaism to christianity and he saw an opportunity to join 24 band of grifters, these folks who are essentially con artists. And it amazes me some 30 years later now that ive long been out of the movement, as you know, to see how these kind of people find out other. I mean, look, go figure, Pat Robertsons sidekick who started a bunch of legal foundations to essentially con evangelicals into sending money so he could save america from liberals now is the defense counsel for this con artist president who either is selling you bad steaks or a nonuniversity university, its just stunning how these guys belong together. It would all be sort of a sick joke on evangelical christians and the 81 of white evangelicals who voted for trump except for one thing, it shows such bad judgment on the part of this idiot president of ours that once again you really have to say do you know who you just hired . Was it someone you saw on fox for two minutes and liked because he was kissing up to you . Or do you know that he is just another ralph reed con man donald trump type himself . Hes like you, donald. Hes as much of a con man as you. Get yourself a real lawyer. Its interesting because there are a lot of similarities. I mean, you had donald trump, the brilliant work in the Washington Post of David Farenhold uncovering some of the scamming nature of some trump charities, and a legal times article in 2005 revealed that in 2001 one of sekulows nonprofit organizations paid 2. 3plus Million Dollars to purchase two homes that were used primarily by sekulow and his wife. The same nonprofit also subsidized a third home that he uses in North Carolina. And meanwhile, they were telling people, the telemarketers were telling people that sekulow actually works for people for free. The American Center for law and justice is basically the antiaclu and jay sekulow is the chief counsel of the American Center for law and justice. He never charges for services and he is our best shot at protecting our religious freedom in the nation today is one of the call sheets. They paid 21 million to nonprofit legal firms owned by jay sekulow. Your witness, charlie pearce. Oh, well, as i said, you know, i think what American Television christianity needs is a reformation. It needs some stickswinging prophets to go in there and explain to these people that you have moved far beyond your original mission. If you want to sell aluminum siding to people, go sell aluminum siding to people, but dont sell the gospel like its swampland in florida. Yeah. And i mean, frank, youve also seen jay sekulow and others delve into the seth rich conspiracy theory, doubting russia hacked our election. So hes getting into the politics of it too. Is there a way to break the evangelical community from this sort of right wing kind of world where whatever somebody like a jay sekulow says they will buy it and keep voting for the Donald Trumps. Back in the day, joy, when my dad was really along with c. Everett koop who game Ronald ReagansSurgeon General and me who produced a series of films called whatever happened to the human race, which started the evangelical antiabortion movement, we were concerned with real issues back in those days. But like that proverbial fraud that slowly gets boiled to death as you turn it up one degree an hour, the evangelicals have gone from being concerned with saving babies, and im not talking now about the prolife issue as an issue but just as an example to being concerned with carrying out the Koch Brothers agenda on Energy Policy because thats part of the big business that has taken over the republican party. Look, i have a handwritten note from Ronald Reagan lamenting my fathers death. I knew the bush family. I used to stay with jack kemp in washington. And whatever you used to say about Ronald Reagan or bush sr. Or jack kemp, they were idealists. In their own way. They were true politicians, statesmen. I disagree with a lot of the politics now as i look back, but these were not con artists who were starting nepotistic Family Businesses whether its called trump or jay sekulows ripoff of evangelicals or Pat Robertson who himself has become a billionaire with all his garbage on television talking about stopping hurricanes and all the rest. What hes really been doing is building an empire that wound up owning mining interests in apartheid south africa at one point. So youve got to understand these folks are grifters. Get it through your head. Donald trump is a grifter and he is in bed with other grifters. The trump children would understand the sekulow children perfectly as ivanka goes off to get a chinese patent on her product so she can sell them in china when no one else can get them. These folks are grifters. Forget politics. Ronald reagan would hate this whole crew. Richard nixon would hate this whole crew. They are taking the republican brand and destroying it. And someone who knew leading republicans in the 1980s though i consider myself a liberal now, im going to vote democrat, the fact is i come from that background. And these guys would be unrecognizable to those people. Yeah. Frank schaeffer, im going to have to have you come back. Thank you very much. And Charlie Pierce will come back in a little bit. Thank you both very much. Thank you. Up next, will the base of the Democratic Party get a seat at the table . Dont go away. Noo introducing the easiest way to get gillette blades text blades to gillette on demand text to reorder blades with gillette on demand. And get 3 off your first order and still have dry eye symptoms . Ready for some relief . Xiidra is the first and only eye drop approved for both the signs and symptoms of dry eye. One drop in each eye, twice a day. Common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. Dont touch container tip to your eye or any surface. Remove contacts before using xiidra and wait at least 15 minutes a i got a chance to sit down this week with tom perez, chairman of the dnc. That interview is next. Dont go anywhere. At johnsons we care about safety as much as you do. Thats why we meet or exceed 15 global regulations for baby products. And where standards differ, we always go with the toughest. Johnsons. At planters, we put fresh roawhich has its drawbacks. An, guys, know anything about this missing inventory . Wasnt me the cheeks dont lie, chet. Irresistibly planters. Everything i did circled smaround that cigarette when i started taking the chantix that urge just slowly diminished and it was a great and empowering feeling. Along with support, Chantix Varenicline is proven to help people quit smoking. Chantix reduced my urge to smoke. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. Serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be lifethreatening. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. Tell your Healthcare Provider if youve had depression or other Mental Health problems. Decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. Use caution when driving or operating machinery. The most common side effect is nausea. I dont even think about cigarettes anymore. Ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. Many insurance plans cover chantix for a low or 0 copay. Welcome back to a. M. Joy. Earlier this week i spoke with Democratic Party chair tom perez. We touched on the dncs efforts to reach out to women of color. Perez responded to a recent open letter penned by activists and leaders raising concerns about the dncs commitment to putting members of the partys most loyal base in leadership positions. Take a look. First of all, the letter was really important. And i agree with the basic premise which is that the Democratic Party has to up our game. We have to do a better job of addressing and including and engaging the africanamerican women community. And we havent done that in the past. And our goal is to win elections. And to win elections in ways that are consistent with our proud values of inclusion. So we had a very good conversation and it was the beginning, its not the end. And what we need to do were working together for instance there were a couple of ideas that were put forth, weve got elections coming up in virginia and new jersey, and we talked about how can we target opportunities there in some of the state races for state legislature where there may be africanamerican women running in those races and we can perhaps invest resources to help them win. Because thats exactly what were about. Were about winning elections. We talked also about what we have to do at the dnc to make sure everything we do from hiring to procurement to our engagement reflects our values of inclusion, opportunity, diversity and equity. And so im very appreciative both of the letter and of the conversation. And ill be the first to admit that we have more work to do. And joining me now to discuss that and more of our interview is political strategist l. Joy williams and glenda carr, cofounder of Higher Heights for america. L. Joy, im going to start with you. The fearsome l. Joy williams at the table with me. The letter that was written, it comes off the fact when you look at president ial elections, well just look at the last one, africanamerican women are far and away the most loyal constituency of the Democratic Party. Black women went 89 or africanamericans totally went 89, 8 for trump, but black women were like 94 for hillary clinton. In the meeting that you had with tom perez, did you get the sense that perez and the dnc now understand the gravity of the situation . Well, we had a meeting. And, you know, like the chairman said, its the beginning of the process. And our beginning of the process was actually raising our voices, you know, which i said on the show before. Closed mouths dont get fed. And we will continue to raise our voices until the party gets it right. And so in this meeting this week it was the beginning, i think theyve taken the first initial step, which is recognizing that they have a problem. I dont get the sense that they understand yet the complexity and the depth of the problem, but i think they will very soon. Yeah. I mean, glen da, one of the sort of glaring things that came out of the dnc race not only that tom perez won and he was the establishment choice, he was the person that the sort of writ large establishment preferred and of course he won. But also black women did not wind up in the leadership at least that we could see. Theyre saying they have a c. O. O. I think whos a black woman. But the key staff positions did not go to black women. Do you get the sense that the party understands that that might have been a mistake . Well, i have to say one, you know, we thank the chairman for sitting down. I mean, literally, joy ann, women who signed that letter from across the country came to the meeting to show the importance. Women flew from california, from mississippi. 31 black women signed that letter. 24 of them attended the meeting about the sense of urgency. So he is fairly new into leadership. This is the first time in decades that weve had this much change in leadership at the top of the dnc. He has started hiring there are black women in leadership. You know, our concern as we move forward is integrating a real conversation about black womens leadership across the board, both in elected office he still has some appointment opportunities and he has some hiring opportunities. The party spent over 1. 8 billion in this last election cycle. So the question about if were going to truly value black women and center them in a pathway forward, its the investment in ensuring that we have hired black women that have strategic and Decisionmaking Authority to have seats at the table. Its not just about having black women having black men stake, its about having their leadership value their input one as a member of elected staff, as a member of elected leadership. And more importantly to whom that they are responsible for which are the members of the party across this country. L joy, you are a strategist among other great things and, you know, one of the things that is very glaring if you work in Democratic Politics is how white and male, particularly at the consultant level, the people with the money, when you give your money to a candidate a lot of that money goes into the hands of consultants who make money quite frankly selling tv ads. Those people at that level are very white and male. The people who make decisions about how the campaigns direction will go also very white and male. How does one change that in a party whose constituency is so black and female . Yeah, we call them blue shirts. So from a Campaign Perspective just to give a little dig in the weeds, youre correct. What happens is the larger contract sort of that number that glinda mentioned, the millions of dollars that are spent in the Campaign Cycle go to these larger firms that are mainly male, mainly white. And eventually things will trickle down to people of color in pieces. The pieces are usually go out in the field in october pieces and well give you 5,000 or 10,000 here. Get us in the church piece. Get us in the church piece or whatever from here. Or piece off. Its not just individual consultants but its institutions as well because how much you spend in terms of black media on advertising as well. So if you have a deep investment in your base of voters for africanamericans and africanamerican women, how much money are you spending in ads on our media and investing that way, which helps build our institutions which also then creates jobs. So at the foundation the Democratic Party has to embody the values it says it wants the country to have. So if you say you want an inclusive country, you say you want a diverse country, if it says that you want to see people of color, women and children invested in and supported, then the party needs to demonstrate that in how they operate at the very base level from everyone who opens the door when you arrive to the contracts and the messaging that you send. Yeah. And, you know, glynda, we had this conversation about the Democratic Party both because it is the choice out of nine of ten africanamericans, but also because in some ways it feels like sort of the only way to go because the republican partys messaging has been quite different. And i think for a lot of africanamericans has felt sort of, you know, hostile, right . At least at particularly in this last election cycle. So youre talking about the Democratic Party, but even if you get outside of the parties, is there from what youve been able to tell a National Infrastructure to do a massive Voter Registration and Voter Protection campaign . Because we know that also disproportionately affects black women and africanamericans in general. I think we all agree that we need to strengthen the infrastructure across this country. Ultimately black women are the foundation to any winning coalition. Currently, you know, as you mentioned joy ann that black women overwhelmingly are registered and vote democratic, but we are the foundation to any winning coalition. And currently that foundation is cracking. And for me thats concerning because black women when i woke up on november 9th continued to vote to move this country forward. In addition, in a time when progressives lost at the top of the ticket to the bottom of the ticket black women on the ballot broke through. We elected the largest number of black women in congress. And as you know in this politically toxic time, many of those women like u. S. Senator Kamala Harris and representative Maxine Waters and the 20 black women that serve in congress are the conscience of this country and are holding the values of their constituency and putting forth progressive values and progressive messaging and progressive leadership. So we need to invest in what is the quickest and the most valued return on investment that you can see, which is insuring that black womens voices are heard from the voting booth to elected office. So we need to build infrastructures outside of the party. There are many groups like Higher Heights and collective pac and many of the other growing organizations like color change that are doing that work on the ground. But the investments need to be deeper and longer so we can connect with every black woman and family across this country. Yep. Democrats are sort of looking for wins, a lot of black women won on that 2016 ballot. If youre looking for something to feel good about if youre a democrat and think we lost everything. Oh, my god, everything is lost, everything is destroyed. No, there were a couple things. L joy williams will be back. Thank you, glynda carr. Appreciate it. And you can watch the full interview with tom perez on our facebook page. At amjoyshow. Still to come, return of who won the week. More am joy after the break. This is a story about mail and packages. And its also a story about people. People who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams theyre handing us more than mail theyre handing us their business and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you but we mean so much more. We mean how can we help . We mean what can we do . We mean its our turn. 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That was the best one ever giving you the strength and energy, to get back to doing what you love. And finish from the number one doctor recommended brand. Ensure, always be you. Coming up, an oldie but goodie. My panel and i will share our thoughts on who won the week. More am joy after the break. vo whats your dog foods first ingredient . Corn . Wheat . In new purina one true instinct grain free with beef, real beef is number one. No corn, wheat or soy. Support your dogs whole body health with purina one. You on a perfect car,rch then smash it into a tree. Your Insurance Company raises your rates. Maybe you shouldve done more research on them. For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise your rates due to your first accident. Liberty mutual insurance. Whats going on . Oh hey thats it . Yeah. Everybody two seconds dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance. Through the Tuition Assistance program, every day mcdonalds helps more people go to college. Its part of our commitment to being americas best first job. Joy williams and Chris Metzler are going to tell me who won the week. Grown hiphop fans won the week. No they didnt. Why . We won the week because we have a new album to listen to. That we cant get our hands on because we dont have title. Why you aint got title . Because im slow. Okay. So grown hiphop, i would say won the week because we have something new to listen to. Do you remember the anticipation of a new album coming out and wait and see. So it is too soon to do a deep analysis of each of the lyrics. Were talking jayz of course. Right. But just the appreciation to be excited about a release and be able to listen to it and not and just embrace the growth that an artist has and then the growth of the culture over all. Absolutely. So i would say that we won the week because we got something new for the holiday weekend. Props to jayz. Ly get title, i promise. Just businey. A big fan. Chris who won the week . The American People won the week. In large part because of the Health Care Disaster bill was not slammed down our throat. So the person people won the the American People won the opportunity to have more reasoned discussion. Isnt it interesting that everyone sort of fumes about Donald Trumps erratic whacky tweeting but in a way hes sort of saving the republic. Because hes preventing his party from doing anything. Lets go to Charlie Pierson that note. Im not going there. You have to earn a living. Charlie pierce, you dont have to earn a living. Youre a writing. That is true. Im independently wealthy and i like the anticipation of an al bum and i could [ inaudible ]. You know who won the week. Congresswoman barbara lee won the week because she managed to get the repeal for the authorization of military force voted on in 2001 through the House Appropriations committee which means well have a debate in the congress about whether or not we want to be at war for the foreseeable future. And she has fought a long and lonely fight on this. She has. And not only did she get it passed, but she got spontaneous applause. See what happens when black women lead. It is amazing. We should be debating whether we go to war. And barbara lee is a great choice. Brian careham who is the washington correspondent for play boy did something that ive been waiting for journalists to do in the Briefing Room and this is what he did and how he did it. You are implying to everybody right now and with those words this administration has done that as well, why in the name of heches, any one of us are replace if we dont get it right the audience has the opportunity to turn the children or not read us. You have been elected to serve for four years there is no option other than that. Were here to ask you questions. Right. Youre here to provide the answers and what you just does is inflammatory to people all over the country who look at it and say see once again the president is right and everybody out here is fake media and everybody in this room is trying to do their job. I disagree completely. If anything has been inflamed, it is the dishonesty that often takes place by the news media. Charlie pierce was a vicarious and thrilling moment for every journalist in america. It absolutely was. And the better part of it for me was watching Sarah Huckabee sanders flub dub her way in the general direction of an answer. She never quite got there. She never wins the week. A long slog for what was semi recognizable english. I cant wait until her saturday night profile is flushed out and she gets a proper send up and then props to Serena Williams who had the cover of vanity fair and it is interesting, vanity fair, and things like teen vogue, alternative places of getting hard news are actually winning. Yeah. I actually love this and embrace it as a young person being able to have magazine that sort of gave me the information that i needed that was relevant to what was going on in the world so our critical sources sort of back then. And so i actually enjoy it. I have inturns in my office now who are saying they are reading and seeing this stuff and it connects cot work they want to see and the things they want to do in their studies and that they want to see that the brands that they support are doing. So they are connecting it to their pocket book. And chris, can this reach republicans in these sort of nonstraight news outlets, can it ever penetrate . No. [ laughter ] this is why i love chris. Because he does not mince words. Words dont get mince. You won the week with that powder blue suit. Suits win the week. Thank you to l joy williams and Charlie Pierce and next time you could laugh with us. Join us tomorrow at 10 00 a. M. Eastern for more am joy. That guy karm will be on us, well have the angry reporter right here on msnbc. Bye. Remote moisture sensors use a Reliable Network to tell them when and where to water. So that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. China. Oh. He got there. Thats the power of and. Having mplaque psoriasise is not always easy. Its a longdistance run. And you have the determination to keep going. Humira has a proven track record of being prescribed for nearly 10 years. Humira works inside the body to target and help block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. In clinical trials, most adults taking humira were clear or almost clear and many saw 75 and even 90 clearance in just four months. 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And thats for the obvious reason. On weekends, people are not as plugged in. So weekends in general have always been seen by politicians, public figures, corporations, as a very convenient repository for