Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20210115

And they were screaming out, kill him with his own gun. Good god. A firsthand account of one of the officers account of last weeks insurrection at the capitol. Lets first stop here and say good morning. Happy friday. Happy january 15th. And thats the last happy news we have today. Thats it. Because lets just tick through a couple things we have heard the past couple days. One, willie, we heard that officer say, kill him with his own gun. We now know that members who voted to impeach donald trump, republican members, now are running in fear for their lives. And, by the way, thats a constitutional remedy. Its in the United States constitution, the impeachment of a president. And you have Lindsey Graham, poor, poor, lindsey. He said im done with this. And then he gets chased through the airport by a couple of qanon people. And then suddenly hes like im back in this. And hes flying on airplanes with donald trump. And yesterday he said the most remarkable thing. He said if the senate went through with their constitutional duty to have a trial of donald trump that they could face violence, that america could face violence. And further insurrection. So this is the Republican Party of donald trump and of Lindsey Graham, and of those 150 or 160 people who voted to overturn the election. It is a party that is well, its what we read about hitler. He had his brown shirts, those who would go around committing acts of violence. Mussolini did it when they took over italy. They would take over government buildings and commit acts of violence and they would intimidate people through violence. I remember back in the days when i was in politics, you would intimidate opponents with a big war chest. By going out and raising money. Now donald trump and Lindsey Graham and this Republican Party, they are intimidating their opponents with violence, with threats of death, with storming the capitol, with killing Police Officers. Willie, this is Donald Trumps party. And right now, if you look at the polls, the majority of republicans remain with this fascist president. Yeah, they do. A majority of them do. And a large portion would nominate him again if he decides to run in 2024, after what weve seen. Im glad the officers, like the one we just saw in a cnn interview. That was michael finone, d. C. Metro Police Officer. He has four daughters. Im glad they came out and began to tell their stories. As bad and horrifying as that looked two wednesdays ago on television, it was much, much worse. With each new account we learn how bad it was. He talked about being dragged down the steps near the west front and west terrace. And then them talking about taking his own gun and killing him with it. He drifted in and out of consciousness. He had a mild attack. Hes okay, as you can see him talking in that interview yesterday. All these people who for years and years and years talk about backing the blue, supporting the Police Officers, do you support what you saw in that story from the officer in d. C. . Do you support what were hearing from the Capitol Police officers . Do you support the people who are in that building literally saving the country . Its not an overstatement to say officers like eugene goodman, the black officer who led the mob away from the speakers lobly, perhaps saving the lives of our leadership. They stood in the door of democracy and saved the democracy. Its not an overstatement. Some described it as a medieval battle scene. Its painful but its the truth about what happened inside that building. Donald Trump Supporters who have been claiming to be champions of law and order, committing riots, killing Police Officers. Donald Trump Supporters claiming that they were champions of the blue. Beating up and trying to kill as many officers as they could get their hands on. Donald Trump Supporters who were upset because Colin Kaepernick did not show sufficient respect for the American Flag beat up Police Officers with an American Flag. Ripped an American Flag down and used it as a weapon. And, mika, this is not just what happened a week or two ago. This is Lindsey Graham, a guy who was going to be chairman of the Judiciary Committee, warning democrats if you move forward and have a hearing on impeachment, you will cause violence in the country. So, again, let me just state, this is a constitutional remedy that our Founding Fathers put into the United States constitution so the legislative branch could check the excesses of the executive branch. You have a president who fomented violence and pushed for insurrection. And even Mitch Mcconnell knows, the wall street journal opinion page knows these were impeachable offenses that donald trump committed last week. So whether you think its the right thing to do politically or not, it is the constitutional thing. It is a constitutional remedy. And to threaten your opponents with violence if they go through with that shows you this isnt something we can look at in the rearview mirror. This isnt a time for unity and for whatever else these seditionists are saying. They have to clean up their act first. They need to step forward. They need to repent for their sins against the constitution of the United States. They need to repent for committing in seditious acts. They need to repent for stirring up millions of people who believed because of their lies, because of their votes, that this election was rigsed. When Donald Trumps own appointed federal justices say, no, its not. You have absolutely no evidence of that at all. So if Lindsey Graham and other republicans need more evidence of just how bad this was, the stories do keep pouring out. Cell phone video and audio of how violent this attack was. The other thing thats happening is more and more arrests. If you had a cell phone in there and you were rioting the capitol, your phone is being tracked, and you will be tracked down. So theres two tracks here of understanding just how bad this was and what the consequences will be. Along with joe, willie and me, we have Pulitzer Prize winning columnist and associate editor of the Washington Post and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. Ceo of the messina group, jim messina. He served as deputy chief of staff to president obama. And senior Political Correspondent for the Washington Examiner David Drucker joins us, a contributing writer at vanity fair. Its great to have you all on board this morning. Lets go. Following last weeks violence at the u. S. Capitol, some democratic lawmakers continue to voice concern that some of their republican colleagues may be endangering their lives. Democratic congressman don byer said it is the most poisonous ive ever seen. Theres overall sense that maybe if some of them have likely the ones who are into conspiracy theories and qanon with the pedophilia satanic rings, are we safe from them . And remember we have a pandemic happening. Some republican lawmakers, joe, are also voicing concern about possible threats. When it comes to my familys safety, thats something that weve been planning for, preparing for, taking appropriate measures. I have colleagues who are traveling with armed escorts out of fear for their safety. Many of us are altering our routines, working to get body armour, which is a reimbursable purchase we can make. Its sad we have to get to that point. Our expectation is that someone may try to kill us. You know, David Drucker, yesterday, i was talking about how these members of congress should respond about making of a vote of impeachment that was unpopular. Back in my day i would hold a lot of townhall meetings and we would agree to disagree or they would understand at least my point of view and work through it all. In this case, this guy cant even, like, spend the night in his house or leave his house because trump mobs might kill him. Yeah. You know, joe, its not even just the Impeachment Vote. Last week, after the insurrection at the capitol, i was talking to a republican member of congress who voted to affirm bidens electoral victory, a vote that is usually just pro forma. We never cover it. Every four years nobody pays attention because its just part of the process. Its not to actually try to formally decide the election or throw it out. This republican was telling me if from that vote alone there were Death Threats, Police Escorts after landing in his home district. And that there were searches of his house. And so this is before the vote to impeach the president this week. And i think it tells us especially with these new videos and new pieces of information coming out about what happened last week on capitol hill just how serious a problem there is that is ongoing. And i think from some republicans what you have seen is an attempt to treat it as a normal political matter and dismiss it. Or at least say, look, its the same thing that has been going on from the other side. And you see other republicans take the Impeachment Vote or say that they would be willing to convict and remove the president if there was a trial in the senate. And then youve got this wiggle room in the middle where you have some republicans, and i think we saw that from Kevin Mccarthy with his speech, who discussed the idea that the president was responsible. The president should be censured but that we dont want to impeach. We dont want to remove. But what he did was wrong. They are trying to straddle both sides of the fence by acknowledging how serious and dangerous it was, but not want to take the ultimate remedy into their hands and use it. I think what republicans will have to figure out Going Forward is exactly what is their view of what happened. How serious was it. How responsible was donald trump versus the people that listened to him after two months of being told the election was stolen. And what do they plan to do about it in the months ahead if, as we think, this president isnt going to be a normal expresident , retire, play golf, build a library and not be heard from for a couple of years. Well, willie, they have certainly a road map. James lankford, a good man. A conservative. A republican. Somebody i was shocked he was going to vote against the certification of the vote. He went back to his district and hes apologizing now to black members in tulsa for what he did. And said he had a blind spot. He didnt recognize the focus was discounting black votes. People cant believe that or not believe that. Of course im not going to agree with everything James Lankford did when donald trump was the president of the United States. You follow James Lankford who apologized to people in his district, apologized for what he did and is trying to move on. With Kevin Mccarthy, you have Kevin Mccarthy is a guy who actually supported basically 2020 version of jim crow laws for voting. The Republican Party of Kevin Mccarthy is the party of modern day jim crow. And his problem is, and these republicans problem i mean, what what corporation on k street is going to ever give them a dime again . Who is going to ever give a dime to a party whose supporters resort to violence to kill Police Officers and to lodge Death Threats against members because they dont like how they vote on certifying elections . Or they dont like how they vote in impeachment . And people may say, oh, youre talking about k street money. Well, thats how Kevin Mccarthy lives. Thats his political life. Thats Mitch Mcconnells political life. And make no mistake of it, every one of these corporations, a lot of corporations are backing out of contributing, willie. Its because they dont want to contribute to a Political Party thats resorted to fascist tactics to intimidate their opponents. When Lindsey Graham says if the senate does its constitutional duty and picks up the articles of impeachment from the house, there will be violence. Thats something that hitler or mussolini would say. Well, and what you have is people, some people backing away slowly after what they saw on wednesday from things they have been saying for two months. The problem is the damage is done. They have given credence and support to the lie that this election was stolen from donald trump when again and again and again officials, republicans across the country, secretaries of state, governors, courts have told us that there was no irregularity in this election. But the lie has been sold. The damage is done. The capitol was attacked, gene robinson. And now were left with a situation where you have members, republicans and democrats, telling us on tv and in interviews and print, they dont feel safe inside the capitol. And why . Yeah. You have a member of a qanon supporter and fans the flame of what happened two wednesdays again, holding a rifle, semiautomatic rifle next to photo shopped picture of aoc and talib and omar and saying its time to go on offense. And then some of them wont walk through the metal detectors. So what are the members supposed to feel about their safety in the capitol . Its a stunning place to be in our country when members of congress dont feel safe walking through the halls of congress. I mean, its incredible. The only parallel you can think of in American History would be the years right before the civil war. And thats, you know, whenever thats the only parallel you can think of when was it congressman sumner within an inch of his life on the floor of the house in a particularly acrimonious debate. If thats where we are now, and thats the only parallel you can think of, its a very, very bad place to be. Were talking about Kevin Mccarthy a few minutes ago, his problem is Kevin Mccarthy. And his sort of weaselness. The fact that even after the coup attempt last wednesday, he came back in the chamber and voted to throw out the results of the election. He voted to overturn the election. And republicans did not do, at least most of them did not do that night and did not do again during the impeachment debate and should have done is repudiate the big lie. They all know its a lie. They all know there was no voter fraud. They all know there were no irregularities in the election. They continue with the lie and they ginned up the fascist mob. They are as guilty of that morally, if not legally, as guilty of that as donald trump is. They really are. Yeah. Every member who voted is responsible for that mob who voted to discount the election. Who followed the lies. Who promoted the lies. So jim messina, help me out here. I asked a question yesterday. It was just sort of playing devils advocate. It happened in law school. I thought ill ask it. Should biden ask the republicans to drop the impeachment. Boy, that didnt go over well. Ill try more carefully today. Jim, you understand this. Weve got to move forward. Weve got to figure out a way to move forward. And i look at these Death Threats and, believe you me, i understand the Death Threats. Donald trump accused me of being a murderer 12 times, it got on qanon. And the Death Threats keep coming in. We understand that. That said, weve got to move forward. Weve got to figure out a way to move forward. I brought up James Lankford this morning. Yes, i could list a thousand things he did the past four years that disappointing me. But James Lankford said i was wrong. Do we try to say, okay, okay, theres a republican that we can talk to and maybe try to work with. And we have liz cheney over there. And here are three members who said they were going to vote in the senate to disqualify the votes. How do we cobble together a working coalition while keeping those republicans who remain seditious, who continue to spread the lies. Because willies right. He said the lie has been told. The damage has been done. Yes, it has. But you know what, tomorrow is another day. Weve got to find a way to move forward. And its one of the things i said about bill clinton. You can impeach him on tuesday. He would invite you to go golfing on wednesday. I know this is far more extreme. I dont need lectures for anybody again. We have 24hour security because our lives are constantly being threatened. Okay. I get that. But we have a democracy to run. We have a Constitutional Republic to run. Jim, how do we sort through this and pull people off that island one at a time that we can pull off the island and bring them back into the mainstream of political our political world . Well, first, joe, i saw the show yesterday, and i know you got yourself in lots of trouble at home. So i hope everything is okay. Yeah. That was rough. Hes fine. Thats good, mika. First, going back this is going to sound incredibly ironic who ran a campaign against him and happily beat him. But i go back to what mitt romney said last week. You start by telling the truth. There is no conspiracy. The election wasnt stolen. There is no lizard people in qanon. None of that stuff is true. And the Republican Party has an absolute responsibility to start by doing that. And the second question, joe, is to your question, what do you do next . The United States senate has to walk and chew gum at the same time. They cannot just make this go away and say, house, you did this thing and were going to do this thing. They have to make sure people are held responsible, including the soon to be former president of the United States. They have to say to the republicans, weve got to move forward. What did the election teach us . Where you unseat a sitting president but republicans picked up seats, was that the country wants taos Work Together. On some things like infrastructure, and covid we can we can do that. We have to continue to move forward as we hold this guy accountable. One more thing, joe. As you said, i was deputy chief of staff for operations. Every month the fbi would come in and give us a threat assessment. The risks to obama, to biden, to senior members of congress. And he was the first black president. It was much bigger than anyone had seen before. In talking to the field now, the threat assessment for members of congress is sky rocketing. There really is this threat you were just talking about to a bunch of people, including members of congress, including people like you. And the way we start to deal with that is take some of the air out of this. Work together. Start showing people we can get things done and start calling out people who are openly lying to members of congress. It starts with people like mitt romney and now lankford in telling the truth. You know, i love this. I love this sign. By the way, law class is over. Im done, jim messina. I think they can do two things at once. So now take a breath, everybody. I love this line. You start by telling the truth. Its a wonderful line. James lankford apologized and understood the racial overtones to what he did and went to members of the Tulsa Community and apologized. Okay. So how wonderful would it be, and i think the Lincoln Project, we will have Steve Schmidt on later on. They should draw up a simple list. A contract with america. 10 simple things people can understand. I think you just list like five things. And you force people in the press force every member of congress to answer the question. Number one, i dont have all five. I dont know what they are. The first one would be do you believe that there was not widespread fraud in the election or however you lay it out. Where the facts that have been confirmed by courts across america, that you could take judicial notice of in federal courts across america. You know, that. And go down the list of things. The qanon conspiracy theories. Do you believe there is a Conspiracy Theory. Maybe we put this as number five. There are leftists who have child abduction rings across the world. I dont know what those four or five questions are. Its very simple, to the point. Its a return to truth. And it cant let people like Kevin Mccarthy worm his way out of it and try to have things both ways. You know who is not having things both ways right now, liz cheney. You know why . Liz took a stand. Do you think its going to be easy for liz . No, not going to be easy for liz. Not going to be easy for her. But she took a stand. Shes not trying to have it both ways. Yep. So shes facing the heat. You know what you call that . You call that a leader. I used to know a lot of leaders. I knew a lot of people on the democratic and republican side who would take unpopular stands. And they slept better at night because of it. Thats what a leader looks like. Kevin mccarthy is trying to have it both ways. Kev, kev, heres the deal, buddy. Corporations are never going to give you money because you lead the caucus of sedition inside the Republican Party. Thats what you lead. Liz cheney leads a smaller wing of the party you right now but i suspect it will grow. We know that 50, 60 people would have voted with liz if they had the courage to do it publicly yeah. She controls the part of the party that doesnt have ties with american fascism and doesnt have ties with sedition. Youre going to have to get right, youre going to have to tell the truth, and youre going to have to start having it both ways. Leadership like parenting, you cant equivocate at all. Those five questions, joe, would be great. But right now we have impeachment. And lawmakers are being given a choice on which side they stand on. And that will be in history forever. Still ahead on morning joe, we are learning more and more about arrests after last weeks capitol riot. But what exactly are the legal ramifications of the violence we saw . Well talk about that. Plus, president elect joe biden unveils a new 1. 9 trillion Coronavirus Relief package and more. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Well be right back. quiet piano music comfort in the extreme. The lincoln family of luxury suvs. My body is truly powerful. I have the power to lower my a1c. Because my body can still make its own insulin. And trulicity activates my body to release it, lowering my blood sugar from the first dose. Onceweekly trulicity responds when my body needs it, 24 7. Trulicity is for type 2 diabetes. Its not insulin. It isnt for people with type 1 diabetes. Dont take trulicity if youre allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, changes in vision, or diabetic retinopathy. Serious side effects may include pancreatitis. 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St. Louis lawyer Albert Watkins said in an interview that President Trump invited Jacob Chansley known as the shaman to walk with him down to the capitol on january 6th. He like a lot of other disenfranchised people in our country felt very, very, very solidly in sync with President Trump. They felt he felt like his voice was for the first time being heard. He loved trump every word. He listened to him. He felt like he was answering the call of our president. Chansley was indicted by a federal grand jury on six counts, including violent entry and Disorderly Conduct on capitol grounds. Watkins said his client did not participate in acts that killed a Police Officer. State attorney for dave aaronburg. Good to see you. Not just in this case but more broadly, what legal exposure do you think President Trump has here in terms of inciting the riot not just on that day as he called for those people to go to the capitol but in the weeks that led up to it, saying its going to be wild on january 6th. Good morning, willie. That qanon shaman is the man eating organic food while being held. Someone should tell him there is no whole foods in federal prison. As for the president s conduct, the key to establishing insraoeuplt charge is to develop evidence on intent. And the president s speech that day was not appropriate, just like his call to ukraine was not a perfect call. The key, though, is to show his state of mind. You can do that by showing his actions before and after his speech. Is it true, as senator ben sasse says, the president was delighted watching the riots. You can subpoena the internal communications of the white house to see if they knew that some of the people who came to the rally were there to commit violence. Also, it is some evidence of trumps state of mind that hours after the riot finally he took to the airwaves and told his supporters to go home. But even then he called them very special people and that he loved them. They like to start with low hanging fruit fortress pass, stealing federal property, and getting people to flip and developing charges against the leader of the insurrection. It is prosecution 101. Sedition, which is a serious charge, requires proof of coordination. When it has been charged by prosecutors, it hasnt been that successful. So you can see why prosecutors want to be thorough rather than fast. So let me ask you this, dave. What if somebody inside the white house, if theres any evidence that maybe people in the white house talked to some of these leaders. Im not saying he did it. Im just saying the name of somebody who would. You know, Steven Miller. Lets say Steven Miller talked about where people needed to go or somebody else in the white house had communication with any of these insurrection leaders. Would that follow back to donald trump . It would have to be trump himself who would have to have the communication to be charged with a crime like seditious conspiracy. And it looks like there are members of congress who could be investigated for that. You saw reports that members of congress were taking some of these individuals on a tour of congress to show them where things were located in the capitol. You had Lauren Bobert who tweeted this is 1776. And later during the riot actually gave out information relating to speaker pelosis whereabouts. Thats the kind of thing that could get you a charge of conspiracy to commit sedition. Whether its Stephen Miller or the congressman, you have to have more than people cheering from the sidelines. You need to have more than encouragement. You need an agreement with one or more people who are intent in committing a forceful act to stop the count. It will be up to the future attorney general to make those decisions. Gene robinson is with us and has a question for you. Gene . Dave, my question is back in watergate, deep throat never actually said follow the money. But i assume the fbi is trying to follow the money. What kind of exposure would somebody have if they, for example, financed the travel to washington or the lodgings for some of the people who then committed this seditious and treasonous act. What sort of trouble could that land them in . Eugene to, commit the crime of conspiracy to commit sedition, you have to have an agreement. It cant be just i, hey, you spent money to bust people for a rally. Youve got to agree with one or more people that theyre going to act with force to shutter all of them. Its a high bar. You can try to chase the money and see if someone knew what was going on. If they knew there would be these acts of violence. I would expect the people who paid for them wanted to let them loose. That would not be enough for a crime of sedition. I think this also gets back to the era of impunity in the Trump Administration. Actions have not had consequences up to now. He was acquitted in the senate but did not learn his lesson. Thats why these people think they could have gone away with it, they could get a pardon if necessary. I dont think thats coming. I think prosecutors need to show the era of impaoupt is over and acts of she diction will get you a pair of handcuffs. Its not finger pointing to say President Trump in cited the crowd that tacked the capitol that day. All you have to do is listen to the voices. They are all over the internet. They are compiled by journalists. They are all over the place. The president sent us to storm this hill. Whether or not President Trump actually believes that he was not inciting, the people who were listening, they certainly believe he was. They do. And, willie, i think its important to understand that it wasnt the january 6th rally alone, the president s comments, the comments of his supporters that day that are really the fuel for all of this. And im not even sure that i appreciated it as it was happening. But when you spend two months saying an election was stolen after spending four years saying that a system is rigged, then eventually somebody might believe you. And imagine this, right. So imagine were sitting here. Imagine if we all thought that a president ial election was stolen. That the candidate that won is not about to be inaugurated because of criminal and nefarious actors who stole our post on a nationwide basis. Never mind one state or one county where we are quibbling about election irregularities. The charge has been and it got more aggressive as time went on that the election was stolen. And then imagine that somebody says, actually, even though this never happens, did you know congress and the Vice President have it within their constitutional power to fix this . Maybe we have never seen it happen before. Its this procedure. Its allowed. And if they have courage, theyll do it. Well, these are the sorts of things that build up over time that people made them react to. And its not to let anybody off the hook or to blame everybody equally. But it is to say we have been in this political atmosphere where maybe you get used to President Trump, and he talks a certain way and acts a certain way. But eventually voters may get very upset about this. And one thing i did notice postelection, is people believed it was out right stolen were not limited to a fringe conspiracy minority. I was talking to all sorts of voters. I was talking to family members, people friends of mine in d. C. , we were having the same conversation. I tried to explain to my inlaws, family members, it wasnt stolen. Senate republicans still have a chance to hold a majority. And nobody wanted to hear it. They believed this was stolen. So when you have this combustible atmosphere, we had never seen Something Like this before. But its no wonder actually that something happened. All right. Dave, thank you so much for being on this morning. Coming up, the theme for joe bidens inauguration is america united. We will be joined by a member of bidens inaugural committee to discuss how next week is expected to reflect his commitment to unifying the country. Morning joe will be right back. Morning joe will be right back Research Shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. So to help you remember that Liberty Mutual customizes your Home Insurance, heres one thatll really take you back. Wow whatd you get, ryan . Its customized Home Insurance from Liberty Mutual what does it do bud . 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Ahead of Inauguration Day with at least 20,000 members of the National Guard set to be deployed at the nations capitol. Law enforcement authorities have said extremists might use firearms and explosives with online calls to rally in cities across the country starting on sunday. Joining us now director of talent and external relations for the Biden Inaugural committee, adrian elrod. First of all, securities concerns and given the fact that the city has to be locked down and safe and given the fact that the capitol was rioted just a week ago, it will look different, wont it . Oh, absolutely, mika. Look, you have to keep in mind that there have been security teams working on this inauguration for over a year, well before anybody knew who the president elect was going to be. The United States secret service we have the full faith and confidence in the security teams working on this that this will be the safest inauguration we have ever seen. So who will be some of the performers and the speakers and actually how will it be executed given the security concerns . Well, mika, as you know, i came on the show a couple weeks ago and talked about the fact that this is going to be a largely Virtual Event where you can watch everything we are doing from the threeday period from the comfort of your home, in your pajamas if you want to. We have put together a threeday slate of incredible events. You can see a full list of all the events. We Just Announced 10 minutes ago, mika, we are holding a concert called celebrating america. Tom hanks will host. Bruce springsteen will be performing. Eva longoria, justin timberlake. We have an amazing slate of performers. John legend. But at the same time were going to be honoring some of those american everyday heroes you dont always see making the headlines but have been on the front line of this pandemic, keeping people safe, putting their own lives at risk to administer vaccinations and treat patients with covid. We will be highlighting everyday heroes and their resiliency and the fact that they kept this country going as part of this threeday period. All right. Gene robinson has the next question. Gene . Adrienne, how big an actual crowd, inperson crowd do we expect for the inauguration . Has a final decision been made to essentially close the National Mall to the general public . And will it be basically be invited dignitaries . Who is going to be there . Well, good morning, gene. Great to see you. And excellent question. So glad you asked that. You know, we have been saying all along that we want to make sure the footprint in washington is very, very minimal. Were in the middle of a pandemic. We certainly dont want to create a superspreader event. Making sure the American People safe is a priority of the president elect since the beginning of this pandemic during his campaign. So we will have a very small footprint at the capitol where he will be sworn in. You will see members of congress. You will see, you know, members of his family, the supreme court, some other key members of the incoming bidenharris white house. It will be a very small footprint. As you probably also saw, gene, lady gaga will give the national anthem. Jennifer lopez will be performing. All of this can be seen on television. They will be carrying events throughout the day. The concert we Just Announced this morning celebrating america will be covering that starting at 8 30 Eastern Standard Time on january 20th. So im telling you, you dont want to be anywhere else but your home january 20th. Thats the best place to watch all of these inaugural festivities. Washington examiner David Drucker is with us. He has a question for you. Hey, david. Good to see you, adrienne. Normally there is a sort of tradition about the president elects movements where the president elect will arrive at the white house. Will move from the white house with the outgoing president to the capitol. And afterwards will convene with lawmakers at a luncheon. And im wondering if given the issues with the outgoing president and virus concerns, what we can expect to see as a part of this pomp and circumstance with the president elect leading up to the ceremony of the inauguration and immediately after. Yeah. Again, great question. We will be announcing more in the coming days. You can go to our website and see the tiktok of the happenings. Safety is our top priority. That is something the president elect has said many, many times. Youre not going to see a lot of inperson engagement. There will not be a traditional lunch. No large crowds coming together and gathering. Large crowds meaning the people who will be attending the inauguration. They will not be conveing in small, closed rooms. We are not doing that because of safety. That is our top priority. You will see more on that in the coming days. I will say we are going to do a virtual parade. We announced that about a week ago. We will have while making it the most inclusive possible. Every american, no matter where they are, and people frankly around the world, can be part of this. So, adrienne, i just want you to reflect for one moment if you can on whats happened over the past four years. You worked on Hillary Clintons campaign. And Hillary Clinton, the day after the election, gave a concession speech that was heartbreaking, obviously, to her and you and everybody that worked for her. Here we are four years later and the man who beat her, donald trump, is still holed up inside the white house, still fomenting violence, still spewing conspiracy theories. Im just wondering, what are your thoughts of this bizarre arkansas america has been on four years and you have been on personally for four years. Wow, joe, when you put it that way, i was lucky enough to be on Hillary Clintons campaign and really have been on this journey for about six years. Its wonderful to see this come full circle and to see president elect biden just a few days away from taking the helm of the presidency and leading our country in the direction we need to be led. But, joe and mika, Hillary Clinton warned us early on that donald trump will be a danger to this country if he steps foot into the white house. It took us to a place we never could have imagined we would have gone to this point. Better days are ahead. We are focused on looking forward. I am focused on looking forward as an american. I cannot imagine anybody better at this point than president elect biden to bring our country together and take us in the direction we need to go. Adrienne elrod, always great to see you. Thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. And good luck with everything youre doing with the inauguration. Still ahead, the timing of the Senate Impeachment trial remains unclear. Republican senator Lisa Murkowski is signaling shes open to possibly convicting President Trump. What about other members of her party . Morning joe is back in a moment. Ning joe is back in a moment sofi made it so easy to pay off my student loan debt. They were able to give me a personal loan so i could pay off all of my credit cards. I got my mortgage through sofi and the whole process was so easy. Express yourself express yourself i believe this president violated his oath of office, and i believe there must be consequences to that. I believe that the house, in advancing the articles of impeachment, is entirely appropriate. Republican senator Lisa Murkowski speaking to ktuu, nbc affiliate, signaling she is open to convicting President Trump at a Senate Impeachment trial. In a Statement Released yesterday, murkowski called the president s actions, unlawful, arguing that for months trump has, quote, perpetuated false rhetoric that the election was stolen and rigged. Welcome back to morning joe. It is friday, january 15th. Along with joe, willie and me, we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent and the host of way too early, kasie hunt. Donnie deutsche is with us. And peter baker joins us this morning as well. So a lot to get to, joe, this morning. We have of course the impeachment of the president. No word yet on when House Speaker nancy pelosi will send the article to the senate. But we will be asking what the schedule is and how the senate will deal with this. Nancy pelosi said soon. It will be sent soon. Willie, just breaking, Washington Post abc poll, overwhelming opposition to capitol hill attacks. God, you would hope so. And the majority of americans oppose the actions of the rioters who stormed and ransacked the capitol january 6th. A smaller majority say President Trump bears responsibility for the attacks and should be removed from office and disqualified from serving again. The results, though, are sharply partisan. One in eight republicans say trump should be criminally charged in his role for the attack. Should donald trump be removed from office and disqualified from future elections . 56 say yes, 42 say no. So here we are. I said the other day that if we had an election today that, no, donald trump wouldnt get 75 million votes. He would get 74,800. I may change that and make it 74 million 950,000 votes. There we see the 42 number still hanging in there for donald trump. So 42 of americans dont think that donald trump should be stopped from returning to office. And you look inside the Republican Party and another poll and donald trump is still easily leading all challengers if he were to run in a primary in four years, which means that you have most republicans who still support the actions of a fascist president. That is where we are in 2020. Yeah. He leads all those polls of who should be the nominee in 2024. Its not close, by the way. These polls were taken after the events of the United States capitol. I would like to know the people in the poll who are not against what happened in the capitol. There is a percentage who watched that scene play out and have heard all the details in the nine days since and said, yeah, i think thats the right thing to do. A Police Officer was killed, i would remind them. This is a question. Kasie, its a good time to ask you about this. Whats at stake in 2024, a lot of democrats in particular, and perhaps quietly behind the scenes some republicans is preventing donald trump to run for office to get to that step you have to convict him in the senate, find 17 republican votes, which is an uphill climb. And then you get to that vote which is a simple majority vote about disqualifying him from running for federal office ever again. Are you hearing republicans, anyone behind the scenes saying, yeah, it would be good to get him off the stage so he doesnt hover over our politics and our lives the next four years . Yeah. And its more than just hovering, willie. These republicans have the ultimate choice to make. And i think its part of why you are seeing Mitch Mcconnell handle this the way he is. They all have and many of them have been privately distraught throughout the Trump Administration. You saw what they said about him when he was running for the nomination. This was not a guy who represented their values, who they thought was really frankly even qualified at all to lead the country. And then he won and they changed their tunes. Or at least they stopped talking about it in public. But now republicans across the country are supporting President Trump. So its possible that if you vote to convict the president , if you are a republican senator that you will lose your job. You are putting your own job on the line. But the goal or the result of you making that sacrifice personally is to remove a person that so many republicans want removed ever from their party in particular but also from our country in general. And well see if any of them have the guts to say it now. It is the most high stakes version we have had over and over and over again. What are they going to put first . Their own personal interests or what so many of them when i talk to them know is the right thing to do. Not just for the country but their own party and for all the other interests they have had over many, many years. It is a wrenching decision for many of them. But i think that and i think its going to be an uphill climb for them to find 17 votes. Much of it hangs on how Mitch Mcconnell face this is calculation on whether now is the time for him to make a sacrifice of himself personally, his political future to try and make sure donald trump is purged, or the words that the New York Times story used, from the Republican Party forever. Yeah. You know, im sure it is going to be a wrenching decision. It shouldnt be. It really shouldnt be. They should have already made this decision the last two weeks of the election when donald trump was pressuring william barr to arrest joe biden and his family. Thats the work of a tyrant in training. And t walk backwards to the thousands of events that should have disqualified donald trump. You can go back to charlottesville, of course. But even before that, during the campaign when he talked about Second Amendment solutions. Telling supporters they could stop Hillary Clinton from stopping federal judges by murdering Hillary Clinton. Clearly should have been the end of it. Or when he denied knowing who david duke was. Or when he died knowing who the klan was and said he couldnt condemn the ku klux klan because you dont know much about him. And, no, he didnt know who david duke was even though he knew exactly who david duke was. Or when he talked about the Muslim Registry which i said what we hear out of germany in 1933, that nobody should vote for him, that i could never vote for him. So, yes, maybe its a wrenching decision now because they have turned a blind eye to four and a half years of fascism, five years of fascism. Happened. Peter baker, i read your book called the brea change that to a sunday walk through the park. Things have changed a bit. I was there, obviously. I was part of that process. And it seems, you know, i always joke, but its not really a joke. You could impeach bill clinton on tuesday, and he would call you on wednesday. He was always looking to win the next vote. And democrats were always working with republicans even through the heat of that impeachment. The communications were, as you know, back and forth between gingrich and clinton and panetta and john kasich. Im just curious, what are your personal thoughts here 22 years later where you have the majority of the Republican Party who would still vote for donald trump if he were running for president today . Well, you know, its funny, joe, you say that. Because youre right, back in that day, 22 years ago, we thought it was so divided. We thought the country was so polarized, we thought washington was so broken in some ways. Obviously, by comparison today, you could see that was almost a golden era. Youre right. There was work done despite the divisions in the second term of clinton in the midst of all of this conflict they balanced the budget. They passed big legislation. They did Work Together even if grudgingly and not always in as. You know, i remember bill clinton had jim impeachment. They posed for a picture together, as add as that may sound. It does look so different today. Today we are talking about mobs in the capitol, storming this democracy. Youre right, rather than waking the country up to say, whoa, wait a second. How far down the road have we come that this could have happened, we have quickly retreated back to our partisan quarters. The polls you read are very striking. Yes, were against the mob attack, most of us, thank goodness. But when it comes down to the question of impeachment, most polls i have seen are pretty dead down the middle again. We retreated to our partisan corners. We cant agree whether it should be impeachment, disqualification, censure resolution, or some other form, we cannot come together these two parties to find a consensus statement about what we think about these actions the president took and what the accountability should be. And i think thats just a very striking moment. Now, we have a new president coming in. Days away we will wipe the slate clean to some extent. There will be a chance to start over. It doesnt look like the new President Biden is coming into an environment conducive to the reconciliation he talks about and the work across the aisle that he talks about. In an oped for the wall street journal, this was written about liz cheney. The stand seemed brought by conviction, given that she is the only woman in the House Republican leadership took some guts. She traits within an environment that is dumb male and clubby. She courted danger by giving them morrone to want to suppress her down the road. They didnt wait for down the road. The characteristics of the House Republican caucus right now is whenever you say could they be that stupid, the answer is always. Oh, yes. The men make it clear the women cant be brave. That they rough her up because she toad on principle. It was kind of amazing the way some of these congressman were acting when liz cheney was clearly stepping up not just to her oath of office, doni, but the constitution. We can talk how peoples reputations are torn down. This just seems so twisted. First of all, peggy noonan, she stole the title of my next book, dumb male and clubby. If we imagine our grandchildren history books, you know the liz cheneys of the worlds are going to be the heroes and Kevin Mccarthys of the world will be the weak villains and the stupidity, to use peggys term, that they cant see this is stunning. You know, go back to the polls where you guys talked about where americans are and where they are in trump and the impeachment. As is the case, i was wrong. I came on the show and i said, you know, this is going to be a theres a silver line to go this. And the Silver Lining to what happened last wednesday is the majority of trump voters would see this. There will be a moment for us to come together. If you just needed any striking example of whats wrong and the absurdity and the disgustingness of the trump presidency, i thought that was the moment. And i was wrong. That was not a wakeup call, a call to action, a call to sanity. And i keep coming back to why. Why . Why will you see that . And the only answer i keep coming back to. I sound like a broken record. It is race. 40 of this country, 35 of this country is terrified theyre going to be the minority. They are unhappy in their own lives and they need another. Just like hitler needed another. I almost got thrown off the air a couple years ago when i used to make hitler references. It seemed to be a little foresight there. But i keep coming back to the answer is race. There is a chunk of this country still, still that needs another to justify their own unhappiness. There is no other rational psychological explanation of why after you saw what you saw last week, there was not a wakeup call. Once again, i was wrong. And we are not anywhere near the kumbaya moment. This is a decision we need to continue to have. I dont think it can all be reduced to race only because there were some of those Trump Supporters who voted for barack obama and helped him carry wisconsin and michigan. Fair point. And pennsylvania and even the state of ohio. North carolina. I do think thats part of it. And i keep hearing from people who voted for donald trump because im asking a lot of people. How could you do it . You know, im getting what are you get something. The answers three or four weeks later being a little straighter instead of saying joe biden is a socialist it is a generational hatred of the media that they think is overwhelmingly liberal, of hollywood that they think has always portrayed them in Middle America as stupid due fusses. If you dont think academia is owned by the left, then you are youve not been on a College Campus the past half century or you are a member of the far left. Because it is. And there are a ton of cultural resentments that have built up through the years. And so thats a part of it too. At least for the educated people i talked to. Im just shocked. I remain shocked that they could vote, ever vote for donald trump given all the things he has done the past four or five years. What i found is its not so much about donald trump as it is about who theyre voting against. And they have a long laundry list of people that they are voting against. And in their hatred of the media, in their hatred of the democratic party, in their hatred of the hollywood, in their hatred of radicals in academia, in their hatred of all of these things, they have become everything that they hate. Because i grew up in the 1960s and 1970s. I was a little kid in the late 60s, early 70s. Some of my earliest memories of watching tv with my parents and watching left wing radicals storm across america, take over College Campuses, invade the offices of University President s. And always discussing it. Always discussing the violence. And had people even this summer, whenever i criticized the mayor of portland, or criticized the governor of oregon, would be shocked. How dare you . They are on a mission of peace and mercy. You know, its remarkable that the conservatives and the republicans have become what they hate. They are the radicals now. They are the people who were desecrating the American Flag, using it to bash in the head of a cop. They are the mob thats attacking the police. They are the very people who were undermining the United States constitution that these conservatives so hypocriically claim they want if you support donald trump, take that pocket size constitution and love waving at people, take it out. Because everything that you have done, not only the past month but the past four and a half years undermined that constitution you sat there and supported him when he attacked the free media. You sat there and supported him. When he attacked the federal judges and claimed they didnt have the authority to do what they were doing, when he attacked judicial independents, when he would trot Steven Miller to say the authority of the president is not to be questioned. My friends, it is such a gross, such a repulsive display, so offensive to everything that our Founding Fathers put in that document. You cannot claim to be anything but the enemy of the constitution of the United States if you still defend and support donald trump. Pick somebody else nikki haley. Mike pence. Anybody else all right. The bible says you cant love money and god. You must hate one and love the other. We are now at the point where you know you cannot love the constitution of the United States and donald trump. You must love one and hate the other. Lets bring in Steve Schmidt. Earlier today, jim messina said, when i talked about reconciliation. Because, again, i said this yesterday, its just whenever i was in the law. I always think there is a deal to be made. I think there is a way we can come together. A way that we can move forward. Sometimes im far too nye aoe. When i said this, jim messina said, well, youre right but we must start by telling the truth. And i said Lincoln Project should come up with five simple phrases that every member of congress should sign off on. And every member of the media should ask do you believe this election was stolen. Do you believe there is a Conspiracy Theory of leftists who are candles and child rapists. Whatever your five are, it steps Kevin Mccarthy have being able to have it both ways. Tell me what you think about that idea and what those questions might be. And also talk about Kevin Mccarthy and the jim crow tactics he used the past few weeks. Good morning, joe. Its good to be with you. I was just listening to you and was reminded about the reality that the first act of the First Congress was to prescribe an oath to federal officials. I do solemnly swear or affirm to defend the constitution of the United States of america. Full stop. Thats the question thats on the table. These men, these women are unfaithful to their oath of office. They have turned faithless with regard to american democracy. They have poisoned faith and belief in the legitimacy of the season. What Kevin Mccarthy did is rose as the leader of House Republicans for the vile cause of throwing out, discarding, eradicating millions and millions and millions of black votes from the states who had certified their elections. That is the definition of a new jim crow. It wasnt even the pretense of if you can guess how many jelly beans are in the jar then you get to vote. It was a federal action taken by the congress, led by the republican leader in the name of retaining the loser of the president ial election, fascist named donald trump who incited violence against the people of the United States as the capitol of the United States fell to a seditious mob. Kevin mccarthy stood up there and voted to throw out millions of black votes. Heres his problem. And heres the problem for republicans. About 200 million of corporate money flowed into Campaign Coffers of the super pacs, leadership funds. Theyve all put out statements in favor of black lives matter. Theyve all denounced the killing of george floyd and breonna taylor. They have all set goals to empower their black employees. All of those companies have millions of black customers and thousands of black employees. None of those Companies Ever again can write a check to the group of political leaders who threw out votes for no good reason. 68 Court Decisions voted to throw them out. So Corporate America can never, ever support these people again. We have an Autocratic Movement supported by and before we talk about reconciliation, we must talk about accountability. We must talk about justice. And we must talk about the punishment for the violence done to the government of the United States. There are only two ways to win a fight. You can bring your opponent to submission or your opponent can bring you to exhaustion. When you think about losing a fight through exhaustion, you think about the United States and iraq or afghanistan or in vietnam. When you think about submission, you think about what happened to the south in the civil war, germany and japan. So our offer on the table for the seditionist is a fight where we will bring you to submission. This must be crushed. This must be annihilated. This unliberalism, this undemocratic moment must be hit headon. It cannot be the gentle side. We should make no mistake when we talk about two sides. Liz cheney is the leader. She believes in democracy. Kevin mccarthy is the leader of the house autocrats. I say position is an immoral one, unamerican one. His position must be defeated. What may well happen is the auto kratz roll over the vestable democrats as we go into the primaries in 22 like the belgian army did in 1940. We willra candidates in general elections. Over time, as the crazier candidates are picked off in the general elections, the power of this movement will shrink. But we are in for a long fight. It will not last weeks, months. It will last years, maybe decades. But the prodemocracy side can never, ever lose a president ial election again to the autocratic side. The power will never yield again in the country. That is the lesson of the trump presidency. And we are well past the hour where it is tolerable for people to be naive about what has been staring us in the face for five years. These people keep telling us who they are. And now they have done it with violence. And that violence included the ripping down of an American Flag and the hoisting of the trump flag over it and the beating of a policeman with the American Flag. It was an atrocious display of unamerican sentiment, the likes of which we have never seen in this country, at least not since the civil war. And even during the civil war, the confederate battle flag never breached the rotunda of the capitol of the United States of america. What steve said is so interesting, mika. Its something that we have talked about over the last week since these riots. And it is something David Axelrod asked me about the future politically. And i said i dont know what it looks like. I just know this. That the forces of liberalism in america can never win another election. They can never be in control again. It is a zero sum game. Yeah. If they win, democracy loses. If they win, then the constitution is at risk. This is a lifelong project for everybody that is watching this. It is a battle for the soul of america. And if people are still supporting donald trump after this insurrection then, as steve said, the political battle is going to be far more difficult than anyone would imagine. It is for the truth as well. People dont understand what the truth is. And Steve Schmidt mentioned liz cheney. And, kasie hunt, i want to bring us back to Peggy Noonans column talking about men being clubby and stupid. I would say incredibly stupid. I know personally that is really stupid to take on liz cheney in any way, shape or form. She is a woman who knows her value. That is just not smart. Well, mika, i would say liz cheney is dick cheneys daughter. She has had five children. If some of those money like jim jordan, buck want to go to the floor and take her out, i wish them the best of luck. They couldnt do what shes done. And i think she has demonstrated that toughness over and over again here in the last few weeks. Ill just leave it at that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Kasie hunt, Steve Schmidt, peter baker, thank you. Federal and state Law Enforcement agencies are on high alert for violence in washington in the days before next weeks inauguration. While significant preparations have been put in place around the u. S. Capitol, there is growing concern that statehouses around the country will be targeted. And according to a social media analysis by nbc news, more than a dozen flyers are circulating on line promoting rallies at state capitol. We have chris krebs, the former director of cybersecurity and infrastructure and the infrastructure security agency. Chris, what can you add to those concerns that we already have seen from our own analysis of social media . Good morning. Thanks for having me on. Thats right. Its not just about washington, d. C. And the inaugural. I will give a lot of credit to the Transition Team you saw overnight that they asked the nominee for the Deputy Attorney general to, you know, slot in and help for coordination with Law Enforcement. Thats lisa monaco, former Homeland Security adviser. But to the bigger point, this is not just about washington, d. C. And i think the show of force with 20,000 National Guard members should be a deterrent enough where a number of otherwise protesters or insurrectionists may go to their state capitals instead. And they are planning for 50 state capitals. And protrump rallies or whatever you want to call them to expect those sorts of things. But i would also suggest this is going to be an opportunity for some of the accelerationists, where they will target infrastructure. The electricity grid, telecommunications infrastructure. Think about Christmas Day in nashville. Those sorts of attacks. Its incumbent not just state Law Enforcement and state executive leadership but Critical Infrastructure owners, the ceos to be prepared for any eventuality not just on the 20th but in the coming weeks and months. Chris, its willie geist. Its good to see you this morning. You famously said in november this was the most secure election in American History. I thought about you as i have been watching some of these videos of the people who stormed the capitol, attacked it, killing Police Officers, looking into cameras and saying what about the dough minion voting machines, regurgitating all the conspiracy theories we have seen in the darkest corners of the internet. Sorry to put you through the paces again. Its important because the message isnt getting through without going state by state, county by county, why you said this was the most secure election in American History. Yeah. It was four years of preparation. It was federal Government Investment in the systems that are used across this country. In 2016, pennsylvania and georgia both had systems where you touch a screen, it records the vote. It is difficult to audit. So by investment and by government leadership at the state level, they made the transition to systems that generate a paper record that you can then recount the receipts and conduct an audit. And thank goodness that happened. I cant imagine a situation where we are defending those touch screens that they have in states like louisiana and texas right now. Going back to the paper, this is a keep it simple stupid method. Its you go back. You can recount. Georgia counted three times. Theyre doing an audit again up in Bartow County in north georgia for the recent recount. But if you have paper, you can conduct postelection audits, meaningful audits. They have done that across the country in pennsylvania. Theyre doing it right now in michigan. They have done in wisconsin, nevada. The outcomes were consistent. Heres the problem, though. They dont care. The president of the United States is telling them incident was stolen. Im not holding mill breath that he will come up and admit to the big lie. But if another member of Congress Says anything about a rigged election, stolen election, to Steve Schmidts point, you have to run him out of congress on a rail. And we had advisers as recently as yesterday, peter navarro, repeating the lie, even what we saw on the capitol. He knows better. So many people know better. What is it like for you to hear members of Congress Stand up there, advisers to the president stand up there even after a Police Officer was killed and our country was torn at the seams by this lie to see them repeating it in public. Its pro formative politics. He is speaking to an audience of one. He wants to stay within the orbit of whatever perceived power the outgoing president has. Same for the congressional representatives that repeat the stolen election lies. They want to tap into the pac, into the fundraising thats happened, 200 plus million super pac the former president will have after this. Thats what its about. Its a grift. The problem is words have consequences. Words matter. Now, what is happening with the insurrectionists . Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, you go to jail. What are the consequences for those that undermine our democracy in the Political Class . I dont think that just waiting two years for 2022 to vote them out is good enough. We need more explicit, more aggressive actions to hold them accountable when you have actual members of congress saying im here to support you in your stop the steal. Dont back down. Rudy is thinking game of thrones is an actual documentary. We have to hold them accountable for what they have done. Rudy giuliani said trial by combat an hour before that siege on the capitol began. Chris, great job in the way you have stood up and basically shown this election to be the fairest in history. Is there anything else that can be done to communicate the safety and legitimacy of the audience. You can hold up the paper and say, here, we live in a right wrong society. Im right and never going to admit im wrong. Theres nothing else you can do. You know, its it took years to get us here. This was the game plan i suspect that the president was going to roll out in 2016 if he had lost. You heard those rumors and the allegations that the election was rigged. This time around, you know, you had years to sow and get this concept out there. So there is no silver bullet. Youre not going to take one statement or one piece of evidence thats going to have the whole thing collapse. The people that dont want to believe are not going to believe overnight. Its going to take time. And we have tos on on extra size and call them out. But we have to prepare for the next time, for 22, 24. As i have talked about, we have to get the touch screens out of there, continue investing in elections. We are going to have a problem in the future years about finding enough workers to help administer elections at the state and local levels. When you have state workers, local county workers that are getting Death Threats for helping advance democracy, shows you something is wrong. You know, i dont blame them. I wouldnt show up to get Death Threats for, you know, 10, 15 bucks an hour. So we have got to continue piling money into the system, increase Civics Education through k12. That has dropped off the radar a little bit in our education system. We need to increase Digital Literacy as well. For the fact that these protesters i did it again. These insurrectionists show up at the capitol and taping themselves, videotaping themselves and putting it on social media, it shows they clearly have no idea how the tubes, the internet works. Weve got to get more awareness out there about how this whole system works so we can rebuild confidence, rebuild an understanding of how society actually operates. Chris krebs, thank you very much. And coming up, keir simmons joins us with more on the task before joe biden as he tries to restore the nations standing on the world stage. Keep it right here on morning joe. N morning j joe i have the power to lower my blood sugar and a1c. Because i can still make my own insulin. And trulicity activates my body to release it like its supposed to. Trulicity is for type 2 diabetes. Its not insulin. And i only need to take it once a week. Plus, it lowers the risk of cardiovascular events. Trulicity isnt for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. 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Learn more at cosentyx. Com. Incomparable design makes it beautiful. State of the Art Technology makes it brilliant. The visionary lexus nx, lease the 2021 nx 300 for 359 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. How about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Dry, distressed skin that struggles . New aveeno® restorative skin therapy. With our highest concentration of prebiotic oat intensely moisturizes over time to improve skins resilience. Aveeno® healthy. Its our nature™. Welcome back to morning joe. Live picture at 7 44 at the United States capitol. In five days, joe biden will be sworn in as the 46th president of the United States. The attack of the capitol last week caused fear and concern obviously among american allies. Joining us now live from london, nbc News Senior International correspondent keir simmons. Keir, good morning. Reporter hey, willie, good morning to you. This is a pretty fascinating document. This is the National Security counsels strategic framework for the endopacific. It is clearly an attempt by President Trump. It says china aims to dissolve u. S. Alliances and partnerships in the region. But its not just the Trump Administration that is trying to pressure the Biden Administration. Americas allies and enemies around the world have been positioning for months. Just today russia announced that it will withdraw from the open skies treaty. Europe just published a document saying it wants to reset transatlantic relations. A world that has typically looked to the United States for leadership has now looked on in horror as President Trumps final weeks in office have unfolded. Americas oldest ally, france, compelled to reassert a shared and fundamental tradition. We believe in the strength of our democracies. We believe in the strength of american democracy. Reporter such alliances are key to president elect bidens Foreign Policy vision. Were stronger and more effective when were flanked by nations that share our vision and the future of our world. Reporter many friends of america are weary about the current state of american democracy, worried that the next president ial election could return the u. S. To an america first, go it alone approach in four years. But the British Ambassador to washington says theres a deeper sense of relief and enthusiasm. I think everybody is excited at the prospect of getting back to an aligned space set of discussions where you can do things collectively. So i think there are very important things to do around nato. Peurbing back on the russians. Pushing back on the russians. Reporter last weeks irans president appeared to offer a return to the nuclear deal President Trump abandoned saying, quote, the Islamic Republic welcomes any move by u. S. President elect joe biden to compensate for past mistakes. If not, we will never get in. The implicit message was iran wont renegotiate the terms of the nuclear deal. Indeed, making its position Crystal Clear it has been escalating its uranium enrichment program. And china looms large with president elect bidens agenda. He will inherit President Trumps trade war and years of mounting mistrust. Biden will need to deliver on his election promise of a Foreign Policy for americas middleclass, which he says means, quote, to win the competition for the future against china or anyone else. Who have support from many allies. Trade, neither of us are saying no to a relationship with china. About you we want it to be based on a level playing field. Reporter but skwraourp just signed a trade deal without waiting for biden to assume office. And other allies in asia have done their own deal with beijing. While trade is just one of a myriad of issues on both sides where biden may have little room to maneuver. This week the Trump Administration looned diplomatic restrictions on taiwan. Beijing is furious. They need to development more attention, resources to the china challenge. China can sometimes be a difficult environment to gain insights into. It is an authoritarian regime. Bryan will inherit a world where the United States is no longer uniquely powerful and where china believes its moment to bring balance to the world order has arrived. I think many other countries reporter just listen to this International Relations expert with close ties to the chinese government. The world is an unhealthy and unconstructive world. Especially when the United States wants to put itself on top of the other countries or promote america first. Reporter biden will need allies after four years of broken american diplomacy. And support from a divided American People. He has a mountain to climb. And having talked about north korea, guys, kim jongun just held a military parade which included a developmental Ballistic Missile that might be capable of being launched from a submarine. Another thing about this nsc document, guys, after all the diplomacy between President Trump and north diplomacy between President Trump and north korea, it says that north korea still is an acute and present danger. Guys . Rex tillerson, the former secretary of state said as much this week as well. Keir simmons, thank you very much. Lets bring in richard haas. As you watched that, there is a mountain to climb for joe biden. Where do you begin . Theres a sense among allies, first relief, an exhale that they wouldnt have to deal with donald trump for four years, then the scenes at the capitol showing weakness of the american democracy. Where does joe biden begin next wednesday . What keir set up is exactly right. Foreign policy has to begin at home. The challenge for mr. Biden coming out of the gate has to be to get covid under control, the u. S. Economy growing again, to have law and order restored, to have politics unfold. He has to project a sense of american return to normalcy, American Economic power. Thats the most i think he can do. If, indeed, he can do all that, its an extraordinary accomplishment. Keir made an important point, he can do all that, he can have a successful presidency, but in the back of every countrys mind now including every ally is the question of what is the new normal in the United States . Is it a return to trumpism down the road or is trump simply a fouryear aberration . Until that question is answered, every country out there will be hedging against the fact that the United States is no longer predictable and potentially no longer reliable. So, richard, you tweeted this about impeachment. A trial will take up valuable political oxygen. It will contradict the 46th president s message of coming together. There are other ways, a Commission Hearings and courts to press the case versus trump. Worse, trump will likely be acquitted fueling his return to politics. What will determine the fate of the Biden Administration will be getting covid under control, boosting Economic Growth and bringing the country together. A trial works versus all this. Best we turn the corner and get on with the task of, to borrow a phrase richard, youre in trouble. Making America Great again. Are you trying to get in the middle of our argument yesterday . I can tell you are both so wrong, its painful. So first of all, youre treating biden like hes stupid, like he cant walk and chew gum at the same time. He already unveiled coronavirus plans and monies towards it. He unveiled plans to deal with our economy. And he knows what needs to be done is to restore unity, to restore our democracy, but also to restore a value of the truth. And there are some things that cannot be just washed away and turn the corner. A violent attack on our capitol with cops getting squished in doors and blood gusting out of their mouths and people dead . No, no, no. I dont think so. I think every way possible this act and this president has to be held accountable. My chance now . My turn . Yes. Your turn. The problem with impeachment, mika, is not that donald trump does not deserve to be impeached. Of course he does. The problem is that impeachment creates the one venue where donald trump is likely to prevail, the United States senate. I have little confidence that this Republican Party will vote to find him guilty. And to impeach him. Instead i fear he will be acquitted. Theres so many other ways to do what you want. Why not have a serious 9 11like commission . Have congressional hearings in both the house and the senate . By the way, committees now are controlled by democrats. Let the legal machinery in new york play itself out. Possibly, possibly after all that is done, we then have an enormous public record, maybe then we can revisit the idea of impeachment into what you want. To do it now, i fear that, one, it would be a didistraction. Look how much of the show this morning is on donald trump instead of the details of what mr. Biden rolled out last night. Again, i just dont have confidence. You have ten people in the house, ten republicans voting in favor of nine others plus liz cheney. That same percentage in the senate means mr. Trump gets off. I dont want him to say they came at me twice and they failed twice. I think that would really fuel his political future. Yeah. The issue though is whether or not the votes are for or against. Dont we want these republicans to make a decision and write it down for the annals of history to record where they stood at this moment when our democracy was challenged . I think of Elijah Cummings and the question he asked to everybody when youre dancing with the angels, where would you have stood . What have you done to save our democracy . I think it needs to be set in stone. Well, i think, richard, it will be set in stone in a number of ways. Impeachment can go forward. Obviously its the democrats decision. They do need to understand what you just said, what they will be handing donald trump. And by the way, save the tape. If they do it quickly in bidens first days before all of the evidence comes in, richard, i fear like you, what theyll be handing donald trump is a huge New York Times headline trump acquitted again. Absolutely. Thats my concern. Look, mika is right on one level. The idea we want these people on the record. Let history judge. That in the long run is important. I want to get to the long run. The only way i know how to get to the long run is to get to the short run and the medium run. Im worried about this country. I dont have confidence that the senate is in any way ready politically to meet its responsibilities. As a result, an acquittal to me is the worst of all. Lets launch a serious commission. Lets have the investigations. Im happy to revisit the impeachment issue down the road. But look at where the Republican Party is. Right now the members of the senate are reading the polls. Their party is overwhelmingly against impeachment. I fear theyll vote against impeachment and basically say well take our chances in a general election, but we have to get to a general election first. Thats why, again, i think impeachment is choosing the single venue where donald trump has the best chance of prevailing. Find other venues. Yeah. Mika, again, this is the democrats choice. If they choose to move forward, joe biden chooses to move forward in this way, certainly im with you. I want republicans to have to have their vote recorded. Its important to remember though, maybe this is also im only urging caution. Im not actually taking a side on this yet. I think we all have to think through it more. There have been two impeachments in the past quarter century. Actually three. But two senate trials. It worked against the party in power both times. Republicans suffered in the 98 election when we started moving towards impeachment, and then of course the democrats underperformed horrifically in 2000 in the house races, losing 25 of 25 contested houses. And then of course underperforming in the United States senate. So, yes, people have to tell the truth. We have to get justice. But also trumps Republican Party has to lose in two years, has to lose in four years, has to keep losing until those with autocratic tendencies are driven from politics for good. Richard haass, thank you very much. Still ahead, one of joe bidens first tasks as president will be getting the coronavirus pandemic under control. Well be joined by bidens pick to lead the department of health and Human Services, Xavier Beccera will join us. I member guys were stripping me of my gear, rioters pulling my badge off my chest. They ripped my radio off of my vest. Started pulling like ammunition magazines from their holder on my belt. Some guy started getting ahold of my gun. They were screaming out, you know, kill him with his own gun. Good god. A firsthand account from one of the officers attacked during last weeks insurrection at the capitol. Lets stop here and say good morning. Happy friday. Happy january 15th. Thats the last happy news we have today. Thats it. Because lets just tick through a couple things that we heard over the past couple of days. One, willie, we heard that officer say kill them with his own gun, right . We know that members who voted to impeach donald trump, republican members now are running in fear for their lives. And by the way, thats a constitutional remedy. Its in the United States constitution, the impeachment of a president. Then you have Lindsey Graham, poor, poor lindsey says im done with this, and then gets chased through the airport by a couple of qanon people and then suddenly hes back in this and flying on airplanes with donald trump. Yesterday he said the most remarkable thing. He said if the senate went through with their constitutional duty to have a trial of donald trump that they could face violence. That america could face violence. Further insurrection. So this is the Republican Party of donald trump and of Lindsey Graham and of those 150 or 160 people who voted to overturn the election. It is a party that is well, its what we read in the history books about hitler. He had his brown shirts, he had his enforcers. He had his thugs that would go around committing acts of violence, when they took over italy they would take over government buildings and commit acts of violence and intimidate people through violence. I remember back in the days when i was in politics, you would intimidate opponents with a big war chest by going out and raising money. Now donald trump and Lindsey Graham and this Republican Party, they are intimidating their opponents with violence, with threats of death, with storming the capitol, with killing Police Officers. Willie, this is Donald Trumps party, and right now if you look at the polls, the majority of republicans remain with this fascist president. Yeah, they do. A majority of them do. A large portion of them, it would nominate him again if he decides to run in 2024 after what weve seen. Im glad those officers like the one we just saw in the cnn interview, that was michael fanone, has four daughters. Im glad they came out yesterday and began to tell their stories of what was happening. For as bad and horrifying as that looked two wednesdays ago on television, it was much, much worse. With each new account we learn how bad it was. He talked about being dragged down those steps near the west front, the west terrace, then talking about taking his own gun and killing him with it. He drifted in and out of consciousness. The Washington Post reported that he had a mild heart attack. Hes okay, as you can see talking in that interview yesterday. For all these people who for years and years talk about backing the blue, donald trump backing the blue, supporting the Police Officers, do you support what you sea in that story from the officer in d. C. . Do you support what were hearing from the Capitol Police officers . Do you support the people who are in that building literally saving the country . Its not an overstatement to say that officers like the one we heard there, eugene goodman, the black officer of the Capitol Police who led the mob away from the speakers lobby, they stood in the door of democracy and saved the country. Its not an overstatement. Some of them describe what they saw as a medieval battle scene in the Washington Post. Its a painful account but its the truth about what happened inside that building. Donald Trump Supporters, who had been claiming to be champions of law and order, committing riots, killing Police Officers, donald Trump Supporters claiming they were champions of the blue, beating up and trying to kill as many officers as they could get their hands on. Donald Trump Supporters who were upset because Colin Kaepernick did not show sufficient respect for the American Flag beat up Police Officers with an American Flag, ripped an American Flag down and used it as a weapon. This is not just what happened a week or two ago. This is Lindsey Graham, a guy who was going to be chairman of the Judiciary Committee warning democrats if you move forward and have a hearing on impeachment you will cause violence in the country. Let me state, this is a constitutional remedy that our Founding Fathers put in the United States constitution so the legislative branch could check the excesses of the executive branch. And of the president of the United States. In this case you have a president who fermented violence and who pushed for an insurrection and even Mitch Mcconnell knows, even the wall street journal opinion page knows that these were impeachable offenses that donald trump committed last week. Whether you think its the right thing to do politically or not, its the constitutional thing. Its a constitutional remedy, and to threaten your opponents with violence if they go through with that, this isnt something we can look in the rearview mirror. This is not a time for unity or whatever else the seditionists are saying. They have to clean up their act first. They need to step forward, repent for their sins against the constitution of the United States of america. They need to respent repent for committing sedicious acts, for stirring up millions of people who believed because of their lies, because of their votes that this election was rigged. When Donald Trumps own appointed federal justices said no its not. You have absolutely no evidence of that at all. Still ahead, on top of the trauma from last week, were hearing from some democrats who fear their farright colleagues on the hill might try to kill them. More on that part of the story next on morning joe. quiet piano music comfort in the extreme. The lincoln family of luxury suvs. You clean dishes as you cook, to save time and stay ahead of the mess but scrubbing still takes time. Now theres dawn powerwash dish spray. The faster, easier way to clean as you go. It cleans grease five times faster on easy messes, just spray, wipe, and rinse. On tough messes, the sprayactivated suds cut through grease on contact, without water. Just wipe, and rinse. Get dishes done faster dawn powerwash dish spray. Spray. Wipe. Rinse. Go pro at subway® for double the protein on footlong subs and the new protein bowls. And if you want to go pro like marshawn, dont let anything get in your way. 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Ask your doctor about oncedaily trelegy. And save at trelegy. Com. Following last weeks violence at the u. S. Capitol, some democratic lawmakers continued to voice concern that some of their republican colleagues may be endangering their lives. Democratic congressman don beyer of virginia yesterday said its the most poisonous ive ever seen. Theres the overall sentence that maybe if some of them have guns and likely the ones who are more into conspiracy theories and qanon with the pedophilia satanic rings, are we safe from them . Hundreds of members of the National Guard have been sleeping in congressional hallways amid continued warnings about threats. And remember, we have a pandemic happening. Its not only democrats who are worried. Some republican lawmakers are also voicing concern about possible threats. When it comes to my familys safety, thats something weve been planning for, preparing for, taking appropriate measures with colleagues who are traveling with armed escorts out of fear for their safety. Many of us are altering routines. Working to get body armor, which is a reimbursable purchase that we can make. Its sad we have to get to that point, but our expectation is that someone may try to kill us. You know, David Drucker, yesterday i was talking about how these members of congress should respond to making a vote of impeachment that was unpopular. Back in my day, i would hold a lot of town hall meetings, i would sit down, talk to hem. We would agree to disagree or they would understand my point of view. You know, work through it all. In this case, this guy cant even spend the night in his house or leave his house because trump mobs might kill him. Yeah. You know, joe, its not even just the Impeachment Vote. Last week, after the insurrection at the capitol, i was talking to a republican member of congress who voted to affirm Bidens Electoral College victory, a vote that is usually just pro forma. We never cover it. Every four years nobody pays attention because its just part of the process. Its not to actually try to formally decide the election or throw it out. This republican was telling me from that vote alone there were Death Threats, Police Escorts after landing in his home district. And that there were searches of his house. And so this is before the vote to impeach the president this week. And i think it tells us especially with these new videos and new pieces of information coming out about what happened last week on capitol hill just how serious a problem there is that is ongoing. And i think from some republicans what you have seen is an attempt to treat it as a normal political matter and dismiss it. Or at least say, look, its the same thing that has been going on from the other side. And you see other republicans take the Impeachment Vote or say that they would be willing to convict and remove the president if there was a trial in the senate. And then youve got this wiggle room in the middle where you have some republicans, and i think we saw that from Kevin Mccarthy with his floor speech who discussed the idea that the president was responsible. The president should be censured but that we dont want to impeach. We dont want to remove. But what he did was wrong. They are trying to straddle both sides of the fence by acknowledging how serious and dangerous it was, but not want to take the ultimate remedy into their hands and use it. I think what republicans will have to figure out Going Forward is exactly what is their view of what happened. How serious was it. How responsible was donald trump versus the people that listened to him after two months of being told the election was stolen. And what do they plan to do about it in the months ahead if, as we think, this president isnt going to be a normal expresident , retire, play golf, build a library and not be heard from for a couple of years. Well, willie, they have certainly a roadmap. James lankford, a guy who comes on this show quite a bit, a goodman, a conservative, a republican. Somebody i was shocked he was going to vote against the certification of the vote. He went back to his district and hes apologizing now to black members in tulsa for what he did. And said he had a blind spot. He didnt recognize that the focus was discounting black votes. People cant believe that or not believe that. Of course im not going to agree with everything James Lankford did when donald trump was the president of the United States. But if republicans want a roadmap forward, you follow James Lankford who apologized to people in his district, apologized for what he did and is trying to move on. With Kevin Mccarthy, you have Kevin Mccarthy is a guy who actually supported basically 2020 version of jim crow laws for voting. The Republican Party of Kevin Mccarthy is the party of modern day jim crow. And his problem is, and these republicans problem i mean, what what corporation on k street is ever going to give them a dime again . Who is going to ever give a dime to a party whose supporters resort to violence to kill Police Officers and to lodge Death Threats against members because they dont like how they vote on certifying elections . Or they dont like how they vote in impeachment . And people may say, oh, youre talking about k street money. Well, thats how Kevin Mccarthy lives. Thats his political life. Thats Mitch Mcconnells political life. And make no mistake of it, every one of these corporations, a lot of corporations are backing out of contributing, willie. Its because they dont want to contribute to a Political Party thats resorted to fascist tactics to intimidate their opponents. When Lindsey Graham says if the senate does its constitutional duty and picks up the articles of impeachment from the house, there will be violence. Thats something that hitler or mussolini would say. Well, and what you have is people, some people backing away slowly after what they saw on wednesday from things they have been saying for two months. The problem is the damage is done. They have given credence and support to the lie that this election was stolen from donald trump, when again and again and again officials, republicans across the country, secretaries of state, governors, courts have told us that there was no irregularity in this election. But the lie has been sold. The damage is done. The capitol was attacked, gene robinson. And now were left with a situation where you have members, republicans and democrats, telling us on tv and in interviews and print, they dont feel safe inside the capitol. Yeah. And why . Because you have some members, one of which a qanon supporter and fans the flame of what happened two wednesdays again, holding a rifle, semiautomatic rifle next to photo shopped picture of aoc and talib and omar and saying its time to go on offense. And then some of them wont walk through the metal detectors. So what are the members supposed to feel about their safety in the capitol . Its a stunning place to be in our country when members of congress dont feel safe walking through the halls of congress. I mean, its incredible. The only parallel you can think of in American History would be the years right before the civil war. And thats, you know, whenever thats the only parallel you can think of when was it congressman sumner within an inch of his life on the floor of the house in a particularly acrimonious debate. If thats where we are now, and thats the only parallel you can think of, its a very, very bad place to be. Coming up, the Justice Department watchdog blames Top Department officials for being the driving force behind the Trump Administrations child separation policy, but those Officials Say its not on them. Julia ainsley with her reporting. She joins us in just a moment. We made usaa insurance for members like martin. An air force veteran made of doing whats right, not whats easy. So when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. Thats how you do it right. Usaa insurance is made just the way martins family needs it with hasslefree claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. Because doing right by our members, thats whats right. Usaa. 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Theraflu hot beats cold. 2020s done powerful relief so you can restore and recover. A new era has begun so keep pushing forward. Because this is twenty twenty won make a different future start different at godaddy. Com. Former Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein is expressing regret for the Trump Administrations zero tolerance family separation policy for migrants, a current Justice Department official outright blamed President Trump for the policy. This after a doj watchdog report on the controversial policy released yesterday found that the departments single minded focus on increasing immigration prosecutions came at the expense of careful and appropriate consideration of the impact of family unit prosecutions and child separations. For more on this, lets bring in Julia Ainsley who has been reporting on this for years. We saw a draft. You and jacob reported in october about a draft of this report out of the Justice Department. Now weve seen all of this. What do you make of the findings . Well, thats right. We did have a draft in october. I have to say there really wasnt a lot of manger substantial changes. So i think thats also something we want to be asking questions about, why the Inspector General was delayed. They said the Justice Department officials told them go back and ask more people, and what they found was not a substantial change. Thats one piece of why its been more than 2 1 2 years of this policy and were just getting these revelations. Some of the major revelations sticking out to me is how premeditated the idea of separation was even knowing these families would probably not be able to be reunited at least in the nearterm. This was all discussed and they went ahead with it any way. So when we hear from the Trump Administration that they just wanted to make the rule of law apply to parents and nonparents equally, and that child separation was just an unfortunate byproduct, that was not true and this report spells that out. We understand there was an immense amount of pressure from the Justice Department to start the separations. We know there was about a month between the time then attorney general Jeff Sessions announced zero tolerance and the time they started separating families. It turns out there were multiple meetings where justice officials pressured neilsen to say your agency needs to start separating these families because we want to start the prosecutions. Its such an important point you make. We heard the spin again and again as the gruesome details of this policy were made public by reporters like you and jacob. We heard the spin these were unintended consequences. You say, no, there was an explicit policy. And we heard this publicly from former attorney general Jeff Sessions, he would stand at rallies and make speeches along the border say we want to deter people from coming to this country, and part of the way we do that is by separating families. This was a raise your hand and vote in a room policy. Thats right. We reported on that. They did raise their hands in the room. Whats also interesting is the response now. We saw that Gene Hamilton put this at the feet of the white house, to the president himself saying this is the reason why we did this policy. That goes against a lot of what the president said about this policy. And its interesting to see how hamilton and rosenstein reacted in different ways. If i could read you a piece of what Rod Rosenstein told nbc news after this report, it says that he basically is expressing regret. He says it was a failed policy that never should have been proposed or implemented. I wish we had all done better. I think those are very strong words coming from the Deputy Attorney general. Remember, this is one who signed the memo to fire james comey. Its not someone we saw many apologies or statements of regret from during his tenure as Deputy Attorney general. But on this policy he does feel remorse. Its a shame he didnt have some of those second thoughts in the room while this policy was being developed. Nbcs Julia Ainsley, thank you so much. Coming up, a second new deal. Why our next guest says the nearly 2 trillion relief plan unveiled by the president elect yesterday could be a key step in making america fair again. Well explain when morning joe comes right back. To support a strong immune system, your body needs routine. Centrum helps your immune defenses every day, with vitamin c, d and zinc. Season, after season. Ace your immune support, with centrum. Youre strong. You power through chronic migraine15 or more headache days a month each lasting 4 hours or more. 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They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Wow. That will save me lots of money. This games boring. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Its moving day. And while her friends are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. It only takes about a minute. Wait, a minute . But what have you been doing for the last two hours . Delegating . Oh, good one. Move your Xfinity Services without breaking a sweat. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Xfinity makes moving easy. Go online to transfer your services in about a minute. Get started today. This entire week weve been looking at the economic back stories that illustrate how we got to the current state of income inequality in this country. Today we conclude our next guests weeklong residency with a look at the 90s and 2000s. As a way of illustrating how wealthy and unequal america actually is. He presents this hypothetical. If all income and all personal wealth were equally divided every u. S. Household would have an annual income of 140,000. More than twice the actual Median Household Income and a net worth of 800,000, eight times the actual median. Lets bring in bestselling author kurt andersen. His latest book evil geniuses the unmaking of america and former governor and senator of nebraska, bob kerrey. Thank you so much for being with us. Greatly appreciate it. Kurt, let me begin with you. So, were now talking about the reckoning, the 90s and the 21st century. I remember in 95 during the contract with America Newt Gingrich saying we can pay for our tax cuts by cutting medicaid, you can sell the cuts on medicaid by calling it welfare for hospital. Or medical welfare, Something Like that. I remember voting against that, but i voted for some things that i thought were libertarian that would balance the budget. That continued through the 21st century, and you believe that the real reckoning has come over the last few decades with policies that started in the early 1980s. Thats right. And by the by the late 90s, by the turn of the century, the results, some of them timereleased results of these big structural changes that took place during the 1980s and e in. It could no longer be denied. And just as important as inequality, by the way, is insecurity. This sense that theres i have no protection. I dont have a union. I could be laid off just so my company can increase its stock price. All of those elements of insecurity, which were also new and can be fixed more quickly than inequality today. You had that being stark at the turn of the country and the Republican Party at that time letting in all kinds of nonsense into their mainstream discourse more and more, starting with Climate Change denial, but conspiracy theories of various kinds, leading to birtherism and qanon and trumpism. You had the 2008 melt down. You had natural reaction against that. Oh, my god, whats going on . The right and the person of charles koch and david koch and their billionaire organizations, the real blame such as it was was not placed on wall street but democrats and government. Now the question, the same economic problems and unfairnesses are still built into the system. Meanwhile you have automation and ai accelerating the illumination of good, middle class jobs. You have to do something now. Again, joe biden and the Biden Administration seems to understand that. You have to use this crisis and use this opportunity to make big changes. And its kind of now or never. So, senator kerrey, what do those changes look like when we look at the last six, seven months and see the 650 or so billionaires in america gained a trillion dollars, added a trillion dollars to their personal income. Amazon, one of the largest corporations on the planet pays zero in taxes this past year. Jeff bezos made 10 billion on one day, july 6th this year while food lines continued to grow through the pandemic. The what do we do . Well, first of all, i dont think you can just focus on federal law. You also have to focus on what the Federal Reserve is doing. The Federal Reserve may be doing more to widen the wealth gap than anything that congress can do. The you know, everybody wants Interest Rates to be low. When you keep Interest Rates as low as they are, youll inl increase the value of stocks and the net worth of individuals who own those stocks. We balanced the budget in the 1990s over ten years, we also expanded the minimum wage, passed health care for children. We did a number of things to try to equalize to the extent possible the American Dream for all americans. I dont think were at risk if we follow the path and say that health care should be affordable and accessible for all of us. Thats not a dangerous path to go down, likewise with college or child care. Those are things that joe biden will propose. He will be opposed by people who say thats socialism or communism. I dont think theres a change their well go down that road. I think if we dont make the marketplace work for everybody, the marketplace will be at risk. People in the end will say we dont like this system. We want something entirely new. Some of the motivation for the assault on the 6th of january was directed as a consequence of that frustration. Yeah. Willie, i think the senator brings up a great point. Its even a point that libertarians that kurt brought up in his book, people like Alan Greenspan understood, income disparity, the crisis that weve been in, its actually not just a threat to american capitalism, its a threat to american democracy. We cannot continue on the path we have been on over the past 40 years. Yeah, youre right. Its not a recent problem as kurt writes about in the book. Its been over 40 years, and the divide is deepening. I want to continue this conversation but i wanted to ask senator kerrey just briefly given his life of service in the senate, as a governor, in the United States navy and vietnam as a navy seal and recipient of the medal of honor, your thoughts on what weve seen in our country over the last nine days. What you saw at the capitol. What you saw from members of congress, members of the United States senate where you served. Their conduct, before, during and after. Your thoughts as you watched that and as we move forward to the inauguration of joe biden in five days. I mean, on the 6th of january the president s speech was a clear violation of the act of the sedition act. The statute couldnt be more clear. When republican leader mccarthy says he did something wrong, no, no, he didnt do something wrong, he did something illegal. You read the statute on sedition or insurrection, it could not be more descriptive of what the president did. You cant say were a nation of laws if we enforce the laws unequally. You cant say, well, thats the president. Remember, hes the man who said if i do something, its going to be legal. Thats not true. So the speech itself was a violation of federal law. You may want to excuse it. I dont. I think that the house did the right thing by impeaching. I know it will be difficult to convict in the senate, he should be convicted. He violated the law. All right. So, kurt andersen, what are the solutions, kurt, as we look at the growing income disparity. We look at the fact that you cant even raise the marginal tax rate by 1. 5 without people. We have a divided senate. We have a divided house. We have a democratic president. What are some solutions . What are some things that can be passed through that senate and that house and signed by President Biden that would further some of the goals of your book . Well, as senator kerrey says, you know, universal health not tomorrow or next month, but thats a huge one. And obviously necessary. And people will be pleased with it. Even in this biden plan, hes proposal massively, massively expanding earned income tax credit program, which has had bipartisan support for decades. Supporting massively increasing tax credit. Again, those are bottom prayer increases for a year or so, lets say they happen for a year and then suddenly thousands of dollars are going into families piggie banks and pockets to get by in this time. It will show people that, look, Big Government is not your enemy. Big government can change your life for the better. Now, Going Forward, i mean, you speak of Alan Greenspan and libertarians talking about the specters and the damage that inequality does. Milton freedman himself 50 years ago was talking about a universal basic income. Andrew yang during the democratic primaries got a respectable hearing for this radical plan, which by the way the state of alaska has done successfully for the last 45 years. Thats one of the things we need to Start Talking about as these as jobs go away. The other thing i want to mention to you as a conservative, joe, and your conservative listeners, universal health is not socialism. Universal health i thought the argument should be made its perfect for this flexible labor country. It would allow people to quit their jobs, take new jobs, move for jobs, quit to start businesses, take a huge burden off Small Businesses. We need to keep explaining the facts. In truth, its a long haul. I look at the 40 year cycle of the new deal being the set of norms and rules, then the last 40 years, what i call the raw deal. I believe in cycles of history happen. And im hopeful that we are on the at the beginning of a new cycle. Was that its interesting, you talk about universal health care. What i always explain to my conservative friends who are so offended by that concept and say its radical socialism and it will destroy the very nature of america. I have to say this, one of my favorite polls is was a poll of selfidentified tea partiers. Like 80 of those people did not want the federal government to be involved in health care. 75 of those people said you better not touch my medicare, which shows the hypocrisy there. We already have a guarantee in the United States of america for guaranteed health care. If you walk into an emergency room, they have to take you. Guess what happens when you walk into that emergency room . Ill go to senator kerrey, he knows it, its so inefficient. The charges are so grossly exaggerated and theyre doing it because theyre afraid they wont get the money back and it ends up costing americans billions and billions of dollars more. You dont treat people that have diabetes early on, but then theres going to be a requirement that you amputate their legs. You dont take care of people early on with Preventive Care for diabetes, every american will be paying for their dialysis later on. You can pay me now or you can may me later and right now we have the least Efficient Health care system in the western world. We can do it better. I agree with you. I understand you did that for effect. No, no, no, hold on. I knew you would going to do that for effect. Lets all laugh. Now, senator, since you know so much more about that than me, this. Talk about no, no, on youve worked your whole life on this. How do we do that . What should this congress do . What should this president do to move in that direction . First of all, joe, in order to bring everybody in and say that were all going to be eligible, if you can prove youre an american or here legally, which would be my requirement, those of us who are entitled already to federal protection, whether its the income tax deduction, whether its people like myself that are eligible for subsidies as a consequence of getting blown up in a war or whether youre eligible as a consequence of having a kidney that needs dialysis, or a certain age. The Worst Program of all is medicaid in my view. You have to not only prove youre poor, you have to promise to remain poor. Once youre no longer poor, youre no longer eligible. All right. This has been a great it seems to me we all have to be willing to give up something or we wont get there. There you go. Thank you for that. Kurt, before you go, we want to mention your collaboration with alec baldwin on an upcoming audio book. Heres a quick preview. You grant pardons just like granting wishes. Like in aladdin or harry potter or the bible. Oh, my gosh. An audio book, imagining the final peach by the president. Real quick. The book is evil geniuses. Kurt andersen, thank you for being with us. And former senator bob kerrey, thank you. Thank you for your service to america. Thank you very, very much. Coming up, in his first 100 days in office, president elect joe biden has the lofty goal of administering 100 million coronavirus vaccines. Bidens pick to lead the department of health and Human Services, California Attorney general Xavier Becerra joins us next with that. Pain. Maria had to do everything for me. She had these awful blisters on her back. I dont want shingles when im your age. Actually, if youre 50 or older, youre at increased risk thats life, nothing you can do. Uh, shingles can be prevented. Shingles can be whaaaat . Prevented. You can get vaccinated. Where . At your pharmacy, your doctors hold on dont want to go through that 50 years or older . 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A rare, but lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction and dont take it if youre on dialysis or have severe kidney problems. Taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Lower a1c and lower risk of a fatal heart attack . On it with jardiance. Ask your doctor about jardiance. Last night president elect joe biden proposed a 1. 9 trillion economic plan to combat the coronavirus. He proposed 1,400 checks for most americans, a temporary boost in Unemployment Benefits and a moratorium on evictions. And foreclosures through september, along with 350 billion in aid for First Responders and other essential workers. Grants for Small Businesses, travel governments, transit agencies and money for the vaccine rollout. This is one of the most challenging operational efforts we have ever undertaken as a nation. Well have to move heaven and earth to get more people vaccinated, to create more places for them to get vaccinated, to mobilize more medical teams to get shots in peoples arms, to increase vaccine supply, and to get it out the door as fast as possible. Joining us now, California Attorney general javier becera, i see that you all are wasting no time. It has been a first since this pandemic began that weve seen a list like that. What is it going to take, especially on the vaccine front, to get a real onslaught of vaccines onto the American People . Mika, its an emergency. And president elect biden is prepared to treat it just like that, an emergency. And that requires you to go out there, all hands on deck and thats why hes acting quickly. Its not about just planning and execution, its about leadership and partnership with those folks back home who have to do it on the ground. And so president elect biden knows theres not a moment to spare. As youre preparing for this transition, what are you seeing as some of the barriers in the way, or ways in which this has been handled so poorly that you have to regroup . Well, you know, president elect is inheriting a situation where covid is actually going to be worse on the day he takes office than it is today. And we have to do something to change course. Were going to have rescue not just those americans who are working hard, the First Responders, the folks in nursing homes, but we also have to get ready for recovery. But you have to get ready for rescue before you can do the recovery, and thats why this plan is so important. We Hope Congress will act quickly because if we expect to recover, not just our health and our economy, youve got to rescue first. Mr. Attorney general, its willie geist, its good to see you morning, we see the plan, the resources and the money devoted to speeding up this vaccination rollout. How do you logistically improve what weve seen. Some states have done well, florida is getting it to people, people are coming out of state, in fact other countries because they can get the vaccine there. Other states like new york have been slower, red tape, they blame the federal government. How do you on day one, which is five days from now, how do you speed up this process . So i mentioned communication and coordination, willie, and first you have to let people know. You cant blind side people, you have to telegraph what youre proposing to do so they can give you feedback. Its the communication. Secondly, its the coordination, this is a partnership. The federal governments going to help. 1. 9 trillion package, no state can do that, but tenth amendment, states have rights, they have to be the ones that do it on the ground so we have to coordinate. Its a matter of working together. And so with the communication and coordination, showing that were there, weve got skin in the game, were not going to be on the sidelines, i think what well do is well find the locals will step up. Theyre asking, we want to deliver. There have been some Public Health experts, doctors treating Covid Patients who have suggested on our network, on our show, that the military, all four branches, be mobilized to help get the logistics moving. Do you think thats a good idea . Well, first, all hands on deck as i said and so were going to look at every option, every good idea. Certainly weve seen the National Guard be used in ways that have helped so many americans. And so what were going to do is were going to make sure that if theres a force out there that can help us get out there, multiply the force of what we have, were going to do it and i think president elect biden as made it very clear, no stone is going to be left unturned because we cant afford this. We have to meet the moment where it is, and its not good right now. Before you were the attorney general, most people watching the show will remember you served in the house of representatives. You worked on capitol hill for many, many years. What were your thoughts as you watched the attack on that building two wednesdays ago, and the way that some of your former colleagues have conducted themselves since . Well, first, you know, having been there, having been there on 9 11, there are a lot of really decent people, hard working people who try to represent our country and the government and i felt for them seeing what i saw. Same time, when five people are now dead as a result, youve got to grieve, democracy is very fragile. I think last week showed that. It hinges on two things, rules, our laws, and institutions that apply those laws and enforce them. If you dont have either rules or institutions, you dont have american democracy. And so we have to protect it. I am so grateful to the people in uniform, the men and women in uniform who did their job the best they could and were going to go out there and investigate this because this does not happen in a democracy. Your focus, of course, will be on health and Human Services but as someone whos served in that body and knows a lot of the players in the congress, how do you believe the country turns the page, president elect biden has talked about doing just that, lowering the temperature in the company in the country, moving on from the trump years. How do we do that . After what we saw in the congress on capitol hill. I think this is where president elect biden is going to excel. He is so good at talking to folks, and talking straight. You know, he didnt have to reveal a 1. 9 trillion plan. There are going to be folks who say, oh, my gosh, this is Government Spending run amuck. No, its not, its meeting an emergency in the moment at the place we must. And joe biden, as our president , is going to do this by giving straight talk, and also going down on the ground. Not just talking from, you know, up high in the white house, but actually get there on the ground and so i think what we have is someone whos not only very experienced but very committed to get this done by being straight, reliant on facts, and in this case on covid, relying on science and getting the best minds out there to help us. But no doubt, you need a good leader and thats where president elect biden comes in. New sheriff in town coming january 20th. Xavier, i loved working in the house with you, and i always found you were a person of good faith. And, you know, youre also easy to, you know, talk to, easy to work with. Like you didnt judge anybody based on their views or their Political Party. Im just wondering, with your experience on capitol hill, and with joe bidens experience on capitol hill, the very thing that people have been trying to run away from, experience, people who actually know how to make washington work, people who actually have relationships in washington, how much do you think thats going to help you do your job, to allow you to work with the republicans, to work with democrats, work with everybody . Joe and, you know, we have different views on some things, and we dont always win, but what we know is weve got to move the ball forward. At the end of the day there are 320 Million People who depend on us. So i think with joe biden as president , and those of us who have experience in the congress, were going to try to move the ball. Its not about philosophy. Its not about winning, its about moving the ball forward. Thats what we need for this country right now. Amen. California attorney general Xavier Becerra, thank you so much for being on, ending on a hopeful note this morning. Thank you. That does it for us this morning, what a week its been, next week be sure to be tuning in to morning joe, well be following it all. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi there, im stephanie ruhle. It is friday, january 15th and this morning our nations capitol is on lockdown, fears that right wing extremists, american extremists could attack d. C. And state capitols in the days ahead. They are testing Law Enforcement in ways we have not seen in decades, in fact, nbc news has just learned that a rehearsal for joe bidens inauguration was pushed back from sunday to monday because of security concerns. Take a look at these scenes, straight out of a fictional war movie, thousands of National Guard troops pouring into washington with 21,000 expected to be there by Inauguration Day. Those troops will be armed and