Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200908

Willie. Hes looking like the edward r. Pu murrough of our time. How was your weekend . It was good. The kids are rolling back to school. Were looking at some semblance of normalcy, but thats not possible with reporters Wearing Masks and the president still asking them to take them off despite everything we know. I havent been back to new york since the end of february. How is new york city doing . I get some reports its fine, but a lot of other people say, man, when you come back youre not going to recognize it at all, between the boarded up buildings and people have moved out. So many people have moved out. Look at times square this morning. 6 00 a. M. , nobody is there. Whats new york city like . Its strange. I mean, this is the tuesday after labor day, where there should be this massive rush of kids going to school and people going back to work and saying goodbye to summer. To me when i was back this summer it felt like summer, which is to say there werent a lot of people here. The restaurants were outside. That in an odd way felt normal. But now i think is when people feel it when times square looks like that and it shouldnt look like that, and kids arent back in school. Its strange, do i feel unsafe . No. Its new york city well be okay. Its different and i think people are settling in for the reality that its going to be a while. If they go back to school, its staggered, may have to start and stop school again. Same for work. I think people are realizing were in for the long haul not just in new york but across the country. Youre our intrepid reporter here and youve gone a place few people have gone before, new york city. Let me ask you about the island, you said you feel safe there. What we read in the newspaper far away from you big city folk is that crime has gone up. We have friends saying i dont feel safe, even in the 70s after dark. Remarkable thing about new York City Post well, ill say it, let me say it here, post rudy giuliani, is after dark you can walk around most of new york city and actually feel safer than in most other major american cities, but all were reading and hearing and friends are telling us, its dangerous, joe, nothing like the past 20 years. You dont feel that . I dont feel it. But there are people that feel it and are hesitant to go out alone at night. You read the headlines and yes, there is truth in the headlines but if you look at the statistics of Violent Crime its not up. But there are people that are going to leave the city, thats true. Those are people of means, can buy another house, go somewhere else. I was a kid in the 1980s, so i cant speak to that. Its different for people, im speaking for myself, Walking Around new york city does not feel different or unsafe to me. If you look at the Crime Statistics thats probably true. But there are more shootings, more murders, but i think across the board new york is going to be new york and people will leave. It will change temporarily a little bit but people will be ba back. Rev, you spent a lot of time in new york, you hardly left but had to leave at times for work. We heard some calls to defund the police. Weve actually heard black leaders in the city say, no, no, dont defund the police. Things are getting worse right now. Why dont you give us your view of new york city right now really quickly before we go into the days news. Do you think its as safe as its been or are you seeing new york City Security fray at the edges . Weve always heard about the tale of two cities on the side of the city that i come from, which is blacker and poorer. Weve seen more, in terms of gun usage. You know, i got a lot of attention when i did the eulogy for George Floyds funeral but later i preached a 1yearold kids funeral in brooklyn who was killed by a stray bullet. Were seeing both. Six people were shot over this Labor Day Weekend at a festivity in brooklyn. So i would say statistically were not much higher than we were. But on the ground it is certainly feeling more violent, feeling more unsafe, in unsafe communities, if you know what i mean. Im talking about communities where we were somewhat having to deal with more crime, it feels more, in many ways, dangerous. And the fact that you have people that are disproportionately essential workers that had to go to work. They did not have the summer or the pandemic off. So it has been in stressful areas slightly more stressful. I dont think the headlines are exactly right. I think they embellish it. But clearly those that feel the worst has gotten even a worse feeling during this pandemic feeling in new york. I hear the fears of, again, defunding the police or cutting the Police Budget by a billion dollars in new york city will impact who, the poorest people in new york city. And also disproportionately impact people of color, rev, with School Safety monitoring being yanked out of there, and other Police Officers that certainly many people of color and their representatives in new york city feel are essential workers themselves. Ive said, and you and i have discussed this, we need to reimagine how we do policing. But when you are talking about the fact that, a, we are in the areas where that is inundated with guns, that has this Serious Problems of our of people being given guns that cant take a Summer Program to take all policing off is something i think a lot of liberals go for as they sit around the hamptons discussing this as an academic problem. But People Living on the ground need proper policing, yes, we need resourcing in different areas like Mental Health. But we do not need the users of products of the big manufacturers in this country. Also with us this morning we have msnbc National Affairs analyst cohost of the circus and executive editor of the recount John Heileman. Columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post david ignatius. And host of kasie dc on msnbc kasie hunt. And we have, believe it or not, everybody, 56 days until the general election. 21 days until the first debate. And early voting under way in a number of states. A new National Poll from cbs news yougov showing joe biden with a double digit lead over President Trump, 52 to 42 . A look at wisconsin now, the Morning Consult poll of likely voters there shows joe biden up a eight points over President Trump, 51 to 43 . The latest rasmussen polls shows the same numbers in that state. And cbs has joe biden up in wisconsin 50 to 44 . That six point lead was the same as prior to the unrest in kenosha. And more voters are siding with joe biden when it comes to protests. 45 of wisconsin voters approve of the president s handling of the unrest. 55 disapprove. 51 approve of joe bidens handling of the protests, 45 disapprove. When asked which candidate makes them feel more safe, 45 said joe biden, 43 said President Trump. A statistical tie. And now, 44 approve of trumps handling of the nationwide protests, 56 do not. Whereas 51 approve of joe bidens handling of the protests. 48 disapprove. And in the latest abc news ipsos poll, 59 think biden would do a better job handling the nationwide protests. 39 think President Trump would. 59 also say biden would do a better job reducing violence in the country. So a lot of different polls to look at nationally and also those wisconsin numbers, joe. The wisconsin numbers obviously so many people looking at wisconsin because the to paraphrase the late great tim russert, if 2000 was about florida, florida, then many believe 2020 is about wisconsin, wisconsin, wisconsin. But it looks like all of Donald Trumps efforts to stir up racial animus in wisconsin, to run an us versus them campaign in wisconsin to somehow get closer to joe biden in wisconsin have failed. Hes down, as we see, ten nationally. It hasnt moved the meter nationally but in wisconsin the last two polls that came out yesterday have him down 8 points. I wonder if we file this under another failed experiment by this white house to preach a racist brand of law and order that has fallen on deaf ears. Yeah, joe, you know, i was in wisconsin all last week. So i feel like in addition to seeing the data thats been coming in that state ever since the situation unfolded in kenosha on the initial shooting of jacob blake and then Kyle Rittenhouse afterwards, i feel like im tuned in on this story and i was there last week when trump was there and biden was there and talking to a lot of people. I havent met anybody who knows anything about politics in wyoming who thinks joe biden is going to win that state by 8 points on election day, not a single person. But i think what the numbers reflect to your point after all of that convulsion around the as i said, the shooting of jacob blake, the protests, the riots, the burning, the two candidates coming there and making it ground zero last week, not much has fundamentally changed not just since then but since the conventions. If you look at the polling in wisconsin all year you had basically joe biden at that like a high single digit lead. Everyone there, republican experts, democratic experts, assumes donald trump won the state in 2016, that the thing is going to tight een and its goi to be a couple points of a race. I think what we learned from last week and i found from the ground, what i kept hearing over and over again, was joe biden and donald trump both came to kenosha. Donald trump came and looked at the destruction, looked at the burned buildings, talked about riots, joe biden came and met with the community, talked to jacob blakes family and a lot of people were very tuned into the fact that before donald trump came to kenosha, he would not do what joe biden had done, which is condemn violence on both sides. And people saw that speech the night before the the press conference the night before trump came to kenosha when he refused not only did he refuse to denounce Kyle Rittenhouse, but he defended him. That coupled with the way that trump conducted himself on the ground, compare and contrast between trump and biden, trump is seen as a force of division among voters in the middle of the electorate in wisconsin and thats why i think theres a ceiling on his ability to come close to tighten this race up in a lot of states and a lot of other battleground states the same dynamic is in play when it comes to Racial Justice and police violence. Willie, i think one of the biggest tells during that time was donald trump refusing to criticize in fact, i believe he retweeted praise for a 17yearold boy who drove across state lines with an ar15 and started shooting people up, including a guy with a skateboard. And, of course, trump and other trump Media Outlets can sit and try to defend Kyle Rittenhouse all they want, he was under attack. The courts can decide that. But if youre in wisconsin, you dont want a president who wont even condemn a 17yearold running around your streets with an ar15. Anybody in any Community Across america would want a president to condemn that sort of lawless behavior. And he couldnt even bring himself to do that. Cant do the easy things. But weve seen that before in these explosive situations when the focus of the country is on charlottesville or kenosha, wisconsin for him to come in and take the side of someone else other than the victim in this. In this case that 17yearold youre talking about. And this relentless focus on what the president calls law and order and making the streets safe in places like new york that we were talking about. It ignores the reason the streets are empty, which is this pandemic, were at six months now since people left their jobs. Since people left schools. The reason schools are empty this tuesday after labor day, the reason this Office Building and others across the country are empty is because of the pandemic and the response to the pandemic. Isnt this, at the end of the day, whats going to decide the election . This is at the center of i ne r everyones life right now. This is why were living the way were living and the president is at press conferences asking people to take their masks, which every Public Health expert says we should be wearing. At the end of the day, people losing jobs, loved ones, not in school because of the pandemic and the response to it. Willie, you would think. And certainly thats the thesis of the Biden Campaign is that there are all these diversions and distractions and attempts to frame joe biden in a negative way that trump and his Campaign Keep throwing up and the Biden Campaign is thrusting, but in the end they keep coming back to that argument. Which is, everything thats problematic about america in september of 2020 is the result of a failure to manage this pandemic, why is the economy bad . Why are the social stresses, why is there rising crime in areas . The schools, everything thats wrong come backs to the pandemic and its not Donald Trumps fault for the pandemic existing but his failure to manage it. Thats the Biden Campaign argument. The thing you saw yesterday, on labor day was what i thought we were going to see. Yesterday you saw trump and the Biden Campaign trying to bring the argument back to the pandemic and the connection of the pandemic to the economy. That is where i think the election will be decided. Its the one place where donald trump continues to have some hope, which is that it continues to be amid all of these bad numbers for donald trump, it still is the case and the Biden Campaign knows this. It frustrates them that donald trump is ahead of joe biden when it comes to peoples perceptions of whos best to rebuild the economy. The Biden Campaign is chipping away at it for months and still finds themselves behind on that question and still feel like they have a lot of work to do. They know the people blame trump for this economy, but they dont necessarily think that that applies to which of the two candidates would be best to rebuild it once were on the other side of the pandemic. And that i think is going to be a huge focus of this fall. What we learned, mika, also, over the course of the last six months is how terrible donald trump is at managing things. Hes managed the pandemic in just an absolutely disastrous way. 190,000 americans dead, almost 200,000. Were coming up on the 200,000 number we heard in the spring which donald trump, of course, dismissed and brushed away. Again, saying it was one person coming in from china, it would be gone. It was 15 people coming in, but soon it was going to be gone. He hasnt been able to manage that. Done it miserably. The lead story in a lot of newspaper today. The New York Times especially, donald trump hasnt been able to manage his own money, his campaign, his billion dollar enterprise. Theyve completely blown their advantage. Well talk about this in a little bit. But theyve had to go off the air because hes wasted so much money, blown so much of his contributors money. So well talk about that later. But this is a man who just doesnt know how to manage things. Its why he went bankrupt. Why his Companies Went bankrupt after his daddy gave him 400 million. All this as major elements of the atlantics reporting that the president made disparaging remarks about u. S. Soldiers and war casualties have been confirmed by other news organizations. His disinterest in finding captured soldiers has been reported by the Washington Post and the New York Times. His discomfort with wounded veterans confirmed by the New York Times. His asking whats in it for them while standing with john kelly at his sons grave has been reported by the Associated Press and the Washington Post. The claim that the president didnt want to visit a Military Cemetery in france in 2017 because it was filled with losers was also reported by the ap. And a source told the times the president questioned the intelligence of those who served in vietnam because unlike him they didnt find a way to dodge service. This is what National Security reporter for fox news, Jennifer Griffin confirmed. Ive spoken with two senior u. S. Officials on the trip to france who confirmed me to me key details in the atlantic article. My source told me when the president spoke about the vietnam war he said it was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker. The president would say about american veterans, whats in it for them, they dont make any money. The source said it was a character flaw of the president he could not understand why someone would die for their country, not worth it. Regarding the french trip to mark the end of world war i, the president was not in a good mood. He questioned why he had to go to two cemeteries. Regarding the july 4th military parade planning during a Planning Session at the white house, after seeing the parade in 2017, President Trump said regarding the inclusion of wounded guys, quote, thats not a good look. Americans dont like that. Meanwhile, the president yesterday continued to deny the report that he has disparaged the military while at the same time criticized military leadership. The story is a hoax. They made up the story. Its a totally made up story. Who would say a thing like that . Only an animal would say a thing like that. Theres nobody that has more respect for not only our military but people that gave their lives in the military. Im not saying the military is in love with me. The soldiers are. The top people in the pentagon probably arent because they want to do nothing but fight wars so that all of those Wonderful Companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make Everything Else stay happy. I said, thats good. Lets bring our soldiers back home. Some people dont like to come home. Some people like to continue to spend money. One cold hearted betrayal after another. I really dont know painful. What to say about that. Just complete ignorance of the men and women who run our military. You know, david ignatius, you know this better than anybody. I found, in my years on the Armed Services committee, when we were getting briefings from generals and admirals, military leaders, they were the last ones who wanted to go into war. Famously Dwight Eisenhower loathed war because he had seen it so much, he was always the voice of caution. He was always the one trying to tell politicians before he was in the white house to send people to war, it is said that after the korean war that he inherited, not another american soldier died in combat in the remaining years of his presidency. He gave the warning the military Industrial Complex, he knew that civilians like donald trump and the presidency getting too close to war profiteers and getting too close, as donald trump has done, with a lot of military companies, could cause potential problems. But david, even colin powell, who is only remembered for what happened at the u. N. , george w. Bush was asked why he didnt seek Colin Powells council more on the second iraq war, he said i knew he was against it. I knew he didnt want us to go in there. And it was colin powell that had the show down with our friend Madeleine Albright talking about toy soldiers. Again, the general who had been through vietnam, as so many of these generals had been through vietnam, no. No. War is a last resort. And david, havent you found that time and time again . As donald trump insults our men and women in uniform, it is the generals, the admirals who have seen war who are the last ones that want to go back there . Joe, you put it exactly right. Theres a deep a conservativism and caution among people who have ordered their troops into battle and had to pick them up off that battlefield. Just think about the little sound bite we heard from yesterday. Put aside Jeffrey Goldbergs excellent reporting, and put aside the fox News Reporter who found these same terms, suckers for going to vietnam, put all that aside and just listen to what he said yesterday on camera. He essentially accused our military leadership of putting young men and women in harms way. Exposing them to violence and death to serve the interest of war profiteers. Its an incredible comment. If you want to take an instance of Donald Trumps contempt for the men and women who run our military, you dont have to go further than what he said on camera yesterday. Its a pattern, in my reporting over the last four years, i travel with the military, it would have been with Central Command commander today, if things had worked out the way he hoped. I have heard more and more, people who wanted to give trump every benefit of the doubt, who were happy to have trump exercise less authority, less insi insisten insistence. They liked that. But the military saw something in donald trump, i think of it as a culture clash. They saw somebody who came from this instrumental world of new York Real Estate where everything is a deal, everything is a transaction. And the military with its culture of professionalism, sacrifice, just didnt get it. I think the division began to widen starting in 2017. Its gotten worse and worse. Lets not quarrel over Jeffrey Goldbergs quotes. Just listen to what the president said yesterday and youll know the essence of the contempt he feels for the military. And willie, as always, david puts it so well. Because even though jeffreys quotes in the atlantic have been confirmed and as you read them, you knew for the most part who the sources were just by reading the quotes. Put that aside. If youre not going to believe your own lying eyes, as the saying goes, just watch donald trump accuse men and women who have dedicated their entire lives in uniform to serving this country, accusing them of killing young soldiers for war profits. This, of course, is especially rich coming from a man who continues to refuse to condemn Vladimir Putin for putting bounties on the heads of american soldiers, which his own intel agencies have been begging him to Say Something since march. But here we have again, we saw it several years ago, when he was in helsinki, where he took the word of Vladimir Putin over his own intel agencies. And here hes willing to condemn his generals and admirals as killers of kids for war profits, when actually they are the most conservative with a small c when it comes to sending young men and women into battle. And yet, he wont criticize Vladimir Putin, who he knows has put a bounty on the heads of Young Americans. Yeah, all the steps that you just laid out led us to this atlantic piece where people read the quotes and said, yeah, this sounds like something this man would say, which is astonishing place for the commander in chief to be where the American Public would say, yes, that sounds like something he would say. Fox news has corroborated the story, the New York Times and others have corroborated the story. Whats deafening is the silence from republicans who leap to defend the president whenever they can. They dont leap to criticize him very often but if ever there were something to criticize someone on, this would be it. Have we heard from any republicans at all criticizing the president or even talking about the story . Willie, i think you said it best when you said the silence has been deafening on this. And, you know, i can tell you, having covered republicans, democrats, you know, congress for on and off for the last decade. I have never heard members of congress with regularity talk about our troops the way this report characterizes what the president said or even as david pointed out what the president said from the podium yesterday. This is not something that has ever entered the consciousness of most people who run for elected office to serve the country, by the way, when you run typically for congress, you know, you get paid less than you do in the private sector as well. And while, yes, obviously a lot of politicians are driven by their own selfinterest and ambition, they are also interested in Public Service and recognize that the people who serve us in our military are serving on a higher plane than any of the rest of us, essentially. But youre right. There hasnt been any talk about this because what do you say about it . I think this is another opportunity for them to potentially criticize the president. We know how theyve handled those opportunities in the past. They continue to do that here just a few months ahead of an election theres less incentive for them to go out and cross the president. I think the reality is the way the president has denied this shows you he knows just how damaging this report is. And while we dont have a ton of polling of the military community. The military times does do some good work on this. While the president is right that officers tend to be more inclined to disapprove of the president s job than the enli enlistenlis enlisted corps, the numbers have changed. Even among the enlisted group, when the president said the soldiers are with me, theyre actually trending against him. This is the most extreme example of what weve seen from the president on this topic but its not the first by any stretch of the imagination. And its taking a toll. Every time the president opens his mouth he undercuts his apologists who were denying what fox news confirmed, repeatedly, about the Jeffrey Goldberg article. But then he goes out and says that generals and admirals are war profiteers who will kill kids to make profits for the military Industrial Complex. Its breathtaking. And following up on what kasie said, rev, i was on the Armed Services committee in congress. And ive got to say over my time there, i probably served with about 700, 800, 1,000 members of congress. I never heard one members of congress, a liberal, a conservative, a libertarian, regardless of how antiwar they were, i never heard one elected members of congress question the integrity of our military leaders. In the house, in the senate, on the hill, anywhere, i never heard anyone deride the honor, the virtue, of our generals and admirals the way the president of the United States the current commander in chief, the way he did yesterday saying that they will take kids into battle to get killed so they can make profits. So they can be war profiteers. Its breathtaking and it is so far out of bounds that i find it hard to believe that current members of the Armed Services committee, republicans, people like Lindsey Graham who have had a close relationship with the military community through the years, arent going to come out and speak out in defense of these generals, of these admirals, of these americans who have dedicated their entire life to service to this country. It is an astounding statement. You know, i grew up in a time that we were protesting the vietnam war when i was in high school, we protested the war. Ive never heard antiwar activists call military men suckers. And i the feel that the president of the United States would say that is amorable. And i grew up protesting war and admiring mohammed ali a posing war. And following dr. King. But for him to say, thats absurd, who could say that, only an animal could say that, but by the way, the officers of the military are using you as suckers for getting you killed for profits of their friend. He is confirming in another way of speaking what they quoted him as saying. Why in this time youre trying to deny that you have belittled the actual worth of life of those military men that put their lives on the line for all of us, why would you come back and accuse those that are in leadership there of bargaining their lives for the profit of some people that are in the military business. I mean, it shows that he cant even get out of his own way to tell a lie. Why would he say it in the first place . Because he believes it, which once again, leads us to the saying that when somebody tells you who they are, believe them the first time. Absolutely. And still ahead on morning joe, a lot of news to cover including the number you see at the bottom of the screen, 190,000 plus people dead from coronavirus. Colleges are cracking down on stu students who do not adhere to coronavirus rules. Where the cases are exploding. Plus postmaster general louis dejoy is facing new scrutiny after reports that he pressured employees to make contributions. And said he was going to pay them back through bonuses. That is a crime. People who do that go to jail. The House Oversight committee wants answers on that. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Ng joe. Well be right back. Hey, can i. 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Despite that denial the Washington Post reported on sunday, dejoy pressured employees of his former company to contribute to republicans and then reimburse them for the contributions through bonuses. Five people who worked for his former business said they were pressured to write checks and to attend fundraisers. The post writes two other employees would instruct that dejoy payments to staffers be boosted to help defray costs, an arrangement that would be unlawful. Carolyn maloney said shes opening an investigation into the matter and called for dejoys immediate suspension. A spokesman for dejoy told nbc news in part, mr. Dejoy was never notified by the new breed employees referenced by the Washington Post for any pressure they might have felt to make a contribution, and he greats it if any employee felt uncomfortable for any reason. This is illegal if this is the way it went down, described by employees to both the Washington Post and the New York Times. Yes, indeed, willie, illegal if as reported true. And i think the relevance here beyond look, what do we know about mr. Dejoy . What we know is that we knew before this report is that he was a political hack. A donor who was put in this position as an act of pure political patronage by President Trump. Thats the reason why there is so much concern with the things hes doing as postmaster general the way weve been concerned of things he might be doing to undermine the postal system when mailin voting is more vital than ever under the spectrum of a pandemic. We knew this was not a person appointed to the job because of his administrative skill or because he had a history of managing the post office or any commitment to Public Service or anything else that would normally entitle someone or commend someone to a job that is not just important always but important, particularly vital in this election season given the strains on the postal system. I think for those who are skeptal of him or critical of him, those who are prone to be worried about what theyve already seen and what they might see between now and election day, this reporting beyond the sheer illegality of it, what you just pointed to, this reporting is going to put him more and more in the spotlight, is going to bring more congressional scrutiny on him and press scrutiny, i dont think this is a situation that subsides, the controversy around postmaster general dejoy. Hes going to be in the hot seat, a seat thats going to get hotter and hotter every day for the next eight weeks. This is something that is done. This is something that is illegal. And this is something that sends people to jail. And kasie, the numbers are all out there. If dejoy, in fact we have these former employees that have come forward, five of them that said he forced us to make political contributions and then said hed get it back to us in bonuses. Regardless of whether he perjures himself in front of a House Committee or not, there are receipts. There are fec records. This is something he unlikely will be unable to escape from. I dont see how he does escape from it, joe. The reality is, if this went on, who knows what else a house investigation might turn up. This is the kind of thing where i think if youre louis dejoy, youre probably worried about the answer to that question. And i think its pretty telling that the president essentially said, sure, go ahead. You know, President Trump, if you look at how hes defended or not, his appointees and people who have worked for him. There are some people hell stand behind no matter what in public, and then you can kind of tell which ones are about to go because hell say im going to wash my hands of this, sorry. So i think there are still more turns to this story. But he is not going to be somebody that democrats, as you point out, are going to forget about in the weeks leading up to the election when there are so many other electionrelated issues with the post office and so many concerns about its functioning. Again, mika, this is a crime. Yeah. And its something that he and his lawyers have to be worried about right now because it appears he lied about it. He has five former employees, theyre claiming that he pressured them. Did they pressure these people to make contributions . Look at the fec report, see if they made the contributions and then follow their receipts, did they get bonuses that covered those contributions. Its easy connecting those dots and this is again why some contributors get sent to jail for running these sort of shell games. Coming up, President Trump appeared to take a victory lap after the august jobs report was released last week. But is the economy as amazing as he claims . Steve ratner joins us next with charts. 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Search john deere 1 series for more. Doctors in germany say alek say nevalny is out on a coma and conscious. This comes after it was confirmed he was poisoned during a flight from russia. Heres what President Trump had to say. I think its tragic. Its terrible. It shouldnt happen. We havent had any proof yet, but i will take a look. I would be very angry if thats the case and well take a look at the numbers and the documents because were going to be sent a lot of documents over the next few days. So he says he doesnt know who did it, mika. He would be very upset if he found out who it was. Theyll be looking at numbers and documents. Luxomberg, damn them. Look at what they do to people who no. This is what we asked him about in the middle of december 2015 when he tried to excuse Vladimir Putins murdering of political opponents and journalists and nothing has changed, of course. We didnt expect it to. Over the past five years. Hes still giving Vladimir Putin a free pass. And theres denial on the russian side. Any involvement russians deny. And suggested that the allegations are part of a western disinformation campaign. Save it for stupid people in your own country who would believe that. David ignatius what do you think the u. S. Response, stronger, more forceful, for connected with reality u. S. Response would be . Well, mika, as the evidence gets firmer and now with the navalny out of a coma, we have a likelihood that navalny himself will be able to speak to what happened. I think you have a real nightmare for Vladimir Putin beginning. Navalny has been his sharpest, some ways most a riz mattic opponent. If navalny begins to speak as the intelligence evidence makes its way from germany to the u. S. , i think trump, in this case, has no choice. Hes got to respond to it. He seemed to be setting up the possibility of that response. But i think our focus should be on what this means for Vladimir Putin. Putins got growing problems in a russia thats frustrated, thats suffering from the pandemic like everywhere else in the world. And to have navalny survive in germany, under germ man care an then come back, thats something. You asked what the american response should be, weve seen what a strong leader does, Angela Merkel versus a week leader, donald trump, a weak leader says nothing, he said nothing about placing bounties on u. S. Soldiers heads. But Angela Merkel said it was attempted murder plain and simple. The final verdict of those convicted of killing journalist jam Jamal Khashoggi has been handed out, they sentenced five men to 20 years and three others to less. The identity of the men are unknown as the trial has been conducted in secrecy. After the sentencing, a shis fiancee said said theyre closing the case without the world being known whos responsible for jamals murder, who planned it, who ordered it, where is his body . These are the questions that remain unanswered. David ignatius he obviously was a colleague at the Washington Post. The Washington Post has been at the forefront of demanding answers. Whats your reaction to these verdicts handed down in saudi arabia . Joe, Jamal Khashoggi was a colleague, a personal friend. These verdicts released in saudi arabia are the opposite of meaningful final resolution of this case. They took the people who were most responsible, the senior generals and court officials, who are believed to have been the organizers of the plot to kill jamal, they took them out of the trial, they were exempt. The trial never even touched the crown prince who according to our cia and analysts around the world must have been responsible for ordering this brutal killing, high degree of confidence among our intelligence analysts that he was involved, and so the saudis try to claim theyve now resolved this, its over. Its just a sad spectacle. Saudi arabia, for its own future, needs to be honest. It needs to have accountability. A prominent journalist, a Washington Post contributor was murdered and hacked to pieces. The people involved in that killing know exactly what happened, they were there in the room. Their testimony is still not available. Their names have not been disclosed by the judge in the trial. What kind of a process do the saudis think this is . How can they imagine this will have credibility with the world that wants answers. I think they thought this would put it behind them, but they didnt get the answers the world wanted. Lets turn to President Trump and the top economic adviser touting the status of the economic recovery. Heres President Trump and larry kudlow friday. Americas unprecedented economic recovery continues you see whats going on. Its amazing. These gains are very, very broad based. Theres still too many people out, still too much hardship, too much unemployed. Were working on that and moving in the right direction. Thats why todays numbers are encouraging and optimistic. My view, we are in a vshaped recovery, its a selfsustaining recovery. Joining us morning joe economic analyst steve ratner. Larry kudlow talking about the august jobs, still going to the vshaped recovery. What does it look like to you . Is it a v . Well, they can call it a vshaped recovery come hell or high water but i think the facts are different. You see on the first chart, it doesnt look like a v. You see an economy that was in free fall, particularly in the month of april, lost over 22 million jobs in a space of a little more than a month. And then you can see the beginnings of the climb back. In may 2. 7 million jobs added, june 4. 8 but then the pace of jobs have been slowed, july 1. 7 million jobs and august the numbers that came out on friday were reported as 1. 4 million jobs. But inside that there are over 200,000 temporary census workers who will be off the payrolls in the another month or two. So, in fact, it was really 1. 1 million jobs. So the pace of job recovery is slowing fairly dramatically. One other small point, the 8. 4 Unemployment Rate is really 9. 1 the department of labor said there was a misclassification error. So that number isnt as good either. Lets turn to this question whether were dealing with a broad based recovery of jobs or something more narrow. What you can see on the next chart are the disparities in how different americans have fared. This is because the pandemic or the economic crisis didnt hit every industry equally, travel, recreation, restaurants, so on where people of color, lower income, women work and it was hit disproportionately hard. If you are a black person, 11. 2 of blacks lost their jobs compared to 6. 4 of whites. If you have less than a high school diploma, almost 19 of those folks lost their jobs. If you have a College Degree you probably didnt lose your job at all because virtually none of them lost their jobs since this started. Between women and men you see another disparity can i stop you for a second, steve ratner. Forgive me for cutting in. Of course. Were on a delay. And i want to underline this one number. Keep this chart up. So the statistics, the bureau of labor statistics shows that if you have a College Degree that only 0. 1 , 0 , 0. 1 of people with College Degrees lost their jobs, but almost 20 of people who have less than a College Degree lost their jobs . Sure, joe. If you go to a restaurant and theres a busboy and a waiter, so on, maybe waiters are out of work actors with College Degrees or youre in the kitchen or you work at a theme park as a greeter, what kind of degree do you think most of those people have . I would contrast that with people on the set right now. I think all of us have College Degrees and were all still employed. The folks in my industry are still employed, very little job loss in the finance industry in part because the stock market is doing so well. So this is a recession and a recovery that is hitting people very, very differently depending on upon their education, whether theyre of color and whether theyre a woman. Wow. Thats amazing. Lets go to the last chart. Sure. And so then the question is, the president and larry kudlow were trying to tell us this was going to be a fast and steep road back as we saw it isnt as fast or steep as they say it is, but we dont have a crystal ball. One thing to look at to get a sense of what could happen is announcements of layoffs. What you see on this chart is a number of companies have been announcing layoffs in the last two or three weeks, united airlines, 17,000. Mgm resorts 18,000. You see the airlines there in part because they got a 25 billion plus bailout but that runs out at the end of september and they will start to lay off people again. You see retailers and people like that on the list. And the weekly numbers we look at of new job losses still running close to a million, which is 50 higher than any week we saw before the pandemic. So you see the labor market starting to soften as businesses dont bring back everybody and as the pace of reopening slows. And on top of that, lets not forget my last point, which is that Congress Still has not acted on a relief package. So the 600 checks are over. The ppp is over. The airline aid is over. And so you start youre going to start to, i think, see more layoffs as that filters through this economy. So theres nothing, as we look ahead, theres nothing i see that says that that sort of slow recovery i showed you on the first chart is going to accelerate. Steve ratner bringing the data and the charts. Thanks as always. When you talk about College Degrees on this set, John Heileman no formal education, his early years are dark, no record of them. Well go to him now and hope for the best. If you look at the Economic Data here as steve eluded to in his last point there, most Public Health officials believe this coronavirus is going to flare up again theres going to be a second wave come fall into the winter. There was a Washington Post piece over night with scary projections. So thats to say while the economy is showing flashes right now and thats good for a lot of people, theres a longer term worry that carries into the fall and perhaps touches on election day. Totally. Look, despite my lack of formal education, i can see a couple things because steve explains his charts so well. One of the things imbedded in that explanation is one of the things that joe reacted to strongly, as bad as the economy has been through this pandemic, there has been clearly an unequal impact, a distribution of the impact not surprisingly but surprising just the extent to which the upper end of the income strata, the upper end of the education strata has kind of been able to evade impact to suffer many consequences from the downturn so far. As steep as its been, its been unevenly distritt buted. When you try to say why President Trump leads joe biden on the economy, who would best rebuild the economy, why is that the one remaining strut his campaign leans on and the Biden Campaign continues to deal with it, the question is how can that be with how bad the economy is and the fact that if the pandemic gets worse. I think the answer lies in the chart. For a large part of the middle to upper income strata in america, particularly the part connected to the stock market, things have not been as bad for them. There has been a lot of disruption for them socially, in terms of schools, theres been a lot of families affected in terms of health by the pandemic but they have not lost their jobs. And theyve not lost a lot of money in the market. So they continue, whatever faith they put in donald trump from the first three years they continue to put it in donald trump and i think it points to one of the great challenges the Biden Campaign has, which is to try to get through, not to republican die hard voters who are never leaving donald trump but to those people in the middle who have the middle class voter who thought the economy was doing well for him or her under donald trump, who continues to place their faith in the president , try to make that argument that he is that they are affected in various ways that arent necessarily reflected by the stock market. And i hate to say this, if this pandemic does come back and we suffer another wave that might be worse than the previous one is to set the stage for making the connection of that to donald trump and his management as Crystal Clear as possible so when we get to election day, the connection cant be missed by voters who might be still persuadable in this electorate. John heileman, let me ask you before you go. We talked about this the top of last hour but if people are just tuning in central time zone, lets talk about wisconsin, youve been there the past week. We have a series of polls over the weekend, two of them show joe biden up 8 points, including the usually trump friendly rasmussen poll, the cbs yougov poll over the weekend showed him up by 6 points. Looks like after the conventions, the chaos, looks like just a push. These numbers have stayed fairly consistent throughout the entire process. You add to that a 17yearold kid running around from outside the state of wisconsin with an ar15 shooting three people, killing two. And americans believe that joe biden will keep america safer or can handle the protests better than donald trump. This is starting to look a lot like june 1st and beyond where Trump Officials were high fiving each other after that horrid display in lafayette park, only to find out it had not moved the numbers. In fact, it had hurt the president in the polling. Right. And joe, i think, you know, that is from my experience last week, being in wisconsin through that period, the president was there, joe biden was there, the question of whether the president s racially frayed, sometimes explicitly racist, highly divisive, highly exployive use of the crime issue, the law and order issue to try to stoke fear in part of the electorate they believe is movable. That they think will make the difference for them in a state like wisconsin, to see how it actually played out on the ground in wisconsin i think was really instructive, which was that was a state donald trump won narrowly 22,000 votes. And what i kept hearing over and over again there, there are obviously a bunch of the Republican Party has been trump fied there, so the trump base is solid for donald trump. He has a lot of solid voters to work with in that state, but in the middle of the electorate, the wow counties, the moderate suburban republican dominated suburbs, they were not fans of donald trump in 2016, he lost the primary there in double digits they eventually came his way in the fall because of hillary clinton. What did you hear from them last week . Last week you heard, they saw joe biden come to town and before he came to town give a speech in which he condemned rioting, looting, burning, and said that is not protesting. And then also said he was on the side of Racial Justice and was on the side of those who want to reform the police. Came to kenosha and talked to the family of the victim, jacob blake. What they saw in donald trump was someone who actually behaved himself in a reasonable way on the ground in kenosha but the night before he came, not only would not follow joe bidens lead and condemn violence on both sides but made a defense of Kyle Rittenhouse. And for those voters in wisconsin, that stoking of division, racial incensetyive, unwillingness to denounce violence in all its forms that is what those voters do not want. I think its why donald trump is going to have trouble carrying the day in wisconsin because those are the voters he needs and who are reacting against that kind of rhetoric and those kind of voters also are present in wisconsin, pennsylvania, arizona, florida, north carolina, thats why were seeing the race so stable because trump keeps doing things that alienates the voters he needs. John heileman, thank you so much. Kasie hunt jumping off his comments on the disparities and the blatant pain there as it pertains to the economy. What are the chances a relief bill will come out of congress that will address whats going on out there . Right now, mika, it seems pretty slim to none. And ill tell you why, you know, i find this to be very hard to get my head around. And thats because if theres one thing we know that defines President Trump, its his own selfinterest. Weve been talking about that as a theme all morning. And if you look at that polling, you look at steve ratners charts, whos been hurt by this, its noncollege votes. Noncollege whites in if particular are absolutely President Trumps base. Those are the people that need the most help. What would get a bill through congress . If the president said hes willing to cut a deal with nancy pelosi then they can get something done. If you look at whos hurting, nancy pelosi is saying well send 2 trillion to help americans across the board, but in particular those americans who have lost their jobs in the months in the weeks, really, now before an election. For some reason theyre saying they dont want to do it. Theyre dealing with republicans in the senate who are worried about spending a lot of money but the reality is they could do this with democratic votes and some republicans in the senate and the democratic house. For whatever reason perhaps its the president s relationship with nancy pelosi perhaps its mark meadows and his conservative ideology in the room trying to negotiate this kind of package. Right now it is very difficult to see how they do something major and send that help to americans before election day. Kasie hunt, thank you very much as always. Something else thats obviously going to be playing into this election, the president s views on the military. The atlantics reporting that the president made disparaging remarks about u. S. Soldiers and war occasioncasualties, which h confirmed by other news organizations. His disinterest in finding captured soldiers was reported by the Washington Post and New York Times. His asking whats in it for them while standing with general john kelly, his chief of staff, at the grave of kellys son, has been reported by the Associated Press and the Washington Post. The claim that the president did not want to visit an american Military Cemetery in france in 2018 because it was, quote, filled with losers now also reported by the Associated Press. Sources also told the post and times the president questioned the intelligence of those who served in vietnam because unlike him, they did not find a way to dodge service. And this is what National Security reporter for fox news, Jennifer Griffin confirmed. Ive spoken with two senior u. S. Officials whofrp on the trip to france who confirmed to me key details in the atlantic article and quotes attributed to the president. My source told me when the president spoke about the vietnam war he said it was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker. The president would say about american veterans, whats in it for them, they dont make any money. The source said it was a character flaw of the president. He could not understand why someone would die for their country, not worth it. Regarding the french trip to mark the end of world war i, according to the former official, the president was not in a good mood. French president Emmanuel Macron said something that made him mad he requequestioned why had he t to two cemeteries. Regarding the july 4th military parade planning, during a Planning Session at the white house, President Trump said regarding the inclusion of wounded guys, quote, thats not a good look. Americans dont like that. Thats Jennifer Griffin of fox news. Meanwhile, the president yesterday continued to deny the report he disparaged the military while at the same time criticizing military leadership. The story is a hoax. Its a totally made up story. Who would say a thing like that . Only an animal would say a thing like that. Theres nobody that has more respect for not only our military but for people that gave their lives in the military. Im not saying the military is in love with me. The soldiers are. The top people in the pentagon probably arent because they want to do nothing but fight wars so all of those Wonderful Companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make Everything Else stay happy. I said, thats good. Lets bring our soldiers back home. Some people dont like to come home. Some people like to continue to spend money. One coldhearted globalist betrayal after another. Thats the president speaking yesterday. Lets bring in columnist and associate editor of the Washington Post, eugene robinson. National correspondent for pbs, amna lavage and robert costa. And Paul Rieckhoff, founder of veterans of america. And reverend al sharpton is with us as well. Paul i want to start with you, as someone who served in iraq, launched a group to Service Veterans of the military and gave his life to that for a decade. What is your first blush reaction to not just the piece in the atlantic, the confirmation by fox news, the Washington Post, the new york time times, but his comments as well. This is who donald trump is. He said only an animal would speak this way. He is an animal. Hes a disgusting human being. He has no integrity, honor, no respect. He has no respect for anyone or anything. Hes a political runaway train who will smash into anything thats in his way. To include our military. Hes attacking his own military leadership. A week ago they were trying to cut the budget to the stars and stripes magazine, pardons war criminals, attacks john mccain. Our enemies love this, our enemies are celebrating. Russia loves this, putin loves this. Nobody loves this more than our enemies and every day he perpetuates this madness its bad for america and good for enemies. How are the veterans responding to this . What do they think . Do they believe the words that have been corroborated by so many news outlets . If so, what do they make of it . What does it feel like to hear the words from the commander in chief . They believe it. Theyre paying attention. Theyve been angry for a long time because they see not only the words but the policies. They know that trump took money away from the pentagon to pay for the wall. They know he abandoned our kurdish allies. Hes destroying nato. He continues to disparage and disrespect leaders. Hes come after general mattis. No matter who it is. The postoffice, which is made up of hundreds of thousands of veterans, delivers mail and prescriptions to veterans, helps us vote. Hell attack anything and anyone in our way. Its demoralizing to the folks that support him. Veterans who maybe think they are suckers and losers because the president is saying it, dont believe it. Hes wrong. I know bob carey said that recently on the air, its important for people to know theyre not losers, suckers no matter what this man says. Were proud, honorable, well be here long after hes dogone. He is who he is. This is a guy attacking generals and admirals, military leaders not only in his campaign but also 2017, 2018, paul, said he would have been a far better general than anybody else. And constantly critical of his generals. And its now moved to such a point that as hes denying that he ever disrespected military people, men and women in uniform, he then comes out yesterday and says of people who have committed their entire lives to serving this country in uniform that they are men and women who will kill Young Americans for war profiteers. If thats not one of the most revealing statements talking about what he really thinks about american heroes in uniform, i dont know what that says. This is who he is and what weve seen over the past three or four years. Hes attacking the leadership he put in place, right. Secretary of defense, mark esper who i think is one of the most underreported leaders in this administration, he continues to side with trump and not our troops. Hes been very, very loyal to trump and trump is blowing him up now too. In the pentagon they call him yesper because he says everything that trump says. Which trump was attacking him yesterday. And esper refused to recuse himself through hearings. This is his own making. He will attack the people closest to him, his own military and our enemies are celebrating it every single minute. In my lifetime, at least, i havent seen a president who is cozier with the socalled military Industrial Complex as donald trump and has given them whatever theyve wanted. Its been its been extraordinary. And hes accusing generals and admirals of being war profiteers. Its outrageous. Its a joke. Gene robinson. I wanted you to followup on reporting that we got from John Heileman out of his week in wisconsin. And follow up on the fact that donald trump has done it again. The sort of britney spears, oops i did it again moment. He did it on june the 1st, and after that Jonathan Lemire reported that white house aides were high fiving each other about how great donald trump looked, clearing a peaceful crowd, then holding a bible upside down as James Langford said in a way i have never seen anybody hold a bible before in my life. And his poll numbers went down after that. Now we see kenosha. We can put kenosha there as well. Where even rasmussen polling shows donald trump down eight points in wisconsin and an abc poll shows by a long shot americans now have more faith in this joe biden than donald trump in handling this unrest. You have a great column talking about we have to stop trump from these openly racist attacks. Trump is shouting racism, he must be stopped. It looks like voters are doing that again with what theyre telling pollsters. It looks like it. Trump is trying to use race in the crudest and ugliest way that i have seen since George Wallace in 1968 of any major politician in a national campaign. It is astonishing and he has, i believe, in his head the notion that if he demagogues the race issue, stokes white grievance, if he refuses to say jacob blakes name, if he clearly tries to use the reconning with systemic racism as a wedge issue that there are White Working Class voters out there somewhere in wisconsin, somewhere in michigan, somewhere in pennsylvania, who might not have voted for him last time, might not have voted at all in 2016, but whom he can drive to the polls to carry the day. I think thats his strategy. I think its its pretty obviously, at this point, a flawed strategy because he is driving away the suburban, white republicans, not only in those states, but across the country that any winning republican president ial candidate needs to be elected. And in the process, and this is the tragedy, hes damaging the nation at a moment of all these overlapping crises, the pandemic, the economic crisis, the Racial Justice reckoning crisis. Hes making these things worse, rather than better. And that has not only the electoral impact in november, but it damages the country. It is just appalling, and pick your adjectiveadjective. There are no more adjectives for donald trump. All there has to be at this point is just votes. This is a person who is harming the country day after day after day after day. And we just we just got to get rid of this guy. Rev as we speak President Trump is tweeting about he calls them blm protesters, calling them thugs citing a specific piece of video. He also said these are biden voters we have to stop these people, take back control of democrat run cities, connecting the video weve seen directly to joe biden but the polling shows that joe biden has a 20point advantage on how hes handling this question of what President Trump calls law and order but the protests more broadly. Is this all he has . Why does he keep digging in on this one topic, on this one subject . Is it going to resonate eventually . Is he planting the seeds of something that may help him in november . If you look at the numbers right now, it doesnt look like it. It doesnt look like it and i think its the only song he has in his repertoire, he doesnt know what else to do. When you look at the facts, there was a study done just last week by a group in princeton. 93 of the marches and protests weve had have been completely peaceful. He does not talk about that because he would have to talk about the issue. We had a huge march just a half a mile from the white house friday before last. He didnt tweet anything because there was not one incident, not one arrest. So he doesnt want to deal with the issue. He wants to make hoodlums and looters and thugs out of a few, who are wrong by the way, and who have been denounced by all of us and try to act like thats the whole black lives matter movement. The reason its not working, though, willie, is because if you look at the underlying problem of the unequalled use of Law Enforcement and how we deal with policing, most americans are beginning to get it. They saw the george floyd tape. They saw the tape of a guy getting shot in his back seven times and the attorney general trumps attorney general said, well, he was in the middle of doing a felony and was armed and nobody saw the gun or the knife or whatever armed on the videotape. You cant tell people things that are not apparently there without people saying, wait a minute, i may be a conservative or i may be a republican, but im not going to be duped. I think thats what theyre running in into. Theyre trying to depend on people are so racist they will act stupid and they just dont have enough racist to go around this time. Bob costa, i just i havent understood Donald Trumps logic politically from the beginning of this presidency. He starts with really grim american carnage, inaugural speech, and we saw charlottesville where david duke was praising him saying this is why we all voted for donald trump. Again, started the process of really turning off suburban voters, both white and black educated suburban voters. We have gene talking about how this what hes doing in kenosha is doing the same thing. And you look at the atlantic article and what donald trump said accusing generals and admirals of basically being murderers for war profit and you look at kenosha and his refusal to condemn vigilanteism by a 17yearold kid from out of state running around with an ar15 killing people. It seems, like John Heileman said, donald trump cannot get momentum because hes constantly doing things reminding these voters that usually vote republican that this guy is not one of them. That he is a frightening presence in the white house and they want stability. In todays Washington Post i have a story with my colleague robert clemko about these issues. You see fundamentally an argument from President Trump about american carnage, as you said. Versus an argument about american character from Vice President biden. Remember the interview i did with bob woodward a few years ago of then candidate trump told us this line, really power is he said i dont want to say the word, real power is fear. And bob woodward made that the title of his book because he believed it was such a powerful quote that thats how President Trump sees politics, real power is fear. And over the weekend i spoke with Top Republicans and they believe the president s message of fear about these movements, about this reckoning in the country and race, law and order, the appeals to white grievance, not their phrase but they believe the president s appeals are working in the suburbs. They believe and maybe theyre wrong, they believe theres this quiet trump voter, wont tell their neighbor, might not tell their spouse but will go into the voting booth and vote again for President Trump. But i spoke with Many Democrats who said character does matter. And she says the governor, whos a democrat, won in 2018, a liberal won a seat on the state Supreme Court earlier this year so there are flickers of hope for democrats amid the flickers of fear from the right. If you look at the wisconsin polls that have come out this weekend one from rasmussen that shows donald trump down by 8 points, another one, a Morning Consult poll showing donald trump down by 8 points. The cbs yougov poll showing him down by 6 points all in if wisconsin. Then the abc news poll, the Washington Post poll, showing when it comes to who americans believe can best handle this unrest, joe biden actually beats donald trump by 20 points. I know that trump people Trump Supporters love to say that oh, the polls were wrong in 2016. Thats actually a gross over simplification. Arent you hearing concerns inside the Trump Campaign about how things are going now . Again, a 20point spread on what candidate would do a better job handling the nationwide protests . Arent you hearing from inside the white house concerns from some of trumps closest aides . Theres a lot of concern. Because they look at this map of wisconsin, look at where Vice President pence went over the weekend, to lacrosse, wisconsin, because if he wants to win the state again its going to be a difficult path for President Trump he needs to ramp up his numbers in in the rural areas, northern wisconsin, needs to stoke the suburban voters to his side. But the big thing for the democrats this time around they feel much better than secretary Clintons Campaign because they feel in the city of milwaukee they can do a better job, i spoke to a Milwaukee County executive, he believes black voters in the city are more engaged and enthused. If they can keep the president s numbers a little bit soft in the y suburbs biden has a clear path. Lets talk about turn out in the midwest. Obviously vital. What could impact it . What might it be . Mika, as we know, the election is going to come down to enthusiasm, which will lead to turnout or not. Especially as an election unfolding during the pandemic, all the confusion about how to request a mccaailin ballot, wh to request it, all of that is going to feed into the issue of turnout. But when you look at the midwest, the state of wisconsin, no surprise you had both president ial nominees on the ground in the same state because thats one of the states when you look back at 2016 decided by less than a 2 margin. Less than a 2 margin. So turnout is going to be everything. But its also going to be who they get to turn out. You have Vice President pence as bob mentioned talking to Dairy Farmers in western wisconsin and touting the deal of the usmca and how great the deal has been. And then you have senator harris in milwaukee meeting with jacob blakes family and black business owners. T the pandemic has just deepened the divides that existed. When you have the Trump Campaign talking about the v shaped recovery and the fact that the vaccine is coming a soon, theyre talking to a certain segment of america, the folks who did not lose their jobs, r who are invested in the stock market. I talk to black and brown americans all the time who know someone who has been sickened by the coronavirus or died as a result. I talked to one black family in new york who said every time the phone rings were wondering whos next. We know there are latino americans affected, Unemployment Rate almost hit 20 in the spring. And their vshaped recovery has not shown up in their neighborhoods. And they were not able to access the ppp funds that kept businesses afloat during this pandemic. Its two very different americas experiencing the pandemic differently and turn out for how enthused they are for the candidate they feel is going to provide the answers. The pandemic has not magically disappeared as you can see by the number on the screen there. I want to bring it back to the president s comments about the military. I talked to an admiral on sunday, former Supreme Commander of nato. He said of general john kelly. He encouraged him to speak out publically and affirm or deny the report. When i asked him why he thought kelly hasnt come out, he says you have to understand for career military men its chain of command its a huge step to speak out against a sitting president of the United States. But the admiral said, in this case its too important and that should go by the wayside and general kelly should come out and speak out. Do you think at some point in this process well hear from general kelly, who obviously is at the center of those allegations, the comments, including one about his own son at Arlington National cemetery or perhaps from general mattis . Is this a moment those men might step forward and speak about the issue . I hope so. Every morning i wake up and hope to see the headline that they spilled the beans and told america what went on. This is the time, right now. This week, this month, a time for general kelly, general mattis, general dunford, anybody in uniform close to him to speak out and tell the American People what they need to know. Trump has no honor, no integrity. But kelly does and mattis does and dunford does. You mentioned the number in the corner, whichever side, about 10 of those, maybe 20 of them are veterans, right. Veterans continue to be hammered by the covid virus, its infiltrated the military. And they tested hydroxychloroquine on dying veterans. Thats how little respect trump has for our veterans. They tested hydroxychloroquine on dying veterans and only about 600,000 of them. Since the pandemic began the v. A. Has only tested 600,000. If they care, why so little . Thank you all so much. Coming up, Health Officials are again warning about a potentially catastrophic surge in coronavirus cases which could start before election day. Plus, a pledge from a top pharmaceutical from Top Pharmaceutical Companies amid concern that the Trump Administration is trying to rush a vaccine to help his campaign. Morning joe is coming right back. Ght back the United States Postal Service is here to deliver your packages. And the peace of mind of knowing that important things like your prescriptions, and ballots, are on their way. Every day, all across america, well keep delivering for you. Eve going faster than arica, closerollercoaster love like yours will surely come my way ahey, aheyhey [music playing] love like yours will surely come my way always have been. And always will be. Never letting anything get in my way. Not the doubts, distractions, or voice in my head. And certainly not arthritis. New voltaren provides powerful arthritis pain relief to help me keep moving. And it can help you too. Feel the joy of movement with voltaren. Feel the joy of movement that gives me cash back onesome new aeverything. Akuten thats ebates. I get cash back on electronics, travel, clothes. Youre talking about ebates. I cant stop talking about rakuten. Pretty good deal peter sfx [blender] ebates is now rakuten, sign up today. Weve always put safety first. And we always will. For people. For the future. And there has never been a summer when its mattered more. Wherever you go, summer safely. Get 0 apr financing for up to five years on select models and exclusive lease offers. I want full transparency on the vaccine. One of the problems is with the way hes playing with politics. Hes said so many things that arent true, im worried if we have a good vaccine people are going to be reluctant to take it. But pray god we have it. If i could get a vaccine tomorrow, id do it. If it costs me the election id do it. I think that we have learned since this pandemic started, but really before that, theres little we can trust that comes out of Donald Trumps mouth. I will say that i would not trust donald trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information. I will not take his word for it. He wants us to inject bleach, no, i will not take his word. Should immediately apologize for the reckless antivaccine rhetoric that they are talking right now, talking about endangering lives and it undermines science and whats happening is all of a sudden you have this incredible vaccine and because of that fake rhetoric its a political rhetoric, thats all it is, just for politics. Were going to have a vaccine very soon. Maybe before a special date. You know what date im talk about. Joining us now senior white house correspondent, sv date, title of the book the useful idiot. S. V. Good morning. Let me ask you about the book as someone whos covered this white house on the inside for now three and a half years and watched up front sometimes in the briefing room, sometimes with notable questions that youve asked the president himself. Specifically about coronavirus as you have in the title of your book. When did you first suspect or first realize that this was not a white house or at least a president that was taking this crisis seriously . Right. Well, i think that would have been in the third week of january when he got on tv and said this is all under control. We stopped it from coming in from china, theres one case, i think it was davos where he said that. And, of course, he had been skipping his Intelligence Briefings that would have shown him how dangerous this virus is and just how deadly it had been already in china. In fact, our own Health Officials knew this on new years day, new years eve and the president was golfing in maralago and didnt Start Talking about it for three weeks and then downplayed it for a month and a half. It was obvious early on this was going to be a big problem when our own ranking official at the cdc said its going to change our lives for the next coming months and i had to explain to my family. He lost it and wanted his people in the white house to walk that back. And that, of course, was a big mistake. Gene robinson has a question for you. Gene . S. V. How do you explain the president s inability to stick with one message on this virus . It seems like his advisers get to him and for, you know, half a press conference he sounds kind of reasonable and then he goes off the rails again and says were going to have a vaccine by election day and were going to do this, do that, and its all clearly a lie. How does that happen . How do you explain it . Well, look, the president gets a lot of compliments when he reads a script exactly as its written off the teleprompter. He gets compliments when he doesnt tweet. And ive often thought for the first three and a half years over the first three years anyway, if he stayed in the situation room basement and they had taken his phone away, hed be up at 60 in the polls. And everything hes done to bring himself down is his own doing. Its his natural self. That is who he is. So when he goes off and starts with conspiracy theories about the china virus and suggests that well, maybe they did it intentionally and you know, come on, thats the person we elected as president. This should not surprise anybody anymore. Its those instances where he sticks to a message, thats when thats his performance. The rest is not performance. The rest is him. Wow. Government by gesture. You know, s. V. Joe scarborough here. We had Paul Rieckhoff talking about hydroxychloroquine being used on veterans in an experimental case, the president pushed it in the spring until the fda basically in their own way told him to stop saying it was dangerous. Then talking about injecting disinfectan disinfectants, asking dr. Birx to look into that. Now were hearing about the vaccine. Again hes so crude in the way he does it. Hes so obvious. As ann applebalm says of would be autocrats they dont try to disguise anything. Hes talking about a would be vaccine before a special day. I went to get a checkup last week with my doctor who looked at me with a rye smile and told me, you know, they told me to be ready for a vaccine by early november and he just rolled his eyes. He said, theyre just dreaming. This is a joke. Who are these people . But thats a question, again, that so many medical professionals are asking because this president thinks like he can lie about robert mueller, lie even about the republican intel report. He thinks he can lie about a virus and get away with it. It been proven time and again, you cant bully this virus. No, you cant. Remember, as he gives advice on when this sack seen might be available, he said back on february 26th of this year that this was going to be going away on its own. We had 15 cases that would go down to zero. A little after that, he said, when it gets warm out, it will go away. After that, he said, it will disappear. He continues to say it will disappear. Remember his previous medical advice, including injecting that disinfectant and ultraviolet lights and others. I think, you know, reasonable people will say, you know, i want to hear it from the cdc, and my doctor, whether this vaccine is safe and effective. Not from the guy who suggested running out and buying lysol. Yeah. The new book is the useful idiot how donald trump killed the Republican Party with racism and the rest of us with coronavirus. Thank you very much. And this morning, the chief executives of nine Drug Companies pledged not to seek Regulatory Approval before the safety and efficacy of their experimental coronavirus vaccines has been established in phase 3 Clinical Trials. According to the Washington Post, in an extraordinary effort to bolster public faith in a vaccine amid President Trumps public rush to introduce a vaccine before election day, the joint Statement Reads in part, we believe this pledge will help ensure Public Confidence in the rigorous scientific and regulatory process by which covid19 vaccines are evaluated and may altima thely be approved. The statement also included a vow that the companies would only submit for approval or emergency use authorization after demonstrating safety and efficacy through a phase 3 Clinical Study that is designed and conducted to meet requirements of expert regulatory authorities, such as the fda. Joining us now, morning joe chief medical correspondent dr. Dave campbell and dean of the Brown University school of Public Health, dr. Ashish jha. Dr. Jha, ill start with you and ask you where we are with the coronavirus vaccine. People are going back to school, the year restarts in a way. Ive noticed people loosening their own personal restrictions on the virus. Is this something we can look at as behind us or still more coming . Yeah, good morning, mika, thanks for having me on. Unfortunately, it is not behind us, as much as we would all like to put it hyped us and move on with our lives. When i look at where we are today, we went into memorial day with about 20,000 cases a day. Of course, we saw a huge spike over the summer. We entered labor day with about 40,000 cases a day. About twice as high as we were on memorial day. Were entering the fall with kids coming back, college kids coming back and more people spending time indoors. I am worried. I am worried about where we are. Im certainly worried about any sense people have that this is all behind us. Dr. Dave, fascinating statement by the Top Pharmaceutical Companies in america, who appear to be pushing back against the president and the head of the fda, who have been talking about shortcuts, not going through the third phase of these Clinical Trials and trying to rush the vaccine for election day. We had Jonathan Lemire saying for months that the white house has been obsessed with a vaccine as their october surprise. It looks now like actually the pharmaceutical Companies May be putting the brakes on and saying, wait a second. Were going to make these vaccines go through the regulatory process to make sure theyre safe before we start giving them to millions of people. In large part, joe, thats correct, but my interpretation of these statements from the Top Companies that are making the vaccines is, perhaps, a little different and a little more thoughtful about what they are saying. Theyre telling us that they are going to wait until they have what they believe is scientific, clinical proof of the safety and efficacy. I dont see them telling us theyre going to wait until the end of a phase 3 clinical trial. Thats a long way off. So, theyre trying to comfort a skittish country where twothirds of americans in the usa today poll just came out and told us that those twothirds of americans would not take a vaccine when it first comes out. So, as we see these number of Large Companies telling us that they are going to stick to the science, theyre going to stick to the idea of thinking of the Community First rather than any political pressures, its very comforting, but i think that the idea of seeing a vaccine even into next year, im confident theyre telling us we may do that, but that we are going to stick to the science first. Dr. Jha, we heard from the beginning of this, back in february and march when it really grabbed everyones attention, that there would be a second wave. It might come back in the fall and it might come back in the winter and correspond with flu season and be, perhaps, even worse than the first wave. Were hearing that again now as we turn out of summer, after labor day. Some schools opening up again. Some people trying to get back to some semblance of normal life. The imhe just came out with a huge projection of potential deaths by the end of the year. What interventions do you see as a Public Health expert that might blunt that and not maybe stop a second wave but make it better than so many of these projections are showing . The good news is we know so much more than we did back in march. We know how the virus spreads. We have a lot more information about how to curtail it and we are better articled going into the fall. The key things we need to do, we know them. Avoid large indoor gatherings. Thats going to get harder as it gets colder. I think in many, many places things like bar and Indoor Dining has to be really limited. And schools and colleges are certainly, you know, grade schools have to get prioritized. If were really going to do this. It turns out, as weve been saying since march, if we have excellent surveillance testing, a lot of private schools have gone out and bought surveillance testing so they can bring their kids back in. I want Public Schools to be able to do the same thing. The third but certainly not the least is everybody Wearing Masks. Are we going to avoid the second wave . Maybe want. Can we avoid 400,000 deaths as imhe is suggesting . Absolutely. Its really up to us and the tools are in front of us. Yeah. And yet you have the president of the United States mocking a reporter yesterday who wouldnt take off his mask. Thank you both for being on the show this morning. Also we have some important new content for women at knowyourvalue. Com. Were rolling out the kyv pandemic reset starting on you the with all new advice for navigating the office at home. Well talk about everything from how to put your best zoom face forward, now that everythings online, why its important to really roll up your sleeves and do anything you can to keep the ship afloat, how to connect with your boss, which is a real challenge in a pandemic. Well also show you why its so important to keep on a schedule and stay on track and how to do that. How to ask for what you need from your employer within reason, and how to execute that. And a lot more. You can find all these articles coming out daily at knowyourvalue. Com and you can follow us on social media as well. Well be right back with new polling from the key swing state of wisconsin. Morning joe is coming right back. Look at that scuffed up wall. Embarrassing you. That wall is your everest. But not any more. Today lets paint. And right now, get incredible savings on behr premium paints and stains. Exclusively at the home depot. To soccer practices. And new adventures. You hope the more you give the less theyll miss. But even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past. They may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. Lets help protect them together. Because missing menb vaccination could mean missing out on a whole lot more. Ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. Ask your doctor if your teen so youre a small bor a big one. You were thriving, but then. Oh. Ah. Okay. Plan, pivot. How do you bounce back . You dont, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. Powered by the largest gig Speed Network in america. But is it secure . Sure its secure. And even if the power goes down, your connection doesnt. So how do i do this . You dont do this. We do this, together. Bounce forward, with comcast business. Welcome back to morning joe. It is 8 00 a. M. On the east coast. Lets jump into the latest polling on the president ial race with 56 days until the general l election, 21 days until the first debate and early voting is under way in a number of states. A new poll shows joe biden with a double digit lead over President Trump. 52 to 42 . A look at wisconsin now, the latest Morning Consult daily tracking shows joe biden up eight points over president tru trump, 5 i to 43 . The latest rasmussen poll shows the exact same numbers, and cbs news news yougov shows 50 for joe biden and 44 for donald trump. And more voters in wisconsin are siding with joe biden when it comes to those protests. 45 of wisconsin registered voters approve of the president s handling of the nationwide protests. 55 disapprove. 51 approve of joe bidens handling of the protests. When asked which candidate would make them feel more safe, 45 said the former president. Now lets look at the polls nationally and the latest cbs news yougov poll, 44 approve of President Trumps handling of the protests. Whereas 51 approve of joe bidens handling of the protests, 48 disapprove. In the latest abc news ipsos poll, 59 think biden would do a better job handling the nationwide protests, 39 think President Trump would. 59 also say biden would do a better job reducing violence in the country. A lot of different polls to look at nationally and also those wisconsin numbers. Yeah, the wisconsin numbers, obviously, so many people looking at wisconsin because to paraphrase tim russert, if 2,000 was about nor, florida, florida, many believe 2020 would be about wi wisconsin, wisconsin, wisconsin. John heilemann, it looks like every of Donald Trumps efforts to run an us theirselves them campaign in wisconsin, to somehow get closer to joe biden in wisconsin have are failed, hes down as we see 10 national lip, but in wisconsin the last two polls that came out yesterday have him down eight points. I wonder if we file this under another failed experiment in this white house to preach a racist brand of law and order that has fallen on deaf ears. Yeah, joe, i was in wisconsin all last week, so i feel like in addition to seeing the data thats been coming in in that state ever since the situation unfolded in kenosha on the initial shooting of jacob blake and Kyle Rittenhouse afterwards, i feel like im tuned in on this story and was there last week when trump was there and biden was there and talking to a lot of people. I think the numbers i havent met anybody who knows anything about politics in wisconsin who thinks joe bidens going to win that state by eight points on election day. Not a single person. I do think what the numbers reflect, to your point, is that after all of that convulsion around the outbursts, again, as i said, the shooting of jacob blake, the protests, the riots, the burning, the two candidates making it ground zero last week, not much has fundamentally changed. Not just since then but since the two conventions. If you go back and look at the polling in wisconsin all year, youve had a basically joe biden at that like a high single digit lead. Everyone whos there, republican experts, democratic experts assumes were going to end up donald trump won the state by 22,000 votes in 2016. The thing is going to tighten and be a couple points of a race. But what i think weve learned from this last week and what i found really from the ground, what i kept hearing over and over again was that joe biden and donald trump both came to kenosha. Donald trump came and looked at the destruction, looked at the burned buildings, talked about riots. Joe biden came and met with the community, talked to jacob blakes family and a lot of people were very tuned into the fact that before donald trump came to kenosha, he would not do what joe biden had done, which is to condemn violence on both sides. And people saw that peach the night before the press conference the night before President Trump came to kenosha, not only did he refuse to denounce Kyle Rittenhouse, and coupled with the way President Trump conducted himself seen throughout the state, the compare and contrast between trump and biden, trump is seen as a force of division among the electorate in wisconsin, which i is why i think theres a ceiling to tighten that race up and other battleground states the same dynamic is in play when it comes to these protests and Racial Injustice and police violence. Willie, i think one of the biggest tells during that time was donald trump refusing to criticize in fact, i think he tweeted praise for a 17yearold boy who drove across state lines with an ar15, and started shooting people up, including a guy with a skateboard, and of course trump and other trump Media Outlets can try to defend Kyle Rittenhouse all he wants and courts can decide that, but if youre in wisconsin, you dont want a president who wont even condemn a 17yearold running around your streets with an ar15. Anybody in any Community Across america would want a president to condemn that sort of lawless behavior. He couldnt even bring himself to do that. Cant do the easy things. Weve seen this before when the focus of the country is on charlottesville or kenosha, wisconsin, for him to come in and take the side of someone else, in this case that 17yearold youre talking about. To your point, John Heilemann, this focus, this relentless focus on what the president calls law and order about making the streets safe, it is ignores the reason that the streets are empty, which is this pandemic. Were at six months now since people left their jobs, since people left school. The reasons that schools are empty this morning, this tuesday after labor day, the reason this Office Building and others across the country are empty is because of the pandemic and because of the response to the pandemic. Isnt this at the end of the day whats going to decide the election . This is at the center of everyones life right now. I mean, this is why we are living the way were living and the president is still at press conferences asking people to take off their masks because he doesnt think they look cool or they look weak or whatever his objection is to mask which everyone said we ought to be wearing. At the end of the day, people losing jobs, people losing loved ones, people not in school and work because of the pandemic and because of the response to it. Yeah, willie, you would think, and certainly thats the thesis of the Biden Campaign is that all these diversions and distractions and attempts to frame joe biden in a negative way that trump and his Campaign Keep throwing up and the Biden Campaign is thrusting but in the end they keep coming back to that argument which is everything thats problematic about america in september of 2020 is the result of a failure to manage this pandemic, why is the economy bad, why are these social stresses, why is there a rise in crime in some areas, why is all of this stuff, the schools, everything thats wrong comes back to the pandemic and its not Donald Trumps fault for the pandemic existing but his manifest failure to manage it. Thats the Biden Campaign argument. The thing you saw yesterday on labor day is what were going to see over the course of the next eight weeks. Well see donald trump do a lot of things. Yesterday you saw both trump and really in a very direct way the Biden Campaign trying to bring things back to the pandemic and back to the economy. That is where the election will be decided and its the one place where donald trump continues to have some hope. It continues to be amid all these bad numbers for donald trump. The Biden Campaign knows this. It frustrate them that joe biden is still ahead of President Trump on who best to rebuild the economy. The biden has been trying to chip away at that but they keep finding themselves 56 days after the election, they still find themselves behind on that question and they feel they have a lot of work. They blame trump for this economy but they dont necessarily that applies to which of the two candidates would be best to rebuild it once were on the other side of the pandemic. That, i think, is going to be a huge focus of this fall. Still ahead, just days after reports that the president insulted american troops, hes now attacking the militarys leadership, too. That is next on morning joe. Ns of america, treating cancer isnt just what we do, its all we do. And now, were able to treat more patients because were innetwork with even more major insurance plans. So, if youve been turned down before, call us now. To deliver your packages. And the peace of mind of knowing that important things like your prescriptions, and ballots, are on their way. Every day, all across america, well keep delivering for you. Makes it beautiful. Stateoftheart Technology Makes it brilliant. The visionary lexus nx. Lease the 2020 nx 300 for 339 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Find a stock basedtech. On your interests experience amazing or whats trending. Get realtime insights in your customized view of the market. Its smarter Trading Technology for smarter trading decisions. Fidelity. Every time you touch a surface, bacteria is left behind. Now, consider how many times your family touches the surfaces in your home in 24 hours. Try microban 24. Spray on hard surfaces to kill 99. 9 of viruses and bacteria initially. Once dry, it forms a bacteria shield that keeps killing bacteria for 24 hours, even after multiple touches. Try microban 24. Available in multipurpose, sanitizing, and bathroom sprays. This has been medifacts for microban 24. On day one well implement the National Strategy ive been laying out since march. Well develop and deploy rapid tests with results available immediately. Well make the medical supplies and protective equipment that our country needs. Well make them here in america. Well have a National Mandate to wear a mask, not as a burden, but as a patriotic duty to protect one another. In short, well do what we should have done from the very beginning. Our current president has failed in his most basic duty to the nation. Hes failed to protect america. And my fellow americans, that is unforgivable. As president , ill make you a promise. Ill protect america. I will defend us from every attack seen and unseen, always without exception, every time. Im joe biden and i approve this message. Major elements of treportin atlantic reporting. The president s disinterest in finding captured soldiers has been reported by the Washington Post and the New York Times. His discomfort with wounded veterans now confirmed by the times. He asks, whats in it for him while standing with john kelly at his sons grave has been reported bit Associated Press and the Washington Post. The claim that the president didnt want to visit an american Military Cemetery in france in 2018 because it was, quote, filled with losers was also reported by the ap. Sources also told the post and the times that the president questioned the intelligence of those who served in vietnam because unlike him, they didnt find a way to dodge service. And this is what National Security reporter for fox news, Jennifer Griffin, confirmed. Ive spoken with two senior u. U. S. Officials who were on the trip to france who confirmed key details in the atlantic article. My source, a former Trump Administration official, said when the president spoke about the vietnam war, he said it was a stupid war. Anyone who went was a sucker. The president would say about american veterans, whats in it for them . They dont make any money. The source said it was a character flaw of the president he could not understand why someone would die for their country not worth it. Regarding the frernlg trip to mark the end of world war i, according to this former official, the president was not in a good mood. French president macron said something that made him mad. He questioned why he had to go to two cemeteries . Why do i have to go to two . Regarding the president s fourth of july military parade planning, after seeing the bastille day parade in 2017, President Trump said regarding the inclusion of wounded guys, quote, thats not a good look. Americans dont like that. Meanwhile, the president yesterday continued to deny the report that he has disparaged the military. At the same time criticized military leadership. The storys a hoax. Ist a totally madeup story. Who would say a thing like that . Only an animal would say a thing like that. Theres nobody that has more respect for not only our military but for people that gave their lives and the military. Im not saying the military is in love with me. The soldiers are. The top people in the pentagon probably arent because they want to do nothing but fight wars because all the Wonderful Companies that make the bombs and the planes and Everything Else stay happy. I said, thats good, lets bring our soldiers back home. Some people dont like to come home. Some people like to continue to spend money. One coldheart, loveless betrayal after another. I really dont know what to say about that. Complete ignorance of the men and women who run our military david ignatius, you know this better than anybody, i found in my years on the Armed Services committee when we were getting briefings from generals, add myrr admirals, they were the last ones who wanted to go into war. Dwight eisenhower loathed war. He was always a voice of caution. He was always the one trying to tell politicians before he was in the white house to send people to war. It is said after the korean war that he inherited not another american soldier died in combat the remaining years of his presidency. He gave the warning the military Industrial Complex, he knew civilians like donald trump and the presidency getting too close to war profit yeieeers and gett too close as donald trump has done with a lot of military companies, could cause potential problems. David, even colin powell, who is only remembered for what happened at the u. N. , he was asked why he didnt seek his council, he said because he knew he didnt want him to go in there. Colin powell had that showdown with our dear friend Madeleine Albright talking about toy soldiers. Saying, again, the general who had been through vietnam, as so many of these generals had been through vietnam, no, no. War is a last resort. David, havent you found that time and time again, as donald trump insults our men and women in uniform, it is the generals, the add myrrhs who have seen war, who are the last ones who want to go back there. Joe, you put it exactly right. Theres a deep conservativism and caution among people who had to order their troops to battle and have had to pick them up off that battlefield. Just think about the little soundbite we heard from yesterday. Put aside Jeffrey Goldbergs superb reporting about what trump said in the past. But aside jen crandalls confirmation, the fox News Reporter who found these same terms, you know, military suckers for having gone to vietnam to trumps reluctance to go to the military, put all that aside and just listen to what he said yesterday on camera. He essentially accused our military leadership of putting young men and women in harms way, exposing this em to violence and death, to serve the interest of war profitiers. If you want to take Donald Trumps content for the men and women who run our military, you have to go no further than what he said on camera yesterday. Its in a pattern, in my reporting over the last four years, i traveled often with the military, would have been with the Central Command commander today if things had worked out the way we hoped. I have heard more and more people who wanted to give trump every benefit of the doubt. Who were happy to have trump exercise less authority, less insisten insistence. They like that. The military saw something in donald trump, i think of it as a culture clash. They saw somebody who came from this unstru mental world, new York Real Estate where everythings a deal, everythings transaction. And the military with its cultural professionalism of sacrifice just didnt get it. And i think the division began to widen starting in 2017. Its gotten worse and worse. Lets want quarrel over Jeffrey Goldbergs quotes. Lets just listen to what the president said yesterday and youll know the essence of the contempt he feels for the military. Coming up on morning joe, American Health care in crisis. 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Biden cheered chinas rise as a great power because great powers adhere to International Norms of nonproliferation, human rights and trade. Well, they diplomat. They took advantage of stupid people. Stupid people. And bidens a stupid person. You know that. Youre not going to write it, but you know it. I know john kelly. He was with me. Diplomat do a good job. Had no temperament and ultimately he was petered out. He was exhausted. This man was totally exhausted. He wasnt even able to function in the last number of months. He was not able to function. He was unable to handle the pressure of this job. This job was a tough job. Mark meadows doing a great job. Kelly was unable to do that. If only John Heilemann were here, he would tell you almost everything donald trump said is confession or projection. Willie, when hes talking about joe biden being stupid, he understands that donald trump himself, he knows how ignorant he is of government, of history, the constitution. When he talks about china, talking about how great china is, its donald trump who actually congratulated president xi on amassing the most power in china and having the most poe tal taryn government in china since chairman ma. He gave support for concentration camps. It was donald trump who, i think it was january 23rd, january 24th, ill have to go back and check, but actually congratulated president xi for his wonderful handling of the coronavirus and his remarkable transparency and said, on behalf of the American People, we thank you, president xi. Again, confession or projection once again from donald trump. You can hear that over to his comments about general kelly which, i mean, weve gotten used to so much of this from the president. Think about what hes thinking about saying general john kelly. President trump claimed bone spurs so he wouldnt have to fight in vietnam. He is criticizing john kelly as not tough enough to do job as white house chief of staff. The stories in the atlantic corroborated by other news outlets, a lot of those stories come from the orbit of john kelly if not from himself. The president is bashing fourstar marine general john kelly as not tough enough for white house chief of staff. You look at the comparison between john kelly as a father and donald trump as a father as it pertains to military service. John kelly saw his son give the ultimate sacrifice. The trump family admits that when don jr. Told his father that he was thinking about going into the military, donald trump told him that he would be disowned if he did. Of course, there will be a series of denialals coming from that. Thats what the family has said. Again, donald trump, again, continuing to abuse a fourstar general who has given his life and saw his son give his life dying for the United States, defending the United States. If you look at the people who are being put out there or, quote, to defend the president and deny these allegations from the atlantic,atlantic, they a people who lied for the president over the years. People who are being bullied into saying this. People at the president s side, the sources involved here, are not the people that the white house is pushing to Sarah Huckabee sanders, was she standing there and yet putting out these statements denying these accusations as a person who lied for the president for several years when she served. Its all kind of twisted and pathetic and really hard to watch. Moving on, joining us now we have a professor of history at yale university, timothy snyder, author of New York Times best seller entitled on tyranny 20 lessons from the 20th century and out with a new book, our malady lessons in liberty from a hospital diary. Lets start there. Your own personal experience with the Health Care System. Well, my own personal experience with the Health Care System is like that of a lot of americans in the Health Care System. Too many decisions are made not with the best interest of the patient in mind. Were allowed too late into hospitals, expelled too early as a result of decisions like that, i nearly died. This is part of the basis for one of the reasons so many of us have died during this pandemic. We have a system which is fundamentally not about the right of americans to have health care but which is fundamentally about the ability of people at the top of the system to make money. The pandemic has revealed this like so many other things. So, timothy, you say it was a near fatal illness you write about this in book. Youre talking about a system here. Youre obviously acknowledge the greatness of our doctors and our nurses, which has been on display particularly over the last six months. What did you witness from your bed in terms of a system that needed repair and how do we begin to do it . Yeah, the book is divided up into lessons. One of the lessons is actually put the doctors in charge. One of the most discouraging things about our system is that the doctors are totally disempowered. In fact, if patients realized just how disempowered the doctors are, we would really hesitate before going into the hospital. Were moving closer and closer to a world in which the doctors are basically just poster boys and girls for a medical system for profit. What i experienced was hardworking doctors, hardworking assistants, hardworking nurses and transporters who were rushed, didnt have time, who had too much going on, who had Record Keeping which is about profit rather than information or exchange of information. What i experienced was a system in which every time a doctor or nurse tried to do the right thing, they were pushing uphill. They always had to push uphill. When youre pushing uphill, sometimes you dont make it and sometimes a terrible thing happens. What are they pushing uphill against . I mean, thats to hear that a doctor cant make the decision in real time that he or she wants to make is disheartening, to put it mildly. What are they pushing against . Whats the resistance . Whos pushing back on the other side . Yeah, young men and women go to medical school for good reasons. They go to medical school because they want to keep people healthy and keep people alive. However, when theyre in hospitals, their time is managed in such a way that they have to see too many patients. The reason for that is a profit. When theyre in hospitals, they face an incentive structure where theyre supposed to perform procedures that can make money and they have less time to do the things that will keep us healthy over the long run. Over the months and over the years, doctors, unfortunately, become discouraged. They become molded by the system. Thats one of the reasons, i think, a centerpiece of Health Care Reform has to be one designed by doctors and which puts doctors back in charge. That only makes sense when we start to think of patients as having rights. When we think of health care as a human right, as it is in so many other countries where people live longer in the United States. So, professor, in 2016 after the election of donald trump, you put a post out about 20 things i believe its 20 things that americans should do to stand up to possibility of becoming an autocratic leader. That turned into a book for you that was a best seller. Just a runaway best seller. I think 65 weeks, the notes say here on the New York Times best sellers list. Obviously, you struck a chord. Im curious, its an ongoing debate we have on this show about institutions. You say support institutions. Im curious what your thoughts are three years later on how the institutions have held up, how the courts have held up, how the media has held up and how the institutions of state have held up. This question of institutions is one reason why i wrote on tyranny in the first place because americans have think they will protect us but the thought that institutions are only as good as each of us, thats why the lesson of on tyranny is to choose an institution and protect it. Our institutions have been as good as we have made them about. There has been terrific firstperson reporting out of the National Newspapers but, unfortunately, weve watched the National Newspapers die. There has been terrific activism of the protests, make a huge difference morally and politically. There has been some recognition by americans that we dont live in a place where authoritari authoritarianism is possible. We need more recognition of that, especially between now and november. One of the messages i tried to make is authoritarianism can sneak up on you. Its precisely when you think youre immune that you have the biggest problem. Were facing a much bigger crisis than we have to face. We have Anne Applebaum talking about whats happened in poland and hungary. Obviously, whats happened in russia under the rein of Vladimir Putin. Im curious how you compare our experiences with experiences in those countries and, lets focus, for instance, on the courts. If we get through these four years and its only four years and we look back and say, american institutions on the whole held up, is it our judiciary may be whats different about the United States as opposed to, lets say, poland or hungary or russia . First of all, if we get through the next four years, our thought has to be, how to make things a whole lot better than they are now. Donald trump didnt come out of a vacuum. When the trump era comes to an end, well need to be thinking how we can make things a lot better in freedom than in general in 2016. When it comes to the independent judiciary, what were seeing is how important that is because, of course, its under threat. One of the most important things that happened at the end of the Obama Administration is mr. Obama was not allowed to support a Supreme Court justice. What were now seeing is if you pack the courts in a political way, you allow and affect minority rule. Were in a strange situation where the party that runs the country is basically a party trying to stay in power by suppressing the vote and controlling the courts. That brings us to the other examples you mentioned. That is how an authoritarian takeover happens. There doesnt have to be a dramatic moment or revolution. There just has to be quiet progress in which the rules are exploited, the rules are bent and finally the rules are broken. Now to december is now when the rules are going to be broken. Now to december is the time when the courts and police and everyone else is going to have to be loyal to the rules rather than loyal to the man. The new book is our malady lessons in liberty from a hospital diary. Tim snyder, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. Up next, Serena Williams breaks a milestone on her quest to win a 24th grand slam. Plus, the moment that got the topranked mens tennis player disqualified from the u. S. Open. Writer and columnist mike lupica joins the conversation when morning joe comes right back. Morning joe comes right back look at that scuffed up wall. Embarrassing you. That wall is your everest. But not any more. Today lets paint. And right now, get incredible savings on behr premium paints and stains. Exclusively at the home depot. Tempurpedics mission truly transformative sleep. So, no more tossing and turning. Because only tempurpedics proprietary material adapts and responds to your body so you get deep, uninterrupted sleep. Take advantage of our best offer of the year, with savings up to 500. Until i found out what itust . It actually was. D me. Dust mite droppings . Ewww. Dead skin cells . Gross so now, i grab my swiffer heavy duty sweeper and dusters. Dusters extends to 6 feet to reach way up high. To grab, trap and lock away gross dust. Nice for dust on my floors, i switch to sweeper. The heavy duty cloths reach deep in grooves to grab, trap and lock dust bunnies. No matter where they hide. No more heebie jeebies. Phhhhew. Glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. Lets bring in best selling author and columnist mike lupica. His favorite robert e. Parkers new book series. Lets start with lou brock. Im one one of the things i do is, as an old man, is i often go back and look at the summaries of old world series on youtube once in a while. And if you look at the 64 series, if you look at the 67 series, even if you look at the 68 series, i grew up in the 70s with lou brock. I didnt remember how incredibly dominant he was and how the mans bat over 3,000 hits and his incredible ability of stealing bases, how it made him such a dominant player who changed the course of one big game after another. Joe, people who arent from the midwest just dont understand the importance of the st. Louis cardinals. That is before, you know, baseball went to the west coast. And its one of the capitals of baseball. And that team of the 60s is one of the great baseball teams of all time. Incredible. Lou brock joe, he popularized the stolen base the way mauery wills. They could change the game with their skill and their legs. You know how close they were to winning three world series. They were up three games to one on the tigers in 1968. I asked Jim Mccarville bhofs on that team, how long did it take you to get over losing that series to the tigers . He looked at me over his glasses and said, you never get over it. And brock somehow over time i always thought he got lost a little bit about how truly great he was. Hes been in the hall of fame since 1985. Mike, speaking of icons, lets talk about whats going on at the u. S. Open in an empty arthur ashe stadium. Serena williams becoming the first person to ever win 100 matches at arthur ashe stadium. Shes won 23 grand slam singles titles. If she wins this u. S. Open match she ties Margaret Court at 24 for alltime. You followed tennis for a long time. When you snuck into your 20s, people would say, youre getting on in tennis years. Serena is 39 in a few weeks and shes still dominating people on the court. Willie, what she and federer, in particular, theyre basically the same age. Roger just turned 39. I say this all the time. What she and venus have done, nothing like this will ever happen again in american sports. Two siblings who have won the way they have. They come out of compton, california, and not only changed the history of their sport, they changed the way their sport looked. Everybody was worried if she played too many threesetters she might not have enough at this open. Here she is in her second week. A lot of the top women are not here. You have to think that if shes not going to get number 24 this week, you wonder when she is. Shes incredible. The number one player on the mens side, this bizarre moment two days ago. Novak djokovic in frustration slams a ball back and hits the line judge in the throat. He says it was unintentional. I assume thats true. He wouldnt do that. I mean, he did he hit it a little harder than he normally would. He was frustrated. He was behind in that set. He was disqualified on the spot from the u. S. Open. Hes left. Hes gone. Cant play. What do you make of how that shook out. You can see on his face right there, he didnt mean to do it. She lay there for several minutes because it caught her right in the throat. Willie, they all know the rule about what they call abuse of ball. It kind of makes me thing of that hold honeymooners routine, hello ball. It was a one in a million shot. We were all watching it sunday afternoon. My son works for the tennis channel in l. A. And he called me at the moment and said, dad, hes impgone. I said, no. He said, read the rule. He hit that woman with the ball and hes out of the tournament. I thought, it just doesnt work in tennis the way it does in other sports. You can throw a fastball near some guys head at 100 miles an hour in baseball, you get suspended for three games. But when this happens in tennis, this guy just lost his chance in his 18th major championship and people thought it was going to be like a walk over to the finals but he got exactly what he deserved for what he did. You know, it did not help his case at all that hes obviously had a reputation of being a hot head in years past. You are right, the rules are the rules. Hey, lets talk about the big ten really quickly. The big ten teams, schools voting. I think it was postpone the football season. President trump striking out angrily and almost demanding that the big ten play their College Football season. Whats your take on that, mike . Well, lets see. What states were in play there for him. Michigan and ohio and illinois. Okay. And wisconsin, yeah. Yeah, whats interesting to me about the big ten is, most guys who run College Football, joe, you know this. Theyre good at two things. Opening up the stadiums and cashing checks. Now theyre being asked to lead. And the big ten, first it came up with a schedule. Then they announced the season was canceled. Then they were going to start the season around thanksgiving. Now its going to be october and people watch this and everybody wants these young men to get to play because they are getting this one chance at College Football. But its going to be very interesting to see what happens with all of College Football going forward. Once, you know, so many good schools have kids back on campus and what could go wrong with that, with Football Players joining the general campus population . So i hope they make it to the finish. Im happy baseball is where it is. The nba and the nhl. But ive got to believe that its going to be much more challenging on college campuses. Yeah, mike, lets talk about your new book out. Of course, triple threat is out. Jack scarborough, a huge fan of all your books. Lets talk about robert b. Parkers grudge match. No, wait, i have to correct. I think i confused everybody. The new book out today is a new jesse stone novel called robert b. Parkers fools paradise. Grudge match came out in may. Im happy to talk about that, too. But jesse stone is one of my friend robert b. Parkers iconic characters. And tom selleck played him in a series of television movies. And the response to the Sonny Randall novels, which were also his character, were so good, they gave me a shot at jesse stone. Joe, i was going to come on and talk about my time as trumps personal lawyer and i realized that was another michael, so exactly. But when i was growing up as a writer, i wanted to write mysteries and i did at the start of my career. There was only one guy you read at that time and it was the great robert b. Parker. For his sons to allow me to pick up some of his characters and to see how well they have been received is has been one of the great thrills of my whole career. Very nice. And talk about how theyve been received and why you think theyve been received so well and what people enjoy out of getting this book. Well, joe, what everybody has been saying is, and again, he was my friend. Ive read all of his books three times. So his voice has been in my head since i was in college, and everybody says that these books, im pleased to say, have captured his sound and his attitude and in this book, i even bring Sonny Randall in to have a continuing romance with jesse stone who is a tremendously interesting character. Hes a recovering alcoholic, a police chief in a small massachusetts town, and one of the great book sites for books, mysteries and thrillers is real books and ryan who runs it says he was blown away by fools paradise and thats good enough for me. All right, mike lipeca, thank you. Robert b. Parkers. Now also to a new study that finds that covid19 has likely tripled the depression rate across the u. S. Compared to before the pandemic. Joining us now, child and adolescent psychologist, dr. Jillian galen. She say Program Director at mcclane hospital in belmont, massachusetts. First of all, overall, what was the major message of the study, the big takeaway. The big takeaway was that we have really very significant increases in depression. So were looking at three times the number of people reporting symptoms of depression than have in the past. And did you learn anything new from the report or did it confirm because we talked before on this broadcast with you about an uptick in Mental Health issues due to this pandemic. Did it confirm to you that were headed in the wrong direction in terms of some key numbers and some key areas of Mental Health, specifically depression and potentially suicide . Yes, so i wish i could say that it was new news. I think this confirmed everything that we were worried about. You know, depression is up, anxiety is up, and a second study came out in the last couple of weeks looking at 18 to 24yearolds with really staggering data looking at them saying, you know, 1 in 4 are reporting very significant thoughts of suicide due to the pandemic. So now were looking at 18 to 24yearolds being in that High Risk Group right next to essential workers. Dr. Galen, willie geist. Great to have you on. Theres so much we havent seen yet or havent sorted through that well know about in the years to come about the impact of these six months which will quickly turn into a year for a lot of people. And since you are a child psychologist, im interested and im sure a lot of our viewers are in your take on the impact of just being at home. Schools are doing their best with remote learning, but its a kid staring into a screen for five, six hours a day trying to stay focused, not seeing his or her friends. What is the longterm impact of that on a child . You know, i think we dont know yes what this is going to be. Already this is the time where were starting to learn much more about the impact of screens on younger children, on adolescents, even young adults. The concern is really the isolation. You know, not being able to be with your friends. So much of Early Education is not just about academics. Its about spending time with friends and navigating social demands, navigating impulse control. All of these sorts of things are really critical to younger kids. Its not just about the academics, and thats not something you can replicate on a screen. Lets talk about first of all, just stunning numbers. 1 out of 4 americans have seriously contemplated suicide during this pandemic. Lets talk about some of the causes in this study. How does economic insecurity play in . The sort of economic insecurity we havent seen in this country since the great depression. Oh, she froze. Here we go again. And now shes back. Im back. Doctor now youre back. And better than ever. So lets go ahead. So the Economic Impact is not surprising. You know, what were seeing is that people that have significant financial stressors and one of the data points was less than 5,000 in their savings account, is a 50 increase in people reporting depression. That economic stressors are significant. So what do we do . Youve come on the show before the study came out and had suggestions about what we can do if 1 out of 4 among us are seriously considering suicide. What recommendations do you have for family members, for parents of those children and young adults. And also for friends. And also, what are some of the warning signs . So you know, the warning signs are people that are very isolated. When theyre not doing the things they used to do. Theyre no longer reaching out or participating in activities. Returning phone calls, text messages. You may be seeing them less on social media. You want to reach out. I said this last time. Its really critical to reach out to them and also, you know, to help them get help if they need help. To take suicide and suicidal thinking extremely carefully. We know that suicidal thinking tends to ebb and flow for most people. Often it gets worse at night when people are alone. So suicide is not the answer in those moments. What we need to do is help people get the help that they need because often again, those thoughts, they come and they go, and loneliness and isolation are probably the biggest warning signs. So reach out to those people. Offer to talk to them. Educate yourself about depression. Figure out where the hot lines are. Theres often Crisis Services in each persons town or county that you can call. They can come out to your house a lot of the time. If you need to go to the emergency room go to the emergency room. If youre having a hard time getting there, ask people in your life for help. Dr. Galen of the mcclane hospital in belmont, massachusetts, thank you so much. And we want to show that number one more time. If you need help, if you need to talk to somebody, the National Suicide prevention lifeline is 18002738255. Thats 18002738255. And that does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Thanks so much, mika. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. It is tuesday, september 8th. Lets get smarter this morning. There are 59 excuse me, 56 days until the election. And both campaigns are making a sprint across the swing states. Its election time. Joe biden spending labor day talking to Union Workers in harrisburg, pennsylvania. While President Trump heads to two battleground states today. Hell make an officia