Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200817

So we have an election this year. I heard the music and that so we have an election this year, mika . Yes, we do. Do we really . Yes. 60 years in 60 seconds for you. The Democratic National Convention Kicks off today and because of the coronavirus, it will be unlike any of the Party Conventions weve seen to date. Wont look like any of those. Good morning and welcome to morning joe it is monday, august 17th. With us we have White House Reporter for the associated press, Jonathan Lemire wait. Jonathan, this is important. Jonathan, so the great thomas ricks who has a wonderful book coming out in a couple months said that what the Boston Red Sox are doing are nothing less than a remarkable experiment. He said they decided to elevate an entire triple a pitching staff to the major leagues at the same time, of course, tom is a little off. This is single a, double a pitching staff the red sox have sent up. But its just its beyond words how bad the pitching staff is. I dont know if you know this or not, but the red sox won the world series a couple years ago. 2018, joe, feels so very far away. It is, in a word, embarrassing how this red sox team fell so far so fast. Theres days the pitching staff looks like a jv group. They lost three straight to the yankees. Probably lose again in the bronx today. It is so disappointing that just a short time ago not only did they win a world series but seemed like they were set up to contend for years. And now they are not just bad, they are down right impossible to watch. Outside of a bright spot here or there, theyre a difficult team to watch. And frankly, its embarrassing that this is what the front office fielded this year two seasons after a title. Just two seasons. And its not on the pitchers, its on the front office. Its unbelievable. Thank god willie geist is not here today to talk about the yankees. We also have with us host of msnbc politics nation and president of the National Action network, reverent al sharpton. Rev, while were passing it around, idiots in portland over the weekend once again disrupted peaceful protests. Once again, undermined the legacy of people like john lewis, once again ignored people like you and the head of the naacp out in portland that keeps saying, hey, dont distract from george floyd. Dont distract from black lives matter. Dont distract from our work. And yet, they just keep doing it. I really am very concerned that there are not some elements there that are really being incited if not sponsored by those that dont want to see justice achieved and fairness accomplished and the work that many of us are doing. And as importantly or more so, the families who are seeking to get justice. Some have trials of those that have killed their loved ones and for them to get in the way of the public and potential jurors seeing that this is not about were trying to burn the country down, were about making sure those that are charged with enforcing the law dont, in any way, tear us down. And they have been become the ones that have muddied the message and got in the way. Its frightening, but its something that were not going to sit by and quietly allow the hijacking of a movement or the disregard of the lives that were lost and the justice deserved for their families. Also with us, editor at large for the nonprofit news room, the 19th and a newly minted msnbc contributor, errin haines, congratulations on many levels. The first interview with Kamala Harris since she was announced. You can contribute to the nonprofit news room the 19th, which is really gaining steam. How did that first interview go for you . You know, i think it went well, mika. Thank you both so much for the warm welcome. Happy to be part of the family. Kamala harris and i spoke for about half an hour. It was a wide ranging interview, she addressed her historic candidacy, called her pick by joe biden audacious, said he was taking a risk picking a black woman to become his running mate but did it anyway. They really presented a united front and talking about their commitment to confronting systemic racism, to confronting the dual pandemics of coronavirus and inequality in this country and really stayed on message, not really responding to, for example, you know, the president raising the specter of Kamala Harris s citizensh citizenship. They talked about what joe biden launched his campaign on last year, the battle for the soul of america. But i want to bring upping . Reverend sharpton touched on. We saw the reckoning for race. I i remember the 2016 convention where you saw the mothers of the movement on stage at the convention keeping that issue front and center. I wonder if well see something similar at the convention or headed into the election. Remembering what the folk are protesting for, much needed Police Reform in communities of color. Rev . I think she makes an incredible point. I communicated that to the dnc we had mothers of the movement on in the 16 convention. Weve seen in most convention, civil rights leaderships and those raising the issues on the program. I have not seen that on the program yet and i think thats something the dnc ought to be concerned about. We cannot miss the moment. And we cant miss what will drive many voters that would support them to the polls and that is what happened to george floyd and others. They cannot marginalized the moment of a movement. Lets also bring in political correspondent, steve kornacki. Steve, quickly before we launch into the news here. Here we are start of the Democratic Convention, a different type of convention, but what is the state of play right now in this president ial race . Well, the one thing that is typical like past conventions is we have a wave of polling coming out just as the convention gets under way. We have our brand new nbc, wall street Journal National poll has joe biden leading 59 to 41 points. A significant lead in the poll. Weve seen a number of other polls come out in the last 24 hours, the one getting the most attention is from our friends at cnn, theirs put trump behind just 4 points behind joe biden. A lot of conversation thats the best single poll ive seen for donald trump in quite some time. The context, we have a bunch of polls, 9 is the margin for biden in the nbc poll, 4 is the margin in the cnn poll. Also yesterday a yougov poll has it at 10 for joe biden. So if you take the polls all conducted in a similar window just coming out in the last day or couple days, the average lead for joe biden sits at 7. 5 points. Id say its consistent with where we were a month ago to now, probably a little bit of tightening, the biden lead is not what it was a month ago. When you average everything out there today, i think theres still clearly a biden lead in this race. About a 7, 8 point lead right now if you look at the polls that have been out. Willy, as we said, is not here today. I think hes trying out for a spot in the red sox rotation. Hes back tomorrow. Looking forward to that. Lets get to the developments concerning the u. S. Postal service and the 2020 vote. This has been a big story brewing over the weekend. Democrats are ramping up efforts to combat what many suspect to be a deliberate and ongoing attempt to cripple the agencys ability to handle the influx of mailin ballots. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is cutting short summer recess, calling on house members to return to washington later this week to vote on legislation to block the Postal Service from making any changes ahead of the election. The House Oversight committee has also scheduled an emergency hearing moving up the date from mid september to one week from today. Postmaster general robert dejoy and Inspector General have been called to testify. Morning joe has obtained this letter of lawmakers asking if the postmaster general or board of governors committed any crimes through the changes they made to the Postal Service. On the state level the Washington Post reports that the attorneys general from at least six states are huddling to discuss possible lawsuits as they scramble for ways to give voters more options. The u. S. Postal service is walking back its plan to remove a number of blue collection boxes around the country telling msnbc itll wait until after election day to reevaluate the needs. The Postal Service reviews collection box density every year on a routine basis to ite dent fie redundant seldom used collection boxes as first class mail volume continues to ke cline. This process is one of many ways the Postal Service matches our resources to declining mail volumes. In an internal memo to usps staff last week, postmaster general luis dejoy acknowledged the, quote, uninit satended of restructuring. So how do we move that back . As we reported, dejoy has eliminated over time for hundreds of thousands of postal workers. Removed or reassigned two dozen leaders. Implemented a hiring freeze and requested Early Retirement Authority for nonunion employees. Yesterday white house chief of staff mark meadows insisted that postal employees would work overtime to make sure ballots are delivered on time and that funding would not be an issue. Well have the money allocated and as the postmaster general said the other day if its about processing ballots hes willing to spend the overtime to make sure it happens and make sure we gets ballots back as quickly as possible. Oh, boy, come on. I have a quote here, Jonathan Lemire im finishing up transcribi transcribing. We spent so much time preparing for the show youre doing it right now. Heres the deal, jonathan, this weekend at the beginning of the weekend donald trump basically said, im going to sabotage the post office. Im not going to give them the funding so they wont have mailin voting. Youve seen dejoy try to separate himself from those words. Weve seen mark meadows try to separate himself from those words saying well do whatever we can to make sure nobody is disenfranchised. Weve seen nancy pelosi moving forward and Getting Congress back. They need to be back. I dont know what the hell they would be doing in their districts that would be more important than making sure millions and millions of americans are not disenfranchised. So they need to get back sooner rather than later. Good thing they are. What else has happened . The attorney generals that mika just talked about are doing what they can do. If you are working actively to disinfranchise voters there has to be a crime involved in that, right . So theyre checking to see what that crime is. All of this centers around donald trump. You just got to love these antir, antitrutrumpers they a writing blogs on everything under the sun, other than russian bounties on the heads of americans and donald trump trying to disinfranchise american votes saying oh, the democrats and the media are being so extreme. Donald trump never said that, hes not trying to let me give you a quote that every american needs to hear and postmaster general dejoy needs to hear because hes part of a conspiracy to disinfranchise millions of voters. I dont know how that feels for him and the Board Members whose pictures we will be putting up the next several weeks, i dont know how that feels for him two or three months before an election. I can tell you, its going to sting in the years that follow the elections. I know hes got this 15,000 square foot house that he calls the castle, cant hide in it. You cant hide from history. When the guy youre working for, who wants you to disinfranchise millions of voters and donald trump doesnt give a damn what people think of him, but you probably do, your wife probably does, she served honorably under george w. Bush. But heres Donald Trumps quote, mr. Dejoy, and senators ben sasse, marco rubio, mitt romney, Corey Gardner, Susan Collins. I know this is really going to make you sad, Susan Collins. I wonder if donald trump learned susan, do you think he learned his lesson, right . You think donald trump learned his lesson . Let me read you this quote, susan and you tell me whether you think donald trump learned his lesson. If we dont make a deal, donald trump said, that means they dont get the money. That is what donald trump said. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. So sayeth donald trump. They just cant have it. Jonathan, let me read it again. If we dont make a deal, that means they dont get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They cant have it. And donald trump says this at the same time the post office sends a notice to 44 states that ballots in their states may not be counted. Now, i know theres some of you under a spell. I understand that. I understand you are in a political cult, a personality cult. So im going to read you the quote for a third time and for you anti, antitrump bloggers keep ignoring russian bounties on u. S. Soldiers heads and ignoring the fact that donald trump is trying to disinfranchise millions of voters in a fullon attack on american democracy. Heres Donald Trumps quote again. If we dont make a deal, that means they dont get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They just cant have it. Jonathan lemire, he said the quiet part out loud. He admitted he did indeed, joe. To the world that was a dramatic pause i had there. He admitted to the world that he was undermining democracy. Go, Jonathan Lemire. He did. First, lets say that senator collins lives in eternal hope of lesson learning that hasnt arrived just yet it would seem. But you are right, this is the president saying outloud what he has been saying privately for weeks, that he has felt that the mailin voting will lead to widespread voter fraud and it will be used to defeat him in november. Lets take a half step back here and recognize what the Postal Service does. There was talk along the right about how the Postal Service has been losing money. The word is in the title, its service, theres other branchs of the other that lose money, nobody is asking for them to be disband preponderance of the evidence there are people in america, particularly in a pandemic, who rely on the Postal Service, the one means of reaching a loved one, receiving a birthday card. We know there are seniors in the United States who rely on the Postal Service to receive their medication. And theres going to be a demand for mailin voting this november because so Many Americans are nervous to go to the physical ballot box this fall because of covid19 surges throughout the nation. And the president has you know, as you just said, the last 48 hours or so theres been a little bit of walking back from this, the white house distancing itself a little from the idea, you have seen House Speaker pelo pelosi, call the house back into session, it remains to be seen whether the senate does. The argument could be made that both houses should be in session. But even if if some of the cuts are restored and reports coasttocoast about delays in Postal Service well before the onslaught of mail in voting but what has happened here is that the president has sowed seeds of doubt about the result and the integrity this fall. Chief of staff mark meadows in another interview this weekend was asked, was told, there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud and his response, im paraphrasing, there isnt any evidence there isnt voter fraud. You cant prove a negative that way. This is an attempt to muddy the water and cast down on the process, which we know it could take days if not weeks to tally the votes this fall because of the pandemic, the mailin voting, and this is the president s attempt to undermine americans faith in perhaps its most sacred institution. Heres mark meadows with basically his political version of a child saying huhuh. Watch. Now there are four states that are adding to the sending out ballots to every registered voter. I understand thats a concern youre claiming. When President Trump and wouldnt it be a concern to you . Do you realize how inaccurate the voter rolls are with people moving around, let alone dying off. But sending ballots out based on a voter role. You change your drivers license but theres no evidence of widespread voter fraud. Theres no theres no evidence that theres not either. Thats the definition of fraud, jake. Thats the dumbest theres also no evidence by the way, you cannot prove that mark meadows is not smuggling billy goats from peru. Yep. Into the United States and then worshipping them on an altar behind the white house. You cannot prove that. Cant. Cant be proven. Seriously, thats one of the dumbest things ive ever heard in my life on a sunday talk show. Ive heard a lot of dumb things on a sunday talk show. You can prove that by the fact that there just arent there are hardly any cases that have been brought suggesting what donald trump has been suggesting for some time, and going on a sunday show with a response thats like a child going huhuh, you cant prove its not. Sorry, thats not justification for disenfranchising millions of voters and i dont know if you heard this or not, but this is what donald trump said, if we dont make a deal, that means they dont get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They just cant have it. At the same time donald trump is saying that, the post office, of course, undergoing this restructuring. Sowing chaos throughout the entire system and telling 44 states they may not be able to get their mailin ballots in time. Rev, heres the thing about trump and dejoy. They talk about how lousy the United States Postal Service is, how horrible the institution is. Survey sometime ago did a survey of americans and guess what they found, the United States post office is the most respected, the most favorably viewed institution in all of government. 91 of americans have a favorable view of the United States post office. And that was just from this year at the end of march. And so so again, yes, this is very frightening and the president is trying to disenfranchise millions of people because he believes hes going to lose. But this is also a stupid political move. You have Susan Collins supporting a president trying to gut an institution with a 91 approval rehabilitaating. You have Corey Gardner supporting a president who is trying to gut an institution with a 91 Approval Rating with the american public. You have thom tillis, marco rubio doing the same thing. Will ben sasse speak out, mitt romney speak out . They need to because nine out of ten americans have a favorable viewing of the post office. Trump doesnt like it because he wants to privatize it and turn it over to people who hes given billion dollar tax breaks to and use it to punish amazon and do everything he can to stir doubt in the results of an election he thinks hes going to lose. Why does the republicans stand behind him as he attacks the most popular institution in the United States government . It is absolutely outrageous. It is not only the politics of it, joe, it is also a very serious voter and civil rights issue which the democrats ought to fight it politically and in a time were undermining john lewis loss hes undermining voter rights because hes trying to neutralize peoples rights to vote by using mailin in the middle of a pandemic. No clearer violation than that. But his politics is to sow seeds hoping people get disgusted saying my vote wont count, they wont go vote. And if they do go vote, hes already written the script, i was robbed by a fraudulent mailin system, so hes trying to do two or three things at the same time all serving the personal interest of donald trump, not preserving democracy, not preserving peoples rights to vote and not respecting the will of people to choose their elected president. So we have one guy who spoke out, joe, and thats mitt romney. Lets take a listen. Wasnt hard. I dont know of any evidence that voting by mail would increase voter fraud. My biggest concern, frankly, with regards to voting fraud has been that there would be some kind of hacking of our voting Electronics System and Voting Machines would be hacked by an american or foreign entity. In the case of voting by mail, the good news is if there were some accusation of impropriety, you could get the ballots and see if the person matched the voters, whether the person was still alive, so forth, whether people voted on a multiple basis, these kind of actions could be evaluated, it could take some time but you could do that analysis. Steve kornacki, for so many reasons for mitt romney talk about the basics here, but as the president has already made changes in the Postal Service and dejoy has reducing overtime and making changes to make it harder for mail to get to people, the other almost criminal aspect of this, or corrupt, absolutely destructive would be the fact that we are in a pandemic. America is in a pandemic and at this moment we need basic things to get to people, and that is what the Postal Service does. You would think in a pandemic that actually washington would work to shore up the post office. You know, this is one of the issues when we look at how the election is going to play out in november in all the concerns are you going to get a result in a reasonably quick period of time there, this is one of the things that comes into play because you see two different messages being sent out about mailin voting and some of the polling out there already in terms of democratic voters being more enthusiastic about mailin voting than republicans, if you have, say, democrats aggressively voting by mail and republicans not doing that because the president and the leaders of their party have not been enthusiastic about it, is that affecting the way the returns look . Do you get the votes cast first on election day . Do those come in first and then theres a slow trickle of mailin votes and do they look different . I think when we talk about the potential for confusion on the days, maybe weeks, after Election Night thats where you see the possibility for it, you have a group of voters that vote this way, another group that votes that way and the two piles arent necessarily counted at the same time. And you know republicans usually do well in mailin voting. Its interesting in the state of florida, Hillary Clinton was ahead 2. 4 going into election day if you take out the early voting, mailin voting, clinton was ahead 2. 4 on election day in florida. And then on election day when the voting came in, the actual date, thats when donald trump surged ahead. Its quite possible that trump remembering that wants to be able to be declared winner on Election Night and then say, you know, say that all the vote counts that comes after that, if it takes a little while are going to be illegal or improper. And in the weeks that may follow on the vote counting because its going to be massive because of the pandemic, he spends that time just stirring doubt in the post office and just stirring doubt in these mailin votes. Yeah, and i this is part of the president s kind of ongoing strategy in the uncertainty that theres already looming over the country because of the pandemic to create more uncertainty around this election. And this is why you see, you know, surrogates on the democratic side continuing to say not only do they need to win in november but they need a mandate. They need to run up the score so that this is an election result that cannot be challenged by the president who has already said, you know, not really answered unequivocally about whether he will leave office or challenge the results of the election depending on the outcome, depending on how close things are. What we are seeing is the reality while this president is not necessarily responding to surges in coronavirus cases calling those small fires that are popping up around the counted, he is concerned about the potential surge in absentee voting and what voting right advocates are saying despite the efforts being made in congress or the efforts being made through legal channels. They are saying dont listen to what this president is saying, watch what he and other members of his administration are doing is ordering their own mailin ballots right now. If Voter Suppression is a tactic in effect, theyre saying Kamala Harris said to me on friday, people are going to have to jump over obstacles to, you know, voting in november if they are going to cast their ballot in this pandemic with Voter Suppression and depression tactics in full effect. So i think, you know, encouraging folks to get their ballots early. They dont have to necessarily mail them back in, taking them physically to a drop off location, you know, other ways of participating in this election are what are also being encouraged, even as youre seeing a push back to efforts to, you know, curtail the post office or otherwise suppress the vote. Mika, erin brings up a great point, donald trump votes by mail. His wife votes by mail. Most of the people on his staff. Ivanka has voted by mail. Most of the people on Donald Trumps staff vote by mail. They vote by mail, which is good for them i guess, they just dont think its good for the rest of america. I know we have to go, but doesnt more need it looks like theyre trying to stop the president doesnt it sound like a lot of damage has been done to the usps and it needs to be insured up. They need funding is what they need. Asap. And Congress Needs to get back as quickly as possible to specifically figure out what exactly has happened with the reorganization. I know theres an investigation, an internal investigation going on inside the post office to look at the changes. Changes that obviously could have been done after the election. Dejoy doing this before the election obviously is going to stir chaos. He knows that. He knows that in the middle if hes any kind of manager at all, you bring up a great point. Were in the middle of a pandemic, there are Senior Citizens, there are rural voters, there are veterans theyre not getting their meds. Who need the United States post office to deliver more now than ever before. They need their medicine, for our soldiers overseas they need their care packages. For Rural Farmers they need equipment, they need i mean, this is how people communicate, especially in Rural America. Theyre not going out fed exing things all over the country as much as say in more urban areas. So to do this in the middle of a pandemic and then also to be disruptive and do this before an election where he knows, dejoy knows that causing chaos will disenfranchise millions of americans and undermine americas democratic process is extraordinarily reckless. And he has a president who has said quiet deliberately, if we dont make a deal that means they dont get money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They just cant have it. So you have dejoy, who is a part of this conspiracy now, to undermine american democracy. To stop people from being able to vote by mail. And in the middle of a pandemic thats killed how many, 170,000 people . Were getting there, yes. Probably close to 200,000 by the time of the election. To have that as your legacy that in the middle of a pandemic you undermine the United States post offices ability to deliver lifesaving medicine, to deliver packages for vets, to help people in Rural Communities stay in touch with their loved ones and their Business Partners across the country and across the globe to stop people from voting in the election, thats your legacy . Thats a very dangerous game to play if youre dejoy just because you want to be liked by donald trump. And itll look far uglier, again, three months on the other side of the election than maybe dejoy feels like it looks right now. He could check out the twitter feed of nbcs geoff bennett, who pointed out in his reporting, that a lot of vets arent getting the things that they need, including medicines, medications, i thought this administration was all about the vets. I think everybody knows, mika, this administration is all about donald trump. And what dejoy is going to find out is what everybody else who has served donald trump has found out, that hes going to get them to compromise their values, hes going to get them to try to push up against the boundaries of whats legal, maybe even get them to break the law, you look at all the people that have been arrested around donald trump, all the campaign managers, all the National Security advisers, all the Deputy Campaign managers, political advisers, it doesnt end well. They get arrested, they get convicted of a felony but he doesnt. And then he throws them under the bus. But donald trump doesnt. Hes got immunity. No. Hes got immunity. I wonder if dejoy really wants to be that guy because make no mistake, right now hes that guy whos helping donald trump keep medicine from Senior Citizens, keep letters from veterans and keep millions and millions of americans from voting. Still to come, new reporting on the coronavirus. As the president pushes for schools to reopen, the cdc warns that covid rates are steadily increasing in children. The president says children dont get it. But again, they do. Plus the president seems to be eyeing another unproven treatment. First it was hydroxychloroquine. Now well explain the new one ahead on morning joe. Gummy bears . Gummy bears the open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. Its called ubrelvy. The migraine medicine for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes without worrying if its too late or where you happen to be. One dose of ubrelvy can quickly stop a migraine in its tracks within two hours. Many had pain relief in one hour. Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Few people had side effects, most common were nausea and tiredness. Ask about ubrelvy. The anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. No uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. You cant claim that because its inanimate people ask me what sort of a person should become a celebrity accountant. And, i tell them, nobody should. Hey, buddy. Whats the damage . I bought it the waterfall . Nope a new volkswagen. A volkswagen . I think were having a breakthrough here welcome to caesars palace. Thank you. But what if you could startdo better than that . Like adapt. Discover. Deliver. In new ways. To new customers. What if you could come back stronger . Faster. Better. At comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back. But bounce forward. And now, were committed to helping you do just that with a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution at a great price. Call or go online today. You can adjust your comfort on both sides. Your sleep number setting. Year on the sleep can it help me fall asleep faster . Yes, by gently warming your feet. But can it help keep me asleep . Absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. Will it help me keep up with mom . You got this. So you can really promise better sleep . Not promise. Prove. And now, all beds are on sale. Save 50 on the sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus 0 interest for 36 months on all smart beds. Ends monday. To learn more, go to sleepnumber. Com. So steve kornacki, we just got another poll that has crossed and it is apparent that the cnn poll was simply a poll of trump family members. An abc news Washington Post poll hes down 4 in the cnn poll. An abc news the Washington Post poll has joe biden up 12 points, 53 to 41 , this means nothing, blah, blah, blah as were supposed to say at this point but what it means is what you said before, theres probably a 7 or 8 point lead, the cnn poll appears to be an outlier. We had the Washington Post poll in double digits the cbs poll in double digits and the nbc news, wall street journal poll at 9 . Yes. Youre see the abc Washington Post poll is a slight drop in bidens lead, you see 12 in the new abc Washington Post poll. The last time they took it it was 15. They had one thats been spitting out the biggest biden lead weve seen in polls so its still a biden lead, not as big as it was. In our poll we have it at 9 down from 11. But if you average them altogether, its still a sizable lead for joe biden and still you keep looking at the comparisons, if you look at the polling now versus the polling we saw in 2016, its true back in 2016 Hillary Clinton was leading that race consistently basically wiretowire from the spring on in 2016. The but the size of the biden lead also right now is consistently higher than the size of that clinton lead we were seeing. There was a few times the clinton lead would get up, it would fall back to 5, 4 points, 3 points even. This lead has been high Single Digits and hitting that double digit mark for a couple months now. It can change but it is a bigger lead right now and for a longer period of time than Hillary Clinton enjoyed in 2016. There has been a remarkably consistency over the past three to six months here. We should say, in case you fell off a turnip truck and havent been following the election this year and stumbled inside and just saw this poll, understand the National Polls dont matter as much but again taken collectively, they certainly suggest that joe biden is maintaining a steady lead and what that is translated to has been four, five, six point leads in most swing states that weve been covering. Well, President Trump is scheduled to visit wisconsin later today and ahead of that trip, the dnc is out with a new television add entitled connect the dots, which calls out the president for ignoring the advice of medical experts and holding what it calls a political stunt that put people at risk of coronavirus infection. Heres a first look at the ad. Connect the dots thats what the Tulsa Health Department director said weeks after trump held a rally in their city, a rally that likely contributed to record numbers in their city. For months trump has down played the virus. Now trump is coming to wisconsin for a political stunt that puts you at risk. Just connect the dots. Im joe biden and i approve this message. Joining us is the chair of the Democratic National committee, tom perez, good to have you on the show this morning. Always great to be with you. The dots are not that difficult to connect. This is something weve been talking about for weeks and months no you. That tulsa rally, i dont know how people decided to defy science and squish next to each other for hours and i think it is fair to say that the virus could easily have been spread there. Is the focus of the Biden Campaign and democrats who are fighting for biden to quinn win to be that President Trump endangered the lives of American People . Our focus is going to be on the fact that hes been incompetent and as a result weve had a loss of lives thats unbelievable. We have 4 of the worlds population, 25 almost of the coronavirus cases going on 170,000 deaths. This is preventable. And this is why we need leadership that is competent, that is joe biden. And thats what well be talking about all of this week. Our goal here is to eunite not just the Democratic Party, its to unite america and its to demonstrate this week through all of our speakers, culminating with joe biden and Kamala Harris, that we need leadership that can build back a better america. A leadership that understands that science matters. Leadership that understands that you dont travel and put people in harms way to massage your ego and what people are going to see this week is a responsibility Democratic Party talking about the real issues. We desperately need competent leadership in this country, leadership that can rebuild our economy, get us out of this pandemic, leadership that can get us out of the civil rights pandemic, leadership that doesnt add gasoline to the fire. Thats why im excited about joe biden and Kamala Harris. Lets talk about joe biden and the party of joe biden, republicans republican organizations, the Trump Campaign are saying that the Democratic Party of joe biden is the party of Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and aoc. What do you say to those republicans . Watch the convention this week. We have a remarkable array of speakers because im so proud of all the people that youve mentioned and then some. This is a convention, joe, thats not simply for people who voted democratic in the past. This is a convention for all of america. Were uniting america and the way to yunite america is to mak sure we welcome america. Our message is clear to every voter, you are welcome at the Democratic Party table. The Democratic Party is the party of inclusion. If you voted in the past for donald trump, come to us, because you now have seen that he has broken his promises. And look at the array of speakers from john kasich to Bernie Sanders tonight to, you know, people this week got a few more surprises there, and we are going to demonstrate that we are indeed that Big Tent Party that is all united by the fact that we need bold, competent leadership, leadership that will bring america together. And then were going to get people out to vote. I have to Say Something because i ran the Civil Rights Division i watched what you said with everyone else and you were spot on. As someone who led the Civil Rights Division and i hear meadows say you cant prove its not happening, you can do it and i did it when i led the Civil Rights Division. We know that voter fraud is virtually nonexist tent. We did it in court cases. Heres a twist in what theyre up to, its going to help us in our litigation. We have to prove, for instance, in wisconsin that the judge has to make a really important switch in the deadline. In april we were able to persuade a judge that as long as the ballots were postmarked by election day, they would count. That enfranchised 90,000 voters. Every day this administration does what it does by playing politics with the Postal Service they are making our record for us. We have ongoing litigation in wisconsin well get a decision from the trial judge in the next week or two, and you know what the president is making the case for us. Because theres no doubt for that same remedy in november. What a great point. Ive been reading this quote all morning. Judges are going to be hearing it from attorneys, donald trump, once again, and i guarantee you republican lawyers know this. Donald trump is making the Democratic Partys case for them in court on one election challenge after another by saying if we dont make a deal that means they dont get the money, that means they dont have universal mailin voting. They cant have it. And reverend al, one more example of donald trump shooting the Republican Party in the foot. Not only attacking an institution that vets, rural voters and Senior Citizens rely on and have a 90 Approval Rating but also playing right into the Democratic Partys hands on any challenge of Voter Suppression. Absolutely. And this is why and im glad tom perez, who was the head of the Civil Rights Division in the justice department, is really Going Forward on this, because this is not a political issue. This is not a partisan issue, this speaks to voter rights violations, speaks to civil rights violations. Errin and i talked earlier we wished civil rights leaders and families were involved in speaking at the convention but you cant miss the point that we are talking about in the time that were mourning john lewis that there is a real direct attempt to undermine peoples right to vote and to try in some way cast doubt on people and so they will not vote. And i hope that that becomes part of the theme of the convention this week. Well, it will, reverend sharpton because it must. We are not panicking. We are putting every tool in the tool box using every tool in the tool box, litigation i mentioned, organizing, look at florida and arizona we are talking to voters. Heres what were saying to voters there and across the country. Make a plan, make a plan early, go to i will vote dot com. Find out your election status. That website gives you the tools you need. You can request an absentee ballot. In florida you can see we have an advantage, weve been out hustling the other side getting people to vote by mail, same in North Carolina and elsewhere. Do a plan, make it early, get registered and get your ballot early and get ten friends who are eligible to do the same thing, make a plan, make a plan, make a plan. We can do this and were using litigation, were organizing, educating people, working with local authorities to build capacity. We are doing what governments should do. The roll of the executive branch is to make government work they want it to fail we not going to let it happen. Were doing it together. And thats a theme of our convention, we need joe biden because we need to restore competence in government. We need to restore confidence as well as competence and thats what joe biden and Kamala Harris will do. Tom perez thank you very much for being on this morning. Well be watching the convention. And another thing that polls have been showing over the weekend and this morning, steve kornacki, is that theres been pretty good reaction to the choice of Kamala Harris as his running mate joe bidens running mate. You wrote a piece looking at the significance of that for four years from now. Tell us about it. Yeah, i think that sort of hovers here, joe biden is 77 years old, look, maybe he gets elected and if elected, decides four years from now to seek a second term at 81 years old but when age comes into the picture it raises a possibility that if he wins he serves a single term and that makes it a significant Vice President ial pick. The modern track record of Vice President s who turn around and seek the partys nomination, to win the good is good. Walter mondale was carters Vice President , got if nomination, wasnt able to become president. George bush senior got the republican nomination after being Vice President. Al gore was able to get the democratic nomination. Now we see joe biden, a former Vice President hes able to get the nomination really on the strength of having been Vice President. You have four in the last several decades that have been able to win the nomination. It sets it up if biden wins november, harris becomes Vice President , the modern historical track record says she has a good chance of getting a democratic president ial nomination in the future there. In the future, when you have a potentially a 77, 78yearold president , the future could be a lot sooner than weve seen with other recent Vice President s. Steve kornacki thank you very much. And Jonathan Lemire, of course, the president went back to birtherism in talking about Kamala Harris. I guess that was his big one, two punch. But im assuming the campaign is just throwing the kitchen sink. Theyre ready to go to try to sort of paint a bad picture of her, right. Tell us what theyre doing. Well, to this point, mika, they have sort of struggled to land some initial blows on joe bidens vp pick. Youre right, the president again he sort of danced around lets call it the racist lie of birtherism last week suggesting the Vice President is not eljail to serve and she is. We saw members of his administration back away from that this weekend. Since the harris pick, and it comes as a surprise to some observers because she was the favorite throughout, they struggled to define her, painting her on one hand as too tough on law enforcement, suggesting shes a cop leaning into her attorney general credentials. On the other hand saying shes one of the more radical members of the left wing socialists. And they have struggled to, much like joe biden, theyre not able to paint her necessarily as a tool as a member of the radical left so theyre trying to suggest she iss a tool of the radical left, it is the aocs of the world calling the shots here. To this point they havent landed on anything. Theyre still efforting a push here to try to define her. We are seeing programming this week, you mentioned the president today going to wisconsin, stopping in minnesota, trips to arizona and pennsylvania this week as well. Weve seen him tout the number of boat parades in favor of the president in the recent days which is an unreasonable metric. Whats the plan in wisconsin . Is it a rally . Are they getting people together . Are they doing that again . No, he doesnt h later this week as it will be ae some sort of crowd in front of him that he can try to feed off of it. And we see the contrast with joe biden largely remaining in delaware, while the president and his aides they want to see him travel, they want to see him across the country and that includes thursday, hours before joe bidens acceptance speech, the president will be in joe bidens old home down of scranton in what can be considered a troll move. I hope he wears a mask in a factory. Remember in maine he went to the testing facility and they had to throw away the tests because he didnt wear a mask. Its terrible. He needs to wear a mask. It is the top of the hour, reverend al sharpton is still with us. And joining the conversation we have host of kasie dc on msnbc, kasie hunt. Chief White House Correspondent for the new york times, peter baker. New york times reporter jeremy peter. And historian john meacham, his new biography ofext week. So lets get to the fast moving vote. Democrats are ramping up efforts to combat what many suspect to be a deliberate and ongoing attempt to cripple the agencys ability to handle the influx of mailin ballots and also the president said it himself. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is cutting short the summer recess calling on members to return to washington later this week to vote on legislation to block the Postal Service from manafort and gatesing a making any changes ahead of the election. And the House Committee is setting a hearing to one week from today, the postmaster general and chairman Robert Duncan have been called to testify on the recent cuts. Congressman ted lou and Hakeem Jeffries are also sending a criminal referral to the fbi. Morning joe obtained this letter of lawmakers asking whether the postmaster general or any member of the board of governors committed any crimes through the changes they made to the Postal Service and the state level, the Washington Post reports that attorney generals from six states are huddling to discuss possible lawsuits as they scramble for ways to give voters more options. Well speak to one of those in this hour, actually. Meanwhile, the u. S. Postal service is walking back its plan to remove a number of blue collection boxes around the country. Telling nbc news it will wait until after election day to reevaluate its needs. In an internal memo to usps staff last week, the postmaster general acknowledged the, quote, unintended consequences of his restructuring, which he said, quote, impacted our Overall Service needs. Wait. Unintended . Unintended. No, you intended this. Thats like walking through a house with gasoline and spreading it through the house he eliminated overtime. And lighting a match and said the unintended consequences, there was a good stereo system in there when it burned down. No, if youre in a pandemic, moving toward election day where more people are going to vote by mail than ever before because of the pandemic and then you decide, hey, i got a great idea a couple months before that time in the middle of a pandemic thats killed 170,000 people where millions and millions of americans are locked in their house and need the United States Postal Service to get their medicine, to get letters to vets, to get care packages to kids you name it. This is a time where a lot of people, especially Senior Citizens and rural voters cant get out, cant travel around the country because of the coronavirus. And youre going to pick that time to dramatic restructure the United States post office . Sorry, that doesnt pass the sniff test. You cant play dumb here, dejoy. You just cant do it. Especially when youre working for a guy who wants you to subvert democracy. Who wants you to disenfranchise millions of voters. He wants your legacy as you sit in the castle. He wants your legacy to be, as his partner for disenfranchising millions of voters, and undermining american democracy in a way that hasnt been undermined since black voters were systematically disenfranchised years ago. And it continues. And you know what is so surprising, john meacham, is that people continue to do this. I think theyre starting to back off a little bit because they understand that, actually, there may be a crime involved if youre part of a conspiracy to disenfrance chi d disenfranchise millions of voters and dejoy works for a man who doesnt know how to keep the quiet part inside his head. Donald trump said, if we dont make a deal, that means they cant get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They just cant have it. At the same time that goes out, dejoys post office sends notice to 44 states that they may not be able to handle the high volume of voting that comes by mail this november. I would ask you, have you ever seen anything like this on a National Level . I know that answer, the answer is no. No president has ever blatantly tried to undermine american democracy and elections this way. But is this reminiscent of what we may have seen in the old south as it pertained to one scheme after another for white elected leaders stopping black voters from being able to go to the polls and impact elections . Sure. Were only 55 years or so into dismantling, in our common region, structural legal obstacles to the suffrage based on peoples skin color and the 1965 Voting Rights act is one of the great founding pieces of modern america, our america. But until 55 years ago, we had structural apartheid in the United States, particularly in the american south. This is a broad gauged attack on taking structural obstacles from a regional color base to a national partisan one. And its one hopes that as jeremy once said that publicity is the soul of justice, that the attention on this will prove to be a check and a balance, but its blatant, its not complicated, sometimes these things are hard to explain or possibly there are different mow tif motives, not here we got it, man, tv, person, camera, we got it whatever that was. Mailbox, stolen election. Right. And i think that everybody is rightfully bringing this up. I think Speaker Pelosi is doing a great job, the United States senate as ever over the last couple of years is disturbingly silent on this. I think aaron burr said if a demagogue is ever to be stopped he will finally be stopped on the floor of the United States senate. No, not here. Hell keep moving. Yeah. Where are the republicans . I just wonder where the president that theyre sporting says if we dont make a deal, that means they dont get the money, that means they cant have universal mailin voting, they just cant have it. Peter baker, the president admitted outloud his scheme. Hes going to try to gut the United States post office, an institution that seniors and rural voters and veterans depend on the most. Hes going to try to gut the post office, not give them the money that they say they need to stop this voting. I wonder, have you seen any movement over the weekend from the administration away from what the president said at the end of last week to actually fund voting so americans arent disenfranchised by the millions . I think there was a somewhat on saturday evening when the president had his 5 30 p. M. News conference, not a lot of people paying attention on a saturday evening but he likes to get out there and make his presence known at this point. He said at that News Conference he supports more resources for the post and they need it, but he tried to bring it to the democrats for not coming to the table on an overall relief deal thats important for a lot of issues, including those who are unemployed, money for education to reopen schools safely. So he tried to switch gears a little bit at that point and not say the quiet thing outloud as you put it but we dont know if itll translate to actual action at the bargaining table at the moment there seems there is no bargaining. Obviously nancy pelosi is coming back to town and bringing the house back to town. This is important to republicans too. They are being quiet in the senate but they have a lot at stake in this. You hear, i think quietly, a lot of republicans express it because their voters use mailin voting as well and some of them i think are quite upset at the idea that they are discouraging their own voters from participating, in effect. Polls show that Republican Voters and trump voters are likelier to vote in person but that doesnt mean the mailin voting isnt important particularly in some of the Close Senate Races around the country right now. So theyre stuck between a president assailing the system and a system theyre trying to use to win elections. And joe, you know, you asked the question, have we seen this before . Yes, we have, actually, in this presidency. I mean, who in the world would impose pain on the American People for political gain . And in this case slowing down meds getting to vets and people in Rural America and medical devices being sent slowing down the mail system for political purposes and saying it out loud. He did it with testing. Testing allows for contract tracing, which can slow down the spread of the virus, can mitigate it and the president said outloud, i want my guys to slow down the testing. You get more testing, you get more numbers. And for political purposes he didnt want those numbers up so he tried very hard, and has succeeded by not effectively getting testing to the American People in keeping those numbers down but the deaths keep. Going up. And only trump would do Something Like this that hurts the American People, his people. His people get the coronavirus and die from it. And now his people, if trump gets what he wants, wont get their mail, wont get their meds. And i just dont understand. I dont understand the continued support, the pattern is clear and basic. A lot of republicans as peter baker said, do not understand him talking mailin voting when so many republicans have relied on that for so long. To win. To win their elections. Makes no sense, they need to start speaking out loud, especially now that the president that they are supporting politically has said we want to defund the post office so they cant have mailin voting. So kasie hunt, on that front, whats happening with the United States senate . I understand the house is coming back for hearings but republicans in the snenate, doesnt take too many republicans in the senate to have majority to pass funding that guarantees that republicans can vote by mail, democrats can vote by mail, independents can vote by mail. You need three. Where are they . Well, joe. You talk about republicans speaking out against the president on the mail, there is a very easy and effective way for republicans to make their voices heard and that is with their votes in in the senate, as you point out. That is an option they have available to them that every day americans do not have. And the question that i have and ive been working on reporting out and weve heard early concerns from Susan Collins of maine, of course, and also Lisa Murkowski of alaska has been a defender of the u. S. Postal service. Think about states with republican representatives who have so many of these people who are what they call last mile deliveries. Whos going to drive down that country road to deliver mail at probably not a business profit. Its not these Big Companies looking to make a profit. Its the United States Postal Service which is paid for in part by taxpayer money. So my question is how much pressure is coming to bear on mitch mcconnell. And this is going to be affected by the same dynamic driving everything which is if these republicans speak out against donald trump, theyre going to lose support from republicans in their home state because hes likely to attack them. But if they dont speak out against him, in this case as you point out, they likely are losing voters who would otherwise mail in their ballots, who are too concerned about coronavirus to go out to the polls. So this is a bind and this is a situation where what weve talked about over and over and over again on the show about republicans and the president , this is something that actually is going to impact daytoday americans everyday lives ability to get those services, medications, other things they need from the mail. So i think the political sort of dynamics here have gotten to the point something may change but well have to see. I think so. But mika, take a state like montana. Do you think montana relies on the United States post office . Do you think their voters rely on that . Could donald trump this is like a huge inkind check donald trump is giving to steve bullock. What about maine, another rural state that depends so much on the United States post office. How much more could donald trump be hurting Susan Collins campaign by stiffing rural voters. You know, whether youre talking about montana or North Carolina or maine or colorado or arizona, the post office is critical for rural voters, vets, and seniors. And trump is under mining the post offices means to deliver medicine for seen areas, supplies for farmers and people in the rural community. And mika, letters to vets that just dont arrive. This will hurt republicans in their races. This will hurt them, but it wont hurt trump because what he wants to do is just undermine the sanctity of the election. He wants to undermine the results. He wants to muddy the waters and he will hurt his own people, eventual republicans in washington, in order to do it. Which is why i dont understand why mitt romney stands alone, maybe one or two other guys who might Say Something about this. Lindsey graham did say that it should lindsey said something. But is something going to happen to shore up the post office because we need to see that because at this point things arent going well for the post office. Lindsey graham now that you mentioned that, i remember Lindsey Graham did actually say, the post office needs its funding. But its got to get it. Is Martha Mcsally going to say that . Where is Corey Gardner in colorado . What about thom tillis in North Carolina, is he going to be quiet while rural voters in North Carolina get screwed by donald trump and his efforts to undermine the post office . Hard to say. Well see. A number of new polls out this weekend. The latest nbc news wall street journal poll has joe biden with a lead over donald trump 50 to 41 . In 11 combined states, biden is ahead of trump by 7 points, 49 to 42 . Biden leads on the issue of handling the coronavirus, 49 to 33. Handling Race Relations 53 to 29. Trump leads on handling the economy, 48 to 38. Biden holds a 10 point National Lead over the president in the new cbs news yougov poll 52 to 42 . The latest cnn ssrs poll has biden up only 4, 50 to 46 . But the cnn poll seems to be an outlier. The latest Washington Postnational Weather Service news poll finds biden and harris leading trump and pence, 53 to 41 among adults. Jeremy peters the argument in 2016, an argument we made as well is that there were hidden trump voters, people that werent telling pollsters that they were going to vote for donald trump. Question a lot of democrats have four years later, and we said there were hidden vote we thought there would be hidden trump voters four years ago, i dont think thats the case now. But you went out and looked to see. What did you find . Right. So i think, actually, this is a really good parallel to what we were talking about with the Postal Service and trumps inability to deal with the problem at hand here. The problem is low standing in the polls, his popularity. He attacks the polls. He attacks the systems. Says the system is to blame instead of going out and trying to launch a robust Absentee Ballot Program he attacks the mailin voting system. With the hidden voters what i found is talking to pollsters and voters out there, this is a comforting narrative for Trump Supporters. In the 2016 election, the media got an awful long wrong about Donald Trumps levels of supports. But by and large, the polls were correct on a National Level, right. They showed trump losing the p po popular vote, thats what happened. You look at that and now combined with the political climate, people across the spectrum, left, right, center, are more reluctant to express political opinions for fear of offending someone embarrassing themselves, its left a lot of supporters and pollsters to ask whether or not the polls are missing people, people are not being straightforward with the pollsters. What i found is while there are people who are reluctant to talk about their political views, that doesnt mean theyre lying to pollsters. To the extent that that is happening, joe, its probably a pretty small, small sliver of the vote thats getting recorded as undecided or for joe biden. I mean, think about it, the idea that somebody is going to tell a pollster, im voting for joe biden but im supporting donald trump. Probably arent that many people like that out there. Yeah. And again, four years ago i think things were quite different, you dont see we certainly dont hear as much of it four years later. But reverend al, the question that is on a lot of peoples minds, again talking about four years ago versus now is whether Kamala Harris selection is going to help turn out black voters, hispanic voters, the voters that didnt come out as much four years ago as usual. As you know better than anybody, the black vote was down for the first time in 20 years in 2016. What does 2020 look like . I think that the selection of Kamala Harris as a Vice President ial candidate and her Going Forward in the way she has, in terms of the last two or three days since shes had that, will, in many ways, reap high dividends in terms of black votes. One because i think shes taken on those issues and so has joe biden. And i hope they continue to. And theyve done it without excludeing other americans. The fact is most americans want to see these issues now dealt with, like criminal Justice Reform and others. She came out in her first interviews with errin so shes going to where the Media Outlets that were neglected in 16, that have credibility and trust in the black community. And if they continue in this way, i think they will be the ones that will be the beneficiaries of a victory. I might remind you, joe, that Hillary Clinton lost michigan by 12,000 votes. Two megachurches in the black community could have given her those votes, they didnt go in. I think that was a mishandling by her campaign people. I think hillary knew better, she was guided by her campaign people. I do not think that Kamala Harris and joe biden will make that mistake. I dont think the people around them will make that mistake. Not only will they go in, i think theyll go in saying the right things, touching the right issues and having a track record to back it up. I think if donald trump thinks hes going to get 20 of the black vote as he predicted, he needs to take some of that stuff he says will cure coronavirus because thats just as much of a fact of cleaning up coronavirus as it is for him getting the 20 of the black vote this year. Yeah. The polls that were looking at show maybe 8 , 9 of black voters are saying theyll support donald trump right now. Peter baker it doesnt feel like it but its Convention Week for the democrats. What are you following this week . Its an interesting week, obviously. Weve never seen any conventions quite like this. This weekend, next week are going to test our politics how much are people going to Pay Attention to the virtual reality. Its a shame for anybody who enjoys politics because the conventions themselves are this extraordinary moment in our american life, in both republican and democrats. Journalists, anybody interested in politics can gather in one place and sort of share this moment of democracy. Tonight i think youll see a fascinating lineup that ranges from Bernie Sanders on the left to john kasich on the right. Im writing about john kasich right now, a republican, former government of ohio, has not switched parties but has endorsed joe biden. Tom perez was on your show earlier saying we welcome everybody but not every democrat feels that way, a number are quite upset that john kasich will be given a prominent spot at their convention. They say aoc should be given more time not john kasich who doesnt represent the values they represent. So how do you stand up for your principles will be on display tonight. But joe biden wants everybody to vote for him, hes not running to advance a particular policy or agenda so much as hes running to end the Trump Presidency and hes saying to people ill welcome anybody, including people like john kasich on board if they want to becausi because this is a larger issue than any set of agenda items. Thats always a difficult balancing act. I know george w. Bush would invite democrats to the white house when he first got there. Ted kennedy spent a lot of time there. He was constantly working democrats in his administration before 9 11, which led to republicans griping about the fact they were fighting against him the whole time and there he was trying to embrace it. But again, thats what parties do when they try to expand their electorate. John meacham, it seems like a long time since a convention mattered. 1976, of course, reagan and ford. 1960, jfk, through the brute handling of his younger brother bobby, get lbj on the ticket. 1944, the democrats push Henry Wallace off the ticket, a guy accused of being a fellow travel traveler. A bit soft on stalin, the soviet union. And the difference between what his presidency would have looked like and harry trumans, one of the great turning points in modern american history. So conventions can matter. Of course this one, i wonder if most americans will know that were having a convention this week. I think a lot of americans will, because with all respect to peters point, yes, well sort of miss the crowd sourcing but most people encounter this on their screens and so this is a programmed piece of democratic dialogue that will come to people where they are. And so, to some extent, i think thats an interesting experiment. As you say, the last time one was decisive in terms of the nomination buzz kanswas kansas 76 where president ford graciously calls government reagan down to speak after his acceptance speech and everybody recognizes we nominated the wrong guy. But the last Convention Speech that mattered was 1988, George Herbert walker bush went into new orleans having been in public life for a long time but a lot of people didnt have a sense of him, he was forced into using the first person pronoun, which he hated and talked about i am that man. For years he was upset that he had actually done that. Even though it was very effective. I remember late in life he said he didnt like i am that man stuff. 1992, there was that very successful reintroduction of bill and Hillary Clinton at Madison Square garden and that was important. But by and large, all these are wonderful stories but theyre analog stories. Were in a country where a pandemic is killing us, wrecking our economy and we have a president devoted, apparently, to defying and denying facts. He thinks if you dont test you dont have cases of a virus. He thinks if you dont count the votes he wont lose. And so its just a different time. Id argue the closest thing we have would be 32 and 68. And maybe that seems hyper bobo but i dont think it is. Its a fundamental turning point election, right. A let of elections, weve talked about this, a lot of elections when you look back, they were ferocious and money got spent, blood, sweat and tiears but did it matter we had the twebetweene 30 yard lines. In the Campaign Year saying kennedy versus nixon doesnt make any difference. That was the Kennedy Campaign doesnt make a difference. The answer as it turned out was yeah, but this one, nobody is posing the question about whether joe biden or the incumbent president makes a difference. Its an enormous difference. This is one of the greatest tests of citizenship well see for having to be constantly vigila vigilant. 1932, 1980, 2020, and that quote that george h. W. Bush said that night, i think it really moved people because he had been mocked for not being an articulate man on the campaign trail he said i am a quiet man but i hear the quiet people that others dont. It was a moment that helped him go from a double digit deficit to actually moving ahead. John meacham thank you very much. Hell be speaking at the dnc on thursday night. We look forward to that. Peter baker and jeremy peters, thank you both for your reporting. Still ahead on morning joe, more on the dnc, one of the 17 rising stars slated to speak, the former mayor of south bend, indiana, Pete Buttigieg is standing by. He joins the conversation next. And the question is whether a Virtual Party gathering will bring ability the kind of moments that joe and meacham were discussing that weve seen in the past on the convention flow. We have this report. Covid is affecting everything in america including the tradition that every four years political enthusists will gather to choose a candidate for president of the United States. Not this year. For decades political conventions were a forum for history making surprises. 1968, chicago, outside the Convention Hall rage against the democratic machine. A war against the war. Pitch battles between cops and young protesters. Inside the democrats went after each other. And with George Mcgovern as president of the United States, we wouldnt have to have these tactics in the streets of chicago. Mr. Daily is not pleased. The party was deeply wounded. 1980, democrats divided again. Jimmy carter was the incumbent, but ted kennedy tried to unseat him. Kennedy lost the nomination but won the night. And the dream shall never die. The crowd electrified chanted for him not to leave the stage. Carter, however, was determined to protect a united front. Kennedy did leave the stage but not before stopping to shake hands with a young bill clinton. Carter lost to Ronald Reagan. Reagan kept his party guessing. We may have a ticket, Ronald Reagan and gerald ford reported out of this 1980 Republican National convention. A night of suspension and then cooler heads prevailed. Reagan chose george h. W. Bush as his running mate. I am recommending to this convention that tomorrow when the session reconvenes that george bush be nominated when his turn came in 1988, bush made a fatal error in his acceptance speech. Read my lips. No new taxes. As president he had to raise taxes and deal with a third party maverick, ross perot. Just when both parties nearly succeeded in making the conventions as predictable as possible along came covid and our new virtual reality. Stand by and stay tuned. Ive said it in the past and ill say it again, thats the best job in american broadcasting is to be a floor consider. So dent at a national convention. Tom brokaw, nbc news. Tom brokaw, nbc news im looking for my client. Im his accountant. Im so sorry. Hey hey man, youre here you dont trust me here in vegas, do you . Uh, well, i thought we had a breakthrough with the volkswagen. We did, yeah we broke through. Thats the volkswagen . Thats the cross sport. Wow. Seatbelts please just tell me where were going. Toim releasing a plan to save lives in the months ahead. Irus. We need to increase federal support for testing, doubling the number of drivethru testing sites. We absolutely need a clear message from the very top of our federal government that Everyone Needs to wear a mask in public. Every single Frontline Worker should have the personal protective equipment that they need to be safe. We need to support schools and childcare programs so parents, if and when they can return to work, are confident that their children will be safe and cared for. And finally, we need to protect the populations most at risk our seniors, vulnerable populations with preexisting conditions. We need real plans, real guidelines, with uniform nationwide standards. Its a simple proposition folks, were all in this together. We gotta fight this together. Well emerge from this stronger because we did it together. Im joe biden and i approve this message. I thought it had to be thick to protect. But new always discreet is made differently. With ultrathin layers that turn liquid to gel and lock it inside. For protection i barely feel. New always discreet. That gives me cash back onesome new aeverything. Akuten thats ebates. I get cash back on electronics, travel, clothes. Youre talking about ebates. I cant stop talking about rakuten. Pretty good deal peter sfx [blender] ebates is now rakuten, sign up today. Joining us now former president ial candidate and former mayor of south bend, indiana, Pete Buttigieg. Great to have you back on the show. Mayor pete, im going to talk about admiral mcraven here. He has an oped in the Washington Post and im sure youve seen it. He writes donald trump has planted the seeds of doubt in the minds of americans, if the president doesnt trust the court, the military, the supreme court, medical professionals, Election Officials and postal workers and why should we . If the americans stop believing in the systems of institutions, what is left by chaos . What message should the democrats be delivering this week as we have a president who has, in fact, committed a full out assault on all of these institutions . Well, democrats believe in america, we believe in american democracy, and we believe that our institutions should always be improved, always be reformed but never be dismantled. When we look at other countries, developing countries around the world or sizing up the state of the u. S. Say 200 years ago, what are the basic things youd look at, can they run an election . How do they do it handling disease . Do they have a functioning Postal Service . These are the basic yardsticks of civilization and we are falling back on all of them. I think the admiral is right. The president seems to have a project of undermining the confidence of the American People in our own institutions in a way that undercuts democracy itself. And at this point, you know, the president is losing. If nothing changes he will lose big in november. We the public need to be prepared for the president to attack the democratic system itself after the fact to attack the legitimacy of the election that will have unseated him. I dont want to get too far ahead of ourselves we have a lot of work to do to make sure the election rights are the right results, thats part of whats happening today with the Democratic National convention. But we have to be ready on the back end to resist any effort to under mine the american democracy itself. Kasie hunt is with us and has a question for you. You are one of the rising stars at the convention this week as we mentioned earlier. And i obviously your president ial campaign earned a lot of notice and accolades, your performance in iowa that sets you up for your own political future so you may not want to answer a direct question about whether you would take a job in a possibly biden administration, if you wont do that and i would ask you to, what kind of work do you want to be doing in the next four years if, in fact, joe biden and Kamala Harris win this next election . What i know is that i will do everything i can to support the success of a biden harris administration. To answer your question, i would love a chance to return to Public Service if that makes sense and thats what the new president decides. Thank you. I appreciate that. That honesty. Public service is the most rewarding experience of my life. It may or may not make sense in the near future but i know ill do everything i can to support this Incoming Administration just as right now im doing everything i can to make sure there, in fact, is a biden harris administration. And im looking forward to continuing to work on the issues that were such a big part of the campaign, whether its service and the need to create more opportunities for national service, civilian as well as military for americans, whether its dealing with issues like mental health. Ive never seen a bigger gap between how often i got asked about issues by a reporter and how much i got asked about an issue from voters, which was mental health, it came up over and over again. I remain interested in americas credibility around the world. And finally there are so many issues that need attention from all of us. Who knows exactly what shape that will take but i know between now and november i have to do everything in my power to take back the white house and with my organization win the era were backing a lot of other fantastic candidates. We must not make the mistake of treating the presidency like the only office that matters. Republicans were smart about this starting a generation ago building up majorities, building up power in our american system that puts so much power in those local and state offices. We have to make sure were paying attention to that too. We have amazing candidates not just the leaders known national liv but phenomenal leaders of the Democratic Party running for the state and local seats. Mayor pete, i have seen as the lineup when youre speaking and others, it shows some of the progress weve seen. I remember when i ran for president , 2004, the party was struggling with samesex marriage issues. Ive seen you well received everywhere from dining with me in harlem to South Carolina people mobbing you. So we brought the country a long way there, Kamala Harris on the ticket, i remember as a kid shirley couldnt get there. The progress we made, though, is at risk and i think part of what i would ask you, are you, during the Campaign Going to talk about the progress made but also that its under attack if this present administration is reelected, who has made no secret about they are against many of the things we fought to achieve in this country from various aspects of the population. Thats right. Because our progress has been so extraordinary and powerful in so many ways as a congress. Theres a danger of assuming its permanent. Its not. We can move backwards in any number of these areas. And part of what im hoping to speak to is the progress that has been made. Look at lgbtq equality, it was less than a decade ago and joe biden was ahead of the Democratic Party when he came out and said that Marriage Equality should be the law of the land. The change have been swift and if you look at the change between 2010 and 2020, none of that is secured or guaranteed, especially when you have an administration that is committed to dismantling a lot of these rights and protections. The other side is the positive side, what joe biden and Kamala Harris and their administration could deliver. If weve seen this kind of change between 2000 and 2020, imagine the kind of change we can see between 2020 and 2030 or 2040 if we have the right kind of leadership. Right. Im just curious, given your run for the presidency and being so super young and i just wonder what you learned along the way . What was your biggest take away as you build your future, hopefully, in politics . Im still processing some of what i learned on the campaign trail because its an out of body experience. You feel like youre in the whole country at the same time because youre moving around so much. The biggest things i take away have to do with the desire for belonging that you feel in so many ways and so many communities. People have been excluded, people have been seeking ways to connect with fellow americans and to me that also creates a huge opportunity to really realign the coalition of democrats right now. The number of times id give what i thought was a pretty progressive speech and somebody would come up to me afterwards and say im a republican but im going to support you this year i think, part of me is thinking thats something if you think about the policies im pushing forward on. Its because its not just about ideology, its about a sense our country can move forward. I see that sense animating the party right now. I know from getting to note them upclose that joe biden and Kamala Harris believe in that project of knitting together and unifying the American People and thats what we need more of, because we dont have to take whats given that were going to be locked into these tribal partisan lines forever. American majority is out ahead of what you see in washington today. And 2020 for the darkness and difficulty, it could go down in history as the year we began to shift toward a new openness and a new sense of belonging in this country. Pete buttigieg thank you so much. Its great to see you. Thanks for being on the show this morning. Youre welcome. Coming up, at least a dozen states are preparing to mount a Legal Defense against interference with the Postal Service ahead of the fall election. Joining us now, connecticuts attorney general, william tong, hes working with attorneys general across the country to ensure the usps is equipped to handle mail in voting. My first question for you is, any action that you take as a group legally, will it be carried out in time to actually have an impact on this election and on what already has happened to the Postal Service in. Yes, good morning, mika. Thank you for having me this morning. Attorneys general across the country from connecticut to Washington State have mobilized already. Ive been on calls nonstop since the president stated his intention to interfere with this election and undermine service. Were considering every possible legal claim and action, and were going to do what it takes to protect this election and country and democracy. Legal action often takes time to carry through. Weve got a certain amount of time between now and the election. And there are already things that have happened inside the Postal Service that are impacting service. So, i guess my question is, is what youre doing legally going to be able to be done in time to impact the Postal Service in a positive way so the election can be carried out fairly . Absolutely. Im not going to give away our whole strategy, but we have a plan to address the Service Breakdowns that have already occurred under this postmaster general and this president. Sxoo were focused like a laser on making sure this election is fair, transparent and accurate. What the president s trying to do is undermine confidence in this election and people should know they should vote, vote by mail if they have the opportunity to do so and they should vote confidently. We are going to do everything in time, quickly, the swiftly, to make sure all of that is done. Kasie hunt, jump in. So, mr. Attorney general, im curious, what have you become aware of in your capacity as attorney general, what issues have been brought to your attention in connecticut with the Postal Service, what is actually happening on the ground . I put out an announcement encouraging people in connecticut to report to my office with whats happening with their mail. Im aware many complaints, our emails and phone lines are flooded with complaints. A voter in connecticut requested a votein ballot on august 4th. Our primary was august 11th. He didnt get it until august 13th, two days until after the primary. Were seeing not just this with absentee ballots but medicine, bills, invoices, School Reopening notices, things that we all really depend on not just for our lives but life, in many circumstances. And what have you identified as the source of these problems, just really quickly, the machines, the overtime . What is it . So, its all of those things. And its the intentional undermining of the Postal Service and the dismantling, frankly, of a system. Its the Postal Service, right, not the postal business. And for years when i was growing up, we could depend on the Postal Service to deliver no matter what. Snow, sleet, dark of night. Thats no longer whats happening. And theyre unwilling to go the extra mile and were very concerned about this, which is why state attorneys general have mobilized. William tong, thank you very, very much for being on. Well be following this. And an update now on the coronavirus. The u. S. Has surpassed 170,000 coronavirusrelated deaths nationwide, according to an nbc news tally. The United States has at least 5. 4 million confirmed cases in total of the novel coronavirus, the highest in the world. And likely an undercount as the country still has not ramped up testing to recommended levels. This as Public Health officials remain concerned about a possible fall resurgence. According to the new york times, 200,000 more people have died than usual since march, according to analysis of estimates from the centers for Disease Control and prevention. Thats about 60,000 higher than the number of deaths linked to the coronavirus, and suggests that the official death counts may be substantially underestimating the overall effects of the virus. And lets just repeat again. Mika touched on it, but weve been saying it since march. Public Health Officials have been saying it since march. If you look at history, if you look at the 19181919 pandemic, fall was the worst time when you had a combination of flu season and spanish flu pandemic at the same time. Thats what Health Officials have been concerned about and urgently warning us about since the spring. Schools opening. Thats what we have to prepare for this fall. Lets hope that its not as bad as history and medicine and science suggest it will be. But we have to be prepared, and it would help if the president of the United States understood that and started telling people the truth about a pandemic thats killed 170,000 people. Exactly. Now back to the post office. Well tell you what House Democrats are going to be doing to try to preserve and protect the post office after a quick break. If we dont make a deal, that means they dont get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. Just cant have it. N voting just cant have it some Companies Still have hr stuck between employees and their data. Entering data. Changing data. More and more sensitive, personal data. And it doesnt just drag hr down. It drags the entire business down with inefficiency, errors and waste. Its ridiculous. So ridiculous. With paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. Visit paycom. Com, and schedule your demo today. We are not here to curse the darkness, we are here to light a kajz. And we can have faith in the future, only if we have faith in ourselves. We stand at a turning point of history. A whole world looks to see what we shall do. So we had an election this year. Heard the music. So, we have an election this year, mika . Yes, we do. That was 60 years and 60 seconds for you, the Democratic National Convention Kicks off today, and because of the coronavirus, it will be unlike any of the Party Conventions weve seen to date. Lets get to the fastmoving developments concerning the u. S. Postal service and the 2020 vote. Wow. This has really been a big story brewing over the weekend. Democrats are ramping up efforts to combat many suspect to be a deliberate and ongoing attempt to cripple the agencys ability to handle the unflux of mailin ballots. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is cutting short summer recess, calling on house members to return to washington later this week to vote on legislation to block the Postal Service from making any changes ahead of the election. The House Oversight committee has also scheduled an emergency hearing moving up the date from midseptember to one week from today. Postmaster general and board of governors chairman Robert Duncan has been called to testify on the recent cuts. Congressman ted lew and Hakeem Jeffries have sent this letter asking if the postmaster general or any members of the board of governors committed any crimes through the changes theyve made to the Postal Service. And on the state level, the Washington Post reports that that the toeattorneys general f at least six states are huddling to think of possible lawsuits as they scramble to give voters more options. Meanwhile the u. S. Postal service is walking back its plan to remove a number of blue collection boxes around the country, telling nbc news it will wait until after election day to reevaluate its needs. According to a usps spokesperson, the Postal Service reviews to identify redundant or seldom used collection boxes as firstclass mail volume continues to decline. Based on the density testing, boxes are identified for potential removal and notices are placed on boxes to give customers an opportunity to comment before the removal decision is made. This process is one of the many ways the Postal Service makes adjustments to our infrastructure to match our resources to declining mail volumes. In an internal memo to usps staff last week, postmaster general acknowledged the quote of unintended consequences of his restructuring which he said, quote, impacted our Overall Service needs. How do we change that back . Whats the damage thats been done . As weve reported, dejoy has eliminated overtime for postal workers, removed postal leaders, implemented a hiring freeze and implemented early retiring authority for nonunion employees. Yesterday white house chief of staff mark meadows insisted that postal employees would work overtime to make sure ballots are delivered on time and that funding would not be an issue. Well have the money allocated. As postmaster general dejoy said the other day, if its about processing ballots, hes willing to spend overtime to make sure it happens and make sure we get ballots back as quickly as possible. So, ive got a quote here, Jonathan Lemire, im finishing up transcribing. You know we spend so much time preparing. Heres the deal, jonathan, this weekend at the beginning of the weekend, donald trump basically said im going to sabotage, im going to sabotage the post office. Im not going to give them the funding so they wont have mailin voting. Weve seen dejoy try to separate himself from those words. Weve seen mark meadows trying to separate themselves from those words saying well do whatever we can to make sure nobody is disenfranchised. Weve seen nancy pelosi moving forward and Getting Congress back. They need to be back. I dont know what the hell they would be doing in their districts that would be more important than making sure millions and millions of americans are not disenfranchised. So they need to get back sooner rather than later. Good thing they are. Lets see, what else has happened . The attorney generals mika just talked about are doing what they can do. Yes, ive got to believe, if you were working actively to disenfranchise voters, there has to be a crime involved in that, right . Theyre checking to see what that crime is. All of this centers around donald trump. Youve just got to love these antitrumpers. They are literally writing blogs on everything under the sun. Everything under the sun other than russian bounties on the heads of americans and donald trump trying to disenfranchise millions of votes. Oh, the democrats, the media, are being so extreme. Donald trump never said that. Hes not trying let me give you a quote, jonathan, that every american needs to hear, if we dont make a deal, donald trump said, that means they dont get the money. That is what donald trump said. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. So sayeth donald trump. They just cant have it. Jonathan, let me read it again. If we dont make a deal, that means they dont get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They cant have it. And donald trump says this at the same time the post office sends a notice to 44 states, that ballots in their states may not be counted. Now, i know there are some of you under a spell. I understand that. I understand youre in a political cult, a personality cult. So im going to read Donald Trumps quote a third time. And for you anti , antitrump bloggers, why dont you keep ignoring russian bounties on u. S. Soldiers heads and forget the fact that donald trump is trying to disenfranchise millions and millions of voters. In a fullon attack on american democracy. Heres Donald Trumps quote, again. If we dont make a deal, that means we dont get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They just cant have it. Jonathan lemire, he said the quiet part out loud. He admitted to the world wait, wait. That was a dramatic pause i had there. He admitted to the world that he was undermining democracy. Go, Jonathan Lemire. He did. First lets say senator collins lives an internal hope of lessons learning that has not arrived yet, it seems. You are precisely right. This is the president saying out loud what he has been saying privately for weeks, that he has felt the mailin voting will lead to widespread voter fraud and will be used to defeat him in november. Lets take a second to recognize what the Postal Service has done. There was talk on the right how the Postal Service has been losing money. The word is in the title, service. There are people in a pandemic rely on the Postal Service, perhaps aid loved one receiving a birthday card when they cant have a birthday card. There are those in america, seniors, who rely on the Postal Service to receive their medication. Yes, of course, theres going to be Unprecedented Demand for mailin voting because so Many Americans are going to be nervous to go to the ballot box this ball because of covid19 surges throughout the nation. And the president has you know, as you just said, last 48 hours or so theres been a little walking back from this. The white house distancing itself a little from this idea, you have seen House Speaker pelosi call the house back into session. It remains to be seen whether Republican Senate does and argument both houses should be in session as a Coronavirus Relief bill still hasnt been settled. Right now even if some of these cuts are restored and across the nation, reports from coast to coast about delays in Postal Service already well before the onslaught of mailin voting, that even if some of this is restored, what has happened here, according to our reporting, that the president has soewed seeds about the integrity this faults. Mark meadows in another interview this weekend was asked, he was pressed, was told, there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. The chief of staffs response, im paraphrasing, there isnt any evidence there isnt widespread voting fraud. Yes, there is. This is an attempt to muddy the water. This is an attempt to muddy the water and, again, cast doubt on the process, which we know could take days if not weeks to tally all the votes this fall because of the pandemic, because of the mailin voting. This is the president s attempt to undermine americans faith in, perhaps, its most sacred institution. Still ahead on morning joe, white house chief of staff mark meadows reaches far for an excuse to defend the administrations actions on mailin voting. Well play his puzzling remarks. Youre watching morning joe. As a dependent because its inanimate people ask me what sort of a person should become a celebrity accountant. And, i tell them, nobody should. Hey, buddy. Whats the damage . I bought it the waterfall . Nope a new volkswagen. A volkswagen . I think were having a breakthrough here welcome to caesars palace. Thank you. Techand your car. , were committed to taking care of you tech well fix it right with nocontact service you can trust. Tech so if you have auto glass damage, stay safe with safelite. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Less oral steroids. Taking my treatment at home. Nucala is a oncemonthly addon injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. 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Plus 0 interest for 36 months on all smart beds. Ends monday. To learn more, go to sleepnumber. Com. But what if you could startdo better than that . Like adapt. Discover. Deliver. In new ways. To new customers. What if you could come back stronger . Faster. Better. At comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back. But bounce forward. And now, were committed to helping you do just that with a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution at a great price. Call or go online today. Now there are four states that are adding to the sending out ballots to every registered voter. I understand thats a concern youre claiming. Isnt that a concern to you, jake . Wouldnt that be a concern to you . Do you realize how inaccurate the voter rolls are with just people moving around, not alone the people dying off, but sending ballots out just based on a voter roll registration . Any time you move, you change your drivers license but you dont call up and say, by the way, im theres no evidence of widespread voter fraud . Theres no evidence theres not either. Thats the definition of fraud, jake. That is so theres also evidence by the way, you cannot prove, you cannot prove that mark meadows is not smuggling billy goats from peru into the United States and then worshipping them on an altar behind the white house. You cannot prove that. Cant. Cant be proven. Thats one of the dumbest things ive ever heard in my life on a sunday talk show, and ive heard a lot of dumb things on sunday talk shows. But you cant yes, you actually can prove that. You can prove that by the fact there just arent hardly there are hardly any cases that have been brought suggesting what donald trump has been suggesting for some time, and going on a sunday show with a response basically like a child going, huhuh, you cant prove its not. Sorry, not justification for disenfranchising millions and millions of voters. I dont know if you heard this or not, but this is what donald trump said. If we dont make a deal, that means they dont get the money. That means they cant have universal mailin voting. They just cant have it. At the same time donald trump is saying that, the post office undergoing this restructuring, sowing chaos throughout the entire system and telling 44 states they may not be able to get their mailin ballots in time. Rev, heres the thing about trump and dejoy, they keep talking about how lousy the United States Postal Service is, they keep talking about how horrible the institution is. Pew survey some time ago did a survey of americans and guess what they found. The United States post office is the most respected, the most favorably viewed institution in all of government. 91 of americans have a favorable view of the United States post office. And that was just from this year at the end of march. So again, yes, this is frightening and the president is trying to disenfrance chiz millions and millions of people because he believes hes going to lose but this is a stupid political move. You have Susan Collins, who is supporting a president , who is trying to get an institution with a 91 Approval Rating. You have march that mcsally trying gut an institution that has 91 Approval Rating. Cory gardner supporting a president who is trying to gut an institution that has a 91 Approval Rating with the public. You have thom tillis doing the same thing, marco rubio doing it the same thing. Will ben sasse speak out . Will mitt romney speak out . They need to because 9 out of 10 americans have a favorable impression of the United States post office. Trump doesnt like it. Trump doesnt like it because he wants to privatize it and turn it over to people hes given billion dollar tax breaks to and wants to use it to punish amazon. And he also wants to do everything he can to stir doubt and the results of an election hes going to lose. Why do republicans stand by as he attacks the most popular institution in the United States government . It is absolutely outrageous. Its not only the politics of it, joe, it is also a very serious voter rights and civil rights issue, which the democrats ought to fight it politically and fight the fact that in the time that he with are still mourning john lewis loss, hes undermining voter rights because he is, in effect, trying to neutralize peoples right to vote by using mailin in the middle of a pandemic. Theres no clearer voter rights violation than that. But his politics of this is exactly to sow seeds, hoping people will be disgusted saying, my vote wont count, they wont go out and vote. If they do go out and vote and he loses, hes already written a script that i was robbed by a fraudulent mailin system. Hes trying to do two or three things at the time serving the interest of donald trump. Not preserving democracy, not preserving peoples right to vote and not respecting the will of people to choose their elected president. Up next, its not just here in the u. S. , the far right Political Movement seems to be unraveling across the world. Anne applebaum, david frum and george will join us for that conversation. Were back in a moment. A moment book two separate qualifying stays and earn a free night. The open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. You cant always stop anfor a fingerstick. Betesd, Choice Hotels is there. With the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you dont have to. With a painless, onesecond scan you can check your glucose with a smart phone or reader so you can stay in the moment. No matter where you are or what youre doing. Ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. You can do it without fingersticks. Learn more at freestylelibre. Us. Until i found out what itust . It actually was. D me. Dust mite droppings . Ewww. Dead skin cells . Gross so now, i grab my swiffer heavy duty sweeper and dusters. Dusters extends to 6 feet to reach way up high. To grab, trap and lock away gross dust. Nice for dust on my floors, i switch to sweeper. The heavy duty cloths reach deep in grooves to grab, trap and lock dust bunnies. No matter where they hide. No more heebie jeebies. Phhhhew. Glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. The problem with mailin voting, youre never going to know when the election is over. Were going to have an election that takes place on a beautiful day, november 3rd. Usually at the end of the evening, they say donald trump has won the election. Donald trump is your new president. Whatever they say, you know what, youre not going to know this, possibly if you really did it right, for months or for years because these ballots are all going to be lost, theyre going to be gone. If you were a paid agent of a foreign country, he could be he could not be more effective and undermining the institutions of american democracy. And in an oped for the Washington Post titled trump is actively working to undermine the Postal Service and every major u. S. Institution, retired navy admiral William Mccraven, former commander of special u. S. Operation command, the ones who hunted down and killed bin laden rights in part this, today we struggle with social upheaval, soaring debt, record unemployment, a runaway pandemic and rising threats from china and russia. President trump is actively working to undermine every Major Institution in this country. He has planted the seeds of doubt in the minds of Many Americans that our institutions arent functioning properly. And if the president doesnt trust the intelligence community, law enforcement, the press, the military, the supreme court, the medical professionals, elected officials and the postal workers, then why should we . And if americans stop believing in the system of institutions, then what is left but chaos, and who can bring order out of chaos . Only trump. It is the theme of every autocrat who ever seized power or tried to hold onto it. Lets bring in right now Staff Writers for the atlantic magazine, david frum and anne applebaum. Annes latest book is twilight of democracy, and also with us, columnist for Washington Post, george will. Anne, as you write about it in your book, there was a time not so long ago we would be considered right of center conservatives, you know, economic conservatives who believed in liberal traditionally liberal views of the economy, of free trade, of smaller government, and, of course, i think most of us were defined by the cold war and our belief in the superiority of our system over the old soviet system. But you saw what William Mccraven said today, and suddenly the word conservative not only in this country, but as you describe in countries across the globe, is far different than what it was a few years ago. Yes, thats correct. Look, the conservative movement as it was in the 1980s or 1990s was really a coalition and it was held together by dislike of the soviet union, by anticommunism, but actually people who were members of it were motivated by many different things. Some were free marketeers, some were christians, some were in favor they opposed the soviet geopolitics. When the cold war broke up, it sook some time, but that coalition broke up, too. Many members found in the post cold war era they didnt have much in common with them anymore. What were seeing in a lot of countries is the breakup of what they call conservative movement into different groups. Very often into a radical, you know, often authoritarian or antidemocratic group and others who see themselves as still part of still part of a democratic mainstream who believe in conservative ideas about economics and about how governments should run. George will, i grew up reading your columns, reading your books as a conservative. And i know you find yourself and david finds himself in the same position anne writes about regarding friends that shes had for decades that no longer consider themselves friends because of politics. And she said, we found ourselves on opposite sides of a profound divide, one that runs through not only what used to be the polish right, the spanish right, and some british right and the american right, too. This is not just about donald trump, is it . No, its not. What makes annes book such a bracing read is this. Anne is a transatlantic figure. Shes moved from poland to london to washington. She knows the conservative movement and its many manifestations. What she is writing about and what i think were experiencing today is the europeanization of american conservativism. European conservativism has a history of thrown an altar, blood and tribalism. American conservativism quite different, welcome the individualism and american capitalism. Donald trump setting out to make America Great again set out to make america more european in the sense it has injected this tribalism and made it normal in our politics. This is coincided with the fact that a lot of american conservatives are shocked because they are christians and the society is increasingly secular. Third, american conservatives have bought into the consult of vichlization. They like to feel they are put upon by academics, hollywood, the media and all the rest and they are an embattled minority in their own country. This makes for a very toxic group. David frum, first time i met you, 1994, i just arrived in washington. Its fascinating. I went up to you and said, hey, i bought dead right which was considered this great rightwing track. It just me minds me in 94, i was considered too conservative, and newt beginning rigin gingri conservative for the party to support in 1994. Your book was considered in many circles being far too right wing, and i remember jeb bush, campaigning with jeb bush in 94, and he was seen as the crazy bush. Again, far too right. And now here we find ourselves in 2020, and what is defined as being conservative, what is being defined as being far too right doesnt even register on the scale of how you know, what we believe conservativism was our entire lives. If donald trump loses and his enables in the senate experience the education that comes from pain, we have a chance to renew a center right party worthy of the name. Im speaking to you this morning from the canadian province of ontario with an Approval Rating of over 66 . Much higher than the National Liberals of justin trudeau. Why . Because they handled the pandemic competently. Not perfectly but competently and demonstrating they have concern ask care for the people who are sick and suffering. It can you can have a normal conservative party again. We are seeing the consequences of bad choices and the way we get out of this is through good choices. So i think were going to rediscover in the next few years why right side of parties are necessary and how we build them but that begins by moving out of this dead end of trumpism, which is not only unamerican but also so manifestly incompetent and driven this country into such extraordinary crisis. You know, anne, there are times where over the past several years ive convinced myself that donald trump is simply ignorant. And i think one of the bracing things about your book, one of the frightening things about your book is that what donald trump is doing here, you describe happening in poland in 2015. Youve described whats been happening in hungary for quite some time. That is, first, you go after the courts, then you go after the media, then you go after the state. And theres one line thats particularly chilling given what donald trump has said about the post office. In your introduction you say there was very little pretense about any of this. Hes just doing it out in the open. Theyre just doing it out in the open. As you explain, they dont have the constitutional means to do it, so they just redefine the political arguments. Yes, i mean, look, there are patterns that other governments have followed. If you are elected to office, of course you have the right to rule. You have the right to make laws. You have the right to make your arguments. What you dont have the right to do is undo the system and to make it impossible or make it difficult for your opposition ever to beat you again. We could include venezuela, turkey, other a number of other countries where people are elected to power and then they begin to dismantle the system that creates a level Playing Field that makes another election possible. What weve seen donald trump do, very openly, as you say. Hes never hidden it nor denied it, nor the people leading the Republican Party. What were watching him do is essentially cheat. Hes trying to change the rules. Hes trying the reason he wants to undermine the media is so the media cant report on his disruption and incompetence. The reason he wants to harm the post office is so americans wont be able to vote easily. The reason republicans talk about endlessly about, you know, voter deception that doesnt exist is to undermine peoples faith in the voting system. The reason why republican governors and mayors in some states have made it more difficult for people in black or underprivileged neighborhoods to vote is so they lower the bar. These are old tools and used in a lot of different places to make sure there isnt an evening Playing Field so the opposition cant compete easily. George will, anne starts the book at her friends new years eve heater she had at the end of the century, the end of the millennium, and talks about these people that they dont communicate with anymore, that thats been this Huge Division on the right, not just in poland but across the country. Im just curious, the thing i have the most trouble with are those colleagues that i came to congress with in 1994 and we were fighting for conservativism, for balanced budgets, for to hold china and russia and others accountable when it came to human rights. You could go down the list because you reported on us. Yet so many of those same people are remaining silent as donald trump well, donald trump this weekend said were not going to fund an Approval Rating of 90 prsz of people then people will be able to vote by mail. And silence on the Republican Party side. How have you come to grips with this, how have you come to terms with this . Well, silence would be an improvement for some people. Leaving that aside, the bad news and the sort of good news are linked. The bad news is, is that when people have, as the Congressional Republicans have done, shed so many principles so fast, so thoroughly over 3 1 2 years, you begin to wonder if they know what it is to be principled at all. On the other hand, they have shown such, shall we say, conviction in the last few years. Having shed so many principles when donald trump disappears, as i expect him to do soon, theyre going to look around and acquire the rhetorical professionals, that is so take, theyve proven themselves to be malleable. Thats the good news and potentially the bad news. Going back to 2010 with the tea party movement, conservatives, selfproclaimed conservatives, fought for balanced budgets, fought for all the things that donald trump is not. Donald trump, even before the pandemic gave us the largest deficits ever, the largest federal debt ever, the biggest explosion in domestic spending, the biggest defense spending ever. Every single thing these people fought for over 20 years get tossed aside overnight when donald trump won the nomination. And yet i think george will is absolutely right. For the past two years ive had at the top of my twitter feed a prediction, which all of this is over, nobody will ever minute having been for any of it. Its going to disappear down the memory hole. Then we are going to face the wreckage donald trump left behind and your important choices and politics will resume. Well have enormous debt left over from the pandemic response. What do we do about it . How does the country meet its obligations. How do we restore the world free trading system that donald trump has badly damaged. A world in which so many people have lost faith in the United States in which china is objectively so much stronger than it was when donald trump came to power. There is going to be work to do. And so i think all of us who are watching this program, we need to get through what has to be done as rapidly as possible because theres going to be real politics, returning to america soon. Were not going to be as anne warns, dealing with challenges to the system, we hope. If only donald trump can be sent on his way to maralago or whatever federal institution hes going to, if he can be sent on his way, you can get back to normal politics in which people disagree in a way people constructively do to reach good for the country as a whole. Anne, in twilight of democracy, and by the way, im glad i dont have to pay royalties every time i mention your book, i would be paying for an addition on your home. You bring up a great point. You say Trump Supporters do not fit the lazy stereotypes that even they put on themselves and that the press puts on themselves. They are not all poor and rural, they are not all impoverished, not all high school dropouts. In fact, some are quite healthy, doing quite well, went to the best schools in america and across the world and are using those gifts, those blessings actually to help authoritarians across the globe. Ive always disliked from the very beginning this idea that trump is you know, or the brexit vote in england were somehow the product of, as the cliche has it, the white working class. The fact is in the United States, the poorest americans did not vote for donald trump, that economics does not fully explain whats going on. Its a part of the explanation but not all of it. And a lot of the people who work around trump and for trump just like they work around with authoritarians in other countries are extremely well educated. They understand the world very well, they are the product of, as you say, the best schools and the best universities, and they are using their skills and talents to promote him and to promote their own interest and their own benefit. Weve kind of closed our eyes to the fact to the millionaires and billionaires who work for donald trump and to the very well off, you know, well off people in suburbs and in cities as well who have also supported him. In order to understand what theyre doing, you know, need a more sophisticated frame of reference than the one that many have used. Stereotypes dont explain it. You need also to look at the cultural despair and anger that a lot of conservatives feel about america and this sense of victimization theyve explained so much. This is also an important part of the story. George will, as one who not only reported on Ronald Reagan but spent enough time around Ronald Reagan to know him, what would president reagan be saying about the erosion of democracy not only in america but also in poland and hungary, whats going on in belarus right now . I think hed say, first of all, lighten up and be more cheerful. This is not a fragile country. It was not made by fragile people. He also would say this, the left at one point had to police its excesses. That is, those who became fellow travelers of foreign despots, l lenin, stalin or castro. There is a faxes in american conservativism that thinks mr. Orban in hungary is very cool. Hes not. Hes a garden variety authoritarian and people who flirt with him should be forever ruled out of the conversation on the american right. And annes book, by the way, is particularly salient in dealing with orbahn and the per verse appeal he has. David, i know youve seen that as well. Its shocking. Again, people i know, people whose views on conservativism i probably agreed with, the overwhelming of time throughout my life, are fan boys of orbahn. Theres no explaining that away other than these same people. I think the thing that made reagan such an inspiring figure in the 1980s was his incredible confidence in america, what america stood for not only to americans but to people elsewhere. Donald trump has always spoken negatively, spoken pessimistically. That mood of despair has spread to many of the people who followed him. For those who reach a certain age, our personal futures, decline leading to ultimate extinction. Its very natural for us to assume thats true for countries as a whole. If were being more decrepit, the country must be becoming more decrepit. Donald trump has never offered hope. He doesnt know that language. His most important supporters, they offer the opposite. They offer gloom and fair and terror and decline and a message that touches people of a certain age, that repulses everybody else, and that isnt true. We have the ability as Ronald Reagan kept promising to restore and renew the country. And when we do, were going to discover the ideas of 1989 that anne so eloquently talks about, the ideas that brought you into congress in 1994, they can be repurposed for a new era. First we have to get to a point where we all agree that the way you compete is by competing for votes. Not by competing for ways to stop people from voting. Anne, you talked about the future of nostalgia. You know, george will and david frum talking about the despair and the victimization that trump and people who certain people on the right have embraced. You talk about it, about men who were mentors in your life early on. You know, just talking about a lost england and almost driving them to madness in their political views. Thats to do specifically to do with britain. We see this everywhere as well, that people who dislike the president or who are uncomfortable with what their countries have become, very often again to look to previous eras. They look back to different times and romanticize them and seek to bring them back. Not in a pathetic way or by repurposing the idea, but literally to bring them back. This is what many nationalist projects were founded on. We want to bring back the time when we were young or when our grandparents were young or we remember the country being a certain way. You can see that in trumpism as well, a Cartoon Version of the 1950s when men were men and women were at home and there were no people of other races visible in public life. Thats the view, thats the image that they want to bring back. Thats the moment when they say, make America Great again. Thats what they mean. They mean when it was run according to a certain way. And this is the way of denying the presence and denying all of the good things that have happened in america over the last, you know, two, three, four, five decades. And denying the diverse nature of the country and the incredible potential that it has. I agree with david. Its also its a form of selfcentered pessimism. Im pessimistic because things arent the way i remember them. And that really leaves no space for young people, for new ideas, for refreshing visions of what the country can become. Right. Which, of course, leads to donald trump tweeting about great news, housewives in suburbia. Its almost like hes in chevy chase in 1957. Anyway, anne applebaum, thank you so much, david frum and george will, appreciate you being here. It means so much. Coming up next, we have the mayor of washington, d. C. , muriel bowser. She will be speaking at the Democratic Convention tonight and well be right back with more morning joe. As a caricature artist, i appreciate what makes each person unique. Thats why i like liberty mutual. They get that no two people are alike and customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Almost done. What do you think . I dont see it. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. vo because we know you want to get back to going your speed. Steering life at 10 and 2. Youre prepared for this. And so are we. Soon youll get back to skipping the counter without missing a beat. Back to choosing any car in the aisle. Back to being the boss of you. Go national. Go like a pro. Comes new wild catch. 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If thats so, as an ordinary suburban housewife, im starting to feel a little disrespected. I teach my children not to name call, jenna. I was going to say, im pissed off, but im afraid theyd bleep it. Cute. I like it when she goes mmm. Joining us is the mayor of washington, d. C. , democrat muriel bowser. Shes scheduled to speak tonight at the Democratic National convention as part of the program that addresses the nationwide calls for racial Justice Reform. Its great to see you. I absolutely adore black lives matter plaza. Youre going to go down in history for that, and its amazing on many levels. So preview for us, if you could, what you plan to talk about, what you hope to touch upon or at the very least, not to give it all away, whats the impact of the message you hope that voters will receive from your talk tonight. Well, mika, what i will address is what everyone is talking about all across america. And that is why its so important that we have a new president that recognizes that fanning the flames of racist systems will not make our country better. And we are having a racial reckoning in our country, and its so important that all of us on every level, those who are elected and everyone else, is focused on how we make our country more fair and more just. A lot of people really felt like a breaking point, what was what happened in lafayette square. And when protesters were pepper sprayed or gassed or, i guess theres been now an act passed by the d. C. Council prohibiting using the word chemical irritants to dismiss First Amendment rights. What is it, tear gas . Can we make it clear . There are a lot of different definitions for these irritants, and our law spells out whats prohibited during a lawful protest. And its so important, i think, that we have taken steps in washington, d. C. , cities around the country and the congress has a bill around policing as well. We are all very clear here. We need good constitutional policing to keep neighborhoods safe. But our residents also have to be assured that they are treated justly and fairly in our systems. We have a lot of work to do in our country, and we stand ready to do that work. And i think that part of our message tonight is that black lives matter and wonderful black lives matter plaza is important, but its a start. Its a start to a conversation but also a start to action. And i think thats what joe biden and Kamala Harris mean for our country. They get it. They recognize that we have systems to improve and some systems to tear down and theyre competent, experienced leaders who will do that. And the selection of Kamala Harris as his running mate says a lot to me about who joe biden is and how he sees america and how he knows that this this ticket that reflects our country will just make all of us very excited to go out and vote. Because were going to have some obstacles to overcome on election day. Just touching on that in terms of the message that you want to send to people who want to peacefully protest, who may have been treated badly at certain stages during this whole time since George Floyds death. If you look at whats happening in portland, also last thursday in washington, d. C. , 40 people were arrested. What is your message to protesters in terms of how they need to carry out their protests and how that can get muddled and things can turn ugly real quick. We know, sadly, that there are some people that are not really there to protest or demand Racial Justice but to create havoc. And sometimes destruction. And there is no place in america thats going to allow their city or their town to be torn down or to allow fires and the like. And so people who are not following the law will be subject to arrest to keep everybody else safe. And thats what we saw in washington. So we want people to be peaceful, to follow the laws, but not to destroy our town. Well be watching you tonight. Mayor muriel bowser, thank you so much for being on the show with us this morning. And that does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. Its monday, august 17th, the start of a very unconventional Democratic National Convention Week. The big event kicks off this evening, but it will be mostly virtual without the big crowds were used to seeing. All the big names will appear because it will be remotely and the events and speeches have been cut way down. Tonights featured speakers will be Bernie Sanders and michelle obama. Of course, all of this is remote due to the coronavirus pandemic. We are up to 5. 4 million cases across the United States. Along with nearly 171,000 deaths in america. However, according to the new york times, we are seeing some moves. Cases are