Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200609

Since the death of george floyd in minneapolis and nationwide protests against Police Violence showing no sign of slowing down. In Southern California yesterday a number of processions led by hearses met for a Memorial Service in downtown los angeles. In portland, oregon, demonstrators shutdown an intersta interstate. Portlands chief of Police Stepping down, announcing she asked an africanamerican lieutenant to replace her. Outside the white house, protesters turned the fence around Lafayette Park into a living memorial with hundreds of signs and works of art. This comes as former Minneapolis Police officer derek chauvin, who is charged with murder in the death of george floyd made his First Court Appearance yesterday. The judge granted the prosecutions request for a 1. 25 million unconditional bail. All this set against the backdrop today of the private funeral for george floyd and the laying to rest of a man who was killed now 15 days ago in minneapolis. I mean, so many people commemorating his life across this country right now, the private funeral as you mentioned for george floyd being held in his native houston today. But before he is laid to rest, thousands joined his family yesterday to pay their final respects at a public viewing in the city. Floyds casket arrived at fountain of praise church where mourners braved 90 degree heat to wait outside before coming in for their personal tributes. Well wishers Wearing Masks as a precaution against the coronavirus filed into two lines as ushers directed them to floyds gold colored casket where they said their goodbyes. According to the church administrator, by 5 30 p. M. , more than 6,000 people had come to honor george floyd, including governor greg abbott, former Vice President joe biden who is pictured with floyds uncle, the familys attorney, and congressman sedge Rick Richmond and reverend al sharpton. The meeting lasted for more than an hour during this biden, quote, listened, heard their pain and followed in their woe. Floyds brother spoke to a crowd of attendees following the service. I love yall for giving my brother so much support. Yall could have been anywhere in the world but youre with us now. This is a blessing. This is bigger than george right now. Were going to stop everybody from being afraid of the police. We have good police, but we have bad police. You cant sort them out so we have to figure it out right now. 6,000 people stood in the 90 degree heat yesterday for the viewing of George Floyds body today. In houston will be the private service as yasmin just told us. You cant help but be struck and in awe of the crowds that continue to pour in the streets every single day. This is now two weeks of this. And it appears the enthusiasm, the passion, the fear, the anxiety, the anger, pent up over generations is not going to ebb anymore soon. You know, willie, i think thats absolutely right. When i look at the funeral or the viewing, it reminds me of emmitt till and his mother, and how important her open casket viewing was for the civil rights movement. It transformed a generation, it radicalized everyday ordinary black folks to step out and fight for their freedoms and citizenship. Here we have 6,000 people bearing 90 degree humid heat in houston to view the coffin of george floyd and that happens amid the backdrop of ongoing protests around the country. This was not a flash in the pan. This moment, right, is a moment to fundamentally transform how we police in this country and they need to address it with substance and not just simply symbol. So eddie, you saw the image yesterday of Democratic Congressional leaders, led by nancy pelosi, taking a knee for eight minutes and 46 seconds. The democrats put out a new proposal about policing in this country, the president is said to be considering some parts of it. Do you see a government now that is standing up to meet the demands of the people in the streets in a way that perhaps we didnt see after ferguson, for example. Or we didnt see after eric garner where there was passion and anger for a while and then the country sort of moved on. We are in the move now some two weeks later and seeing legislative steps being taken a as well. I think 2014 was an interesting moment. We saw the intensity of the ferguson protests, we saw a lot of young people put their lives on the line and nothing much changed after that. In some ways the biggest change was the election of 2016 when the country decided to put donald trump in the white house. In this moment, i think the frustrations around 2014, the fact that that generation who came of age with obama in the white house, theyre now 22, 23 years old, theyre now in the streets. Theyre going to demand change. Theyre going to continue to push for change because theyve in some ways come of age in a moment of ongoing catastrophes. So i think there is an opportunity for a significant shift, but were going to see it happening more so at the local level, at the state level, because it seems that in washington d. C. , substantive change has been gummed up by deep, divisive partisan. You have a democratic house, and a republican senate. Craig melvin will lead our coverage on msnbc of George Floyds funeral in houston. Among the proposals in the democratic legislation, no chokeholds, body cameras for all Police Officers, but one flash point in the country and within the Democratic Party has been this idea of defunding the police. Joe biden and Top Democrats on the hill are pushing back on calls from progressive activists to defund the police. The president and his allies now are using the movement to paint democrats as soft on crime. Here is the presumptive nominee, again explaining his opposition. You support defunding the police . No, i dont support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency and honorableness and able to demonstrate they can protect the community and everybody in the community. Multiple sources telling politico that Majority Whip Jim Clyburn of South Carolina told democrats in a private call to avoid being drawn into the debate over defunding the police. So this discussion, obviously progressive activists have been talking about defunding the police, its been a semantic argument about what that means but when you look at the minneapolis city vote they said we want to dismantle the Police Department. So were not talking about just rerouting funds to social programs, but, in fact, dismantling the Police Department. Is this a dangerous place for the Democratic Party to be when they have Public Opinion on their side right now, when they have the energy in the streets to be talking about taking money away from the police entirely . It can be politically, willie, but it also reveals that we are just simply in the eye of the storm. That the divisions in the country are going to be made manifest as we continue to try to imagine a new america. Lets be clear, we have examples of disbanding Police Departments, one just recently in 2017 in camden, new jersey, and we have reports even in the New York Times about the way in which that move has impacted the notion of Public Safety, the experience of Public Safety in that very troubled city in some ways. Whats troubling about joe bidens response and jim clyburns response is that theyre not dealing with the substance of the claim theyre thinking about the politics and the optics, right. It seems that biden needs to be very, very clear that what defunding is about is a justice reinvestment movement, redirecting funds. To think about policing in the context of tough on crime, police in the context of the war on drug has led to an explosion of budgets. 54 of the budget in los angeles. We can go on and on. But when we think about Public Safety in a different way, not within the context of the war on drugs or tough on crime or the criminalization of a particular set of communities. When we begin to think of Public Safety more broadly we want to reinvest those moneys in education, Mental Health, in social work, in housing, and a range of policies that are not funded at the same level. That seems to me something that joe biden should embrace. So he might want to distance himself from the slogan, but he shouldnt distance himself from the substance of the policy it seems to me. Eddie, its interesting you bring up budgeting ending in 2019 over a fiveyear span, 40 billion going to the nypd, 6,000,000,007,000,000,000 going to homelessness and housing development. So you think about that comparison within the new York Police Department and why so many folks are in the streets youre asking for reallocating funds, at least here in new york, but you also have a lot of folks saying defunding the police is not going to achieve what protesters want. At least a professor in policing equity at the college of john jay criminal justice spoke to Rachel Maddow about the plans to dismantle the Police Departments and explains why simply defunding them would not produce the results many protesters are calling for. Watch this. Were seeing people move towards abolition, but its about not having no police, but making sure again that communities have the resources so that you can have less of a footprint of police. So ill give you an example. People have been asking me the last couple days if we defund the police what happens when you call 911 . If something is on fire you call 911, who shows up . Its the fire truck. And if somebody is having a heart attack, you call 911 and the emt shows up. So we have 911 giving lots of different emergency services. Imagine what would happen if someone was overdosing or a couple was having a disagreement they didnt know how to resolve or a kid wasnt feeling safe if you could call Mental Health, child protective resources, Substance Abuse resources, if the sources that people needed so they didnt rely on Law Enforcement were there, if 911 had more options, communities would feel safer and you wouldnt introduce a law and gun in situations that Law Enforcement cant be trained for in the first place and theyve been calling to get out of the business of for years. Thats what the majority of people that i talk to want, they want more resources for communities, so communities make the decision about when something has gotten violent enough that a badge and gun is appropriate. If you defund the Police Department and take away 50 of the personnel, right, which im hearing people say, slash it, 50 out. There is no Union Contract in the United States that says anything other than last in, also first out. That means, if youre trying to cut it, youre getting rid of the youngest officers who are also the most progressive, the most interested in culture change. So if you dont end up following a road map and looking for ways to cut the right officers and cut the right programs, youre going to end up with tragedy in black communities. So thats very well explained and well said. I think people in america are on the side of Police Reform if you look at the polling, especially now. But when they hear the word defund, which means to take funding away from the police, they think youre getting away from the Police Department. The camden, new jersey example thats been raised a lot and is interesting is more complicated because they have county Police Officers, they hired private security so there was a police force in the town, they just reinvested and redirected the funds to be used differently, social services on the municipal level. So what is the perfect model in your eye from where you sit . I think what dr. Goff just laid out is absolutely right. We want to think these sorts of solutions are just really very simple and direct and clear. The problems are complex, and i think the solutions to these problems will be complex and nuanced. Some combination of reform in the way in which we police and in some ways expanding services by reinvesting in education and housing and Mental Health services and the like. I think what dr. Goff laid out is what im hearing on the ground from activists as well. Willie, lets be clear. Itll be difficult to organize and rally around the slogan of redirect the funds of police to these things. So the slogan is a shorthand, and often times we find ourselves debate the slogan. We debated the slogan around black lives matter, people said all lives matter, blue lives matter, they thought it was a narrow utterance. People debated black power, didnt know what it meant. People debated freedom now in the context of the blacks freedom struggle with dr. King. So theres been an attention to the slogan used to mobilize folks in the street and some ways to divert our attention. We should be paying attention to whats happening beneath the slogan, what its pointing us to, and thats this, whenever police are involved in a situation, the potential use of deadly force come into view. In some instances, the idea of deadly force being possible is absolutely unnecessary, and we need to begin to shrink the police footprints in our communities because theyre not the sole responders to every problem we experience. Theyre not the sole question to the answer of Public Safety. You talk about the slogan. I heard some democrats yesterday, progressives, saying we need to work on the slogan because defund has a specific and literal meaning that the president is using to his advantage, he believes, at a Law Enforcement round table yesterday, President Trump pledged to maintain funding for police. Theres not going to be any disbanding of our police. Our police have been letting us live in peace, we want to make sure we dont have any bad actors in there, and sometimes youll see horrible things like we witnessed recently. But 99 i say 99. 9 but lets go with 99 of them are great, great people. Seeing some of the papers they want to end the Police Department, quote, end the Police Department in minneapolis. End it. What does that mean . End it. You might have some cities that want to try, but its going to be very a very sad situation if they did, because people arent going to be protected. Lets go to the white house right now, bringing in nbc news correspondent carol lee. Good morning, obviously the president believes hes onto something here, we heard it in his Public Comments yesterday, used it in tweets, saying the radical left democrats want to take money from police and get rid of Police Departments, using specifically minneapolis where the council said they want to dismantle the Police Departments. Hes struggling right now in any poll thats coming out. Is this his new law and order theme that hes going to go with the democrats want to take money away from the police, despite the fact that Vice President biden went on the record yesterday saying hes against defunding the police. Yes, were in the third week of this crisis and President Trump is now, what he thinks, found basically the argument that he can make on this, where he feels he stands on the strongest footing and he also has this opponent that he likes to have in these sorts of in these kinds of debates and that is that the democrats are trying to take away funding from Police Departments. And the whole reason for this is so that the president can cast himself as a an ally of police and Law Enforcement and say that democrats are antiLaw Enforcement. And this is where the president is going to lean into. It doesnt matter, as you said, whether joe biden says he doesnt support it or not. Every democrat is going to be asked whether or not they support this and the president is going to continue to try to make them own this because he feels and people around him feel this is his best argument in this, this law and order argument, thats his messaging plan. The question thats still hanging over the white house is whether the president is going to come up with any sort of substantive plan to deal with the concerns that these tens of thousands of protesters are voicing in the streets across the country. He has not said what he would do in terms of any Police Reforms, what he would support. He said theyre going to discuss some things the White House Press secretary said theyre looking at whats a state issue, a federal issue, what he might be able to support. But so far no specifics in that realm of this crisis. And weve seen the president repeatedly now, and youll hear a lot more of this in the coming days, hit this idea that democrats are not on the side of Law Enforcement and he is. And thats where he thinks that hes going thats what he thinks the message is thats going to get to the poll numbers that you referenced closer back to where him and his add vievis would like them to be. He and his campaign know they need something now, you look at the battleground state polling in places like michigan, its not good. Hes down in double digits across the polls. So apparently now hes going to start doing rallies again at the end of the month, despite concerns about coronavirus, despite continued concerns about large gatherings. Is that really on the board and with what will those rallies look like . Those have become oxygen for him over the years. He can go out when times are bad and feel affirmed by those big crowds he gets when he goes to rallies. What will a make America Great again rally look like in 2020 this summer . Reporter if the president gets his way, its going to look like the rallies weve seen in the past and his supporters, frankly, feel comfortable with that, and the white house and the president s campaign feel like theyll still be able to draw the crowds that the president has drawn in the past. Weve seen the way the president wants to handle the Republican Convention. Hes not holding it in North Carolina because they might require things like social distancing and other measures to deal with the pandemic. Hes not so interested in that. He wants his rallies the way they were, he thrives off of those, feels good when hes out. Hes been itching to get out on the trail we know from our reporting for weeks. And now hes presented with options where he can do rallies in the coming days and were likely to see him do that in the coming weeks up to the convention. Carol, good to see you. Reporter hi. This is a president that was going to campaign on a strong economy. We are now officially in a recession as of today essentially announced we are in a recession. Whats that mean for this president Going Forward . Especially if he plans to campaign at these rallies . It means they have to switch the argument from make America Great again to try to get people to feel like america is heading in the right direction. Weve seen from our nbc news wall street journal poll that 80 of the people feel like the country is spinning out of control. What the president and his aids will tell you is that he needs to make americans feel like the economy is going in the right direction. Like things are Getting Better as opposed to things are better now. And hes the one going to continue making the economy move in the right direction. Thats why we saw him on friday really spike the football on that jobs report and lean into it. And they really want to be able to turn the page and say the country is moving in the right direction. Not so much an argument they expected to make, we had this great economy firing on all cylinders, the president created that and thats why he should be reelected again. Its the argument the economy is going through a rough patch, its moving in the right direction and the president should stay in office to keep it going in the right direction. If you hand it to the democrats, theyll defund the police and take the economy in the wrong direction. Thats the new argument. Carol lee at the white house. Thank you. Still ahead, the World Health Organization now says the spread of covid19 by someone not showing symptoms appears to be rare. Well talk to our medical panel about the confusion in that statement and the chaos it caused yesterday. Straight ahead. Its totally normal to have constipation with belly pain, straining, and bloating, again and again. No way. More exercise. More water. 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Attorney general william bar contradicted President Trump in confirming that the president was taken to an underground bunker during protests late last month. Attorney general barr saying yesterday the president was taken to a bunker not because of an inspection as the president claims but because of security threats outside the white house. On monday we were reacting to three days of extremely violent demonstrations right across from the white house, allot of injuries to Police Officers, arson, things were so bad that the secret Service Recommended the president go down to the bunker. Remember last week President Trump denied a New York Times report that the secret service had taken him to a bunker for his own security during the may 29th protest. And suggested he was, instead, conducting an inspection. It was a false report. I wasnt down. I went down during the day, and i was there for a tiny, little short period of time, it was much more for an inspection. There was never a problem. We never had a problem. Nobody ever came close to giving us a problem. They said it would be a good time to go down, take a look, because maybe sometime youre going to need it. It was always a little bit laughable that the president of the United States was down conducting a spot inspection of the world war ii era bunker beneath the white house for his own safety. But now attorney general barr who we dont often see contradicting the president , coming out and saying its what you think it was, the president was taken to the bunker by the secret service during the protests to protect him from those. Just checking things out down here. Just checking things out. Yeah. Theres nothing wrong with the president seeking safety if, in fact, his security is at risk, he is the president of the United States after all, but there is something wrong with actually lying about it. And the attorney general, as you mentioned there, contradicting him. It turns out theres some ads running in washington d. C. Right now to appease the president. The Trump Campaign running ads on cable news in the d. C. Area reportedly to perk up Congressional Republicans and reach an audience of one, the president himself. That is according to the daily beast, which is reporting that the Trump Campaign spent a little over 400,000 for ads that began running this past may and scheduled through june 23rd. Mostly on fox news but on cnn and this network as well. The Trump Campaign Communications Director said this, we want members of congress and our d. C. Based surrogates to see our ads so they know our strong arguments for President Trump and against joe biden. Two sources saying the ad buy had another purpose, to put the president himself at ease as he grows anxious about his reelection. They also said, quote, the campaign is hoping to counter ads that have driven the president to recent outbursts. The ads were the work of the lincoln project, and they elicited furious reaction from the president s twitter feed. I was speaking to shannon a little bit earlier and she said to me, the president doesnt like to watch commercials so its not necessarily good to run ads during commercial times. If you want the president to watch you should be watching during sports, because thats what he likes to watch, golfing in particular. He fast forwards through the ads, like most of us, but 400,000 spent to turn washington d. C. Blue, i guess, i kid its as blue as it could be. Apparently theyre also trying to get to members in congress to hype them in light of the new numbers and the last couple months and polls that show hes not doing well, including among his supporters who dont like the way hes handling the crisis. The Lincoln Group putting the ads on fox news. Coronavirus infections hit record highs in 14 states and in puerto rico. Well have the latest on the ongoing pandemic next on morning joe. Ing fails. To sweat sessions. Ing fails. Even life inside can bring on things like sweat and oil. But its nothing a deep clean cant fix. Love, neutrogena®. Makes it beautiful. State of the Art Technology makes it brilliant. The lexus nx experience the crossover in its most visionary form. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual transmits onward. What we want to be focused on is following the symptomatic cases. If we followed all the symptomatic cases because we know this is a respiratory pathogen, if we actually followed all the symptomatic cases, isolated those cases, followed the contacts and quarantined the contacts we would drastically reduce i would love to give a proportion of how much transmission we would stop. The World Health Organization yesterday casting doubt and causing confusion about the spread of the coronavirus through asymptomatic infections. You heard a top official calling asymptomatic transmission rare. The new conclusion was drawn from Contact Tracing data from several countries. However, preliminary evidence from the earliest outbreaks indicated the virus could spread from persontoperson contact even if the carrier did not have symptoms. Now the w. H. O. Says while asymptomatic spread can occur, it is not the main way it is being transmitted. The comments are raising questions from leading health experts. The director at the Harvard Global Health Institute blamed the w. H. O. For creating confusion, tweeting out communication from the w. H. O. Is not stellar and such communication should be accompanied by data. He calls the asymptomatic spread the achilles heel of the outbreak. Questions also rising over why the agency recently changed its guidance on Wearing Masks. Previously the w. H. O. Recommended only health care workers, people with covid19 and their care givers wear medical masks. On friday the w. H. O. Changed its guidance and now is advising in areas where the virus is spreading Healthy People should wear fabric masks when unable to socially distance. Lets try to make sense of that, joining us professor and vice pro voes for global initiatives dr. Ezekiel emmanuel. And cohost of the podcast and making the call and author of the new book entitled which country has the best health care. Also with us, morning joe chief medical correspondent dr. Dave campbell. Good morning, good to have you both with us. Dr. Emmanuel well start with you. When the w. H. O. Says asymptomatic transmission is rare weve been told for these months now that part of the idea of staying at home is you could have coronavirus and not know it and just the act of going to a Grocery Store or restaurant you could be spreading it to people without knowing it. What did you make of the w. H. O. Comments yesterday . Well, i think the official went overboard compared to what the actual official document, which i have here, said. So if you actually read the document carefully, it says that there are three studies that look at spread without symptoms. Part of the problem, and this is what they didnt make clear is, asymptomatic spread is when you never develop symptoms. You can only tell that at the very end. One of the things we know is that a lot of people are most infectious, one to three days before they have symptoms. They look asymptomatic because they dont know they have the disease but they can still spread it. While theyre not truly asymptomatic because they eventually develop symptoms but they look asymptomatic. So if they were more careful they would have said you can spread it when youre pr presymptomatic and develop symptoms and that makes it easier to trace. But people without symptoms can spread the disease, thats the important point. People who havent developed symptoms yet, have the virus, can spread the disease are most infectious and then go on to develop symptoms. So we have to be very careful when people dont have symptoms and go out with a mask, make sure that youre staying 6 feet away, because you could have the virus, you dont know yet. And you could develop symptoms. And that is a key problem. It was a very confusing statement. True asymptomatic people who youll know after two weeks, yes, they may be at low level. But by the way the w. H. O. Statement doesnt show theyre at low level. They show they spread from 0 to 14 depending on the study. I think that was a very confusing and unhelpful statement the way she said it. And i think she is right that Contact Tracing can reduce the spread, but, you know, youve got to be a little more precise if youre going to make a major statement to the entire world about how this disease is being spread. Dr. Campbell, i think this is one of the many moments that americans have had over the last four months where theyve gone, wait a minute, what . What does this mean for me . Where do i go with this information . Asymptomatic versus presymptomatic, what does that mean and what are our implications to go out and resume our businesses and lives again . It has nothing to do with going back out and resuming our lives or any change, i should say. When we speak of presymptomatic, it is as if we need to be clairvoyant and know that those individuals will eventually develop the symptoms of covid19, the most well known ones and the severe ones are cough, fever, shortness of breath. You dont know, i dont know, whether today i may be in the beginning stages of having covid19, not know it, and be very contagious as dr. Emmanuel says. Those are presymptomatic individuals. Those that are asymptomatic may have the disease in them, the virus floating through their system and never develop anything other than perhaps mild symptoms. So the distinction between true asymptomatic and those that are presymptomatic and going to get sick is key. And the speaker was making a point early in this process of identifying this information, and it was useful, but it was very confusing. I think all of us had to watch her reporting a few times and then read the World Health Organization statement to try to figure out and parse out the distinction she was telling us. It was important that she was stressing over and over again, that massive testing of those with symptoms is going to be the most valuable to identifying those that are likely to become secondarily infected. So it was just a little snippet of information that got us all in a tizzy yesterday but it clearly wasnt the intention. There was something that wasnt spoken and dr. Emmanuel you may want to speak to this, see if i have it right. Its the viral load that also has some relationship to how contagious or inif he cannive you are. We know right before you become very sick with a fever and cough, the day youre going to become sick with covid19 youre very contagious, you have a lot of virus being shed from your respiratory system and if the viral load turns out to be higher in those that are very sick and lower in those that are true asymptomatic, there might be an explanation for what dr. Von kirkoff was saying. I agree with you. There does seem to appear, its not definitive, that viral load, the amount of virus you actually have gotten infected with and have produced, is related to how sick you get. Thats not definitive, but it does appear if you get a small amount of virus, you probably can navigate this without too much problem and getting too sick. If you have a large amount of virus and get exposed to it you do get sick. Thats one of the main reasons to stay away from people, wear masks and reduce, if you happen to get sick, the amount of virus youre taking in. By the way, this is common with viral diseases, for smallpox weve long known they knew in the 18th century that a small amount of virus gave you a mild case and made you immune. So it was very beneficial so that actually is a very consistent with other situations that we know about. Dr. Emmanuel thanks for being with us this morning. I think one of the Major Concerns here is the fact that folks could let their guards down hearing this news from the World Health Organization. I was out the streets with protesters on sunday reporting there and you had thousands of folks with masks on, they werent able to socially distance, but they did have masks on. If they hear this news from the World Health Organization saying that asymptomatic folks are not folks that can necessarily pass on the virus, they may subsequently take the masks off and thats the major problem they could let the guard down and then wed see the numbers spike once again. You have it right. Two weeks ago we wrote an article in the New York Times saying, its important to get people to wear masks and to actually have them to reduce the spread both from a person and what they got if they were in the environment where a virus was around. And if they, as you say, if they hear that you cant be asymptomatic and spread it, they may revert. And that would be a very big loss. The w. H. O. On this mask thing has been quite slow and quite delayed in making the announcement, as you pointed out, they only made it on friday. I broadcast that we ought to be doing this more than two months ago, before the cdc announced that there is a fair amount of evidence, its not great evidence in the middle of a pandemic, but that wearing a face mask is helpful. And theres really no down side and wearing just a regular cloth mask that fits on your face can be very helpful. We should not revert to taking those masks off. We still dont have 95 of people doing it, which is what we need. Like seat belts. To actually help reduce the spread of this virus. And i would note in large parts of the country there hasnt been big viral reductions. I looked at georgia last night, i looked at louisiana. Weve plateaued, havent gone to zero the way they have in other countries like italy that had big outbreaks. So we have a lot of work to do. Dr. Campbell, to that point, yes, the cases have gone down, the hospitalizations have gone down and the areas of greatest concern in the early months of this pandemic in new york city and los angeles and chicago and detroit and places like that, but the Washington Post is tracking cases in 14 states and puerto rico now have recorded their highest seven day averages, the most theyve ever had, the record of cases. So where are we in this right now . I think theres this sort of temptation to feel like weve turned on a page on it because some of our urban centers have gotten better, objectively they have. But now as it moves across the country a bit, perhaps goes into rural communities, whats the snapshot right now . Where are we in the progress of this pandemic . , you know, weve been speaking of this since memorial day when we saw the big crowds at the beach and the sand bars and we knew that all 50 states had some degree of reopening happening. Were about two weeks in, we have a few more weeks until july 4th. And what we have been concerned of, and are still concerned about, is this increasing number of cases spread around the country rather than being concentrated in the large urban centers, spread through Nursing Homes and factories and small towns and communities, and we are now seeing that. So its ever more the good news is that a lot of people arent watching the news now. So what came out with the World Health Organization yesterday, its not going to be widely disseminated before speakers like dr. Emmanuel and others will let the country know you cannot let your guard down, you have to realize the numbers are creeping back up and by july 4th well be seeing increasing numbers, perhaps more spread across the country in a diffuse manner, and thankfully cities like new york city have seen a decrease. But we are far from out of the woods and that feared second wave that we talked about coming in the fall and the winter, may come sooner, spurred by memorial day, opening of all 50 states to some degree and, of course, the protests where physical distancing is essentially impossible. Willie . Dr. Emmanuel before we let you go, weve obviously turned our eyes for the last couple of weeks to this protest, the movement in the streets, but what is your concern as a physician whos keeping his eye on these numbers and yes, weve turned a page in cities like detroit and chicago and new york but were seeing record highs in other states across the country . I think thats right. If you look at places like alabama, theyve, you know icus are filled in montgomery, alabama, respirators, ventilators are all being used. That shows you we didnt wait for the indication we had 14 days of decline in the number of cases we had 14 days in the drop of hospitalizations before we opened up. And we opened up especially in certain cases, like georgia, recklessly, we opened up tattoo parlors and barbershops, in door restaurants and things like that, its important to remind the audience there are four contributing factors to increasing transmission, enclosed spaces, crowds, prolonged time with people and deep exhalations, singing, sneezing, shouting, coughing. Those are the things that con tribute to spread. Now its lucky that we dont have enclosed spaces because were spending a lot of time outside but we have a lot of other factors as was mentioned. Crowds, spending a lot of time with people and yelling, shouting, singing, coughing, sneezing. Thats not a good combination in the long term for a large number of cases. And that can happen at the beach weve seen it at the boardwalks. Yeah. Sorry, i didnt mean to interrupt you there. I think this is an important moment to get a little clarity. Were getting a lot of new information. Appreciate you both. You can hear more from dr. Emmanuel on his making the call podcast and his latest oped for the New York Times entitled could trump turn a vaccine into a Campaign Stunt. Still ahead, Gene Robinson joins us with his piece titled democratics stop worrying about losing, focus on how you are likely to win. Were back in just a moment. Stock slices. For as little as 5, now anyone can own companies in the s p 500, even if their shares cost more. At 5 a slice, you could own Ten Companies for 50 instead of paying thousands. All Commission Free online. Schwab stock slices an easy way to start investing or to give the gift of stock ownership. Schwab. Own your tomorrow. Schwab. With moderate to severe treplaque psoriasists uncover clearer skin that can last. In fact, tremfya® was proven superior to humira® in providing significantly clearer skin. Tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tremfya®. Uncover clearer skin that can last. Janssen can help you explore cost support options. A retired United States marine is receiving National Attention for his silent protest against Police Brutality. For three hours on friday, retired marine todd wynn stood in full uniform in front of the utah state capital, in salt lake city. He had tape over his mouth saying i cant breathe with a sign for george floyd, brioneon taylor and a couple others. Coming up on morning joe, the president and his allies use the defund the Police Movement to go after democrats. How joe biden and Top Democrats on the hill are trying to keep it from sticking. Well be right back. Ou want to create an entirely new feeling, the difference between excellence and mastery is all the difference in the world. The lexus es. A product of mastery. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. No uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. 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Once the house passes it, the justice in policing act, leader mcconnell will hopefully, he must swiftly take it up. The president must not stand in the way of justice. The congress and the country will not relent until this legislation is made into law. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi yesterday introducing the justice in policing act of 2020 at a joint News Conference of house and senate democrats. That came after the house members took a knee for 8 minutes and 46 seconds of silence in honor of george floyd. The proposed legislation includes a ban on the use of chokeholds, ban on noknock warrants in federal drug cases, a limit to the transfer of military grade equipment to local Law Enforcement and required training on racial bias and a duty to intervene. Republican senator mitt romney also announced plans to introduce bipartisan Police Reform legislation. While criticizing democrats for a bill that has yet to attract republican support. Meanwhile, two weeks of worldwide protests after the death of george floyd have already sparked reform at the state and local level. Minneapolis has banned the use of chokeholds and requires officers to intervene if Excessive Force is used by another officer. And the city of dallas has a duty to intervene policy to warn a suspect before firing a weapon. Still with us this morning we have eddie gloud jr. And joining the conversation msnbc contributor mike barn nacal, peter baker and columnist and editor of the Washington Post, euGene Robinson. Gene, i want to begin with you this morning, a fresh poll just crossed from your newspaper, the Washington Post, it shows that 74 of americans support the protests in the streets and 69 of americans believe that what we saw in the killing of george floyd is representative of a larger problem within Police Departments in the way africanamericans are treated by them. That represents a sea change even from six years ago after ferguson. There is something happening in the streets, there is something happening in this country, gene. There is a major change in Public Opinion. You see it in the streets. This is different from all the previous killings that weve had to talk about over the years, willie. Its the george floyd murder, which is what is charged, was so graphic and so awful, and it lasted so long, almost eight minutes and 46 seconds, that it i think it really touched something in a lot of people. It just basic humanity that you cant look at that and say that this is not wrong. That this must not stop. And so thats what people are saying. And i saw it at the protests last week. I saw a diversity that i hadnt seen in previous uprisings over police killings, and i think we see it in the grudging acknowledgement that were starting to hear on capitol hill from a few republicans even, that its time to do something. Now the question now will be exactly what we do. I think the bill that democrats released yesterday is a good start. But theres lots, lots more to do to begin to tackle systemic racism in this country that has plagued this land for 400 years. Eddie, weve been saying for a couple weeks now, that it does feel different but theres the danger in that statement because we heard this time feels different many times in cases of Police Brutality, in cases of school shootings, this time feels different but theres sometimes incremental change, sometimes no change at all. Whats your read as you see polls out now showing threequarters of the country support the protests in the streets that perhaps this is different when you look through the democrats proposed legislation, you see whats happening on local levels from minneapolis to new york city, is this Time Beginning to feel different, at least, eddie . I think so. It does feel different to me. But were at a cross roads. Our entire lifetime we have dealt with a frame of policing that has been determined by calls for law and order, by being tough on crime, about a war on drugs. And in many ways, those phrases, slogans, have been dog whistles, racial dog whistles, ways to mobilize white fear in order to police not only black bodies and communities but to police the ways we think of being together in our community. What were seeing in this moment is an attempt to dismantle that frame of thinking about policing. To challenge how we think ability communities and black folk, right. I think thats a good thing. What the democrats did, the legislation they passed yesterday was a good start. We need to understand theres a broader discussion happening across the country and within the protests to challenge that frame that carries forward deeply racist views about the inherent criminality about black communities and black people that we need to simply throw in the trash bin forever. So Vice President joe biden and Top Democrats on the hill are pushing back on calls from progressive activists to defund Police Departments. The president and his allies are using the movement to paint democrats as soft on crime. Here is joe biden, the Presumptive Democratic nominee explaining his opposition we dont have the bite at the moment but the Vice President says no, i am not effectively for Defunding Police departments. Multiple sources tell us jim clyburn told democrats on a private call to avoid being drawn into the debate over defunding the police. At a Law Enforcement round table yesterday President Trump pledged to maintain funding for police. There are not going to be any disbanding of our police. Our police have been letting us live in peace. We want to make sure we dont have any bad actors in there, sometimes youll see horrible things like we witnessed recently. But 99 i say 99. 9 , but lets go with 99 of them are great, great people. As you see in some of the papers, they want to end the Police Department. Quote, end the Police Department in minneapolis. End it. What does that mean, end it . You might have some cities who want to try, but its going to be very sad situation if they did, because people arent going to be protected. So, peter baker, the president there talking about minneapolis where the city council did vote and did say it wants to dismantle the Police Department in that place, as we were talking to eddie in the last hour, perhaps its the word being used thats not good for democrats, not good for the progressive movement. If the idea is to Reform Police and reallocate funds thats perhaps a different conversation but the president using his law and order message has taken this defund the police idea and tried to capitalize on it politically. I think thats right exactly. I think the term defund the police needs to be defined better so people can have a debate about what to do Going Forward. The president is using it to appeal to middle of the road voters as well as his own base to suggest that the democrats are captives of the radical left and if theyre allowed into power, theyll take things too far and there wont be police on the streets at all and there wont be any protection from crime. Thats a very strong law and order argument. It depends on whether it will work, though. The president tried this in 2018 with the argument that the democrats wanted to abolish i. C. E. , remember the border immigration and customs enforcement, and that argument didnt prevent the democrats from taking over the house. But the debate needs to be defined better so i think americans can understand better about what people mean when they talk about defunding the police, when they talk about in terms of overhaul what should be different, how should the departments be torn down or built up again or replaced by something else. Until then you have the president wrapping himself in this law and order message. A message he thinks is a political winner. But the polls suggest theres a lot of sympathy for people in the streets and the president has not been somebody who expressed sympathy for people in the streets or seemed to make a point of understanding the concerns theyre having. To the consternation of some of his advisers who think he needs listening events to understand the rage that the American People are feeling now. Hard to see how he can do it credibly now after two weeks of these movements. A lot of eyes were on joe biden to see where he would come down on defunding the police. Heres what he said in an interview with cbs. Do you support defunding the police . No, i dont support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain standards of decency and honorableness and are able to demonstrate, they can protect the community and everybody in the community. So, mike, President Trump in some of his tweets over the last few days have tried to directly connect Vice President biden to this movement of defunding the police. Vice President Biden coming out clearly yesterday saying he is not for it. Mike . Willie, you know, the word defunding, its sort of a side show. And actually, while the argument and the debates of a Police Departments around the country are critical and they are important, were taking our eye off the ball here i think a little. Gene, i wish you could speak a bit to the point of how difficult it is to be black in america. White people, a lot of white people, i think, dont understand that. Its just very difficult. I dont have to tell my kids i didnt have to tell my kids when they were 16, 17 years of age and getting their drivers license to be careful if they ever get pulled over, what to do with their hands when they get pulled over. I assume, i think we talked about this in the past, that you had to do that with your son and many black families have to do that. White families dont have to live through the same series of outrages that happen when youre black in america. Well, obviously thats true, mike. To explain, this is only a threehour show so i cant you know, i dont have time to describe the entire experience of being black in america. But yes, i had to have the talk with my sons as every black parent i know has had to have about what to do when youre pulled over by a police officer. How to speak, how to move, how careful and awe ten tashsly respectful you have to be. How asserting ones rights, ones Constitutional Rights could turn out to be fatal in some circumstances. And so thats something you live with. So theres a lot theres 401 years of other stuff that black people in this country live with. You know, systemic racism began in this country in 1619 when the first africans were bought and brought here and sold into slavery. And it continued for 250 years of slavery, it continued for another 100 years of legal jim crow segregation. It continues today with systemic discrimination in housing, in education, in almost every area of life, and it certainly continues especially in Law Enforcement and policing, and as eddie said, the framework of our police systems, which by the way, have always from their inception, been at least in part and at the beginning largely about controlling black bodies. About race. And the necessity, as was seen, in the 19th century, to have some control over black people, because otherwise what are white people to do. That was like a founding principle of early policing in this country. And it has really never gone away. And people now begin to recognize that and realize that, then thats a start. Then we have to fix it. But first we have to realize, just plain history, just what happened. And it gets to the point of the systemic racism that exists in this country that permeates every social system we have here. But much of the reason were having this conversation right here and right now is because of the killing of george floyd in the eight minutes and 46 seconds that chauvin kept his knee on floyds neck. A private funeral for george floyd will be held in his native houston today. Yesterday thousands joined his family to pay their final respects at a public viewing in this city. Floyds casket arrived at Fountain Church where mourners braved 90 degree heat before coming inside for their personal tributes. Well wishers Wearing Masks as a prevention from the coronavirus filed in lines where they were issued to floyds goldcolored casket to say their goodbye. By 5 30 p. M. , more than 6,000 people came to honor floyd, including the governor, mayor, and joe biden, who is pictured here, congressman Cedric Richmond of louisiana and the reverend al sharpton after a private meeting. Crump tweeted that the meeting lasted for more than an hour, during which biden, quote, listened, heard their pain and shared in their woe. Following the public viewing Floyds High School Community Held a vigil in his honor where his brother spoke to the crowd of attendees. I love yall for giving my brother this much support. You could have been anywhere in the world but youre here with us right now. This is a blessing. This is bigger than george right now. Were going is to stop everybody from being afraid of the police. We have good police, but we have bad police. You cant sort them out, so we got to figure it out right now. And craig melvin will be leading the special coverage of George Floyds funeral in houston today at 11 00 a. M. Eastern on msnbc, so a lot of eyes tuned into that. Of course well be watching that all together. Eddie, im struck we talked about in our last hour, the crowds, 6000 people braving the 90 degree heat. Greg abbott, a republican governor, met with the family and pledged a change in his cities and states, he talked about the possibility of a george floyd act to address policing. So as we talk about translating energy in the streets to policy change across the country at the state and local level and national level. Youre beginning to see dir different things, i think, than weve seen in the past. We have to see how we follow through, but i just want to note something. Were at a moment of incredible transition, a cross roads as we say in the blues, right. And what we hear from donald trump and all of these others about law and order, about being tough on crime, that discord is the rattle of an old america. Thats the language that says we dont want to change. So we cant be overly enthusiastic about or overly optimistic about what weve experienced over the last two weeks. The deep partisan divides in this country are still present. And people still appeal to deep, ugly white resentment as a way to hold off change. Were at a cross road. We still have to fight. So peter baker, that poll weve been flashing there showing 75 of americans, nearly 75, supporting the protests. 69 of americans believing that what happened to george floyd, the killing of george floyd is representative of a broader problem, also shows that the president has a 35 Approval Rating in the country for his handling of these protests. Where does the white house see itself right now . This obviously all comes on the handling on the heels of his handling of coronavirus, which, of course, is ongoing, his Approval Rating down in the 30s for that as well as he tries to roll towards reelection. Hes looking at National Polls that arent good, battleground state polls that arent good obviously as everyone has made clear theres a long way to go between now and election day, but what is the position of the white house . How does it climb out of this . Thats a great question. These polls, of course, go directly against what the president was saying, in effect he was rebuffing the protests in the streets and the people in the polls who say there is a broader problem. He says that 99. 9 of Police Officers are great, great people. While obviously a lot of people would agree there are many Law Enforcement officers who are great people, there is the broad sense that something is broken, that the system isnt working and it needs more serious attention, and what the president did was bring in Law Enforcement officials yesterday, he has yet to bring in anybody from the movement, he has yet to bring in any africanamerican leaders and talk about how to revamp or revise the system. Thats not the message hes chosen to send. He will say theres great revulsion at George Floyds killing, called his family afterwards to express his sympathy. But the predominant message he is sending that the talk about reforming the police is against law and order, which is mutually exclusive. His advisers are saying he should give a speech, hold a listening event to show he gets it. But so far that hasnt happened. There was talk about a trip to minneapolis, i think the white house held off on that recognizing that might not be a place the president would be welcome. Instead hes in his white house surrounded by fencing and concrete barriers and expressing irritation that anyone would think he went to the bunker. I think hes playing to a hard core constituency at this point without reaching out to the broad middle which is shown in these polls to be a concern. Still ahead, congresswoman Stacy Plaskett is standing by. She joins the conversation next on morning joe. 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The Congressional Black Caucus met with fbi director Christopher Wray to discuss the agencys response to nationwide protest and social injustice in america in the wake of the killing of george floyd. Joining us now member on the House Oversight and reform who led the conversation, Democratic Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett, she represents the Virgin Islands. I want to ask you about your conversation with director wray in a moment but first on the broad legislation put out yesterday by democrats in the house and signed on by democrats in the senate to reform policing in this country, do you believe it touches on all the areas that need to be touched on . I think the Congressional Black Caucus, along with democratic leadership looked at a range of legislation that members of the congress have been working on for a number of years to try and be laser focused on Police Brutality, to try and be focused on changing and fixing federal law, which was protecting and acting as a shield against those individuals who had righteous claims against Police Officers in other cases. So i think in the area of Police Brutality we have touched on those things that are important. Also, related to a national database, this is the beginning in a discussion of systematic racism in this country which needs to be dismantled at its root. But we know its going to take more work and thats not just a legislative fix, there are things that need to go on in the hearts and minds and social aspects of this country as well. We know that the senate is led by republicans and thats difficult for those in the house trying to get legislation threw. But do you believe in the moment, for the protesters, the movement we see in the streets, that some of the ideas you have put forward in the house may make it through the Republicancontrolled Senate . I think with all of us working together, with the number of individuals out in the streets in this country demanding that justice be done, that thats a voice that Mitch Mcconnell cannot dispute and cannot hold back from. And thats what were looking for, for individuals to go to each one of their senators, republicans and democrats, asking them to sign off and that they want to see that bill on the floor. As you can remember, our young people went out to the streets several years ago to ask for gun control legislation. The house, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, passed that bill and thats still languishing in the graveyard that Mitch Mcconnell has put forward as the grim reaper. I want to ask you about your recent conversation, congresswoman, with fbi director Christopher Wray. What did you seek from him . Why did you want to meet with him . What did you feel he could do to influence the conversation . I notice theres been a lot of reporting that he has tried to, in his own way, distance himself from that of attorney general barr, saying the protectors can be the problem for people of color out there to quell the protests. What was that conversation like . As someone who worked at the justice department, working for larry thompson, chris wray was my chief of staff when i was senior counsel in that group and knowing he was going over to the fbi, one of the things i was concerned about is attorney barr having dismantled the work of the Criminal Division and using u. S. Attorneys offices as oneoffs for his own investigations. And so, i reached out to director wray and to his staff to talk with them about what were they doing, what were they seeing to make sure they were protecting individuals who were utilizing their constitutional right to protest and also to question him about investigations that were going on. I was struck, particularly, by the discussion about the national database, which to date is voluntary for Police Departments to bring in information and give information about misconduct, about Police Brutality, and we were able to find out that only 40 of Police Departments in this country give information in that database. So part of the bill that we put forward by the Congressional Black Caucus is to make that mandatory. To ensure that Police Officers cannot go from one jurisdiction to another after being bad actors in one area and then going to terrorize individuals and communities, families, black boys, black men in others. I also want to say congresswoman, mike has a question for you go ahead. I wanted to say one of the things you mentioned, a quote from chris wray, i was struck by another question that he had saying the protesters were engaged in a righteous cause, i think thats how he set the discussion when we began. Im sorry i didnt mean to interrupt you congresswoman, we have a bit of a delay here but Mike Barnicle has a question for you. Congresswoman, yesterday the bill to redefine policing in the United States was introduced in the house and tomorrow theres going to be an extensive hearing on it. If you talk to a lot of cops, many, many cops, they will tell you one of the things about their job that exasperates them is the social work aspect of it. They feel theyre on the streets to provide order and law. Sometimes that has gone astray, we know that. But in order to reduce the social work aspect of the job, will the hearings focus on things like homelessness, drug addiction, Mental Health issues that many Police Officers deal with each and every day. Is there a way we can find, do you think, to separate those from actual active police work . Well, first let me say, as the granddaughter and then the daughter of a police officer, my father served on the new York Police Department for 30 years. We all know that many Police Officers have to engage in things that go beyond the scope of just acting as a in the protection area. They are engaged in service. And this is a community function. I think there are plenty of Police Officers who do enjoy that. But i do believe that the hearings will not only focus on that, but i think that youre going to see, throughout this country, many individuals and many mayors, governors, hopefully begin to move some resources over to the social services aspect in their jurisdictions because the militarization of our Police Department and the continua con ramping up of weaponry without training along with services that the communities need is something i think exacerbates some of the things were seeing, the deadly force being used, Excessive Force being used throughout this country. EuGene Robinson has a question for you, congresswoman. Gene . Congresswoman, i know democrats have the votes in the house to pass the legislation that was unveiled yesterday. But have you seen any anything from your republican counterparts to indicate theyre willing to even engage in this process . That some might be willing to support the legislation . Or are they still on the sidewalk . I think when you know members of congress and have conversations with them, you can begin to have those conversations that would cause them to begin to move towards supporting legislation, but they know, many of them know, its necessary. Unfortunately, one of things we have to remember, me as members of congress are not physically there during the pandemic so the kinds of discussion, negotiation, that would take place between members and members is going to be more difficult. And for that were once again also calling on the American People. In your protests, remembering to go this is a call of action to all people, to go and talk to your members of congress, to demand that they cosponsor this bill. To demand they vote yes on it, as well as going to the senators in your states to press them to be part of this movement to dismantle racism in this country. Congresswoman, as we continue around the horn, eddie gloud has a question for you. I wanted to ask two quick questions we wanted to do a check on st. Thomas and the Virgin Islands after the hurricane how are you doing . And two, do you think we are at this Inflection Point we can change the very nature of policing in this country . Had. I think were at a point where the American People are not going to allow us to do anything less. And we see that we have not abated in the number of protests that americans have been engaged in, letting democracy be heard. That americans are tired of this. All americans are tired. Im really surprised at the range of americans. Not just young, old people as well, our elders, seniors, white, black, support the notion that there needs to be change in our police system. First i want to thank you for your work and thank you for checking up on people of the Virgin Islands. I think this is another example of systemic racism in this country that the individuals, the families and individuals of puerto rico and the Virgin Islands still have not seen so much of the funding that we should have received from the hurricanes. We have not begun the rebuilding of our schools that were decimated. We have not begun the rebuilding from the hurricanes. I want people to remember, the Virgin Islands, 4 people that live in the territories, do not have the ability to vote for the commander in chief, even though we serve in more numbers per capita than most all of the states, actually. Its that systemic racism that during the insular cases in the 1900s said the inhabitants of the territories are alien races that cannot understand an go sackson forces of law and should not be able to vote for president nor have a voice in the congress. Those are the things were fighting for, the systemic racism that occurs throughout this country that needs to be dismantled. Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett of the United States Virgin Islands. To echo eddie were sending the best to your constituents and everyone down there. Thank you for your time this morning. Coming up this morning, medical experts are sounding the alarm over the spread of the coronavirus as the United States ramps up its reopening. Were coming right back. Its the 6 10 wokeuplikethis migraine medicine. The 3 40 midshift migraine medicine. Its called ubrelvy. The migraine medicine for anytime, anywhere a migraine attacks without worrying if its too late or where you happen to be. One dose of ubrelvy can quickly stop a migraine in its tracks within two hours. Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Few people had side effects, most common were nausea and tiredness. Ubrelvy. The anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair®. Weve got the retinol that gives you results in one week. Not just any retinol. Accelerated retinol sa. One week is all it takes. Neutrogena®. Welcome back to morning joe. Joining us now director of the Harvard Global Health Institute. He is practicing physician, also professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and someone we have relied on a lot the last few months here. Great to see you again this morning. We wanted to bring you in to offer clarity to our audience about the announcement and the amendment from the World Health Organization that asymptomatic transmission was, quote, very rare because weve been told we dont want to go out in public, mix with people, we need to maintain social distancing because we may have coronavirus and not know it and even though we feel well we could be spreading it to other people. What did you make of the w. H. O. s statements yesterday . Good morning, thanks for having me on. The bottom line is this, there are people without symptoms shedding virus and spreading the disease. Weve known that for a while and that continues. Nothing here has changed. W. H. O. Was trying to make a distinction between asymptomatic and presymptomatic people. This is an important distinction. But functionally what it means is there are still lots of folks out there who feel fine are infected and shedding virus. So we have to wear masks, maintain social distancing. Nothing has changed. I wish w. H. O. Was a little bit more careful about how it talked about these things because it has sown a lot of confusion. So what, practically, should americans what should people watching this show right now do with that information . Does it change behavior . No, thats the bottom line, willie. Nothing here is different. Theres no new study. Theres no new data theyre pointing to. There is a group of people who never ever develop symptoms. Those are truly asymptomatic. And what w. H. O. Is saying is that theyre not finding that those people shed a lot of virus. But there are a lot of other folks who feel fine, shed virus, infect others and later go on to develop symptoms. It makes no difference in terms of whether you should wear a mask or not, the answer is yes, whether you should socially distance or not, the answer is yes. Interested on your take on a discussion thats been taking place, which for three months the country has been told not to go to work, to school, summer camp, to stay home to prevent the spread of this disease. Now weve seen for two weeks, hundreds of thousands of people packed into the streets of this country. Obviously for a cause that is just. But obviously, an epidemiologist or Public Health expert like you has to cringe a bit not for what theyre protesting and demonstrating the cause of but for the Public Health concerns. How worried are you when you see the pictures of huge crowds of people together in the streets . Yeah, so i do think that the protesters have a righteous cause. But unfortunately a righteous cause does not mean that the virus is not going to spread. So i look at those and i worry. There are a couple of things that make me feel a little bit better. We think being outside helps. There is less spread outside. When i see protesters Wearing Masks i feel better. And at the end of the day, even in the most optimistic estimates are marching, its less than half a percent of the American People. While im worried itll fuel outbreaks, i dont think itll be a source of major outbreaks unless they continue for a period of time and then we have to worry more. Mike barnicle that has a question for you, doctor. Mike . Doctor, as you know, massachusetts is slowly reopening. Began monday reopening. Are we reopening too quickly . Are we reopening the proper way . Yeah, so massachusetts, i think, has done a very good job. Governor baker i think has been careful, has really staged this out. Weve seen substantial declines in cases for several weeks now. Testing has gotten better. Its not where i want it to be, and ive been pushing the state to ramp up testing more. They say theyre trying. But i think in general theyve done this slowly and carefully and thats a good thing. All right. Doctor, thank you so much we appreciate it as always and we will see you again soon. Coming up next on morning joe, republican senator Lisa Murkowski says what other republicans are not willing to say. Quote, i cannot live in fear of a tweet. Well discuss that when we come right back. How about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Guys guys safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 thats safe drivers save 40 . It is, thats safe drivers save 40 . Hes right there. Its him safe drivers do save 40 . Click or call for a quote today. Youre constantly weakening that enamel structure. Pronamel repair allows more minerals to penetrate deep into the enamel layer and it repairs it. It is pretty phenomenal. To sleepy smudges. To showerskipping. These days call for a quick clean. 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And now, with one of our best offers ever, were committed to helping you do just that. Get a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution for only 29. 95 a month for three months. Call or go online today. Murkowski including one where he promised to campaign against her when she comes up for reelection. I made the comments that i made. I stand by them. And, again, i think its important that we have a president whos working to bring people together, bring people together, and tone and words matter. I cannot live in fear of tweets. Thats where i am now. President trumps threat to campaign against senator murkowski came after murkowski also said she is grappling with whether to support the president in the coming elections. First of all, i just love the idea of President Trump traveling and trudging through the snows of alaska to campaign against Lisa Murkowski in a republican primary in a couple of years. But its such a measure of our times when its an act of courage to speak out as a republican against President Trump. We heard from a couple of senators in the wake of what happened in the clearing of lafayette square, ben sasse among them. The fear is they fear the president s tweet, they fear a primary if theyre viewed as going against President Trump. I pointed out a few weeks ago, ben sasse won his primary by 50 points, so perhaps republicans should speak their conscience and not worry about the tweets or the primary. Willie, youre absolutely right. Senator murkowski said she cant fear a tweet. We saw last week military generals across the board reject Donald Trumps theater of dictatorship. We saw them reject his c conscription of the military and we asked then, where are the state men and women and the republican senators . We saw that wonderfully disturbing, thats a better way of putting it, that disturbing image of the senators walking by kasie hunt without saying a word. Here we have in some ways a senator speaking her mind. Lets hope she acts on it in concrete ways in some ways to protect our democracy from what donald trump has been doing and continues to do. Well see if some of those senators are embolden as the president s numbers go down. Your latest piece is entitled, democrats, stop worrying with losing. Focus on how youre likely to win. What is your argument to them . Look, polls are a snapshot, but we got polls over the weekend that show joe biden well ahead of donald trump in the coming election. If the election were held today, i dont think there is any question biden would win overwhelmingly. The direction theyre going in is not a good direction for donald trump. Not being overconfident, not taking anything for granted, i think democrats should focus on the really important things that will help them win this election instead of handwringing, which is a national pastime. They should focus on, number one, the enormous protest movement going on in the streets right now. Some have been turned into Voter Registration drives. All of them should be turned into Voter Registration drives. And the Democratic Party ought to be building not just registering voters but a get out the vote machine for election day. That means volt by mail, having enough polling places on election day. That means defending our democracy. Thats to be their focus and i think the polls will take care of themselves. They have been doing pretty well now. Its very early, five months out. The polls at this moment look good for joe biden. Long way to go. I want to play for you what White House Press secretary was asked yesterday, if she agrees with President Trumps support of the black lives matter movement. Heres her response. Yeah, mitt romney can say three words outside on pennsylvania avenue, but i would note this, that President Trump won 8 of the black vote and mitt romney won 2 of the black vote. Yes, President Trump didden win 8 of the black vote in the 2016 president ial election. According to exit polls, mitt romney won 6 , not 2 as they said. Mitt romney was running against barack obama in that election. What an upside down world were living in when youre bragging about losing 92 of the black vote in an election. It is a bizarro world for all those d. C. Comic fans. Whenever donald trump and his minions Say Something about race, we autd to close our ears. They have nothing to offer in this discussion. Were trying to build a new america. Theyre trying to hold onto an old one. We need to understand that for what it is. Might have been an opportunity to embrace some of the Peaceful Movement happening in the streets instead an attack on mitt romney and bragging about losing 92 of the black vote in 2016. Still ahead on morning joe, more on the big stories, an economy recession, ongoing pandemic and gut check on Race Relations on this day when gg g george floyd is laid to rest. Whether you know what day it is or not. Consistency is key when taking on acne. And an everyday cleanser . Thats breakouts worst enemy. Love, neutrogena®. Can leave you holding your breath. But Bristol Myers squibb is working to change things. By researching new kinds of medicines that could help you live longer. Including options that are chemofree. Because were committed to bringing new hope into lung cancer care. Because when you want to create an entirely new feeling, the difference between excellence and mastery is all the difference in the world. The lexus es. A product of mastery. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Sixtytwo thousand seven hundred and ten dollars and thirtyone cents. Sofi allowed me to refinance all of my loans to one low Interest Rate and an affordable monthly payment. And i just feel like theres an end in sight now and that my debt doesnt define me anymore. Sofi is helping me get my money right. Joe. Obviously, a lot to get to. Its been just over two weeks since the death of george floyd in minneapolis. Nationwide protests against Police Violence showing no sign of slowing down. In Southern California yesterday, a number of processions led by hearses met at an intersection in los angeles for a Memorial Service where thousands gathered. In portland, oregon, demonstrators shut down interstates as part of protests. Portlands chief of Police Stepping down yesterday, saying she announced an africanamerican lieutenant to replace her. Outside the white house, protesters have turned the massive fence around Lafayette Park into a living memorial with hundreds of signs and works of art. This all comes as former Minneapolis Police officer derek chauvin, who was charged with murder in the death of george floyd, made his First Court Appearance yesterday. The judge granted the prosecutions request for a 1. 25 million unconditional bail. All this set against the back drop today of the private funeral for george floyd and the laying to rest of a man who was killed 15 degrees in minneapolis. So many people commemorating his life across the country. The private funeral, as you mentioned, for george floyd being held in his native houston today. Before he is laid to rest, thousands joined his family yesterday to pay their final respects at a public viewing in the city. Floyds casket arrived at fountain of praise church where mourners braved 90degree heat to wait inside before coming in for their personal tributes. Well wishers Wearing Masks as a precaution against the coronavirus filed into two lines as they were went to the goldcovered casket to say their goodbye. By church administrator, by 5 00 p. M. , more than 6,000 people had come to honor george floyd, including Texas Governor greg abbott, houston mayor, and joe biden, roger floyd, benjamin crump, congressman richmond of louisiana and the reverend al sharpton after a private meeting with floyds family. Crump tweeted the meeting lasted for more than an hour, during which biden, quote, listened, heard their pain and shared in their well. Following the public viewing Floyds High School held a vigil where floyds brother spoke to the crowd of attendees. I really love you all for giving my brother this much support. Yall could have been anywhere in the world, but yall here with us right now. This is a blessing. And this is bigger than george right now. We are trying to stop everybody from being afraid of the police. We have good police, but we have bad police. You cant sort them out, so we got to figure it out right now. Eddie, 6,000 people stood in the 90degree heat yesterday for the viewing of George Floyds body in houston. Today will be the private service. But you cant help but be struck and somewhat in awe of the crowds that continue to pour in the streets every single day. This is now it would weeks of this. It appears the enthusiasm, the passion, the fear, the anxiety, the anger pent up over generations is not going to ebb any time soon. You know, willie, i think thats absolutely right. When i look at the funeral, it reminds me of emmett till and how important open casket for viewing was. It transformed everyday black americans to step out and fight for their own freedom, fight for full citizenship. Here we have 6,000 people, bearing 90degree humid heat in houston, to view the coffin of george floyd. That happens against the back drop of ongoing protests around the country. What politicians should take note of, this was not a flash in the pan. This was an actual this moment is a moment to fundamentally police in america. They need to address it with substance and not just symbol. You saw the image yesterday of Democratic Congress appear leaders led by nancy pelosi taking a knee for 8 46. Democrats put out a new proposal about policing in this country. The president is said to be considering some parts of it. Do you see a government now that is standing up to meet the demands of people in the streets, perhaps, we didnt see after ferguson, for example, or didnt see after eric garner where there was passion and anger for a while and then the country sort of moved on. Were in this moment two weeks later and the seeing legislative steps being taken as well. You know, willie, i think so. 2014 was an interesting moment. We saw ferguson, the intensity of the ferguson protests. We saw a lot of young people put their lives on the line and nothing much changed after that. In some way the biggest change was the election of 2016 when the country decided to put donald trump in the white house. At this moment, i think the frustrations around 2014, the fact that that generation who came of age with obama in the white house, theyre now 22, 23 years old, theyre now in the streets in interesting sorts of ways. Theyre going to demand change. Theyre going to push for change because they in some ways have come of age among ongoing catastrophes. I think there is the opportunity for shift, but well see it more at the local level, the state level because it seems in washington, d. C. , substantive change has been gummed up by partisanship, deep, divided partisanship, willie. Thats right. You have a democrat house. Well see how this flies in the Republicancontrolled Senate. Of course, in the white house we should point out craig melvin will lead our special coverage here on msnbc of George Floyds funeral in houston. Thats today at 11 00 a. M. Eastern right here on msnbc in just a few hours. Among the proposals in the democraticled legislation, no chokeholds, baby cameras for all Police Officers. One flashpoint within the country and the Democratic Party is this idea of defunding the police. Joe biden and Top Democrats on the hill are calling back from progressive activists to defund the police. The president and his allies are using the movement to paint democrats soft on crime. Here is the presumptive nominee, again, explaining his opposition. You support defunding the police. No, i dont support defunding the police. I support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they meet certain basic standards of decency, honorableness and, in fact, are able to demonstrate they can protect the community and everybody in the community. Multiple sources telling politico that jim clyburn of South Carolina told democrats in a private call to avoid being drawn into the debate over defunding the police. So, eddie, this discussion, obviously progressive activists have been talking about defunding the police. Its become something of a semantic argument of what that means, but when you look at the Minneapolis City Council vote, they said explicitly we want to dismantle the Police Department. Is this a dangerous place for the Democratic Party to be when they have Public Opinion on their side right now, when they have all the energy in the streets, to be talking about taking money away from the police entirely . It can be politically, willie, but it also reveals were just in the eye in the storm of the divisions in the country are going to be made manifest as we continue be to try to imagine a new america. Lets be clear. We have examples of disbanding Police Departments. One just recently in 2017 in camden, new jersey. We have reports even in the new york city times in the way in which that move has impacted the move of Public Safety, in that city, that very troubled sti in some ways. Whats troubling about joe bidens response and jim clyburns response is theyre not dealing with the substance of the claim. Theyre just thinking about the politics and the optics. It seems to me that biden needs to be very, very clear that what defunding is all about is kind of reininvestment. The justice reinvestment movement, redirecting funds. To think about policing in the context of tough on crime, policing in the context of the war on drugs has led to an explosion in budgets. 54 of the budget in los angeles. 60 we can go on and on. But what we think about Public Safety in a different way, not within the context of the war on drugs or tough on crime or the criminalization of a particular set of communities, when we begin to think of Public Safety more broadly, we want to reinvest those monies in education, Mental Health, in social work, in a range in housing, in a range of policies that are not funded in the same level. That seems to be something joe biden should embrace. So, he might want to distance himself from the slogan, but he shouldnt distance himself from the substance of the policy, it seems to me. Eddie, its interesting you bring up budgeting ending in 2019 over a fiveyear span, 40 million going to the nypd, 6 billion and 7 billion respect tyly going to homelessness and housing developments. You think about that comparison within the new York Police Department and why so many folks are in the streets asking for defunding or reallocating undz here in new york. You have a lot of people say defunding the police is not going to get the protesters what they want. About the ideas behind plans to dismantle the Police Departments and explains why simply defunding them would not produce the results many protesters are calling for. Watch this. Really what were seeing now is people moving towards abolition. Its actually about not having no police but making sure, again, that communities have the resources so that you can have less of a footprint of police. So, ill give you an example. A lot of people have been asking me, if we defund the police, what happens when you call 911 . What i say back is if somethings on fire, what number do you call . You call 911. Who shows up . Its the ambulance im sorry, its the fire truck. If someone is having a heart attack, what number do you call . 911. And its the ambulance. What would happen if someone was overdosing or awe a couple was having a disagreement, or a child didnt feel safe. If you could call mental abuse resources, Substance Abuse resources, so if the resources they didnt have to call, so communities would feel safer and you werent introducing a badge and a gun into places they shouldnt have been and theyve been calling to get out of for years. Thats what the majority of protesters and activists i talk to say they want. They want more resources for 911 and communities make the decision when something has gotten violent enough you call in the badge and the gun. Im hearing people say, slash it 50 out. Theres no Union Contract in the United States that says anything other than, last in are also first out. That means if youre trying to cut it, youre actually getting rid of the youngest officers who are also the most progressive, the most interested in culture change. Thats not the department that protesters are asking for. So, if you dont end up following a road map and looking for ways to cut the right officers and cut the right programs, youre going to end up with tragedy in black communities. So, eddie, thats very well explained and well said. I think people in america are on the side of Police Reform, if you look at the polling, especially now. But when they hear the word defund, which literally means to take funding away from the police, they think youre getting ready of the Police Department. The camden, new jersey, is a little more complicated because they got county Police Officers, they hired private security. There was a police force in the town, they just reinvested and redirected some of those funds to be used differently in social services on the municipal level. So, what is that sort of perfect model, in your eye, from where you sit . I think what dr. Goff just laid out is absolutely right. We think these sorts of solutions are just really very simple and direct and clear. The problems are complex. And i think the resolutions to these problems will be complexed and nuanced. Its some combination of reform in the way in which we police and in some ways expanding services by reinvesting in education and housing and Mental Health services and the like. I think what dr. Goff laid out is precisely what im hearing on the ground from activists as well. Willie, lets be clear. It would be difficult to organize and rally and mobilize around the slogan, redirect the funds of the police to these things, right . So, the slogan is a shorthand. Oftentimes we find ourselves debating the slogan. We debated the slogan around black lives matter. People said all lives matter, blue lives mattered. They thought it was a narrow utterance. People debated black power. Didnt know what it meant. People even debated freedom now in the black freedom struggle with dr. King. Theres been this attention to the slogan used to mobilize folks in the street and in some ways to divert our attention when we should be paying to whats happening underneath the slogan, what the slogan is pointing us to. Whenever police are involved in a situation, the potential use of deadly force automatically comes into view. In some instances, the idea of deadly force being possible is absolutely unnecessary, willie. We need to begin to shrink the police footprint in our communities because theyre not the sole responders to every problem we experience. Theyre not the sole answer to the question of Public Safety. Up next, we will go to the white house for the latest on the president s reaction to the protests across the country and his campaigns plans to Start Holding those rallies again. Youre watching morning joe. Introducing new voltaren arthritis pain gel, the first and only full prescription strength nonsteroidal antiinflammatory gel available overthecounter. New voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. Voltaren. The joy of movement. I need all the breaks, new that i can get. Erful arthritis pain relief in a gel. At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. You should be mad they gave this guy a promotion. 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We want to make sure we dont have any bad actors in there. Sometimes youll see horrible things like we witnessed recently. 99 i say 99. 9, but lets go with 99 of them are great, great people. Just seeing some of the papers. They want to end the Police Department. Quote, end the Police Department in minneapolis. End it. What does that mean, end it . You might have some cities that want to try but its going to be very sad situation if they did because people arent going to be protected. Lets go to the white house and bring in nbc news correspondent carol lee. The president believes hes onto something here. We heard it in his Public Comments yesterday. Hes using it in his tweets saying the radical left democrats want to take money away from the police and getting rid of the Police Departments, using the example of minneapolis where the city council said they want to dismantle the Police Department. Hes struggling in poll that comes out. Hes had a terrible couple of weeks. Is this his new law and order theme that hes going with, that democrats, including joe biden, want to take money away from the police, despite the fact that Vice President biden went on the record to say hes against the idea of defunding the police . Yes, thats exactly what the president is doing. Look, were in the third week of this crisis, and President Trump is now, what he thinks, found basically the argument that he can make on this, where he feels like he stands on the strongest footing. He also has this opponent he likes to have in these sorts of in these kinds of debates. That is that the democrats are trying to take away funding from Police Departments. And the whole reason for this is so that the president can cast himself as an ally of the police and Law Enforcement and say that democrats are antiLaw Enforcement. This is where the president is going to lean into. It doesnt matter if joe biden said he supports it or not. Every democrat is going to be asked whether they support this and the president is going to continue to try to make them own this because he feels and people around him feel this is his best argument, this law and order argument. Thats his messaging plan. The question thats still hanging over the white house is whether the president will come up with any substantive plan to deal with the concerns that all of these tens of thousands of protesters are voicing in the streets. He has not said what he would do in terms of Police Reforms, not what he would support. He said yesterday theyre going to discuss some things. The White House Press secretary said the president is looking at whats a state issue, whats a federal issue, what kind of things he might be able to support. So far weve seen no specifics in that realm of this crisis, and yet weve seen the president repeatedly now, hit the idea that democrats are not on the side of Law Enforcement, and he is and thats where he thinks thats what he thinks the message is thats going to get some poll numbers that you just referenced back to closer to where him and his advisers would like them to be. He and his Campaign Team know they need something. You look at the national polling, the battleground state polling in places like michigan, which helped propel him to victory. Its not good. Hes down in double digits across those polls. Hes apparently now, according to many reports, going to start doing rallies at the end of this month, in a couple of weeks, despite concerns about coronavirus, despite continued concerns about large gatherings. Is that really on the board . What will those rallies look like . Those have become oxygen for him over years. He can go out when times are bad and be affirmed by those big crowds when he goes out to rally. What will a make America Great again rally look like in 2020 this summer . Reporter if the president gets his way, willie, it will look like the rallies weve seen in the past. A lot of his supporters feel comfortable with that. The white house and the president s campaign feel like theyll still be able to draw the crowds that the president has drawn in the past. Weve seen with the way the president wants to handle the Republican Convention. Hes not holding the Republican Convention in North Carolina because they might require things like social distancing and other measures to deal with the pandemic. Hes not so interested in that he wants to have his rallies the way they were. He feels good about to. Hes been itching to get out on the campaign trail for weeks. Now were told hell be presented with options of where he can do rallies in the coming days and were likely to see him do that in the coming weeks in the runup to the convention. Nbcs carol lee, thank you very much. Coming up next, attorney general william barr contradicts President Trumps claim that the president was taken to the white house bunker for an inspection during protests over Police Brutality. Thats not on morning joe. Your mission stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. And take. It. On. With rinvoq. Rinvoq a oncedaily pill. Can dramatically improve symptoms. Rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. And for somerinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. Thats rinvoq relief. With ra, your overactive immune system. Attacks your joints. Rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. Rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious infections and blood clots, sometimes fatal, have occurred. 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Schools must reopen safely with resources for protective equipment, sanitizing classrooms, and ensuring social distancing. Tell lawmakers and Governor Newsom dont cut our students future. Pass a state budget that protects our public schools. Attorney general william barr contradicted President Trump in confirming the president was taken to an underground bunker during protests late last month. Attorney general barr yesterday saying, President Trump was taken to the bunker not for an inspection, as the president claimed, but because of security concerns over demonstrations outside the white house. On monday we were reacting to three days of extremely violent demonstrations right across from the white house. A lot of injuries to Police Officers, arson. Things were so bad the secret Service Recommended the president go down to the bunker. Youll remember last week the president denied a New York Times report the secret service had taken him to a bunker for security during a protest and suggested he was, instead, connecting an inspection. That was a false report. I wasnt down. I went down during the day and i was there for a tiny, short period of time. It was much more for an inspection. It was never a problem. We never had a problem. Nobody ever came close to giving us a problem. They said it would be a good time to go down, take a look because maybe some time youre going to need it. It was always a little laughable that the president of the United States was down conducting a spot inspection of the world war ii era bunker beneath the white house for his own safety, but now attorney general barr, who we dont often see contradict the president , coming out and saying, no, its what you think it was. The president was taken to the bunker by the secret service during the protests to protect him from those. Yeah, just checking things taught down here, willie. Theres nothing wrong with the president seeking safety if, in fact, his security is at risk. Is he the president of the United States, after all. There is something about lying about it and the attorney general, as you mentioned, contradicting him. It turns out theres also some ads running in washington, d. C. , some campaign ads to apiece the president. The Trump Campaign running ads on cable news in the d. C. Area reportedly to perk up Congressional Republicans and reach an audience of one the president himself. That is according to the daily beast reporting the Trump Campaign spent a little over 400,000 for ads that began running this past may and are scheduled through june 23rd. Mostly airing on fox news but also cnn and this network as well, msnbc. The Trump Campaigns Communications Director said this, we want members of congress and our d. C. Based surrogates to see our ads so they know our strong arguments for President Trump and against joe biden. But two sources saying the ad buy had another purpose, to put the president himself at ease as he grows anxious about his reelection. They also said, quote, the campaign is hoping to counterprogram recent ads by critics that have driven the president to public outbursts. The ads in question were the work of lincoln pronl, a super pac run by a group of dissident conservatives and elicited furious reactions from the president s twitter feed. The president 14 points behind joe biden nationwide. I was speaking to shannon a little earlier and she said the president doesnt actually like to watch commercials so its want good to watch the president to run ads. You should be running those ads during sports because thats what he likes to watch, golfing in particular. He fast forwards through those ads like most of us. An astounding 400,000 spent in washington, d. C. Looking to turn washington, d. C. , blue, i guess. I kid, its as blue as it could possibly be. Theyre also trying to get members of congress to invigorate them in light of the new poll numbers, showing the president is not doing well, even among his own supporters who do not like the way hes handling this project. The lincoln project, that group of republicans, making ads against President Trump puts them right onto fox news where he knows the president of the United States will see them. Coming up, the World Health Organization says its very rare for asymptomatic people to spread covid19. We have a pair of doctors standing by to offer some clarity on that next on morning joe. Its the 6 10 wokeuplikethis migraine medicine. The 3 40 midshift migraine medicine. Its called ubrelvy. The migraine medicine for anytime, anywhere a migraine attacks without worrying if its too late or where you happen to be. One dose of ubrelvy can quickly stop a migraine in its tracks within two hours. 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Get a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution for only 29. 95 a month for three months. Call or go online today. It still appears to be rare that an asymptomatic individual actually transmits onward. What we really want to be focused on is following the symptomatic cases. If we followed all of the symptomatic cases, because we know this is a respiratory pathogen, passes from an individual through infectious droplets. If we followed all the sometic cases, isolated those cases, followed the contacts and quarantined those contacts, we would drastically reduce i would love to give a proportion how much transmission we would actually stop. The World Health Organization yesterday casting some doubt and causing some confusion about the spread of the coronavirus through asymptomatic infections. You heard a top w. H. O. Official calling asymptomatic transmission, quote, very rare, emphasizing it is not driving the spread of the virus. The new conclusion was drawn from new Contact Tracing data from several countries. However, preliminary evidence from the earliest outbreaks indicated the virus could spread from persontoperson contact even if the carrier did not have symptoms. Now, the w. H. O. Says that while asymptomatic spread can occur, it is not the main way that it is being transmitted. The comments are raising questions from leading health experts. The director at the Harvard Global Health Institute has blamed the w. H. O. For creating confusion tweeting out, the information from the w. H. O. Is not stellar and such a statement should be accompanied by data. He calls asymptomatic spread, quote, the achilles heel from the outbreak, frchlt dr. Jha. Previously w. H. O. Recommended only health care workers, people with covid19 and their caregivers wear medical masks. On friday the w. H. O. Changed its guidance and now is advising that in areas where the virus is spreading, Healthy People should wear fabric masks when unable to socially distance. Lets try to make some sense of all of that. Joining us now, former white house adviser for health policy, professor and vice provost at university of pennsylvania, dr. Emanuel, cohost of the podcast making the call and author of the new book which country has the worlds best health care which hits big bookstores next week. And with us dr. Dave campbell. Gentlemen, good to have you both with us. Dr. Emanuel, when the w. H. O. Says asymptomatic transmission is rare, weve been told for months that the idea of staying home is you could have coronavirus and not know it and just the act of going out to a Grocery Store or restaurant, you could be spreading it to people without knowing it. What did you make of the w. H. O. Comments yesterday . Well, i think the official went overboard compared to the official document, which i have here. If you actually read the document carefully, it says there are three studies that look at spread without symptoms. Part of the problem, this is what they didnt make clear, when you have asymptomatic spread is you never develop symptoms. You can only tell at the end. One thing we know a lot of people are most infectious one to three days before they have symptoms. They look asymptomatic because they dont even know they have the disease, but they can still spread it. While theyre not truly asymptomatic because they eventually develop symptoms but they look asymptomatic. If they were a little more careful, they would have said you can spread it when youre asymptomatic but still have symptoms and that makes it easier to trace. But people without symptoms can spread this disease. Thats the important point. People who havent developed symptoms yet have the virus, can spread the disease, actually are most infectious, and then they can go on to develop symptoms. So, we still do have to be very careful when people dont have symptoms and go out with a mask, make sure that youre staying six feet away because you could have the virus. You dont know yet. And you could develop symptoms. That is a key problem. It was a very confusing statement. True asymptomatic people who youll eventually know after two weeks, yes, they may be at low level. By the way, the w. H. O. Statement doesnt even show theyre at low level. They show they spread 0 to 14 , depending on the study. Its not zero. I think that was a very confusing and unhelpful statement, the way she said it. She is right that Contact Tracing can reduce the spread, but youve got to be a little more precise if youre going to make a major statement to the entire world about how this disease is being spread. Dr. Campbell this is one of the many moments americans have gone over the last four months, what . What does this mean for me . Asymptomatic versus presymptomatic, in plain english, what is the distinction and what are the capabilities for a ability to go back out and resume businesses and resume our lives again . Well, it has nothing to do with going back out and resuming our lives, or any change, i should say. When we speak of presymptomatic, its as if we need to be clairvoyant and know that those individuals will eventually develop the symptoms of covid19. The most wellknown ones and severe ones are cough, fever, shortness of breath. You dont know, i dont know whether today i may be in the beginning stages of having covid19, not know it and be very contagious, as dr. Emanuel says. Those are presymptomatic individuals. Those that are asymptomatic may have the disease in them, the virus floating through their system and never develop anything other than, perhaps, mild symptoms. The distinction between true asymptomatic and those that are presymptomatic and going to get sick is key. The speaker was making a point early in this process of identifying this information. It was useful but it was very confusing. I think all of us had to watch her reporting a few times and then read the World Health Organization statements to try to figure out and parse out the distinction she was telling us. It was important she was stressing over and over again that massive testing of those with symptoms is going to be the most valuable to identifying those that are likely to become secondarily infected. It was just a little snippet of information that got us all in a tizzy yesterday, but clearly wasnt the intention. There was something that wasnt spoken. Dr. Emanuel, you may want to speak to this, see if i have it right. Its the viral load that also has some relationship to how contagious or infected you are. You know right before you become very sick with a fever and a cough, the day youre going to become sick with covid19, youre very contagious. You have a lot of virus being shed from your respiratory system and if the viral load turns out to be higher in those that are very sick and lower in those that are true asymptomatic, there might be an explanation for what the doctor was saying. Zeke . I agree with you that there does seem to appear, its not definitive, that viral load, that is the amount of virus you actually have gotten infected with and have produced, is related to how sick you get. Thats not definitive. But it does appear that if you get a small amount of virus, you probably can navigate this without too much problem and getting too sick. If you have a large amount of virus, get exposed to it, you do get sick. Thats one of the main reasons to stay away from people, to wear masks, to reduce, if you happen to get sick, the amount of virus youre taking in. By the way, this is very common with viral diseases. For example, for smallpox, weve long known long known, they knew in the 18th century, that a small amount of virus gave you a mild case and made you immune. So, it was very beneficial. So that actually is a very consistent with other situations we know about. Appreciate you both, dr. Emanuel, dr. Campbell. You can hear much more from dr. Emanuel on his making the call podcast and his latest oped for the New York Times is titled, could trump turn a vaccine into a Campaign Stunt . Thank you both. Pulitzerprize winning columnist Connie Schultz joins us. Stock slices. For as little as 5, now anyone can own companies in the s p 500, even if their shares cost more. At 5 a slice, you could own Ten Companies for 50 instead of paying thousands. All Commission Free online. Schwab stock slices an easy way to start investing or to give the gift of stock ownership. Schwab. Own your tomorrow. Ive been involved in. 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Realize whats possible. No uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Welcome back to morning joe. We typically dont repeat or report on the president s tweets on this show but we thought this one was worth your seeing given everything thats going on in the country. The president just tweeted the following. Quote, buffalo prosecute tester shoved by police could be an antifa provocateur. 75yearold Martin Gugino was pushed away after appearing to scan Police Communications in order to black out the equipment. The president citing oan. He went on to write, i watched. He fell harder than was pushed. Was aiming scanner. Could be a setup, the president asks . Mike barnicle, lets remind people of this video from buffalo last week. The two Police Officers who pushed the 75yearold man to the ground was suspended and charged with seconddegree assault. Theyve pleaded not guilty. The president of the United States this morning after seeing this video is repeating a theory that this man flopped. A 75yearold man fell harder than he was pushed, says the president of the United States. Yeah, mr. Gugino is still in the hospital this morning as we speak. And this is the president s game plan. Its predictable. Its to start a culture war in this country because the country is so calm right now. But he is concentrating on the thing that he has concentrated on since the day he was elected and prior to that during his campaign. His intent is to wake up every morning and figure out how to further divide an already divided country. He is, as he said, the president of law and order. Thats where were going. Mr. Gugino is part hes a catholic social worker. 75 years of age. Hes spent most of his adult life practicing catholic social work, which is do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The president has information that no one else is privy to. And again, the president of the United States, as you watch that video, believes the 75yearold man who was pushed to the ground there perhaps was faking and overreacting as he lay hitting his head on the ground and blood coming out of his ear. We spent enough time on the tweet but thought you should know where the president stands on this. Lets turn to columnist Connie Schultz. Her debut novel is out now entitled the daughters of erietown. She notes married senator Sherrod Brown so never bored. No question about that, connie. Congratulations on the book. So who are the daughters of erietown . Well, they are the women of america over a span of five decades set in a working class town because those women have dreams and aspirations, too. Theyre not just white, i should emphasize. Particularly in this era of trump. That working class women are black and latino as well and women have always led such rich lives, but we seldom heard their stories. Its also, as i said, set in the working class. And one of the other narrative arcs is that our roots are our beginnings but not our excuses. Also i just want to say this go ahead. I also just want to say that when we say donald trump believes something, i wish wed always say this is what he wants us to think he believes. Thats one of the glorious luxuries of fictional writing. I can finally know for certain what people want, only in the book. Yeah, yeah. Well, of course, donald trump is distracting from the fact that all these numbers that weve shown this morning show the American Public turning on his handling of the protest, turning on his handling of the coronavirus over three months. Obviously, hes distracting people, but its an extraordinary moment in that tweet blaming the 75yearold man. It sure is. Back to your book for a moment, connie. The themes that run through this, it strikes me remain timely today. So whats the thread you see from the beginning of this book in the 1950ss through to today about women in america . I would say that women have always had their hopes and dreams. And when they come from the working class, the only thing that gets in their way is when the problem comes and theres no money to fix them. And that would be just as true as the men that they love, often. And so this is one of the most important things to remember about america in general, i think that we all have those hopes and dreams. Ive been writing about this for decade. The women who wait on you in restaurants, ring up your purchases at stores. The women who answer your phone when you answer the phone when you have complaints. They, too, have hopes and dreams. And so often they deposit all of that into their children and when they cant see their way clear for their children, they feel like such utter failures often. When, in fact, they have still ignited something thats called hope in the lives of their children. Connie, Mike Barnicle has a question for you. Hi, mike. Connie, as you how are you . There are, as you know, a lot of People Living in a lot of erietowns coast to coast. Youve written about a lot of them. But how much of you, your memory, your experiences are in this book . I so appreciate that kind of question that can only come from a fellow columnist. I think to some extent look, the souls and the hearts of the people in this novel certainly are in the hearts and souls of the people i grew up with. Also the two main professions of the two main characters, a utility worker and a nurses aid. And thats because that was those were the professions of my parents. And at one point, ellie does sit down and makes a list of all her job duties because she thinks nobody cares what she does. And that is a partial list of a list i found written by my mother after her death 20 years ago. And it haunts me to think my mother felt she needed to make that list. Even though she clearly made copies for everyone in the family, we never got them. What about brick, the husband . How many guys are out there like that, thinking they are man, i can shoot a threepointer from the corner. Im a senior in high school. Im going places and they think 20 years later, what happened . How many guys are out there like that . That is certainly true of certainly true of many men that ive known over the years and interviewed. Its especially true of a lot of working class men, particularly now. When you think about how and again, this is not just White Working Class men. These are the men who started integrating the plants and factories, too, and they were used to making big things. My father made electricity. I thought he made lightning bolts and sent them directly to our house, which does make it into the novel. By the time i was ready to go to college, even though my dad had a very good union job, had to sit down and realize if his wife did not go to work, i was not going to go to college. And i think at some level that broke him. Ive known so many men and reported on men who ended up killing themselves because they were so used to being providers for their families and they feel like theyve been robbed of everything they were. Connie, before we let you go, i want to ask you about whats going on specifically in the country right now. Youve written a column about focusing on tamir rice where you implore white people to listen right now. Tamir rice was a 12yearold boy playing with a toy gun and was shot and killed by police. What do you think people ought to know about him that they dont know . Its a name its on the list of the group. But why is his death, the killing of tamir rice, so central to what were talking about right now. Im so grateful you brought him up and especially grateful that you referred to him as a boy. Thats what he was. He seemed to grow from the grave and police some Police Accounts and public accounts and became bigger and older and more menacing. He was a kid and was shot within two seconds of Police Pulling up when he was playing with an air gun. The reason i wrote about him again is one of the things i learned from the death of tamir rice, and i live here in the city of cleerveland. When i attended his funeral, and it was packed, the only white people there were mourners i could have counted on two hands. And its become so increasingly clear to me that even the best intention of many white americans dont really understand that they keep asking how do we help in this grief . How do we help them . As long as they and them and as long as its the black community instead of our commune irkity, e not owning this problem. Thats why im encouraginge ini among many white writers and many black activists and writers that we should do a lot less talking and a lot more listening. If we do that, well start to understand that this is our grief, too. Very well said. Everyone should read the column and the new novel, daughters of erietown. Great to see you. Thanks so much, connie. We appreciate it. Craig melvin will lead the special coverage of the funeral of george floyd in houston today. Thats coming up in just two hours at 11 00 a. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. Thats going to do it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. Its tuesday, june 9th. Heres whats happening