Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200507

Sporadic for you, but not for a lot of other people. I agree, mr. President. Absolutely. Ive heard the opposite. A look at what the president does and does not want to hear. Good morning. Welcome to morning joe. Thursday, may 7th. Along with joe who is he . What planet is he from . We has a nurse in the white house, corrects a nurse. It has been sporadic. He saw the New York Post headlines, nurses having to wear garbage bags. Yes, mr. President , it was sporadic. Its been sporadic from the beginning. I havent said this yet on the show yet, but on february 22nd, you said it was just one person coming in from china. I havent heard that. Yeah, he said that. I dont like to repeat myself, so im sure i havent said it. Talk about sporadic. Saying that, talking about this big ban. I dont know if you knew this. 430,000 people came in from china to the United States from the beginning of this pandemic. 40,000 what . Even after his toothless ban. Leadership. To attack a nurse for telling the truth, that everybody on the planet knows is the truth. Willie, that just seems to be par for the course. It does. It has gotten better with ppe in places like new york city. Think of the context of that, where you had a nurse who works at a public clinic in new orleans, head of a Nurse Organization on National Nurses day, making an obvious point about ppe and the shortages across the country, and the president barks at her after shes told the story of watching a fourdayold patient die, and talk about the horrors of being in these icus and ers and treating these patients. Again, its the totally missing empathy gene, number one. Number two, the welcome of facts and the desire to spin this story, to spin his way out of what has been a disastrous response. Yes. It looks terrible. It is like in the david muir interview, when david muir basically talks about how were going to be facing Great Depression style Economic Hardship, and americans are going to be in pain. He asks the president , how bad is it going to be . Donald trump says, well, it is what it is. He doesnt even think about other people being hurt. He thinks about how a great deprecipitatid depression is going to impact him personally. No empathy whatsoever. Its just, like, i mean, i think one of the most incredible moments, showing how little empathy this president has. Again, a guy who said it was one person coming in from china on february 22nd, then itd be gone. The end of february, saying there was only 11 people coming in. Itd be gone. Then it was 15 people, and it was going to be gone. What a great job he was doing. Then he starts talking about disinfectants. I mean, this is a guy thats done such a terrible job. Youd think hed learn from it and become empathetic. Remember when Peter Alexander asked, what do you say to americans . That was a softball. It was, heres your chance to share your feelings with the American People and bond with them over what were getting through together. What did he say . He started screaming at him. Started yelling at him, saying, youre fake news. Youre terrible. Youre this, youre that. All because he was asked to empathize with americans who were hurting, who are suffering, and who are dying. You cant brand death differently. We saw it again in that clip. Along with joe, willie, and me, we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press, jonathan lemire. Nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie, d. C. Sunday nights on msnbc, kasie hunt. Good to have you on board. One day after suggesting the White House Coronavirus task force should start winding down, President Trump is reversing course. In a series of tweets yesterday, the president said, the task force will continue on indefinitely. Its focus on safety and opening up our country again. It may add or subtract people to it, as appropriate. The task force will be focused on vaccines and therapeutics. Heres what the president told reporters about his change of plans. Can you explain the change between what you said yesterday, about winding down the task force, and now saying youre keeping it . Yeah. It is different from what you said yesterday. I guess if you think, were always winding it down. It is a question of what the end point is. But i think it is a change, a little bit. I thought we could wind it down sooner. But i had no idea how popular the task force is, until actually yesterday, when i started talking about winding it down. I get calls from respected people, saying, i think itd be better to keep it going. Its done such a good job. Jonathan lemire, i mean, does he know that when you talk about shutting down a Task Force One day, and 24 hours later, you say people called him, that he is thinking and flying off the seat of his pants . Does he know he is exposing himself by the day, as to not being fully connected with the gravity of this problem . Is anyone helping him . This will come as a great surprise, guys, but the president reacts to Media Coverage and to outside forces when it comes to decisions. Thats what we saw here. He had there was no coordinated effort, per se, but the white house had had discussions in the last few weeks about gbeginning to wind down the task force, as it was going to pivot more toward the economy, moving reopening parts of the nation, and wanting to deempathize, publicly, some of the Health Crisis response. Weve seen the briefings go away. Although a lot of that, of course, was because the president s advisors realized it was damaging him politically. It was an effort not to make dr. Birx and dr. Fauci the public faces anymore. Instead, it was an attempt to change the conversation, to be more about the nation reopening and its economy. When the Vice President said the other day in a meeting that the task force was going to be starting to wind down by the end of may or early june, and the president himself reiterated that on his trip to arizona, there was some real blowback from Business Leaders, Congressional Republicans. The president does listen to them from time to time, calling the white house late at night. Also the Media Coverage, it was a major story yesterday on this show and others. We know the president watches. He responds to that. He has decided to bring it back. A note of caution, the tenor here is still going to change. The briefings are not expected to return. We have the White House Press secretary yesterday. We havent seen dr. Fauci or dr. Birx from the podium at the white house for some time. They are still going to be part of this, but the president and his team want them to be less visible for the public. They want the focus, even as cases are going up across the country, even as cases outside new york continue to rise, they want the focus to be the nation trying to get back to work, reopening, thinking it is more politically advantageous for the president. As jonathan says, if you listen to the president s comments yesterday, he said, fine, ill keep the task force around, but he was clear it is focusing to reopening the economy, not mitigating the pandemic, which is still with us and growing, which is important to point out. He wants to look at opening the economy. That instinct will be fed at 8 30 this morning eastern time, when we get our latest unemployment numbers. Its become a dreaded time of the week every thursday. Well bet tget the month of apr unemployment. Retail Sales Numbers were bad. All this will add to the pressure the president feels to reopen the economy and insist dp governors help them do that. Willie, it seemed he declared himself a wartime president against this virus, and now he is trying to declare victory and go home. The facts that americans across the country are living out every day dont bear that out yet. I dont know how many times weve been over this, but the reality still remains that if you want to pivot to the, you know, trying to clean up the economic damage, you know, there are so many questions still about where we are on testing. I mean, is the president s promise from months ago that if you want a test, you can get a test true . Not from what im hearing when i talk to people across the country, and others on capitol hill. You talk to members of congress. Theyre still saying many of their constituents cannot get tests. If they cant get tests, we cant find the cases. People arent going to feel safe going out. That fundamental reality is still the case. Obviously, the economic pain of this is so dramatic and intense, no one is disputing that at all. Again, for the reopening to actually work, and im hearing this from members of congress, frankly, on both sides of the aisle, there is an acknowledgment that were not where we need to be to start solving that problem. People dont have faith yet that it is safe to do it. Yeah. The testing, again, its something that business operators, ceos, its something that members on both sides, mika, have been talking about for such a long time. The importance to ramp up testing. The president has ignored them. Hes refused to use the dpa. Instead of holding press conferences, talking about testing, he talks about bleaching and asks dr. Birx if they can inject disinfectants. Whether they can put in lights. Instead of talking about testing, this is a president who contradicts dr. Fauci and says, oh, this may not come back in the fall. Dr. Fauci is saying, yes, it is definitely coming back in the fall. We talked about this sporadic performance. How horrible and weak his socalled ban was from china. February 22nd, saying this was going to be one person coming in from china. Dont worry about it. For months, saying you have nothing to worry about. For months, saying it was going oiw away in april. 75,000 people dead. This is something John Heilemann and i talk about all the time, there are consequences to this horrid leadership. You go, well, donald trump is never held to account. Yes, he is. He is being held to account not for a pandemic coming, but how horrid his response has been in january, february, march, and april, and, yes, even in may. People arent blind. They see who is doing the good work and who is doing a terrible job. Financial times just broke over polls. 71 of americans, likely voters, 71 of likely voters say they trust their governor to make the right decision more than donald trump on when to reopen government. The president s comments have been dangerous, and people know this. Yeah. 71 . 34 , only 34 , mika, of likely voters say that they are better off today economically than they were when donald trump first took office. Thats going to change. That number is going to keep getting worse. Donald trumps problem is and, donald, ive been trying to tell you this from the beginning. Sorry to keep repeating myself, but maybe one day youll listen and get it right. This is a health care crisis. You take care of the health care crisis, you take care of the economic crisis. You take care of the economic crisis, then you will take care of your political crisis. Youre being a day trader, as youve been your entire life. Youre worried about the next ten minute, as Maggie Haberman said. Always trying to survive the next ten minutes. Never thinking ahead. Youre incapable. You need to think ahead here, okay . You need to understand that if you rush people to reopen their businesses, if you keep lying to americans, how things are going to get better, just like you lied to americans, saying it was only one person and it was going to go away in january, and then in february you said it was 11 people and it was going to go away. In march, you said itd go away magically in april. You were looking forward to april. Talked to africanamerican leaders and told them it was going to be like magic, and it was going to disappear. You Start Talking to dr. Birx. Im not a doctor, dr. Birx, but you ought to look into disinfectants and injecting them. So embarrassed. Putting lights into peoples bodies, to see if that beats the virus. Continuing to lie. The vaccine was going to be ready soon. Said that back in anyone can have a test. In march. Anyone who wants a test can have a test. March 6th, anybody who wants a test can get a test. These are the sort of things that shatter their confidence in you. I will say it again, follow your own white house guidelines for reopening america. The ones that dr. Fauci and dr. Birx put out. The ones that you announced. The one that jared supported. Follow those guidelines, and everything will be okay. But you cant do that. Mika, because he hasnt had any discipline whatsoever, because he cant even follow the white houses own guidelines, the death toll will continue to rise. Thats what doctors say. And, beyond that, his poll numbers will continue to collapse. Well, he trails joe biden by nine points. Of course he does. In a new Monmouth University poll. If the election were held today, biden would win 50 of voters support, up two points since last month. Trump would receive 41 , down three. Bidens support includes 56 of women. 20point lead over donald trump, who hits at 36 among that demographic. Among men, trump is up two points, 46 to 44 . Willie, weve been seeing over the past several years, rolling numbers that have surprised political analysts. First, women, suburban women, breaking away from donald trump quickly in 2017. A year ago, we started seeing polling shows that workingclass women also breaking against donald trump. Making things you know, people that supported him in the past. Now, in this poll, donald trump is within the margin of error among men voters with joe biden. That gender gap, among men, is completely erased because of his poor leadership. Yeah. As shocking as that number among women is, a 20point spread, which would be fatal if it lasted through six months into election day, thats a stunning number. But the men number, thats where donald trump dominated, of course, hillary clinton. It is why he won. Kasie hunt, you look at those numbers and, again, it is a national poll, we should first say. This isnt how we conduct our elections. It is six months out. But donald trump has to know that his presentation every day up in those briefings, and his performance as president , his trustworthiness, his unfav unfavorability in this poll and others, are going with the economic numbers hes trying to undo by sending people back to work, would spell doom if they lasted until november. This gender gap, if it persists in this way, and if this is actually how voters are if people are still telling pollsters the truth sometimes they say people arent willing to say they support the president. It was a phenomenon in 2016. But this gender gap is going to make, if it holds and turns out to be real, is going to make 2018, you know, pale in comparison to what it could look like in 2020. Suburban women went to the polls and overwhelmingly sent a message to washington, that they wanted a different style, a different kind of leadership from their leaders. You know, we read a lot of anecdotal stories and reports about how the coronavirus pandemic is falling disproportionately on women. You see this a little bit in the polling, as well, when you look at how concerned and worried people are about how this impacts their lives. Theyre the ones, by and large, shouldering the burden of homeschooling their children. Theyre lysoling the food when it comes in the door. Theyre thinking day in and day out about what does this mean for my family . Thats not to say, obviously, that men arent playing that role. Of course they are. But when you ask broad swaths of the public, a lot of women will say, look, this is falling on me. I am really worried about what is going on here. I think that contributes and plays a role in setting up a dynamic that has existed and, if anything, its making it worse for President Trump. Jonathan lemire, the numbers, weve seen the numbers just collapse over the past month or so. They continue to collapse in just about every area nationally, with swing states. We saw the poll among likely voters. People just dont trust donald trump anymore when it comes to handling this pandemic, the greatest crisis since world war ii. What is the latest that youve heard from the campaign . I know that Donald Trumps very angry at Brad Parscale because hes made millions off of him and feels like parscale hasnt done anything. He cant anything but gotten rich off donald trump, after theyve spent millions and millions of dollars online, and trumps numbers keep collapsing. Blaming your Campaign Manager for getti inting rich off after might make donald trump feel good, but it is not going to help him at all. After all, whether he likes it or not, the buck stops with donald trump. Whats the campaign saying now . Whats the Campaign Thinking now . What are whats their next move . Theyre getting beaten by a guy in the basement. Thats what the president has said. During his angry outburst at Brad Parscale that we reported a couple weeks back, he declared he wouldnt lose to joe biden, made reference to the basement and mixed in colorful language i cant use here. There is real alarm from the campaign in all the polls on a couple fronts. You hit on one, kasie and willie and so on, with women. They know women broke away from him significantly in 2017 2018. There was going to be an effort to try to reengage in the first with women in the first months of this year. The whole campaign has been and their strategy has been scrambled by this pandemic. They wanted to spend the first few months trying to define joe biden, trying to use their significant financial advantage to do what the obama folks did in the spring of 2012, bludgeon him with ads and a negative definition from which he couldnt recover. That cant happen because of the pandemic. They were meant to have in roads with women, also put on pause because of the pandemic. Other groups, there is an effort from the Trump Campaign, they were devoting a lot of resources to try to win some minority support, particularly among africanamerican men. There was going to be a real push there. They thought they could get even the margins, they expected, would be so slim this november, if they could even win off a slice of that support, africanamerican men, some latino men, away from joe biden, either to the Trump Campaign or to get them to stay home, to think there wasnt much of a difference between the candidates, that might be enough to tip some of the battleground states. Now, we are seeing the brunt of the coronavirus falling on minorities, africanamericans, latinos, who have suffered disproportionately. Thats another thing that this campaign is struggling with, as they try to reverse some of the polls. They are very anxious about the economic numbers, the jobs numbers, the unemployment numbers coming out this week. That was going to be the president s best argument for reelecti reelection. That is now gone. Remember, mika, when africanamerican leaders came in at the end of february to talk to donald trump about this, he said its going to just go away. Dont worry about it. It will go away like magic. Now, its those africanamerican leaders who have seen their communities ravaged by this pandemic that donald trump guaranteed them would magically go away. Still ahead on morning joe, were going to talk to former fda commissioner, dr. Scott gottlieb. Also, live coverage of todays important jobs report as it crosses. Plus, you know the thing that the president does when he spends a week attacking a book that he doesnt like, only to help push it to the top of the best sellers list . Thank you, mr. President. Hes doing the same thing to one of the most effective political ads in recent memory. Well talk to one of the strategists behind that ad, steve schmidt, straight ahead. Youre watching morning joe. 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And safe, convenient installation. When every connection counts, you can count on us. Get the connectivity your business needs. Call today. Comcast business. Here now is more from the piece of sound that we played at the top of the show. President trump during an event yesterday at the white house, honoring nurses, contradicting a nursepractitioner who described her access to personal protective equipment as sporadic. Are you seeing now that the supplies are what they need to be . Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. I think it is sporadic. I talked to my colleagues around the country. Certainly, there are pockets of areas where ppe is not ideal. But this is an unprecedented time. Ive been reusing my n95 mask for a few weeks now. I just broke out a new one to come here, just in case i needed to wear it. Ppe has been sporadic, but its been manageable. We do what we have to do. Were nurses, and we learn to adapt and do whatever the best thing that we can do for our patients, to get the job done and get the care provided. Thats what were going to continue to do as covid19 continues. Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people. Oh, no, i agree, mr. President. Absolutely. Ive heard the opposite. Yeah. I heard they are loaded up with gowns now and, you know, initially, we had nothing. Empty shelves, nothing. It wasnt put there by the last administration. Ive heard that we have i just saw it yesterday, where theyre making millions of masks a month in a factory from, you kn know, in that case, it was arizona. Its great. We have other factories being built now for masks. For the most part, i have i mean, that was fine, but ive heard we have tremendous supply to almost all places. Tremendous supply. To a point where were going to start having some of our supply go to other countries, which need it very badly. Its just so embarrassing on so many levels. Joining us now, epidemiologist and professor at boston Colleges School of nursing. Nadia, id like to point out from what we just saw, we had these nurses and those professionals in the white house, front line workers, not Wearing Masks and not 6 feet apart. Obviously, in a very nervous situation with the president of the United States, where the president ran over them. Doctor, are you hearing reports of tremendous supply of ppe . From my understanding of whats happening here at local boston hospitals, many of the larger hospitals with resources actually have supplies of ppe. Its really the smaller hospitals, the communitybased hospitals, those that are providing outpatient care, that may be struggling to maintain their supplies. Ive also heard that hospitals have been getting creative with ways to sanitize their masks and make sure they have enough supplies for their front line workers. With your experience, obviously, with front line workers, but also epidemiology, what do you feel about businesses reopening in the next few weeks in certain parts of the country . It does make me a bit nervous, that were reopening a bit too soon. What were seeing in many states is actually still an increasing number of cases and an increasing number of deaths. This suggests that were not really through the worst part of this epidemic yet. Its really concerning that some states are going back to normal. It does suggest we may see an increase in the number of cases in these states in the next few weeks. Of course, those cases will actually lag behind the reopening. It may seem that everything is okay for a week or two, but then the numbers may start rising. Thats really what worries me about these situations. How much would Rapid Testing change our ability to reopen safely . I do think that the reason why weve been in lockdown there are a number of reasons. One is to let the Health Care System keep up with the demand. Another reason is, hopefully, to buy a little bit of time, to start improving our Testing Capacity, start improving our capacity to Contact Trace and isolate people who are positive. Certainly, an improvement in our testing, whether thats sort of quick diagnostic testing, or whether thats providing a landscape of test, trace, and isolate. I think these are all things that we should be thinking about improving during this time of lockdown. As youve mentioned, some states decided to move out of lockdown without that supply chain and also without a system in place, to try to prevent new infections and spread in these areas. Yeah. Willie, ill throw it to you, but just highlighting some key points here. Most experts that we talk to say testing gets us back much more safely, especially the Rapid Testing. Again, driving it home here, the reason we are in lockdown is to buy time to get our act together on testing and, yet, the president refuses to invoke the defense production act, to get it together more quickly, in a more uniform, organized, coordinated way. We are stuck in lockdown because we dont have our act together on testing. This president refuses to do the one thing that could make it actually more effectively happen. Its unbelievable. Across the country, theres been calls for a National Program because it is an ad hoc program, going state to state, trying to get people testing. Doctor, as an epidemiologist, taking maybe a longer view than people surviving the day and getting back to work, a lot of families are thinking whether or not their kids are going to summer camp, whether or not theyre going on vacation, whether or not in the fall their kids may go back. How are you looking at sort of the scope of this and the spectrum of this . How long may it last . How optimistic are you that kids will be back in school in the fall . I think a lot of this, again, depends on the system that we can have in place, to be able to test people, to be able to Contact Trace and make sure were protecting all of the potential contacts, to be able to isolate people, and then also to be able to treat and support people. Really, the timeline is going to depend on our ability to get the system in place. I do think that this is going to be a bit of a longer lasting epidemic than people might be expecting. I think people should really plan to maintain social distancing for a pit lobit long especially to protect their families and the vulnerable in the population. In my perspective, i dont see this epidemic ending any time soon. I do think that a vaccine will really be needed in order to make this sort of an official stop, have an official stop to the epidemic. Again, this system needs to be in place. We need to be able to test. We need to be able to trace. We need to be able to isolate. Until that happens, im not sure that it would be really safe to go back to all of our normal activities. What would change that trajectory in your mind . Would it be a National Testing program . As you suggest, youre not alone in saying, were not on that trajectory right now. Were not testing nearly as much as wed need to be to get kids back in school in the fall. What would you like to see as an epidemiologist, if you had your wish list . What would happen this morning to make it possible for people to go back to work and eventually go back to school . Sure. I mean, i think its really important to note that before this epidemic began, unfortunately, our Public Health system was underfunded and, in fact, defunded. Really, we need an investment in Public Health in this country. We need an investment in a National Testing campaign. We need an investment in Contact Tracing supplies. That involves a huge amount of Human Resources or digital technology. We need investment in the Public Health pipeline. I think that that is going to require strong and effective leadership thats really invested in, again, this campaign of test, trace, and isolate. Doctor, thank you so much. Please come back. We really appreciate it. Jonathan lemire, we heard the president i just want you to factcheck this blaming the Obama Administration for leaving the cupboards bare, for not having enough emergency supplies. Aside from the fact that the Obama Administration did a severe, multiday, many hours of warning this administration during the transition that a pandemic was a massive possibility, and gave them, like, a cheat sheet for idiots as to how to deal with it, that susan rice met with the National Security adviser about five National Security advisers ago, who is now in jail, warning him. I dont think he is in jail but about how this could be a National Security threat. Hes what . I dont think he is in jail. Hes under might be. Might be going to jachlil. One of many form eer members of this administration. Let me ask you this, what is the fact check on those comments, is the president right . The president is not right. Not entirely. Its a claim he makes repeatedly. Hes done it throughout the pandemic, and he certainly did it the other day in his abc interview. Not only do former obama officials dispute the claim, so do, with a little research, news reports from the time. News reports from 2015 2016, yes, there was some reduction in the supplies thanks to congressional pubudget cuts. But the stockpile was still pretty robust across the board. The obama officials have said that they, as you indicated, they gave them a road map. They gave them briefings as to how a handle a pandemic. As did george w. Bushs Administration Prior to that. That administration really ramped up efforts to be ready in case there were a pandemic. The obama team took it from there, attempted to hand it off to the Trump Administration. And not only were the cupboards not entirely bare, but President Trump has been president now for more than three years. So if there were deficiencdefic reductions in the stockpile, he certainly had ample opportunity to restock it. By his own admission in the interview, he said he was preoccupied by other things. He, of course, blamed the russia probe, the ukraine impeachment, instead of taking any sort of responsibility to bolster the supplies needed, in case there were a crisis like this. Again, jonathan is right. He was president for three and a half years. Even in january, when he started getting warnings. He started getting warnings, and his administration got warnings in january. They were not little warnings but blaring red lights. The pentagon, intel, intel communities gave president ial briefings in early january. Joe biden. Yeah. You had the head of hhs trying to talk to him even. Middle of january, donald trump finally talked to him but didnt want to talk about the pandemic. He wanted to, instead, yell at the head of hhs because donald trump wanted flavored vaping to get out there. I guess he likes teenagers having flavored vaping. Im not sure why he was talking about that instead of a pandemic. Yes, you can go to the end of january, when donald trump is saying that theres nothing to worry about here. Praising president xi and praising china for their transparency. Yesterday, i guess i have to take this offramp for one yesterday. Yesterday, donald trump was saying, i never praised chinas transparency, talked abouttrans not true. January 24th, donald trump was tweeting his gratitude to president xi, specifically for chinas hard work and transparency. Told americans, willie, everything was going to be okay. Then said, on behalf of the United States is willie there . Yes. Willie, are you there . Are you at moon base four . Wondering if i can see willie when im talking to willie. This is what donald trump said on january the 24th. China has been working very hard to contain the coronavirus. This is january 24th. By the way, the same time that china was not sharing samples with people in the Trump Administration who were desperate to get help from china. But they with respeerent provi. United states greatly appreciates chinas efforts and transparency. January 24th, donald trump, instead of ramping up ppe, he actually was shipping ppes to china. It will all work out well, donald trump says. In particular, on behalf of the American People, i want to thank president xi. There we are, january 24th. Instead of getting prepared for the pandemic that was coming to america, that has killed 71,000 people now. Im sure well be up to 80,000 by the beginning of next week. Donald trump wasnt preparing. He was president for three and a half years. He wasnt even preparing in january. He was too busy kowtowing to china and praising their, quote, transparency, to get americans prepared. Not democratic americans, republicans, independents, democrats alike. He was too busy kowtowing to china and praising chinas, quote, transparency, to prepare us, even in january, for the coming pandemic, to protect health care workers. Even in january. And you dont have the go all the way back to january. He was saying nice things about china and the job president xi was doing in late march, until he realized china was hiding information and had been the source of this outbreak. You know, theres a reason that 20 some percent of americans believe the words that come out of the president s mouth, only 20 some percent. That includes, obviously, people who support him, who dont believe the words that are coming out of his mouth. He counts on a volume of news and tweets coming out, so you wont remember the thing he said the day before, let alone what he said tlooe monhree months ag. He can revise and rewrite history, as he did with the nurse in the oval office. Saying, no, the ppe story is fine. It is just you complaining about it, and barking at a nurse there to mark National Nurses day. He knows and has known for five years now that the sheer volume of news that comes out, he thinks, the thing he says today wipes out the thing he said yesterday. We we, unfortunately for him, have the documentation. We have the tweets and the sound bites. Listen, mika, you know, i dont like repeating myself. Willie knows this, too. Its one of the things when you work with people long enough, they get you get to know how they work on the air and everything. Im not a repeater. Im just going to say this once and one time only. Youre right about the tonnage of news that falls on us. Ive got to say, one time, and one time only, then ill never say it again. Ive never heard this before. You dont know what im going to say. Im going to be so surprised. You know what . Mocha, well do it next time. I think its a good idea. January 22nd though, let me say this. January 22nd, donald trump said, when asked in davos, hanging out in davos. Yeah. Mr. Working class hero, hanging out in davos, while a pandemic is coming. January 22nd, hes asked by cnbc, hey, what about this coronavirus . It is only one person coming from china. One person. Itll go away soon. Everything under control. A month later, a month after joe biden is warning americans that donald trump is not prepared for the pandemic, a month later, donald trump saying, it is only 11 people. Soon it is going to be down to ze zero. Then he goes, it is 15 people. Soon itll be down to zero. He tells africanamerican le leaders it is going to disappear like magic. Nothing to worry about it. Stay calm. Nothing to worry about. In early march, it is going to go away. Through march, talking about how in april itll magically go away when the weather gets warm. He brags about this ban. Dont know if you knew this, mika and willie, but 430,000 people got in from china. Yes. From the beginning of the coronavirus. 430,000 people. Get this, this was a toothless ban, that 40,000 people got in from china, even after the ban was put in place. He was begged by his hhs officials to implement a ban from europe. He listened to Steve Mnuchin and said, lets not do that. It might spook the markets. It got spooked when all the people came from europe to new york city mainly, and infected new york city. Then the markets crashed. Yeah, willie is right, there is a mass tonnage of it. I wanted to get that off my chest. Okay. You know, you go back to january 22nd and february, there are a lot of markers there that, i dont know, maybe well Start Talking about a little pbit mor. So its if youve noticed a sense of frustration here, this is this president s eye has been off the ball. We heard the doctor in the previous segment explaining explicitly why we are in a lockdown right now. The reason why were in a lockdown is so that we can buy time to develop Rapid Testing. By all accounts, hes not doing what most people, uniformly is believed, to be the best possible i dont know if i said this before, as well. The best possible way to get Rapid Testing to the american citizens is to use the defense production act. This president refuses to do what we need to get back to work safely. Testing, testing, testing. Its what hes heard from months and keeps ignoring. It is going to be known in history as a deadly po lly botc a catastrophe. Coming up, video has emerged that appears to show a georgia man chased down by two armed men while jogging. Then shot and killed. Reverend al sharpton joins us next as the family calls for justice. New cell phone video emerged showing a 25yearold georgia man shot and killed after two armed men chase him down. His family claims he was out jogging and are calling the killing a hate crime. Nbcs kate snow has the story. A warning for you, the video you are about to see is graphic. Reporter in the video leaked on social media, 25yearold africanamerican arbery is seen running on an afternoon in georgia. As he approaches a pickup truck, he swerves. Gregory mcmichael, and his son, travis, white, were both armed. Travis fires a shotgun and kills arbery. In a Police Report that day, gregory mcmichael, a former Police Officer who worked for the local l. A. s office, said he saw someone he thought was the suspect in recent breakins in the neighborhood, hauling ass down the street. He and his son attempted to intercept him, thinking he could be armed. Mcmichael also said arbery began to violently attack travis, and travis fired two shots. Three shots are heard on the video. An attorney for arberys family said he was unarmed, and there is no evidence to suggest arbery was committing a crime. Arberys mother said her son was out for a jog. It really breaks my heart. He didnt know he was in the last minutes of his life. Reporter she and supporters of the family have been demanding justice. Two prosecutors recused themselves from the case over potential conflicts of interest. One writing, he thought the mcmichaels actions were legal, and they were acting in selfdefense in the skirmish over the gun. On tuesday, the d. A. Now responsible called for a grand jury to consider criminal charges. Because of coronavirus closures, that cant happen until june. Theres nothing preventing Law Enforcement from arresting these men, other than their lack of desire. Reporter why do you think they lack a desire . Because of the close Law Enforcement ties to the community, and theyre protective of their whiteness. Reporter the Georgia Bureau of investigations is on the case. Nbc news has been unable to reach the mcmichaels. This friday would have been arberys 26th birthday. Just thinking about his laugh, seeing his smile. Thats gone forever. Reporter kate snow, nbc news. Lets bring in the host of msnbcs politics nation, president of the National Actions network, reverend al sharpton. I looked at the video. Im confused. It looked like he was jogging, and he got shot. Am i missing something . Are there other angles of the video that show Something Else . Absolutely not. By the way, if he is breaking into houses, i dont think he is going to be he wasnt, quote, hauling ass. It looked like a leisurely jog down a main street in a welllit like in the middle of the day. Couple weeks ago, National Action network and i got involved, and we had not heard of the case. We knew the lawyer when he reached out. When we were told the story and looked into it, we decided to get involved. I had jeff merit, the attorney and mother, on politics nation sunday night. Video came out midweek and vindicated everything they said. The video clearly shows rev, what do we what do we see in that video . It looks it looks like he is jogging down the street. These guys are in the pickup truck. He jogs around the pickup truck. Then you hear three shots. What have you seen by looking at this video that we may have missed the first time . Theres nothing that weve seen. As you know, joe, theres probable cause there to make an arrest. If it was the other way around, if it had been someone shot that was black, got out of the truck, stopped the jogger, we feel there would have been an arrest. They would have told the black assailan assailant, tell it to the judge. Thats what they ought to say to this man and his son. Tell your story to the judge. That video says you have no cause, no selfdefense, and shot and killed a man that was nearly jogging while black. This is outrageous. I think that it demands an arrest immediately today. His birthday is tomorrow. We couldnt think of a more appropriate way to make sure that this mother, who is going to mothers day without her son, and father, deal with the fact that at least there is a step toward justice with an arrest. An arrest is not a conviction. It starts the process. To not even start the process is blatantly disregarding the law in favor of this man, who ought to know better, since he was on Law Enforcement for 30 years. Willie, this looks an awful lot like George Zimmerman deciding to be neighborhood patrol, be judge, jury, and executioner at the same time, when he shot down the trayvon, because trayvon had some skittles in his pocket. Yeah. I had the same thought as i watched this. Obviously, we want to know a lot more, and there should be an investigation that goes deeper into this. This happened back in february, as rev pointed out. Were now into may. We need some more answers on this. But it does appear, as you watch that horrifying, horrifying video, and we only showed you a part of it there, that these two men deputized themselves, saw someone they thought looked like the suspect in a robbery jogging down the street, and then the claim of selfdefense here is a man who these two guys who initiated this confrontation, defending themselves as the young man is attempting to defend himself, if that makes any sense. You have to ask yourself, how do they deputize themselves as saying he looks like someone that was breaking in, unless it is some racial identity . Right. Again, were calling for the arrest tomorrow on this young mans birthday. Were having a virtual rally since we couldnt call a national rally, as we did with trayvon. We have a virtual rally on Facebook Live at National Action networks page, 6 00 p. M. Eastern. The mother and father and their lawyers will be with us. I want to salute joe biden, the former Vice President , Presumptive Democratic nominee. Put out a strong statement, calling for justice, saying this video made it unclear. I think he should be given credit for saying that, the only National Leader that has come out saying that. What about donald trump . Has donald trump come out condemning the shooting of a black man jogging in down the middle of the street in the afternoon . Has anybody in the administration . Has the Justice Department come out and condemned this shooting in broad daylight . Donald trump has said nothing. Despite the fact that we just heard in your earlier segment, he wants black men to vote for him or stay home. Heres a black man shot in cold blood, mr. President. You cant have laryngitis right now. Your opponent came out with no prompting. Where are you . You have something to say about everything, mr. Trump. Where are you here . Where is your Justice Department . What weve heard from donald trump, well, ill say it in the language of fifth avenue where he has trump towers, crickets. Thats what weve heard from donald trump. All right. Reverend al sharpton, keep us posted, please, on this. Thank you, rev. Thank you very, very much. Coming up, is blame china the 2020 version of build the wall . A columnist makes that case in usa today and joins us straight ahead to talk about it. Plus, Claire Mccaskill chann channelled the law about lockdown. Important news today, i got into my jeans. Breaking news. Were back in two minutes. S lets dismiss a myth about tests right now. If we tested every single american in this country at this moment, wed have to retest them an hour later, then an hour later after that, because at any moment, you could theoretically contract this virus. The notion that Everyone Needs to be tested is just simply nonsensical. As Vice President of the United States, im tested for the coronavirus on a regular basis. Everyone who is around me is tested for the coronavirus. Since i dont have the coronavirus, i thought itd be a Good Opportunity for me to be here. The White House Press secretary says its nonsensical to use testing to rule out potential exposure at the workplace. Same practice the Vice President seems to personally rely upon. Welcome back to morning joe. It is thursday, may 7th. With us, we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press, jonathan lemire. Nbc news capitol hill correspondent, and host of kasie d. C. On sunday nights, kasie hunt. And msnbc contributor mike barnicle. Good to have you this hour. Claire mccaskill will join us. But one day after suggesting the Coronavirus Task force should start winding down, President Trump is reversing course. In a series of tweets yesterday, the president said the task force will continue indefinitely, with its focus on safety and opening up our country again. We may add or subtract people as its appropriate. The task force will also be very focused on vaccines and therapeutics. Heres what the president told reporters about his quick change of plans. Can you explain the change between what you said yesterday, about winding down the task force, and now saying youre keeping it . Yeah. It is different from what you said yesterday. I guess if you think, were always winding it down. It is a question of what the end point is. I think it is a change, a little bit. I thought we could wind it down sooner. I had no idea how popular the task force is until actually yesterday, when i started talking about winding it down. I got calls from respected people, saying, i think it would be better to keep it going. Its done such a good job. The president , once again, showing in real time that he responds to headlines and isnt completely focused on this on a deep level. Also during that event yesterday at the white house, honoring nurses, President Trump contradicted, or some would say ran over, a nursepractitioner who described her access to personal protective equipment as sporadic. Are you seeing now that the supplies are what they need to be . Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it is sporadic. I talked to my colleagues around the country. Certainly, there are pockets of areas where ppe is not ideal. But this is an unprecedented time. Ive been reusing my n95 mask for a few weeks now. I just broke out a new one to come here, just in case i needed to wear it. Ppe has been sporadic. But its been manageable. We do what we have to do. Were nurses. We learn to adapt and do whatever the best thing that we can do for our patients, to get the job done and get the care provide. Thats what were going to continue to do as covid19 continues. Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people. Oh, no, i agree, mr. President. Absolutely. I heard the opposite. Yeah. I heard they are loaded up with gowns now. You know, initially, we had nothing. We had empty cupboards. We had empty shelves. We had nothing. It wasnt put there by the last administration. Ive heard that we have i just saw it yesterday, where theyre making millions of masks a month, in a factory from, you know, in that case, it was arizona. Thats great. We have other factories being built now for masks. For the most part, i mean, that was fine, but i heard we have tremendous supply to almost all places. Tremendous supply. To a point where were going to start having some of our supply go to other countries, which need it very badly. Claire mccaskill, i want to put this picture we just saw into context. We are nearing 75,000 americans dead, a massive human catastrophe that has taken over the world and this country. And the president is standing with nurses, with front line workers, with professionals who expose themselves to this virus every day, to try to find us through this. Yet, this president , standing with them in the oval office, refuses to use the power that only he has to get testing to the American People faster, to help people understand where this virus still is, where it isnt, to help americans get safer, to help these very people have an easier time trying to manage us through this crisis, as they put their lives on the line. This erefuse he refuses to do the one thing he could be doing to make americans safer going back to work. That is invoke the defense production act as it pertains to testing. Is there anyone, anyone, with any credibility that you can think of, that would have any reason why he is not doing that . I think this president has been focused on trying to do what he said would happen, make this thing go away. He all about his popularity, his poll numbers. He sees wearing a mask or people around him wearing a mask as a visual confirmation of his failure. Thats why he is putting people at risk. He sees the defense production act as a visual reality, that he has failed on testing. He sees he even said at one point, we dont want to have more testing because well have more cases and itll make us look bad. He actually remember when he kept the ship offshore because he didnt want more cases on the tally . This is someone who is focused on himself and not the welfare of the American People. And he shows it day after day in way after way. It is so frustrating. Because we have only 4 of the worlds population. Only 4 , mika. We have more than onefourth of the coronavirus cases. It is such an abject failure of leadership. Well be writing about this in the history books. Kids will be learning about this. Absolutely. About the utter failure of leadership at a time of crisis in what we thought was a country most equipped to handle a crisis like this. Mike barnicle, obviously, the president wants to move on. Weve been saying this for several days now. Hes ready to turn the page, not wearing the mask yesterday, not wearing a mask at an n95 mask plant in arizona two days ago, despite the posted rule there, as a signal. As a sign that it is time to move on. Also, hes thinkingconomic numb. In 90 minutes from now, well get a terrible unemployment number, continuing this long streak of seven weeks of record unemployment, of terrible unemployment in this short period of time. Retail Sales Numbers were down. Gdp numbers are down. Hes looking at an economic picture and an economy that is cratering. He knows it is hurting a lot of people. He also knows that it is hurting him and his chances at getting reelected. By the things he says, and the ways he expresses himself, the signals he sends, not wearing a mask, hes showing that he is ready to turn the page on something that is still going to be there even if he thinks hes turned the page. Yeah. Willie, youre absolutely right on everything you just noted. Its tragic. It is tragic that, at this moment in time, in American History, we are led by such an unstable human being. Thats who he is right now. This is a lifetime habit of Donald Trumps that we are all in this country witnessing. The idea that youre confronted with a problem, an issue you cant seem to solve, turn up the volume. Try to distract people. Try to divide the country. Stick with me. Im right. Even though in the face of long lines at food banks in this country now, because peoples children are going hungry, long lines. Ive stood in them outside of supermarkets every day, where the conversation is about who got furloughed from work. Thats the new word for fired, laidoff, for youre never coming pack. F back. Furloughed. You hear this over and over again. Jonathan lemire, the thing i wonder about, and perhaps you can enlighten up, is the stories, the increasing tonnage of stories we get about the president s ees behavior, abo conduct, his verbal conduct, denying everything we can see with our own eyes, the source of many of these stories are repeated leaks from within the white house. Which asks me to ask you, what kind of support does he have in the white house among the white house staff . Good question. The last year or two, he has had a purge of white house ranks. A lot of the, quote, adults in the room. The h. R. Mcmasters, the john kellys, theyre all out. Those who would potentially stand up to him, potentially try to change his mind, change course, be able to tell him, sir, this is wrong for the country. Theyve largely been shown the door or ignored. This is an administration that has been beset by leaks from the beginning. There are some who believe theyre doing so to help out the nation, try to course correct. They know the president responds to the media. That brings us back to the task force, mike, where it was only after a days worth of bad headlines, with police chief that doctors fauci and birx would be sidelined, cast away, that the president announced he wouldnt be disbanning the task forc force. There is a shift here, it is all about optics and imagery and the economy. On that note, willie mentioned the masks, we have new polling from the ap, that Wearing Masks at the time of this pandemic has become a cultural issue. There is a partisan divide between democrats and republicans as to who is wearing them or not. Democrats say 76 of them there. 59 for the republicans. The president is setting the tone. We have new reporting today that he told add rye sovisors he doet to wear the mask. He believes it sends the wrong message and shows a concern about health, rather than restarting the nations economy, which he believes is key to reelection chances. We know republicans have checked with the white house, should we wear masks . Is that going to upset the president . His campaign has ordered red trumpthemed masks to give out to volunteers. There is a sense the president will object to that. And we know the president has said hes afraid of how hed look in a mask. He is concerned that it would end up in a negative advertisement. Kasie hunt, republicans, any cracks, any cracks at all looking ahead to 2020 . Theres a lot of concern because a top donor to trump and the rnc has now been named the new head of the postal service. A lot of questions there. My question to you is about Republican Leaders in congress and the senate. What is your their par . What is still okay under this presidency . Are they still in lock step with donald trump . Well, so far, mika, what we heard, you know, republican senators have been back in washington this week, and there is a politico headline this morning outlining some of the things that they said, including quotes from people like tom tillis, who is facing a tough race in north carolina. Theyre essentially saying, well, the president is doing a good job. The calculation seems to be that it would be worse to anger the president under the circumstances than it would be to criticize him. That they are all going to be sunk, lost, essentially, if the president turns on them. They seem reluctant to do that. I will say that, to jonathan lemires reporting about republicans wondering if its okay if they wear masks, we have seen more republicans Wearing Masks in the senate than perhaps we did initially when the house came back and we saw a significant partisan divide on this question of Wearing Masks. I think it is important to remind everybody that you dont wear a mask to protect yourself. At least not a cloth one, that those of us are wearing in our regular lives, so we are saving the n95 masks for our health care workers. You wear a mask to protect the other people around you. It is a social contract thats emerging here in our postpandemic world. I think it is important to underscore that. Finally, mika, we played the sound bite of the president now a couple times from yesterday, where he said, i had no idea how pow popular the task force that stood out to me. We know the president reads polls. If you go to all of the polling, the polling shows overwhelmingly that Americans Trust dr. Fauci over the federal government. There was a may 5th poll, the washington post, 74 of people say they trust dr. Fauci. 71 say they trust Public Health scientists and the federal government writ large. Just 44 say they trust trump. Yeah, the task force is popular. Thats who americans are telling us they want to hear from right now, regardless of whether the president wants to move on. Look, yeah, the task force is popular because, overall, americans have been getting the truth about this virus, data about this virus, prognostication about how this virus is going to spread across the country. And a sense of what we need to do to get back to work safely and what we need to do to stay safe. Americans are frightened. Claire mccaskill, this applies also, as President Trump might be upset about polling that he is getting, internal polling from his people, Brad Parscale and others, about how he is doing in the president ial matchup. A monmouth poll is showing joe biden up two from april in the general election matchup. It seems to me, wondering what you think, americans prefer a steady hand here. Biden is coming off as steady. He has been even on this. He has been warning americans since january that this is going to be big. It is going to be real. It is going to be deadly. We need to prepare. He hasnt, at all, left that message. He never veered into a weird direction, as the president has. I mean, we have a president right now who told americans they might want to inject disinfectant. Is President Trump truly going to be surprised that he is losing in the polls . Well, not only is he losing in the polls, but republican senators, there was a brutal set of polls this week in all of the Senate Battleground states that show democrats leading in many states where republicans hold that senate seat currently. Tom tillis being one of them. I think the thing thats the problem here, mika, for the president , that hes not going to be able to get fixed, is his inconsistency has spooked the American People. They dont trust him now. The polling shows that, too. So they are not saying they want to go back to life the way it was. The president is pushing to do that. You know what . The American People are not going to do it. So we have a consumer economy. Youre not going to see a vshaped recovery because people are going to be reluctant to resume the lives they had before. Because they dont have any confidence in this president. They are unsure of their own safety. Hes not going to get this economic recovery hes pining for because of his own incompetence and lack of consistency in message. What joe biden has been is consistent. What donald trump has been is a mess. If joe biden was president during this time, in january, he would have been ramping up on every level, and less people would have died. Just ask dr. Fauci and deborah birx. They say if we had done more in january and february, we would be in a different place. Ahead on morning joe, the political ad weve been talking about all week is now going viral. Thanks, in part, to the president himself. Steve schmidt, one of the republican strategists behind that ad, joins us next. Plus, in 2016, candidate trump claimed that mexico was sending people that have lots of problems. Thats a quote, to the United States. Four years later, hes replaced the rhetoric from mexico to china. We ask that question in the column on that. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Looks like they picked the wrong getaway driver. Theyre going to be paying for this for a long time. They will, but with accident forgiveness allstate wont raise your rates just because of an accident, even if its your fault. Cut sonny. Was that good . Line the desert never lies. Isnt that what i said . No you were talking about allstate and insurance. I just. When i. Lets try again. Everybody back to one. Accident forgiveness from allstate. Click or call for a quote today. Is donating millions of products to frontline aid organizations like feeding america and direct relief. To get help or give help, join us at weareunitedforamerica. Com. Why accept it frompt an incompyour allergy pills . E else. To get help or give help, join us at flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. 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Today, more than 60,000 americans have died from a deadly virus donald trump ignored. With the economy in shambles, more than 26 million americans are out of work. The worst economy in decades. Trump bailed out wall street but not main street. This afternoon, millions of americans will apply for unemployment. With their savings run out, many are giving up hope. Millions worry a loved one wont survive covid19. Theres mourning in america. Under the leadership of donald trump, our country is weaker and sicker and poorer. And now, americans are asking, if we have another four years like this, will there even be an america . Paid for by the Lincoln Project, which is responsible for the content of this adverti advertising. The ad that might have the president s attention more than the coronavirus itself. Joining us now, one of the conservatives behind that ad, steve schmidt. Former Senior Adviser for the House Oversight and government reform committee, now a morning joe contributor, kurt bardella. Thank you both for being on. The Lincoln Project had a big fundraising day after that ad got under the president s skin. Tell us about it. He was, i guess, rage tweeting a lot about it. Good morning, mika. He started rage tweeting at about 1 00 in the morning, when he saw it after it ran. It had been viewed more than 16 million times. Its raised over 1 million. What the ad points out is that the president , who ran saying i alone can fix it and ill make America Great again, has presided over an era unlike any other in American History. He has wrought tragedtragedy. Hes brought tragedy to the country. This is a moment of profound american weakness. He has handled this with a level of ineptitude and staggering. The cost is immense human suffering in the country. We have 70,000 dead americans. That number will cruise through 100,000. We have a shattered economy. Well see unemployment rates of 30 . None of this had to happen. He was not on his game. He left the country unprotected. Hes been lying to the country. He has been talking about his television ratings. His eye is not on the ball. The reality is, we have the worst president in American History at the moment of one of the greatest crises in the countrys history. Steve, its willie. Obviously, this has gotten to the president. Hes been tweeting about it. Hes been asked about it. Hes attacked you guys by name. Hes gone through the members of the Lincoln Project and cataloged their careers. He is deeply invested in this ad and in this group and fighting back against it. If you were running a president ial campaign right now against donald trump, if you were, say, running joe bidens president ial campaign, taking that ad maybe as a snapshot, what would be your overall strategy . Clearly, based on his reaction, the president knows that hes under great pressure. He sees the polls in the battleground states. He saw the monmouth poll showing him not only losing women by 20 points right now, but in a statistical tie among men, a group he won by 12 points in 2016. What kind of a campaign would you be running against donald trump . I think that the Vice President needs to communicate to the country that its time to bring to a close this era of reality show television. At the beginning of the third decade of the 21st century, the United States of america, the most powerful nation in the world, installed into the presidency a con man and a Reality Television show host. There was a real lack of imagination amongst the American People for the capacity for there to be a great tragedy. One has come. What the Vice President , i think, needs to do is to be focused on talking to the American People, that were all in this together. He has to unify the country. Bring it back together in the spirit of abraham lincoln. He talked about malice toward none and Charity Towards all. The Vice President needs to begin to outline a plan for recovery for the United States. This is one of the most epic crises in the history of the country. This is the singularly most significant event that the country has faced since the second world war. We have a commander in chief who is incompetent, who is inept, who is selfish, who lacks all of the qualities of leadership that you would like to see in this moment in time. He has an incapacity for empathy. He has no instinct for leadership. He is a mess, as senator mccaskill pointed out. And as mika said in the last segment, he is an unsteady hand. He is an unsteady hand at a moment in crisis. All over this country, there is death that did not have to be. He told the American People that he had been assured by the chinese, no problem. 15 americans have this. Soon it will be gone. This is a disaster for the ages. He is unsteady. He is unfit. Thats what the Vice President needs to communicate every day, every hour of every day. Unsteady, unfit. Kurt bardella, one might add the word corrupt. The president is showing, once again, that he believes there should be oversight of this process, but only republican oversight. Can you tell us what happened, and could you explain to the president , who watches every day, that that does not actually add up to oversight . Well, lets be clear here, mika, republican oversight is code word for no oversight at all. Thats what weve seen from the republicans over the last three or four years. These are the same republicans, by the way, who spent every day of their lives investigating every corner of the barack obama presidency, who turned a flagrant, blind eye to oversight. Theyre not doing overnight, which is bad enough, but theyre going after people who conduct overnight. Theyre helping fire inspectors general, cover the president s tracks, as he completely ignores the barriers of oversight set place in the coronavirus fund. We dont know how money is being spent, where it is going. We dont know what the criteria is to get this money. Somehow, people who have relationships with donald trump, donors, supporters, are ending up with money thats supposed to go to people in Small Businesses. People who need paycheck protection. Instead, it is going to the people for donald trump. What were seeing from the Republican Party is this transformation away from lawlessness, transparency, accountability. Were seeing all the things that republicans profess to care about for so long completely walk away from that. The result is pure corruption. It is funny. I remember my former boss once laughably caused the barack obama the most corrupt presidency he has ever seen. Here we are now, almost a decade later, and none of these republicans who served with issa, none of the jordans, mick mulvaneys, mark new dmeadows, w are they to be found . Covering the president s tracks. Claire mcmas kcaskiccaskill, part of this is faucis testimony is blocked from the house but pay allallowed in the. What is it the president doesnt want democrats to ask the top scientist in charge of a pandemic that is ravaging the country . Yeah. You know, theyre going to have to try to frankly, there needs to be a change in the law, regardless of who is president. When there is a subpoena issued by congress, it needs to be litigated quickly through the courts, so that subpoena can, in fact, apply in a timely fashion. Right now, it takes forever to enforce a failure to appear. Thats part of the problem the house is having, trying to force oversight. He knows, the president knows, you know, ron johnson is in charge of the committee thats supposed to be doing oversight in the senate. Ron johnson wont do diddlysquat against this president. Theres so many hearings that should be going on right now. From the lack of testing. I mean, youd think this week, jon tester has a compromised family member. He asked if he could get a test before he went home, since hes been there without a lot of people in masks, in washington. Mitch mcconnell wanted to get one of his buddies confirmed. He asked if he could get a test before he went home because he was worried about protecting the compromised member of his family if, in fact, he contracted it. A sitting member of the senate was told, im sorry, theres no tests. Now would think theyd have a hearing on that, right . So it is a real problem that the republicans have completely capitulated to the chaos in the oval office. I dont think it is going to get better before november. Kurt, you have a piece that takes a look at the whole concept of blaming china, the directive from the president. What exactly do you see as some of the pitfalls there, how it is similar to the build that wall chant . You know, mika, in 2016, donald trump effectively fueled his improbable president ial victory with this arsenal of catch phrases, things like build the wall, and make America Great again. He has flipped the script and substituted build the wall for blame china. It is a deliberate effort by the republicans to use the politics of xenophobia to cover up the fact that this president has been beyond incompetent in his response to the coronavirus pandemic. Instead, try to draw on that negative energy of fear from their fox news base, to try to hope that they can duplicate what they did in 2016. Part of the point of my piece was i think that democrats and the joe biden campaign, they need to be aggressive at countering that. When you ask any republican what does donald trump, the Republican Party stand for . You get, blame china, and build the wall again. Two, three word answer. For democrats and joe biden, i dont know what the answer is right now. What i do know is campaigns are about messaging and communications. We saw a failure of that in 2016. If democrats want to avoid repeating the mistakes of 2016, theyre going to need to be much more aggressive at communication. Much more succinct at delivering what a biden presidency will represent, to offset what well see from the toxicity of the donald Trump Campaign. Steve, weve been talking about the president ial campaign this year. The senate races though are becoming almost as fascinating when you look at a place like montana, where steve bullock, the former governor there, is polling very well. You have hickenlooper doing well in the state of colorado. Arizona, mark kelly doing well against the incumbent, martha mcsally. Susan collins in a tight race in maine. Where is this headed in terms of these competitive races . Is there now a realistic chance that democrats could take the senate . I think there is a realistic chance that democrats will take the senate. I think that voters all over the country are looking and saying, we have a choice here. What do we want to have sitting in the building with the dome in washington . Who do we want in there . Do we want sheep, or do we want United States senators who are going to fight for us . What they have in a lot of instances now are sheep. People who get up every day, worried about a singular issue, is donald trump going to be mad at me, might he send a mean tweet in my direction . Theyve been derelict in their duty now for a period of years. Theyve been complicit in shaping the environment thats led to one of the great disasters in the history of the country. I do think, willie, it bears mentioning, you know, to kurts point about this, is that the president is about to launch this campaign on the basis of a conspiracy theory. This virus emerged from a laboratory in wuhan. Were going to see nonstop china bashing. The reality is, is that chinaso. It is a 5,000 year old country. Theyve had three of their best years ever since donald trump became president. We see the markings and the beginnings of what may well be a chinese century. The reason for that is Donald Trumps abdication of americas role, his attacks on our allies, his withdraw of American Leadership from the world. So we dont have a guarantee to be the preeminent power. We dont have a guarantee that the world will be run by American Values and american rules. So here we are, in the third decade of the 20th century, and what donald trump has brought to this country is a moment of weakness, unlike any of us have seen at any moment in our life. Weakness, ineptitude, and incompetence in suffering. That is his legacy. Steve schmidt and kurt bardella, thank you both. Claire mccaskill, thank you, as well. Coming up, in just the last 24 hours, the United States has added nearly 26,000 new coronavirus cases. Former fda commissioner, scott dlott le gottlieb, warned this week the u. S. Might not be able to lower transmission of the virus much more than the current rate. He joins us next on morning joe. I didnt have to shout out for help. Because you didnt have another dvt. Not today. One blood clot puts you at risk of having another, so we chose xarelto®, to help keep you protected. Xarelto®, is proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. Almost 98 of people did not have another dvt or pe. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of blood clots. While taking, a spinal injection increases the risk of blood clots, which may cause paralysis the inability to move. You may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop. Xarelto® can cause serious and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. Do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. Before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. Help protect yourself from another dvt or pe. Ask your doctor about xarelto®. To learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto. Com. To lethat Liberty Mutual customizes your insurance,p, i just love hitting the open road and telling people so you only pay for what you need [squawks] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Why accept it frompt an incompyour allergy pills . E else. Flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. Nothing lasts longer. Flonase sensimist. 24 hour nondrowsy allergy relief jioining us now, former fda commissioner dr. Scott gottlieb. Thank you for being on the show this morning. Want to start big picture, as were looking at the death toll headed towards 75,000, and the numbers were hearing from analysis, perhaps not going down as quickly as we had hoped. What is the safest, most effective conditions under which to reopen the country, and what would the timeline on that be . Look, the safest condition to reopen the country would be after we see sustained declines in new cases. We havent seen that. Weve sort of hit a plateau at around 30,000 cases a day and 2,000 deaths a day. It bounces around. If you look at the trend line, really, for the last month, its been around that level. I think many of us felt that the mitigation would work to bring down the number of cases. You start seeing sustained declines in new cases. The mitigation worked to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed. Certainly, mitigated the worstcase scenarios that we were projecting at the outset. It hasnt brought down the number of new daily cases to the levels we thought. So youd want to see cases on a downward trajectory around the country. You see cases going up in many parts of the country. Then you want to make sure you have the resources in place. You want to make sure the hospitals have extra capacity, that you have testing in place, that you have resources to do good track and trace of people who are infected, and be able to isolate them. We dont have all those pieces in place. We are reopening again some risk. We have to weigh that against the cost of remaining shut, too. Public Health Consequences on the other side of this. For example, data came out just yesterday showing that visits for chemotheory are down 20 , meaning Cancer Patients are literally skipping treatments. There are a lot of Public Health costs on both sides of this. Thats why this is so hard. There are many that believe effective, uniformed testing would really help give a road map back out to reopening. In terms of getting Rapid Testing to the american public, is there anything in terms of managing the production of the testing that isnt being done, that could be done to make it faster and more effective, getting to the American People . Right. What we really need is testing innovation. What we need is more choice of care testing and things like what we call antegen tests. Its like when the doctor swabs you, and the stick has antibodies, and it can give a result in the doctors office. We have it for strep and flu but not yet for the coronavirus. Theres no reason we cant have it. Im sure it is under development. These things needed to be put into development in january or february. We got a late start on this, so the products probably arent going to hit the market until, you know, later month into june. Right now, were dependent on pcrbased testing, direct detection of the virus. The process isnt as efficient in getting a result in the doctors office. What could we be doing . Make sure there is even distribution of the Testing Capacity. Right now, some states have more, some states have less. We also need to make sure there are sites people can go to get tested. It is not just a question of do we have the capacity to run the tests. Right now, we dont have a lot of places offering the tests. Distribution of the testing sites isnt uniform around the country. It isnt always where the highest risk is. We need to also move these things, for example, to places of employment, where you have employees working at highrisk settings like shop stores, processing plants, warehouses where they can socially distance and be close together. We need to move testing into the job sites to protect those employees. Dr. Gottlieb, thank you so much for being with us. Yes. It is such a great honor for us. Would love for you to clarify a few things for our audience. I know we all read throughout the day news articles. It seems about this, trying to figure out whats going to happen next. It seems every day i read a different story saying that antibodies provide immunity, and the next day, antibodies do not provide immunity. I saw a tweet a couple days ago where you cited a study that suggestiaugussuggests that perhs do. Where are we right now and i know this could change in a week, two weeks but based on your understanding of everything youve seen, if youd get the coronavirus, if you have a sufficient number of antibodies, are you immune for a period of time . I think we should assume that this virus is going to behave like every other virus in sort of it class, and like other coronaviruses. After you get the virus, this virus is highly immunogenic, meaning you have a high response, most people do, and the antibodies will be protective for a length of time. The immunity might be six months, might be a year. Also the depth of the immunity is unknown. Some people might have immunity but get reinfested but have a more minor illness. For most people, you should develop immunity and itll last a reasonable amount of time. The immune system is one of the most variable things in person to person. Everyones immune system reacts differently, and theyll mount a different immune response. For example, there was a study out of china showing a this lot young people, when they get the virus, they have lower levels of immunity than older people. Does it mean theyre not immune or theyre not mounting as many circulating antibodies that are measure . We dont know. It is probably the case theyre immune, but theyre just not mounting as vigorous of a response thats measurable to us. Lets talk about the fall and the winter, flu season. There has been some debate, not much, some debate on whether the coronavirus will come back during the fall and the winter, during the flu season. First, first part of this question is, do you believe, are you fairly certain, as is dr. Fauci, that we will see a reemergence of the coronavirus, covid19, in the fall, winter, in the flu season . And second question is, if that is the case, what do we need to be doing right now in a race against time to prepare as a nation . Yeah, look, i think it is highly likely this does come back in the fall. Im worried about this colliding with the flu season. You have all that influenzalike illness con foundi iconfounding to find covid19. As we go into the summer with a slow burn of infections, assuming there is not a seasonable effect, that the cases dont fall out in july and august in a measurable way because of the summer and they may but even if they do, were likely to come back in the fall and have this be a threat in the fall. The threat of largeout bre out and maybe another epidemic. In the fall, well hopefully have more than one treatment that can mitigate the illness in patients at risk for the most serious consequences. Well probably have more than one vaccine in sufficient quantities that you can deploy it in a city where there might be an outbreak. Use it to fence in the outbreak and also experimentally, to learn if it is safe and effective for the general population. We need much better testing, tracking and tracing. If were going to prevent another large epidemic from happening, the biggest risk we face right now probably isnt going to be june, july, and august. Itll be september, october, november. Well hopefully get through the summer. If we open against the backdrop of a lot of spread, the spread doesnt really go down, maybe goes up a little, then we head to the fall with a lot of virus in the background, when people go back to College Campuses, back to school, back to work, they let their guard down a little bit, thats the real risk when you can see a reignition of the epidemic. The final point ill make is, some of us long felt this would settle into a seasonal component, where it would become more of a seasonal virus, like a lot of other coronaviruses do and like the flu does. If you look at whats happening in the Southern Hemisphere as they enter their winter, youre seeing countries down there start to enter into what is looking like an epidemic. If you look at the data, for example, out of brazil. You talked about a toolbox that wed have ready going into the fall. Weve heard of advances on a vaccine. Oxford. Gilead had a drug that may reduce the length of the infection. We had israel announcing a few days ago some positive advancements in antibody testing. Where are we right now in developing that toolbox . I know its the early stages, but are there some of these developments that give you hope . Well, if you look at what could be available for the fall, and thats what im focused on because theres a lot of stuff in development. More than 100 drugs in development and vaccines. What could be available, remdesivir could be available in larger quantities in the fall. It looks active. It is not a home run, but it looks like it to be effective, especially used early in the disease, especially with higherrisk people, mothose mor likely to have a bad outcome. Drugs that can replicate the antibodies your body produces in response to the virus. There are Main Companies working on this. These could be available for the fall. Probably a little later in the fall than earlier, but there are already a number of these in clinical development. That was the drug from israel. They developed one, too. Finally, vaccines. There is multiple u. S. Manufacturers, and were going to be dependent on u. S. Manufacturers. Every country is going to look to supply their own population before they ship outside their borders. Theres a number of large u. S. Manufacturers, pfizer, which im involved with. Im on the board of. They entered a robust phase one and phase two study a day ago. Merck is involved. J j has an advanced program. Moderna is entering phase two studies. Another Biotech Company in the u. S. There are a number of Companies Working on this that are advanced into phase one studies. A number of academic number of c groups. Theres a possibility we will have multiple vaccine manufacturers that could have available millions of doses on hand in the fall. Probably not tens of millions, but millions that could be used in the setting of an outbreak in a city. So we do have opportunities going into the fall, but, you know, against that backdrop we face the risk that theres going to be a much larger spread because we now have a base of spread. It is probably not going to go down, unless it is a heavy seasonal component in july and august, really do have an impact on spread here as you get into the hot, humid months. Unless we see that and we dont know that were going to we probably will be heading into the fall with a lot of background infection. Remember, for every case we are diagnosing and we are diagnosing about 30,000 a day theres probably 10 to 20 infections. We are probably only diagnosing 1 in 10 to 1 in 30 infections. Those 30,000 are probably really 300,000 infections a day. Doctor, it is willie geist. It is great to have you on this morning, listening to your clear concerns about the fall. You said it a number of times this morning, emphasizing the return of this disease or the inflaming of this disease in the fall. What is a School Superintendent going to do with that information . What does a School Principal do with that information . What do parents do with that information . Because if there is no vaccine, and there wont be, of course, by the fall, there are some treatments that perhaps provide some help once you have contracted the disease, social distancing you recommend through the summer. How do you have a classroom in september if most experts and you are obviously not alone in this believe it will come back in the fall, how do you have a classroom with 30 kids sitting side by side . How is that even on the board as a possibility . Well, you saw an announcement from ohio yesterday, thinking about going to sort of staggered days. I think theres two decisions we are going to have to make here. One is the decision we are making right now about how to reopen the economy, restart some activity. Thats going to take us, you know, may, june, july, into august, and i think come august we will have to make another decision, what we do about the fall. Residential College Campuses back to school, people going back to work in more earnest, are we going to be able to do that . Think it will depend on what the background infection rate is. If we have a low infection rate coming out of august and it dissipates in july and august, we can come back in september with better testing in place, better track and tracing in place, we probably can go forward and hopefully manage the threat as we go. If we head into september and we still have a lot of virus circulating around the country, it is going to be a hard decision to then reopen settings that we know are going to be points of transmission. So we really have two very Big Decisions to make. The one were making right now, how do we reopen, and then in august how do we reopen for the fall when we want to get back to business in earnest. I will tell you, talking to a lot of Corporate Leaders right now, theyre really planning through 2020 to have policies in place for more work at home, to reduce corporate travel, to not hold big events. So theyre thinking about this through the year, but i think for a lot of people you are going to have to think about it in two stages. One is the summer and another will be the fall, because there are two very different sets of risks. And so much of this is dependent, as you say, on testing, about knowing who has it. Should we have a National Testing program . What would it look like exactly . Look, i think theres things we could be doing on a National Level to facilitate more access to testing. Certainly thinking about testing supplies, the testing supply chain, a lot is the Global Supply chain where states and individual hospitals and providers dont have the ability to try to expand access to a Global Supply chain for things like reagents that go into testing or even things as simple as the cotton swabs, the little plastic cups that you put the sample into. We also need guidance from the federal government on how communities and Community Sites can do testing. So, for example, if doctors want to do testing in their offices and then they have a positive result and that positive result under cdc guidance means they have to close their office and quarantine their staff and do a deep cleaning, doctors arent going to do testing in their medical practices. Thats going to reduce the ability of people to go get tested because then they have to go to special sites for it. So the cdc needs to put out guidance on how you can do testing in a communitybased primary care Office Without having to incur onerous consequences for turning over a positive case. The government could put out guidance on how to do testing at the point of employment. There are things the federal government could be doing to facilitate more access to testing in the states and community. Those are the kind of things we should be thinking about. Thats going to ultimately help bring more testing to the market, but the reality is that the private sector is moving quickly. We got a late start. If we started doing certain things in january in terms of bringing on Clinical Labs and the commercial labs and some of the new technology back in january, we would have had it for march. We started in march, so were going to have it in may and june. But i think by the end of this month we will have significant Testing Capacity in the market. Right now we are doing about 1. 5 million tests a week. Thats a lot. I think by the end of the month we might be closer to 3 million after some approvals that should happen, happen this month. Then heading into the fall i think we will be in the millions of tests that we can run on a weekly basis. Were not going to really be talking about capacity. Finally, dr. Gottlieb, Mike Barnacle has the last question for you. Mike. Dr. Gottlieb, after your first answer to willie geist, what are we looking at in terms of the fall, parents being unable to go to work right now with little children, daycare, kindergarten, 1st through 7th grades, are they going to be able to go back to School Safely . Well, look, the data we have right now is that the young kids really arent being affected in the high numbers that you see Older Americans and even middle aged americans affected. We see now some reports of postviral syndromes that look very concerning, sort of an autoimmune type of phenomenon happening in a certain number of kids. It is not clear though if it is a small number with a big denominator or a small number on a small denominator. My guess is a lot of kids are getting infected with coronavirus and not becoming ill with it, thats the good news. Theres a study under way with the nih right now to determine what percentage of kids are actually getting this. The reason you close schools in the setting of an epidemic isnt just to protect the children, it is because we know in the setting of an epidemic to close the school in the context of flu reduces the scope of an epidemic because kids end up become vectors of the disease and bringing it into the community. We dont know if it is true of coronavirus, so hopefully we will have more data to inform that. That will partially determine how quick you are to close schools in the setting of an outbreak in a local community. To your original point where you were going, if the schools are not open that will be a very big economic impediment because the one thing you can do to get people back to work is open the schools because a lot of parents cant go back to work until the kids go back to school. Former fda commissioner dr. Scott gottlieb. Thank you very much for being on the show this morning. Still ahead, Governor Andrew Cuomo said yesterday that most new covid19 hospitalizations in new york state are from people who were staying home and not venturing outside much. Well talk about that concerning development with a leading expert on Public Health. In about half an hour we will learn how many more americans applied for Unemployment Benefits last week. We will bring you the number when it crosses. You are watching morning joe. Were back in two minutes. Back. You wouldnt accept an incomplete job from anyone else. So why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms which most pills dont. Get allinone allergy relief for 24 hours, with flonase. That family doesnt have to take out of their house. It relieves stress off of me to let me know im doing something good for the community, not just papa johns. Weve delivered millions and millions and tens of millions of masks all over, so you dont hear about that anymore. You dont hear about hospital beds. When i first started, everyone was, oh, hospital beds, hospital beds. I havent heard about testing. I havent heard about testing being a problem. You dont hear about ventilators. You dont hear about masks and you shouldnt be hearing about testing. So ppe has been sporadic but it has been manageable and we do what we have to do. It is nurses. Sporadic for you but not sporadic for a lot of other people. Oh, no. I agree, mr. President. Because i have heard the opposite. A look at what the president does and does not want to hear. Good morning. Welcome to morning joe. It is thursday, may 7th. Along with joe who is he . What planet is he from . He has to correct a nurse. He has a nurse in the white house, he corrects a nurse. It has been sporadic. He saw the New York Post headlines, people wearing garbage bags. But he did it to send a specific message. Nurses having to wear garbage pgas, the New York Post showing, because, yes, mr. President , it was sporadic. But your performance has been sporadic from the beginning. I dont know if you remember, i havent said it yet on the show, but on february 22ndnd you said it was just one person coming in from china. I remember that. No, he said that. I dont like to repeat myself, so im sure i have not said it. But talk about sporadic, saying that, talking about this big ban. I dont know if you knew this. 430,000 people came in from china to the United States from the beginning of this pandemic. 40,000 what . Even after his toothless ban. Oh, wow. Like this isnt leadership at all. Hes sporadic to attack a nurse for telling the truth, that everybody on the planet knows is the truth. Willie, that just seems to be par for the course. It does. It has gotten better with ppe in places like new york city, but think of the context of that, where you had a nurse who works at a public clinic in new orleans, the head of a Nurse Organization who on National Nurses day making an obvious point about ppe and the shortages there have been across the country. Wow. And the president barks at her after she has just told the story of watching a 4dayold patient die and talk about the horrors of being in these icus and ers and treating these patients. Again, it is the totally missing empathy gene, number one. Number two, the lack of facts and the desire to spin this story, to spin his way out of what has been a disastrous response. Yes. Well, it just looks absolutely terrible. Well said. It is like in the david muirer interview where he talks about how we will be facing Great Depressionstyle Economic Hardship and americans are going to be in pain, and he asks the president how bad is it going to be, and donald trump says, well, it is what it is, but, you know, democrats arent even blaming again, he doesnt even think about other people being hurt. He thinks about how a Great Depression is going to impact him personally. No empathy whatsoever. It is just like i mean what i think one of the most incredible moments showing how little empathy this president has again, a guy who said it is one person coming in from china on february 22nd and then it was 15 people and it would be gone and what a great job he was doing. Then he starts talking about disinfectants. This is a guy thats done such a terrible job, you would think that he would learn from it and become empathetic. Remember when Peter Alexander asked, what do you say to americans that was a softball. That was here is your chance to share your feelings with the American People. What do you say to americans who are scared. A chance to bond with people and getting through together. What did he say . He started screaming at hem, yelling at him, saying, youre fake news, you are terrible, you are this, you are that. Oo. All of this because he was asked to empathize with americans who are hurting, who are suffering and dying. You cant brand death differently. We saw it again in that clip. Along with joe, willie and me we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press jonathan lemire. Nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie dc on sudden nights on msnbc, kasie hunt. Good to have you all on board. One day after suggesting that the White House Coronavirus task force should start winding down, President Trump is now reversing course. Hmm. In a series of tweets yesterday, the president said, the task force will continue on indefinitely and its focus on safety and opening up our country again. It may add or subtract people to it as appropriate. The task force will also be very focused on vaccines and therapeutics. Here is what the president told reporters about his change of plans. Reporter could you explain the change between what you said yesterday about wind indoing doe task force and now . It is different from what you said yesterday. I guess if you think we are always winding it down, but it is a question of what the end point is. But i think it is a change a little bit. I thought we could wind it down sooner, but i had no idea how popular the task force is until actually yesterday. When i started talking about winding it down, i would get calls from very respected people saying, i think it would be better to keep it going, it has done such a good job. Jonathan lemire, i mean it is does he know that when you talk about shutting down a Task Force One day and 24 hours later you say people called him, that hes thinking and flying off the seat of his pants . Does he know hes exposing himself by the day as to not being fully connected with the gravity of this problem . Is anyone helping him . This would come as a great surprise, guys, but the president reacts to Media Coverage and to outside forces when it comes to decisions. Thats what we thats what we saw here. He there was no coordinated effort per se but the white house had discussions in the last few weeks about beginning to wind down the task force as it was looking to pivot more towards the economy, looking towards moving to reopening parts of the nation and wanting to deemphasize certainly publicly some of the Health Crisis response. You know, weve seen the briefings go away, although a lot of that, of course, was because the president s advisers realized they were doing damage to him politically, but it was an effort to not make dr. Fauci and dr. Birx the public faces of this anymore, but, instead, an attempt to change the conversation to be more about the nation reopening and its economy. But when the Vice President said the other day in a meeting that the task force was going to be started to wind down by the end of may or early june and the president himself reiterated that on his trip to arizona, there was some real blowback from Business Leaders, Congressional Republicans that the president does listen to from time to time, calling the white house late at night, but also the media also the Media Coverage. It was a major story yesterday, on this show and others. We know the president watches. He responds to that. So he has now decided to bring it back, but a note of caution. The tenor here is still going to change. The briefings are not expected to return. We had the White House Press secretary yesterday. We havent seen dr. Fauci or dr. Birx from the podium at the white house in some time now. They are still going to be part of this, but the president and his team want them to be less visible for the public. They want the focus now, even as cases are going up across the country, even as cases outside new york continue to rise, they want the focus to be the nation trying to get back to work, trying to reopen, thinking that is more politically advantageous for the president. Kasie, as jonathan says, if you listened to the president s full comments yesterday he said, fine, i will keep the task force around but he was clear it is going to shift its focus to reopening the economy, not so much mitigating the pandemic which is still with us and growing, which is important to point out. He wants to look at opening the economy. That instinct will be fed at 8 30 this morning eastern time when we get our latest unemployment numbers. It has become a dreaded time of the week every thursday. We will get the month of aprils unemployment numbers. We got retail Sales Numbers yesterday that were bad. All of this will add to the pressure that the president feels to reopen the economy and to insist that governors help them do that. Well, willie, it seems like he declared himself a war time president against this virus and now he is trying to declare victory and go home, but the facts that americans across the country are living out every day dont bear that out yet. You know, i dont know how many times weve been over this, but the reality still remains that if you want to pivot to the, you know, trying to clean up the economic damage, you know, there are so many questions still about where we are on testing. I mean is the president s promise from months ago that if you want a test you can get a test true . Not from what i am hearing when i talk to people across the country and others on capitol hill. You talk to members of congress, they are still saying many of their constituents cannot get tests, and if they cant get tests, we cant find the cases so people will not feel safe going out. That fundamental reality is still the case. Obviously the economic pain of this is so dramatic and intense no one is disputing that at all, but, again, for the reopening to actually work and, you know, im hearing this from members of congress, frankly, on both sides of the aisle. There is an acknowledgement that we are just not where we need to be to start solving that problem. People dont have faith yet that it is safe to do it. Still ahead on morning joe, could the nation grow numb to coronavirus like it has to gun violence . With thousands of deaths a day, a new column suggests americans may become resigned to mass casualties, not unlike the School Shootings we so often see. You are watching morning joe. We will be right back. We live in uncertain times. However, there is one thing you can be certain of. The men and women of the United States postal service. Were here to deliver cards and packages from loved ones and also deliver the peace of mind of knowing that essentials like prescriptions are on their way. Every day, all across america, we deliver for you. And we always will. Confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. Theyre all possible with a cfp® professional. Find yours at letsmakeaplan. Org. That Liberty Mutualle customizes your insurance, i just love hitting the open road and telling people so you only pay for what you need [squawks] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Ior anything i want to buy isk going to be on rakuten. Rakuten is easy to use, free to sign up and its in over 3,000 stores. I buy a lot of makeup. Shampoo, conditioner. Books, food. Travel. Shoes. 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Trump would receive 41 , down three. Bidens support includes 56 of women and a 20point lead over President Trump who sits at 36 among that demographic. Among men, trump is up two points, 46 to 44 . So, willie, weve been seeing over the past several years rolling numbers that have surprised political analysts. First, women, suburban women breaking away from donald trump quickly in 2017. A year ago we started seeing polls showing that working class women also breaking against donald trump, making thi donald trump, making thi k comes in the door. Theyre the ones kind of thinking day in and day out about what does this mean for my family. Thats not to say obviously that men arent playing that role. Of course they are. But when you ask broad swaths of the public, a lot of women will say, look, this is falling on me. I am really worried about what is going on here, and i think that contributes and plays a role in setting up a dynamic that has already existed and really underscoring it and, if anything, making it worse for President Trump. Coming up on morning joe, were just a few minutes away from a new jobs report. What the numbers say about a looming recession. And the economic fallout is the cover story of time magazines new issue entitled the great reckoning. More americans are unemployed now than at any other time since the Great Depression. That is next on morning joe. How about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Nnnnono sleep this amazing . Thats a zzzquil pure zzzs sleep. Our gummies contain a unique botanical blend, while an optimal melatonin level means no nextday grogginess. Zzzquil pure zzzs. Naturally superior sleep. Why accept it frompt an incompyour allergy pills . E else. Flonase sensimist. Nothing stronger. Nothing gentler. Nothing lasts longer. Flonase sensimist. 24 hour nondrowsy allergy relief being prepared and overcoming challenges. Usaa has been standing with them for nearly a hundred years. And well be here to serve you for a hundred more. This is a surprise. Overwhelmingly the people were at home. 66 of the people were at home, which is shocking to us. We thought maybe they were taking Public Transportation, and weve taken special precautions on Public Transportation, but, actually, no, because these people were literally at home. New york Governor Andrew Cuomo yesterday with that potentially concerning development. The preliminary data from 100 new York Hospitals involving about 1,000 patients shows 66 of new admissions were from people who had largely been sheltering at home. Meanwhile, the Trump Administration has reportedly shelved a set of detailed plans created by this countrys top disease investigators, meant to give stepbystep instructions to local officials deciding when and how to reopen such places as mass transit, restaurants and daycare centers. The Associated Press reports this morning the 17page cdc report entitled guidance for implementing the opening up america again framework was researched with and written to help faith leaders, Business Owners, educators and state and local officials as they look to reopen. The ap reports the plan was supposed to be published last friday before it was shelved. The white house has yet to comment on the report. Many are concerned that the white house has practiced negligence in dealing with this pandemic and has been negligent as it pertains to trying to reopen the country and prevent deaths. Joining us now emergency physician and Public Health professor at George Washington university, dr. Lena nguyen. She previously served at baltimores health commissioner. Also with us, morning joe chief medical correspondent dr. Dave campbell. Thanks to you both for okay. Dr. Nguyen, i want to start with you about the concerning information out of new york that a number of cases of coronavirus are being found in people who were sheltering at home. I know it is preliminary information and it is just 1,000 people, but it is pretty significant anecdotal from one state. My question is, what questions does that raise perhaps about takeout or groceries or how could it be that someone gets this if theyre sheltering at home and staying away from all other people . Well, all we know about these individuals, mika, is that they were at home, but that doesnt mean that they didnt have exposure. I mean thats how the virus is transmitted from person to person. I would actually want to know who else is living at home with them because thats the most likely way that these individuals contracted covid19, from a household member. Maybe somebody who lives at home with them does take Public Transportation every day. Maybe somebody who lives with them is one of these essential workers. I think that really underscores what it is that were doing when we socially distance from others. Were not just protecting ourselves, we are protecting the other people around us, specifically our loved ones who may be in those most vulnerable categories. I think as states are reopening, we should keep that in mind, that we are protecting ourselves but also those who can stay socially distanced should continue to do so because, frankly, social distancing is a privilege that not everyone has or certainly that their loved ones may have either. Dr. Dave campbell, last hour we spoke with former fda commissioner Scott Gottlieb who addressed the health risks of opening up parts of the country versus continuing to shelter in place. Take a listen. You would want to see cases on a downward trajectory around the country, you see cases going up in many parts of the country. And then you want to make sure you have the resources in place. You want to make sure the hospitals have extra capacity, that you have testing in place, that you have resources to do good track and trace of people that are infected and be able to isolate them. We dont have all of those pieces in place, so we are reopening against some risk. But we have to weigh it against the cost of remaining shut too and there are Public Health consequences on the other side of this. For example, data came out yesterday showing visits for chemotherapy are down almost 20 , meaning Cancer Patients are literally skipping treatments. Another thing dr. Gottlieb said, dr. Dave, is we just dont have testing is not where it needs to be. Had we started in january it would have been by now, but it is not and it is going to be a few more months. Youre looking at elective surgeries. We were talking there about Cancer Treatments, but how do elective surgeries begin again with still so much uncertainty . The American College of surgeons and anesthesia group, the hospital groups and nursing groups have come out with a statement described as a joint statement for how to do that. It is very complex, but it starts with a phased approach, and it also starts with following the cdc guidelines for waiting until there is a sustained decrease in cases, new cases for 14 days. That is not necessarily happening everywhere, but even with that, patients are concerned about contracting the illness if they go to a hospital. Physicians and nurses in the operating room are concerned both for their own health and the safety of the employees around them. So this is going to be a slow startandstop process as state by state we try to follow respectable, respected and thoughtful guidelines, but we also recognize that there will be the need to go very slowly, particularly with the most vulnerable patients, the older patients with Underlying Health illnesses that perhaps need Something Like a hip replacement, but in so doing would be best served by going to a nursing facility for a few days after the hospital. Nursing facilities are still the hot spots in the United States. So it is a complex issue that we are trying to deal with day by day and getting advice from the leading experts and using common sense also, mika. Willie. Dr. Nguyen, you were talking about the dangers of reopening the economy. As you said, it looks like in some ways we have given up on containment and said, lets try an experiment where we slowly open phases of our economy. As you watch this play out, what do you think this summer looks like . As we were discussing with dr. Gottlieb a few minutes ago, what does the fall look like as administrators in august and september begin to think about whether or not they should open their schools . Well, we keep talking about this second wave thats going to come in the fall, and i do think thats going to happen. We will see, as dr. Gottlieb said, theres the rise of flu season happens at the same time as the rise in covid19. But i actually think that second wave is going to happen much sooner as states are reopening. We know it is going to happen because the only thing thats keeping the virus in check right now is social distancing. In the absence of a cure, in the ab sense of a vaccine, social distancing is what is keeping the virus from transmitting from person to person. So the moment those restrictions are lifted, we are going to see surges all across the country. Were not going to see it immediately because there is a lag of time, but i would anticipate that in a few weeks, in a month or two we will see outbreaks happening all across the country that will look like new york city just being played out in different communities, including in smaller communities that have limited hospital capacity. I just think in this case, this is such a tragedy. Back in february and march we could have said, well, maybe it was too late to prevent what was happening in new york because we didnt know what to do, we didnt have the capabilities in place. But this time we know what should be done. We had a chance to build the testing, the tracing, the treatment capacities, and we squandered that opportunity. Now we are reopening too soon, knowing the consequences, and the consequence in this case is preventable deaths. I think in the meantime policymakers should prepare for that surge. At least make sure that we have the personal protective equipment, the ventilators that are needed so that we are not putting Health Care Providers at risk and patients at risk anymore. But we should prepare for that surge and do our part to continue to stay at home for those who can. Dave, President Trump is pushing for schools to reopen soon, but without teachers without teachers in the highrisk age group of over 60. Take a listen to this. Reporter mr. President , you say open and have people or teachers in risky age groups not go in or be more careful . I would like to see schools open wherever possible, which i think is in much of the country, most of the country. No, i would say that until everything is perfect, i think that the teachers that are a certain age perhaps you say over 60, especially if they have a problem with heart or diabetes or any one of a number of things, i think that they should not be Teaching School for a while and everybody would understand that fully. That we understand. So everybody know most people who listen to doctors know that you dont have to be over 60, dr. Dave, to have an underlying condition that might make you vulnerable to dying from the coronavirus and that young people have been stricken, people in their 30s, people in their 40s have lost their lives to the coronavirus. So the president now is talking about teachers over 60 perhaps not coming to work. If were looking ahead to as dr. Gottlieb pointed out september, october, november, to getting out of sort of the hot zone of this virus, as we get testing together and all of the things that we should have had together early on that we dont yet, if we are looking at september, october, november, without testing and all of these things that we need, responsible institutions, will they make the decision to reopen . Because i would think colleges, universities, responsible institutions that look at science to guide them, they will not be able to reopen. No, theres an alternative, and it has been stated over and over again, massive testing, Quick Response time in the test results, using the combination of antibody tests and the viral pcr tests, prompt information will allow those that are over 60 that are teachers, that have children to know at least within a confined, defined period of time whether or not they have the virus. And if thats the case, at least for a few days they may be relatively safe to reengage. Massive testing is still and has been stated as the answer, and i dont see anyway around it. You mentioned returning back in september and october and november without testing. I think thats a nonstarter, mika. Yeah. Doctors lena nguyen and dr. Dave campbell. Thank you both for being on this morning. See you soon. And the coronavirus forced the closure of the Supreme Courts building, but not the court. So on monday the court began two weeks of oral arguments by teleconference. It is a case on what kind of robocalls can be made to cellphones, if any. It is a case with implications for the political season. The oral arguments were marked by another first for the court. What the fcc has said is that when the subject matter of the call ranges with topics, then the call is transformed and it is whats been allowed and it is no longer yes, that was the sound of the toilet flushing. No one on the call commented but folks on twitter sure noticed. Up next, the final report on unemployment claims ahead of what is expected to be horrifying revealed tomorrow on the number of jobs lost during this pandemic. We are back in just a moment. I just love hitting the open road and telling people that Liberty Mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need [squawks] only pay for what you need. Know to frontline aid organizations like feeding america and direct relief. To get help or give help, join us at weareunitedforamerica. Com. 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Nfo on options trading, thats why Td Ameritrade designed a firstofitskind, personalized education center. Their awardwinning content is tailored to fit your investing goals and interests. And it learns with you, so as you become smarter, so do its recommendations. So its like my streaming service. Well except now, youre binge learning. For a limited time, get up to 800 when you open and fund an account. Call 8663009417 or visit tdameritrade. Com learn. Back with breaking news from the labor department. The federal government says another 3. 2 million americans filed unemployment claims last week. Thats more than 33 million americans making those claims over just the last seven weeks. Joining us now former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst steve rat any. Brown University Economist john friedman. He recently partnered with the bill and Melinda Gates foundation to create an interactive map of the realtime Economic Impact of covid19, and we will get to that in a moment. Steve, i want to begin with you on these latest numbers. Nearly 3. 2 million unemployment claims. It is a measure perhaps of how bad this crisis is that that is viewed as better than last week when we had 3. 8 million claims. Going back into march, 6. 9 million claims were made on march 28th. 6. 6 million the week after, 5. 2 million after that, 4. 4 million, 3. 8 million and now nearly 3. 2 million claims. As i said, steve, that brings us to more than 33 million americans in the last seven weeks. Thats right, willie. The fact that the number was a bit down this week from last week and from the previous week does not mean things are great or necessarily getting better. Right. More people are filing, 3 million to be precise, for unemployment insurance. What is important to note is that there are now 22someodd Million People still receiving unemployment insurance. Thats about 13 or 14 of the labor force. So it gives us an indication of the kind of unemployment numbers and jobs numbers that were going to see from the bureau of labor statistics tomorrow. Yes. Steve, i wanted to ask you about the april jobless number that will come out tomorrow. You have some charts on that. I know your expectations, the president of the Minneapolis Federal reserve was on the today show a short time ago saying the number may be 16 to 17 unemployment in this country, but he believes that will understate how high the number really is. And i think thats all correct. Before we get to that, there was a third unemployment number that came out this week, the adp, the Payroll Company that many of you get your payroll checks from. It does its own payroll surveys each month. They reported yesterday. What was particularly interesting in their numbers were some of the breakdowns. What theyve shown us is where the Unemployed People are coming from. Not surprisingly, a huge percentage of them are coming from the leisure and Hospitality Services and, in fact, when you look at the top bar there you see that literally 51 51 of all of the people who work in the leisure, hospitality, travel, hotels, airlines, think of all of the different parts of it, have lost their jobs since this began. Construction was the second most hardhit area, 33 . What is worth noting on this chart is if you go to the bottom, you can see that, in fact, when you get to finance and you get business and professional services those are your lawyers, your accountants, architects, people like that the job losses have been quite minimal. The important point here to take away is that people in Leisure Hospitality tend to be very lowpaid workers. Theyre your fast food workers, your hotel housekeepers, people like that, people at the bottom in professional services are much more highly paid. Theres clearly an income inequality aspect of the Unemployment Crisis as well. If you turn to the next chart, you can see when you cut the data across size of business, you see another interesting thing, which is that small and mediumsized businesses have also taken the biggest hit. They have lost 21. 5 in the case of Small Businesses, thats 20 to 50 people roughly. 17 for medium size businesses. But then you drop down to the Largest Companies and only and i put only in quotes, of course, 13 of the workers have lost their jobs. So it is Small Business and people at the lower end of the income scale who seem to be suffering the most. Now, as for tomorrows numbers, willie, as you previewed, when you put the various pieces of data we have to go it looks like a mid digit unemployment rate. Economists are having a particularly tough time forecasting this given what has been going on. Im showing a range from Goldman Sachs down at 14, barclays up at 18. 5 and economists further apart at that. Somewhere in the mid teen range is what were likely to see, and that is obviously the highest weve had since the Great Depression. It never really got above 10 during the great financial crisis, and so when you look at things like Donald Trumps poll numbers and his concern about getting americans back to work, you can see that he is worried about the effect of this Economic Contraction on his reelection prospects. Yes, that number will be staggering tomorrow. John friedman. I mentioned in your introduction you have this tracker, the opportunity insights economic tracker that you have partnered with the bill and Melinda Gates foundation and harvard university, where you can look geographically at what part of the country is being hit hardest. What do you find in your data . Well, what were seeing is that the economy is evolving at an incredibly fast rate right now. For instance, even in the last three, four weeks since the surveys were done for the jobs numbers that will come out tomorrow, the stimulus checks have been released and so Consumer Spending was down 30 a few weeks ago. Now it is only down 20 , so thats not great but we can see at least it is starting to come back. But theres tremendous differences across the country. In some places like washington, d. C. Spending is down 50 still without much recovery at all. So were seeing there was one thing we learned in this crisis, it is that we cant afford to fall behind the information curve. We need the most uptodate information to make decisions and thats what were trying to provide on the economic side here. John and steve, if i could ask you both, if you could be descriptive and just in terms of your own prognostications, some of them is uncharted territory so weve never experienced it, but what you think the next six months next six months to a year looks like for americans, if you could describe the numbers that were seeing here and where theyre headed . John, you go first. Steve, follow up. Sure. Well, one thing that were seeing that is very disturbing, it is not just that unemployment is up and jobs are down, job postings are way down as well. Thats really concerning because if americans are going to get back to work, theyre going to need jobs to go back into. If businesses are not posting jobs, thats giving you a sense theyre not expecting to reopen or come back to full service any time soon either. We are seeing Small Businesses, 40 across the country are still closed, even in states like georgia and oklahoma that started the reopening. What were seeing in the data is it will be a long haul. Steve. I agree that it will be a long haul. First of all, recessions are harder to get out of to get into. It took 25 weeks in 2008 for us to lose the jobs we lost and it took twice as long, over 50 weeks for us to get it back. Thats the best case. Secondly, as i talk to ceos, as we talk to companies as part of our investment activities, over and over again we hear companies are not going to bring back the same number of workers they had before. Theyre learning how to do more with less. Theyre cutting back on capital expenditures. They dont believe demand will be there. They believe it will be a very, very long time before people resume many of their normal habits of travel, going out to dinner, things like that. That means fewer jobs. So personally i think we are looking not just at six months or a year, but a very long and rocky road back from this terrible, terrible recession we are having. University economist john friedman, thank you very much. Steve ratner, thank you as well. Well have you back on tomorrow at this time when the new unemployment numbers are released. Still ahead, our next guest is comparing coronavirus to another deadly issue plaguing america, gun violence. A new york ciNew York Times o columnist says the u. S. Seems resigned to preventable firearm deaths, and it appears the same thing is starting to happen with coronavirus fatalities. A look at that new piece next on morning joe. You power through chronic migraine, 15 or more headache or migraine days a month. One tough mother. Youre bad enough for botox®. Botox® has been preventing headaches and migraines before they even start for almost 10 years, and is the 1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. Botox® is for adults with chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more. Effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. 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Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. Get the perfectly grilled flavors of an outdoor grill indoors, and because its a ninja foodi, it can do even more, like transform into an air fryer. The ninja foodi grill, the grill that sears, sizzles, and air fry crisps. Ibut youre not alone. Apart for a bit, were automatically refunding our customers a portion of their personal auto premiums. Learn more at libertymutual. Com covid19. [ piano playing ] no uh uh, no way come on, no no nnnnono only discover has no annual fee on any card. Joining us now, New York Times opinion writer at large, charlie worsel. Open states, lots of guns. America is paying a heavy price for freedom. And he writes in part, as in the gun control debate, Public Opinion, Public Health and the public good seem poised to lose out to a select set of personal freedoms. But its a childs twodimensional view of freedom, one where any suggestion of collective duty and responsibility for others become the chains of tyranny. The idea of freedom is also an excuse to serve ones self before others. And a shield to hide from responsibility. In the gun rights fight, that freedom manifests in firearms falling into unstable hands. During a pandemic, that freedom manifests in rejections of masks, despite evidence to suggest they protect both the wearers and the people around them. Which, by the way, charlie, the president did yesterday in the oval office surrounded by at least a dozen nurses and frontline workers all standing two feet apart from each other, not Wearing Masks, probably at the direction of the president because most people would like to wear masks, not only to protect themselves but to protect others from their own droplets. Thats the reason for them. And the president chooses to flout that publicly every day. To your piece, which i think is fascinating, but the desensitization that american s seem to feel about gun violence you now worry will apply to coronavirus deaths. If you could take the theory further and expound upon it. Were looking at the gun violence debate, were looking at a debate defined by a very few select people, a small group of people who dont represent gun owners at large. Gun owners at large are responsible. They care about protecting others, as well as, you know, protecting themselves. Its a very nuanced debate. It is one that involves the medical community, involves Law Enforcement, involves the government. And that debate is basically silenced by a very small group of people and what those people want is a very narrow definition of gun rights which is, i can have anything and i can take as much as i want, and i can use that freedom to intimidate, to serve myself first. To do whatever i want. Everyone else be damned. And thats very similar to the debate with the reopening protests, this idea of going out in public with the virus. Its a debate thats defined by a very small fringe of people. A fringe of people that unfortunately includes the president of the United States and many of his top advisers. But this group of people has a very selfish, a very narrow definition of what that freedom means. Its not a collective freedom. Its not a freedom in which were stronger together. It is not a freedom that talks about picking up those rights in lesser consideration. This allow s people to intimidae and not feel safe. Its backed up by numbers as well. Someone may say, no, coronavirus has killed almost 75,000 people. This is an incredible human catastrophe thats struck this country in just a few months time. But if you look at the number of deaths in mass shootings, most people are quite surprised to see how often and how many people die. What really got me thinking about this comparison is the fact that we have gun violence and deaths as a result in the United States every day. And sometimes we have these mass shootings. They make the news but so many of the suicides in rural areas dont. Even shootings in schools now are so prevalent that they dont make the news. And it felt analogous to the situation now. Were obviously very fixated on the coronavirus and the death toll and we talk about it a lot. But 2,000 people nearly are dying a day, maybe less at the moment. Its projected to go higher and were not able to process that death toll adequately because every day theres a new wave of that. And so as with gun violence, it makes me think because we have to mentally protect ourselves and because were not getting any help from the government to stem this, and because were trying to open society back up very soon, if not right now, we might get used to this. And thats the nightmare scenario is this becomes normal to look at the news every morning and see a death toll of 1500 to 3,000 people. And thats similar to what we see with gun violence. On a different scale, yes. But we have basically resigned ourselves to the fact that what can we do . This is the price we pay for freedom. Hey, charlie. Its willie. Good to see you this morning. I keep thinking about that every morning when we see these announcements of death totals and it goes up. It becomes sort of part of the day, and its terrible and tragic but it becomes a routine to see the numbers go up. And we have heard in both cases, guns and the coronavirus pandemic that theres just going to be an acceptable number of deaths we have to live with in order to maintain freedom, which we all want to do, or to go back to work. If we want to open our society and stop seeing it thursday on thursdays at 8 30 every week, these terrible unemployment numbers, we have to accept well wake up every morning and hear these terrible numbers of deaths discipline it look to you inevitable that as many doctors have said and this is going to come back in the fall that this will become part of our lives every day . You know, im obviously not a doctor, but i think its impossible to ignore the reality that weve done very little to vanquish this illness. We do not have a vaccine. We do not have a true tested therapeutic thats going to get out of this. We dont have a test, trace and isolate system like countries like south korea. So we havent done the work and yet we believe that there is, obviously, so many people hurting, we do need to have some economic activity. We do need to get people into jobs. But the government hasnt done the steps yet to get us there. And yet were reopening anyhow. States are very concerned. People are very concerned. Public opinion is that people are afraid of this and they dont want to go back out until they know they can be safe. And thats similar to the Public Opinion of people who are sending their kids to schools and dont want them to be shut. Were afraid because were not being protected by the people who should be doing that protecting. And so what weve done instead is resigned ourselves to the fact that this is, you know, this is the price that we pay for living our lives. And that is, frankly, thats just not a true calculation. Opinion writer at large for the New York Times, charlie warzel. One final story this morning. The Supreme Court announced yesterday that Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg was released from Johns Hopkins hospital in baltimore after being treated for gallstones. She underwent nonsurgical treatment on tuesday for a benign gallbladder condition that was causing an infection. Last summer, ginsburg was treated for a cancerous tumor on her pancreas and underwent surgery in late 2018 for lung cancer. According to a Supreme Court spokesman, the 87yearold justice is doing well and glad to be back home. Shes set to return to the hospital for followup outpatient visits over the next few weeks to eventually remove the gallstone. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. Initial jobless claims coming in at 3,169,000 the thing for me is losing that its just a terrible situation, and it seems like nothing is going to be done. The contraction in the Second Quarter is going to be much deeper than the first quarter. People are absolutely scared, but there are other people that are scared about being locked in a room and losing their job. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. It is thursday, may 7th. Welcome to a very special hour. Over the next two days, well be focusing all of our attention on the massive task of getting our nations economy going again. Were going to try to make sense of all of the uncertainty ahead and look at what specifically is ahead for big business, Small Business and, of course, the millions and millions of americans trying desperately to make ends meet. We got another rough weekly jobs report. Another 3. 2 million americans filed jobless claims. Im talking unemployment. Add that to the last six weeks, and the number is over 33 million. To put that in perspective, those 33 Million People are all firsttime filers. They havent been in this situation before. Back in february, before all of this happened, there were 158 million americans out there on the job. These numbers indicate that roughly 20 of them are now out of work. Thats 1 in 5. Tomorrow, were going to get the april jobs report, and i assure you it is going to be a bad one. More and more Business Leaders are saying they fear a depressionary environment. They