Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200320

Join us later this morning, warns the citys hospitals are two to three weeks away from running out of essential medical supplies. In pennsylvania, the governor warns the state will be enforcing its new order to close all businesses that are not needed to sustain life. In florida, the states largest county, miamidade, and other towns have issued orders to close beaches. Governor ron desantis wont issue a statewide order, saying that local orders and his ban on large gatherings will suffice. Weve got a lot to get to. Good morning. Welcome to morning joe. It is friday, march 20th. Joe will be back on monday. Along with willie and me, we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press, jonathan lemire. Capitol hill correspondent and host on msnbc, kasie hunt. Associated editor of the Washington Post, msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. We mentioned mayor bill de blasios warning that new york City Hospitals are two to three weeks away from running out of essential medical supplies. That is the big concern across the country. From big cities to rural locations. As more coronavirus cases overwhelm already dwindling supplies of masks, surgical groanw gowns, and eye gear for workers to do their jobs safely and effecti effectively. Many masks have a shelf life. You cant use them all the time. Were hearing stories of whats happening on the health front lines. One hospital in minnesota is considering shutting its doors over supply concerns. In illinois, an intensive care nurse was told to make a single use mask last for five days. In los angeles, doctors were forced to use expired masks to examine coronavirus patients. The elastic band snapped when they tried to put them on. Others are turning to homemade remedies to ease the burden. Doctors in seattle are using items purchased at home depot and craft stores to create protective face masks. Nurses in boston are gathering racket ball glasses in place of safety goggles. This is where we are, and were at the first phase of this virus. All of this happening as more Health Care Workers catch coronavirus, which could drastically limit the nations ability to combat the spreading disease. At yesterdays white house briefing, Vice President mike pence claimed that supplies are available now. Were working with governors to make sure that the Health Care Providers, the hospitals, and the clinics in their state are placing orders now that this tremendous increase in supply, particularly with industrial masks, is now available. Were going to make sure they understand that the supply has greatly expanded, thanks to Bipartisan Legislation and the accomplishment the president , and the response by the companies is making more masks available. Were going to make sure Health Care Providers are purchasing those and the federal government will also make sure our stockpile is properly reflecting the increases, as well. So mr. When will on the president s question, when will nose mthose masks be . They need them today. Theyre available now. Theyre not. Theyre absolutely not available now. What the Vice President just said, and he is in charge of this Coronavirus Task force that the president has put together, standing next to the president of the United States, the Vice President said something that was not true. Here we go. Bloomberg reports that it could take up to 18 months for hospitals to see supplies from Companies Making masks right now. Heres how the president addressed the federal governments role in the nationwide shortage of medical equipment. You enabled, i guess is probably the best way to put it, the defense production act yesterday, but you didnt pull the trigger. We hope were not going to need it. Youre getting calls on capitol hill from the democratic leadership to do it. What is the rational . Governors are supposed to be doing a lot of this work, and they are doing the work. Federal government isnt supposed to be buying vast amounts of items and shipping. Were not a shipping clerk. The governors are supposed to be, as with testing. The governors are supposed to be doing it. Well help out, and well help out wherever we can. We can buy in volume and, in some cases, great volume. With the masks as an example, which were a problem. Weve helped out. There are millions of masks right now being made. This is really for the local governments, governors, and people within the state, depending on the way they divided it up. Theyll do that, and theyre doing a very good job of it. Where you have a problem with ventilators, were working very hard trying to find nobody in their wildest dreams would have thought we need tens of thousands of ventilators. This is something that is very unique to this. Were headed to a crisis that this country potentially has never seen in anyones lifetime. The president seems to be separating himself from it, saying were not the countrys shipping clerk. He seems detached. He is putting out information thats not true. Well be telling you later about a drug he says is approved and ready to go. His minions on fox were echoing that fact, which is not a fact. It is not true. The Vice President now is getting caught up in the president s branding exercise, willie geist, naming companies that will be making masks. Masks that are not available now. This is a crisis in leadership that is ultimately going to have incredible ramifications for the American People. It is a crisis in leadership and in hospitals right now. If those masks were available, as Vice President pence claimed yesterday, we wouldnt be hearing from hospitals. We wouldnt be hearing from doctors. I wouldnt be getting frantic texts from doctors saying were down to our last mask, or were already out of masks. It is not just for the places taking coronavirus patients. It is for other hospitals who are being asked to give some of their masks to these critical centers, places like cancer hospitals here in new york city that are out of masks or have a week supply left. They have to get out and move quickly. A group of hospitals in indiana is getting ahead of the mask shortage by asking the public to sew masks for the hospital. The Deaconess Health system released this video, showing the public how to sew a face mask, along with a pdf of the pattern to follow. A spokesperson for the Hospital Group says the instructions meet cdc protocols, and that the homemade masks will be sterilized. How long does it take to do one . It takes about 15 to 20 minutes. Obviously, when you first start out, it is probably closer to 20 minutes, minutes. As you make several, itll go faster. Gene robinson, i cant believe what im watching. It is a hospital in evansville, indiana, doing what it has to do to get through this. Pleading with the general public. Please, at home, sew us masks. If you read through the instructions, they say, give us a call. Well meet you in the parking lot of a facility. Deliver the masks, and well sterilize them. In this country, that in 1940 and 1941, turned automobile factories into airplane factories almost overnight, where are the masks . Where are the supplies . Hospitals are dying out here. Its unbelievable. Yesterday, the cdc recommended that doctors, you know, who are working on coronavirus patients, if necessary, use a bandana or a scarf. Which was, i thought, the most amazing thing i had heard, most shocking thing i had heard, until you played that piece about the homemade masks. It is unbelievable. For the president of the United States to stand there and say, we are not a shipping clerk, to absolve himself of responsibility, when the federal government has a unique ability to commandeer, order the production of and commandeer those masks and get them to where they need to go. Its just incredible. You know, i mean, the phrase failure of leadership, i think, is one were weve used the past few days. Were going to use it a lot more. While were describing this situation, it has realworld effect on patients, on medical care providers. It is shocking. Jonathan lemire, im hearing from doctors who i know and doctors i built relationships with more recently as weve gone through this crisis to be strong, calm people. Im sensing panic in their voice, fear in their voice as they plea, we need this equipment, or else all the doctors and nurses are going to get sick. Then they wont be able to provide care for the people flooding the hospitals. Heres another eyeopening number. Hhs official at a Senate Hearing earlier this month said in the middle of a pandemic, this country would need 3. 5 billion masks. Billion with a b. We cant even get masks on shelves of these hospitals right now. Right. The wave of these cases is like just starting to break. Yeah. It is going to get so much wosh worse, according to all health experts. Hospitals are on the verge of being overwhelmed. Mayor de blasio said were two, three weeks from pure crisis. There will be a domino effect if the First Responders, the Health Care Workers get sick themselves, then theyre taken out of service. The care for the patients just gets that much slower and potentially ineffective. From the white house, were still seeing so much was made, too much was made, about President Trumps shift in tone tat beginning of the week. That has faded as the week has gone on. Thats evaporated here, and there hasnt been a lot of strong leadership, to the frustration of some of his aides and republicans on capitol hill who want him to do more. Were getting overpromising. The website has just come to life, and it only serves california. It is not something that is a national approach. I know were going to get into the drugs later, but the fda has to put out a statement, saying, first of all, the medicines, we dont know if theyll work, and if they do, they wont work for months. The head of the fda was standing behind President Trump when he made the claim, this was false. In the moment, he tap danced around it. They put out a strong statement later. This white house is still trying to win the pr battle rather than deliver the ventilators, masks, and services to the sick people in the country who need it. That is exactly the case. Thats what im seeing completely. That shift in tone, by the way, jonathan lemire, i have to say, we all recognized it. We talked about it. Some of us louded it. I think that was hopeful. At this point, every american, whether youre a journalist, a health care worker, american citizen, is hoping for leadership at this point. Look at the white house. You have a live look at the white house. Usually the lights are on, 6 00 in the morning. Theres hans. Behind him, the white house. Ill get to hans nichols. This could be symbolic. Youve got american citizens doing social distancing. Youve got Health Care Workers doing what they can to condition front this crisis would be the supplies. You have scientists desperately saying, desperately saying that we are directly on track with italy. Yet the lights seem to be out completely in this white house. The president seems to be unmatched. He is putting out false information by the day. The president also claimed yesterday, hans, an antimalaria drug would be available almost immediately to help treat coronavirus. That is not true. Factcheck that. Reporter theres clearly some steps that need to take place with chloroquine to have it ready for anyone who needs it, as well as the ebola drug, which there are promising results on. Pull up the shot of the white house, and you see the upstairs light on. You look up to see which lights are on, to see whether or not the president is up. It could be an indication well get some tweets. Normally, the lights that shine on the white house come from these reporters here, the correspondents row, where we throw lights at them. They asked us to turn some of those down. I cant say definitively whether or not the lights of the white house are less on from the white house perspective. From our perspective, we were asked to turn some lights off early this morning. Overall, the president really is facing three difficult decisions this morning. How to deal with this on an international front, how to deal with this internally. Internally, we may get an update at 11 45. Crucially, and this is more kasies territory, what to do on the hill with the size of stimulus. Internationally, he is paring pack. We had reporting late last night, you dont want to antagonize in this moment. You want to hunker down. We should get an update at 11 11 45. There are inconsistencies rhetorically as well as whats happening on the ground that the white house hasnt clarified. Then we get to the idea of the spending package and how much stimulus there is going to be. Again, this is more kasie, but this doesnt feel like a split the difference moment. This is a double the difference moment. I dont know if americans can have sticker shock anymore, but this number is trending towards the 2 trillion number, not the other way around. That is remarkable to listen to Senate Republicans talk about that. Guys . Yeah. Weve got kasie hunt standing by. Well get to her in a minute on that, on whats happening on capitol hill, where some of the action is. I got a question for you. It is a serious one. It may sound sarcastic, but im dead serious. President trump trots out mike pence, who is now beginning to lie to the American Public along with him. Then the scientists who are doing their best. Dr. Fauci, dr. Birx, and the others all standing too close on the podium every day. So my question to you is, during times of crisis, a president has an inner circle. An inner circle beyond the czars and the teams hes set up to respond to a crisis. Who is the president s inner circle . Please name the people. Who are the people who are around him all day, every day, helping him figure out how to make decisions . Reporter well, there are two, right . There are multiple inner circles. Two people . Jared kushner is playing a key role on this. We saw it with the wednesday night speech, the address to the nation on wednesday night. The kushner faction. We dont quite know how the mark meadows and Mick Mulvaney chief of staff role is playing into this. Meadows is the new chief of staff. You have mulvaney, who is leaving. He was out for large parts of the week because he had been exposed. He wasnt part of this. Then theres the president s outside advisers. Thats always the problem when you have a chief of staff that isnt particularly strong or, in this case, isnt particularly stood up, is so many people can get information into the president. As we see with this president , he is liable and likely to say whatever the last person told him. That may account for some of theothe responses from the president. Kushner is playing a key role, as well as the new chief of staff. I think people are still feeling their way around this new environment. Remember, it was just the end of the month or beginning of last month that, in the middle of all of this, the president decided to change his chief of staff. Okay. Hans, thanks very much. Kasie hunt, lets talk about whats happening on capitol hill. Trying to get aid to the American People. Mika, were waiting kind of minute by minute as these negotiations unfold. I think the pig question for the day today is are the houses of congress, are house representatives and the senate going to be able to rise to this occasion and do business differently than theyve done . Weve gotten strong signals they may be willing to. If you listen to a lot of the republicans in the senate, youll be stunned. You may not recognize them based on what their advising, how much money we spend, how many of them are angry that the current draft of the bill doesnt give more money to the neediest among us. It is linked to how much income you may have had in a previous year. As hans pointed out, this is creeping towards the 2 trillion mark. At the same time, there havent been the kind of levels of conversations between republicans and democrats that this situation seems to demand. Thats what im looking for today. Can they actually get together in a room and rise to what this occasion is demanding of them . You know, the only thing i can hope at this point, mika, is that they actually are capable of demonstrating they can work. How many times have we talked about on this show the function or lack thereof of the u. S. Congress . I think a lot of americans really didnt have much faith in Congress Going into this. Now, they have so much riding on whether or not they can actually work together. I think they still are a ways to go to prove theyre ready to take on this unbelievable task. Additionally, heres hoping that it is enough to make a difference. Because this crisis is spreading and metastasizing so quickly, i dont think any of us really have our heads around that. You know, i just hope if they can get this bill together, it actually is something that can make a difference. I think that spiral is expanding quickly, and theres real questions about that. There are scientists who say in the coming days things are going to be really, really different. Willie, Claire Mccaskill tweeted she has a daughterinlaw who is a nurse, and the hospital is setting up sewing stations throughout the building. I saw that. To make masks and gowns. Isnt that i maamazing . Nurses themselves becoming seamstresses before they can put on masks and treat patients. To the larger question, john meacham joins us now. Ill appeal to the historian in you, which is all of you, so this will work well. The arsenal of democracy, which i mentioned before, 1940, fdr makes that speech. The automobile factories flip, gm and ford, very quickly, from making automobiles to making b14 liberators, one an hour at one point in the ford factory. What kind of moment do we need here, and what kind of a president do we need here to inspire that, to get this country making masks . We dont have to make a bomber, just make a bunch of masks, gloves, gowns, and get them into these hospitals. Yeah. I would say, my instinct is to say this is not a time for polit politics, but this is precisely a time for politics in its purist sense. The root of the word is people, city. A group of people brought together. So we need a president who will get the job done. Fdr said in the 1930s, try something. Try a method. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something. And this is not building a bomber. Youre right. What i would say to everybody is we are in a war. The president himself, if you support the president , he has said this. Hes used that ve knane vernacu. The doctors, nurses, medical personnel, the testing people, they are the soldiers in this war. Were all part of it, obviously, because we could all be victims, or carriers of it. But they are really the classic idea of the soldier. Imagine how you would feel if we were in a traditional shooting war, kand the commander in chie failed to put bullets in the rifles of our soldiers. Thats where we are. Its not even as complicated, i dont think, as making a bullet. So this is the as joe biden likes to say, this is the United States of america. We have defeated communist tyranny. Weve defeated nazi germany. Weve carried the idea, if not the reality, of the quality throughout the world for 240 years. We cant make masks . Really . With this concentration of wealth, with this concentration of skill, were going to isolate and watch these now sort of hour and ten, hour and fifteen minutes of this trump reality show he does at midday. Which is fine if it is a reality for him, but it is our reality. It is unconscionable. The private sector, citizens need to step forward. At this point, we cannot rely on the president to be a good and effective actor in this time of crisis. Thats my historical view. Yeah. Cannot rely. The leadership has failed from the getgo on this. We cant make masks. It does take leadership to galvanize action, to mobilize a mass production of products. We needed time. We dont have it. At this point, selfisolation, which were going to talk a lot more about, because people need to ramp up. Its our one weapon against this. But this virus, to your point, jo to the concern you were expressing about how unconscionable this is, our reality is this virus excludes nobody. Rich or poor, doesnt respond to branding, and it totally debunks lies. The leadership of this president is being exposed by this virus, which well talk more about. Were going to need help from the American People and from the private sector at this point, from what were seeing. Still ahead on morning joe, there are profiles of courage happening now. Took one day for 1,000 retired doctors and nurses to answer mayor bill de blasios call to join the citys medical reserve. Those in private practice also volunteered. Credential medical students, federal medical workers, and those from out of state are also being recruited. Mayor de blasio will be our guest. Plus, the word outrage is thrown around a lot these days, but this next story fits the bill. Some senators selling key stocks to beat the market plunge. Seemingly profiting off what they knew about the impending coronavirus outbreak. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. The ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the Pressure Cooker that crisps. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair®. Weve got the retinol that gives you results in one week. Not just any retinol. Accelerated retinol sa. For not only smoother skin in one day, but youngerlooking skin in just one week. And thats clinically proven. Results that fast or your money back. 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According to propublica, senator and Committee Chairman richard burr sold off 628,000 and 1. 7 million of his holdings on february 13th. The report points out that as the head of the Intel Committee, burr, of course, has access to the governments most highly classified information about threats to american security. His Committee Received daily coronavirus briefings around the time of the sale. Npr is reporting on february 27th, burr raised alarms about coronavirus while speaking to a group of constituents. Theres one thing that i can tell you about this, it is much more aggressive in its transmission than anything that we have seen in recent history. Its probably more akin to the 1918 pandemic. An aide to senator burr tells nbc news the stock sales were made several weeks before the u. S. And Financial Markets showed signs of volatility due to the growing coronavirus outbreak. The daily beast also reporting that georgia senator Kelly Loeffler dumped off millions following a briefing on the coronavirus. She reported the first stock jointly owned by her and her husband on january 24th, the very same day the Senate Health Committee Held a briefing for senate officials, including dr. Fauci. She called it a ridiculous and baseless attack on twitter overnight, writing, i do not make Investment Decisions for my portfolio. Investment decisions are made by thirdparty advisers without my or my husbands knowledge or involvement. It is worth noting senator loefflers husband is the chairman of the new york stock exchange. Meanwhile, the New York Times reports two other senators sold Major Holdings around the same time senator burr did. According to the disclosure records, fellow Intel Committee member, democrat Diane Feinstein of california and james inhoeff of okay. Kasie, what is the beginning and the timeline for senator burr . I mean, this is the American People who are reading these stories right now just have to be beyond livid, as congress is fighting over whether to send them maybe theyll be able to send them 2,400 per married couple. The way this looks is astonishing. You can see and feel the anger. Ive had a number of viewers already write to me when this news first broke. Theres no other way to get your head around it. Both of them are dealing with it by saying, essentially, attack the media and saying the stories arent valid, et cetera. Kelly loeffler is the richest member of congress before the stock market volatility. Her and her husbands network was estimated at half a billion dollars. These are people, a lot of the lawmakers, frankly, who have access to things a lot of regular americans dont have access to. The reality though, willie, and i think another thing thats making people angry as they digest these stories, is that this is not technically illegal. It is, obviously you know, we can talk about what it means and whether or not its appropriate. I think those questions are pretty easy to answer. The reality is that it is not against the law. Who writes the laws . Members of congress. I think as we you know, history is not going to remember these things. Jon meacham can speak to these things better than i can. This is a time of testing for everyone, and i think we are starting to see whose character is standing up well and whose is not. John lemire, the defense from senator burr himself, we heard from his spokesman, was nprs reporting, calling it a tabloidstyle hit piece but didnt defend the sale of that stock. Jo Diane Feinstein did the same. The defense seems to be, i dont make these decisions. A thirdparty makes them. For senator feinstein, a blind trust makes the decisions about my investment. My god, if you look at the timeline, a senator goes into a meeting, is told just how bad this is going to be, and then a short time later, those stocks that relate to this, hotels, things like that, are dumped. In the case of senator loeffler, others are purchased that might thrive in this pandemic. Perhaps there is a thirdparty or a blind trust, although it must be noted, the burrs defense there focuses on the timing. Hes saying the sales were done before the market got bad. Not suggesting that they were not done after he had received a briefing. Right. This was clearly information he had received before this happened. Whether to kasies point, whether this is technically illegal or not, this is a moral outrage. Americans are asked to take 1,000 or 2,000, americans trapped in their homes, americans whose jobs are disappearing, americans whose favorite restaurant already closed. This is the thing that will fill them with rage. It must be pointed out, we know this because we know these things because of good reporting and Senate Financial disclosure forms. You know who hasnt disclosed . The trump family. President trump and his family havent done the disclosures. There is no way, right now, for the American Public to know that perhaps, and not suggesting anyone has done anything wrong, but if the trump family did the same thing, we wouldnt know about it. Mika, where this isnt playing well, once again as things change, fox news. Tucker carlson was railing against senator richard burr last night. Saying if this is what it appears to be, he ought to resign immediately. Absolutely. At this point, i think a lot of people are looking at this virus the same way. Yeah. It is bad, and nobody should be profiting off of it. We need leadership. Caskasie hunt, thank you so muc for being on. We look forward to talking with you more next week. Our next guest says the coronavirus is here to stay. What happens next . Former obama Health Policy adviser, dr. Zeke emanual, joins us next on morning joe. Announcer morning joe sponsored by voya financial. Be confident to and through retirement. Retirement overdid what . Well planned, well invested, well protected. Voya. Be confident to and through retirement. The best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. The ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the Pressure Cooker that crisps. I need all the breaks, that i can get. At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. aurelia i was just frustrated i almost gave up. Company. With miracleear, its all about service. Theyre personable, theyre friendly. Im very happy with them. vo we provide you with a free lifetime of aftercare, meaning free checkups, cleanings and adjustments. wiley i see someone new. Someone happy. Its really made a difference. vo call 1800miracle to start your 30day riskfree trial and schedule your free hearing evaluation at your locally owned miracle ear today. Yesterdays white house briefing, there was a lot of confusion. President trump stated that an antimalaria drug would be available almost immediately to help treat coronavirus. A drug called chloroquine, and some people would had to it hydroxy, hydroxychloroquine. So chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. It is a common malaria drug, and its shown very, very encouraging, early results. Were going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. Thats where the fda has been so great. Just minutes later, the fda commissioner cautioned that the drug has not been approved for use against the virus and is still being tested. I have great hope for how were going to come out of this situation. Whats also important is not to provide false hope. The fda is committed to continuing to provide regulatory flexibility and guidance. Let me make one thing clear, fdas responsibility to the American People is to ensure that products are safe and effecti effective. We need to make sure the sea of new treatments will get the right drug to the right patient at the right dosage at the right time. As an example, we may have the right drug, but it may not be in the appropriate dosage form right now. That may do more harm than good. So the fda also put out a statement after that briefing. Reading, in part, while there are no fdaapproved therapeutics or drugs to treat, cure x , or prevent covid19, there are several fdaapproved treatments that may help ease the symptoms from a Supportive Care perfe perspecti perspecti perspective. Thats not what the president was saying. Dr. Dave campbell, the president was using words like almost immediately,. Results will be unthinkable, fantastic, rapid, quick, so fast. He was talking about two specific drugs that will be used to treat. Can you tell us about the drugs and the reality theyll be able to do anything to stem the curve of this crisis . Absolutely. Mika, the one that really is exciting and is out there and is in Clinical Trials right now is remdesivir, an antiviral. My source here in south florida, dr. Leslie diaz, the chair of Infection Control at a local hospital, is optimistic about remdesivir. In china, it is being used. In the u. S. , it is being used in Clinical Trials. The other one, chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine, she has some concern about an immune deficiency link that would be counterproductive. The fda has been clear, in my opinion, that their job is to make sure drugs are safe and effective for the particular condition that theyre having asked to be used for. With chloroquine, we really have to be cautious but optimistic. Dr. Dave, thats great. Thats all great. We got that really doesnt help us if were weeks away, just like the warships are weeks away. Just like a lot of these options that the president was talking about in terms of supplies are not weeks away, they dont exist at this point. I want to ask you about information that does exist. Thats the science around this. We were talking on the phone last night. Were going to get to young people. This question will ease us into it. The science is telling us that were on par with italy at this point. Are there any reasons to believe that were not . Also, what is the medical community, what is the Health Care Community going to look like one week, two weeks, three weeks from now, in your estimate from data that youre looking at . I am frightened that the hospitals across the country will be running out of supplies, overrun with patients that are testing positive to coronavirus, covid19 disease, and that we will be running short of ventilators, and perhaps most importantly, the personnel that will be required to treat the patients that are sick, the Health Care Workers will themselves become infected periodically. Theyll need to stay away from other patients or they will get sick enough to stay in a hospital ped. So we have this conundrum that is going to make us look like italy if we dont, all across the country, socially distance. If there is even time to do that. But it is better to do that than not. So im quite concerned, mika, that in the next two to four weeks, we will be having different discussions. All right. Dr. Dave, well be talking more about this. I know youre very concerned about young people, smoking, vaping. Vaping at this point is a no. Anything that makes your lungs weaker. Were on our own. You want to stay out of a hospital. There are things we can do ourselves at this point, until the government and the private sector catches up, if they can. Dr. Dave campbell, thank you very much. Willie . Lets bring in former white house adviser for Health Policy under president obama, dr. Zeke emmanuel from the university of pennsylvania. In his latest oped, it is entitled the coronavirus is here to stay. So whats next . Doctor, good to see you. I want to get to the 30,000 view big picture of where things are headed. But specifically as a medical doctor, i want to ask about the implication of the lack of supply in hospitals, this lack of supply of masks, gloves, and gowns. What does that mean exactly for the future of this outbreak . Let me tell you, i got contacted by an emergency room doctor i know in denver. He was telling me that i asked him what the situation is. He says they dont have enough protective equipment. He described to me how a woman came in who needed to be i th k incubated. There was no mask or gown. He incubated her. If she has coronavirus, the chances he gets coronavirus are very high. These are the situations, going to the back of the throat, the lungs with a tube and a clamp. It is a problem. Itll knock out a lot of people. That has been pointed out by some people, about 9 of the people in italy who have gotten infected have been Health Care Workers. You knock out a health care worker, theyre out at least 14, maybe 21, 28 days, theyre not doing their job. We dont have an excess supply. Just take respiratory therapists who handle the ventilators were all talking about. There are 76,000 in this country. They have to staff a hospital for three shifts. Each one can overlook four, five, six ventilators. You dont have a lot of excess capacity to care for all the patients in the country. You know, if we dont have enough stuff, we dont have enough people, and we dont have enough pedestriabeds, well hav serious, serious problem in this country. What do you see as a policy matter, changing that trajectory . Right now, its slow to get any of that equipment. Theyre talking about retrofitting shuttered automobile plants in the state of michigan to take ventilators. Noble effort but itll take time. How do we stop what youre discussing and explaining could happen very soon, how do we stop that from happening . So there are two things. First, we obviously need to ramp up production. Were talking huge. Wartime production. Just a mask, it is estimated we need 3. 5 billion masks in the country. I talked to elon musk yesterday about making ventilators. He thinks it is Something Like eight to ten weeks before his plant can get online. It is in our hands, as mika said. Social distancing, staying away from people, staying away from droplets, that is going to be the key here to try to damp down the number of people who get coronavirus, the number of people who need hospitalization, and the number of people who need ventilators, icu care, and doctor care. Unless we damp down those numbers, i couldnt know, we are going to have some serious problems. What i see is that some states are serious. Ohio under mike dewine, republican governor. California, washington under jay inslee, new york, and many other states. Then you have state s like florida that are partying like its normal times. This makes no sense. Doctor, its jonathan lemire. Let me follow up on that point. What sort of guidelines do you think average americans should be following in terms of their behavior, in terms of social distancing, and those who are just sort of coming to grips with this . Their life has changed dramatically in the last week, ten days. Theyre staying indoors, not going to work, children arent going to school. How long should we anticipate that happening . What are extreme cases as to how long this could have to last . Lets deal with china, wh hubei province, from that moment to when it came down, looked to be 8 to 12 weeks. Thats what were looking at for the next social distancing episode, 8 to 12 weeks. It is three months, basically, for people. April, may, june. Were talking somewhere in, you know, may 15th to july 1st. Were going to then, hopefully, be able to ease up on the social restrictions. Weve got to be very clear about it. The virus is going to come back. It is not like it is going away. Well have this roller coaster of social restrictions. Then well have easing up, social restrictions, easing up, to try to smooth out the demand on the health care system. Look, it is a very big i imposition on everyone. I like to throw dinner parties. We cant eat dinner with anyone else. This is i find that very problematic. Not talking to friends. This is just a serious, serious change in our life, but it is a matter of vital importance if we want to save people. That Imperial College estimate, that if we dont do this, 2. 2 Million People die. Ill put that in context for your viewers. 2. 7 Million People die every year. Thats like doubling the total death rate in the United States. I dont think thats acceptable. It is a horrible idea. Were starting to hear more of these individual stories, zeke. While any outbreak has its share of harrowing stories, it illustrates how real the consequences of the pandemic has become, and how important the very difficult social distancing has become. It is not just the eldlderly. Its not a rare occurrence. Hartford, connecticut, four hartford officers are recovering after testing positive. How many more cops in hartford have it . An example of how Law Enforcement is feeling the strain, as they take on addit n additional roles during critical times. Many local Police Forces are having to conduct wellness checks for children now stuck at home alone while their parents are at work. In new jersey, a Single Family has lost four members to the coronavirus. Four from one family. 19 other members of that same family, from spouses to children, have been tested and are now under quarantine. In california, a 34yearold man who tested positive for the coronavirus after visiting disney world and traveling through Los Angeles International airport. He was at disney world in florida as well as universal. He died yesterday at a hospital in pasadena. On march 7th, the man developed a cough. Less than two weeks later, he was dead. Zeke, those stories are getting closer to us. People were crammed in disney world in florida just last week. Yeah. So first of all, that case illustrates young people can get it, and they can have very bad symptoms. While the death rate may be low, 0. 2 is what were estimating based on chinese data, that doesnt mean it is zero. That does mean that some people will, unfortunately, die from this. We you know, most of us are feeling well, but we have to realize, you know, feeling well does not mean youre not infected or you cant become infected. There can be, as you point out, dire circumstances if we dont take this seriously. Just because young people feel invincible doesnt mean they are invincib invincible. Partying in florida with all those older people around, that is a recipe for all of florida becoming one of those cruise ships. Gene robinson . Zeke, this is gene robinson. Yeah . Does anybody have any idea what the factors are that sort of determine who gets very sick from this virus and who walks around with the virus totally asymptomatic . It seems to i know that age, obviously, and respiratory conditions are a factor. It seems you know, you have the example of the 34yearold person who died. There are a lot of 34yearolds, presumably, who are Walking Around with the coronavirus. Is there some component, something about people that makes them more vulnerable . Do we know anything about that yet . We dont know anything about that. So, you know, there are two factors. I think, gene, you identified one of them. Is there something, maybe a particular gene that certain people have that makes them more susceptible . We dont know. People are working on that right now. I know people at the university of pennsylvania, this is a top priority. The other question is, is somehow the virus, as it proved from china to italy to iran, now to the United States, getting more lethal . Thats something you cant rule out. The viruses do mutate. While they often mutate to become easier and, therefore, not as big a problem, they can mutate to become more lethal. That would be a serious, serious, fworrisome problem to everyone. Dr. Zeke emanu a emanuel. Thank you. The trillion dollar revolution is your book. Gene robinson, well be reading your piece, how to Stay Together when you cant be together. Actors and politicians were tested, so were athletes. The wellconnected found easy access to coronavirus tests, while other americans, including front line Health Care Workers, have been shut out. Well talk to the Washington Post reporter who is digging into that. Plus, before the virus spread nationwide, Washington State was ground zero. Hospitals there are still sounding the alarm. All but begging for badly needed supplies. Well get an update on the struggle to treat patients and protect workers next on morning joe. 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The president , who wants nothing to do with tough questions. The buck apparently stops somewhere else. Maybe with mike pence, who then continues to say lies to the American People about what is available to them. Welcome back to morning joe. Friday, march 20th. Still with us, White House Reporter for the social medass press, jonathan lemire. Author of soul of america, jon meacham. Joining us is Political Writer for the New York Times, nick connoisseuri. Governor newsome announced a statewide, stay at home order, the first full state to do so. Saying he expects half of his states 40 million residents will become infected with the coronavirus. The number of confirmed cases in the u. S. Has passed 14,000. The number of deaths, more than 200. The state of new york is now reporting five times as many cases as california. More than 5,700. The number of confirmed cases exploding as more people get tested. New york is not yet ordering residents to stay home, but the governor has ordered 75 of the work force and nonessential services to do so. Almost 70 of confirmed cases in new york state are in new york city. Nearly 4,000. Mayor bill de blasio, who will join us later this morning, warns the citys hospitals are two to three weeks away from running out of essential medical supplies. Willie . That is the concern across the country, from big cities to rural hospitals, as more coronavirus cases overwhelm already dwindling supplies of masks, surgical gowns, and eye gear for workers to do their job safely and effectively. Were hearing more stories of what exactly is happening on the front lines. One hospital in minnesota considering now shuttingpletely concerns. Illinois, an intensive care nurse was told to make a singuse mask last five days. In los angeles, doctors used expired masks to examine coronavirus patients. The elastic band snapped when they tried to put them on. Others are turning to homemade remedies to ease the burden. Doctors in seattle are using items purchased at home depot and craft stores to create protective face shields. Nurses in boston are gathering racket ball glasses to use in place of safety goggles. All of this happening as more Health Care Workers catch coronavirus. That, of course, could drastically limit the nations ability to combat the spreading disease. Yesterdays white house briefing, Vice President pence claimed supplies are available now. Were working with governors to make sure the Health Care Providers, the hospitals, and the clinics in their state are placing orders now that this tremendous increase in supply, particularly with industrial masks, is now available. Were going to make sure they understand the supply has greatly expanded thanks to Bipartisan Legislation and the accomplishment of the president and t and the response of the companies are making more face masks available. The federal government will also make sure our stockpile is properly reflecting the increases, as well. So mr. President to the president s question, when will the masks be ready . They need them, like, today. Theyre available now. You enabled, is the best way to put it, the defense production act yesterday, but you didnt pull the trigger on it. We hope we wont need it. Youre getting calls from capitol hill, especially democratic leadership, to pull the trigger. Why arent you doing that . Governors are supposed to be doing a lot of this work, and they are doing a lot of this work. Federal government isnt supposed to be out there buying vast amounts of items and shipping. Were not a shipping clerk. The governors are supposed to be, as with testing. The governors are supposed to be doing it. Well help out and help out wherever we can. We can buy in volume. In some cases, great volume. With the masks as an example, which were really a problem. We have helped out, and there are right now millions of masks being made. This is really for the local governments, governors, and people within the state, depending on the way they divided it up. Theyll do that. Theyre doing a very good job of it. Where you have a problem with ventilators, were working very hard, trying to find nobody in their wildest dreams would have ever thought that we need tens of thousands of ventilators. This is something that is very unique to this. So, nick, to go back a couple sound bites, when Vice President pence was asked, where are the masks, he said, theyre available now. It is objectively not true, obviously. Ask any hospital or Health Care Professional in the country right now, pleading with us, pleading with the government at state and local levels and, of course, at the federal level, to get us critical supplies. They are not available. We dont have them. The Vice President was right, that they passed legislation that protects these companies, like 3m and honeywell from lawsuits, so they can start to release some construction grade masks, which dont meet the medical standards but can be useful at this point in hospitals. They dont have the supplies they need for the hospitals. I dont know why the white house would paint a rosy picture of whats happening. Read any headline in any paper or media outlet around the country. All you read about is shorages of the supplies. Well look back in a year or two and ask ourselves, how is it the wealthiest country in the history of the world has got ton a point where the problem for the crisis and the doctors right thousand is a lack of nasal swabs and face masks and alcohol and basic materials . This is an indictment of years and decades of bad planning and policy at the federal level on preventive care, or stockpiling. Think of how cheap it would have been to stockpile a few million of these masks in advance before the crisis. We just are not good at this stuff. The white house keeps doing the same thing over and over again. They promise too much, and they cant deliver it. By the i wit way, for the presi yes, we own the post office, so we are a shipping clerk. Were good at moving things in the military from one place to another. We have the resources, and it is time to activate them. Jonathan lemire, and then jon meacham, i have similar questions for both of you. The president s tone yesterday, when he was delivering a press conference with a couple of the medical experts, head of the fda, his tone was clueless and unmatched and, at times, he said things that were completely untrue. I dont know tha i want to ask you, jonathan, the same question i asked hans. The answer is of serious concern to the American People today. Pau because we need a strong team of leadership in the white house, and i fear it doesnt exist. Aside from this team, and the man on the left, the Vice President , was also saying things factually incorrect yesterday, who is the president s inner circle . That group of people advising him all day. Counterpointing with him. Telling him, you know, what certain decisions what the ramifications might be. Helping him think outside the box. Who are those people . Besides jared, his daughter, who i guess is quarantining, and some yes men, i dont know of any bright minds in the inner circle. If you would consider Jared Kushner to be an expert, which he is not. Who is there . I think it is a multipart answer. The medical professionals were seeing behind the stage near the president , most people think theyre competent and doing a good job. In the west wing, theres the team led by Vice President pence which is the public face of this. As weve been discussing, this is also a more shadowy team led by Jared Kushner who is working with businesses and so on to try to ramp up production. The failures here perhaps could be laid at his feet, at least in part, though he is relatively new to this effort. We talked about how the president just replaced his chief of staff. It is mark meadows. Hes only been on the job for a few days. That was a move that had been in the works for a while. I think he is in quarantine, as well. He has just come out of it. Hes not there. He just came out of it. He was in the oval Office Yesterday for the first time. Okay. Your point is very true. He was in quarantine. Prior to that, he was appointed to be sort of the president s political chief of staff, as he ramped up for the reelection. Before this crisis sort of really came home here to the United States. That was why that move was made. Then, of course, theres always the network of outside advisers the president talks to. These are businessmen, media figures. That is a key part. A few weeks ago, they were largely saying, perhaps drawing from social circles, this wasnt a big deal and the virus wasnt going to crash hard here in the United States. Thats changed. Okay. And final point. Tucker carlson, i think its part of this. The president s movement here, his change in tone came after he was at maralago a couple weeks ago with the brazilian president. Members of the brazilian delegation tested positive for the coronavirus. While there, Tucker Carlson drove, unannounced, from his home and pleaded with the president saying, this is going to be a bigger deal than youre realizing, out of step with the rest of the fox news lineup. Then members were getting sick. Congre congressmen. Then the stock market crashed. Then the president took it seriously. You want to manage the crisis. Whatre s were seeing are yes and family members. What are the risk to having a president who shuns democratic norms and doesnt have many people who will say no to him or speak back to him in his inner circle at a time like this . You know, weve talked for four years now, since 2015, in some ways, about the theoretical death of a constitutional order, a governmental order that, for all of its imperfections that many of us valued, its moved to a more literal phase. Theres nothing amusing, diverting, or simply interesting in the abstract anymore about this presidency. We are facing the wages of not having been a serious enough country about the person we sent to the oval office in 2016. Full stop. I could go on. I think we all understand the point. Im not being i promise, this is not being partisan. This is not some antired hat thing. Look, i live in tennessee. Im george h. W. Bushs biographer. I value the Republican Party that i knew when i was growing up. When i say i have conservative friends, because i live here, thats redundant. This is not some crazy leftwing thing. This is a clinical observation. I challenge any american, watch these briefings this week. All the way through. Because the wheels come off at the end when he starts being selfpitying. Tell me that you are confident that the lives of your family are safe in this mans hands. Now, we have to do the best we can. Willie yeah. We have to. What you also see is we have an administration with a lot of acting, a lot of empty positions. Theres not a lot of layers, first of all, of people who can do the job and help the president do the job. He doesnt have Anyone Around him who will give him bad news. Not a partisan point, the country would feel better if donald trump didnt appear at the briefings. Imagine if you had anthony fauci, imagine if you had dr. Birx up there, imagine if you had the commissioner, even Vice President pence can deliver the message, though mika pointed out he said things that werent true. Donald trump turns it selfpitying. It is about the media in the end. The country isnt interested in the sideshow. They want to know what is going on and what will happen in their lives today, tomorrow, to their families and grandparents. They want information. They dont want the reality show. Well see if he continues to appear. I suspect he will. Senior Vice President of the Washington State Hospital Association, beth zorbousky. Talk to us a little about the state of the hospitals in your state. Washington state was ground zero for a lot of people of where this well, not started, but where it came to the american imagination and conscience, when they say, wow, this could be a problem. What is going on not just in the hospitals in seattle but the rural hospitals across your state . Everyone is being impacted right now. The hospitals in the puget sound region are taking care of the bulk of the patients. What were seeing is it is having an impact across the state. Yesterday, our governor put out an order to cancel all elective surgeries. These are surgeries that are nonurgent for patients. Itll have an impact in the patient care. Also, this is vital lifeline supply for rural hospitals. Theyre going to be officially impacted for the long term. Weve heard from some of them they may have to close their doors, perhaps before this is over. The critical shortage weve had, the personnel equipment to protect our workers, is just not there. Weve also heard from rural hospitals thinking about shuttering services and perhaps their entire hospital if they cant protect their workers. That is our number one concern, is making sure we get those masks. Protect the nurses and the doctors and the techs that are on the front line. Were really concerned about that. We have hospitals down to a couple days. We have one rural hospital down to one mask left. You had stories about People Manufacturing their own. Thats happening. Were doing everything we can to keep our work force healthy so they can continue to care for patients. Were seeing the numbers go up across the state. It is spreading out from the puget sound region, as there is more testing available. Were seeing small rural hospitals caring for folks with coronavirus or potential coronavirus. I think thats a critical thing, too. Youve heard about the lack of testing supplies and testing kits to test folks. If somebody comes into the hospital, we have to treat them as positive until the lab result comes back. Sometimes thats taking two to eight days. It is really burning through some of the personnel protective equipment faster than we anticipated. Were at a critical point here. So, beth, talk to me about the hospital supply chain. How would you get these masks ordinarily, and how could you get them, as you say . Some hospitals are out. Some are down to a couple weeks, a couple days of masks left. Where are you getting the equipment . People are working on their own supply chains. The governor is putting the weight of the state behind getting the masks and protective equipment. We are hearing folks make calls to veterinary clinics, vet clinics, surgical centers. These are folks that had been doing elective procedures, as well. We appreciate that effort, taking care of the protective equipment in the state. What weve heard is they were not getting their normal supplies, the shipments were cut. In the rural areas, with smaller amounts anyway, they were cut by 40 and not werent getting them at all. Were in a dire situation. We want to protect workers, but we want patients who are continuing to come. What about on the testing side, beth . How soon are you expecting to see more tests . Obviously, this is a national and federal question. Every hospital in the country needs more tests so we can, first of all, begin to know, as you say, who actually has it, to get our arms around this problem. How soon are you expecting more tests to come to your state . We heard yesterday that there was a shipment that came in. I believe it was 8,000 kits. We expect well blow through the number pretty quickly. Theres going to be more need. I think everyone is ramping up their testing ability, but there is a shortage of the swabs to do the nasal swabs and the throat swab, as well. The new tests that are being developed, that may take less equipment to do, are certainly not coming soon enough here in Washington State. Before i let you go, on a human level, how are those heros, those doctors, those nurses, those First Responders, those Health Care Providers, how are they holding up through this . You know, i think everybody has been really stepping up to the plate. Weve actually seen more people showing up to work. Weve seen people volunteering to come back from retirement. I think everybody is rising to the occasion. Were in this for the long haul, and i think it is wearing on folks. Its scary when you cant have access to personal protective equipment, and you dont know what youre exposing yourself to. People are on the front lines. The administrators of the hospital are worried about keeping the doors open and providing care. We need health care after this is all over, and we need to make sure we provide the Financial Relief for the hospitals to operate. Theyre shutting down services, bringing down revenue. One administrator said they have 40 of the revenue and 150 of the expenses. It is a longterm situation here. We have to deal with the shortterm issue of supplies and the longterm issue of keeping doors open, as well. One rural hospital, at least, that is looking at shutting because of the outbreak already. They are heros, and well try to help you get the supplies you desperately need. Beth, Washington State Hospital Association senior Vice President. Thank you for being with us. Thank you. Back to questions around access to testing. Four nba tests, los angeles lakers, the celtics, 7 6ers, an the Denver Nuggets announced yesterday members of their organizations tested positive for coronavirus. Bringing the leagues tally to at least 14 positive tests. Ten testing positive are players, five of which have been publicly identified. The celtics marcus smart, jazzs rudy golbert. Mitchell. Actors, politics, and athletes have had quick and easy access to coronavirus tests, while other americans, including front line Health Care Workers and those with obvious signs of infection have been out of luck. The post notes the lakers and celtics are among at least eight teams that chose to test players for the coronavirus, despite a nationwide shortage in testing that led to accusations of preferential treatment for nba players. The criticism, including from mayor de blasio, who chastised nets for testing players with no symptoms, spurred adam silver to say the league was following the recommendations of Public Health officials. Teams were advised early to line up testing if needed. According to espn, february 29th, at the time california, new york, and washington documented spread of the virus, senior Vice President weiss instructed each team to open communication with public officials, Infectious Disease specialists to, quote, provide evaluations for covid19 in the case where there is suspicion of exposure to or symptoms. Because of those actions, if there was any reason to test a player, coach, or staffer for covid covid19, the nba was able to act quickly. Senior National Affairs correspondent at the Washington Post is joining us. Dig into this deeper for us. How exactly when First Responders, when hospital workers and Health Care Providers cant get the test, were the nba and other highprofile people easy to access them . Couple reasons. Many nba teams have longstanding relationships with medical centers in their states. It gives you access. If youre connected to a hospital already, you have medical professionals at all times, traveling with the teams. It makes a difference. In some cases, like when you saw the utah jazz in okalahoma, in oklahoma city, when one of their players, rudy gobert fell ill recently, they worked with state officials to get access to state laboratories. They were able to work with officials to get not only sameday tests but sameday test results. Obviously, it is a big difference. It was two days ago that a trainer ran out on the floor with the game with the thunder, pulled the teams off the floor, and then the nba suspended its season. Thats right. I had this question, circling back, about your reporting with the relationships that espn that the teams forged with hospitals and medical centers. How does that work exactly . I have a relationship with a doctor. Everyone here does. Are they paying these doctors for special access . Do you have contracts in place that give them preferential access to testing . How does that work, exactly . Im not sure about all the expense tensive details about ht is. Yes, i believe there is an ongoing financial relationship between these teams and, you know, some of the biggest hospitals in the country. Whether youre talking about l. A. , places like that. In all those instances, that i do have, you know they get appointments quicker. It is not quite the same thing as having a concierge position, which some americans have, but they do have a financial relationship, which makes it easier to get access. The nets said they did private tests and didnt disclose how they did it. It went outside of what is traditionally the option. The president was asked about the idea of the nba stars getting it. It was said, sometimes thats how things work. Beyond the sports leagues, what other industries, groups of people, celebrities, politicians perhaps, what other groups are, from your reporting, receiving increased access to the tests, when average americans cant . I think you identified kind of, again, the top ones would be certainly politicians who have access, Walter Reed Hospital here in washington, d. C. Again, some celebrities. Clearly, wealthy americans. I mean, this is, in many ways, a reflection of health care more broadly. Certainly, you have tremendous access to, you know, money and, therefore, physicians who are wellconnected. For example, are connected to institutions like the mayo clinic in minnesota. It is another element that is not necessarily celebrities but people who might be able to get. It is things were seeing. Great reporting from the Washington Post. Thanks so much. We appreciate it. Mika, nba clearly did have early access to tests and probably got ahead of the line. I will say, they pulled the teams off the court right away, and they set the example for all the other sports leagues. I think a lot of other institutions across this country. Were calling off the season until further notice. Yeah. That and colleges cancelling spring terms. Obviously, the Entertainment Industry taking a huge hit. Shutting things down. Thats sending the message to young people that social distance i distancing. People still dont get it. Were seeing stories of young people gathering still on beaches and everywhere. Now, we want to get to our election process, which i have a lot of concerns. Especially just watching this president s leadership. Jon meacham, you have a new opinion piece in the New York Times this morning entitled we cant let coronavirus postpone elections. In it, you write, in part, this. It will be tempting for leaders in various states to postpone their primaries. Inste instead, in this hour of crisis, state officials, understandably, scrambling to secure their people, should do all they can to hold their elections as soon as possible. The legitimacy of the eventual democratic nominee could dmeepe on it. History proceeds in times of uncertainty. There is something in the american character that long insisted on pressing ahead with democracys fundamental task. The casting of ballots and the choosing of leaders. No system, including the current one, is perfect, but we cant let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We need to have these kinds of conversations about the election honestly, rationally, and now. The sooner, the better. For k for chaos could lead to a nightmare possibility. President trump could take advantage of the process to delay the election. Jon meacham, this has been on my mind. Just having been a watcher of President Trumps behavior, his character, his moral compass, and the typines of leaders he i drawn to, trversus the leadersh hes not drawn to. Speaking of patterns, what we know about him. You are touching on something, and his behavior is reflecting it. He is pulling his hands out of the way saying, i want nothing to do with this. He is saying, its the governors job to do everything. You see a lack of responsibility and an almost in effect, he is not making choices that are moving our country forward in this crisis. It doesnt appear that he is being constructive in our time of need. I have to ask what might be behind that. Your piece raises the question. Its very hard constitutionally, what is supposed to be possible for a president to delay, the executive branch to delay a president ial election, only congress can do it. Even then, the president s term still expires on january 20th. All of that is from a normal world, the place we used to live in. Right. It is like a message in a bottle from america, as weve known it. I think these are real questions. I think there are rational, clearly rational concerns. Louisiana, georgia, kentucky, ohio, and others have postponed their primaries. There are ways to do this. Senator klobuchar, senator wi whiten have a bill. Every american should have access to a mailin ballot. Colorado has a very good system where they send out ballots, some weeks ahead of the general election. You can mail it back. You can drop it off. It is like curbside democracy. Again, to tie all of this together, were the United States of america. We can figure out how to hold our elections. It takes some thinking. Its not easy. But theres nothing more important. And if anybody is lulled at this point, to go to what you were saying, into thinking that there is not some nefarious thinking anywhere, you know, President Trump a year or so ago tweeted or earlier this year, retweeted Jerry Faldwell jr. , said President Trump should get two more years on his term because of the mueller investigation. President trump joked about blowing through the 22nd amendment. It is always a joke until it isnt, you know . It is always, oh, were hyperventilator, clutching our pearls and all that. Sometimes you clutch your pearls because there is a reason to clutch your pearls. I think that this is one of those moments. We just to look at it. Folks should see how states do this. We need to vote. Lets add something into this conversation. Jon is talking about the next election. A poll out this morning from abc news shows donald trump with a 55 Approval Rating for his handling of this crisis. Only 43 of the country disapproves. You can say thats one poll. Lets look at the same poll last week. The numbers were flipped. Hes picked up 12 points on his Approval Rating in this abc poll in the way hes handling coronavirus. We were just looking at that. The same poll says 72 of americans feel like it is this virus impacted their lives in some way, which is up from 46 the prefs wevious week. These are americans who seemingly are more confronting this, who are paying attention to it. To this point, the president received a bump, which i think would come as a surprise, perhaps, to a lot of people watching the show. Maybe it is simply reflective of the change in tone he did display earlier in the week. This was conducted the last two days. This is recent. He did seem more somber. He did sort of at least announce for about an hour. Then itd fade off. As weve been discussing, it went away as the week went on. We dont want to get distracted by how he is referring to the virus as the chinese virus, which is clearly his attempt to change the conversation. It is a shiny little object. Americans are hearing that. At least so far, doesnt seem to be bothering them, at least to the numbers. It has to be pointed out, this is he has made promises that have simply not come to reality. The drugs, he says, that are here to help americans. First of all, a, they might not work. B, if they do, they might be a year away. The hospital ships hes deploying to new york and the west coast, theyre not arriving for another month. The promises of masks and ventilators are deeply delayed and may not arrive for months or even a year to the capacity that hospitals need. This is not and now lets get to the economic part of this. The number of employment claims in the u. S. Is rapidly increasing as the department of labor released 281,000 new claims alone last week. A onethird increase from the week before. The department revealed that most of the jobs reporting unemployment were in the servicerelated industries. Transportation and warehousing. However, the Trump Administration is doing their best to avoid widespread panic about this. They have reportedly asked state labor officials to refrain from sending out exact figures. Again, this is about, like, the pr part . In an email obtained by the New York Times, the Labor Department instructed state officials to only, quote, provide information using generalities to describe claim levels. For example, very high or large increase. Until the total number of National Claims is released next thursday. Nationwide, states have been reporting some staggering statistics. In colorado, on monday and tuesday alone, nearly 11,000 people filed for unemployment. 15,000 people applied for Unemployment Benefits in new jersey on monday. More than 40,000 claims were made between friday and wednesday in connecticut. In ohio, the total number of requests jumped to 78,000 this week, compared to 6,500 two weeks ago. Pennsylvania was on track to see more than 100,000 claims on monday and tuesday. As the reality of last weeks unemployment claims reaching 281,000 settles in, economists are sounding the alarm bells of a worsening economy. Bank of america says we are already in a recession. Quote, jobs will be lost, wealth will be destroyed, and confidence depressed. The bank expects the Unemployment Rate to nearly double. It expects a total of 3. 5 million jobs will be lost in the Second Quarter alone. Goldman sachs analysts predict 2. 25 americans will have applied for unemployment this week, the highest on record. Claims may slow later in the week, but conservative estimates come in above 1 million, above the record of 695,000. Yesterday, the founder of the hedge fund Bridgewater Associates says he believes u. S. Corporations will lose as much as 4 trillion because of the coronavirus pandemic. Joining us now, Ranking Member of the Homeland Security committee, member of the Armed Services committee, democratic senator gary peters of michigan. My i michigan is home to automakers, gm chrysler, ford, closing factories and further raising economic concerns in the state, across the country, and around the world. Thank you for taking time with us today. Lets talk about the economic picture in your state and what you all there in washington can do to help those auto workers and others right down the line to restaurants, the suppliers, everybody who comes out of that supply chain into the automakers of michigan. Well, thats right. When you talk about closing down a plant, it is not just folks in the plant. It is a very, very long supply chain throughout our state. It is throughout the country when you think about auto manufacturer ii manufacturing. It is a key component broadly. It ripples through the chain. Wi where you see the biggest impact is with the smaller suppliers. Theyre not necessarily large or unionized. These are folks who can find themselves unemployed. There are business es surroundig where the plants are or other suppliers are. It is a cascading effect. Were seeing that already with our unemployment numbers in michigan. You quoted a number of numbers there. Ill be talking to the governor in about a half hour about this issue specifically. I think were seeing about a 550 increase in people coming into the unemployment office. It is why we have to strengthen that system. For us here in congress, we have to make sure the money is there to help folks who are in the unemployment system. We also have to expand it. Were dealing with gig workers, which is very real in our economy. Were dealing with Small Business owners who traditionally cant be in the unemployment system. Yet, when they lay off all their employees and dont have an income coming in, theyre in a very, very serious situation. Thats why ive certainly introduced legislation. Were working to try to get it in this next big package, that we expand the unemployment system, put more resources in there. Expand the numbers of people who can get in. Were doing it in a way, similar to what we do through fema and through national emergencies. When you have a hurricane, people are naturally displaced as a result of that and lose their jobs. You have to have immediate assistance, and it has to be as broad as possible. Today, we dont have a hurricane in one region of the country. We have a hurricane thats blowing all across the entire country. We have to make sure that our unemployment system is up to that. That includes resources for states. Theyre overwhelmed right now. Their systems are overwhelmed. They have to move to online in order to process that for safety reasons. They need resources from the federal government. We need to step up and do it immediately. Senator, we were talking earlier in the show about the arsenal of democracy at the dawn of world war ii, how so many of the plants that are in your state still were turned from making automobiles to making tanks and bombers. Right. Theres been some talk in the last couple days of using all those skilled workers you have in your state, putting them back to work, as the auto plants are temporarily shut down. Retrofitting maybe old auto plants and starting to make ventilators, for example. Have you heard that . Can you tell us any more about it . Certainly it is a discussion thats going on right now. Youre right about the arsenal democracy. Thats what we did in michigan and converted all the plants to the war effort. We have amazing engineers. We have the best workers. Highly skilled workers that can turn it around. It takes time. What they need are direct orders coming in. Now we have defense production act. The administration has to start saying, we need these businesses to start doing that. I also want to be realistic about it. You have to change production lines from auto assembly. It is not something you do ever overnight. It is something you should start. I was talking to the ceo of steelcase, furniture manufacturer here in michigan. He is ready to do that. Theyre not making Office Furniture or they are still doing it, but Office Furniture, demand is going down as people are working at home. He told me, we can make hospital beds, gourneys, partitions to keep people safely separated. Theyre willing to do that. They need direction from the administration. What do you want us to do . We can do it. In that case, going from Office Furniture to a hospital bed is a much quicker transition. Clearly, were going to need more hospital beds if the capacity in our hospitals is overwhelmed. Were going to need that type of kwi equipment. This takes time. We need direction from the administration. Start engaging the industrial and manufacturing muscle of this country, and we can do it. Senator, is our system up to this . You were talking about our system needing to be up to this. Bank of america, major banks are calling this a recession right now. What is it that keeps this from careening into a depression . Well, i think youve got to keep people working, as well. Thats important, that we understand that not everybody can necessarily go home and shelter in place. You still have to keep the economy moving. One thing im particularly concerned about when you think of critical supply chains, are things like food, Grocery Stores. We have to have people continuing to work. Youve got to continue to have some manufacturing going on. If you have complete shutdowns, i think it is important to realize, if you completely shut down industries, it is not like you can just push a button at some point in the future and start it up again, it is more complex than that. If you have a supply chain that has been deteriorating, you have Small Businesses that close down and cant reopen, some estimates is there is a large percentage of the Small Businesses, if they close, they wont be able to reopen. That creates havoc within a supply chain. When we do get through the Health Care Crisis aspect of it, you cant turn on a switch and get the economy running right away, as well. We have to be focused on that. While dealing with the Health Care Crisis, which is first and foremost. You have to deal with that, but you have to make sure youre helping families, make sure Unemployment Insurance is there, families arent lousing their homes or cant buy food. You have to keep other elements of the economy continue to work. We saw that in china. Outside of hubei province, a lot of the factories continued to work. They separated employees. They had partitions and found ways to continue to keep some of the economy going in parts of the country that werent impacted as much as it was in hubei. We have to do the same thing. Thinking strategically. Dealing with the disease and maintaining our economy, so when we do get through it, it can come back up fairly quickly. Senator, turning back to capitol hill, we have now proposals from your colleagues across the aisle to provide 1200 for some viindividuals, se tax cuts for businesses. Tell me if you think this package is going to be enough for your constituents, and whether itll come fast enough to provide the aid you say is desperately needed in your state. Were looking at that proposal that the republicans put forward. We have a lot of ideas within our caucus. Well have those conversations. First off, it has to be quick. Theres no question that aid has to come quickly. When you think of Service Employees now, with bars and restaurants shutting down, the hospitality industry. As you know, many folks who work in that industry are literally one paycheck away from being in a serious financial situation. They need that money. Thats why the unemployment system has to ramp up and be very quick and has to respond immediately. Workers also have to know that there are some longterm funding for them. Thats the only question. If you have a onetime payment, theres questions as to whether or not the folks who really need that money are going to get it in the republican plan weve seen. We have to flesh that out. Folks also need to have certainty as to how long the check is going to come. Unemployment system, 26 weeks, you have it coming. Thats something families need. With all of the chaos going on now, the uncertainty related to the health situation, people need to have some stability in their financial lives, so they know they can continue to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head. It has to happen very, very quickly. Thats where our focus has to be. All right. Senator gary peters, thank you very much. Well be watching closely. Lets bring in kurt anderson, a bestselling author of books, including fantasy land, how america went haywire. His forthcoming book evil gene yunus geniuses, the unmaking of america, a recent history, is coming in august. Youre focusing on president ial leadersh leadership, particularly trump, whom youve studied. From what youve seen, is he up to guiding us through a National Mobilization against this crisis, a mass remobilization of the private sector, and keeping supplies moving to people and keeping people working . Is he up to it . Well, it seems, so far, and its not surprising, that the short answer is no. One hopes that if he gives enough delegates enough authority to the people in charge of the respective parts of the federal government, he can be avoided and the problems he presents can be mitigated, frankly. Is he up to it . Obviously not. Obviously, he lost us several weeks of work on, for instance, getting the wartime footing in place, getting the testing kits out, all that. So, no, i dont think so. But its not just donald trump not being up for it. I think we as a country are not up for it. Because were certainly, for the last 40 years, we have the Republican Party has had skepticism of government, especially the federal government, and everything can be taken care of all of the time by the private sector. We are in a very bad place in terms of getting where we need to go. I think with people like, you know with good senators, governors like andrew cuomo, who seems to be doing a good job in new york state, i think we will prevail. But the help will not be coming from either, i dont think, donald trump nor the federal government. Because of this skepticism and the offloading of what our in other developed countries, delivering the financial responsibilities to whomever, whether the private sector or state and local governments who may or may not be the wherewithal to do what they need to do. Jon meacham . Kurt, youve written about fantasy land and the rise of imaginative, Wishful Thinking in american life. Have there been moments where weve broken through that, where there have been reality moments, in the proper sense of reality . As Eleanor Roosevelt said, we faced facts and got things right. Can you walk us through some examples of where we actually what we can learn from, where we havent been simply whistling into the graveyard . Yeah. Well, for our first couple of centuries, as you know, jon, the balance between the fantacists, zealots, believe whatever i want, were in balance with the grownups and the experts who actually ran the show. We had that balance, of the small d democratic believe whatever you want, and the grownups in charge when push came to shove. Like in the depression. Like in world war ii. And i think we are now i think it is unquestionable that we are at an Inflection Point not unlike the depression. Whether or not this becomes an official depression, well see. Certainly in terms of how the United States and our society is being challenged, and what well need to change, and how we will make people think differently about the role of government and the rest is, i think, at the level of the depression. So, yes, we managed the depression, thanks to Franklin Roosevelt and an overwhelmingly, as it happened, Democratic Congress that was elected with him, again and again. But it needs to be that kind of change. Since, i would say and since, essentially, the war, world war ii, that is, and eacertainly sie the paradigm shift that the reagan revolution amounted to in 1980, we havent had anything like this kind of challenge. So weve lost the infrastructure and the habits of mind, i think, to step up in this way. Now, again, the hopeful view of how this ends is that this, once and for all, clicks us into a clicks the paradigm shift back from what we decided was the way we should be proceeding 40, 45 years ago. All right. Kurt anderson, thank you very much. Jon meacham, thank you, as well. In terms of president ial leadership, if you value the facts, if you value leadership, by all estimates, this president is not good at his job. It is a struggle at this point. If you want to know more about that, i suggest watching his press conferences, like jon meacham said, from beginning to end. Watch how he is so loose with the facts and sometimes actually lies to the American Public in the middle of a pandemic. Also, read jon meachams piece in the New York Times and think about this as we move forward. Ahead, well talk to mayor bill de blasio, bracing for a surge of new cases in new york city. Hell have the latest developments straight ahead. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Back. The best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. The ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the Pressure Cooker that crisps. This is my body of proof. Proof i can fight moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. Proof i can fight psoriatic arthritis. With humira. Proof of less joint pain. And clearer skin in psa. Humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. 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Were going to get an update from mayor bill de blasio in just a moment. The state of new york is reporting five times as many cases as california. More than 5,700. The number of confirmed cases exploding as more people get tested. New york is not yet ordering residents to stay home, but, the governor has ordered 75 of the workforce in nonessential services to do so. Almost 70 of confirmed cases in new york state are in new york city, nearly 4,000. And were starting to hear more of the individual stories. Its not just the elderly. Its not just a rare occurrence here and there. Here are a few examples. In hartford, connecticut, four hartford cops, Hartford Police officers are recovering at home after they tested positive for the coronavirus. An example of how Law Enforcement can be impacted, feeling the strain as they take on additional roles at critical times. They have to conduct wellness checks for children stuck alone at home while parents are trying to work. In new jersey, one Single Family lost four members to the coronavirus, four. 19 other members of that same family from spouses to children have been tested and are now under quarantine. And in california, this jarring story, a 34yearold man who tested positive for the coronavirus after visiting disney world and universal in florida and then traveling through Los Angeles International airport earlier this month, just about two weeks ago, died yesterday at a hospital in pasadena. On march 7th, the man developed a cough. Less than two weeks later, he was dead. Hes 34 years old. He suffered from asthma as a child, and had sinus infections. Thats all the we know about what exactly were his health risks. New york city mayor bill de blasio is our guest next on morning joe. [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. 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And thats why i think i am where i am today and im very grateful for that. Get care like no other. Call us at Cancer Treatment centers of america. The best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. The ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the Pressure Cooker that crisps. How long did it take to do one . It takes about 15 to 20 minutes. Obviously when you first start out, its closer to 20 minutes. As you make several, you can go a lot faster. So thats a video that was released by the deacon Health System showing how to make your own face mask, how to sew them, along with the pdf of pattern to follow. A spokesperson for the hospital said health care said its instructions meet cdc protocols and the home made masks will be sterilized. Compare that yesterday to what the president and Vice President claimed yesterday at the white house briefing. Were working with governors to make sure the Health Care Providers and hospitals and clinics in this state are placing orders now that this tremendous increase in supply, particularly with industry masks, is now available. We will make sure they understand the supply greatly expanded thanks to Bipartisan Legislation and the accomplishment of the president. And the response by these companies is making more masks available. We will make sure Health Care Providers are purchasing those and the federal government will also make sure our stockpile reportedly reflects those increases as well. The president s question, when will the masks be ready . Because they need them like today . Theyre available them now. You enable, probably the best way to put it, the defense pact yesterday but you didnt pull the trigger on it. No, because i hope we wont need it. Youre getting a lot of calls from the Defense Department to pull the trigger on it. Whats the rational for that . First of all, the governors are supposed to be doing a lot of this work. They are doing a lot of this work. The government is not supposed to be out there buying vast amounts of item. Were not a shipping clerk. As with testing, the governor is supposed to be doing it. We will help out and help out wherever we can and we can buy in volume and in some cases great volume. The masks as an example, which were pretty a problem. We have helped out, and there are right now millions of masks being made. This is really for the lofl governors and people within the state depending on the way they divide it up. Theyll do that and theyre doing a very good job of it. Where you have a problem with ventilators, were working hard to try to find them. Nobody in their wildest dreams would have thought we would need tens of thousands of ventilators. This is very unique to this. A frightening set of statements from the president and Vice President of the United States, saying the masks are available now. They are not. Saying that drugs are approved now. They are not. The president basically sloughing this whole thing off on the governors and not pulling the trigger on the defense mobilization act that could move supplies quicker. Welcome back to morning joe. Its friday, march 20th. Still with us we have White House Reporter for the Associated Press jonathan lemire. Political writer for the New York Times nick comp sorry. Joe and i are here. Joe will be back monday. Joining us now is the mayor of new york city, joe de blasio. Mayor de blasio, what is the latest on new york city . The potential you may need to ask people to shelter in place. That has happened for the entire state of california. Mika, right now im so sorry to have to tell you, 4,000 cases in new york city, 26 people have died. We now constitute 30 of the coronavirus cases in the United States of america. 70 of the cases in the state of new york. We have to take really intense, radical action right away. That clip you played, thats not a commander in chief. The president is absent. We dont have masks. We dont have ventilators. I was very blunt with the people of my city yesterday that at the beginning of april we will run out of basic medical supplies because of the intense strain thats being put already on our hospitals by this crisis. We literally will not have the things we need to save peoples lives. So now we have to not only in new york but in many parts of the country, we have to go to a shelter in place model. Theres different names for it. In california theyre calling it stay at home. I think thats great as a message. But we have to recognize at this point were running out of objections in many places and new york is really the front line of this battle right now. And, mika, its stunning. The president has the defense production act. He could right now use that to mandate the creation of the manufacturer of these products. He could reactivate the United States military. Im certain of military is ready and willing to serve. And they could ensure these products get delivered where theyre needed. And none of that is happening. Im telling you in two weeks time or three weeks time, we will have nothing left and i have not gotten a hint of an answer from the federal government about when reply is coming. So what realistic requests you have for the governor and for the president right now, what can be done . I think the governors been doing a great job. I think hes been making the right decisions and trying to work with the resources that he has in the state that now unfortunately has the most cases in the nation. But the federal government has been absent. So, for example, weve repeatedly asked the secretary of health and Human Services to get us ventilators. We need 15,000 ventilators and we need them right away. We need millions of surgical masks, which are used constantly in a day. Not just by medical personnel but First Responders, Police Officers, firefighters. These are heroes. We need to keep them at work and say it over and over to the federal government. Nothing. The secretary for the veterans affairs, we have pleaded with him to open up the Veterans Administration hospitals, which have beds going unused, which have medical supplies and personnel, silent. We have a lot of those facilities in new york city. We need all hands on deck. Mika, what is driving me crazy, the military, i know the quality and the devotion of the United States military. If they got the order this hour to mobilize and get resources to the places in this country that are suffering, they would give it their all and they have the best logistical capacity of any organization in america. No one doubts that. They have Extraordinary Group of medical personnel and material and supplies that they can put on the ground, they know how to do it in a war. I assure you they can do it in their own country. But the order has not been given by the commander in chief because hes not acting like a commander in chief. He doesnt know how. He should get the hell out of the way and let the mayor do his job. Mr. Mayor, its willie geist. Thank you for your time on this busy morning. Let me be specific because this is a very important point of you not getting what you need from the government. We heard a version of that story from senator peters in michigan that hes got a bunch of companies saying what can we do . We will retrofit our factories and get supplies out to those who need them, like ours here in new york city. What youre telling is a story, the mayors the office calling the federal government, largest city in the country, 8. 5 Million People, and not getting a response from them . Are they not calling you back, or are they saying youre on your own . Willie, theyre basically telling us were on our own. We asked for supplies from the Strategic National stockpile. We got a paltry amount, a lot of small supplies because they have not replenished that stock pile. Right now trump and pence are weeks, if not months, behind this crisis. I made the analogy yesterday to Herbert Hoover, donald trump will go down in history as a president who acted like Herbert Hoover at the beginning of the great depression. Hes out of touch much whats happening to the American People, slow to act, unwilling to use his powers. What is happening here as we make the request, we get lip service and nothing comes. Meanwhile every hour were getting closer to that point our hospitals will be entirely full and we wont have the supplies. You cant effectively treat people if you dont have surgical masks, if you dont have a ventilator, you cant help someone in deep respiratory distress. Thats what happens with this disease. So theres a point at which as more and more cases grow, the medical community can do everything and anything, but they cant create supplies out of thin air. They cant treat someone without equipment. And this is like something you would think weve been talking about in an underdeveloped country or something from generations ago. Its about to happen here, not only in the nations largest city, its going to happen in a lot of other places if the federal government doesnt get involved. I think what were all going to have to do, willie, i think everybody on the front line of this crisis needs to move to shelter in place to protect ourselves, anything nonessential needs to stop and get home and stick with their families and social distance to the maximum. But like you said, any company that can start producing now, dont wait for the order from the federal government. The federal government doesnt exist at this point the way theyre accounting. Were on our own so lets act selfreliant as americans and every city, every city, produce what you can and share it with those in greatest need because until we have some evidence that our federal government is awake and conscious of the crisis, we really are are on our own at this point. Mr. Mayor, i take your point about the president s leadership and a lot of people in this country would agree with you. I want to be specific because its breathtaking and profounding to hear you say you, the largest mayor in this country, is reaching out to the federal government and theyre saying they cannot help you or calling you back. Who specifically do you ask . How does this work exactly . How are they not saying yes, were ramping up production, we understand the needs of you, largest city in this country, will get this stuff to you right away . Are you just hearing nothing . No, no. Willie, i reached out to Vice President pence several days ago. He sent me to secretary azar. We had a great conversation. Then all of my subsequent requests we heard nothing. Theyre not calling you back . Theyre not calling you back. Theyre not responding. Most important, willie, you know it too, there are no supplies moving. Theres no military mobilization. We would know, if i assure you, if we were receiveling supplies. We have not gotten the calls. Heres your equipment. And then i asked senator schumer, who has provided a lot of leadership, he suggested a marshal plan for our hospitals. I think thats exactly what we need. I asked the senator to also reach out on behalf of the people he represents. Hes trying. Hes not getting a response. Hes the minority leader of the United States senate. Hes doing his damnedest. We all know what things look like during a war time. I grew up from my family all of the stories of world war ii and what our nation was going through. You knew the president of the United States was kaulcalling t shots every moment. We knew things were happening. If were 30 of the cases in the nation and were about to hit a really bad wall in a few weeks, i can tell you, you come out on the street, come out on broadway with me right down the street from city hall, youre not seeing the United States military or trucks from the federal government delivering supplies. We got no word of any reply whatsoever. Mayor de blasio, your calls for action are quite clear. And stark. I would like you to continue with that stark reality and give it to us. Where are we headed at this point . What are we careening towards if theres no action . Mika, a lot of people are going to die who dont have to die. That is the blunt truth. It will start with dozens and it will go to hundreds and it will go farther than that when you talk about this country. The reality today, this minute, mika, is if the president does not act in a matter of days, because look at the trajectory of this crisis. You can see it clear as a bell now. The president does not act within days to maximize the use of a defense production act to put every company that can produce a ventilator or a surgical mask or any other necessary supply, put them on full 24 7 production, and guarantee that those products get to the front line, get to where the need is greatest, if he doesnt do that in the next few days, if he does not mobilize the United States military immediately, not only will hundreds die around the nation who didnt need to die, thousands will die around the nation who didnt need to die. People who will die waiting to get in to a hospital, people will die at a hospital because theres no equipment, or theres no medical personnel who could help them in time. There are doctors and nurses all over this country ready to serve when the need is greatest. Theres our military medical personnel who swore to their nation they would serve overseas in combat and were not asking that. Were asking them to be at the front line in their own nation. Theyre ready. They would do it in a heartbeat. They would serve us but the commander in chief wont give the order. Where is there a greater threat to american lives than the coronavirus right now right here in places like new york . And jet the military is being left on their bases. They dont want to be there. They want to be on the front line and the commander in chief will not give the order. Thats whats happening. Mr. Mayor, you said a couple minutes ago i think the governor has been doing a great job. Hes been complementary of you as well throughout this. You have one strong disagreement, as you said again, you should institute shelter in place in new york city at this point. Governor cuomo said its not a good idea that fear and panic is often worse than the virus itself. How would you rebut the argument from the governor of new york . Its not rebuttal. Hes doing a lot of great things. To his credit, while the president s been asleep, Governor Cuomo has been leading. I would say it this way, at this point things are moving so fast and what the state of california did i think was just a recognition of a necessity. We all hated it. I agree with the governor, last thing we wanted was panic. It pains me and i think it pains him to think about people, where will they work, how will they get a paycheck . These are serious issues. But Franklin Delano roosevelt said after pearl harbor, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. I think with this crisis so deep the fear is pervasive and honest in america. People are worried and confused. Why wouldnt they be given a disease of this magnitude that theyve never seen before. On the other hand, people are learning to deal with that fear. Americans are strong and resilient. New yorkers are tough. We can get ready for anything. I think the truth is to save lives and really try to slow down this horrible trajectory of this disease, shelter in place or whatever word you want to use for it, it is a smart strategy. It means people stay home. They can still go to the grocery, the pharmacy. They can still get basic services but the only people working are essential workers. Thats the basic concept. Thats what they did in san francisco. Thats what theyre doing in california. I think at this point its not only needed in our city, its going to be needed in states all over the country soon because if you do it and knock down the speed with which this disease is progressing and you give your hospitals a chance to prepare, a chance to deal with the massive incoming look, our hospitals will be like m. A. S. H. Units soon. Ment im not making it up. Ive heard this from the leaders of our Public Health care system. They literally have said to me, do not expect the medicine were used to in civilian times. This will be mass production medicine. They will have to serve vast numbers of people very quickly. Battlefield conditions. Our Health Care Providers are our heroes also and they will answer the call. New york city the last 48 hours over 2,000 retired medical personnel have answered the call to come back out of retirement to protect people. Were going to have heroes who come forward. But theyre not going to be able to do business as usual. They understand it. And so i think its going to be necessary, willie, not only here but all over this country to institute shelter in place in many, many places to try to fight back against the coronavirus. Mr. Mayor, its jonathan lemire. I wanted to focus a little more on the idea of shelter in place or whatever terminology ends up being adopted. There are obviously a lot of guidelines and restrictions in place on new yorkers. The governor yesterday said no business should have more than 25 of its employees there and so on. I have two questions for you, how much more stricter do these guidelines need to be in your estimation to be effective . More than that, how will this be enforced . Will the nypd be on the streets perhaps in taking people back home if they violate this . Jonathan, the simple answer to me is, again, i think people know what time it is. For weeks and weeks through the media, theyve gotten really clear information about how bad this crisis is. The question of panic i think is reduced. This is to answer your point, i think people will abide by this a lot more than is recognized. San franciscos been doing it and surrounding counties for days now. Im getting direct feed information from my colleagues out there. The level of adherence to the Public Health order. There they put a Public Health order now. Its the right methodology. Its not a suggestion, its an order. Californians are abiding by that because they understand what time it is. They understand its about protecting themselves and their families. Point one, i think people are there. When we close bars and restaurants here in new york city, you can understand a bar owner, Restaurant Owner wanting to see maybe i can get a little more done. No. Overwhelmingly they needed abided by it. We sent out inspectors to make sure everyone was closed down, just dogs delivery aing deliver takeout. In all of new york city we had six, six instances where everybody did not abide by the rule. When theyre given it, yes, they will honor it. And, yes, we will have the nypd out to make sure and a positive way. Were not trying to be draconian. Were trying to save lives and protect people. Nypd is out in communities all the time. If they see people gathering, they will say, obviously, this is not a time to gather. They will give warnings to people, if youre out at the Grocery Store, thats part of life. Even if italy, people still go to the Grocery Store and pharmacy. This is better than that, little freer than that. But its still clear, when you can stay inside, you need to stay inside. You stay among your family, not socially interact with everyone else. You need six foot distance from other people. In the end anything nonessential needs to go right now. Anything nonessential business, theres no reason on earth in the areas bearing the brunt of this crisis that any nonessential business should be operational because it simply, ununfortunately, leads to the pred of the disease. Mr. Mayor, its nick confessore. The one piece of good news you have is new york city now has an elevated testing capacity. Theres been a lot of confusion for young people when to get tested, how to get tested and which symptoms should trigger them to get tested. Can you lay out for our viewers in new york today as clear as possible when to seek testing and from where and whom and how . Absolutely. We have more testing but nowhere near what we need. Weeks and weeks ago we in many parts of the country may have been able to get ahead of this with a real pervasive amount of testing. That opportunity was missed. South korea used very aggressive testing and you see how extraordinary their experience has been in terms of limiting this disease. At some point i would like to see this country get to that point soon. Heres the reality, we have more testing but its still rationed, if you will. It is still limited. It goes this way. If you feel sick, you go home and stay home. If you are someone who has anybody in your life who is over 50 with preexisting conditions and that means cancer, diabetes, serious lung disease, serious Heart Disease or compromised immune system, anyone in your life over 50 with those conditions and anyone over 70 even relatively healthy should not be near anyone sick with anything. Those folks in those really high priority categories need to be totally isolated if anyone who might be sick. They need the most social isolation. Now to the question of the specific testing protocol. Lets say you nick, or me, start to feel bad. Stay home. After three, four days if your symptoms are getting better, than just ride it out. If your symptoms are not getting better, getting worse, call a doctor. The doctor will then direct according to your specific situation whether its time to come in. They can test you fist for typical diseases to see if they can rule out coronavirus. If it proves thats not the case, then you will get tested but with reference to your level of vulnerability, the first people that need testing are the folks who are older and folks who have preexisting conditions. So its all going to be done by priority. Until we have a huge amount of testing, everything has to be about who is most vulnerable. They go first. Were setting up Testing Centers in all of our public hospitals. Its a phonein system. Its by reservation. Its by priority. And a doctor determines if you have a priority situation. Nick, the thing thats being missed so often, and i hope people hear this really in their hearts. 80 of those who contract this illness will have symptoms similar to cold or flu. They will ride it out. They will have no lasting impact. Basically if youre younger and healthier, your chances are overwhelming you will have a very mild experience. We know those folks will be okay. But the 20 who are older and or have those preexisting conditions, and we are seeing it particularly in folks in their 70s or 80s, thats where were losing so many people. Thats the greatest danger. Those are the folks that will end up hospitalized, 20 or so hospitalized, and some will be in grave danger if we cannot provide them sufficient care and we will lose a lot of people if that care is not there for them. Thats the realization people have to just understand tests are being prioritized and rationed because thats what our medical leaders believe has to happen at this point. Well, and because we dont have enough. Correct. Mr. Mayor, quickly, because i know other people need you. Given where were headed, do you have any concerns about the election process . Its impossible to do a traditional election in this environment. My prayer is this crisis will recede in time that we can have a proper election in november. I think i think the timeline suggests we can do that. Any primaries, local elections, they have to go to a mailin system or online system. We have to keep it secure but we need to innovate that because people cannot congregate at poll sites at this point until this crisis subsides. Mayor bill de blasio, thank you so much. We will talk to you again soon, we hope. Thank you. Still ahead on morning joe, we will be getting to a lot more of this. Philly, i ju willie, i just want to get your reflections on this. The mayor was pretty drastic in his calls for help from the federal government. We have to take intense radical action now and he described a pretty bleak outcome if we dont see leadership from the top. You are seeing local leadership. You saw in very strong terms there and you see frustration and even desperation, not just for the mayor but from senator gary peters earlier, democrat from michigan, who was saying we need your help on the city side or from the senators side in michigan, i have companies that want to provide help but the thing they have from common is neither are getting any guidance or leadership from the top. And to underline how dire the need is for all of these medical supplies, you will think im making this up but its true, were just learning television medical dramas like greys anatomy are providing masks, gowns and booties, taking them from their props departments, and delivering them to hospitals in southern california. Taking them to fire stations in southern california. Shoots in georgia, which a lot do nowadays, taking their supplies to hospitals in atlanta. These are Television Shows emptying their props departments to help get us through this crisis. Thats how bad it is in hospital. Thats how desperate it is. I know we are where we are now and theres not a lot we can do about whats happened in the past and it sort of maybe is not even productive to talk about it. But this administration knew about this in early february, in january. This could have been prevented. This reality that youre just describing to have been prevented. We are now in territory where because our president and our government didnt act on very clear warnings, on very clear science, were literally stuck flatfooted, fighting a pandemic. Still ahead on morning joe President Trump says he doesnt know anything about his administrations dismantling of the National Security councils Global Health security office, which he dismantled. Up next, well talk to someone who does, an expert who left government after that purge. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. So now we have to not only in new york but many parts of the country, we have to go to a shelter in place model. Theres different names for it. In california theyre calling it stay at home. I think thats great as a message but we have to recognize at this point were running out of options in many places, and new york is really the front line of this battle right now. E. 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In the arms. Ok. Yep. Transfer your Service Online in a few easy steps. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Xfinity makes moving easy with twohour appointment windows, even on nights and weekends. Go to xfinity. Com moving to get started. You said that you dont take responsibility, but you did disband the White House Pandemic Office and officials that were working in that office left this administration abruptly. What responsibility do you take to that . And officials that worked in that office said the white house lost valuable time because that office was disbanded. What do you make of that . I think its a nasty question because what weve done, and tony had said numerous times, we saved thousands of lives because of the quick closing. And i didnt do it. We have a group of people. I can ask perhaps the administration but i can ask perhaps others about that because i didnt know anything about it. Joining us someone who does know something about it, beth cameron who served as senior director for National Security and biodefense on the security council. Whats been known as white house pandemic prevention office. Through the early months of the Trump Administration. Shes now Vice President for biological programs and policy at the Nuclear Threat initiative. Also with us the former director for medical and biodefense preparedness policy at the National Security council, dr. Luciana borrio. Shes now Vice President at incue tell, who helps the u. S. And defense communities identify and adapt cuttingedge technology. My thanks to you both for being with us. Beth cameron, you wrote for the Washington Post on march 13th, i ran the White House Pandemic Office. Trump closed it. And you talked about the mission of the office. The mission was to do Everything Possible within the vast powers and resources of the u. S. Government to prepare for the next disease outbreak and prevent it from becoming an epidemic or pandemic. You said you were mystified when the white house dissolved the office, leaving the country less prepared for pandemics like covid19. What opportunities were missed without this office . What could have been avoided . Thank you so much. I think we did lose valuable time in closing the office. So the goal of the office was really to have a senior level senior director official whose only job it was to handle pandemic threats, are and that was a lesson that we learned from the ebola pandemic. We were obviously devastated by ebola. But as unprepared as we were for that, we knew we were even less prepared for Something Like covid19, which were now facing. I think the office would have been able to send out Smoke Signals earlier. I think the office would have been able to coordinate the whole of government response more quickly. One of the roles is work directly with domestic agencies, global agencies, coordinate with Global Partners around the world and really help to identify problems before they became solutions before they became issues that were much harder to solve. So i absolutely think it would have helped. Doctor, same question for you. Especially as it pertains to preparedness on the National Security level. In a way this pandemic is clearly a National Security issue. What opportunities do you think were lost given the fact that a lot of the top scientists in the preparedness area were not in the administration anymore . I think its important to appreciate that most of the work by the defense is done by departments and agencies. My job was made easier because i could count on those officials day in and day out. I know much has been made about the restructure of the office, and i think in retrospect, it would have been better to have kept it intact but its also fact the white house could reorganize it better than it thinks best for its current structure. So the decision was made. All i can say is my work continued. We continued to produce important coordination of policy, including an executive order on influenza vaccines that was signed by President Trump last year and the order actually is about modernizing our flu Vaccines Manufacturing enterprise to bring it to Domestic Production using modern technology. So our big of the worry really not that work didnt continue but the champions say to be able to make sure that the order is actually executed in the departments and agencies. The most important thing for having a champion at the white house who really will, you know, keep an eye on the ball and see things through. Beth, its willie geist. We appreciate you being on with us this morning. I would point out dr. Thoun fauci himself said last week in congressional testimony talking about the office you used to lead, quote, it would be nice if the office was still there. But we have two great innovative finds in front of us. Youre not in the administration at this point. Thats too bad. But here you are. Lets look forward. What can we be doing right now . We just heard the pleas from major bill de blasio for medical supplies so hospitals can continue their business and keep people safe and healthy and treat those who do come in with covid19. From where you sit right now, what should the government be doing this morning at this minute right now . So i think you heard from mayor de blasio quite clearly, personal protective equipment supplies and supplies for test kits are the things we are hearing most from state and local officials. I do agree with him we should be implementing the defense production act immediately at this time. I think we are at that point. I think we need to show state and local officials that theres help coming and coming very quickly. It seems theres a little disconnect between some of the statements about personal protective equipment and supplies and whats actually happening at the state and local level. But i also want to point out the other thing that i think is missing and the u. S. Government could actually be leading on is a Global Response. So these commodities, personal protective equipment, nasal swabs, ventilators, these are Global Commodities and i think a Global Response with the u. S. In the lead would make us safer here in the United States in the end. Dr. Borio, jonathan lemire. The New York Times had a reporting yesterday about a series of simulations the ddhs ran last year, the Trump Administration last year ran that played out an outbreak of a respiratory virus that began via in china, traveled around the world and ended up in the United States, killing in their estimation almost 600,000 people. These sort of tabletop recognizes are relatively common. It seems obvious to all of us watching stowed the Trump Administration did not learn the needed lessons from those. How much valuable time was lost then . And Going Forward what sort of steps sadly, this is not going to be the only pandemic we see. Theres even, doctors say, a reasonable chance coronavirus springs back to live with a vengeance this fall. What other preparations do they need to take once this immediate crisis dies down . I know about tabletop exercises that we know pandemics are a threat since at least 1918. This has been a recurring theme in every administration. We had our own pandemic in 2009, which posed significant challenges. Were very lucky because it wasnt the most lethal strain. But we learned quite a bit from that experience, including the fact that these types of viruses circled the globe quickly and are very difficult to contain through border measures alone. I think whats really important to do now is keep an eye on the long term shortterm steps to stake, midmaterial and long term. We cant lose sight of the fact everything were doing today, great sacrifice of social distancing and hunkering down of folks in households, these are tough measures but the end goal is a vaccine that is effective and broadly deployed before we have a second wave. Its hard to believe but thats likely whats going to happen in the fall and wintertime. We need to expedite that greatly and we need to develop vaccine therapeutics quickly. We must preserve the Hospital System as much as we can. Its already being significantly stressed. These interventions were taking right now, social distancing, the goal really is to to try to help preserve the frontal system because it is required to save lives. We cant lose sight of the longterm goals now. Our thanks to dr. Beth cameron and dr. Luciano borio, thank you very much. Just putting a frame around what dr. Borio just said, a second wave is likely to happen, following winter, which is just frightening. Up next, unemployment numbers on the rise and the numbers are staggering. Some say we are already in a recession. Could a depression be next . How quickly . We will talk about that and some specific tips for your personal finances. Keep it right here on morning joe. [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. The ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the Pressure Cooker that crisps. We find a way to get through it. Is faced with adversity, its not about taking care of ourselves, but taking care of each other. Checking on our neighbors. Lending a hand where we can. And just being there. Its the sum of the small parts that make a big difference. To help you get through this, we promise to do ours. 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Environment where we saw initial job claims go up by 70,000 last week. Were talking about an environment where the treasury secretary said potentially 20,000 20 unemployment. Do you believe that . Thats part of the bill act of hell is coming kind of process . Look, i believe were going to have massive unemployment very, very quickly. And i hope that all of our predictions are wrong. But you cannot work today. Former National Economic Council Director gary cohn on cnbc yesterday. The number of unemployment claims in the u. S. Is rapidly increasing as the department of labor released 281,000 new claims alone last week, one third one third increase from the week before. Bank of america says we are already in a recession. And that jobs will be lost. Wealth will be destroyed and confidence depressed. The bank expects the Unemployment Rate to nearly trouble and a total of 3. 5 million jobs will be lost in the Second Quarter. Joining us now, ceo of hermoney. Com, and valuable contributor jean schachtsky, shes here to walk us through financial concerns you might be having during Uncertain Times and how to best plan for them. Lets back up. After hearing gary cone a cohen reality things are just beginning to happen really fast. Youre absolutely right, mika. Were getting new information in realtime. An npr poll out just yesterday shows one in five households has already experienced either a layoff or a loss in work hours, thats real pain for real people. We learned a lot of lessons in 2008 that are going to help us today. But first is if you have payments that youre unable to make, whether they are mortgages, utilities, there are banks and other institutions that are willing to work with you at this point but youve got to get in touch with them. You cant just not deal with it. Second, we think there will be some money coming from the government. Were waiting to see what that looks like. But we have gotten a pause on taxes that will be owed. You still have to file by april 15th, but you are not going to have to pay until the middle of july. So thats some respite for some people as well. If you listen to experts like gary cohn, who by the way worked in the Trump Administration, it appears were headed to economic calamity. I cant think of another time where all businesses just stopped. Is there advice what about the Small Business owner who has the local restaurant . They cant pay no, absolutely not. Again, things are moving in realtime. Yesterday i know you spoke about the proposal Andrew Ross Sorkin put out in the New York Times, the bridge closed to corporations. Theres money in all of these packages for the Small Business administration to start to make loans. I have been talking to lenders all week. Credit unions in particular have the flexibility because they dont have the profit motivation that the big banks do to satisfy shareholders, they continue to lend during the crisis of 2008 for people who needed money in realtime. You can look there. You can look to your local community banks, and keep an eye on the sba as that money starts to move. Were talking about 250 billion for sba loans. Were not there yet but i do believe that its coming. What about people who are worried about their 401 k s and savings accounts for college . Look, im right there with you. Our 401 k s have taken an enormous hit. Now if we Pay Attention to history its not the time to sell out of your 401 k s. The people who got crushed in 2008 were the people who sold at the bottom and didnt get back in as the economy recovered. If you need cash, the better thing to do rather than raiding your 401 k , pulling money out of your 401 k , stop making contributions to your 401 k , take that money to use to tied you over during this period of time. 23 youre a retiree and need money for your portfolio, rather than selling stocks at this point, i would look to sell bonds at this point. Again, we are in an unprecedented period, as you said, and were going to have to get strategic and crafty about whats actually necessary in terms of spending money and what can wait. Much more from jean chatzky at know your value. Com. Thank you very much, jean. Its not just hospitals on the front lines of this pandemic. Also paramedics and firefighters who are the First Responders. Congress passed a more than 8 billion emergency goil combat the coronavirus but none of the money goes directly to First Responders for the protective gear and supplies they desperately need. Joining us now, assistant to the general president of the International Association of firefighters, jim brinkley. Thanks for taking the time this morning. We appreciate it. Weve talked so much about whats going on in the hospitals and what Health Care Providers need in those hospitals in terms of equipment and gear. What do your fire stations need this morning . We need that protective gear more than anyone else. We are the first link in the Public Health care chain, and when we lose the ability to protect that initial first link, were in a dangerous situation. We received our first call on february 28th when we learned 17 of our members in Washington State were quarantined. To date we know that more than 1,000 of our firefighters, emts and paramedics have been quarantined and more than 60 of them have tested positive. And i want to be clear. Thats with severe underreporting. Thats coming from 700 of the 30,000 Fire Departments across north america. Look, we wouldnt dream of sending a soldier or a Police Officer to the front lines without their bulletproof vest. We wouldnt hand them a raincoat and say this will at least stop the bullet. Sorry we dont have the good stuff. Were hearing guidance from the cdc we should wear a surgical mask and this ridiculous claim that we can wear bandannas to protect ourselves. When you lose the ability to protect the protector, thats an imminent threat. And i want to be clear about this, too. Its not just about the firefighters, pair medics and emts. Its ghe American People. Think about calling 911 for a heart attack, stroke or other emergency in your home and an emt that shows up just came from treating a covid19 patient and they werent wearing the proper protective equipment. Thats the risk we face. We heard the outrage. We saw the images when there was no toilet paper on the shelves. Imagine dialing 911 and they tell you were out of firefighters because theyre in quarantine. We need to make sure that we get this gear to the firefighters, paramedics and emt that are on the front lines. Its critically important. The spending bill that was passed, fantastic. Lets get the ball rolling but lets get it down to the local Fire Departments that need it critically right now. As you know, jim, some of the Fire Departments across this country are being told when a 911 call comes in, youve got to screen and ask if this is a covid19, a coronavirus call, and they redirect some of those calls so the firefighters are not exposing themselves if they dont have that equipment. Is that a recommendation youd make nationwide that firefighters not respond to coronavirus calls . Absolutely not. Were the first line of defense out there in our nation and we need to respond to these calls but we need the proper protective equipment to do that. What were asking our members to do is to take extra precautions. Keep that distance when evaluating a patient. Limit the number of emts, paramedics and firefighters that come into direct contact with that patient. In situations where were doing the most dangerous procedures, we need to make sure we have the n95, the protective gowns, goggles and gloves. Were going to continue to respond. I want to make that clear. We dont back down. Well continue to respond when the call comes out, but we need to make sure that our workers are healthy and safe so they can do that. Jim, its jonathan lemire. The firefighters across the country are coming into contact with people who have the coronavirus. And you expressed fears of many being quarantined. Already, particularly in the early days and weeks of this crisis, perhaps before some of the National Restrictions or guidelines were put out there, how many firefighters do you have a sense how many have been exposed have been quarantined . Are there particular municipalities where theres a shortage now of firefighters because they had to be taken offline because theyve had possible contact with someone who has the virus . We know the reporting is very limited at this point, as i mentioned. 700 Fire Departments reporting more than 1,000 firefighters in quarantine. So if you extrapolate that out to the 30,000 Fire Departments that exist in this country you can do the math. Its a great number of firefighters offline. In washington, d. C. , more than 100 firefighters are in quarantine right now. Hardhit areas like Washington State. Weve heard reports of more than a quarter of the Fire Department being offline right now in quarantine. What were asking our members to do is to make sure that theyre doing everything they can to protect themselves. And they are. Theyre doing a fantastic job. We just need the equipment to do that. Were in the early days of this. Were already talking about shortages. This is only going to get worse if we dont get the equipment in the hands of those who need it the most. Its great to stand at the podium and talk about 5 Million Masks being ordered. Were going to need 3. 5 billion masks to deal with this pandemic. Its great to do a stimulus package, but if that money doesnt go directly to the firefighters, emts and paramedics in your community, were at great risk. Your message is clear and strong. Were so grateful to the work firefighters always do, and especially in this time. Jim brinkley with the International Association of firefighters. Jim, thanks so much. We appreciate it. Nick, the message is consistent for the last three hours of our show. Whether youre talking to a mayor or head of the Firefighters Union or experts on pandemics. These supplies have to get to hospitals and First Responders now. We have to act now. And more importantly, the worst is yet to come. It will be even worse if we dont act quickly. Now this was a hollywood movie, this would be the part of the movie where the astronomer sees the asteroid in the telescope hurdling toward the earth. Well see if the federal government responds today. And as we cloerse, stay in touch. Stay separate and to those on the front lines, firefighters, police and Health Care Workers, thank you so much. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a short break. Now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. The ninja foodi Pressure Cooker, the Pressure Cooker that crisps. I wanted my hepatitis c gone. I put off treating mine. Epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. Whatever your type, epclusa could be your kind of cure. I just found out about mine. I knew for years epclusa has a 98 overall cure rate. I had no symptoms of hepatitis c mine caused liver damage. 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