Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200124

Well, it is, for an administration that commits unforced errors left and right every day, and for a president who does that, that was yet another unforced error, and you can bet that hes going to be hearing those words thrown back at him throughout the campaign and even, you know, a week before election day. It matters that the president said that, hey, hes never going to touch Social Security and medicare, but now, of course, he is open to it. He is thinking about it. I was curious. I want to just get a quick, a quick feel of where we are in the impeachment trial from David Ignatius. David, you certainly remember watergate. Remember the buildup to it, but, of course tls of course, there was never a trial. You remember the trial of bill clinton. How do you compare in contrast where we are now in history to two other impeachment proceedings . One that went to trial and one that didnt . Joe, i think theres no question that theres been more repetition than in terms it of drama, this impeachment trial in the senate has been less highvoltage than the previous ones that you mentioned. I think the house managers have been systematic, and i thought that the lead manager, adam schiff, if you stayed up late enough last night, you heard a powerfully emotional, direct statement to the senate, you know donald trump. You know what hes like. You know that he will not put the countrys interests first, because youve seen it. The best, i thought the best presentation hes given since the trial started, because it was the least scripted. One of the gop senators said, this sounds like groundhog day. Its like over and over again. Yes, there was repetition of a lot of the details, but when the house managers let themselves be emotional and speak to the heart of the case, joe, i thought this was as powerful as what i remember from watergate and certainly from the clinton trial. And jon meacham, i was, of course, in my kitchen yesterday listening, overhearing the impeachment trial. Up know how lavish my lunches are. How many coarses i have. To eat is to live. Sitting there, true story, cutting my Peanut Butter and jelly sandwich. And you had the staff serving you, right . Yeah, of course. A white tablecloth. Well, of course. As i was cutting my Peanut Butter and jelly sandwich, on the paper towel, i i pick it up and im starting to walk back over to the couch to continue to and just with it as back ground noise, i sat and asked myself why are we even doing this . The republicans know exactly what donald trump did. They know that what he did was wrong. Like, the majority of americans, they know its wrong. Like the overwhelming majority of americans, they know Mitch Mcconnell is trying to rig this entire process. He said hes not impartial. Lindsey graham said hes impartial. I mean, so why are we doing this when everyone knows the president is guilty as charged . Everybody Everybody Knows he did it. The only question, jon, is, its whether what he did, the actions that he committed, that were wrong, are impeachable or not, and its remarkable that the republicans are actually playing this line, and one senator actually going out in the middle of the trial yesterday and attacking a war hero in defense of donald trump. Yeah. And that senator represents the same state that in 197374 had howard baker playing the role he played when the president of his party was under siege, and it was senator baker who while imper mefect framed the key question and is unto this hour a model, and an ever distant hour, like the green light in gatsby at the end of daisys dock, just always out of reach to get that kind of sensibility, which is what youre talking about. And were doing it, because at least so far the constitutional structure has worked to put these issues, put these facts, i should say, issues can be interpreted one way or the other. Facts are stubborn things, as adam said, put these facts before the last jury that the founders envisioned. You know, aaron burr of all people said that if a demagogue rises in america, the last place to stop him is on the floor of the United States senate. And its almost certainly not going to happen, and i think that one of the great mysteries of the age, the Great Questions of the age, is, why the Republican Party in this case suspended, rented out their souls and their reason. Uhhuh. In tsingular pursuit of a ma who basically hijacked their party four years ago and using it as a means to a personal end. Their souls, their duties, and mika, their constitutional oath. Yeah. They are constitutionally empowered by article 1 of the United States constitution, and that is to hold those who run the article 2 branch of government accountable. Again, it may not be impeachment, and maybe maybe republicans will decide that its censure, but for them to make the country go through this for trying to prove something that literally Everybody Knows donald trump did. They know right. Because we have all of the Text Messages were e have a s we phone calls all the back and forth between the people and we have the testimony. We know that donald trump tried to extort a foreign leader, to get that foreign leader to interfere in american elections. Specifically, his american election. We know that instead of just admitting to that and say, yes, its very bad. Maybe we censure him, dont impeach him, we know that republicans instead of actually admitting what every american knows is true, theyve decided instead theyre going to attack war heroes. Theyre going theyre going to actually spout russian propaganda that they were warned not to repeat. Theyre going to shame themselves, like Lindsey Graham, a man who said donald trump should be run out of the Republican Party and was not fit to be commander in chief, and that the best way to make America Great again was to tell donald trump to go straight to hell. People like Lindsey Graham who now are facing a primary election in a couple of months. They now shamed themselves. Instead of just admitting to what we all know, and then having a good, reasonable debate on whether that is, in fact, an impeachable offense, but they just cant get there, because theyve shirked their constitutional duty. Well, lets look at day two of the democrats case against President Trump, which focused on the abuse of power charge. What youre talking about here. With the house prosecutors looking to show how trumps withholding of aid to ukraine violated the constitution. There were a number of strong moments throughout the day, which we will get to. For now, here are Closing Remarks from lead democratic congressman adam schiff. Take a listen. This brings me to the last point i want to make tonight. Which is when were done, we believe that we will have made the case overwhelmingly of the president s guilt. That is, he has done what hes charged with. He withheld the money. He withheld the meeting. He used it to coerce ukraine to do these political investigations. He covered it up. He obstructed us. Hes trying to obstruct you. And hes violated the constitution. But i want to address one other thing tonight. Okay, hes guilty. Okay, hes guilty. Does he really need to be removed . Does he really need to be removed . We vanhave an election coming u. Does he really need to be removed. Hes guilty. Is there really any doubt about this . I mean, do we really have any doubt about the facts here . Does anybody really question whether the president is capable of what hes charged with . Nobody is really making the argument, donald trump would never do such a thing. Because, of course, we know that he would, and of course we know that he did. Its a somewhat different question, though, to ask, okay. Its pretty obvious whether we can say it publicly or we cant say it publicly, we all know what were dealing with here with this president , but does he really need to be removed . And this is why he needs to be removed. Donald trump it chose Rudy Giuliani over his own intelligence agencies. He chose Rudy Giuliani over his own fbi director. He chose Rudy Giuliani over his own National Security advisers. When all of them were telling him this ukraine 2016 stuff is kooky, crazy, russian propaganda, he chose not to believe them. He chose to believe Rudy Giuliani. That makes him dangerous to us, to our country. That was Donald Trumps choice. Now, why would donald trump believe a man like Rudy Giuliani over a man like Christopher Wray . Okay . Why would anyone in their right mind believe Rudy Giuliani over chr Christopher Wray . Because he wanted to, and because what rudy was offering him was something that would help him personally, and what Christopher Wray was offering him was merely the truth. What Christopher Wray was offering him was merely the information he needed to protect his country, and its elections, but thats not good enough. Whats in it for him . Whats in it for donald trump . This is why he needs to be removed. Now, you may be asking, how much damage can he really do in the next several months before the election. A lot. A lot of damage. Now, we just saw last week a report that russia tried to hack or maybe did hack burisma. Okay . I dont know if they got in. Im trying to find out. My colleagues on the intel committee, house and senate, were trying to find out, did the russians get in . What are the russian plans and intentions . Well, lets say they got in. And lets say they start dumping documents to interfere in the next election. Lets say they start dumping some real things they hacked from burisma and some fake things they didnt hack from burisma but they want you to believe they did. Lets say they start blatantly interfering in our election again to help donald trump. Can you have the least bit of confidence that donald trump will stand up to them and protect our National Interests over his own personal interests . You know you cant. Which makes him dangerous to this country. You know you cant. You know you cant count on him. None of us can. None of us can. What happens if china got the message. Now, you can say, well, hes just joking, of course. He didnt really mean china should investigate the bidens. You know thats no joke. Now, maybe you could have argued three years ago when he said, hey, russia if youre listening, hack hillarys emails. Maybe you could give him a freebie and say, he was joking, but now we know better. Hours after he did that, russia did, in fact, try to hack hillarys emails. Theres no mulligan here when it comes to our National Security. So what if china does overtly or covertly start to help the Trump Campaign . Do you think hes going to call them out on it . Or do you think hes going to give them a better trade deal on it . Colonel vindman said, here, right matters. Here, right matters. Well, let me tell you something. If right doesnt matter, if right doesnt matter, it doesnt matter how good the constitution is. It doesnt matter how brilliant the framers were. It doesnt matter how good or bad our advocacy in this trial is. It doesnt matter how wellwritten the oath of impartiality is. If right doesnt matter, were lost. If the truth doesnt matter, were lost. The framers couldnt protect us from ourselves if right and truth dont matter. And you know that what he did was not right. You know, thats what they do in the old country, that colonel vindmans father came from, or the old country that my greatgrandfather came from. Or the old countries that your ancestors came from, or maybe you came from. But here, right is supposed to matter. Its whats made us the greatest nation on earth. The constitution can protect us, and if not right doesnt matter any more and you know you cant trust this president to do whats right for this country. You can trust he will do whats right for donald trump. Hell do it now. Hes done it before. Hell do it for the next several months. Hell do it in the election, if hes allowed to. This is why if you find him guilty, you must find that he should be removed. Because right matters. Because right matters. And the truth matters. Otherwise, we are lost. Wow. What a strong closing statement. Republicans and democrats alike have been praising chairman schiff. Whether they agreed with his arguments or not for what he delivered there. There are a couple of strong lines in there, jeremy, i cant help but repeating. One is, the first is a question. Why would anyone in their right mind believe Rudy Giuliani over Christopher Wray . Because Christopher Wray was merely offering the truth to protect his country. Thats why, and in Donald Trumps mind. He also brought up china and you remember marco rubio and others said, oh, the president was just joking about china. The president asked several days later, was he joking about china . And he brushed that away, and requested again of china. Requested again that they start an investigation of joe biden. So weve heard the democratic arguments over the past several days. Its been extraordinarily persuasive. Lets face it. Its easier for them. They is the facts on their side. So the question is, where do the republicans take it from here . Weve seen a lot of distraction. Weve seen senators going on sunday shows spewing russian propaganda. I dont expect them to do that in front of the chief justice of the Supreme Court, United States Supreme Court, but what are you hearing . Where do republicans go over the next few days in the defense of donald j. Trump . Joe, this was, in fact, ras toreiccal crescendo of the last several days. This was adam schiff i think at his best. I think this was also so cogent, because it was a freewheeling echo of a conversation thats probably happening in the senate cloakroom. Its the thing theyre saying to themselves which is, we know we cant trust this guy to put americas interests in front of his own. We know he did these things. We know he pressured a foreign government. The question is, should we pull the Nuclear Option . Thats what john cornyn said to several reporters. Remove him from office, which weve never done. Schiff laid out the most persuasive case that if we dont do that, he is a danger, hes a National Security danger, because time and again an adversariy will come along and offer something to benefit him personally over americas National Security interests and time and again donald trump will choose himself. I think thats the hardest question that republicans have to ask themselves now. Right. Really it is about making the case and in some ways, katty kay, the case has been made along the way to the American People p people. You see it in polls. More and more americans are like, you know what . Something went wrong. Yes, perhaps he should be impeached, perhaps even removed from office, but what is it beyond what adam schiff did yesterday and will continue today, you know, in i guess the last day of laying out the case, what more can he do to make the case to these republicans . I feel very good after last night that after hours and hours of legalese, adam schiff unplugged. Speaking from the heart, reminded me of the need not just to speak to senators in the room but speak to the American Public as well. A poll pew research has done saying a majority of Republican Voters believe the president has done something illegal since being in office and also believe he shouldnt be removed from office because of that. Powerful about what schiff did last night saying, look, come on. Up know the guy. Be honest. I know you know the guy. You know you know the guy. You know hes not acting no the countrys best interests and this is why he has to go and he wasnt just speaking at that moment to the 100 people in the room, he was speaking to their voters as well. That was why it was so powerful. So making the case, curt b bardello, behind the scenes i dont know what conversations are behind the scenes with democrats and republicans. When you hear schiff lay it out, its simple for him and rolls easy off the tongue because its about the constitution, because its about our values, because its about the United States of america. That is something that everybody can agree on. Can we not . You would think so. I think thats the conversation that member, having amongst themselves in the cloakroom. Its what schiff was saying. Are you really willing to die on this hill for donald trump . Are you willing to permanently stain your reputation in the annal s of history to protect someone we all know lies every day. So the answer so far is yes and the question we ask again add again and again is why . What is more important than the focus of what were discussing now . Joe, this is the question youve asked about what is worth selling your soul for donald trump . It is fear. It is, as weve discussed over the past several days. Of what . Of a tweet . Not only of a tweet, its a fear of those who follow donald trump, who follow donald trump in the Republican Party. It is a fear of losing a primary election, and, then, yes it is a fear for many of these people, and i consider it to be extraordinarily weak of them, of donald trump criticizing them, or tweeting attacks at them. But it it is backfiring. If you look at the poll numbers, if you look at colorado and see how much donald trump is upsidedown. See how cory gardner is upsidedown and behind there. If you look at Susan Collins. The least popular senator in all of the United States senate, because people now consider her to be a little more than a lackey for donald trump. This is a woman who comes from a state where jon meacham, they elect fierce independents and always have. Curt spoke yesterday of working for Olympia Snowe. Never once did Olympia Snowe say i wonder what the president will think of me if i vote this way or that . Thats just not how senators in maine act and yet we hear that Susan Collins did finally have a concern in this trump impeachment, and she actually wrote a note to the chief justice, and she was concerned that a democrat had been too mean to a republican. This is this is this is you know how they say power doesnt transform character . It reveals it. Susan collins character becomes a little more revealed every day, and it is very bad news for her politically. Think ends badly for all of trumps lackeys. Yeah. And i mean, maine is so independent that it along with vermont, the only two states in 1936 to support alf landon. How far out, Franklin Roosevelt and the state of margaret cheh smith. You dont have to like in American History you dont have to push very hard to find the irony. You know . Tom josephson wrote the draft of the declaration of independence on a laptop desk made by the hands of an enslaved person. Right . You dont have to look very hard. And the fact that Susan Collins represents the state, where Margaret Chase smith, United States senator, the one in the first months after joe mccarthy went to wheeling, west virginia, and said he had the names of 205 communists in the department of state, ultimately found none, and smith laid out in a speech called the declaration of conscience the entire case against mccarthy we now accept as ka ncomical. Fair process, weaponizing the senate in an attempt to agrandiagran agrandize himself as opposed to doing the public good. Dismissed at snow white and the six dwarfs, and yet four years later, half of the republican caucus, 22 republican senators, are with her to censure joe mccarthy. Now, lets leave aside whats right for a second. Let me just say to the folks in the United States senate, down the years in forums like this or whatever forum it looks like, in books that are written about this, in conversations that are had about political courage and why people should run for office, do you want to be Margaret Chase smith in this conversation or do you want to be joe mccarthy . Pretty clear choice. Margaret chase smith trips off the tongue and is top of mind as someone who did something courageous and is rewarded in the fullness of time for that courage. Isnt that ultimately more important than making sure Mitch Mcconnell doesnt look in a cross way at you . Seems to me, yes. And thats the choice between them and its not theoretical. Its sitting right there, and if they dont vote to hear witnesses, they are saying basically the fundamental insight of the american revolution, which was that reason, was going to play a role in pub lk affalic affairs is no operative. And David Ignatius, even if you are going to keep your head down. Even if you refuse to cross donald trump, even if the truth is something that you find inconvenient and want to hide in the darkest corners and hope that you will not be forced to vote on a question that, well, the majority of americans want you to vote yes on, why do we find senators like the one from jon meachams home state who yesterday proactively questioned the patriotism of an iraq war hero . A man who was wounded in action with an ied, a man who was awarded a purple heart, a man who has served his country along with his family, his entire adult life. Why would a senator go out of her way to attack the patriotism of a war hero . Is that now the price of admission . In Donald Trumps washington . You know, joe, i hate to say this, but i think comments like senator blackburns illustrate that shes looking over her shoulder at donald trump. Shes wanting to score points with donald trump. Shes not looking over her shoulder at the American People, and i think thats really what this is going to come down to. Yeah. The senators have been watching as we all have, but the public has been watching. Were heading towards a november election. I think we can safely predict that donald trump will be acquitted, but what does the public take from this . Do they take the kind of sneers blackburn comments . The republican disinterest . Or were they listening to adam schiff in that last, long excerpt we showed from what he said last night in concluding, where he said, you know donald trump. You cant trust him. The people hear that, and how are they going to respond at the polls . I think thats really what it comes down to in these last days. And bring in gate hake. She was tweeting and reading a book. A book by kimberly straussal, about the resistance. A protrump book. Another underneath her desk in case she could finish the book in the course of a day. The disparity in senators still paying attention and those who are not is getting more and more obvious by the hour. Thom tillis came up and sit in the press gallery yesterday so bored of sitting on the floor during the day. Probably no bigger dichotomy than the fellow tennesseean sits right in the front row, republican side, one of the closest listeners to all of this, including and especially during schiff last night. You know, if you go back and watch the schiffs video, to schiffs lefthand side, every time he sits right down to the left where lamar is sitting in the chamber. I wonder is that one of the people he is trying to korconti to make eye contact with, try to continue to keep engaged in the pra u. S. . Schiff has unique ability among managers to keep butts in seats. Broadly speaking, the senators appear to be listening to him more than they are to any of the others here and got a smaller andbasically every time he gets up, folks still in play and still paying attention. As long as Lamar Alexander is one of them, he and other managers would be okay with Martha Blackburn sitting a few seats back reading her book. And lack of interest . Im hearing stories, milling the halls. Not listening. Thats a pretty pathetic defense to not want to hear information. I dont disagree. I think, you know, we are trying our very best we can to make sure that the information about whos in there and who is not is very available. Because i think i would hope that even voters who might be, you know, folks who love this president , who think he should be acquitted would want their home state senators to be in the room, taking it seriously. One would hope. What happens today . Whats the plan for the weekend . So today well see the house managers present their case on article 2. This is the obstruction of congress argument. So the sort of fact focus will shift to essentially everything the president did after the ukraine scheme was discovered and well hear the managers make that case, but also the last time the managers will fully control the clock. So i think you can see a little bit of a mix of the article 2 presentation and the Closing Arguments, if you will. They dont necessarily know if theyre get significant floor time in the future. Over the weekend well hear from white House Attorneys for the first time. Expected to present a couple hours on saturday. They want to keep the bulk of their presentation to a weekday, day. I think well see a shorter day on saturday. Then the white house will begin their rebuttal here monday and tuesday. And well see if that perhaps makes some of those republican senators more engaged getting into the early part of next week. Garrett haake, thank you very much. Still ahead on morning joe, the top democrat in the u. S. Senate Chuck Schumer joins us top of the hour. Plus, one of the prosecutors putting President Trump on trial. Congresswoman val demings joins the conversation after making her case for impeachment. Morning joe is back in a moment. This moment is about the American People. This moment is about ensuring that every voter, whether a maid or a janitor, whether a nurse a teacher or a truck driver, whether a doctor or a mechanic, that their vote matters, and that american elections are decided by the American People. Im your curious cat, and you know what they say about curiosity. Itll ruin your house. So get allstate and be better protected from mayhem, like meow. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Yeah, ive had some pretty prestigious jobs over the years. News producer. Executive transport manager. And a beverage distribution supervisor. Now im a director at a Security Software firm. 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Have you ever wondered what the motorcade driver drives, when theyre not in the motorcade . [ car engine revving ] this one drives a volkswagen passat. Theres evidence of President Trump himself demanding that ukraine conduct the investigations, but President Trump also delegated his authority to his political agent Rudy Giuliani to oversee and direct this scheme in january of 2019 mr. Giuliani and his associates discussed the investigations with the then current and former prosecutor generals of ukraine. President trump removed ambassador yovanovitch, because his agents, including giuliani, believed she was another road block to the corrupt scheme they were undertaking in his behalf. After mr. Giuliani told the New York Times on may 9th that he intended to travel to ukraine on behalf of President Trump in order to, and i quote, meddle in an investigation, ukrainian officials publicly pushed back. Ukrainian officials publicly pushed back on the suggestions of corruptions proposed by mr. Giuliani who was working on behalf of the u. S. President. Jeremy bash, Dwight Eisenhower in 1952 said, i shall go to korea. Rudy giuliani said in may, i shall go to ukraine. He kept riling the president up. He pushed a Conspiracy Theory that was inspired by russian propaganda, and he is the one who blundered his way through europe concocting this drug deal as john bolton called it. Isnt it fascinating that donald trump, whos always looking to blame other people, doesnt seem to realize that it is Rudy Giuliani more than anybody else in washington or the world who is responsible for Donald Trumps impeachment . I mean, joe, imagine for a moment that what had happened was the following, which was, trump had said to zelensky, we need you to build trump tower in kiev, and if you dont do that were going to withhold military aid. I think every senator listened to that fact pattern would say that because theres a benefit, a financial benefit to donald trump, thats an impeachable offense. So the reason i mention that is because the reason Rudy Giuliani went to ukraine wasnt just because he was interested in europe. It was because he was following the money. There was money to be made there and David Ignatius has had an epic set of reporting about Rudy Giulianis pursuit, not just of Donald Trumps good graces, but actually of some profit. I think thats really where the inquiry has to turn. But, David Ignatius, this this drug deal is even more dangerous to america than if donald trump were just continuing to be a huckster when it came to real estate deals. I mean, if he had said, build trump tower in, you know, in kiev, and in return ill release the 400 million in defensive military aid, that would be one thing, but this seems to be even worse, because what donald trump is doing is not trying to make a few extra bucks. Hes trying to undermine american democracy, interfere in american democracy, donald trump told zelensky, and then you will get your military aid to defend against the invading russian hoards who are threatening your very existence. Well, joe, youre right. This, for donald trump, isnt about petty corruption. He has obviously business interests around the world. This was about his own personal interests in interposing that against the National Security interests in working with a country that we have to remember was at war with our adversary, russia, on its borders. That never seems to have gotten through to trump. He cared nothing about ukraine, until he realized that it might give him some advantage against joe biden. Ukraine wasnt even on his radar. So as jeremy said, i think there are reasons to believe that Rudy Giulianis interests in ukraine had to do with his business partners, the people he was representing, lev parnas and igor fruman. The reason he wanted yovanovitch out was largely to do pi hwith schemes with the Energy Business but for donald trump, raw politics. Not petty corruption. Something larger, maybe Something Like what the constitution framers thought when they talked about high crimes and misdemeanors. Curt then katty. Oversight, curt, hold power accountable. In this case the president accountable. Its to prove that perhaps there was corruption, to lay out the fact that have been hitten from the American People, the facts here, vintage trump, put the facts out there and say, pffft, get over it. And thats the struggle. While the democrats have had a powerful opening here, its information that the president has normalized, is it not . Where does, like, oversight play a role . Right. I think thats what well hear a lot in todays arguments when we talk about article 2 of impeachment. Obstruction ofover sight, construction of constitutional protective authority to be that check and balance to the executive branch and its something republicans exhaustively talk about the entire obama administration. Every time the issue to subpoena, every time a closeddoor deposition, create add select Committee Like benghazi to go after barack obama and hillary clinton, this is the mantra that talked about. The American Peoples right to know the facts and truth about what their government is doing and now somehow are on the opposite side arguing the American People shouldnt know whats going on. Its okay to ignore documents. Thats right. Katty . An important point there that it was the ukrainian whose were actually flags this. An extraordinary situation where americans going around ukraine have transparency, no corruption and its the ukrainian authorities who come back to giuliani and his cohorts and say, you mean you want us to have transparency and rule of law a bit like what youre doing to us right now . Which is asking for a corrupt scheme . The irony was not lost on the ukrainians. Zelensky pushed and pushed not to make that announcement. He resisted the pressure, even under the theft of russia invasion. He resisted because he knew it wasnt right. He said, has this gone through the right channels of the Justice Department . Lets close the ranks awlgts b a little bit of hope. David ignatius, is americas stability im concerned. A tad bit concerned. I dont want to be big on the optimism scale here but there are two points. The American People have been watching. Yeah, and the arguments have been representative, but i think people get the point. Adam schiff made them most powerfully and hope they remember them going forward. Second thing is, around the world people wonder, whats going on with america . Right. Heres a sign whats going on with america is we do have a constitutional process, very serious. You know, most countries cant imagine Something Like what weve been watching with members of one branch coming to the trial of the other branch. People think theres continuity. There are fears about america, as run by this completely unpredictable, unconstrained president. No. They see that there is a system. And also are very aware of the fact that the republicans are in lock step with this president , and are not going to vote to remove him from office. Joe . Yeah. Jon meacham, though there is, though, as there was with Richard Nixon in 1973 and 1974 foreign powers who actually had good relationships with Richard Nixon personally, and diplomatically, curious about how american president s had to answer to congress the way nixon did. I do i agree with David Ignatius. I think that what were going through right now, though difficult, is sending a very Important Message across the world, and that is, the norms that were shattered over the past three years, the constitutional norms, the political norms, it has not been accepted by congress. Its not been accepted by america. When you have a majority of americans in two polls this week saying donald trump should be impeached and removed from office, when 58 say he abused his power as president , when the president of the United States has to sit through what hes had to sit through this week, it sends a signal that our institutions are pushing back. He likely will not be impeached, but if you breach constitutional norms, if you breach political norms, if you commit high crimes and misdemeanors, you will be held accountable. Thats the profound hope. Right now were sort of at a highwater mark. Certainly thus far, of the house manager case. You know, whenever you hear one part of a presentation, its hard not to remember theres a great line in tom sawyer where a preacher comes through town and tom sawyer says the preacher was so good even huck finn was saved until tuesday. So there is this possibility that depending on how well the white houses lawyers do, it all gets muddied up again. I believe firmly that the reason the constitution has lasted as long as it has is that its based on the premise that we tend to do the wrong thing, not the right thing. That was the calvinistic insight at the heart of checks and balances and divided sovereignty. Weve done everything we can to prove the founders right throughout, and i do think the pushback is usually important. It does show that there is a healthy and skeptical number of americans who do not want to hand the american presidency and the future of the republic over to someone who is doing this for his own purposes and in no way for the country, and thats an important signal. And i think we get through this but i would feel a lot better about it if in x numbers of days were sitting here and enough republicans have decided that they actually want to hear more evidence. Hmm. You know, mika, jons comments reminded me of Winston Churchills famous quip that americans can always be counted on to do the right things after theyve exhausted all other options. There you go. Coming up, one of the democratic prosecutors presenting the case against President Trump. Congresswoman val demings will be our guest. Plus, new signs that billionaire Michael Bloombergs ad war against trump is getting under the president s skin. Well get to that, ahead on morning joe. But let me start by addressing the real elephant in the room. I realize that some people may say, do we really want a general election between two new york billionaires . To which i say, whos the other one . Limu emu doug [ siren ] give me your hand i can save you. Lots of money with Liberty Mutual we customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. When youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. So you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. For small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. Shop everything home at wayfair. Com employee half a millionar sales preowned vehicles,er most with tech features like blind spot detection, back up camera. [kristen gasps] employee because you never know what might be behind you. kristen bell does the sloth come standard . kristen bell vo looking to buy . Enterprise makes it easy. 54 past the hour. The state department is urging travelers to avoid the chinese city of wuhan and its neighboring cities in what the New York Times has reported as the sternest warning the United States government issues regarding travel. Other such levelfour Warnings Issued by the state department include travel to syria, iraq, among other places. This comes as the chinese coronavirus death toll has jumped to at least 26 people, and sickened at least 835 people. This morning chinese officials have shut down transportation in at least ten cities. The total of about 33 Million People. Major chinese cities such as beijing and wuhan have canceled new years sell braces, banning all large gatherings over the coming Lunar New Year festival in an effort to contain the rapidly spreading disease, as the death toll increased by more than a half dozen in 24 hours. The wuhan government announced it was building a designated hospital with space for 1,000 beds dedicated to treating patients infected with the new virus after many have been turned away from nearby hospitals due to the overwhelming number of patients. And the Hollywood Reporter is now reporting that china is closing every single Movie Theater in the country. All 70,000 of them in response to the outbreak. Wow. Katty kay, this is, obviously they see something coming. The death toll right now of 26, there must be a wave coming . Medical experts ive spoken to say the big concern is in a week. Well see a big spike in numbers in a weeks time because the inch cue bashan period is five days. Eve only seen the beginning of this. I spoke to someone in wuhan who are getting very nervous. Imagine that . 30 Million People basically locked down. Cant come or go. Yes. Pretty much all over asia, its in the uk, been in scotland and northern ireland, its here in the United States as well. We should watch this, because in a weeks time if those numbers really do rise is when people will get very concerned and panic will start to set in. Coming up, the third and final day in the prosecutions argument in the trump impeachment trial. Talking to one of the prosecutors making the case against the president when congresswoman val demings joins the conversation. First, the senates top democrat Chuck Schumer is standing by and joins the conversation next on morning joe. Tremfya® helps adults with moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis uncover clearer skin that can last. In fact, tremfya® was proven superior to humira® in providing significantly clearer skin. 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And i hear nothing but great things from my patients that have switched to it. I know it works. And i hear nothing but great things sensethe lack of control when iover my businessai, made me a little intense. But now quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. And now im back on top. With koala kai. vo save over 40 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. Our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition. For strength and energy whoohoo greattasting ensure. With nine grams of protein and twentyseven vitamins and minerals. Ensure, for strength and energy. No public readout was posted on the white house website following the july 25th call. I wonder why that was . The white house instead provided reporters with a short, incomplete summary that, of course, omitted the major elements of that conversation. If the call was perfect, if these investigations were legitimate, if the white house had nothing to hide, then ask yourselves, why did the white house readout omit any mention of these investigations . Why not publicly confirm that ukraine had been asked by the president to pursue them . Why . Because it would have exposed the president s corruption. Welcome back to morning joe. It is friday, january 24th. Lets bring in Senate Minority leader, democrat Chuck Schumer of new york. Senator schumer, it is great to have you on the show this morning. Good morning to you all. Senator, so the democrats have finished their opening comments. Theyve made their case to the American People. Do you think it will persuade one republican . I am hopeful that it will. Certainly on the issue of witnesses and documents. We have 10, 12 republicans who have never said anything negative about witnesses and documents, and thats because its so obvious. If youre seeking the truth, the very truth that colonel vindman in that very moving part of the testimony last night told his father, dont worry, dad. This is america. We believe in the truth. That was so moving, and i saw the republicans just, i watched them. Every eye was riveted. You know . When theyre hearing things they dont want to hear half the time theyre looking down, theyre talking to someone nearby, but in the two summations of adam smith and at certain other minutes were riveted. And what was said to his dad was moving. We want the truth. We want witnesses and documents and a powerful case has been made for those. The American People every day more and more americans as they watch this say, why not witnesses and documents . So i am, am i certain were going to get to them . Absolutely not. But do we have a chance . A reasonable chance . Particularly if we keep fighting the case and they dont have any good argument against it, which they dont, yes, im hopeful we can. Once you get witnesses amend documents. Once these witness werent another telling moment, excuse me a minute. The graphic and granular discus on the 10th. The chief cook and bottle washer who knew everything was the chief of staff, mick mulvaney. It just cried out. Why arent we listening to him . Hearing what he has to say . There were some powerful moments that when our republican friends go to sleep and think of the weight of the constitution on their shoulders and think history will record them, yeah. I think weve got a shot. I do. Well, today, of course, you all finish up talking about obstruction of congress. Were you not given actually exhibit number one in the president s own statement earlier in the week when he said democrats dont have all the evidence. We are holding all the evidence. Yes. Of course. The argument is so apparent and as adam schiff made so clear brilliantly last night, part of the american grain that we are a country established on truth, established on fact, that the case keeps getting stronger and stronger,s from what the republicans dont say. You know, they dont we havent heard a single answer yet why there shouldnt be witnesses and documents. We hear a lot of finger pointing and shiny objects. Oh, theyre taken too long, or, oh, nancy handed out pens, or, oh, jerry nadler said these words, but they cannot answer the argument and the American People to each of their senators, democrat and republican, is asking now and will ask on into the future, why were you so afraid of witnesses and documents . Whats wrong with getting the truth on something so important as this . Well, especially when seven out of ten americans want to see witnesses. Yeah, yeah. More witnesses. Let me ask you about the witness deal that some republicans were floating that was trading bolton for hunter biden . Is that is the idea of that deal dead . Well, its never really been seriously considered. Let me just say this the witnesses that we have asked for are eyewitness, like mick mulvaney, to everything that happened. And the few republicans, there are some, who are saying, well i dont know if this is all really true. Its all secondhand, which is isnt, but still, every one of these witnesses, these documents, will answer this directly. Hunter biden has nothing to do with this. And by the way, and people forget this. The republicans could call hunter biden on their own. They have 53 votes. You know why they dont . Because they know that will just confirm to every american that everything the president is doing has done in this whole sad saga, everything the president s lawyers are doing, everything the republican senators are doing is just political. They call in hunter biden. Someone totally unrelated to the charges against the president. So, senator, you know, you were making a really important point about revelations from the chief of staff mick mulvaney. There are bombshells right and left in this information that has come out, and the threat to our National Security. What i see as a dilemma is perhaps the constant devaluation of the truth. On the part of trump and trump republicans. How do you make the case and prevent that from happening . Because it is happening as we speak. There are a number of americans who think, whats happening in washington doesnt matter. Its all a bunch of whatever. And theyre getting that from the republicans and from President Trump himself. And from certain news organizations. Not yours. Lets not forget that. Yeah. And, by the way, this is the first time probably a majority of republicans have heard the whole case start to finish. Theyve heard bits and pieces. Many of them hear it on fox news and we know what fox news does. They leave out the most damning parts against the president , and they even distort some of them. So so its true. But heres whats amazed us. I started four weeks ago on this campaign for witnesses and documents, when i sent a letter to mcconnell. I called nancy that night and said im going to do it. She said, great. She agrees, and ive been pleasantly and strongly surprised how much support this is getting. In other words, as joe mentioned, over 70 . Over 60 of republicans and the republicans almost always, the republican rank and file this is and all this polydata, they march with trump lock, stock and barrel, and so truth matters to americans. And getting all of the facts matters to americans. Its deep in our bones. It was deep in George Washington and James Madisons bones, the patriots who risked their lives for this country and deep into those who come to this it country like corner vindman in that moving, moving testimony yesterday. And so i think that, you know it is true. Theres a lot of mistruth and trump labels anything he doesnt like as fake news, but if you believe in america, if you believe in the depth and strength in america, and if you keep fighting, you cant just roll over and say, forget about it, you can win these fights, and thats why im fighting as hard as i am. Senator Senate Minority one final quick question. What was your reaction yesterday when one are your colleagues questioned the patriotism of purple heart recipient vindman . Ah. It speaks for itself. It speaks for itself. Not to the same extent, but to quote franklin dnkts ro. Roosev will go down in infamy. Really will. Senator Chuck Schumer thank you so much for being ons show. Well be watching. Thank you. Bring in world news america from bebk, katty kay and chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times, peter baker, former Justice Department spokesman now an msnbc justice and security analyst, matt miller. And in des moines, iowa, msnbc National Affairs analyst cohost of showtimes the circus john heilemann. Joe . So john heilemann, begin with you in iowa. What was the reaction on the ground to what happened yesterday in washington . Are iowa voters still much more interested in Kitchen Table issues . Or were they talking about what happened on the senate floor and the impeachment of donald trump . You know what . Its end of the week now here, joe. You know, ive been been everywhere, end of my week here and been on the ground here for five days, and i think ive observed a couple times over this period that you really notice that the candidates who are here, fewer of them here than you would expect because of the fact four of those senators are back in washington who are candidates for president , but the ones who are here and the ones that those senators when they were here, you heard a lot less talk about impeachment than you might think. These candidates spend tens of millions of dollars to find out whats on the minds of Iowa Democrats and data tells them what they want to hear about. Having said that, during the course of the week, moving around the state, not all over, im running into more and more people who are starting to tune in. Youre hearing more of these conversations at events. Its coming up a little bit more in town hall meetings, and just moving around the state and going to diners and going to coffee shops i noticed yesterday more than any other day so far that the tvs were tuned to cable, and people were looking up from their lunches and from their dinners and seeming to notice in a growing way that somethings going on in washington, d. C. , and youre hearing the name adam schiff a little more often in conversations than you heard before or people say, that guy from california who i saw on the tv. Its coming up more and i think it is i do think if this thing is not shut down in two weeks, as Mitch Mcconnell and his friends would like to do, if there are witnesses if theres documents and this goes on for a while, this is a trial that could grow into a really central object of American Public fascination and civic interest. Well, of course, peter baker, we think of watergate. Im sure you spent a lot of time reviewing watergate when, and writing your book about bill clintons own impeachment, but in watergate, it sort of brewed and percolated throughout the end of 72, all of 73 and into 74 and interest wasnt as high as certainly the number of americans that wanted Richard Nixon removed from office was not as high as donald trump until the very end. We never know where this is going to go politically, but im curious where you think its going to go over the next week, and how, how you democrats have handled themselves this first week . I think its an interesting comparison. Youre right. Many republicans stuck with Richard Nixon basically until the end. Only with the smoking gun came out support cratered with him. Getting witnesses they havent heard before, documents they havent seen before, could they change the dynamics of the trial . Otherwise feels like its heading to a conclusion we know in advance. I think democrats are making the best case they can with the material that they have. They have brought to the Senate Chamber the testimony they had in the house through these video clips in a way much more effective than done 21 years ago because technology is better, the presentation is easier to make. Most important witness they brought to the senate floor i think is the president himself. Theyve shown again and again clips of the president saying things that they have turned against him. Saying, look what he is basically admitting to us in public onscreen, oncamera. Taking him at his word telling us of his real motivations are and theyre not the countries. That doesnt mean it will change minds. s in the chamber yesterday i watched a lot of republicans living to this and felt they were persuaded thinks that democrats have a motive, think theyre partisan, and i think that absent new information were heading towards a conclusion we know. In watergate, it was truth that crossed the divide. Its not happening here. First of all, you can get peters book. There you go. Is that what i was supposed to checks in the mail. 20. Okay. Secondly, very interesting about what senator schumer said, at least to me, was, on two occasions he made reference to fox news and the rightwing media, protrump media. I think theres a reason he does that. A frustration among democrats that in fact truth doesnt matter sometimes. That we live in an era of alternative facts. One side can decamp to that media ecosystem and get a whole different type of version of what happened that confirms their priors. And thats a really different thing than what was happening even i think it explains in a lot of ways why the Public Opinion around impeachment removal hasnt shifted that much in the past two months despite massive ease terribexistential revelati. These arguments made by the manager maybe being over cynical, i dont know if having additional witnessless do anything revelations that are already out there and, joe, you can take it to matt miller. First i think of the story you tell about your father, and watergate, and when he found out what happened, sort of the change that he went through. Like you heard the truth and thought, i cant believe he did it, and you change your mind. The truth is its all around us, and right. Its not happening. Well, i think the difference between that moment and where we are right now is, republicans already know that donald trump is guilty. Yes. Of extorting a foreign leader to get him to interfere, right. In the election. My father, the evidence was out there, there were people all around, but when he actually heard the tapes, he went from being a fierce Richard Nixon defender to, i remember i was, what . How old would i have been in 74 . I was like 11 years old. I was jacks age now, and i remember my dad putting down the paper and saying, if this guy did half of what it sounds like he did, he should be run out of office. That was a shock, a shocking moment to me, but im sure happening all over america. I think the difference, though, is, you had some senators even conservative senators like Barry Goldwater who were independent. Who didnt feel like they owed their political existence to Richard Nixon. Now, you have senators and republican congressmen and women who have never actually even done a thought experiment let alone pritried something out ine field where they said im going to i dont know nobodys ever done this. Heres the deal. Im going to support this guy on policy issues i believe in. Whether regulation, taxes, Supreme Court justices or guns. Go down abortion. Go down the list. Whatever whatever conservative would say. But im not going to stand by him when he violates political norms. When he violates constitutional norms, when he attacks the dignity of of americans who may disagree with him politically, when he attacks the heroism of iraqi war veterans. Thats thats, mika what i just cant the difference between now and then. I just dont understand what grit this failed reality tv host has over these United States senators. Matt miller, i dont know what can persuade these republicans, but i do know whats persuading americans. Everything republicans, everything trumpists said, everything trump media said about all the bad moves that nancy pelosi and adam schiff were making, theyve been proven wrong time and time again. Two polls out this week. Calling for the impeachment and the removal of donald trump. Over 60 of americans under the age of 30 think he should be driven from office for what he did. Almost six in ten americans are saying he abused the powers of the presidency. That aint nothing. The democrats are making their case before the jury that matters the most, and that is the American People who are going to vote in november of this year. Thats exactly right, joe. I think thats really, if you look at adam schiffs speech last night that i think was such a brilliant close. It was so important, because it cut through kind of the b. S. You usually hear. He made the point that, look, you all know you cant count on him. You all know he will do this again. It was speech that really, didnt just sum up this case and this trial but summed up the entire donald trump presidency. When it comes to choosing the National Interests or Donald Trumps interests he is always going to choose his own. I thought he was talking a little bit not just to the American People right now, and to the senators in the room but also to the future. Thats a speech you could hear in three months, six months, nine months. Donald trump acquitted and you see him do this again, see him ask another government to interfere, cross the lines abuse power again is a speech that will be replayed and replayed to the detriment not just to donald trump but to all the senators letting him get away. All the senators stopping him from being removed from office, expose his wrongdoing really just letting him get away with it. Youll see adam schiffs speech played over and over again in the months to come. And part of the reason they wont stand up to him, theyre afraid. They tell us, go back to their districts and even if they voted with donald trump 98 of the time theyll find those that bring up the access Hollywood Tape and say i dont like that. Disavow the president over this and cant get away with any single joes point earlier, get away with in disavow. Speaking to bill cohen, first to break with Richard Nixon. Used to get sent silver coins. Wasnt easy for them back then either. Republicans are kidding themselves if they think they can have the excuse, i cant do this because im afraid of donald trump. Its never easy to break. It wasnt easy to break with nixon. The difference, donald trump controls this party, demand solidarity in the party the way clinton never did, the way Nixon Clinton certainly didnt. And part of what were talking about, ecosphere. The social media and adam schiff speaking directly to the audience, the 60some Million People who follow his twitter account and it makes it harder for anybody to break away from their side. A shirts and skins world now. Republicans look at this and dont think the democrats are on the level. Think after him froms beginning, just them trying to get us and not paying attention to specifics saying we have to win the contest and thats the atmosphere now in washington. Sam stein, fascinating for years weve seen a trend line where youve had politicians who were really more independent players. They were more free agents than ever before, because you didnt need the party to raise money. You could do it online. You didnt need the money, the party to organize. You could, if you were an insurgent candidate do it online. So its almost like the more the party attacked you, the better you were. Here we find ourselves now in 2020, and my gosh, party boss in a smokefilled room in the 19th century never held an entire party in their grip the way donald trump is holding these quislings who call themselves republicans in his grip. Yeah. To your point. I mean, there were a couple senators at least in the last congress who would break with trump. Break with trump on serious matters but vote with him flake and corker. What happened . Essentially run out of office. Retired on their own terms. Be honest, not because they would get reelected. Interesting about this, we live in an age now where its easier than ever to reach voters or to build an independent political structure, or a grass roots fundraising operation that would allow you to be independent from party, but simultaneously its easier than ever for a president or party boss to admonish you, to hold you in line. What trump has done, made life hell for anyone who will break with him. I think really supported by building up a immediamedia ecos that helps build up the base. What would he say during watergate . Congratulate Richard Nixon on testing Security Systems of the watergate hotel. Thank him for it. Obviously, radio hosts in the nixon era adamantly pronixon and didnt break with him but the reach and scope of it, amplified by twitter or by its of a different scope. Who said, though, sam . Didnt somebody actually was it the president himself that congratulated sean hannity and said, if you had been around during watergate, nixon might . Gotten away with it . I think it was i dont remember that. A geraldo setting. Yes. And i want to make one last point. Which is, the white house has crafted this strategically. Not a single press briefing in months. Yeah. The administration does not answer questions. President trumps access to reporters consists of, you know, screaming at them over the helicopter in the background and that happens on a few minutes here and there. When you are limiting your access, doing it on your own terms, it becomes harder to penetrate that bubble. People can get only the white house media filter if they choose. Got it. Joe . Mika, senator schumer brought up fox news twice. Yeah. It bears repeating this morning that fox news interviewed kevin chiccie yesterday. Michael bloombergs Campaign Manager. Played the entire ad and talked by Michael Bloomberg believed the president was being disrespectful to our men and women in uniform and it created an explosion from donald trump, who, of course, you know, is trying to seek out other alternatives to fox news right now. So the president , if he doesnt like what even fox news is doing, he will seek somebody else, and hope to find somebody who will be as sub sesiquious a possible. And get to our next guest. Member of the house intelligence and judiciary committees. Democratic congresswoman val demings of florida. She is one of the prosecutors in the impeachment trial of President Trump, and id like to start by taking in this broad conversation weve been having about the landscape of today. The devaluation of the truth and the two very different sides in this impeachment battle. And i wonder, congresswoman, what you think your greatest challenge is moving forward . Well, good morning, everybody. And i think if anybody has been paying attention as we have presented our case over the last couple of days, and i know a lot of people have been paying attention, theres no doubt if the evidence against the president is overwhelming, and its clear, its convincing. I think under the leadership of adam schiff weve done a decent job in trying to make it clear to the American People. I know the senators are listening. Weve had some long days but they are listening. Theyre taking notes, and i just believe if they remember the oath that they took when first elected as well as certainly the oath to do impartial justice, i think they have no other alternative but to indict, or convict, and so i am hoping that thats where we will ultimately end up. Glad we coordinated our hour. No. Ill followup with you know, theyre not listening. Some of them are walking out of the room, and while i may be one of those people who see overwhelming evidence, were still at a place where its not the evidence thats being disputed. It is the fact that some do not think it matters. And it starts from the president on down, and i wonder how you break that impasse . What is the compelling testimony, the piece of information, what is it going to take . Well, let me say this. I know some of them are walking out of the room, but, you know, i kind of see it differently. I think when they are presented with either testimony and we know weve seen one Foreign Service officer after another testimony from those career very dedicated Foreign Service officers, many of who have direct knowledge. They were on the call. I think sometimes when the senators walk out of the room, i see it many times as an indication that the evidence is overwhelming for them that sitting there listening to things being presented in a chronological way, in order, i think it can be pretty painful for them and i dont necessarily see them walking out of the room to maybe get a little fresh air is necessarily a bad thing. There is no way on earth that they can get around the fact that they can get around this drug deal, if you will, as ambassador bolton categorized it, that the president and those around him were cooking up to basically cheat in the 2020 election, and tort ukraine into interfering in our election. Hmm. Katty kay . Congresswoman, obviously you would like witnesses to appear. If you dont get those witnesses to appear, how much do you think it impacts your chances to persuade some of those republican senators, who may have been listening to adam schiff last night and may have agreed, yes, the president did something wrong here but beer nerbeer were never going to vote to remove him from office . How many of this hearing from the people directly involved in this ukraine deal . Well, i think adam schiffs closing last night was just absolutely brilliant. And i just believe if there are patriots out there, there are people who love and care about this country, there is no way they were not moved or touched by adams remarks. We certainly were. The impeachment managers were. But let me say this. We are going to continue to push for documents and witnesses. I mean, what trial in america, and there are trials going on all ober our country, what trial in america does not have witnesses and documents . Let me also say this. If we dont get there and im prayerful we will, the greatest witness that we have in this case, the best witness is the president himself. The best witness is the president himself, and listening to his own words, not only in the call record but even after the call, where he has publicly invited other foreign powers to interfere in our election. Thats hard to ignore. The information, again, the evidence that we have in this case is overwhelming. So im just wondering personally. You were the police chief of a pretty major city, orlando, florida. As a cop, what has this been like approaching this case against the president just that you have so much experience in sort of delivering the law to people directly . Well, let me say this. When i made the decision to run for congress, impeaching the president was certainly not one of the reasons on my list why i wanted to run. It was more about reducing gun violence and health care and Public Education and housing. But i got to tell you, being involved in this impeachment inquiry makes me feel like im still in the same line of work. I have interviewed witnesses and victims and certainly interrogated a lot of suspects. Ive interviewed, participated in internal cases against officers who were involved in wrongdoing, and ive certainly interrogated and arrested and then prosecuted, helped to prosecute those cases against bad guys, and i believe i think everybody should know now just like the people back home in my district who break the law are held accountable. The president of the United States is no different, and the message that we want to clearly send is that nobody nobody is above the law up to and including the president of the United States. Congresswoman val demings, thank you very, very much. Thank you. As we go to break we want to play to you this strong moment from another of the Democrat Impeachment prosecutors, congressman hakeem jeffries. Earlier this morning, i was on my way to the office and i ran into a fellow new yorker who just happens to work here in washington, d. C. And he said to me, congressman, have you heard the latest outrage . And i wasnt really sure what he was talking about. So to be honest, i thought to myself, well, the president is now back in town. What has donald trump done now . So i said to him, what outrage are you talking about . And he paused for a moment, and then he said to me, someone voted against derek jeter. On his hall of fame ballot. Life is all about perspective. And i understand that as house managers certainly we hope we can subpoena john bolton, subpoena mick mulvaney, but perhaps we can all agree to subpoena the Baseball Hall of fame, to try to figure out, who out of 397 individuals, 1 person voted against derek jeter. I was thinking about that as i prepared to rise today, because whats more american than baseball and apple pie . Whats more american than baseball and apple pie . Well, perhaps the one thing that falls into that category is the sanctity and continuity of the United States constitution. House managers, were here in this body because we believe its necessary to defend our democracy. Some of you may agree with us at the end of the day, and others, most likely, will not, but we do want to thank you for your courtesy and for your patience and extending to us the opportunity to present our case with dignity to you and to the American People during this solemn constitutional moment. In one week. A lot will happen in your life. Wrinkles just wont. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repairs dermproven retinol works so fast, it takes only one week to reveal younger looking skin. Making wrinkles look so last week. Rapid wrinkle repair® pair with retinol oil for 2x the wrinkle fighting power. Neutrogena® uh, fifteen minutes could save you 15 ain . Or more on Car Insurance. I think were gonna swap over to over seventyfive years of savings and service. What, were just gonna swap over . Yep. Pump the breaks on this, swap it over to that. Pump the breaks, and, uh, swap over . Thats right. Instead of all this that ive already . Yeah. What are we gonna do with these . Keep it at your desk, and save it for next time. Geico. Over 75 years of savings and service. House democrats led by adam schiff went through a mountain of evidence, compelling, damning evidence. I challenge anyone who actually watched this today to argue they shouldnt hear from witnesses. Its nuts. They have everything. Open and shut, which is a problem for fox news because it is impossible for them to defend. Instead of even trying, instead theyre going with the old, its boring defense. When you watch this. Its boring. Super boring. No ones going to watch the entire thing because it is boring. They are boring people to death. This is really boring. Inmonotonous, dull, boring. Its really boring. We could ganger to keep awake. Boring politicians with bad haircuts. Mindnumbingly dull. Kicks off today again at 1 00 . Yes. Good luck staying awake. And these people, have they watched any congressional hearing ever . Theyre all boring. Next week watch the rural transportation hearing and get back to us on how boring this one was. Wow. Im going to leave that there. Matt miller, yeah, matt miller, boring or not, what are you looking for today and what are you looking for next week . Look, so, yeah. Parts probably are boring. Doesnt mean they arent important. I challenge anyone who watched adam schiffs closing last night and the one the night before to say those were boring. Look, i think the things to look foretoday, youll continue to see them lay out the last piece of their argument. They want to make their case on the second article, obstruction of justice. Adam schiffs Closing Argument tonight. Probably his last chance to present. Not a rebuttal period. Theres a rebuttal afterwards like an actual trial. His closing last chance to present his argument both to the senate and the American Public. What im looking for when the president makes his case, to what extent to they try to rebut the case the prosecution laid out. A powerful case the last two days. Try to rebut things like the arguments that the house prosecutors laid out yesterday on why the president was going after the crowdstrike Conspiracy Theory . Theres no real answer to the president s behavior on that. All things said in the house about ukrainian corruption, none have anything to do with that. So im curious. Are the president s attorneys going to make any substantive rebuttal or just attack democrats, attack career Public Servants the way they did in the house . What i want to see when they step up and make their argument. All right. Matt miller. Not bored. Thank you very much. Up next, reporting from Jonathan Lemire that donald trump has become more focused on the democratic race, and its got a lot to do with billionaire Mike Bloomberg. Morning joe will be right back. As a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Rowithout the Commission Fees and account minimums. So, you can start investing wherever you are even on the bus. Download now and get your first stock on us. Robinhood. When people ask me what makes verizon 5g different i talk about firefighters. For hundreds of years theyve had to do their jobs in blinding smoke. But verizon 5g ultra wideband is built to transmit realworld data so fast, it could Power Technology that lets them see through smoke. Thats a difference that can save lives. Thats a difference that will change everything. G i want to go, go,es go where my baby is hey. Hey. You must be stevens phone. Now you can take control of your home wifi and get a notification the instant someone new joins your network. Only with xfinity xfi. Downlaod the xfi app today. The New York Times reports that advisers urged President Trump to ignore former knock mayor Michael Bloombergs ads, which takes jabs at the president , and air frequently in washington and florida. Trump grew more frustrated thursday after bloombergs Campaign Manager appeared on fox news to unveil a new nationwide campaign ad condemning trumps treatment of military leaders. After seeing the ad, trump tweeted, mini mike block buomos playing poker, says if he loses he means when, in primarying will spend money helping whoever the democratic nominee is. The fact is when mini losses he will be spending money off these clowns because he will be considered biggest clown of them all and he will be right. This is our president. Im sorry. Take a moment, to frame this moment. Thats our president. Somebodys whistling past a graveyard there. I mean, it drives him absolutely crazy. I know reports are that Jared Kushner and everybody else close to him said, dont take the bait. Dont take the bait. He just cant help himself, because he knows that well, as somebody said in Jonathan Lemires story, Michael Bloomberg is everything that donald trump wanted to be. He is somebody right. Who built something from the ground up. He is someone who built something that everybody uses, that influences the world still, and he created his success and actually has money. Donald trump failed at just about everything he ever did, other than concocting this phony image that he created by him created of himself, and outside of that, thats all he has. Right. All right. Lemire also points out that the former mayor is also hitting trump in another way. That might hurt more. But let me start by addressing the real elephant in the room. I realize that some people may say, do we really want a general election between two new york billionaires . To which i say whos the other one . [ laughter ] hmm. Its a good question. Bugs him. It really bugs him. Joining us now Senior Adviser at moveon. Org and msnbc contributor, and also with us, democratic pollster and partner at alg research. Great to have you onboard. Joe, take it away. Yeah. I want to start, though, with johnheilemann . Iowa. Obviously you worked for bloomberg for some time. As a reporter youre very aware of this back and forth. This resentment that donald trump always had of Michael Bloomberg and we showed a poll this week where Michael Bloomberg far from wasting his money in one National Poll at least like two or three points ahead of mayor pete, and is getting close to double digits. How were you reading this bloomberg trump rivalry and hows it going to impact the election moving forward . Well, i think, no doubt theres a lot of personal animosity between the two to the i would say, cant speak for Mike Bloomberg but i will say i dont think that theres a lot of respect that flows from bloomberg, and he is, you know, has ambition and ego like everybody with the kind of money he has and built the kind of things hes built but really he is very focused op the notion trump must be defeated in 2020. That is why hes in the race or a big part of it. I think the reality, joe, is, hes incredibly hampered by the fact he got into the race so late. No doubt spending this agemountf money will get him somewhere. Weve seen the polls. Money is not trivial in politics. The ads are having impact. On the other hand well see these first four contests play out. Iowa,iowa, new hampshire, iowa, South Carolina. If there is a clear front runner coming out of those four and especially if that front runner is joe biden i think mike is done and there is not going to be a meaningful campaign. If, on the other hand, there is a car crash in the first four and especially, again, if neither of the main moderates, any of the three main moderates, joe biden, Pete Buttigieg or Amy Klobuchar if they dont emerge with a dominant head of steam after february, you will then suddenly see an opening for the spending that mike is doing in these super tuesday and march states where he could end up with the amount of money hes spending making enough of an impact on the race perhaps probably not enough to make him the nominee outright, but enough to be able to likely possibly keep any of the democrats in the field from getting to 1991 delegates and then you are talking about a contested convention in milwaukee next summer. Thats the impact he could have if the right scenario unfolds. People that know Mike Bloomberg knows he plays to win. He never does anything to make a statement, to be an irritant. I do think in this case, though, john, you are right, that he has the possibility of being a real player in the milwaukee convention, even if he doesnt win the contests. Zach, i want to bring you in because a lot of those states that Michael Bloomberg is going to be focusing on three days after South Carolina are going to be super tuesday states across the deep south. Across, you know, all the way over to texas. Im curious, you guys obviously cracked the code on how a southerner wins, a southern democrat wins in the deep south. They always did it when i was growing up, it hardly ever happens before. What is the message for democrats be it Mike Bloomberg or Bernie Sanders or joe biden on how to be competitive in the deep south if you are a democrat . Yeah, there certainly are states that are competitive that maybe werent competitive a decade ago. Georgia, North Carolina are really emerging as swing states in the deep south and part of that is because the deep south, the southeast, is not is not isolated from the rest of the country politically like it might have been in the past. A lot of the same message that you would see biden, other candidates use in the south will have real impact, thats lowering health care cost, being on the side of working families. This is not a case where a candidate will have to have different messages for different parts of the country. Joe biden, any of these candidates, will be able to talk to voters in the southeast and focus on making lives better for those voters, just like the same message they would have in the rust belt, other places throughout the country. I think youre going to see the south the south, the southeast, have a real impact on the president ial election in a way we havent seen in several cycles. One second, sam. Zac should know, mika, because he worked for John Bel Edwards and of course right. Upset upset the political world again by getting reelected there just a couple months ago. It is interesting, though, mika, that democrats were given an opening this week, we are all talking about impeachment, i think youre going to hear a lot more about Donald Trumps plans to cut Social Security and medicare. Him being open to it. He can deny it all he wants. Its on tape. Right. So if you have a president thats talking about cutting Social Security and medicare, what the democrats will call it, you have a president who is working overtime to Gut Health Care guarantees like well, like preexisting conditions, you have a toxic combination for republicans that will really hurt them not just in coastal states but also in middle america. So then, zac, and then perhaps karine you can see if this can translate across the board, but what are the issues that led to success not once but twice in a deep red state for governor bell edwards . Was it the issues that carried the election . Certainly governor John Bel Edwards had a democrat in a very republican state had real accomplishments, raised teacher pay, on his first day in office he expanded medicaid 400,000 plus working people, expanding medicaid pop already each in a deep red state, criminal Justice Reform had real impact in louisiana bringing people together. Whats ee neek about criminal Justice Reformat a time when things are so divided very really gets done its an underrealized issue, there is momentum for reforming criminal justice at the state level across the country because it brings together so Many Disparate groups, republicans, democrats, law enforcement. Thats the sweet spot. Faith communities. This is not, you know, your grandfathers criminal Justice Reform, this is something that is new, this is about es in not just about doing whats right for the people incarcerated, which is important, but its about lowering costs for taxpayers, its if i say real responsible and fundamentally its safer. Criminal Justice Reform the type that is happening across the country, the type that happened in louisiana is driving down is driving down crime rates in louisiana. Karine, what do you think . I think thats exactly right. Even when you look at 2018 the issues matter and in 2018 you had historic numbers of democratic voters, voters coming out and democrats taking back the house and winning in midwestern midwestern states in governors race. So i think that there is a lesson to be learned from John Bel Edwards, especially for the candidates. Especially if you are running a senator running in georgia or running in texas. Youve got to take those lessons of how do you talk about the issues, how do you translate that into votes . I think that is on the side of democrats. I also think donald trump gives us bread cubs about this stuff on his twitter feed. Over the past week it was tweeting about how he protected protections for preexisting conditions, there were reports he was furious with his Health Advisers for not cracking down on Prescription Drug prices. He adamantly quickly denied that report, his comments that he was open to cutting entitlements. All those are bread crumbs that suggest that he knows the election wont be litigated necessarily on the matters of ukraine or the mueller report, but those domestic portfolios that matter. Joe, final quick word. Like it was in 2018, David Ignatius, its going to be health care, again, play a big role in 2020. As zac is right, states like georgia, North Carolina, if you go to the southwest, arizona, those states and texas, of course, shifting blue while some states in the industrial north shifting red. Joe, i think you put your finger on it. The 2018 midterm elections show us that people are worried about basics. Worried about health care, as trump begins to talk about entitlements people will be worried about their Social Security. These are powerful third rail issues in american politics always and they may be this year. All right. John heilemann, we will be watching the season premiere of the circus sunday on showtime. Zac has a piece on our website on how governor bell edwards managed to win in the deep south twice. Its the final day for the democrats to lay out their case against the president. They will focus on the obstruction of congress charge against trump. Yesterday their attention was all on abuse of power. We will take a look at lead prosecutor adam schiffs powerful Closing Remarks. Plus, we will be joined by former National Security adviser susan rice. Youre watching morning joe. We will be right back. Youre watching ormning joe. We will be right back. We made ur members like martin. An air force veteran made of doing whats right, not whats easy. So when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. Thats how you do it right. Usaa insurance is made just the way martins family needs it with hasslefree claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. Because doing right by our members, thats whats right. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Usaa its beautiful. You want to take it for a testdrive . Definitely. Were gonna go in that. Seriously . I thought we were going on a test drive. We are. A heavyduty test drive. Woohoo this is dope. Ive never been on a test drive like this before. 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We are not going to raise the age. And it will be just fine. Entitlements ever be on your plate . At some point they will be. We have tremendous growth. So donald trump favored changes to entitlements before claiming he didnt anymore. Before he did again. Now he says he doesnt. If strongarming ukraine doesnt get republicans attention, perhaps that will. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is friday, january 24th. With us we have columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post David Ignatius. Washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay. Usa today opinion columnist and former Senior Advisor for the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee kurt bar della and former chief of staff to the cia, an nbc news National Security analyst jeremy bash. Joe, thats often what the president does when he says something, he just says he didnt say it. Thats where we are. It is for an administration that commits unforced errors left and right every day and for a president who does that, that was yet another unforced error, and you can bet that hes going to be hearing those words thrown back at him throughout the campaign and even, you know, a week before election day. It matters that the president said that, hey, hes never going to touch Social Security and medicare, but now, of course, he is open to it. He is thinking about it. I was curious, though, i want to just get a quick feel of where we are in the impeachment trial from David Ignatius. David, you certainly remember watergate, remember the buildup to it but of course there was never a trial. You remember the trial of bill clinton. How do you compare and contrast where we are now in history to two other impeachment proceedings, one that went to trial and one that didnt . Joe, i think there is no question that theres been more repetition in terms of drama this impeachment trial in the senate has been less high voltage than the previous ones that you mentioned. I think the house managers have been systematic and i thought that the lead manager, adam schiff, if you stayed up late enough last night you heard a powerfully emotional direct statement to the senate. You know donald trump. You know what hes like. You know that he will not put the countrys interests first because youve seen him. It was the first i thought the best presentation hes given since the trial started because it was the least scripted. One of the gop senators said this sounds like groundhog day, its like over and over again. Well, yeah, there was repetition of a lot of the details, but when the house managers let themselves be emotional and speak to the heart of the case, joe, i thought this was as powerful as what i remember from watergate and certainly from the clinton trial. And, jon meacham, i was of course in my kitchen yesterday listening, overhearing the impeachment trial. You know how lavish my lunches are, how many courses i have. I mean, it is to eat is to live. So as i was sitting there, true story, cutting my Peanut Butter and jelly sandwich. And you had the staff serving it, right . Yeah, of course. White tablecloth. Well, of course. As i was cutting my Peanut Butter and jelly sandwich on the paper towel i pick it up and im starting to walk back over to the couch to continue to and just with it as background noise i sat and asked myself, why are we even doing this . The republicans know exactly what donald trump did. They know that what he did was wrong. Like the majority of americans, they know its wrong. Like the overwhelming majority of americans, they know Mitch Mcconnell is trying to rig this entire process. He said hes not impartial, Lindsey Graham said hes impartial. I mean, so why are we doing this when everyone knows the president is guilty as charged . Everybody. Everybody knows he did it. The only question, jon, is whether what he did, the actions that he committed that were wrong are impeachable or not. And its remarkable that the republicans are actually playing this line and one senator actually going out in the middle of the trial yesterday and attacking a war hero in defense of donald trump. And that senator represents the same state that in 197374 had howard baker playing the role he played when a president of his party was under siege and it was senator baker who while imperfect framed the key question and is unto this hour a model an ever distant model, he is like the green light in gatsby at the end of daisys dock, always out of reach to get that kind of sensibility, which is what youre talking about. And were doing it because at least so far the constitutional structure has worked to put these issues, put these facts, i should say, issues can be interpreted one way or the other, facts are stubborn things as adams said, put these facts before the last jury that the founders envisioned. Aaron burr of all people said that if a demagogue rises in america the last place to stop him is on the floor of the United States senate. Its almost certainly not going to happen and i think that one of the great mysteries of the age, the Great Questions of the age, is why the Republican Party in this case suspended, rented out their souls and their reason in the singular pursuit of serving a man who basically hijacked their party four years ago and is using it as a means to a personal end. Their souls, their duties. And, mika, their constitutional oath. Yeah. They are constitutionally empowered by article i of the United States constitution and that is to hold those who run the article ii branch of government accountable. Again, it may not be impeachment and maybe maybe republicans would decide its censure, but for them to make the country go through this for trying to prove something that literally Everybody Knows donald trump did. They know. Right. Because we have all of the Text Messages, we have all of the phone calls, we have all of the back and forth between his own people and we have their testimony. We know that donald trump tried to extort a foreign leader to get that foreign leader to interfere in american elections, specifically his american election. We know that instead of just admitting to that and say, yes, its very bad, maybe we censure him, we dont impeach him. We know that republicans instead of actually admitting what every american knows is true, theyve decided instead that they are going to attack war heroes. Theyre going to theyre going to actually spout russian propaganda that they were warned not to repeat. Theyre going to shame themselves like Lindsey Graham, a man who said donald trump should be run out of the Republican Party and was not fit to be commander in chief and that the best way to make America Great again was to tell donald trump to go straight to hell. People like Lindsey Graham who now are facing a primary election in a couple of months, they have now shamed themselves. Instead of just admitting to what we all know and then having a good reasonable debate on whether that is, in fact, an impeachable offense, but they just cant get there because theyve shirked their constitutional duty. So lets take a quick break right now so we have plenty of time on the other side to play congressman schiffs extended powerful closing statement. Our panel weighs in on that significant moment and tackles the question, where do republicans go from here . Morning joe is coming right back. 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With the house prosecutors looking to show how trumps withholding of aid to ukraine violated the constitution. Now, there were a number of strong moments throughout the day, which we will get to, but for now here are the Closing Remarks from lead democratic prosecutor, congressman adam schiff. Take a listen. This brings me to the last point i want to make tonight, which is when were done we believe that we will have made the case overwhelmingly of the president s guilt. That is he has done what hes charged with. He withheld the money, he withheld the meeting, he used it to coerce ukraine to do these political investigations, he covered it up, he obstructed us, he is trying to obstruct you and he has violated the constitution. But i want to address one other thing tonight. Okay, hes guilty. Okay, hes guilty. Does he really need to be removed . Does he really need to be removed . We have an election coming up. Does he really need to be removed . Hes guilty, you know, is there really any doubt about this . I mean, do we really have any doubt about the facts here . Does anybody really question whether the president is capable of what hes charged with . No one is really making the argument donald trump would never do such a thing. Because of course we know that he would and of course we know that he did. Its a somewhat different question, though, to ask, okay, its pretty obvious whether we can say it publicly or we cant say it publicly we all know what were dealing here with this president. But does he really need to be removed . And this is why he needs to be removed. Donald trump chose Rudy Giuliani over his own intelligence agencies. He chose Rudy Giuliani over his own fbi director. He chose Rudy Giuliani over his own National Security advisers. When all of them were telling him this ukraine 2016 stuff is cookie crazy russian propaganda, he chose not to believe them, he chose to believe Rudy Giuliani. That makes him dangerous. To us. To our country. That was Donald Trumps choice. Now, why would donald trump believe a man like Rudy Giuliani over a man like Christopher Ray . Okay . Why would anyone in their right mind believe Rudy Giuliani over Christopher Ray . Because he wanted to and because what rudy was offering him was something that would help him personally. And what Christopher Ray was offering him was merely the truth. What Christopher Ray was offering him was merely the information he needed to protect his country and its elections, but thats not good enough. Whats in it for him . Whats in it for donald trump . This is why he needs to be removed. Now, you may be asking how much damage can he really do in the next several months until the election . A lot. A lot of damage. Now, we just saw last week a report that russia tried to hack or maybe did hack burisma. Okay . I dont know if they got in. Im trying to find out. My colleagues on the intel committee, house and senate, were trying to find out did the russians get in . What are the russians plans and intentions . Lets say they got in and lets say they start dumping documents to interfere in the next election. Lets say they start dumping some real things they hacked from burisma, lets say they start dumping some fake things they didnt hack from burisma, but they want you to believe they did. Lets say they start blatantly interfering in our election again to help donald trump. Cuff the least bit of confidence that donald trump will stand up to them and protect our National Interest over his own personal interest . You know you cant. Which makes him dangerous to this country. You know you cant. You know you cant count on him. None of us can. None of us can. What happens if china got the message. Now, you can say, well, he is just joking, of course, he didnt really mean china should investigate the bidens. You know thats no joke. Now, maybe you could have argued three years ago when he said, hey, russia, if you are listening, hack hillarys emails. Maybe you could give him a freebie and say he was joking, but now we know better. Hours after he did that russia did, in fact, try to hack hillarys emails. There is no mulligan here when it comes to our National Security. So what if china does overtly or covertly start to help the Trump Campaign . Do you think hes going to call them out on it . Or do you think hes going to give them a better trade deal on it . Colonel vindman said here right matters. Here right matters. Well, let me tell you something, if right doesnt matter if right doesnt matter, it doesnt matter how good the constitution is, it doesnt matter how brilliant the framers were, it doesnt matter how good or bad our advocacy in this trial is, it doesnt matter how well written the oath of impartiality is. If right doesnt matter were lost. If the truth doesnt matter were lost. The framers couldnt protect us from ourselves if right and truth dont matter. And you know that what he did was not right. You know, thats what they do in the old country that colonel vindmans father came from or the old country that migrate grandfather came from or the old countries that your ancestors came from or maybe you came from. But here right is supposed to matter. Its whats made us the greatest nation on earth. No constitution can protect us if right doesnt matter anymore. And you know you cant trust this president to do whats right for this country. You can trust he will do whats right for donald trump. He will do it now, hes done it before, he will do it for the next several months, he will do it in the election if hes allowed to. This is why if you find him guilty you must find that he should be removed. Because right matters. Because right matters. And the truth matters. Otherwise we are lost. Wow. What a strong closing statement. Republicans and democrats alike have been praising chairman schiff, whether they agreed with his arguments or not, for what he delivered. There are a couple of strong lines in there, jeremy, i just cant but repeating. One is the first is a question, why would anyone in their right mind believe Rudy Giuliani over Christopher Ray . Because Christopher Ray was merely offering the truth to protect his country. Thats why in Donald Trumps mind. He also brought up china and you remember marco rubio and others said, oh, the president was just joking about china. The president has asked several days later was he joking about china and he brushed that away and requested again of china that they start an investigation of joe biden. So weve heard the democratic arguments over the past several days, its been extraordinarily persuasive. Its easier for them. They have the facts on their side. So the request he is where do the republicans take it from here. Weve seen a lot of distraction, weve seen senators going on sunday shows spewing russian propaganda. I dont expect them to do that in front of the chief justice of the Supreme Court, United States Supreme Court, but what are you hearing, where do republicans go over the next few days in the defense of donald j. Trump . Well, joe, this was n fact, the rhetorical crescendo of the last several days. This was adam schiff, i think, at his best. I think this was also so cogent because it was a freewheeling echo of a conversation thats probably happening in the senate cloak room. Its the thing they are saying to themselves which is we know we cant trust this guy to put americas interests in front of his own. We know he did these things. We know he pressured a foreign government. The question is should we pull the Nuclear Option. Thats what john cornyn said to several reporters. Should we remove him from office which we have never done . I think schiff laid out the most persuasive case that if we dont do that he is a danger, he is a National Security danger because time and again an adversary will come along and offer him something to benefit him personally over americas National Security interest and time and again donald trump will choose himself. Coming up on morning joe, the public didnt getting much of a look at the senators hearing the impeachment case, but Garrett Haake is, our msnbc correspondent is inside the room during the trial and joins us next with those details. Morning joe is back in a moment. I remember thinking about things i did and wondering if that was the last time i was going to do that thing. I thought im not letting anything take me away from my family that loves me and needs me without a fight. When i came to Cancer Treatment centers of america, it felt so different from any other hospital wed ever been to. 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What the world needs now is love, sweet love well dock back to morning joe. We mentioned in our last conversation a tweet from senator Marsha Blackburn who questioned the patriotism of Lieutenant Colonel alexander vindman. Lets bring in msnbc correspondent Garrett Haake. Garrett, Marsha Blackburn wasnt just tweeting, she was also reading a book. What was the book . Reporter this was the book by kimberly strosel about the resistance, its a protrump book. She had another one in her desk underneath it i suppose in case she was able to finish the first book during the course of the day, during the day. Look, the disparity in the senators who are still paying attention and those who are not is getting more and more obvious by the hour. We had thom tillis come up and sit in the press gallery for a little bit yesterday he was so bored apparently of sitting on the floor during the day. There is no bigger dichotomy between two senators than blackburn and Lamar Alexander who sits in the front row on the republican said and has been one of the closest listeners to all of this including and especially during schiff last night. If you go back and watch the schiff video, to schiffs lefthand side every time he looks down and to the left, thats right where la Mark Alexander is sitting in the chamber and i just have to wonder if thats one of those people who he is trying to continue to make eye contact with, trying to continue to keep engaged through this process. Schiff has probably a unique ability among the managers to keep butts in seats. Broadly speaking the senators appear to be listening to him more than they are to any of the others here and hes got this smaller and smaller audience basically every time he gets up there of folks who may be in play and paying attention. As long as Lamar Alexander is one of them he and the other managers would be okay with Marsha Blackburn sitting there reading her book. The lack of interest, hearing stories of milling the halls and not listening. Thats a pretty pathetic defense to not want to hear information. Reporter i dont disagree. And i think we are trying as our very best we can to make sure that the information about who is in there and who is not is very available. Because i think i would hope that even voters who might be, you know folks who love this president , hong he should be acquitted would want their home state senators to be in the room taking it seriously one would hope. What happens today . Whats the plan for the weekend . Today we will see the house managers present their case on article ii the obstruction of congress argument. The fact focus will shift to essentially everything the president did after the ukraine scheme was discovered and we will hear the managers make that case. But its also the last time the managers will fully control the clock. I think you can see a little bit of a mix of the article ii presentation and the Closing Arguments, if you will, for the managers. They dont necessarily know if they will get significant floor time again in the future. Over the weekend we will hear from the white House Attorneys here for the first time. They are expected to present probably just for a couple of hours on saturday, they want to keep the bulk of their presentation to a weekday day, so i think we will see a shorter day on saturday, then the white house will begin their rebuttal here monday and tuesday and we will see if that perhaps makes some of those republican senators more engaged as we get into the early part of next week. Garrett haake, thank you very much. Coming up on morning joe, former National Security adviser john bolton is perhaps the single biggest question mark looming over the impeachment trial. We will talk to one of his predecessors from the obama administration. Ambassador susan rice is standing by. She joins the conversation next on morning joe. Ng by. She joins the conversation next on morning joe. Wean air force veteran made of doing whats right,. Not whats easy. So when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. Thats how you do it right. Usaa insurance is made just the way martins family needs it with hasslefree claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. Because doing right by our members, thats whats right. Usaa. What youre made of, were made for. Usaa including best director. D for 10come on awards, best original screenplay. Theres only one way this war ends. And best picture of the year. Last man standing. Little things can be a big deal. Psoriasis, thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable. 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Joining us now former u. S. Ambassador to the United States and former National Security adviser under United Nations under president obama. Susan rice. She is out with her latest memoire entitled tough love my story of things worth fighting for. Its great to have you. Congratulations on the book. Joe has the first question. Joe . Susan, its so great to have you here. We wanted to talk about iran. Obviously its been a few weeks since the killing of soleimani, weve had some european allies actually step up pressure on the iranians. If you were running u. S. Foreign policy right now what do you think the best approach at this point would be moving forward to try to get the iranians back to the table to get them to sign on back on with the deal . Well, joe, id like to think if i was running u. S. Foreign policy we would be in a slightly different place by now, but assuming we were where we are, i think the challenge is that all trust has been broken. The notion that the Trump Administration given its unilateral withdrawal from the Iran Nuclear Deal and many other steps could credibly sit down at the table with the iranians to negotiate some kind of resumption or extension or improvement on the Iran Nuclear Deal somewhat straining credulity but i think its somewhat worth trying. There are avenues an administration could pursue to try to open that discussion if the iranians were at all amenable, not only through the swiss channel, not only through perhaps the french or japanese who have offered to help, but there is an iranian ambassador, 250 miles from washington, d. C. Up in new york city, who is knowledgeable and plugged into the iranian government and, in fact, has a key player in negotiating the iran deal originally. There could be there an opportunity for very low key exploratory discussion about what may be possible. But it has to come in the context of a broader deescalation and frankly after the killing of soleimani, thats quite difficult because i think its reasonable to anticipate that not only will they push forward in their steps to walk away from the nuclear deal, they are going to continue to try to counter us at every turn throughout the region. The strikes that they lobbed into alasad air base and elsewhere probably are not the last of the retaliation were likely to see. Its likely to take, i think, a more subtle form through proxies, through cyber attacks, possibly even through terrorist attacks over months if not much longer. Weve seen escalation for some time, obviously the u. S. Walked away from the deal, then put sanctions, tough economic sanctions on the iranians, they responded, of course, by shooting down a u. S. Drone, attacks on saudi oil fields, of course, continued involvement in yemen. Do you think perhaps the only way to move forward is to actually have a linkage between irans behavior in the region as well as adhering to the terms of any nuclear deal . I understood why you all felt the need to not link iranian behavior in the region to the nuclear deal, that they were two completely separate things. Do you think moving forward that maybe there needs to be more linkage between both of those items . Well, joe, our concern back when we were negotiating the Iran Nuclear Deal is not that they were so much two separate things, though they were. Its that the more you put into the mix the harder it would have been to have achieved a deal on the nuclear issue, which was by no means the only issue, but in many respects the most pressing issue. An iran that are supporting terrorism and building its Missile Program and engaged in nefarious behavior in the region is a much more dangerous entity when it has the capacity to make and deploy a nuclear weapon. So i think that complexity remains and i think it would be hard to try to push all of these issues into one negotiation. You know, if they were to try i think certainly negotiating is better than not negotiating, but i think it might be more achievable to start narrowly within the confines of the nuclear agreement, try to build back trust by perhaps ramping back our sanctions while asking them to ramp up their compliance and see if in an incremental step by step way there is some potential to regain a degree of confidence. Im going to pull back and ask an overall question about the president s Foreign Policy and our National Security as it pertains to personnel. David, i think i will ask you and you can take it to the ambassador. Is there a void in the National Security team and our Foreign Policy team in our Defense Department given so much turnover, so many people who have left . Who is left . Literally who is left who hup holds americas values around the world . Well, we have in mike pompeo in effect a Prime Minister right now. He is the dominant cabinet figure. Like i said, theres a void. So who is left . Its one of the weakest teams in memory. I want to ask susan first, i have read your book, i think it is superb. Thank you. Especially the personal parts which are just extraordinary. But taking mikas question, if you were to come back, lets imagine that Robert Obrien the National Security adviser came to you and said, i need your best piece of advice about how we perform better. What would you say to them about how to tighten up performance now . Well, first of all, i think that there is a risk in obriens decision to substantially shrink the size of the National Security Council Staff just months into his taking office. I think that there is room for the staff to be rightsized and we worked on that under my leadership and we actually ended up reducing it slightly, but very carefully, very thoughtfully so that we werent, you know, limiting the president s ability to conduct Foreign Policy. These drastic cuts that he seems to be contemplating i think are concerning. Secondly, and i think perhaps he understands this, that its necessary to run an effective National Security decisionmaking process. You need options, analysis, information that boils up from the expert level to the deputies level to the cabinet level so that the consequences and the risks and the objectives of various decisions can be thoroughly vetted and presented to the president with all of the analysis that goes with it. We have a president thats not particularly interested in analysis consequences or really the substantive details of these issues, but it would still produce, i would think, Better Outcomes and the potential for better president ial decisionmaking if we had a functional National Security process, which is completely broken down. Katty kay . Ambassador, can i ask you something, its around the impeachment issue. The president tweeted out this week that previous president s, including president obama, had withheld aid to other countries, he mentioned the case of egypt. Ive been asked about this actually by viewers abroad. Well, if other president s have done this, maybe it was okay, why was it not okay for President Trump to do it . Can you clarify the circumstances under which president obama withheld aid to other countries and i think egypt was one of them around human rights and how thats different from what were dealing with though. Im glad you asked that question. Its a good one. There are craziness coming out of there including senators who ought to be more informed. Yes, president obama, president bush before him, president clinton, president h. W. Bush, american president s have used white house meetings, assistance and other things to advance u. S. National security interest. Things that benefit the United States of america. We use these tools, we use as we like to say carrots and sticks, but we dont use them to advantage an individual, particularly the president of the United States, for his personal political gain. So take egypt. The concern with egypt was that the regime and the leadership in egypt were terribly abusing human rights. They were mowing down people on the streets of cairo using tanks and other heavy weapons. That was not acceptable from the perspective of american interests and values and, therefore, we withheld aid. It wasnt because president obama was trying to get president sisi to help him in an election or help somebody else in an election for his political advantage. The problem with what President Trump has done, what is so in violation of his oath of office, the constitution and our National Security interests is that he used these levers not to advance our interest, but to advance his personal political gain. Karine . And just on that same note, can you explain to viewers in the simplest, simplest terms why what donald trump did with ukraine put us at a National Security risk . Can you just really, really lay it in there . Its simple. Yeah. Russia, our adversary, is at war with ukraine. Ukraine is extremely vulnerable and our policy on a bipartisan basis since 2014 has been to support ukraine with military assistance, with economic assistance, with diplomatic assistance so that it can stand up and defend itself against a hostile russia. When we deny ukraine that Political Support like a white house meeting, the military assistance, we are crippling its ability to stand up to russia and we are strengthening russias position in the region and against us. It sends a message to russia that we dont care what it does with the countries on its periphery, that it can meddle, invade, assault countries with impunity because the United States doesnt care. We have a president thats out for himself rather than for the National Interest. To close, i mean, i dont want to dive into politics or endorse anyone here, but you tweeted something nice about Pete Buttigieg and i just i think in the Foreign Policy world and in your world, boy, is there going to be a lot of cleanup posttrump, whenever that is, because i dont think, you know, people have time to really go into the minutia, its a very complicated world of gio strategy, geopolitics and our relationships and our adversaries and our allies and building those relationships. Can you even try to describe the amount of cleanup thats going to be done at some point . Its an extraordinary amount, but let me just back up and say, you are right, i havent endorsed anybody. I had the opportunity to have a meeting yesterday with Pete Buttigieg who i have met only once before. How did it go . It was great. It was fine. He is a thoughtful, very smart guy, but im impressed with a number of the candidates in the field. Obviously i had the privilege of worker for eight years very closely with Vice President biden for whom i have enormous admiration and respect. I also have very close to senator Michael Bennet who i have known since we were Children Together and i think highly of him and his temperament and judgment and intellect, too. I think there are still a number of strong candidates in the field and i look forward to seeing how it plays out, but i hope what emerges from our primary process a leader with the experience, judgment, temperament, wisdom to understand how complex the work will be to restore our leadership in the world and thats going to take a lot of very careful, measured effort. Former National Security adviser susan susan rice, thank. Her latest memoir, entitled tough love. My story of things worth fighting for. Starting at the top of the hour, chuck todd, ari melber, Chris Matthews host the coverage of the impeachment trial of President Trump. Up next on morning joe, entire cities in china go on lockdown because of the deadly coronavirus and it is having an Economic Impact as well. We go live to cnbc as we go to break. An update on a couple of things the Trump Administration has been focused on while the impeachment trial dominated the news cycle. They announced new visa restrictions targeting pregnant women designed to keep some from giving birth in the United States. Anyone born in the u. S. Is considered a citizen, according to the constitution. Also yesterday, the administration removed half the countrys wetlands and millions of miles of streams from federal protection. This is the largest reversal of the clean water act since the law was passed in 1972. Well be right back. Limu emu doug and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] its an honor to tell you that Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. And now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. So to breathe better i started oncedaily anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say go this way i say ill go my own way with anoro. 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With esri location technology, you can see what others cant. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. With Td Ameritrade tools, and help from pros. Its almost like youre training me to become an even smarter, stronger investor. Exactly. rocky theme music fiftysix straight, come on thats it, left trade right trade. Come on another trade, i want to see it more 80sstyle training montage . Yeah. Happens all the time. It is time for business before the bell. Start with the coronavirus outbreak. We talked about the health impact, theres also Economic Impact. Absolutely. So here is whats happening. Some of the scare with the coronavirus is taken from markets today. It had been clouding things all week, arguably the last couple weeks. Global markets are in rally mode in europe and possibly in america as well. Many asian markets are closed for Lunar New Year holiday. World Health Organization stopped short of calling it a Global Health emergency. Fears over the disease, they are keeping the markets in check. Entering today, the dow is slightly lower on the week. Key focus for traders and investors this week has been the pharmaceutical, drug, Bio Technology industry, Companies Best poised to deliver vaccines and treatments. A lot of Market Impact being felt there. Well see if the economy suffers in china because of the slowdown. Meanwhile, if youre a company that has aspirations to go public in the u. S. Someday, you better have diversity on the board of directors if you want help of Investment Banking giant goldman, sachs. This is the ceo, david solomon, speaking to cnbc at the World Economic forum. He said starting this summer it will only work with company ipos where theres at least one diverse board member. He didnt define if that meant gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, whatever, but he did say the focus will be getting more women on Corporate Board of directors, and that diversity requirement will increase over time. Thats something to watch. Speaking of banks, one person who wont be a banker in america ever again is john stump. This is the former wells fargo ceo, he is banned for life at the office of comptroller of currency or occ, also ordered to pay 17. 5 million fine. That ban stems from a scandal where wells employees were incentivized to open fake accounts for clients, to meet sales quote as. In that case here, lifetime ban, guys. Send it back to you. Dominic chu, thank you very much. Joe, we mark a major passing in the media news industry. Yeah, the passing of jim lehrer, he started in print as a print reporter in texas but switched over to broadcast journalism and what an impact his life had, what a wonderful contrast to what we see today in so many people on television. No glitz, no glamour, no flash, no cutting remarks. A journalist, a reporter to the end. Joe, jim lehrer was one of those rare people, he just had the ability to pull the world together. He had that calm demeanor, that voice that was out of the heartland of america, trustworthy. A good friend to many of us in the business, including me. I tweeted when jim passed, if he were to try to think of who was the mayor of our journalistic world in washington, it was jim lehrer. We know, just remembering his presence on television, what good, steady public serving journalism is all about. So real lesson to everybody in our business. A real kindness in his delivery and his writing. My father loved him. I first arrived in washington, been here two weeks, happened to go to dinner with this man, jim lehrer, didnt know, i said i work for the bbc in television, what do you do, jim. He looked at me with incredible kindness. Only afterwards i was mortified. He didnt make me feel small or bad, wasnt pompous, just told me what he did. Just really sad. We totally appreciate his legacy. Joe, final thoughts for the week as we look ahead to another day, another big day ahead in washington. Id rather talk about jim lehrer. The Washington Post wrote this talking about Mcneal Lehrer that so many grew up watching. The canadian born mcneal corresponded with nbc and bbc, had an air of urbanity with midatlantic accent. Mr. Lerer had a wind blown voice with echoes of kansas and texas upbringing and never lost thely connick, slightly ruffled manner of the Newspaper City editor he had once been. I love it. That does it for us this morning. Chuck todd hosts msnbcs special coverage of the impeachment trial of President Trump right now. Today, House Democrats sharpen the case against the president. You know, you cant trust this president to do whats right for this country. You can trust he will do whats right for donald trump. As the white house prepares to launch an all out counter attack. Still have to meet basic, fundamental constitutional obligations and they havent. It is a high stakes moment in history. The impeachment trialf