Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20190304

And another powerful system further north. Plus House Democrats push forward on a new probe into Donald Trumps taxes. Will congress get his hands on what the president has kept so secret for so long . And two Top Republicans defend the white house. One is breaking with americas own Intel Community while the other insist as hush money payment a porn star is much ado about nothing. The president s job Approval Ratings, up 3 points since january to 46 . Trump scores best among republicans with 88 approval. 60 of both rural residents and whites without College Degrees as well as 54 of men and whites. While the president s least popular among africanamericans, 88 disapprove, 64 of latinos disapprove, 61 of women disapprove, while disapproval among Young Americans is 57 . This as 41 of voters say they are likely to vote for trump in 2020 while 48 pick the democratic candidate. Compared to previous president s, those numbers are worse than what barack obama faced at this point in the 2012 cycle when he led his hypothetical opponent by five points, while trump is closer to bill clintons numbers in january of 1995 when only 38 said they would reelect the president. Joe, what did you think when you first saw these numbers . I thought of bill clinton. Michael steele, it seemed the more bad news befell bill clinton, the higher his ratings went. By the time he was impeached and it was evident hed committed perjury and he had been stripped of practicing before the bar in arkansas and the Supreme Court stripped him of his rights to practice in front of the bar there for lying under oath, his Approval Ratings were over 60 . There were snl skits about this where they said can i go out in the streets and smoke pot and ill be just fine, be stoned. Donald trump faced one of his worst weeks last week, hes had one of his worst months in the past month or so and his numbers you and i never met a politician who would be excited about a 41 reelect, that means youre going to lose, but 46 Approval Rating, this is about as high as Donald Trumps gotten. Its interesting. If im donald trump, im not looking that badly. Ive got investigations coming from the right and the left and yet with the core of his base and certainly elements within the general population, theres something about trump thats still very appealing. For a lot of those folks behind those numbers is the state of the current economy, where things are for those individuals, their families, their job prospects, their Small Business still relatively good. Yes, there are some weaknesses around the edges, there are concerns about whether or not a recession will kick in by the second or Third Quarter this year, but right now people feel very, very good. If im trump, i go to cpac and give a two and a half hour speech because i know i can. It adds another layer of drama and excitement about a presidency thats already had a lot of drama and excitement. Hes in a good spot as he wakes up this morning and he goes what do the democrats have to offer . What are you going to beat me with . To get the extra 5 or 6 Percentage Points in the next year, i think i can do that. The cpac speech was one of his most unhinged speeches. Well certainly get to the things that he said. Take a couple sentences out here, a couple out there, Mike Barnicle, it would be disqualifying for anyone, for any president , not for donald trump. This past weekend i was with six republicans and all of them were supporting donald trump and this were poking me laughing and we were going back and forth but its so much like 2016 when i said 2016 was not about trump, it was about Hillary Clinton. You ask why they support donald trump and they talk about democra democrats. They dont talk about donald trump. Its like i dont want this person to be president , i dont want that person to be president. Those people dont understand me, theyre from another world. Its this disconnect that somehow this manhattan billionaire, supposed billionaire, has figured out how to connect on with people in Middle America and democrats still arent. Joe, i dont disagree with that assessment. I think its fairly accurate. Nor do i disagree with michael claiming and legitimately so that the state of the economy has a lot to do with those numbers that we just read. There was a blizzard of numbers there. I think, though, theres a Little Something larger going on and i think what it is is those numbers that we just read at this stage of his president after the two hour and 20minute speech on saturday, they prove i think that Donald Trumps sustained assault on the nature of the presidency, on our democracy, on common sense, on truth, a stand daily assault has had a huge impact on the average American Voter. They accept things now from the mouth and behavior of a president of the United States that they would not have accepted from any prior president nor do i think this would accept it from any of the Democratic Candidates running to succeed him. You know, mika, to your consternation, i mean, it bugs you and it has for some time that im constantly trying to figure out what the other side thinks, whether im a republican and theyre liberal democrats whatever and the same thing with trump supporters, just trying to figure it out, what am i missing, what are my blind spots and there are a lot of blind spots, whether im trying to figure out what people on the far left are thinking or trying to figure out what trump is thinking. But there is no reasoning through some of the hellacious things said at cpac this past week, no explaining away some of the inhumane statements, some of the inane statements, just no other word but stupid. There were a lot of loaf points there for a conference that i used to go to every year, the worst of course was the celebration of john mccains death and the fact that the announcement of john mccains death and the mocking and the attacking of, quote, john mccains ghost caused the people of cpac to rise to their feet in a thunderous applause, if you can imagine that these people who obviously again, i dont know if they werent raised right, i dont know if their mothers and fathers never taught this many basic values, im sure they did and im sure they just lost it along the way, maybe they were just swept up in the excitement of actually being somewhere, i dont know, but when you applaud the death of an american war hero, a man who was imprisoned and beaten so badly that he couldnt even raise his arms over his head for the rest of his life, a man who was allowed to go free early but refused to, said he wasnt going to walk out until his band of brothers walked out with him, who wasnt going to get ahead of anybody else who had been in the hanoi hilton. When you applaud the death of that man at cpa c when actually very little separates you and that man they were mocking by the way, whose wife and whose children suffered with him and watched him suffering and battling cancer and slowly dying, to see now that his death was something that matt schlapp and cpac would applaud, something that matt schlapp and cpac would be a great thing to be excited about and also republicans who spoke at that event who were john mccains cowork, in the senate for years. The fact that donald trump has caused this in the Republican Party, that hes caused this in american politics actually i think is probably going to be his work legacy, many, many terrible legacies, but those people that stood up and applauded for john mccains death, let me just say to you, you may not be bad people but you sure as hell gave a good impression of what a bad person looks like. And i man this, and i do man this with all the love in my heart understanding that we all make mistakes and all have sinned and fall i dont knen sh glory of god, i hope this monday morning when you wake up you think about that moment and you feel a little ashamed and you tell yourself ive got to do better next time. I can support donald trump without being hateful, i can support donald trump and still not devalue the worth of human beings that dont look exactly like me, who dont think exactly like me, who doesnt worship exactly like me. It n its not too much to ask. Just think about it. And yet republicans are rallying around President Trump. Hes firing up his base with that partisan appeal, with a constant assault. Donald trump gave the longest speech of his presidency at cpac on saturday. There was no vision of america. He just ran through grievances he went back to his it was kind of cute. He was going back to his crowd size at the inauguration for, gosh, 15 minutes maybe . Also, his enemies in the media and special counsel Robert Muellers office, rambling a lot and at times using profane language. This is how i got elected, by being off script. If we dont go off script, our countrys in big trouble, folks, because we have to get it back. The attorney general says im going to recuse myself. And i said why the hell didnt he tell me that before i put him in . How do you recuse yourself . But the person that appointed Robert Mueller never received a vote. Robert mueller put 13 of the angriest democrats in the history of our country on the commission. The Green New Deal, right, Green New Deal, i encourage it. I think its really something that they should promote. No planes, no energy. When the wind stops blowing, thats the end of your electric. Darling, darling, is the wind blowing today . Id like to watch television, darling. If you tell a joke, if youre sarcastic, if youre having fun with the audience, if youre in Live Television with millions of people and 25,000 people in an arena and if you Say Something like, russia, please, if you can get us Hillary Clintons emails, please, russia, please, please get us the emails, please so everybodys having a good time. Im lawiughing, were all havin fun and then that fake cnn and others say he asked russia to go get the emails. Horrible. I mean, i saw it like two weeks ago. Im watching and theyre talking about one of the points, he asked russia for the emails. These people are sick. Were waiting for a report by people that werent elected. Think of this, we had the greatest election in all fairness, i used to hear andrew jackson, this was now greater than the election of andrew jackson. People say that. We had the greatest of all time. Now we had people that lost and unfortunately you put the wrong people in a couple of positions and they leave people for a long time that shouldnt be there and all of a sudden theyre trying to take you out with bull [ bleep ], okay . With bull [ bleep ]. So much to talk about. First of all, those people that were, quote, trying to take him out are people that he appointed or his appointments appointed, whether youre talking about, as he said jeff sessions, a republicans, christopher ray, a republican, can you go down the long list of people. Theyre republicans. Rod rosenstein, a republican. Bob mueller, a lifelong republican. You just go down the list. Of course thats nonsense. Also, he accuses the media for being sick for something that the media didnt do. We didnt talk about jokes that he told in front of crowds of 25,000. We all have talked about a press conference he had where he looked into the camera without a smile on his face and without any intention of telling a joke saying, russia, if you have the emails, send them. I think the reason hes lying about that is hes feeling the pressure and that night, the gru, russias military arm began hacking into the dnc. His people have all said, even his secretary of Homeland Security, theyve all said that russias hacking in 2016, continued hacking, is a threat to american democracy. So he can pretend its a joke and pass it off as a joke and maybe there will be a couple people that lack knowledge and theyre ignorant enough to believe that it was a joke but of course it wasnt. Mika, its so much more than this. This is really nitpicking. People have decided theyre going to support donald trump no matter what happens, no matter what evidence comes out. Hes got his 40 , 41 theyre going to vote for him and nothing will ever change that, as he said during the campaign, he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and people would still vote for him, we now have a cult of people who i have no doubt that 41 would still support him. Thats not said in anger, it not said in despair, its just a basic logical conclusion based upon everything that weve seen over the past two and a half years. That he where we are in american politics and democrats have to figure out a way to break enough americans out of a spell to actually get somebody back in the white house that respects madisonian democracy. That can win. That can wenin. Were a long way away from knowing who that is. Heidi and nick, even as it pertains to what appears to be clear finance violations continue to defend donald trump. Whats the word . Is there no sense of the end game here, just the moment . I just want to also point out something that in my 20 years of covering republican campaigns was really poignant to me in that cpac speech, a fixture of republican campaigns for the past decades has always been christian values. This welcome came amid a week in which if anything else was prove i dont kn proven it was that Michael Cohen showed up with a check proving that the president of the United States had slept with a porn star and had been paying her off while he was in office. And so to me that was just another benchmark of how far our politics had propped. To why are question about republicans, watching the Michael Cohen hearings it became clear to me, while the republican support is broad, you saw no republicans going hard at Michael Cohen but you also didnt see them defending donald trump. This is why democrats believe, it is their calculation, that if they can get the information from the Mueller Report actually before the American People that they may, may have a chance of breaking that fever, as joe points out. That is why our reporting that the democrats are going to try and basically use the same arguments that the republicans used over the past couple of years in terms of forcing unprecedented forcing of information out of the Justice Department that is considered classified and protected to turn that around now and make that case that this information that mueller may be imminently reporting has to come before the American People. Lets take a look at krch ev mccarthy doing exactly what youre talking about, which is really excusing the hush money payments. If its a finance campaign, those are fines. Those arent impeachable in the process. But you say youre not concerned about the check. If theres no problems with these checks and reimbursement, why did the president lie about it for so long . You could ask that question of the president. This is a personal issue and why would not most people go to the American Public about this . To me theyre trying to find a case for a problem that doesnt exist. Its a crime. Beyond Kevin Mccarthy obviously having a very sort of wide margin for Human Behavior and whats okay, its a crime, nick. I mean, is this where we are . Whats your reaction to that . First of all, its really important to point out to our viewers, mika, there are two different ways can you break a cam pan finance law. You can break it accidentally basically by having too many contributions from one person and have to refund that. That is a civil violation. It is handled with a fine. Theres a second category, which is a felon, a crime, an ak of crime, which is to knowingly break the Campaign Finance law. Thats what were talking about with cohen and the hush money and the president. When you specifically go out and break the law in a criminal way, thats not fines, its handled in a criminal law. This cant be rushbrushed off w fines, znaccidents, its not reasonable. It is a felony. I have known people and im sure you do, too, what have tried far lesser acts of hiding campaign contributions. And Kevin Mccarthy has to have known people if hes been in politics that got in trouble and actually got sent to jail for doing things far less than what this president has done. And yet Kevin Mccarthy, the head of the Republican Party in the house says this is nothing, im not worried about the fact that it appears he has committed a felony that the Southern District of new york is investigating him for committing a felony and we now have a check that proves he is part of a conspiracy to commit a felony. Ladies and gentlemen, your Republican Party. What i loved in that moment is when George Stephanopoulos shot back about him, but the president lied about it and if this was no big deal, why did the president lie about it . The look on his face said it all. Well, you can ask the president about that. No, wo rk, were asking you becu just said its okay. And Kevin Mccarthy knows and Everybody Knows these are serious. Even the ones that are accidental are serious. When you have a deliberate effort to undermine the integrity of the electoral system by skirting the law, deliberately, the consequences are huge. What you see in this trump Republican Party is you take the strong lines that have been put in place, the rule of law, if you will, which applies to all things, we take it and we stretch it to give donald trump as wide a berth of excuse and explain if possible. The test will come what happens in the future, when the next democratic president decides to go to the barriers that the president has gone and say, wait a minute, this was not a campaign violation, this is not a problem, why are you making such a big deal . Then what willthesay because theyve stretched that bare yes so far that now its distorted. Its a felony. Ia, its a felony. Maybe for these republicans who continue to do this, if theres one part of Michael Cohens testimony that you might want to consider believing from last week it, would be if you follow donald trump blindly as he has, youll end up where hes going and he meant that from the bottom of his heart. Theres a long list of people already in this situation, including him. This ends badly. This ends badly. These are word we used before. We used them really soon as we were watching this happen. This ends badly. Were going to talk about this much more. We have much more to cover still ahead. But its a state of emergency in alabama after two powerful tornadoes tore through the eastern part of state killing at least 23 people and injuring dozens more. According to the National Weather service, the first do tornado was a half a mile wide or more. Rescue crews used drones last night to search for survivors but the efforts were scaled back due to dangerous conditions. An intense ground search is expected to resume this morning. Nbc news consider Tammy Leitner is in lee county, alabama with a look at some of the construction. Reporter good morning. Im in lee county where two tornadoes touched down. Residents trying to piece to the whats left. Im in the buck wild salon. Im here with the owners. Theres not a lot they believe can be salvaged from this place. The roof was completely ripped off. Can you tell most of the bar stools, the tables, completely destroyed. Im told rescue crews are going house to house, trying to assess the damage, a town of about 4,500 people, a town in eastern alabama that sustained major damage and that has a long road of recovery ahead. Back to you guys. Well continue to follow that. Still ahead on morning Joe John Bolton attempts to explain away why President Trump takes the word of kim jong un. This is the same john bolton who has long pushed for regime change in north korea. A lot to get to. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. At outback, your steak lobster wish is our command. Steak lobster is back by popular demand, starting at only 15. 99. Hurry in to outback and try our everyday lunch combos, starting at 7. 99. I thought i was managing my moderate to severe Crohns Disease. Then i realized something was missing. Me. My symptoms were keeping me from being there. So, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of Crohns Disease after trying other medications. 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Customize each line by paying for data by the gig or get unlimited. Get 250 back when you preorder a new samsung galaxy. Click, call, or visit a store today. So my mom, mary jo clarke, passed away this weekend. I dont want to talk about it now, i will talk about it later but i wanted to say to those who have reached out and offered their condolences, we really appreciate it, the entire family does. And we thank you. And more importantly, i personally want to thank all of the people over the past eight years that have helped my mom and stood by her side and loved her unconditionally as she struggled through her battle with dementia. It is, as everyone who has been through this, it is an excruciating disease. Were thankful for everyone who has loved her and cared for her for so long and were thankful after an eightyear battle with dimentia, she finally at peace. Joe, you did a great job with her. There is a new name in the democratic race, John Hickenlooper has jumped into the race, he served two terms as governor of colorado. He has a business background, he was a restauranteur, largely credited with helping to revitalize colorado. Hes jumping in to a huge pool, nick confessore. Democrats are looking for someone who can beat trump. The question is could it be someone like John Hickenlooper or anybody that were seeing so f far. A lot of folks that know more about this man me are concerned that there isnt that exact voice that can take on these times. Meek yaikamika, the classic is a pragmatist or former executive of some kind at the government level. Right now there is a tension in the Democratic Party between beating trump and being bulled bold and trying to do both. There is a discussion about big ideas on the left. The question is can a candidate like hickenlooper, who is running on the center left, can he thread that needle and find the place in the primary when the talk is about the Green New Deal and health care for all and free college for all and whats his message going to be. Its a traditional campaign, i was a governor, i got things done, i accomplished x, y, z. Is that the kind of campaign that will pull voters when so much is about trump and can you beat him . This is about your favorite game, one youre fully invested in and spring training. Right now youve got multiple candidates in the field like spring training rosters explode to 45, 50 down there in florida, but right now youve got an expanding roster of candidates and youve got a country largely not paying attention to really any of them and eventually as the season progresses, the roster will be honed down, some candidates will drop off and be sent back to the minor leagues, a few will emerge as Major League Players and the country will start listening. I think its kind of a fools errand to try to pick out the one voice that might emerge. We dont know. We know there a few stronger candidates than others, kamala harris, joe biden, waiting on him. Were going to find out as time moves on. Coming up, well bring out the overlap between President Trumps administration and his favorite news channel. Well be right back. Channel. Well be right back. M. When it comes to reducing the sugar in your familys diet, coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. 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Having said that, theres some great journalists there. Theres some great reporters for fox news, thats absolutely true. But what there also a roadblock every night of hosts that do opinion shows and every morning that take up the major hours on fox that are a platform, a soft ball platform for President Trump and he works it big time. What youve got there is according to a number of critics the closest weve of had to state news. Bill shine is new the head of communications in the white house. Thats interesting. If you lift the lid layer from the layer from the bottom all the way up to the owner of 21st century fox, the chairman, Rupert Murdoch, theres a symbiotic relationship here. I was going to ask you about bill shooines role, if any, in the notion of whats happening here as well as rupert or is it a direct connection between trump and the hosts . I think of sean hannity and j janine pirro and you really think theres a relationship thats correct. Oh, there is. Sean hannity and trump speak regularly, almost every night after his show, at least thats what sean hannity has told people. But theres also a relationship between Rupert Murdoch and trump and murdoch and trumps soninlaw Jared Kushner. Youve got this feedback loop going on thats very tight. Weve never had a whole National Network like this that is basically its incredibly close with this white house. People describe it to me as a wing of the west wing. Hmm. Mike barnicle. Jane, as usual, an extraordinary piece from you in the new yorker this week. One of the things that were living through is the role in fox news. One of the people said fox is not just taking the temperature of the base, it is raising the base. Can you speak to that . We all live through it. I think its incredibly important so thanks for asking. What fox does is it makes money by enraging americans. Thats how they keep them glued to the television set. And its very much the same model that trump has to keep his base engaged. So youve got a ragebased model for both of them and what its doing is its spinning the country in an increasingly inflamed direction. And so it has a huge effect on our national politics. In part and parcel, to follow up on that quote, your explanation of it in the piece, the reality of it, what were dealing with and watching is fox is both the president s shield and his sword. And thats right. I mean, it carries his message and it also gives him a message a lot of the time. Trump picks up on what he sees on fox and ive got quotes from people who are very close in to the white house, people who worked in the white house, in and out of fox saying what youve got is a dysfunctional white house all of the time with no normal decisionmaking process where a lot of the policy making is the president picking up whats on fox. And then i describe how fox puts on what it does on the news, which is shocking in many ways. I mean, taking stuff straight off of the most crack pot blogs. Dont take it from me, take it from the people who are quoted from fox saying so. I have a question from you on that topic. We often hear about people from the administration who go on fox to get to the president , the best way to get something through his head is to have it said on fox friends or on hannity. Fox is a business and wants to make money. Who is getting more out of this . In which direction is the power flowing . Is fox driving the presidency . Or is the presidency driving fox to change and adapt for some Business Purpose . So this was my question going into this, too. The problem is theres such a kind of symbiotic relationship, you can hardly tell on any given day which one is in the drivers seat. It works for both of them and maybe to the detriment of the rest of us. Fox is making a tremendous amount of money, 2. 7 billion maybe a year for 21st century fox. Cable news part it have of it i that much money. Does Rupert Murdoch know better . Hes opposed trump on immigration. Does he complain . It looks like he counts the bottom loon. All right. The new piece is online now at the new yorker. Coming up, robert costa joins us. Plus former new Jersey Governor Chris Christie joins the conversation. Morning joe is back in a moment. Back in a moment life isnt a straight line. Things happen. And sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. But at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected with Retirement Planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. Because when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. A partner who makes sure every step is clear, raquen. Rakutahn. Rakooten. Rakuten oh is this my money . Whoaaah haha rakuten ahhh rakuten why go with anybody else . We know their rates are good, we know that theyre always going to take care of us. It was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. Were the tenneys and were usaa members for life. Call usaa to start saving on insurance today. Im missing out on our family outings because i cant find a bladder leakage product that fits. Everything was too loose. But depend® fitflex feels tailored to me. With a range of sizes for all body types. Depend® fitflex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. We will be issuing document requests to over 60 different people and individuals from the white house to the department of justice, donald trump jr. , Allen Weisselberg to begin the investigations to present the case to the American People about obstruction of justice, corruption and abuse of power. House judiciary chairman jerry nadler said his committee will move forward today to vet corruption inside the white house. He added impeachment is a long way down the road and that lawmakers didnt have the facts yet and are going to initiate the proper investigation. A lot of democrats are saying were not talking about impeachment. And the chairman of the ways and Means Committee have asked its attorneys to prepare a request for years of President Trumps personal tax returns, according to two aides involved in the process. Heidi, you have new reporting on this. Thats right. Democrats believe that Michael Cohens testimony bolstered their case for the president s tax returns. They believe theyre on solid footing because this committee has the right to request any americans tax information. They also want to make the legislate of case and that is why theyre pulling in now according to my reporting, several committees that with benefit from the tax returns. The question here is whether Steven Mnuchin is going to block this request. If he does, that would really be unprecedented and it would for the first time challenge this part in the tax code in federal court. Democrats believe they have a strong legal footing. The question is hog will this process get drawn out . Republicans could go a long ways in terms of stalling this and making it hard for democrats to get the information they need to conduct these investigations. And Michael Steele, what are the concerns about overreach . I noticed a lot of the democrats really are pulling back on their language but its like the republicans are wanting it to come out. They were using the word impeachment more than the democrats. But you know, if you look at trumps Approval Ratings, there are is a real concern about overreach. They dont actually have to do impeachment. Youve got a number of hearing, some ten to 12 hearing that are going to be taking place this year. That in and of itself will put a lot of evidence in the mix before the public. So democrats have other ways in which they can do, quote, impeachment without actually doing impeachment. Heidi, thank you very much for that. Coming up, the president blames the cohen hearing for his failed talks with north korea and now claims he was joking when he asked russia for Hillary Clintons emails. Well have that and the other wild moments from Donald Trumps cpac speech. Plus rand paul comes out against the wall. The wall sometimes, the pressures of todays world can make it tough to take care of yourself. But natures bounty has innovative ways to help you maintain balance and help keep you active and wellrested. Because hey, tomorrows coming up fast. Natures bounty. Because youre better off healthy. Neighbors. Loved ones. Living with diseases like cancer, epilepsy, Mental Health conditions and hiv. Maybe youre one of them. But new medicare rules could deny access to the latest, most effective therapies. Therapies that keep them healthy. Are medicare cuts that save less than one percent worth the risk to millions of patients . President trump promised to protect medicare. We need him to keep his word. Ythen you turn 40 ande everything goes. Tell me about it. You know, its made me think, im closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. Hm. Im thinking. Will i have enough . Should i change something . Well, youre asking the right questions. I just want to know, am i gonna be okay . I know people who specialize in am i going to be okay. I like that. You may need glasses though. Yeah. Schedule a complimentary goal Planning Session today with td ameritrade. My experience as a child living in a family that struggled economically powerfully influenced my life and my values. I know where i came from i know what its like to be in a family that lives paycheck to paycheck. Now it is true i did not have a father who gave me millions of dollars to build luxury skyscrapers, casinos and country clubs, i did not come from a family that gave me a 200,000 allowance every your beginning at the age of 3. As i recall, my allowance was 25 cents a week. I stayed at the white house for months and months because i wanted the democrats to get back from their vacations from hawaii and these other places. I told my wife go to florida, enjoy your christmas. I stayed for thanksgiving. I mean, i was in the white house for a long time, months, months. I had cabin fever in the white house. I spent my new years all by myself. Dont cry. Okay. It was a busy saturday in the runup to 2020. Bernie sanders took on the president while the president took on trade and Hillary Clinton among other things. We have contributor meike barnicle, nick confessore, Michael Steele and joining the conversation, political reporter for the Washington Post, moderator of Washington Week on pbs, robert costa and kasie hunt. Bob costa, you wrote a column this weekend talking about how acquiescence is now the defining trait of being a republican in Donald Trumps Republican Party, despite the fact that many are wandering around bewildered, do not like the man personally and arent exactly thrilled where he is taking the party of the country. I spent some time, joe, at the capitol last week, your old haunting ground and spoke to mike simpson of idaho who said if Perez Barack Obama was doing some of the things that president is doing, republicans would be going crazy, like declaring a National Emergency and bypassing emergency and all but ignoring the claims of Michael Cohen, a racist conman in his words, someone who has worked with President Trump for a long time. Kasie, the republicans arent thrilled to be in a position where they have to sit back and either defend or reman silent when a president actually takes the word on kim jong un on the brutal death and torturing and beating of an Ohio College Student any more than theyre thrilled when donald trump take the world of Vladimir Putin or takes the word of the leader of saudi arabia over the torture and bone saw murder of a Washington Post columnist and yet this is what they do. As hyman roth would say in godfather part two, this is the job they have chosen. Its a sorry job. I asked about Otto Warmbier and he clearly wanted to say pretty directly that he was on the side of Otto Warmbiers family and that he believed that kim was involved in what had happened. I do think there are some Foreign Policy issues where you do see republicans being more willing to speak out, but the reality is theres not a lot that they can do. And kind of across the board on domestic issues, whenever we see Something Like what we saw at cpac for two hours, we watched that hearing, there want a republican in there defending the president s actions and yet they wont criticize him either. Republicans will say behind the scenes it was indefensible what Michael Cohen laid out as having happened but at the same time they do remain silent about it or in the case of a group in the house, they go out there and they defend this president. And again, they cant live with him but they really cant live without him and right now they are repeatedly choosing their own political survival over speaking out in a way about many of the abuses that they will talk about pretty openly in private. They do, Mike Barnicle. It like save your breath. Its time to Start Talking about it publicly. Theyll all talk about it privately. But again, just this past week and this has been happening for two and a half years, you have a president who, again, had to be corrected by grieving parents who lost their boy after the president said kim jong un tells me he had nothing to do with the murder of Otto Warmbier. And of course the parents were upset. So he takes the side of a tyrant over the killing of an Ohio College Student. He takes the side of saudi crown princes over the word of our Intel Community, over the slaughter, then the bone saw killing, the assassination of a Washington Post journalist. He takes the word of Vladimir Putin on damaging our democracy over the word of every person that hes appointed, not on the intel communities but also the secretary of Homeland Security and on top of that they sit there and theyre running resistance for the president of the United States when its very clear that were seeing evidence of a president being part of possibly a conspiracy to commit a felony to violate federal laws involving his run for the presidency. And you have Kevin Mccarthy going much adieu about nothing. No, actually, kevin thats a felony that will land you in jail if you do the same thing. And, joe, youre right on every point you just raised. Again, it gets back to what we talked about in the earlier hour and that we almost talk about every day here, the outlaw of niagara has so diminished the average rage in this country. Yesterday, i believe, you had a long, tended report extended da political caucus over there. You went to notre dame so im sure you know a little bit about a lot. History is a constant st stenograph stenographer, recording incidents of our lives. And yet your column yesterday, i was astounded not really astounded but surprised about the number of people you i encountered who are willing to accept outrages statements from the president of the United States, not paying attention to the fact that history is going to record this and theyre going to have to answer it at some point. Cpac was a celebration of President Trump but it was also a celebration of the end of the Republican Party, the modern Republican Party, going back to the days of william f. Buckley and Barry Goldwater, the conservative principles that have guided that party in the half century, erased and replaced by this veneration of a republican figure in President Trump and c pack npac owns the. It is the institution, it is the power source. You see them having speakers calling President Trump a politician, quote, chosen by god, a 16foot painting that people are taking pictures of of President Trump, almost like hes someone who is beyond this world. That is the scene at cpac. That is the Republican Party. And republicans on capitol hill a few miles away often tell me they want to ignore this reality, accept a bargain on a tax cut, and some of them like that bargain, they say they can swallow it, they dont like this base but they do acknowledge that is the reality. And bringing it back to the death of american student Otto Warmbier, here is President Trump talking about that at the vietnam summit and followed by the president trying to walk it back at cpac and john bolton trying to wangle his way through it at the sunday shows. Take a listen. I did speak about it. I dont believe that he would have allowed that to happen. It just want to his advantage to allow that to happen. Those prisons are rough. Theyre rough places and bad things happened, but i really dont believe that he was i dont believe he knew about it. He knew the case very well, but he knew it later. But he tells me he didnt know about it and i will take him at his word. Otto warmbier, whose parents ive gotten to know, who is incredible and im in such a horrible position because in one way i have to negotiate and the other way i love mr. And mrs. Warmbier and i love otto. And eight very, very delicate balance. He was a special young man and to see what happened was so bad, was so bad. And a lot of what i do with respect to north korea and any success that we hopefully have and weve had a lot, were given no credit. When he says im going to take him at his word, it doesnt mean that he accepts it as reality, it means he accepts that thats what kim jong un said. So when he said i take him at his word it doesnt mean he believes kim jong un . Well, thats what he said. The best thing north korea could do right now would be to give us a full accounting of what happened. Do you take kim jong un at his word . He does but what about you . My opinion doesnt matter. Youre the National Security adviser to the president. Im not the i have the exact quote here. Donald trump said, i dont believe he knew about it. Theres no finessing that. Theres no getting out of that, mika. Donald trump said in north korea, i dont believe he knew about it, just like when he was in helsinki. He basically threw every one of his intel officials under the bus when he said i dont believe Vladimir Putin knew about russian interference in american democracy. Just like he threw our Intel Community under the bus given when he said i dont believe that Mohammed Bin Salman knew about the grizzly bone saw murder of jamal khashoggi. This is a man who continues to side with tyrants. I dont know how anybody could watch those three three sound bites in a row or listen to the president on any of these dictators and think thats where we want fob to be as citizens ie United States of america. Youre right. But i would submit to you we are exactly where we want to be and i think the numbers we talked about in the last hour gives credence to that. You have a president who is sitting at a significant level of job approval and that translates for a lot of folks out there. And what you see i think robert costa put it exactly right about whats happened manifested at cpac is a new form of idolitry. They offer up their future Political Support when this stand there for two hours and applaud the nastiness by towards a hero by johnson so this is the new space, this is the new party. In term of where we go from here, we have to look at each other in the mirror and go this is us . Are we now this america where these things are less important to us and less ra less regarded. And whys did the preside doe support kim over american intelligence . I dont think thats what hes saying. We have to pursue matters of american interests. Foreign leaders who are friends of ours lie to our face as well. This is nothing new in international relations. Why does the president say publicly hes willing to side with dictators over americans . Hes not saying hes siding with dictators over americans. He has expressed his opinions on what theyve said on these various points. Kasie hunt, i applaud the attempt to try and explain why President Trump would side with someone like Vladimir Putin or kim jong un in the face of a murder of an Person College student, using his parents. The president using his parents as props to their disgust, but i dont think theres much of an explanation for it and i wonder exactly where our Foreign Policy stands if this is what john boltons job is to try to explain the inexplicable. I personally would like to hear john bolton list out all of the times who he said foreign leaders who are our friends lie to our faces. Id like to know what hes talking about, quite frankly. Because obviously our relationships with nato countries, for example, with great britain, the united kingdom, i mean, canada, remarkable strain at a time when the president is cozying up with these dictators. He said in the cpac speech hes in a tough spot because he has this relationship with kim jong un and he feels for Otto Warmbiers family. Theres a United States family who lost their son to and enemy of america. Were you talking about Otto Warmbier or Jamal Khashoggis wife and children . He keeps doing this, he keeps siding with foreign dictator tie ran tyrants, the worst of the worst. And he does it unapologetically. And again, we know donald trump, all of us know who he is now. The question is why do the republicans continue to side with him . Its inexplicable. Bob costa, yesterday you wrote this at the highest level of the party, the presidency, the gop is driven by at all other levels the partys mostly cast a bewildered and often quiet hawks. That buy bewilderment seems to from the top of the party. They dont like him. They really dont defend him behind closed doors. What is it, completely different by fear of donald trump . And driven by power. A party of bewildered hawks in the Foreign Policy establishment. Their values now theyre faced with this personalitydriven nationalist who doesnt really have a coherent policy and yet because of power and their desire to be part of the decisionmaking process and some believe they can guide the president , they join this administration from yet time and again from secretary tillerson to Ambassador Haley to secretary pompeo, they struggle to try to articulate this president s vision for the world and his lack of focus on human rights. You know, Mike Barnicle, were talking about where the bewildered party is right now. You look at cpac over this past weekend, people saying that jesus personally selected donald trump to be president of the United States, you see a standing ovation when people denigrate the memory of an american war hero, a republican, Something Like that has just never happened before in the history of this republic that i know of, that an american war hero who did all that john mccain did for this country, the announcement of his death, the reminder of his death would bring people standing to their feet. And then the complete stupidity of others talking about how the democrats are coming for your hamburgers, just like stalin came for hamburgers. Of course we all know stalin went after the kulaks, just the stupidity to have it reduced to a hamburger because some freshman lawmaker put something in a talking point sheet is again kwus the complete trivial saegs of politics. The this is a personality cult. Historians will remember this, they can get mad at me if i want, i dont really care, read the history books. They will be talking about donald trump creating a personal cult in american politics. And, joe, this is on us. This is on the American Voter of both parties, of any any ideolol stripe. Its on us. The right to vote, its free people. No matter where you can coome f you can vote. And millions of people did not vote. And now the meaning and the opinions of the president has been altered becauperhaps for a, long time, we dont know that. And this is what were left with. Were left with a Political Party that joe has ponlt and this Political Party has defined itself in a single moment on saturday, right across the Potomac River from the Capitol Building of the United States, right across the river from the white house, from the lincoln memorial, from the vietnam war memorial and it defined itself by one single act, basically when someone on the stage, donelle donald j. Trump said basically john mccain is dead and that received a standing ovation. That is not america. We have a president who just tells stark lies. Theyve become quickly accepted truths and whatever he says, whatever he says, whatever he does is accepted as being okay, even if it violates constitutional norms. We can talk about the emergency powers, we can talk about what ted cruz and mike lee and everybody else said about barack obama signing president ial executive orders. I said the same thing myself. Now they turn around and give donald trump even more power for use of emergency power, undermining so donald trump asked for it and you know what . That are going to do it. While were talking about people who have made mistake after mistake after mistake, lets talk about the media, too, and the runup to the election. Theres a reason why a lot of people didnt get out to vote. A lot of people didnt get out to vote because everybody in the media was so arrogant. They all said hillary was going to win. If you even suggested that there was a possibility, even a little possibility that donald trump might get 270 electoral votes, you were mocked and ridiculed and run from the blapublic squa. Guess what that did . That depressed voter turnout because everybody was sure, barack obama was sure, james comey was sure, the fbi was sure, everybody acted in a way that made it seem a fait accompli that donald trump wouldnt be elected. Hes at 46 now. Lets see just how arrogant and how stupid the know it alls in the Mainstream Media are in 2020. Lets see if theyll do it again. Lets see if theyll mock and ridicule us again, bob costa, for saying donald trump could win. Mika said it, i said it, Steve Schmidt said it, Mark Halperin said it. The fact that we get mocked and ridiculed for suggesting that donald trump could win, that shows people they dont have to vote. Everybody on the idiot box is saying hillarys going to win, im just going to stay at home, my vote doesnt couldnt. He won in part because he seized on that populous anger and issues of immigration. But lets remember here in 2019. In 2020 that populous anger is still there and President Trump could seize on it again and perhaps win reelection. But senator Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren could take the same anger and say lets go after the banks and you could have a democratic socialist win this white house. As we learned in 2016, can you not assume anything anymore in american politics. Nope, you cant. Robert costa, thank you so much. And still ahead on morning joe. Senator bob casey joins us. Well see if hes got an early favorite in the president ial race. Plus Chris Christie was part of the trump transition team. Well get his take on the controversy surrounding Jared Kushners security clearance. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Well be right back. So we improved everything. G. We used 50 fewer ingredients. Added onehanded pumps. And beat the top safety standards. Johnsons® choose gentle. Webut some of us turn outhose dreams. Into action. The bookers. The doers. The hit that confirmation button and lets go ers because bookers know that the Perfect Place to stay. Is right there for the booking. Be a booker at booking. Com the worlds 1 choice for booking accommodations. Uh uh i deliverberty the news around here. Sources say Liberty Mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Over to you, logo. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. All of you. How you live, what you love. Thats what inspired us to create americas most advanced internet. Internet that puts you in charge. That protects whats important. It handles everything, and reaches everywhere. This is beyond wifi, this is xfi. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity, the future of awesome. Welcome back to morning joe joe. Weve been running through the poll numbers, among the questions how voters view the economy. 34 see the coming year as a time of expansion and opportunity. While 59 think its a time to hold back with harder times ahead. Last week the government announced the gdp grew 2. 6 in the Fourth Quarter and for 2018 the estimates fall below the 3 that President Trump had targeted. Joining us new, cnbc editor at large john harwood. John writes of last weeks report President Trumps central claim about his economic policies officially crashed into reality on thursday. Randall lane is out with a new piece entitled reimagining the economy. We knew even before he was elected president of the United States deficits were going to be going up over the next five to six years. He certainly expedited that process, but also that most economists over time were expecting a slowdown. It looks like that slowdown is coming. Thats right. The longtime Growth Potential before he took office was seen at about 2 based on labor supplies productivity. When they passed a tax cut late in 2017. Expected there would be a quick burst of stimulus before they reversed the trend. The Federal Reserve says it will be right back and the white house insists that those numbers are wrong and that wieell be oa lasting 3 growth path but other economists dont see it. I want to ask you about capitalism. You talk about a capitalism about authentic, accessible and accountable. Right now we have a wave in this country of people talking about socialism and Government Services and a shift to a more mixed economy so to speak. Im curious. Weve now seen two elections in a row, 2016 and 2018 where despite a rising economy and growth, the incumbent party was beat i dont knen and in the ca, totally shellacked. And i wonder what you say to people are respond to, socialism, maybe this is good. I talked to warren buffett, jeff bezos about what is it, among millennials and genz, this idea of capitalism and it boil down to do i have a chance . 20 of america doesnt believe that the American Dream is possible for themselves, let alone their family. So its really about that idea that does capitalism work where some people are getting it and im not. Its that other niche, the act that somebody else is getting ahead and im not thats driving a lot of that. We sit here talk about the economy, 3 growth, somewhere outside akron aye o, ohio, a con their mid 40s with two kids, maybe in 7th grade, 8th grade, how would they define it . Im not sure they would because intellectuals worry about things like that. Most worry about their own prosperity and they dont think about it. Show me a socialist country that is prosperous. There never has been within. Socialism has failed and failed and failed and failed and failed and failed. Is the explaining of the economics of this country . A huge percentage of people dont owe stocks. Every day the dow is up, the dow is down. They dont know what were talking about. Well, actually, the majority of stock is not owned by jeff bezos and company, theyre owned by 401 k s and pnension plans ad mutual funds and stuff like that. Capitalism has never done so democratic as it is today. If the economy is doing so great, why is the president so unpopular and why are people soin happy about the state of the country . Is there a disconnect between Economic Indicators and the actual lives of people and the actual whos benefiting from certain kinds of growth and who isnt . 100 theres a disconnect. When we talk about the state of the economy, people are talking about how fast are we growing, how large are corporate profits, what are they expected to be in the future . Thats reflected in stock prices. Weve seen income inequality has expanded. You have a subset people who are prospering very well and a very large number of people who arent. And talking about john steele gordon, do americans have a philosophy about this on, they react to labels. If you ask people what do you think about capitalism, you get a very good number. 50 say they think its a view it favor when i, 18 negatively. So socialism is unpopular as a label. However, in the same poll, what we saw was 55 of americans say government should do more to help them. Okay, government perhaps are what were talking about when we talk about a mixed economy, democratic socialism, but the massive people who have not been moving ahead watch nt more help from government and thats the core issue. Im not sure 50 is a good number for capitalism. This is a pillar for americans and on half of americans say theyre in that. Its better than 18. This is something as philosophical as democracy, were build on a capital system. You have 96 approve of Small Business. Capital of has ceased to mean that i have a shot and i can build business. Its become a pay scheme in peoples heads. Its interesting that some of the billionaires you spoke to have very interesting ideas, much better ideas, seemingly theyre problem solvers. Yeah. We have the forbes billionaire last Co Billionaire list coming out tomorrow. Twothirds are american citizen and 11 are immigrants so democracy works. If youre a woman trying to start a business, if youre an africanamerican, if youre sitting there in ohio or in iowa, its harder. So the idea the capital system, warn buffett says in my piece its never been stronger, but there are people who dont theres a huge, huge slice of america that doesnt feel this exactly. John harwood, thank you so much. You also interviewed Maryland Governor for your speak easy series. Well be looking for that. And randall lane, well be reading your new piece this morning entitled reimagining capitalism. Thank you all for joining us. And still ahead, the testimony we did not see from Michael Cohen last night. Well have his questioning with lawmakers about possible obstruction of justice. T possibe obstruction of justice with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. So even when she grows up, shell never outgrow the memory of our adventure. Unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. Only with expedia. Select hotels to your existing trip. Youll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day. Ou . Complicated relationship with milk . Pour on the lactaid, 100 real milk, just without that annoying lactose. Mmm, thats good. Driven each day to pursue bioplifechanging cures. Ers. In a country built on fostering innovation. Here, they find breakthroughs. Like a way to fight cancer by arming a patients own tcells. And a new therapy that gives the blind a working gene so they can see again. Because its not just about the next breakthrough. Its all the ones after that. Voted to block the president s Emergency Declaration to build a border wall. And now it appears the senate may do the same. Well talk to lawmakers who have both come out against trumps border emergency. Morning joe will be right morning joe will be right b i think the best companies succeed as a team, and our shirts from custom ink help bring us together. We just upload our logo, and if we have any questions, Customer Service is there to help. [male] custom ink has hundreds of products to help you look and feel like a team. Get started today at customink. Com. To help you look and feel like a team. [ sighing ] oh my momma she gave me these feathered breaths oh my momma check in from afar with remote access. And have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. Demo in an xfinity store, call, or go online today. Joining us now, democratic congresswoman Sharice Davids of c kansas and democratic senator bob casey of pennsylvania. Fascinating poll numbers out. Senator casey, id like to start with you. Our new poll shows that the president is very strong against a generic democrat in your state. What do pennsylvanians like about donald trump 2020 . The challenge is that the nominee of our party and i think well arrive at a nominee who can do this, has to be able to compete not only in urban and suburban communities but has to get some share of what i would call rural and small town pennsylvania. And youve got to be able to do both. I think our nominee will be able to do that. But its still very early. I know theres a lot of analysis this early. Its very difficult to make a prediction today. But i have confidence no, im not asking for a prediction. What do pennsylvanians like about him. What makes him do so strongly in pennsylvania . Look, i think whenever a president has an economy thats doing well i would argue that the president inherited a roaring economy which is a tremendous benefit. Whenever thats the case, the incumbent president will do pretty well. I rather talk about what i think democrats can do to change the circumstances in 2020 and i think part of that is running on a platform of raising wages which i think is the number one issue in the country in terms of our domestic issues. Weve had a country or an economy in this country whe where for 40 years the raise wage has been 4 and other things have been going through the roof. Democrats have a strong economic message they can win pennsylvania and be elected president. Kasie hunt. To that exact point. Youve seen these divisions in the party playing out in the house of Democratic Caucus of late, alexandria occasiocortez talking about a list of potential moderate democrats who could end up facing primary challenges because they are not voting with the party on certain procedural votes in this particular case. Are there the evenings between the moderate, the new moderate members of the house and those on the left like alexandria occasiocortez who calls herself a socialist . Tensions, i dont know if thats the right word necessarily. I think when you think about what is the Democratic Party . We are a broadly diverse set of people with a lot of, you know, there are a lot of new members that came within a lot of different kind of ideas how we can see progress in this country. And, you know, to think that were going to have exact agreement on every single thing all the time, you know, i dont know that thats the case, but that doesnt mean that there are huge divides amongst the Democratic Caucus. I personally, i consider myself to be very pragmatic, the folks in kansas want to elect people who are pragmatic. That means sometimes ill agree and sometimes disagree not just with folks in the Republican Party but the Democratic Party. I think thats the case. Were not seeing people not talking to each other. There are a lot of really great conversations going on about how do we make progress in this country. In the house this week well see a vote on hr1, big bill for the House Democrats. And strikingly its not a jobs bill or a climate bill its an anticorruption bill, a quoteunquote reform bill. Tell us why this is the First Priority of the House Democrats and talk to us a bit about the bits on the Voting Rights where you can actually petition doj from the state to do voting investigation. So, you know, i think that hr1 gets to the heart of what a lot of folks feel is a problem with our government and elected officials. We have a lack of trust between our government and the way its being operated and the people who depend on our government to make sure that we all have access to opportunity, and when we think about what is the core of that . A lot of it has to do with huge amounts of money that are in politics and we need to increase the transparency of that. It also has to do very acutely and as somebody from kansas, you know, our secretary of state made it hard for people eligible to vote. He made it so much harder for folks to get to the ballot box. Lopez was just out in d. C. Testifying about hr1 and the need to protect the rights of people who are eligible to vote to get to the ballot box. How would it help them, this bill . This bill, particularly the piece of hr1 and the part that im putting up has a lot to do with making sure that theres accountability and that every vote counts. So if you have someone who is blocking your ability to vote that can you go straight to the department of justice and, you know, you have some recourse there to make sure that youre not being left out of the democratic process. Its really the foundation of our democracy. So, about 25 years ago james carrville, a friends of yours, his description of pennsylvania was this philadelphia on one end, pittsburgh on the other end and alabama in the middle. To your point about the next candidate for the democratic nomination he has to address that. This president of the United States is an expert at dividing and injecting fear into the electorate, fear of people coming through the border in south texas. How do you address the fear and the division that has been so successful for the president in term of the Democratic Party . Well, part of the reason why the president has done fairley well lately in and a lot of people dont want to admit this hes been running against washington 24 hours a day. The only institution in our country which is more unpopular than any politician is washington. Thats always going to give him a lift in the economic realities i mentioned earlier. But to win our state, ive won six statewide elections. Ive been doing this a while. You got to compete in those communities in the middle of the state which are more red. Increasingly southwestern pennsylvania is becoming an area where it used to be overwhelmingly democratic, now its not. But i think its entirely possible to do that and im living proof of that. In the last election we had a record turn out and a record performance numbers in both i did and Governor Wolf did in those communities that are suburban and urban for an off year election but also able to compete in those other communities. Part of that is the economic message. Part of it also i think on the issue of immigration is reminding people in those communities that when democrats talk about broad immigration reform, part of that and a fundamental part of it is border security. I do think the latest debate we had over the last two months or so reminded people that democrats have a strong position on effective border security. If you do that you can compete in addition to having that very, strong economic message which the president s tax bill, i think, undermines. Yeah. Senator bob kasey and congresswoman davis. Thank you both. Still ahead much more on the president s free wheeling appearance at cpac. Plus former governor Chris Christie with his take on the president s legal exposure after the cohen hearing and those hush money checks signed by trump while in office. Morning joe is back in a moment. K in a moment at fidelity, we make sure you have a clear plan to cover the essentials in retirement, as well as all the things you want to do. Because when youre ready for what comes next, the only direction is forward. If ywhen you brush or floss, you dont have to choose between healthy gums and strong teeth. Complete protection from parodontax has 8 designed benefits for healthy gums and strong teeth. Complete protection from parodontax. Cancer, epilepsy, Mental Health, hiv. Patients with serious diseases are being targeted for cuts to their medicare drug coverage. New government restrictions would allow Insurance Companies to come between doctor and patient. And deny access to individualized therapies millions depend on. Call the white house today. Help stop cuts to part d drug coverage that put medicare patients at risk. danny s voice of course you donte because you didnt . Help stop cuts to part d drug coverage your job isnt doing hard work. Its making them do hard work. And getting paid for it. vo snap and sort your expenses to save over 4,600 at tax time. Quickbooks. Backing you. How do you gaveeno® happy 24 7 . With prebiotic oat. It hydrates and softens skin. So it looks like this. And you feel like this. Aveeno® daily moisturizer get skin happy™ President Trump spoke at the cpac conference for two hours and 20 minutes straight. It started out with him coming out hugging the American Flag like lenny from mice and men. What the hell was that . Somehow it got craziyer from there. Heres a taste. Our country is in big trouble, folks, because we have to get it back. Darling, is the wind blowing today . I would like to watch television. The attorney general says im going to recuse myself. Im in the white house and i was lonely. I said lets go the iraq. General one, general two, general three. Whats your name . Sir, my name is raisin. What hell kind of a name. Raisin like the fruit . 7 trillion and we have to fly in with no lights. Please gate us the emails. Please. Im going to regret this speech. Yeah. Well, at least hes selfaware. That was how saturday night live summed up the president s address to cpac. This morning well take our own stab at it. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is monday, march 4th. With us we have Mike Barnicle. Political writer for the New York Times and msnbc political analyst nick confessore. Msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the Republican National committee Michael Steele is with us. Well start with President Trumps job Approval Ratings. Up three points from january to 46 . 52 disapproving in the latest nbc news wall street journal poll. Trump scores best with republicans. 60 of rural residents and whites without College Degrees as well as 54 of men and whites. While the president s least popular among africanamericans, 88 disapprove. 64 of latinos disapprove. 61 of women disapprove japan. Disapproval among Young Americans is 57 . 55 among College Educated whites. 51 among independents. This as 41 of voters say they are likely to vote for trump in 2020. While 48 pick the democratic candidate. Compared to previous president s those numbers are worse than what barack obama faced at this point in the 2012 cycle when he led his hypothetical opponent by five points while President Trump is closer to bill clintons numbers. In january of 1995, when only 38 said they would reelect the president. Joe, what did you think when you first saw these numbers . I thought of bill clinton. Michael steele, it seemed that the more bad news befell bill clinton the higher his Approval Ratings went. And by the time he was impeached and by the time it was evident he committed perjury, by the time he had been stripped of practicing before the bar in arkansas and the Supreme Court even stripped him of his rights to practice in front of the bar there for lying under oath, his approval r were over 60 . I mean there were snl skits about there where darriel hammond said i can go out in the street and smoke pot and ill be just fine. Well donald trump faced one of his worst weeks in the last week. One of his worst month in the last few months. You and i have never met a politician who would be excited about 41 reelect. This is about as high as donald trump has gotten. Whats happening . Its interesting if im donald trump im looking at this and i go im not doing that badly. Im hanging there. Theyve thrown a lot at me. I got investigations coming at me from the right and left. Yet with the core of his base and certainly probably elements within the general population, theres something about trump thats still very appealing and i think for a lot of those folks behind those numbers is the state of the current economy. Where things are for those individuals. Their families. Their job prospects. Their Small Business. Still relatively good. Yes, theres some weaknesses around the edges. Theres some concerns about whether or not a recession will kick in by the second or Third Quarter this year. But right now in this moment people feel very, very good. If im trump i go to cpac and give a two and a half hour speech because i know i can. What it does it adds another layer of drama and commitment about a presidency thats had a lot of drama and excitement. Hes in a good spot as he wakes up this morning and he probably is looking at the numbers and going what do the democrats have to off center what will you beat me with . That 41 thats a tough number but to get that extra five or six extra points in the next year i think i can do that. You can say drama and excitement at the cpac speech. Obviously people inside the room thought it was. It was also one of his most unhinged speeches. Well certainly get to a lot of the things he said. But, again, take a couple of sentences out here. A couple of sentence out there. Mike barnicle it would be disqualifying itself for any politician, for any president , not for donald trump. You know this past weekend i was with the six, seven republicans, all of them still support donald trump and they were poking me and laughing. I was poking them. We were going back and forth. But its so much like 2016 when i said 2016 was not about trump, it was about Hillary Clinton. You asked whether they support donald trump. They talk about democrats. They dont talk about donald trump. They dont defend him any more. Its like i dont want this person to be president. I dont want that person to be president. Those people dont understand me. They are from another world. Its this disconnect that somehow this manhattan billionaire, supposed billionaire has figured out how to connect on with people in Middle America and democrats still arent. Yeah. Joe, i dont disagree with that assessment. I think its fairley accurate. Nor do i disagree with michael claiming legitimately so that the economy, the state of the economy has a lot to do with those numbers that we just read. Oblivious a blizzard of numbers there. I think, though, theres a Little Something larger going on and i think what it is, is those numbers that we just read, at this staege of his presidency, after the two hour 20minute rambling speech before cpac on saturday they prove, i think, that Donald Trumps sustained assault on the nature of the presidency, on our democracy, on common sense, on truth, a sustained daily assault has had a huge impact on the average American Voter. They accept things now from the mouth and the behavior of a president of the United States that they would not have accepted from any prior president , nor do i think they would accept it from any of the Democratic Candidates running to succeed him. You know, mika, as you know to your consternation, i mean it bugs you, and it has for some time that im constantly trying to figure out what the other side thinks. Whether im a republican and they are liberal democrats, whatever, and the same thing with trump supporters, just trying to figure it out. What am i missing. What are my blind spots. There are a lot of blind spots. Yeah. Im trying to figure out what people on the far left are thinking. Im trying foig out what trump is thinking. But there is no reasoning through some of the hellacious things that were said at cpac this last week. Theres no explaining away some of the inhumane statements that were made at cpac. Some of the inane statements. Stupid. No other word but stupid. There were a lot of low points there for a conference that i used to go over tory year. The worst, of course, was the celebration of john mccains death. And the fact that the announcement of john mccains death and the mocking and the attacking of quote john mccains ghost caused the people of cpac to rise to their fine thunderous applause, if you can imagine that these people, who obviously, again, i dont know if they werent raised right, i dont know if their mothers and fathers never taught them basic values, im sure they did, im sure they just lost it along the way. Maybe they were just swept up in the excitement of actually being somewhere. I dont know. But when you applaud the death of an american war hero, a man who was imprisoned and beaten so badly that he couldnt even raise his arms over his head for the rest of his life, a man who was allowed to go free early but refused to, said he wasnt going walk out until his band of brothers walked out with him, who wasnt going to get ahead of anybody else who had been in the hanoi hilton. When you applaud the death of that man at cpac, when actually very little separates you and that man that you were mocking, who recently died by the way, whose wife and whose children suffered with him and watched him suffering and battling cancer and slowly dying, to see now that his death was something that cpac would applaud, something that cpac would think was a great thing to be excited about, something that not only republicans that spoke at that event who were john mccains john mccains coworkers in the senate for years. The fact that donald trump has caused this, and the Republican Party, hes caused this in american politics actually, i think, is probably going to be his worse legacy. Many terrible, terrible legacies. Those people that sit up and applauded for john mccains death, it says to you, they may not be bad people but you sure as hell gave a gate good impression of what a bad person looks like. I mean this and i do mean this with all the love in my heart, understanding that we all make mistakes and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god, i really do hope that this monday morning when you wake up you think about that moment and you feel a little ashamed. Yeah. Feel a little ashamed and you tell yourself i got to do better next time. I can support donald trump without being hateful. I can support donald trump and still not devalue the worth of human beings that dont look exactly like me, who dont think exactly like me, who dont worship exactly like me. Its not too much to ask. Just think about it. Thats all im saying. Just think about it this morning. Still ahead on morning joe it sort of sounded like a speech. Made up a thousand tweets all lined up after another. Donald trump jumps from topic to topic to topic in the longest and perhaps oddest address of his presidency. Youre watching morning joe. Hell be right back. Hear those words. Stage 2 breast cancer. 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Get 250 back when you preorder a new samsung galaxy. Click, call, or visit a store today. Republicans are rallying around President Trump. Hes firing up his base with that highly partisan appeal as Mike Barnicle called it a constant assault. This assault clocked in at over two hours. Donald trump gave the longest speech of his presidency at cpac on saturday. There was no vision for america. He just ran through a list of grievances ranging from coverage of his crowd sizes. He went back to his it was kind of cute, he was going back to his crowd size at the inauguration for, my gosh, 15 minutes maybe . Also his enemies in the media and special counsel Robert Muellers office. Rambling a lot. At times using profane language. This is how i got elected by being off script. [ cheers and applause ] if we dont go off script, our country is in big trouble, folks because we have to get it back. The attorney general said im going recuse myself. [ laughter ] and i said, why the hell didnt he tell me that before i put him in . How do you recuse yourself . But the person that appointed Robert Mueller never received a vote. Robert mueller put 13 of the angriest democrats in the history of our country on the commission. The Green New Deal. Right . New green deal i encourage it. I think its really something that they should promote no planes, no energy, when the wind stops blowing thats the end of your electric. [ laughter ] darling, darling, is the wind blowing today . I would like to watch television, darling. [ laughter ] if you tell a joke, if youre sarcastic, if youre having fun with the audience, if youre on Live Television with millions of people and 25,000 people in an arena, and if you Say Something like, russia, please, if you can, get us Hillary Clintons emails. Please russia, please. Please get us the emails. [ cheers and applause ] please. So everybody is having a good time. Im laughing, were all having fun. And then that fake cnn and others say, he asked russia to go get the emails. Horrible. I mean i saw it like two weeks ago. Im watching and they are talking about one of the points, he asked russia for the emails. These people are sick. Were waiting for a report by people that werent elected. Think of this. We had the greatest election in all fairness i used to hear andrew jackson, this was now greater than the election of andrew jackson. People say that. We had the greatest of all time. Now we have people that lost and, unfortunately, you put the wrong people in a couple of positions. And they leave people for a long time that shouldnt be there. And all of a sudden they are trying to take you out with [bleep] okay. With [bleep] so much to talk about there. First of all, those people that were quote trying to take him out are people that he appointed or people that his appointments appointed, whether youre talking about, as he said jeff sessions, a republican, Christopher Wray a republican. You can go down the long list of people. I mean they are republicans. Rod rosenstein, a republican. Bob mueller a life long republican. You just go down the list. Of course, thats nonsense. Also he accuses the media for being sick. For something that the media didnt do, that we didnt talk about jokes that he told in front of crowds of 25,000. We all have talked about a press conference he had where he looked into the camera without a smile on his face and without any intention ever telling a joke saying russia, if you have the emails, send them. And i think the reason, of course, why hes lying about that is, hes feeling the pressure because, mika, of course, is the night when the gru, russias military intel arm began trying to hack into the dnc. So, this is all his people have all said, even his secretary of Homeland Security, theyve all said that russias hacking in 2016 continued hacking is a threat to american democracy. So, he can pretend its a joke and key pass it off as a joke and who knows. Maybe there will be a couple people that lack knowledge and are ignorant enough to believe it was a joke of course it wasnt. Mika, the there is so much more than this. People have decided they will support donald trump no matter what happens, no matter what evidence comes out. Hes got his 40 , 41 saying hell vote for him and nothing will ever change that as he said during the campaign he can shoot somebody on fifth avenue and people would still vote for him. We now of a cult of personality that would allow that to happen. I have no doubt he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and that 41 would have been swept into this cult of personality would still support him. Thats not said in anger. Thats not said in despair. Thats just a basic logical conclusion based upon everything weve seen. Over the past two and a half years. Thats where we are in american politics and democrats have to figure out a way to break enough americans out of a spell to actually get somebody back in the white house that respects madisonian democracy. That can win, actually. Which some would argue were a long way away from knowing who that person is. Coming up on morning joe, former governor Chris Christie is standing by. He joins the conversation straight ahead on morning joe. I have. I have. Thanksmrs. Murphy. Unitedhealthcare, hi, i need help getting an appointment with my podiatrist. Hows wednesday at 2 . I cant. Dog agility. n. Tuesday at 11 . Nope. Robot cage match. How about the 28th at 3 . Done. With Unitedhealthcare Medicare advantage plans, including the only plans with the aarp name, theres so much to take advantage of. 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Were working together to do just that. Bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. Smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. Because we know mom wants whats best. More beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. Balanceus. Org joining us now former new jersey governor, 2016 republican president ial candidate and trump transition chair, Chris Christie. His new memoir is entitled let me finish. Its a New York Times best seller. I still think he stole my title. Anyhow, governor christie good to have you on the show this morning. I have a million questions. Why did donald trump hire Michael Cohen as his attorney . Beats me. Do you know . Beats me. Listen, i never could quite understand the relationship. I think the president probably has a difficult time understanding it now. But, you know, cohen is not someone i interacted with almost at all, mika, and that wasnt by accident. Governor, over the weekend, im sure youre aware, the president spoke to conservative Political Action committee. Might still be speaking. I think his speech ended after two hours. Among many extraordinary things that happened at the speech was the president S Performance in and of itself, i dont know whether you saw it. I saw parts of it. One of the things that occurred during the convention is the death of john mccain was literally the announcement that he was dead and had been dead, which everybody knew but they announced it in terms of a political thing. Received a standing ovation from parts of the crowd assembled. So the question is, is that your Political Party . No. Thats not people that i would agree with. You know, mike, theres always been elements of my party that i havent agreed with. Right . I think thats normal for any Political Party. Im sure there are folks who have heard some of the things that alexandria occasiocortez is saying that are mainstream democrats saying no, thats not the party that i belong, to even though that may be where the energy is right now in the Democratic Party. So, i try not to i speak my disagreements. I disagree with that. Its horribly disrespectful the same way that i said i disagreed when the president as a candidate said that john mccain wasnt a war hero. Right . So you have to stand up to say when you disagree. Doesnt make you not a republican any more. Thats not the way i view it. Party has a lot of different elements to it. You agree with the parts that you agree with. Like being a cafeteria catholic. But the governor, Joe Scarbrough here, arent we in a different place. I cant remember a time when a convention of democrats stood and gave a standing ovation when the announcement of, you know, george h. W. Bush or Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater or Dwight Eisenhower was announced. This is a new place. This is a deeply disturbing place that this party is in. Listen, i think that both parties, joe, are in disturbing times. I do. Not both parties. Name me a time when democrats at a convention had stood and cheered the death of a republican. Well, i would have to think about whether they ever stood and cheered of a democrat. Thats the analogy. The analogy is the cheering of death of one of their own. I cant think of one off the top of my head, joe, as an example of that. But my point to you is broader. Which is that that is indicative of the fact that things are very different than when i first started coming on this program. When i first started coming on this program i was being cheered by folks of both parties for working with both sides. But its different because of donald trump, is it not . Even when republicans and democrats didnt get along and that has been going on a long time, you still didnt have people cheering the death of a political figure who crossed their dear leader. No. But i do think that the president has contributed to that but i think that his election in part was a reaction to that divisiveness that already existed. If you go back, joe i think this all started during the clinton impeachment in the late 90s with some very harsh lines were drawn between both parties. It continued on i remember sitting at george w. Bushs inaugural in 01 and having people standing up and screaming that he was not the president of the United States, he was an illegitimate president. That moved into barack obama and the ridiculous system of birthism. This has been going on for a long time and increasing in intensity. You know from covering our primary in 2016, it was a very difficult place for a lot of us to try to figure out and navigate. Even me, i think, im very direct, blunt person and was known that way, was seen not as tough enough in the times that were talk about then. So i wouldnt say this is something that just happened in the last two years. This is something that has happened in the last 20 years progressively since the clinton impeachment. Let me ask and i dont want to belabor this point. I just want to be very clear here. Do you consider john mccain to be an american hero, to be a war hero . Without question. Without question. Somebody who deserves you dont have to go any further. A great man. A Great American hero. An american hero. Who was in that hanoi hilton for six and a half years. Wouldnt leave early despite he had the opportunity to. Put his men and country first. I didnt always agree with senator mccain on issues but put that aside the guy was a sterling example of what it means to be a patriot. And ive never questioned that. I will never question that. The same way no one should ever question the toughness of george h. W. Bush. Yet we had the wimp factor for a guy who was shot down in world war ii and survived. We had some really awful divisive stuff the same way, by the way, no one should ever question whether barack obama was born in this country or not. Right. Which is what trump did. President trump did that. I disagreed with it then, i disagree with it now. So federal prosecutors in new york and d. C. Believe Michael Cohen is credible. Trump and his team at the white house and a lot of republicans say hes not. What do you think . Well, listen, i dont believe hes credible. I believe hes credible only if hes corroborated. Unlike a lot of people that talk about this stuff, mika, as you know, i actually had to do it for seven years. I put a lot of people on the stand who were serial liars. But thats who you deal with when you deal with criminal cases. What you need do is corroborate those people. So i think that Michael Cohen will only be an effective witness to the competent hes independently corroborated either by other testimony, meaning verbal testimony or by documents or both. Because hes got an awful history. Now that doesnt mean everything he says is a lie. But what it does mean is that you have to corroborate him. I think any, any prosecutor, certainly someone as careful and skilled and as objective as bob mueller would never use someone like Michael Cohen unless he could corroborate them and i think in general the same thing about the folks at the Southern District. So as a former federal prosecutor and just with your legal knowledge, how easy would it be to corroborate the checks that he brought to the table . How easy would it be to prove that the president committed a Campaign Finance violation while in office . The question especially when you can follow the money. The question is the motivation for the money. To pay off a porn star not to speak about their affair. Thats right. Whats the motivation for that. One of them is a potential crime and one isnt. So, if in fact, the motivation was to keep that information from folks who are impacted in an election that was the motivation for authorizing it thats a potential crime. If its otherwise to say no i want to keep this from my wife and family thats not a crime. So, you know, heres the problem as a prosecutor. Lets say you believe Michael Cohen hold on, joe. Lets say you believe Michael Cohen. Let me finish, joe. Heres the thing. Lets say youre Michael Cohen, what you have to do, you have to be able to take his testimony as a whole. I think it was one of the positive things that happened for the president during cohens testimony. Cohen himself said one of the motivations was to keep this from mrs. Trump and in fact i lied to mrs. Trump about the purpose for this. This means your star witness is providing two Different Reasons for the payment. There can be two Different Reasons for a payment but the problem for them is going to be, and any case against the president ultimately, the president will be saying i suspect there was one reason for the payment and that was to keep it from my wife. Prosecutors i suspect i used to say to my prosecutors all the time ill let you finish. Let me start. Give him the time. If you were a prosecutor, governor, you would say hold on a second let me get this straight. This affair happened in 2005, 2006, it happened a decade before donald trump was running for president. And yet this hush money payment happened a decade later after the affair right before a president ial campaign was coming to an end. You would consider that to be a bit of a smoke gun. Except, joe, thats when she threatened to go public. So you dont my guess is never having been involved in this myself personally, im just supposing thats when you decide i got to pay the money. Its when somebody actually threatens you not beforehand. Thats when the threat comes. Since the affair allegedly occurred, whether it was ten years ago or not it was during the time that he was married to the current first lady. I think hes got a motivation on that side to keep that quiet. I dont want to evaluate which one is true at the moment because i dont know. Ill tell you this as a prosecutor. If youre going prosecute someone as highprofile as the president of the United States, i used to say to my guys all the time. You want notice do something highprofile like that, it better be a head shot. What im telling you is Michael Cohens testimony did not provide a head shot on this because he himself said there were two reasons and that he acted on the Melania Trump reason by himself affirmatively lying to her about the purpose of the payments. So that makes it let me ask a different question. If you had hidden a payment a week before either one of your two gubernatorial runs in new jersey or if i had before any one of my four runs for congress, tell me what jail would they put you in . They would send me up to a jail up in atlanta. Theres been several specials on cnn. Theres that test case. I didnt have to go to jail because i didnt do anything wrong. But the special still ran. You go to connecticut, joe, i want to go to connecticut as a place to go to jail if i had the option. If you had done this, if i had done this, if Kevin Mccarthy had done this, if anybody in congress had done this they would have been convicted of a felony christmas. I dont necessarily doubt what youre saying except to this extent. John edwards wasnt. He did this. In fact he was acquitted. So these are tough cases. Im talking now as a prosecutor. Im trying to stay out of politics of it for a moment for the sake of this conversation. Because i think its an important conversation. John edwards proved how difficult it is to prove. All im saying as a prosecutor, if youre going to go after highprofile person you better not swing and miss because it makes a very loud noise. I would suggest i dont want us to get into Law School Class discussion. I would suggest the facts in the john edwards case were quite different than facts in Donald Trumps case. Lets go to law school and debate that. I would love that. That would be fun. That would being a great. So let me ask a general question and youve been asked before. Lets see what your opinion is in early march 2019. Does donald trump face greater legal jeopardy coming from the Mueller Investigation or from the Southern District of new york and all the investigations that are sprawling down there . I would one of the few people who come on your show who has remain completely consistent for the last nine months. Bob mueller is not nearly the threat to the president and those around him that the Southern District is for three reasons. Number one, theres no restriction on what the Southern District can look at. Bob mueller has restrictions on what he can look at. Number two, is Michael Cohen and number three is rick gates because the Southern District of new york has both rick gates and Michael Cohen as tour guides through the trump financial world, the trump personal world and the trump inaugural world. Those are all things that would concern me and makes the Southern District investigation much more perilous and in my mind made it much more interesting from a legal perspective than anything going on with bob mueller. By the way, i know you have to fine it as amusing as i do when people act like the Mueller Report coming out being dropped will be the end of everything. Thats the end of spring training. Like baseball season starts when the Southern District of new york and other prosecutors around america digest all the things that bob mueller has unearthed and then decide whether to prosecute or not. Right . By the way, they are not waiting for bob mueller. They have been working for a long time already on their own on a whole bunch of different avenues of pursuit. So, listen, this is part of the problem with what the president s people and the president himself confront here is there are a whole bunch of unknowables. And you know, joe, having been in a lot of campaigns yourself, you like to limit the number of unknowables as a candidate, as a strategist. But in this instance, theres a lot of unknowables and the thing i used to say when i was u. S. Attorney, the thing i loved about the job the most only i knew what i knew. Bob mueller has been very good. Lets hope the Southern District doesnt leak lake it normally does. Lets hope i want keeps itself disciplined on this because thats an important part of the prosecutorial toolkit and part of what were supposed to be doing in a constitutional form of government protect peoples reputations unless and until we have evidence to bring a case beyond a reasonable doubt. Bob mueller has shown integrity in this investigation by not leaking. Hes been outstanding in that regard. All right. Were going to have more with Chris Christie. Well let him finish. On the other side of the break. Now available at your independent bookstores and amazon, barnes and noble. Also ill be asking the governor his take on Jared Kushners security clearance and on john kellys grave concern about him getting a security clearance and also going to be asking him along with the rest of our panel actually i might let the rest of the panel ask him some questions. Im going to ask which child of donald trump is in the greatest legal jeopardy going forward. Well be right back. 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Means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. Does this sound dismal . It isnt. Its the most wonderful life on earth. Neighbors. Loved ones. Living with diseases like cancer, epilepsy, Mental Health conditions and hiv. Maybe youre one of them. But new medicare rules could deny access to the latest, most effective therapies. Therapies that keep them healthy. Are medicare cuts that save less than one percent worth the risk to millions of patients . Call and tell congress, stop cuts to part d drug coverage medicare patients depend on. And we governor Chris Christie. Governor, i would like to ask you, do you agree with john kelly, for example, who had grave concerns about simply handing Jared Kushner a security clearance, and did ivanka trump lie when she said there was no special treatment, no intervention at all or discussion about it by donald trump and no issues for security clearance . First off, on the basis of the security clearance and whether there should be concern or not, i have no idea. I have not been privied to the stuff john kelly was privied to in terms of what they had in the cia or fbi in jareds background. Obviously it was being held up by intelligence professionals and obviously john kelly did not think it should be granted. In the end, mika, this is the problem as you understand with family getting official positions in the white house. Families always have been informal advisers to president s, and always will be. Thats completely appropriate. But when you put them in official positions like this, it becomes very problematic. I think that this was heres the problem with it, we know the president has the right to give a security clearance to whomeverhe wants to give them to and needs to be held to account for that. Thats not the problem here. If the New York Times is true, and i have not reason to believe it isnt, then why not tell the truth about it . Why not say i did it, and why wouldnt ivanka do the same . Listen, my father thinks im trustworthy. My husband is trustworthy. Hes made the decision we should have access, he said needs us to consult with him on these issueissues of Foreign Policy and intelligence. For those of us who are out here at times defending the president and what goes on, moments like what happened thursday night when the New York Times broke make it very, very difficult, because you cant defend that. Now, some people try to defend it. I wont try to defend it. Its not defensible. You need to tell the American People the truth about what happened here and the problem for him now is this is going to open them up to another line of congressional inquiry. I know it is a legal issue. This is a political issue. And one theyre now going to be open to oversight by the House Oversight committee and or Judiciary Committee and or intelligence committee. And thats going to be very uncomfortable for the president to have his soninlaw and daughter drap daughter dragged up and questioned about the voracity of their statement and what was going on to not get those things granted. In other words hypotheticals and counterfactual things, he loved those. Yes. Lets imagine for a second, thought experience, take all of the trump issues and scandals as we had them now, flip the names. Instead of Jared Kushner getting a clearance, it was chelsea clinton. Instead of Paul Manafort it was john podesta. Jake sullivan instead of mike flynn, same facts. What would the conference be like right now in the gop, and would the articles of impeachment have already been drafted . No, because the republicans would be making the same political calculus that the democrats are right now, that overreaching into impeachment would actually benefit the other side. But would they be having conversations that was critical of those people . Of course they would. This is what i was talking about in my answer to joe before. This goes back to the mid90s and to the political tone that was set by both the clintons in the white house, the way they conducted themselves, and by, you know, Newt Gingrich and the new congress that came in and we have not gotten out of that mode in the 20 years since. And so, yes, you know theres gambling in this establishment, yes. But democrats are being partisan about their criticisms of the president. Even when their criticisms are valid. They amp them up in a partisan way. The same way the republicans did it with barack obama. The same way the democrats did it with george w. Bush and we can continue to go through this going back to the clinton years. And i think its a part of the symptom of whats going on in our political system right now that is making the American People exhausted, exhausted. So what would be the bar for impeachment of President Trump . Its the same bar as it would be for anyone else. Its a political judgment. Its what can you get 67 votes for in the senate . Listen, its high crimes and misdemeanors. Tell me what that means . It means whatever 67 members of the United States senate thinks it means. Thats the way it works. By the way, thats the way it should work. Every one of those men and women will have to be held account for a vote they make in that regard, the same way the folks voted on bill clintons removal had to be accountable for the vote they made. Thats the nature of the process. I dont believe impeachment is appropriate here given what i have seen. I dont think its appropriate, bandied about as jerry nadler very ham handily was doing on sunday on the talk shows. Oh, no, no, no, hes obstructed justice but i dont want to discuss impeachment. Hes broken the law this way but im not going to discuss impeachment. Thats a new york way of handling impeachment, theres nothing deft about it at all yet hes trying to act aif heas if hes deft. Its not a topic but he cant help himself. Thats the problem right now, these people cant help themselves and what they will wind up down politically if they play it that hard, they will do the very same thing donald trump did for bill clinton in the late 90s, help him become amazingly popular. By the way, one of the polls i saw this weekend has the president s Approval Rating at 46 , one of the highest i have seen in a long time after all of this stuff. Governor, do you think, speaking of those polls, do you think theres any democrat in the current field or possible field, including joe biden in this, whos capable of beating donald trump in 2020 . I think biden can give him a race if joe stays on the rails. Remember now hes had two president ial cases that didnt go all that well. One imploded because of the plagiarism scandal and unimploded because he said imadvised things about barack obama as an africanamerican candidate. But that having been said, i think joe biden from scranton, pennsylvania, can appeal to working class white folks in pennsylvania, ohio, michigan and wisconsin, and those are states the president knows he needs, along with florida, to maintain the presidency. So i think biden is one of those people, kasie, thats interesting in that regard. As for the rest of them, i would tell you that the only two i think we know enough about at the moment to make judgments are joe biden and Bernie Sanders. And joe biden has a potential to be able to win a national election. Bernie sanders has no hope of winning a national election. Where are the democrats these other democrats going to perform . You remember from covering our case in 16, kasie and a race it was you cant tell how people are going to perform until the lights go on. Scott walker was a frontrunner in iowa, supposedly. He spent tens and tens of millions of dollars and never was on a ballot, never got a vote. When the bright lights of president ial race go on, one of two things happen, you either shine or you melt. And if you shine, it doesnt mean youre going to win. It just means you survive to fight another day. If you melt, youre out. Lets see what these folks do besides biden and sanders, who have never been under this pressure and scrutiny before, see how they perform. Hey, governor, good to see you, buddy. In 2015 donald trump stayed away from cpac. In fact, he really wasnt welcomed there. What we saw this past weekend at cpac was basically the celebration, the idolatry of donald trump by a party thats fully embraced him. Where does that leave republicans like you and me and others who while, yeah, we like some of the policies, his Supreme Court appointments, but character of the office, the nature of the individual who holds that office still plays as much a role in a factor in defining that office, is that still valuable today . Or was it really just a Reality Tv Program that we get to tune in to and watch performance . Well, again, i think youve seen this over time too, this has changed over the course of time, changed significantly in terms of what people are expecting. I think that this has been the Trump Presidency has been a reaction to the obama presidency. Not only in terms of substance but in terms of style. The no drama obama type of thing, the leading from behind argument, all of the rest of it, trump is a reaction and caffeinated reaction for that in terms of style points. I think what you saw at cpac is exactly what you expected. When a party or movement has a president , everyone sings out of the same hymnal. Its just the way it goes. Even for the opposition to the president , those in the party who opposed him, they dont have enough of a platform to be able to do it against the president of the United States. The president of the United States was plagued by the normal rules. President trump is playing by his own set of rules and thats where a twohour speech at cpac, no one else would have done that. Donald trump does it, enjoyed it and seemingly the people there enjoyed it as well. Its a whole difrpts world. Hes changed that world. By the way yes, he has. Shows like this and other Media Outlets all through 2015, to be honest, helped to create him because the amount of time he got on the air, here and every place else, gave him even more oxygen and it was very frustrated, i can tell you, kasie knows this because i complained to her, we never got the time. We never got the time that donald trump did. Come on, Chris Christie, we were attacked for giving you too much time. We told everybody during the president ial campaign, anybody that wanted to call