Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20190124

Work deserve their pay. We pray in your sovereign name, amen. Whoa. That was barry black, chaplain of the United States senate and a retired Navy Rear Admiral offering a prayer for the nation mired in a shutdown that is now entering its 34th day. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is thursday, january 24th. Joe is still under the weather. Along with willie and me, we have mike barnicle, former press secretary to speaker of the house john boehner, michael steele. He served in senior roles in jeb bushs campaign, also washington bahry chief susan page and shake sherman is joining the nbc and msnbc family as a political contributor. Welcome aboard. We will haze you today. To frame why the Senate Chaplain is literally praying to end the shut double pl shutdown, air Traffic Controllers are working 60 hours a week without pay. Fbi agents say theyre losing ground in terror investigations, Prison Guards and President Trump just backed down, he folded to nancy pelosi in the proxy fight over the state of the union. The president blinked first and the House Speaker just doubled down in a latenight tweet. But first, new accusations that the commander in chief is continuing threats. Cohen released a statement saying he put his family and safety first. The president tweeted twice about cohens family, once claiming that cohen cooperated with prosecutors to protect his wife and her father. And another time watch fatherinlaw. He should give information maybe on his fatherinlaw because thats the one that people want to look at because where does that money thats the money in the family. I guess he didnt want to talk about his fatherinlaw. Hes trying to get his sentence reduced. Its pretty sad. Its weak and very sad to watch a thing like that. I couldnt care less. What is his fatherinlaws name . I dont know but youll find out and look into it. Nobody knows whats going on. Its about his fatherinlaw. We talked about ukrainian, his fatherinlaw is ukrainian. Thats not a crime. Of course it isnt. The reason thats important is he may have ties to something called organized crime. Its really troubling and i just have to say this, its been in the back of my mind ever since i saw that interview with jeanine pirro, willie. Jeanine pirro is acting like the mob bosss affiliate. And shes asking for a name. Meanwhile, Elijah Cummings called cohens concerns legitimate and added our nations laws discourage efforts to discourage, intimidate or otherwise pressure a witness not to provide testimony to congress. The president should take no action to obstruct congresss independent oversight and vebtiveb investigative efforts, including by seeking to discourage any witness from testifying. Heres more from congress and Committee Member Jackie Speier. This is something that should upset every single american. This is the United States of america. This is not russia. This is called witness tampering. This is a crime, and the congress of the United States has to exert its authority against a president now whos acting more like putin every day. I feel like im in the middle of a godfather movie. If all of this is indeed true, weve got yet another article that could be posed in an impeachment trial. Reporter the congressman said hes unsure if hell subpoena mr. Cohen to appear before the committee but said, quote, we will hear from mr. Cohen period. You have new information on Michael Cohens decision to postpone his testimony. He hears these tweets, hears Rudy Giuliani go on fox news, and is this actual about physical safety for Michael Cohen . Heres the reality. You have the most powerful man in the world who has been going after Michael Cohen publicly for eight months now now going after private citizens who are his close family members. I dont think that any of us would feel comfortable with the most powerful man in the world going after our family, our spouses, our inlaws and then saying im going to voluntarily put myself and my family in the most public setting possible with millions and millions and millions of people watching me across the country, across the world and im not going to do that to my family, independent not going to put them in further harm if the president is going to continue to publicly threaten me and my family. I know hes been spending hours and hours and hours preparing for this testimony. This is something hes been looking forward to doing. He wanted to have this have you no decency moment before congress. Hes been spending a lot of his time trying to tell the truth and ready to tell the truth to the American People. But hes not going to do this at the expense of whatever the president is going to threaten to do to him. Cohen is one person who has been threatened because the president has felt cornered and scared about what cohen may reveal. Whos to say he wont do this to another witness who is called to testify in front of congress . So cohen is almost putting them in a situation where congress has to were either going to do something to make sure that the president doesnt continue to do this to witnesses and doesnt continue to intimidate people who are going to tell the truth or theyre just not going to show up. Its not clear what can be done to stop the president or what can be done to stop Rudy Giuliani. Its my reporting that he will go, hes not going to defy a subpoena but hes not required to answer questions, if he goes. Its my understanding that unless there are severe actions taken to try and stop the president beyond a statement and those statements from lawmakers were fairly strong, but i think in order for him to feel comfortable, they would have to do something more if hes going to go and actually tell the truth the way he intended to. Like what . As we heard the lawmaker say, this could be a violation of some of the articles. Witness intimidation and witness tampering is a crime. I was aware, i think most people were aware of the tweet watch fatherinlaw, but its one of a bundle of tweets that you get sick of looking at that the president issues multiple times a day. I had not seen the giuliani clip that we just saw. A former United States attorney, a lawyer. Thats witness tampering what we just heard and what we saw from Rudy Giuliani. In plain sight, too. Yes. And the stunning silence of members of congress on both sides of the aisle, republican and democrat about someone so associated closely with the president of the United States, witness tampering like that, they say nothing . I dont blame Michael Cohen for fearing for what might happen to his family. And mike barnicle, i completely agree with you because theres so much happening in plain sight. I believe congresswoman Jackie Speier has brought this up. Giuliani goes on the air so much, trump does it, too, throwing out bombs about people, muddling the truth a. Susan page, what are the possibilities now that we have these questions and we see what we see, can Michael Cohen testify before congress after hes gone to jail . What are the possibilities here especially in terms of oversight and reaching out to the president and demanding answers . Michael cohen will be testifying before congress. We may not know exactly when but that is going to happen. Because one of the things thats important about this exchange is that everything is now setting a precedent for the next two years. Thats why the state of the Union Standoff was important between the president and the speaker and thats why this is important. This is the first case off of a big witness testifying before a congress, a Congressional Committee now controlled by democrats who are going to call witnesses and ask questions that have not been asked for the last two years. We want to thank emily jane foxx for coming in, keeping us posed on Michael Cohen news. Now in a latenight twitter exchange, President Trump backed down to speaker of the house nancy pelosi on the state of the union this tuesday, acknowledging that she controls the real estate on capitol hill. In tweets sent after 11 p. M. In washington, the president wrote, as the shutdown was going on, nancy pelosi asked me to give the state of the Union Address. I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the shutdown, suggesting a later day. This is her prerogative. I will do the address when the shutdown is over. Im not looking for an alternative ven up fue for the address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the house chamber. I look forward to giving a great state of the Union Address in the near future. And the speaker responded by saying i hope by saying near future you mean you will support the housepassed pack and to end the shutdown that the senate will vote on tomorrow. Please accept this proposal sos we can reopen government, repay our federal workers and then negotiate our differences. It seems for the first time in his life here, got the answer no and had to live with it. Speaker pelosi has held the line and it seems shes the one person President Trump actually respects in washington. The way he addresses her and respond s it her demands and requests is unlike any others. We have a republican bill, a democrat bill, neither second to get the 60 votes it needs. Does that get people a little bit closer to something to end the shutdown here . Yes and no. Theres two distinct dynamics happening at the same time. Number one, there is this thaw in which nancy pelosi is putting border wall money on table and saying shes looking to get some sort of compromise in the coming weeks. She is now saying she will give upwards of 5 billion, her allies and aides are telling us this but no wall money. She doesnt want any money for the wall but shes willing to talk about Border Security. Then you have this incredible standoff. Republicans were daring nancy pelosi to disinvite formally from giving the state of the union. Nancy pelosi did it without blinking an eye and the president backed down. It does reestablish pelosi as the it establishes her primacy on capitol hill, which is incredibly important in this tit for tat with the president. In the next couple of days, nancy pelosi and Mitch Mcconnell need to get engidgaged with eac other. Theyre the only two people look with Chuck Schumer that can get a deal. The contours of the deal will be a big border package, several billion dollar, maybe modest changes to immigration policy and maybe a promise theyll look at further ways to secure the border. The president , according to pelosi, who controls the house, shes not getting hes not getting any money for the wall, shes not giving it and those dynamics are not going to change. So another new poll shows that the shutdown is crashing President Trumps Approval Rating. The Associated Press, an orc poll, puts the president s job approval at just 34 , down eight points from december. Meanwhile, disapproval of his performance has climbed up to 65 , up nine points from just before the shutdown began. His rating is near its lowest in two years, dropping significantly among independents. This after a cbs news poll found his Approval Rating has fallen to 36 . Asked in a separate question if a border wall is worth the Government Shutdown, 71 said no. Still, the Trump Administration is reportedly asking Agency Leaders for a list of programs that would be affected if the shutdown continues for the next several weeks. A senior official with the office of management and budget tells nbc news, quote, prudent management means planning and preparing for events without known end dates. Unf unfunded agencies are being asked to share with omb an ongoing list of programs that could be impacted within the coming weeks. White house chief of staff Mick Mulvaney has pressed Agency Leaders for a list of highimpact programs that would be jeopardized if the shutdown continues into march and april . People familiar with the directive told the post mulvaney wants the list no later than friday and its further evidence the white house is preparing for a lengthy funding lapse at that could have snowballing consequences for the economy and government services. Meanwhile chief Kevin Hassett said there could be zero growth if the shutdown continues. Could we get zero growth . Yes, we could. If it extended for the whole quarter and given the fact in a the First Quarter tends to be low because of residuals, you could end up with a number very close to zero. In terms of the workers who are coming to work and not getting paid, what would you say to them . Listen, its not fair to you and we all get that but this is so much bigger than any one person. It is a little bit of pain but its going to be for the future of our country. Lara trump saying its a little bit of pain. She said she was misunderstood. Its not a little bit of pain, though. A lot of pain. A lot of human suffering across the country. Millions of American People. Michael steele, look at these poll numbers and tell me how republicans wouldnt at this point be urging Mitch Mcconnell to figure something out because this cannot go on until march and april and had white houthis is preparing for it to go on. Are republicans going to stay with this . I think what youre seeing with these votes in the senate is were not watching the ice break but were hearing it creek. This is the beginning of the end of the shutdown. Were going to see an effort after we see that the president s plan cant pass and the democrats plan cant pass, youre going to see probably Mitch Mcconnell and nancy pelosi working to the to see the compromised language to get the government open again, not today, not tomorrow, but in a week or two. The wall is not a real policy. There are places on the border where a physical barrier makes sense. There are places where it doesnt. You can improve and increase security without building a gamestyle wall across the southern border of the United States and thats what were going to do. Willie, can democrats give him some symbolic face saving amount of money for a stupid wall . Is there any movement here thats possible with Mitch Mcconnell . Sure. This is going to end with a typical washington fudge where democrats will agree to additional money for Border Security and they will say theres no wall, were not giving money for a wall, theyre not going to build a wall. The president will say look at all this money i got to build a wall and improve Border Security and everybody lives to see another day. Final former security secretaries are calling on the president and congress to end the shutdown. Nbc news has obtained a copy of the letter. It states one of the unfortunate consequences of the shutdown has been the need for some Homeland Security employees to seek unemployment or to find a new job. The letter reads in part, we write to you today with a simple message, fund the critical message of dhs. Homeland security is National Security. Dhs has a Vital Mission to security the nation from the many threats we face. And groups representing aviation officials are sounding the alarm about the growing risk to public safety. Yesterday the Union Representing air Traffic Controllers, pilots and flight attendants released this joint statement, quote, in our risk averse industry we cannot even calculate the level of risk currently at play nor predict the point at which the entire system will break. It is unprecedented. Go back to john kelly for a second. He has signed on to a letter saying end the shutdown. Well, he knows how stupid the shutdown is and how really relatively easy it would be to end the shutdown if both sides were not so dug in and the politics of this were not so polarized. Michael steele, who worked for john boehner, i mean, john boehner had a very Good Relationship with former chief of staff bill daly in the obama white house, they spoke regularly, they almost got a big budget deal done. Didnt happen. But they were speaking to each other. Now it seems both sides are so frozen in their lack of movement that we have the acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, talking about what to do to prepare for an extended shutdown into march or april. Susan, i dont know about you, but watching this play out is just a stunning, stunning portrait of complete ignorance on both sides of what the reality of this shutdown is doing not just to the 800,000 people not getting a check for the second time, but to the country itself. You know, its cold comfort to people across the country, especially the federal workers by this that they see this tit for tat debate going on in washington, but i think that is the force that is going to make this get resolved. You know, you think about who broke yesterday with the president . Corey gardner told the denver post, he would vote for the democratic bill coming up in the senate today. Corey gardner up for reelection in colorado next year. Just finished a term as chairman of the Senate Campaign committee arm for the gop. Thats a message that senators and congressmen on the republican side as well as the democratic side are hearing from people, from their constituents, that this needs to stop and not in march or april. That would be extraordinary for this to extend into then. Yeah. All right. So, jake, looking forward to whether or not getting Mitch Mcconnell to move on this and Mitch Mcconnell perhaps to appeal to the president that this isnt working, that the only people who might be appealed to here is that hard core base that most of america doesnt want this wall but youve got human suffering here and danger to the country. Isnt this upon Mitch Mcconnell at this point to make the president understand his fantasy has to end . It is because hes going to have a member management problem. Mitch mcconnell understands that. Right now the dam has not broken but it is showing signing of crack, of creeking i guess is the word im looking for. Pu i dont know when that moment will come, but when it does come, i do believe having covered mcconnell for so long, i do believe when he goes to the president with that information, the president will have to listen to him. Once mcconnell decides to move, he will be able to override a veto at some point in the coming days or weeks. Its probably within the next two or three weeks, when he decides to move, everyone will follow him. When he decides to move, it will be a sign for the president that its time to end this thing and end it with what mike is a fudge. The president s agenda is completely stalled at the moment. Everything is folked on this political fight. Jake sherman, thank you very much. And still ahead on morning joe, the Fbi Agents Association says the shutdown is hurting National Security. Were going to talk to the groups president , who represents 14,000 active and former agents. Also ahead, some major developments on the international stage. The Trump Administration is putting itself in the middle of venezuelas triefs. Richard haas weighs in on the risk and the benefits of regime change. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Oe. Well be right back. So, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and ontime. ringing the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. The future only happens audible members know listening has the power to change us, make us better people. With audible you get more. Two Audible Originals exclusive titles you cant find anywhere else. Plus a credit good for any audiobook and exclusive fitness and wellness programs. All for just 14. 95 a month, and always ad free. The most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories, the best place to listen. Download audible and start your free trial today. The company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100 online. Now weve created a brand new way for you to sell your car. Whether its a few years old or dinosaur old, we want to buy your car. So go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our technowizardry calculates your cars value and gives you a real offer in seconds. When youre ready, well come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. Thats it. So ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way. At carvana. Sleep number 360 smart bed. It senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. Save up to 500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. Plus, 36month financing. Ends saturday. Lookin better than a body has a right to and shakin me up so applebees all you can eat is back. Now with shrimp. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. With who we are as people and making everybody feel welcome. Ordering custom ink tshirts has been a really smart decision for our business. I love the custom ink design lab because its really easy to use. They have Customer Service that you can reach anytime. Tshirts help us immediately get a sense of who we are as a group. From the moment clients walk in, theyre able to feel like part of the family. [spokesman] custom ink has hundreds of products for your business and free shipping. Upload your logo or start your design today for your business and free shipping. And the army taught me a lot about commitment. Which i apply to my life and my work. At comcast were commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. And if we are ever late, well give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. My name is antonio and im a technician at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. Joining us now, washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay and author of world in disarray, richard haas. A lot of developments in north korea, richard, and also venezuela over the past 24 hours. Lets start there. That could have some massive implications. I understand richard has technical problems in his ear piece. Katty, explain the developments with venezuela and why its important with such mass i ive implications. This has been going on for months. Something like 3 million venezuelans have fled the country and yesterday we saw mass demonstrations organized by the opposition and juan guaido essentially declared himself the president. And then the stung thing happened, the United States donald trump said, okay, we recognize you. Theres been an evident effort to boost this figure and help the country. The administration is right to take this seriously. Venezuela has the Worlds Largest oil reserves, more than saudi arabia. Its hemorrhaging people. The right say this government has no legitimacy. Essentially this government has done an internal coup to get rid of the national assembly, the parliament. The question is how you manage this in a way that doesnt play into the hands of the government. I would say we probably want to get our people out if we feel the government wouldnt protect them. We dont want to be talking about military intervention. We may want to look at cutting off the flow of money to venezuela. We still import venezuelan oil. We may want to cut off the money or funnel it to the opposition. We want to figure out a way to get the military to rise up against them. We may want to Start Talking about the incentives, what would flow to venezuela in a postmaduro world. You just mentioned the phrase get our people out. Jim mattis is out at the defense department, hes no longer secretary of defense. What are the dangers, and i dont say this lightly, what are the dangers of this particular president invading the country in order to get our pretenses out . No one should underestimate how messy it would be. You have probably thousands of armed cubans who are all over the place. You have more than 100,000 militiamen, people who have been armed by the government, well armed. So this would be extraordinarily messy. Theres a history of American Intervention in the hemisphere. We dont want to go there. If anyone thinks this would be quick and easy, weve had a lot of experience with quick andes y easy military interventions. We want to avoid that. Maduro wants to make this the gringos coming in. Thats a last, last, last resort. This would not be a coup in the lasik sense. Y classic sense. We want to encourage the military to act against this illegitimate guy but we dont want forces on the ground if at all, all possible. And they said they are expelling american diplomats from the country. Secretary pompeo is saying you dont have the right to do that. A host country has the responsibility to protect diplomats. The marines at the embassy, thats not their job. If theyre not willing or able to do that, we have to think if we want to use our diplomats or put them in a situation to put them into harms way. That could trigger a crisis and possibly the grounds for intervention. Then weve got to think do we really want things to trend that way. I would say probably not. We could pull them out ourselves and say were taking them out, not because you ordered them out because youre not a legitimate state, youre not willing to protect people as you should. Wow. Still ahead, tens of thousands of fbi agents are bracing to miss their second paycheck tomorrow. Were going to talk to the president of the Fbi Agents Association about how the shudosh shutdown is affecting the bureau and compromising investigations. Morning joe will be right back. I hear it in the background and shes watching too, saying [indistinct conversation] [friend] ive never seen that before. I have. Just as important as what you get out of it . I have. Our broccoli cheddar is made with aged melted cheddar, simmered broccoli, and no artificial flavors. Enjoy 100 clean soup today. Panera. Food as it should be. And the army taught me a lot about commitment. Which i apply to my life and my work. At comcast were commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. And if we are ever late, well give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. My name is antonio and im a technician at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. A new report from the union that represents fbi agents provides firsthand accounts of how the Government Shutdown is not only affecting agents lives at work and at home but also the agencys basic operations. Among the impacts, undermining criminal and terror investigations, delaying child trafficking investigations and reducing informant cooperation. Joining us, thomas oconnor. You said for you the fight for this funding is not political, its a matter of completing our mission to protect this country from criminal and National Security threats. Specifically, i outlined them kind of broadly, how are fbi agents being prevented from doing their jobs or at least doing them well because of the shutdown. Thank you for having me speak this morning. The budget that the fbi is operating under stopped being funded on december 21st. The fbi has thousands of investigations in criminal, counterterrorism, counterintelligence across the country and around the globe. As we do the investigation, were using found forward these investigations and the pot of money is not being replenished. So headquarters is having to do a lot of really hard and difficult work to spread those funds out to make the operations that we are doing as less impacted as they possibly can be. But as we go forward on this, were seeing that theres no way to not impact our progress in our investigations. Tom, obviously without giving details about any investigations, can you cite something specific where youre being hampered from doing your job . There were some reports that an investigation into the ms13 gang, for example, was being slowed by a lack of resources. Well, as we go forward in this, generally all of our investigative efforts are going to be slowed. As the money comes in to or goes out to investigations and that is for a myriad of investigative tools that we have, our tool box is not being replenished. So we dont have the ability to do a lot of the things that were able to do on a normal operating basis. Every day this goes on were still spending money to do these investigations, but that money is not coming back into the fbi. We need to open the government, we need to fully fund the fbi so we can have the tools going forward. As we go on in this shutdown, the investigations and the challenges that are going to be presented to fbi agents on a daily basis are going to get more and more difficult. Fbi agents will continue to do their job. We were doing the job before the shutdown, were doing it during the shutdown, well do it after the shutdown. Over the past several days there have been some highprofile arrests. Thats because the fbi agents are the type of people that think outside the box and theyll continue to do that. Our professional support employees are doing the same thing. They need to be paid for the work they do and we need to have the tools in our tool box to do our jobs to the best of our abilities. Tom, it seems a large portion of the country is unaware that the shutdown presents to every day workers, including fbi agents out in the street. So let me ask you, interpreters, people listening in to calls from overseas, translators, are they still on the job as fully as they were prior to the shutdown . So theres an amount of a small number of fbi agents and a small number of support employees, about 5,000 overall that are furloughed and not able to come to work. And what these people do are a myriad of different jobs. The problem comes with the funding of the technology, the funding of the personnel is being spread thin because every day that amount of money is being used and the headquarters is again having to think outside that box as to how are we going to use the money we have and get the job done in the best manner. So it is causing an effect. So a call from yemen this morning to brooklyn this morning, it might be missed whereas it might not be missed six weeks ago. I dont have any facts with regard to call takers, that kind of thing. Its common sense. We have an amount of money in our budget, were using it and its not being replenished. Youre going to have to take funds from all around the fbi to get the job done. As we go forward into the fourth week, thats going to get more and more difficult. It is getting more and more difficult. Okay, im working out of the chicago bureau, the gang unit, and i need buy money today to keep a source in the gangs on the payroll to keep him talking. Can i get the buy money today . Were having a difficult time getting all of that done. The voices from the field is many of the members of the Fbi Agents Association that wrote in to us and built the voices from the field because thats what it is, its voices from the field, fbi agents on the street that are telling us where theyre having these problems and one of the problems that theyre having is the daytoday source payments, that type of stuff. Its not as easy to get that money to be done because theres only a certain amount of money for that, for our daily activities. Is it hurting us in that arena . Yes, it is. Susan page has a question. Do fbi agents see any signs that criminals are adjusting their behaviors because of those funding problems at the fbi . And organized crime or child traffickers or drug gangs, are they taking advantage of the situation . I have no information on that, but i would hope that they should know and if theres any of them watching today, fbi agents are going to continue to do the job that we were doing before the shutdown because were having the ability to think outside that box, get the job done to the best of our abilities. And were going to continue to do that. Is it easy . Is it more challenging . Day by day it is more challenging and there are tools in our tool box that we are no longer able to use. Were still going to go get the bad guys and stop the terrorist attacks. Were going to make every effort to do that. Its clear without funding to the fbi, it is more difficult to do all of our tasks across the board. Tom, an awful lot of members of congress and the president of the United States sometimes watch this show. As we go here, what would be your direct message speaking to them right now . Open the government, fund the fbi fully so we have all the tools that we need to do our jobs to the best of our ability and pay fbi employees, agents and professional support employees for the job theyre doing. Fbi employees, fbi agents and professional staff are working every single day and not receiving a paycheck. We are coming tomorrow will be the second paycheck that we are missing and were made in twoweek inincrements, which mes its one month. I had someone say to me the other day youll get paid. Ive been told thats true. Now i want to tell the Lease Management that youll get paid and see how long that lasts. Everyone needs to get paid so they can pay their bills, pay their childrens and their familys medical bills. Our fbi people are the same as everyone else. Everyone needs a paycheck to have financial security. We believe Financial Insecurity is a matter of National Security. We need to have funds for our operation, we need all the tools to do our jobs and we need to be paid for that so we can be financially secure, which is very important for National Security. Well said. Tom oconnor, president of the fbis agents association, thank you for being here this morning. Coming up, has the president finally had enough with Rudy Giuliani . Plus much more on todays senate votes to end the shutdown. Republican cory gardner telling the denver post, he will break with the republicans to end the shutdown. Well be right back. D the shutdown well be right back. I cant tell you who i am or what i witnessed, but i can tell you Liberty Mutual customized my Car Insurance so i only pay for what i need. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. With my bladder leakage, the products ive tried just didnt fit right. They were too loose. Its getting in the way of our camping trips. But with a range of sizes, depend fitflex is made for me. With a range of sizes for all body types, depend fitflex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. Okay heryeah he deal. Youre unbelievable. Oh, that was a good time. Michael steele, i wanted to get your thoughts. Take me into the mind of a republican thats still sticking with trump on the wall or Mitch Mcconnell. You have the president on tv in plain sight saying he owns this shutdown, hes proud to own it. And you also have the president in plain sight possibly engaging in witness tampering. Were now the Oversight Committee, going in and asking questions about this potential witness tampering and threatening of Michael Cohen. This all happened on tv in plain sight. This is not a buzzfeed story that mueller then undermines. Okay, this happened, its real. This appears in many ways one would say this ends badly. When are the republicans going to have these two stories come together and realize they might not want to actually stand with this president and think about their party first . Am i sounding incredibly partisan here or is there a concern one might had in they were a republican sticking with trump . Well, look, i think the republicans on the Oversight Committee believe that Michael Cohen is a liar, that he has credibility problems, but that e same time he is going to appear i want to stop you there. Michael cohen is a liar, he has credibility problems. Many would say that for many reasons because he has lied, he has said it. Many also know the president has lied and he has credibility problems. When do remembers see this ends badly or do they see a way out of this and that trump will be some great president they can hank the hang their hatton . I think people are looking at the president s strong approval for the base of the republican party. As long as the president retains the loyalty of that base, he is going to continue to have loyalty from republicans on capitol hill. But thats all contingent on a strong economy, tax reform continuing to work, deregulation continuing to work and avoiding the sort of embarrassing blockbuster revelations that we think could be coming from the mueller report. Wow. Those contingencies are quite something you have there, given zero growth potentially. Yes. Susan page. Final thoughts for you. I would flag the fox poll that showed the president s Approval Rating higher than the ap poll but coming down. Since the start of the shutdown, hes lost approval by 10 among republican women and conservative men and that starts to eat at the president s base. Susan page, michael steele, thank you both for being on this morning. Still ahead on morning joe i think that Chuck Schumer sadly is dominated by the radical left and hes dominated by nancy pelosi. Very strongly dominated. He cant move. Hes a puppet. Hes a puppet for nancy pelosi, if you can believe that. Wait, who is actually . The president says that even as he backs down from his own battle with nancy pelosi. Well have the latest developments on the state of the union. Plus the Washington Posts robert costa joins us with no reporting on how the president s soninlaw, Jared Kushner, has thrown himself in the middle of shotdo shutdown talks. Oh, boy. Morning joe is back in a moment. Ning joe is back in a moment this builder in a hardhat. The welders and electricians who do all of that. The diner staffed up cause they all needed lunch. Teachers. Doctors. Jobs grew a bunch. What started with one job spread all around. Because each job in energy creates many more in this town. Energy lives here. Incomparable design state of the Art Technology makes it brilliant. The visionary lexus nx. Lease the 2019 nx 300 for 339 mo. For 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. This round is on me. Hey, can you spot me . Come on in find your place, today, with silver sneakers. Included with Many Medicare plans. Call the number on the screen now or visit getsilversneakers. Com when someone told me i hadorget what colon cancer. We had the follow up cat scan, which showed that it had gone to her liver. It was pretty intense, and we had to move pretty quickly. We needed a second opinion. Thats when our journey began with Cancer Treatment centers of america. One of our questions was, how are we going to address my liver . So my doctor said i think we can do both surgeries together. I loved that. To find out more about our unique treatment options, go to cancercenter. Com. Our teams of physicians and clinicians are experienced and compassionate. My health is good. Cancer Treatment Centers of america, you have people that really care. Theyre my family now. These people are saints. Ha, theyre saints. Please call or visit cancercenter. Com today. The evolution of cancer care is here. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. Comprehensive Cancer Care Network Appointments Available now. clapping every day, visionaries are creating the future. so, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, affordably and ontime. ringing the future only happens with people who really know how to deliver it. We were planning on doing a really very important speech in front of the house and the senate, the Supreme Court and everybody else thats there. Its called the state of the union. Its in the constitution. Were supposed to be doing it and now nancy pelosi, or nancy as i call her, she doesnt want to hear the truth. Welcome back to morning joe, it is thursday, january 44 24th. Joe is still on the mend. We have richard haas, washington anchor for bbc news katty kay and jonathan lemeyeire and joyc vance, waauthor of power up a robert costa. Good to have you all this hour. Willie, a lot going on obviously with the president over the speaker of the house and the state of the union and nancy pelosi really shutting him down. But there are legal questions looming over this presidency pertaining to Michael Cohen. Its fascinating. This is big. It is, mika, or as i like to call you, mika. Michael cohen citing ongoing threats from the president and from Rudy Giuliani. He released a statement saying he had to put his family and their safety first. The president has tweeted twice about cohens family, one claiming that cohen cooperated with prosecutors to protect his wife and her father and another time he tweeted watch fatherinlaw. Heres more. Ill give you information on the president. Well, there is no information. But he should give information maybe on his fatherinlaw. Because thats the one that people want to look at. Because thats the money in the family. I guess he didnt want to talk about his fatherinlaw. Hes trying to get his sentence reduced. Its pretty sad. Its weak and its very sad to watch a thing like that. I couldnt care less. What is his fatherinlaws name . In. I dont know but youll find out and youll look into it. Nobody knows whats going on over there. His fatherinlaw is ukrainian. Thats not a crime. Of course its not. The reason its important is he may have ties to something called organized crime. The chairman of the Oversight Committee Elijah Cummings called cohens concerns legitimate and quickly denounced what he called the president s and giulianis, quote, textbook mob tactics. The president should take no statement or take any action to obstruct congresss independent oversight and investigative efforts, including by seeking to discourage any witness from testifying in response to a duly authorized request from congress. Joyce vance, as a former prosecutor, point blanc, is that witness tampering what we watched from giuliani and the president . Its close. Its hard to say in a vacuum whether something is witness tampering or not . Witness tampering is the use of intimidation, in this case to either delay or keep a witness from testifying. The legal decision has to be made by the prosecutors involved in the case, but the problem here is by anyones definition, this conduct is so close that were having this conversation about whether the president of the United States engaged in witness tampering. And to even be having that conversation tells you that somethings wrong. So because of what we just heard from Rudy Giuliani and weve heard from the president of the United States, is Michael Cohen right and within his rights to postpone his testimony . So thats between cohen and congress and typically prosecutors and i think congress as well takes the position that you should show up and testify, that you can count on Law Enforcement in these situations to protect you, but the statute, the legal prohibition against intimidation doesnt really speak about how its viewed by the target of the action. It talks about the person who is trying to keep the witness from testifying. The focus, all eyes, should be on that activity, in this case the president of the United States. Would you expect a subpoena from elijah to the president . I think so. As you were watching that clip of Rudy Giuliani, former United States attorney, you are a former United States attorney, what were you thinking. Prosecutors hate people who tamper with their witnesses. The whole point of being a prosecutor is to get to the truth, right . And you cant do that if, in this case, a former United States attorney and his client, the president of the United States, are trying to make somebody think twice about testifying truthfully. Its witness tampering. Its right on the edge, isnt it . John, how is the white house reacting to this . Michael cohens explanation for not showing up to testify is that hes being intimidated, that hes worried about the safety of his family because of what the president and Rudy Giuliani have been saying on tv, throwing out wild innuendo about the ukrainian mob and other things. Whats the white house reaction to this . Their stance all along has been a recognition that Michael Cohen perhaps creates a greater threat to this president than perhaps any other front. Thats why theyve taken such an aggressive tact on him throughout this entire last year almost, where giuliani has taken nearly every tv opportunity to go after him, to bash him, to suggest his fatherinlaw might be working with some kind of ukrainian mob. I think there is a momentary sense of relief that cohen will not testify before congress on that date but theres an expectation he will at some point. I think these sort of attacks, the smear campaign, is going to continue. We saw the mentioned the former mayor of new york city there and that wideeyed appearance, theres a real frustration in the west wing about giuliani of late. There are people in the president s world who are urging him to sideline him. There are people who say he should be benched because theyre so frustrated with his media appearances. And that he stepped on the buzz feed story, which they thought was a good news story for them in this probe but special counsel came out and suggested that buzzfeed was wrong about the president asking Michael Cohen to lie before congress and instead Rudy Giuliani muddies the water and theres a sense that we have lost that news cycle again. So theyre just frustrated with giuliani now . Okay. In a latenight twitter exchange, President Trump backed down to speaker of the house nancy pelosi on the state of the Union Address, this tuesday, acknowledging that she controls the real estate on capitol hill. In tweets sent after 11 p. M. In washington the president wrote, as the shutdown was going on, nancy pelosi asked me to give the state of the Union Address. I agreed. She then changed her mind because of the shutdown suggesting a later date. This is her prerogative. I will do the address when the shutdown is over. Im not looking for an alternative venue for the address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the house chamber. I look forward to giving a great state of the Union Address in the near future. Notice that he has no name for her. Hes very respectful with her. Shortly before midnight the speaker responded, mr. President , i hope by saying near future you mean you will support the housepassed package to end the shutdown that the senate will vote on tomorrow. Please accept this proposal so we can reopen government, repay our federal workers and then negotiate our differences. That comes as another new poll shows the shutdown is dragging down President Trumps Approval Rating. The Associated Press puts the president s job approval at just 34 , down eight points since december and disapproval has climbed to 65 , up nine points since just before the shutdown began. H his rating is the lowest in two years. A new poll found his Approval Rating has fallen to 36 . Asked if a border wall is worth a Government Shutdown, 71 said no. I know fox news has their own numbers out that a little higher. Maybe its somewhere in between. These numbers are going down. The white house is well aware of the poll numbers. The other numbers that matter today, thats the vote count out of the u. S. Senate. What happens there with these two pieces of legislation that are coming up to end the shutdown, one a republican bill, another a democratic bill. If those almost reach the threshold to go to the floor for a final floor vote, the pressure will only increase on the president to end the shutdown. Jackie, what are you hearing about this . They they seeing has to numbers . You would think that these numbers dont exist. I think the concession you saw President Trump make to nancy pelosi is the only concession youll see in the come days. Yesterday the president stressed two things. One, hes not looking to go any further with his proposal in terms of offering amnesty, which these conservatives are so fearful of. And then secondly, as bob referred to, the president is really concerned about making sure that the votes dont slip. And he wanted these people, Stephen Moore of the Heritage Foundation to help him shore up various concerns on the hill. He directly called out senator tom cotton, senator ted cruz as two conservatives who thought that trumps proposal that he delivered on saturday that made concessions to daca as not being stern enough. As you just pointed out, the poll numbers are getting worse for him. Five former Homeland Security secretaries are weighing in on the shutdown, when youing president tru including former chief of staff john kelly who just left a few weeks ago. The letter states one of the unfortunate consequences of the shutdown has been the need for Homeland Security employees to seek unemployment or find a new job. The letter reads in part fund the mission of dhs. Homeland security is National Security. Dhs has a Vital Mission to secure the countnation from the threats we face. They say the Critical Missions of our bureaucracies are being slowed or stopped and when youre talking about the airport and safety, theyre worried at this point. They ought to be. And there are stories that the acting chief imagine if the theres a problem with the faa or air traffic safety. These people are playing russian roulette. His base is going to unravel. If they are smart, they will end the shutdown before something terrible happens. The white house watches television a lot. We see the stories. Theyre hearing from the faa, hearing from their own chief of staf staff. How do they weigh those two things, that people are really suffering, theres real suffering in the country versus have i to deliver on a prol misi made in the campaign. Hes a president who touted himself as law and order as with the Border Security. Lets back up again about how remarkable it is that he blinked. This is Speaker Pelosis call. She survived the devastating nickname of nancy in this case. The president wanted to forge forward with an address there. They did suggest they looked at other sites, considered doing something in the white house itself. The president was unhappy with the optics of the white house, thought it seemed drab. The president , this is something we rarely see him do and it flies in the face in the narrative that hes the counterpuncher, that he hits back quick and doesnt fight. In this case he did but right now he doesnt seem willing to budge on the wall. You and josh have a piece in the Washington Post this morning, ace investigator or nonentity . Is his the de facto chief of staff . And, two, i was speaking to a ranking democrat last night after 9 00, who was greatly aggravated that i called him at home but thats besides the point, who indicated he doesnt know kushner and kushner has never been in his office. Sometimes 9 00 at night is the best time to call a source so no worries about that, mike. Jared kushner is someone we keep seeing in photographs with Vice President mike pence and Mick Mulvaney going to capitol hill, being part of the negotiations. The view is he is someone who wants to help his fatherinlaw and wants to find a solution here but there a skepticism. I spoke to loosia she said she likes Jared Kushner but he doesnt have the experience that so many others in this process do. He continues to tell the president that theres a bipartisan deal to be had. But democrats who have worked with kushner on reform say he doesnt realize we cant negotiate until the government reopens yet he continues to say theres some grand bargain on immigration. Lara trump, the president s daughterinlaw, was speaking i believe at a Campaign Rally and had a really interesting way of putting how the federal works are faring during the shutdown. It was during the interview. I dont know if we have that sound bite. Here it is. In terms of the workers who are coming to work and not getting paid, what would you say to them . Listen, its not fair to you and we all get that but this is so much bigger than any one person. It is a little bit of pain but its going to be for the future of our country. Actually, i think a lot of people are feeling a lot more than a little bit of pane not getting paid. I know she if feeds into the trump family, the president s lack of empathy. They have no idea to be out there in america, an american citizen working for a paycheck trying to achieve the American Dream but more realistically just doing their best to get through the week and looking for that paycheck. The suffering is real. Yeah, its interesting that the president initially in this process says that he empathizes and he understands what federal workers are going through but you rarely hear him talk about individual cases because they want to keep shifting the conversation to the wall and to the idea of Border Security more americans think that the Government Shutdown is a real crisis than think that the situation on the border is a real crisis. So they can keep saying this is for a big are cause, this is pfr border wall or else were going to have massive crimes in the country. But people arent buying that. And thats why the democrats feel confident they can sound firm on this. Their congressional offices are not being rung up by people saying open the government, open the government, theyre saying stand firm, you cant let the have his way or hell keep doing it time and again. Jackie, the democrats are standing firm, i having said that theres such a difference between and give things at that the working without pay to keep our nation safe and recognizing their suffering while you have the trump family. You have lara trump calling it a little bit of pain. Ivanka trump, posting pictures of her trips across the country. There seems to be a lack of empathy all the way to the top on this issue. Thats right. The contrast is startling. As the post has roareported ove the last few weeks, the shutdown has bolstered some peoples belief that a small government is doable and the government can function with a limited number of employees. You are seeing moderate dems especially, a lot of new, incoming feshman who federal workers and constituencies really starting to cave and move outside of party line because theyre itching to do get a deal done. Theyre feeling pressure that some republicans arent necessarily feeling, des spt pelosi pulled together her caucus yesterday and told them to sta and in response to an imagery crisis on the border does turn into is even on the smaller minutia, usda failing to inspect meat. As though things continue to add up and workers miss their second paycheck on friday and are and youib youible, this is an untenable situation. We look at the president and Congress Treating this like a political fight in washington and a twitter fight. The head of the fbi agents because he said resources now more than a month in drying he sass pool but its making it. Its like sending a carpenter to work but saying you cant have any wood, you cant have any nails, you cant have a hammer but here you are, go to work. And the fbi ultimately will end up in a situation where as good as they are, as creasive as i know this will be in, theyll miss something thats kitable. Hopefully well be able to stay on top of things. When reality is cant afford to bring grand jurors in, you cant the what happens when someone comes in to the Justice Department and they need immediately a wire tap or a subpoena and they cant get it because people arent working . Critical employees continue to go to work. If you need a wire tap, just like at any other point in time, agents and prosecutors come in everything happens more slowly. You make the case at some point there will be repercussions from that. And to joyces point while we have hundreds of thousands of federal workand just to give you a sense here, the president tweeti tweeting. More people working in usa today today thanhe tag joyce vance, robert costa, thank you all. Several National Polls show President Trumps job Approval Ratings dropping into the 30s, a record low for him in the wake of this ongoing Government Shutdown. A normal president would look at this reality, would have a while ago, and figured out an appropriate midcourse correction. We all know, however, that trump is not nancy pelosi accounting him a break. Apparently not going to happen. Jared kushners segting skills . Somehow i dont think so. After todays congressional vote, it will become even more clear. It is time to give up your wall fantasy, mr. Roughly pa 350trum is going to need his hard core base more than ever. So the plunging approval numbers right now actually might cause trump to dig in rather than change course, letting federal workers who care a lot more about paying bills than polling data suffer the consequences. Mitch mcconnell can change this. He needs to step up. He can step up. He can tell the president it is over, and he can help start repairing the damage being inflicted on americans across the country. Still ahead on morning joe, it is quite an iou. The federal government will owe a staggering 6 billion in back pay to the workers full lowed by were going to speak with one congressman whose district is bearing the brunt of washingtons failures. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. As a fitness junkie, i customize everything bike, wheels, saddle. Thats why i switched to Liberty Mutual. They customized my insurance, so i only pay for what i need. I insured my car, and my bike. My calves are custom too, but i cant insure those. Which is a crying shame. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Carl, i as my broker. Invite here. What am i paying you to manage my money . Its racquetball time. Carl, does your firm offer a satisfaction guarantee . Like schwab does. Guarantee . Carl, can you remind me what youve invested my money in. Its complicated. Are you asking enough questions about how your wealth is being managed . If not, talk to schwab. A modern approach to wealth management. And everyone ive ever opioloved away from me. Thing everything. I blew my ankle out and i got prescribed pain pills by my doctor. If making my detox public is gonna help somebody im all for it. I just wish i wouldve had a warning. And i dont add trup the years. S. But what i do count on. Is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best to make you everybody else. Means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. Does this sound dismal . It isnt. Its the most wonderful life on earth. Itand the army taught me wa lot about commitment. Which i apply to my life and my work. At comcast were commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. And if we are ever late, well give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. My name is antonio and im a technician at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. Among the hundreds of thousands of people affected by the shutdown, its impact is especially felt by native Americans Communities which rely on diminishing federal funds for access to health care and other services. Joining us republican congressman Mark Wayne Mullen of oklahoma. Hes a member of the cherokee nation, which represents 19 native american tribes in his district. Thank you very much for being on the show this morning. Thank you for having me on. Id like to hear a lot on the impact of the native american community. I understand youre concerned with good reason. Can i start by asking if you are so concerned about the impact, why arent we voting to end the shutdown . I think it takes two sides. Right now theres a lot of federal workers and native americans that are held political hostage because were at an impasse. I dont think the president is asking nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer to do anything they havent do and thats to vote on Border Security. Were running a National Risk and doing it at the sole cost of people who are innocent in this fight. And these are people youre especially concerned about and the impasse is over this billion dollar funding for a border wall. Well, a border wall isnt there a way to put that decision off perhaps and vote to reopen the government, which is something i would think you would want. We have. For two years weve been saying were going to get this done for the president but were at such an impact now with the National Security risk at the border, the president saying do this again. They did it with the National Fence act, that was for 52 billion. This were asking for 5. 7 billion. The only reason were here is because of a political promise and they see it as a political game. Nancy and chuck know its a National Security risk we have on our southern border. We might agree to disagree on whether the wall actually does that. Let me ask you about a decision clearly you have to make politically. Whats more important to you, the wall or the impact of the shutdown on native americans in your district . Well, the most important this evening thing is the National Security risk so the wall is more important at this point than ending the shutdown and the impact it has on your constituents . When we have the amount of drugs and 300 a people a week being killed from accidental overdoses from drugs being flown in from over the southern border, yes, thats a huge concern. Native americans shouldnt be in this fight. Its a federal obligation based on a trust because the United States forcibly fofd namoved na americans from where theyre traditionally at, then in return well take care of your health care. Im curious, are you telling your constituents the wall will stop the drugs from coming in the ports of entry . Are you telling constituents a wall is going to solve these problems . Its not just the wall, its Border Security, too. 805 million is to help scan vehicles coming across our port of entries. Right now only 20 of the vehicles get scanned coming into the United States yet weve caught 1. 7 Million Pounds of narcotics. With 850 million, we can inspect 100 of the vehicles as they flow in. Can you imagine the amount of drugs we can stop . I can imagine. Why dont you guys agree on that amount of money and put off the decision on the wall since thats holding up the government, its shutting it down and your constituents are hurting. Thats on you. You have to decide what you want at this point. I agree with that. People want to argue that wall doesnt work. Look at what happened in san diego. A wall does work. I personally have a fence around our property to keep people out. I have no problem having security for my family. Were saying lets have security for the entire country. So that 4 plus billion for that wall you say to your constituents will keep the drugs from coming into this country . Were going to cut it down. If we cut the drug flow into the United States down by half, right now youre more likely to be killed by a Drug Overdose than by a car accident. Thats the first time in u. S. History. We have a drug epidemic taking place inside the United States and native americans are hit unproportionally high by that. If you look at the ratio of race, native americans are hit the highest. Not only do we have i. H. S. , but we have a horrible problem with narcotics. When you have 90 of the heroin coming inside the United States is coming through our southern border, theres a huge issue. And three out of four opioid addicted individuals say they started because of opioids and now they switched to heroin. Tell me about your constituents who are being impacted by the shutdown, exactly how and do these constituents believe that a wall would stop everything that you just laid out there, the drugs coming in and the crime coming into the country. Is that the equation that they are making . Do they believe you . You know, when i sit down and i talk to them, which ill be talking to them again tomorrow and i talk to them all the time and i explain it, they get it. They say we understand it its just really horrible the position i find myself in. I apologize and say im sorry if im being held politically hostage. If youre one of the individuals thats lost a loved one because of illegal activity or a Drug Overdose or someone that got hit in a headon collision or they were killed by Violent Crime from an illegal crossing, they would say every life matters. If youre one of the 800,000 employees thats furloughed, youre going to find a mixed bag of information there. A lot of them i talked to understand the fight, they just dont like it. Congressman Mark Wayne Mullen, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. Thank you for giving me the time. I appreciate it. Coming up President Trump and kim jong un trade complements. K. A lot will happen in your life. Wrinkles just wont. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repairs dermproven retinol works so fast, it takes only one week to reveal younger looking skin. Neutrogena® that strip mall sushi, well,t im a bit unpredictable. Lets redecorate. Whatsyamatter tanya, i thought you loved being spontaneous . I do. And if youve got the wrong Home Insurance coverage, i might break the bank too. So get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me. Itin 30,000 precision parts. Or it isnt. Its inspected by mercedesbenz factorytrained technicians. Or it isnt. Its backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isnt. For those who never settle, its either mercedesbenz certified preowned, or it isnt. The mercedesbenz certified preowned sales event. Now through february 28th. Only at your authorized mercedesbenz dealer. Every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes welcome to fowler, indiana. One of the windiest places in america. And home to three bp wind farms. In the offchance the wind ever stops blowing here. The lights can keep on shining. Thanks to our natural gas. A smart partner to renewable energy. Its always ready when needed. Or. Not. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. To help the world keep advancing. North korean state media revealed during last weeks visit the north korean envoy gave President Trump a new letter from kim jong un and trump reciprocated. Kim apparently responded to trumps latest letter by expressing, quote, great satisfaction with the good personal letter and, quote, spoke highly of trump for his unusual determination for a second summit. The two are set to meet for the second time near the end of february. Richard haas, youre back from that region. Where are we in this relationship . We came out of the summit in singapore, President Trump had that loose outline of what north korea had agreed to. He said they agreed to complete denuclearization. Turns out north korea continues to build Nuclear Testing sites. What comes of a second summit . What are we doing here . The bottom line, willie, it all depends. Having a summit in and of itself is not a victory. The fact that the president is anxious to have it doesnt sway me. What we want here is specificity. We want to know what the north koreans have. We want a timeline where they dismantle it and we can verify. In exchange, we should be prepared to gradually relax some sanctions. The danger is once again we come out of a second summit where they rhetorically commit to denuclearization, they maybe get rid of a couple of things and they keep adding things. Its almost like theyre spooning water out of their bath tub at the same time waters coming in. Youre not making a lot of progress. We know since the first summit north korea has continued to build these missile sites. Im not against diplomacy. I tend not to think of it as a reward. The real question is whether weve structured this in a way that is likely to get tangible results. I see nothing that suggests we are prepared to discipline north korea and whats happening in the neen timeantime is all the e is unraveling, south korea, russia, they are moving closer to north korea. So, katty, count. He as naive but i thought after the first summit in singapore the entire pacific rim breathed a sigh of relief because the president of the United States told us theres no more Nuclear Threat coming from north korea. I guess not. Now the prospect of a second summit, doesnt this just enhance north korea on the world stage beyond their wildest expectations . Yeah, the stakes are higher Second Time Around given that first time around as richard was saying not very much was achieved. You cant go into a second summit for just the photo opportunity and the coins and the first time this happened wow factor because it didnt achieve anything. There is no real denuclearization happening. All of our intelligence agencies are showing us that. The chinese are now more goods are flowing into china than they were at the time. If youre going to have a second summit, its hard for me to see how this is going to accomplish very much more than the first one and yet the expectations are going to have to be that much higher because the first one didnt do very well. Its hard to see the rationale for a second summit. One thing i have been hearing that is positive thats developing is mike pompeo apparently had a very bad relationship with the spy chief in north korea. Hes now switching that to be dealing with the diplomats in north korea. Theres some hope that could get the channels of communication going better. Maybe thats why were talking about having another summit now. The fact that asia breathed a sigh of relief was partly because donald trump had ratcheted up the tensions and then eased back the tensions. You can point to trade, to the wall, a number of situations where donald trump says there is a crisis and then is deescalating it and north korea falls into that category. Theres two dangers here, one is we dont get enough from the north koreans second time and the second is that we give too much, where the United States distances itself from allies. Weve had troops in north korea for seven years and theyve kept the peace. Japan and other countries in the region that are dependent upon the United States are worried about both sides, we dont get enough and were prepared to do way too much for another rhetorical accomplishment at a second summit. Still ahead, beyond walls. Time magazine is out with a special report on why the forces of global migration cant be stopped. Thats coming up next on morning joe. Hey, darryl hey, thomas. If you were choosing a network, would you want the one the experts at rootmetrics say is number one in the nation . Sure, they probably know what theyre talking about. Or the one that j. D. Power says is highest in Network Quality by people who use it every day . This is a tough one. Well, not really, because verizon won both. So you dont even have to choose. Why didnt you just lead with that . Its like a fun thing. vo chosen by experts. Chosen by you. And now get apple music included, on us. Its the unlimited plan you need on the network you deserve. Switch now and get 300 off our best phones. Every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100 online. Now weve created a brand new way for you to sell your car. Whether its a few years old or dinosaur old, we want to buy your car. So go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our technowizardry calculates your cars value and gives you a real offer in seconds. When youre ready, well come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. Thats it. So ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way. At carvana. Introducing the all new lexus es. Every curve, every innovation every feeling. A product of mastery. Lease the 2019 es 350 for 399 mo. For 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. And the army taught me a lot about commitment. Which i apply to my life and my work. At comcast were commited to delivering the best experience possible, by being on time everytime. And if we are ever late, well give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. My name is antonio and im a technician at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. Ultimately the only longterm solution to the migration crisis is to help people build more hopeful futures in their home countries. Make their countries great again. Joining us now Time Magazines executive editor ben goldberger. This weeks issue is a special report entitled beyond walls, while the forces of global migration cant be stopped. Time reports if the worlds total population of International Migrants in were placed under one flag it would be the fifth largest country. The question now is whether the world can come to define the enormous population of International Migrants as an opportunity. Ben, good morning. Good to see you. Good to see you. Talk about the reporting that went into this. You said 250 million immigrant migrants. The u. N. Describes that as People Living outside the country of their births. Whats behind that number . Lots of things. There are truly Global Forces that are happening right now that are beyond people simply looking for a better life although that has been the source. Those fleeing war, those fleeing prosecution, failed states, you were talking about venezuela and the economic collapse there and lots of Central American countries the monopoly on violence which has forced people from their homes. Increasingly Climate Change, those are those in the South Pacific who are soon to find their homes uninhabitable so there is a decidedly Global Forces that are sending people all over the world and redrawing the boundaries of many countries. And forcing many countries especially in the west to reckon with that. The thought of migrants into their countries, talk about that side of it. What about the places theyre arriving . Its having a profound effect. Much of it is in our perception. If you look at the contributions of immigrants theyre very necessary. In much of europe and certainly all over the United States were facing a double barrelled problem of an aging population and a fertility rate that isnt keeping up so that means we need new arrivals and theyve been shown to create a greater percentage of gdp, but to many natives we tend to believe that immigrants are less educated than they are, less skilled than they are, contribute less than they are and in many ways account for even more of the population than they actually do. You talk about this number of 250 million migrants in the world but two quarters of them are migrants by choice. One of the real challenges is how difficult it is to get very hard firm numbers. We have on our cover a mother and daughter who fled guatemala, who were apprehended and separated at the United States border. They are there in part because they are among the 3 Million People seeking asylum worldwide. That is actually a helpful number because that distinguishes it from those leaving entirely by choice from what might be a perfectly stable situation rather than those fleeing real persecution. What are experts saying need to be done in terms of the longterm solutions . You know, because the impact as you say, both positive but some negative, both countries where theyre leaving from but also where theyre arriving. What needs to be done in the longterm . Thats a great question. The shutdown that we remain in is predicated on the insistence that all we need is a wall across one United States border. In fact, every expert you talk to believes that these cannot be single state solutions, that they need to be truly global and transnational. Within the United States, voices that often get crowded out are talking about something equivalent to a marshal plan for central america. A texas republican who knows more about the border impact has been leading voice advocating that. The thinking is if you can do something to remedy the situation in places where people are leaving it will ease the crunch on places where its arriving. Yeah, weve seen reports showing that peoples perception of ply grants as you alluded earlier to is different than the actual reality and im wondering what your take would be in europe. In the european example where Angela Merkel is losing power because of her stake on migration. Is it because they need to be told more clearly about migration . Is somebody not telling the emotional story of migration . What could be done to make the perception more in line with the reality . Its a fascinating question because the consequences have not been limited to merkel. Theyve been felt in many countries throughout. In britain. Very much in britain. You name it. In fact, i think its going to be a huge issue heading into the eu elections in may as they push for a majority. Its not as simple about messaging. Its impossible to tell people what to feel. Perception in politics is reality and theres not a truthfulness test before people pull a lever. All right. Time magazine, thank you so much. Well be looking out for the new issue of Time Magazine and weve got a lot more ahead of morning joe. Democrats accuse the President Trump of witness tampering after Michael Cohen postpones his testimony in the house and the president just tweeted, so interesting that bad lawyer, his lawyer for i believe 13 years, Michael Cohen who sadly will not be testifying before congress is using the lawyer of crooked Hillary Clinton to represent him. Gee, how did that happen . Remember, july 4th weekend when crooked went before fbi and wasnt sworn in . No tape, nothing . Wow. Plus, the president backs down from his state of the union battle with nancy pelosi. But says hell respond when the time is right. Morning joe is coming right back. Ning joe is coming right back im ken jacobus and i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. I earn unlimited 2 cash back on everything i buy. And last year, i earned 36,000 in cash back. Which i used to offer Health Insurance to my employees. Whats in your wallet . Its a revolution in sleep. The sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now during the january savings event. It senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. It even helps with this. So you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. Save up to 500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds, now ranked 1 in Customer Satisfaction with mattresses by j. D. Power. Plus 36month financing. Ends saturday. Sleep number. Proven, quality sleep. Every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. This round is on me. Hey, can you spot me . Come on in find your place, today, with silver sneakers. Included with Many Medicare plans. Call the number on the screen now or visit getsilversneakers. Com and if you feel, like i feel baby then come on, oh come on lets get it on applebees. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. On september 11th, 2001, our nation united because of an external threat. Remind our lawmakers that nations are not only destroyed from without, but from within. Lord, as some members of our armed forces seek sustenance at charity, food pantries and prepare to miss a second payday, something has to give. Forgive us, almighty god, for our sins of commission and omission. Remind each senator of the words of jesus of nazareth in luke 10 7, those who work deserve their pay. We pray in your sovereign name, amen. That was barry black, chaplain of the United States senate and a retired navy admiral offering a prayer for the nation mired in a shutdown that is now entering its 34th day. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is thursday, january 24th. Joe is still under the weather but along with willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnic barnicle. Jo and with the house ways and means committee. And also with us Washington Bureau chief susan paige and Senior Writer at politico, jake sherman, we are excited to announce that jake is joining the nbc news and msnbc family as a political contributor. Congratulations. Welcome aboard. Thank you. We will haze you today. To frame why the Senate Chaplain is literally praying to end the shutdown, air Traffic Controllers are working 60 hours a week without pay. Fbi agents say theyre losing ground in terror investigations. Prison guard shortages, food stamps in limbo, the tsa understaffed and there could be zero Economic Growth this quarter. Zero, if the shutdown lingers. With that as a backdrop, President Trump just backed down. He folded to nancy pelosi and the proxy fight over the state of the union. The president blinked first and the House Speaker just doubled down in a late night tweet. Were going to get to all of that, but first, new accusations that the commander in chief is threatening a witness. This is big. This is a really, really weird time. The president s former attorney, Michael Cohen postponed his upcoming appearance before the Oversight Committee citing quote, ongoing threats against his family from the president and Rudy Giuliani. Cohen released a statement through his Media Advisor saying he had put his family and their safety first. The president has tweeted twice about cohens family, once claiming that cohen cooperated with prosecutors to protect his wife and her father. Another time he tweeted quote, watch fatherinlaw and heres more. In order to get his sentence reduced he says ill have an idea. Ill give you some information on the president. Well, there is no information, but he should give information maybe on his fatherinlaw, because thats the one that people want to look at because where does that money, thats the money in the family and i guess he didnt want to talk about his fatherinlaw. Hes trying to get his sentence reduced so its pretty sad. Its weak and its very sad to watch a thing like that. I couldnt care less. What is his fatherinlaws name . I dont know but youll find out and youll look into it because nobody knows whats going on. Its about his fatherinlaw. His fatherinlaw has millions and millions. Its not a crime. Its not. It comes from the crew yan. Ukraine. He may have something to do with organized crime. Its really troubling and i just have to say this. Its been in the back of my mind ever since i saw that interview. It appears, i mean, some would say, that the president is doing an interview at fox and shes acting like the mob bosss lawyer here saying i sure will investigate him, sir. Isnt the question, sir, mr. President , are you threatening him . And also shes asking to name this private citizen. She wants a name. Luckily the president has no idea what the fatherinlaws name is. Taking notes. The chairman of the Oversight Committee called cohens concerns legitimate and quickly denounced what he called the president s and giulianis quote, textbook mob tactics. The chairman added this. Our nations laws prohibit efforts to discourage or intimidate or pressure a witness not to provide testimony to congress. The president should take no action to obstruct the independent oversight and investigative efforts including by seeking to discourage any witness from testifying in response to a duly authorized request from congress. Heres more from chairman cummings and Committee Member jackie spear. This is something that should upset every single american. This is the United States of america. This is not russia. This is called witness tampering. This is a crime and the congress of the United States has to exert its authority against a president now whos acting more like putin every day. I feel like im in the middle of a god father movie. If all of this is indeed true, weve got yet another article that could be posed in an impeachment trial. Congressman cummings says hes unsure if hell subpoena mr. Cohen but he says quote, we will hear from cohen. Joining us now, emily jane fox. Youve got some new reporting on Michael Cohens decision to postpone this systtestimony. Is he genuinely scared for the safety of his family . Heres fox news, talked to jake tapper, on and on talking about the quote, fatherinlaw. Is this actually about physical safety for Michael Cohen . You have the most powerful man in the world who has been going after Michael Cohen publicly for eight months now now going after private citizens who are his close family members. I dont think any of us would feel comfortable with the most powerful man in the world going after our spouses, our inlaws and then saying you know what, im going to voluntarily put myself and my family in the most public setting possible with millions and millions of people watching me across the country, across the world and im not going to do that to my family. Im not going to put them in further harm if the president is going to continue to threaten me and my family. I know he has been spending hours and hours and hours preparing for this testimony. He wanted to have this have you no decency moment in front of congress. Hes also continuing to cooperate with investigators. Hes been spending a lot of his time trying to tell the truth and ready to tell the truth to the American People but hes not going to do this at the expense of whatever the president is going to threaten to do to him and i think this is a test case. So cohen is one person who has been publicly threatened because of this test money. The president has felt cornered and scared about what Michael Cohen may reveal when he goes to congress. Hes been publicly lashing outs at him. Whos to say he wont do this to another witness whos called to testify in front of congress and so cohen is almost putting them in a situation where congress has to say were either going to do something to make sure that the president doesnt continue to do this to witnesses and doesnt intimidate people who are ready to tell the truth or theyre just not going to show up. Its not clear what can be done to stop the president or Rudy Giuliani. So what if Michael Cohen is in fact subpoenaed by chairman cummings . Its my reporting that he will go. But hes not required to answer questions if he goes. And so its my understanding that unless there are severe actions taken to try and stop the president beyond a statement and those statements from lawmakers were fairly strong, but i think in order for him to feel comfortable they would have to do something more if hes going to go and actually tell the truth the way that he intended to. Like what . As we just heard, the lawmakers say, there are this could be a violation of some of the articles. The witness intimidation and witness tampering is a crime. I was aware, i think most people were aware of the tweet watch fatherinlaw. But its one of a bundle of tweets that you get sick of looking at that the president issues multiple times a day. I had not seen the giuliani clip that we just saw, a former United States attorney, a lawyer, thats witness tampering what we just heard and saw from Rudy Giuliani. In plain sight. And the stunning silence from members of congress on both sides of the aisle, republican and democrat about someone so associated closely with the president of the United States witness tampering like that, they say nothing . I dont blame Michael Cohen for fearing what might happen. I completely agree with you because theres so much happening in plain sight and you wonder and i believe congresswoman has brought this up. He goes on the air so much, trump does it too, muddling the truth, throwing out bombs right and left about people. Oh, check it out, it might be true. This confuses people to the point where you dont see things happening in plain sight like witness tampering. Susan paige, what are the possibilities here now that we have these questions, now that we see what we see . Can Michael Cohen testify before congress after hes gone to jail . What are the possibilities here especially in terms of oversight and their now reaching outs to the president and demanding answers . Michael cohen will be testifying before congress. We may not know exactly when, we may not know how fully hell answer questions but that is going to happen. One of the things thats important about this exchange is that everything is now setting a precedent for the next two years. Thats why the state of the Union Standoff was important between the president and the speaker and thats why this is important. This is the first case off of a big witness testifying before congress, a Congressional Committee now controlled by democrats who are going to call witnesses and ask questions that have not been asked for the past two years. Weve got much more still to get to. Nancy pelosi gave no ground on the state of the union, but where does her rank and file stand on the shutdown . But first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. Mika, we are watching a huge rainstorm in the west coast and a whiplash to a wintry scene and then next week maybe even record cold. Its been one of those winters you dont know whats coming at you. Severe storms in central florida. Havent heard any reports of damage, but that line of storms continues across the state. Its now heading toward miami, Fort Lauderdale as we go throughout the next couple of hours. Also steady rain right up the east coast. You can see times square here. A lot of rain, much in the way of a slow commute. Washington, d. C. , weve had steady rains. Weve been seeing the airplanes coming in and out, so theres delays. The chilly morning behind this is nasty stuff. Bismark negative 29. Fargo, negative 30 windchills and this cold plunge is going to be swinging right through the great lakes as we go through tomorrow. Tomorrow morning at this time, negative 25 in chicago. A little piece of this comes to the east on saturday but not too bad. Travel delays, its warm, windy and also rainy. Then as we head toward the weekend outlook, calm conditions but this cold snap is going to stay with us in the great lakes. A lot of lake effect snow and that will be the worst of it. By sunday its calm, just all these little clipper systems and that means more and more cold. So if you have any air travel today, we do expect delays. New york city, winds could gust to 40 miles per hour. Temperatures are in the 50s. May be march before we do that again. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Morning jo well be right back. Molly my np spends a lot of time with me and gives me a lot of attention which led to my diagnosis. She initiated tests and found out what was wrong. Shes treated both my children since they were born. Bridgette i feel that my np cares about me as a person and not just if im sick or not. Molly and i really love my Nurse Practitioner because we have such a strong connection. I know that whenever i call, shell be there for me. My name is molly and we choose nps. Np consider an np. When patients choose, patients win. Every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Little things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not a cream. Its a pill that treats moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis differently. With otezla,75 clearer skin is achievable. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. [indistinct conversation] [friend] ive never seen that before. I have. Now to this. In a late night twitter exchange, President Trump backed down to House Speaker nancy pelosi on the state of the union this tuesday. Acknowledging that she controls the real estate on capitol hill. In tweets sent after 7 00 p. M. In washington, the president wrote as the shutdown was going on nancy pelosi asked me to give the state of the Union Address. She then changed her mind because of the shutdown but at a later date. I will do the shaddress when th shutdown is over. There is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the house chamber. I look forward to giving a great state of the Union Address in the near future. Shortly before midnight the speaker responded, mr. President , i hope by saying near future you mean you will support the house passed package to end the shutdown that the senate will vote on tomorrow. Please accept this proposal so we can reopen government, repay our federal workers and then negotiate our differences. Willie, this is this is delicious for democrats who wanted nancy pelosi to step up and push back at this president and in what may be somewhat of a symbolic battle. It seems like for the first time in his life he got the answer no and he had to live with it. Well, Speaker Pelosi has held the line throughout this shutdown and she is the one person it seems that President Trump actually respects in washington. The way he talks about her, the way he addresses her, the way he now responds to her demands and request is unlike other people weve seen throughout washington and jake sherman, the question now is, were back from the brink a little bit from this state of the Union Address but what happens from here . Weve got to two votes in the senate. Either expected to get to 60 votes it needs but does that get people a little bit closer to something to end the shutdown here . Yes and no. I mean, theres two distinct dynamics happening at the same time. Number one, there is this thought in which nancy pelosi is putting border wall money on the table and is saying shes looking to get some sort of compromise in the coming weeks. Shes now saying she will give upwards of 5 billion but no wall money. But she is willing to talk about Border Security. Then you have this incredibly bizarre standoff, which by the way, republicans thought yesterday that they were winning. They were daring nancy pelosi to disinvite formally the president from giving the state of the union. She did it basically without blinking an eye and the president backed down. Thats an important dynamic because it does reestablish pelosi as the it establishes her primacy on capitol hill which is incredibly important. In the next couple days two things need to happen. Nancy pelosi and Mitch Mcconnell need to get engaged with each other. They are the only two people at this point along with Chuck Schumer who can get a deal and the deal that we know we kind of understand what the contours of this deal are. They are going to be a big Border Security package, several billion dollars, maybe some modest changes to immigration policy, and maybe some promise that they will look at further ways to secure the border. The president according to pelosi who again controls the house, the president is getting used to this house, but controls the house. Hes not getting any money for the wall. Shes not giving it and those dynamics are not going to change. Coming up, how the shutdown is impacting President Trumps poll numbers. Hes dropped eight points from december but is the base still behind him . Morning joe back in a moment. Morning joe back in a moment every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100 online. Now weve created a brand new way for you to sell your car. Whether its a few years old or dinosaur old, we want to buy your car. So go to carvana and enter your license plate, answer a few questions, and our technowizardry calculates your cars value and gives you a real offer in seconds. When youre ready, well come to you, pay you on the spot, and pick up your car. Thats it. So ditch the old way of selling your car and say hello to the new way. At carvana. Im not really a, i thought wall street guy. Ns. Whats the hesitation . Eh, it just feels too complicated, you know . Well sure, at first, but jj can help you with that. Jj, will you break it down for this gentleman . Hey, ian. You know, at Td Ameritrade, we can walk you through your options trades step by step until youre comfortable. I could be up for that. Thats taking options trading from wall st. To main st. Hey guys, wanna play some pool . Eh, im not really a pool guy. Whats the hesitation . Its just complicated. Stepbystep options trading support from Td Ameritrade this round is on me. Hey, can you spot me . Come on in find your place, today, with silver sneakers. Included with Many Medicare plans. Call the number on the screen now or visit getsilversneakers. Com youll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day. Ou . Complicated relationship with milk . Pour on the lactaid, 100 real milk, just without that annoying lactose. Mmm, thats good. Another new poll shows that the shutdown is crashing President Trumps Approval Rating. The Associated Press puts the president s job approval at just 34 , down 8 points from december. Meanwhile, disapproval of his performance has climbed up to 65 up nine points from just before the shutdown began. His rating is near its lowest in two years, dropping significantly among independents. This after a cbs news poll found his Approval Rating has fallen to 36 . Asked in a separate question if a border wall is worth the Government Shutdown, 71 said no. Still, the Trump Administration is reportedly asking Agency Leaders for a list of programs that would be affected if the shutdown continues for the next several weeks. A senior official with the office of management and budget tells nbc news quote, prudent management means planning and preparing for events without known end dates. This partial lapse in appropriations, unfunded agencies are being asked to continue with omb an ongoing list of programs that could be impacted within the coming weeks. According to the Washington Post, Mick Mulvaney has pressed leaders for a list of high impact programs that would be jeopardized if the shutdown continues into march and april. People familiar with the directive told the post mulvaney wants the list no later than friday and its the firmest evidence that the white house is preparing for a lengthy funding lapse that could have snowballing consequences for the economy and government services. Meanwhile, chief white house economist said, get this, that there could be zero growth in the First Quarter if the shutdown continues that long. Zero. Could we get zero growth . I just want to nail this down. Yes, we could. We could. Wow. If it extended for the whole quarter and given the fact that the First Quarter tends to be low because of residuals you could end up with a number very close to zero. In terms of the workers who are coming to work and not getting paid what would you say to them . Listen, this is its not fair to you and we all get that, but this is so much bigger than any one person. It is a little bit of pain, but its going to be for the future of our country. Laura trump saying its a little bit of pain. She says she was misunderstood. Its not a little bit of pain though. Its a lot of pain. A lot of human suffering across the country. Millions of American People. Michael steele, look at these poll numbers and tell me how republicans wouldnt at this point be urging Mitch Mcconnell to figure something out because this cannot go on till march and april and this white house is preparing for it to go on in march and april. Are republicans going to stay with there . I think that what youre seeing today with these votes in the senate is were not watching the ice break but were hearing it creek. This is the beginning of the end of the shutdown. Were going the see an effort after we see that the president s plan cant pass and the democrats plan cant pass youre going to see probably senator mcconnell and Speaker Pelosi working together to find the compromise language that gets the government open again, not today, not tomorrow, but in the next week or two and this is an easy thing. The wall is not a real policy. There are places on the border where a physical barrier makes sense. There are places on the border where it doesnt. You can improve and increase Border Security without building a game of thrones style wall across the southern border of the United States and thats exactly what were going to do. Well, hold on, willie, sorry. Just to follow up, can democrats give him some sort of symbolic save face thing, an amount of money for the stupid wall and then get a lot more in terms of Border Security and other immigration issues that are important to them . Is there any movement here thats possible with Mitch Mcconnell . Sure, i think that this is a this is going to end with a typical washington fudge where democrats will agree to additional money for Border Security and they will say theres no wall, were not giving money for a wall. Theyre not going to build a wall. The president will say, look at all this money i got to build a wall, to improve Border Security, and everyone lives to find another day. This is pretty extraordinary here. Five former Homeland Security secretaries including President Trumps former chief of staff, john kelly, his chief of staff as of a couple weeks ago are calling on the president and congress to end the shutdown. Nbc news has obtained a copy of the letter. It states that one of the unfortunate consequences of the shutdown has been the need for some Homeland Security employees to seek unemployment or to find a new job. The letter reads in part, we write to you today with a simple message. Fund the Critical Mission of dhs. Homeland security is National Security. Dhs has a Vital Mission to secure the nation from the many threats we face. Aviation bprofessionals are sounding the alarm about public safety. This joint statement was released yesterday. In our risk averse industry, we cannot even calculate the level of risk or predict the point where the entire system will break. Go back to john kelly for a second. He was President Trumps chief of staff for almost two years. He has now signed on to a letter saying end the shutdown. He knows how stupid the shutdown is. And he knows how really relatively easy it would be to end the shutdown if both sides were not so dug in and the politics of this were not so polarized. Michael steele who worked for john boehner, he had a very Good Relationship with bill daly in the obama white house. They spoke regularly. They almost got a big budget deal done. They were speaking to each other. Now it seems both sides are froze in their lack of movement that we have the acting chief of staff talking about what to do to prepare for an extended shutdown into march or april. Susan, i dont know about you, but i mean, watching this play out is just a stunning, stunning portrait of complete ignorance on both sides of what the reality of this shutdown is doing, not just to the 800,000 people not getting their check for the second time, but to the country itself. You know, its cold comfort to people across the country especially the federal workers affected by this, that they see this tit for tat debate going on in washington but i think that is the force thats going to make this get resolved. You think about who broke yesterday with the president . Cory gardener told the denver post he would vote for the democratic bill coming up in the senate today. Cory gardener up for reelection in colorado next year. Just finished a term as chairman of the Senate Campaign committee for the gop. Thats a message that senators and congressmen on the republican side as well as the democratic side are hearing from people from their constituents that this needs to stop and not in march or april. That would be extraordinary for this to extend until then. The folks at davos probably arent personally feeling the impact of the shutdown but as d. C. s dysfunction starts to affect the wider economy, the worlds Business Leaders are taking notice. Well get a live report from the forum next on morning joe. The forum next on morning joe. Building a better bank starts with looking at something old, and saying, really . So capital one is building something completely new. Capital one cafes. Inviting places with people here to help you, not sell you. And savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. Because thats how it should be. You can open one from right here or anywhere in 5 minutes. Seriously, 5 minutes. This is banking reimagined. Whats in your wallet . Woman 1 this. Woman 2 . This. Man 1 . This is my body of proof. Man 2 proof of less joint pain. Woman 3 . And clearer skin. Man 3 proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis. Woman 4 . With humira. Woman 5 humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. Humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. avo humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Woman 6 ask your rheumatologist about humira. Woman 7 go to mypsaproof. Com to see proof in action. Woman 7 go to mypsaproof. Com this simple banana peel represents a bold idea a way to create energy from household trash. It not only saves about 80 in carbon emissions. It helps reduce landfill waste. Thats why bp is partnering with a California Company fulcrum bioenergy. To turn garbage into jet fuel. Because we cant let any good ideas go to waste. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. To help the world keep advancing. Welcome back to morning joe. The aps jonathan la mere is back with us and we have historian and author neall ferguson. His book is out now in the paperback and go through the premise of the book because i wonder if it is now even further backed up given the events since the book first came out. Well, the core argument is that we thought having an interconnected online world of networks would be awesome and wed all share cat videos and solve the worlds problems in a Global Community, but unfortunately that turned out to be wrong and what giant Online Social Networks do is to divide us and to act as engines for the circulation of fake news and extreme views which is almost as important as untruths so i think we got this wrong and were scrambling to cope with the consequences. Not only that, but of course creating giant Online Social Networks expose democracy to all kinds of hostile actors including foreign ones like the russian government. We now understand better what happened in 2016 but i dont think we fully grasp things like that are still going on and new things fake video for example, are likely to become a bigger problem as we head towards 2020. There isnt really an answer to this question yet although debates have finally begun on do we break up the Big Tech Companies, do we regulate them more strictly and so i think they got right that were living in the biggest publics fear as the Printing Press was produced in europe in the late 16th century. Facebook has 2 billion users and now twitter and other companies are having to go back and decide of whose account southbound suspended based on which views and is that slanted in one direction or another. Lets take facebook, because its the much larger of the companies. What would you do at this point with facebook in terms of fake news, in terms of russian influence on you are elections . How do you handle that big of a problem . Whats happening is under pressure from the public and from politicians facebook is saying its going to fix itself. It means expanding its terms of service and using them to police socalled hate speech, but who decides what hate speech is . Ultimately this ends up being a kind of sensorship wielded by the Biggest Media Companies in history. By the way, the europeans are pushing the companies by saying you must do censorship for us otherwise well fine you and i think regulators are lagging behind. I think weave got to have a very serious conversation about a different approach. I think the right approach is to look hard at the immunity from liability for content that was created back in 96 in the Communications Decency act. When Internet Companies were tiny. When they were startups. This was supposed to help them. They are essentially acting as media companies, massive content public occasion with no reliability. The other thing i would do simultaneously would be to insist that some kind of First Amendment rights exist online. The internet is the Public Square now. Lets face it. And if the decision as to who can speak and who cannot speak is Mark Zuckerbergs or his counterparts, were in a bad place. The only real difference between us and china is the decisions about who gets censored are taken by private government. It sometimes feels like whack a mole. So specifically about fake news though, if you have groups that are created and invented and they become users on facebook purely to ferment hate and sow the seeds of division youre talking about, how do you slow that down . Whats the power of facebook to at least stop having these basically fronts for organizations, perhaps foreign, perhaps domestic that want to continue to divide us . I think the incentive is to say were hiring 10,000 or 20,000 content moderators and were going to fix the algorithm so it can identify bad actors and were going to shut down fake accounts and look how many fake accounts we shut down last week and make it seem that theyre acting but whats the downside . Whats the risk . At the moment they may face a major fine for violating users privacy on con sent dating back to 2011, but really theres not that much pressure on them. Thats why i think this immunity from liability from content is their achilles heel. You could massively increase their liability by driving some more holes through that immunity and yet at the same time i think we have to hold them to account so theyre not the new censors in the new big brothers in our lives which is why you have to balance that by saying look, youre not subject to the 1st amendment because youre private corporations but you ought to be because youre so important in our lives. Something like 80 of americans consume news via facebook or google. There has never been so much power in the hands of private actors. We do have to change the regulatory landscape here. I dont think anti trust is the answer and so the square offers a different approach. You mentioned just now the difference between the United States and china and thats a big part of it. These tech companies, they transcend borders. People can log in all over the world and these countries have very different laws. How do you reach a solution there . How are these Networks Managed when theres so many different regulations in so many places. Thats a problem that the Network Platforms have been grappling with for a long time but whats changed is the realization that were heading into a new kind of cold war. There are two internets. An american one and a chinese one and the chinese are rolling out new Technology Platforms particularly when it comes to payments that offer a meaningful challenge to u. S. Dominance. We just assumed that the u. S. Would dominate the world and china would dom natd china. I dont think thats true anymore. Theres an arms race in effect and weve got to realize thats as serious an arms race as happened in the cold war on nuclear weapons. Thats what we thought cyber war was going to be about, taking down infrastructure. Wrong. Cyber war is about information war. The sort that the russians waged against us very successfully in 2016 so i think our National Security doctrine lags behind and the Big Tech Companies because they still think of themselves as being accountable to a Global Community dont see that they really have to be playing a part in u. S. National security. They are american companies, after all. All right. Thank you so much. His book, the square and the tower is available now in paperback. And joining us now from the World Economic forum is stephanie rule. Neall was bringing up issues that do need addressing. Are they giving any answers in davos . Reporter its amazing. Neall is often a fixture and exactly the issues you were just discussing are the same issues being discussed here from Business Leaders, from government leaders. We were talking about this yesterday. Of course not the u. S. Government. Earlier today i spoke to penny and she said the same thing i heard from others. We need bipartisanship. We need government leadership but people are saying we dont expect the United States to be here because we dont have our own house in order and she went on to talk about the problem and impact around this Government Shutdown. Theres absolutely a major role for government to sit an example but our government is shut down. Weve created this manufacturered crisis where i was in government, i lived through a shutdown in 2013 and i saw the damage that was done. Not just the fact that its, you know, our food is not safe and you cant get your food stamps, you cant get your tax refund, you cant, you know, its you know, the question is whats happening to flight safety, et cetera, i mean, that damage, but the real damage is what are we telling our work force in the federal government . Were telling you youre not essential. Or we need you but im not going to pay you. I dont value you. Thats horrific. Reporter now, she went on to say the wall funding, this crisis, the shutdown is a manufactured crisis. Shes not alone. Ive heard people across the board saying the shutdown in the United States is manufactured and it makes no sense because weve got real problems. The problems you were just talking about moments ago. Angela merkel was on the stage talking about the grave doubts she has about this rise in populism. If you take the America First principle, trump says it, weve heard it from brazil and others, this idea were suffering, we need to take care of our own first and then well take care of others. She says at the surface that sounds like it makes sense, but the world is far more complicated than that. And multilateral agreements and working with our allies is the only path forward. Though merkel and others have said clearly the system as its been, capitalism, our democracy need updates because its not working for everyone. Weve got the swiss Cross Country ski Team Practicing behind you. Its making a great visual there. If you could, just speak to some of the chaos in the United States politically and not just about the shutdown but over the last couple of years and how the world feels that and how the world interprets that and if the world is concerned about that. In other words, the uncertainty of not knowing where the United States stands from one minute to the next on the economy, on our relationships with organizations like nato and the u. N. , what does that do to foreign leaders and to foreign Business Leaders . Reporter listen, we have talked about this. President trumps lack of predictability is a problem especially when what he says and his own administration arent aligned, but something thats interesting, i dont hear that much trump criticism. The siren call i hear more are from those who are saying weve got problems across the world. You know, yesterday i was saying businesses are stepping in and stepping up. They might be, but thats not enough. When businesses are saying im going to do more, thats sort of fill an tlopic. If we dont have systemic changes then whats going to happen to all those people out there . We talk about mary barra shutting down factories, whose responsibilities is to help those people . That problem is not unique to the United States, its not unique to europe but i can say that finally its not an abstract issue. People are starting to realize its a crisis and one mistake theyve made here in davos is not having those voices here. Theres not a lot of voices from emerging markets. So its as though having an entire board of people saying im going to solve a problem that i dont though what it feels like because for everyone here theyre not having that problem. I mean, if you run through the list of people that are not at davos this year, you mentioned donald trump. Hes not the only one that had to stay away. Teresa may cant make it. Macron cant make it. Its almost indicative that summit hails in the weakened democracies. You nailed it. Theres onot so much donald trump is getting it wrong criticism, theres more, theres really problems in the world. When you see World Leaders like that cant come, maybe this is a moment of crisis where it cracks and they say were forced. Were forced to have to have businesses step up. Yesterday i spoke to a ceo who said you know what . We thought that the tax cut was great for us, but in hindsight, there probably should have been limitations. The tax cut shouldnt have allowed the buybacks as we saw. So even Corporate Leaders are saying not all of this is got t. All right. Stephanie ruhle, thank you so much. For joining us from davos. Great conversation. Up next, is Nuclear Energy the answer to the Climate Crisis . Were going to talk to the former chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Next on morning joe. Oe. Because youve made sure this sensor and this machine are integrated. She can talk to him, yes. Atta, boy. Some people assign genders to machines. And you can be sure you wont have any problems. Except for the daily theft of your danish. Not cool at t provides edge to edge intelligence. It can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. Thats the power of. This shipment will be delivered. Moits not theirs, its mine. The rx350l with three rows for up to seven passengers. Lease the 2019 rx350 for 449 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. And i dont add trup the years. S. But what i do count on. Is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. Boost® high protein. Be up for life. Not long ago, ronda started here. And then, more jobs began to appear. These techs in a lab. This builder in a hardhat. The welders and electricians who do all of that. The diner staffed up cause they all needed lunch. Teachers. Doctors. Jobs grew a bunch. What started with one job spread all around. Because each job in energy creates many more in this town. Energy lives here. Its a revolution in sleep. The sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now during the january savings event. It senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. It even helps with this. So you wake up ready to put your pedal to the metal. Save up to 500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds, now ranked 1 in Customer Satisfaction with mattresses by j. D. Power. Plus 36month financing. Ends saturday. Sleep number. Proven, quality sleep. This round is on me. Hey, can you spot me . Come on in find your place, today, with silver sneakers. Included with Many Medicare plans. Call the number on the screen now or visit getsilversneakers. Com every day, visionaries are creating the future. So, every day, we put our latest technology and vast expertise to work. the United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Our Nuclear Power plants have undergone exhaustive study and have been declared safe for any number of extreme conting contingen contingencies. When we see a crisis like the one in japan, we have a responsibility to learn from this event and to draw from those lessons to ensure the safety and security of our people. That was president obama in his remarks six days after the 2011 earthquake and tsunami that led to the Nuclear Disaster at fukushima in japan. Today, 98 reactors at 59 commercial sites in the u. S. Provide power across the country. Using a technology heralded by proponents as a savior from Climate Change and the key to solving the worlds growing energy needs. But our next guest says that Nuclear Power is more hazardous than it is worth. And warns that its continued use will lead to catastrophe in this country or somewhere else in the world. Former chairman of the u. S. Nuclear regulatory commission, gregory yatsko joins us now. Hes the author of the new memoir entitled confessions of a Rogue Nuclear regular u later. Thank you for joining us on the show. Especially as your tenure as the commissioner ended in a little bit of controversy. Tell me first why you wrote the book. Well, i wanted people to really understand how this industry was regulated and how it works. This is a technology thats hazardous. Its a technology that at any moment really could lead to the kind of catastrophic accident we saw at fukushima. I thought people should understand that. As you said, people are talking about Nuclear Power as the savior to Climate Change. That worries me more than the risk of a Nuclear Power accident because i dont think it can rise to that challenge. Your mind, you say, was changed about Nuclear Power. Tell me about the evolution of that change and how it coincided with your experience as noc commissioner. I started in washington as a physicist. I looked at every issue based on the facts, made hypothesis and revised as i learned new fact. The biggest fact that changed my mind was this accident in fukushima. I saw 100,000 people evacuated from their homes. Many permanently evacuated. Thats the kind of thing you should never see from a source that generates electricity. And moreover, we were promised and the industry pledged these kinds of accidents were in the past. I began to realize this is a technology that simply was too hazardous to really be a future technology. Walk us through what impact still is found there on the ground in japan. Theres large areas of the plant still uninhabitable. Most evacuated cant return to their homes. Lives have been disrupted. In a way we think more with wars than with energy generation. And you have a lot of radioactive water thats being stored at the site. That people really dont know what to do with. So it will be decades before how likely could Something Like this happen in the United States . You know, its so hard to predict. The plants operate on this precipice of normal operation on one side and catastrophic failure on the other. What we know is accidents will happen. Its just a matter of when and where. Its hard to predict. Which is why the industry often touts that everythings fine. So for people who are trying to find a counter to fossil fuels in the fight against global warming. Having Nuclear Power, this was the hope, right, that Nuclear Power could be made safer and it could be the counter in our effort to keep Global Temperatures from going up. If you weigh the risks of higher Global Temperatures because of fossil fuel increase usage and Nuclear Power, you still come down firmly in the favor of nonNuclear Power . Yes. The realities are right now in the marketplace cleaner sun, wind, geothermal. These technologies are actually in some cases cheaper than nuclear and theyre getting cheaper much, much faster. I actually think the futures pretty hopeful. What we need to do is let the markets decide and get out of the way of subsidizing reactors to try and keep them around. The reason people are doing that is to keep the reactors aar s a. Theyre not really doing it to deal with Climate Change. You just have to let the market decide and do things with gas to make gas a little more expensive. If you do that, the things that are going to fill in is really wind, sun and geothermal. Its not nuclear. Thats what were seeing in the market here in the u. S. And the world. Gregory, thank you so much. The book is confessions of a Rogue Nuclear regulator. Its out now. Thanks very much for being on the show this morning. It is time now for final thoughts. Jonathan lamere, what are you looking at today . Could mitch move the needle in any way, might he . The president last night blinked on the state of the union. He seems far less likely to blink on the demand for the border wall. There will be legislation voted on in the senate today that could reopen the government. It seems those pieces of legislation do not have the votes needed. So what happens next . There is a movement amorning House Democrats to have their own proposal which will increase the amount of money for Border Security but it wont be for a wall. Is that enough for the president to try to spin that as some sort of victory for him . So it still depends on the president. Katie kay, final thoughts . Hell have to watch his base carefully and whether the wall this is just semantics, whether the wall has to be that critical part for him to be able to budge. There is some pressure from democrats who are in trump districts. But nancy pelosi feels she has the parties firmly under her control. She seems to have the power. She seems to have the ability to wield it against this president. And she has shown the president this just when it comes to the state of the union. So it should be an interesting dynamic to look forward to today. That does it for us this morning. Hallie jackson picks up the coverage. Mika, thank you. Im in for stephanie ruhle, on assignment in davos where in just a few minutes shes going to be bringing us a live interview with gary cohn. Back here at home, the state of the union, like the rest of the government, is in a state of suspended animation. On hold indefinitely. As President Trump gives in to Speaker Pelosi. No speech for as long as the shutdown goes. With the Senate Holding dueling votes to end this thing today. Neither bill is expec