Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20181221

Between President Trump and American Service members is walking away. Defense secretary jim mattis is leaving the administration in what the New York Times calls an extraordinary rebuke of the president. From the washington post, the president has single handedly propelled the u. S. Government into crisis. The wall street journal editorialal board is sounding the alarm and former defense secretary and cia chief leon panetta says the constant state of chaos immediate may satisfy the president s need for attention, but it is raising hell with the country. Welcome to morning joe. It is friday, december 21st. With us, we have National Affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc and cohost and executive producer of showtimes the circus john highlyman, republican strategist Susan Delpercio, author of the book a world in disarray richard haass, editor of commentary magazine and columnist New York Post john pedoritz, now chief international and security diplomacyist james stevritis and former u. S. Ambassador to nato, former state Department Spokesman Nicholas Burns joins us this morning. Hes professor of security and International Relations at the Harvard School of government. It has been quite a week. Yesterday was quite a day. You have the markets obviously becoming more unstable. You have mueller closing in. You have Senate Republicans in open revolt more and more by the day. You have Vladimir Putin gaining a wider control of the middle east, kept out of the middle east since 1973. Now donald trump is turning it over to Vladimir Putin. And you have america, mika, in retreat across the globe and the most extraordinary resignation in modern american historiel, certainly in the past 40 years. What an incredible week its been. So were going to get to that resignation and specifically the Resignation Letter from defense secretary james mattis in just a moment. Its staggering. But first, were now 701 days into the Trump Presidency. And we want to begin by recapping just one week in this administration, one week. Apparently an administration unraveling from within. As probes expanded into more of the president s political business and foreign ties on friday, a week ago today, his search for a new chief of staff failed, resulting in an interim pick, one who we found had to called trump a, quote, terrible human being right before the 2016 election. On friday, ryan zinke resigned hope to go ward off investigations from the newly empowered House Democrats. That was followed by the president lashing out on twitter calling his former attorney a rat and bashing the fbi. On monday, the markets continued their slide into the worst december since the great depression. The Senate Intelligence committee reported that social media povts by russians aimed at helping trump continued into his administration. This time, attacking Robert Mueller. Monday saw indictments in a turkey scheme involving former National Security adviser Michael Flynn, who on tuesday cuesed by a judge of selling outs his country. And warned to cooperate more with the special counsel or face jail thyime. Then on wednesday, President Trump tweeted seemingly ow of the blue for a full withdrawal from syria taking the pentagon by surprise and infur yatdiiati republicans on capitol hill. Yesterday, trump blew up a deal to fund the government over conservative criticism on a border wall and that brings us to the secretary of defense resigning in protest of the president s world view, the first time that has ever happened. It was an incredible week. The pentagon Spokesman Says secretary mattis visited the white house on thursday afternoon, met with President Trump and hand delivered a letter of resignation dated yesterday. It came as the president doubled down on his syria withdrawal. And reports emerged of a major pullout from afghanistan. The letter includes none of the usual thanks and praise for the president s leadership or accomplishments nor even a salutation at the end. Here we go. Quote, one core belief i have always held is that our strength as a nation is inex trickbly linked to the strength of our unique and comprehensive system of alliances and partnerships. Similarly, i believe we must be resolution and unambiguous in our approach to those countries whose Strategic Interests are increasingly intention with ours. It is clear that china and russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model, gaining Veto Authority over other nations economic, diplomatic and security decisions, to promote their own interests at the expense of their neighbors, america and our allies. That is why we must use all the tools of American Power to provide for the common defense. My views on treating allies with respect and also being clear eyed about both maligneed actors and strategic competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades of immersion in these issues. Because you have the right to have a secretary of defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other ujts is, i believe it is right for me to step down from my position. Mattis gave an end date for his tenure of february 28th. Admiral, your reaction to yesterdays events and the departure of if the james mattis. You know, ive known jim mattis for decades, of course. And when he was a colonel, his call sign was not mad dog. His actual call sign was chaos, which stands for colonel has an outstanding solution. It was an affectionate term for a full colonel who flew around the battlefield and inflicted chaos on his opponents. Thats a pretty appropriate word for today. And i think the thing to key in on here is that letter. The three salient points are allies, partners and france. This network that our country enjoys that he saw being taken apart. Number two is the rise of strategic competitors, russia, china, and in particular the way were essentially ceding the middle east to russia. Deep, deep concern to jim. And thirdly, not staying firm, going after terror, the maligned actors piece. So allies, partners, friends, strategic competitors and going after the terrorists, the last one to be to pull out of syria and the supposedly planned pullout of afghanistan. Those ought to worry us deeply because thats how were going to see the return of global terrorism the leaving that zone open. Mattis saw all of that. I think he wanted to stay, but he realized as we talked about yesterday on the program, joe and mika, that to stay any longer, he would have been an enabler. He had to make that choice. It was a terrible choice for james mattis. I feel for him with all my heart. But he made the right choice, in my view. Ambassador nick burns, Something Like this haevent happened in over 40 years. It happens very rarely that you have a cabinet official departing an administration in protest. But it certainly happened yesterday with jim mattis. The language was searing and anybody thats been covering the news over the past two years, our watching the news couldnt have missed his mattis reference to russia and that he sees russia as an enemy and hes disappointed in the fact that donald trump doesnt understand that. Well, youre right, joe. This was a letter of protest. And it was also a letter of principal. And secretary mattis is reminding the president , but also reminding all of us of whats really important for the United States overseas, that we have to be committed to our allies and President Trump, of course, is the weakest american president to ever lead the Nato Alliance and hes made the eu into a competitor. And mattis also said that russia and china are our adversaries and we have to stand up to them and we have to have strong and consistent policies and President Trump has been the weakest american president in trying to oppose Vladimir Putin. Hes cozied up to putin. This is going to hurt the United States because jim mattis was the strongest member of the cabinet, the most experienced member of the cabinet. Had the most credibility with the rest of the world. The person that people felt could restrain this feckless and cynical president. So his absence after february 28th is going to hurt our country. Youve seen already the damage hes done in announcing the pull out from syria, a gift you to putin and the iranians and hezbollah. Now this damage hes done trying to get the taliban to compromise with us. Why would they compromise with us when they know were going to be leaving both in afghanistan and syria . So a very consequential loss for us. Pritchard haass, the ambassador used the term feckless to describe donald trump. Its ironic that a man who campaigned on strength has, in fact, become the most feckless and weak president since the well, world war ii. You look at what he has done. Hes pulling out of syria. Hes ceding it to the iranians, isis and russia. Hes pulling out of afghanistan. Hes his ambassador said hes basically blown up our negotiations with the taliban to try to negotiate a peace and hes sent a message such that now the North Koreans are saying theyre going to back away with any general deals they had made with this white house before. What is next . The its often said the truth is the First Casualty of war. The First Casualty is americas reputation. And any anything we have for dependability, for reliability, has been shredded. What were doing to the kurds will be case 1. More broadly, afghanistan may be two. Weve had the problems with our closest allies in europe. But i think when others look at it, i wouldnt be shocked if in the next couple of days, we saw a north korean proposal that linked some products of getting rid of missiles to the mass reduction of american true presence in south korea. And donald trump, for all i know, might be tempted by it. Hes seen the costs in burdens of American Leadership as outweighing the benefits. On one level, this is totally consistent with what i think is a seriously flawed and misguided view. He doesnt seem to understand that when bad things happening in the world, his goal of making America Great again could be fatally compromised. He talked about, you know, giving up you know, weve defeated the terrorists. Well, terrorists are not defeated. Theres no battleship missouri signing ceremony in the war against isis or anybody else. They will reconstitute and last time they came after us from afghanistan, could be afghanistan again, could be syria, could be 25 other places. So this is an ongoing process. Essentially, he wants to opt out again in this misguided idea that we can be safe here at home. And i think we are going to pay the price for this for basically years to come. This has now become a truly consequential presidency, but not in the way any of us want to see. John highlymeilm hayheilmann remind myself that everybody is doing their best all the time, and they have been. But could this be a turning point in their relationship with trump . Losing mattis is losing a the significant dose of sanity in the white house. Could this be an inflexion point with the republicans as it pertain toes th pertains to this president . It could be. And i think its one in a cascading series of flexion points. When the history of all this is written, you will start with the blue wave that happened in november that made clear that the president s political strength was much overstated and that the cost of sticking with donald trump are higher than people thought in that for a lot of Senate Republicans who had looked at the first two years and made certain calculations about what the price would be to part with trump, they now recognize that the calculus is changing and that there is less cost to leaving him, parting ways with him than there is to sticking with him. And then you have these other sequential things happening. The Mueller Investigation may be coming to a climax and that trump is vulnerable on multiple fronts along with his family. Now you have this resignation historic in the way that joe suggested that i think for a lot of republicans who in the senate who looked at mattis as the guardrail, as the i hate the phrase adult in the room. Im not going the use it. Because i think it the diminishes others by not calling them adults it makes them seem as though they shouldnt be responsible for their actions. But certainly a mature guiding force. Theres a lot of americans now who are scared at what theyre seeing. Phrase you used at the top, mika, when you said unraveling, i think that is a sense that a lot of people have right now about the presidency and even people who would like to see who think it would be best for the country if donald trump not be president , but not reach the end of his term, i think people are now going to start to get to grips with the notion that the unraveling of the presidency is an ugly thing. Its a dangerous and destabilizing thing on the global stage and other places. We are starting to see it right now and people are going to have to brace themselves because this is just the start of the destabilization and the ugliness. Last night, the majority leader senator Mitch Mcconnell who has been very careful to not criticize donald trump issued a statement with a direct message to the president that echoed mattiss call to support our allies. Mitch wrote this. Quote, i believe its essential that the United States maintain and strengthen the post world war ii ally yapians that have b carefully built by leaders in both parties. We must also maintain a cleareyed understanding of our friends and foes and russia are among the latter. So i was sorry to learn that secretary mattis, who shares those clear principals, will soon part the administration. But i am particularly distressed that he is resigning due to his sharp differences with the president on these and other key aspects of americas global leadership. It is regrettable that the president must now choose a new secretary of defense. But i urge him to select a leader who shares secretary mattiss understanding of these vital principles and his total commitment to Americas Servicemembers. John, its almost as if republicans if awakened from a long dream, sort of a while you were sleeping dream and understood yesterday that donald trump actually his Foreign Policy at least is bad for americas longterm national interests. I think mcconnells statement is fascinating. What mattis state in his statement is trump has a mature, fully formed Foreign Policy opinion with which he disagrees and that he can no longer count nance that is contrary to mattis understanding. Calling on trump to hire another mattis who does not share trumps views seems to me to be a fools errand. Trump has decided for whatever reason to take charge of his Foreign Policy, not to listen to his experts and to fulfill his Campaign Promises no matter what. So i dont know whether you know, it might be better for trump and for america to have a secretary of defense who will flesh this out to the degree that trump needs. Because this is what we have. This is what we are going to have. And mattis but john, you made a fascinating if fascinating insight that Mitch Mcconnell letter. You have james mattis saying, mr. President , i disagree with you. I have to leave. I disagree with your policies. And then you have the majority leader saying, and now, mr. President , i expect you to select another secretary of defense who disagrees with your Foreign Policy. Right. And last week, if james mattis goes, who is coming in . I think the general consensus is senator the if Lindsey Graham would be the next secretary of defense. Its one of the things hes been angling for. I dont see how he can, after the mattis letter, how exactly and what he said yesterday about the syrian withdraw, i dont see how he can be the secretary of defense in any way, shape or form. I mean, he has a direct contradictory Foreign Policy view from the president of the United States. And thats where we stand. I disagree with you. Everybody here seems to disagree with it. It doesnt matter whether we disagree with it. He was elected and i think the fascinating thing you pointed to the weakness question. Whats so striking is that the reporting suggested that he decided to pull out of syria because he had a phone call with president erdogan with turkey who said we are going after the syrian kurds. You americans better get out of the way. And the president of the United States, rather than saying dont you tell me to get out of the way, we will stop you, we are there and we will stop you from harassing and killing our allies, the syrian kurds, decided to pull our troops out. That yeah. Think about that for a minute. That is an astounding piece of weakness. Again, to think about look at helsinki, how weak he was, how he shamed himself and he shamed americans in helsinki. Look at this phone call where hes being bossed around by the leader of turkey . If and afghanistan. Look at afghanistan. Lindsey graham cant run a dod where you have a president that is also retreating from afghanistan. The after all that he and john mccain said about Barack Obamas leadership and Barack Obamas retreat across the globe. What donald trump is doing is actually. Compounding any problems that Lindsey Graham or john mccain may have had with Barack Obamas leadership and more to the point, to the world, at least, there are a lot of ambassadors and foreign leaders that say that donald trump looks like a coward, that he looks feckless, that he looks weak. So the job of a lot of us here, not me, is to look at the very consequential geostrategic consequences of his actions. But i think donald trump is very basic here. And one possible piece of analysis in terms of what happened, i want to go to susan dell perce dellpercio. Its trumps pattern. He is constantly looking to deflect. We have multiple, multiple investigations creeping around this white house. What weve seen in the past is what hes done is something damaging or striking or staggering or shocking to deflect. Look at these investigations. And by the way, mika, as youre looking at those investigations, the one he fears the most into the Trump Organization from new york state because there is no pardoning power there. That was the trigger to all of this. That is what he fears the most, that the Trump Organization, now under investigation, can bring out indictments of himself and his children, indictments that he has no power to pardon. So my question to susan is, is that what were seeing . Do you think this is trumps power playing outs, one big massive deflection with a flip decision and then for ambassador burns to follow up, what are the options for those Still Standing inside the white house who think this is wrong . Susan. Mika, youre absolutely correct. Donald trump only works in distraction mode. He only knows how to pivot away from what his concern is and try and make noise somewhere else. How else do you put up a green acre parity thing that he did yesterday . Its absurd. But i want to go back to general mattis and his resignation for a moment. What i took away from that is general mattis was willing to disagree with the president , but he wasnt willing to compromise himself or his ethics because of the president s policies. And that is a big inches did. And that is the the cant theme with donald trump and with people leaving the administration or those who dont want to go into this administration. They know hes unethical and they cant trust him. And joe brings up a good point, i think the president is afraid of losing everything because of his investigation into the Trump Organization. Donald trump is snow n donald trump is not just cornered. Hes a man in a room with no doors. And i surmised months ago that he would start a war potentially as a deflection. Is that something that is in the realm of possibility given what weve seen and what are the options for those Still Standing . Well, i always felt that jim mattis would stand in the way of that kind of wag the dog scenario. I do think this puts a lot of pressure now, personally, on mike pompeo and john bolton and gina haspel. Theyre going to have to speak truth to power. This is an erratic president. Hes done real damage this week. He is on the side of the antidemocratic populous in europe, not on Angela Merkels side. Hes unraveling our immigration and refugee system, so carefully worn worked out over the last half century. Look at what hes done in making the eu a competitor. This is turning years of Foreign Policy on its head. And i think gina haspel and john bolton and mike pompeo need to summon the courage to tell the president we are heading in the wrong direction. Admiral, during the transition, i know a lot of Foreign Policy leaders, a lot of military experts, men and women like you all were of the opinion that a even though donald trump had gotten elected as secretary gates said, we only have one president at a time. General hayden, the same thing. We only have one president at a time. We have to do what we can to ensure that this presidency works. We are now two years in. Donald trumps presidency. What do we do in the remaining two years because, again, we only have one president at a time. How do we either contribute to make this work or how do we how does somebody like you, a leader like you, send a message to our allies across the globe that all you know, all things will pass away and this, too, shall pass and better days are coming . Joe, ill give you three things and let me just pick up on what nick burns said about john bolton, gina haspel and mike pompeo. Id add dan coats and id add, also, all of the professionals, the am babassadors, the militar officers still on active duty. They need to stand and deliver for the nation. Second, congress, i was quite heartened to see Mitch Mcconnell, finally, sort of at least in a statement kind of stand. And lets remember the next secretary of defense has to be confirmed by the senate. So the idea of sending a sicophant into that job is then the role of the free press has been undercut by President Trump dramatically, but not effectively. All of those three things are crucial. One other strategic thought out to close, weve talked a lot about russia and nato and turkey and hezbollah and the middle east. Looming out there is china. China is the strategic competitor here. And the degree to which we undermine that subject, that is not the way we need to go. Thank you both for being on this morning. Still ahead on morning joe, new signs that bob mueller may be less than two months away from wrapping up the russia probe. Were going to recap what we know so far and the Big Questions the special counsel may still have left to answer. As we mentioned at the top of the show, were less than 18 hours away from a Government Shutdown. Seemingly thanks in part to rush limbaugh. Well explain that and tell you the latest and where the showdown stands right now. Youre watching morning joe. Showdown stands right now. Youre watching morning joe. Things happen. And sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. 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Energy lives here. You know, john, there are a time of people that dont john heilmann, there are a lot of people that i dont think its a coincidence that we have seen turkey and erdogan in the news so much and he becomes the reason why donald trump is moving troops out of syria and turning syria over to assad, to Vladimir Putin, to iran and isis. You, of course, tt khashoggi murder and suddenly erdogan decides hes going the play human rights activist for journalists, the man who has jailed more journalists than anybody on the planet. You have mueller going into court with general flynn who, in effect, could have been charged in a conspiracy, perhaps, some people have said for kidnapping a turkish dissident and getting him out of pennsylvania and sending him back to be tortured in turkey. And a couple of days after, you have two other of flynns associates arrested and charged in this turkish situation. Suddenly turkey becomes a central player in donald trump making the biggest strategic misstep in recent memory. Whats going on there . Yeah. Turn a lot of fence posts, doesnt get there by himself. Look, i think theres a question, you have raised the question of erdogan and the question becomes to what you know, we all talk about russia. What does Vladimir Putin have on donald trump . I think the question we have to now ask ourselves is what does president erdogan have on donald trump. Now you have the judge using the word traitor with respect to flynn in turkey and wanting to have more of the documentation of what happened in this period during the transition, wanting to have more of those 302s released so we can understand what flynn was hiding, why he was lying, his relationship to erdogan, his relationship to turkey. All of those things are now happening this week in this courtroom where donald trump was cut loose, Michael Cohen has trashed everyone who has turned against him and has been a cooperating witness or a rat as we call him continuing to cozy up to mike flynn. I dont know how all these pieces come together, but they suggest that as much as russia is central to whats going on with the Mueller Probe and can as much as russia may have leverage over donald trump, they may not be the only country with trump and there may be a real important story here not only in terms of what happened in that time frame, but as its now currently playing out in realtime on the global if stage that there are more Foreign Countries that have leverage over donald trump perhaps than we thought and turkey may be very much at the center of this and Michael Flynn may hold the key to it. Can i add something here . Go ahead. So there was one weird data point. In 2017, outside the Turkish Embassy in washington, there was a protest, democracy protesters, and Turkish Embassy goons beat up protesters on the streets of washington. Like 20 people were beaten up by turkish goons out of the embassy and nothing happened. We didnt protest. We didnt complain. We being the Trump Administration . Right. The United States launched no formal protests about this unbelievably agreenegregious ac. It wasnt even inside the gates of the embassy. They were on the streets of d. C. And that never has been properly examined. And it ties into this whole weird question of, you know, turkey is the sick man of europe. Were not supposed to be kowtowing to turkey. And here we have donald trump kowtowing to turkey, backing down from a threat from turkey. A u. S. President , his knees buckling because the leader of turkey, who by the way has trouble maintaining power himself inside of turkey, delivers a threat the same week that turkey is in the news because Michael Flynn is called a traitor by a judge. Again, as john points out, not as it relates to russia, but as it relates to turkey and suggests that we need to know more about whats going on with turkey. You have a several other arrests with flynn associates. And convictions related to turkey. And then suddenly donald trump takes one phone call from turkey and he undermines one of the most effective u. S. Foreign policy decisions in recent memory. I would say two things, joe. Turkey itself, even though its formally an ally, in real life, it is anything but a partner of the United States. We ought to treat turkey can at best as a semi hostile country. We ought to have zero illusions about mr. Erdogans turkey. The real test is yet to come. Sitting in pennsylvania is Fatullah Gulan who the turks believe organized a coup. If the United States ever is willing to cough up mr. G aulan that will tell us a lot. So that, to me, is more than anything else the test case. Again, i dont know what might be going on behind the scenes. Its always hard to know motives. But that will be the test of whatever is going on between the United States and turkey. Coming up, the acting attorney general has decided not to recuse himself in the russia probe. But the story of how we got to that point is quite complicated. Well explain it, next. Ite comp. Well explain it, next what a year. Your Home Improvement todo list still isnt todone. But hey, at least you still have time to get the ford vehicle youve always wanted. Just get to the final days of our holiday sales event. See you sometime between now and january 2nd. So you can end your year on a high note. Ford. Built for the holidays. Its time to get our best offers of the season. Discover. O. I like your card, but im absolutely not paying an annual fee. Discover has no annual fees. Really . Yeah. We just dont believe in them. Oh nice. You would not believe how long ive been rehearsing that. No annual fee on any card. Only from discover. The acting attorney general has decided not to recuse himself in the russia probe, but how we got to that point is far from straightforward. Joining us now, nbc news intelligence and National Security reporter ken delaney and cofounder and ceo of Axios Jim Vandehei joins us. How do we get to this point . What is the arc of the pathway to this point with whitacre . So whitakre who was a u. S. Attorney in the Bush Administration and a tight end on the Football Team and Jeff Sessions chief of staff got to this point after becoming after he was au commentator on cnn and he criticized the Mueller Investigation. He said at one point there was no collusion. He questioned the aspects of how robert mule weller was doing hi job. Stop right there. Wouldnt that be a reason for recusal . Not necessarily. We now have a letter from the Justice Department to the leaders of congress laying all this out. The appearance of impropriety created by whitacres many statements to the media did not trigger a legal requirement for recusal, nor did it trigger a requirement that he gets formal ethics advice. But he got informal advice from a top official at the Justice Department and that person said, look, this is a close call and if i were you, i would recuse. So he was recommending that Matthew Whitaker recuse. But he relied on a counsel of a group of advisers that he convened and he is not accepting the advice of the senior ethics official at the Justice Department. That means that Matthew Whitaker could end up being the person who decides what to do with the Mueller Report if, in fact, our reporting is correct that the Mueller Report lands in mid february, mika. Jim, john, i want to ask you this question. Given the role that whitaker plays would be very different and how we see it would look a lot irchbt did different if repe still in control of the house of representatives. Given that that is the case, obviously, whitaker could have an influential role. But is it not the case that one way or the other what happens to bob muellers investigation is going to become public . The Justice Department makes a lot of those decisions about what becomes public and when. Youre talking about with democrats in control of the house, if they go down the impeachment route, theyre going to get a lot of it put on the Public Record. This is consequential in the shortterm. If they want to curtail the investigation, they could. I think the anticipation is the report will come sometime next year. Rudy jewel legi Rudy Giuliani said he thinks the trump part of the investigation is almost over, but theres many other pieces they dont think are resolved. So its possible youll see other parts of this report. But i think the game changes. As crazy as this day, as crazy as this month has been, once democrats have that subpoena power, thats when trump gets nervous. Theres a working assumption internally that regardless of what democrats say, he will one day be impeached over the course of the next 18 months. One of the reasons he spent so much time worrying about the base is he knows he needs 34 republican senators to stick with him through thick or thin. Hence his obsession with delivering on all of his Campaign Promises. Hence his reacting to what drudge does. Ken, Susan Delpercio here. What about this obscure law now that the democrats may be using to get possibly get Donald Trumps taxes . They havent been able to do it yet. We know mueller may have him. But how are they going to go about getting them . Yeah, right. This is part of our reporting with Pete Williams last night. We believe Robert Mueller has Donald Trumps tax returns. Every legal expert i talked to say thats white collar investigations 101. You get the tax returns, you get the report. Now that House Democrats are taking charge, theres an obscure law that will allow the house ways and means chairman to demand the tax returns from treasury secretary mnuchin. And its not a subpoena. So richard neal has said hes going to request those returns and he expects he could make them public bay simple vote of the committee in closed session. Here is the wrinkle. He also expects those returns wont be turned over without a fight, donald trump may sue. If they do make those returns public, a lot of people will say that the as acceptable and others will see that as government overstepping. Its never been used to obtain and release an individuals tax returns, but weve never had a president in modern history who has not released tax returns with such blatant conflicts of interest. Ken, thank you so much. Jim vandehei, thank you, as well. Coming up, we still need to talk about the most immediate issue facing the country, the looming Government Shutdown. After the president throws a wrench in lawmakers plans. Casey hunt joins us ahead with her latest reporting. This holiday season, families near you need your help. Visit redcross. Org now to donate. Our final moments with john. First, if et we could put up the graphic of all the investigations that closing in around the white house and the president. You have the trump foundation, which has been shut down in the the middle of an investigation, a misuse of funds, abuse of power and basically acting like a checkbook of the trump campaign, the trump transition is all the money there. The Trump Administration, the Trump Organization and the president himself looking at collusion with russia. And you have all these people who have been indicted and speaking to the mueller team. And flooMichael Flynn being sen back to talk even more. I again. Point him to the pattern o of this president and you see it every time. Every time something comes closer to him or upsets him, this is a deflection. Is it possible to make the connection that et he would actually upset the world order to deflect from things that make him angry . I suppose so. I think that the Government Shutdown is more important factor here than the looming investigations, which is to say he chose to change the subject tr the fact that he had openly said if the oval office that et he would happily take responsibility for the Government Shutdown by sort of trying to direct everybodys attention to syria and an old Campaign Promise he was claiming to fulfill. I think thats the weirdness offed to. That and mexico wont be paying for that wall. Thank you very much. Coming up, despite what the president says, his defense secretary is not retiring. He quit. Because of donald trump. Je johnson joins us to talk about that ahead on morning joe. When the president told shChuck Schumer he would take credit if the government shuts down, hes now blame iing the democrats. Morning joe is coming right back. Oe is coming right back the greatest wish of all is one that brings us together. The final days of wish list are here. Sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first months payment. Only at your lincoln dealer. Theres no excuse for what they did to you. Its a hate crime. From being a hero. Steve carell. I created a world where i could be whoever i want to be. Hell yeah. And just like you, the further into winter we go, the heavier i get. And while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. [laughter] whoo. [crash] and your cutrate insurance might not pay for this. So get allstate, you could save money and be better protected from mayhem like me. Mayhem is everywhere. So get an allstate agent. Are you in good hands . 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New john deere equipment for all and to all a good night. See your john deere dealer today to discover more great deals and special financing offers. New year, new deere. I will shut down the government. I am proud to shut down the government for Border Security. Because the people of this country dont want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So i will take will be the one to shut it down. Im not going to blame it for you. Last week President Trump said he would proudly claim responsibility for a Government Shutdown. It will surprise no one that just this morning hes now placing the blame on democrats with mere hours until the lights go out. The president just tweeted senator Mitch Mcconnell should fight for the border wall and Border Security as hard as he fought for anything. He will need democrat vote, but as shown in the house, good things happen. If enough democrats dont vote it will be a democrat shutdown. House republicans were great yesterday and he continues. The democrats are trying to belittle the concept of a wall calling it old fashioned. The fact is there is nothing elses that will work and that he has been true for thousands of years. Its like the wheel. Theres nothing better. I know tech better than anyone and technology. He doesnt. Theres technology that you could put on the border. Its a virtual wall. Its already used in come be the. And if somebody approaches it, it detects them. It will confuse them. It will disorient them and it will push them away from that area. Donald trump is actually going back a couple of thousand years. The chinese thought this was a great idea. The great wall of china. A tourist attraction. Perhaps it was a great idea then. Moving forward. But he says he knows war and isis better than the generals. He says he Knows Technology better than anybody. We are learning that he actually is a know nothing. The wheels are coming off the bus. He knows absolutely nothing and the wheels are coming off. All hes trying to do is desperately hang on because he believes that he and members of his family are in serious legal jeopardy now. They just cant do anything to stop the wheels of justice from turning. Welcome back morning joe. Its friday, december 21st. We have National Affairs analyst for nbc news john heilemann. Republican strategist susan del pierce owe, president of the council on Foreign Relations richard haus, and capitol hill correspondent casey hunt. Also with us professor of International Politics at the Fletcher School of law and diplomacy at Tufts University daniel dressner. Author of the pook the death of expertise, tom nichols. And bill crystal was the editor at large of the weekly standard. Looking for a jb now. Yeah, taking it easy. Showing up here on morning joe. Just drifting around. Were glad to have you. A life of leisure. Not at all. Hard a the this point. John heilemann, you want to get into donald trump distractions. I want us to set up this week before syria, before afghanistan, before mattis and explain to me, if you will, just how serious the legal problems facing donald trump and his children are, especially as the new York State Attorney general launches full into an vgs of the Trump Organization. That graphic is pretty good. That we have up here right now. Trump foundation, trump transition, inaugust asian ration and administration. Like everything thats got trumps name on it is is now being investigated by one investigatory body or another. Theres nothing donald trump has touched or current ly attached o thats not being looked into by some Law Enforcement body or some prosecutor. Someone who has subpoena power. I think its bad and i do think that its just now as one of the reasons the end of this week is so unsettling is the sense of the wheels coming off the wagon. Some think they have been off for a long time and donald trump knows that the wheel is a pretty important piece of technology. So if youre losing your wheels, youre losing a lot of your stability. Were hearing the wheels are falling off this administration. Then finish the tweet by going, there were wheels . But for now to quote the bible because us know youre a huge would say one fan. We only see through a glass darkly. So were locking through the glass darkly. Et we dont know everything out that mueller knows is out there and certainly nobody knows more than donald trump and his children right now. It gets a lot worse. It does. Everybody has said for a long time that mueller is like an iceberg and were only seeing the tip of it. Were seeing more every day. You look at the inaugural investigation. No one had any idea. And its a very ugly situation in which theres suggestions that millions of dollars that were collected, tens of millions of dollars collected kind of just went missing for the ina inauguration. There are a lot of very significant people in Donald Trumps orbit who are involved. That story is on going now any one of these investigations now looks was the kids is there a concern for them . I believe they are intimately involved in the inauguration. In this reporting we have seen, theres a suggestion that all the trump children had rubbed up against that operation one way or the other. So i just think that when you think at what donald trump is concerned about, hes obviously concerned about himself. Hes concerned about the future of his presidency and his legal jeopardy. But hes also been concerned about his children. And i think on all of these fronts, you keep pointing out the state is super important because the fact that the pardon does not extend to the state investigation. I think there are a the lot of investigatory bodies that are looking closely at Donald Trumps family and trying to figure out they are locking at it in way that suggest all of them have jeopardy that is serious and significant criminal jeopardy and that that has to be part of whats feeding trumps sense of panic. Theres no other way to describe it than panic out of the white house. And again, we hear an awful lot about pardons, but you look at the new york state investigations and president s pardon power doesnt extnd to states. We could talk about flynn and what happened in pennsylvania and the conspiracy, and drag him back to turkey against his will. If Michael Flynn were pardoned with federal charges, there could be pennsylvania charges that could land him in jail for a consider amount of time. Theres no way o out for this president. Its looking more and more obvious that there are no way out for members of trufrs family if they have committed crimes. Or for members of Donald Trumps cabinet, which of course, is causing panic. Tom nichols, i want to explain to everybody before i quote you here that you speak neither for the dod, for james mattis, or for surviving members of led zeppelin when i read this quote. You said yesterday the government of the the United States is now a total free fall the situation was orderly and professional compared to this circus. Explain. In 1974 you had a presidency that was failing, melting down. The president himself, president nixon was under immense stress. But you had him surrounded by people that were highly competent. They were all the adults in the room to overuse that phrase. Now this is complete free fall. When you have a major troop announcement like the president issued with syria, and you have the white house and the dod referring back to each other to try to answer questions because nobody knows what the hell anyone is doing, thats just a complete meltdown of the chief of staffs position, the Foreign Policy shop, thats a white house where nobody knows whats going on. During the waning days of watergate, we actually had a major crisis with the soviet union that was handled by. Henry kissinger, the chairman of the joint chiefs. If we. Some kind of major crisis now, ien dont know who steps in since the president could et blow up any kind of ongoing negotiation or situation at will with the tweet. So i think this is really dangerous territory. And dangerous territory. Daniel, you commented last night that one of the president s challenges has been and he just since the midterms especially hasnt been able to cope with it, everywhere he turns in this democracy he faces institutional constraints. And its something that this man completely ignorant of government, completely ignorant of the constitution, ignorant of American History never understood. Thats correct. I think it actually is one of the explanations if r why he potentially sort of forced mattis out. Think this week alone. Even just two days ago where President Trump has been trying to jawbone the fed to not raise Interest Rates and discovered they are not going to listen to him on this. Trumps pressure probably forced their hand in terms of requiring them to raise Interest Rates at least a lult bit to show their independence. The degree to which trump can control congress is not cheer. No matter what tweets he said, he doesnt have the votes in the senate. And hes being hemmed in by. The courts. Emmit sullivan from has twice hammered but expose iing the li that Michael Flynn was entramped. And second by putting a constraint on an. Immigration order that the attorney general implemented when he was back in june. So in some way shs its not surprising hes doing what hes doing on Foreign Policy because thats one of the few areas whereas command ererinchief h can can do those things. But it forces subordinates that the rest of america trusts to leave. So you have the chaos that tom nichols talked about. And its only going to get worse. Ien cant imagine what the markets are going to do today, but they are not goirng to be happy about this news. It also the president may feel like free to do what he. Wants in Foreign Policy, but the more he makes moves like he did yesterday, the more support he loses in the United States senate, the less power he has to move anything forward. And the less allies that he will have if the Mueller Report has an impeachment and the republicans in the senate who say this is not sustainable. We cant allow this to continue anymore. So he makes these moves. Like every move he seems to make of late, they are short sided, hes day trading, and what hes trading in the long run is support from gop senators. Part of that i wanted to fold into my question to richard haus. He has been able to make these moves. So far hes proven he can do whatever he wants. And its now prompted this latest move. The resignation of the defense secretary. But so far as i asked Foreign Policy experts on the show this morning, what can people inside do right now . What can pompeo do . What can those second, third, fourth tier folks at the state department do . The answers i have received is they can say, mr. President , you need to rethink this. Mr. President , you have gone too far. That does nothing. So what are the options for people in the administration who feel this president is running the country amok. What are the actions they can take in their jobs inside the white house and then if theres nothing, how much can the senate do and will they . Is this the Inflection Point . The sad truth is under our political system given the constitution, when it comes to Foreign Policy, the president has the initiative. He has enormous discretion. So much was done by previous president s without congress. He can take the United States out of the paris climate agreement. He took the United States out of the tpp trade agreement. Hes taken u. S. Forces out of syria. He can reduce u. S. Forces in afghanistan. He can cut u. S. Forces in south korea. He doesnt have to come to taiwan if something happens this. He has enormous discretion. What can people do to prevent it . Very little. Thats the sad truth. They have the mattis option, if you will. The Nuclear Option of resignation and public criticism. But this president has tremendous discretion. Joe makes a good point. The only thing that may be pushing back is hes concerned that if he acts totally outrageously in Foreign Policy it would weaken his Political Base against what is to come. In the narrow sense in Foreign Policy, its ironic for people like me because for years we all argued for president ial primacy. We thought congress would be the body that would keep the United States from doing the right thing, that congress would introduces uncertainty. What none of us planned for was a commanderinchief who would be et radical and he would be the one so erratic to raise questions about this countrys role in the world. Its so fundamental that james mattis retired and the pentagon spokesman said mattis delivered his decision to resign at the end of february by handing the president a letter yesterday afternoon. It reads this. While the u. S. Remaybes the indispensable nation in the free world, we cannot protect our interests or serve that role effectively without maintaining strong alliances and showing respect to those allies. Like you i have said from the beginning, the armed forces of the United States should not be the policeman of the worltd. Instead, we must use all the tools of American Power to provide for the common defense. Including providing effective leadership to our alliances. Natos 29 democracies demonstrated that strength in their commitment to fighting alongside us following the 9 11 attack on america. The defeat u. S. S i coalition is is further proof. Similarly, i believe we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those countries w whose Strategic Interests are increasingly in tension with ours. Because you have the right to have a secretary of defrs whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, i believe it is right for me to step down from my position. And Mitch Mcconnell actually reacted to that letter, bill. He reacted with a letter to the president of the United States saying he was deeply disturbed that james mattis was retiring, resigning, disturbed why he was resigning and told donald trump that he strongly recommend ed that mattis replacement be somebody who shares mattis views. He said i believe its essential that the United States maintains and strengthens the post world war ii alliances that have been carefully built by leaders in both parties. Its almost as if that the Republican Party have awakened. Yeah, is it too late though . I dont think its necessarily too late, but the mattis resignation is such a big deal. I spoke with a retired general a couple days ago who is close to mattis and discreet, but has been in touch with mattis. He said hes going to hang in there. He thinks its important for the country and thinks hes there, hes doing good. He will take a lot of blows and hang this there to prevent worse things from happening. For me the resignation is so important because its not simply that hes discussed it about the syria decision or disappointed by it or even apalled by it. This means that mattis thought he could not stop a lot of other bad decisions from happening down the road. In afghanistan thats already going to happen. But all kinds of other places. Mattis saw what was coming and thought i cant make a difference anymore. Where he has swallowed an awful will the. Hes told people hes going to stay for four years. He told friends of mine that as recently as this month. The fact that mattis felt he couldnt do any good anymore is. Louzing him is bad, but. The fact that he felt he couldnt stay and do any good is even worse. Casey hunt, losing mattis is bad enough. The way he resigned makes it so much worse. There hasnt been that sort of resignation and protest from somebody that high up in over four decades. But there it is. Its laid out there. And suddenly, youre seeing real concerns being voiced for the first time on capitol hill by. Certain republicans. Mitch mcconnell delivers the strongest statement as we heard him deliver against donald trump in the past two years. Lindsey graham also being we could go down the list. Jeff flake, bob corker, but also ben sass and other republicans shocked by the syria decision. Shocked by the afghanistan decision. And shocked that james mattis was allowed to resign. Jim mattis wept right up to the line of saying that this president is aiding and abetting our enemieenemies, which is remarkable. In that Mitch Mcconnell statement, that really is the one that i want to focus on. Mitch mcconnell repeated the points that jim mattis made in that letter and went on to say that he was distressed about this and that he hoped and insisted that the nominate somebody to be defense secretary in mattiss mold. Thats a clear statement to the president that you better pick a grown up or good luck getting them through this United States senate. And why is this so important . Mitch mcconnell has defended this president at every available turn. When you ask him about a trump decision or a tweet or something that seems outside the norm, he will typically say, im sorry, i dont have anything to say about that. Or hell say, well, i dont like the tweets, but we have legislation to get done here. And obviously, the president has signed a lot of the things that Mitch Mcconnell has sent his way. But this was a bridge too far and i think this is a very, very strong signal from the majority leader that if this president is not careful, things could really change dramatically for him. Now we will see if Mitch Mcconnell follows through with action. Obviously, theres not really an historical precedent for this, so perhaps he will step back from this next. I just think that we cannot overstate the significance of what Mitch Mcconnell said here. And dont forget it comes in the context on tuesday saying he was sure we werent going to shutdown over thanksgiving. So the white house embarrassed him yesterday when the president decided that no, he want ed to throw the government into further chaos and not sign that shortterm, tension bill right before christmas. So thats a factor thats at play here too. Im sure it is. Also Mitch Mcconnell im sure hes not pleased that tweets by ann coulter and monologues by lush limbaugh are more persuasive than what Mitch Mcconnell and other members of the senate and other republicans and conservatives in the house are telling him. Dan and tom nichols, lets follow up on what casey said. The most Extraordinary Part of the letter to the president was when he brought up china and russia and said, mr. President , these are not our friends. These are our competitors. These are our rivals. And there was a suggestion that donald trump did not understand that russia was behaving like an enemy. Dan, lets start with you. How extraordinary was that . The entire letter is extraordinary. I wonder whether donald trump actually read it before he tweeted out the fact that mattis was resigning or if he read it comprehended what he was doing to him when he wrote the letter. But this shouldnt be all that surprising. What mattis said in the letter was consistent with what was put out last year in the National Security strategy, which was in part mattis was an architect of that. When donald trump introduced that National Security strategy, which talked about russia and china as sort of great power rivals, that we should be concerned about them. In his remarks introducing them donald trump undercut that message. This puts a period on the notion that anyone is running Foreign Policy in this executive branch except for donald trump. And in some ways, thats the most damaging thing about whats been done here this week is the degree to which the Trump Administration has undercut commitments elsewhere and also undercut his subordinates. If youre any other country in the world, why would you want to talk to anyone other than donald trump because you cant trust what anyone else says because they might be gone tomorrow or might not reflect the whims of the president. Tom, again, how extraordinary that a retiring secretary of defense has to explain to the commanderinchief that russia is a geopolitical rival. Theres two things that i think are really stunning here. One is, and this goes back to a point meika made earlier this morning. One is that both the mattis and the mcconnell reactions are basically saying its not that we disagree with your Foreign Policy. Its that you dont have a Foreign Policy. You dont understand Foreign Policy. That washington almost seems to be reacting to the president with a complete understanding that what the president is doing is lashing out and pushing buttons and trying to change the news cycle rather than expressing some kind of world view. Thats where a lot of this frustration comes in. Because its not really a view of Foreign Policy that you can understand. Its whatever the president is angry about at any moment anywhere else in the news cycle. The other thing that i think is really interesting about this and particularly with the mcconnell reaction is republicans now have no top cover at all. For two years, mattis has been their kind of backstop to say, if you criticized President Trump, republicans and the enablers and the media would say mattis, now they cant argue with that. Mattis has laid this out. I dont know what they are going to say now. John heilemann, for eight years we listened to conservative politicians, conservatives in the house, conservatives in the senate, conservatives on talk radio, socalled conservatives howling about barack obama retreat iing from the world. Leading from behind. Here you have donald trump actually just pulling up the stakes in afghanistan, pulling up the stakes in syria, coming home and leaving the middle east it seems part ofs of it to russia, iran and isis. What hypocrisy if conservatives dont in a singular voice speak out today in condemnation of donald trump . The president seems to be standing down from the role of American Leadership around the world. We have seen it rhetorically on his part throughout the first two years of the the administration. Now we seem to be seeing actions that match the rhetoric of american retreat. And i want to ask bill crystal this question. It seemed to me a little bit off. The way i read the mattis letter, bill, was not that mattis was saying donald trump doesnt have a Foreign Policy. I think hes saying donald trump has a Foreign Policy. Its a Foreign Policy that cozies up to authoritarians and disregards our allies, and that is a Foreign Policy with which i have profound disagreements. Thats why i have to leave. Not that he thinks just trump is freelancing, but trump has a world view. Trump adopted the America First slogan from 1940 and we all thought, well, its just talk. For two years its been an awful lot of America First talk but the institutions and cabinet secretaries constrained him to some degree. This is why this is an important moment. Were moving from America First talk to America First action. America fest was about coddling dictators. They are sympathetic to the fascists in europe and abandoning allies. So i do think its the kind of coherence to what trump is doing. And i think the resignation of mattis both the actual Mitch Mcconnell can appoint someone like mattis, but hes been there for two years. Kelly is going. Mattis is going. Cohen is gone. Mcmaster is gone. The generals are going. Generally serious people are going. Ufs struck by this last night. Whitaker is another scandal. Hes acting attorney general of the United States and jim mattis is leaving as defense secretary. That says it all for me. It really does. And mika, seven years ago in december, december of 2011, donald trump tweeted this because, as we know, theres always a tweet. Iraq in political turmoil one day after we leave, i told you so. Of course, we know the political vacuum that was created there. Led to the rise of isis. Which barack obama and his generals and admirals got to plan to push back isis. Donald trump continued that. But even Donald Trumps own state Department Last week was saying isis is not defeated. We have to finish the job. Donald trumps pulling up stakes. He makes a phone call. Speaks to erdogan and he decides its time to bring the troops home so he can clear out of the region so erdogan can slaughter our natural allies. None of it makes sense. Unless, of course, its connected to other events from earlier this week inside a federal courthouse in northern virginia. Its hard not to grattled. Thank you very much. Still ahead on morning joe, well talk to former Homeland Security secretary jeh jo johnson, his successor was on capitol hill yesterday. Her testimony brought to mind a movie we find ourselves referencing a lot. From congress i would ask for law. We need wall. I love carpet. I love desk. Are you just looking at things in the office and saying that you love them . I love that. I would ask for wall. We need wall. I would ask for wall. We need wall expedia introduces add on advantage, a new way to save on travel. Now when you book a flight you unlock discounts on select hotels that you can use up until your trip starts. 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And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. Theres a debate over funding Border Security and the wall. Also called so that i give them a little out steel slats. We dont use the word wall necessarily, but it has to be Something Special to do the job. Steel slats. I have made my position very clear. Any measure that funds the government must include Border Security. It has to. Its where we are right now. As we count down to christmas, there are people wondering if theres going to be a shutdown and if they are going to have work and income. Where do we stand and do the events of the past 24 hours move republicans in any way to help at least fend off the potential shutdown crisis . Thousands would go without paychecks through christmas if this happens. It could potentially be a long one if we do get there. The president already tweeting about this fwen this morning. Shut down today if democrats dont vote for board. Er security. So how did we get here . Everyone was ready to leaf town yesterday morning, but. The day fell apart quickly after republicans met. There was no clear signal from the president he was going to sign the continuing resolution that the senate had passed. And then we found out that the Freedom Caucus had been on o the phone telling him he needs to be seen fighting. He cant cave. Then there was an epic meltdown on capitol hill and republicans did prove they had the votes to pass 5 billion in border wall funding. That was a big question mark. So the senate is going to come back in this afternoon and the question is where do we go from here. Et with know they are not going to pass 5 billion for the border wall. Its not going to happen. So what can. Happen . There have been some negotiations back and forth perhaps going. Up to a 1. 6 billion number. Dont forget democrats have voted time and time again for Border Security measures. Its hard to find republicans on the hill who think build. Ing this big wall is the way to solve the problem. Theres nobody b that thinks that. And democrats have really been. Willing all the way along to say, we want to get some concessions on immigration policy, were more than happy to secure the border, but theres no incentive for Chuck Schumer and nancy pelosi to give into the president here. So theres going to be a lot of twists and turns through the afternoon. But at the end of the day, this is about the president. Does he want to punish hundreds and thousands of people or does he not . Yep, well be watching this throughout the day and specifically your coverage. Thank you. Still ahead, senator Lindsey Graham warns the president that withdrawing troops from afghanistan could pave a way to a second 9 11. Well talk about afghanistan, syria and the resignation of james mattis with former Homeland Security secretary jeh jo johnson. Morning joe is coming right back. T back if were gonna steal christmas, were gonna need the element of surprise. Go team. [ snow crunching ] [ load crunching ] [ whispers ] this is the loudest snow ever. [narrator] meet sharks newest robot vacuum. It powerfully cleans from floors to carpets, even pet hair, with ease, and now for cleaning surfaces above the floor, it comes with a built in shark handheld. One dock, two sharks. The shark ion robot cleaning system. This holiday season, families near you need your help. Visit redcross. Org now to donate. Breathe freely fast, with vicks sinex. My congestions gone. I can breathe again ahhhh i can breathe again ughh. Vicks sinex, breathe on joining us now we have the former secretary of Homeland Security under president obama jeh johnson. Also with us representative from california now the director, president and ceo of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for psychological alreadies jane harmon. It and in washington former executive director of the graham Talent Commission dr. Evelyn farkus. Secretary johnson, we heard secretary nielsen repeating we need wall in response to the discussions that she was having on capitol hill. It seems that experts have concluded that 21st Century Technology would be a lot more effective than steel slats. From your experience, what has worked best from stopping illegal immigration . First, thanks for having me on. I have to say this about the Government Shutdown. We talk about a shutdown frequently like a political football, but it has consequences for hundreds of thousands of people who may not get a paycheck, uncolluding the tsa officers who screen for Aviation Security and will be protecting members of congress as they go home for the holidays. So the experts include the republicancontrolled senate. In fact, the Senate Passed an appropriations bill for dhs that includes 1. 6 billion for Border Security, which is is not uncollude a wall. It includes more fences, more surveillance. Ask any expert and they will tail light you what we need on the southern border is is more surveillance, more roads, more boats, more planes, possibly more Border Patrol agents, but very few of them mention a wall. We actually have is a wall already in places where it makes sense to have a wall. You can build a 10foot wall and 10,000foot mountain, but someone will build an 11foot ladder to get over it. We need to invest in the causes thats driving illegal immigration. There was a deal announced this week with the government in mexico, which is a step in the right direction, to invest billions of dollars in address ing the poverty in those countries. As long as those situations exist, were going to be dealing with this problem forever. Just to sort of i want to jump to jane. But secretary johnson, arent Border Agents affected by a shutdown . They are essential government personnel, but during a shutdown they dont get paid. So were asking these people you must go to work. But were not going to tell you when youre going to get paid next. And after the shutdown is over, they retroactively get paid, but you dont know what this is going to happen. People who are furloughed, theres no guaranteed they are paid. They are often paid later on. Jane harmon, talk about this wall that nobody wants or at least some data et shows its pretty unpopular. We had had reverse immigration flow during the obama administration. What policies helped create that atmosphere . We have reverse immigration et flow now from mexico. We have immigration flow from the northern triangle in central america. By the way, in the first year of the Trump Administration, mike pence and john kelly had a summit in miami talking about aids to Central American government to fight corruption, fight the drug trade and stimulating Business Investment there to stop the push factor for these poor people. Will herd is a republican congressman on the border in texas who used to work for the cia. He said the wall is the most expensive, least effective way to handle Border Security. Much better are drones, sensors and the things that jeh was talking about. Let me add one more thing. Im from Border Security. I didnt meet a democrat us served in congress for nine terms who was against Border Security. Who would be against it . Im for sensible Border Security and not just on the southern border. More terrorists have tried to come into the u. S. From the northern border. You served in the cabinet as secretary of Homeland Security. We just had had one of those rare things in washington, which was the resident gnation of a ct member. What was your take on it . Did you have in your mind when you served was there a standard or a criteria where you said if this were to happen, i have to walk . Whats your take on basically seems top driv have driven matt . I said in a speech at the Reagan Library i sleep better at night with jim mattis on the wall. And i didnt sleep very well lastresignation, the issue with resignation, i appreciate why he did what he did, but the issue is you then leave the burden of the office and the Decision Making to someone else who may not be as sensitive as you are and so i think the bar has been to be pretty high before a can be ncabinet member chooses to resign. Because the mission goes on one way or another. The president selected you to do the job and a lot of people were koub counting on jim to stay in office. I believe the reports that he felt he had to stay for the good of the country, but it obviously reached an intolerable point for him where he felt he could no longer effectively serve the president , no longer do the job and i can only imagine having worked there there are thousands of people in the pentagon right now who are very, very depress ed and disappointed. Evelyn, i want to bring you in. You have known secretary mattis for 20 years, worked with him and i think that theres somewhat of a void that hes going to be leaving. Give us a sense of what you know of how that could play out and what exactly he was able to do in there to maintain some sort of order. Yeah, i think heres the thing. Secretary mattis, first and foremost, hes a deeply patriotic man. He felt his mission was basically to defend americas National Security interests and the men and women and the armed forces. I spoke to him when he took the job. He called me to talk about russia. And it was very clear then that he felt that his job was to be sort of the adult in the room. So whats shocking is that in this letter now he has to outline what our Foreign Policy principles are, why alliances are important to this president. You would never have to do that for another president. I think he did what he was suppose d to do while he was in the government, and the reason people on the hill are very nervous right now is is because they know some of the things that happened behind the schooners, some of the things that secretary mattis prevented. I happened to know folks in the room, for example, at the nato summit last july, that secretary mattis, secretary pompeo, foreign leaders, chancellor murkel and the head of nato basically talked the president back from making a crazy statement that would have put us on the path to leaving na so. So, you know, secretary mattis has actually done important work inside government kind of making sure the guardrails were up. I think he just got frightened with these latest decisions that he wasnt going to be able to do that anymore. How do you explain to the public the serious is not stable. And what repercussions that has and why we should care about that. Well, let me say first i serve currently on the defense policy board, 12 people, including Henry Kissinger and madeleine albright, who had advised secretary mattis. And i served on the board for the last three secretary of defense sense i left congress. Its a high none hor and secretary mattis reaches outside for diverse views to make sure hes got it right and there are some really tough issues that the Defense Department is facing, most, many of them having to do with the adjusting to the new forms of war, involving cyber and ai. On syria, what is a destabilizeder isia mean for us . Destabilized syria mean for us . I hope bashar alassad, who used chemical weapons on his people. I thought we were for that surely notice we leave vacuum that iran and russia will occupy. Perhaps together. Lets remember where its located. Its on the border of israel and lebanon, which is digging tunnels into iz israel. Saudi arabia has been weakened given the hor nor of mbs involvement in this gruesome murder. So they will not be able to protect israel by themselves and i see this thing as cascading and creating chaos in the middle east at a time when the u. S. Was playing just the right role, training fighters and standing by our allies and kurds in syria and iraq. I want to ask you a followup on the resignation now mattis is gone. Have you Mitch Mcconnell that comes in, President Trump seems reacted. He is obviously disturbed. He says, you got to have another jim mattis who steps into this job. There has been some debate at this table that suggests some peoples attitude is obviously, we would all prefer to have a jim mattis or jim mattistype figure. Donald trump doesnt want that. Theyve reached the point we reach suggest donald trump and jim mattis concluded that donald trump no longer wants, has use for jim mattis or jim mattislike arguments of the world view so right now, are we better off with maybe with the clarity that would come with donald trump appointing a donald Trump Defense secretary or is this advice that Mitch Mcconnell is giving, which i think trump is not following anyway. Is that more useful . Very plainly, jim mattis told the president a lot of things he didnt want to hear. I thought it was obvious that jim was pulling President Trump in the right direction on a lot of issues. And i know from personal experience having worked with jim in the pentagon, he knows how to say no, you shouldnt do that. And the president its difficult to get that kind of advice. Very often you want to go in this direction. The people that work for you want to take new another direction. You have to listen, you have to understand. You have to appreciate what you dont know about the job and listen to your wise advisers. Hes lost one yesterday. I am very worried about the country. I am very worried about our National Defense and who is going to be the next secretary of defense. Hopefully, its somebody who has the ability to gain the respect of the military and give the president straight, honest advice. All right. Former Homeland Security secretary jay johnson, thank you very much, ev len farkas, jane harman, thank you both as well. Up next, there is a reason she one of the best historians out there, Michael Beschloss wrote this. Seven weeks before resigning the presidency, Richard Nixon and his wife pat fly to syria for a visit with president hafes alassad. Morning joe is coming right back. [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations, so shark invented duo clean. While deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. Duo clean technology, corded and cordfree. And fearlessly devours piles. Theres brushing. And theres oralb power brushing. Oralb just cleans better. Even my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. And unlike sonicare, oralb is the First Electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada. Oralb. Brush like a pro. You have leaders, great leaders who have left the administration in dismay and the rest of them have left in disgrace and thats what this administration has been about. We dont want to be fear mongers. This great country can handle just about anything. But it shouldnt have to. Yes, i am shaken by the resignation of general mattis, for what it means to our country. For the message it sends to our troops and for the indication of what his view is of the commanderinchief. The dow plunged again, nearly 500 points, erasing all of this years gains. The u. S. Government is poised to shut down at midnight and the last past man standing is walking away. Defense secretary jim mass it is leaving the administration in what the New York Times calls an extraordinary rebuke from the president. He single handedly propelled the u. S. Into crisis. They are sounding the alarm. Former defense secretary and chief leon panetta says the constant state of chaos may satisfy the president s need for attention, but it is raising hell with the country. Welcome to morning joe. It is friday, december 21st. With us, we sponsor National Affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc and cohost of shoi show times the circus john heilemann, political analyst susan del percio. President of the council on Foreign Relations, author of the book, a world in disarray. Richard haase. Columnist at the New York Post john fedoris. Now, chief analyst for nbc news, and msnbc, retired fourstar Navy Admiral James stavrides, and former ambassador to nato. Former state Department Spokesman Nicholas Burns, joins us, professor of diplomacy at the Harvard Kennedy school of government. It really has been quite a week. Yesterday was quite a day. You have the markets. You have Senate Republicans in open revolt more and more by the day, you have him out of the occupation, now, donald trump is turning it over to Vladimir Putin and you have america, mika, in retreat across the globe and the most extraordinary resignation in modern American History certainly in the past 40 years. What an incredible week it has been. So were going to get to that resignation and specifically the Resignation Letter from defense secretary mattis in just a moment. First, we are now 701 days into the Trump Presidency and we want to begin by recapping just one week in this administration, one week, apparently an ad minlstration unraveling from within. As probes expanded into more of the president s political business and foreign ties on friday, a week ago today, his search for a new chief of staff failed, resulting in an intimpick. One who we found had to call trump a quote terrible human being right before the 2016 election. On saturday the secretary of interior obankruptly resigned, hoping to ward off investigations from the newly empowered House Democrats. That was followed by the president lashing out on twitter, calming his form were attorney a rat and once again bashing the fbi. On monday the markets continued their slide into the worst december since the great depression. The Senate Intelligence committee reported that social media posts by russians aimed at helping trump continued into his administration. This time, attacking Robert Mueller. Monday saw indictments in a turkey scheme involving former National Security adviser Michael Flynn, who on tuesday was accused by a judge of selling out his country and warned to cooperate more or face jail time. Then on wednesday, were just at wednesday, President Trump tweeted seemingly out of the blue, his orders for a full withdrawal from syria, taking the pentagon by surprise and infuriating republicans on capitol hill. Yesterday, trump blew up a deem to fund the government over conservative criticism on a border wall and that brings us to the secretary of defense, resigning in protest of the president s world view the first time that has everyone happened. It was an incredible week. The pentagon Spokesman Says secretary mattis visited the white house on thursday afternoon, met with President Trump and hand delivered a letter of resitiongnation. And reports emerged of a major pullout from afghanistan. The letter includes none of the usual thanks, and praise for the president s leadership or accomplishments, nor even a sal youtation at the end. Al youtation at the end. Admiral stavrides, your eaction to yesterdays events and the departure of james mattis. You know, ive known jim mattis for decades, of course, when he was a kerm, his call sign was fought mad dog. His actual call sign was chaos, which stands for colonel has an outstanding solution. It was an affectionate term for a full colonel who flew around the battlefield and inflicted chaos on his opponents. I think the thing to key in on here is that letter. The three salient points are, allies, partners and friends. This network that our country enjoys, that he saw being taken apart. Number two is the rise of strategic competitors, russia, china, and, in particular the way were essentially ceding the middle east to russia, deep, deep concern to jim. And, thirdly, not staying firm, going after terror the maligned actors piece so allied, partners, friends, strategic competitors and going after the terrorists. The last one being the pullout of siree and the pullout of afghanistan. Those ought to worry us deeply. Thats how we will see the return of global terrorism leaving that zone opened. Mattis saw all of that. I think he wanted to stay. We realize as we checked on the program, joe, mika, to stay any longer, he would have gone from being a guardrail to being a part of this, to being an enabler. Right. He had to make that choice. It was a terrible choice for james mattis. I feel for him with all my heart. But he made the right choice, in my view. Ambassador, nick burns. Something like this hasnt happened in over 40 years. It happened very rarely that you have a cabinet official departing an administration in protest. But it certainly happened yesterday with jim mattis. The language was searing and anybody thats been covering the news over the past two years are watching the news, couldnt have missed his mattis reference to russia and that he sees russia as an enemy and hes disappointed in the fact that donald trump doesnt understand that. Well, are you right, joe, this was a letter of protest. It was also a letter of principle and secretary mattis is reminding the president but all of us, of whats really important for the United States overseas, that we have to be committed to our allies and President Trump, of course, is the weakest american president to lead a Nato Alliance. Hes made it into a competitor. Mant tis said russia and china are our adversaries. We have to stand up to them and have strong and consistent policies and President Trump has been the weakest american president in trying to oppose Vladimir Putin. Hes cozied up to putin. This is going to hurt the United States because jim mattis was the strongest member of the cabinet, the most experienced member of the cabinet, had the most credibility with the rest of the world. The person that people felt could restrain this effectless and cynical president. So his absence after february 28 will hurt our country. You have seen already the damage hes done in announcing the pullout of syria, a gift to putin and the iranians and hezbollah. Now there is damage to afghanistan to our policy where hes cut the legs out from our negotiator trying to get the taliban to compromise with us. Why would they compromise with us when they know we will be leaving both in afghanistan and syria . So a very consequential loss for us. Still ahead on morning joe, Mitch Mcconnell puts out a statement that hes distressed about jim mat the is resignation. For him, that is like screaming at the top of his lungs. We will show you the comments from the majority leader who rarely disagrees in public with the president. You are watching morning joe. Well be right back. You are watn [ music playing ] ing joe. Well be rightk. [ music playing youre in the business of helping people. Were in the business of helping you. Business loans for eligible card members up to fifty thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. The powerful backing of american express. Dont do business without it. But allstate helps you. With drivewise. Feedback that helps you drive safer. And that can lower your cost now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . Theres brushing. And theres oralb power brushing. Oralb just cleans better. Even my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. And unlike sonicare, oralb is the First Electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada. Oralb. Brush like a pro. For christmas because they keep getting better. Theres smartouch for selfies, then theres four way stretch for flexibility. They even have smartdri. See . Stays dry. So get isotoner gloves for the whole family. Well, last night, the majority leader senator Mitch Mcconnell, who has been very careful. Yeah. To not criticize donald trump issued a direct statement to the president that echoed mattis calls to our allies. He wrote, quote, i believe its eshlg that the United States maintain and strengthen the postworld war alliances that have been carefully built by leaders of both parties. We must also maintain a cleareyed understanding of our friends and foes and recognize that nations of russia are among the latter. So i was sorry to learn that secretary mattis who shares those clear principles will depart the administration. But i am particularly distressed that he is resigning due to sharp differences with the president on these and other key aspects of americas global leadership. It is regrettable that the president must now choose a new secretary of defense, but i urge him to select a leader who shares secretary mattis understanding of these vital principles and his total commitment to Americas Service members. John s awakened from a long dream. Sort of a while you were sleeping dream and understood yesterday that donald trump actually, his Foreign Policy at least is bad for americas longterm national interests. I think mcconnells statement is fascinating because what mattis said in his statement is trump has a mature fully formed Foreign Policy opinion with which he disagrees and hef can no longer count, that its contrary to mattis understanding. Calling on trump to hire another mattis, who does not share trumps views seems to be to be a fools errand. Trump has decided for whatever reason to take charge of this Foreign Policy, not to listen to his experts and to fulfill his Campaign Promises, no matter what. And so i dont know whether, you know, it might be better for trump and for america to have a secretary of defense who will be, you know, who will flesh this out to the degree that trump needs, because this is what we have. This is what we dont have and mattis. You actually made. John, you made a fascinating, yet a fascinating insight to that Mitch Mcconnell letter. You have james mattis saying, mr. President , i disagree with you, i have to leave. I disagree with your policies. Then have you the majority leader saying and now, mr. President , i expect you to select another secretary of defense who disagrees with your Foreign Policy. Right. You know, i think the interesting thing if you said to anybody, last week, if james mattis goes, who is coming in . I think the general consensus answer would be senator Lindsey Graham would be the obvious next secretary of defence. Its what he has been angling for and has been so nice to trump for the last year, yearandahalf. I dont see how he can, after the mattis letter, how exactly and what he said yesterday about the syrian withdrawal, i dont see how he can be the secretary of defense in anyway, shape or form. He has a direct contradictory Foreign Policy view from the president of the United States and thats where we stand. I disagree with it. Everybody here seems to disagree with it. It doesnt matter, he was elected and i think the fascinating thing, you pointed to the question, i think the thing that is so strikeing is that the reporting suggested that he decided to pull out of syria because he got a phone call with president ertd juan of Turkey Erdogan of turkey, who said, we are going after the syrian kurds. You americans better get out of the way and the president of the United States rather than saying, dont tell me to get out of the way, we will stop you. We are there and we will stop you from harassing and killing our allies, the syrian kurds, decided to full our troops out. Coming up on morning joe, nothing apparently made the president angrier than seeing Jeff Sessions recuse himself from the russia probe. The former ags successor, it seems, has no plans of making the same mistake in the eyes of the president. Thats next on morning joe. O the president. Thats next on morning joe. Theres brushing. And theres oralb power brushing. Oralb just cleans better. Even my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. And unlike sonicare, oralb is the First Electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada. Oralb. Brush like a pro. Every road in the world is now an information superhighway. phone ringing and the car has become an accessory to the smartphone. Ride hailing, car sharing, carpooling. Mobility services are proliferating. And theres a new generation who dont seem to want to own cars in the first place. It all means massive disruption to the car industry, cities, businesses and investors. Im Martyn Briggs for bank of America Merrill lynch. The zip code youre born into can determine your future. Your school. Your job. Your dreams. Your problems. indistinct shouting but at the y, we create opportunities for everyone, no matter who you are or where youre from. For a better us, donate to your local y today. The acting attorney general has decided not to recuse himself in the russia probe. How we got to that point is far from straight forward. Joining us now, nbc news intelligence and National Security reporter and cofounder and ceo of axios, jim vand hide joins us. Ken, how do we get to this point . Whats the arc of the pathway to this point with whit kerr . Well, so whitaker was a u. S. Attorney and a tight end on the iowa Football Team. He was jeff session chief of staff, got to this point after becoming after he was a commentator on cnn and he criticized the Mueller Investigation the premise of the Mueller Investigation. He said at one point there was no collusion. He questioned mr. Aspects of how bob mueller was doing his job. Step right there, wouldnt that be a reason for recusal . Well, not legally, mika. Thats the issue. According to Justice Department officials. And we now have a letter from the Justice Department to the leaders of congress laying all this out. That the appearance of impropriety created by whitakers many statements to the media did not require a legal requirement for recuse am or a requirement that he get formal ethics advice. But he got informal advice from the top ethics official at the Justice Department. That person said, look, this is a close call. If i were you, i would recuse, essentially, he was recommending he step aside because reasonable people could question his impartiality on that statement. Math chew whitaker relied on a council of a group of advisers, he is not accepting the advice of a senior ethics official at the Justice Department. What that means is Matthew Whitaker could end up being the person to decide what to do with the Mueller Report, if our reporting lands in midfebruary. Mika. John heilemann here. I want to ask you this question. Given that the rule that whitaker plays would be very different in how we see it would look a lot different if frats were in control of the house of representatives. We know how democrats control the house of representatives. Given thats the case the crucial rule as ken suggested, given the rule, is it not the case one way or another what happens to bob muellers investigation is going to become public . The Justice Department makes a lot of those decision on what becomes public and when. I think what you are talking about is if they go down the impeachment route, they will get a lot of the testimony put on the Public Record so thats right. This is consequential in the short term, that if they want to derail the investigation, curtail the investigation, they could, if trump decided to do that. And i do think the anticipation is a report that will come some time next year. When we talked to rudy guiliani, he told mike alan the trump part of the investigation is almost over. Theyre trying to get trump under oath and written answers from trump. But there is many other pieces they dont think are resolved. So its possible you will see different parts of this report. But i do think the game changes, as crazy as this day is, as crazy as this month had been, once democrats have that subpoena power, thats when trump gets really, really nervous. He is already being told, a working assumption internally, regardless of what democrats say, he will one day be impeached over the next course of the next 18 months and one of the reasons he spent so much time worrying about the base is that he knows he needs 34 republican senators to stick with him through thick or thin, hence, his obsession with delivering on all of his Campaign Promises. Hence his reacting to who drudge does or rush little balk cause or anne coulter does. All of this tough is intertwined and is animating a lot of the chaos you are seeing. Coming up, two of the best when it comes to putting these things into perspective. Historians meachham and john beschloss join the conversation next on morning joe. Beschloss join the conversation next on morning joe. Jmeachham beschloss join the conversation next on morning joe. Omeachham beschloss join the conversation next on morning joe. Hmeachham beschloss join the conversation next on morning joe. Nmeachhamn beschloss join the conversation next on morning joe. Meachham john beschloss join the conversation next on morning joe. Nversation next on mornin joe. Life isnt a straight line. Things happen. And sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. But at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected with Retirement Planning and advice for what you need today and tomorrow. Because when youre with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, theres nothing to stop you from moving forward. So shark invented duo clean. While deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. Duo clean technology, corded and cordfree. Isis is honoring president obama. He is the founder of isis. Hes the founder of isis. He said president obama is the founder of isis. He refounded isis. Because they have 30,000 men there, theyre already striking back. Brian, i have to respectfully and vehemently disagree with you. The idea that the president has had anything to do with helping isis reemerge is absolutely outray just. Wow. White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders in an Intense Exchange with fox and friends host brian kilmeade, who said President Trump refounded isis with his decision to withdraw u. S. Troops from syria. John heilman, susan del percio, casey hunt are back with us. John heilman, its interesting to watch the president s relationship with conservative media seemingly devolve in some ways in light of the events of the past 48 hours. Reporter sure, meek california its been fascinating, especially on fox and friends, one of the morning shows the president has been known to watch with some interest. A couple dies ago, you saw them say he had lost the battle over the wall to nancy pelosi. They came out right out and said it, my god, donald trump capitulated nancy pelosi, a big win. They had the ability to see the nose on their face. Now theyre saying it again in the context with this discussion with Sarah Huckaby sanders. Look, i find it fascinating, the president , obviously the things he is doing with respect to the shutdown seem to be driven very much by conservative media. He seems to be talking to rush limbaugh, taking advice from anne coulter and laura ingram and oughts, there is a recognition the jig is up for the president and a greater willingness than weve heard in a long time for them to speak the truth about the ways in which, again, not to beat a dead horse or overuse the metaphor, wheels, wagons, not necessarily conjoined any longer. And it seems like, mika, that that, the conservative news media went from being a cheerleader of donald trump to trying to dictate the policy of donald trump. And now we face something that the president really better realize, only he is responsible for the actions he takes. Fox news is not going to step up and take responsibility if we have a shutdown. This all falls on the president. And, you know, i understand he likes favorable reviews as he calls it, but its time to turn off the tv. He just has to stop listening, because he is so easily guided by these folks on television. Well, joining us now, we have a number of the judiciary committees, subcommission on Border Security, vice Ranking Member of the budget committee. Democratic congressman Pramila Jayapal out of walk. What did we learn from secretary nielsen beyond the word, we want wall. What are your take aways from the hearing and how do you feel about them . Mika, it was a tough hearing to sit through. I said that when it came to my turn to question secretary nielsen. The reason it was so difficult is she told untruth after untruth. She literally. The facts did not comport with the truth. So, for example, she continued to insist and she was questioned by many members, that there was no family separation policy. I pointed out to her that she had received four pinnochios for that statement from fact checkers. She insisted that only 10 of Asylum Seekers were able to get into the country. Which totally misses the fact that it all depends on whether or not have you an attorney. So this went on and there was a denigrating of immigrants coming into the country, no recognition for, you know the rule that the trump admin role that the Trump Administration has played in actually building up the numbers on the mexico side. And i was in tijuana two weeks ago. I spoke with these Asylum Seekers. Mika, a 16yearold boy shot in both knees by gangs in honduras. These were the people we are talking about. The take away is she has a lot of answering to do. I know she will come back before us. This was the first time weve had the secretary. Kelly didnt come before us when he was secretary and she has not come until now. So were going to have her back when democrats have the gavel. I think it will be a different kind of hearing. Kasie hunt. Congresswoman, good to see you. Another moment that stuck out to me, she was asked if she knew how many people had passed away in the custody of cvp or of i. C. E. How what was that moment like and what do you want to hear from her if you do bring her back in front of the committee on that subject . Hi, casey, great to see you. Yes, she was asked and she could not answer the question and until that was david cicilline, my colleague, two pushed on that when it got to my turn, i told her i had to tell her how many people had died. 81 individuals have died in dhs custody since 2010. Just in the short time she has been secretary, 12 individuals have died. So i think this lack of sort of attention to the fact that the u. S. Government has custody of these individuals and is responsible for them. The lack of medical care. The lack of attention to making sure that these individuals are treated, given water, given food, given medical care. It was really stunning and so i think when she comes back before democrats, she will actually have to give us the very specific things that the agency is doing and i think were going to put in minimum standards before we release additional funds to these private detention facilities that house about threequarters of all of these immigrants. Just imagine 4 billion in profit from these private detention facilities that dhs uses. Congresswoman, john heilman here. Have you some Great Committee assignments, some of which are about to get more interesting than they have been over the course of the last few years the one im thinking of is the judiciary committee, you will be at the center of a lot of action once we get to january. Talk to us about what you think of the decision of acting attorney general whitaker to ignore the advice of the ethics counsel in the Justice Department about recusal and what you on the committee intend to do about it when you take power . Very distressing. This is actual advice from ethics to say you have a conflict of interest, you into toad recuse yourself. He is choosing not to do that. So we have already said, soon to be chairman nadler on our side said we will have him in to go through this. But you know i think we have to focus some attention here on republicans who have continued to refuse to protect the special counsels investigation. Time and time again, theyve refused to do that. I have to say, im really disappointed that republicans are not standing up and saying, we need to make sure that we are protecting this investigation. Remember when Robert Mueller was appointed . Everybody came out, republicans included, and said, what an upstanding guy he was. He was a republican. He could be counted on. And now were in this situation where they really have been attacking him on every level. And so, this is a huge concern for us. We will pass a special counsel protection bill. Im sure of it when democrats take the georgia. B gavel. But it will be up to republicans in the senate to speak out, when Mitch Mcconnell says he is disappointed and this and that. Right. They need to do things to protect our constitution that should not be partisan. Im really confused as to why they werent able to do that congresswoman, thank you for being on. Thank you. Coming up the president is tweeting feverishly, beige democrats if the government shuts down tonight, as if everyone forgets what he said in the Oval Office Last week. And as we continue to discuss the impact of defense secretary james mattis resignation, with rereminded of that bizarre Cabinet Meeting last year, where the president was lavished with praise, as other members talked about the honor and privilege of serving donald trump. Heres what mattis said. Its an honor to represent the men and women of the department of defense and we are grateful for the sacrifices our people are making in order to strengthen the military so our diplomats can always negotiate from a position of strength. Thank you. Te from a position of strength. Thank you. Thats why this is the view for every other fullsize pickup. And this year, its deja vu all over again. cuz only the ford f150 gives you bestinclass torque, bestinclass payload. And you got it, baby. Bestinclass towing. This is the big dog this is the ford f150. It doesnt just raise the bar, pal. It is the bar. And now, you can get a ford f150 with zero percent financing for 72 months. Only at your ford dealer. Singular focus, a distinct determination to do whatever it takes, and use every possible resource to fight cancer, and never lose sight of the patients were fighting for. 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President trump has send ten tweets over the last hour or so about the wall and the shutdown, among them, quote, even president Ronald Reagan tried for eight years to build a border wall, or a fence, and was unable to do so. Others also have tried. We will get it done one way or another. Well, here is the 40th president of the United States in his own words. Rather than making them or talking about putting up a fence, why dont we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit and then while theyre working and earning here, they pay taxes here. Yes, a little different. What do facts mean anyway, when you are tweeting and you are the president . Joining us now, historian, author of the soul of america and rogers professor of the presidency of the university, john meachham, an nbc news and msnbc contributor. With us, president ial historian Michael Beschloss, the author of the book president s of war. And a political analyst, author of winners take all, glad to have you on the board, down the line, meachham, ill start with you. Secretary as of february, our secretary of defense is leaving. Parallels in history are there any . I can think of one, maybe 40 years ago, but it doesnt feel this stark and rattling, really. Well, you never want to get a pageandahalf Resignation Letter that lays out a totally coherent and conventional view. Blistering. Of american Foreign Policy and then get to the twists paragraph, which is sense you share none of this, you need someone else. And its really a remarkable document. I think in the michael would, can back me up on this. I think its arguably the most remarkable Resignation Letter i can think of. You are alluding to. Go ahead. I think, no, what you are alluding to about 40 years ago was james slazinger, secretary of defense in the last years of water gate, reportedly issuing an order saying any military command that came from the white house should go through him, because he was worried about possibly nixon sending for tanks to come around and probability him in the white house. I dont i dont know that were in that city yet, but were certainly in that county. Wow. Michael beschloss, whats the historical parallel or what . For those whose nerves are really jiangled after yesterday. I can tell you after one of them. I am, too. Can we draw any parallel in history as to how this system holds when it feels like the wheels are coming a tough bus . There are insiders at the state department who were there for mattis, who will not be there without mattis, like this is more than mattis. No, this is exactly right, meek car, i feel the same way that you do. And the fact is, there really is no parallel. Because weve never been in a situation where Many Americans if elt that we were all depending on our secretary of defense to protect us against an impulsive sometimes wild and radical president. You know, i think this is really sort of the red line, as long as m mattis was there in the pentagon protecting us, making sure any strong order from donald trump was resisted and, you know, making sure that policies that were erat cal and abrupt departure, that he would carry them out in a very slow way, i think we felt that donald trump was a little bit less dangerous. That same safeguard the about the to go. And you combine that with an impulsive president who has a relationship with a hostile foreign power, russia, of a kind that we still do not know what it is, and, you know, what if he should put some Matt Whitaker type in as secretary of defense, who is going to say, share the Nuclear Codes with the russians or do something, that could happen, if you look a what what hes done at the department of justice, that is not farfetched. John heilemann. I want to ask you here at the table, you know, you think about we talked earlier on the show about America First rhetoric and a lot of the isolationist talk that trump espousd during the course of the campaign. A lot of it was talk for much of the administration. All of a sudden, were looking at this week, were talking about literally, withdrawing from syria, essentially withdraw from afghanistan and or at home talking about we got to build this wall. Suddenly, although i dont think the wall is going to get built, suddenly the America First gloss is suddenly starting to feel more tangible in american life. What does that mean for us . From do we go from here . This was the best wooic that russia and china had in a long time. I was a Foreign Correspondent in asia for many years. This is the dream for the rising powers of asia. The president is trying to the president is try to go create problems to distract us from other problems. He reminds us of he is the arsonist. He is trying to distract us from the fire and then market himself to us as the rescue boat and the firefighter. I love the letter. I agree that it is an important historical document. All of the truth to power being spoken in this era is upon retirement or resignation. In the history of the country the most important is wile he had the job. I would like to see more of these brave people that have the courage to write these letters actually using their time in officer to be bold. To refuse orders. To not do illegal things. To not send troops to the border this president needs to be encircled and frankly eventually removed from office. Susan. Looking towards the Government Shutdown right now, last week we heard that he will take the mantle on this. He folded like a cheap lawn chair on it. Now he is tweeting up a storm on it. How concerned are republicans of where the president , his state of mienld, where he is going . How many more things can he potentially blow up before we hit the shutdown and who knows when we come back . Republicans are gravely concerned. Mitch mcconnell said you dont learn anything from the second kick of the mule. They know they will take the blame for shutdown. You can see in the tweets the president is to redirect. He is urging to get rid of the filibuster rules to blow up yet another one of our institutions that protects, you know, the rights of minorities from the Majority Party in power in order to pass this border wall at the last minute. He has shown absolutely zero appetite for this. He is an institutionalist in the senate if there ever was one at least on this very point. I simply dont at this point see a way out of it unless the president was able to take what they may be able to come up with. John, i am wondering if you can pull the pieces together and read how it is all playing out together in the context of history. With the president essentially, you know, going back on his word to republicans that he was going to keep the government open at christmas with the looming Mueller Investigation, the cohen indictments, are we getting to the point where republicans in congress will have to reevaluate their position in history . I think we are way past that point. I think we have talked before about one of the tests you have to talk about in life but in public life in particular is what are people going to think when they look at your oil portrait . What will you be remembered for . Do you want to be remembered for enabling the most chaotic president. I think historically speaking it seems to me, and michael can check me on this, we have never elected this kind of figure to the highest office. We have had them in more than public life. We have had Andrew Johnson as a different type but to act which willy in a popular election send someone who represents a persistent and perennial appeal and not better angels is unprecedented. What he has done is he has turned daily life into this chaotic series of scary moments. Its kind of like the old thing in grade school. It is always funny until someone gets their eye put out. I think thats where we are. Casey, you know this, every person in washington or a position of some conventional influence in america said everything will be fine because mattis is there. Youre absolutely right. That has been it. They could hide behind him. And now hes not. The test becomes, as you say, what are you going to do . Hey, you know, he is quoted a lot and occasionally you wake up and youre thinking that and i know youre scared. Not ir rational. I dont think ir rational at all. We are watching the unraveling of a presidency. We are not and we are only early into it. It is going to get it will get scarier. Talk a little bit. There are presidencies that unravel. Talk about what it looks like to see a presidency as it unravels and how a country copes with that. I agree with you, john. We are about to see something we probably havent seen before. The prospect of a shutdown. The department of justice is in jeopardy. You trump acting as an attorney general. He probably shouldnt even be there. The possibility of a new attorney general who have has written the idea of Robert Mueller. God knows what is going to happen there. The rule of law is in jeopardy. All im saying is that what we have to depend on is the system working . Mcconnell is saying if youre thinking of a new lap dog you cant have that. You to have someone thats perhaps not of the views but someone who is a traditional secretary of defense. And the prayer is this is the moment where they stand up to the president and do the right thing. Right. Im curious, so many different investigations surrounding the white house, his election. You have had some thoughts on twitter. Look at all of those. One, two, three, four, five, six coming at him in different directions. Many think when he gets very upset about this he acts in a strange der ranged way but you had some thoughts and concerns about this specific focus on the foundation which had to be shut down. Yeah. I think it was one of the many, as you say. It captured this larger phenomenon. It is of a lot of wealthy and powerful people long before donald trump was on the political scene and running the country are if their own benefit and creating this widespread feeling things are rigged. Donald trump preyed on that while becoming the incarnation of the problem. A minute or two to go at the top of the hour i want to leave a little bit of hope. Today is the shortest day of the year. That means every day after today the sunshines a little bit longer and a little bit brighter. I do think despielt everything that we are talking about we have a house that will have the power to investigate this most corrupt presidency starting next month. We have a Mueller Investigation closing in. I think theres a real prospect and courageous republicans that have their heart. I dont think youre suggesting today is the darkest day we are going to experience, right . No. Its the shortest day of the year. Less time for him to tweet and do damage to the country. Thats a good thing i guess. Kasie hunt, what are you look at today . Where do you focus . I think the key players are mcconnell and schumer. You have the president calling them to invoke the Nuclear Option which means passing with 50 votes. Very unlikely. What is schumers next move . We will be watching you and your reporting. Thanks to all of you for joining us this morning. Quite a day in the history of this country. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie picks up the coverage right now. Quite a day indeed. We have got a lot to do over today starting with capital chaos. The country launching towards a shutdown after he tells speaker ryan he will not sign a temporary government funding bill leaving 750,000 people in danger of losing their paychecks four days before chris bhas. Maybe he thinks he can golf more comfortably. Thats not how it works