Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20180319

Kc d. C. On msnbc, where was it . It was so good last night. Thank you. New york times reporter mata is with us and mike barn kal and National Affairs analyst John Heilemann is with us as well. Joe is off this morning. Were going to start with the firing of former fbi Deputy Director Andrew Mccabe. And President Trump now raising doubts about whether mccabe kept personal notes about their oval office meetings. Two people familiar with the case tell the Washington Post that mccabe memorialized his interactions with the president in memos which, if true, could become key pieces of evidence in Robert Muellers russia probe. On sunday morning, the president lashed out at the report, tweeting, spent very little time with Andrew Mccabe, but he never took notes when he was with me. I dont believe he made memos except to help his own agenda, probably at a later date. Same with lying james comey. Can we call them fake memos . Hours later a lawyer for Andrew Mccabe tweeted, we will not be responding to each childish, defactory, disgusting and false tweet by the president. The whole truth will come out in due course, but the tweets confirm that he has corrupted the entire process that led to mr. Mccabes termination and has rendered it illegitimate. Attorney general Jeff Sessions announced mccabes firing 10 00 p. M. On friday night, 24 hours before he was set to retire. According to axios, mccabe was informed of his dismissal just nine minutes before the news was released to the media. Before his firing, mccabe told politico that his work on the fbis russia probe is what sparked a Smear Campaign against him. He said, quote, i firmly believe that this is an on going effort to undermine my credibility because of the work that i did on the russia case because of the investigation that i oversaw and impacted that targets this administration. He went on to say, that they have every reason to believe that i could end up being a significant witness in whatever the special counsel comes up with and so they are trying to create this counternarrative that i am not someone who can be believed or trusted. Theres so much to get to here and so many other stories that play into this, but first, David Ignatius, is trump going to fire muler . Well, he certainly made noises as if hes getting ready to do that. Hes setting the table for it. It fits the pattern. It does fit the pattern. I think that one thing we saw this weekend was certainly trump pushing against the limits of this cage he feels himself in. But republicans speaking out on the hill surprisingly forcefully, Lindsey Graham, speaker of the house ryan, Chris Christie saying that any attempt to fire mueller would be a serious mistake, would bring on a crisis implying that those republicans at least would not support the president. So, the end of this weekend i think the likelihood that hell fire mueller may be a little less than it appeared to be than when it started. Big players in this investigation covering this feel like attacking this personally, the way the president acted over the weekend is a step toward firing mueller. You talk about republicans pushing back. Paul ryan didnt put his vase and his voice on it. He did this through a spokesperson. He did, but still theres something on the record from ryan. What weve seen from the house is a series of capitulations to trump, certainly from the National Intelligence community, devin nunes step by step has been trumps kind of floor leader on the house. I thought ryan stepped away from that. Yes, it was in the name of his spokesman, not him, but if i was sitting in the white house, i would take this as a warning. I thought thats the way trumps lawyer john dowd took it. By the end of the week dowd was pulling back and saying, i didnt say we wanted to fire. First, are we going to hear from more republicans on this . Its the usual suspects except for paul ryan dipping his toe into it through a spokesperson . Can we get more from republicans . His big toe. Seriously. The person im waiting to hear from was Mitch Mcconnell. There was a difference how ryan and mcconnell handled this over the weekend. Mcconnell has been straight up silent. Davids point is well taken about the House Speaker. The Speakers Office and the speaker himself have to a certain extent been on them a little surprised by how aggressively political everything around devin nunes was, how quickly that all came to a head and i think there are some in his office who would say they probably should have handled that differently. And so i think when it comes to mueller, they want to make sure they handle it the right way. If this was perhaps part of the president s attempts to negotiate in public with mueller for the terms of his interview or whether it was a trial balloon to see whether republicans were going to be willing to still defend mueller. That would be an open question. You have republicans backing legislation to try to protect him. They were vocal about it. They had stepped back. This was a test for the president to say, hey, maybe i could do this. The answer seems to be no. John heilemann, the president s tweets, especially about mccabe over time and then his actions over the weekend, what do they tell you . Well, certainly i agree with everything that david said and agree with everything kasie said in the sense there was movement over the weekend that the trumps tweets were extraordinary, first time he mentioned mueller ever on twitter. He went far out there. Dowd went far out there. By the end of the weekend they were pulling back a little bit. Theres a lot to still discuss here. One interesting fact was the fact that the minority head chief minority member on the House Intelligence Committee adam schiff went in the opposite direction from the rest of the democratic party, which reacted in the typical way and said, hey, its possible that andy mccabes firing was justified. We need to know more about that. Theres a big set of facts hanging out there. It will be in the jus it is Department Inspector generals report. So, first of all, matt, when are we going to see that report . Secondly, is there not an interpretation to all of this that that was trump trying to create a kind of litmus test for Jeff Sessions . And sessions making this decision in some ways preserved his job and did not give trump an easy pretext for firing sessions . Yeah. And the report youre referring to obviously is this long awaited Inspector Generals report. We know there is one specifically on Andrew Mccabe. Obviously the ig has been investigating a whole range of issues related to the fbis activities during the 2016 campaign. You know, we hope were going to see the mccabe report soon because frankly to your point and to schiffs point, the accusations that the attorney general has lobbed here are incredible serious. This lack of candor is basically the kiss of death at the fbi. The fbi can excuse a lot of things, lose your gun, drive drunk, beat your spouse and youll be disciplined but you could keep your job, lack of candor, theres no coming back from that. I really want to see this report and be able to judge what exactly was said, did he flat out lie. I spoke with mccabe and hep is adamant he did not mislead anybody, that he did not lie, he was not that he did show candor and that this is all an effort to discredit him. And frankly the president s tweets over the weekend and john dowds statements play right into that argument because there were career officials at the fbi and Justice Department involved in this process and the doj would like to remind the public that this is a real process, not a politicized one, but the president by every time he opens his mouth on twitter and brings up Andrew Mccabe and taunts him or goads him or talking about his wife or pension it just adds to mccabes defense that this is all about mueller. This is all about trying to discredit me. Matt, let me stay with you on this and come back to my question about sessions. There are a couple different questions. Ill unpack my initial first cut and say obviously theres a theory out there that sessions was given a litmus test here by trump and sort of a Conspiracy Theory in some way, the notion that sessions by firing, by agreeing to fire mccabe preserved his own position. But embedded with that question is another question i would like you to address how does sessions could make this decision at all given that he is supposedly recused from anything that touches on the russia investigation which mccabe, as he rightly points out, could end up being a witness in a variety of different potential forums Going Forward depending on what mueller does . Right. Its a good question. I think that the four corners of the mccabe issue if you read it narrowly doesnt touch on russia, right . Ultimately this is about whether he was honest with internal investigators that was related to 2016 article in the wall street journal that was related to Hillary Clinton. So it wasnt related to trump. So a narrow reading of this would suggest that this doesnt have anything to do with russia and this wouldnt cover the attorney generals recusal. Of course if you just pull back the lens a little bit, it becomes really hard to separate Andrew Mccabe and russia. He was there from day one when the australians come to the fbi and say we have information about george papadopoulos, the Trump Campaign adviser, that he has potentially inside information about russian Andrew Mccabe is there. So its very hard to separate those two. Right. Matt, hes already saying hes got the notion that he has these notes from his interactions with trump around the firing of comey puts him right in the middle of the obstruction of justice question. So its kind of this is all balled up together. Its hard to make a clean case that sessions that this is wholly apart from what the special prosecutor is doing or from the russia investigation given that mccabe touches almost everything that has to do with the Justice Department and these relevant matters. Absolutely. And the president doesnt make it any easier on Jeff Sessions to try to stake out that this was all fair and imbalance and impair shall by the fact that hes publicly needled the attorney general why hasnt he fired Jeff Sessions . The president tweeted why hasnt he replaced Andrew Mccabe . Mccabe would say, look, this is evidence that theres a war going on between the president of the United States and the fbi and bob mueller and Andrew Mccabe in the middle of this. Until we see this report, we cant really judge for ourselves what the underlying facts are. As to why he was fired. Exactly. Session questions are just one sliver of this. Last night the white house faulted the media for questioning whether President Trump will fire special counsel Robert Mueller. After the president and one of his top lawyers offered unprompted criticism of mueller this weekend, amid a string of tweets about the dismissal of career fbi agent Andrew Mccabe, potential witness in the Mueller Probe, just hours before his full pension eligibility, President Trump issued his first tweets specifically attacking mueller by name. Quote, Mueller Probe should never have been started. That there was no collusion and there was no crime. It was based on fraudulent activities and fake dossier paid for by crooked hillary and dnc and improperly used in fisa court for surveillance witch hunt. Does anyone think this is fair . But the president has falsely claimed there was no crime. Falsely claimed that the probe was based on the dossier used to dispute an argument about the fisa court and falsely claimed there are zero republicans on muellers team. Among other falsehoods and exaggerations levelled this weekend. Fact checked all of this as the morning goes on. In a statement, the president s special counsel ty cobb said in response to media speculation and related questions being posed to the administration the white house yet again confirms that the president is not considering or discussing the firing of special counsel Robert Mueller. This, as new pressure on the president and his lawyers appear to have led to these new attacks. The New York Times report the president s tweets came as mueller is said to have sent questions to trumps legal team as part of negotiations over an interview with the president. After reports that mueller subpoenaed the Trump Organization, demanding documents about russia, on saturday trumps outside counsel john dowd told the daily beast i pray that acting attorney general rosenstein will follow the brilliant and courageous example of the fbi office of professional responsibility and attorney general Jeff Sessions and bring an end to an alleged Russia Collusion Investigation. Manufactured by mccabes boss james comey. Based upon a fraudulent and corrupt dossier. When the daily beast initially asked dowd if he was speaking on behalf of the president he answered yes, as his counsel. After publication of this story, however, dowd emailed to say he was actually speaking in his personal capacity and not on the president s behalf. What a mess. Republican chairman of the house ov Oversight Committee trey gowdy had this to say. If you have an innocent client, mr. Dowd, act like it. Let special counsel mueller figure that out. As you believe as we found theres no evidence of collusion, you should want special counsel mueller to take all the time and have all the independence he needs to do his job. I mean, josh earnest, just watching this story from the outside not knowing trump, i have a little bit of insight to his patterns, but it appears that the questions freak them out. They melted down. Yeah, certainly raising the prospect of the president having to testify and answer questions himself that are posed by bob mueller i think freaked him out. It should freak him out. The fact of the matter is they have not been able to get their story straight. What we see continuously throughout this process and what weve seen since the beginning of this year is actually a c concerted attempt on the part of this white house not to provide greater clarity of what happened in the context of the election and not provide a clear plan what to do to, try to make it loesz clear about whats going on. Look, i dont personally happen to have a particular le favorable view of trey gowdy, but he makes a really good point. The fact of the matter is, if youre innocent, you should act like it. Say what you want about the trump white house, they are not acting like theyre innocent right now. This white house, Mike Barnacle lost so many people, some resigning, some being fired. More to come. What a mess. Big picture, we have big issues impacting this country and yet it appears everything stops with this investigation into the president , into his administration and the president seems overly focussed on it on a personal level especially with Andrew Mccabe let alone the Stormy Daniels revelations of her being threatened that are hanging around as well, sort of weighing over this president , which we know bothers him deeply. 17 past the hour and i am already exhausted from what weve been talking about. Unpacking everything that occurred just within 24 to 48 hours is utterly exhausting as well as depressing. Donald trump is the president of the United States. As such, he is the commander in chief. And his behavior over the recent past, his tweets, things he has said on the stump, things he has said in the oval office have proven that he is uniquely ill equipped for this job as president. Morally, ethically, psychologically, you name it. Hes proving it everyday. And David Ignatius, i would like to ask you russia attacked us. The commander in chief has done little about this, has said practically nothing about this. Whats the impact of his inaction and his inability to deal with the tax on his country, our country . Whats the impact of that on diplomats around the world and on the Intelligence Community here in this country . Well, this is a period in which russia appears resurgent, mike. Vladimir putin has just been wildly, glamorously reelected. He will be the leader of russia until 2024. And we have other nations stepping forward to challenge putin. Im struck by the fact that britain, a country that in many ways on its back heel after brexit is leading a coalition that has france, germany, and the somewhat reluctant additional participant is the United States under President Trump. Im glad that the u. S. Has joined in condemning russias actions. Trump has been a little more forthright, forthcoming in his statements. But the points you make that he is preoccupied with these domestic issues is the right one. Just say, mike and everybody, tonic for me watching this circus as mike said is exhausting, drives you crazy, was listening to senator jeff flake over the weekend in New Hampshire, a speech he gave last week at the National Press club, which he just said flat out, our country is being degraded by this behavior. Im embarrassed for my party. I look for republicans to stand up to this. I know that this will end some day. It will be over. And when its over, well be ashamed the people who didnt. Broke this crazy fog that were living in. Go ahead, josh. President obama when he gave his Campaign Announcement speech way back in 2007 used a phrase that felt publapplicable to thi weekend. He described the smallness of our politics and seemed misaligned with the big challenges our country is facing. It doesnt mean that the issues we are talking about arent important but it means the president and his team are focussing on the wrong things. If theyre focussing how to prevent a 20 year veteran of the fbi to prevent him from collecting his pension, talking about how to endorse a nondisclosure agreement with an adult film star, these are not the questions, these are not the consequential generational questions that are facing our country and the world. Theyre focussed on the wrong things. Thats another big story well get to with the nondisclosure agreements apparently with federal employees. Ill quote the president , its sad. It truly is sad. Exclamation point. Exclamation point. Some other news making headlines, in austin texas injured two people. Its the fourth explosion this month and police say they are working under the assumption theyre all related. The bombs were, quote, meant to send a message and yesterdays explosion may have been triggered by a trip wire. In other incidents, victims tried to pick up packages that had been left at their homes. Also making news, lawmakers are expected to unveil their sixmonth 1 trillion dollar spending billion in order to avoid another Government Shutdown at the end of the week. The deal is expected to keep the government funded at ramped up levels until the end of september. Negotiations have hit a number of speed bumps, including fights over immigration and funding for a southern border wall. And President Trump travels to New Hampshire today where he will announce a new policy for combatting the opioid epidemic. They will seek the Death Penalty where appropriate under current law. The plan also aims to cut the number of opioid prescriptions by one third over the next three years. Matt, thank you for your reporting this morning. Up next, were going to bring in your colleague, Michael Schmidt who broke that story of muellers team sending questions to trumps legal team as part of negotiations over an interview with the president , possibly causing a meltdown. Also ahead on morning joe, republicans have stayed silent for so long that even a one sentence Statement Issued by his spokesperson qualifies as a profile encourage in standing up to President Trump. Thats sad. Well talk more about the significance of that. Plus, how trump consultants exploited data from millions of facebook users, the fallout from a major breach that set the stage for the president s 2016 campaign. But first, bill karins with a check on more messy weather, bill. I dont want to talk snow anymore, mika. Im over it. Come on, dont. Even where you are in d. C. , we should be talking Cherry Blossoms and beautiful stuff like that. Its a messy, heavy wet snow. Areas outside of d. C. Could get significant snow. This is Severe Weather season in the south. This is expected this time of year. Today we have a chance of a few tornadoes. Heads up goes to nashville, chattanooga to birmingham and late in the evening towards atlanta including 19 Million People with tornadoes, damaging wind and hail. Then tomorrow, we bring the Severe Weather threat from orlando to Daytona Beach and charleston. Thats the warm portion of this storm. This storm is currently located in kansas. Roads are covered in snow in colorado around denver. Here we are with this mess around the coast. This looks to be another noreaster. Here is the snowfall forecast. Its middle of march. Were thinking this purple is 4 inches, the pink is 6, the red is 8. So from philadelphia towards d. C. , even new york city, the possibility someone will get 4 to 8 inches of heavy, wet snow tuesday and wednesday with the storm leaving by thursday. So well give you more details on that tomorrow as its going to be arriving and the timing on everything. Washington, d. C. Included, you have a chance for some snow out of this. I know youve been the snow hole all winter long. Youve gotten a lot less snow than everyone else. This is your opportunity. Arent you lucky . Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. You could simulate craftsmanship or you could experience it for real at the lexus command performance sales event. Lease the 2018 es 350 for 339 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Where were changing withs . Contemporary makeovers. Then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander with a double palm grab. Who has the upper hand now . Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com. When your stomach is all, oh yeah but your brain says, yeeeah. No. Well, no longer does watching what you eat mean being deprived of deliciousness. 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Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Well, as i said before, if he tried to do that, that would be the beginning of the end of his presidency because were a rule of law nation. When it comes to mr. Mueller, he is following the evidence where it takes him. And i think its very important he be allowed to do his job without interference and there are many republicans who share my view. I remain confident that the special counsel is going to conduct a probe that is fair and thorough and is going to arrive at the truth and is not going to go down rabbit holes that are not places that we need to be going. Talking to my colleagues all along, it was once he goes after mueller, then well take action. I think that people see that as a massive red line that cant be crossed. I dont see the president firing him. I think the white house has said ten times maybe more that they are not going to fire Robert Mueller. They want to be able to finish the investigation. What i read yesterday is what a typical attorney puts out at every stage during every investigation saying this is wrapped up. We should be done. Well, those were the usual suspects, the republicans we usually hear from on what would happen if trump were to fire special counsel bob mueller, which people are feeling he might be getting closer to. Republican john mccain also tweeted special counsel mueller has served our country with honesty and integrity. It is critical he be allowed to complete a thorough investigation into russias interference in the 2016 election unimpeded. But there has been relative silence from Republican Leadership on the issue. It took House Speaker paul ryan nearly a day and a half to issue a statement through a spokesperson that mueller and his team should be able to do their job. That he gave through a spokesperson. And Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnells office said they are not issuing a statement but pointed to earlier support for mueller. For every one republican who spoke out, there were dozens who did not. Well get to the implications of that but first lets run through how we got here with the president clearly testing his limits. We dont know all of the Details Behind Andrew Mccabes firing, we do know that President Trump publicly urged attorney Jeff Sessions to fire the 21 year fbi veteran before his full pension eligibility, tweeting about it five times just last year and then mccabes firing was issued late on a friday night with hours to go. Rushed ahead of an unreleased report, then the president took to twitter. On saturday writing this as the House Intelligence Committee has concluded, there was no collusion between russia and the Trump Campaign. That is not accurate. The Committee Republicans said they saw no evidence of collusion and could not investigate some collusion aspects because of the Mueller Probe. Trump added, as many are now finding out, there was tremendous leaking, lying and corruption at the highest levels of the fbi, justice and state. That routine attack on three vital institutions was met with no response from Republican Leadership, none. The president tied mccabes firing to donations to his wifes campaign, even though mccabe immediately disclosed that information and sought official guidance to avoid conflicts of interest. Trump tweeted the Mueller Probe should never have been started. There was no collusion and there was no crime. We note that the Mueller Probe started when the president fired james comey over the investigation of michael flynn, who is one of five people to plead guilty to crimes along with more than a dozen others who have been charged. Trump tweeted, it was based on fraudulent activities and a fake dossier paid for by crooked hillary and the dnc and improperly used in fisa court for surveillance of my campaign. We note that the investigation was based on George Papadopouloss attempts to connect russians with the campaign, timing even corroborated by the infamous nunes memo. Raw intelligence in the dossier was just one piece of evidence used for a fisa warrant on carter page a month after the Trump Campaign said he made to contribution to the campaign. Trump tweets why does the mueller team have 13 hardened democrats, some big crooked hillary supporters and zero republicans . As joe points out, donald trump has easily contributed more to Hillary Clinton, chuck schumer, rahm emanuel, the dnc and dozens of other democrats than everyone on muellers team combined. And of course the president ignores that Robert Mueller is a republican and so are many of the officials he attacks, including james comey and Andrew Mccabe. And yet, gop leadership have little or nothing to say as it continues to undercut the Justice Department and tests markets firing mueller. As New York Times Maggie Haberman framed it, trump has always seen what he can get away with and when there are no lasting consequences he presses on further. Right now he is testing what hill republicans will let him get away with regarding mueller. And so far there is silence from leadership. The point being republicans might want to step up at this time or we might find ourselves, John Heilemann, in a situation where the president tries to fire mueller. Is that fair to say looking at the patterns and the lies laid out that this president has participated in . Entirely fair to say. And i think its you run through those facts that you just did, mika, and especially you think about the context where David Ignatius made the right point which is that he was surprising that paul ryan even through a spokesperson pushed back on the question of bob muellers independence, but that really does accept a very lobar. Kasie made the right point, theres con tres between ryan and mcconnell. If you take the collective, just the collective silence of the Republican Leadership over the course of months, you take the collective silence of reagan republicans over months, worse in the house than in the senate but still pretty bad in the senate, its one of the Big Questions well ask when this is all over, however it ends, is what happened to the Republican Party in its belief in some of these institutions. The fbi is an institution for dekid decad decades, generations has been scorned for being too conservative and too much in the pocket of the Republican Party. Republicans are the traditional defenders of the fbi almost every score and yet for years ever since donald trump has come to town and started making the political attacks he has on the Justice Department and the fbi, suddenly republicans are, no, nothing to see here. Go ahead, attack the fbi with impuni impunity. Mike, you know a lot of people at the fbi and Justice Department. What do you make of all of this . I know bob mueller. Hes described as being a republican. But bob mueller is not a republican. Hes an american. Hes an american patriot. Hes neither a republican nor a democrat. You can look at his entire career. It has not been aimed at gaining riches, becoming famous. Its aimed at helping and assisting the country, our country, the United States of america. Josh earnest, i dont know about you, but the idea of the sitting president of the United States attacking by name, by name, a patriot, a guy involved in an independent investigation no matter the frills of how its being covered, political from the left or the right, is just aboar rant. It is. I actually tweeted about this over the weekend. The other data point about bob muellers credentials, in 2011, president obama was facing reelection and forced with this decision about who to appoint to take over the leadership of the fbi because bob muellers term was coming up. And president obama actually made a decision, he coordinated with republicans in congress to extend bob muellers term by two years so this decision would be made after the reelection campaign, so it wouldnt be tainted by politics. The decision to extend his term by two years was approved unanimously by every democrat and republican in the United States senate. Its a pretty good indication of how much respect bob mueller has had on capitol hill for a long time. Not just something so this isnt ancient history here, but we have seen that steadily eroded not just because of what President Trump says but because of what republicans in congress are willing to allow him to say without any putback. Kasie hunt. I think the test here for the Republican Party and republicans in congress is going to be at what point does this dam break. I say that because if you talk privately to these republicans, they will say its an acknowledgment about how they really feel about President Trump, if they were not doing what they were doing behind the scenes, if they were not building some trust with the president by not attacking him publicly regularly, everything would be worse. So much worse. And i think, you know, thats a theory of the case that ultimately could be proven to be basically a fraud. If the president essentially says i dont care anymore about whatever it is you happen to think, despite this relationship that we have built and we have seen the president do that repeatedly. Right. With people in his inner circle, but at the same time, they feel theyre in a political box on the other side as well. But to wrap up this segment, things really started to speed up over this weekend and you can feel it. You feel the pressure here in washington. And i think on the heels of it coming out friday morning that the president or the president s people threatened the porn star to stay silent, which several sources over the weekend told me is true and they told me who did it, you see this sort of unhinging of his president , his cavalier tweets, the corruption that appears to be happening inside the white house just to cover up so many Different Things. You get a sense that things are coming, i think, to a Tipping Point for the president. For as crazy fast this year has been, it feels like somebody is pushing the accelerator. He is hearing footsteps. He is anxious. Every tweet conveys anxiety. Absolutely. I could feel it happening as of friday morning. Speaking of anxiety, coming up, the president and that porn star, theres no longer any doubt that donald trump is the person on the other side of a nondisclosure agreement with Stormy Daniels. Now he apparently wants her to pay 1 million for every time she spoke about the alleged affair. Well have the revelations in a new legal file thats straight ahead. Much more ahead on morning joe. Oh, look. Another antiwrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. Neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® works in just one week. With the fastest retinol formula available. Its clinically proven to work on fine lines and wrinkles. One week . That definitely works rapid wrinkle repair®. And for dark spots, rapid tone repair. Neutrogena®. See whats possible. Whoamike and jen doyle . Than i thought. Yeah. Time for medicare, huh. I have no idea how were going to get through this. Follow me. Choosing a plan can be supercomplicated. But it doesnt have to be. Unitedhealthcare can guide you through the confusion, with helpful people, tools and plans. Including the only plans with the aarp name. Well that wasnt so bad at all. Thats how we like it. Aarp medicare plans, from unitedhealthcare. At t gives you more for your thing. Your getting serious thing. That moving out of the friend zone, moving in together and getting two of everything thing. Those fur babies preparing you for real babies thing. That one for me, one for you, us together for the rest of forever thing. Buy one iphone 8, get one iphone 8 on us. More for your thing. Thats our thing. Joining us now New York Times reporter Michael Schmidt. Michael, did the president freak out when he got the questions . Is that the bottom line of your reporting . I dont know if he freaked out as much as hes sort of feeling emboldened. The president is feeling increasingly comfortable where he is as the commander in chief. Hes sort of flexing his muscles a bit. This is more about that than it is about anger. And i think the president realizes finally the severity of this, how serious it is. And im not sure hes exactly going knows how to get out of it. He does hate firing people. I think he understands the costs that could come with getting rid of mueller. So tell us exactly what happened, the ticktock, of the questions and then the response to it. And is it possible he did not recognize the severity of this until now . Help me understand. Well, we think theyve had the questions for some time, but what were told is that on thursday we reported about a subpoena that had gone to the Trump Organization. And this raises the sort of longstanding questions about a red line that he has discussed, about whether it is okay for mueller to look into his finances and what that means. He had said over the summer if he looked into his finances beyond russia it would be crossing this. And were told that the president really did not like the idea of this subpoena. It was something that bothered him. Its not clear what he knew. Hes also sort of uneasy about his lawyers at this time. Hes considering bringing in emmitt flood, this veteran washington lawyer. He didnt tell john dowd that he was going to be meeting with flood and they didnt know until it came out in the press. So there is some turmoil going on behind the scenes. On top of that, john dowd is negotiating directly with muellers office about an interview. Dowd does not want the president to sit down with mueller. At the same time, hes been trying to hammer out a deal. He has to go back to the bargaining table today to continue to do that with an office he said on saturday should not exist. Mike barnacle. Letss talk about the dynamic of the president s legal representation, ty cobb, john dowd and the pending arrival of a third lawyer on the scene. How is that working out for a defense that becomes more critical seemingly with each hour of the day . Well, im not sure how well its working out. Ty cobbs job here is probably done in the sense that he was in charge of document production to mueller. The white house has largely completed that. The interviews with white house officials are largely over. That was what dowd that is what cobb was in charge of. Cobb had taken this perspective that he should do everything to cooperate with mueller and give him all the documents and the sooner they did that the sooner it would be over. The president realized that cobb saying oh this will be over by thanksgiving, oh, this will be over by christmas has obviously not turned out to be true and this thing is going to go on for a lot longer. The president has someone in john dowd who is willing to say the things that the president maybe doesnt have the guts to go as far enough to say himself. He has jay se cue low, a big outspoken person for him on the conservative media and now its the thought of whether hell bring in emmitt flood, really sort of the most schooled and experienced and top lawyer that he could have in this situation to take over his defense if this thing were to get more intense and be more problematic. Kasie hunt . Mike, can i ask you quickly about the memos that Andrew Mccabe reportedly has left behind. How would you describe and we know that the idea would be they would corroborate james comeys potential accounts. How significant do you think that is in the context of muellers probe . Well, it really depends on what it is that mccabe saw. If it is simply repeating what comey saw or stuff about the president deriding mccabes wife, obviously those arent great things for the president , but they sort of keep us where we are. Where they would be troubling is if they raise new questions about obstruction. If theres new things that the president did that he said to mccabe as it related to the investigation that raise concerns of whether he was trying to impede it. Thats where we would get into a problematic area. If they simply repeat the comey stuff and theyre more about the president sort of picking on mccabe while they may not be politically they may not look good, they legally would not be more problematic for the president , i dont think. The New York Times Michael Schmidt, thank you very much. Up next, facebook clearly has a problem with foreign actors, but thats just the start of it. Were going to break down the new revelations of a data breach affecting millions of americans. Morning joe will be right back. You tell your Insurance Company they made a mistake. The check they sent isnt enough to replace your totaled new car. The guy says they didnt make the mistake. You made the mistake. I beg your pardon . He says, you should have chosen fullcar replacement. Excuse me . Let me be frank, he says you picked the wrong insurance plan. no. I picked the wrong Insurance Company. with Liberty Mutual new car replacement™, well replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Hello. Give me an hour in tanning room 3. Cheers thats confident. But its not kayak confident. Kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to help me plan the best trip. So im more than confident. Forgot me goggles. Kayak. Search one and done. Shes noticing a real difference in her joint comfort. Karen shes single. And high levels of humiliation in her daughter. In just 7 days, your joint comfort can be your kids discomfort. Osteo biflex. Made to move. The latest victim was former fbi Deputy Director Andrew Mccabe who was fired two days before he was set to retire on his 50th birthday so he couldnt collect his full pension. Damn, man, thats cold. Even the joker is like you dont treat people like that. [ laughter ] i love that trump is being extra mean to the fbi guy whos definitely about to testify against him. Its like announcing to the whole restaurant that youre not tipping anyone before they make your food. All right, kasie hunt, before you go, were looking for more republicans to maybe show their face on some of these stories and perhaps give their thoughts in full view. Maybe you could sit outside paul ryans office and look for that profile in courage in person. Im sure he would love that. So much going on. We havent even talked about the perspective Government Shutdown or this Facebook Cambridge analytica story. Huge segment on that coming up. Are we headed to another shutdown . I hope not but ive been overly optimistic, like, twice now on Government Shutdown watches. They made a deal. Its not as though theres an appetite for a shutdown. Wasnt this off the table . Sort of. They still passed a continuing resolution while all of the lawyers sat behind closed doors, wrote the bill. Theres a lot of details you described as speed bumps. Thats an accurate way of talking about it. The bill is supposed to come out today and then ideally will pass through both chambers of congress. In this era, especially with all of this bob mueller situation hanging out there, im out of the prediction business. Okay. Thats probably a good call. Kasie hunt, thank you very much. Up next, the president attacks Robert Mueller by name with one Top Republican telling the president s lawyer if your client is innocent, act like it. The New York Timess peter baker joins with us his new reporting. And from the House Intelligence Committee, democratic congressman jim himes who says its time for congress to prepare for muellers firing. Morning joe is coming right back. If you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,. With reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Tell your doctor if these occur. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. 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It is part of the process by which they want to muzzle my client. So that is the attorney for Stormy Daniels, the porn star. He broke some major news here on morning joe late last week and now hes reacting to reports that trumps legal team is pulling out all the stops in an effort to keep the details of their alleged affair and the subsequent threats against the porn star off the front pages. Were going to have more on that case coming up and what weve been hearing over the weekend is that these threats happened while trump was president that could be a big problem. With us, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. National Affairs Analyst for nbc news and msnbc John Heilemann. Former White House Press secretary to president obama josh earnest and columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius. Former Justice Department spokesman matthew miller. And washington anchor for bbc world news America Katty Kay and chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times, peter baker. And, yes, theres more. Professor of history at tulane university, walter isaacson. Joe is off this morning. This is how many people it takes to fill in for joe. It takes all of us. We dont have enough. Well start with the firing of former fbi director Andrew Mccabe. The president now raising doubts about whether mccabe kept personal notes about their oval office meetings. Two people familiar with the case tell the Washington Post that mccabe memorialized his interactions with the president in memos which, if true, could become key pieces of evidence in Robert Muellers russia probe. On sunday morning, the president lashed out at the report tweeting spent very little time with Andrew Mccabe but he never took notes when he was with me. I dont believe he made memos except to help his own agenda. Probably at a later date. Same with lying james comey. Can we call them fake memos . Hours later, a lawyer for Andrew Mccabe tweeted we will not be responding to each childish, defamatory, disgusting and false tweet by the president. The whole truth will come out in due course, but the tweets confirm that he has corrupted the entire process that led to mr. Mccabes termination and has rendered it illegitimate. Doesnt it also seem like hes trying to impede the process . Just asking. Attorney general Jeff Sessions announced mccabes firing around 10 00 p. M. Friday night, about 24 hours before he was set to retire. According to axios, mccabe was informed of his dismissal just nine minutes before the news was released to the media. Thats better than Rex Tillerson. He should be happy. Before his firing, mccabe told politico his work on the fbis russia probe is what sparked a Smear Campaign against him. He said i firmly believe that this is an ongoing effort to undermine my credibility because of the work that i did on the russia case because of the investigations that i oversaw and impacted that targets this administration. He went on to say they have every reason to believe that i could end up being a significant witness in whatever the special counsel comes up with and so they are trying to create this counternarrative that i am not someone who can be believed or truste trusted. David ignatius, are they tearing him down . It appears that this is whats happening on a number of levels, on the part of the president tearing down the credibility of people saying theyre not republicans or at least not noticing the fact that they are a part of his party or or accusing them of being democrats, but the point is to tear down the credibility of all people involved with anything pertaining to anything that might look into this president which leads one to believe that this is authoritarian behavior or the making of one. Or just the behavior of someone who feels cornered by an increasingly serious legal investigation. Every time a witness arises, we do see the president trying to undercut what the witness might say. So if you look at what i think is the center line here, its that Andrew Mccabe has testified before Robert Muellers special counsel and we know he has memos he prepared contemporaneously supporting allegations that have been made by james comey, the former fbi director. And what were seeing now is a backandforth trying to discredit the evidence that has already been given to mueller in the form of those memos where the president is like, well, memos, i didnt see him writing memos, maybe he wrote them afterwards. But the point is this is an argument about evidence being presented to a special counsel who has extraordinary powers of subpoena and i just see the president ry a reacting as a defendant who feels cornered. I expected the behavior of this president in terms of the patterns and in terms of the stories that tend to get to him to heat up after friday morning when the revelations of the threat to the porn star started to percolate in the news. But lets lay this out, its incredibly important. President trump celebrated the firing of a veteran fbi agent just after midnight on saturday. Andrew mccabe fired. A great day for the hardworking men and women of the fbi. A great day for democracy. Sanctimonious james comey and his boss made mccabe look like a choir boy. He knew all about the lies and corruption going on at the highest levels of the fbi. Earlier trump put it in writing that he wanted to see mccabe suffer financially tweeting in december fbi Deputy Director Andrew Mccabe is racing the clock to retire with full benefits. 90 days to go. That was one of the many attacks focused on mccabe and money. He tweeted last summer why didnt a. G. Sessions replace acting fbi director Andrew Mccabe, a comey friend who was in charge of the clinton investigation but got big dollars, 700,000, for his wifes political run from Hillary Clinton and her representatives. Trump also insinuated that mccabe pocketed campaign contributions. This is incredible. Keep all that in mind when you consider the reaction to mccabes firing by a former cia director, michael hayden. He tweeted this i have no window into the objective merits of the mccabe case and therefore i cannot judge that, although mccabe had a stellar reputation. I cant say, however, if this were conducted under the rules that pertain to military justice, it would have been thrown out because of what we call undue command influence. The president s frequent and visible comments and pressure on doj would have prompted a military judge to dismiss this as hopelessly tainted. Matt miller, where to begin. Is the president impeding the process . What is he doing with these tweets . How can you characterize this legally as perhaps potentially very destructive. I think david is right. You can smell the fear in the president s tweets over the weekend. Especially tweet where he found out Andrew Mccabe kept memos like james comey did. What the president said is reprehensible. Mccabe may have made mistakes. Discipline may have been appropriate. I put faith in people who put in recommendations that some disciplinary action be implemented. But the role of the attorney general in this makes no sense Jeff Sessions was recused from the underlying case that mccabe has been disciplined for and, of course, he himself has been under great pressure by the president to move on a number of fronts, including to fire mcc e mccabe. Sessions should have recused himself from the beginning. This shows why the process was so rushed. Why mccabe wasnt allowed to retire as happens in other cases. Why this disciplinary action was issued before the Inspector General report came out which is not the way it usually occurs at doj. You can see the president s actions before happened and attorney general worried about his tenure, worried about his status and trying to impress a president , doing so by firing a career agent. Mike barnicle, jump in. General hayden and matthew are correct in their assessment of this i dont know whether andy mccabe is guilty of an enfraction or not. I do know as with any company, any corporation, any entity, he had people below him who did not like him. That happens. I dont know what role that played into it. But the level of vindictiveness, walter, in the behavior, the actions of the president of the United States toward a federal official, a 21year veteran of the fbi who has done exemplary work over those 21 years. I dont know any frame of reference. The frame of reference is nixon because im reading a book about nixon, ford, rumsfeld and those years and watching now nixon got so personally vindictive that he obstructed justice. Do you ever in your memory, in your coverage of nixon, your writing about history, do you ever recall even richard nixon, though, going after someones wife . Andy mccabe is the acting fbi director in the oval office and the president is alleged to have said how does it feel for your wife to be a loser . Ive met with andy mccabe, hes been involved in our project at the aspen institute. Decent, straight guy. This is not somebody that the president of the United States hes a career Civil Servant should be reaching down and doing something for personal vindictive reasons and then doing a very Donald Trumplike thing, hes doing it for the money, thats why he wants his retirement. Well, yeah, he wants his retirement because hes been a career Civil Servant for years unlike donald trump. Ive listened to you talk about Donald Trumps vindictiveness, ive listened to David Ignatius and matt miller talking about the degree to which donald trump is feeling nervous, backed into a corner, feeling edgy and defensive then i read in the New York Times, peter baker, your colleague Maggie Habermans excellent piece saying donald trump is emboldened, more comfortablcomfo i dont allow the possibility that these two visions of trump are reconcilable but if they are reconcilable, id like to have you reconcile them for me. On the surface, its hard to imagine a president both backed into a corner and lashing out defensively and also feeling hyperconfident and newly emboldened in his job. You can be emboldened in your anger, right . The truth is that what maggie is talking about is a president who is 13, 14 months into his presidency and casting aside people like Rex Tillerson, people like gary cohn, he may be casting aside people like h. R. Mcmaster, john kelly, we dont know. Part of that is because he no longer feels quite so dependent on them. He no longer feels like he needs people like that to guide him. That doesnt mean hes not also angry and feeling cornered on the investigation. It means he is feeling his oats and taking action. He may take action in the same vein against Robert Mueller in some way. Hed need to get Rod Rosenstein or somebody else to fire him at the Justice Department, not an easy thing, but thats one of the things people were worried about over the weekend is a president s who is no longer feeling quite so constrained, might act on impulses he has which is the Mueller Investigation is illegitimate, has gone on too long and therefore he might take action. You heard Lindsey Graham say this would be the beginning of the end of his presidency. You heard trey gowdy say if youre innocent, act like it, because they see a president on the verge of making what they think would be a big mistake. Let me stay with you and ask you a question that comes out of stuff we were discussing earlier and matthew millers comments about Jeff Sessions. Session is supposed to be recused from not just the russia piece of the Mueller Investigation but anything that touches on the campaign because of his involvement in the campaign, so anything related to trump or clinton and so by any normal reading of that he should not have been in a position to make a final determination about whether mccabe should have been fired or not so i accept matt millers assessment that sessions is trying to create favor with trump or that he solved this as a litmus test but how does he get away with making this ruling under the terms of his recusal . Thats the one thing thats soured his relationship with President Trump now. President trump made very clear that he is angry that Jeff Sessions recused himself in the beginning from the investigation. Thats been a public barrage of messages from this president going back now eight, nine months and so if Jeff Sessions looked at this and found he could make a determination in his own mind that this didnt count under the recusal, as he said. Im not saying should or shouldnt, isnt really an arbitor here what says this counts, this doesnt. Its a selfimposed decision on his part. He decided he would do this because he recognized if he didnt that would increase the president s anger at him. Look, watching the patterns of this president and this white house and even the behavior of the president before he became the commanderinchief over the past decade. You get a sense, catty, that he fires back any way he can, he makes up things, throws mud against the wall to see what sticks but the patterns all point to he might fire mueller. Are republicans lined up to combat this in a way that can be effective . I feel like paul ryans little piece of paper he put out through a spokesperson is not a profile in courage. This could be a constitutional crisis. Yeah, i think at the moment the republicans are not and youre right, ryan not even going on camera himself, this was a weak move sending it to an underling. If mueller were to be fired i suspect you would see more republicans come on board and say that was the wrong thing to do at this point it would be too late. What we have learned and youre right about donald trump through the years, is that he views the board through the prism of win lose. If Andrew Mccabe is getting his pension, thats a win for Andrew Mccabe therefore it must be a lose for donald trump. Especially about mump. Trump is obsessed with money. And he has these two storm clouds over him which were about to get to. And he has the mueller storm cloud. Everyone said i cant do this, i dont that and there would be catastrophic consequences if i do x or y, the catastrophe hasnt happened so he may be starting to think everybody says i cant fire mueller but maybe i can. Im going to take a leap. I think were being incredibly naive if thats not what hes planning. Can he fire him . He can. He might have to fire someone to do it. Would firing him stop the investigation . It depends on what the then standing official at doj whether its a new attorney general, new Deputy Attorney general does. But a new attorney general, a new Deputy Attorney general could close down the investigation and firing mueller is not the only way for him to accomplish this. He could fire Jeff Sessions, replace whim a new attorney general whos not recused, a sitting official and not even go through the confirmation process as an acting official and that person could decline to approve new charges, could mueller you cant indict new people, stop asking for an interview with the president and shut it down. David, real quick. Heres what we should be focusing on after this tumultuous weekend. What are members of congress doing to prepare for the possibility trump would move to fire mueller, to protect the authority of the special counsel if not mueller somebody else. Theres legislation in draft that would reactivate the independent counsel statute so judges would appoint a new special counsel. So wed have confidence that this investigation would continue. Thats when well know the republicans are serious, when they say im going to support the legislation thats been drafted and this legislation will protect the mueller function investigation until they do that. I mean, i think were just guessing. Your point so ryan has a spokesman issue a piece of paper. Fair enough. But the minute people say heres our plan, if muellers fired this goes into action then we know its serious. Walter isaacson, what do you think . I think david is exactly right. Im stunned and i think history will judge very harshly the fact that the leaders in congress especially the Republican Leadership havent stepped up and said heres where the line is, heres what will happen if this happens. It would help stop what will be a constitutional crisis if they said this is what can happen. Graham is one of the few that have done it and i think those who right history will really be appalled at the way republicans have cowered on this instead have been clear about what would happen. So lets add to this. Donald trumps legal battle with porn star Stormy Daniels. The president and his legal team filed paperwork on friday which claims the former porn star is on the hook for 20 million for violating a nondisclosure agreement she signed 11 days before the election. Thats a Million Dollars for each alleged breach. Stormy daniels legal name is stephanie clifford. Shes suing trump for the right to share her story about an alleged affair and possibly threats which the president denies the affair. Cliffords lawyer tweeted how can President Donald Trump seek 20 million in damages against my client based on agreement he and mr. Cohen claim mr. Trump never was a party to and knew nothing about . Apparently he didnt sign it, either. Hashtag not well thought out, hashtag sloppy, hashtag check mate. Fridays filing moved the case from state court to federal court, a move that experts say would push the dispute into arbitration and out of the public eye. Other revelations, the president has a new attorney on the case, charles harter, the same lawyer who won the 140 million verdict for hulk hogan against gawker and for the first time trump acknowledged that he is, in fact, david denison, the alias used in the Stormy Daniels nondisclosure agreement. Katty kay rp is how she was threatened, where she was threatened. The funny thing is i dont know if funny is the right word but this could end up having more damage to this president more immediately than the ongoing cases. With trump there seems to be a pattern that when there is a question of evidence, memos, texts, photographs potentially being produced thats when he gets nervous and thats what happened during last week, the story came out that Stormy Daniels may have texts and photographs, whatever it is, r from the course of their relationship. The threats to her physical wellbeing come from before that but whilst the president was in office in the white house and on top of that potential legal issue there is the issue of whether there was fraudulent Campaign Finance because it was never declared, this 130,000 paid off to her. No wonder the president is feeling under pressure. This could be a serious legal issue and if the pictures come out from their relationship, as we have found with al franken, pictures are powerful in these cases. Peter baker, whats confusing to me is the president has never really cared if anybody thought he had had some sort of transgression with someone. I dont know how to say it. Hes proud of himself or doesnt care. So what would make him care so deeply about this that attorneys would be pushing back and potential threats would be flying. What is it about this case that is so damning . This president likes to control his narrative and likes to control the people around him. What was it we saw in the Washington Post that he tried to get people working in the white house to sign nondisclosure agreements. Thats not normal for a government office. Thats something that President Trump was prolific in requiring his employees to do what he was in private business. His lawyer had her sign a nondisclosure agreement and the idea she is now trying to break out of it offends his sense of control that he wants the story be told on his terms, not somebody elses. Or that theres something to hide. Something tangible. Something you can see. Something that would be terribly humiliating in some way. Because he could just say it didnt happen. Hes done that before. As he does with other women. This is different than the other women. Just says didnt happen. Shes lying. So there must be proof, there must be something incredibly tangible. Well, the specifics of the story as we already know them to be or at least the allegation to be was that this was happen when melania was pregnant and having a new baby. Its a sensitive time in a marriage. You can imagine this is a particularly sensitive issue in his household so it may be she has something to say we dont know or has proof we dont know but even the discussion i cant imagine being quite sensitive in at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. David, really quick. Im struck by the fact that this is the first real test case of these nondisclosure agreements. The president s surrounded by them and holding the line on this one. Holding the line matters to him not just because of whats in this case but all the other ones out there. Apparently the president had a lot of nondisclosure agreements. Well talk about that coming up. But walter isaacson, youre a professor of history. Put this into context for us . One of the things happening now in history is weve been so divided and partisan that people dont do even what was happening during the nixon years where republicans and democrats were working together 40toweigh how serious things were. For example, if you do the counterthought, which is what would happen if barack obama were trying to silence and threaten a stripper and will be investigated for colluding possibly with russia and was trying to shut down the information. Obviously republicans will be going ballistic and now if you read michael gersons story tin the the atlantic, the evangelical right has found all sorts of ways to defend things like Stormy Daniels and i think it just shows that our moral sensibilities have been polluted by our partisan divisiveness. Walter, thank you very much. Katty kay, matt miller, stay with us. Still ahead on morning joe, new revelations show millions of facebook users had their personal data compromised for political purposes. 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With the fastest retinol formula to visibly reduce wrinkles. Neutrogena®. Steve wanted weapons for his culture war. Thats what he wanted. And we we offered him a way to accomplish what he wanted to do, which was change the culture of america. That is whistleblower christoph Christopher Wylie referencing Cambridge Analytica. The piece in the New York Times says the data firm, Cambridge Analytica, which was tapped by President Trumps 2016 campaign harvested from more than 50 million facebook profiles to influence voters without the knowledge of those users joining us from the guardian, carol catwalder, a reporter who revealed how the data was exploited for millions of facebook users, and she profiles the whistleblower at the heart of the controversy. Whats the lead . Is the it the Trump Campaign angle or the facebook angle . I think the facebook angle because theyve been trying to deny responsibility. They knew about the data breach two years ago that 50 Million Peoples personal information was being used to politically target them. On friday they threatened to sue us to stop the guardian publishing. They were pushing back saying this is not a data breach and theres nothing to see here. Were clear about it, it is a data breach. Chr chr whats at stake here . A vast trove of personal information to be used in way which is people cant see and dont understand. Christoph facebook executives were questioned in the u. S. By congressional investigators and in the uk by mps chrand they we asked direct questions, does Cambridge Analytica have facebook data . And they said no. And that is a huge scandal and i think they need to step up and start answering questions now. I had a question about Mark Zuckerberg exactly. It was notable when facebook came and testified to the United States Congress Earlier last year it was the general counsel that testified, not zuckerberg. Is there any push for Mark Zuckerberg to have to appear before a Parliamentary Committee . There is. They fielded an executive and he weaseled out of straight answers. Mark zuckerberg needs to show leadership, frankly, and acknowledge the fact that his platform Robert Mueller has said his platform was an arena for information warfare. Thats literally what he said and what we have discovered with this huge amount of data that was repurposed and hijacked in this way that this is potentially the start of it and i as i say, the whole way that facebook has denied and denied and denied until its forced into a position, as it was this weekend and then suddenly said, oh, yes, okay maybe theres a problem and they suspended Cambridge Analytica from their platform. Its not good enough. And i think im sure u. S. Voters are starting to realize that and asking questions. David ignatius . Its a terrific piece of reporting and i want to ask you two things about it. Is this data from 50 Million People taken from facebook, would that have been enough to shape the election in a significant way according to your political sources . And then theres this hint in your reporting that facebook data may have been used in the brexit battle in britain to steer shape opinion. Tell us about those two. Well, youve picked up on something important there because this is absolutely transatlantic because this is how i came to it initially. I was investigating Cambridge Analyticas role in brexit and i wrote about that in february last year and that kicked off two investigations which is still ongoing about what the firm did during the european referendum. Then i discovered this amazing young man, Christopher Wylie, whos gone on record over the weekend and its taken us a year to get him over the line and he has the paper trail, he has the documents and receipts and contracts so this thing which kept facebook have just denied for two years, he was able to come forward and say i can prove this, so we dont know how this data was used during Trumps Campaign because everybodys denied it. Cambridge analytica denied it had that data. Facebook denied it had that data so were only at the starting points of being able to ask questions about this. But my colleagues at the New York Times, they saw the data last week and this was the kind of amazing breakthrough. Because of the legal sensitivities, i couldnt see it but through some means i cannot tell you about they saw the data and it was only then that facebook started taking this seriously and started responding. Katty kay . Carol, i wanted you to connect the dots for us from Robert Mercer who put 15 million into Cambridge Analytica, steve bannon and the Trump Campaign. How closely were all of these entities working together in order to benefit the Trump Campaign . I think this is the data of like a third of all American Voters. How closely were they working together for the Trump Campaign . Theres a kind of fascinating detail which hasnt come out yet really which is that so Robert Mercer, he was the investor into Cambridge Analytica and steve bannon was the Vice President of Cambridge Analytica and it was Robert Mercer who when steve bannon started working for the Trump Campaign that was Cambridge Analytica got brought on to the Trump Campaign and this was a key moment. That happened in august and it was only in august, a few days before that Cambridge Analytica wrote their lawyers sorry, facebooks lawyers wrote to Christopher Wylie and said, oh, by the way, have you still got the data . Can you tick a box and tell us that youve deleted it . So theres key timings going on here but it was only when Cambridge Analytica started were brought on so steve bannon was brought on to work with trump that facebook suddenly thought, oh, there may be some issue here now and took efforts to try and secure the data. But the efforts they went to are so pathetic. Christopher says they literally sent him a form and said tick a box and tell us that youve deleted it and did nothing else to ensure it had been. Carol cadwallader, thank you so much. Joining us now, jim himes from connecticut. Congressman, im going to read one of your tweets from saturday to start things off here. As real donald trump floats around in his snow globe of chaos, crassness and corruption, its time for every member of congress to prepare to create a statutory special prosecutor if mueller is fired. Do you feel every member of congress is ready for . Far from it, mika. The reality is, we have heard from the usual suspects from the flake and mccain and a couple of others about the importance of preserving muellers investigation but the vast majority of republicans arent going to touch this with a tenfoot pole. We even have probably the one opportunity that we have in the remainder of the year to get a special prosecutor set up with statutory authority, that is to say not fireable by the president of the United States in the form of the omnibus budget which will be voted on this week. It could be put into that. It would be interesting to see if it were put into that because i think on that basis alone any number of republicans would be flushed out for not wanting to cross this president in that way. Mike . Congressman, let me ask you. Off couple things going on were talking about. One is the dally damage being done to the institution of the presidency. The other is this latest element of the story, facebooks involvement in the election last year. We dont know the extent of it yet. But its clearly par usually being funded by invisible billionaires like Robert Mercer. Talk about the damage being done by things like Cambridge Analytica to facebook to the American Voter and what will be done about it if anything in the congress of the United States. Its a great question, mike. I think focusing on the voter is the right way to go. What i mean by that is its up to every american to remember that the president involved in litigation with a porn star. The president calling a phone potential adversary names on twitter. The president doing everything the president does everyday. Thats not normal. The problem is the american electorate, the american citizenry gets used to this to a point where we think, gosh, we may go to war with north korea, thats just wednesday morning news. We need to maintain a sense of what the presidency and our government used to be. With respect the facebook, ive been thinking about this. Facebook in my opinion acted very badly in owning up to this and engaging with authorities, engaging with journalists but theres a role for the American People, for people generally here, too, which is, folks, youre putting this stuff up on facebook to begin with and it may be true that Facebook Says theyre going to protect you but facebook and any other web site is hackable so people need to republican as they put this stuff up they make it available to people like the mersers and steve bannon to use for ill effect. We need to remember that. Lets stay with the facebook question because youre the republicans on your panel, on the House Intelligence Committee, put out a report that said, hey, no collusion here. Were looking at reports by the guardian, by the observer in the uk and the New York Times, this looks i dont think these reports prove collusion in any way but if you take these reports about how the connections between Cambridge Analytica, steve bannon, the kushner operation within the Trump Campaign, you take those reports and combine them with what bob mueller already said by issuing indictments against the Research Agency and so on, theres an awful lot of smoke there that at least opens up a vast expense of area that if you wanted to investigate collusion you could investigate collusion. Yet your colleagues, republican colleagues on the House Intelligence Committee have effectively said i know they are claiming they can issue a new report at some point in the future but said there is no collusion here, giving trump a talking point. Please address this matter. It seems incredibly important. To be fair to the republicans on the committee, they have not said they absolutely have not said there was no collusion. They said we saw no evidence of collusion and mike conway, very decent guy, said that. Now the president seized on that to say there is no collusion. But they are doing the president s bying. No question. I understand they can make that distinction but they know what the president is going do with their carefullyworded conclusion. No question at all. Were going to push to have the transcripts of the many interviews released because the republican questioning always consisted of this, looking at the witness and saying and i kid you not, did you collude with the russians . Did you see anybody colluding with the russians . Did you cooperate . Did you see anybody . No, no, no. Okay, end of story. Thats not an investigation but its important to remember that what matters here is what the American People see in this report and in those transcripts. Within this facebook story theres an important element. Its a free country, you can spend your money any way you want, i get that but there are billionaires like the mercers literally trying to purchase a new government. What do we do about that . Mike, this goes back well before facebook and manipulating data. Since Citizens United the mercers can write a 50 million check to elect the a senator, congressman, or president. In the state of connecticut, we watched the current administrator of the Small Business administration spend 100 million in two senate races. Now, she lost both of those races and now shes the administrator of the Small Business administration but my point is its not just about buying data on facebook, its about people capable of doing it spending tens of millions of dollars to influence our politics, i get the First Amendment arguments. I bet if Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson were sitting here they would not have wanted to create a system where enormously wealthy people had that influence on our democracy. Josh earnest, jump in. Congressman, its josh earnest here. I want to press youing s inon sg you raised earlier, including statutory protection for Robert Mueller in the omnibus bill that has to be passed before the end of the week. I think we can predict how republicans respond to that idea. Im interestinged in hearing how your fellow democrats have responded to the idea. Is there an appetite for a fight on this . Democrats have a rare point of leverage here. We know there are strong conservative opposition on the spending bill, theyll need democratic votes to pass this. Are there democrats willing to withhold the votes unless the statutory protection for mr. Mueller is included in the legislation . Thats a great question. The chief obstacle to a statutory special prosecutor in the omnibus is, in fact, the republicans because you would find almost no support for that. But you make a very important point. There are a lot of democrats who would say hey, lets not do what we did four weeks ago which is give people the hope that, for example, were going to shut down the government or make it looks like the president is shutting down the government because he doesnt do what he said he would do for the dreamers, on the daca fix. That didnt work that last time around. One of the things i keep urging my fellow democrats to do and its hard to do because dreamers are important, because bob mueller is so important this is a political statement, in the areas where democrats need to win, where we dont win, pennsylvania being the fun exception, people are sitting around a Kitchen Table with economic anxieties, how do i retire . How do i educate my kids . Are my wages going to go up . We need to not lose sight of the necessity of Offering Solutions along those lines and every time we go to russia, a lot of people care about that stuff but its not addressing the Kitchen Table a anxieties of american families. Congressman jim himes, thank you for being on this morning. Coming up, Vladimir Putin cruises to victory in a reelection effort that was never in doubt. What will the russian strongman do with his new sixyear mandate . Well talk to former u. S. Ambassador Michael Mcfaul whos been black listed by the kremlin. Morning joe is coming right back. Bp is taking safety to new heights. Using drones and robots offshore so engineers can stop potential problems before they start. Because safety is never being satisfied and always working to be better. vo is ahhhmazing ful simple goodness meaty morsels. A tender texture. With real meat and a blend of peas and carrots i can see. A totally new kind of awesome going on here avo new beneful simple goodness. Tender, meaty morsels with real ingredients you can see. Feet go here. You know what goes here. And your approval rating. Goes here. Test drive the ztrak z540r at your john deere dealer and learn why its not how fast you mow, its how well you mow fast. Nothing runs like a deere. Save 250 dollars when you test drive and buy a john deere residential z540r ztrak mower. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Still ahead, we know Robert Mueller has subpoenaed the Trump Organization for documents, but what exactly is the russia connection there . Well bring in one of the New York Times reporters whos trying to connect the dots. Moij is coming right back. As retools around washington, who does he think about . The wall street millionaires that ryan gave billions in tax breaks as ryan shifted the burden onto the middle class and kicked millions off healthcare . Or maybe he just thinks about this guy and all his fancy perks. Whoever speaker ryan thinks about, it probably isnt you. House majority pac is responsible for the content of this advertising. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. Toilet . Because i got some are you okay . Im im fine. I just its just crazy how one day youre the ceo of exxon of 50 billion company, and the next day you get fired by a man who used to sell steaks in the mail. Rex tillerson, obviously still processing this. Were all still processing. Were in a constant state of processing. Caddie kay, we havent even mentioned that Rex Tillerson, the secretary of state, was fired and apparently according to chief of staff john kelly, the description of how that went down, its all unbelievable. Im not saying it on television. Where does the level of humiliation in this administration stop . How low can we go . In terms of people not just being fired, then we have to be told the details of where Rex Tillerson was physically sitting when he was actually tired. Why do they have to why does swraun kelly have to put that out there . Why . I dont know, but we have no secretary of state and we have a state department that is barren. And i dont think anyone who those mike pompeo thinks that his mission is to suddenly come in and put in a whole load of ambassadors and i disagree. You think he will . I hate to sound hopeful, but i think theres some easy fixes at state that pompeo will adopt. Thank you very much. Much more reaction to the president lashing out at bob mueller, sparking concerns of whether he plans to fire the special counsel. And trump goes back and forth with a lawyer, a form onner deputy fbi director Andrew Mccabe even though Jeff Sessions is the one who supposedly fired him. We have a packed 8 00 a. M. Hour ahead. Were back live in just three minutes. Im very proud of the fact that i served. I was a c130 mechanic in the corps, so im not happy unless my hands are dirty. Between running a business and four kids, were busy. Auto insurance, homeowners insurance, Life Insurance policies. Knowing that usaa will always have my back. Thats just one less thing you have to worry about. I couldnt imagine going anywhere else. Theyre like a friend of the family. We are the cochran family, and well be usaa members for life. Save by bundling usaa home and auto insurance. Get a quote today. Brushing only reaches 25 of your mouth. Listerine® cleans virtually 100 . Helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. Never settle for 25 . Always go for 100. Bring out the bold™ we the people. Are defined by the things we share. And the ones we love. Who never stop wondering what well do or where well go next. We the people who are Better Together than we are alone. Are unstoppable. Welcome to the entirely new expedition. The man who is in charge of the investigation of Hillary Clinton accepted essentially from Hillary Clinton 675,000. That went to his wife. Never happened before. Never happened. Not in this countrys history. In do you regret having him a your acting fbi director, then . You know what . I keep out of it. Thats the way it fell. Hes been there. Its one of those things. But he was the star of many of my speeches. Because he got from five to 700,000, whatever the number was. Got that money for the wife. Did you ask him who he voted for . In virginia, you dont have to spend the money. So i never checked as to whether or not they spent the money on the campaign. How much of the money did he spend on the campaign . Just some of the many times President Trump has insinuated that veteran fbi agent Andrew Mccabe pocketed campaign contributions. Now the president is celebrating mccabes firing, quote, Andrew Mccabe fired. A great day for the hard working men and women of the fbi. A great day for democracy. Sanctimonius james comey was his boss and made mccabe look like a choir boy. He knew all about the lies and corruption going on at the highest levels of the fbi. Earlier, trump put it in writing that he wanted to see mccabe suffer financially, tweeting in december fbi Deputy Director Andrew Mccabe is racing the clock to retire with full benefits. 90 days to go. That was one of many attacks focused on mccabe and money. He tweeted last summer, why didnt ag sessions replace acting fbi director Andrew Mccabe, a comey friend who was in charge of clinton investigation, but got big dollars, 700,000, for his wifes political run from Hillary Clinton and her representatives. Welcome back to morning joe. It is monday, march 19th. With us, we have msnbc contributor Mike Barnacle, john heilman, David Ignatius, heidi prisbella, benjamin wittis, and neal katiele. Joe is off this morning. We have a lot of questions. Neal, i just want to start with the big one for you. In your view, is america on the verge of a constitutional crisis . I think we are looking at it. The one thing you can say about donald trump is the guy thinks big, huge. First, firing the guy accused of investigating him about russia, jim comey, then firing his deputy, mccabe, who is a witness in it, not implementing sanctions on russia, lying to our allies and bragging about it, about things about trade, now evidently hes saying that his white house employees have to sign ndas like porn stars that are involved with him. This is unprecedented behavior. It makes nixon frankly look small by comparison. And you wonder which of these stories is going to be the to make him topple. Or one we heard heard about. You had a tweet storm. You dont usually tweet, but over the weekend, you felt the theyd. Neal said, the one thing about litigating with trump, the guy becomes your cocounsel once he gets near the phone and tweets. Hes not capable of keeping his lies straight and giving away the game. No doubt, mueller benefits from the same. Are you concerned that he will try and fire mueller at this point and is donald trump the best cocounsel in a games against trump . Im sitting next to somebody who has actually litigated against trump, which i have never done. If you are not concerned about the fate of mueller, youre not reading the newspaper every day. I think there would be substantial impediments to firing bob mueller, but that said, you cant wake up every morning and read the newspaper and not be concerned about the integrity of this investigation, given the repeated efforts of the president to corrupt it. I would think at this point we would really want to hear from republicans on this, knowing this president , knowing him well from long before he became president. His patterns all point to he does what everyone says he cant do, which would be to fire mueller. Last night, the white house faulted the media for questioning whether President Trump will fire special counsel Robert Mueller. After the president and one of his top lawyers offered unprompted criticism of mueller this weekend. Aa mid a string of tweets about the dismissal of Andrew Mccabe, a potential witness in the Mueller Probe just hours before his full pension eligibility, President Trump issued his first tweets specifically attacking mueller by name. Quote, the Mueller Probe should never have been started in that there was no collusion and there was no crime. It was based on fraudulent activities and a fake dossier paid for by crooked hillary and the dnc and improperly used in fisa court for surveillance of my campaign. Witch opportunity. Why does the mueller team this is the president tweeting over the weekend, think about this. Have 13 hardened democrats, some big crooked hillary supporters and zero republicans. Thats wrong. Another dem recently added does anyone think this is fair. The president falsely claimed the probe was based on the dossier, used by the fisa court and falsely claims there are zero republican owes muellers team. Those were among many other falsehoods and exaggerations leveled this weekends by the president of the United States. In a statement, the president s special counsel, ty cobb, said in response to media speculation and related questions being posed to the administration, the white house yet again confirms that the president is not considering or discussing the firing of the special counsel Robert Mueller. This as new pressure on the president and his lawyers appeared to have led to these new attacks. The New York Times reports the president s tweets came as mueller is said to have sent questions to trumps legal team as part of negotiations over an interview with the president. So they solve the questions and perhaps reacted angrily. And after reports that mueller subpoenaed the Trump Organization demanding documents about russia, on saturday, trumps outside counsel, john dowd, told the daily beast i pray that acting attorney general he rosenstein will poll the brilliant and courageous example of the fbi office of professional responsibility and attorney general Jeff Sessions and bring an end to alleged Russia Collusion Investigation manufactured by mccabes boss, james comey, based upon a froou fraudly ewe lent and corruption dossier. When asked initially if he was speaking on behalf of the president , he answered yes, as his coup. After publication of the story, dowd emailed to say he was speaking in his personal capacity and not on the president s behalf. Republican chairman of the house Oversight Committee trey gowdy had this to say. If you have an innocent client, mr. Had dowd, act like it. Russia attacked our country. Let special counsel mueller figure that out. If you believe, as we found, there is no evidence of collusion, you should want special counsel mueller to take all the time and have all the independence he needs to do his job. This is, David Ignatius, ben. I want to put a question to you. You have written that youre friendly with james comey, the former fbi director. Comey has a book coming out in a month. If there is anybody who has a sense of whats likely to be in that book, it would be ben khittis. Gives the flavor of what you think comey may say in this memoir. I have so glad you asked that question. I have no idea. I have not read the book. And i wouldnt actually want to speculate about whats in it. Jim is a very independent mind and i am sure he has put a lot of thought into it. And anything that i would guess as to whats in it is almost as idle as anybody elses guesses. And heidi, heidi prisbella, just looking at all the different stories start, friday morning, and neal is the one who brought it up, not me, but the porn star angle, its just as important, the threads, alleged threads to Stormy Daniels, all the Different Things happening with this president , his behavior points to a pattern of trying to hide something that exists. Its tangible. Its clear there is potentially a certain amount of panic feeding into this. As you look at whats happening to Stormy Daniels, you look at whats happening with the subpoena of the Trump Organization for their records with the fact that the white house just became aware of specifically what questions mule her may want to ask the president. But, neal, my question for you is and then all of a sudden you have someone who was supposed to have been recused from anything to do with 2016 and then seemingly acting on the president s tweets, acting on what john dowd said when he said, yes, this was the orders of the president and then he retracts that and says no, it wasnt. Can you speak to the highly unusual process that took place here where all of a sudden after these tweets and these comments, theres a race to fire Andrew Mccabe 24 hours before he was supposed to retire. Yes. So on the first part of that about how trump has been acting, as a Justice Department person as in private practice, ive seen a lot of criminals and trump is acting exactly like a criminal, blaming the prosecutor, not letting the process unfold. Attorney general sessions said he was going to recuse from russia, recuse from the Hillary Clinton probe. Then he comes back and says oh, no, im going to mete out punishment to this Deputy Director. Do we have any way to determine whether there was a communication from the white house and Justice Department to say you do the this . Normally there are very specific protocols and rules to avoid precisely these allegations of political interference over internal discipline or over criminal prosecutions. This white house looks to have run roughshod over the whole thing. I bet they dont take any notes or anything like that because they all know theyre engaged in something in ferrous here. So you can draw a Straight Line from all of this directly to Robert Mueller. Now the in, times has new reporting on the special counsels interest in President Trumps business records. And the big question, whats the russia connection . Steve, trump tweeted late last january, i have nothing to do with russia. Your piece defies that just a tiny, tiny bit. Tell us about all the different connections with russia that they could be looking into. Yeah, sure. I think that when you look back over three decades, theres all types of attempts to do business in russia, considerations of doing business in russia. You know, the president s side says, look, nothing really ever happened. But whats left on the table are a number of deals. There was the Miss Universe pageant in 2013. There is, you know, a deal involving a hotel in 2015. And a number of things are let me tell left on the table. But there are some things that could pique his curiosity. So im curious, theres the question of theres the history of trump trying to do business in russia. And then theres the history of trump actually doing business all over the world with russians. So if you think about the totality of trumps contact with russia, theres an awful lot there. And i do think the question is where do you see, from what we know and obviously the mueller inquiry is a black box. Nobody is on the inside of that. But on the base of what we hear or what weve seen in the Public Knowledge of people who have spoken to mueller, where do you think the focus on of what you think mueller is looking at is . It is a mystery and thats a part of the question for all of us that makes for a good debate to wonder where might you go or what might be the thing that is of interest . There is a number of things here. Theres the banquet, trump has done a lot of business over the years. Theres some options here in terms of places to look. So, steve, in the course in any investigation, i assume in the course of your works as an Investigative Reporter for the times on this story, you knock on a lot of doors. Some doors open and reveal things. Other doors remain closed. How easy is it, though, behind one of these doors for someone in russia close to putin, a billionaire, to buy houses, condominiums in florida, in atlantic city, in new york city, Trump Organization properties, in other words, Money Laundering . How easy is that to occur . Well, i mean, it is certainly something that can occur that could occur. I think thats a question for the investigators if theyre interested in this will have to look at some of that and decide whether theres any clear lines between those things and relative to their investigation. What other things do you think they would be prone to look at in addition to the Money Laundering aspect . I think you could look at some of the contacts. You know, theres the in the Miss Universe pageant, for example, thats come up and later there were connections to the meeting at trump tower. Theres other things that are here beyond the Money Laundering question. So, steve, this david ig nairus in washington, President Trump, every time he mentions the russia investigation or repeats the same phrase, theres no collusion inspect your reporting, do you feel the as if you already have enough to make the counterargument, yes, there is collusion or are you still struggling to find the evidence for 245 . I think its a good question from the reporting standpoint. And were looking for more of this at the business side and looking at business dealings over the years and trying to understand the trump history in russia and around russia and with russians. Were going to find out in due time one way or the another where this all leads, but its a bit of a black box trying to guess some of that at this point. I think we all know theres various things that are possibly part of the examination. The New York Times steve eader, thank you very much. Benjamin, put into perspective and youve been tweeting and writing a lot about this, the firing of Andrew Mccabe. There are certain things that we dont know about it and you dont want to jump to conclusions. Having said that, there is an overall impact that it has in terms of his reputation. Right. I would say it is too early to evaluate Andrew Mccabes conduct. You know, he served, in my judgment, with enormous dignity and honor in the period leading up to and following the firing of comey. I think the country owes him a great debt. That said, the Inspector General apparently found fault both with his conduct in the period before that and with his candor about it. And there are some good career people who were involved in that. And i will wait to see the Inspector Generals report and andys response to it before evaluating that. It is not too early to evaluate the president s conduct, which he has been braying for this guys blood in public for months. And it is not too early to say that the speed and timing of this thing smells awfully bad and that the you know, what the military would call in a different context command influence. You know, you cant look at this situation without worrying whether Jeff Sessions was executing what he thought to be the president s will in delivering a scalp that the president and demanded. So i would say there are aspects of it that i want to reserve judgment on. There are aspects of it that are nakedly in front of our eyes at this point. Absolutely. And, neal, what do you think the biggest question out of all the news you have over the weekend, how would you characterize it . Answer that, as well. But what do you think the biggest question is left hanging open right now in the Mueller Probe given whats happened . Over the weekend, the biggest thing is trumps conduct in calling for the firing of this person. I mean, every president is tempted, of course, to Say Something about an individual case. I saw it in obama, clinton, so on. But, of course, president s dont do that. Imagine the unfairness if youre a lone individual, the president of the United States is attacking you and sending a signal to his attorney general sessions who is clinging on for dear life to try and keep his job. The unfairness is dramatic. This is not the stuff that we should be seeing playing out in american politics today. Neal, benjamin, thank you very much. Still ahead, we know donald trump used with nondisthe closure agreements as a private citizen. Now were learning he also reportedly used them as president. Are they worth anything at this point . Well discuss that, ahead on morning joe. It can power your apps with Public Services without starting from scratch. It brings your business up to speed, doing more with systems you have in place. It can bring all your apps to life and run them within your data center. It is. The new ibm cloud private. The cloud thats designed for your data. Ai ready. 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There is new reporting this morning that the presidency hasnt stopped Donald Trumps use of nondisclosure agreements. Washington post columnist ruth marcus says she has obtained a draft of the nondisclosure agreement signed by senior staffers of the trump white house. And that theyre supposed to last beyond his presidency. Ruth writes, quote, in the early months of the administration at the behest of now President Trump who was furious over leaks from within the white house senior white house Staff Members were asked to and did sign nondisclosure agreements vowing not to reveal confidential information and exposing them to damages for any violation. Some balked at first, but then pressed by chief of staff Reince Priebus and the White House Counsels Office ultimately complied, concluding the agreements would likely not be enforceable in any event. The column goes on to say violators would be on the line for 10 million. Payable to the federal government for each and any revelation of confidential information. Joining us now, former u. S. Attorney and former aide to Robert Mueller, now an nbc news Law Enforcement analyst Chuck Rosenburg and former gop counsel for the house Oversight Committee now a contributor to nbcnews. Coms editorial page, think, Sophia Nelson been good to have you both. Good to be here. Chuck, first of all, these ndas, how could they be with, given that somebody works at the white house, how could they be enforced . Its hard to imagine. First of all, you can contract away many of your rights, willingly and for consideration. And white house staffers already have an obligation not to disclose certain information, confidential information, classified information, privileged information. But the rest of the stuff seems at least odd and making the federal government the recipient of money, if theres a violation also strikes me as odd, but id have to see the agreement, mika. Sofia, here is a tweet from michael hayden. What went through the minds of those who great to sign . Did anyone ask, is this normal . Did they think about what they were giving up for themselves in the principals of good governance, precedents set. You work at the pleasure of the president for the country, correct . Who would sign these and why . Two things come to mind. First and foremost, we need to remember that when you work at the white house, particularly in the executive office of the president , you have a security clearance. That holds you to keep information confidential. That is what we use to vet people to make sure theyre trustworthy. So you dont need a nondisclosure agreement. The second thing i have, mika, is doesnt this sound familiar like somebody else we know that was given a nondisclosure agreement and it sounds like President Trump im talking about Stormy Daniels it sounds like President Trump has a pattern of enforcing people to sign these agreements and forcing them with large liquidated damages clauses. Its bizarre and i dont think its legal. Yeah. I am fought sure. Were going to get to the bigger questions about the potential firing and what the ramifications would be of bob mueller in just a moment. But josh, you work in the white house. Would you sign this . I cant imagine anybody even asking me to sign it. The thing about it, mika, is on a daily basis, you have people who when youre working in the white house and the west wing, youre coming across confidential sensitive whether its market Sensitive Information, politically Sensitive Information, sometimes it is diplomatically Sensitive Information. And thats not even the information thats necessarily classified. So the other thing that this sort of raises is was it only senior officials who had to sign this or did anybody who worked in the west wing have to sign this . The truth is, thats why everybody who works in the west wing is so carefully vetted is because there is so much Sensitive Information readily available. Its striking that they actually thought you that Something Like this would even work, let alone that somebody might even sign it. Its definitely striking. Chuck, i want to now go to the big picture with the Mueller Investigation. It appears the president is getting a little anstsy. First of all, would these ndas be of interesting to mueller for any reason . Possibly if theyre being asked to withhold information relative to his investigation. But it seems to be of a different sort. There are some that the president will fire Robert Mueller. Are you concerned about that given the president s patterns and do you think were on the verge of a constitutional crisis . First of all, i am concerned that anybody would do anything to interfere with a legitimate investigation, including the firing of Robert Mueller. But if that were to happen, mika, theres still a body of fact. Theres still investigators and prosecutors working this case and my assumption, although those are becoming dangerous these days, is that somebody else would pick it up. It would trouble me greatly, but i imagine that the investigation would live on. And i think this is a good time to remind people that there are some barriers in the way of doing that, right . Because the president cant out and out fire mueller. You would have to get rosenstein to do it. Have we seen any indication that rosenstein would be willing to do that . Who will take his place . It would have to be for cause, which is clear in the charter that established the special counsel and rosenstein has said over and over again, and i think properly so, he sees no cause. Mueller is doing what he was asked to do. Everybody keeps talking about this red line that he shouldnt cross with mueller. I think he crossed the red line a long time ago. Im talking about the president of the United States. These tweets about mccabe, the tweets about the russian investigation, calling it fake news, attacking individuals. Were already, in my opinion, having just written a book about the constitution, i think were dangerously chose to this already. I think the president is doing something that no ceo of a fortune 100 could do. Can you imagine the ceos getting on and tweeting about one of his senior vps and saying, you know, 90 days to go until his retirement and then the guy gets fired. They would throw him out of the company. Wee crossed the red line a long time ago. You have to take his tweets seriously because he fires people by tweet. News happens, Major International foreign news policy happens by tweet in this presidency. He mentioned mueller by name in his tweets when he lashed out this weekend. Yes, he did. And the reality is, the truth is the president of the United States would dwarf himself standing next to Robert Mueller. But chuck, let me ask you, every day it seems the damage is done to one institution or the other. Damage is done to the presidency, to the just department, to the state department. But in particular, the level of vindictiveness and pettiness via tweet written by the president of the United States towards andy mccabe, what do you think about that . Well, on a couple levels, mike. First, andy is a friend of mine. So personally, its somewhere between dismaying, distressing and disgusting. But second, as a career federal prosecutor, the notion you would attack the most important institutions of government, whether its your intelligence professionals, your diplomates, your prosecutors, your agents is astonishing because youre under mining their work. And as citizens, were all citizens and we need them to succeed. So the notion you would be going after people personally and professionally as the commander in chief, as our chief executive, is astonishing. Its its a new low. Josh earnest, im i go to you because you tend to very carefully give your reaction. And im really working hard, especially since joe is off, on keeping kind of a Straight Line here. But what the heck is going on right now in this white house . We have a scenario where people are leaving in droves. And weve got a president acting more like what that a president . Describe to me the state of this white house right now. Yeah. Its in utter disarray, mika. Within of the things i think is striking about this, were actually relying on these institutions more than ever. At the same time that you have the white house attacking those very institutions. And it is distressing, as chuck cited, but let me try to put some of the optimism here. Which is for the last 15 months, we have seen the president of the United States, the chief executive of the most powerful influential government and country in the world attacking the Law Enforcement institutions in this country, the diplomatic institutions, the military institutions in this country have come under attack and they have with stood that attack. Were seeing the institutions of the United States actually prove to be pretty durable and pretty resilient when you consider the sustained fusilade from the approximated of the United States. The one institution that has not fared very well is the United States congress and the good news about that is in about eight months, the American People will have the opportunity to make some changes to that institution that hopefully will result in a coequal branch of government that will actually start pulling its own weight, actually start fulfilling an important duty it has to the American People to being a check on this administration and making sure that some of those attacks can now be blunted and that we can have a congress thats willing to stand up for those institutions facing such withering attacks right now. I would agree we are witnessing the resilience of our democracy and thats great. But i just wonder where republicans are right now in terms of showing some courage not about party, but about right and wrong. Because, chuck, at this point, were not talking about whether youre a democrat or republican and whose side youre on. Arent we talking about corruption at the highest level . Were talking about right and wrong. You said it exactly correctly, mika. For all the years that i was a federal prosecutor and all the years at the fbi, i never thought of myself as a republican or democrat. And josh is right, the institutions have with stood the attacks because thats the way institutionalists think. They think as americans ands as citizens. I share his optimism. I think were going to be okay. My big concern, mika, is that the republicans, though, are standing on the sidelines in a way that i think is going to do damage the to the gop for a generation. If they dont stand up soon, john mccain is, Lindsey Graham is, but you have to have more than that. And the question so me is why. Why wont they speak up . I think thats what really has me upset. Why are you standing by paul ryan . Why are you standing by Mitch Mcconnell . Why has he not been censured . Do something to show you dont approve of and appreciate the conduct of the president right now. The conduct, which is wrong. Whether youre a democrat or a republican, it is wrong. You dont lie and you dont defame. Chuck rosenburg, thank you both. Coming up, President Trump has congratulated the leaders of both turkey and china in their bids to consolidate party. So after 18 years in power, will Vladimir Putins reelection to another sixyear term win him a positive tweet from the president . Americas former ambassador to russia joins us just ahead on morning joe. Bps natural gas teams use smart App Technology to share data from any well instantly. So they can analyze trends and stop potential problems in their tracks. Because safety is never being satisfied and always working to be better. Weve been preparing for this day. Over the years, paul and i have met regularly with our ameriprise advisor. We plan for everything from retirement to college savings. Giving us the ability to add on for an important member of our family. Welcome home mom. With the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. So if you have family, like me, skiing, you really dont want to see this. At least eight people were injured on friday after a chair lift tee ski resort in the country of georgia was somehow shifted into reverse by an operator. Skiers had to jump off the lift as their chairs sped backward while others held on only to be flung into the air. At least one skier appeared to be trapped on the grouped where a pile of metal chairs later accumulated. This is a nightmare. Ski efrs were taken to the hospital with mon life threatening injuries. Everyone was okay, ultimately. The georgian tourism board said medical expenses fors those affected will be covered. Still ahead, Vladimir Putin was reelected for another term amid rising tensions with the west. Well talk to the a great panel of Foreign Policy experts about the countrys controversial election, next. Next chapter a trip back to the dthe doctors office, mean just for a shot. But why go back there, when you can stay home with Neulasta Onpro . Strong chemo can put you at risk of serious infection. Neulasta helps reduce infection risk by boosting your white blood cell count, which strengthens your immune system. In a key study, neulasta reduced the risk of infection from 17 to 1 , a 94 decrease. Applied the day of chemo, Neulasta Onpro is designed to deliver neulasta the next day. Neulasta is for certain Cancer Patients receiving strong chemotherapy. Do not take neulasta if youre allergic to neulasta or Neupogen Filgrastim . Ruptured spleen, sometimes fatal as well as serious lung problems, allergic reactions, kidney injuries, and capillary leak syndrome have occurred. Report abdominal or shoulder tip pain, trouble breathing or allergic reactions to your doctor right away. In patients with sickle cell disorders, serious, sometimes fatal crises can occur. The most common side effect is bone and muscle ache. So why go back there . If youd rather be home, ask your doctor about Neulasta Onpro. Stay at la quinta. Where were changing with stylish makeovers. Then at your next meeting, set your seat height to its maximum level. Bravo, tall meeting man. Start winning today. Book now at lq. Com when this guy got a flat tire start winning today. In the middle of the night, so he got home safe. Yeah, my dad says our insurance doesnt have that. What . you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. In a result bound to surprise no one, Vladimir Putin has won reelection in russia. Russian state media reports that preliminary results show voters elected putin to a fourth on term with more than 76 of the vote. The victory extends to 65yearold putins hold on power to 24 years, longer than any russian leader since joseph stalin. Putins main opponent, outspoken critic Alexei Novalny was barred from running. The election comes at a time of heightened tensions between russia and the west which erupted in the last couple of weeks when russia tried to assassinate an ex spy in the uk using extremely toxic military grade nerve agent. Joining us now to talk about all of this, professional of Political Science at stanford university, former u. S. Ambassador to russia, michael mcfall. We will get his shot there. And here in washington, former dod official and former executive evelyn fark you s, senior fellow at the atlantic council. Also with us, former cia station chief who spent five years in moscow, daniel hoffman. But first, David Ignatius, ill start with you. Give us your insight of the reelection of Vladimir Putin and just how shocked you were. If ever there was an election you could have predicted six months ago, this was it. I think the question were all wondering about and i want to take this to ambassador mcfall in a minute. But we now have Vladimir Putin in power at least until 2024. We have somebody who has become increasingly assertive and aggressive in using power. And let me ask you, ambassador mcfall, youve watched putin at very close range from our embassy in moscow. What is your own expectation about how it will behave over this next term of his presidency . Do you expect any new things . Continuation of the same . What would be your forecast . Well, i hope that youll use this electric tore electoral mandate to pivot reform inside russia. Senior officials line, thats their line. Especially on the domestic side. He even hinted at it where he said changes will be coming after the inauguration. But i fear thattite not going to change. I fear now that he feels he has an electoral mandate of Central Asian proportions, by the way, and maybe its not even fair to call this event an election, by the way. I think we need to be careful about that. But most certainly for him, this is his largest vote ever. It means the russian people support what hes doing if you look at opinion polls, especially on Foreign Policy. So i think its highly unlikely hell pivot his course after this election. Dan, you were cia station chief in moscow. Again, like ambassador mcfall have an intimate view of this person. We just have witnessed an event in britain where it appears putin authorized the poisoning using a deadly soviet nerve agent of a former spy who was swapped. Did that surprise you . It seems like even for an ex kgb officer, the gloves are coming off and hes doing things that are super aggressive. Why is that . I think it does in some ways reflect his weakness. I think the timing of the attempted murder was really important just before the election. There was a message there for putins own people, dont cross me. Theres no safe space anywhere in the world. If you do, then ill eliminate you. And them for the poll lagz, they very much wanted this antirhetoric to reach its decree she crescendo before this election. And, david, why shouldnt we call it an election . Thats a good point. Well, we what is it . This dictator is essentially running unopposed. Thats the way i would frame the question for evelyn. Evelyn, we now have six more years of putin. What is the right way to treat him . Whats the way in which the u. S. , through its policy, can seek to limit the damage he does . Should we stop referring to him as an elected leader . I definitely wouldnt refer to you as a democratically elected leader. Here is the thing. I agree with Michael Mcfalls fears. Putin and the comment that dan made before about the poisoning. Putin did that on purpose. What he did in london was deliberately intended to bring about a reaction in the west. But theresa may said she was very measured because they know, the brits know, so she said theres more coming. I think the problem is putin will not stop with his aggressive actions against the west. Hes certainly not going to stop now. Hes actually weaker domestically. Yes, he got 70pluspercent of the vote. But the turnout was lower. To get the turnout they got, they had to coerce people. Employers were telling people you go and vote and take a selfie to prove it to me. They were having sales of eggs and fish. Thats the sugar they used to get people to vote. This is not good for putin. His only recourse is to ratchet up his international action. Thats not good for us. Just to get to your question finally, we have to be firm. The only way to get putin to stop is to set limits. Mike. Dan huffman, i dont want to expose you, but weve talked about this before. Vladimir putin in his wildest dreams of trying to recreation the soviet union of 40 years ago. Could he have dreamed bigger dreams about what is actually going on today within the United States political system . Yes, this is an extraordinary success for Vladimir Putin. Essentially in my view injected a virus into our political system which is causing great turmoil and partisan politics that have really impacted our government at large. For putin, hes used everything as a zero sum game. When the United States is down, thats good for him. So ambassador mcfall, if you could sort of tie this all together for us as we close, weve got these socalled reelection im not sure what to call it of Vladimir Putin. Putin wins reelection. Youre right, that wasnt an election, that was a joke. So id like to know what we should call it and we should actually as a network really rethink that. And how this all pertains to whats happening here in the states, the Mueller Investigation and our elections. Well, two things. I made the point. I want people to think about that word. The soviet union, they had elections too. We never afirmed that kind of legitimacy to soviet leaders. Lets start doing it with Vladimir Putin. Their own people are saying the same thing. The head of the russia Propaganda Network just called him a leader instead of a president. So we should get our heads around that too. Secondly, i think were also confused about the time were in. We compare it to the cold war and then we all say oh, its really not the cold war. And i think its time to start thinking about maybe its worse than the cold war. During the cold war at least in the last decades, the soviet union was not annexing territory in europe. They werent meddling in our elections. And they sometimes did anation s assassinations but they didnt do it in this brazen way. Hes daring us to challenge him. Because we dont want to think in those terms, we dont want to follow a policy of containment. We continue to kind of dodge that question. I think after today we should begin to think that were in for a long sustained confrontation with russia and we need a Foreign Policy strategy. A strategy of the west. To contain putins russia. Okay. Ambassador you told me to wrap it up and tie it all together so i tried. Im scared straight. Good. Evelyn, farcus, daniel huffman, thank you as well. Keep it right here on morning joe. Im not a bigwig. Or a canythingo. But ive got an idea sir. Get domo. Itll connect us to everything thats going on in the company. Get it for jean whos always cold. For the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. Give us the data we need. In one place, anywhere we need it. Help us do our jobs better. With domo we can run this place together. Well thats thats your job i guess. Im all about my bed. This mattress is dangerously comfortable. When i get in, i literally say, ahh. Introducing the leesa mattress. A better place to sleep. The leesa mattress is designed to provide strong support, relieve pressure and optimize airflow to keep you cool. Today is gonna be great. Read our reviews then try the leesa mattress in your own home. Experience the leesa difference before you buy, at any west elm. Or go to buyleesa. Com and get 100 off. And Free Shipping too. When this bell rings. It starts a chain reaction. Thats heard throughout the connected business world. At t Network Security helps protect business, from the largest Financial Markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyberattacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. Keeping the world of business connected and protected. Thats the power of and. We had a jam packed morning. Were going to finish off here with five thoughts. David ignatius, well start with you. If members of congress think that theyre going to protect the special counsel Robert Mueller, they better get to work, because whats in place now isnt going to cut it. And then second, i just want to note, we just closed with a discussion of russia and putins election. This is a time for americas like ambassador mcfall, like our guests, to do what your dad did, which is frame how america should think about the russian challenge, so we can make policy. Your dad was a genius at that. Strategic thinking. I dont think theres a lot happening in the white house. John heilman. Yes, ive got to say, ambassador mcfalls last statement, i had been thinking about this moment as cold war ii and him making the argument that this could be a worse a more contentious near term future in our relationship with russia, worse than the cold war, was rung true to me, and was chilling. Mike. Assessing everything weve talked about this morning, my final thought is we as a country, as citizens, ought to pay more attention to whats going on. Were on the eve literally of the 15th anniversary of the start of the war in iraq which resulted in thousands of deaths, section 60, at arlington. Peoples distrust of government. It continues through this day with what is going on in this presidency. Pay attention and vote. Heidi. Will we ever get an answer to the question of why andy mccabe was really fired . Was he fired for what he did wrong potentially with the clinton investigation and well find that out in the ig report . Or was he fired for what he did right, which is like comey refusing to take a loyalty pledge to this president and for his testimony before the House Intelligence Committee . Showing that he could be a chief corroborating witness to what james comey has said . We find out today those loyalty pledges might have been on paper, which is incredible. The last thing, just picking off what heidi said, its important to remember that in trumps tweet he talked about andy mccabe being a leaker. Remember, andy mccabe was in charge of the russia inquiry during the election. The russia inquiry into the Trump Campaign did not leak during the election. What mr. Mccabe actually did talk about in the context of the election was the potential fbi investigation of the clinton foundation. That certainly didnt help secretary clinton during the campaign and i think its i illustrative of what a sham this firing is. I think what we saw over the weekend were the actions of a would be, wannabe, authoritarian, not a very good one, but definitely wanna be authoritarian. Im praying and hoping for courage out of congress. Please, use your voices. Do it for the country. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. Thanks, mika. Good morning. Im stephanie ruhle, with a lot to cover. President trump taking direct aim at Robert Mueller on twitter as his personal lawyer calls for Rod Rosenstein to end the investigation. Sparking new fears the president