Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20170414

Pretty good song. It is. Welcome to morning joe. Theres meaning to that. With us columnist and associate editor of the Washington Post David Ignatius, executive producers and cohosts of the circus on show time, Mark Halperin and joe heilemann. Where is heilemann . Hes in a bunker. There he is. Heavy circus presence. Did you notice David Ignatius smiled when he introduced him. I snuck in. A slight smile. Jeffrey goldberg could not do that yesterday. Do you know somebody wrote up an article saying i was sexist for telling him to smile twice . Oh, come on. Whats wrong with being sexy . Thats one of the best lines from spinal tap. Thank you rob reiner. Whats the matter with being sexy. A new poll this morning. Oh, good, my daughter is awake. They always textality 6 01. A new poll gives voters latest opinions of the Trump Presidency. Nearly a week after the military sykes in syria, his Approval Rating is 39 , up one point from late march while the percentage of those who disapprove is down two points to 49 . 56 of americans favor limited u. S. Strikes on military targets in syria. 59 dont believe President Trump knows what he wants to United States to do ther 39 believes he makes a plan. 49 disapprove of how hes handling Foreign Policy, a 7 approval from february. 40 of americans say hes strengthening the u. S. On the world stanl, up five points. 49 say he is weakening the u. S. Which has fallen from 56 earlier. However, only 42 have trust in him to make the right decision in an international crisis. 55 do not. 39 trust him to weigh all the options before acting during a crisis. 58 do not. There has been obviously its safe to say were in a period of transition. You can see that in those numbers. Sometimes theyre leading indicators, sometimes theyre not. The gallup poll has trump up five points over the last week. Not as much move in the maris poll. Obviously a lot of people, Mark Halperin, still waiting and seeing how this turns out. This poll is in line with most of the others. The events of the last week, as much as theyve gotten acclaim on Foreign Policy didnt revolutionize what people think of the president. I think it will reenforce for the white house what david wrote in his column, as he moves to be a more establishment figure at least on Foreign Policy, does he see positive reenforcement and continue in that direction, and does he extend that when Congress Comes back to things Like Health Care or tax reform. David ignatius you write this called trump gets a taste of success. Trump is making gains because hes assembled a Competent National Security Team and listens to its advice. There was a consensus among his top advisers for a quick, limited strike on a Syrian Air Base and trump took the recommendation. He didnt amplify, augment or otherwise disrupt with his own tweets. He allowed the process to work. If trump goes back to his free wheeling, tweeterinchief role or if the disruptive wouldbe strategist Stephen Bannon regains influence, over the past week trump adopted a different approach, more careful and consensual. It brings him closer to the Foreign Policy mainstream that he be rided during the campaign. But it also gives limb a taste of the success he craves. So well put. People say what do you think of all of these changes, oh, im shocked. Its like having somebody to invest your money in the stock market and theyve lost your money for the past 60 days and suddenly they start making great investments. Im not going to criticize that. Weve all prepared for trump the disast disaster. How do you handle trump the success if we keep moving in this direction . Well, well see. I think the public is right to be skeptical. Those numbers were interesting, greater support but still a lot of miss gave vings reflected in those numbers. Its clear to me that trump has bonded with this core group. You list his secretary of defense jim mattis, secretary of state rex tillerson, certainly his soninlaw Jared Kushner as a kind of inhouse whisperer to the president. You list the new deputy National Security adviser dina powell and her boss, h. R. Mcmaster. When you have a crisis and do well at solving it, theres something that happens. We all know that. You bond with the people youre with. We can do this. Thats what weve been watching over the last week. They could still unravel. The bannon issue is unresolved. Theyve got to get that sorted out. The presidt could come back to be being the disrupp tore. Something goes wrong, he has surprises, reacts doubles down tomorrow is saturday morning. You never know. When he gets up in the morning, its a new morning. But hes reading columns like this. Hes getting approval. He is on one level the king of the flipflop you have to say. His positions on key issues arer radically different from what they were during the campaign. But hes also becoming a credible leader in Foreign Policy with a strong team and i would say some real successes. He also its very interesting with russia. David, you said early on when trump took the call from the taiwanese leader, throwing china off is not the worst thing in the world. Theyre always throwing us a bit off. I think trump proved, you write by a very positive meeting with the chinese that came over. They get to go back and say we sat down with this guy that was talking to taiwan. Russia, were hearing the same thing about russia, ambassador mcfaul said, Vladimir Putin thought he had julie in the atlantic wriegts, the american air strike on the air base in syria didnt do that much. A day and 59 tomahawk missiles later, assad is still in power, planes still taking off, still flying, still dropping bombs and killing people in the same province where the gas attack killed people last week. What the strike did do was radically alter the power dynamic between moscow and washington that putin spent the last three years establishing, one in which putin acts and washington gosh smacked scrambles to react. Its putin and his government that is reacting. Hes learning the same exact thing that jeb bush and marco rub you and ted cruz and all of those people that thought they were so much smarter than dumb donald trump learned in the campaign. Somebody in the white house said to me over this last week, so the russians are catching for a change rather than pitching. The russians have been pitching, calling the shots. Now theyre having to react to u. S. Policy. Thats precisely what trump wanted and i think it has real benefits. I just would stress on china, the fact is that trump had to pay the ticket of admission. Trump started off destabilizing, im going to revisit the taiwan issue. The chinese said, well, president xi is not going to pick up the phone and talk to you until you clarify that. Im told trump in a white house meeting said, so clarify, meaning so get it done. If this is what it takes to have this dialogue, lets get it done. Thats when this begins. It did mean backing off of some of his early rhetoric. Tomorrow is saturday and you never know what can happen, but in this moment you see trump actually following through on something he always said he would do, especially on the world stage, and that is always keep people guessing. And russia right now is in the position to be most surprised because for months he has been vexing the entire Media Community and the World Community as to why he is so whats the word almost positive and at times ridiculously positive about vladimir pin. Sequious. Obsequious. All of a sudden things have changed. The same could be said for china, the way hes spoken about china. The entire premise of his campaign is were getting screwed and ripped off by china, theyre bad actors an currency manipulators. That all changed after the meeting with president xi. Hes moving carrier groups up toward the korean peninsula. John heilemann, i would go to you and talk about david ignati ignatius point about who the president is listening to. It appears to be the tight inner circle. Steve bannon looking to be marginalized. I think trump would say, yes, bannon helped me to become president , the decisions hes made on the muslim ban, the travel ban, health care repeal, he wants to go with people who have gotten him wins. I think for a lot of people, willie, who are concerned about trump as commanderinchief, certainly people who on the left side of the political spectrum, but a lot of people on the mainstream conservative side of the political spectrum, they look now at the notion, as john mccain said to us last week, that the biggest thing he took out of the Syrian Strike last friday was, it looks like donald trump is listening to the generals. That gives me cause for some degree of greater comfort and confidence. I think thats true, as i said, across much of the mainstream political spectrum. You may disgre or agree with any given policy decision or preference that those people have, but people like mcmaster, like general mattis, these are serious people, sober people, and the fact that trump seems to be leaning on to them now in a way he wasnt necessarily before gives you some sense, not just becoming more conventional president , potentially, but also one who understands that he knows, to some extent at least, hes starting to know what he doesnt know. You know, mark, a week after the strikes, some media writers with oversimplifyhis. Oh, its just about the strikes. No, great comfort from what he said about nato, the fact that russia is back on their heels, the fact we have a stronger relationship with china after he was promising 40 tafr riffs. Knowing trump we said in realtime, thats the Real Estate Developers opening bid. You go in hard. Same with putin. It was his opening bid. Could be the same thing with putin. Hes taking advantage of the fact that congress is away, he has the stage to himself. I think the thing he said about ted cruz and jeb bush, particularly ted cruz and marco rubio is exactly right. Most human beings have the capacity, if theyre dealing with somebody, just carrots or just sticks. Youre in a good mode or a bad mode. He can do carrots and sticks one day simultaneously. You look at the relationship with russia and china, totally flipped. China, good personal relationship, talking about working together, which will come to a head about working with north korea. Russia, obsequious before, now very much. Keeping people unsettled but being willing to switch on a dime. Thats the way hes always be and its worked this week on Foreign Policy. It has risks. Big risks. Scared the hell out of the Foreign Policy community and our allies, but if this is what it leads to, then thats a positive thing. We just again, like you said before, we dont know whats coming next. We do know, though, hes listening to the right people. His people would make the argument that some disruption was necessary, that people were so comfortable with their expectations about what america would and wouldnt do. We were just sort of fixed in place in peoples minds. Im struck by the way in which trump is playing a game that i remember from Richard Nixon which is the game of a triangular world with the u. S. , russia and china. You play one off against another. You move back and move forth. Constant dialogue, leverage one against the other. That is what kissinger thought was the heart of good policy in a period after vietnam when the u. S. Was weak and struggling to find its way back. Kissinger had this vision, and i think hes been feeding some of that to Jared Kushner who i cant help but see as kissingers kind of protege in this white house and saying this game of nations is the way you want to try to gain greater leverage. Makes perfect sense. As you know, those two have been talking for six months now. I remember, again, coming up before when he put china off guard early on, you said the same exact thing. Keep both of your rivals off balance. This is absolutely lesson one of kissingers state craft. Its clear that Jared Kushner and i think also clear that President Trump has understood that, internalized that. Up next well apply all of this to the big Foreign Policy challenges right now, including the north korea standoff and the massive bomb dropped on isis fighters in afghanistan yesterday. Well also be joined by president ial historian michael besh loss to help put the week in historical perspective. National security analyst juan ser ratty on wikileaks and nbcs Hallie Jackson with a live report from the southern white house in palm beach, florida. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Tal one. With it, i earn unlimited 2 cash back on all of my purchasing. 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And because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. All for a smoother tasting cup. Green mountain coffee. A mihappy birthday, sweetie oh, millies. Trick or treat were so glad to have you here. Atf we treated great female scientists like they were stars . Yasss queen what if Millie Dresselhaus, the first woman to win the National Medal of science in engineering, were as famous as any celebrity . [Millie Dresselhaus was seen having lunch today. ] [. Rumors of the new discovery. ] what if we lived in a world like that . crowd applauding we know a place thats already working on it. [ [ screams ] ] [ shouting ] brace yourself this is crazy [ tires screeching ] whoo boom baby rated pg13. [ screams ] happened. I authorized my military. We have the greatest military in the world and weve given them total authorization. Thats why theyve been so successful lately. If you look at whats happened over the last eight weeks and compare that to whats happened over the last eight years, youll see theres a tremendous difference. That was the president yesterday talking about the u. S. Deploying the most powerful nonnuclear bomb in the arsenal that reportedly killed as many as 36 suspected isis fighters. Nicknamed as the mother of all bombs, it was used to destroy caves in the eastern part of the country. He did not speak directly to whether or not he authorized the use of this massive bomb. It comes one day after he announced hes sending National Security adviser h. R. Mcmaster to afghanistan to assess whether more u. S. Forks are needed to turn around the war in the country, now in its 15th year. Wow. David ignatius, let me ask you about the bomb dropped on afghanistan yesterday. Some people surmise it was not as much ability killing that group of isis fighters as sending a message to Nuclear Countries to remind them we have something that can penetrate underground nuclear facilities. Do you buy that . I buy the idea this is part of a general message from trump the lid is off, were prepared to use weapons that might have been restricted before. I must say this is a strange use of this very large ordnance. Ive been in that area of afghanistan. Its really rural and remote. You cant help but think its an attempt to intimidate, physically intimidate the fighters there. Thats part of war always. I think the statement is, hey, folks, the gloves are off. The military benefits of using it in afghan this way probably limited, but the signal is pretty powerful. The signal is, john heilemann, and i dont say this in a disparaging way at all, but this would be what the Trump Administration would want the world to know, that barack obama is no longer president of the United States. If you act badly on the international stage, trumps people would say theres not going to be a wringing of hands and were not going to talk about this for months and months and then not act. The United States is going to use its military when it feels its in its best interest to use its military and will be far more aggressive about it than the 44th president. As long as you characterize that as the way that the administration thinks about it and not necrily the way everybody thinks about it, thats exactly right. They want to draw a very bright line, and i think the syria case is one where obviously because of the history its a place where they can draw the clearest distinction. Without making a judgment about the income, this is a case where faced with similar circumstances, the Obama Administration reached that fork in the road and did one thing, the Trump Administration did Something Else. People who are defenders say president obama did seek military force in syria and the congress didnt want any part of it. I do think the question become, joe, given the balance that trump tried to draw during the campaign about being tough but also being restrained, if now were going to see projections of military strength in a bunch of o different places, what happened to that core what a lot of people thought was a core Bedrock Foundation of his outlook on the world and how much more indiscriminate is it going to get, a guy who is once, oh dont want to be the worlds policeman. Now is he going to try to play cop in a bunch of different questions. Willie, many people would you could define the strike against syria last thursday night, in using john heilemanns words, tough, but restrained. In fact, so much of the Foreign Policy establishment was a bit relieved that it was as restrained as it was. Yeah, i think his instinct might have been to go even further, but he did exactly what David Ignatius said, go to talk to the generals. Do have simmering now, you have syria where we dropped the bomb misguided yesterday and killed 18 fighters. Youve got iran, north korea, yemen. Theres a busy map for him to deal with. His inbox was just as vexing as obamas inbox. Again, the question is what do you do with that . The one thing we do know is most of our allies have actually also been heartened by whats happened over the past week. We havent even mentioned north korea yet. Multiple Senior Intelligence officials tell nbc news america is prepared to launch a preemptive strike if it believes north korea leader kim jongun will launch a Nuclear Weapons test. Tactics could include missiles and bombs, cyber warfare or special ops on the ground. U. S. Officials say a test could come as early as this weekend. A large scale military parade expected for saturday. The 105th anniversary of kim ilsungs birth which is the regimes most important holiday. A top north korean official says a test will take place whenever its leader sees fit. Yesterday trump tweeted, i have great confidence china will properly deal with north korea. If they are unable to do so, its allies will. Yesterday leon panetta said the United States must grapple with the fact that north korea is a nuclear nation. If we were to attack them, they would wipe out seoul and 20 Million People that live in seoul. If it became a nuclear war which is likely, millions of lives have be will be lo. Thats t reason we havent pulled the trigger. Weve used deterrence as a principle policy. Frankly in the end thats what were left with. Frankly it was containment and deterrence that ultimately resulted in the soviet union self destructing. Many people in the white house have pushed back a little bit against our nbc report saying it wouldnt be a preemptive strike but would be willing to retaliate. Greatest of respect for leon panetta. He can be secretary of defense for life as far as im concerned. Detainment and deterrence worked over the soviet union for 50 years. Whatever we have done has been an abysmal failure in north korea starting back in 1994 with bill clinton deciding to send jimmy carter over. Theyve lied to us one time after another after another. That said, even with the white house pushing back, i was jarred yesterday when i read this tweet and also when i heard sean spicer say all sean was doing was echoing what the president said, the chinese can take care of this or we can take care of this. Ive said around this set that may be where we have to end up, if that means stopping a Nuclear Strike on seattle. Its one thing to say that around the set, but coming from the president or the president s spokesman, that is jarring and that is far different than a missile strike on a runway in syria. They have terrible choices with north korea. North korea is a situation where carrots have not worked, sticks have not worked, inexorable progre progress. I have said the pentagon behind them have said we need to deal with this before north korea has the ability to deliver a Nuclear Weapon on to u. S. Territory. As difficult as this problem is now, think about what it would be in two years. Isnt that the problem with containment and deterrence . The soviets, i can say this now without people going crazy. The soviets military were conservative with a small c. They would go into hungry, czechoslovakia when they felt like they had to, afghanistan. They would do something in the 50s, something in the 60s, were a couple years away from seattle facing a Nuclear Strike. A ppt cannot wait. The trick trump may have pulled off is to draw the chinese into recognition that its better to deal with this now than later, and the chinese would be helpful to us as opposed to obstructing us as they have in the past. If trump has done that in this very early summit meeting with xi, if hes done that process, i would say of all the achievements, thats the one that actually matters. What are your sources telling you about that . Do they feel like theyre moving china in that direction . Yes, i think the white house feels that the xi meeting was precisely what they wanted which is a real chance for these two people to get to know each other, to talk. The fact that since the meeting they talked twice on the phone and trump clearly said theres a big un vote coming up on syria. We sure would be happy if you abstain. The chinese abstained. They voted against russia. Havent seen that in a while. There have been a series of things where trump says this is a real relationship, transactional, working together. I think the chinese have sent that message to north korea. Dont think were going to bail you out. We think youre destabilizing the region and basically saying werwith the u. S. In wanting this defused. Ron foreinier is back in to. Thats ahead on morning joe. Times up, insufficient were on prenatal care. Es. And administrative paperwork. Your days of drowning people are numbered. Same goes for you, budget overruns. And rising costs, wipe that smile off your face. Were coming for you, too. For those who wont rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. Optum. How well gets done. Now that i work there, i value dothe food even more. I feed it to yoshi because there are no artificial colors, preservatives and its made with real chicken. Im so proud to make dog chow natural in davenport, iowa. Its realizing beauty doesnt stop at my chin. Roc®s formula adapts to delicate skin areas. My fine lines here . Visibly reduced in 4 weeks. Chest, neck, and face cream from roc®. Methods, not miracles. ™ is to always keep track of your employees. R micromanage them. Make sure theyre producing. Woo employee of the month you really shouldnt leave their side. Vita coco coconut water, hydration comes naturally. Please dont talk about that. Whatever it is, i want to hear it. A greaterry francona story. Joining us now publisher and editor of cranes detroit business, ron fornier. His book love that boy is out in paperback. Great book. We have a piece of paper here with rons thoughts on them. All of your thoughts can be contained on one single piece of paperer . Its a small list. Ron, its great to have you here. You have eight thoughts from Trump Country. Number one, dont forget why he was elected. Why was he elected . Because most of this country desperately wants change in politics. This election was about peoples hunger for change versus their fear of this particular change. That itself, that dynamic hunger for crane, too. Crane detroit business. Great business. When i came back here after spending the summer in michigan. So many people in Trump Country would say that donald trump, hes crazy, hes crazy but hes pissing you guys off. Hes crazy, but better than those democrats, better than those republicans. That was baked in the cake with a lot of people. That leads to number two, why he survived when other normal politicians havent. He has said things that have been so shocking, our hair ill say my hair has been on fire. Okay, they cant still be supporting him after what he says about a judge, what he says about the press. Shooting one on fifth avenue. There has been some falloff over the last couple weeks. At least for the last 50 days or so, this is him. You guys in the press are freaking out. Were good with it. When you vote for a guy after saying hes crazy, but i really want disruption, then when he comes back and is leading in a way thats a little erratic, a little crazy, thats baked in the cake. What a lot of americans want out there, not all bigots, not all stupid, they really want disruption and theyre willing to take a risk on a guy who they think is crazy. Do you sense what i sense when i talk to Trump Supporters is hes got a long leash with them . All these contradictions all week, weve been saying he used to believe this and now hes saying this, theyre giving him a pass. They like what he represents which is the change he brought to washington. They didnt elect him with a list of policies. They made a gutlevel decision that this is a guy who is going to bring change to a system that they desperately want changed. We still have to look at this outside the political system and look at the fact, what does it say about a man who is making these kind of aboutface flipflops, a man who really hungers adulation. Is it healthy to have a president who is rooted in sand and thirsty for applause . To me the big question that arches over everyone. Got elected with 46 of the popular te, in the high 30s according to most of the opinion polls. You cant do big things in america if you have the support of between 39 and 46 of the electorate. How do you balance still being true to the core base that is, as willie said, very patient with him . Hes got to expand that group of supporters and get more people, people who didnt vote for him, if hes go into get big things done. Thats why we have to get beyond this, why he hasnt lost his base. He cant lead this country, he cant change this country, bring the kind of positive change we need in this country unless he figures out how to get beyond that 35 . Hes done very little to do that i think even in this last week. I see a shift. Do you think he shifted in a way thats going to bring people on board who have been so afraid of him that they would rather have the status quo . I think theres obviously so much that could happen tomorrow, so im not sitting here being duped. But i think this could be, if he wanted it to be, a very, very new start for him. If he surrounded himself with the people hes been surrounded by this week to make the decisions hes made and followed through on them in a methodical way without lurching and then used the advice of a dina powell and gary cohen behind the scenes and maybe reince but nobody else, i think, yeah. Mark halperin, i hope you dont mind me saying this. We had a phone call last night. A very private phone call. Actually, no, this part isnt private. What mark said was, he needs a Henry Mcmaster of domestic policy. If he has somebody like that that can help him push legislation through, then you do have a full package. If you lisn to the people that youve picked on defense and then have people in domestic that know how to get a Health Care Bill through its not impossible unless you dont have people in there that arent mcmasters of domestic policy. There are people out there that can say this is how you and there are people in there. Thats possible, joe. Mika, what youre saying is possible. Im saying when you look at the breadth of his career and his campaign, theres reason to think he has an internal compass. And tomorrow is saturday morning. The scariest day in america. Here is what Charles Krauthamer writes, the Washington Post. The great reversal for now. The world is agog at President Trumps head snapping Foreign Policy reversal, he runs on a platform of America First, renounces the role of world policeman. Then last weekend assad drops chemical weapons on rebelheld territory and trump launches 59 tomahawk missiles into syria. This was, in part, an emotional reaction to images of children dying of sarin poisoning, and, in part, seizing the opportunity to redeem Barack Obamas unenforced red line on chemical weapons. Whatever the reason, moral or strategic, trump acted and effectively reset his entire Foreign Policy. This is not to say that things could not change tomorrow. Weve just witnessed one aboutface. With a president who counts unpredictability as a virtue, he could well very verse course again. For now, u. S. Policy has been normalized. Steve bannon was one of the people arguing against the strike in syria. The white house and particularly donald trump view the strike as a success for him. Does that mean that the steve bannon, the nationalist America First, lets think about home before we go out and worry about our interests abroad, is that gone . Is the steve bannon influence out the window at least on Foreign Policy . I think on Foreign Policy, the goal i think was twofold, the longterm play in theory is to get to America First. Its to shake up the board, pick up the board they inherited from barack obama and shake it up and watch the pieces move around and hope something good comes of that. I think it also was to project strength, acting in one part of the world, to project it everywhere to make everybody think about what the president will do. That America First . You can argue it is. I dont know about those in the white house who care about immigration, jobs, small government, i dont know that they care much about these Foreign Policy issues as compared to the domestic ones. One of the things that used to enrage me so much about bill clinton but also made me understand, made him so dangerous as a political opponent to the Republican Party is the fact that he just didnt play by anybodys rules. He was not bound by the same rules that people, politicians with a shred of dignity were bound by. That allowed him to go anywhere any time. Donald trump is not rooted in anything why is ari calling you during the show . I dont know. Does he not know youre on live tv. I think he wants to share an opinion. Put him on speaker phone. I will. We have a sevensecond delay. Its okay. It makes him dangerous, but it also at times can be used as an effective weapon. He doesnt play by the same rules as everyone else. Franklin roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, lincoln had these traits. Im not comparing him to these men. You said something, i cannot say this persons name. One of the most respected names in Washington Four months ago told mika and me we were talking about how is he going to be as president. He said, you know, i met with him, he reminds me a lot of the books i read about franklin roosevelt. We almost fell out of our chair. He said roosevelt changed his story with whomever was in the room. He loved having people attacking each other. And while they were attacking each other, he moved forward to what he wanted to do. Im not comparing him to roosevelt, but the management style is chaotic like that. There is that similarity. I want to address one thing real quick that i think were overlooking a paradigm shift. We talk about civilian control in this country when were talking about Foreign Policy, we also expect our president and the civilians around the president to be the collect of the military. Were talking now we hope the military is a check on a somewhat erratic president. Thats a big shift in the way we look at Foreign Policy and military action in this country. Be by the way, mika ron fornier, thank you very much. Your statement was going to be a couple minutes longer. Tom brokaw joins us. Bloggers, here is your headline, ron fornier compares donald trump to Franklin Delano roosevelt. Good luck getting back to detroit. And to jesus. This week of Major Political whiplash. Well be right back. After becoming one of the largest Broadband Companies in the country. After expanding our Fiber Network coast to coast. These are the places we call home. We are centurylink. We believe in the power of the digital world. The power to connect. And thats what drives us everyday. Can make any occasion feel more special. Ie so she makes her pie crust from scratch. And sprinkles on brown sugar streusel. So that you can spend more time making special moments with your family. Marie callenders its time to savor are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec® its starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. Customer service d. Maam. This isnt a computer. Wait. Youre real . With discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u. S. , like me, anytime. Wow. This is a recording. Really . No, im kidding. 100 u. S. Based customer service. Here to help, not to sell. No more than that. Lets stop right there. No. Easter is big. I know but youre winding down from easter, eaten your chocolate bunnies, gone to church. Not yet. First you watched willies show. God, whats wrong with you . Im trying to set something up here. This is a very awkward setup. Blessed good friday to everybody out there. Thank you, joe. And no, dont thank me. And, secondly, easter weekend its a big easter weekend. Throughout the whole weekend, our kids have a tradition in our house. Whats that . First of all, good friday is one of the holiest days of the year. On saturday were reading our bible verses, coloring easter egg. Smoking cigarettes . Just the young one. Just jack. Then we start getting ready for early sunday morning before easter because something comes on early sunday morning that really puts us in the spirit to go to church. Really . Its an easter tradition unlike any other. Yeah. Phrase ive coined. Sunday today on nbc. Sunday today. An easter tradition unlike what is it . My guest this week is julia louisdreyfus. Oh, my god, stop it. Stop it. Get out how do they follow up on that last its amazing. Selena meyers is out of office. Im so jealous. Shes into legacy building. Although theres not much of a legacy to build on. Great conversation. So much fun. She was shooting the season in the south bronx. We went and met her at a bar in the south bronx. Talked seinfeld, veep, her early day. Mikas favorite. She doesnt know what to do. Im so jealous. That will be fantastic. Well see that. Were going to go to church. We come home from church. Kids always look for the easter eggs. Smoke more cigarettes. Bite the head off the chocolate bunny. We smoke some more cigarettes and then after watching the Ten Commandments i ive got it beta. After we watch my dads copy of the Ten Commandments on beta max. 8 00 pm on show time, morning joe World Premiere first look clip. Is there profanity in it . We brought a clip. There is profanity. Fantastic. Tak a look. [ phone rings ] all right. Not in service. [ phone rings ] houston, we have no answer. Please hang up and try again. Busy. [ phone rings ] if someone answers ill faint and therefore not be able to complete the call. Hello . My name is mark. Im calling from Marist College. Were calling people in your community and getting opinions. Are you 18 years or older . Uh, yeah. Hello . We are calling from the marrist institute for public opinion. I would love to hear your brief survey. I would love to hear your answers to a brief senior have a. What . Its a brief survey regarding issues facing residents across the country. Okay. I was trying to get to the next screen. She was willing to answer until i wasted her time. The screen says your answer is incomplete. I forgot to check someone answered the phone. Basically i screwed it up. [ bleep ] i had a live one. Worst poller on the face of the earth. I was learning. Marrist uses students who are extraordinarily well trained. They gave me a crash course. Making me angry. Watch on sunday. Thats not where the story is. Were you suffering from aphasia there . The screen is supposed to guide you how to do it. And youre not supposed to deviate from the script at all. And i clicked on the wrong thing and the screen kept refreshing. Is this the marrist poll we just got . Yes. You participated in it . They couldnt use his material. They couldnt use mine but watch on sunday. Youll see me go from suffering from a small stroke to suffering from a large stroke. It gets better. Well get you the results that mark was trying to conduct. The margin of error may be high. Steve schmidt and the Washington Post eugene r robinson. Morning joe will be right back. Whats the story behind Green Mountain coffee and fair trade . Lets take a flight to colombia. This is boris calvo. Boris grows mindblowing coffee. And because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. All for a smoother tasting cup. Green mountain coffee. Its my decision to make its nbeauty last. Ix. Roc® retinol started visibly reducing my fine lines and wrinkles in one week. And the longer i use it, the better it works. Retinol correxion® from roc methods, not miracles. ™ looking for clear answers for your Retirement Plan . Start here. Or here. Even here. And definitely here. At fidelity, were available 24 7 to make Retirement Planning simpler. We let you know where you stand, so when it comes to your Retirement Plan, youll always be absolutely. Clear. Time to think of your future its your retirement. Know where you stand. What i can say is that there are many ways to surveil people. Do you believe there was an article that says you can surveil people microwaves that turn into cameras, et cetera. Officers like me have signed secrecy agreements, they quietly go about their work and try not to get too worked up over the headlines, including the fanciful notion that they spy on their fellow citizens via microwave ovens. Yeah, exactly. Wow that was the cia director. Do you know what the kids call that . Kellyanne conway made that ridiculously stupid statement. Its unbelievable she works in the white house. Its unbelievable. Everybody knows that the cia actually listens to us through straws. Due dow notice where theyre always pointing, where were talking. I mean directional mikes. Do you know what you do . Kooky. Paper clips around your ears with tin foil stops, interferes with the signal. Lot of uses for tin foil. Probably the most important. Welcome back to morning joe. Top of the hour and its friday, april 14th. Blessed good friday to all of you. Good friday. Everyone should be nice to each other. We always are. The host of the circus on showtime, Mark Halperin. Polls rter. Msnbc political analyst Steve Schmidt who likens me or the look of me to oxycontin. Notue. When he sees me hes happy. Youre a trigger. When he sees mika, he takes oxycontin. When i was recovering, when the show came on, it was time for pain relief and i looked forward to that every it was like a drinking game. Exactly. When the show came on at 4 00 am mountain time. That would be morning joe. Thats sort of how i feel about it. Columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post David Ignatius. And associated editor for the Washington Post and political analyst eugene robinson. Steve schmidt we start out with this marist poll that Mark Halperin tried to work. Was not successful. Gallup poll had trump going from 54 to 41 this week. It seems to be an upward direction for the most part. Theres still issues of trust. Theres still a concern about him being erratic. But what has this last week weve been trying to figure out exactly whats happened over the past seven days and what it means. What does it mean to you . As we near the end of the first 100 days, which in its totality cannot be judged as successful by any measure, but they are ending better than they began. And theyre ending better than they began because inside the white house serious adults are beginning to assert their can we talk about the tradeups here . National security council, can you think of a more dramatic tradeup from Michael Flynn to swr general mcmaster in all of your years covering politics . No. Its extraordinary. Someone who is accomplished, econoclastic dereliction of duties a must read about the misjudgments in the vietnam war. General mattis, mike pompeo, cia directorraduate of wt point first in his class. Brilliant man. Dena powell. Dena powell. Just like i know jared. Ive known reince for a long time. When dena powell is called a, quote, new york democrat, you have some experience working in the Bush White House with her. I have experience working with her. A little off. Dena powell is no democrat. Shes not. And shes no liberal. But what were seeing is we dont talk about this enough. The steve bannon wing of the white house, hostility to the post world war ii u. S. Led liberal global order is radical. There has never been an adviser, whether on the spectrum from liberal to conservative as radical as he in the west wing of the white house. And these days. Circumvent the globe, good hope or good horn. We are all connected together. The world will not go back to that. Watch out for the scurvy. David ignatius by the way, you dont think were ready for that . David ignatius, this postwar order that is set up is not only the established order, its also self defeating to fht against it. Most perfect example, if you have problems with russia, you need nato. If youre having problems with north korea, you need china. So steve bannon, now completely isolated in the white house. Their approach, it wasnt just, quote, radical, it was self defeating. Wasnt it . It was self defeating. Here is what worries me. I think steve bannon and the deconstructionists are generally dangerous to our prosperity, our leadership in the world but there are a lot of people in the United States who feel that the eleastists have let america d n down, that this isnt their country anymore. Somehow in this new period where i think donald trump is, with his team, becoming a strong leader, moving back toward appropriately toward traditional american policy views, also he has to bring the country along with him. So, all these people who felt so alienated from this global system feel more a stake in it. They feel its more theirs. Thats really the trick. Not that hes going to keep bannon but the bannon supporters. Lets pause and put in the caveat that this could change saturday morning, to be skeptical of any pivot. Youre writing in the Washington Post a piece called we dont know where trump stands. Neither does he. Gene writes so much for donald trump, the America First populist champion of the forgotten working class. The president now sounds pretty much like a gardenvariety globalist, defending the rigged system he denounced during the campaign. Then again hoe knows how hell sound next week . He hasnt even been in office for three full months and trump may already be the most erratic president weve ever seen. Instead however trump has populated his west wing with warring factions that battle one another with a ruthlessness the characters in game of thrones might find excessive. If bannon is toast thats good for the nation and the world but trump still lacks a White House Team capable of executing his vision, or any vision. Do you still feel like there arent the right people around donald trump . Well, you know, first of all, keep in mind what i wrote. Things may change because things always change with donald trump. That said, i think its a great thing for the country if bannon is isolated. Theres no sort of institution al support for his crazy views. It is actually difficult for that to come back. Its not an easy thing. I think you can have more faith than you had weeks ago in the aspect of the Trump Presidency. In the domestic policy aspect, i still dont see any coherence and i dont see how theyre going to get any legislation through. Mark, that follows up what you said yesterday. If he stabilizes his Foreign Policy team as its been over the past week, i think most people would be relieved but he still doesnt have what you said he needed which is an h. R. Mcmaster of domestic policy that can go to him and say, you want to Pass Health Care . Fantastic. Youre never going to do it with the republicans. You need 160 republicans, 40, 45 democrats. This is how you can do it. By the way, dont start in the house. Start in the senate. You need to talk to Chuck Schumer and Mitch Mcconnell and thats where it all begins. Go. But he doesnt have that person. Gary cohn is acquiring a lot of power. Gary cohn, yes. Great tradeup from steve bannon but gary cohn does not know washington, d. C. He does not. Thats not the zblaens not a super partisan guy. The Washington Post front page today. Say what you wish of goldman sachs. They know how to win. They care about winning. Theyre super competitive. The president likes the fact i think the option there is actually dena powell. Hes not james baker, but he is accumulating a lot of power. Look, the next big fight, Foreign Policy being the focus this week, the next big fights when Congress Comes back, health care, taxes, debt ceiling, government shutdown. Those will all require, as you keep saying, deals with democrats. Deals with democrats. Again, love gary cohn. Dont know him but love that hes there and love that hes part of the team that i think is bringing order there. But, again, you need somebody who knows the factions in the house. That knows the factions in the senate. That can tell you every year the most powerful person is the states na. Eader in the united youve got to get around him. Mitch mcconnell is your best ally. Youve got to talk to him. Hes not going to lead you off into an ideological field. He knows how to get things done. That he could help donald trump navigate congress. Not in the republican base. Who is that person, Steve Schmidt . Im not sure who that person is. I do know this, though. When we talk about the uplift on the president s approval numbers its not coincidentally that it took place when congress is out of session. Theyre back and thats like putting a 50pound backpack on as youre climbing up the mountain. It will put more pressure on him. All that congress youngal dysfunction reminds the American People how broken the system is. So donald trump used it as a vessel for an independent candidacy. Whether its health care, tax reform, all this stuff at this moment, you dont see any path to how any of it passes. And they need to have a real legislative strategist, somebody who can deal. Right. When you have the stories of steve bannon in the meeting threatening members of congress, thats not how you deal in washington. Thats how you get crushed. David ignatius, weve always said here a lot of people havent liked it, but weve always said here washington always wins. If you are the head of the Physics Department at m. I. T. , you cant go up there and say, im going to fire all the physics professors and im going to rewrite the laws of physics. There are laws in washington and washington always wins. Do you agree with Steve Schmidt . They need somebody who knows how to work the hill. I absolutely do. What weve seen with Foreign Policy is the success of a team of individuals who are competent, you are experienced, who Work Together easily, who form consensus judgments they take to the president. They already know what they think as a group before they see the president. He needs the same thing on domestic policy. Youve been saying it exactly right. He needs the h. R. Mcmaster of domestic policy. Something more complicated than that. On domestic policy their experience has been a series of failures culminating in the failure of health care legislation. They need to get a team that can craft and then pass really good legislation. And who is going to do that . Right now thats job one. They should stop patting themselves on the back on Foreign Policy and think how do we solve this nut . Gene, donald trump at the end of the day is a ceo. Yeah. If feev bannon came in and failed, as we said earlier, on the travel ban, on repealing obamacare and all those things that were the primary objectives out of the gate for this administration, Donald Trumps not going to have a use for him. No, hes not. And, you know, i think bannon is looking awful sad these days and i think for good reason. Because hes not going to help him get an agenda through congress. But, you know, frankly, i think neither are Reince Priebus and mike pence. Their idea of getting an agenda through congress is to work solely with republicans, basically, to try to get it through. And thats not trumps agenda. Trumps agenda is different from the traditional republican agenda. That abottom nation of a Health Care Bill that they came up with that couldnt fly was, you know, designed to try to get the votes of the freedom caucus. Thats never going to get even moderate republicans, much less democrats or anybody else on board and its not going to satisfy trumps constituency. Youre rig, he needs the mcmaster of domestic policy. I have no idea who that is. Gary cohn is a smart guy but this is a steep learning curve and you need to know people as well as stuff. You need to know people, leverage points and you need to know how to treat them. Threatening them not the way to do it. Its even more complicated than trump having to play to republican. Republicans in the house are far different than republicans in the senate. And if youre sit tlg saying how am i going to get somebody should have told him, mr. President , from day one first of all, dont do health care first. Right. Secondly for every one person you pick up in the House Freedom caucus youre probably going to lose two senators that have to run statewide. None of this stuff is rocket science. You have to count votes. You have to have experience. In order to get to a majority. You also need to communicate about these policies clearly in a way that inspires confidence. Communication operation of the white house, to call it the worst of all time is to an understatement. The previous worst of all time. Really terrible. And absent an ability to communicate, and absent an ability to count votes, and absent an ability to read the political currents and the factions on the hill where we essentially have three political parties, the trump party, the Republican Party and the democratic party, hes not going to be successful. Time will run out as we move into an election year. So looking at this from 30,000 feet, mika, you can break it down this way. Youve got Foreign Policy. For now thats stabilized. Youve got leglative outreach. They need somebody that actually knows how to do that. And the third thing is what steve just brought out. Communication. Communication. They need somebody that can work the hill and can really they need somebody credible and has the guts to be credible, which is a tough job but it can be done. Steve schmidt, thank you very much. Thank you, steve. Eugene robinson. Thank you both. Still ahead on morning joe with north korea possibly gearing up with another nuclear test, President Trump will find himself making another makeshift situation room at maralago this weekend . Thats the question. Cake. Will they have the very large cake . The most beautiful, beautiful cake. Plus what you just saw there, cia director mike pompeo. Exquisite, luscious chocolate. Words for wikileaks and kellyanne conway. But his tone has not always been so critical. Well take a look at what that shift could mean for russias interference in the u. S. Election. Check your microwaves. Sfx engine revving silence are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec® its starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. Well, what are you doing o take care otomorrow 10am . But. Staff meeting. 3 45 . Tai chi. 6 30 . Sams baseball practice. You are busy. Wouldnt it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do . Yeah. Introducing essential portfolios the automated investing solution. Hey. Pass please. Im here to fix the elevator. Nothings wrong with the elevator. Right. But you want to fix it. Right. So who sent you . New guy. What new guy . Watson. My analysis of sensor and Maintenance Data indicates elevator 3 will malfunction in 2 days. 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[ laughs ] get the Fastest Internet and the best inhome wifi from xfinity. And stream on speeds so fast you can catch up on the fast saga before the fate of the furious hits theaters april 14. Xfinity. The future of awesome. Pentagon Officials Say it has dropped its most powerful nonnuclear bomb ever in afghanistan. Joining us from palm beach, florida, Hallie Jackson. What can you tell us about this strike . Reporter a couple hey there, mika. Yeah. A couple of new pieces of information for you. Number one, the pentagon in the last couple of minutes is releasing video of the socalled mother of all bombs and the strike that happened in eastern afghanistan. I think if we have it, well play it for you. This is something thats been used only once before in a test video from about ten years ago. Now this is the real deal. Being used in battle. So youre going to watch this. To be honest, im watching this for the first time as well. Because, again, this is just into us here. This is the video that the pentagon has now released. The Afghan Defense Ministry Says 36 isis fighters were killed. You see the explosion there. When this massive bomb dropped. The u. S. Commander in that region says at this point u. S. Forces are on the ground. They are looking at the aftermath here. They see no evidence of civilian casualties. The commander calling this the right weapon against the right target. Its described as a remote region in eastern afghanistan. As you mentioned, it was meant to target caves and tunnels used by isis fighters. The Afghan Defense Ministry Says three of those tunnels were collapsed when this massive bomb exploded. For President Trump, this is some military muscle behind his tough talk on terror. On the campaign trail again and again, we heard him say he would bomb the hell out of isis, sometimes using more colorful language than that. The president did not need to authorize this particular bomb strike. That could have been done at a lower level. In fact, nbc news has learned from u. S. Military officials that that is exactly what happened. Commanders on the ground made the decision to drop this bomb against this target. The president was asked about this at a socalled pool spray. Here is what he had to say. Everybody knows exactly what happened. I authorize my military. We have the greatest military in the world. Theyve done a job, as usual. We have given them total authorization and thats what theyre doing. Frankly, thats why theyve been so successful lately. If you look whats happened over the last eight weeks and compare that really to whats happened over the last eight years, youll see theres a tremendous difference. Tremendous difference. Reporter taking another look at that video. Now President Trump obviously facing a number of International Flashpoints as he spends the Easter Holiday weekend here in south florida. He got here last night, is expected to stay through sunday, spending time with his family. Notable that his senior staff not with him apparently. They didnt come down on air force one with him. There are no plans, we are told, at least at this point, for those Staff Members to be here over the weekend. Guys . Hallie jackson, thank you very much. Join iing us in studio, nbc new special correspondent tom brokaw. Tom, when we see what happens happened in syria, in the past week or so, and now the mother of all bombs being used, how would you characterize the situation . Well, i congratulations on the success of this mission. I think the president overstates it when he says weve made enormous progress and weve gone way beyond where they have for the last eight years. Weve had these moments along the way in which weve had success targeting different groups of al qaeda in afghanistan and then isis, obviously, in iraq and in the syria area. Ive been in that very part of afghanistan. And it is indescribably remote. E only way that i think you could getohose fighters in the caves is to do exactly what they did. But this is not the end of anything. This is just another episode in a long, long curve of fighting. I do believe that the Obama Administration backed off in the last couple of years and in terms of what they were fighting and how they were fighting them. In syria, moving the red line and not putting together a coalition to go there. We ought not to take from the president s remarks this is an enormous triumph. Its one more battle not the end of a war. And could lead in a number of directions. You can like or not like president obamas Foreign Policy choices but there was a Systematic Campaign to kill off the top echelons of al qaeda in iraq. Yes. It was almost entirely successful. Bin laden was targeted. That was successful. They had enormous success and the president can claim credit as much as he wants for what hes doing currently but theres no reason for him to take shots at the military over the last eight years or any period of time. History is being just a bit rewritten here. No kidding. David ignatius, we have not we. Most of the Foreign Policy has criticized president obama for what he has not done in syria. Theyve begun to tighten the vice on isis, at least in eastern iraq or Eastern Syria and western iraq and had success that now james mattis is expanding upon. One of the Untold Stories of war over the last two years against isis has been the degree to which our special Operations Forces have conducted quite a Ruthless Campaign to take out anyone who was plotting, communicating in any way with operatives. Many of those people are no longer alive because of a very tough line policy that doesnt get much publicity for understandable reasons. Im sure now that donald trump is president he has read more into those policies and knows more about them. I think he does mean it when he says i want to give my commanders more authority to make decisions. We dont want the 5,0 5,000mileanhour screwdriver coming from washington. They dont want that. This is Donald Trumps military. He is the commander in chief. He properly takes pride in it. He thinks about how to use it most wisely. But he should, as was said a moment ago, credit the achievements of the past, part of this story that he now inherits. David is very much aware of this. This war has been going on, even though it has been out of sight for most of us, because the war has now shifted to special operations. Youve got s. E. A. L. Team units and rangers and delta force fighting over there in afghanistan and in iraq. And when they say were not going to put people on the ground now in syria after the bombing, weve already got people on the ground in syria. And we dont know exactly who they are, where they are. But theyre fighting in small units. It comes up when we have a tragedy, like we did in yemen, for example, in which a member of the s. E. A. L. Team was killed. But weve got people in both those places fighting a different kind of war. This big bomb was successful. We hope maybe there will be more successes as well. But its very tough in that landscape especially to fight a conventional war. Rit. You dont hear about the third idea, but force goesing one on one. So difficult and so complex that there are now soldiers fighting over there that were two years old when this war began. Yeah. Thats entirely true. This drove the left crazy during president obamas term. The story of our fight against islamic jihadism and radicalism, from george w. Bush to barack obama, the left hated the fact that obama took what george w. Bush was doing and continued it. Now donald trump is basically going to take what barack obama was doing and george w. Bush did and is continuing it. Not across all Foreign Policy but in terms of fighting radical islamic terror, theres a line of continuity in terms of tactics, strategy and determination. But theyre all part of the same story. Tom, this is what happened from truman to bush 41. We fought a cold war. We had president s that would claw each others eyes out. And from truman to ike to kennedy to johnson to keep going, reagan, george h. W. Bush, there was continuity in the fight in the cold war. The same thing is happening in this fight against terror. Well, take the war piece of it. Then take the other piece of it as well. Ive been talking the last couple of days to a very senior republican statesmen, people who are well versed in Foreign Policy and veterans of our security system, a bit relieved that the president has made a turn in terms of talking to the chinese, for example. Getting, in fact, a true read on what putin is and what hes all about and what we c expect from him. They say, look, you know, were still part of a global system and when he realizes that and we have an action like weve seen in the last couple of days in terms of his ability to sit down with president xi of china, for example, and have what appear to be productive talks we wont know because a weekend at maralago does not define a relationship between two countries. Im sure xi went back to china and had very serious conversations with his leadership. Ive taken a measure of the guy. Here is where were going to go and how were going to get there. This isnt about a handshake and a weekend. Thiscy along curve thing. At least he has not withdrawn the United States from all international cooperation. Right. Now saying nato is more than adequate. Before he was writing it off. Tom, you mentioned putin. Obviously, you were there, covering the cold war up close. You were there when the wall fell in berlin. Rex tillerson goes to russia this week, get ace meeting with putin, sits down with sergey lavrov. They have a frosty press conference where the interference in the election comes up, syria comes up time and again. The relationship between the United States and russia is at a low ebb. How would you compare the way we relate to russia now the way we related to the soviet union back then. Depends what part of the soviet union. Toward the end with gorbachev, he needed our help, frankly. He knew what was coming down and we would have to make it a soft landing for him, in effect, and work out the relationship. He was very unhappy. And putin is, as well, about the reinforcement of nato as a result of what came down at that time. The difference now is that putin is a soviet guy. He is a sovietologist. He wept the night the wall came down. He is a kgb agent. He wants to reactivate what he saw as the glory of the soviet union. Everything he is doing in crimea and ukrain all these actions indicate that they believe relations between the United States and exsoviet union, russia now on the ground in moscow and in russia are the worst that they can remember in a long, long time. Wow we ought not to have any illusions about putin wanting to be great friends with the United States. Its not going to be tom brokaw, thank you he very, very much. The cia director says wikileaks walks and talks like a russias interference with the election is fairly well established. Another change in tone coming from the administration. Were back in a moment. Knowing where you stand has never been easier. Except when it comes to retirement. At fidelity, you get a retirement score in just 60 seconds. And well help you make decisions for your plan. To keep you on track. Its your retirement. Know where you stand. Are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec® its starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. Jack knocked over a candlestick, onto the shag carpeting. And his pants ignited into flames, causing him to stop, drop and roll. Luckily jack recently had geico help him with renters insurance. Because all his belongings went up in flames. Jack got full replacement and now has new pants he ordered from banana republic. Visit geico. Com and see how affordable renters insurance can be. In his first public address since becoming cia director, mike pompeo launched Harsh Criticism at wikileaks and julian assange. As long as they make a splash, they care nothing about the lives they put at risk or the damage they cause to National Security. Wikileaks walks like a Hostile Intelligence Service and talks like a Hostile Intelligence Service. Its time to call them out for what it really is, nonstate Hostile Intelligence Service embedded by players like russia. Shortly after yesterdays speech, wikileaks posted a now deleted tweet from last summer where pompeo highlighted the organizations work, publishing leaked documents from the dnc. Senior National Security analyst and cofounder of the integrity network, who hosted the forum yesterday with the cia director. It must be fascinating. He also talked about microwaves. People werent quite sure what the director was going to talk about. Okay. Big crowd and a lot he could talk about. Syria, isis. He wanted to talk about wikiaks. One reason was the fact that wikileaks has taken aim at the cia directly. He is now the director and pushing back. Pushing back. Wikileaks is the robinhood of First Amendment narratives. He wanted to demonstrate that he has a voice in these National Security issues and he has become a critical voice. He laid out yesterday the fact that he sees the president just about every day. Hes briefing him. He says the president gives him lots of time. So i think he was trying to shape a narrative not just about wikileaks but the role of the Intelligence Committee and how thats playing out in a new administration. David, what did you learn yesterday . I thought pompeo was more forthcoming, talked more about policy, to be honest, as opposed to just intelligence, than i had expected. What i wanted to ask you, juan, the Intelligence Community has been under attack from this president before he was inaugurated and were told peoples morale was hit for a while. Do you have a sense that the agency, Intelligence Community are recovering and how is pompeo doing in leading that group of pretty bruised individuals right now . In fact, i asked him that question yesterday and he said the relationship is actually fantastic and you got some giggles in the crowd as a result. But he was honest about that. I think morale is much better than people had thought. We talked about this yesterday, david, in a panel that you hosted. I think morale is much better and events like this are an attempt by the director to not only defend the interest of the agency as a whole but to signal back into langley that this is a director that has their back, thats willing to defend the interest of the agency as a whole. And you heard throughout high praise from the director of the men and women of the cia and i was a recruitment tool, too. He was calling on people to ply the cia. I think from his perspective, morale is much better and the fact that the president and the white house are now focusing on and relying on intelligence for example, in the syrian reaction, that in and of itself is a good signal. And i think this will mature over time, as we talked about yesterday. Is there a man who can talk back to donald trump . I think so. You heard this yesterday. He said, look, we are presenting things to the president that run counter to some of his assumptions. And the president actually is accepting that. And is willing to hear that. And i think director pompeo is a smart man. He graduated number one in his class from west point. Something that donald trump will tell you any time you bring his name up. Trump respects that. And he respects pompeo. Which goes to the question of will he listen to pompeo . Apparently he is. Absolutely. And thats the benefit of having the silver backs around President Trump. Youve got somebody like pompeo, who brings a lot of respect with him. Tillerson who is well known and well respected, mattis, mad dog. All these characteristics play to what President Trump probably likes, which is big boys and girls in the room who can tell it like they see it. And he probably does listen. And i think, again, the encouraging note here is that the administration is taking in intelligence. Its questioning it. And what mike pompeo said yesterday is they are taking it in in massive amounts. Theres a real demand for it. You see why. You have syria, north korea, all these questions where stenlgs critical. Where did you pick up is his and the cias greatest area of concern right now . We hear a lot about north korea right now. Obviously, russia is always on the radar. What do they seem to be most focused on and most worried about . We did a tour of the world in 60 minutes. Everything from north korea to terrorism to russia. There is a lot of concern around north korea. The director said look, this ministration is now saddled with the fac that north korea is much closer to Nuclear Capabilities and Nuclear Capabilities that can then be deployed potentially on a missile that can reach the u. S. Homeland. That is a game changer and thats why President Trump has said and you heard secretary of state tillerson say this strategy of strategic patience is over visavis china posturing more. The uss carl vinson moving into the space, preemptive attack. All of this is a signal change the landscape and the dynamic. My sense is that theyre really worried about this. North korea is a wild card and thats a real dangerous situation. Let me ask you quickly actually, i have two questions to ask. I only have time for one. Lets see. Flip a coin. I wanted to ask you the downside of people quietly celebrating russia. Ill ask my tillerson question later. So, what is the downside of these negative relations with russia . Weve all been so suspicious of the Trump Administrations close ties to russia that were almost everybody is breathing a sigh of relief that were now back to cold war status with russia. Whats the downside of that . And whats the upside of actually having a Good Relationship . The downside is its just too dangerous to have two so heavily armed powers in a confrontational mode. It was something that president obama kind of let get out of hand. And i think trump was right to say that we should work to get a more stable relationship and reduce attention and danger where possible, where interests coincide, Work Together. The problem is that the activities of the russian Intelligence Service in our elections overlay all of this. And somehow he has got to separate it. He has to say on the political plane i have instructed my secretary of state to have serious conversations with president putin to resolve our problems. Meanwhile, the fbi will have this investigation and it will lead to wherever it does. Thats the trick, to get the two going strongly. I worked with the russians. We needed to work with them on counterterrorism, counterproliferation, counternarcotics. The challenge, joe, is that they can be a huge disrupter. They can threaten nato partners. They can do things in cyberspace. This is a really potentially dangerous situation. You need them on your side in many ways. You dont want to be confrontational aat all times but you do need to push back. Llingness toush back in ways that the Prior Administration isnt willing to, in the way that is demonstrative, to effect things like chinas relationship with north korea . I know we have to go. The last administration wasnt willing to push back on russia. Yet the relationship deteriorated. Putin began to take him for granted, take him as a joke. He thought Hillary Clinton was his worst enemy. You know, he got pretty arrogant toward the end there. Putin . Putin, yeah. Joe, part of it was we continue to go back to moscow. You look at the trajectory of what happened. Even the chemical weapons deal. We relied on russia to pull us out of that situation and all roads then led to moscow. You saw lots of middle east leaders going to moscow. Netanyahu from israel heading to moscow. Everyone was facing toward russia. It put russia in a much more powerful position, even to the point where they were having peace negotiations in syria without the United States. And let us just say, much more powerful position until last thursday night. Well most of us would agree that dynamic shift aid bit. As the white house official said, they are catching, for a change, instead of pitching. Yeah. Okay. Juan zarate, thank you so much. Great to have you on. Thank you. Yesterday, joe gave us his tutorial on how congressmen and women should handle all those contentious town halls. Up next, one oklahoma congressman gave us a clinic on what not to do. Oh, no. Okay. These always make me thats ahead. You totanobodys hurt, new car. But there will still be pain. It comes when your Insurance Company says theyll only pay threequarters of what it takes to replace it. What are you supposed to do . Drive threequarters of a car . Now if you had Liberty Mutual new car replacement™, youd get your whole car back. I guess they dont want you driving around on three wheels. Smart. With Liberty Mutual new car replacement™, well replace the full value of your car. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Its my decision to make its nbeauty last. Ix. Roc® retinol started visibly reducing my fine lines and wrinkles in one week. And the longer i use it, the better it works. Retinol correxion® from roc methods, not miracles. ™ well, what are you doing o take care otomorrow 10am . But. Staff meeting. 3 45 . Tai chi. 6 30 . Sams baseball practice. You are busy. Wouldnt it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do . Yeah. Introducing essential portfolios the automated investing solution. Neil gorsuch was the First Supreme Court justice ever to be fiphilly buchfilibustered and n hell be the last to be filibustered. If he was the first to be filibustered what happened to Merrick Garlands vote . [ applause ] i think Merrick Garland was a great man and good judge. But what happened in the senate last year, you may not have liked it but it was not without precedent. In fact i cant. Can we stop . All right, that was republican senator from arizona hosting a town hall that political reporters said to be left leaning. It sounded it way. Afterwards on twitter, thats an example of how to handle a hostile town hall crowd. Well then theres this. In oklahoma when congressman Mark Wayne Mullen tried to explain his congressional pay. You said you pay for me to do this, i pay enough taxes before i got there and continue there to pay my own salary. This is a service, no one pays me to go. I do it thats salary im just saying he should know better. This is a service for me, not a career and i thank god oh, please. I have paid it back. Every year would be great. Heres the deal on this one, guys, im going 42 weeks out of the year and do my best to serve you guys. But theres also some facts that you guys either want to hear or you dont. People say were trying to get rid of preexisting conditions. They stay put, as far as being mandated to drive for insurance, youre not required to drive. If you dont want to drive, you dont have to have insurance. If you are on the road, make sure you can pay for the person you hit. Thats the mandate maam, please, i know you had a lot of coffee this morning but give me a second. Willie . I think its reverse well, i think people picked up on the salary thing. I pay for my own salary. That he runs a bunch of small businesses, including a Plumbing Company and pay so much more in tax through than that i would ever make in salary was his explanation for that. I didnt think that was as bad as the print story was. I think it was probably had a lot of coffee. Did he call her a hockey puck. I think that guy has a futd you future. Everyone likes what he did im not saying i like it heres the thing, he doesnt pay for his salary. Taxpayers pay for his salary, it service. To the community, yes, i suppose it is, but they are his boss, they pay his salary. If he doesnt like it, he can come home and make more money. Yes, unless theres some facts were unaware of where he donates his salary back to the United States treasury, its the case. In either case, no matter who pays the salary, there still is constituents and people voted him in and still owes his job to them and and should be responsive not dismissive. He is their servant. Yes. They pay him. Im just saying instead of melting like jeff flake i dont think he melted. He looked like he was melting. Well, he wasnt jeff flake in terms of younger guy. He was doing very zen guy. Id keep an eye on younger guy, we dont know who he is. Wayne mullen. Were different that way. I think actually youve had an evolution over the years. Towards what . Oh, come on, youve learned audiences. Youve learned them. I dont know that ive evolved. Like everyone else, ill be proven right, it will take a few years. New video from the pentagon this morning. So it be. Actually, willie and i have a friend at the holiday inn. Soviet era black market cigarettes that willie and i insist on. They fall off a truck. New video of the pentagon of the moment the u. S. Dropped the mother of all bombs on isis on afghanistan. Plus two things are coming together this weekend, one is the distinct possibility of a sixth north korean Nuclear Weapon s det nation and the othr is a great deal of fire power headed at the korean peninsula. Looking for clear answers for your Retirement Plan . Start here. At fidelity, we let you know where you stand, so when it comes to your Retirement Plan, youll always be absolutely. Clear. Its your retirement. Know where you stand. I use whats already inside me to reach my goals. So i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating whats within me with onceweekly trulicity. Trulicity is not insulin. 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In some cases the issues evolve that its not just a clear and fast statement that this is that entity itself is moving towards his or the issue is evolving towards the position that he articulated and that cant be proven more true in the case of nato. Good morning, its friday, april 14th. Pretty good song. It is. Welcome to morning joe. We have columnist and associate editor of the Washington Post, David Ignatius. And Mark Halperin and John Hielemann. And mark is analyst for wheres hielemann . The bunker. I like it. Heavy circus presence here. Did you notice David Ignatius smiled when we introduced him . I snuck in. Jeffrey goldberg would not do that yesterday and do you know somebody wrote up an article somebody said i was sexist for telling him to smile twice. Come on. Whats wrong with being sexy . Thats one of the best lines in spinal tap. Thank you rob rhine erooiner fo. Good, my daughter is awake. Im the wakeup call. They always text her. A new poll this morning from Marist College gives opinions of the Trump Presidency nearly a week after ordering military strikes in syria. The president s Approval Rating stands at 39 , up 1 point from late march while the percentage of those who disapprove is down 2 points to 49 . 56 of americans favor limited u. S. Air strikes on military targets in syria but 59 dont believe President Trump knows what he wants the United States to do there, just 34 believe he has a plan. 49 disapprove of how trump is handling Foreign Policy. Thats a 7point improvement from february. And 40 approve up 3 points. As for the impact of his decisions, 40 of americans say he is strengthening the u. S. On the world stage. Up five points, 49 say he is weakening the u. S. Which has fallen from 56 earlier. However, only 42 have trust in him to make the right decision in an international crisis. 55 do not. 39 trust him to weigh all of the options before acting during a crisis, 58 do not. You know, there has been obviously its safe to say were in a period of transition. And i think you can see that in the numbers. Theres a leading sometimes there are leading indicators and sometimes they are not. I know the gallup poll has trump up 5 points over the last week and not as Much Movement in the marist poll but a lot of people waiting and seeing how it turns out. It is in line with much of the others, did not revolutionize what people thought of the president but you see incremental improvement. Has he moved to be a more establishment figure at least on Foreign Policy . Does he see positive reinforcement and continue in that direction or extend that when Congress Comes back to things Like Health Care or tax reform . All right, David Ignatius, you write this in a column called trump gets a taste of success. Trump is making gains because he is assembled a Competent National Security Team and listens to its advice. There was a consensus among the top advisers for a quick limited strike on a syria air base and trump took the recommendation. He didnt amplify or augment or otherwise disrupt with his own tweets but he allowed the process to work. If trump goes back to free wheeling tweeter in chief role or if the disruptive would be chief strategist steven k. Bannon regains influence then chaos can return. For now trump has bonded with his core team over the past week and trump has adopted a different approach, more careful and consensual and brings him closer to the Foreign Policy mainstream but it also gives him a taste of the success he craves. A lot of people calling me up, what are you thinking about all of these changes and expect me to go im shocked. Its kind of like somebody invest your money in the stock market and theyve lost your money for the past 60 days and suddenly they start making great investments. Im not going to criticize that. Weve all prepared for trump the disaster, trump the you know, how do you handle trump the succs if we keep movingn this direction . Well see. Think the public is right to be skeptical. Those numbers are interesting. Greater support but still a lot of misgivings reflected in those numbers. Its clear to me that trump has bonded with had core group and you list his secretary of defense jim mattis and rex tillerson, certainly list his soninlaw Jared Kushner as in house whisperer to the president and new deputy security adviser and her boss h. R. Mcmaster. When you have a crisis and do well at solving it, theres something that happens. I we all know that in life. You bond with the people youre with and say we can do this. Thats what i think weve been watching over the past week. They can still begin to raffle apart. I think the president could come back to being the disrupter, something goes wrong, he has surprises and reacts and in a doubles down tomorrow is saturday morning, you never know. When he gets up in the morning, its a new morning. Its a new morning. Hes reading columns like this. Hes getting approval. He is on one level the king of the flipflop, you have to say. His positions on key issues are radically different than they were during the campaign. But hes also becoming a credible leader in Foreign Policy with a strong team and i would say some real successes. He also its very interesting with russia. David you had said early on when trump took the call from the taiwa taiwanese leader, throwing china off is not the worst thing in the world. They are always throwing us a bit off. I think trump proved you right by a very positive meeting with the chinese that came over and they get to go back and say we sat down with this guy that was talking to taiwan and look, we had a very russia, were hearing the same thing about russia. Ambassador mcfall, long been a trump critic, Vladimir Putin thou thought he had a dupe in the white house, now hes scratching his head, what the hell do i do next. The american air strike on the air base in syria didnt do that much. A day and 59 tomahawk cruise missiles, assad is still in power and still flying and dropping bombs and killing people in the same province where a syrian gas attack killed people last week. But what the strike did do is radically alter the power dynamic between moscow and washington that putin spent the last three years establishing. One in which putin acts and washington gob smacked scrambles to reacts. It is putin and his government that is reacting and he is learning the same same thing that jeb bush and marco rubio and ted cruz and all of these people that thought they were so much smarter than dumb donald trump learned in the campaign. Somebody in the white house said to me over the last week, so the russians are catching for a change rather than pitching. Russians have been pitching and calling the shots. Now they are having to react to u. S. Policy and thats precisely what trump wanted and i think that it has real benefits. Just would stress on china, the fact is that trump had to pay the ticket of admission. He started off destabilizing, ill readvice the the taiwan issue and the chinese said president xi will not talk to you. Hes not going to pick up the phone and talk to you until you clarify that. Im told trump in a white house meeting said so clarify, get it done. This is what it takes to have this dialogue, then lets get it done. Thats when this gins. But it did mean backing off of some of his earlier rhetoric. Big wipicture, when we look the week that was and tomorrow is saturday and you never know what can happen, but in this moment you see trump following through on something he always said he would do. Especially on the world stage and that is always keep people guessing. And russia right now is in the position to be most surprised because for months he has been vexing the entire Media Community and the World Community as to why he is so whats the word . Almost positive and at times ridiculously positive about Vladimir Putin. On seek quee us and all of a sudden things have changed. Same could be said for china. The entire premise of the campaign, were getting screwed and ripped off by china and bad actors and currency manipulators and that all changed after the meeting with xi, moving carrier groups towards the korean peninsula, sending messages to north korea. John hielemann, i would go to you and talk about David Ignatius point who the president is listening to. It appears to be the tighten inner circle, trump would say bannon helped me become president but the decisions on the muslim ban and travel ban and health care repeal, all of the things that didnt pan out, his loyalty has limits and he wants to go with people who will get me wins and he appears to have gotten a few on the Foreign Policy front this week. For a lot of people who are concerned about donald trump as commander in chief, certainly people who on the left side of the political spectrum but people in the mainstream conservative side of the spectrum, they look at the notion as john mccain said to us last week that the biggest thing that he took out of the Syrian Strike last friday was it looks like donald trump is listening to the generals and that gives me cause for some degree of greater comfort and confidence and i think thats true across much of the mainstream political spectrum, that those you may disagree with any policy decision or preference those people have, but people like mcmaster and people like general mattis, these are serious people, sober people and the fact that trump seems to be leaning on to them now in a way he wasnt necessarily before, gives you some sense not just that hes becoming more conventional president potentially but also one who understands that he knows to some extent at least hes starting to know what he doesnt know. A week after the strikes, its some media writers will oversimplify this and say its just about the strikes and people no, its great comfort from what he said about nato, the fact that russia is back on their heels and the fact we have a stronger relationship with china after he was promising 40 i have to say knowing trump he said in real time, thats thats the Real Estate Developers opening bid. You go in hard. Same with putin was his opening bid. And it could be the same thing with putin. Taking advantage of the fact that congress is away and hes got the stage to himself and made announcements this week on a bunch of issues but the thing you said about ted cruz and jeb bush, particularly ted cruz and marco rubio is exactly right. Donald trump uses carrots and sticks, most human beings have the capacity just carrots or maybe just sticks because thats the mode youre in with them. He can do carrots and stick one day simultaneously. China, very close to, good personal relationship, talking about working together and russia, he was now very tough, keeping people unsettled and being willing to switch on a dime and its worked this week on Foreign Policy. David, scared the hell. It has risk. Scared the Foreign Policy community and world and allies, but again, its a big but, if this is what it leads , tn thats a positive thing. Just again, like you said before, we dont know whats coming next, we do know hes listening to the right people. His people will make the argument that some disrupt is necessary and people are so comfortable with their expectations about what america would and wouldnt do and we were sort of fixed in place in peoples minds. Im struck by the way in which trump is playing a game that i remember from Richard Nixon, which is a game of triangular world with the u. S. , russia and china and you play one off against the other and move back and move forth and constant dialogue, you leverage one against the other. That was what kissinger thought was the heart of good policy in a period after vietnam when the u. S. Was sort of weak and struggling to find its way back and kissinger had this vision and i think hes been feeding some of that to Jared Kushner, who i cant help but see as kissingers pro to jay in this white house. Still ahead on morning joe, every president makes policy shifts, just maybe not so much in the same week. Michael beschloss brings us examples of past administrations and what it says about the current commander in chief. Plus, the pentagon flexes its muscle in afghanistan in a strike that could echo all the way to north korea. Well talk about that next on morning joe. After becoming one of the largest Broadband Companies in the country. After expanding our Fiber Network coast to coast. These are the places we call home. 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Because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. Go to xfinity. Com myaccount Everybody Knows exactly what happened and what i do is authorize my military. We have the greatest military in the world and theyve done a job as usual. We have given them total authorization. And thats what they are doing. And frankly, thats why theyve been so successful lately, if you look at whats happened over the last eight weeks and compare that to whats happened over the last eight years, youll see theres a tremendous difference, tremendous difference. That was the president yesterday talking about the u. S. Deploying the most powerful nonnuclear bomb in the arsenal that reportedly killed as many as 36 suspected isis fighters. Nicknamed the mother of all bombs, used by the terror group in the eastern part of the country. During an event at the white house yesterday President Trump did not answer directly whether or not he authorized the use of this massive bomb. The decision to drop this bomb comes one day after President Trump announced hes acceptsend h. R. Mcmaster to afghanistan to assess whether more u. S. Forces are needed to turn around the war in that country. Now in its 15th year. Wow. Okay. David ignatius, let me ask you about the bomb that was dropped on afghanistan yesterday, some people surmise it was not as much about killing that group of isis fighters as sending a country to Nuclear Countries to remind them we have something that can penetrate underground from a siacilities. I get this is a general message from trump, the lid is off, were prepared to use weapons that might restricted before. I would say it is a strange use of this very large ordinance, ive been in that area of afghanistan, its very rural and remote. You cant help think its an attempt to intimidate physically intimidate the fighters there, p thats part of war always. But i think the statement is hey, folks, the gloves are off and the military benefits of using it in afghanistan this way, probably limited. And the signal is, John Hielemann and i dont say this in a disparaging way at all, but this would be what the Trump Administration would want the world to know, that barack obama is no longer president of the United States if you act badly on the international stage, trumps people would say theres not going to be a wringing of hands and were not going to sit and talk about this for months and months and then not act. United states is going to use its military when it feels its in its best interest to use its military and going to be far more aggressive about it than the 44th president. Certainly as long as you characterize that as the way the administration thinks about it and not necessarily the way everybody thinks about it, thats exactly right. They want to draw a very bright line and i think the syria case is one where obviously because of the history, its a place where they can draw the clearest distinction, for good or bad. Without making any policy judgment about the outcome, this was a case where faced with similar circumstances the Obama Administration did reached that fork in the road and did one thing and the Trump Administration did Something Else. Now people who are defenders of the Obama Administration, will seek out he did seek out force in syria and congressional didnt want any part of it. The question becomes, joe, given the balance trump tried to draw during the campaign between being tough and also being restrained. If were going to see projections of military strength in a bunch of places, what happened to that core what people thought was a core Bedrock Foundation of his outlook on the world and how much more indiscriminate is it going to get . A guy who was once we ought to be the worlds policemen, will he play cop in a bunch of different places. North korea may go nuclear to mark the birth of its founding leading. Safe to say President Trump will not be celebrating. How will china react . David ignatius weighs in on that ahead. Morning joe is coming right back. With e trades powerful trading tools, right at your fingertips, you have access to indepth analysis, level 2 data, and a team of experienced traders ready to help you if you need it. Its like having the power of a trading floor, wherever you are. Its your trade. E trade. Start trading today at etrade. Com are you one sneeze away from being voted out of the carpool . Try zyrtec® its starts working hard at hour one and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. Stick with zyrtec® and muddle no more®. Whats the story behind Green Mountain coffee and fair trade . Lets take a flight to colombia. This is boris calvo. Boris grows mindblowing coffee. And because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. All for a smoother tasting cup. Green mountain coffee. Welcome back, multiple senior officials tell nbc news america is prepared to launch a preemptive strike if it believes north Korean Leader kim jongun will launch a Nuclear Weapons test. Tactics could include cyber war fare and special ops on ground. A large scale military parade expected for saturday, the 105th anniversary of kim ilsungs birth. The top north korean official says a nuclear test will take place wherever its leader sees fit. Yesterday President Trump tweeted i have great confidence china will properly deal with north korea. If they are unable to do so, the u. S. With its allies will, usa. Leon panetta said the United States must grapple with the threat that north korea is a nuclear nation. If we were to try to attack them, they would virtually wipe out seoul and 20 Million People who live in seoul. And if it became a nuclear war, which is likely, millions of lives would be lost and thats the reason we havent pulled the trigger. The fact is weve used both containment and deterrence as a principle policy here. I think frankly in the end thats what were left with, whether we like it or not. And frankly, it was containment and deterrence that ultimately resulted in the soviet union selfdestructing. Many people in the white house have pushed back against our nbc report saying it wouldnt be a preemptive strike but they would be prepared to retaliate. A lot to digest here, first of all we have the greatest of respect for leon panetta, he could be secretary of defense for life as far as im concerned. Containment deferns worked and whatever we have done has been an abysmal failure with north korea, starting back in 1994 with bill clinton deciding that he was going toend jimmy carter over. I mean, theyve lied to us one time after another after another. That said, even with the white house pushing back, i was jarred yesterday when i read this tweet and also jarred when i heard sean spicer say and all he was doing was echoing what the president said, the chinese we can take care of this or we can take care of this. Ive said around this set that may be where we have to end up if that means stopping a Nuclear Strike on seattle. Its one thing to say that around the set but coming from the president or the president s spokesman, that is jarring and that is far different than a missile strike on a runway in syria. They have terrible choices with north korea. Its a situation where carrots have not worked, sticks have not worked, the inextrickable process has continued. And trump and his advisers but i would say the pentagon behind them, have said that we need to deal with this before north korea has the ability to deliver Nuclear Weapon on the u. S. Territory. As difficult as this problem is now, think what it would be in two years. Isnt that the problem with containment and deterrence . The soviets i can say this now without people going crazy, the soviets militarily were conservative with the small c. They would go into hundred g gr they had to and afghanistan, but they would do something that something in the 60s a. Something in the 70s, were a couple of years away from seattle facing a Nuclear Strike trump has said the trick he may have pulled off is to draw the chinese into a recognition that it is better to deal with this now than later. And the chinese would be helpful to us as opposed to on instructing us as they have in the past. If trump has done that in this very early summit meeting with xi, i would say all of all of these achients weaver t s weve about, thats the one that matters. What are sources telli you . Do they feel they are moving china in that direction . Yes, i think the white house feels that the xi meeting was precisely what they wanted, which was a real chance for these two people to get to know each other and talk on foreign basis for making tough decisions. The fact since that meeting they talked twice on the phone and clearly trump clearly said theres a big u. N. Vote coming up on syria. We sure would be happy if you on stained and never seen that in a while. This is a real relationship, transactional, were working together and i think the chinese have sent that message to north korea, dont think that were going to bail you out. We think youre destabilizing region and basically saying were with the u. S. In wanting this defused. Coming up on morning joe, United Airlines is reexamining how it handles oversold flights. That will likely not include physically yanking passengers from the seats and making them bloody. Can i ask quickly, the cable news networks, that lawyer was on for 14 hours, we get it. Whos going to drop the lawyer first . Enjoying himself. For 14 hours. Better call saul. The guy said getting off that flight was worse than vietnam. Yeah, he must have i guess he had first class tickets out of vietnam, all of the people i know that flied vietnam, that was pretty rough too. Anyhow, cable news at its best. Tom costello has new details on what could be a very pricey lawsuit. We can do that in two minutes or less. Thats ahead on morning joe. Were not going to do that. Whats the story behind Green Mountain coffee and fair trade . Lets take a flight to colombia. This is boris calvo. Boris grows mindblowing coffee. And because we pay him a fair price, he improves his farm and invest in his community to make even better coffee. All for a smoother tasting cup. Green mountain coffee. How to win at business. Step one point decisively with the arm of your glasses. Abracadabra. The stage is yours. Step two choose la quinta. The only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free nightinstantly and win at business. President reagan offered a softer line on the sof receisov. The speech came as several polls indicate that the public is concerned about his hard line attitude towards moscow. Gone were references as an evil empire. The president wants to reduce the use of force and International Disputes and cut weapons stock piles. That was from nbc nightly news in january of 1984 covering Ronald Reagan pulling back from the tough rhetoric on the soviet union. Compare that to the shifts were seeing by President Trump, some counts four in one day this past wednesday. Joining us from washington, author and nbc news contributor michael beschloss, editor of ti time and coauthor of the president s club, nancy gibbs, Mark Halperin and David Ignatius back with us as well. Looking at the changes in the past weeks, sometimes in one day, michael beschloss, ill start with you, any precedent for that in history . Well, i think it depends on what this turns out to be, if this was just sort of one twoweek period that was sort of a fluke and then we go on to changes in other areas, then were back to first couple of months in this administration, but i would like to think that what this was was the first two months of trump sort of a shakedown period where bannon and flynn were there and now he realizes that if he wants to be a successful president , hes got to get people around him who know what he does not know. Ronald reagan did this, george shultz, jim baker, foreign and domestic. When you try and think of the way trump thinks, David Ignatius, there was an interesting con influence of events this week or past ten days where you had the obvious horrific video coming out of syria of the gas attacks. You had the pressure to remove bannon and the moves to get him out of there. And the score board, no points on the board for this president domestical domestically. It seemed like in some ways it could have been a good merging of events and personalities. I was struck by the way in which the president last week took ownership of moral responsibility for being president. He talked so emotionally about the pictures of of the little children that have been gassed in syria and then he said this is my responsibility now, his initial response was to blame obama, obamas weakness led us to this but then as he got into it, he seemed to realize, no, this is mine. Moving forwardrom that i thought he did take ownership more of the presidency than he had in the first two months. Willie geist. I guess the question weve been asking for three or four days, does it stick . We learned rightly to be skeptical when President Trump presents himself one way and could be Something Else by tomorrow morning. Who knows. Whats your sense, is this a real evolution, president whos learning about the job, never who never participated in politics before . Well, we know about him that he i think he likes what works and what he was doing wasnt working. And so in that sense, he was not going to keep doing it, the definition of insanity is thinking that would change. But this is day 85. This is still a very unfinished portrait. The big question well be watching as youve been pointing out this morning, when Congress Comes back and this is about domestic policy, will we see a different tone . Will we see few erer insends da tweets and more practical common sense, what can i get done to put wins on the board. Its one thing to do it in Foreign Policy than what well see Going Forward when he faces the debt ceiling and health care and tax reform and what lies ahead on the agenda. Michael beschloss, lets go to fantasy land and pretend as soon as possible, joe. What happened in the past week will be consistent trump policy for the next three and a half years. Right. If that is in fact the case, do you agree with David Ignatius, that hes triangulating china and russia . What president ial policy does the last week of what youve seen, what does that bring to mind to you . If there is a doctrine, i guess what we would look for is earlier times when a president what a doctrine usually is is not two days of bombing in afghanistan and syria and then we all say isnt that terrific, we got a doctrine now. What it usually is is a president saying ive got a strategy, thats what ragen did at the beginning. Once i have done that, i think they pursue for peace and thats what happened. Peter baker reported that the emerging trump doctrine was dont follow doctrine. Right. He believes in being unpredictable. Hes made that clear and so what the next unpredictable thing well see from this man, its hard to know. Michael, youve looked at so many president s and seen president s succeed and fail. Is there if you could have a five minutes with President Trump tomorrow, what would you tell him about how not to blow it in this moment where he seems to be getting a little momentum . I think one thing is what youve all been saying this morning, which is getting the expertise he really needs in areas that he does not know about. Foreign policy and military policy, hes shown hes willing to do that. Domestic policy, you know, lets see if he finds the current day, youre not going to find one but a current day version of jim baker and the other thing is, i just have to say it, this is a very ahistorical president , its not someone were talking about the reagan doctrine, im not sure he knows that history. One thing that really is a threat that runs through every great president that i can think of is at least knowing what president s in history have done to become successful. Youll never find an exact parallel, but if you just ignore all of that, youre not benefitting from the successes and failures that president s have made for 200 years and same is true with citizens. All right, nancy gibbs, i want to talk about your cover because i have been following actually sheryl sandberg, especially so since her husband passed away and thought her first blogs in the weeks after his death were some of the most incredible writings i have ever read and that she has ever done. Shes now written a book and talking more about grief and about time off and about recovery. Can you tell us about what you why you put this on the cover . Because once again, sheryl has found a way to take a conversation that we all as humans have in this case about how you try to help someone who is facing terrible adversity and how often we get it wrong. Where i think she was so compelling in that inkrcredible post a month after her husband died, saying all of these things she would realize she would say to people who just gotten a terrible diagnosis or lost someone they loved were exactly the wrong thing to say. She now heard all of these things people were saying to her meant to be kind and like what so we know what not to say. Its going to be okay. The best you can sort of hope for is it will be okay today or that people when she went back to work who were saying dont worry if we can help you if youre not able to finish your assignments or get your work done. Which was meant to be supportive and helpful. And her confidence was so shattered that everyone who was trying to take her workload off just signaled to her, we dont think youre competent to get the job done right now. And it created this sort of vicious spiral. She talks about the three ps that you think that this sorrow is somehow your fault, is wall to wall in your life and will last forever its personal and pervasive and permanent. Those are three myths of grief that shes trying to look at and say, none of those three things has to be true. Its okay to laugh and have a sense of humor. Theres so many taboos around grief which makes it hard to talk about so we talk about it badly. Shes helping us find a better way to talk about it and in a way for her something thats good and healthy and constructive come out of this situation that was so fundamentally tragic in her life and her familys li. Michael beschloss, thank you as well. Up next, the incident with a man getting dragged off the united flight siz about the state of morality and Corporate Culture in america and why you may hear about it in your Easter Sunday sermon. Keep it right here on morning joe. A Millie Dresselhaus doll happy birthday, sweetie oh, millies. 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Also try listerine® pocketpaks for fresh breath on the go. You totanobodys hurt, new car. But there will still be pain. It comes when your Insurance Company says theyll only pay threequarters of what it takes to replace it. What are you supposed to do . Drive threequarters of a car . Youd get your whole car back. I guess they dont want you driving around on three wheels. Smart. With Liberty Mutual new car replacement™, well replace the full value of your car. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Really nice. Now to the latest on the man dragged off that united flight earlier this week. Nbc news correspondent tom costello has the new details from Reagan National airport. Tom . Hey, mika, good morning. We now know that those Airport Security officers who boarded the plane and roughed up dr. Dao they were wearing jackets that said police on the back. They were not police. They had been told in january to op wearing those jackets, but they were wearing them anyway. Meanwhile, dr. Dao, who fled the vietnam war in 1975, says what happened to him on sunday, was far more terrifying. Five days since he was violently dragged from flight 3411. My god, what are you doing . Reporter dr. David daos family says he remains badly shaken. What happened to my dad should have never happened to any human being, regardless of the circumstance. Reporter his injuries include a concussion, broken nose, sinus injuries that will require Reconstructive Surgery and two teeth knocked out. I have to go home. I have to go home. Reporter and he says he has no memory of running back on board the plane, bloodied and distraught after being dragged off. Daos attorneys promised to take legal action against united and the city which employs the Airport Security officers who boarded the plane. I think what happened to dr. Dao could have happened to any one of us. Reporter on thursday a united representative appeared before the Chicago City Council to apologize. We deeply, deeply regret what happened and we commit to you that this type of situation will never happen again aboard our aircraft. Reporter the airline now pledging to no longer ask any Law Enforcement personnel to remove performings from planes passengers from planes unless a matter of safety and security. Its reexamining how it handles oversold flights and the incentives it offers passengers to give up their seats. One city alderman is concerned chicago citizens will have to foot a big bill. It is especially troublesome to chicago taxpayers that now they will be saddled with lawsuits alleging misconduct by city employees. Reporter legal experts say chicago and united should both worry. Were looking at damages in the multiple millions of dollars. He suffered not only physical injuries that are more severe than initially thought, but the public humiliation because this video has been seen around the world. Reporter you may recall this was a United Airlines regional jet operated by republic airways. United has taken full responsibility and the pilots union has come out and say they are infuriated by what happened and blame it on the airport Security Team who they claim used, quote, gross excessive force. Mika, back to you. Tom, thank you. Joining us now editor at large of National Catholic magazine america and jesuit priest father james martin, just appointed by pope francis, appointed as a consultant to the vatican secretariat for communications and rabbi matthew, senior rabbi for congregation in new jersey. Good to have you both on. Thank you for being with us. Good friday. Is this the holiest of all christian days . Well, actually that would be easter, but good friday is one of them. Its the time we commemorate jesus death on the cross and interestingly, as i was looking at that poor man being dragged through the aisles i thought, you know, jesus is beaten and bloodied and dragged through the streets of jerusalem and that poor man is beaten and bloodied and dragged through the floor of a plane and i think something really in us recoils at that and it should. Its our conscience speaking saying thats not the way to treat people. Rabbi, passover, talk about the significance of passover . Passover is the jewish story of redemption and freedom and lots of things to cover, passover seda, the eagle maniacale farrow, reticent moses, this is a holiday of hope. I had a student who came to me about 18 years ago and said rabbi i want to convert and i said tell me why. He says i want to know your secret. I said secret. He said yeah, you jews have a secret. I thought i must have missed that. And he says, its about the moon. I said what about the moon. Then i realized what he was saying. Jews and muslims follow the lunar calendar and he said in the beginning of the month the moon is a sliver and no one in the world if you came from se place else would think that mn could be full again but two weeks later its full of light like trees are baron in the winter and become flush in the spring, the ground is frozen in the winter and becomes beautified with flowers, the same thing with our souls. This is the time of year we realize we, too, like nature, can be new, rejuvenate and be whole once again. Thats really, father martin, easter weekend, is such a time of hope for christians as well, isnt it . Oh, sure. I mean easter really is the reason for our faith. The message of easter is that christ has risen, he was in the tomb for three days and raised from the dead. More fundamentally that nothing is impossible with god. That love is always greater than hatred. Hope triumphs over despair. And that theres always something new around the corner. So i think for people who feel despair in their lives that the easter message is the central message of you are faith. David . I wanted to ask both, father martin and the rabbi, this is a time when we are on the edge of war and peace. We have military attacks on syria, we have looming confrontation this weekend with north korea, what should people of faith at this time of the year, special time of the year, what would you like them to think . Let me ask father martin first and then well i would say first of all, prayer is very important, but also, one of the things that st. John paul ii always said is that war is always a defeat for humanity. Thats the first thing. The second thing is in the catholic war tradition, the war might be just, but the means may not all be just. We have to use proportional means. And so thats why Something Like this mother of all bombs is this proportionate, does this make sense, is this a proportional response to really the threat . So theres not just a sort of vague tradition of being antiwar, and being propeace but specific things that catholic war tradition asks us to follow. Im interested in individual responsibility. I feel this global happening makes us feel we can abrogat rselves from it all and the truth is theres a lot of things going on globally but we have a obligation to bring positivity into the world. To not just ask whats wrong but ask whats right, stop objectifying the other as other and start to see them as self. To start to realize that we, too, each day can be able to bring something to the world that brings light, that brings hope, that brings love. I see my own corner of the world other than maplewood, new jersey, hatred writ on the walls of the reservation, my kids middle schools, swastikas and antiafricanamerican language and wonder what world is coming to. We have to come together in local communities and really make change. The world feels dangerous, but we have a responsibility to make it better as well. Ill ask you both, mika, will tell you im a noted pollster. Yes. Is the country on the right track or wrong track . I think that humanity is on the right track. I think that the country right now is figuring out what that means. But i think we every day have a chance to make it better. Father are we on the right track or wrong track . I agree with the rabbi. Humanity is on the right track, god behind us. It depends on the person youre talking about. Towards good and hope were on the right track. Father james martin and rabbi met, thank you very much. Both of you for being with us on this good friday. And the friday before easter. Yeah. Final thoughts on the show this week . I just want to follow up on the pollsters question. I really noticed that this has caused a reawakening the past six months to a year. Yes. All the things we took for granted we take for granted no more. And its making us reexamine first principles, making us reexamine our history. Making us reexamine our heritage. How we do our jobs. Exactly. And all of our responsibilities as a community and as individuals. And that is a positive thing. Amen. Even in difficult, difficult times. Amen. Baptists in, all the people said amen. Something you will not see on y other msnbc show today. Good friday. Happy passover, happy great easter. That does it for us this morning. Have a wonderful holiday. Chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. Wonderful holiday to all of you. In im for Stephanie Ruhle live in washington, d. C. , overlooking the white house. Breaking news, video just released of the mother of all bombs hitting in afghanistan. This was the right weapon against the right target. The casualty report just in, and the lingering questions this morning. Did the president himself authorize its use . Everybody knows exactly what happened,