Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20160411 10:00:00

Were always rethinking whats possible in skincare. Thats just how we roll. Neutrogena®. See whats possible. So i watch bernie, he wins, he wince, he keeps winning, winning winning. Then i see hes got no chance, they always say he has no chance. Why doesnt he have a chance . Because the system is corrupt. And its worse on the republican side because im up millions of votes on cruz, millions, i dont mean like im up by two votes, im up millions and millions of votes. Weve got a corrupt system. Its not right. Were supposed to be a democracy. Were supposed to be you vote and the vote means something. We should have won it a long time ago but we keep losing where were winning, today winning votes doesnt mean anything. This is the only time. Good monday morning to you all. Its supposed to be spring. Im trying to will it so. Wow. You look great. Its monday. Thats great winter white. Welcome to morning joe. On set we have managing editor of Bloomberg Politics and the hosts of with all due respect although theyre not very respectful, joe. It airs at 6 00 p. M. On msnbc, Mark Halperin and John Heilemann. Former Communications Director for george w. Bush nicolle wallace. In winter white. We cant complain. We had such a great winter. But im ready for it to be it would be nice. It was snowing on saturday. Yes, in connecticut we had flurries. It was snowing so thats not great. Never ideal. A couple interesting things happening as we start the week. First of all, nicolle, i know your parents had to be relieved as was my brother. The Trump Campaign in many ways starting to show that discipline that everybodys been suggesting they needed to show. Trump not running on 20 shows on sunday, not tweeting up, you know, storms against megyn kelly or other people, have a Campaign Manager that takes slings and arrows on sunday. Theyre doing it the way youre supposed to at least pretend to do it. I dont know that id call it discipline yet. But i think the big question and there is a lot of debate last tuesday night about whether or not he could make adjustment, and he has. So i think there were people that didnt think he was capable of evolving and he has. And the message about how hes losing when he wins is the one he rides into the convention. Its a great message. He had gone im talking tactically. His failures were rooted in the fact that hed gone way off message, not behavior. But that the message had been totally lost and i think hes got himself back on message most importantly. You agree. Whether you agree with it or not and his crickets are going to call it whining but its a great message for an insurgent to write against a rigged system which is the animating purpose of this cycle. The entire cycle. The system is rigged, even when i win they steal it from us, the idiots running the Colorado Republican Party tweeting never trump afterthey award delegates to ted cruz without a single voter going to the polls to vote. Everything seems to be playing into this message. The nomination is within his grasp. He doesnt entirely control his own destiny but pretty close. When he remembers to make it about the voters and not himself, its a very effective message about him right now. And its effective that he happens to be doing where hes just blowing everybody aways in polls. Colorado can have their party games without having voters actually go to the polls to vote but he could say but in new york real people are going to vote and im up by 25 points in. Blow away. We said its a mistake if a parties go to war with its own voters or a band goes war with its fans trump can make it seem as though the Republican Party is at war with his voters, he wins the argument. We have a headline on papers all over the place. President obama defending Hillary Clinton on the emails, very interesting. Well listen to that. Its disturbing to fbi agents. And people put a ball in a hole and make millions of dollars, something happened in golf. Mika, im so impressed that you yes. Its on the front page of the wall street journal and usa today so i guess i have to its a tradition like no other. It is. And a meltdown like as the New York Times found out in 2002 or 2003. Did anybody see this. Jordan spieth way ahead. He was ahead last year when he won. Ahead the whole time here. He goes to the back nine, he bogeys 10, bogeys 11, then he starts looking like me. Thats not good. No, thats not good. Did he start cursing and digging holes into the ground with his stick. And i believe he got a quadruple bogey. With his snitick . The golf club. So we were watching it and as hed making the turn were talking about what an extraordinary achievement this was going to be. I went out to the corner store, got a falafel, they have a lot of those in new canaan, im holding the spicy sauce and its dripping out of my hand and hes behind. He was like four behind. How long do these things go on . It takes a long time. Days. You can take a long drive and people sit and watch. Amazing. Most incredible part is he almost came back again. Nothing to say about the Golden State Warriors. You go ahead. The Golden State Warriors tied the record for most regular season wins with one game ahead i think were in the weeds. Thats a huge story. Pride of the bay area now. New polls show donald trump are they in the eastern time zone in. No, they would lead the show if they were. They might as well be playing in beijing. New polls show donald trump with a large lead over his opponents in two of the states up next to vote. In new york a fox news poll shows trump leading by 32 points, 54 to john kasichs 22 . Ted cruz is at 15 . Lets stop there. Lets go back for a zblekd okay, stay in new york. Massive lead. Nicolle, this is obviously going to grab the headlines for the next couple weeks. If youre donald trump and decide to bring in Paul Manafort, you decide to go establishment as much as possible, now is a great time to do it because you can do it and then tell all your critics look what ive done, i rebooted and guess what . I just won by 30 points in the second mostimportant state in america. That matters for the first time in a long time. I think hes in a very strong position. I got back to this notion that the climate both parties are running in is against a rigged economy, against a rigged political establishment and i think cruz loses by winning because i think that feels rigged. It feels against the democratic process. I know theyre doing incredible things in these state conventions, that wheres the game has moved but i dont think that that is advantage on the larger field that this race should be played on. When theres a headline, mark, that cruz has managed to go in and steal delegates in South Carolina from donald trump and of course the press jumps up and down that says look how stupids trump operation no, i dont know about their operation but i know this people remember that donald trump beat the hell out of everybody in south korea among the voters. The voters voted for donald trump and when theyre reading stories weeks later saying trumps such a fool, all he knew how to do is get the votesers to vote for him but hes such a moron that the Party Insiders are turning against him. I dont know, im sure a lot of people on twitter delight in that. I can tell you it makes cruz look bad. It makes the party look bad. It makes the system looked rig and as weve been say iing, in type of coverage makes donald trump stronger. But makes you keep him from being the nominee. This is analogous to 2000, we learned about how florida votes how the country votes in 2000 and how much error there is. These are the rules and the Republican Party, its not a government election, its a private party and i agree with you that voters will be exercised and are whats happened by donald trump but these are the rules and the cruz people arepl playing by the rul. I totally understand the rules. Im the one that said if he gets 1236 they can send him home. Those are the rules. Im just talking the pr of it. It just looks bad. Most importantly, it feeds into his narrative. And the lesson in florida, i worked on that campaign, i worked on those recounts and the principle legal and otherwise is if youre ahead in the first count, its hard to lose. Donald trump will go into the convention ahead with the most delegates so but im talking about the mechanics. Im talking about the pr because i dont think theres been much mechanical about Donald Trumps rise. I watched a one hour special on another network where he was really the first foreign speak to these mass layoff, to make trade about human beings. And i think if he stays on his message which on the economy is about trade about things no other republicans are talking about and if he gets to the convention talking about winning in the vote and rails against a rigged system i dont know how he loses. I dont know how the party recovers from being perceived as taking it. Especially when you look at the numbers from these big states. Look at pennsylvania, trump has a 26point advantage ahead of kasich. Cruz is in a close third 2509 . So there you have, john hielman, also in pennsylvania which was least in the last poll we saw a week or ago much closer after donald trump had his horrific two week run. Looks like that bleeding stopped. Notice ted cruz the only guy that can beat donald trump is in third place in all of these polls. Third place behind john kasich, the man he said should drop out of the race. I think these views are, in fact, compatible. One of the questions is if trump has to perform exceptionally well between now and the end of the primaries in order to get to 1237. The argument against a rigged system makes it powerful between now and the end of june and it gives him the best argument to get to 1237 or 1238. I think im with you, if he gets to the end of june and hes not at 1237 you head to a convention as mark is talking about. Then the question is i think the party doesnt care whether it looks good or doesnt. If the party wants to keep him from being the nominee he can make the argument ins the world about how he has the most votes. The argument in response will be you are a historically weak frontrunner if you didnt get to a majority and we have these rules in place in which we have a contested convention, we have multiple ballots, et cetera, et cetera. That may be suicidal for the party but the people against trump think its suicidal for trump to be the nominee. You can argue it either way. Again just so were clear here the argument and nicolle, youre making the same argument that to get to 1237 the best way to do that is talk about how rigged the system is and even after you think you got 1237, you keep blasted that the system is rigged and keep pounding away and then you get there and if he comes up 100 short, it will be hard for the party to not give it to him. If he comes up 200, 300 short, thats a different thing. But also if you have ted cruz finishing in third place in a lot of these northeast primaries, makes it harder for ted cruz to say in a shakespearean is rhetoric me, me, me, me, me, me. Thats what he does before he speaks. He cant even beat john kasich in the northeast schlts that what he does . Absolutely. Its complete disconnect from the person ted cruz. Lets move to the democratic side. The new fox news poll what . Im just speaking the truth. Im picking up a disturbance in the force here. I say what you all its not me and its between him and like everybody, you all think it. I say it. Wherever he speaks you all go like this. She said it. And you cringe. You do the freeze phase. What do you call the stand organize resting i dont know, but its like wherever he speaks all right, lets go to democrats now. New york has Hillary Clinton up 16 points 53 to Bernie Sanders 37 . That will be a clean sweep for her . Well, we dont know. Clinton has a doubledigit lead in pennsylvania in the fox news poll, 49 to sanders 38 . Lets talk about these two polls. Surprised by the margin . I think he needs to go to rome. I think thats the way to close the gap. Twoday trip to rome. That is pretty incredible, that trip. That looks like its one poll. I think the race is closer than that but it is a diverse state and he had basically last week did not take full advantage of winning wisconsin. He got in the a bunch of fights. Do you agree with Mark Halperin that for Bernie Sanders to do better he needs to go to rome, new york, they have a big military facility, up there. Hes been invited, right . Rome, new york, yeah. I find the entire thing totally baffling. If the pope were there and the pope were going to meet with Bernie Sanders in rome, new york, more to vatican city, italy, id be all id totally understand it. In this context with a mustwin New York Primary to go to to leave the country to go anywhere other than the meet the pope himself makes no sense to me at all and Bernie Sanders is going to close to gap. Every place he goes in campaign he is closes the gap or overtakes Hillary Clinton. Hes sending a lot of time in this state. Hes going to close the gap. You go away for two days, take away your biggest advantage which is sanders being on the ground. You go away and fall three points short in new york, are you going to look up and say that was a good move to go to italy . I think he needs to do a teleconference in rome, new york. Bernie sanders won there the wyoming caucuses saturday. Sanders beat Hillary Clinton by 12 points 56 to 44 , notching his eighth win in the last nine nominating contests. It sounds like hes winning. Hes won eight out of nine. He wins by 12 points. I would not do well as a democratic politician. He wins by 12 points, he may not pick up a single delegate. Its 76 with the remaining delegate to be decided later . Sorry, thats a crushing victory. And i think with the super delegates that they have, i think she only has to win 30 she only has to get 30 of the vote in the remaining contest. Talk about voters feeling like a system might be rigged. Why are you even voting in wyoming . If youre driving in a car, weve been talked about rigged systems. Were putting up a graphic. Bernie sanders wins 56 to 44 in wyoming. The delegates rewarded Hillary Clinton 11, Bernie Sanders 7, why does the Democratic Party even have voting booths . This system is so rigged. They fall into line better than our voters do but i can see some of the same emotions boiling over at their convention. But we talk about voter turnout and how important it is to do your duty as a citizen. Theres no reason any of those people voted in any of those states, right . Whats the justification . These are the rules. Thats not a good answer. I understand. But its rigged. Tell me why these people needed to go votes. Its not rigged. These are the rules. Do the votes matter, Mark Halperin . Do they count in some way . How . Only in some parts of the country . I dont think its a good system but its not like he won by 12 Percentage Points i dont think its a good system. Im just saying do you think the democrats and republicans change their delegate allotment processes after this cycle. Only if the winner of the white house decides he or she wants to change it which is unlikely. These are the rules and i dont really thats not what were asking. Its not like the cruz people and clinton people have fixed it or rigged it. Thats fair. Lets talk about the democrats for now. We didnt say that, though. Here is a party who sends their activists out and have people chattering on tv, chattering on talk radio about voter disenfranchisement. If you make somebody show a picture of themselves. This same party tells voters to go straight to hell when they select somebody by 12 Percentage Points and end up letting the other candidate who lost by 12 Percentage Points win the most delegates. That by definition is voter disenfranchisement. So its a rigged system on the democratic side, even worse than the republican side and i dont know why democratic voters put up with it. If you say those are the rules, im going to lunge at your neck. I agree with everything you said except i wouldnt say its rigged. Its disenfranchisement, its not one person one vote, but its not rigged. What do you call it when voters going to the voting booth doesnt matter at all . A messed up system. Thats a rigged its not rigged. Its a system rigged against voters its a system rigged against people in go to voting booths. Its a system rigged against people in go out to caucuses it is a system that is rigged in favor of the rich and the powerful and the politically connected. Bernie sanders wins by 12 Percentage Points. He wins 56 to 44 . Now lets look at the delegate counts. He didnt get any super delegates. Or one, right . After winning by 12 Percentage Points hes losing. He loses wyoming where it counts by four delegates 117. John heilemann, if that is a system that is not rigged against voters and rigged in favor of the rich and powerful, please tell me one that. Well, i dont understand this graphic so thats part of the thats the super delegates. Theres a powerful argument that people in the Democratic Party have made some and should make, i think, that super delegates are a bad idea and this the idea that the party should not have people who are allowed to, that you should only have pledged delegates and they should be aligned with the will of the people. Thats a powerful argument. As mark says, it isnt the system current in place right now. Right now the Democratic Party decided long ago. Why are they disenfranchising the voters . Dont they care, one person, one vote in isnt that what we hear, one person, one vote. The system was designed a long time ago to prevent things like George Mcgovern happening again. So there are people elected mostly elected officials who the party says you are allowed to choose whoever you want. So buck against that system im not a democrat. But why did those people vote, John Heilemann. Can you imagine if it were republicans . Can you imagine if it were republicans that were say, listen, you know what theyd all be in witness protection. The people arent smart enough to be able to pick the nominee, is were going to have super delegates. Were going to get the richest, most powerful, most politically connected people to rig the process. In that were the case, jeb bush would still be in first place. They would be in witness protection. There are a not a lot of things to be relieved about in this cycle, that we dont have super delegates is one thing i feel relieved about. Its just i know these are the rules and ive been the convention and i know the rules can seem arcane, but this is a gut cycle and at a gut level when you have to Communications Job of explaining these are the arcane rules as theyve been crafted to prevent something that happened in the 60s from happening in 2016, thats an impossible communications challenge and both the Democratic Convention and the Republican Convention in my opinion are facing impossible communications challenges. Impossible. Wait until the trumps start challenging the seating of delegations, wait until that happens. Then you see a big debate about the rules. Still ahead on morning joe, we showed you trump up big in new york and pennsylvania. We values new numbers about how he might size up against Hillary Clinton in the general election. Plus, president obama goes to bat for his former secretary of state. He talks about carelessness and explains the difference between classified and classified. Well hear him explain that ahead. First, heres bill karins with a check on the forecast, bill. You didnt like the fact that april is colder than march,ly . Really sucks. How does the next week look . Were turning the corner on the snow, no snow in the forecast and were going to watch warmer temperatures. If youre leaving this morning in areas of the northeast, theres light rain, the warmer air is moving in so its cloudy and drizzly out there so bring the umbrella. The other story will be severe weather. Were in the peak of our season yesterday, we had large hail reported in texas and oklahoma, enough to cover the ground completely and now well watch these storms dying off. What will happen after the storms pass through little rock and southern missouri, we get round two this afternoon. About 13 Million People at risk of severe storms. We could have isolated tornados. I dont think well see too many of the big huge destructive ones. It only takes one little one to do significant damage. This one is most likely shreveport to little rock. The timing would be typical, Late Afternoon into the evening forming over towards the louisiana texas border and souther portions of arkansas. The other thing today for you lovely red sox fans, opening day at fenway park, 59 degrees, slight chance of showers but much better chance than what you experienced with the cold temperatures. New york city has light showers around on and off during the day today. Warmer temperatures in the 60s the rest of the week. Thats more like april. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. If your family outing is magical for all the wrong reasons. You may be muddling through allergies. Try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. And rtec® is different than claritin®. Because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. Try zyrtec®. Muddle no more®. Its more than a nits reliable uptime. And multilayered security. Its how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. With centurylink you get advanced Technology Solutions, including an industry leading Broadband Network, and cloud and hosting services all with dedicated, responsive support. With centurylink as your trusted technology partner, youre free to focus on growing your business. Centurylink. Your link to whats next. The point that i was making which is absolutely correct is that if you look at where she is getting her money, from wall street and other powerful special interests, she voted for the war, she cited henry kisser. A sense as a model for her, i think shows issues will tell the American People that in many respects she may have the experience to be president of the United States, no one can argue that, but in terms of her judgment, something is clearly lacking. What i said is that a candidate like secretary clinton who voted for the disastrous war in iraq, who has supported every disastrous trade agreement which has cost us millions of decentpaying jobs and who receives incredible amounts of money, were talking about tens of millions of dollars through her super pac from every special interest that you can think of and from the billionaire class, you know, i have my doubts about what kind of president she would make. Wow. Sanders on the attack on the issues and on what kind of president Hillary Clinton would be. Do you think its fair game or is he getting deeply personal. On his first move on Fox News Sunday since he moved into the oval office the president also jumped into this Hillary Clinton debate which sort of plays into what bernie was suggesting which is kind of does. There is a problem with her judgment so im curious. What does everybody think what do you think about bernie saying theres something wrong with there . Thats the essence of his argument against her and hes entitled to make it. Thats his toughest take, just saying there is something wrong with her judgment. I think hes got to he has to go there now because the other arguments, the arguments on substance, hes been making those arguments consistently, the distinctions on trade or wall street reform or the economy, hes been making the arguments in a tough contrasty way for months. Hes short and hes got to do something to clang the dynamic or hes going to fall short in this nomination fight so he has to take the next step and its been there all the time. Its just hes always seemed like he was holding himself back from taking that next step and now hes gone there. He wants to show the difference between him and Hillary Clinton and Hillary Clinton at the same time has to be very careful. She said i think i dont want to say anything bad about him. Because, of course, if she alienates his followers, thats going to be hard for her. If she does win to get those people back. President obama stood by his former secretary of state as we mentioned and guaranteed she would be treat nod differently when it comes to investigations, even if she ends up being the partys nominee. Hillary clinton was an outstanding secretary of state. She would never intentionally put america in any kind of jeopardy and what i also know because i handle a lot of classified information is that there are theres classified and then theres classifie classified. Theres stuff that is really top secret top secret and theres stuff that is being presented to the president or the secretary of state that you might not want on the transom or going out over the wire but is basically stuff that you could get in open source. I cant to believe she has not jeopardized Americas National security. Now, what ive also said is that and shes acknowledged that theres a carelessness in terms of managing emails that she has owned and she recognized. But i also think its important to keep this in perspective. Can you guarantee to the American People . Can you direct the Justice Department to say Hillary Clinton will be treated as the evidence goes, she will not be in any way protected. I can guarantee that. And i can guarantee that not because i give attorney general lynch a institutionally how weve always operated. I do not talk to the attorney general about pending investigations. I do not talk to fbi directors about pending investigations. The we have a strict line and always have maintained it. So just to button this up i guarantee it. I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department or the fbi, not just in this case but in any case. Full stop, period. Wait. Can you guys believe what you just heard . He said believe me. Like someone else. He said he wasnt going to talk to the attorney general about the pending investigation, but he just did, as he did back in october when he said no National Security issues here, nothing to see move along. The fbi complained, there was a New York Times article back in october saying the president of the United States should really let us finish our investigation before he starts drawing conclusions that we have scores of agents studying on. And he just did it again. And then in the same interview, Mark Halperin, said but im not talking to my attorney general about it. Talk about a rigged process. It seemed illadvised to say [ laughter ] these are the rules. I got no connection to this. He should just say i didnt talk about it and leave it to the Justice Department. I dont know why he went on at such length defending her. In theory he shouldnt know the facts of the case. Exactly. But he suggested in october and again this weekend John Heilemann that he knows the facts of the case. He has drawn the ultimate conclusion where he said National Security is not jeopardized. Thats why the fbi is putting i dont know, is it 40 . 50 . 60 . Weve heard over a hundred. But put on scores of people to investigate this and then the guy that at the end of the day runs the entire government says theres nothing to see here. In alice in wonderland we call it verdict first. Verdict first. While at the same time he says i guarantee theres going to be a fair investigation. Youre gonna like the way you look. By saying this, hes undermining if the attorney general decides that theres no problem hes undermining that conclusion by having prejudged it. Hes also just in a purely political context, hes putting his finger on the scale campaigning for hillary. May as well endorse her. If i were a Bernie Sanders supporter i would not appreciate the president of the United States doing something that as Bernie Sanders criticizes her judgment on the email thing having the president weigh in on her side on National Television if i were a Bernie Sanders supporter. What. Why doesnt he just endorse her. And nicolle, what if you were the director of the fbi and you had been killing yourself to run a fair investigation and twice the president of the United States has made a fool of you by saying his investigation doesnt matter because the scales the lady isnt blindfolded, im tipping the scales right now as the guy that runs this government telling you no problems at all. No National Security problems at all. And i dont know if his day shapes up like george w. Bushs, but the first person george w. Bush saw in the morning was the fbi director so i dont know how thats going to go this morning. As a staffer, i would have prepared him for the question by saying i know Hillary Clinton, i know what kind of person she is, i think she has good judgment and i would have told him to leave the investigation alone. So i dont know if he got that advice and ignored it. I dont know if he got requests from the Clinton Campaign to throw her a lifeline, shes lost eight of the last nine contests but you go back to the backdrop on which the campaign is being waged and it certainly felt like someone putting their finger on the scale for someone for whom the investigation has not been wrapped up. A criminal investigation is being rigged. For either him or her. For whatever its worth, vice news reported after the state Department Released more than 30,000 of clintons email, there were 22 that were not released because they were deemed top secret and it would cause exceptionally grave damage to National Security if disclosed. So take what barack obama said, Mark Halperin, said i dont think she did anything that impacted National Security. The president s own state Department Said i know classified and then i know classified. No, the state Department Said there are 22 emails that if released would cause exceptionally grave damage to Americas National security. How does the president go out and say nothing. Does the president i mean are the president s standards that much lower when it comes to Americas National security than his own state department . Its similar to her cavalier attitude about the way she handled secrets and anyone in the government shares the view theres overclassification but i agree with nicolle, i dont understand why hes commenting on it. Hes making the case, its as if hes the Clinton Campaigns communication director in trying to exonerate her before the investigation is completed. Hes the last person in the world who should be doing it. Especially, isnt this the same president , John Heilemann, that wanted to throw reporters in jail and was more aggressive with reporters about classified secrets being leaked than any president and this is the president thats saying no big deal when the state department is saying that there are at least 22 emails that would cause exceptionally grave damage to Americas National security if released. If a reporter passed that information on, this president would have them in jail already. The inconsistencies there are pretty profound and i think, again, the ill advisability of his commenting on this is just again, on multiple levels something he should not be talking about. He should not be talking about it. A rigged system. The people versus the powerful. Well, the powerful will win. There are super delegates. There is a rigged system because if a reporter had done this, lets say, oh, i dont know, worked for the a. P. Or somewhere else and had classified information like this and passed it along through a server that was not secured, that reporter would be in jail. Under this president , that reporter would be in jail. So the four words of the day are. Rigged, rigged, rigged, rigged . The system is rigged. Coming up, the boston globes subtle approach to the possibility of a trump presidency. Thats ahead in the mustwritten opinion pages. Well be right back. Safety doesnt come in a box. Its not a banner that goes on a wall. Its not something you do now and then. Or when its convenient. At bp, its training and retraining in stateoftheart simulators so were better prepared for any situation. Its giving offshore teams support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells. D its empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesnt seem right. So everyone comes home safely. Were working every day at bp, to improve our training, our technology, our culture. Because safety is never being satisfied. And always working to be better. Until one of you clipst da food truck. Then your rates go through the roof. Perfect. For drivers with accident forgiveness, Liberty Mutual wont raise your rates due to your first accident. Liberty mutual insurance. No, youre not yogonna watch it tch it we cant let you download on the goooooo youll just have to miss it yeah, youll just have to miss it we cant let you download. Uh, no thanks. I have x1 from xfinity so. Dont fall for directv. Xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. I used to like that song. Up next, the boston globe turns heads with its sunday edition. Plus, how Hillary Clinton stacks up against donald trump, including when it comes to making America Great again. Some eyeopening new numbers from the Associated Press when we come right back. Its realizing beautyg doesnt stop at my chin. Roc©s formula adapts to delicate skin areas. My fine lines here . Visibly reduced in 4 weeks. Chest, neck face cream from roc. © methods, not miracles. And i didnt get here alone. There were people who listened along the way. People who gave me options. Kept me on track. And through it all, my retirement never got left behind. So today, im prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. Every someday needs a plan. Lets talk about your old 401 k today. They are. Do i look smarter . Yeah, a little. Youre making money now, are you investing . Well, ive been doing some research. Let me introduce you to our broker. How much does he charge . I dont know. Okay. Uh, do you get your fees back if youre not happy . dad laughs wow, youre laughing. Thats not the way the world works. Well, the worlds changing. Are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed . Wealth management, at charles schwab. patrick 2 pretty great. Ke to be the boss of you . patrick 1 how about a 10 raise . patrick 2 how about 20 . patrick 1 how about done . patrick 2 thats the kind of control i like. And thats what they give me at national car rental. I can choose any car in the aisle i want without having to ask anyone. Who better to be the boss of you. patrick 1 than me. I mean, you. Us. vo go national. Go like a pro. How about that stupid boston globe . Its worthless, it sold for a dollar. The whole front page they made up a story that trump they pretended trump is the president and they made up the whole front pages of make believe stories which is really no different from the whole paper for the whole thing. I mean, the whole thing is made up. Well, yesterday the boston globe put a fake front page on a section of its sunday paper with a spoof edition purporting the show the news if donald trump were president. Headlines included deportations to begin. President trump calls for tripling of ice force, riots extended, markets sink as trade war looms. Below the fold warned u. S. Soldiers refuse orders to kill isis families. New libel law targets absolute scum in press. And a story about trump comparing the chinese president s wife to his new pet sharpei. With us now from washington, we have White House Correspondent for the Associated Press julie pace. Julie, you can comment on whatever you want to comment on today. The theme of the day comment on that. The word for the day is rigged. But lets talk about what your first of all, you obviously have worked around the white house for quite some time. Were you surprised, as we were, that the president weighed in as aggressively as he did saying that he was sure no national security was jeopardized. I actually wasnt surprised given his past Public Comments on this. I completely understand the concerns about him weighing in that your panel has been talking about but i wasnt surprised. I think this is part of a pattern that were seeing with president obama in this election where he is all but endorsing Hillary Clinton and making it very clear where he stands and position himself as someone who is going to be an active defender of her Going Forward through november. Lets look at some a. P. Numbers. Mika, you want to go through them . We have domestic issues, who do you trust more to handle. Making America Great again clinton 33 , trump 28 , neither, 30 . On the economy, clinton 36, trump 35, neither 17. On the economy pretty much split. On job creation pretty much split, immigration, hillary has the lead there but julie i would i would guess on Economic Issues quite a few americans would be surprised Hillary Clinton and donald trump all seem to be tied within the margin of error. If youre donald trump, the one area in our poll that you can take solace is n is that on the economy, which voters consistently rank as if not their top issue one of their top issues going into the election, he is virtually tied with Hillary Clinton. The problem for him comes on pretty much every other issue, on immigration, health care, nominating Supreme Court justices, handing the threat from isis, managing the u. S. Image abroad hes trailing her fairly significantly. But i would point out that we are only in april and the other thing this poll shows is that there are upwards of 20 or 30 of americans who either havent made a decision on who they think is best positioned to handle these issues or at this point say neither. So there is room to grow. And the Trump Campaign recognizes that. Youll see him giving policy speeches in the coming weeks to close this gap. Nicolle, if i were on the Trump Campaign and looking at all the chaos that has preceded him over the past three weeks and i was pretty much within the margin of error on the threat of isis and protecting the country these are much better numbers for him than what has been driving the narrative which is his unelectability in a general election matchup this is what would seize upon and drive home. We talked about how off message he is, this shows in stark relief how his messages if he focuses on trade and the threat of isis he has the opportunity to turn it around. So you ha so you have the threat of isis, protecting the countries and creating jobs and growing the economy. Much better than any of us would have suspected. Even Hillary Clintons strategists will tell you she is vulnerable a strong challenge from the right republican those numbers suggest almost any republican could be well positioned. That donald trump can improve those numbers but he needs to improve his standing with voters if hes going to be the nominee. I think the problem for him is going to be not his probl problems dont relate to issues, they relate to behavior and suitability in the oval office. On a lot of issues trump will be competitive the question is whether the package. The full package is accept to believe voters up for grabs. The way hes behaved of late, not the last 48 hours but the last three or four months, will be a problem for him in a general election. Julie, as were talking about image as opposed to particular issues the two numbers that stick out as the glaring weaknesses play to that. One, americas image abroad. Hillary clinton doubling donald trump 48 to 21 and gender equality 55 , 12 trump which plays into the fact that demographics are standing in his way in the fall more than anything else whether where youre talking about hispanics or women. If you look at the first part of the poll we released that looked at his temperament and the publics view of him generally, 70 they had an unfavorable view of donald trump and it really just crossed the spectrum men, women, young people, old people. Yes, these numbers on issues show that he does have an opportunity in a general election matchup with Hillary Clinton but john is right. His real weakness is going to be that he is not viewed favorably at this point by a vast majority of americans. They may think he could do as good a job as Hillary Clinton on the economy but if they dont like him that may be a hard barrier for him to cross over. Julie pace, thank you. Thank you, julie. Im still stuck on the boston globe spoof front page. Has that been done before . Are they doing the other candidates . Thats the kind of thing College Newspapers do after a lot of bong hits usually like at 3 00 in the morning. Ive never seen that done in a professional newspaper before and published. Okay. All right. They would just take days off. That would have been a great aprils fools after his new york values comments, why did ted cruz make a point of campaigning in the bronx . Well get one explanation when morning joe comes right back. . Were good. Okay. What if a Million People download the new app . Were good. Five million . Good. We scale on demand. Hybrid infrastructure, boom. Ok. What if 30 Million People download the app . Were not good. Were total heroes. Scale on demand with the Number One Company in cloud infrastructure. Trolling for a gig with cant blame you. Its a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. No, im actually over at the ge booth. Were creating the Operating System for industry. Its called predix. Its gonna change the way the world works. Ok, im telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. Umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. Look out ohhhhhhhhhh. 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Still ahead on morning joe, donald trump slams the primary system after getting outhustled by ted cruz in the hunt for delegates with one trump strategist accusing the Cruz Campaign of using gestapo tactics. Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders picked up his eighth win in a row only to find out it didnt seem to matter. Doesnt matter. The voting doesnt count on the democratic side. When they pull the lever, is that good exercise . Very good exercise. Otherwise there was no point to vote. Theyre trying to make the Democratic Party although its better to do it with slot machines in vegas. Might as well, it would have the same impact on who gets the delegate again. What is going on . Jon meacham joins the discussion when we come right back. girl but with directv and at t, you can get your tv and Wireless Service from one provider. dad are not we your providers . Do we not provide you with this succulent jackrabbit pie . This delicious graywater soup . 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We know what it means to serve. Get an Auto Insurance quote and see why 92 of our members plan to stay for life. Gosh, new york has beendayold this week, hasnt it . In fact, my head is getting chilly, i think i better put on my favorite hat that ive worn so many times over the years. [ laughter ] you know what my favorite part of new york is . The subway. I love it and i am comfortable riding it. In fact, heres me using it earlier today. The new york city subsway the best way to get around. Ow. Its been a while. Is this a working metro card . Is it . Ill just go in the oldfashioned way because [ laughter ] ill take a cab. Cab is the best way to get around. Oops, theres my alarm, time to turn my hat around. There we go. God, love those new york meats welcome back to morning joe, its monday, april 11. With us we have managing editor of Bloomberg Politics John Heilemann, chair of the department of africanamerican studies at princeton university, eddie glaude, jr. , editor of the Weekly Standard and jon meacham. Good to have you on board. So mr. Meacham, we talked about a disconnect between the establishment and voters and about how the system to many americans seems rigged and we showed the democratic votes, it showed Bernie Sanders winning a caucus 56 to 44 and then showed it was actually Hillary Clinton that got the most delegates by a good bit because of the super delegates. And then we have donald trump on the other side running away with victories in states like South Carolina and then there are headline headlines saying these delegates have been flipped and turned to go to the other candidates. We understand these are the rules, we understand this is the system thats set up, we understand that donald trump complaining about that could be classified as whining. But doesnt this just play into Bernie Sanders and Donald Trumps argument that the system is, in fact, rigged . Absolutely. The gulf between the establishment or the experienced Political Class and the voters lets remember, these are people who were actually voting and responding to polls so theres probably another group thats more disenchanted thats not bothering to vote. But its as profound as any time i can remember going back to the 19th century where people dont faith in traditional Political Institutions to deliver on the central promise of American Life which was that we may not have equality out outcome but were supposed to have equality of opportunity and theres a fundamental disconnect in the country thats been driving our politics now for a long time in a subtle way and probably really since last june or so when trump got involved it became the central organizing principle of our politics. And, eddie, weve been told by the smart guys and the smart women that as the process moved along americans would become more mature and they would move to establishment candidates and yet on the republican side you have donald trump up by 25 30, in new york and pennsylvania and on the democratic side, Bernie Sanders just won his eighth contest in a row. His eighth contest in a row. I think this is a reflection of an overall cynicism, not only about the political process but about the state of American Life. I mean, we look at that big piece in the Washington Post today about the new divide in america with regards to this. So the consequences of things big rigged is also in terms of delegate counts. Its a stunning article in the post. We see american white women dying earlier. Weve seen my colleagues at princeton talking about american white men without High School Educations dying earlier. We already know their Life Expectancy for less educated white men is actually shortening. Now this Washington Post article shows the same thing is happening for white women. And we already know that africanamerican men and women are dying earlier and whats interesting is that this is not a matter of mortality, its a matter of morbidity. That is to say theres just overall just the quality of life is deteriorating. So when we talk about things big rigged, were not just talking about the political process, not just delegate counts. Were talking about the effects of the new economy on the quality of life of americans across the board so this is not about a matter of maturing and siding with the Political Class. This is about these are opinions that reflect peoples day to day lives. An economy that weve been talking about, me a a, here for years now that is getting more and more disconnected with working class, middleclass americans and the stat weve used at least for three or four years that in real dollars, average wages have declined since 1973. Since 1973. Over the past deck is cade, data has come out recently that our children, the next generation, will not do as well as this one. And thats new as well. Thats depressing. And thats whats driving thats not america. Whats driving the bernie crowds, whats driving the trump crowds . I think this answers the question. Theres not an establishment in the country thats in gooe d with the vast majority of people in the country. Whether its the business establishment, the media establishment, the religious establishment, all of it for the last 20 years the sense of the establishment not representing the views of the vast majority of americans has been growing and its tipped over to the point where the two where the leading president ial candidate on the republican side and the candidate on the democratic side who has been driving the argument although hes slightly behind are now the candidates who are giving voice to that profound and sweeping senseover frustration that dont represent the views of most people. I would argue itsreality. Its the data, the numbers. And we have to ask ourself what is is the vision of the world that will emerge from this sense of precariousness. Im going write this one down. I just got hives. This sense of precariousness. Precarety . Precarety. Thank you, professor. Remember we were eating and i said my sandwich was falling about, i said there seems to be precarity. Theres a sense so precarity to this ham sandwich. Seriously, though, folks are making political decisions based upon the sense of that life isnt what it seems to be. Thats what kmika and i saw n New Hampshire and we tried to explain this a couple of times. At the trump rally. When we worked out, we werent looking at donald trump, we were looking at the people from trying to figure out why they came out in the middle of a snowstorm to watch this billionaire speak. A lot of working class americans. They put on jackets they probably hadnt worn in 20 years because they felt thats what they were supposed to do and they went out and you see a different crowd, a younger crowd going out to the bernie crowds. And responding to many people in the political establishment that say you cant go out running for president on the thats the core of the Bernie Sanders message. Hes drawing crowds are many thousands of people with whom the message of revolution is resonant. That kind of language would have been considered dangerous or too far in our political system just a couple cycles ago now he is the most apart from donald trump the candidate more than trump in terms of consistently now drawing clouds will are 8,000, 10,000, 14,000. 18,000. They hear revolution and they come. And heres Bernie Sanders over the weekend talking about why voters need to think about who they vote for. Take a look. The point that i was making which is absolutely correct is that if you look at where she is getting her money from wall street and other powerful special interest s she voted for the war, she cited Henry Kissinger in a sense as a model for her, i think those issues will tell the American People that in many respects she may have the experience to be president of the United States, no one can argue that, but in terms of judgment something is lack i lacking what i said is a candidate like secretary clinton who has supported every disastrous trade agreement which has cost us millions of decentpaying jobs and who receives incredible amounts of money, were talking about tens of millions of dollars through her super pac from every special interest that you can think of and from the billionaire class, you know i have my doubts about what kind of president she would make. Is that fair . Well, i think one way to read it is that theres a sense in which something follows from her ideolo ideology. What would follow from her commitments. How will it address what weve been talking about . The fact that everything seems rigged or this the status quo . Voting for Hillary Clinton, would this be doubling down on what has happened and continues to happen . I think what Bernie Sanders represents and what we see around the excitement around his campaign is a battle over the soul of the Democratic Party and i think the challenge of those young folks to bill clinton in philadelphia, his socalled mea culpa at penn state, all of this is really about challenging the direction of the Democratic Party, challenging that it defends the most vulnerable in our society. And jon meacham, look at those people. For all of the people out there coming to these events, whether its on the democratic side with Bernie Sanders or the republican side with donald trump it is an outright rejection of the bush clinton era that we have been in now for a quarter of a century where they feel like the system is rigged. Doesnt matter whether its bill clinton or george w. Bush or even barack obama, they know if a trade deal comes up it doesnt matter what they said in the campaigns, bill clinton always talked about human rights abuses in china. Got elected, he started doing business immediately just like george h. W. Bush with china. Barack obama, you always know that on free trade the president s are going to all go to one position at the end of the day on war they usually move to the same position, most people feel, again, like the system is rigged and i just wonder, youve been predicting the breakup of the 150 year duopoly between the republicans and the democrats in this country. Are we seeing that right now . Is it coming apart at the seams . Well, certainly ideologically, intellectually and emotionally i think the parties are cracking up. Whether structurally that follows because of the stranglehold the established parties have on things as fundamental as Ballot Access is a longer story but we wouldnt be having this conversation with this level of specificity and, indeed, passion, if there werent stresses and strains on this. The parties have not really changed in a fundamental way since the mid60s and the battles over civil rights. Particularly in the Democratic Party but also the Republican Party, theres not a consensus about globalization and its impact and parties reconfigure, realign when there is not a majority consensus about the central issue of our time, whether it was the whigs and slavery in the 19th century or civil rights in the middle of the 20th century and now globalization its hard to imagine two more different accents in American Life than ross perot and Bernie Sanders but theres but theyre close in their messaging when i hear senator sanders say things like i know i dont have experience the question may be one of judgment. Remember ross perots best line in 1992 which was not dissimilar in representing a discomfort with globalization was, you know, no i dont have experience running up a 2 trillion debt. And these messages are resonating in in part not just emotionally but intellectually, too. New polls show donald trump with a large lead over his opponents. In the two of the states up next for voting. In new york, a fox news poll shows trump leading by 32 points. 54 to john kasichs 22 . Ted cruz at 15 and in pennsylvania trump has a 26point advantage ahead of kasich, 48 to 22 . Cruz in third at 20 . Michael warren, your latest column explains why ted cruz has spent time campaigning in the bronx, a place where hes not necessarily popular and can i argue just a little awkward at times . In an interview with the Weekly Standard, ted cruz explained he went to the bronx to talk about Small Businesses and meet up with a group of 40 local pastors. The latter reason is more compelling. So michael what could happen in Nancy Pelosis district, in california, could also happen in the bronx. So youre saying basically you get the same number of delegates by winning those 295 votes in the bronx as you would get in a very republican area in the center of long island. Thats absolutely right. Those are the rules of the game and ted cruz has proven to be much more adept and much smarter about playing within the rules of the game. This is the way it is in new york. Its the way it is in california as you just mentioned, some of these other states. They have different rules and cruz more so than john kasich and more so than donald trump has proven he and his team know those rules better. I want to push back against what most of the panel and you folks are saying about what this says about Donald Trumps message that the system is rigged. I dont think thats Donald Trumps main message. Its his message when he loses, he says, oh, the system is rigged. When he doesnt win the delegates, but his big message, i think is more that the elites, the establishment, whatever you want to call them, theyre not smart enough to know to fix a system thats rigged against america. Im smart enough, i, donald trump, am smart enough to rig it in our favor, in americas favor and i think this cuts against Donald Trumps message, his central message that he has the best people, he knows what to do. If he cant even play by these rules that everybody knew beforehand, i think a rigged system would be if the rules were hidden to many of the players or the the people but the rules were known to donald trump just like they were known to any of the other campaigns and so i just i think thats important to remember when we talk about new york and these very democratic districts getting the same number of delegates. Maybe its not fair, maybe its something that needs to be changed but lets not act like everybody didnt already know this going into it. And we did say that before. We also said before, though, it helps him pr wise if he goes through South Carolina and hes somehow smart enough to destroy the entire political establishment in South Carolina, humiliate the sitting governor there, humiliate a lot of other people there and then a month and a half later you have people reading stories going, oh, wait a second, he may not end up getting the delegates. Its like the delegate count we showed from wyoming where you have the voters go out and vote and then you have the Political Class go out and decide the voters vote doesnt count. Now you can say what you want to say about that system, im just talking pr wise. If im running an insurgent campaign then i have got my message from now through the conventio convention. I agree with you on the pr and that part of the argument but i will say theres an irony here that, you know, this idea that the will of the people in a voting primary and then these unDemocratic Conventions, you know who in republican politics pushes for these undemocratic socalled unDemocratic Conventions and this way to pick delegates are the insurgent candidates. Thiss a vestia vestige of the r paul movements to have these conventions in virginia and colorado so its an irony that the insurgent candidate, donald trump, is losing in contests that are supposed to be beneficial to him. Were scratching our heads here, at least mika and i are, on the democratic side that you have you have all these super delegates that rig the process before it begins. As i i have said before, if republicans had super delegates, jeb bush would still be in the race because he would have had 500 delegates up front. It wouldnt have mattered how badly he did in the early states but the absurdity of this is sanders has won eight in a row. He destroyed Hillary Clinton in wyoming and he lost by four delegates. Thats these arcane rules, john mentioned the case of mcgovern, theres also the 1980 convention with carter and kin di and super delegates playing this role to make sure that they have a voice and whos going to be representing the party. The establish ment. And i think firm that 1908 convention there was a clash between the kennedy folks and feminists and congresswoman Geraldine Ferraro stepped in to make sure the situation would at least approximate fairness. What we snow the process is weighted if we dont want to use the word rigged. Its certainly weighted to the establishment to those folks who are empowered at their own pace so as we say back home in mississippi, it is what it is until it aunt. The Weekly Standards michael warren, thank you very much. Still ahead, Kristen Welker joins our political round table. Also ahead, the head of the cia draws a line in the sand when it comes to enhanced interrogation techniques no matter who is president. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Its more than a network and the cloud. Its reliable uptime. And multilayered security. Its how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. With centurylink you get advanced Technology Solutions, including an industry leading Broadband Network, and cloud and hosting services all with dedicated, responsive support. With centurylink as your trusted technology partner, youre free to focus on growing your business. Centurylink. Your link to whats next. Headache . Motrin helps you be an unstoppable, letsrockthisconcert likeits1999 kind of mom. When pain tries to stop you, theres motrin. Motrin works fast to stop pain where it starts. Make it happen with motrin liquid gels. Those hot dogs look good. Oh yeah, hebrew national. Their allbeef like yours but theyre also kosher. So, not just any beef goes into it. Oh, honey oh here, have some of ours. Oh hebrew national. A hot dog you can trust. No, youre not yogonna watch it tch it we cant let you download on the goooooo youll just have to miss it yeah, youll just have to miss it we cant let you download. Uh, no thanks. I have x1 from xfinity so. Dont fall for directv. Xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. I used to like that song. Over the weekend, Bernie Sanders also went on the attack against former president bill clinton over an exchange he had with black lives matter protesters last week. During a backandforth at an event in philadelphia, the former president defended his 1994 crime bill as well as his wifes use of the term super predators to refer to violent gang members as she helped push for the bills passage. What are your thoughts about what he said, senator sanders . Unacceptable. [ applause ] i think we all know what this term meant in the context that it was said years ago. We know who they were talking about. Black people thats exactly right. Thats who it was. And i think that the president owes the American People an apology for trying to defend what is indefensible. Joining us now, nbc news White House Correspondent Kristen Welker who is covering the Clinton Campaign. This has been a debate that has been going back and forth since bill clinton made those comments that he almost apologized for. He walked up to the line of apologizing but didnt quite apologize. I think this speaks to the broader question about does bill clinton help or hurt secretary clintons campaign, the Clinton Campaign insists hes still the best person to speak to her record and what it takes to be president but this is an issue that continues to, i think, be a challenge for her campaign, one Sanders Campaign official describes that moment as useful because, of course, senator sanders has struggled with africanamerican voters. That gave him a bit of an opening to reach out and say im listening to your problems right now. It gave him an opening to say what is so, i guess, connective between his platform and the needs and the issues that are important to africanamericans. He has some policies in mind and criminal Justice Reform in mind that really does appeal to offer voters but no way to get to them. And lets be clear. President clinton didnt tell the truth. We know that the 1994 crime bill wasnt the reason why crime was going down. We know that welfare reform in some ways welfare reform legislation actually increased extreme poverty, that 1. 6 million households fell into extreme poverty as a result of that legislation in terms of the gaps, in terms of those who didnt have work and theres a sense in which his mea culpa the next day, he said i almost wanted to apologize but right after he said that, we need to listen, the passionate plea, what did he say right after that . He went back to the very claim that now africanamericans think that theyre the number one threat are Police Officers but i knew when i signed that crime bill that the number one threat were these gang folk who were hopping up teenager, giving them guns to kill other teenagers. Thats the language that was used to justify the crime bill. But did bill clinton have a point . Does he have a point that the problems arent all from Police Officers that are on the prowl looking for young black men to kill, that theres also a major problem inside the community and if you look at Gang Violence not only in 49 but also today in chicago there are a lot of black people killing a lot of black people and bill clintons point was and by the way i never defend bill clinton im kind of stunned. No, but i this is a very important conversation i think for us to have as a country but bill clinton would say i have a point here that the greatest threat if you look at pure numbers to the life of black people in america from being killed come from other black people. And the same thing could hold true for white people. So the notion of blackonblack crime is a rhetorical device that emerged in the context of the 70s and 80s to but its very real in chicago. But white on white crime but arent the numbers much worse . Lets say for instance in chicago you dont have white people every weekend shooting other white people baltimore. In the suburbs of chicago and if you did, oh, my god, the world would come to an end and we would have everybody would be live there for the next three months. So lets bracket i dont want to hog the conversation. But lets bracket for a moment the conversation around blackonblack crime and talk specifically about the formulation around gangs that he was using to justify to sign the crime bill and that language was part of a broader discourse out of which the super predator language comes from. And this is really about social science data supposedly driving the claim by the way, just to clarify as you continue, who was she talking about when she said super predators . That was a certain deception of a certain kind of violent criminal. She said she was talking about the drug dealers and the drug cartels. To be fair. And i think bill clinton was saying lets remember what was happening in 1994 when this piece of legislation passed. By the way, it passed with bipartisan support and senator sanders supported the legislation as well and i think that that was part of why he got so defensive . If you look at the fallout of the crime bill, the results are complicated. Some people would argue obviously hes acknowledged it created and added to the mass incarceration but it did do some things to promote Community Policing and to sorts of things as well. But what was stunning about that moment is it was very personal for him. He was defending his record and his wife and we see him go off message when he feels like its a personal attack. So part of what i would want to do is kind of lets parse it out. You rear right, the crime bill this omnibus legislation, all the things that were part of it, there were good components and other components and he said the next day there are some parts of the crime bill we can not justify. He made that claim. But part of what i wanted to what i want to point out is the kindover lets say janusfaced nature. On the one hand i almost want to apologize but on the other kind he engage in the very rhetoric. Thats bill clinton. And what i want to say. Lets be very clear. Not only did the Great Recession of 2008 wipe out almost all the gangs in the Africanamerican Community of the 1990s, it might have also shattered the illusions of the 1990s as well. So bill clinton might not get the pass hes gotten before. Jon meacham, you want to chime in before we go to break. Well, i think this is in political terms this is also hugely important because remember one of the pillars on which the democratic revival of the 1990s was built was being tough on crime and moving beyond what was portrayed as the Great Society excesses of the late 60s and 70s so theres an entire political generation that to some extent was built on the argument that was unfolding yet again last week in the democratic primary. Jon, you and i saw this in the south. Democratic governors would get elected and they would be tough on crime, just to be blunt. I was commenting on this in high school watching it. A democratic governor would be first to execute somebody because if they could brag that they were executing people in the electric chair in florida or elsewhere, that would give them the cred to be tough enough on these other issues where the they might be more pregnantive than t progressive than the rest of their states but you can go state by state by state by state across the south where the Death Penalty came back into effect and if you were a white moderate democratic governor in the late 70s and 80s, thats what you did. My colleague at princeton has written an extraordinary book entitled the first civil right, how liberals built prison america. And what shes talking about is not only expansion of capital offenses, shes talking about mandatory minimums, shes talking about three strikes youre out legislation. She also identifies and i think is right to identify Vice President bidens role in this and as well as president clintons role in some ways expanding what did bill clinton who was it bill clinton rushed back to arkansas . Ricky ray rector. Heres whats not fair to the clintons. Were having a subtle and nuanced conversation here where people are allowed to slightly misspeak and correct themselves. The clintons arent allowed to do that. He was commenting over several days of very complicated things. He spoke for ten minutes and people seize on things. Part of why Hillary Clinton is not as good a candidate as shed like that be is she so worried about saying one thing that will be seized on for two weeks. So what are we getting wrong . Were not there and senator sanders is increasingly subjected to this and so are the republicans. Our political media culture is not just forgiving enough of what the candidates and in the case of bill clinton candidates spouse say about freighted issues. But bunk, if youre going to apologize, apologize. If youre not going to apologize, dont apologize but dont say i almost want to apologi apologize. He knows full well if he apologizes it creates a separate storm and he didnt feel he needed a fullthroated apology, he felt ambivalent which i think was the right posture. I think it underscores the generational divide here as well. Hes talking about defending his policy from the 90s and it speaks to secretary clintons challenge in connecting to Younger Voters. This is an issue that africanamericans, particularly young africanamericans care about and are fighting for and the challenge in that moment was he wasnt listening to them and thats why you still have this divide, Younger Voters including africanamericans tend to be supporting senator sanders. So its something shell have to reckon with before the general. Nbcs Kristen Welker, thank you, professor eddie glaude, jr. , thank you very much. Investigations into the brussels terror attacks. Why it may have been paris that was supposed to be isis next target. Bill neely brings us the latest from the belgian capital ahead. Jake reeseday to fee jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive weinto a new american century. Born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. And what an amazing time its been, decade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder. So, we say thank you america for a century of trust, for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together. This just got interesting. Why pause to take a pill . Or stop to find a bathroom . Cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. Do not drink alcohol in excess. Side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. To avoid longterm injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis and a 200 savings card coming up, the scenario under which the head of the cia says he would di pefy a direct order from the president of the United States. Thats next on morning joe. Hey, need fast heartburn relief . Try cool mint zantac. It releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. Zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. Nexium can take 24 hours. Try cool mint zantac. No pill relieves heartburn faster. E trade is all about seizing opportunity. And id like to. Cut. So im gonna take this opportunity to direct. Thank you, well call you. Evening, film noir, smoke, atmosphere. Bob. Youre a young farmhand and e trade is your cow. Milk it. E trade is all about izing opportunity. Its my decision to make beauty last. Fix. Roc retinol started visibly reducing my fine lines and wrinkles in one week. And the longer i use it the better it works. Retinol correxion from roc. Methods, not miracles. Some say free the whales. For them, nothing else is acceptable. But nothing could be worse for the whales. Most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. Sending them into the wild wouldnt be noble. It could be fatal. When they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. But we also understand that times have changed. Today, people are concerned about the Worlds Largest animals like never before. So we too must change. Thats why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. There will be no more breeding. Were also phasing out orca theatrical shows. Theyll continue to receive the highest standard of care available anywhere. And guests can come to see them simply being their majestic selves. Inspiring the next generation of people to love them as you do. Now to the new developments in the terror attacks on brussels. Belgian officials made six more arrests over the weekend, one of them, 31yearold Mohamed Abrini who prosecutors say confessed to being the mystery man in the hat who helped deliver explosives to the brussels airport. Nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely has the latest from belgium. Bill . Reporter good morning, guys. After a weekend of startling revelations, not least for the families of the victims of the brussels bombings. People like the Schultz Family of kentucky who buried justin and Stephanie Schultz on friday. They were killed at the airport here. Because they learned that their loved ones was not really meant to be the target, at least they were not the prime target of the isis bombers. They havent dropped their guns and they havent dropped their guard in belgium. Even after a weekend declaring judicial success, prosecutor charging this man, Mohamed Abrini, with mass murder, in both brussels and paris. And describing an extraordinary confession. They say he admits to being the man in the hat at an airport bombing that he says wasnt meant to happen. Prosecutors say he told them france was the intended target, a second hit after the paris massacres but the arrest of the paris bombers Salah Abdeslam surprised isis and rushed them into an attack on belgium. So instead of bombing this district in paris, they left their apartment and bombed brussels airport. In this apartment, police found 30 pounds of the explosive tatp and around 50 gallons of explosive material. But the gang had already used four times that amount in the bomb they built here. So where did it come from and who supplied it . Those questions have never been answered and the police cant yet answer the publics questions. Is it over or are there more killers on the loose . So they have heightened the fears of attacks, and not just here but britain and germany are on a high state of alert. As isis is squeezed in iraq and syria, fears grow they might launch some other attack, another atrocity in europe or the u. S. Now to the question of enhanced interrogation in the campaign of the white house. Donald trump said hed use waterboarding and a hell of a lot worse in terror investigations and ted cruz says he doesnt see widespread use but would be open to waterboarding. But in an nbc news exclusive, cia director john brennan said the agency wont engage in harsh Interrogation Practices even if ordered by the next president. I would not agree to having any cia officer carrying out waterboarding again. Yeah, were not going to. The stupidity that surrounds this topic. What year is this . 2016 . America waterboarded three people. The level of stupidity, the complete, absolute ignorance that is exercise bid the news media over this issue is confound i confounding. You waterboarded people, three people ever, only three people ever. And the reason we did that over a decade ago was to make them believe ksm was one of them. Ksm was one of them. Spilled his guts, told us everything and if anybody thinks hes brain damaged, just go talk to ksm for a while. Hes hes as sharp as ever so you can see butt he let me say again. I had a cia guy dell me this years ago. The entire purpose of the program was to put doubt in peoples mind so they didnt know what was coming next, to throw them off their balance. Said it was all a scam, a great elaborate scam. Obviously because waterboarding is now out on the table, three people were waterboarded between 2002 and 2005 i think. Its never going to be used again. But heres my problem, now theyre not even talking about doing what we do to our own guys in training, sleep deprivation, suddenly thats enhanced interrogation techniques. Promising somebody a cupcake but giving them a cupcake while you lick off half the icing off the top. Thats now considered torture. Okay. By the new lets bring in republican congressman [ laughter ] he served in the air no, sir both iraq and afghanistan. Its the stupidest conversation and it continues because it makes people feel morally superior while being completely ignorant of this process 13 years. The most effective interrogation i experienced this in my training the most effective interrogation is when youre scared but the guy comes in and puts his arm and you and goes im sorry youre going through this, it is what it is, lets get through this together. Just give me a couple things. Thats the most effective way to interrogate but when you have like donald trump saying were going to do a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding, its silly and it doesnt do anything for its never going to happen. Doesnt do anything for our National Security and i just got back from the middle east and everybody is asking about comments like this. Theyre like is donald trump going to be president because this is scary and hes going to ban everybody and whatever. So our political conversation has a real imfact our National Security. You oppose donald trump. Is it on the grounds of National Security. Could you get there if he hadnt made comments about our alliances with nato . I remember a month and a half ago thinking, okay, id probably be okay with donald trump and then some of the defenserelated things and just most recently saying, well, i dont even know if we need nato. I dont know if he confused nato for the united nations. Sometimes republicans say we dont need the u. N. Even though i think the u. N. Is important but to say nato is mind blowing and then to make comments about banning all muslims. Look, the best allies in the war on terror need to be moderate muslims because if you have human intelligence you have moderate muslims you recruit into that. But is some of this on us . As republican wes havent articulated the benefit to Americas National. I know youre a fan of what paul ryan is doing, trying to have a message but isnt some of this on us . Absolutely. Look, we have not done a good job of articulating our values. You know, republicans think that a kid born to the toughest part of chicago should have the same opportunity to succeed as a kid born in the richest suburb of washington, d. C. We have to articulate our heart and we dont do that, instead we just talk numbers and what were against and people have come around to believe that were not really compassionate. Jon meachum has a question for the congressman. Can you give us an assessment of where you feel the fight against isis is at this point . Well, its better than it was. Look, were almost two years into it now and isis still exists in a big way. I think obviously were stepping up with special forces operations, the use of b 52s now, this is all a good thing. My only bigger problem is this has been two years and we have to be an end game in syria, this is not going to get fixed until we have an end game in syria. What should that end game be . I think at the end of the day its going to be the toppling of assad because assad cannot survive and take over syria again. Who replaces assad . Im gng to be some kind of form of whatever government post assad thats maybe a coalition, but assad cant take control of all of syria again. What about a twostate solution . It could be a twostate solution. Let assad for now for purposes of stability keep his part and have somebody else take the part that isis is over. The problem is, though, is assad is the trigger for a lot of this. He is the reason people rose up to rebel in the first place. I was in israel in 2011 and i remember looking down and theyre like a little bit of disturbance in syria right now, starting to rebel against the dictator. We have to remember that the bloodline of assads bloodletting goes back to his father and its really deep. With his in power but also without him in power the after rad world is willing to come in and do a lot to stabilize that country. Thank you very much. Jon meachum thank you as well. You can see more of the cia directors exclusive director with Richard Engel tonight on nbc nightly news. Still ahead this morning on morning joe. You can see all the setups, but theres no rvs there, hooked up to them anymore. I still have friends that were laid off with me and other companies that i know that are still looking for work that have been unemployed for about six months or more now. So its pretty brutal. Youre seeing foreclosures, youre seeing repossessions of homes, youre seeing cars repossessed. Its pretty ugly out there right now. From boom to bust how the downturn in the oil markets is turning places that just a year ago had explosive growth into ghost towns. Thats ahead in our next hour. Stay with us. Wnload the new app . Were good. Okay. What if a Million People download the new app . Were good. Five million . Good. We scale on demand. Hybrid infrastructure, boom. Ok. What if 30 Million People download the app . 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Oh, i dont hire people. Im a developer. Im gonna need monday off. Again, not my call. We believe in the power of active management. Anagement, we actively manage with expertise and conviction. So you can invest with more certainty. Mfs. Thats the power of active management. Up next, donald trump expands his message to take on what he considers to be a rigged delegate system. Speaking of which, Bernie Sanders ran away with the state of wyoming over the weekend by 12 points. The voters there have made a huge impact mika, the voters have spoken. Your vote counted. Count every vote. Nope. It actually doesnt. Every vote matters. So how did Hillary Clinton walk away with more delegates . I thought their votes counted. Well dig into the fuzzy math next on morning joe. You both have a perfect driving record. Perfect. No tickets. No accidents. That is until one of you clips a food truck, ruining your perfect record. Yeah. 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Because no one knows like at t. Which allergyeees. Bees . Eese. Trees . Eese. Xerox helps hospitals use Electronic Health records so doctors provide more personalized care. Cheese . Cheese patient care can work better. With xerox. Thats it. How was your commute . Good. Yours . Good. Xerox real time analytics make transit systems run more smoothly. And morning chitchat. Less interesting. Transportation can work better. With xerox. Good monday morning to you all. It is monday. Yes. Its supposed to be spring. Im trying to will it so. You look great. Thats great winter white. Welcome to morning joe. On set we have the managing editor of Bloomberg Politics and hosts of with all due respect, all though they are not very respectful, joe, it airs at 6 00 p. M. On msnbc, Mark Halperin and John Heilemann, also nicolle wallace. In winter white. Here is the deal, we cant complain. We had such a great winter. I know. But im ready for it to it would be nice. It was snowing in connecticut. We had some flurries. Thats never ideal. A couple interesting things happening as we start the week. First of all, nicolle, i know your parents had to be relieved, as was my brother, the Trump Campaign in many ways starting to show that discipline that everybody has been suggesting they needed to show. Trump not running on 20 shows on sunday, not tweeting up, you know, storms against, you know, megyn kelly or other people, have a Campaign Manager that takes the slings and arrows on sunday. Theyre doing it the way youre supposed to at least pretend to do it. Yeah, and i dont know that i would call it discipline yet, but i think the big question and there was a lot of gate last tuesday night about whether or not he could make adjustments and he has. So i think there were people that didnt think he was capable of evolving and he has, and i think that this message that hes on now about how hes losing when he wins is the one that he rides into the convention. Its a great message. He had gone im talking tactically. His failures were rooted in the fact that he had gone way off message, that the message had been totally lost, i think et cetera got himself back on message most importantly. Whether you agree with it or not and of course his critics will call it whining, but it is just a great message for an insurgent to write, again, all the way into against a rigged system, which is the animating purpose of this cycle. The entire cycle. The system is rigged. Even when i win they steal it from us. The idiots running the Colorado Republican Party tweeting out never trump after they award all the delegates to ted cruz without a single voter going to the polls to vote. I mean, everything seems to be playing into this message, into this hand. The nomination is within his grasp. He doesnt entirely control his own destiny, but pretty close, and what he remembers about this message to make it about the voters and not about himself it is a very effective message for right now. And its an effective message that he happens to be doing it at a time where hes just blowing everybody away in polls. You know, colorado can have their party games, you know, without having voters actually go to the polls to vote, but he could say but in new york, you know, real people are going to vote and im up by 25 points. In pennsylvania real people are going to vote and im blowing them all away. We were on the show the other day and i said something about how its always a mistake if a party goes to war with its own voters, just like if a business goes to war with its own consumers. If trump can make it seem as though the Republican Party is at war with its voters he wins. Something happened over the weekend in golf. Mika, im so impressed that you yes. It was on the front page of the wall street journal and usa today. Its a tradition like no other. It is. And a melt down like as the New York Times found out in like 2002 or 2003. Did anybody see this . I watched it after okay. Jordan spieth way ahead, the guy led is it spieth. Yeah, spieth was ahead last year, all four rounds, he was ahead the whole time here, he goes to the back nine he bowingees ten, he bowingees 11 and then he starts looking like me. He throws thats not good. No thats not good. He throws a couple did he start cursing and digging holes into the ground with a stick . I believe he got a quad drum bogie. A stick . The club. Right as we were making it we were talking about what an extraordinary achievement this was going to be. I went out, you know, to the corner store, got a falafel, they will a lot of those up in new kay then, i come back in the spicy sauce and hes behind. He was like four behind. How long do these things go on . It takes a long time. Days. You can take a long drive. Really . And people sit and watch. Amazing, yeah. Most incredible part was he almost came back again. You had nothing to say about the Golden State Warriors. You go ahead. The Golden State Warriors tied the record for most regular season wins with one game remaining. I think were in the weeds. Its a huge story. I think we will get back to politics now. New polls show donald trump if they were in the eastern time zone they would lead the show. As Mike Barnicle would say they might as well be playing in beijing. New polls show donald trump with a large lead over his opponents in two of the states up next to vote. In new york a fox news poll shows trump leading by 32 points, 54 to john kasichs 22 . Ted cruz is at 15 . Lets stop there. Lets go back there a second. Okay. Stay in new york. Massive lead. Nicolle, this is obviously going to grab most of the headlines for the next couple weeks and if youre donald trump and you decide to do a reboot and you decide to bring in Paul Manafort, you decide to go establishment as much as possible, now is a pretty great time to do t isnt it, because you can do it and then tell all your critics, look, look what ive done, ive rebooted and i just won by 30 seconds in the second most important state in america. That matters for the first time in a really long time. I think he is in a very strong position and i go back to this notion that the climate that both parties are running in is against a rigged economy, against a rigged political establishment and i think cruz loses by winning because i think that feels rigged. If it feels against the democratic process. And so i know theyre doing incredible things in these state conventions, i know thats where the game was moved, but i dont think that that is an advantage on the larger field that this race is being played on. When theres a head line, mark, that cruz has managed to go in and steal delegates in South Carolina from donald trump and of course the press jumps up and down and says look how stupid trumps operation no. I dont know about their operation but i do know this, people remember that donald trump beat the hell out of everybody in South Carolina, among the voters, the voters came out and voted for donald trump and when theyre reading stories weeks later saying, oh, trump is such a fool, all he knew how to do was get the voters to vote for him but hes such a moron that the Party Insiders are turning against him. Im sure a lot of people on twitter delight in that. I can just tell you it makes cruz look bad, it makes the party look bad, it makes the system look rigged and as weve been saying since the first day he came down the escalator, this type of coverage only makes donald trump stronger. It does, but it may keep him from being the nominee. This is exactly analogous to 2000. We learned about how florida votes and how the country votes in 2000 and how much error there is and in a close election those things matter. In this which is shaping up to be a close battle these are the rules and the Republican Party its not a government election, its a private party and i agree with you that a lot of voters will be exercised and already are by whats happening to donald trump but these are the rules and the cruz people are playing by the rules. I note alley understand the rules and im the one who said if he gets 1,236 they can send him home, those are the rules, im just talking the pr of it, it just looks bad. It looks bad for the party. Most importantly it feeds into his narrative. His brand. And florida the lesson in florida i worked on that campaign, i worked on those recounts and the principle legal and otherwise is that if you are ahead in the first count its very hard to lose. Donald trump will go into the convention ahead with the most delegates most likely. Im talking about the mechanics. Im talking about the pr because i dont think there has been much mechanical about Donald Trumps rise. I watched a one hour special on another network last night where he was really the first person to speak to these mass layoffs, to make trade about human beings. If he stays on his message which on the economy is about trade, its about things that no other republicans are talking about, and if he gets to the convention talking about winning in the vote and talks about and rails against a rigged system, i dont know how he loses. I dont know how the party recovers from being perceived as taking it. Especially, mika, when you look at the numbers coming in from these big states. Look at pennsylvania, trump has a 26 point advantage ahead of kasich, 48 to 22 , cruz is in a close third at 20 . So there you have Jon Heilemann also in pennsylvania which at least in the last poll we saw a week or so ago much closer after donald trump had his horrific twoweek run. Looks like the bleeding stops and things have turned back around. Notice ted cruz the only guy who can beat donald trump is in third place in all of these polls, third place behind john kasich, the man he said should drop out of the race. Yeah, i mean, i think these views are, in fact, compatible. The question is if trump trump has to perform exceptionally well between now and the end of the primaries in order to get to 1,237. The argument against a rigged system makes him powerful between now and the end of june. Right. And it gives him the best argument to try to get to 1,237 or 1,238. I think im with you, if he gets to the end of june and he is not at 1,237 you head to a convention as mark is talking about, then the question is i think the party doesnt care whether it looks good or doesnt look good. If the party wants to try to keep him from being the nominee he can make all the arguments in the world about how he has the most votes the argument in response will be you are still a historically weak front runner you didnt get to the majority and we have these rules in place in which we have a contested convention, multiple ballots, et cetera, et cetera. That may be suicidal for the party but the people against trump think its suicidal for trump to be the nominee. Again just so were clear here, the argument i think and nicolle youre making the same argument i think im making that to get to 1,237 the best way you do that is you talk about how rigged the system is. Even if you think youre going to get over 1,237 you keep blasting the system as being rigged and keep pounding away and then you get there and if he comes up 100 short its going to be hard for the party to not give it to him. If he comes up 200, 300 short, thats a different thing, but also if you have ted cruz finishing in third place in a lot of these northeast primaries, it makes it harder for ted cruz to say in his shakespearian rhetoric me, me, me, me, me, me. Thats pretty good. Im the only one that can beat donald trump. Thats what he does before he speaks to get ready. Is that what he does . Absolutely. Its complete disconnect from the person ted cruz which is always very disturbing. All right. Lets move to the democratic side. The new fox news polls what . Im just speaking the truth. We do have a disturbance in the force here between ted cruz and maek . No, theres nothing. Its not between me and him, its between him and like everybody. You all think t every single one of you and whenever he speaks you all go like this. She says it. She said she said it. And you cringe and you do the freeze face. What is that called, the standing or resting i dont know, but its like whenever he speaks. Its true. Do you know the face im talking about . Theres a kind of smile, right . Lets go to democrats. Fantastic. Lets look at new york, it has Hillary Clinton up 16 points, 53 to Bernie Sanders 37 . Thats going to be, what, a clean sweep for her . Well, we dont know. Clinton has a double digit lead in pennsylvania in the fox news poll 49 to sanders 38. Lets talk about these two polls. Surprised by the margin . I think he needs to go to rome, i think thats the way to close the gap. A two day trip to rome. I think most of us that is pretty incredible. One poll i think the race is a little bit closer than that, but it is her home state, it is a diverse state and, you know, he basically last week did not take full advantage of winning wisconsin. Okay. He got in a bunch of fights. Do you agree with Mark Halperin that for Bernie Sanders to do better he needs to go to rome, new york, theyve got a big military facility up there. Hes been invited, right . Rome, new york. I find the entire thing totally baffling. If the pope were there and the pope were going to meet with Bernie Sanders. In rome, new york. In rome, new york, or vatican city, italy, i would totally understand it. In this context with a must win New York Primary to leave the country to go anywhere other than to meet the pope himself makes no sense to me at all and leaves him open to i keep thinking the day is going to come next tuesday Bernie Sanders is going to close this gap, every place he goes and campaigns he closes the gap or overtakes Hillary Clinton, hes spending a lot of time in this state, hes going to close that gap. You go away for two days and take away your biggest advantage which is sanders being on the ground, you fall three points short in new york are you going to look up and say that was a good move to go to italy . I think he needs to do a teleconference from rome, new york. Bernie sanders winning streak continued over the weekend with a victory in the wyoming caucuses on saturday. Sanders beat Hillary Clinton by 12 points, 56 to 44, notching his eighth win in the last nine nominating contests. Okay. What do we do here . It sounds like hes winning. He has won eight out of nine. But hes losing. He wins by 12 points. I would not do well as a democratic politician. He wins by 12 points, he may not even pick up a single delegate. Its 7 to 6 now with the remaining delegate to be decided later. Im sorry, thats a crushing victor victory. Listen, i think with the super delegates that they have i think she only has to win 30 of the vote in the remaining contest. Talk about voters feeling like a system might be rigged. Why are you even voting in wyoming . If youre driving in the car right now weve been talking about rigged systems, were putting up a graphic. Bernie sanders wins 56 to 44 in wyoming, the delegates rewarded, Hillary Clinton 11, Bernie Sanders 7. Why does the Democratic Party even have voting booths . Why . This system is so rigged. They fall into line better than our voters do, but i can see some of the same emotions boiling over at their convention. But we always talk about voter turnout and how important it is to do your duty as a citizen. Theres absolutely no reason any of those people voted in any of those states, right . Whats the justification for that. Please someone tell me. These are the rules. Thats not a good answer. Tell me why those people needed to go vote if their votes dont matter. Its not rigged. Do their votes matter, Mark Halperin . Yeah, they do. Do they count in some way. Where you turn out. How . Only in some parts of the country it matters. I dont think its a good system but he won by 12 Percentage Points and lost in the delegate count. Do you think that the democrats and republicans change their delegate allotment processes after this cycle . Only if the winner of the white house decides he or she wants to change it which is unlikely. These are the rules i dont really its not like the cruz people or clinton people have gone in and fix it had or rigged it. True. Thats fair. Lets talk about the democrats for now. Here is a party that ends is their activists out and have people chattering on tv and chattering on talk radio about voter disenfranchisement if you make somebody show a picture of themselves this same party tells voters go straight to hell when they select somebody by 12 Percentage Points and end up letting the other candidate who lost by 12 Percentage Points win the most delegates. That by definition is voter disenfranchisement so it is a rigged system on the democratic side, even worse than the republican side and i dont know why democratic voters put up with it. Still ahead on morning joe, can ted cruz or john kasich make a dent in Donald Trumps lead in new york and pennsylvania . And later, beyond going door to door how a practice known as deep canvassing can revolutionize the way campaigns work to change voters minds. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. When pain tries to stop you, theres motrin. 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Coming up on morning joe, as the media seems to be salivating that donald trump got outhustled in colorado, foaming at the mouth, back in his home state of new york is he on track for a resounding victory . Hallie jackson joins us live next. Next for your business. A True Partnership where people, technology and ideas push everyone forward. Accelerating innovation. Accelerating transformation. Accelerating next. Hewlett packard enterprise. I have an orcogram we for an owen. E. Thats me. You should hire stacy drew. She wants to change the world with you. She can program jet engines to talk and such. Her biggest weakness is she cares too much. Thank you. My friend really wants a job at ge. Mine too. Im a wise elf from a far off shire. And sanjay patel is who you should hire. Thank you. Seriously though, stacy went to a great school and shes really loyal. You should give her a shot. Sanjays a team player and uh. Thope to see you again soon. Whoa, whoa, i got this. 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I have x1 from xfinity so. Dont fall for directv. Xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. I used to like that song. If we go into a contested convention were going to have a ton of delegates, donald is going to have a ton of delegates and its going to be a battle in cleveland to see who can eastern the majority of the delegates that were elected by the people. Let me tell you in that scenario i think we will go in with an overwhelming advantage, i believe the first ballot will be the highest vote total donald trump receives and on a subsequent ballot were going to win the nomination and earn a majority. Its 26 past the hour. What a happy time. It is. Is this a happy time . Everybody, this is the happiest show on the television, everybody. So many smiles. One great big family on camera and off camera. Its kind of like reporter room. I think you owe luna an apolo apology. Does alex not set you up for failure every morning . She goes all right. With us now we have nbc news correspondent Hallie Jackson toss covering the kruds campaign and she is a little nervous that shes here. I like t i was stressed about your running, other than that im good. My ticker. Look at me, im old. You dont want me running down the halls. Its good exercise. Hi. Hi. What about if we got the skates. Roller skates. Or a segue. Donald trumps new righthand man raised questions over the weekend about the tactics that the Cruz Campaign is using to secure delegates. What are you hearing . Yes. Can you say it in shakespearian, please. I dont know if i can say it in shakespearian, lets have Paul Manafort say it. He talked to chuck yesterday on meet the press. He was pretty strong about it. We will talk about it on the other side. What is fair game to win a delegate . Is threatening a fair game . Its not my style, its not Donald Trumps style, but it is ted cruzs style and thats going to wear thin have i fast. You think hes threatening delegates . You go to these county conventions and you see the gestapo tactics. Thats a strong word. We will be filing several protests because the reality is they are not playing by the rules. Guest an poe tactics. The Trump Campaign is issuing falsehoods to distract from their failure that they have the entire the Cruz Campaign touting its superior organization saying theyre working within the process and rules that have been established. Donald trump amping up these complaints that the system is stacked against him. The Cruz Campaigns response is if you dont like the system this is what an aid said to me then you shouldnt be in the system. Another adviser said to me this morning that the whole point is that the system was created by these republicans who are coming to the convention in cleveland and by insulting the system youre insulting these grass roots volunteers who pour their heart and soul into the party and working for the party. The problem is for the Cruz Campaign that is a message they have to get out but theyre stuck explaining the rules instead of a couple things playing off on this. First of all, again, proving that the Trump Campaign is maturing, finally, you actually have somebody going on the sunday shows saying the outrageous things instead of the candidate himself talking about gestapo like tactics. But how fascinating do we actually have somebody else there. First of all. Secondly, lets touch on what we said off air, the Cruz Campaign, despite the shakespearian delivery and everything, they are the pros of this entire campaign they are the pros. They are the people that dont take it personally, they are the people you can attack on one day and the next day, yeah, what do you need. Very organized. The most organized. I again, i dont i dont even know any of the people that run that campaign but without a doubt from a distance theres not a close second as far as a great run campaign. You cant win either Party Nomination without a great inside game and outside game. Trump has had the best outside game any of us have ever seen, by hiring Paul Manafort theyre beefing up their inside game. Thats what im saying inside game. The Cruz Campaign has run a decent outside game, their candidate is a decent communicator in some ways but their inside game has been underrated, calendar planning, scheduling, very strong. I would have never guessed in a million years that this guy whose public image is not likeable and he said as much himself would win as many states as he has won. Again, whats interesting is i actually think their outside game has been quite weak in a lot of ways and cruz has done as a nothing very little thats been memorable in terms of public communication. Right. It would be hard at this point even no you this deep into the primary to make a case that you understand what his message is in contrast to trump, which is crystal clear, everyone in the world can tell you what donald trump is running on in terms of issues, themes, slogans. Cruz apart from being very conservative its not like there has been a resonant theme or argument that he has made but the inside game has been really, really powerful. In terms of real genuine invasions, the way in which they put together an array of super pacs and got those super pacs to coordinate together. Theyre playing the old game well and in terms of adapting to the new age of how politics now works in terms of inside game theyre doing that really well, too, theyve been innovators in a lot of ways. Trump has played the outside game like nobody ever has before but this inside game by the cruz people really impressive. A new Analysis Finds trump isnt just fueled by a surge of working class voters without degrees, the share of Trump Supporters who make more than 100,000 per year is almost exactly the same as the share of Trump Supporters who make less than 50. As for education, trump about 74 of Trump Supporters do not have College Degrees but according to data about 71 of all americans dont have College Degrees. The data also finds trump does best among very wealthy voters without College Degrees such as small Business Owners. And really to be fair about it, mika, though i have a College Degree most of the time you cant tell. Right. Well, thats true. But because you went to the university of alabama all you need to do is count to number one every year. Thats my joke. I say it and people laugh. An interesting story that could have big implications for political campaigns. In 2012 president obamas Reelection Team was laser focused on the political power of door to door canvassing. But its not just about reminding folks where to vote or caucus, the New York Times magazine wrote about a potentially Ground Breaking study who found how facetoface conversations even brief ones can actually change voters minds on hot button issues and that opens up a brave new world for candidates and causes. Joining us from los angeles is the man Whose Organization is pro filed in that article the director of the l. A. Based Leadership Lab and a pioneer in political canvassing, Dave Fleischer also with us, assistant professor of political economy at stanfords school of business david brock man who shows voters issues can shift when their own personal experiences are brought into play. Do you know we will start with dave or david . Lets go with dave. Dave, could it be that were more disconnected than ever before from our neighborhoods and communities that facetoface interaction will have more of an impact than it may have had ten years ago . Youre absolutely right. Face to face interaction is extraordinarily powerful, especially when its a twoway conversation because most Political Communications that campaigns indulge in are oneway communications, telling voters what to think, but voters are a lot more persuaded and likely to change their mind and become less prejudice when we have twoway conversations. You know, its interesting when you look at Bernie Sanders and what draws people to him its issues and people are brought in by, you know, the conversation about whats happening in this country. They are, but ted cruz, though, again, going the inside game. Going back to ted cruz and the inside game, we learned very early in iowa that he was doing a lot of things, door knocking, actually doing profiling of people that they were going to see at the door. Micro, microtargeting. I mean, they knew these peoples issues and what mattered to them and what they had to say. Thats what youre seeing about the delegate strategy and delegate game. My question to you, david or dave, how do campaigns implement your research . How do they move forward taking your research . Whats the plan and smartest strategy if you are a political candidate going ahead and use your data . Well, one important implication from what weve learned is that there is a much broader swath of voters who are truly undecided and persuadable. So the prescribing row targeting you were just referring to can easily lead us to make a mistake and spend almost all of our time just talking to people who agree with us. The truth is a much larger number of people would be willing to agree with us if we just take the time to talk with them. I think what i would highlight is a variety of political tactics, television ads, mass mailers, they might have some effects, but what research tends to find is that those effects evaporate pretty quickly. Whats unique here not just that so many voters minds were changing in response to a door to door canvassing program that dave and his volunteers were helping run but that shift has lasted. If a campaign wants to do work as the Bernie Sanders campaign has been doing many months before an election to build up lasting support do you mean tifl in the months before an election, thats really what this Research Suggests door to door canvassing has a unique potential to do. Jon heilemann. Explain the evolution of this thinking. You started to do this research a while back. What was the genesis that led you to doing this work . It came out of the loss on a statewide vote in california on samesex marriage called prop 8 back in 2008 because public polling at the time showed, in fact, that lgbt community, the pro gay marriage side would win it handily and, in fact, marriages were occurring, gay and lesbian couples were getting married. Then election day came and we lost and people were outraged and shocked and out of that the idea that we had at the Los Angeles Lgbt Center was lets go talk to the people who voted against us and ask them why they did that because obviously we just arent understanding what is worrying them when it comes to gay people. So if you have an issue that can be as divisive as this issue that deals with peoples some deeply held beliefs knocking on doors and engaging personally you think that can have an impact in moving those votes . Well, thats what the data shows is that when we take the time to have those conversations, one in ten voters are changing their mind and changing their mind in a way that lasts. One of the things that really surprised me as a social scientist about some of the data that were seeing from our independent evaluation of their work is to speak to the point about targeting, with he actually tend to fwiend democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives, men and women, voters of all kinds are persuaded by these kinds of conversations. It seems like there might be something about a certainly interaction and the way in which you can build a rapport and get people to be comfortable with the person theyre talking to, realize they might see both sides of the issue, that allow campaigns to persuade a broader swath of the electorate than they might think traditionally is possible. Thank you guys so much. You know, its interesting because we obviously know candidates knock on the door, maybe you can move from one person in a primary to another, but to move on big issues like that that is a fairly Ground Breaking study. Hallie, we will be seeing you a lot this week. I know, eight days. How exciting. Its going to be crazy. I know. Still ahead, the oil market is beginning to show signs of life again, but the severe downturn continues to make life tough for small towns. That was just a year ago full of life thanks to the oil booms. We will drill into that next. vo on the trane test range, you learn what makes our heating and cooling systems so reliable. If theres a breaking point, well find it. Its hard to stop a trane. Really hard. And im still struggling with my diabetes. I do my best to manage. But its hard to keep up with it. Your body and your diabetes change over time. Your treatment plan may too. Know your options. Oncedaily toujeo® is a longacting insulin from the makers of lantus®. It releases slowly to provide consistent insulin levels for a full 24 hours. Toujeo® also provides proven full 24hour blood sugar control and significant a1c reduction. 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One year ago we took a look at all the energy thats being tapped into run america and domestic oil was starting to play a big part of the equation, but back then oil prices were falling, down to about 50 a barrel, analysts predicted it would come back as the oil market tends to do but so far it hasnt regrounded to where it was and that means some tough sometimes for the towns built to pump that oil. We went back to the heart of Americas Energy revolution the eagle ford shale where one boom down is beginning to look like a ghost town. The population sign a says 5,600. There were days where Police Believe it had swollen to four times that. A lot of traffic, a lot of people. Traffic. Traffic. Couldnt find a parking space at walmart. It was horrible. There were literally towns that couldnt support the electricity, the sewer, the water demands. It doesnt feel like home because of all the outsiders and people. Now texas roads that were choked with trucks and man camps as theyre known that were full of life are instead quiet because as the price of oil has plummeted so from the fortunes of this small town. It was dark, but yet it was bright because there were flares everywhere. Now when i drive around its very, very bleak. The rig count is at 489. Thats three or four rigs off the all time low in the United States. Thats from a peek of 2,100 plus rigs in early 2014. A year ago corizzo springs was attracting new hotels, a year ago the red dog ice house was full of out of town workers spending their money on dinner and drinks, a year ago man camps were full and everywhere. Now some are abandoned, others have just 20 to 30 residents with capacity for more than 400. In the years after the recession the incredible growth attracted workers from across the country and sent unemployment to under 3 . But its beginning to rise again. The Ripple Effect of that is huge. Restaurants, movie theaters, you name it. The oil industry has been shaken up all over the state, an estimated 50,000 jobs lost in houston last year alone. Its a blood bath out there. I mean, it actually has affected hundreds of thousands of peoples lives. You see yards that are stacked with equipment because its not being used and other yards that are completely empty because they have already gone under. A career ago the mayor had big plans for his little town. Hopefully god willing we have some shopping centers, you know, thats a big goal of mine and we would have found a way to make it all work. Now hes out of office and he can only watch as growth in his hometown slows to a call. With these big layoffs we have less jobs of course and less people with money in their pockets, every job you can think of its affected it left to right, top to bottom. Ruth grew up here, too, she followed her dreams to the sheriffs department. Its what i love to do, ive always loved it since i was a little girl. I always wanted to do it and i think its a calling. Youve got to have a calling for it. But in the years since the shale boom she has seen her town transformed, explosive growth suddenly gone. The hotels are empty, the man camps are empty, rv parks completely empty. When boom turns to bust it can all be packed up and taken away as quickly as it appeared. The chandelier at the red dog ice house hangs from a ceiling that can be taken down when its time to go. We still have hopes that the oil boom will come back. I know it will come back, just a lot of politics. I hope so we all need it and need that money coming in. Lets bring in michelle carusocabrera. Michelle, where are owl markets right now . Right now were waiting to see whether oil produced in the United States can cross back above 40 bucks a barrel. We touched there last week, but it didnt close there. That would be a dramatic improvement compared to what we have seen as you highlighted in the story when you look at the twoyear chart of oil it looks like its straight down, when you bring up the three month chart, however, you can see that its actually started to rise. These numbers really matter here for the United States for the following reason, all over the world it costs different amounts of money to take oil out of the ground. The reason there has been so much oil produced in the United States is because theres this new technology, horizontal drilling and fracking which means that oil that we couldnt get before in the United States now we can get. Thats tremendous but guess what its expensive, it costs between 40 and 60 per barrel to get it out of the ground. Saudi arabia where the joke is you can literally stick a straw in the ground and suck it up it costs 5 pucks a barrel for them to extract. They can live with Lower Oil Prices for much longer and theyre also not economically driven. We have investors in these wells and when the wells arent profitable they stop investing, saudi arabia everything is politically driven so they dont have to curtail investments depending on what we want to do. Michelle carusocabrera, thank you very much. Up next, tip oneal once famously said that all politics are local. Up next we will explain why all politics is also global. Stay with us. We can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations with nothing but a phone and a tablet. Everywhere where theres a phone, you have a bank. Now a person is able to start a business, and employ somebody for the first time. The microsoft cloud helped us to bring banking to ten Million People in just two years. Its transforming our world. Its more than tits security and flexibility. Its where great ideas and vital data are stored. With centurylink you get advanced Technology Solutions from a trusted it partner. Including cloud and hosting services all backed by an industry leading Broadband Network and people committed to helping you grow your business. You get a company thats more than just the sum of its parts. Centurylink. Your link to whats next. We believe in the power of active management. Management, by debating our research to find the best investments. By looking at global and local insights to benefit from different points of view. And by consistently breaking apart risk to focus on longterm value. We actively manage with expertise and conviction. So you can invest with more certainty. Mfs. Thats the power of active management. Clear for take off. Roger that see ya we are outta here woo when youre living with diabetes. Steady is exciting. Oh this is living baby only glucerna has carbsteady, to help minimize blood sugar spikes. Thats what im talking about and try new glucerna hunger smart with 15 grams of protein to help you feel full. Glucerna. Steady ahead. Sure, we cor put them stacked on a rack. S. But the specialists at ford like to show off their strengths 13 name brands. All backed by our low price tire guarantee. Yeah, were strong when it comes to tires. Right now during the big tire event, get a 120 rebate by mail on four select tires. When your ford needs service, these are the specialists. At ford. You might be thinking to yourself how can we possibly persuade World Leaders to sustain a focus on global issues. Indeed the powerful american politician tip oneal once said all politics is local. Thats what always got politicians elected. To speak, gain and hold on to power through the pursuit of local or very best national interests. What was the ceo of Global Citizen hugh evans delivering a ted talk earlier in year about the intersection between Political Leadership and the major issues facing our world. His ted talk is Available Online starting its launching right now. Five minutes from now. Four minutes from now. Thats really like in the moment. We are in the moment with you. How are you . Tell us the message. Whats the bottom line of your ted talk . The bottom line, joe, is that, you know, im convinced that if we had more Global Citizens active in our world then every single one of the major challenges we face from conflict, Climate Change, disease, these challenges they become voluntarily ofable and the reason is because they are ultimately global challenges and ultimately can only be solved by Global Citizens demanding Global Solutions from their leadership. Are you surprised by how well Global Citizen has taken off . We are so excited. Last year more than 100,000 new citizens signed up each and every week of the year. Weve grown to have 7. 5 Members Around the world taking action day and in day out. This is a big year for us as well. If people want to get involved what do they do . The best way to get involved is to go to globalcitizen. Org and take action. Each of your actions earning you points and you can use those points to redeem rewards at global festival in september but also concerts all around the world. How are you looking at handling, discussing with or discussing about the candidates in the president ial election . Obviously Global Citizen as a nonprofit is bipartisan but we las want to ensure that candidates take a progressive role when it comes to looking at the future of our world. If you consider issues like gender equality, we want to ensure people are treated with dignity, respect and equal opportunity, the issue of Girls Education which is something we care passionately about. Poverty. Yeah, poverty ee leave yags, exactly. These are things that are squarely in our wheelhouse. While we wont be endorsing any specific candidate we will be ensuring that the policies that will alleviate poverty and will actually ensure people can be lifted out of extreme poverty over the coming years are supported. Jon heilemann. Almost all the issues that you talked about that are big huge global issues are receiving it seems to me almost no discussion whatsoever on the campaign trail in this campaign, not talking about global poverty, Climate Change largely. What can your group do to try to influence in a nonpartisan or bipartisan way to influence the actual discussion thats taking place among our potential leaders of this country . Last week you might have seen the leak of the panama papers, youre seeing an intersection between tax avoidance and global poverty, the reason people continue to be perpetuated in poverty is many people are engaged in rent seeking so this err actually not paying their dues to the country of origin and we have greater levels of poverty. There is a strong intersection between the crept issues that are being discussed on the political trail and the issue of extreme poverty but you have to come at it through things like trying to combat corruption or tax avoidance in the case of panama papers. Go ahead. Go ahead. Whats your one goal for 2016, your big goal, the big idea for this year . The big goal for this year is that we want to build an Unstoppable Movement of Global Citizens who have enough political salience that when a Major Political issue comes before congress or parliament in britain or parliament in the United States there is a political constituency of Global Citizens who say im going to act on that and a im going to ensure that my candidate that i vote for behaves in a way that ultimately and youre moving into india now. We are. We have a big year ahead of us. Hugh evans come back at any time. Anything we can do at morning joe to help you let us know. Thank you mika, thank you joe. Its like up in one minute. Ted talk. Man dear mr. Danoff, my wife and i are now participating in your mutual fund. We invested in your fund to help us pay for a College Education for our son. Weve enclosed a picture of our son so that you can get a sense there are real people out here trusting you with their hardearned money. 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The system is rigged on the count of three can everybody say the system is rigged. One, two, three. The system is rigged. America. Now pass the kcupcakes. Steve kornacki picks up our coverage after a break right now, actually. Have a great day, everybody. Can you turn this, please. Hes right there. Keep turning it. Right there. Yeah. Were going to him now. Okay . And good morning. Im steve kornacki. Topping our agenda this hour, donald trump goes 0 for colorado. Weve got a corrupt system. Its not right. Were supposed to be a democracy. The republican front runner once again finding himself out organized and out hustled by ted cruz and this time tsz cost trump all 34 from the state of colorado. Were going to have all the latest on the stop trump