Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20150914

safe place to go. we'll be joined later with an indepth look. >> this also, nfl season started yesterday. a quick reminder of how to sport really is. in week one of the nfl season, game one of the jets, the dark cloud has been a fixture of the league descended on met life stadium as if it had been waiting for that moment. 14 minutes for the first concussion, 25 minutes for a star jet's player to tear up his knee and three and a half quarters for a player to be carted off the field motionless as teammates, opponents and fans and thousands of tv viewers looked on. it's the violence that nfl packages brilliantly and violently without shame. the violence goes to another level in the nfl and it's every week. it happens every week. >> next they're going to have to really. >> that was just in one game. >> just in one game. and it's just, the players keep getting bigger and faster and you've talked about it before, willie. you're in like 10 car accidents a game. >> when you're a linebacker and you can run 240. that's a small car accident. odell beckam early in the game took a big hit. staggered and walked off the sideline and was back a play later. can't imagine he went through the concussion protocol. this is happening almost every play in the nfl. >> let's start with politics. the new poling. >> have you seen the new poling? >> troubling numbers f for hill clinton out of new hampshire and iowa. bernie sanders widening his lead. he's now ahead of clinton by 22 points. >> let's stop there. 5 52% and 30% over hillary clinton. for a change, we seen last week poles of her losing 10 points. this is 22 points. >> if this were, the thing, the skill of sanders surge and clinton's decline, every time we see a new pole we're surprised by the numbers. this has been the most significant thing on this constant projecture f constant project for months. you see each one and think wow, it can't get worse than that and a week or two weeks later it's worse than that. >> we now have two front runners in the two main states where everybody es campaigning. but bernie sanders winning by 22 points, that's equally impre impressive and trump winning in all of his poles. who are these experts? if bernie is up by 22 points he's got a shot. >> look at these pole numbers. 22 there you mentioned bernie sanders up 10. that's a place hillary was thought to have a much larger. >> he's leading there 43-33%. >> and you mentioned on the republican side of trump's 29% up on carson and 40% up 12 on carson. the republican poles we look at, it's all the outsiders. it's almost 60% in new hampshire. trump, carson and fiorina. >> the national numbers have a rather interesting subplot developing in them. this new abc news washington post just came out a few minutes ago and has an interesting subplot. >> since we are a family here, tell us about the interesting subplot. >> it is the hillary clinton has a reasonable size lead on a national level but there's a really fierce contest being waged down for second place in that pole between bernie sanders and someone whose not yet in the race. they are basically now a statistical tie for second. >> clen t >> clinton has a strong lead in carolina. there were poles in the contest states on the republican side as well. the cbs news pole of iowa caucus finds donald trump in the lead but ben carson coming closer around closer just four points behind this front runner but not in new hampshire where trump holds a huge lead reaching 40% leaving carson by 28 points. trump's lead is just about equal to the next five candidates combined. >> let's keep that up there. harold, i was up in new hampshire this weekend gong around covering it and talking to a lot of friends in the republican party trying to figure out what was going on and on the ground you still had some skepticism about donald trump and they said you win up here by knocking on doors and meeting people over and over again. i saw impressive performances. john kasich, carly fiorina. chris christie 2%. scott wacker 3%. it seems like the play book we've always followed for these early states is being thrown out the window. donald trump 40% in new hampshire. >> i think everybody's sitting around the table, there's a traditional dislike for poll ranci -- for politics and it's been thrown out the window. trump is not being changed by the other candidates on a whole host of things. i find the democratic side equally interesting. i think john's point about clinton, this has taken on a level of seriousness that's been talked about and remarked about sometime. i think the campaign now has to take this to another level as they begin to dress. >> what are you saying? the alarms need to start going on in the clinton campaign. >> for sanders to move that far ahead, that's a big number, even if it is an outlier pole. >> we've got to stop looking at this. >> we've got to put some meat on the bones and let people know. if we were sitting in a campaign where we were suppose to win and the most important presync county. >> i'm not saying the campaign needs to go into a melt down but they need to begin to look at in a different way. i think the central concern i would have would be if you're a clinton supporter, does this dr create a bigger race. joe biden makes the point bernie sanders would have a problem going on and winning president. joe biden would be the candidate. >> it's looking likely you look at the pole john was talking about and joe biden tied for bernie sanders for second place and you talked to some democrats who switched after seeing him on colbert who criticized you every day for being too tough on hillary clinton who after seeing biden on colbert said that was unreal and i'm on his side and then you have the new server story which is i guess we need to get to. >> okay. let me just finish here with these poles because there's one more important point about donald trump whose momentum doesn't show any signs of stopping and he's actually gaining on hillary clinton in the national poles. the washington post, abc news pole found trump to be the favorite of 33% of republican voters up nine points since mid-july and a 29 point increase since late may. shortly before he announced his candida candidacy. ben carson 20%, combined 53% for the top two outsiders running. everyone else in single digits. looking further down the field in tenth place, governor scott walker. looking broadly, people in politics cannot be trusted 75% of voters. >> that explaining the democratic side and that explains the republican side. that explains politics, bernie and trump. >> nearly 7 out of 10 says the u.s. political system is not functional. that's where we're at. >> you have to throw out everything you thought you knew about politics before this summer started. all the people insisting donald trump isn't for real and insi insisting ben carson is going to go away. maybe donald trump is not the nominee or become president of the united states but it's not going to end next week or next month. how big does his lead have to be before you take him seriously? >> i don't think anybody is in that place anymore to be fair. >> you should go on twitter once in a while. >> forget about twis twitter. >> journalist on twitter. >> forget about those guys. >> i'm talking about the republican party. the republican party, they were, as you know, had that same attitude three or four months ago. the republican party, the people running against donald trump, people running the campaigns against trump, they now take trump very seriously. they're somewhere between ta, i wouldn't say there's panic, but people are no longer in denial. people are looking at this saying we don't know what to do about this, but this is for real. >> the people off the record may think it's real, think it's a real challenge but they think donald trump is going to lose. they're just trying to figure out how he's going to lose and on the democratic side you got bernie sanders whose they're saying there's no way he's going to win. see who labor put in to run their political party. a guy on the extreme left and it is a bitter outright rejection. i think we're seeing this all over the world. >> look, guys, there's no doubt on the democratic side this focus has to be sharper or sharpened. the thing that fascinates me about the republicans and joe, i hear your people saying they don't think trump will win but carson is running second. you have two massive outsiders with little or no political experience. carson had a great response to carson over the weekend when trump called him low energy, he reminded everyone he's participated and led 12 hour surgeries on the brain. when you put those two together, democrats don't have anything like it. you have clinton running second and sanders running first. democrats push forward the nontraditional. sanders concerns me a bit because of the size of the lead. if you and i were running and saw the person running behind us was 20 plus points ahead we would have to step back and say what are we doing and change things along the way. >> and the two largest states. it's the two earliest most important states. >> south carolina, we have a lead here but at the same time. >> nobody in the history of modern politics has won the nomination. on t on the democratic side after losing. >> i don't think clinton did in 92. did he lose iowa too? he didn't win anything until to south. >> all right. i take that back and so does bob. >> you mentioned the e-mail server. there's no indication that the e-mail server belonging to hillary clinton was ever totally cleared. remember they kept saying they wiped the server. >> what do you mean, with a claw? what do you mean? >> no, not with a claw but i think her campaign and she said that they wiped it and there's no way any of the e-mails can be retrieved. the washington post may have a different take on this. experts told the post there's a difference in deleting the e-mails and wiping it clean. that means it may be possible to restore some of clinton's deleted e-mails. they said the server was blank when hand over to the fbi. the data on the server is not available now on any servers or devices. this as the justice department says there's no question clinton had the authority to delete e-mai e-mails. she could have done so even if working on a government server. that new washington post shows concern over the server. 51% says he -- since last summer her numbers have flipped upside down on the question of whether she is honest and trustworthy. that washington post story is a little bit, are the e-mails deleted, has the server been wiped or not? >> what the story may be suggesting is they may have been delead but the server not wiped clean. you have to work extra hard to completely destroy the content there. obviously, a lot of people are going to be curious to see if they can retrieve some of the e-mails and also some information under the fbi that they heard over the weekend, some of the fbi saying well, if they wiped the server clean they didn't do a really good job of it. it tells you they're going to have access to some of these e-mails. >> this is the question that's been the question all along. it's a little unclear. the campaign has gone out of its way to not say that's what it's about. that's why people were asking the question. did you delete the e-mails or did you do something more, why did you go through the trouble of doing something more? they're saying all we done was deletion. that means the fbi should be able to restore some of e-mail deleted and then they'll be able to at least examine what kinds of e-mails she deleted. >> remember, her campaign has danced around the question of whether or not it was deleted. her spokesman said i don't know what the term wiped means. we'll see what happens. it's interesting you talk about the justice department filing. it was the most, i ask anybody, republican or democrat alike, look at this filing. it was the most -- they said hillary was free to delete whatever she wanted to delete and we have no reason to think that she didn't do everything properly so we have no reason to conduct any investigation or look at any of these e-mails because we trust her. the entire justice department filing was we trust hillary. it is something that i hope the press core will follow up on today. it's a dangerous precedent. democrats are going to have to be dealing with if this is the new standard, when republicans are in office, when there's a request, you're going to have republicans that are going to have justice departments that are going to be able to destroy whatever they wanted to destroy and just say oh, it was personal. say look, here you had a justice department filing where they said you just trust the person in the middle of a controversy. you take what the state department has been doing to cover up with hillary clinton. i was really disappointed to see that coming out of loretta lynch's agency. >> i think there's more to come on that and we have a lot more to get to this morning. still ahead, hue's preview on this week's debate. tom cole on the the shut down and we'll be joined live from hungary with incredible imannals. first, bill with a check on the forecast. >> the pictures over the weekend told the story of a fast moving wild fire. this is about an hour north of napa. it was hot and windy, especially saturday when the fire formed. there's now about 1,500 fire personnel and four air tankers, 16 helicopters throwing everything possible at this blaze. they should get it under control but you can see almost all the damage has been done. here's the specifics on the fire. just north of the mountain area, cooler and windy. it's only 56 degrees for the temperature. winds after 54 miles an hour. the rest of the country, fall has arrived in the east but it's not going to last. we're going to warm up in a hurry. today we're jumping up into the 90s. minnesota in the 80s and that air going to head to the east. 90s for oklahoma city and dallas and as we travel to the east it's going to stay warm. 79 in d.c. and the rest of the week in the 80s. if you like the fall cool fresh air, this morning is your morning. it's going to get much warmer the rest of the week. 80s coming your way the rest of the week. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you're free to focus on growing your business. centurylink. your link to what's next. ♪ haven't been this lost in years ♪ (gps) ♪ recalculating shortest route ♪ ♪ do i really look like this? ♪ ♪ never seen this one before ♪ chicken parm you taste so good ♪ i like it. ♪ mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm this is a great place to work. not because they have yoga meetings and a juice bar. because they're getting comcast business internet. comcast business offers convenient installation appointments that work around your schedule. and it takes- done. - about an hour. get reliable internet that's up to five times faster than dsl from the phone company. call 800-501-6000 to switch today. perks are nice. but the best thing you can give your business is comcast business. comcast business. built for business. time now the take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with u.s.a. today. germany which has shoulders much of the burden of europe's crisis imposes border controls after some 16,000 migrants arrived in munic this weekend alone. this has greek authorities reporting 34 migrants babies and young children drowned after their boat capsized in the sea. internation internationally 3,000 people died trying to reach europe by sea this year. >> from the wall street journal, former union organizer jeremy corbin as their new leader. they say voter frustration with inequality and unnecessary poverty as he called it. he says his country has endured since the financial crisis. >> and we'll go to the guardian. hundreds of inmates escaped overnight after a taliban attack on an afghan prison. 355 out of the total 446 prisoners after a bomb was ignited. four police and three attackers dead. >> back to the wall street journal. number one seed -- >> federer had say chance. he had great opportunities and couldn't convert. >> that's great rifvalries. also in sports from the philadelphia inquirer nba hall of famer, mvp moses malone died sunday. he was the first player to go pro out of high school. he remains the all time leader in offensive rebounds. according to the new york times when malone was asked who he done when playing professional basketball, he made some people to be engineers and some doctors and made me a great basketball player. >> he was a great basketball player. >> first darrell dawkins and now moses malone. he was the best. >> he gave dr. jay his only championship. >> he really did. i was going to say back in that era it was the lakers, the celtics and later on you had the pistons but in between there there was, i think 82-83, there was that great 76ers team. >> moses. >> yeah, moses, dr. skrjay, i l watching them play basketball. >> i feel like he's underrated too by younger people. maybe because he's not been out as much since he retired. i don't know what it is. if you go back and look at his numbers, they're as good as anybody. he's in the hall of fame and deserves to be. i think he should be talked about more. >> when we come back, there's new reporting out about joe biden and a new time line for how long joe biden is going to wait to get into the race and what his strategy is and i'm starting to be with you, mika. i think possibility's increasing every day he might get in. i'm guessing, that's what i get paid to do, there's a new reporter on set. >> that's a tease. coming up, nothing is easy for john boehner. he's up against the white house and now presidential candidates piling on. plus the washington examiners join us for the must read of the newspapers. we'll be right back. 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uh, looks like it'll be counting cows for awhile. so maybe the same things aren't quite the same. ge software. get connected. get insights. get optimized. i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise. only depend underwear has new confidence core technology for fast absorption and the smooth, comfortable fit of fit-flex™ protection. get a coupon at depend.com who knows, one of these kids just might be the one. to clean the oceans, to start a movement, or lead a country. it may not be obvious yet, but one of these kids is going to change the world. we just need to make sure she has what she needs. welcome to windows 10. the future starts now for all of us. it is 32 past the hour. joining us is chief correspond ent. >> the politics of personal tragedy have pulled joe biden into the glare of a potential contest with hillary clinton who appears to be the direct opposite of the vice president. stage managed rehearsed, mechanical always cautious often secretive and entitled. weeks and months since his son died, joe biden has gotten up. his burden is internal, a sadness that his psmile can't hide. you don't know. >> you look at the republican field and there's so many people out there. >> still people don't take it. >> you have senators like jcane out of virginia. you got a dangerous diverse city he's been working to get his arms around for some time and you know, you can add a lot more to that mix. >> at least add joe biden. >> i think it's good for the party. we are talking about joe biden. you get some new reporting on it in and new timetable. >> first of all, i think last week a lot of people thought watching the steven colbert interview, nothing's going to happen. less than 12 hours later, biden set down with one of the most prominent democratic fundraisers in the country, robert wolf, whose the ceo, close friend of the obama's and he's committed to hillary clinton for 2016. i don't know of an instance yet prior to this where biden has set with a pub welcomely declared -- publicly declared. that's a new phase. and a consequential one. if he ran, that would be a big deal financially, symbolically, splitting with the clintons, it would to a lot of people signify obama's election. the vice president's people has an alternative scenario which is to wait another month and think about getting in the at the end of october or early november. there's disadvantages to that. you miss the first debate but there's advantages to it, it would come after hillary clinton's testimony to the b committee. >> and every day a new hillary story comes out. if you're running hillary clinton's campaign you got to be pulling your hair out because literally every day there's a new story. now it's the servers may not be wiped clean. fbi getting access to this. we don't know where the story is going to end but it's going to keep going the record sometime. >> you can tell biden is on the fence. he's not sure if he wants to do it. he's not sure his heart's in it. the numbers are tempting for him. it's making it a hard to resist scenario for biden. he wants to give it a few months and see what comes out of the hearing in october. i'm sure it will have some kind of impact on her pole numbers. either it can help her if she does a good job defending herself or who knows what information could come out. >> and you're looking at other democrats looking to get in. you wake up this morning and look at the new cbs pole beating hillary clinton by 22 percentage points. >> imagine you're joe biden and have this head touching heart pushing pole. i have too much going. what if i lose? is this the way to end my political career? your head is what's the rush? for now, why wouldn't you sit back and see where it shakes out? >> there's that but he's still very concerned about his family. not about his wife, daughter-in-law. >> grand children. >> he's concerned putting them through that and what it would do to them. there's no doubt among everybody whose talked to them recently that there's an opening, thinks this is his time and have something hillary will never have which is a clear rational why he should run. he is more, i think, everywhere around him says in the course of the last month he is much closer now to running, much close were than he was even two weeks ago, certainly three or four weeks ago, that he's getting there. it seems like every day he gets a little bit closer and more and more people who thought he wouldn't. >> now think he's going to. >> su san thought about the republican side. i saw one, maybe two trump t-shirts and you look at them and see the pole out in new hampshire and new hampshire republican leaders saying at the end of the day borders going to be returned. right now, donald trump 40%. ben carson, i saw carson supporters too. kasich at 9 and carly at 8. jeb bush down to 6. marco at 2. >> so he surprised us all by doing great in these early state poles, not just national poles. i'm curious to see what's going to happen after the debate this week, i think, i suspected, i know the moderators are working on how can he haun in an trump on substance and get him to talk about his plan instead of generalities which is what he's been doing so far. can you get through the next debate without substance? if so, how long will it last. how big a lead does he need before the r and c and others start saying you know what, we have to start looking at him as someone whose going to be gone. >> what's the dynamic? it gets this guy out of the race. i mean, the looks of another, a female candidate. insult a female moderator, one of the most popular conservative host in america. insult a war hero that was in vietnam in a prison cell in the hilton for years. what stops that rise? it's 40%. >> i think most accepted now he plays by rules we haven't seen before. whatever he says doesn't hurt him, often times it helps him. people are supporting him in poles now as a support of no confidence and when they get in that poling stage they say i don't want to impose. >> here's the thing, there's just no precedent to that. i think, put the new hampshire numbers up again. this is the most important thing. trump only rises. every single pole we've shown over the past week. it's been the past week. shows donald trump and ben carson whether it's 30, 25, 35, 25, whether it's 40-12, those two outsiders over 50% in the republican party among likely g.o.p. primary voters. >> okay. i'm going to make you all say it before we go to break. everyone's now saying i probably won't win the nomination but he's a serious player. no, no, no. what keeps him from winning the nomination? is there anything at this point? >> there is. i don't think it's going to be trump tripping up and the voters reject. >> is there any data? >> what i think can happen is another candidate can breakout and do better in the poles. >> there's no data that shows him not winning the nomination? >> no. all he needs to win the amount of delegates. >> there's nothing, guys. >> there's another candidate that can take the lead. >> people can't say it yet. >> you're trying to make some point. you got to explain to us the point you're trying to make. >> the point is we were talking earlier what stage and they're trying to cope with the con sce trump evolution and they're now saying well, he's definitely having an impact but he won't win the nomination. he's not going to become president. they can't say. >> actually so, here's the question to ask at this point on september 14th. is donald trump more likely than not to be the next g.o.p. nominee? >> according to the data we have seen now. >> yeah, look what we have in front of us. we have to say yes today. >> what would you say, john, is donald trump more likely than not to be the next republican or not? >> less likely than not. >> it's 50/50 at this point. >> what are you saying mika? answer the question. >> yes. >> i think right now more likely than not. >> it's personal feelings. >> there's certain things whether it's hillary or journalist and hillary or journalist and trump. you just pick fights with ghost. you're shadow boxing. look at that shadow over there, i'm going to chase it. it just insulted me. >> i'm just asking for intellectual honesty. still ahead. david broth is he-- david brocks here with his new book. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. (vo) wit runs on optimism.un on? it's what sparks ideas. moves the world forward. invest with those who see the world as unstoppable. who have the curiosity to look beyond the expected and the conviction to be in it for the long term. oppenheimerfunds believes that's the right way to invest... ...in this big, bold, beautiful world. today i'm suspending my campaign for the presidency of the united states. we have a tremendous field of candidates. probably the greatest group of men and women. i step aside knowing our party is in good hands. >> that's rick perry. dropping out a great guy. tough on him in 12. he was gracious after that. rick santorem told a great story about him. he told a story about bella, his child and at the end of the debate santorem went around and shook everyone's hand and goes to governor perry's podium and there's three words written down and it's pray for bella. every time he comes here, what he wants to do is show you his grand children. he's so proud of them. >> coming up, donald trump seizes the nomination in site. >> are you going to yell at him? >> no, actually, i don't think i will this time. we'll be right back. with my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go... and how to deal with my uc. to me, that was normal. until i talked to my doctor. she told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise. only depend underwear has new confidence core technology for fast absorption and the smooth, comfortable fit of fit-flex™ protection. get a coupon at depend.com the internet of things. what we're recommending as your consultants... the new consultants are here. it's not just big data, its bigger data. we're beta testing the new wearable interface... ♪ xerox believes finding the right solution shouldn't be so much work. by engineering a better way for people, process and technology to work together. work can work better. with xerox. from and the people whought you underwhelbrought youet speeds. temperamental satellite television. introducing... underwhelming internet speeds and temperamental television... in one. welcome to the moment no one's been waiting for. the fastest internet and the best tv experience is already here with x1. only from xfinity. tom brady was suspended for deflate gate scandal and reinstated by the courts. legalities aside, did tom brady cheat? >> did he cheat? i'm not sure. i think i would have to be there to see the ball and feel it and see if it was deflated or not deflated but if there was question there, then yes, i think he cheated. if there's any question to be had, i think he cheated and should be suspended for that. that's not fair. >> there you go, that's your new misamerica. miss georgia. >> she said she would fully investigate. >> that's not quiet what she said but. >> one of the judges vanessa williams. the show started with a performance from the 1984 pageant winner that was forced to give up her crown after photos were posted in penthouse magazine. >> they actually apologized to her in person on stage. >> they said you will always be miss america. very gracious. >> 30 years later but they got around to it. >> better late than never. >> that's a moment. i'm not a pageant person but that's a big moment. she's amazing. coming up at the top of the hour we're going to break down the stack of new poling this morning. new numbers to share with you. plus we'll go straight to the center of europe's refugee crisis. nbcs lester holt is live with brand new reporting on the crisis over seas. morning joe will be back in a moment. did you hear that sound? 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♪ thank you cyrus. lease an mkc for $299 a month only at your lincoln dealer. ♪ you say you're going to build a wall at the border, how do you plan to do sthat? >> since i'm you, why don't you tell me? >> how am i going to get mexico to build a wall? easy, i'll challenge them to the biggest game of jenga ever. i'll make them set up the board and then when they finish i'll say i don't want to play anymore. >> funny. that is really funny. welcome back to morning joe. john and harold are with us joining the conversation in washington. political reporter robert costa. let's get right to the new poles. >> yeah, let's go right to the new carly as well. we're really competing for the hearts of the g.o.p. debates. i just had coffee with dr. carson. i said what do you think of the debate and the moment? ? he said i'm seeking peace. he said people are looking for common sense. . i call it the outsider. >> he's talking about faith for quiet a while and needing to talk issues in the campaign. after talking about his faith for five minutes. i'm a southern baptist. i love people talking about their faith but different kinds of issues. >> trump is talking about immigration. that's not what the party establishment wants to hear. trump talking about trade. that's not at the top of the agenda. you know what ben carson was talking to me about this morning, crime. about getting communities together in urban areas. it's a different kind of pitch. >> i think it's excellent bob costa is having coffee at 6:00 in the morning. hardest working man in show business. way to go. >> let's go from the republican side to the democratic side. new numbers out for hillary clinton. >> a pole shows likely new hampshire primary voters showing bernie sanders widening his lead in that state. he's now ahead of clinton by a wopping 22 points. >> look at those numbers. willie, i understand if it's august you go it's august and now people are going it's september. he's up 22 points. i've never seen a front runner. a presumptive nominee getting hammered this badly. >> and inside iowa as well. we've seen a complete flip, not this big. the clinton campaign says that's his neighborhood. he's a vermont guy. >> iowa was the firewall. iowa was a firewall. she is leading in south carolina by prehealthy margin. there's no question anybody that the accumulation of stories about the e-mail server, about the trustworthiness, all this is taking its toll. >> two things to say to that. one is there's no doubt that bernie sanders, on the other hand, new hampshire is clinton country. new hampshire has been the state where the clintons have owned new politics for generations now. they have deep, deep roots in new hampshire. that's one thing to say. the other thing that's powerful and fascinating is if you look at these poles, it's true in national poling, if you pole everybody, people are concerned about the e-mail, they're concerned about her trustworthiness. democrats are not particularly worried about those things. it raises a deeper question. if they don't, if they think she's trustworthy and they're not worried about the e-mail servers, what is causing the lack of sbuz yachl in her campaign? why are democrats not more enthusiasti enthusiastic. you see the enthusiastic numbers. sanders has it out the wazu and they say it's not because of the e-mail server. >> the question answers itself for me. the fact is they're concerned about the e-mail. they're concerned about the server. they're not going to tell poles that question. because i mean, what, her support has dropped like a rock over the past six weeks. >> but i am only saying i think it's something deeper going on. >> there is something deeper. when you're in iowa and new hampshire what they talk about more is the recession in 2008. they want to see a more vigorous argument on the economy and the banks. that's why you see so many drifting towards sanders. i think robert is spot on. i think there's an absence of clarity and purpose around how she would address middle class woes from incomes and fining new jobs. where is the growth? the beauty and magic of the politics. i grew up in a political family and ran for office. i believe as democrats we could make tomorrow a better place. grow the country and grow the pine. she's got to return to that messa message. the clinton brand is that. she has to return to where that brand is. for scott walker to fall over the last several weeks and bernie sanders to rise, she can certainly come back. not that i dislike her, there's a concern she may not have to roberts point, the vigor and excitement. >> started out by saying the clarity of her message still sort of lacking, she's never had one. we've been asking this question for a year. >> i've heard her speaking at different events. >> hold on a second. she doesn't own it. we've been asking people what's her message and we get one two minute long answer. >> why is she running for president? this goes back to the question in 1980. why do you want to be president? >> i've heard her discuss these at fundraisers over the last six weeks. she's gotten better and better. there's more clarity. >> she's been doing this since 1978. you're telling me now around a group of millionaires in manhattan is she finding her voice. >> there are groups of people giving money to her. without a doubt. >> isn't that crazy she's been in this business this long and still hasn't found her voice. i've been giving the same speech with the same jokes for 25 years. >> you've heard the same jokes. there's a point people always joked about ronald reagan. he gave the same speech for 30 years. >> it was a good speech. >> hillary, what does she stand for? what does she believe? i think bob has just unlocked pandora's box. >> who has it? does joe biden jump in? i would say a year ago bernie sanders has the crowds elizabeth warren would be giving. >> bernie has the crowds because he has the believes. >> it's like what i talked about in great britain. this guy looks a lot like corbin. >> what's so funny? >> i was going to finish the thought and say elizabeth warren at this point a year ago today people are like she's too far left and too fringe. that was the conventional thinking. that's the same thinking people had with donald trump. she would be doing really well right now. she would be killing it. >> she's not running. and she decided not to run. i disagree with you about that. i think a lot of people are certainly at this table and other places. elizabeth warren, a lot of people thought she might run and shen te she decided not to. that is another question. i don't have an answer to that question. i think there were some people who said she was fringe or whatever people, if you look at the democratic base and passion. >> she's serious right now. >> she would have an a plausible candidate for president if she decided to run. >> you got to put points on the board for clinton. in this sense, when you listen to every single speech, where is she is hammering the mots? she's running on elective abilities. someone could win an election and may not be inspiring everyone. it's a pourerful argument especially against a g.o.p. that's having its own problems. >> to think bernie may say i've been talking about these issues my entire life and now the country has come to a place where they've seen my entire view. he's been talking about income and equality. it will be erosion of the middle class and that the banks are too big. this is who i am and this is what i live and breathe and now you're seeing it my way. >> you've got to see bernie sanders and there's not a moment, he's cranky and doesn't like the way the press treats politics and he gives the same speech over and over again but no one has any doubt about who bernie sanders is. i know who that guy is. this guy is who he is. if you watched joe biden last week on colbert, people look at that and say i know that guy, that's the real deal. at the same time you got stories in the paper about how hillary clinton's campaign has decided they need to project awe then tis si and learned that by talking to focus groups. >> and the focus groups that tell her she needs to project authenticity more, this weekend maggie had a story about how it was a focus group they took to her to say you've got to say you're sorry. that was a policy because everything is focus group driven where you look at bernie sander. he's believed it, always believed. he's been consistent while everybody else sees the word socialist as a slur bernie embraces it. hillary clinton going down to goldman and sachs and telling them they have nothing to apologize. much differently on the other side donald trump. we've said it time and time again. go back and look at his interviews in 1987 and 1988. he's saying the same thing now as he was saying then. >> in fairness to mrs. clinton, there's global management there, too much rehearsal. they've got to let her be her. i know you have concerns about what exactly does that mean? i think there's a lot there. unfortunately, the public is not seeing it. we've watched her look like a completely unrehearsed moment. i have to believe it was again when she answered the question of the young person, she talked about love. it was genuine and sincere. >> someone dying after thirst given a drop of water. >> she's got to be put in that position again to talk about the economy, infrastructure, education. >> what her problem is and here's another thing i think maggie wrote about, she has the same mistake in 16 that she had in 08. she's the one allowing herself to be over manage. she's the one that is surrounding herself with a small group of yes men. she's the one that brought in john and other people to make sure it wasn't like 2008. she's the one who is still conducting it like it was 2008. you look at mike cramerica's response and i hope you don't mind me saying this. look mika's response to the question of love and after she got off the set saying god, if we could only do that more. it's not like mika is rooting for the republicans, it's not like she doesn't want to vote for hillary, she does. right now, bob costa, there's a lot of democrats like mika that are saying i so desperately want to vote for this woman but she won't get out of her own way. >> it's true. they're not turning away from her. they want to see the passion and the vision. on the e-mails, whenever i go on the trail i ask voters are the e-mails a concern? not really. they don't want to see them go negative. the party has not turned. she's still a historic candidate. there's an enthusiasm she has to close in her own primary. >> another thing on her behalf. you think about last week when ted cruise, donald trump and clinton all gave speeches about the iran deal, she came across as a plausible commander in chief. you look at the washington post abc news pole today, the one i talked about, 61% of the people said donald trump is unqualified to be president and doesn't have the temperament to be president of the united states, for all her problems she got 56% of americans who say she's qualified to be president, has the temperament and seen as someone whose a president. >> she's thinking after president obama. that's so key to remember. there's little room for the vice president because the case for being obama's heir, the heir to the obama presidency, she's sticking close with him on iran and so many other issues and a lot of democrats respect that. >> she laid out a rational and understanding of what the iran deal should look like and what the senate and politicians in washington should do to follow up to enforce it. i've not heard from anybody in the administration. i thought she gave as powerful a speech as anyone. when big complicated things present themselves, that's when she's a more convincing candidate to be president. we're not wishing for bad things. at the same time, when big things happen, that's when she shines. >> the hunger for outsiders is on display in trump's head to head match up with hillary clinton where he trails by three points among registered voters taking 43 to clinton's 46%. among hispanic voters clinton holds a massive lead 59-39 and nine out of ten african americans say they'll go with clinton. turning now to europe, germany which has shouldered much of the burden suddenly imposed border controls and froze all train traffic from austria for 12 hours yesterday after 16,000 migrants arrived in munic this weekend alone. joining us from hungary, lester holt. lester. >> reporter: mika, it's a picture that never ceases to touch you. trst a family, small children pushing a stroller. how many miles, how many kilometers have they pushed that stroller? it's a story we've seen day in and day out. thousands, record numbers have made it across into hungary where we are since the weekend. 6,000 yesterday. they're trying to get here before hungary closes their border. every indication is going to happen by the end of the night. troops there for the first time making some sort of preparation. at the same time late yesterday germany said they're going to holt train service from austria into germany. people feeling squeezed and wondering if they're going to end up in a virtual no man's land. >> the crowd of migrants swelled at vienna's train station sunday after rail service from aus troo i can't to germany was halted. germany's decision came after migrants continue to come by sea. they were lucky their dinghy sank so close to shore. 34 others died after another sinking yesterday. meantime, migrants pour into hungary. this time for the first time hungary troops started building a razor wire fence. sunday, this little girl collapsing in sickness had to be carried across by a volunteer. this afghan teenager was separated from his family during the night. he has no money, only two eggs. two miles away an -- police are there to take the migrants to government detention camps for processing. for rosa, the alternative, returning his son to syria is too much to bear. hungary, on the other side of the fence post. the crack down largely depends on how quickly they can complete this border fence. once they do that, this may be the end of the road. >> what happens once this fence is completed? >> they're not going to stop because they reach a fence like this. they will find another way into europe. >> a way to a continent and its breaking point. a place many see as the promise land. >> more signs that the closing of the border is immeant. they have been dismantling the camp created. relief agencies come in and brought in doctors and things people needed. food and water, not the government. these tents where a lot of people would spend st. night. now what's happening is they're immediately put on buses and taken to the train station where they're then moved closer to the border. european ministers meeting today to decide about quotas. there's a lot of resistance here in eastern europe, mika. we'll continue to watch this unfold. >> heyless lester, joe here. europe is overwhelmed, germany overwhelmed. what happens when the border closes? >> reporter: those folks getting in now can at least no longer have to be processed and fingerprinted which is what a lot of them are concerned about. most of them want to go to western europe, the more prosperous countries. keep in mind, joe, not all of these people were qualified as refugees. they'll be seeking asylum. in some cases their story may not hold water. this could be a two way trip for a lot of these people despite the hardships. >> thank you so much, we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you as well. still ahead on morning joe, it's not just house conservatives giving the g.o.p. leadership an ear full, now candidates are getting their own party from the republican leadership. congressman with us plus his new book warns to join the government. david brock joins the table next on morning joe. awe believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights. active management can take calculated risks. active management can seek to outperform. because active investment management isn't reactive. it's active. that's the power of active management. 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(siri voice) ok, jack's boutique is nearby. alright, i've got another friend and his name is bryan adams. ok. this isn't going to work again. ♪"please forgive me, i know not what i do..."♪ introducing app-connect. the things you love on your phone, available on 11 volkswagen models. the founder of the media watchdog media matters as well as democratic super path correct the record, david brock author of the new book. hillary in a -- claims the new york times as a liberal newspaper body for the anti -- by the way, willie. i love this. it kind of sneaks up on you. the massive elephant crushing all the good people in washington. you say that the new york times deserves a special place in held and i say you're sounding a lot more like the conservative of the mid-80s that you were. conservatives have had their complaints for years. i think if you look at the evidence, three times in the last six months, the times carried on the front page allegations of criminal misconduct by hillary clinton saying she's the subject when she wasn't and she was the subject of that investigation charging she auctioned off -- and the original e-mail story where they said she broke federal law. later, they didn't use a statement u.s. spokesman given them. i think, you know, once might be a mistake, twice a coincidence and three times a pattern. >> there's a conspiracy. i wouldn't call it a conspiracy but behind the pattern it's working with republican investigators on capitol hill. going back six months, the investigation is running back to steam and then it morphed into an investigation on the e-mails and clearly, what they're doing is running on operation with taxpayer money and used the new york times. >> but the new york -- to what end though? the new york times doesn't want to help elect ted cruise or donald trump. >> i've talked in the book about a couple of actual players here. in journalism, a lot of the careers and opportunities, she's a big target. there's ratings involved and selling newspapers involved. >> do you think it's more profit driven, headline driven? >> absolutely. they rush these things in that don't meet their standards. it's not just me saying this. if you read their own public editor, she said it's troubling, faulting, she had to get the executive editor to agree to be fair. >> on this concept, assuming all of it is completely true, what is it about her that draws this that is causing this, do you think? i'm not saying she's causing it, i'm just wondering, where does it come from? >> from the times. >> from the times and the whole target. >> why is hillary always a target? look, i think you go back to when they first came on the national scene in 1991, 1992, i think they were uniquely threatening to a lot of people. i trace this history, they got sold a bad story called white water in 1992 and stuck with it for years and trying to prove out the notion that the clintons are corrupt. what's normal behavior by any other poll tig is painted as wrong and corrupt when it's the clintons. look, she's a huge target. no question about that. she's the front runner. i think there's a history there unfortunately. >> david, do you think this goes back to 2008? because a lot of people think that the press, we're rooting for barack obama to become president of the united states? >> i don't think there's so many examples of the coverage in 08 'with hillary clinton. generally, i agree that the press scrutinized her and there's trouble there. >> there was cheer leading considering most people there. this network had obama. >> you better be careful. >> i don't need to be careful. 2008 was shameful. i did always say this, i said republicans, i've always complained about slanded media bias. i've never seen slanted media bias as bad as the nomination fight in 2008 against hillary clinton. it was laughable. >> no question about that. so what does hillary clinton do to bring this on herself? could it be the clintons perhaps face more scrutiny because they believe they can play by rules others don't. >> i don't like blaming the v k victim here. >> i don't think they're victims. >> i do in some sense. these fake scandals are created and they have some effect. we've been talking about the effect before it came on the show. >> all the scandals including the clinton's fake scandals. >> i've taken you through each one in the book. i dealt with the ones in the 90s. >> nothing's been found. these are nothing. >> okay. >> i want to -- >> go first. >> women talking about the poling this morning. itching a little bit. how do you account for the rise that bernie sanders is saying? we were talking about ideas and it's a clarity and purpose around the economic message. that's not coming out. is that part of what's happening? >> it may be that it's not breaking through. we've had six months of nothing but e-mail, e-mail, e-mail the last time, she's out there and if you talk to reporters covering her out in the field she's talking act a subsequent agenda and when it gets in the debate season i think she'll do well. i would say yeah, something's not breaking through, the substance isn't breaking through. that's because there's been a relentless campaign of distortion that's gone on for six months. i don't think hillary clinton brought that on herself. >> i try to predetective a lot. six months ago i wouldn't have thought we would be here. >> it's not a republican play book. that's the thing. you say it's a nothing. you attack the fbi and new york times. do you think the fbi is on a witch hunt against hillary clinton? she comes out and says things that aren't true. she says gee, i'm not breaking any rules. you talk to the obama administration. we can agree to disagree. we did. hold on a second. when you're disagreeing with that, understand you're also disagreeing with people in the obama administration that put the regulations out there that tell us she break the rules. so you can, you're entitled to whatever you want to believe but you are in a corner by yourself when you believe that. >> the department of justin did a legal filing wednesday. >> i'm on the corner. they looked at us and said two things. one, it was entirely appropriate that every government employee makes the decision themselves about what's a work related e-mail and personal e-mail they said it was inprotappropriate. >> if i delete an e-mail and i work for the state department, i delete that e-mail. if the state department has to investigate my actions, they can go back and get access to that deleted e-mail. hillary clinton's position, she sets up her own server the day she starts office and perhaps its wiped clean and perhaps it's not wiped clean. that makes it entirely different. i think together with hillary's interview she said she's sorry for her role in this, she takes responsibility and this legal filing, this thing goes away. >> you're fine then if deck cheney is appointed by jeb busch and secretary of war decides he's going to have his server and then before the investigators become he just destroys it. is that fine? >> it destroys personal e-mail. it destroys the server. you'll never be able to know what he decided was personal and what had to do with war. >> that's the employee. every employee in the government has a decision to make to classify work related or personal. >> if they follow the 2009 regulation and contain it because she didn't in the state department, that's a matter of fact. that's not, you're not even entitled to that opinion. >> there was no real time archiving requirement in the 2009 law. >> they were suppose to not in 2009. how did they end up there. will she turn them over? >> she turned them over a couple of months ago. >> 90% of them were there all along. she communicated with people. 90% were there overall. >> 90% of them were not there alone. we don't know what e-mails she sent out and what e-mails she sent to foreign leaders and the e-mails in and out. again though, the regulation is clear and they're suppose to back it up and suppose to back it up by having them at the server. >> she didn't do that. >> but not in real time. that's the new twist. >> they change the law later to say you have 20 days. that law's not in effect. it was in effect though. >> in 2009. >> you guys just proved why this book is fascinating. it is called killing the messeng messenger. this is it right here. we don't really i'm not even i hear you. >> you know what. >> i'm not ganging up on david brock. >> it's your day, it's your book. we'll leave it there because they're screaming in our ear we can't go on for 30 minutes i would love to go on. >> good luck. >> preeappreciate it. >> coming up, mitt romney and donald trump. here's a hint. it's not their choice of head wear. we'll be right back. it's ford suv season. now just sign & go. with zero down... zero due at signing... and zero first month's payment... hassle free. choose from ford escape, edge, explorer and expedition. every suv. ford makes it easier for you to be unstoppable, during suv season. now get a ford escape with zero down, zero due at signing and zero first month's payment, during ford's suv sign & go event. only at your local ford dealer. they come into this iworld ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. this is a great place to work. not because they have yoga meetings and a juice bar. because they're getting comcast business internet. comcast business offers convenient installation appointments that work around your schedule. and it takes- done. - about an hour. get reliable internet that's up to five times faster than dsl from the phone company. call 800-501-6000 to switch today. perks are nice. but the best thing you can give your business is comcast business. comcast business. built for business. s hillary clinton by 20% in 2008. >> mitt room knee's poles are similar to donald trump's margins against hillary clinton. >> speaking of hillary clinton, i've got to say. >> i think he's nice and polite when he comes on the show but he's one of the few that leads me speechless. >> come on. this is a fascinating point of view. up next, it hasn't gone so well for them this the past. why are house republicans threatening another shut down? the party needs to focus on 2016 instead and he joins us next to explain. keep it right here on morning joe. thanks for calling angie's list. how may i help you? i heard i could call angie's list if i needed work done around my house at a fair price. you heard right, just tell us what you need done and we'll find a top rated provider to take care of it. so i could get a faulty light switch fixed? yup! or have a guy refinish my floors? absolutely! or send someone out to groom my pookie? pookie's what you call your? my dog. yes, we can do that. real help from real people. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. quicker smarter earlier fresher harder and yeah, even on sundays. if that's not what you think of when you think of the united states postal service, watch us deliver. have my stomach feeling all knotted up. i've tried laxatives... but my symptoms keep returning. my constipation feels like a pile of bricks... that keeps coming back. linzess can help. once-daily linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation. linzess is thought to help calm pain-sensing nerves and accelerate bowel movements. linzess helps you proactively manage your symptoms. do not give linzess to children under 6 and it should not be given to children 6 to 17. it may harm them. don't take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include, gas, stomach-area pain and swelling. bottom line, ask your doctor about linzess today. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. okay, we have been role playing here. john has been playing donald trump. >> and putting harold in his place. >> no, actually you would be putting yourself in jail. >> we're not going to say what was said during the breaks. you better just clean yourself up. >> very glad. >> i took care of harold. >> i don't think so. joining us now, i'm moving on. i'm going to help you out. joining us now from capitol hill, tom cole. >> we were just talking about what hillary clinton could do to win. looks like some of you are ahead of us. they're doing it. a government shut down. >> thank you. >> just what the doctor ordered. >> it's the most important thing that happens in the presidential race happens on capitol hill. shutting down the government is a good way to make sure no republican is going to win the presidency in 2016. >> we've done this before. it did not work out well. the republican approval ratings collapsed and actually tea partiers that took it as a sign of victory after 2014 didn't look at the nominees because all the republican nominees were more main stream after that little exercise. >> well, and people forget about the role out of obama care. that's what saved republicans. our did i saeser was follow by a bigger disaster. i wouldn't count on being that lucky twice. >> lets talk about john boehner. we've heard several reports speaker boehner is in trouble and a lot of conservatives are starting to say on the hill if he backs down in a planned parent hood fight, that will be the last straw. what can you tell us? >> these really aren't fights over whose most conservative. he had the eighth most conservative vote. this is a debate over tactics and you got people who want to pursue tactics. i'm a hundred percent pro life and i fund it in my labor h bill which is where the money goes to help the services that they then turn around and give to plan perry. we took the money out in the bill and passed it through appropriate yagss committee long before in particular fight ch. shutting down the government is a proved failing strategy. why in the world would you repeat that? >> majority leader has essentially taken your point of view. he says i don't like planned parent hood either. the only way to get that done is to have a president with a different point of view. is there a chance the government is shut down or is this a small few loud voices? >> i think it's a few loud voices. i think people like this can create opportunity from the democra democrats. these folks willing to shut down the government, most of them looking for a continuing resolution anyway, i think they're adopting the wrong tacti tactics. i agree with the end they're trying to reach but you get a president that appoints a secretary of health and human services that's pro life and putting people ministering medicaid pro life, you end the problem. short of that is difficult for congress by it to eliminate the grant making authority of the department of health and human services. >> toii want to come back to speaker boehner. you made a point about this being about tactics. he did face not that long ago his speak eship and it seems that could recur and be larger because some of the issues on the table. if you were him, what would you be doing right now to maintain your hold on the speakership? >> i think he's doing that. i think she's showing he's flexible. he made some changes on iranian strategy last week. he's exceptionally popular amongst rank and file members. any time he's had a vote he's won it overwhelmingly. i think he'll do that again. frankly, he tries to keep his conference together. i would have frankly had this vote on the meadows residenolut if i had my way in the summer. if they're serious about bringing it up, file a solution. most of these folks have backed off of doing that. >> what are your colleagues who lock at the facts and see when the government's shut down in the past the republicans have been blamed and it's hurt them. how do you react to that when you say to them this is not going to defund planned parent hood? what do they say when you make the case you've made this morning? >> i would say well over 200 of them agree. most folks know what we did in october 2013 was a failure. it was a mistake. it was overreach. we do something like that again then we got a couple of opportunities. you got to get a continuing resolution by the end of this o month and a negotiation. those are the two things we need to focus on. if we fail on either of those objections we materially undermine or chances of rwinnin the white house in 2016 no matter who our nominee is. >> new poles out this morning. donald trump up 30 points in new hampshire. winning south carolina and iowa. have you come to terms with the idea donald trump could be your party's nominee for president? >> i don't worry about who the nominee is. i have a lot of confidence in republican primary voters. i've never lost a primary. i think in the end they pick democrats. we'll let this thing play out. at the end to go and at the end of the day, they'll make a good choice, they always do. >> and you'll be good if the choice is donald trump? >> we'll wait to see what that choice is but we'll see what the choice is. >> that's a dodge. >> tom cole, thank you so much. >> good luck. good luck on that hill. >> hey, boomer sooner. >> did you see saturday night? and dallas last night. go cowboys. >> big win against the volunteers. >> terrible win. terrible win. >> thank you. >> still ahead, donald trump called him a third rate radio announcer here on our show last week. >> that's not nice. >> so will things be awkward when hugh hewitt moderates this upcoming debate? we'll talk about that. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? 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>> it was good, it was good. >> stayed and watched some of the u.s. open. it rained. i'm glad i wasn't there. >> djokovic won. >> it will be the last time the semifinals suffer this. >> we new yorkers, we're not stupid. you rain out our finals five, six years in a row and we'll build a roof. >> germany is now imposing border controls, hungary is having problems building a wall. and these desperate people, you don't have to look far as a reporter covering the story, to find a tragic story, a family suffering trying to find a safe place to live. >> nfl season started yesterday. bill roden. a quick reminder of how violent the sport really is. in week one of the nfl season, the dark cloud of violence has been a fixer of league descended on metlife stadium as if it had been waiting for just that moments. it it took all of 14 minutes for the first concussion to occur, and three and a half quarters for a player to be carted off the field motionless as teammates, opponents, fans and many thousands of tv viewers looked on. it's the violence that the nfl pedals and packages brilliantly and without shame and it was on full display. the violence goes to another level in the nfl. and it's just -- it's every week. happens of week. >> they're going to have to really -- >> that was just in one game. >> that was just in one game. >> not going away. >> and the players just keep getting bigger and faster and, we've talked about it before, willie. it's like you're in like ten car accidents a game. >> when you're a linebacker you're 250 who can run a 4.5-40. >> let's get to the polls. troubling numbers for hillary clinton out of iowa and new hampshire. a poll of likely primary voters shows bernie sanders widening his lead in that state. he's now ahead of clinton by 22 points. >> let's stop right there. john heilemann, two months ago nobody would have imagined bernie was ahead. now 52% to 30% over hillary clinton. what's happening? >> i mean -- >> no, for a change to be -- last week we had polls of her losing 10 points in almost every poll. this is 22 points. >> the scale of sanders' surge and of clinton's decline every time we see a new poll we're surprised by the numbers, right? this has been, though, now the most significant thing about it has been on this constant trajectory now for months. they're both traveling on straight lines. she's down and to the right and he's up and to the right and so you see if each one of you think, wow, it couldn't get worse than that and then a week later or two weeks later, it worse than that. >> 22 points in new hampshire. we now have two front-runners in the two main states where everybody's campaigning that the establishment is saying can never win. but bernie sanders winning by 22 points. we're going to show you an iowa poll that's equally impressive and trump winning in all of his polls. who are these experts that are -- i mean, they may not have it right. if bernie's up by 22 points here and up in iowa, he's got a shot. >> 22 there you mentioned, bernie sanders up 10 in iowa, a place where hillary was thought to have a much larger lead. >> he's leading there 43% to 33%. >> yup. you mentioned on the republican side trump's at 29%, up 4 on ben carson, at 40% up 12 on carson in new hampshire. again, the republican polls that we look at, it's all the outsiders. it's almost 60% if you look in new hampshire. you put trump, carson and fiorina. >> clinton is ahead of sanders by 20 points in south carolina. >> the cbs news poll of likely iowa caucus goers finds donald trump in the lead. but ben carson coming closer and closer, just 4 points behind the front-runner, but not in new hampshire where trump holds a huge lead, trump's lead is about equalled by 25% combined. >> i was up in new hampshire, talking to a lot of friends in the republican party, trying to figure out what was going on. and on the ground, on the ground you still had some skepticism about donald trump. they say you win up here by knocking on doors, by meeting people over and offer again. i saw some really impressive performances, john kasich, carly fiorina. and marco rubio sitting at 2%, chris christie 2%, scott walker 2%, scott walker at 2% in the national poll. it seems like the old playbook we've always followed is gone out the window. donald trump 40% in new hampshire! >> there's dislike for traditional politics that's being thrown out the window and trump is benefiting in big part because he'll say anything, he'll do anything and often times he's not being challenged on some of the other candidates on a whole host of things which have been raised on this show. i find the democratic side now equally interesting. for sanders to move that far ahead -- >> isn't that crazy? >> you can call it it an outlier poll but it's a big number, even if it is -- >> we got to put some meat on the bones and let people know if we were sitting in a campaign where we were supposed to win and the most important precinct, county or state if you're running for president, if we were losing by 22 percentage points, i mean, we'd all be in full scale panic. >> i'm not saying the campaign ought to go into some kind of meltdown but they have to look at this in a different way. i think that the sen tram concern that i would have would be this would have your clinton supporter would be does this create a big are path for joe biden to get in the race? joe biden makes the point that bernie sanders would have a hard time winning the nomination and going on to be president, joe biden would be a more viable candidate. >> it's looking more and more likely, mika. you talked to some hillary clinton democrats who switched after seeing him on colbert, a guy who criticized you for being too tough on hillary clinton who after saying biden on colbert who said i'm on his side and then you have the new server story, which i guess we need to get to. >> anecdotal. >> there's one more important point about donald trump, whose momentum doesn't show any signs of stopping and he's actually gaining on hillary clinton in the national polls according to the latest polling out this morning. "the washington post"/abc news poll found trump to be the favorite at 33%, dr. ben carson at 20%, a top 53% by the top two candidates. and looking further down and looking broadly, three quarters of voters say voters cannot be trusted. >> that explains the democratic side, that explains the republican side. that explain politics, that explains bernie, that explains trump. >> nearly 70% say the u.s. political system is not functional. that is where we're at. >> you just have to throw out everything you thought you knew about politics before this summer started. all the people were still insisting donald trump isn't for real, all the people insisting ben carson is going to go away at some point, this year is different. maybe donald trump's not the nominee, maybe he doesn't become president of the united states but it's not going to end next week or next month. how big does his lead have to be before you take him seriously? 30 points in new hampshire? >> but i don't think anybody is in that place anymore. to be fair. >> you should go on twitter once in a while. >> forget about twitter. >> journalists. >> well, forget about those guys. >> you know how i feel about those people. i'm talking about the republican pear. the republican party as you know had that same attitude three or four months ago. the republican party right now, the people running against donald trump, running campaigns against dronald trump, the establishment of the republican party, they now take donald trump seriously. i wouldn't say there's panic but people are no longer in denial about the donald trump thing. people are now looking at this going, okay, we don't know what to do about this but this is for real. >> you mentioned the e-mail server. there's no indication that the e-mail server belonging to hillary clinton was ever totally cleared. remember they kept saying they wiped the server. >> what do you mean, with a cloth? i don't understand what you mean? with a cloth? >> no, not with a cloth. her campaign said wiped it and there's no way e-mails can be retrieved. the company that maintained the server, experts told "the washington post" there's a difference between simply deleting e-mails and wiping it clean. that means it may be be be possible to restore some of clinton's deleted e-mails. in august a lawyer for the company told the paper the server was blanc whk when hande over to the fbi, saying that data was not available on servers on platte river network's control. they added she appropriately could have done so even if she was working on a government server. a majority of people said they don't think her e-mail is a legitimate issue for the presidential campaign. but since last summer, her numbers have flipped upside down on whether she was honest on that question. that story, has the server been wiped? >> they may have been deleted but the server has not been wiped clean. you have to work extra hard to completely destroy the content there. so obviously, john heilemann, a lot of people are going fob curious to see whether they can retrieve some of these e-mails. and also some information out of the fbi that they heard over the weekend somebody at the fbi saying, well, if they wiped the server clean, they didn't do a really good job of it. the suggestion that they're going to have access to some of these e-mails. >> this is ultimately the question that's been the question all along and it's a little unclear. the campaign has kind of gone out of its way to not say -- that's what the cloth joke was about. they tried to avoid using that word wiped. that's why people are asking the question, did you merely delete the e-mails or did you do something more? if you did something more, why did you go to the trouble? so now the platte river folks are saying, well, no, they were deleted. >> her campaign has sort of danced around the question whether or not it was deleted. her spokesman said i don't know what the term wiped means. i don't know that they've explicitly said it was wiped. >> we'll see what happens. you talk about this justice department filing. it was the most obsequious filing i've ever seen. we have no reason to think that she didn't do everything properly so we have no reason to conduct any investigation or look at any of these e-mails because we trust her. the entire justice department filing was we trust hillary. it is something that i hope the press corps will follow up on today. it's -- it is a dangerous precedent. democrats are going to have to be dealing with if this is the new standard when republicans are in office, when there's a foia request, you're going to have republicans that are going to have justice departments that are going to be able to destroy whatever they want to destroy and just say, oh, it was personal. well, look, here you had a justice department filing where they said you just trust the person that's in the middle of a controversy. you take what the state department's been doing to cover up for hillary clinton and now what the justice department appears like they're going to be doing, i was really disappointed to see that coming outs of loretta lynch's agency, really disappointing. the press should have a lot of really tough questions. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we'll see what's happening over at cnbc. but first, he's getting ready to grill the republican candidates for president in the house that reagan built. hugh hewitt will join us. >> uh-oh, does donald trump know he's going to be there? >> i don't know. >> here's bill with a check on the forecast. bill. >> over the weekend, a big story out of california was the valley fire. this was a fast moving blaze, it was very dry, it was very hot, it formed on saturday and it rapidly spread. it's located just north of the napa area, 400 homes were destroyed, four injuries, one unconfirmed fatality, now they have crews and air tankers dropping everything on that blaze. the weather will cooperate and get better for that fire, too. the on other story out there across the board is it tens to warm up across the nation. we are watching temperatures at about 90 degrees in the middle of the nation and we're going to continue to get even warmer than that in the days ahead. it's a cool, crisp morning in d.c., enjoy it, the windows are open and the a.c. is off. we'll continue to watch that information and as we get more pictures on the valley fire, we'll let you know. more "morning joe" when we come back. 's how you stay connected. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you get an industry leading broadband network and cloud and hosting services. centurylink. your link to what's next. how much prot18%?does your dog food have? 20? nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna has 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. it's more than it's multi-layered security and flexibility. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions. including cloud and hosting services - all from a trusted it partner. centurylink. your link to what's next. woman: when a student understands a concept for the first time. man: when the students get it. man: their eyes get big, the lightbulb pops on. woman: "i got it, i think i got it!" they light up. it's like magic. woman: this is not just a job. woman: the rewards i get are... priceless. man: we help kids grow, and that's part of the rush of teaching. narrator: the california teachers association. educators who know quality public schools make a better california for all of us. educators who know quality public schools i'm a senior field technician for pg&e here in san jose. pg&e is using new technology to improve our system, replacing pipelines throughout the city of san jose, to provide safe and reliable services. raising a family here in the city of san jose has been a wonderful experience. my oldest son now works for pg&e. when i do get a chance, an opportunity to work with him, it's always a pleasure. i love my job and i care about the work i do. i know how hard our crews work for our customers. i want them to know that they do have a safe and reliable system. together, we're building a better california. . all right. time now to take a look at the "morning papers." we'll start with "usa today" today. germany, which has shouldered much of the burden of the migrant crisis suddenly imposed border controls and froze all trains after some 16,000 migrants arrived in munich alone. 34 migrants including babies and young children drown after their boat capsized. international monitoring organizations say nearly 3,000 people have died trying to reach europe by sea this year. unbelievable images. >> from the wall street journal, a shocking upset, britain on session labor party elected jeremy corbyn as the new labor party leader. >> and we'll go to "the guardian." hundreds of inmates have escaped overnight after a taliban attack on an afghan prison. they fled after a suicide bomber detonated a device near the main great leaving four police and three attackers dead. >> novak djokovic coming out on top, defeating federer. it's his third major championship of the year and tenth grand slam trophy after all. the players are now tied at 21 wins apiece. >> federer had a chance. he really did. he had some great opportunities in the third set. he just couldn't convert. >> that's a great rivalry. federer farther along in his career. djokovic still rising. >> and also nba hall of famer, three-time league mvp the great moses malone died. first the third to go pro right out of high school. he's the offensive leader in rebounds. asked what he would have done had he not played professional basketball? he said "hard to say, the lord made some people to be engineers, some to be doctors, he made me to be a great basketball player." he was 60 years old. >> first darrell dawkins, now moses malone. brutal. >> they asked him house of representatives are you going to win the championship? he said four, four, four. >> he gave dr. jay his only championship. >> back in that era, it was always the lakers and it was the celtics and then later on you had the pistons but in between there there was i think '82, '83, there was that great 76ers team -- >> with moses. >> with moses and dr. jay. i loved watching them play basketball. >> i feel like he's underrated by younger people. maybe because he hasn't been out there as much since he retired, maybe because he's a soft spoken guy. obviously he's in the hall of fame and deserves to be but i think he ought to be talked about more as the very best. >> coming up, she's taking her show on the road. >> yes, carole king takes us behind the scene. >> coming hugh hewitt will join us next on "morning joe." ♪ anywhere that you tell me to, if you need me to be with you ♪ no? 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(gasp) shark diving! xerox personalized employee portals help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing? cliff jumping! human resources can work better. with xerox. woman: when a student understands a concept for the first time. man: when the students get it. man: their eyes get big, the lightbulb pops on. woman: "i got it, i think i got it!" they light up. it's like magic. woman: this is not just a job. woman: the rewards i get are... priceless. man: we help kids grow, and that's part of the rush of teaching. narrator: the california teachers association. educators who know quality public schools make a better california for all of us. that doesn't bother you at all? >> no, it doesn't bother me because i recognize that i have plenty of energy. you know, operating on people for 10, 12, sometimes greater than 20 hours at a time, making critical decisions after many hours of intense work, having unexpected situations come up. >> but dr. carson -- >> you don't have to be loud to be energetic. >> that was ben carson responding to donald trump's allegation that he lacks energy. and a guy who is called a third-rate analyst, hugh hewitt. how are you going to prepare for this debate and how do you stop yourself from being the west coast answer to megyn kelly? >> well, you know, i've been called much worse. i've had three teen-agers who i've had turned the card on to, joe, so it's not a big deal. we spent some time yesterday walking through question sets with dana and jake. i think we're very well prepared. it's all about the candidates, not about the panelists. and i tell everyone, whether it was "the guardian" last week or the politico on friday, hopefully it has everything to do with exchanging between candidates. i'm pretty sure that's how you would want it run as well. >> no doubt about it. i hate it when panelists become part of the debate. how do you stop, though, especially after donald trump attacking you after your last radio interview? >> i talked to donald since then. i'm fine. i'm just used to it. i'm sure mika and joe have had it happen as well where people are unhappy with an interview. he legitimately misunderstood. a lot of people overamplify the critici criticism. he's got ten other people on that stage. he's ahead of them right now significantly. i think he's going to focus on them, not jake, dana or me. >> interesting. on your radio show, though, you often give your take. so what is your take on his pretty commanding lead in some of the latest polling? >> i think the "rolling stone" article, which got most of the attention on the carly fiorina comment is fascinating. in it the writer summarizes donald's appeal, "i'm not one of them." it does tell you why donald trump and ben carson are one and two. they have nothing to do, zero, with the political class that loves this show. right now this show is being watched by the political elite. i'm at the hoover institution this morning for a media round table with people who are on your show. trump and carson have no political affection for democrats or republicans who have been reasoning things for the last 40 shows. >> as the co host of that show loved by the politically elite, we find that new attitude ghastly. >> how do you figure out how to ask these guys in a pointed way but not seem like you're trying to trip them up. >> the only bump was with donald trump and that's because it was my fault. i framed the question wrong. i said you're familiar with the general and the kurds force. i should have said the general runs the army in iran. i think it's important never to play jeopardy with names and i never do. i always give the predicate. and then if someone is called out, for example, jeb bush in february, i asked him about the ohio submarine and the replacement, the key part that's being replaced right now, jeb just said i don't know, i'll get back to you. that's perfectly acceptable. i've answered every within of the candidate, they have all upped their game. i think they're spending a lot more time on foreign affairs. putin is pushing the envelope this morning in syria givagain. i think they're all going to be ready for stuff in that area. >> along those lines, we've got two people, though, that are in first and second place and most polls have offver 50% of republican voters who never served a day in office and didn't spin their lives, like you and me, we grew up reading newspapers, following politics and probably can talk our way around most issues that would ever come up in presidential debate. that's just not the case with ben carson. ben carson did what he was supposed to do for 40, 50 years in his life, he obsessed on saving lives. don't you have to! donald trump and ben carson questions so people like me in the republican party who want to know if they can vote for these guys have some sort of understand being that they know what they're getting into if they're elected president. >> of course. and tough questions for everyone matters a lot on friday. i talked to dr. carson for the first hour of my show, he pointed out not has he only been a very successful pediatric neurosurgeon but he's served on the boards of many major international corporations, it requires you know a lot about securities law and national and international trade. >> do you have level of comfort that ben carson is well versed on the issues? >> he is not marco rubio because he hasn't had access to an information facility. he's not hillary clinton thank god because he hasn't deleted e-mails protected by law but he's traveled extensively around the world, as has donald trump. these people are familiar with complicated transactions involving international players. have they met president g, i don't know. have they sat down with putin? i don't know. carly fiorina has. they have plenty of time once they get their national briefings. what i think people will be looking for on wednesday night when the predebate and first and second debate is who is comfo comfortable with answering complex situations. you look at 4 million syrians moving. what do you do with them? >> are you comfortable with taking off your cap as moderator and putting on your pundit cap and asking you about candidates who have really surprised me? >> absolutely. >> marco rubio, he's down at 2%, 3% in a will the of these polls that just came out of the weekend and here he's at 2% in the latest cbs poll in new hampshire, doesn't do much bett better in iowa. what's going on with marco rubio, as a guy on the cover of time magazine as the future now at 2%? >> kasich has come up a little bit. this is all preseason kind of hot stove league stuff. yesterday the jets beat the browns 35-10. i'm here to tell you the jets are not any good, the browns are just awful. you can't tell anything from the first game. you have to wait to see how they perform as they get closer to iowa. the united states tends to take the falloff from politics. they like to focus on football, family and the holidays and they zoom back in in january. i think you'll find in january walker, rubio and kasich are three people down in the polls right now and not yet showing up on a lot of national registers, they'll be in thick of the hunt come january. >> what about carly fiorina. she's jumping up in new hampshire. >> she does not surprise me. i've interviewed her maybe 40 times. sheep used to do quarterly earning calls. earning call analysts are the nastiest people in the world. they dig in your release, your s.e.c. filings and ask you why the delivery chain in brazil isn't working. so she's been handling aggressive, tough questioning from very hard bitten business journalists that make political journalists look like aaa. i'm not surprised she's done well in a very, very pressurized situation and probably sparks will fly on wednesday night between carly fiorina and donald trump, though there are a couple of people standing between them on the stage. i was at the podium yesterday, awfully complicated stage but having air force i behind it makes it look terrific. >> hugh hewitt, thank you. best of luck. enjoy yourself wednesday night. >> i will. >> kim davis is back on the job but that doesn't mean she's issuing marriage licenses against. the latest on the saga from kentucky. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ to the couple who set aside the whole day to sell their old car and buy a new one... oops. nana's got the kids til 9... but it's only 2. guess you'll just have to see a movie... ...then get some dinner. what a pity. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. so, i tried depend last weekend. it really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise. and i tried a baking class. one weekend can make all the difference. only depend underwear has new confidence core technology for fast absorption and the smooth, comfortable fit of fit-flex™ protection. take your weekend on with a coupon at depend.com i could get used to this. now you can, with the luxuriously transformed 2016 lexus es and es hybrid. ♪ awe believe active management can protect capital long term. active management can tap global insights. active management can take calculated risks. active management can seek to outperform. because active investment management isn't reactive. it's active. that's the power of active management. just in this morning, kim davis, the county clerk in kentucky who spent five nights in jail for refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses is back at work flanked by police. she broke down in tears as she told the media she faced an impossible choice, choose her conscience or her freedom. >> i just want to serve my neighbors quietly without violating my conscience. and so this morning i am forced to fashion a remedy that reconciles my conscience with judge benning's orders. effective immediately and until an accommodation is provided by those with the authority to provide it, any marriage issued by my office will not be issued or authorized by me. >> davis says she will not stop her deputies from issuing licenses but they will not have the authority of the county clerk. the governor's office has previously said the licenses would be valid. lawyers for the 49-year-old c k clerk filed a motion asking she be allowed to continue banning licenses for her entire office until the lawsuit against her is is settled. >> brian sullivan, a lot of anticipation with the fed. what's the outlook this morning? >> things a bit quiet. of course it is rashashana. the current uaw contract expires tonight. health care a big issue, and the uaw has targeted fiat-chrysler as the one firm to work with to great contract. you got the uaw, the federal reserve and, by the way, stephen colbert will have an interesting guest from a business perspective. he had elan musk last week. he's got tim cook apparently going to appear on colbert, maybe to talk about new products. did you see the eight-page pullout in the "new york times" for the new steve jobs movie? i have no idea what that would have cost bu that is a heck of an advertisement for a movie. >> that is a heck of an advertisement and i've heard it's a pretty good movie. >> we saw that wall street is shrugging off china's lows. are we getting to a point where the flatlining of china's market -- if you're an investor in caterpillar and up nope they made a lot of money out of china's growth in the past, bad news out of china has been measured in and bad news isn't going to keep falling? >> i don't know. i'll say i think so. i know it a weak answer. if today was december 31st, joe, and we ended the year now, the dow being down 8% for the year, this would be the third worst year for the dow since 1977. this has not been a good year for the stock market. if it doesn't improve, you wonder if the market does start to play into the political conversation. for the presidency for next year, you're on the mark about china. i would say yes, people have been spooked. canada have our biggest trading partner, three times more than china, and they're in recession. so that's another topic out there. >> up next if you can't make it to broad way, broadway can come to you. carole king joins "morning joe" next. just might be the one. to clean the oceans, to start a movement, or lead a country. it may not be obvious yet, but one of these kids is going to change the world. we just need to make sure she has what she needs. welcome to windows 10. the future starts now for all of us. 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[whirring of drones] just stay calm and move as quietly as possible. ♪ no sudden movements. ♪ google search: bodega beach house. ♪ ♪ ♪ one fine day, you'll look at me ♪ and you will know our love was meant to be ♪ one fine day you're going to want me for your girl ♪ >> beautiful. the carole king musical opened on broadway in january 2014 and went on to win two tony awards and a grammy. the woman behind the musical, carole king, joins us now. first of all, we're thrilled to have you here as always. >> i'm thrilled to be here. we feel like we always talk about family members, we're talking about barnicle and halperin. you are a family member. so whenever you come back, we're so excited. >> my pleasure, my honor. one thing i want to say about the people -- a lot of people think that when a show is going on the road that the broadway show is folding up and going on the road, that is not what's happening. they're going to be concurrent. >> like a clone. >> exactly. but different actresses and actors. >> so it's very interesting about "beautiful." you, like any of us, would have been a little nervous at the beginning going i don't know if i want to see my life sung to on stage like that, and it actually -- you didn't go see it for a while. it had already become a big hit before you finally said, okay, i'll go see it. >> in disguise. >> in disguise. what was that like? >> it was great. first of all, i didn't have to know that people were watching me watching the show. but it was also great because there were moments in the show that i dreaded, some very, very painful moments that were recaptured very honestly, but i was surprised by a couple of things. one was the woman who plays my mother was so good. and at one point she gives ca l carole a pep talk and it was the pep talk my mother gave me and my mother passed away in 2010 and i'm bawling. but the show is so well done. it's done professionally and well and the people playing all the characters are just great. i would recommend it if i wanted involved in it. >> the interesting thing to me is your initial reluctance to do it, yet when you do finally see it and we see it, the thread of your life is so interesting and carried across all these decades, it's a terrific show but it's been a terrific life and a gift to anyone who really enjoys music over all these years. >> thank you. it's been an interesting life. and one of the things that -- i wrote about this in my book, i have a book called "a natural woman" and i wrote about it that when i was going through some of these things, a lot of marriages were going through similar things because of the times. you know, one or the other of the couple got a little more modern and wanted to have other people in their lives and this was okay because it was the 60s. that's part of it. i think that's the reason it resonates with so many people. >> the kennedy center honors -- two questions, how many people do you get to bring with you? >> not enough. >> and it's spectacular you're being honored. how much are you looking forward to that? >> it is absolutely spectacular. it's the award of awards. i'm being honored with the great sicily tyson, sagy ozawa and eagles. you don't say "the" eagles, it's eagles. >> and you went and surprised the actors on stage one day. look at them. they're absolutely blown away. tell us what we're looking at here. >> i'm hucking jared specter, who plays barry mann. and the cast did not know. by the time i got to jesse, who played me at the time, she was just -- she did not know i was there. nobody knew i was there and she just completely lost it. but it was great. and what we were doing was it was a night of broadway cares, raising money. so, you know, we got the bid up for me to sing "you've got a friend," you know that one and paid a lot of money to have me sing "you've got a friend "with t the cast and it all went to broadway cares. >> carole, thank you for coming. >> the musical will be in providence. be there. more in a minute. and my fico credit score's on here. yeah! we give you your fico credit score. for free! awesomesauce! the only person i know that says that is... lisa? julie? we've already given more than 175 million free fico credit scores to our cardmembers. apply today at discover.com (ding) (clicking noise) read text. 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