Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20150911

your vice president. it's the top of the hour. welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, everybody. richard haass. >> good morning. >> good morning. mike barnicle. did you see that article? >> i did. i did. i watched it. >> he always gives it his all when he's talking to people, and this is hard. you can see it. >> well, it was an extremely rare sighting, given our culture and our politics today. it was an actual human being. >> that's it. say no more. >> march halperin joins us and michael steele in washington as well. we have a lot to get to. a lot of politics, and i hear the patriots cheated again last night. right? >> no. just in foxboro. the steelers were in foxborough. >> something with the headsets. the headsets? sure. apparently checked the balls, but i don't know. we'll get to that story in just a moment. joe was watching late, late, late last night. >> i was. >> we're going to begin with joe biden's extremely emotional personal interview with stephen colbert on the "late show." biden admits he has doubts whether he's ready to run for president after the recent loss of his son bo to brain cancer, and he was kansas-of-candid recalling one of their final talks. >> he said, dad, i know how much you love me. so you've got to promise me something. promise me you're going to be all right, because no matter what happens, dad, i'm going to be all right. promise me. this is a kid who -- who -- i don't know what it was about him. he had this enormous sense of empathy and i'm not making this up. i know i maybe sound like a father. i hope i -- anyway -- but -- >> it sounds like you love him, sir. >> oh, geez, i mean, i -- >> look -- i don't think any man or woman should run for president unless, number one, they know exactly why they would want to be president and, two, they can look at the folks out there and say, i promise you you have my whole heart, my whole soul, my energy, and my passion to do this, and -- and i'd be lying if i said that i knew i was there. >> i went out to denver and i landed a the a military base and i met a whole group of military families, which is not unusual, on a rope line, about 100 yards from the aircraft and it was going great, and a guy in the back yells -- major beau biden, bronze star, sir. served with him in iraq, and all of a sudden -- i lost it. how could you -- i mean -- that's not -- i shouldn't be saying this, but that -- you -- >> you know, we -- >> -- you can't do that. >> sir, i just want to say that i think that your experience and your example of suffering and service is something that would be sorely missed in the race. not that there aren't good people on both sides running, but, i think we'd all be very happy if you did run, and if you don't, i know that your service to the country is something we should all salute. so thank you so much. thank you. >> yeah. like you said. a human being. that was about as real as it gets. >> and that's joe. >> that is him. why we'd want him to run. >> knowing, calling joe, i mean, he's, willie, he's an incredible guy. >> whatever your politics, whatever you're feeling about the obama administration, you ought to go online and watch that full interview. it's remarkable. just a dad talking about his son. and i don't know if there's anyone else on television who could have conducted it with anymore empathy than stephen colbert who lost his father and brother, ironically, 41 years ago lost their lives in a plane crash. >> and mike, you've known joe biden for a very, very long time. >> what you saw last night, we said it earlier, in this atmosphere, in this political environment that we're all witnessing, he's a genuine human being. that is who he is. and who among us has not been damaged at some point in what life brings to the table? and he represents that. he symbolizes it. i mean, he's a wonderful guy. he's just a wonderful guy, and you're absolutely right. about stephen colbert and the tone and tenure of the interview. stephen colbert will go on to have many, many wonderful shows. none as fine as last night. >> i agree. >> richard, your thoughts? >> the word you hear, this whole season, is authentic. >> uh-huh. >> that was beyond authentic. that was raw. and, you know, i'll leave it to others to decide the politics. you almost want to put it aside. it is just so human. and it so pierces through the normal stuff that all of us and everybody else brings to what we saw. it was rare. i mean, at times riveting. it's almost slightly awkward, because even privately, i don't know how many of us would ever bear that much, but to do that on national television? quite extraordinary. >> yeah. >> on a day like today. certainly marks you look at the whole field differently, and i'd like to say -- >> and i think a lot of democrats, a lot of republicans would, there's a new poll out yesterday. a cnn poll, and you can look at the national poll showing joe biden now with 20%. i think more interestingly for democrats, digging into those polls, hillary clinton's lead against republicans has vanished. ben carson is actually well ahead. this is -- we're showing you the democratic side, were ut in a head-to-head matchup, ben carson is now ahead of hillary clinton. jeb bush, within the margin of error, is ahead of hillary clinton. donald trump is tied with hillary clinton. and except for donald trump, the other two candidates actually are doing very well with women. hillary clinton has lost her advantage among women in general election matchups. >>amazing. >> and it's all happened over the past month. an extraordinary change. everybody's been looking at donald trump, starting to look at ben carson, but as far as the actual race on the democratic side, extraordinary, what has happened over the past three to four weeks which were can only lead you to believe that's why hillary clinton finally came out and did something she didn't want to do, and apologize. the question now as you look at the polls is whether she waited about a month too long. >> or just looked too much like she didn't want to do it. we still have mark halperin and michael steele to get to, for the first time all cycle, bernie sanders is leading hillary clinton in polls out of both new hampshire and iowa. a new q poll released yesterday shows sanders ahead of clinton 41% to 40% in iowa, and it um cans days after an nbc/marist poll showed him up nine points in new hampshire. how sanders reacted to the news yesterday. >> yes. i'm stunned. look, we have a message that i believe, i believe from day one was gone to resonate with the american people, and the message is, there's something wrong in this country when the great middle class continues to disappear, almost all the income and wealth goes to the top perce 1%. when millions cannot afford to send their kids to college. i thought those issues would resinate. but did i think as quickly as they have, the answer is, no. >> mark halperin, a lot of people are stunned. not only around this table, but in the democratic party as well, but i want to go back to those numbers before and the head-to-head matchups with hillary clinton. ben carson a guy who's got me scratching my head and i'm a republican, ben carson is -- is ahead of hillary clinton 51-46%. i know it's september, but september ain't august. september ain't july. we're after labor day and suddenly we're in regular season here. jeb bush, ahead of hillary clinton, 49-47%. donald trump tied with hillary clinton 48-48% and you look at the top two line, dig into those numbers on the poll. the most remarkable thing is that ben carson and jeb bush have erased any advantage that hillary clinton has among women. >> here's where i think we are with hillary clinton. right? you look at all of those numbers. if she's going to be the nominee, be president, she has to win ugly. the question is, can she win ugly? bill clinton can win ugly. george w. bush can win ugly. can hillary clinton win this, even as her own campaign, this is going to be tough are and hard. >> why do you say she has to win ugly? what's happened? >> i mean, whoing, she's threatened in iowa and new hampshire. she's still got very good favorability with democrats, but with the general election electorate, she's in a lot of trouble. joe biden likes to say, don't compare me to the almighty. compare me to the alternative. at this point her path to the nomination, her path to the white house, is not winning over a lot of new people, not selling herself anew, although she's going to do a lot of "ellen-like" tv shows to do that. do you want me or the socialist? do you want me or the billionaire developer? that is her path and that's ugly. a lot of politicians know how to win ugly, but she's not done it. >> yeah, and willie, though, you look at these numbers. i will tell you this -- she can't afford another month like the one that just passed, where she's lost ten points in just about every poll. she's dropped in favorabilities, and now suddenly, even democratic donors are looking and saying, oh, my god. she's losing head-to-head matchups with ben carson? with low energy jeb bush? you know, she's tied with donald trump? >> go back to even memorial day. go back, the end of the summer. go back to the beginning of the summer and imagine a scenario where ben carson, neurosurgeon, was defeated hillary clinton, or donald trump who wasn't in the race, the reality show host, was tied with hillary clinton? it's remarkable, michael steele. what do you make of ben carson's rise? is he the kind of guy that can stick around for a while? he's up there with trump in some of the polls. >> i think so, because he's got that insider on him, the ability to resonate with evangelical christians within the base of the party, and i think that he's been able to pull together the kinds of coalitions right now that have sustained hill. remember, you look back over time, he has been consistently in the game. he has not faltered. his numbers have been steadily growing upwards so the test for him as we talk about the test for hillary winning ugly is how he sustains and grows what he needs inside the base of the party to actually unseat a donald trump, for example, or to prevent a jeb bush, should donald trump falter from gaining ground. the other thing to keep in mind with the hillary clinton numbers and's everybody wants to jump up and down about where she is right now, but the nuts and bolts of this is, she still has an electoral college advantage. democrats are currently sitting at 242 votes in the electoral college. republicans at 102. meaning they still at this point only need to win one state to win the white house. republicans need nine. so this is a long campaign ahead of us. >> all right. the stage is set for wednesday's night's republican debate at the reagan library in simi valley. donald trump is again center stage. carly fiorina officially has a podium in the 11-person primetime showdown. the rules amended late last month setting up fiorina to join the ten candidates from the first debate. the other difference -- scott walker moved over and ben carson is now positioned next to trump after his rise in the polls. five candidates will take part in the undercard debate about two hours earlier. they will not include former governor jim gillmore, who failed to meet the 1% support in the two-month polling window, and donald trump says his remarks about carly fiorina's face was taken out of context. trump was quoted in "rolling stone" saying, look at that face, would anyone vote for that, can you imagine, that, that, that. so yesterday on "the view" trump said he wasn't talking about her appearance. >> i'm talking ar her persona. she failed miserableably at hewlett-packard, i'm talking about her persona. >> the latest national poll shows trump not only in first place among all voters, but expanding his lead among republican women. trump takes 33% of women in the latest poll. the highest of any candidate and up 13 points from his score of 20% last month. and yesterday, did you guys see this? louisiana governor bobby jindal slammed head-long into donald trump. the trailing presidential candidate took nearly ten minutes of an hour-long national press club speech to blast the front-runner. >> i like the idea of donald trump. i like the idea of an outsider. i like the idea of something willing to say the things you're not supposed to say. i like the idea of something going after the d.c. political class. i like the idea of donald trump and i like the donald trump act and show. it's a lot of fun, a lot of entertainment. but here's the problem. donald trump is not a serious candidate. he's a narcissist, he's an egomaniac. the only thing he believes in, is himself. donald trump is shallow. he has no understanding of policy. full of buster, has no substance, lacks the intellectual curiosity even learned. you can't argue policy with this guy. like us a narcissists, donald trump is insecure and weak. he's afraid of being exposed. that's why he tells us always and constantly how big and strong and wealthy he is. donald trump's never read the bible. the reason we know he's never read the bible, he's no the in the bible. folks it is time to get serious about making america great again. it is time for donald trump to take the ride down the elevator. it is time for us to tell him, donald, you are fired. >> donald's going to be very angry. bobby ugt issed he's not in the bible. >> that's not all. jindal released an ad comparing trump's winning streak with charlie sheen. >> we're leading in every single poll. >> i'm sorry. winning? >> but the polls have been through the roof. every one of them. >> i think winning. >> and kanye west has been so great. i would never say bad about him because he says such nice things about me. >> giant marquise comes through and winning? >> winning. >> winning in all the polls. >> winning, you make a choice to win and you win. >> i'm win winning everywhere. >> wow. winning. >> i'm biwinning. win here, win there. now what? [ laughter ] >> my god. forgot about that charlie sheen moment. >> for his part. >> exactly. >> donald trump tweeted, "bobby jindal did not make the debate stage and, tlf,herefore, i have everybody inner met him. i never thought he had a chance and i've been proven right." jindal tweeted back at trump writing, we have met, you wrote a check. a fool and his money are soon parted. a fool and his dad's money are parted sooner, and it didn't end there. what's going on? this is like -- >> bobby jindal had this to say. >> like me and sarah hite in eighth grade. >> donald trumpal comments about fiorina's face i. think it's outrageous for him to attack anybody's appearance when he looks like he's got a squirrel sitting on his head. i think he should stop attacking other people's appearances. >> oh, muy god! willie. >> wow. >> this has gotten -- almost personal! >> governor jindal's all-in. >> better watch out. whew. >> governor jindal's on this show -- today. >> oh, my god. >> we got more questions for him. listen, if you get a piece, as it's a strategy, other people employed, rand paul tried it at that last debate on fox. if you get a piece of the donald trump magic, whatever that is, it gets you attention. he was just on "morning joe" for three minutes. bobby jindal. >> maybe tried the trump vodka. >> wow. >> that is something else. where did he get that? he just -- >> we know he's never read the bible because he's not in the bible? >> i think the idea of getting rid of -- >> that would be sad, because -- >> the bible, looks under the tease. >> the washington read. but getting rid of all narcissists from politics would really clear the field. >> it really would clear the field. >> one more story to get in. a lot to get to today. no other sitting u.s. senator running for president missed more votes than marco rubio. according to "usa today," the republican from florida has missed 77 role call votes so far this year. >> wow. >> that's a lot. an absentee rating of almost 30%, and 60% since june. senators rand paul and bernie sanders have missed the fewest votes. senator rubio's campaign defended his absence telling the paper that running for president is time consuming, and that "he has returned to the senate whenever his vote would be decisive." >> mike what do you think about that? >> i think bernie sanders -- >> we got other senators running, doing better than that. >> marco rubio strikes me as -- as somewhat of aknneonight, running in the senate and running for president. there's a way to balance that out. >> people have done it for years. >> yes. >> there's a way to figure out how to make a specific number of votes. not all of them, but certainly more votes than he's missed. >> this 60%. talk about young men in a hurry? >> yeah. >> ah -- yeah. >> the other thing that strikes me, you watch everything we just showed in these clips, all of these candidates for president, and then you go back and you watch the vice president of the united states, and you wonder what people are thinking out there as they watch the candidates, and watch a sitting vice president. >> well, you're right. i mean, and then watch hillary, and then watch the sitting vice president. even martin o'malley yesterday talking about issues. and then -- watching -- i mean -- >> to be fair, hillary gave a serious speech on the iran agreement earlier this week and it was actually a smart speech, i thought, about the agreement. >> yes. >> tough one. >> ms ppromised to attack iran before allowing them to have a nuclear weapon's is that right? >> sure. >> that's comforting. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe" on this 14th anniversary of the terrorist attacks on this country, we'll be joined by many of the officials who lived through 9/11. former new york city mayor rudy giuliani, former governor george pataki, former cia and nsa director michael hayden. also joinings you new york city police commissioner bill bratten and deputy commissioner john miller. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. 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(siri voice) ok, jack's boutique is nearby. alright, i've got another friend and his name is bryan adams. ok. this isn't going to work again. ♪"please forgive me, i know not what i do..."♪ introducing app-connect. the things you love on your phone, available on 11 volkswagen models. they come into this iworld ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. i was going to the library to do my homework. it was a little bit of a walk to get to the bus stop. i had to wait in line to use the computer. took a lot of juggling to keep it all together. what's possible when you have high-speed internet at home? the library never closes. it makes it so much better to do homework when you're at home. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. republican presidential candidate and more importantly former mayor of new york city on a day in 2001 that we'll never forget. here we are now, 14 years later. >> wow. >> yeah. wow is right. tell us how you feel this morning, looking back 14 years later. >> probably as complicated as i did that day. feel terrible. worst day of my life, and worst day in the life of the history of the city and maybe the greatest day, because of all the heroism and terrific acts of kindness and -- unbelievable things people did to save each other. so the feelings are enormously complex. i was there last night giving a talk. so i spent some time there, and it's very hard to go back. >> so we always go back around 9:00 to see what happened. >> yep. >> tell me what was going through your mind at 10:00, an hour later? i want to know, did you think more attacks were coming? >> well, yeah, yeah. i was told more attacks were coming. first thing i was told by the white house was there was seven planes still unaccounted for. i not only knew about the three. >> you thought they were coming to new york. >> i didn't know if any were coming to new york and second, both the police department and the fbi told me that they believed this might trigger smaller suicide attacks. meaning that this might be a trigger for a whole massive number of attacks. of course, we had had the '93 attack on the world trade center which had come out of a mosque in new jersey. when i -- when i was mayor we used to go to mosque and listen to them. mayor de blasio stopped that, i think very unwisely. largely because there are some in which these plots are hatched. and we stopped a few, because of that. so the first thing commissioner carrick did was he cut off the bridges from new jersey, because he didn't want people that we had under surveillance to come in, and we covered about 100 targets that we thought would be hit, including st. patrick's, temple emanuel, some of the schools. so basically, i divided myself into half. half of my attention was saving the lives that, people that might be trapped. the fire department did that, and then protecting the rest of the city against what were consistent warnings from -- >> possible future attacks? >> from the fbi and the police department. >> mika, your first day at cbs was that morning. >> yeah. >> you actually ran from 57th street down to ground zero, were down there for -- two weeks? >> a lot of us spent a long time down there, covering the story, and we were so lucky to be able to go home to our families is what i thought every second of every moment of every day that we covered that story, because so many families were just wiped out completely, devastated by so much loss. it's still hard 14 years later to really put into one thought the magnitude of the loss in those moments. >> it is. it's impossible, and i live with it probably every day in my -- my assistant of 35 years lost her husband. he was the captain of rescue 1. they have a 14-year-old daughter. >> hmm. >> i have many friends that i lost that day. families i know, and i've made friends of many of the families. >> right. >> but the point that i make and i made last night when i was there, we can fool ourselves with this memorial and this museum and everything else into thinking this is over. this isn't pearl harbor. there's a museum there and that war's over. this war is still on. every single reason for that attack is festering in parts of the world right now. >> intensified. >> i would say it's intensified and diversified. >> yeah. >> right. >> and -- the islamic terrorist threat to america is greater today than it was before september 11th. >> agree 100%. it's changed, islamic controlled territory, inspiring attacks. give us the scale of 9/11. for me, i was in belfast, a state department official doing northern ireland. all the people that died in the troubles in three decade, just lightly more than the number of people who died in new york in one morning. just to give you a sense of the scale. just over 3,000 people in northern ireland over 30 years. here, 3,000 in a morning. >> wow. i would start, mr. mayor, as a new yorker and a guy who grew up in the river in new jersey where my town lost 12 people that day to thank you for your leadership. democrat, republican, i don't think anybody can dispute what you did in the days after 9/11. it's been hashed and rehashed. the intelligence failures at the federal level leading up to 9/11. did you have any inkling inside the mayor's office or the new york police department that something on this scale was even possible in new york city? >> we certainly expected a terrorist attack. we were even warned of terrorist attacks that turned out not to happen. we had a terrorist attack thatt department headed for a toggle switch two years earlier under commissioner safir. from the day i became mayor, '93, running for mayor when the terrorist attack took place, i established and office of emergency management, specifically for that purpose. but to answer your question specifically, no, we didn't expect it of that magnitude. >> yeah. >> we thought of, i think, every scenario possible, but not airplanes being used as missiles, crashing into our buildings. we expected terrorist attacks like the ones that in those days were going on in israel. >> old-fashioned terrorism? >> yeah. and someone blowing up the world trade center. we arrested many terrorists. we would find them with plans. plans for the brooklyn bridge. the george washington bridge. the subways. the tunnels. plans for the stock exchange. and the world trade center, but the idea was more like there would be a suicide bombing. >> right. >> we had drills preparing for that kind of attack. we had a drill once right in front of the world trade center preparing for a sarin gas attack on a political rally. but that's the kind of thing that the -- >> tried to think of everything. >> yeah. one of the things that struck me immediately when i got down there and i saw a man jumping from the 101st floor was, i grabbed the commissioner's arm and i said, gosh, you know, we plan for everything, but we don't have a plan for this one. we're just going to have to pray to god we get it right. >> yeah. >> changed the way we think about everything. >> yeah. you know -- september 10, the world was one way, and by september 11, we're in a new world, and the unfortunate part of it is we're still in it. we're still in that, in that war. >> former mayor rudy giuliani. thank you for being on the show. >> well, thank you. thank you very much. >> thank you. still ahead, live to the world trade center ahead of today's remembrance ceremony. police commissioner bill bratton will join us. up next, vice president joe biden's decision on 2016 to come at any time. we're going to talk to the man leading the movement to draft him into the race, plus, it's a new season and a new controversy for the new england patriots. wipe they are facing fresh criticism just one game in. "morning joe" is back in a moment. let's discuss medical supplies i'm kind of happy with my guys. i think you'll love our newest line the stuff my vendor sells works fine. and my budget's small, just so you know. ♪ should i stay or should i go when you choose to go for business, go to the new choicehotels.com it makes finding the right room faster and easier than ever. and right now stay two times and earn a free night book now at choicehotels.com ♪ ♪ isn't it beautiful when things just come together? build a beautiful website with squarespace. without the internet i would probably be like a c student. internet essentials from comcast has brought low-cost high speed internet into the homes of hundreds of thousands of low-income families. it lets students do homework and study at home. so far more than two million people across america have benefitted. internet essentials is going to transform the lives of families. i see myself as maybe an entrepreneur. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. i love being out there with my teammates playing and so, yes, i think it was something i really look forward to, and i was excited to go out there and certainly to win and to be 1-0. so last year we started 0-1. tough to do. we got off to a better start. >> after all that deflategate business the new england patriots took the season opener against the steelers beating them 28-21. patriots never trailed in the game. tom brady threw four td passes including three to gronk. ron grb gronkowski. 19 straight completions during the game. his 23rd game with at least four touchdown passes tying brett favre for third to on the list. >> willie, watching that. wondering, almost like the steelers' coaches weren't even communicating with each other. they really -- they got some problems. >> funny you should mention that. the head coaches from both teams, first the steelers, said they experienced issues with their communications systeming during the game. it was reported specifically the steelers are receiving the patriots radio broadcast in their headsets. >> this just never ends! they can't help themselves. >> steelers head coach mike tomlin said this is a recurring problem when they play in foxborough. >> the electrician for the greater boston. it's not an electrician's town, boston. >> before they say foul play, released saying headset interference "caused by a stadium power infrastructure exacerbated by the inclement weather." >> it was brady. >> provided for the nfl used by both teams, not by the patriots themselves. >> so there. >> welcome to foxborough. >> idiots. joining us now, senior adviser of the biden super pac. josh alcorn, great to have you on the show. >> great to be here. >> so what do you think after watching joe biden on colbert last night. seems like he's really torn. do you think he'll run? >> i do think he'll run. i think what we saw last night on, on "the colbert show" the joe biden we know, we love, we trust. a guy who's not going to sugar coat anything. not his feeling, not the problems he thinks the country faces. this is the honest joe biden. i think that's what the american people are looking for right now. >> we certainly understand his hesitation and can't understand all the pain he's going through. it has to be extraordinary pain, but there is a campaign to get to. he's behind as far as timing goes. he's got to make his mind up quick. doesn't he? >> i'm sure he'll make up his mind on his own timeline. what we're doing is building out the infrastructure he'll need. when he's ready, we're ready. we have volunteers, state directors in the four early states. field organizersen 0 the ground doing the grassroots organization. just yesterday we announced our 15th endorsement in iowa from a current or former elected official. this guy was mayor of newton, iowa, state senator chaz allen. doing that -- >> but you need a candidate. where are you going to get a candidate? >> amazing we've done so well without a candidate. >> you got to admit, you'll do better wery a candidate? >> we certainly will, but have done enough fund-raising to put forward these state organizations. >> when are you going to get a candidate? >> ooo-ey hope soon. hope soon. >> what's wrong with the rest of the field? >> i don't think there's anything wrong with the rest of the field. there's a thirst for joe biden. you saw it last night. he's going to look in the camera, tell people what he thinks, what he's feeling, what he thinks, the problems facing this country. that's just joe biden. doing it a long time. >> what it's your connection with joe biden? a relationship previously or just a guy inspired by him? >> i'm certainly inspired by him but i worked on his president's campaign in 2008. i worked for his son for 2 1/2 years, for bo. >> any nudging from the biden family to help get this campaign off the ground? have you had any communication with them? >> no. i talked to the vice president shortly after bo's funeral about bo, not about this. but you know, it was clear to me kind of at the end of july, beginning of august, kind of the biden buzz started, the draft biden would be the organization that needed to do that real infrastructure building. i just wanted to go and help out. >> let me read what is said in "the washington post." it might be time for hillary clinton to start panicking. memo to clinton world -- it might be time to start panicking. i know it's september 10th. i know it won't be a vote of any sort until mid-january at the earliest, i know clinton remains solidly ahead in national polling. i know that sanders is not barack obama. but i also know that there is now a realistic if not strong chance that sanders will win iowa caucuses and the new hampshire primary, and that vice president biden enters the race and circles the south carolina primary as his place to take down clinton and sanders. add those things up, and there's plenty of reason for some stomach churning at clinton's brooklyn headquarters. mike? >> with all of that in mind, josh, south carolina and new hampshire, is there a logistical drop-dead date you have in terms of getting the vpd on ballots? >> interesting. we're a super pac. a lot of things the campaign has to do. right? collecting signatures, paying filing fees, and so as those dates kind of come up, certainly he's the one who has to do that. right? what we can do with draft biden, grow our grass roots network in these states. stake virginia. 600 signatures from every congressional district. i think it's 600. we can't get the people to sign but can make sure 3,000 people are signed up in every congressional district so if and when he gets in -- >> are you talking november? december? how far can you will et it go? >> i think you start seeing states fall off the map by the middle of november. >> hmm. >> in terms of access. >> josh alcorn, thank you so much. see what happened. >> a new candidate. up next, probably the most dangerous time since 9/11. former new york governor george pataki is here with his plan to keep the nation safe, if he were president. "morning joe" will be right back. just might be the one. to clean the oceans, to start a movement, or lead a country. it may not be obvious yet, but one of these kids is going to change the world. we just need to make sure she has what she needs. welcome to windows 10. the future starts now for all of us. ...is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. we have a common background and a common destiny, and when we stand together, we can accomplish anything. i saw that on the streets of new york in the days and weeks after september 11th. we understood we were all americans who had been attacked and were going to rise up together, and we did. >> that was former new york governor george pataki, referencing 9/11 when he announced his white house campaign back in may, and the republican presidential candidate joins us now on the 14th anniversary of those attacks. 14th. good to have you onboard this morning. >> thank you, mika. nice being here. >> you actually said, governor, you wouldn't have been here on that day if it weren't for richard haass. >> richard haass. special envoy to ireland to deal with the negotiations for peace there and i was going to go to northern ireland to accompany the catholic children and school and the ambassador specifically requested that i not go, and, of course, i deferred to the ambassador. otherwise, i would have been in ireland. >> he finally said, no. you're not allowed to go. >> no, he didn't say that. he specifically requested that i do not go. at that point -- >> very politely. >> at that point i said i will honor the request of my ambassador. so, richard, thank you. >> remember that extraordinary day that tragic day 14 years later. >> you know, i never look forward to this day. it was just such a horrible, horrible day. and i don't think the leadership in washington remembers the lesson of that day. that radical islam, even if it's an ocean and a continent away poses a threat to us here in america. but i also think the american people have forgotten the lesson. as i was saying in that little clip you ran, where we came together as americans. we put aside petty differences. we weren't republicans or democrats. we weren't black or white, young or old. we were americans. and one of the most moving things to me was to see how we all had that sense of identity as americans first and then whatever seems to superficially divide us way down below that, and we have to recapture that'sit's just tragic today that 14 years later we are as divided as i've ever seen during my lifetime, when we were so unified in the days, weeks and months after september 11th. >> yeah. >> i mean, you're right. and we just had the whole iran debate, in a sense doesn't end. if you were elected, what do you think you could do to actually bridge, not just between the parties but within the parties? >> richard, first of all, i think it's outrageous that, and i don't mean to be partisan, particularly on september 11th, were ut that the senate democrats will not allow a vote on one of the most important, if not the most important multi-national agreements of the last decade. it's simply outrageous. how can they go to the american people and say, we don't think we should have to vote on this deal that is affecting every single person in the world's lives in a profound way? it is totally wrong. having said that, your question about what would i do as president is i would work across party lines, and you have to do that. i see all of the republican candidates up there saying, i'm going to do this. i'm going to do that. the only way you're going to be able to really change this country is by putting together a bipartisan consensus in washington. i know that. you know, i was governor of this state for 12 years. i had a state assembly where there were 103 democrats and 47 republicans and yet i was able to get through a sweeping conservative agenda in this state, by putting together that bipartisan consensus. i know if i have the chance to lead this country i can do that in washington. >> let me push you for a second. wouldn't bipartisanships say now you don't have the votes in the iran agreement. it's going to happen. focus on the policy going forward? wouldn't that be a bipartisan -- >> i don't think so at all. congress over 90 members of the senate voted to say that we should have a voice on this. we should be able to vote up our down and that was a bir partisan over 90 members saying, give us a vote. and now they're saying we don't want a vote, simply for partisan reasons. i think there should be a vote. i think there should be an effort to make people be accountable, whether or not they support this deal. i think it's a horrific deal. ooo-ey think ooo-ey -- it's against americans' interest, against those who believe in the rule of law and human rights interests and i think people should be held accountable on that. >> going back to september 11th, showing pictures of the pile that day and the days after and even 14 years later you see the video, it ip ares you right open again. >> incredible. >> at the risk of asking you to relive that terrible day i think it's important people remember what happened that day. how did you hear about it? what did you first think when you heard? >> willie, i was in the city that morning and my daughter actually called me. emily called, dad, did you see a plane hit the towers? i didn't have the tv on. i hadn't seen it. soap i turned it on and was talking toer had, because she was rattled. then i saw the second plane hit, and immediately i knew we were under attack, and so i -- stopped talking with her. talked to mayor giuliani. told hum i was in the city. organizing the state's emergency response immediately. called president bush. i actually got him at the education summit in florida and we talked about closing the airspace and taking appropriate steps. and then, it's the only time in 14 years i ignored my security. they said, you have to get out of here's you have to go to the command center in albany because we don't know what's going to happen. i said, no. i can't leave. i can't leave new york. ooo-ey can't be fleeing to a bunker. so i stayed and actually went to lower manhattan, walked the streets, talked to people as we were organizing our response. >> what's the memory 14 years later that sticks with you the most from walking those streets right after the attacks? >> what willie mentioned, about the awful, awful infernal that was the pile. i went down and actually that night was at ground zero, and the flames were everywhere. you could taste the air from one river to the other. if ever there was dante's inferno live, it was lower manhattan that day. and yet i remember, too, and this is another terrible memory, on january 1st, almost four months later when mike bloomberg was sworn in at gracie mansion, you could see the smoke still rising from ground zero a few blocks to the south. almost four months later it was still burning. that's one of the reasons i'm so passionate about continuing the law to provide health benefits to the people who were on that pile. not eight hours a day, five days a week but 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. they risked their lives helping america get through this for months. >> i agree with you on that. former governor pataki. thank you so much for coming in. former cia director hayden is with us ahead. stay with us. we'll be right back. 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[ laughter ] >> that was josh earnest getting interrupted by a new white house correspondent by the name of siri -- sorry. coming up at the top of the you are ho, a guiquin kwa anybody qc poll, bring you that soon as it comes out. >> and hillary clinton -- >> losing to one we're trying to gelt our arms around, trying to figure why he's doing so well. >> and vice president joe biden's extremely raw interview with stephen colbert, and the democratic nominee for mississippi governor, a trucker who hasn't spent any money and didn't even vote for himself in the primary. willie sits down with political outsider -- that would be an outsider -- robert gray. who may just drive his way into the governor's mansion, but has tough questions to answer first. >> here's perhaps the most important question of this campaign. >> uh-huh. >> hail state or hotty toddy? >> anything mississippi. >> oh, you are a politician. >> hey -- we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪ ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] ♪ my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand. ♪ my mom can print amazing things right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees. [ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ how much prot18%?does your dog food have? my mom works at ge. 20? nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna has 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. ah. reminiscent. welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful morning in new york city. >> back to that shot for a second. i think everybody will remember, well, you know, that's what's so unbelievable 14 years later. >> hmm. >> that, you know, we don't have control of the camera, by the way. but so i'm going to blame that on t.j., but from that shot, thanks, t.j., even at another network you're still ruining moving moments for us. but the shot from the top of the rock as you look down was really the should the that we saw the buildings after they were hit. and then i don't -- i don't know anybody that doesn't remember the moment when they came down. what is so unbelievable, though, is i've got a 12-year-old daughter going to school this morning learning about september 11th, and a 7-year-old boy learning about it. for them, it's -- >> history books. >> just a page in history. every bit as much as pearl hash ea harbor is a page in history for most americans, mike. >> the 9/11 museum is a powerful, powerful museum that every american ought to take the opportunity when in manhattan to go there. the exhibits are incredible. they bring everything back vividly. and we need constant reminders, i think. >> we do need constant reminders and there are a lot of people that will tell us today that we need constant reminders of the threat brought by radical islam, and i adegree wir agree with th. political correctness stifled that debate too much over the past 14 years, but i want my children to know something else. i want my children to know how americans responded in the minutes, in the seconds, in the minutes, in the hours after 9/11. i want them to know how this country came together it. i've never in all of my life, and i doubt i ever will be as proud of this country. i will never love new york city as much as i loved new york city that morning. i will love new york forever because of what new yorkers did that morning, and there's so many children that look at the news and see this country divided every day. i want to tell you something -- it's a mirage. at our heart, at our best, we are united, and we are one. and if anybody doesn't believe that, then you weren't around in the seconds, in the minutes, in the hours, in the days, and in the weeks following september 11th. >> so -- >> and mika, you were there. >> i was there. >> and i talk about -- small things that people did. you were there. with a man who grabbed you as you were staring up at one of the towers falling, and you were frozen and he grabbed you, and he threw you under a car. >> well, we went -- >> to protect you. >> we went in a school. it was actually very, very close to the tower. so all of the debris was coming in the windows, and i will never look at a firefighter the same way again. i thought i knew being in local news for so many years, how brave and incredible the job that they do every day is, but they used this school as their watering station to come in, take a breath, and then walk back in to the towers. this is before the second one went down. and covered with soot. drinking a little bit, and then walking back in, and knowing, calling wives to say good-bye. walking back in, knowing that they were walking to their deaths, assuming that, but knowing they had a job to do. i couldn't believe it. i still can't believe it, and i remember their faces. i remember their eyes. >> and i've got a friend, mike, who was up, i think, on the 70th floor of the second tower that got hit. he was in a business meeting. he saw the other tower get hit and george closed his brief case, went to the stair, walked down those stairs while everybody else was running over to look at the window. they didn't make it down. and -- george saw as he was going down and so many others saw as they were going down to their safety, five fighters and police officers going up. and the line that um cans to mind is, where do we find these men? where do we find them? >> there are just literally thousands of stories like that, joe. firefighters getting up 60, 62, 70 floors above ground zero that day, one of the mother enduring memories i have of those days following september 11th was about three days after september 11th, and it was about 3:30 in the morning, and i was here writing, trying to write something about it, and we were over on 10th avenue, and it was about 3:00, 3:30 in the morning and many, many people were milling around trying to find loved ones. tacking up pieces of paper we pictures of loved ones. if you see this person, please, cabinet, call this number. >> yeah. >> and a ladder truck came down the street with firefighters hanging off of it, and the crowd on's both sides of the street stopped, turned and started applauding wildly. and it was an incredibly emotional moment, just an incredibly emotional moment. you can walk past houses. firehouses today, all over manhattan be, and see the plaques outside the fire houses for the number of firefighters lost in that. >> almost every one. >> yes. >> the memorial, the beautiful outdoor installation has all of the names of those that were lost, including the firemen, and a friend of mine actually joined the new york fire department, because of 9/11. >> i mention in my hometown, in new jersey, 12 victims. the impression that stayed with me, i wasn't in new york or new jersey at the time. it's a big commuter town. people drive to the train station, park their cars, take the train into new york city, and the 12 people who lost their lives, many of their cars sat in that parking lot for days, or a week, and were a reminder to everyone who drove by that they got up, maybe they kissed their kids before they went to school. got on the train and never returned home, and that's one of the things that will always stay with me. >> so as we mark this day, and we look ahead, especially in the world of politics, amy holmes is here from blames tv. michael steele is also still with us, and from washington the co-founder of the opinion research firm echelon insights christian solstice and chuck todd. good to have you onboard. take a look at the new cnn orc poll showing hillary clinton struggling in a hypothetical general election matchup with two gop candidates. among registered voters she's down five points. to ben carson. down two points to jeb bush. and tied with donald trump. >> let's stop right there. we have a lot to go through. a lot of polls. a new q poll crossing soon. but chuck todd, look at those numbers. this has been one of the worst months for hillary clinton. than i can remember any candidate having. especially in august, where there's not supposed to be news. she's dropped 10 points in just about every poll and here you actually have ben carson and jeb bush ahead of her? >> every time you think, okay, when is she at bottom? it feels like there's a new bottom, and, you know, these -- look, and we can all use the caveats all we want. oh, these general election numbers, you know, how meaningful are they right now? but a month ago when she was having bad poll numbers, when it was starting to go down, one of the things they hung their hat on is, well, as bad as her nushs may look, she's still in better shape when matched up against anyone republican. well, that's not happening anymore. right? this is just -- pile after pile after pile. it's like she got bad primary poll numbers. explain it away with sanders, but suddenly if her electability is in question, then that's when -- when the hand wringing truly begins and when donors start panicking. i think they are panicking. >> that is the biggest problem for them. donors right now panicking. you go inside the numbers here and against ben carson and jeb bush, nip lead she had with women is wiped out. >> it's really remarkable to look at how the polls in the general election context have changed. so much of the attention has been paid to the rise are bernie sanders and the struggles in the democratic primary. by and large democratic voters still like her. they're not breaking away from her in the primary to go to bernie sanders because they're concerned about things like the e-mail or what have you, but in the general election context, independent voters who don't necessarily give hillary clinton the benefit of the doubt, they're the ones really paying attention and it's poll numbers like this that i assumed the clinton campaign has been seeing internally, informing their decision to now change course and have hillary clinton come out and try to apologize for the e-mail story, instead of hoping, well, maybe it will just go away. >> very interesting, mika, when republicans nominate somebody that doesn't do as well in the general election, everybody wrings their hands and said, oh, they're radical and insular and looking inward and their primaries, it's a race to the bottom. so if they're going to live by that sword, they have to die by that sword. if hillary clinton starts doing more poorly in general election matchups, the clinton people can't come out and say, well, it doesn't really matter, because as chuck said to donors it does. >> appears to be the sum in terms of some of the reporting we've seen this week. joe biden, meanwhile, performs much better against those candidate. like clinton, he is losing to ben carson but finished eight points ahead of bush and ten points ahead of trump. >> ben carson. okay. michael steele, explain it to me. >> yeah. >> you've got to explain ben carson to me. >> we feel like we're missing a story. he's amazing. >> i can explain trump. i can't explain ben carson. yeah. he's a nice guy a great doctor. great. >> he is the other side of that outsider coin. you've got trump who is the bright shining object who is the gadfly, the guy who charges your juices, and then you've got ben carson who has that very calm sort of, that doctor demeanor, that soft-spokenness, that is lined with conviction, that's lined with a passion about the country, and about the issues that he's talking about, and it's resonating, and's is bubbling up, which is why you see his numbers tilting the way they are. now, the question of sustainability, joe. you know how campaigns go, and chuck does as well. the sustainability, particularly getting through this next round with carly fiorina on the stage next week, who's going to suck some air off that stage, i think the numbers will fluctuate more. >> the quinnipiac poll just released moments ago. donald trump, ben carson and ted cruz hold the top spots. trump at 27%. carson, 21%. both up 10% from early this summer. cruz holds steady at 9% and carly fiorina and john kasich, an uptick. scott walker led among voters. and now scott walker has plummeted to 3%. >> wow. >> holy cow. >> and 79% of republican caucusgoers say that experience outside of washington is a -- >> everybody saying, wow! irving saying, wow! i hear you. like, it's -- it's like the british house of common. [ mumbling ] scott walker, willie, at 3%. rand paul, 4%. >> down 15%, xo tscott walker. scott walker talked about win anywhere, iowa. built for that state. put all of this time and attention there to get the ball rolling and push to new hampshire as a midwest guy. all made sense. go back to the first page of that, amy, it's not a fluke anymore. it's a trend. every poll we see in this primary, whether iowa or other states, has donald trump at the top and ben carson, both polling in the 20s and then it's everybody else. >> exactly. read the reports that scott walker's going to sharpen it up, be tougher, get in there, be more of a brawler. you see on the screen, went from 18% down to 3%? the only word to describe that is tanking. it surprises me actually about the hillary clinton matchups with the gop, is how well ben carson is doing. i understand it among republican primary voters, they have affection for him, evangelical voters as well. but generally, ben carson? he's not exactly a household name and he's beating hillary clinton. >> can you tell me what is ben carson's position? what's his tax plan? what's his plan on saving entitlements? what's his plan on isis? let's just go down the list. >> normally you would expect people asking opinions about ben carson they would say, ben who? and meanwhile, there it is rocketing to the top ahead of hillary clinton. >> he's a good guy, and chuck todd, it's not personal, but i remember going after newt gingrich for spending too much money. somebody said, why is this personal? i said, it's not personal. if my mom were speak are and doing this i'd vote her out and it wouldn't be personal. this is not personal when i say what i say about ben carson, but i don't get it, because i don't know where he stands on policies. i know he's a good guy. i know he's a good christian. >> right. >> he says he is. >> he said some extreme things. >> he's said some extreme things, compared to america to nazi germany. that's problematic. but as far as policy goes, i just haven't heard anything. how does a guy rocket ahead of everybody in general election matchups like that? >> i think right now, i think he's a bit of a place holder. i mean, this is where -- >> interesting. >> a group of republican voters who want to be for an outsider and can't stomach trump. right? and i think right now that carson is the home for those voters. i think some evangelicals, he is appealing to evangelicals and i think some of that is, he is having conversations with voters, i think, under a radar a little differently than others. whether on social media. whether in different ways. i think they running a more unconventional campaign. but he's got to sort of get more conventional at some point. and i think he's got to start rolling out policies. he's got to -- if he's going to take that next step, he's got to start making the case that he can be president. >> putting some meat on the bones. >> exactly. and i think that, you know, look, he's popped. maybe he's popped faster than he expected. but now he's got his moment, let's see what he does with it. >> what a rejection, though, the republican establishment. >> totally. >> there are some good candidates out there. >> what's going on? >> there are some good candidates out there. >> what is going on? >> i understand, because i have been angry at my republican party for 20 years for spending too much money. for not fighting hard enough. for getting us into too many wars. >> hey, joe -- >> but, michael, there are some good people out there. >> yeah. >> that are in single digits. >> that should know better? >> they've gotten lost in the anger, and the real, hard anger that the base has with the party, and it's been building for a long time. and it boils down to lies. you have a base that feels they have been lied to time and time again. and you have this fresh voice that's coming in saying, i'm just not going to sugar coat, not going to lie to you about what's going on. you know the real deal, so do i. that's a lot a lot of these governors in particular, the senators, have gotten caught up in this vortex that the pace bas with the establishment. how do they get themts out selv of it? chuck touched on the policies and trying to put yourself to be the place holder so when things settle down, as you get into november-december, you're the go-to. right now they're not showing the capability to do even that because the base is so angry. >> certainly, mike, there must be one republican candidate that has served one day in public office that can pull some votes in? there must be -- >> wooey is that important, joe, they have to serve in public office? why is that important for you? >> how about knowing where the -- >> for the same reason why i have said for eight years, it was important that barack obama actually understand how washington worked before he went to washington. >> absolutely. >> we see it in the iran deal. we saw it in the affordable care act. i've heard it from people who were loyal to barack obama and worked for barack obama. that the most maddening thing about working for him was, he would stake a position. and he would say, i am right. and now i'm going to stay here until the entire world comes to me. this is why, amy, we have the most important foreign policy decision since george w. bush tragically went into iraq. that is now passing with 41 votes in the united states senate. that's why we've had the most substantial piece of legislation passed in domestic politics since medicare in 1965 that passed without a single vote. barack obama's most important foreign policy initiative and most important domestic policy initiative passed with no republican votes. now, you can say what you want about bill clinton. we all can. the guy grew up in arkansas. he grew up in a conservative state. and he knew he had to compromise. and he did compromise. and that's why over 30% of republicans approved of the job that they. ronald reagan, he governed in california, fairly progressive state. he knew how to deal with liberals. that's why when he left office, more than 30% of democrats supported him. there is a reason why barack obama is the most divisive president, if you just look at the poll numbers, in the divide between republican and democratic support, of any other president in the u.s. history other than george w. bush. and if you have never run for office, if you have never been in office, if you have never had to slug it out in washington, d.c., and deal with people who called you a nazi the day before, because you want to get long-term health care through, for federal employees, then you don't know how it's done. it ain't being a ceo. it ain't being a doctor. and i know eisenhower was never in office but then again eisenhower freed europe, and had to deal with -- arrogant s.o.b.s ever. you deal with mehdi, figure how to beat hitler, you can deal with the house and senate. i just don't see it here, mike. i don't see it. i want at least one republican that served one day in office in that top three. >> well, i want someone running for the presidency and winning the presidency who knows how to coordinate a government. how to pull a government together. how to talk to people on both sides of the aisle, because, you know, you're right in one aspect. i don't agree with everything you said. >> there's so much there. >> but you're right in one aspect. you've got to get people with different views in a room, we have to pull this together for the united states of america. >> right. which is not, we're not saying that in washington right now. >> thank you both for being leer. chuck todd what do you have on sunday's "meet the press"? >> well, mr. christie and mr. sanders. >> oh, good! >> there you go. >> and the last ambassador to syria. robert ford. i want to get into sort of figuring out -- because the real solution to the microcrisis, make syria a livable place. >> fantastic show. christie and, feel the burn? do you feel the burn? chuck? >> do i feel the burn? >> uh-huh. >> every time, every sunday. every sunday. you know that. every time -- >> i have no idea what you're talking about. >> what are you talking about? >> go to your twitter feed right now, brother. you'll feel the burn. >> all right. >> it will be #feeltheburnbaby. >> he'll feel it. up next on "morning joe," general michael hayden standing by while the former cia ands n says it feels like the switch and bait in sears. and a top security in new york city 14 years after the september 11th attacks is, police commissioner bill bratton and deputy commissioner john miller will join us. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? 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we had rudy giuliani on earlier saying the threat hasn't gone away. there has been no peace treaty to end this war. it continues unabated today. tell us how that makes your job every day more difficult. >> it does make it more difficult, certainly, that the threat is growing, not diminishing. the threat from al qaeda, which pulled off the 9/11 attack successfully, unfortunately, still remains, but the more persistent threat and the growing threat to us no you is isis or isil, and their ability of using social media to inspire while they encourage people to come to syria to fight they're also encouraging people living in this country to take up arms against their country. so the threat has changed fairly dramatically over the last 18 months and mayor giuliani is correct. we won here in the resilience of new york city. that building behind me and many buildings around it are reflective are how great this country is, ow ability to come back, but that threat is still there and we will be dealing with for unfortunately generations to come. >> john miller, you've been focusing on this story for many, many years. you were one of the last reporters in a prior incarnation in your life to interview osama bin laden, and today every day, i assume you look at all the intel reports that come across your desk at the nypd, where would you place the activity level today as compared to when you first came back to the nypd with commissioner bratton? >> i would say the activity level today in terms of the pace, in terms of the cadence, is busier. if you just look at the period between june 2nd and june 29th, we had nine arrests from boston to north carolina, including half a dozen arrests in new york city and new jersey of people who were at various stages of plotting the beheading of named enemies of isis in manhattan. pressure cooker bombs focusing on the july 4th celebrations in new york city. so these plots are all interdicted, prevented from good intelligence, but the threat hasn't gone away at all. >> general hayden, you were director of the nsa 14 years ago today. how would you assess the difference in the threat today. >> right. >> from that day? >> i think -- i agree with both the commissioner and john's analysis here. i would say today, threat in coming days, less well organized, less complex, less likely to succeed, less lethal, even if they do succeed, but far more numerous. and that makes their problem more difficult than going against that slow-moving, complex, many actor attack that we've become very good at stopping. >> why do you say less likely to succeed, given the growth of isis? >> well, you've got, you know -- playing odds here. more attempts, all right, but in terms of those attempt ares being successful as a percentage of the attempts will go way down, because as john pointed out, we're arresting these people. these aren't the pros from dover. these are self-radicalized. right now isis especially is happy with that kind of actor? uft to keep the pressure on us. >> so just for new york city alone, commissioner bratton, in some ways your job is more complicated on many levels, given what michael hayden was saying, but also the -- the situation that the police department is in on the streets, on other levels? >> we are constantly adjusting to meet the changing threat. >> yeah. >> under the process of assigning 450 additional personnel to john miller's operation, to deal with the emerging isil/isis threat. as the general indicated, those sites of attacks would be certainly potentially less lethal than the experience of 9/11 with the 3,000 deaths there. but their propaganda value to the terrorists, still very, very significant. so john's going to have a very highly trained unit of 450 officers specially equipped that can help defend but in the event if we were to have an incident, to quickly overcome that incident and deal with it very effectively. >> all right, mr. commissioner, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. bill bratton and deputy commissioner john miller. thank you so much as well. we'd love to have you come into the studio and have you talk to us about all that you're doing for the city. general hayden, let's move on to the iran deal. yesterday democrats were celebrating that they got 41 senators to pass this deal. is -- what are your thoughts, what are your concerns as it looks like this iran deal is moving forward? >> yeah. three baskets, joe. first, the deal itself. the part the president wants to emphasize, 0-10 against a nuclear program. frankly, i amit, the bet part of the whole package. i can fill the rest of our air time complaining about parts of it, but there is some goodness in there. what i'm really worried about is the nuclear portfolio at 10-plus. essentially we've given the iranians a work program to get where it is they want to be. which is, a nuclear state always on the threshold of a nuclear weapon, and then the other bass account i worry about are the immediate non-nuclear effects of this deal's so i wrote what we need to do is, yes, but, or no unless, in terms of looking at the deal. take a lot of steps now to push back against the iranians in non-nuclear ways in the middle east, and then, frankly, i think we really need to take a second look at what it is we think we've agreed to by executive agreement, not treaty, in 8, 10 and 15 years when the real limits come off the iranian program. >> now, we had yesterday, or the day before, we had tim cane on saying, well, there have been a lot of things that have passed. a lot of things that presidents have done that were unpopular at the time and one of the things, nixon going to china. what would you say to the senator? >> he mentioned the nuclear test ban treaty, equally unpopular when president kennedy first tabled it. both of those, joe, ended up in the hands of the other political branch. our relationship with china is governed by the taiwan relations act that was passed by congress. and the nuclear test ban treaty is a treaty. so you brought the other political branch in. that's the only way you get sustaining power for an agreement inside the american -- >> unpopular those two presidents, president mckinley and nixon actually built the majority? >> did what they had to do to get a majority to enact them. >> if you could be more specific on the non-nuclear threats that bother you, or the non-nuclear aspects of our attitude towards iran, what would it be? >> i would take the iranians on and take them on aggressively, particularly in syria. also do it in iraq. they'll continue the support to hamas and hezbollah. mike, let me give you a metaphor for the circumstance. we're going all of this now. right? and for the first time in years we have gapped our carrier coverage in the persian gulf. that's almost inconceivable. >> what does that mean? >> it means we don't have an aircraft carrier anywhere in the region. >> why? >> great. thank you for asking. because the defense budget is where it is. and so one of the things i suggest, if you're going to do this you were unof the unavoidable costs of doing this, make the d.o.d. budget right and healthy again so we have the military power to push back against the iranians and double down on not just israel irs but arabs. a claes call for me. i give the israelis the m.o.m. m.o.m. -- m.o.p. >> netanyahu asked for it. >> three weeks ago i'd have said no. >> why now? >> because it's important and the president when he negotiated said bait and switch. the president was negotiating this, he said no place in a peaceful nuclear program. it's not because of what's in the cave, it's because of the cave. because it's inaccessible to anybody but us. fordal exists, still sentra fuses inside. giving israelis capacity gives the message to iranians, ed president says all options are on the table, that puts an exclamation point on that and it's a close call, mike, because it gives another country the ability to at least threaten to put us as war. >> yeah. >> but i am so concerned that all options are on the table is such an empty phrase now, that we've got to do something to impress upon the leadership. by the way, i'm not alone. there are other people whose judgment i trust, like dennis ross, who also thinks it's time to do that. >> but this is a decision you've just come to in the last -- >> reluctantly have come to, because, again, joe, because of the fear i have. look, are the iranians going to cheat on the program? yeah. cheat in a way that really matters in the first ten years? i don't think so. they don't need to. the program gets them to where they want to be. and so i have great fear that what we -- we haven't made a first down. we've punted. >> okay. >> general michael hayden. thank you very much for being on the show. >> thank you, general. >> thank you. still ahead, republican presidential candidate governor bobby jindal. we'll be right back. 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>> well, look, this is an important time for america. the idea of america is slipping away. $18 trillion of debt, our president's aabout to allow iran to become a nuclear power. planned parenthood, we have an opportunity to get america back. a unique opportunity. democrats gift wrapped this. running they're all of campaign. we have a choice to make. do we trust conservative principles or a man who loonly believes in himself. let's not waste this opportunity. >> i understand, but about trusting conservative principles, do you think that candidates in the republican party have lost their way along the way by sometimes perhaps not being completely genuine? about who they are? and trying to appeal to the base, to the point where they don't seem like they're telling the truth? >> bobby, most importantly, we've talked about it before. making promises that they just don't deliver on. you and i have both seen republicans go on tv and lie for 25 years saying, they're going to cut, taxes, cut spending, g to washington, it's owned by us as much as dells. >> exactly right. trump tapped into the political establishment and joe and mika, it's exactly right. for example, mcconnell, he said give us the majority. boehner, give us a mat jojorityt rid of obamacare, get rid of amnesty. mcconnell said can't defund planned parenthood. not fighting the president. the iran deal, agreed to a corker process, take as two-thirds vote to disapprove the deal rather than approve the deal. so i think that's exactly right. i think a lot of voters feel they're own choices are between honest socialist on the left and give bernie sanders credit. at least he's honest to say what he is and lying conservatives on the right, saying one thing, doing another. i think trump tapped into a genuine frustration with d.c., and the show has been amusing. here's the problem. the idea of trump is great. the reality is different. it's absurd. he has no policy depth. no substance. doesn't believe in limited government. he is not for making america great. he's for making donald trump great. that's not what we need right now. >> comment on other candidate, but not mr. trump. you're a soft-spoesken guy. exception from that yesterday. your faith infuses what you do in public life. why is dr. ben carson, never held elected office, doing so well in the polls? not just better than you but better than jeb bush, chris christie, john kasich, et cet a cetera? >> a genuine hunger for outsider. for a fire everybody in d.c. and i agree by the way. we need if term limits. not a professional political class thattive wills under different rules. the folks that are outsider, haven't been in d.c. are benefiting from the passion and frustration especially amongst conservative voters who feel things just don't change. >> what do you find appealing about dr. carson? >> i think he's a nice guy. a very intelligent man. obviously, a very accomplished surgeon. i would say this. obviously i think i'm the candidate best positioned and qualified to be president. i think one of the things that sets me apart, everybody talks, on the republican side, shrinking the size of the government economy. i'm the only one that's actually done it. shrink the size of the government. grow the american economy. everybody talks about it. i'm the only candidate. we've reduced our budget 36%. top ten private sector growth in our state in terms of jobs. so it's easy to talk about shink aring government. no other governor's done it. none of the senators done it. i'm the only one that's done it. >> governor bobby jirndal, than you. . i'm sure we'll hear from donald soon in a press conference. a lot to talk about, a lot of reporting to do, mark, about hillary clinton, a new cnn poll out this morning actually showing that hillary has no lead among women against ben carson, a doctor from maryland, who is beating her by five percentage points and also there is no gender gap with jeb bush. this is supposed to be what made a big difference, and you've got her actually running behind the two candidates and tied with trump. >> most immediate threats, bernie sand anders. right? in a normal race what would the front-runner do? go after her. like al gore. her campaign doesn't think they can go after bernie sanders. too popular on the left. >> worried the last couple days. >> top clinton aid visors went from brooklyn to d.c. and met with people on capitol hill, lobbyist the. have a lot of super delegates, we talked about before. a lot of institutional support in washington. k street and -- >> talked, but very negligence. >> nervous. >> what's the deal? they want to know. three things. one, if you're a democrat want to win the democrat, want a socialist as your general election candidate? two, putting her out on tv more. saw her do "ellen." see her do fallon. putting out a lot of hillary clinton. they like their product. people say their product is the problem, but they like their product. they want her out there talking a lot. and third thing is, to try to now not get off base on the e-mail thing. try not to joke about it, try not to criticize voters who care about it. they accept for the first time voters are interested in this. voters want to know more. she's going to keep talking about it and, of course, more and new questions about it. >> mike? >> i think michael steele, michael, did you have a question? >> it's just more just this general state of confusion about what the hillary clinton campaign is about. what are they really seeing out there? are they being honest with themselves and not recognizing that she has no pulse with the american lepeople. how do they get a pulse for her? >> the reality is, you know, bernie sanders threatens her in iowa and new hampshire. as of now, he doesn't threaten her anyplace else. i said earlier, joe biden likes to say, don't compare me to the voters. compare me to the alternative. what they think they have going for them is first she's got to beat bernie sanders and maybe joe biden and then she's got to beat a field, a big field of republican candidates. but most of whom have high unfavorables with the general election electorate. higher than she does right now. >> think about what mark just said, the argument they're making is that the other guys stink. not that she's great, but bernie sanders is a socialist. you don't want him. we're the ones who can beat the republicans. >> they're also making the argument she's great, the best prepared and people will see that over time. they're not -- they're not trashing her, but make no mistake, they are heavily reliant on that argument. >> when does the republican field start to thin out? >> i can't see anybody getting out. if you're anybody but carson and trump, you think the two of them are eventually going to fall away. that's what they think. there's 50% of the vote up for grabs. who knows what happens to that 50% if and when that happens. if you have a super pac like rick perry with millions of dollars, if you're chris christie and you think you're the best brawler, stay in. >> stay in through the first win or take all series of states. >> no nominee until papril. >> there's no evidence that these top two candidates are going to fade away and give votes to anybody else. the polls over the past month have shown very definite trend lines. these two gentlemen at the top, trump and carson, have consolidated 50%, and every holwe see, everybody else is in single digits. >> jon lovitz and michael dukakis on saturday night live. i can't believe i'm losing to these two guys. they look and they say in the end, their belief is it won't be trump, it won't be carson. and that means hope springs eternal for the 15 other people. >> yet it's only trump, carson, and jeb that are beating or tying hillary right now. where is the argument? where do they go? all right, still ahead, need further proof that it's the year of anti-politician? well, willie sits down with a truck driver who could be the next governor of mississippi. >> a long shot, but he's in it. >> in it to win it. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. 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(siri voice) ok, jack's boutique is nearby. alright, i've got another friend and his name is bryan adams. ok. this isn't going to work again. ♪"please forgive me, i know not what i do..."♪ introducing app-connect. the things you love on your phone, available on 11 volkswagen models. i want to talk about the elephant in the room, which in this case is a donkey. do you have anything you would like to tell us right now about your plans? >> yes. i think you should run for president again, and i'll be your vice president. >> it's the top of the hour. welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, everybody. richard haass. >> good morning. >> good morning. mike barnicle. did you see that interview? >> i did. i did. i watched it. >> he always gives it his all when he's talking to people. and this is hard. you can see it. >> well, it was an extremely rare sighting given our culture and our politics today. an actual human being. >> that's it. say no more. mark halpern joins us and michael steele in washington as well. we have a lot to get to. >> and so we're going to begin this morning with joe biden's extremely emotional personal interview with stephen colbert on the late show. biden admitted he has doubts whether he is ready to run for president after the recent loss of his son beau to brain cancer. and he was candid, recalling one of their final talks. >> he said, dad, i know how you much you love me. you have to promise me something. promise me you're going to be all right. because no matter what happens, dad, i'm going to be all right. promise me. this is a kid who i don't know what it was about him. he had this enormous sense of empathy, and i'm not making this up. i know i maybe sound like a father. i hope -- anyway, but it's true. >> it sounds like you love him, sir. >> oh, geez. i mean -- >> look. i don't think any man or woman should run for president unless, number one, they know exactly why they would want to be president, and two, they can look at the folks out there and say, i promise you you have my whole heart, my whole soul, my energy, and my passion to do this. and i would be lying if i said that i knew i was there. >> i went out to denver and landed at a military base and met a whole group of military families which is not unusual on a rope line about 100 yards from the aircraft. it was going great, and a guy in the back yells, major beau biden, bronze star, sir. served with him in iraq. and all of a sudden, i lost it. how could you -- i mean, that's not -- i shouldn't be saying this, but that -- >> you know. >> you can't do that. >> sir, i just want to say that i think that your experience and your example of suffering and service is something that would be sorely missed in the race. not that there aren't good people on both sides running, but i think we'd all be very happy if you did run, and if you don't, i know that your service to the country is something we should all salute. so thank you so much. thank you. >> yeah. like you said, a human being. that was about as real as it gets. >> and that's joe. >> that is him. that's why we want him to run. >> knowing, calling joe. he's, willie, he's an incredible guy. >> whatever your politics. whatever you're feeling about the obama administration, you ought to watch that full interview. remarkable, just a dad talking about his son. i don't know if there's anyone else on television who could have conducted it with more empathy than stephen colbert who lost his father and two brothers. ironically, the anniversary is today of the plane crash that took his father and two brothers 41 years ago. >> mike, you have known joe biden for a very long, long time. >> what you saw last night, we saw it earlier, in this atmosphere, in this political environment that we're all witnessing, he's a genuine human being. that is who he is. and who among us has not been damaged at some point in what life brings to the table? he represents that. he symbolizes it. i mean, he's a wonderful guy. he's just a wonderful guy. and you're absolutely right about stephen colbert and the tone and the tenor of the interview. stevphen colbert will go on to have many, many wonderful shows, no doubt about that. none as fine as last night. >> i agree. >> richard? your thoughts? >> the word you hear this whole season is authentic. that was beyond authentic. that was raw. and i'll leave it to others to decide the politics. you almost want to put it aside. it's so human and it's so pierces through the normal stuff that all of us and everybody else brings to what we saw. it was rare. at times it's riveting. it's almost slightly awkward because even privately, i don't know how many of us would bear that much, but to do that on national television, quite extraordinary. >> on a day like today, certainly makes you look at the whole field differently, and i would like to say a minute. >> i think a lot of democrats would, a lot of republicans would. there was a new cnn poll. you can look at the national poll showing joe biden now with 20%. i think more interestingly for democrats, digging into those polls, hillary clinton's lead against republicans has vanished. ben carson is actually well ahead. this is, we're showing you the democratic side. but in a head-to-head matchup, ben carson is now ahead of hillary clinton. jeb bush, within the margin of error, is ahead of hillary clinton. donald trump is tied with hillary clinton. and except for donald trump, the other two candidates actually are doing very well with women. hillary clinton has lost her advantage among women in general election matchups. >> amazing. >> all of this has happened over the past month. it has been an extraordinary change. everybody has been looking at donald trump, starting to look at ben carson. but as far as the actual race on the democratic side, extraordinary what has happened over the past three to four weeks, which could only leave you to believe that's why hillary clinton finally came out and did something she didn't want to do. >> right. >> and apologize. the question now as you look at the polls is whether she waited about a month too long. >> or just looked too much like she didn't want to do it. we still have mark and michael to get to. but for the first time all cycle, vermont senator bernie sanders is leading hillary clinton in polls out of both new hampshire and iowa. a new poll released yesterday shows sanders ahead of clinton 41% to 40% in iowa. it comes days after an nbc/marist poll showed him up nine points in new hampshire. here's how sanders reacted to the news yesterday. >> yes, i'm stunned. look, we have a message that i believe -- i believe from day one was going to resonate with the american people. and the message is there's something wrong in this country, in the great middle class continues to disappear. almost all income and wealth goes to the top 1%, when millions of families cannot afford to send their kids to college. so i thought that those issues would resonate. but did i think they would resonate as quickly as they have? the answer is no. >> mark halpern, a lot of people are stunned. not only around this table but in the democratic party as well. i want to go back to those numbers before in the head-to-head matchups with hillary clinton. ben carson, a guy who has got me scratching my head and i'm a republican. ben carson is ahead of hillary clinton 51% to 46%. i know it's september. but september ain't august. september ain't july. we're after labor day, and suddenly, we're in regular season here. jeb bush ahead of hillary clinton 49% to 47%. donald trump tied with hillary clinton, 48% to 48%. you look at the top two lines. you dig into those numbers on the poll, the most remarkable thing is that ben carson and jeb bush have erased any advantage that hillary clinton has among women. >> here's where i think we are with hillary clinton, right? you look at all those numbers. if she's going to be the nominee, if she's going to be president, she has to win ugly. and i think the question is, can she win ugly? bill clinton can win ugly. george w. bush could win ugly. can hillary clinton win this even as her own campaign concedes now, this is going to be tough and hard. >> why do you say she has to win ugly? what's happened? >> well, i mean, look. she's threatened in iowa and new hampshire. she's still got very good favorability with democrats, but with the general election electric, she's in a lot of trouble. joe biden likes to say don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. at this point, her path to the nomination, her path to the white house is not winning over a lot of new people, not selling herself anew, although she's going to do a lot of ellen like television interviews to do that. it's saying to people, do you want me or the socialist? do you want me or the billionaire developer? that is her path, and that's ugly. now, a lot of politicians know how to win ugly. but she's not done it. >> yeah. and willie, you look at these numbers. i will tell you this. she can't afford another month like the one that just passed where she's lost ten points in just about every poll. she's dropped in favorabilities. now, suddenly, even democratic donors are looking and saying, oh, my god. she's losing head-to-head matchups with ben carson? with low-energy jeb bush? you know, that she's tied with donald trump. >> go back to even memorial day, go back to this is the end of summer, go back to the begin of the summer and imagine a scenario where ben carson was defeating hillary clinton or donald trump who wasn't in the race, the reality show host, was tied with hillary clinton. it's remarkable, michael steele. what do you make of ben carson's rise? is he the kind of guy who can stick around for a while? boy, he's up there right with trump in some of these polls. >> i think show because he's got the outsider on him, he has the ability to resonate with evangelical christians within the base of the party, and i think that he's been able to pull together the kinds of coalitions right now that have sustained him. remember, if you look back over time, he has been consistently in the game. he's not faltered. his numbers have been steadily growing upwards. so the test for him now as we talk about the test for hillary winning ugly, is how he sustains and grows what he needs inside the base of the party to actually unseat a donald trump, for example, or prevent a jeb bush should donald trump falter, from gaining ground. the other thing to keep in mind with the hillary clinton numbers. i know everybody wants to jump up and down about whether she is, but she still has an electoral college advantage. democrats are sitting at 242 votes, republican s at 102, meaning they only have to win one state to get the white house. republicans need nine. this is a long campaign ahead of us. >> all right, the stage is set for wenlsz night's republican debate at the reagan library in simi valley. donald trump is center stage. carly fiorina has a podium in the 11-person primetime showdown. the rules were amended late last month. setting up fiorina to join the ten candidates from the first debate. the other difference, scott walker has moved over and ben carson is now positioned next to trump after his rise in the polls. five candidates will take part in the undercard debate about two hours earlier. they will not include former governor jim gilmore who failed to meet the 1% support in the two-month polling window. and donald trump says his remarks about carly fiorina's face was taken out of context. trump was quoted in "rolling stone" saying look at that face. would anyone vote for that? can you imagine that, that. yesterday, trump said he wasn't talking about her appearance. >> i'm talking ability her persona. she failed miserably at hewlett-packard. she then ran for the senate, she lost in a landslide. i'm talking abiliout her person. >> the latest national poll shows trump in first place and expanding his place among women. he takes 33% among women, the highest of any candidate and up 13 points from his skocore of 2 last time. and bobby jindal yesterday slammed head first into donald trump. he took nearly ten minutes of a national press club speech to blast the front-runner. >> i like the idea of donald trump. i like the idea of an outsider. i like the idea of somebody willing to say the things you're not supposed to say. i like the idea of somebody going after the d.c. political class. i like the idea of donald trump and i like the show, the donald trump act and show. it's a lot of fun, entertainment. but here's the problem. donald trump is not a serious candidate. he's rr a narcissist. he's an egomaniac. the only thing he believes in is himself. he's shallow. he has no understanding of policy. he's full of bluster. he has no substance. he lacks the intellectual curiosity to even learn. you can't argue policy with this guy. like all narcissists, donald trump is insecure and weak. he's afraid of being exposed. that's why he tells us always and constantly how big and strong and wealthy he is. he's never read the bible. the reason we know he's never read the bible, he's not in the bible. folks, it is time to get serious about making america great again. it is time for donald trump to take the ride down the elevator. it is time for us to tell him, donald, you are fired. >> donald is going to be very angry. >> that's not all. >> bobby suggested he's not in the bible. >> jindal also released this web ad comparing trump's winning streak with charlie sheen. >> we're leading in every single poll. >> i'm sorry, winning. >> but the polls have been through the roof, every one of them. >> winning. >> and kanye west has been so great. i would never say bad about him because he says such nice things about me. >> giant name comes through on the caller er i.d., and it's winning. >> winning in all the polls. >> winning. >> you make a choice to win and you win. >> i'm winning everywhere. >> wow, winning. >> i'm winning. i win here and i win there. now what? >> oh, my gosh. >> charlie sheen moment. >> for his part, donald trump tweeted, quote, bobby jindal did not make the debate stage and therefore i have never met him. i ownnly respond to speem who register more than 1% in the poll. i never thought he had a chance and i have been proven right. jindal tweeted back at trump saying we have met. you wrote a check. a fool and his money are soon parted. a fool and his dad's money are parted sooner. >> bobby jindal had this to say. >> this is like eighth grade. >> trump's comments about fiorina's face. >> i think it's pretty outrageous for him to be attacking anybody's appearance when he looks like he's got a squirrel sitting on his head. he should stop attacking other people's appearances. >> oh, my god. willie, this has gotten almost personal. >> governor jindal is all in. if you get a piece, a strategy other people have employed. rand paul tried it at the last debate on fox. if you get a piece of the donald trump magic, whatever that is, it gets you attention. he was just on "morning joe" for three minutes. >> maybe he's tried the trump vodka. >> what? >> that is something else. where did he get that? he just -- squirrel on his head. >> we know he's never read the bible because he's not in the bible. donald will be upset. >> but getting rid of all narcissists from politics, that would really clear the field. >> it really would clear the field. >> still ahead on "morning joe," form former cia and nsa director michael hayden weighs in on what changes should be make to the nuclear deal. >> and bill bratton and john miller join us as the nation marked 14 years since 9/11. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hey america, still not sure whether to stay or go on that business trip? ♪ should i stay or should i go well this fall stay with choice hotels two times and earn a free night. when it comes to business, you always have a choice. book now at the new choicehotels.com if ynow's the time to get your ducks in a row. to learn about medicare, and the options you have. you see, medicare doesn't cover everything - only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so if 65 is around the corner, think about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, they help cover some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. so don't wait. call to request your free decision guide. and gather the information now to help you choose a plan later. these types of plans let you pick any doctor or hospital that takes medicare patients. and there's a range of plans to choose from, depending on you needs and your budget. so if you're turning 65 soon, call now and get started. because the time to think about tomorrow...is today. go long. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn. because it gives me... zero heartburn! prilosec otc. the number 1 doctor-recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 9 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. ooh, i thinki saw dessert! but you just had a big lunch! wasnthat big steve... hey! come back here, steven stay strong! what's that? you want me to eat you? honey, he didn't say that! he did, very quietly... you can't hear from back there! don't fight your instincts. with each 150 calories or less, try our chocolatey brownies, tangy lemon bars and new creamy cheesecakes. fiber one. go on, have one! the drought is affecting at pg&e we've definitely put a focus on helping our agricultural customers through the drought. when they do an energy efficiency project and save that money they feel it right in their pocket book. it's exciting to help a customer with an energy efficiency project because not only are they saving energy but they are saving water. we have a lot of projects at pg&e that can help them with that and that's extremely important while we're in a drought. it's a win for the customer and it's a win for california. together, we're building a better california. principle of theture toff group. michael hayden. also, let's bring in from outside the 9/11 memorial, bill bratton and deputy police commissioner for intelligence and counterterrorism, john miller. let's begin with you, commissioner bratton. tell us about where we stand as a nation 14 years later. we have rudy giuliani on earlier saying the threat hasn't gone away. there has been no peace treaty to end this war. it continues unabated today. tell us how that makes your job every day more difficult. >> it does make it more difficult, certainly, that the threat is growing, not diminishing. threat from al qaeda, which pulled off the 9/11 attack successfully, unfortunately, still remains. but the more persistent threat and the growing threat to us now is isis or isil. and their ability using social media to inspire while they encourage people to come to syria to fight, they're also encouraging people living in this country to take up arms against the country. so the threat has changed. fairly dramatically over the last 18 months, and mayor giuliani is correct, that we won here in the resilience of new york city, that building behind me and the many assorted buildings around it are reflective of how great this country is, our ability to come back. but that threat is still there, and we'll be dealing with it for unfortunately probably generations to come. >> john miller, you've been focusing on this story for many, many years. you were one of the last reporters in a prior incarnation in your life to interview osama bin laden. today, every day, i assume, you look at all the intel reports that come across your desk at the nypd. where would you place the activity level today as compared to when you first came back to the nypd with commissioner bratton? >> i would say the activity level today, in terms of the pace, in terms of the cadence, is busier. if you just look at the period between june 2nd and june 29th, we had nine arrests from boston to north carolina, including half a dozen arrests in new york city and new jersey, of people who had various stages of plotting the beheading, named enemies of isis in manhattan. pressure cooker bombs focusing on the july 4th celebration in new york city. these pots are all interdicted. they're prevented through good intelligence, but the threat hasn't gone away. >> thaunchg nk you so much. bill bratton and john miller, thank you so much. would love to have you come into the studio and talk to us more about all you're doing for the city. general hayden, let's move on to the iran deal. yesterday, the democrats were celebrating that they got 41 senators to pass this deal. what are your thoughts, what are your concerns as it looks like this iran deal is moving forward? >> yeah, three baskets. the first is the deal itself, the part the president wants to emphasize, the 0-10 against the nuclear program. i'll admit, that's the best part of the packening. i can fill the rest of the air time complaining about parts of it, but there is some goodness in there. what i'm really worried about is the nuclear portfolio at ten-plus, because essentially, we have given the iranians a work program to get where it is they want to be, which is a nuclear state, always on the threshold of a nuclear weapon. and then the other basket i worry about are the immediate non-nuclear effects of this deal. so i wrote that what we need to do is yes, but, or no unless. in terms of looking at the deal. take a lot of steps now to push back against the iranians in non-nuclear ways in the middle east, and then frankly, i think we need to take a second look at what it is we think we have agreed to by executive agreement, not treaty, in 8, 10, and 15 years when the real limits come off the iranian program. >> we had yesterday or the day before, we had tim kaine on saying, you know, there have been a lot of things that have passed. a lot of things that presidents have done that were unpopular at the time. one of the things he said was nixon going to china. what would you say to the senator? >> he also mentioned the nuclear test ban treaty. which was equally unpopular when kennedy did it, but both ended up in thandz of the other political branch. our relationship is china is governed by the taiwan relations act passed by congress. and the nuclear test ban treaty is a treaty. so you brought the other political branch in. that's the only way you get sustaining power for an agreement inside the american system. >> the two president, kennedy and nixon, built a majority. >> they did what they had to do to get a majority to enact them. >> if you could be more specific on the nonnuclear threats that bother you, or the nonnuclear aspects of our attitude towards iran, what would it be? >> i would take the iranians on aggressively, particularly in syria, also in iraq. they'll continue their support to hamas and hezbollah. mike, let me give you a metaphor for the circumstance. we're do all this right now, right? and for the first time in years, we have gapped our carrier coverage in the persian gulf. that's almost inconceivable. >> what does that mean? >> it means we don't have an aircraft carrier anywhere in the region. >> why? >> great. thank you for asking. because the defense budget is where it is. and so one of the things i suggest is if you're going to go do this, one of the unavoidable costs of doing this is to make the dod budget bright and healthy again so we have the milkitary power to push back against the iranians. then i would double down on our allies in the region, not just the israelis, but the arabs. this was a close call for me. i give the israelis, the m.o.p., the massive ordinance penetration. >> you would? >> if you asked me three weeks ago, i would have said no. >> why now? >> well, because it's important. and the president when he negotiated, you said bait and switch. the president was negotiating this. he said it has no place in a peaceful nuclear program. it's not because of what's in the cave. it's because of the cave. because it's inaccessible to anybody but us. it still exists. there is still going to be centrifuges inside the mountain. i think given the israelis the capacity actually sends the right kind of message to the iranians when the president says all options are on the table, that really puts an exclamation point on that. then, mike, it's a close call because it gives another country the ability to at least threaten to put us at war. >> yeah. >> but i'm so concerned that all options are on the table is such an empty phrase now that we've got to do something to impress upon the leadership. >> big stuff. >> it is. by the way, i'm not alone. there are other people whose judgment i trust, like dennis ross, who also thinks it's time to do that. >> but this is a decision you have just come to in the last three weeks. >> reluctantly have come to, again, joe, because of the fear i have. look, are the iranians going to cheat on the program? yeah. are they going to cheat in a way that really matters in the first ten year snz i don't think so. they don't need to. the program gets them to where they want to be. so i have great fear that we haven't made a first down. we have punted. >> okay. >> general michael hayden, thank you very much for being on the show. >> thank you, general. >> thank you. coming up on "morning joe," we'll get a check on the markets as investors are on edge before the fed meets next week. plus, willie meets the truck driver who just could become the next governor of mississippi. keep it right here on "morning joe." everyone loves the picture i posted of you. at&t reminds you it can wait. they come into this iworld ugly and messy. ideas are frightening because they threaten what is known. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. woman: when a student understands a concept for the first time. man: when the students get it. man: their eyes get big, the lightbulb pops on. woman: "i got it, i think i got it!" they light up. it's like magic. woman: this is not just a job. woman: the rewards i get are... priceless. man: we help kids grow, and that's part of the rush of teaching. narrator: the california teachers association. educators who know quality public schools make a better california for all of us. educators who know quality public schools without the internet i would probably be like a c student. internet essentials from comcast has brought low-cost high speed internet into the homes of hundreds of thousands of low-income families. it lets students do homework and study at home. so far more than two million people across america have benefitted. internet essentials is going to transform the lives of families. i see myself as maybe an entrepreneur. internet essentials from comcast. helping to bridge the digital divide. donald trump was at the u.s. open here in new york this week for the big match between serena and venus williams. he looked like he was pretty deep in thought. i kept thinking to meself, i wonder what was going through his mind. >> this is utterly boring. i could beat serena with my eyes closed. i can see it now. here i am, playing serena. i'm a total pro. take that. you just lost the game. i'm the winner. >> i'm the winner. >> time now for business before the bell with brian sullivan. brian, the markets bouncing back a little bit. everybody is still kind of looking at that interest rate decision next week. what are markets going to do today? what the feeling on the street about the interest rates? if you're in the stock market and interest rates go up, is that going to hit you pretty hard? >> a lot of stuff there, joe. i'm going to try to get through it. your first point is what's going to happen today? the dow indthing perhaps a slight drop. i wouldn't expect a huge shift ahead of the thursday interest rate decision, to your point. just a reminder, on thursday, the federal reserve will meet. generally it's wednesday. it's pushed back a day. it could be the first interest rate increase we have seen in nine years. a 40% chance we're going to get one in september wrfrb could happen in october or december. either way, it's coming. the other question about what's going to happen to the stock market when it happens. it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. i don't know. you know, that's huge question. i probably wouldn't be doing this, i probably would be interviewing myself if i knew that answer. i will say this, though. interest rate increases are not necessarily doomed to the stock market. in 1994, the federal reserve aggressively raised rates and all that happened in 1995 is that the dow rose 33%. second biggest gain in 40 years. anybody who says higher interest rates are a bad thing, number one, it's not true. number two, by the way, higher interest rates if they happen are probably because things are getting better and we need to normalize. the big story to me this morning, goldman sachs putting out a call on oil. they say this is not their base case, but given the oversupply in the world, oil could fall to $20 a barrel. >> wow. >> $20. >> okay. >> you know what that would do to oil jobs, the shale boom? >> yeah. >> saudi arabia, which needs $90 to fund their social programs. they issued debt the first time in years a couple weeks ago. >> devastating for russia. devastating for venezuela. devastating for saudi arabia. devastating for so many countries. devastating for people who have stocks in exon, chevron. >> but a big actual in real cash value pay raise for millions of workers here in this country, paying less for gasoline every day. >> brian sullivan, thank you. >> we have to go now. >> bye-bye. >> sorry. now to what's going on with the mississippi governor's race, which may take the cake for the biggest surprise so far in this political season. willie has for us the story of the truck driver who won his race without running a campaign. really? >> robert gray loves his home state. he knows the issues and he thinks he can do better than the sitting governor so he registered as a candidate kind of on a whim and forgot about it. imagine his surprise on election night. >> a mystery man revealed tonight. the democratic nominee for governor. >> robert gray didn't get around to voting for himself on election day. but 150,000 other people did. >> i just wouldn't have know who robert gray was. >> what happened in the primary was shocking to a lot of people. >> insane or embarrassing. one of the two. >> political experts in mississippi were stumped when the long-haul trucker who ran no campaign to speak of which who was essentially unknown outside his own home, was elected as the democratic nominee to be governor. >> mr. gray won the democratic nomination, not because of anything he did, in fact, he says publicly, he did nothing. >> of course, he had no website, no facebook page, nothing. >> spent how much in this race? >> maybe $50, $60. >> $50, $60 on the whole campaign. >> right. >> no signs, no bumper stickers. >> no anything. >> his run for nomination was so low-key, he forgot the mention it to his mother. >> the first time she learned is when she walked in and saw your name on the ballot. >> i don't know if she thought it was really me. >> i called him and said, robert, you are running for governor? >> i said no, he would have told us. >> some think it was because gray's name was first on the ballot. others say it's because he has a traditional man's name, and other, a conspiracy theory that said mississippi republicans put him up to it. >> i deny that. >> no one from the republican party approached you and tried to push you into the race. >> the only people who knew i was running were the people when i went in to qualify. >> it's impossible, unless mr. gray has come up with some genius of a political strategy where you can do nothing, spend nothing, go nowhere, and take 79 counties in a three-wi primary. unless he's got some sort of genius strategy for that, something else was going on. >> i guess -- >> even with his man of the people message, gray is a long shot against incumbent governor phil bryant. >> he's got a record that people in mississippi appreciate, and he's got a personality and policies that they can identify with. >> they want a governor that wants to help, wants to do good. that wants to make the best of what's available. >> if robert doesn't move into the governor's mansion, he'll return to his home on the road. >> does your rig have a name? >> i guess i call it old faithful. >> what do they call you? >> silent knight. >> are you ready to give it up to be governor? >> yeah, i'm ready to do the job as governor. >> by the way, mississippi governor phil bryant has wished robert luck, and he'll need it. robert has raised a little over $2,000 since he won the nomination. governor bryant's campaign says it has more than $2.8 million cash on hand. >> wow. >> not even close. >> can you believe that? a fun story. >> i want an absentee ballot. >> good lord. up next, moments away from the beginning of the ceremonies at ground zero. "morning joe" will be right back. we've got trouble in tummy town. peptocopter! ♪ when cold cuts give your belly thunder, pink relief is the first responder, so you can be a business boy wonder! ♪ fix stomach trouble fast with pepto. when it comes to quitting cigarettes, why does it feel like all or nothing? would you expect me to lose 25 pounds overnight? i'm taking it one cigarette at a time. that's how zonnic helps me quit. zonnic nicotine gum. every victory counts. ♪ ♪ isn't it beautiful when things just come together? build a beautiful website with squarespace. every auto insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. those who have served our nation. have earned the very best service in return. ♪ usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. worst day of my life. worst day in the life of the history of the city, and maybe the greatest day because of all the heroism and terrific acts of kindness and the unbelievable things people did to save each other. >> we came together as americans. we put aside petty differences. we weren't republicans or democrats. we weren't black or white, young or old. we were americans. and one of the most moving things to me was to see how we all had that sense of identity as americans first and then whatever seems to superficially divide us behind that. we have to recapture that. >> george pataki and former new york city mayor rudy giuliani on "morning joe" this morning, looking back, remembering. you're right now looking at live pictures of ground zero where nearly 3,000 americans lost their lives 14 years ago today. the commemoration of that today begins in just a moment when president obama and the first lady lead a moment of silence at the white house marking the first time the first moment when the first plane struck the north tower. and we'll be showing you several scenes during that moment of silence from washington, d.c. to shanksville, pennsylvania, to new york city. later, at 9:30 a.m., secretary of defense ashton carter and vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff general paul silva will host a remembrance ceremony at the pentagon to remember those killed there in 2001 in the first terrorist attack. it was a moment that really changed everything for so many people. >> the world really did stand still. we were all disoriented from what we saw when we saw the second plane go in to the second twin tower. and the united states and its leaders have been disoriented ever since. we're still grappling 14 years later. with how to respond to this terror threat. one president saw his presidency go down for being too aggressive. this current president being criticized roundly from many quarters for not doing enough. and 14 years later, we still have no answers. >> and from the politics of it, and the historic nature of where we go forward and has it become more complicated, are we safer, are we not? to the humanity of the moment, where so many people rose up. so many people put themselves aside and rushed toward ground zero in new york city. the pentagon, and those onboard that plane that went down in shanksville, who put themselves aside. >> they did. >> it was actually the first strike back. it was america's first strike back against the terrorists. and americans came together. >> you see president obama and the first lady walking out, getting ready to commemorate the moment, to mark that moment of silence, which begins at 4600, right now. [ taps playing ] [ taps playing ] >> the president, the first lady, going back into the white house. after commemorating the terrible attacks that happened 14 year s ago, mike. i saw the shot of shanksville, remember the story of todd beamer and the other people who said let's roll and stopped another plane from coming in and crashing into the white house or the capitol. but in shanksville, i couldn't help remembering a straight line from those heroes to those on the french train just a few weeks ago that said let's go. go, running towards guns. >> and the distance and time in the last 14 years from that day to this day, i think, too many americans unfortunately have allowed what happened on september 11th to recede into their memories and to think, well, this could never happen again. but it's a tribute to the people of many different agencies, many different police agencies, government agencies, who have worked endlessly and tirelessly to help prevent another terrorist attack on our soil. >> and we're forever thankful for the men and women and the police department and the nypd, also the fire department, and also all the men and women who have given their lives over the last 14 years in uniform. >> the commemoration of this day is hard but fitting, as they read every name who was lost on that day. we'll be right back. we sent two women into a real guys night out to see if they could find the guy who uses just for men. it's me. no way. i had no clue. just for men gives you a natural gray-free look in just 5 minutes. it looks really good. great looking hair made easy. just for men. how much prot18%?does your dog food have? 20? nutrient-dense purina one true instinct with real salmon and tuna has 30% protein. support your active dog's whole body health with purina one. we now bring you an msnbc living history event, coverage from nbc's "today" show the day it unfolded 14 years ago today. here now, the msnbc special, as it happened. >> we have a breaking news story to tell you about. apparently, a plane has just crashed into the world trade center here in new york city. it

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