Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20150515

>> i remember sitting down there and just looking to everybody playing. i just wished i could play here, right here, and not have to go. it was like a city of its own. it was a whole little town. you had everything going on. it was home. >> the king of the blues, b.b. king, has died. raised in the mississippi delta. it attracted fans of all musical genres. he was nope for his signature guitar that he rescued when the dance hall burned down legend has it started by two men fighting over a woman and her name of course lucille. he played some 330 shows a year for the better part of four decades. and he collaborated with legends from eric clapton to u2. king was abducted into the rock and roll hall of fame in 1987 he received the presidential medal of dream from george w. bush and medical officials say he died of complications from dementia. b.b. king was 89 years old. and gene, i was saying to you, one year i went out to the grammys and met a lot of punks but he was such a great man. >> he had serious health problem for many years. diabetes and then later dementia. but never be forgotten. >> never. and produce the the blues to mainstream music. but we have a lot of news today including some breaking news from nepal. >> yeah after that second earthquake there we do have news that the u.s. air force is now on the ground inspecting what is now confirmed to be the wreckage from that u.s. military helicopter that vanished three days ago. the crash was 8 miles north from where they were headed tuesday. they were delivering humanitarian aid to quake victims at the time. the huey was reportedly piloted by chris norgren. this was his second overseas deploy deployment deployment. the family of mark johnson of florida also says he was on board. they were hoping for the best that the chopper may have landed in a region out of radio range, but we now have confirmation that it did indeed crash. that is very sad news of course for the family members and the people on that chopper. now, abc news chief anchor george stephanopoulos will not be moderating a republican presidential debate after acknowledging that he gave $75,000 in donations to the clinton foundation from 2012 through 2014. stephanopoulos who served as a top adviser to president bill clinton is now apologizing for failing to disclose the contributions, particularly when he grilled the author of a recent book that questioned overlap between foreign donations to bill clinton's initiative and favors by hillary clinton's state department. >> you write that the pattern of behavior is troubling enough to warrant further investigation by law enforcement officers. >> correct. >> do you have any evidence that a crime may have been committed? >> certainly i think it warrants investigation. what that investigation will reveal, we'll see. she was the one that was meeting with lavrov. there were four senior congressmen on national security issues that raised concerns about this this issue. >> but wait a second. there were nine different agencies approved it. doesn't that suggest that that was because there was no national security concern not because of some nefarious influence on clintons? i still haven't heard any direct evidence. as you know the clinton campaign says you haven't produced a shred shred of evidence. we've done investigative work here at abc new, found no proof of any direct action. and an independent expert wrote there is no smoking gun, no evidence that she changeded a policy based on donations to the foundation. no smoking gun. >> jeremy, you wrote a story front page "new york times" this morning. what did you find in your reporting? >> well, i think there are reasonable limits to going into a journalist's background when they have had prior lives in politics. we're not going after diane sawyer for working for richard nixon, we're not going after tim russert for working for mario cuomo. however i do not think there is a modern parallel for this, the face of the most watched news network in the country to have given $75,000 to an entity that bears the name of a person who is running for president. and that is -- >> and then that interview. by the way this isn't even a side issue. this is the main issue at least on the democratic side of the 2016 race. this is the issue that everybody has been talking about. "new york times," "washington post," "wall street journal," bloomberg, nbc. i mean this issue. the clinton foundation and people who paid to play. >> exactly. and the problem is the foundation has already -- >> allegedly paid to play. go ahead. >> -- has already been wrapped up in so much versecontroversy. but the appearance is that he was trying to buy access, he was trying to buy an interview. and if you are the public face of a news network that is something that my bosses certainly would not tolerate. >> al hunt he did say he wasn't going to moderate the gop debate. >> i'm not going to pitch for the washington nationals against the yankees next week either. >> what does that mean? >> that thatmeans he wasn't going to moderate the debate anyway. my wife gave $250 to the haiti relief fund in 2010 after that earthquake and you recall the context thing was that bush and clinton had appealed for it. i don't think $250 to the haiti clinton relief fund is really a problem. that was also a time when barack obama was running for re-election. the problem what george did was the size, 75 grand is a lot of money at least to most of us at this will table. it was done in 2000 and continued through 2013 2014 when the foundation was named after her. and it just is a terrible appearance when you go on the air and interview someone like that author. >> before we all jump in let's get to the statements. let's hear from stephanopoulos himself. he writes in hipd sight i should have taken the extra step of personally disclosing my donations to my employer and viewers on air during the recent news stories about the foundation. i apologize. abc news is backing help saying he's apologized for the omission. we stand behind him. and the network added we accept his apology. just a few weeks ago, he sat down with jon stewart on "the daily show" where he discussed the potential conflicts of interest surrounding donations to the clinton found days without mentioning his own. >> i read the book that this is based on.days without mentioning his own. >> i read the book that this is based on. this is a tough one because when you actually look closely at it, he even says there is no evidence of any direct action taken on behalf of the donors, but everybody also knows who knows donors give that money and president clinton or someone, they get a picture with him, there a hope that that will lead to something and that's what you have to be careful of. >> i don't understand this idea, the entire system appears to be shrouded in that type of quid pro quo or the appearance. >> even if you don't get an action, what you get is access and you get the influence that comes with access and that has to shape the thinking of politicians. >> that's exactly the issue. >> and that is the issue. >> the you issue as we saw the interview. look, you can't do -- i mean there are no $75,000 donations that have slipped my mind that i have just of-when i'm talking about the subject on television. >> and you don't know whether you gave 50 or 75. >> exactly. >> rounding up or something like that. >> just disclosed the wrong amount at first. >> he has spent so many years at abc trying to get rid of this sort of atmosphere, this aura that he was a clinton retainer. >> and he has gun sodone so successfully. i don't think you can look at georgeoff the last few years and say there was a partisan went to his interviewing or anchoring. he didn't make the -- >> don't say that though, katty, to barack obama's campaign in 2008. back in 2008, during the primary battle between barack obama and hillary clinton, stephanopoulos faced strong criticism and had a lot of questions asked about -- questions he asked about then candidate barack obama in a debate moderated by abc news. >> do you think reverend wright loves america as much as you do? and if you get the nomination, what will you do when those sermons are played on television again and again and again? >> the notion that somehow that the american people are going to be distracted once again by comments not made by me, but somebody who is associated with it, that i have disowned, i think doesn't give the american people enough credit. >> a gentleman named william ayers, he was part of the weather underground in the 1970s, they bombed the pint gonegone pentagon, capitol and other buildings. he never apologized and was quoted saying i don't regret setting bombs i feel we didn't do enough. a meeting for your campaign was held and your campaign says you're friendly. can you explain that relationship for the voters and explain to democrats why it won't be a problem? >> george, but this is an example of what i'm talking about. this is a guy who lives in my neighborhood who is a professor of english in chicago who i know and who i have not received some official endorsement the from. the notion that somehow -- >> so a "washington post" article noted this, the abc moderate ares found themselves under fire for focusing on campaign gaffes. a blogger called the debate asinine asinine. television critic called the performance, quote despicable. the philadelphia "daily news" said the moderators disgraced the american voters and in fact even disgraced democracy itself. he went on to say mark me down as undecided. >> exactly. >> this isn't just a republican thing. we heard this from barack obama's team throughout 2008. and by the way, i'm sorry, there is a much bigger question to ask. tim russert worked for a senator and a governor. tim russert wasn't the enforcer for a president and a presidential campaign. i think the bigger question is why did george stephanopoulos get the job in the first place. that's what conservatives have been asking all of these years. and you're right, he played exactly into their worst suspicions. >> why conservatives ask that question, as i said earlier, he worked very hard to demonstrate over the years that no, no no i'm a straight news man, i can be a straight news man. but here's the thing. in his statement, he said in hindsight i should have disclosed. everyone will now look in hindsight hindsight at his work over that period of time and look at interviews like that one and tea bait debates like that and say ah-ha. >> and what's interesting is whether if you asked republicans, they would say they feel they have been treated as unfairly by stephanopoulos as the obama campaign feels it was treated in 2008. >> there was a long list of conservative grievances against stephanopoulos. and the one that still comes up today like an open wound is the contraception line of questioning from the 2012 debate in new hampshire where republicans believe that he originated the war on women. now, i think that's a little bit conspiratorial, i don't blame george stephanopoulos for that. but if you look at that debate, it still leaves such a stinging mark with republicans. and when i was reporting this story, i heard that actually there was an effort by reince priebus and the rnc to block george from moderating any of the republican debates. >> reince priebus our officer reached out to him and he said we were never going to let him do the debate anyway. that's your washington nationals joke. >> i knew tim russert and he totally shed any partisan -- i mean the charge wasn't even made. he was an equal opportunity harasser. >> you yeah. the thing is the charge was that he went after hillary clinton too tough. >> hillary clinton, dan burton dick cheney. he was one tough interrogator. but very fair across both ways. >> and tim always said 245 that his goal was to be everybody's worst nightmare when he sat down in front of him. it's what you have to do. >> and there was something called the russert primary. which meant whether you're a republican, democrat conservative, liberal, youed that to pass being quizzed by tim. >> it's terribly difficult to go from having been in politics to being in objective journalism. and we see it understandable far more the other way around. we see journalists going and joining politics or joining administrations. >> well -- >> seems to be easier to go through that door than come back the other way. >> you look at my hate mail. most of it for most of my time on tv has come from republicans. and it's come from republicans because we went after hillary clinton and i was the sdefldevil. we've been calling jeb bush an out, marco rubio looked like five years ago a student government. i mean, you've got to go after both sides. >> i'm glad to say that i get totally nonpartisan hate mail. >> that's good. >> equal opportunity hate mail. >> that's good. i retweet people and they're like please don't ever did that again because i get it from the left aptsd the left and the right. >> most hateful come from those who'd logically aligned with them. >> okay. somebody else who has been getting hate mail this week,i'dlogically aligned with them. >> okay. somebody else who has been getting hate mail this week, pretty rough for jeb bush. his answer about one of his older brother's biggest foreign policy decisions changed once again yesterday. nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell reports for us. >> reporter: in arizona, jeb bush tried to clean up a political mess of his own making. >> knowing what we know know, what would you have done i would have not engaged i would not have gone into iraq. >> reporter: but that's a huge flip from what he said on monday. >> knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have. and so would have hillary clinton just to remind everybody. >> reporter: saying he had misinterpreted the question, bush tried again tuesday with radio host sean hannity. >> so in other words, in 20/20 hindsight you would make a different decision? >> yeah, don't know what it would be, but mistakes were made. >> reporter: republican rivals seized. >> knowing what we know now would you have authorized the invasion of iraq is this. >> of course not. >> i don't think you can honestly say that if we knew then there was no wmd, that the country should have gone to war. >> reporter: fair or not, he is taking heat for his brother's policies. bush admits he is reluctant to criticize the former president even when he disagrees. after a shaky week where bush tried to choose his words carefully, he turned heads again when he said this. >> i'm running for president in 2016. >> reporter: but wait, bush not ready to formally launch a campaign, tried to clarify by being less definitive. >> are you running for president? >> i'm seriously considering it. thank you, guys. >> bush added that he hesitated to say the war was a mistake because you he didn't want to diminish the service of veterans and his families adding that their sacrifices were in fact worth it. >> al hunt, five time as. fifth time is a charm. i wish i get five chances on every math problem i had in high school. this is a guy that is supposed to be the competent republican. took him five times to get it right. >> joe, i think it reflects two things. first of all, he has not really faced voters in 13 years. he is rusty. even bill clinton if you recall eight year ago was rusty when he tried to come back to help hillary. but there is an endeeper problem. i think he fundamentally believes if his brother's national security policies. if you look at that chicago speech, he said i'm my own man, but he didn't criticize a single thing his brother did and all of his advisers are basically george w. bush people. it would be okay if he was embracing the george h.w. bush foreign policy, but this one is a disaster. >> part of jeb bush's appeal is that he seems consistent even on policies that are not necessarily popular. so when it comes to immigration reform and when it comes to education, the two things that he's been attacked for by conservatives, he hasn't rode back. he said this is what i believe. we have to epopen up the party i believe what we've done on education in florida is the right thing even if it meant we did some federal policies. his rowing back on this iraq stuff erodes that reputation of being a straight talker. >> and to follow up, gene, on what al said, the most disturbing thing to me is not the gaffe the first four times, it's that the "washington post" reported that when he was talking to the fundraisers, he was asked who his top adviser would be in the middle east and he picked the guy with all due respect who would be last on my list. which is george w. bush. and by the way, last on most republicans' lists. last on most americans' list. and he's really saying that the guy that took us into iraq is going to be the guy that he'll be listening to the most when he's president? thanks but no thanks. >> isn't the real peelappeal of jeb bush is that he's the grown up that can beat hillary clinton and isn't that now in question? >> some of the people around him think that he runs his own campaign a little bit too much. >> well i don't know who ran this week but whoever it is they should be sent on a vacation to the south of france. which by the way that's where mika is. she'll come in later this morning. still ahead, with the threat of isis looming large, he probably can do without all the drones zipping ash the white house. jeh johnson will join us on set. plus more on abc's top news man cutting checks to the clinton foundation without disclosing it, bob woodward joins us to tackle the big questions surrounding influence and perception. hey america, still not sure whether to stay or go to your people? ♪ well this summer, stay with choice hotels twice and get a $50 gift card you can use for just about anything. go you always have a choice. book now at choicehotels.com wish your skin could bounce back as quickly as it used to? introducing neutrogena hydro boost water gel. instantly quenches skin to keep it supple and hydrated day after day. formulated with hydrating hyaluronic acid which retains up to 1000 times its 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negligence in part for failing to have that safety system this place already. and over on capitol hill, it doesn't appear that heated exchanges over amtrak funding are limited to congressional hearings. one the reporter asked house speaker john boehner if republicans were to blame for a lack of fnding. here's his response. >> are you really going to ask? such a stupid question? they started this yesterday. it's all about funding. well obviously it's not about funding. the train was going twice the speed limit. adequate funds were there. no money has been cut from rail safety. and the house passed a bhil earlier this spring to reauthorize amtrak and a lot of these programs. and it's hard for me to imagine that people take the bait on some of the nonsense that gets spewed around here. >> let's bring in nbc news correspondent who covers capitol hill, luke russert. luke heated day in the hearings and also right there with speaker boehner. >> indeed. and it gets to this question about whether or not amtrak is underfunded and specifically the safety priorities amtrak says it needs. and like everything on capitol hill, joe, it's a lot more complicated than just the blab address white argument that has emerged, which republicans oppose safety, democrats want to fund safety. there was an accident in 2008 and that caused congress to try to make a lot of changes to amtrak including trying to make this positive train control system go out throughout the country in terms of the track. was it underfunded because of the gop? that's what some people will claim. i think it's somewhat of a far argument because remember, democrats were in power in 2010, 2011. could have easily funded this thing all the way through if they wanted to. but it is fair to say that amtrak has been a political football on capitol hill and specifically a target of republican cuts for some time. in this latest round of funding where you saw the $250 million cut literally 12 hours before the crash, that's very complicated because in march, as you remember on capitol hill an authorization was passed from the house transportation committee to the floor 316 votes that had no cuts. that in fact would have taken the profitability of the northeast corridor, put it back in the theeftnortheast corridor. that did not pass through the senate. probably won't become law -- >> that passed the house but not the senate. how did the conservative house pass it but not -- >> it was held up in the senate. we don't know. but what is fascinating is that that bill doesn't have any cuts. it was a bipartisan bill. it puts the money from the northeast corridor back into the northeast corridor and ostensibly you would think that would be the bill. when the appropriations committee moved forward on these cut, they did it because they had on get it under the cap. all back to the sequester. >> obviously i'm certainly not connecting anything to republican funding or republican cuts. but -- because the guy was going too fast. and you could handle this easily by having two people up front instead of one. but republicans have always been -- had an adversarial relationship with amtrak funding going back to when i was there and even before. >> it may have something to do what states use trains heavily and what states don't. blue and red and that's the way it works. and someone who has a personal stake in this because i live on the acela and why in the most heavily populated part of the country can't we have a faster, safer train system? that's the larger yes and i don't know theyes and i don't know the answer. >> and as we've been saying, this isn't about subsidizing amtrak it's actually about our economy. it's about building up our infrastructure. i do think republicans are starting at least republicans i talked to are starting to understand you just conditions keep cutting infrastructure funding. and remain a first rate world power. >> richard haass had these numbers the other day. chi in spends 9% of its gdp on infrastructure india 8%. america spends 2%. when interest rates are super low, as they are at the moment, this is precisely the moment to start borrowing for infrastructure spending because we know whether they are republican or democrat, every economist says this is a growth and job provider. >> and when gas prices are so low, this is exactly the time to increase the gasoline tax and other user fees. >> that won't happen. >> well, ronald reagan was the champion of user fees. >> barack obama was asked that question and punted. as would most presidents. but also richard haass showed over the next five years this could cost us 1% in our gdp. this is a matter of economic -- >> we only put a billion into amtrak. uk, of 0 million people, $8 billion a year. >> luke, thank you so much. appreciate it. also thank you for "way too early" this week. >> enjoy it. for the month. it's been great. and i'm back next week. get up early. >> you're the iron man. cal ripken of early morning tv. coming up next, we all knew george stephanopoulos had a long standing relationship with the clintons. what we didn't know is that he gave big to their foundation at the same time he was grilling critics on tv. you know our new rope has actually passed all the tests. we're ready to start with production. ok, are you doing test markets like last time? uh, no we're going to roll out globally. ok. we'll start working on some financing options right away. thanks, joe. oh, yeah. it's a game-changer for the rock-climbing industry. this is one strong rope! huh joe? oh, yeah it's incredible! how you doing team? jeff you good? [jeff] i think i dropped my keys. 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>> at least disclose it. >> the key is the didsclosure. >> you're giving the opportunity for the republican candidates to lay in on you. >> especially in an april interview of the author where he just raked him over the coals. with us now, eric wimple. >> eric, you write in the "washington post" about this donation disclosure issue snowballing from abc news. withdrawal from the debate gives the anchors long time critics an opening if receive mopstephanopoulos is conceding that his donation could well deprive viewers, doesn't it stand to reason that any other involvement in the coverage would also deprive viewers? now that he's retreated, you write how does he advance. >> yeah we used to say as lawyers if you can't trust one part of a witness' testimony, you can't really trust any of their testimony. i'm not saying that about george, but that's the logical question you ask. >> if abc news' stance is that we stand behind him, he's good to go, why would he say i'm withdrawing from the debate. reince priebus says he wasn't going to do it anyway. pitching in the major leagues, good analogy. the point is that even making this minor sort of retreat creates a problem of appearance for him on top of another problem of appearance on top of another problem of substance. so i don't know. i think he's in a real vice right now. >> this is such a small bet that we all live in. a lot of people don't want to say it publicly because we all have a lot of friends over at abc. love a lot of people that run abc over there. but the question that nobody would say on air is they were stunned. and so of course i'll say it they were stunned how quickly abc came out and immediately said we stand behind george. a big difference than what nbc, who was obviously a competitor with abc put that up there right now, big difference from how nbc treated the brian williams situation. >> right. nbc, we need to look into this, let's do a huge inquest. and find out how many of these things were -- they were a little more wobbly. i think they knew a lot more about the history. >> were you surprised how quickly they came to his defense? >> no, not really. he is their chief anchor. he's the franchise. he is abc news. so if all you have is one instance i think that they can at least in their own mentality they're thinking we can make this. >> so your hunch is that abc sticks by him if all that happened is what we know up-to-date. >> right. i doubt that they have had a chance to do any degree of inquiry. perhaps they asked george did you do anything else, look at your tax records and many he just told them no, this is it. but then that's troublesome because at first he said i've only done $50,000, now $75,000. the story changed throughout the day. they had to amend their disclosure. which was embarrassing too. because at first it looked as though he had only given disclosures in 2013 and 2014 which is between the time that hillary clinton resigned from secretary of state and the time she declared her candidacy for president. it was a lousy argument to begin with. but still now that you go back to 2012, it's even worse. >> jeremy, in your reporting for the front page "times" story today, did you get any comment from abc news on why they moved so quickly? >> yeah my colleague actually spoke to george yesterday and abc news and we both came away from the experience pretty start he willed at how quickly they said, nope, he didn't do anything wrong, he's apologize aed,a daed aed, he said of discussion. going back to what eric was saying this is really a corporate branding protection exercise. he's their hat lawyer, their chuck todd, their brian williams all wrapped into one and this was a conscious decision on their part to at that time kind of a gravitas all away from the news anchor and invest all of this in grnlgeorge and they can't afford to leave him twisting in the wind. >> every interview he gives now will be so carefully watched. some prepublicans say they won't go on. i'd be scared if i'm a democrat because he'll have to be tougher than anybody. >> you're 100% right. and i think that is a real problem when people do that. that is the sort of unmentioned, the unnoticed problem with conflicts of interest which is that the anchor goes out and proves that they can be tough on democrats or the other party and foe goes overboard and commits unfairness. >> does the public notice this as much as we are talking about it? >> i think so. look, there is certainly a bubble aspect of will this. we're all talking about this media stuff. but, yes, i think that when george stephanopoulos goes on with a major figure and talks about, you know the "clinton cash" book or whatever i could sense that he was going after peter schweizer. at the time, it looked like legitimate journalism. in retrospect it looks like activism. >> and it is trending on twitter. i was laughing when you said about the problems going overboard, republicans have accused me of doing that for years and my response always is if i were a referee refereeing the university of alabama, you know, a team that i'm a big fan of, alabama fans would hate me because on every close call you feel compelled to do exactly what you said you're doing and then at the some point that becomes unfair. >> it's a real challenge for him. boy, a real challenge for abc because you're right, they put all their chips on one person. eric, thank you so much for being with us. coming up next, saudi arabia says it may have to go nuclear. the exact thing the white house was hoping to avoid through its deal with iran. david ignatius has fresh reporting. out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? 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[ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ ♪ of course whether we reach a nuclear deal or not the with iran, we'll still face a range of threats across the region including destabilizing activities as well as threat from terrorist groups. i want to be clear the purpose of security cooperation is not to perpetuate any long term confrontation with iran or even to marginalize iran. none of our nations have an interest in an open ended conflict with iran. we welcome an iran that plays a responsible role in the region. one that takes concrete practical steps to build trust and resolve its differences with its neighbors by peaceful means. president obama tried to reassure half a dozen gulf leaders that the united states remains -- among sunni arab states. a contrast that you you wrote about between how netanyahu has handled this and how -- >> it's a very unusual situation. israeli leader is opposed to u.s. policy goes to congress and says absolutely not. vote it down. the arabs, who on which are the problem in the middle east equation for us, come to washington, meet with the president, hold this summit meeting at camp david and the atmosphere coming out of it is surprisingly cordial. it's a symbolism. mr. president we won't oppose this iran deal so long as it delivers what you said and the u.s. assures them. >> and you know this very well there has been a simmering anger or at least discontent from sunni arab leaders throughout the course of the obama presidency, hasn't there. >> there has been. it's still there. this event which i think wet better than people thought it might, it doesn't cure that, there is still a show me aspect here that arabs fear obama is a weak leader who will not the stand up to iran in a crunch. but for the moment, they have agreed to act like ally, act like partner. and it's important for obama as he heads in to the end game with iran. >> and that's what they really wanted at the white house, for the sunni leaders to come away and not oppose these negotiations in the deal with iran, but my sense i don't know what you're hearing from these sunni leaders, their greater concern is not just iran would become nuclear, it's a iran that would become normalized. >> i think they fear a big powerful hegemonic iran and there is no way that the u.s. can really reassure them on that. one thing that is interesting about this, this president has done very little of a personal camp caved style diplomacy. in this case it seems to have worked. i'm told the morning was stiff they kind of sat there talked about iran and carried brief dom. and after lunch they relaxed and just talked as a group of leaders. they're all about the same age. and had a much more productive session. so i thought that was something that obama would profit from doing more of. >> maybe get some members of congress up there too. >> david, you note that what they wanted was a commitment from him that he would stand up to iranian proxies. what can he do? how does that translate? >> first they got the pledges that if they're actually attacked, if the gulf states are attacked, the u.s. would l. come to their against. but that's been on the books for a listening tile. in terms of syria and standing up to iran's candidate if n. effect, assad, they got a reiteration that the u.s. thinks assad must go. there are a lot of things cooking in the background some diplomacy that might involve the russian, possibility of a no-fly zone in the north the president still isn't there but something very much being discussed. so a lot of things on the way. not there yet. >> was a warning given of sunni state like sawed decide arabia trying to develop a nuclear weapon if iran goes nuclear? >> for the moment, everybody is papering over that question of whether the sun if ini states will try to match iran item for item after this deal is done. the president had shallome calming lag, but we all have to keep 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enough? >> are you really going to ask such a stupid question? >> camera recording shows speed increasing from 70 to 100 miles an hour in the last minute. >> republicans have been very much against amtrak for a very long time. >> they started this yesterday. it's all about funding. the train was going twice the speed limit. >> 20 house republicans stepped up on hillary clinton. there may also be foundation fallout it for george stephanopoulos. >> there were no $75,000 did he faces that have slipped high my mind. >> jeb bush has been adjusting his answer. >> i would not have gone into iraq. >> i wish i'd get five chances on every math rob inproblem in high school. >> i am loyal to him. i hone hope i was clear on where i stood. >> joining the table, sam stein and also bob woodward-why are you laugh something. >> i'm sitting next to bob woodward. and it's me. okay. let's go to bob. >> sometimes it's okay to get out of sand box and walk into the house. that's okay. pulitzer prize winning associate editor for the "washington post," bob woodward. katty, why didn't we start very tough week for jeb bush. >> you could say that again. former florida governor jeb bush has not had a good week. his answer about one of his oldest brother's big policy decisions changed yet again yesterday. kelly o'donnell explains for us. >> reporter: in arizona jeb bush tried to clean up a political mess of his own making. >> knowing what we know now what would you have gun. i would have not engaged, i would not have gone into iraq. >> reporter: but that's a huge flip from what he said on monday. >> knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have. and so would have hillary clinton just to remind everybody. >> reporter: saying he had misinterpreted the question, bush tried again tuesday with radio host sean hannity. >> so in other words, in 20/20 hindsight, you would make a different decision? >> yeah, i don't know what that decision would have been that's a hypothetical, but mistakes were made. >> reporter: republican rivals seized on bush's wavering. >> throwing what they know now, would you have authorized the invasion of iraq? >> of course not. >> i don't think you can honestly say that if we knew then that there was no will wmd that the country should have gn to war. >> reporter: fair or not, he is taking heat for his brother's policies. bush admits he is reluctant to criticize the former president even when he disagrees. after a shaky week where bush tried to choose his words carefully, he turned heads again when he said this. >> i'm running for president in 2016. >> reporter: but wait bush not ready to formally launch a campaign tried to clarify by being less definitive. >> are you running for president? >> i'm seriously considering it. thank you, guys. >> bush add that had he hesitated to say the war was a mistake because he didn't want on diminish the service of veterans and their families emphasizing their sacrificeses were in fact worth it. >> bob woodward, you have quite a few books written about the mess that was the bush 43 foreign policy. over eight years. we were talking around the table, a lot of people are concerned and republicans especially not with the gaffes but with the fact that he said his top middle east adviser it week would be george w. bush. >> and bush -- george w. bush's final position on iraq, and i've talked to him about it, is, well we're better off because saddam is no longer there. he still feels he made the right decision. the problem here is not the gasp and he said yes, no, maybe, and all of the above essentially. it is how do you deal with foreign policy issues like that how do you decide to go to war and who do you rely on. it's shaky. >> and for republicans, sam tine, who have been looking to jeb bush for the big money people as the competent candidate who could win, their confidence also shaken this week. >> i agree. i think bob nails it. the question -- the real question is not knowing what you know now would you have done it it's knowing what you knew then would you have done it. if you had been in george w. bush's shoes which even if the biggest boosters of the war admitted it wasn't convincing, would you authorize that invasion. and from everything i can tell regardless of the theatrics of the past four days the answer to that probably was yes. and i think for a lot of the country, that's what is problematic. s it's not that he can't come to an answer on a hypothetical question. he has this foreign policy view mirrors his brother. >> and he said hillary clinton said yes at the time, too. >> and that's something she'll have to answer for. >> i think the fumbling is an issue for him. i think it suggests a lack of competence. this is the one question he knew he was going to be asked in relation to his brother. why on earth hasn't he got his answer sorted out before this campaign began. and he has a reputation for somebody who is prepared to take a position and stick to it. this time he's gone backwards and forwards. >> but what is the good answer to that question? and the good answer is going to war is the most defining thing that this country does and you need a mechanism to get advice to get intelligence and to be really, really careful. and the problem is in the iraq invasion, it turned out -- will the intelligence, george tenant was in there telling george bush it's a slam dunk don't worry about the intelligence. >> if you do go to war, what did you to afterwards. >> and i think the fumbling does tell us something. it tells us about his rep race as preparation, how is he on his feet. i think it's dwarfed by the answer to the second question which is what would you have done in that moment about the authorization. that tells you about the world view and your theories on preemptivepre- preemptive war, what you think the military is good for. i think that tells you a whole lot more than your slip ups to a question on the campaign trail. >> it's hard to find a republican and put them back in 2003 who would not have authorized it. ted cruz says -- >> only one his name is rand paul. >> there is rand paul and same thing with democrats. george w. bush ran against two democrats who both -- well, actually, you had hildlary in 2008 that supported the war and john kerry in 2004 who supported the war. >> and joe biden and chris dodd. and this is it what made barack obama barack obama. >> it reminds us the iraq war is not over by the way. >> al, really quickly i want to follow up on what katty said. what is fascinating, jeb bush had to know this question was coming. customer like mitt romney had to know questions about romneycare was coming. hillary had to know that there would be questions about the server. ron fournier said these are the questions that are coming. be prepared. they're coming. the clintons should have been ready for the torn doughforeign donations questions. you scratch your head saying how does jeb bush prepare on run for president for 20 years and not have an answer ready for would you have gone into iraq in 2003. >> sometimes it's because that there is no good answer because as i suspect, he basically believes in his brother's national security policies. that's not a good answer. if he could embrace his dad's foreign policies, that might be better, but that's not the question now. so i agree he looked terrible, but maybe there is no good answer for him. >> another person who has not had a particularly good week, abc news chief anchor george stephanopoulos will not be moderating the republican presidential debate after acknowledging he gave $75,000 in donations to the clinton foundation from 2012 through 2014. mr. stephanopoulos who served as a top adviser to president bill clinton ton is now apologizing for failing to disclose the donations particularly when he grilled the author of a recent book that questioned the overlap between donations and hakillary clinton's state department. >> you write it warrants further investigation by law enforcement officers. do you have any evidence that a crime may have been committed? >> certainly i think it warrants investigation. what that investigation reveals, we'll see. she was meeting with lavrov. there were four senior congressmen on national security issues that raised concerns about this issue. >> wait a second. there were nine different agencies approved it. doesn't that suggest that that was because there was no national security concern? the clintons say it's coincidence, you've produced no evidence. and i still haven't heard no direct evidence. as you know clinton campaign says you haven't produced a shred of evidence that there was any official action as secretary that assumed the interests of donors. we've done investigative work here at abc news, found no proof of any kind of direct action. and an independent government ethics expert wrote in he said there is no smoking gun, no evidence that she changed a policy based on donations to the foundation. no smoking gun. >> bob woodward, no smoking gun. >> well, i mean the question -- it'sing a agrees suffer ing a gresaggressive, but in fairness to george stephanopoulos he can be tough on the clintons and he was in his own book and memoir at the time. the question for stephanopoulos what was going through your mind when you made this donation. or is there so much money that he's being paid that it's kind of on automatic pilot. but i want to know what he was thinking because this is -- >> wasn't there a statement out yesterday that said this was just a small percentage of contributions he gave? >> yeah. it's a big mistake. the interesting thing these days in our culture, can you make a mistake and go on, apologize and go on? you know, is there more to it? can he explain what was going through his mind? this is not just buying a cup of coffee. >> isn't the transparency really the issue at the end of the day? we had al hunt talked about that he gave $250 contribution to the clinton foundation for haiti relief fund. i went to my boss and said, hey, i gave some contributions to france and local races. the difference is we're not talking about haiti and i'm not interviewing the escambia supervisor of elections. >> although that would make great tv. >> you'd love dave just like i love him. but in this case you have him making a contribution to an organization that is at the center of the most important question right now, certainly in the press, facing hillary clinton and that clip right there. abc has done investigation. is that the biggest problem? >> that is the biggest problem. knowing that he had made those donations, the $75,000 in donations, he obviously should have disclosed when he interviewed this author that he had made those donations. just pretty straightforward ethics. i will say that as you noted, there is lines that each news organization draws when it comes to charitable grifing. most news organizations say no no when it comes to giving tord shal campaign or any campaign for that matter. but when it comes to charitable giving, you are allowed in some news organizations to make those donations. you have to disclose. it doesn't mean you're butt off. i donated to doctors without borders -- >> i want to apply a clip from jon stewart. george stephanopoulos himself suggested that people gave to the clinton foundation -- >> i saw that. it's pretty bad. >> wanted something more than just a picture. let's take a look. >> i read the book that this is based organization "clinton cash." and i interviewed the author. this is a tough one because when you actually look at -- look closely at it, he even says there is no evidence of any direct action taken on behalf of the donor but even also knows donors give that money and president clinton or someone they get a picture with him, there a hope that that will lead to something. >> of course. >> that's what you have to be care of. >> i don't understand the entire system appears to be shrouded thp type of quid pro quo or the appearance. >> or even if you don't get an action, what you get is access and you get the influence that comes with access and that has to shape the thinking of politicians. i think that's what is so pernicious about it. >> and katty, again, i talked about some questions that everybody we talked to yesterday were saying off the air that they weren't going to say on the air. another thing that i heard from at least a half dozen reporters and media types were that they were laughing and saying george was doing exactly what people have been questioning foreign leaders about. one rom nept person said it was pay to play. he was trying to get in the graces of the clintons leading into -- because bob talked about all too human. a book that put him on the outs with the clintons for quite some time. >> because he's not a foreign leader trying to buy policy change. so what is it that a journalist might want from the clintons. you want access, an interview. you want to get inside the inner circle in the run up to a presidential campaign and exactly what jeremy peters said earlier on, this looks like he was giving money even if it had nothing to do with it there is the perception. >> and those clarities that he wants to support aids sdee deforestation. there are other charities without the clinton name that he could have given to. >> charities quite frankly that people like jeffrey sacks sacks oig who knows a thing or two about dharities much more pre-efficient. >> and when you give to any individual, you need to have a mother teresa test. in other words is this pure. and be really really careful. and he wasn't careful. and i think he should also be given a chance to say, hey look this is what was going through my head. i don't think $75,000 is going to buy much with the clintons. maybe a four minute speech by bill. >> we would be remiss in not hearing what george himself says. he writes in part in hindsight i should have taken the extra step of personally disclosing my donations to my employer and to the viewers on air during the recent news stories about the foundation. i apologize. abc news for its part is backing stephanopoulos writing in quote, he's admitted to an honest mistake and apologized for that omission. we stand behind him. and we accept his apology. >>. >> a famous line in broadcast news was when william hurt said, yeah, but they keep moving that line. that line has been moved an awful lot over the past 20 years. i'm not stunned by what george did at all. should have disclosed it before the interview. i don't think there is any doubt about that. but there is a way to handle this. and let's just call it what it is. and that is the tim russert standard. luke was saying earlier to me this morning he said his dad knew because he worked for moynihan, for cuomo, he had one bite at the apple. if he screwed up once if he was caught being biased once towards republicans, if he wasn't as tough on democrats as he was on republicans, one time, that he would blow it. and that's the standard tim lived by. >> you you know what is interesting, we talked about jeb bush earlier. jeb bush's last campaign, tim russert mod rateds moderated the debate in which he tore apart his democratic opponent who wasn't ready for simple questions. that was the tim russert that we all knew. no one ever accused tim russert of favoring one side or the other. he could be an equal opportunity harasser as we said. and that's part of the problem that george had. but i think it ghes not just the transparency, it goes to bob's question. it's also why did you do it. why 75 grand to most people is a lot of money. >> like you said there is a problem, but these things -- there is a momentum to them and he needs to come out and sit down and answer that question. this is the procedure that happened. my bookkeeper did it or my wife did it. >> i guess i have a question for you, joe. the compartmentalization of your personal interests and professional obligations you were a republican member of congress, but you'd question republicans pretty hard. isn't there a way to say, okay, i have these separate interests on the side and let's put aside maybe pay to play, but then to do your job and focus on it? >> sure. and in fact, mika makes it very clear that she votes democratic. i make it very clear that i vote republican. there is a reason why chuck schumer watches the show every morning you about a he knows that i'll go after jeb bush as hard as i go after hillary clinton. there is a reason why the clinton campaign watches the show every morning. it's because they know that if we're talking about it here around the table, then it's going to move to the news media of the day. >> was anyone really surprised that george stephanopoulos was supportive of bill clinton? >> but here's the deal. i would not give jeb bush money. would i give george h.w. bush -- i don't know if i would or not. but if i did -- >> he's not running for president. >> yeah. he's not running for -- >> but there are lines. >> i think the transparency is important. i'll give you a a small example. i have written about ben carson and every team i do i point out he operated on our son. i don't think i could possibly write about ben carson whether favorable or unfavorable without saying i had a personal connection. once i say that then i can write about them. stephanopoulos just said it, he wouldn't be in this about. >> the global foundation of the clintons is now under a cloud. when he was giving money to it it was, oh this is a good charity and give to it. so i'm not sure it's fair to say, hey it's the jeb bush question what we know now would we do it. if you ask stephanopoulos would you still make those did heonations? i'm sure it would be a heavy no. >> i think you have to go after both sides tough. that's the key. well, more to come. by the way george stephanopoulos just reiterated this morning that he was sorry he did not disclose the donation and that she have made the extra disclosure. which i guess he's saying since these were public, he thought that was disclosure nuch,enough. anyway coming up next, they don't make jobs much toucher than his. we have the secretary of homeland security jeh johnson. he'll be joining the table and he's obviously looking to counter isis activity in all 50 states. we'll ask him what all those warnings were about last week. looking for one of these? yoplait. smooth, creamy, and craved by the whole family. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta he fires up the free wifi with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before! so he can rapidly prepare his presentation. and when he perfects his pitch, do you know what chris can do? and that is my recommendation. let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! he's ready. la quinta inns & suites take care of you, so you can take care of business. book your next stay at lq.com! la quinta! thanks for coming. we want a spirited performance. who offers the most horsepower? lincoln mkc. don't make jobs much toucher we also want clever thinking in a tight spot. anyone offer hands-free in and out park assist? lincoln mkc. bra-vo. the lincoln luxury uncovered event is on. lease the mkc for $329 a month. and for a limited time competitive owners and lessees get one-thousand dollars bonus cash. yesterday marked the second time in five months that secret service has discovered a drone flying in the vicinity of the building. officials say this one didn't make it over the fence, but did fly to within a block of the grounds coming down just across the street in la fayette square. the white house briefly went into lockdown as a result. the man flying it hasn't been identified yet but he reportedly cooperated with officers' commands to land it before being arrested. the secret service says he's been turned over to the u.s. park police which has jurisdiction. >> with us now jeh johnson and chuck todd. mr. secretary, thanks so much for being with us. last weekend a lot of warnings, a lot of possible terror threats. what can you tell us? >> we're in a new phase in my view in the global terrorist threat where because of effective use of social media, the internet, by isil, codeal qaeda we have to be concerned about the independent actor and the independent actor who is here in the home land who may strike with little or no warning to law enforcement, to our intelligence community. so the nature of the global terrorist threat has evolved. and it is all the more important therefore for my department, for the fbi to share information share intelligence what we're seeing what state and local law enforcement. so director combey are spending a lot of time on that. >> two potential threats the possibility of an aircraft being taken over by al qaeda isis types and on the way to america or europe. he also sees the possibility of a nairobi style attack on a mall where you get 10 or 15 gunmen taking over a mall in the states. do you agree? >> i agree that much of our concern continues to center around aviation security, which is why i directed enhancements to aviation security at what we call last point of departure airports overseas that have flights directly into the united states. we continue to evaluate whether more is necessary concerning aviation security. and we do have concerns when the independent actor or small group of actors who are not necessarily directed by a terrorist organization but are inspired -- >> how do you defend against that is this. >> well it's important that we continue to put out joint intelligence bulletins for example about what we're seeing, about events that may provoke like we saw in garland texas. we gave advanced notice nationwide about that event. so we have to keep our eye on the ball, we have to keep a close pulse on what is happening here in the homeland and continue to work with local police departments sheriffs and so forth. >> so a federal court ruled that parts of the patriot act were unconstitutional, nsa data collection. how important is it do you believe for the united states government to have the ability to collect that sort of data? phone records. to be able to see the next threat that is coming from a lone wolf. >> basic intelligence know from my days in the department of defense and homeland security is critical to know what is happening overseas. but the way the threat is evolving we also have to be concerned about independent actors here in the homeland. >> you talk about the independent actors. let's connect dots. federal court says you can't use these databases, i'm sure you'd like to be tracking these as pir rants, aspiring terrorists. director comey by the way said there shouldn't be a distinction anymore. a, i wonder if you agree and, b, if you don't have this bulk data collection, you cannot track these people on social media and is that something you're concerned about? >> there are a couple different things in that question chuck. we are concerned that with deeper and deeper encryption, the demands of the marketplace for greater cyber security, deeper encryption and basic communications, it is making it harder for the fbi and state and local law enforcement to track crime, to track potential terrorist activity. and so what i've said and i know what jim has said and what we're thinking about is striking the right balance between encryption, glapddemands in the marketplace and also national security needs. a lot of criminal activity is in fact harder to detect because of deeper enencryption. so we have to find a solution for that. >> is there something you can't do because of all the snowden disclosures that have really hampered security? >> the snowden disclosures very definitely changed the landscape. >> but did it hamper your ability to do what you have to do? >> the snowden disclosures i'm quite sure have been one of the drivers toward the demands for more and more encryption in the marketplace. that has made it harder for us to detect crime and it has made it harder for us to detect potential terrorist activity. and this is not just a federal matter. i hear from attorneys about their inability to track criminal activity now because of encryption. and so we have to find a solution to this and we're thinking about this actively right now. >> katty was talking about the sorry about the drone. i'm thinking about campaign events in 2016 and i'm thinking about you're going to have -- how panicked is secret service about this issue of the proliferation of drones? because i'm sitting here wondering how hard it will be to secure outdoor campaign events now in 2016. you'll have -- and distinctish distinguishing because we in the news media love these aerial shots. boy, if i'm secret service, is that an nbc drone or shall crazy man? >> when you refer to a drone, i'm assuming you're referring to the smaller -- >> any of the stuff. in this case, it was smaller stuff. >> u.s. north com, me secret service, capitol police, metro police here in washington, d.c. area, we need to refine our protocols for airborne stuff in the national capital region to deal with what we're referring to as the low and slow stuff. >> you said national capital region but i'm thinking takedes moines, iowa, fair grounds. >> i was giving an address and in the middle i see a little drone flying over my head. fortunately the secret service was on this guy in a second but it was a little distracting in the middle of what i thought was an inspirational speech and all of a sudden i see this thing buzzing over my head. but the secret service was on him pretty quickly. and i think that's what happened yesterday. >> mr. secretary, we're in the middle of national police week obviously. we see the being a arysacrifices police officers make every day and it's been a rough year pr-wise for law enforcement and a lot of great cops are lumped together with a very few bad cops. why is this this week so important this year? >> i think it's important to -- and i've countrydone a lot of events this week here in washington. it's important simply to say thank you to families of those killed in the line of duty and to say to them we're with you, we support you you're part of our family. you'll never leave our family. that's a message that i and others have delivered repeatedly this will week at various different ceremonies. and these guys and ladies put their lives on the line daily without a lavish salary for people they don't even know. so it's important to send a message that we support you. >> all right. mr. secretary, thank you so much. we appreciate you walking next door. >> thank you. bob woodward, thank you so much for being with us. always great to see you here. chuck, stay with us if you can. coming up next may not be the fight of the century in fact may not even be the fight of today. but we're just hours away from mitt romney's boxing match against eran dervander holyfield. >> i dare anybody at 60 plus years old? he's an athletic man. >> looks in good shape. >> wow. kasie hunt gives us the tailed oig of tale of the tape. 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[announcer]our new online business planning tools will help your business thrive. wells fargo.together we'll go far. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. if we're all supposed to answer hypothetical questions knowing what we know now what would you have done, i would have not engaged, i would not have gone into iraq. that's not to say the world is safer because saddam hussein is gone. it is significantly safer. that's not to say that there was a courageous effort to bring about a surge that created stability in iraq. all of that is true. that is not to say that the men and women that have served in uniform and many others that went to iraq to receiver between so certainly honorably. >> wow. after days of shifting answers jeb bhushush said he wouldn't have gone it war. let's be transparent. i voted for jeb three times. i've told anybody that would ask he's the smartest guy in politics. this week, though, he looked like a first class amateur. i don't get it. >> and it really does remind me of hillary clinton in '07 dealing with iraq. if you remember. and she struggled address strugnd struggled and the rest of the field was gleeful watching her twist in the wind. number one, he's unprepared for the question that you knew was coming. the other is how comfortable the rest of the field is saying yeah, iraq was a mistake. >> and that's not an insignificant development. a lot of republican candidates are now in the same -- >> main talking point was for all that went wrong, for all the mistakes it was worth it. and now we're at a different place. >> and this is not a case of leadership. the worth it/not worth is question, 49% of republicans say it was not worth it. >> if you talk to foreign policy leaders behind closed door, and ask them, if you could go back and do a reset and have gadhafi running libya having saddam hussein running iraq and having assad running syria pre-civil war, would you take it. every one of them say yes. >> and it wouldn't be just republican. >> democratic policy people, too. let's go to kasie hunt, she's? this scottsdale. quite a week for jeb bush. >> reporter: quite a week for jeb bush. and i think yesterday we finally reached his final answer on this. but i think this is a situation where he was really calling the shots. you were talking about how this is a really smart guy. this is somebody that his staff thinks that he knows how to handle all these questions and on the conference calls that they have been having, that's one of the things that has come up. jeb was sitting there saying you never had to make these phone calls to people who were serving, would were injured, or were killed. this isn't something that i want to go out there and do. and ultimately bush had to come around and make the decision to actually say unequivocally that he wouldn't have done it. but i think this also highlights for bush how this is an issue of loyalty as it relates to his brother. >> i'm not -- i don't go out of my way to disagree my brotherwith my brother. i don't think it's necessary to go through every place where i disagree with him. as it relates to the iraq war, i was clear on where i stood. >> reporter: so he's a little bit kneecaped. any one of these other candidates can basically feel free to criticize any president. but jeb bush feels as though he doesn't want to go out of his way to disagree with the last two republican presidents that we've had. kind of a tricky way of looking at it. this isn't going to be the only time that he has to answer a question like this. >> yeah. and bob woodward was talking about the last time you you talked to bush 43. bush 43 says it was terrible intelligence. more definitive than jeb's answer. >> and jeb should have known that and should have known that he could go at least that far. but how do we parse even his final answer? because his final answer is that he wouldn't have done it, but the world is significantly safer. so therefore was it a mistake but it was lucky mistake? >> and by the way, is iraq really safer in 2015 than it was in early 2003? >> certainly not. and that's a point that jeb's republican rivals have been making. this is what you get when you have -- you're fighting an election with two legacy candidates like a clinton and bush. in hillary's case, we're fighting about nafta and trade. >> hillary as shown that cease very willing to not align herself with the bill clinton era. she's did done it on criminal justice, nafta. >> he doesn't want itdone it on criminal justice, nafta. >> he doesn't want it either, right? >> but also, yeah, it's alwayss a little different with the bushes than it is with a spouse. there are complications. kasie, tale of the tape tonight mitt romney versus evander holyfield. romney, the dude looks good. he is in good shape. >> reporter: well, he joked that he used to be dubbed bird legs, but he'll be fitting tonight as mitt the glove romney against evander the real deal holyfield. we had a little bit of a tale of the tape here. romney 6'2" holyfield 6'1". romney 68 years old, holyfield 52. massachusetts governor former title verse the undisputed heavyweight champ. he told the "new york times" he'll be wearing red silk shorts sponsored by under armour. >> wow. and did kasie just say 68 years old? did you see how good that guy looks at 68? >> clean living, baby. >> not that anybody here has to worry about it. >> which of the 2016 field would you want to see most in a tank top? >> keep that to yourself buddy. >> what about if somebody just takes a real swing. >> thanks so much, kasie. chuck, thank you, as well. really appreciate you being here. and what do you have planned? >> we have rand paul. >> oh, my gosh. >> talk a little bit about iraq. >> all right. coming up next the chairman of the house armed services committee mac thornbury will be here to join the conversation. we'll be asking him about isis and the middle east and much more. i can't find my discover card! wait, i can freeze my account. 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[laughs] maybe not your best. no... make on-budget happen. make break-time happen. staples. make more happen. why do we do it? why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo. lease the well equiped volvo xc60 today. visit your local volvo showroom for details. the network that monitors her health. the secure cloud services that store her genetic data the servers and software on a mission to find the perfect match. and the mom who gets to hear her daughter's heart beat once again. we're helping organizations transform the way they work so they can transform the lives of the people they serve. mac thornberry. with us now, chairman of the house armed services committee, mac thornberry. also with us chief white house correspondent from politico, mike allen. mr. chairman, thank you so much for being with us. let's talk about the defense bill. there have been a lot of concerns about the caps put on the defense bill because of spending limits. is that a concern to you or do you side step hose spending caps? >> well, the caps are a concern but we found a way to add to the overseas contingency account so that we in the house budget and the defense bill on the floor right now meet exactly the amount that the president last asked for. it's $611.9 billion. and we meet it exactly. so there are differences in how some of those funds get categorized, but the total, there is no difference. and so to have members of the president's party say they will vote against it even though we match exactly what the president asked for is a little disheartening. >> $611 billion pentagon budget. i know a lot's changed since i was there and working along side you and the armed services committee, but that's double what we used to spend. why do we need as a country to spend $611 billion on national security? >> well, one because we face more significant national security threats around the world than we have ever faced before. two, our people costs are higher than they have ever been before, which is not a bad thing. as a matter of fact, one of the provisions of this bill sets up a new retirement system so that the 83% of the people who serve in the military and leave with nothing in retirement can now have a little nest egg. and there have been hundreds of provisions in this bill sponsored by democrats. it is truly still as the "washington post" mentioned this morning the last vestage of bay partisanship. it's disheartening to think that members would be willing to walk away from that tradition particularly on something as important as national defense. >> congressman, you use the dwroefr overseas contingency fund in an effort to get around the budget caps. why is levels. why is it okay to not offset spending like that on defense but it's sacrilege to put money in the nih for scientific research and you have to offset it. >> i don't think it is sacrilege. in fact, there are lots of republicans -- and i would be included -- who would increase money for nih and want to have something that is more rational than the budget control act and its arbitrary caps and sequestration. but the point is you can't do that on a defense authorization bill. so in effect the troops are being held hostage for something that we can't fix in this bill. and, again, that's just not the place or time to have that debate and it's not fair to them to try to have it and hold them hostage on it. >> politico's mike allen, you're next? >> mr. chairman, you're month three with ash carter as the new defense secretary. how is his style different? what's he been like to work with? >> he's been excellent to work with. he comes with some unique insights into the way the pentagon works. so in addition to reversing the cuts that we have had in defense spending, one of our priorities on the hill and secretary carter is working with us on it is to make reforms at the pentagon so that we spend that money better. and he is me a great position with his experience and insight into helping us do that. so there are a number of reforms to reduce overhead, modernize the personnel system and improve the way the pentagon buys goods and services that are in this bill that's on the floor right now and secretary carter is a full partner in that. >> jeremy peters? >> congressman good morning jeremy peters here. i wonder if you could talk about doing -- having this fight in the context of a presidential campaign. increasing military spending is something that is not popular among all republicans. the grass-roots in iowa probably certainly are not very excited about the idea of raising the budget caps here. >> well two things. one is in the last four years defense spending has been cut 21% when you count inflation. and if you think about it, the world is not 21% safer now than it was in four years ago. so when you look at what isis has done, russia in ukraine, north korea, iran, china, cyber, just go through the list earthquake relief. you know we just got the sad news this morning that the helicopter's been found in nepal. we expect our military to do everything. and so that comes at a cost and i think most american people are willing to pay that cost. defending the country is the first job of the federal government. and -- but the key is it's been above partisanship as far as the support we give to our troops. that's what's different today. >> all right, mr. chairman, thank you so much. congressman mac thornberry, we always appreciate you being with us. mike allen stay with us. you haven't had a chance to say happy friday yet. coming up next, new details about why the amtrak train sped up just seconds before it derailed. we'll be right back. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. kenny used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to join the wednesday night league. because he loves to play hoops. not jump through them. that's the excitement of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta he fires up the free wifi with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before! so he can rapidly prepare his presentation. and when he perfects his pitch, do you know what chris can do? 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>> and they're saying it's a reminder his brother needs to stay out of the spotlight except for raising money and jeb bush, it's not exactly a trick topic needs to go back in the shop, be more ready. >> all right, i love the caucus every friday in politico and thank you for being here really appreciate it. we're going to be reading politico obviously today. coming up at the top of the hour, we're going to take a closer look at the new scrutiny surrounding abc news anchor george stephanopoulos's failure to disclose $75,000 donations to the clinton foundation. how it's already impacting the race for 2016. plus, house speaker john boehner told a reporter that they had asked "such a stupid question" that he didn't want to answer it. we'll tell you what the question was ahead and also more on jeb bush's confounding week. we'll be right back. and the 45 highway mpg tdi clean diesel. and last but not least the high performance gti. looks like we're gonna need a bigger podium. the volkswagen golf family. motor trend's 2015 "cars" of the year. when a moment spontaneously turns romantic why pause to take a pill? 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♪ well this summer, stay with choice hotels twice and get a $50 gift card you can use for just about anything. go you always have a choice. book now at choicehotels.com >>who... is this?! >>hi, i am heinz new mustard. hi na na na na >>she's just jealous because you have better taste. whatever. >>hey. keep your chin up. for years, heinz ketchup has been with the wrong mustard. well, not anymore. introducing heinz new better tasting yellow mustard. mmm! the king of theblues b.b. king has died. his blues guitar style lifted them to the heights of fame attracting fans of all musical genres. he was known for his guitar lucille. the fire started accidentally by two men fighting over a woman and her name, of course, lucille. king was a road warrior according to the "wall street journal," playing some 330 shows a year for the better part of four decades and he collaborated with legends from eric clapton to u2. king was inducted into the rock 'n roll hall of fame in 1987. he received the presidential medal of freedom from president george w. bush in 2006 and medical officials say he died of complications from dementia. b.b. king was 89 years old. and i was just saying to you one year i went out to the grammys and met a lot of petulant punks and then i met b.b. king, he was a wonderful, gracious man. >> that's so great to hear. i in every met him but what a legend. you know he had severe, serious health problems for many years. he had diabetes and then later dementia but never be forgotten. >> never. never and brought the blues to mainstream music and -- but we have a lot of news today and including some breaking news from nepal. >> after that second earthquake there, we do have news that the u.s. air force is now on the ground inspecting what's now confirmed to be the wreckage from that u.s. military helicopter that vanished three days ago. the crash was eight miles north of charicot where two nepalese soldiers were headed on tuesday. the service members were delivering human karen aid to quake convicts. the huey was reportedly piloted by wichita, kansas native chris nordegren. he was on his second overseas deployment. the first was to afghanistan. the family of sergeant mark johnson of florida also said he was on board the chopper. they were hoping for the best that the chopper may have landed in a region that was out of radio range but we now have confirmation that it did indeed crash. that is very sad news of course, for the family members of the people on that chopper. abc news chief anchor george stephanopoulos will not be moderating a republican presidential debate after acknowledging he gave $75,000 in donations to the clinton foundation from 2012 to 2014. stephanopoulos he servewho served as a top advisor to president clinton, is apologizing for failing to disclose the contributions, particularly when he grilled the author of a recent book that questioned overlap between foreign donations to bill clinton's initiative and favors by hillary clinton's state department. >> you take it pretty far. you write the pattern of behavior is troubling enough to warrant further investigation by law enforcement officers. >> correct. >> do you have any evidence a crime may have been committed? >> certainly i think it warrants investigation. what that investigation -- >> but a criminal investigation? >> well we'll see. she was the one that was meeting with lavrov. there were four senior congressmen on national security issues that raised concerns about this issue. >> but wait a second. there were nine different agencies approving it. doesn't that suggest that that was because there was no national security concern? the clintons say it's coincidence, they say you've produced no evidence and i haven't heard any direct evidence and you said you had no evidence. the clinton campaign says you haven't produced a shred of evidence that there was official action as secretary that supported the interest of donors. we've done investigative work at abc news, found no proof of any kind of direct action and an independent government ethics expert said this "there's no smoking gun, no evidence she changed a policy based on donations to the foundation." no smoking gun. >> jeremy you wrote a story, front page of the "new york times" this morning. what did you find in your reporting? >> well, i think there are reasonable limits to going into a journalist's background when they've had prior lives in politics. i mean we're not going after diane sawyer for working for richard nixon. we're not going after tim russet for working for mario cuomo. however, i do not any there is a modern parallel for this for the person who is the face of the most-watched news network in the country to have given $75,000 to an entity that bears the name of a person who's running for president. and that is -- >> and then that. and then that interview. by the way this isn't even a side issue. this is the main issue at least on the democratic side of the 2016 race. this is the issue that everybody's been talking about. the "new york times," the "washington post," the "wall street journal," bloomberg, nbc. i mean, this issue, the clinton foundation and people who paid to play. >> exactly. and i mean the problem is is the foundation has already been -- >> allegedly paid to play. >> -- has already been wrapped up into so much controversy. but you're right. the appearance is that he was trying to buy access. he was trying to buy an interview. and if you are the public face of a news network, that is something that my bosses certainly would not tolerate. >> al hunt. he did say he wasn't going to moderate the gop debate. >> i'm not going to pitch for the washington nationals against the yankees, joe. >> what does that mean? >> that means he wasn't going to moderate the debate anyway. let me be transparent. my wife gave $250 to the clinton haiti relief fund in 2010 after that earthquake and after you recall the context then was that presidents bush and clinton had appealed for. $250 to the haiti clinton relief fund isn't really a problem and it's quite different from what george did. that was also a time when barack obama was running for reelection. the problem that george did was the size $75,000 is a lot of money, at least to most of us at this table. it was done in 2000 and continued through 2013 2014 when the foundation was named after her and it just is a terrible appearance when you go on the air and interview someone like that author. >> okay, before we all jump in, let's get the statements. let's hear from stephanopoulos himself. he writes in part "in hindsight i should have taken the extra step of disclosing my donations to my employer and the viewers on air during the recent news stories about the foundation. i apologize." abc news is backing its newsman writing in part "he's admitted to an honest mistake and apologized for that omission. we stand behind him." the network added "we accept his apology." just a few weeks ago, he sat down with jon stewart on "the daily show" where he discussed the potential conflicts of interest surrounding donations to the clinton foundation without mentioning his own. >> i read the book that this is based on "clinton cash" and interviewed the author. this is a tough one because when you actually look at -- look closely at it, he even says there's no evidence of any direct action taken on behalf of the donors. but everybody also knows when those donors give that money and president clinton or someone, they get a picture with him, there's a hope that that's going to lead to something. >> of course. >> that's what you have to be careful of. >> the entire system appears to be shrouded in quid pro quo or the appearance. >> even if you don't get an action, what you get is access and the influence that comes with access and that has to shape the thinking of politicians. that's what's pernicious about it. >> that's exactly the issue jeremy's speaking about. >> that's kind of the issue. that's kind of the issue as we saw in the interview. he can't do -- i mean i can't -- there are no $75,000 donations that have slipped my mind right? that i have just -- slipped by when i'm talking about the subject on television. >> you don't know whether you gave $50,000 or $75,000. >> they disclosed the wrong amount at first. >> he has spent so many years at abc trying to get rid of this sort of atmosphere this aura that he was some sort of clinton retainer. >> and he's done so. to be fair so, he has done so successfully, i think. i don't think you could look at george over the last few years and say that there was a partisan bent to his interviewing, to his anchoring, to his reporting. >> well hold on. >> he's not tim russert. >> he didn't make the -- >> don't say that though, catty to barack obama's campaign in 2008. i mean because back in 2008 during the primary battle between barack obama and hillary clinton, stephanopoulos faced strong criticism and had a lot of questions asked about -- the questions he asked about then-candidate barack obama in a debate moderated by abc news. >> do you think reverend wright loves america as much as you do? and number two, if you get the nomination, what will you do when those sermons are played on television again and again in your relationship. a gentleman named william ayers he was part of the weather underground in the 1970s, they bombed the pentagon, the capitol and other buildings. he's never apologized for that and, in fact, on 9/11 he was quoted in the "new york times" saying "i don't regret setting bombs, i feel we didn't do enough." in early organizing for your state senate campaign was held at his house and your campaign said you were friendly. can you explain that relationship for the voters and explain to democrats why it won't be a problem? >> so a "washington post" article posted after that debate noted this, the abc notmoderator found themselves under fire for training most of their ammunition on obama. huffington post blogger jason lincolns called the debate utterly asinine. washington post critic called the performance despicable and the philadelphia "daily news" said the moderators "disgraced the american voters and, in fact even disgraced democracy itself." he went on to say "mark me down as undecided." this isn't just a republican thing. we heard this from barack obama's team throughout 2008. >> we did. >> and by the way i'm sorry, there's a much bigger question to ask. tim russert worked for a senator and a governor. tim russert wasn't the enforcer for a president and a presidential campaign. i think the bigger question is why did george stephanopoulos get the job in the first place? that's what conservatives have been asking all of these years and you're right he played exactly into their worst suspicions. >> one understands why conservatives ask that question. as i said earlier he worked very hard to demonstrate over the years that no no no i'm a straight newsman, i can be a straight newsman. but here's the thing, in his statement he said "in hindsight i should have disclosed." well now everyone is going to look in hindsight at his work over that period of time and going to look at interviews like that one and debates like that one and say, you know ah-ha. >> in hindsight, should he have given? >> no. what's interesting is if whether you asked republicans they would say that they feel they have been treated as unfairly by george stephanopoulos as the obama campaign felt it was treated in 2008. >> that's exactly right. there's a long list of conservative grievances against george stephanopoulos and the major one, the one stuck in everybody's craw that still comes up today like it's an open wound is the contraception line of questioning from the 2012 debate in new hampshire where republicans believed that he originated the war on women. now, i think that's a little bit conspiratorial. i don't blame george stephanopoulos for that. but if you look at that debate it still leaves such a stinging mark with republicans. and when i was reporting this story, i heard that actually there was an effort by reince priebus and the rnc to block george from moderating any of the republican debates in this upcoming election. >> well reince priebus, our office reached out to reince priebus to see if he would -- he said we were never going to let him do the debate. that's your washington nationals joke. you know i knew tim russert very well. he was a dear friend. and in all the times he did "meet the press" and other shows i cannot recall anyone saying he was a partisan. he totally shed any partisan -- the charge wasn't even made. he was an equal opportunity harasser. >> the thing is, the charge was that he went after hillary clinton too tough, a democrat. >> it was hillary clinton, it was dan burton. >> it was everybody. >> it was dick cheney. he was one tough interrogator. but very fair across the -- across both aisles. >> and tim always said his goal was to be everybody's worst nightmare when he sat down in front of them, pre- paired for it and asked them the tough questions they didn't want to be asked and they always did that. it's what you have to do. >> and when he ran for something there was something called the russert primary. which means you're a republican, democrat, conservative, liberal, you had to pass being quizzed by tim. i don't think anyone's talking about stephanopoulos. >> it's terribly difficult to go from being in politics to being in objective journalism. we see it far more the other way. we see journalists joining politics or joining administrations. there seems to be an easier switch for -- easier to go through that door than come back the other way. >> the thing is you look at my hate mail most of it for most of my time on tv has come from republicans. >> i imagine so. >> and it's come from republicans because i -- you know what? we went after hillary clinton and i was the devil, going after hillary clinton and the clinton foundation. we've been calling jeb bush inept. we said marco rubio looked like five years ago a student government -- i mean you've got to go after both sides. >> i'm glad to say that i get totally non-partisan hate mail. >> that's good. >> equal opportunity hate mail. >> that's good. >> i retweet people and they're like don't do that again because i get it from the left and the right. >> the most hateful stuff comes from people that assume you're ideologically a i lined. >> tri writing the contrarian column for the "wall street journal." [ laughter ] >> you want tow talk about hail mail! >> okay somebody else who's been getting hate mail this week who's not had such a great week, you could say it's been pretty rough for former florida governor jeb bush. his answer about one of his older brother's biggest foreign policy decisions changed once again yesterday. nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell reports for us. >> reporter: in arizona, jeb bush tried to clean up a political mess of his own making. >> knowing what we know now, what would you have done? i would have not have engaged i would not have gone into iraq. >> but that's a huge flip from what he said on monday. >> knowing what we know now would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have and so would have hillary clinton, just to remind everybody. >> reporter: saying he misinterpreted the question bush tried tuesday with radio host sean hannity. >> so in other words, in 20/20 hindsight you would make a different decision? >> yeah, i don't know what that decision would have been that's a hypothetical. but the simple fact is mistakes were made. >> republican rivals seized on bush's waivering. >> knowing what we know now, would you have authorized the invasion of iraq? >> of course not. >> i don't think you can honestly say that if we knew then that there was no wmd that the country should have gone to war. >> reporter: far or not, he is taking heat for his brother's policies. bush admits he is reluctant to criticize the former president even when he disagrees. >> that's your brother that created isis. >> reporter: after a shaky week where bush tried to choose his words carefully, he turned heads again when he said this. >> i'm running for president in 2016. >> reporter: but wait. bush, not ready to formally launch a campaign tried to clarify by being less definitive. >> are you running for president? >> i'm seriously considering it. thank you, guys. >> bush added that he hesitated to say the war was a mistake because he didn't want to diminish the service of veterans and their families emphasizing that their sacrifices were, in fact, worth it. >> al hunt, five times. the fifth times's the charm. i wish i got five chances on every math problem i had in high school. i mean five times. why would -- this is a guy that's supposed to be the competent republican. it took him five times to get it right. >> joe i think it reflects two things. first of all he has not faced voters in 13 years. he is rusty. he hasn't been out there. even bill clinton if you recall eight years ago was rusty when he tried to come back and help hillary. but i think he fundamentally believes in his brother's national security policies. if you look at that chicago speech he said "i'm my own man" but didn't criticize a single thing his brother did. he agreed with his brother in everything and all of his advisors are basically george w. bush people. >> and it would be okay if he was embracing the george h.w. bush foreign policy. but this one is a disaster. still ahead on morning joe we'll look at the filmmaker who claims uber was his idea. what he is suing for and why a sealed envelope could possibly pose problems for that company. plus history's most famous execution. our conversation with the author of the provocative new book "did got kill jesus?" first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> reporter: the weekend forecast looks active once again. last weekend we had the tornado outbreak. we'll get tornados this weekend. i don't think we'll get quite as many. of course it only takes one. unfortunately, the same spots as last week. already this morning texas is getting drenched san antonio with a nice steady rain overhead, no problems with the grass and the lawns here. in the northeast we're dry as could be new york city hasn't even rained in 22 days. one of the longest stretches since 2001. it's really feast or famine around the country weather wise. up around oklahoma city, you've had way too much rain this spring. you just had thunderstorms roll through, you're clearing out for the rest of the day. oklahoma city south wards on i-35, still a few storms in dallas. so here's the forecast. all the active weather in the middle of the country, hit-and-miss showers and storms. another dry beautiful spring day from the carolinas north wards. how about l.a. and san diego with rain today. san diego had an inch and a half of rain last night, the most rain they've ever had in a recorded mayday. typically it's bone dry there. that's the storm system, by the way, in california today that will kick into the mid-le of the country. severe weather outbreak on saturday. this area in orpg isange is at risk for tornados. so north texas, oklahoma wichita, all the way to rural areas there nebraska, a few strong tornados possible and 20 million people in that slight risk. thankfully, the storm weakens into sunday so for you in chicago, milwaukee minneapolis, waterloo, quad cities all the way down to st. louis, you could get a few strong storms. i don't think we're going to get many tornados sunday, only one or two. so weekend forecast saturday we're watching the warm weather maybe a shower or two around d.c. and new york, then we continue with a mild pattern east of the rock dees right through your sunday. you're watching morning joe, leaving you with a shot of washington, d.c. where we're warming things up as we head through the weekend. we'll be right back. why do we do it? 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oh yeah! scott: feed your lawn. feed it! i hate cleaning the gutters. have you touched the stuff? it's evil. and ladders... awwwwwww!!!!! they have all those warnings on them. might as well say, "you're going to die, jeff". you hired someone to clean the gutters? not just someone. someone from angie's list. but we're not members. we don't have to be to use their new snapfix feature. angie's list helped me find a highly rated service provider to do the work at a fair price. come see what the new angie's list can do for you. making a fist something we do to show resolve. to defend ourselves. to declare victory. so cvs health provides expert support and vital medicines. at our infusion centers or in patients homes. we help them fight the good fight. cvs health, because health is everything. let's get the latest on the train crash. amtrak says it was just months away from finishing installing a safety system that could have prevented that train derailment in philadelphia. officials say the train did have automatic speed control as did the track but it wasn't operational yet. amtrak says budget issues and delays in receiving clearance to use radio frequencies are to blame. meanwhile, federal investigators say train 188 started to accelerate 65 seconds before it derailed. it hit 100 miles per hour 16 seconds before the crash. the worst fears have been realized for the family of a baltimore executive and father bob gildersleeve's body has been found in the wreckage. that brings the death toll to eight. meanwhile, an injured amtrak worker files the first lawsuit related to the crash. the employee is accusing the company of negligence in part for failing to have that safety system in place already. and over on capitol hill, it doesn't appear that heated exchanges over amtrak funding are limited to congressional hearings. one reporter asked house speaker john baner if republicans were to blame for a lack of funding. here's his response. >> are you really going to ask such a stupid question? listen, they started this yesterday, it's all about funding, it's all about funding. well obviously it's not about funding. the train was going twice the speed limit. adequate funds were there, no money has been cut from rail safety and the house passed a bill earlier this spring to reauthorize amtrak and authorize a lot of these programs. and it's hard for me to imagine that people take the bait on some of the nonsense that gets spewed around here. >> let's bring in nbc news correspondent who covers capitol hill luke russert. luke, heated day in the hearings and also with speaker boehner. >> indeed. it gets out to this question about whether or not amtrak is underfunded. and specifically the safety priorities that amtrak says it needs. and, like everything on capitol hill, joe, it's a lot more complicated than just the black-and-white argument that has emerged which is republicans oppose safety, democrats want to fund safety. there was an accident in 2008 and that caused congress to make changes to amtrak, including trying to make this positive train control system go out throughout the country in terms of the track. was it underfunded because of the gop? that's what some people will claim. i think it's somewhat of a far argument because, remember, democrats were in power in 2010 and 2011, they could have funded this thing all the way through if they wanted to but it's fair to say that amtrak has been a political football on capitol hill and specifically a target of republican cuts for some time. in this later round of funding though, where you saw the $250 million cut literally 12 hours before the crash when it went through an appropriations hearing, that's very complicated because in march as you remember on capitol hill an authorization was passed from the house transportation committee to the floor 316 votes that had no cuts that in fact would have taken the profitability of the northeast corridor, put it back in the northeast corridor. well, that ended up not passing through the senate. probably won't become law because it's -- >> wait, wait, so that passed the house but -- >> in march. >> so how did it pass the conservative house but not -- >> it's still held up in the senate. >> why? why are they holding it up? >> we don't know. it's an interesting question. but what's fascinating is that that bill doesn't have any cut cans, it was a bipartisan bill, it puts the money from the northeast corridor back into the northeast corridor and ostensibly you'd think that would be the bill. when the appropriations committee moved forward on these cuts that i did it because they had to get it under the recaps. it goes back to the sequester. >> i'm not -- i'm certainly not connecting anything to republican funding or republican cuts but -- because the guy was going too fast, you could hand this will easily by having two people up front instead of one. but republicans have always been -- had an adversarial relationship with amtrak funding if, going back to when i was there and before. >> it may have something to do with what states use trains heavily and what states don't use train heavily. >> blue and red. >> blue and red and that's the way it works. and someone who has a personal stake in this because i live on the acela. >> as do i. >> and why in the most heavily populated part of the country can't we have a faster, safer train system? >> well faster safer train system -- >> this is the larger question and i don't know the answer. >> and as we've been saying on the show for the past couple days, this isn't about subsidizing amtrak, it's actually about our economy. it's actually about building up our infrastructure. i do think republicans are starting -- at least the republicans i talk to are starting to understand you just can't keep cutting infrastructure funding and remain a first-rate world power. >> you rad -- richard haas has these numbers the other day. china spends 9% of its gdp on infrastructure, india spends 8% of its gdp on infrastructure america spends 2%. now, when interest rates are super low, as they are at the moment, this is precisely the moment to start borrowing for infrastructure spending. >> it certainly is. >> we know and every economist you speak to, whether they are republican or democrat, will say this is a growth and job provider. >> and when gas prices are so low, this is exactly the same too increase the gas tax and other user fees. >> that's not going to happen. >> well, ronald reagan was the champion of user fees. >> tell that to barack obama who was asked the question and punted. as would most presidents no doubt about it. but also, though richard haas showed that over the next five years this could cost us 1% our gdp. this is a matter of economic -- >> 300 million people, we only put a billion into amtrak. the uk 60 million people, they put $8 billion a year. it's, aable how small it is. >> luke we great -- great to see you. also ahead, it's poised to bring in big numbers. our conversation with amctress brittany snow. he's made me a hero at my home with my 11-year-old daughter kate. keep it here on morning joe. ym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. kenny used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to join the wednesday night league. because he loves to play hoops. not jump through them. that's the excitement of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you. the pursuit of healthier. it begins from the second we're born. after all, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned... every day... using wellness to keep away illness... and believing that a single life can be made better by millions of others. healthier takes somebody who can power modern health care... by connecting every single part of it. for as the world keeps on searching for healthier... we're here to make healthier happen. optum. healthier is here. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? now with the xfinity tv go app, you can watch live tv anytime. it's never been easier with so many networks all in one place. get live tv whenever you want. the xfinity tv go app. now with live tv on the go. enjoy over wifi or on verizon wireless 4g lte. plus enjoy special savings when you purchase any new verizon wireless smartphone or tablet from comcast. visit comcast.com/wireless to learn more. - saving money is as simple as making small changes in your daily routine. if you make coffee at home instead of buying it every morning, you can save over $1,000 a year. no coffee is that good. the more you know. welcome back to morning joe, i'm sara eisen live on the floor of the new york stock exchange with your business before the bell. stocks closing at record highs yesterday. high drama on the trading floor around the stock of avon. the cosmetics maker. the stock had to be halted yesterday three different times after surging on reports it was getting bought out for more than $8 billion by ptg capital partners. the problem, ptg was a fake, the entire thing was a hoax and now it's raising all sorts of questions about how a fake firm could file a bid with the regulatory agency, the s.e.c. very shady story one people are looking into. also, a california man is suing uber and its investors saying the founders and investors stole the idea from him. the man is named kevin halpern. he's filed lawsuits previously for other startups for stealing ideas. he says that ceo of uber travis kalanick stole the idea from him. the problem was, it was only an oral agreement he doesn't have anything actually on paper. and there could be an egg shortage, or be prepared to pay higher prices for eggs because there's a bird flu out break in the midwest in the united states costing farmers more than 32 million chickens and turkeys and it's starting to affect some big companies like post holdings, the serecereal maker. that does it for business before the bell. more morning joe in just a moment. when broker chris hill stays at laquinta he fires up the free wifi with a network that's now up to 5 times faster than before! so he can rapidly prepare his presentation. and when he perfects his pitch, do you know what chris can do? and that is my recommendation. let's see if he's ready. he can swim with the sharks! he's ready. la quinta inns & suites take care of you, so you can take care of business. book your next stay at lq.com! la quinta! ideas come into this world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. scott: hello! nbr: scott - we're concerned. you just fed your lawn earlier this spring and now you're at it again. scott: (chuckles) indeed, a crucial late spring feeding helps defend the grass against the summer heat to come. nbr: we knew that - right guys? oh yeah! scott: feed your lawn. feed it! >> update your passports ladies, we are going to the very sunny, very beautiful, copenhagen! >> yeah! yes! >> where that? >> i don't know. i failed maps. >> it looks like the competition has been dominated by that stupid german group that took over our tour. >> you mean stole our tour. >> word. we need to scout those deutsche bags. >> yes. >> how good can they be? germany hasn't produced a good singer since david hasselhoff. >> that was the scene from the new movie "pitch perfect 2." joining us now, one of the co-stars brittany snow. you have just made joe's week. seriously. >> okay. >> you've actually made my daughters' week. >> which makes joe's week. >> she's so excited about this coming out. all of her friends are excited. that's great. so this was a surprise hit. it came out of nowhere. why did it catch on the way it did? >> i think a lot of people really relate to a bunch of misfits. it's an underdog story. i feel like people relate to these characters. also it's a movie where you want to sing and dance and feel good and it has a lot of elements that a lot of people take into their family and friends and inside jokes. and people really relate to these girls. >> you can -- i think every girl, at least i don't know i can -- always feels like a misfit. always feels like she doesn't fit in. everyone looks back on high school especially or college and say "i didn't fit in" because it's that constant struggle. whether you look like you do or not. >> i think that's what this movie does is it showcases what is cool and who decided what it was. ? a cappella as a genre isn't specifically cool but these girls are passionate about it and they're good at it and that's what makes it accepted and cool. >> you guys went through some intense training. you went through boot camp training. but more importantly you went to karaoke bars to practice up on your skills right? some fun. >> we didn't exactly practice our singing because that would be a lot, us belting out show tunes. but we did rap and things. >> what's your favorite song? -to-do? in the karaoke bar. >> my favorite is coolio's "gangster's paradise." and you get the rap, you don't have to sing. then you're that girl that's singing. >> tell us about your character chloe. >> chloe is a very passionate girl. she's now the leader of the belas. the first movie she was kind of the sidekick to aubrey, now aubrey has graduated and chloe has stayed back so now she's a seventh-year senior. and she has gotten exponentially dumb. you know, like she just -- she gets more and more dumb as the years go on so that's what that joke was, is that she fails all of her classes in order to be a bella so she needs these girls to win not only for the team but also for herself. >> so we have some things in common. both of us from florida. also you took piano lessons but quit early. i did that as well. >> really. >> even though i stuck with music i quit very early. but you grew up -- this is very interesting. you grew up listening to classics like "runaround sue" and "dock of the bay." >> my mom and dad were huge -- you know, they loved '06s music so that was my first type of music growing up. i think my mom to this day holds it over my head that she told me "you're going to regret quitting piano." and i said "no mom i don't want to do it anymore." and she was right. >> dion and the belmonts. our daughter julia has seen "pitch perfect" conservatively eight or nine times. so one of the elements you were just talking about is kids who are different kids who are isolated from the group. so tell me about your group love is louder. >> yes. love is louder is a movement that i started about five and a half years ago. it started out as a movement of people who want to band together and feel connected and stand up tow the negative voices whether it be inside their own head or outside voices like bullying. and just finding a place to go where you don't feel alone, you feel supported with a group of people that have a similar story. what we've come to find out is so many people have a similar story. the more that you use social networking to feel connected and not so alone, you know, the better it helps everyone. >> your co-stars, fun to work with? it seems like the message itself is so relatable that it must have been a joy to shoot this. >> it was. i think that we all believe in the message of this movie and we all really want it to do well because it is one of those movies that makes you feel good. and we all really get along well and are very passionate about this movie. so it's a nice feeling to go to work and know that everyone is there for the right reasons. >> you can tell her we have a cameo. >> i've already told her. i think she read it somewhere. she said "dad are you in it?" i said "i don't remember much, i'm old." >> you are in "pitch perfect 2." >> i remember that. >> "pitch perfect 2" is in theaters today. brittany snow, a pleasure to meet you. >> congratulations and congratulations on love is louder. that is so important. we'll be right back with much more morning joe. out of 42 vehicles based on 6 different criteria, why did a panel of 11 automotive experts name the volkswagen golf motor trend's 2015 car of the year? 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[♪] the voice of the wild within. joining us now for this week's faith on fridays is theologian in residence and solomon's porch in minneapolis tony jones. he 's the author of the new book "did got kill jesus?" searching for love in history's most famous execution. mark halprin and bee i don't know -- bianna golodryga as well. so the question asks haas the meaning of the cross been perverted over time. and how has that happened? >> you know, there competing interpretations of the crucifix over the last 2000 years ever since jesus died on the cross. it started with paul in the new testament writing about it. since then theologians have bandied about what it means. here's a story i think illustrates that that you all might enjoy. i was watching inging "60 minutes" and a bloviator was on talking about --. let me ask do you define bloviator talke oror as someone other than you? >> there's one other bloviator. and he was on "60 minutes" talking about the death of jesus and he said "jesus was killed because he interrupted the tax flow to the temple. because the folks were being overtaxed, jesus in the temple said too many taxes and then the temple leaders had to shut him up." meanwhile, my wife is on the couch reading a book called "the world peace diet" that she has to read for her yoga teacher training and she says -- >> this is the same one i have to read for my break. >> i bet you've memorized that book. she says "you're not going to believe this." she reads to me a passage of that book that says jesus was killed because he was an animal liberationist vegan. >> so everybody projects what -- >> exactly. exactly. >> certain people go on "60 minutes" and they're anti-tax it's about taxes, if you're a vegan, etc., etc. etc. of course, we grew up though, in the baptist church and traditional evangelical churches believing we're the reason jesus died. that jesus died for our sins. >> so, yeah. and what i've done over the last three or four years is i've been in groups and i've said to people "how many have you heard jesus died for your sins? raise your hands." and then i say "explain how that works to me." groans among clergy and lay people. everyone believes it, few people can explain exactly how that works. >> so why don't you explain? >> well, there have been multiple versions of this over the years. some people have said jesus is like a giant electromagnet on the cross. the love of god when you see jesus on the cross is so overwhelming it draws you into god's love. other people have said you owe god something. this is what you and i grew up with. you owe god something because you can't go to heaven because you're imperfect. somebody has to pay the price. so this is what i call the payment model. other people say -- one of the newest theories is really interesting by this french anthropologist that says jesus is a mirror. when jesus is hanging on the cross we look at him and what's reflected back to us by god is the end of all our violence. >> so what's your theory? >> my theory is i have this very kind of intense theory that god really was in jesus really in jesus, and that god came in jesus because god had to bridge this gap between humanity and divinity. all the sacrificial systems and everything in the past, the prophecies had not worked so god comes what i kind of say he jumps into the deep end of the pulley fully incarnated in the person of jesus. then all the way to the end like paul writes in second phillipians, god humbled himself to the point of death on the cross. this is the ultimate act of solidarity between god and humanity. >> talk about the conflict even inside jesus because growing up you're like okay owe us is is all powerful, all knowing and god knew what was going to happen to him. then there's the moment you're a kid and jesus on the cross as he's about to die, horrific suffering and he says "my god my god why have you abandoned me?" and you sit there going, hey wait a second. >> i think this is the single most important line in all of scripture. "my god, why have you forsaken me?" because god experiences the absence of god. which we all experience. we all at some point look up into the stars and say "are we all alone? have we made this up?" even god in jesus experiences the absence of god. which i think unites god and humanity in a way they had not. >> and that's the power exactly of you saying god came here and jumped in the deep end of the pool so we could experience that. all right. tony, thank you. >> that was such a beautiful finally that i won't call you a bloviator. the book is "did god kill jesus." tony jones thank you very much. we'll be right back with much more morning joe. i sure hope so. with healthcare costs, who knows. umm... everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor.... can get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. ford is taking the ecoboost challenge all across america. here we go! check out escape and find out why ford is the brand more people buy and buy again. wow! that's a four-cylinder? i thought it was a six. i definitely feel the ecoboost in the ford escape. that's like a sports car. i just opened my trunk with my foot. i prefer, without a doubt, the escape over the cr-v. take the ecoboost challenge at your ford dealer. and for a limited-time get an escape with zero percent financing for sixty months plus seven-fifty cash if you own a ford or qualifying competitive vehicle. 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[ laughter ] >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. jeremy? >> i learned that jeb bush evidently handled the iraq war questions like his brother handled the war which, as you said, is not good. >> not a compliment. what did you learn sam? >> i just learned that sometimes your family connections can cause problems whether you're jeb, whether you're hillary. >> we all have family issues. >> gene? >> i really need to go back over my checking account and make sure i didn't make any $75,000 donations to the clinton foundation. that could be embarrassing. >> that could be embarrassing. we all learned also the passing of blues great b.b. king, what a great great artist, a great man. and today mika has just jetted in from the south of france and we're going to be having a know your value conference in washington, d.c. have a great weekend. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around, "the rundown" starts now. good morning i'm jose diaz-balart. breaking news this morning on "the rundown." a development the department dreaded -- the wreckage of a u.s. marine chopper missing in nepal has been found. we're expecting a press conference from the american embassy this kathmandu every moment where the american flag flies at half-staff this morning. the wreckage of that marine huey helicopter missing since tuesday found in an altitude of over 1,100 feet in the himalayas eight miles north of the town of charikot, nepal. here you see u.s. military helicopters returning to kathmandu this morning as the air is search for the chopper carrying six marines and two nepali troops comes to an end. so far no signs of survivors as a ground search

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