0 danielle adams was driving around the southeast with all of us trying to find a job, somebody said we'll do you a favor and cut off your unemployment benefits we would say thank you so much but we're good. and my danielle adams -- my danielle adams was working his ass off. we didn't have summer vacations for two years. we drove around trying to find a job. we couldn't afford it. so when rand paul says what he says i would just say as a member of the republican party that would like to get back into the white house again before i die, we need to be more careful about how we say those things because there are -- howard, you understand, there are two sides of this debate and we have to balance. >> the problem with people like rand paul may not be his republicanism but his privileged position as son of a physician who is doing pretty well in life and now a united states senator. we did welfare reform. we didn't do what gingrich did. >> it worked. >> but, it did reduce welfare roles in half. we allowed them to get credit for school and college and bettering themselves. this is, i would agree with your second argument. this is about a recession. we still are not back to the number of jobs we had in 2008. >> yeah. >> to cut people off is crazy. i think this cutting the food stamps thing is crazy. if you're worried people are cheating then put in some more regulations. vermont just got fined for not being tough enough in terms of giving out food stamps. i have no problem with that. in this recession let's not cut off food stamps. this girl on the front page of the "new york times." >> we're talking about poverty. >> working people fall into poverty. lose your job at 55 years old in this recession you're not getting another chance at a job. >> "new york times" report poverty rates are at all time highs. there's a lot of times in the past where identify been opposed to extending unemployment benefits. in fact throughout most of my adult life this is a different kind of recession. >> it is. and this article right here by andrea elliot front page of the "times" is why bill de blasio was elected. the tale of two cities as he put it. a lot of it, steve you have some charts here -- goes to affordable housing. so many elements to this story. it's not a new york city story it's a national story. mika said one in five american children live in poverty. >> it's a national story. what you have are a number of things that come together to create it. you had this terrible recession. you have the rising income equality which is fine for wealthy people to get wealthier but the people at the bottom have gotten poorer. you have reduction in food stamps. the average food stamp income has gone from $33 to $25 as part of this. you got a discussion about the minimum wage. >> you can't live on it. >> there's a whole bunch of things that come together in a perfect storm for people at the bottom and so they feel very picked upon and i think rightly so. >> joe, you would agree you got to make work pay in order to get people network. asking people to work for something they can't afford to support their family on that's not really how welfare reform works. >> i agree. republicans certainly, i think, willie, republicans can make the argument that we are where we are four years later because barack obama's policies have made things worse. if we want to make that argument we can make that argument. but it's harder for us. it does not help us, i don't think with swing voters to say we'll do you guys a favor and cut off all your unemployment benefits. >> i don't think that helps. i'm just thinking it doesn't. >> it's not a good message. steve, your first chart on the minimum wage is 7.25 right now. let's say you get 40 hours a week, 52 weeks that comes to $15,000 a year which puts you below the poverty line. >> one of the ways people are pushing back on this perfect storm against people at the bottom is by focusing on the minimum wage. the minimum wage is $7.25 as you see here on this chart. which is not oddly enough the lowest. these are all inflation adjusted. they go back to the 1960s. in the 1960s it was $9.50. went down in the '80s. oddly enough it was president bush's administration that pushed a three step increase that took it back up to $7.25. it's been declining in real terms since then. but because of what we've been talking about there's an enormous push behind getting some kind of a living wage or minimum wage passed. nothing much is happening in washington. president obama was in favor of a $9 minimum wage. now in favor of a $10.10-minute mum wage. not a lot going on in congress. in the states you can see there's a lot more going on. california recently passed a bill to raise the minimum wage from $8 to $10. the highest in the country. district of columbia they are about to pass, i think, legislation that would take it up over $11. doing this in concert with two maryland counties because you want to avoid the factor if you raise the minimum wage in one place, walmart threatened not to go to washington. this is a controversial subject. in the context the bottom fifth of american families have lost 15% of their real income since the year 1999. these are hurting people. >> sam stein, this is a central issue from extending unemployment benefits -- you know, progressives have always been pushing for higher minimum wages, conservatives have been talking about keeping the minimum wage down low. i'll tell you right now that you get a lot of conservative push back on capitol hill that when you're in a recession obviously that's the worst time to raise minimum wage because you're going between that and the new health care act, you are going to cost jobs. this makes people very angry. i went out shopping this weekend, started my christmas shopping this weekend. i talked like every business owner, i go to local businesses and i do it in part what's going on. how is your job. how is "your business." man, it's flat out there. it's tough. without me saying anything they talk about affordable care act, they talk about what small business owners talk about, tax, regulations. so talk about what you're hearing on the hill, what you're hearing at the white house. is there a chance to pass minimum wage nationally even through the senate? >> the minimum wage talk -- you hear that much more to the side than the unemployment insurance. steve and his chart noted minimum wage hiked in bush years 2007 the country had not gone through a recession and things were looking good. it took a huge amount of capital from the senators. ted kennedy keys speech pushed the bill over the top. i don't hear much talk or optimism that we're going to get a hike to $10.10. in fact you hear more skepticism about that. with respect to unemployment insurance, you're starting to see the debate heat up in part because it comes at a cruel time. it would be right after christmas, december 28th. you have about 1.3 million people losing benefits. the question is how do you pay for it. right now the cost is about $25 billion so these budget negotiations that are happening right now they are trying to figure out if they can find money to pay for that $25 billion year long extension or if they need to scale back the length of the extension or how many weeks you can get benefits. there's a lot of moving parts. there's a lot of pressure for them to act too. >> or you can just do what senator rand paul wants is delay a christmas miracle and yank them. all right. as mid-terms approach party leaders are trying to shore up on unified fronts. eric cantor urged virginia republicans to start making voters feel comfortable with the party. over kitchen table issues. quote, if we want to win, we must begin to offer solutions to problems that people face every day. this is very -- yeah. when our party is not united and when we fail to offer a plan that connects with people and the problems that they are having we lose at the ballot box. and when we lose at the ballot box we get policies like obama care. cantor noticed due to party infighting republicans fail to hold a single major statewide office in virginia. last time that happened was 1969. the same year neil armstrong walked on the moon. on the other side of the aisle there are signs that the unified front of the democratic party may be cracking. a week ago a "wall street journal" op-ed from a centrist think tank called third way targeted bill de blasio and elizabeth warren saying economic populism will be disastrous for democrats. the piece warns senator warren's plan to expand entitlements like social security and medicare by raising taxes and closing corporate loopholes is a dead end for democrats. liberal groups supporting warren are pushing back calling on high-profile democratic members of congress to disavow the piece. >> going to be interesting. republicans seem to be really starting -- be more unified after the disaster of the government shutdown and eric cantor speaking from a state where no republican holds an office. >> he's been fanning the social issues. you guys have a tea party problem. i was on a radio show not too long ago with ben weber and a woman from the tea party who is running against pete sessions. he's got the rhetoric. we don't have a problem. i don't think. third way are not players. >> you mean the democratic party is going to go further and further leftwich is awesome, by the way. i love that you guys are going to -- >> this is the straw man stuff. >> not straw man. we're talking about bill de blasio and elizabeth warren and mainstream democrats who are actually trying to move the party back to the center and they get killed. i love this. >> you're making this stuff up. >> i'm not making this stuff up. it was in the "new york times." >> stop it. blah, blah, blah, blah. >> you sit here with your carl bernstein, american banter, tea party nonsense and then the second i talk about -- you talk i was talking to so-and-so in a barber's chair and they said it was bad. i bring up a "new york times" article and you freak out saying i'm making stuff up. >> first, before we get too far ahead in virginia the next candidate up is mark warner who is a very centrist democrat, a very reasonable guy, very popular in virginia. i think it will be a while -- >> he won't have any challenges from the left. >> no challenges from the left. secondly howard and i would be happy to engaging a short debate over that third wave piece. i think the points they make are completely right. you cannot have a party that is proposing all kinds of things that we can't pay for, that are fiscally irresponsible. >> insane, expanding medicare at a time when medicare and medicaid is going bankrupt. >> social security. >> it's not the same thing. >> expanding entitlements. >> boy that sure is great. why don't we -- >> you are taking stuff and expanding it. >> no, i'm not. >> the democratic party has moved -- you're a left winger. al from -- >> al from is no longer a player. >> not for al from. we would not have had bill clinton and -- >> that's ridiculous. fit were not for bill clinton -- >> it's three way argument. >> hat makes me sad is when democrats like this fight and they are proving the point. if you don't agree with the hard left wing of the party that my dear friend howard dean represents then you just get attacked. >> i'm scared. i think bill clinton put our party right back where it belongs in the center. so i want us to stay there. >> let's go to sam stein. >> policies that we can -- >> sam, nothing makes me more sad -- >> than when democrats fight. >> you must be crying inside. >> yeah. >> so, just a point on the third op-ed. this notion of expanding social security. first of all if you look at any public opinion poll people favor it. that's because people like having their dessert along with the their veggies. senator mark begich is a co-sponsor to expand social security. it's a legitimate policy. >> he's up for re-election. >> it's a legitimate policy. it's one way to make sure the social safety net is there because it expands the viability of social security. if you want to make the policy merits you have to look at that. you can have the debate over whether it's the right politics for the party to go down that right. elizabeth warren has done pretty well for herself. >> i hope that elizabeth warren and joe de blasio and that wing of the democratic party they need to grow, they need to expand. i want -- >> finally we agree on something. >> i want them to expand, willie -- >> you guys are so wrong. >> republicans will get back in the white house again. >> you know what? >> voters will -- >> i'm just saying you're underestimating, i think, what will be a major player and -- >> i love her. you know i love her. her politics, man, i hope the whole democratic party goes over there. >> me too. i'm with you. >> those holes will run through. >> closing corporate loopholes i'm sure that will play badly in the midwest. >> let's close corporate loopholes. you don't have to raise social security benefits without proposing,000 pay for them. >> and not rip people off which is what happens right now. coming up on morning snow, senator joe manchin, former presidential candidate in jon huntsman will be here, leigh gallagher and mark mckinnon. mike allen is here. what happened? did somebody club him? top stories in the political playbook coming up. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.