Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20120529

cloud of war we can see the light of a new day on the horizon. especially for those who have lost a loved one, this chapter will remain open long after the guns have fallen silent. the patriot that is rest wr fighting for many things, for their family, their flag, but above all, they were fighting for you. as long as i'm president, we will make sure you and your loved ones receive the benefits you earned and the respect you deserve. america will be there for you. [ applause ] >> good morning. a beautiful sunrise over new york city. it is tuesday, may 29th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have national affairs editor for new york magazine john heilemann. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner is joining us as well. did you have a good weekend, joe? >> i did. >> nice family time? >> i had a great weekend. a lot of family members as guests in the house. and, of course, what we were all talking about, willie geist, is how the celtics got ripped off last night. >> you can't blame the refs for that one. >> yes, you can. it was tied at halftime. some of the worst officiating i have seen. >> lebron and wade had something to do with that. >> did you see the technical? >> they missed both free throws. didn't matter. >> there was a lot of "t" in that. >> touchy "ts." it's unbelievable. it's unbelievable. the yankees did well last night. >> no, they didn't. i don't think red sox are talking trash right now. >> did i not say if we finished ahead of the orioles it would be a good year. >> so, anyway, there's an awful lot going on here. mika, on saturday, on sunday, news of this absolutely horrific slaughter coming out of the syria as, you know, i have said on this show repeatedly, we have to be much more cautious and restraint with troop force than we have. not only in the bush administration, but the obama administration. at some point, we cannot allow to continue in syria what is going on in syria. at some point, it sounds like the chairman of the joint chiefs is preparing america for a military action against assad, who just slaughtered over 100 syrians, killed over 50 children indiscrimina indiscriminantly. 10,000 syrians have been slaughtered over the past year and a half. at some point, unless america wants to look like hypocrites, we are going to have to do something. we can't just sit back. we move very quickly in libya. >> yeah. >> but there's oil in libya. we are not moving in syria. at some point, we have to answer why. >> i saw your blog on that over the weekend. let's start there. the meeting with the syrian president,al sad today, after a weekend of bloody violence. more than 150 civilians are dead across the country. as many as 40 people were killed sunday. that came days after more than 100 people, mostly women and children, were killed in the town of hula by syrian government forces. senator john mccain came out blaming the obama administration saying nearly 10,000 people have died. this is a brutal regime. this administration has a feckless foreign policy. it cries out for american leadership. american leadership is not there. a strong statement. not sure it's completely fair. probably very easy to say. presidential candidate mitt romney said after nearly a year and a half of slaughter, it's far past time for the united states to begin to lead. the united states should work with partners to organize and arm syrian opposition groups to defend themselves. the bloodshed makes clear our goal must be a new syrian government that contributes to peace in the middle east and represents the brave syrian people. we can stop there for a moment. you know what -- >> the chairman of the joint chiefs was on cnn yesterday as well. i think this is the president, not because of what john mccain is saying or what mitt romney is saying but because he knows, i believe, it is time to let assad know that time for talking is over. military action may be around the corner. this is what the chairman of the joint chief said on sunday. >> my job is to provide the chief with options. i think the military option should be considered. i think -- but, my preference, of course, always, as a senior military leader would be the international community could find ways of increasing the pressure on asaid to do the right thing and step aside. >> you have the chairman saying he must step aside. they said assad must go. the chairman was on cbs yesterday. we are going to get that sound in a little bit. on cbs this morning, he said that what happened was absolutely deplorable and sickening. it seems to me the rhetoric is ratcheting up. i don't think killing innocent syrians is going to be sufficient. >> i'm not sure the peace plan or pressure you can put on after this. >> let me ask you this question. should assad be allowed to talk to kofy annan as part of the peace keeping mission two days after he murders 50 children? two days -- i mean why are we playing this game with him? he murdered 50 children and 100 syrians while this peace plan was already under way. >> well, look, joe. first, we want assad out of there. that's priority number one. there are efforts to have a yemeni type solution. secondly, if i can channel you for a second. you have been adamantly opposed to american involvement in many of these places. syria has a much more formidable army than libya. they are a satellite state of russia. so, what is it you would do, given this unacceptable situation that i think you have stated. what would you do if you were the commander in chief? how would you address this? >> work aggressively. obviously work aggressively with allies and look at every option for army opposition. you could, leading from behind, if you could get the europeans and others on board, you could actually have air strike that is would protect civilians. it's what we did. john heilemann, you are saying no. >> i think the view of -- this is why i think he's saying what he's saying. they have the conclusion that air strikes is not enough and you can't do this the way you did libya. there's not really a formidable resistance to arm. it's not like in libya where there was a well formed opposition with a territory it was protecting. the syrian opposition is all over the place. it doesn't have a stronghold. the notion of a no-fly zone doesn't work. you are literally, the choice is, you want to arm the opposition, you are talking putting troops on the ground. it's a boots on the ground or not. where the rubber meets the road. it's a powerful, humanitarian case. assad is a horrible dictator. this is in for a dime, in for a dollar thing. you can't do it in a cheap way that doesn't involve people, boots on the ground. >> steve, also, this is -- this adds one of the reasons why i have been saying over the past three years the united states shouldn't triple down in afghanistan was because strategically, the payback didn't make sense. i knew three years ago you could triple the number of troops in afghanistan. you still wouldn't strategically be able to make a big impact, not only in afghanistan, but globally, because al qaeda has been shattered in afghanistan. it has spread to yemen and other parts. the investment didn't make sense strategically. john just talked about, there is a great humanitarian reason to go in. i think -- i'm not saying you are a progressive, but, we usually have, over the past 20 years we have two reasons we go into war. for humanitarian reasons, look at somalia, bosnia, kosovo, then strategic reasons. there, even though failed, iraq. afghanistan. for the first five or six years. this is a case where the two come together. i didn't think bosnia and kosovo made sense because nobody in the white house could explain what was the compelling u.s. interest that was worth the death of 18-year-old boys and girls. here -- but, for humanitarian reasons. yes, they had a great impact. here, you have both coming together. you have the strategic. one of our two greatest enemies in the middle east, if not on the planet and a humanitarian calling for the united states to be the beacon of freedom. >> i'm not questioning either of the objectives. they are worthy objectives and worthy of the united states as the leader in the world. the only country able to project power in a democratic way. i'm respending to what you said about the costs of american involvement. the human costs, financial costs. i think john's analysis is right. you are talking a major, major -- >> i'm not. join said it has to be all in or not in at all. according to some people at the pentagon, that's not my understanding but, you know, we can talk about that later. we are stretched militarily. there's no doubt we are stretched militarily. i have been saying that even with regards to iran, a country who, i think is the greatest threat on the globe. we can't afford to start our third full scale war especially against a muslim country. here, i understand it's a bad option. here, we can't sit back and watch assad slaughter 10,000 more people. to throw it back at you, how it is that under bill clinton, when this many people weren't slaughtered you had everybody rising saying we must go into bosnia and kosovo. i heard themes saying the same thing for gadhafi. how is it not justification here when more people are being slaughtered and gunned down and more people are being killed and it continues this week. it's been going on for a year and a half now. >> one of the things i know you have to balance these things. there's humanitarian -- >> by the way, let me say quickly. i don't want anybody at home, i am not criticizing president obama. i want everybody at home to understand that is so important. the president is juggling so many things this is one of those mornings most americans wouldn't want to be within 1,000 miles of his job. i am not criticizing the president. it is all about balance. it's a tough balance. we have no idea what he's balancing right now. >> think about libya versus syria. if you say one is a worse humanitarian disaster, which syria is. libya was an achievable goal. they felt there was a way to get it done. syria, you have what we were talking ability plus militarizing a conflict. they are very wary and appropriately so of militarizing a lot of sectarian elements and turning syria into a -- you know, a cancerous situation that can spread outside the borders quickly. there's a lot of weight on that. libya was much more isolated. this is much more difficult one to deal with. >> mika, what is not an option. the president must lead from behind. if action is taken in syria, it just can't be an american action. it cannot be an american invasion. we have to be dragged into it like we were -- >> well, i mean, so you are saying everything. we have to be dragged into it, you are saying we have to act. the president has a lot on his plate. it's not just him. senator john mccain went right after him saying he screwed it up. i'm not sure that's fair, either. if i could finish -- >> first of all, senator mccain had a different world view on military action than any of us at this table. >> it's easy for anyone, with all due respect for his service to the country to criticize after a horrific event to say we should have done, we should have done. had we done, we would have been criticized for everything you and i and we have been talking about pertaining to afghanistan and being completely overweighed with our involvement over the past nine months, two years, three years, five years. there's a humanitarian reason not to pull out of afghanistan, as well. these are issues we face with every country we are involved in. no doubt this is horrific. but, i don't think it's as simple as just now saying we should have done something. it's terrible, terrible, terrible event. it really is. but, i wouldn't question the leadership of this president, who i think our next story would show is fairly aggressive. >> i hope you say the same thing of democrats as when there's a republican president. >> absolutely. >> come on. come on. would you like me to get the quote that is were said about george w. bush over his eight years. you are sad and stunned that a republican came out and criticized the president. if we want to agree politics end at the water's edge. sign me up. i will sign that document. the crap said about george w. bush whose foreign policy i have criticized in great detail since 2005, then i'll sign that document. don't act shocked if john mccain is upset this morning. he's a neoconservative. we disagree with it. >> john mccain is not the mainstream position of the republican party and john mccain, with all due respect, his service to the country, he wants to fight wars everywhere. he's much more aggressive than the senator of the republican -- the part is about the u.s. troops in a variety of places or most of his party would be. >> define my shock. the shock is that people are saying we should have done so much more with syria. someone like senator john mccain. it's so much easier to say. >> i think, the real point is what we are trying to do around the table is have a rational, sensible conversation. what do we do now? the cards are what they are. we played the cards. what we should have done is kind of irrelevant. the question is, we are where we are. this is the situation. you have a guy murdering these people. john pointed out the differences between this and libya, our limitations to act at the edges. this is not bosnia or places to send in bombers and clean this up. we are faced with a bunch of really, really hard charges or choices. what i was probing about with you, joe, what would you do since you are in the center on these issues. you recognize america's role in the world, what do we do? >> get back to me tomorrow. i'll call the white house. i'm serious. i'll call around and see. i think, though, let me throw it back at you to say is it an option for the united states to allow, to permit, to stand back and basically play the role of pontius pilate while assad continues slaughtering children and 100 civilians with indiscriminate shelling. this is not a rhetorical device. i think, if you start at that position, does anybody believe we can allow this to remain? >> i don't believe we should. i supported the things we did in bosnia and kosovo. i find it unimaginable we are going to send boots on the ground. >> we can't. >> is there something in between that works? >> i don't know. perhaps there's a kill list. >> to make it all the more complicated, you can't do it alone. russia is not ever going to sign off on this. >> right. >> china is with russia on this. when we try to get -- there was a full international con census behind libya. there's nothing like that with the foes and friends in the world. china and russia do not want that. >> by the way, is the reason, willie, why bosnia and kosovo were nato operations, not u.n. operations. russia was allies with them. >> russia and china are the reason we have what we have now, the watered down cease-fire which no one observes, servely not the government. it's not just shelling of the villages. it's the door-to-door massacre of children, women and children. you don't have to go too far on youtube to see images. the question is, bill clinton talked about rwanda was the greatest regret of his presidency. i'm not comparing this to that. how long can the world and how long can president obama and the u.n. watch these images flood in every day. >> i don't think they can. >> i don't think they can. i'm surprised annan is there. i'm not saying shut down all peace talks. i'm saying 48 hours of these actions were taken, you don't send a guy that put together a peace plan, a cease-fire in two days after the slaughter. you let him freeze. we have just given him -- we have just given him a fig leaf of respectability this morning. >> there are u.n. observers on the ground and the concern for their safety at the u.n. is high. i get where you are coming from. part of annan's mission is to make sure the actual human beings are not molested and harmed in any way. he's got another objective. >> i understand. there are other ways to do that, too. >> i hear what you are saying. >> a lot of tough choices. mika, anybody that suggests this president is weak on foreign policy should read "the new york times" story about the kill list that he's been receiving. liberals hate it. i guarantee you, inpendants and swing voters will not hate the fact this president is as engaged as he is. >> i think that was my response to senator john mccain's comments because it just really, i don't know. i don't know how you call him weak. he's not weak. >> mika, you are acting shocked. again -- this is john mccain and lindsey graham and joe lieberman's world view. there are other neoconservative that is share this view. we do not at this table. you can be shocked every day that john mccain thinks we should do everything in our power to hunt down al qaeda and our enemies and kill people. >>itis not a game. >> mika, stop. >> what? i'm not really saying anything. >> i think it's disrespectful to say it is a game. we can disagree with john mccain. we can disagree with neoconservatives. when you say it's a political game, it is not. if you believed we should have gone into syria six months ago, would you not this morning be saying if we would have gone into syria six months ago -- i think we disagree, but is it a game? >> i think it is. if we had taken swift, heavy action in syria from the get go, can you imagine the outcry -- >> fine. you can say he is strategically off base. but, again, you are saying this morning he's doing it for cynical, political reasons. i don't think he is. i think he really believes. >> i think you are right about john mccain. here is the question. do you think mitt romney adopting that posture is cynical or deep in his heart deep conservative -- >> it's cynical. >> okay. >> the thing is mitt romney is data driven. i have said this and republicans can be upset. he doesn't have a world view. if he had a world view in foreign policy, he wouldn't be bouncing around like a ball in a pinball machine like over china, russia, syria, afghanistan. he does not have a fixed world view. >> it's easy for john mccain to say this if he's not in power. if he were in the president's seat, faced with do i send american soldiers into syria, do i bomb or do this or do that, i think he would get to a different answer on this. >> george w. bush didn't. >> well -- okay. >> coming up next -- exclusive first look at the top stories in the political playbook. turning from hope to fear. also, again, this remarkable story on the front page of the new york times. president obama's secret kill list where he insists on picking out the people we target for killing. first, todd santos with a check of the forecast. >> at least a few areas in the southeast, a difficult morning travel wise on portions of i-75 in florida. 5i as well. heavy rainfall. upwards of 14 inches of rain thanks to tropical depression beryl. georgia and south carolina today. we track the system. right now, 30-mile-per-hour sustained winds to the north. we track it to the northeast. you live off the outer banks keep a look on the forecast. it could go into a tropical storm. boston, under .2 mile visibility. we'll talk about thunderstorms for the afternoon. this country was built by working people. the economy needs manufacturing. machines, tools, people making stuff. companies have to invest in making things. infrastructure, construction, production. we need it now more than ever. chevron's putting more than $8 billion dollars back in the u.s. economy this year. in pipes, cement, steel, jobs, energy. we need to get the wheels turning. i'm proud of that. making real things... for real. ...that make a real difference. ♪ three words dad, e-trade financial consultants. they'll hook you up with a solid plan. wa-- wa-- wait a minute; bobby? bobby! what are you doing man? i'm speed dating! [ male announcer ] get investing advice for your family at e-trade. droid does. and does it launch apps by voice while learning your voice ? launch cab4me. droid does. keep left at the fork. does it do turn-by-turn navigation ? droid does. with verizon, america's largest 4glte network and motorola, whatever you want to do... droid does. 30 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. we start with "the new york times." a story we have been trying to get to this morning offering a detailed account of how president obama targets terrorists. the president has been personally overseeing a top secret process for determining which al qaeda suspects should be placed on a kill list as part of the u.s. drone war. it's determined by officials who sit by biographies of al qaeda suspec suspects. those nominated are sent to president obama for approval. he personally signs off on every strike in yemen and somalian and pakistan. while u.s. manufacturing is rebounding, the wages for factory workers are failing to keep up with inflation. that's one reason manufacturers have been able to add jobs that probably wouldn't exist otherwise. >> i have to say, this is a critical point that gets lost in this discussion. >> you are talking about the plant -- >> where they brought 2,000 jobs to america. tax subsidies. $14.50 starting wage. you read the stories about manufacturing coming back to america. it's great, but coming at a high price in wages. daily mail, more positive news for aspirin users. the study finds regular use of aspirin may help reduce the risk of skin cancer by 15%. >> my doctor, told me -- it's ari. >> he thinks he's a doctor. he thinks he's a lot of things. >> i asked him. i say this to people, i asked should i take a baby aspirin every day and he said are you a baby? i said no. he said take two aspirin. take one aspirin for your heart, take one aspirin for cancer. >> he would not stop siaying that. >> since he told me that at the four seasons in beverly hills, where he takes house calls, i have seen one study after another talking about all the different types of cancer that an aspirin a day could help prevent. >> i started taking aspirin for the first time for that. i'm not worried about my heart. the cancer thing scares me. >> it must have to do with circulation. it helps circulation and that helps the whole system. >> ari is such a good xun kay tor, when dr. zeke comes on -- >> have a doctors are in segment? >> we are going to. last week -- last week, we had dr. nancy coming on talking about digital exams. >> 22 seconds in. >> we started talking about -- we started talking about diabetes. she was still talking about rectal exams. we are going to try it this week and talk about something else. maybe we'll talk about aspirin. >> digital exams. ratings gold. >> they love it. >> in the morning while eating their bran. >> the oldest truth in television. >> exactly. >> speaking of digital exams, i don't know. >> it's a great segway. >> who do we have? perfect. >> jim is with us. sorry about the segway. >> hees looking healthy. >> i take my aspirin every day. >> you look dark and tan. is that the result of your attendance of a wedding of a political great over the weekend? >> it was. the royal wedding. tom brokaw with an amazing toast. >> that must have been 22 minutes long. >> p congratulations to them. let's talk about the lead story this morning. sarah palin, her new approach to the political scene. she's made a couple endorsements. what's the deal? >> i mean, the new palin approach. she's not like she was before. she's getting involved in senate primaries. she backs a winner in nebraska. a lot of republicans got that one wrong. she's backing hatch going against the tea party members in utah. tonight, ted cruz who is a tea party candidate and surging, winning the backing of steven moore over the wall street journal and other conservative who is like him. if ted cruise wins in the texas republican primary or forces a run off, it's more evidence that richard murdock, remember what he did, it's part of the trend, the new reality for republicans the tea party candidates will do much, much better than anybody with the blessing of the republican candidate. >> are we giving sarah palin too much credit? >> the thing i give her credit for is it seems like she is slowly maturing as a political operative, if you will. she continues to have her gig on fox news. if you look at who she's endorsing, she's not checking the most conservative or bombastic candidate. she's picking the winner and trying to be strategic. she knows her name brings money and attention. orrin hatch has been grateful for her support. it got cruise's attention. it brought in real fund raising and excitement in his race when he needed it. >> john, i have noticed, she step sboos a race where you have unknowns and she separates the person she endorses from the pack. what is it about sarah palin and her support that helps them win? >> she drives a ton of news coverage. her base, the palin base is real. it's enthusiastic and listens to what she says. >> they vote in primaries. >> we'll see how she does in texas. jim, thanks. >> take care. >> go back to whatever you were doing before. game one of the eastern conference finals have lebron and wade looking good. sports ahead. [ jennifer ] what if i can't do it? what if i can't lose the weight? what if weight watchers can't help me? what if i'm not ready for change? what if i fall back into old habits? what if i lose control? what if i gain it all back? what if there's always an excuse why i can't? what if i can't follow through? what if i fail? shhh. there's only one voice worth listening to and that's the one saying you can do this. i'm standing here still in control of my weight with weight watchers, telling you to believe in that voice. join for $1. weight watchers. believe. because it works. join for $1. free-credit-score-dot-com'sur boargonna direct you ♪ts ♪ ♪ to check your credit score before it gets too late ♪ ♪ and you end up strapped for cash ♪ ♪ patching your board with duct tape ♪ ♪ so hit free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ find out what credit's about ♪ ♪ or else you could be headed for a credit wipeout ♪ offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. all right. let's do some sports. less than 48 hours, the celtics travel to miami against the heat. the game was tied at the half. in the third, miami takes over. wade hits lebron for the lay up. heat up five. they are still in the third. watch the ball fake. looks good, right? here comes lebron for the block. wade hits the bank shot off the glass. fadeaway. two of 22. lebron, his fifth playoff game with at least 30 points. heat and celtics play game two. the spurs -- >> do you think the refs are going to work hard in the second half to make sure it's not close? >> yeah. >> they want the heat. >> they want the heat in the nba finals. >> we used to say that about the bulls. it never worked. >> they are going to do whatever it takes. the spurs look for 20 consecutive victories if they beat the thunder tonight. walk-off baseball. yankees on the road against the angels. two hot teams trying to stay that way. seventh inning, russell martin, a shot down the third baseline. ties to game to eighth in the seventh inning. in the bottom of the ninth, the yankees bull pen is struggling. trumbo goes deep to left. a walk-off home run for the angels. angels win, 9-8. they won seven in a row. >> how much are they missing mariano? >> a lot. >> trying to get back to the .500 mark. game tied a. strikeout to end the inning. the umpire said the ball hit the ground. it did not. the tigers coach comes out. new life. he lines an rbi single to center. sox score three. they take a 4-1 lead. watch dustin here. diving stop and throw to get danny worth. jammed his thumb. red sox hold on to win. 7-4. the updated standings. still only 4 1/2 out. >> leeland was right, it was a bad call. it allowed the sox to rally. >> all for the best. >> baltimore and tampa tied for first. coming up, the must read opinion pages. now you can apply sunblock to your kids' wet skin. neutrogena® wet skin kids. ordinary sunblock drips and whitens. neutrogena® wet skin cuts through water. forms a broad spectrum barrier for full strength sun protection. wet skin. neutrogena®. in here, great food demands a great presentation. so at&t showed corporate caterers how to better collaborate by using a mobile solution, in a whole new way. using real-time photo sharing abilities, they can create and maintain high standards, from kitchen to table. this technology allows us to collaborate with our drivers to make a better experience for our customers. 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[ major nutrition ] ensure high protein... ensure! nutrition in charge! tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about that 401(k) you picked up back in the '80s. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 like a lot of things, the market has changed, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and your plans probably have too. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 so those old investments might not sound so hot today. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we'll give you personalized recommendations tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 on how to reinvest that old 401(k) tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and help you handle all of the rollover details. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and bring your old 401(k) into the 21st century. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 live shot of the white house. the sun comes up over washington, d.c. welcome back to "morning joe" at 46 past the hour. time for the must read opinion pages. heilman, you have the cover story in new york magazine. congratulations. seasoning proud of you. >> ahh. >> nice. >> i actually mean it. you call it hope, the sequel. to a real degree, 2008s conditioned of hope is poised to become the candidate of fear. for many democrats this is fine and dandy. they believe with the romney agenda, there's plenty to be scared of. the new obama posture is cause for concern. from the gay marriage decision to the onslaught on bain, they see the team too nakedly political putting at risk obama's greatest asset, his likability with voters in the middle who will ultimately decide his fate. >> really, compared to his competition, i don't mean the likability, but divisiveness and bain as well as the gay marriage. >> i think there's some concern. first of all, the president is going to run a negative campaign. i say that with not moral condemnation. it's the facts. i spent a month talking to every senior adviser on the campaign team and they are up front to the degree they are going to strip the bark off romney. for some democrats, there are many that say great. that's what has to happen. the romney republican agenda is scary. let's attack them with both barrels. there are some other democrat who is think it's off brand. they look at obama and say there is a unifying post partisan, you know, hope and change from 2008 and that for the key voters in the middle of the electorate. 95% of democrats are going to vote for or against him. in the middle of the electorate, he looks like just another politician. that is, they work to his disadvantage. it's the view of some democrats in business and politics. >> do you think he has a choice, joe -- >> we all have a choice. free will around all that. >> yeah. >> you know, the thing is, democrats, i think john, this plays into the democrats nagging, well, their frustration. i hear it from democrats. you republicans, you know how to play dirty. >> right. >> we sit back and we are wimps and let you beat the hell out of us every four years. we have to fight back. for democrats that feel that way, it feeds into their instincts, what they want to happen. i think the thing the president is going for, his likability. look at the polls, he's much more likable than romney. he dissolves into this, that advantage goes away. i say it without moral judgment. i don't think it's a wise, political move. he's mr. hope and change. >> the personal attributes apart from who can fix the economy. from strength, shares your values, likable. he's ahead of romney. they are precious assets. the question is, if you run, if you are really running a 95% negative campaign from now to election day, what does it do to 8% of voters in nine states who aren't proobama or romney and trying to figure it out. what does that do to the perception of this guy? many voters believing he was not like every other politician. what does that do? i don't know the answer. >> how do you run a hope and change campaign. you should be running on your record. in a quiet room, i could convince you his record is good. in the soundbyte world of the campaign, it's hard to explain the record in a positive, clear, persuasive way. >> beyond the autoindustry, the rest of it is complicated. they have done $25 million ad buy that spawned his record. my guess is, those are the last dollars we are going to see promoting his record. almost every other dollar is going to be attacking romney as unacceptable, disqualified all terntive. >> david plouffe says i would rather be us than them. what makes them most nervous? >> the fact they are going to be the first presidential incumbent to get outspend by 30% or 40% if you take it all in. we are going to see $2.5 billion spent in this race between seven and nine states. it's like a test tube experiment. we have never seen anything like that. you never want to get outspent by 40% if you are an incumbent. >> you know how you see thing that is don't make sense like internet start up companies. i tell you what makes no sense. just in my gut. a president saying he's not going to run on his record or people saying we are not going to talk about our record, we are going to talk about our challenger. it doesn't sell. they have to sell the past four years or they lose. >> we'll be right back with willie's news you can't use. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and we dream up ♪ all the best stuff ♪ and we can make it up ♪ cause we were made for each other ♪ ♪ for always ♪ oh oh ♪ for always support team usa and show our olympic spirit right in our own backyard. so we combined our citi thankyou points to make it happen. tom chipped in 10,000 points. karen kicked in 20,000. and by pooling more thankyou points from folks all over town, we were able to watch team usa... 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( grunts ) cool. you can video call on skype... send photos. yeah, okay. yeah, let's do it. get $100 off any motorola 4g lte smartphone, like the droid 4 now just $99.99. verizon. it's time for all zuckerberg news. >> oh, would you. >> last weekend, mark zuckerberg was married to his long-time girlfriend. there's the couple. now, we know they are on their honeymoon in rome. he's got $19 billion, give or take. where do you take your bride? >> where would you go? >> on your honeymoon in rome. >> where would i go in rome? >> mcdonalds. >> no, you wouldn't. >> you being nars think alike. look at this. he's taking his lovely new bride out for a -- is that a mcchicken sandwich. a ten-piece or six-piece? also, a strange clip that's been circulating around the web. a chinese piece of propaganda about the strength of the chinese police force. this is in shanghai. watch the background for a cameo here. >> okay. [ speaking foreign language ] >> take the tape back now. spot shadow. he was on a trip last march in shanghai. that's zuckerberg with his then girlfriend. they yanked this fattage. they caught him appearing in a chinese propaganda film, coming to theaters near you. still ahead, tina brown comes back to join us. we'll be right back. let's play indoors this weekend. all we need is a couple of gallons of our hardest-working paint... ...from the home depot. the place that gives us more top-rated brands than anywhere else... ...at prices that won't shake up our budget. let's make a one-wall statement... ...or tackle a total room takeover ...with paint that'll get the job done in fewer trips up and down the ladder. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get $5 off gallon cans of our best paint brands now through may 30th. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement available only with liberty mutual auto insurance, if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? i never believed i'd be in control of my weight. [ whistles ] ♪ but here i am. still in control. loving how i eat. loving just walking. not stressing at all about my weight. ♪ if you want it, you got it weight watchers made me believe i could do it. join for $1 and you will too. weight watchers. believe. because it works. i wish i could tell you the world is a safe place today. itis not. we have two courses to follow. one is the pathway of europe, shrink our military smaller an smaller to pay for our social needs. the other is to commit to preserve america as the strongest military in the world, second to none with no comparable power anywhere in the world. [ cheers and applause ] >> we choose that course -- we choose that course in america not just so we win wars but so we can prevent wars because a strong america is the best deterrent to war ever invented. >> top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." john heilemann and steve rattner are still with us. joining us, the editor and chief of the daily beast, tina brown. good to see you. >> great to be here. >> we'll start with an update on syria. first, human rights officials with the united nations say most of the 108 syrian civilians killed last week were shot execution style inside their homes. the findings seem to support claims by survivor who is say militia men went door-to-door through villages gunning down entire families. at least 49 children are among the dead. >> that makes it even more -- more stunning and outrageous and shows this is a regime that does not have the moral authority to lead its country. i mean, execution style, going door-to-door, knocking down doors and executing at least 50 children. >> it's not quite rwanda yet, but echoes of it. >> it's moving that way. you talked about it. let me show you the headline, actually, of the wall street journal editorial. a lot of people are hearing this news and are going to realize that the united states is going to have to do something. this is what the wall street journal says. the united nations is complicit in the murders as when they stood by and did nothing. they massacred thousands of bosnians in 1995. at least in libya, he led from behind. in syria, he's falling behind. becoming an accomplice to assad. >> a powerful argument, but doesn't say what he should do. what do we do? this editorial doesn't say what he should do other than not let u.n. -- >> it's overheated. >> whether it's overheated or not. i don't know what the right option is there. i hate this as much as anybody, the idea. but, what do we do? >> a lot of people were saying that -- bosnia back in the 1990s, including myself saying we shouldn't get involved in this because it will explode into a regional civil war. >> one of the things i find distastful is annans talking ab peace and talking about sitting down a tables while in giving cover to keeps on behavid is somebody you can talk to. it's really been a horrible sight to see him out there. >> it has been. >> i tell you again, i go back to last hour, the fact he went back two days after you had over 100 people, now we find out -- >> including babies. >> gunned down execution style and two days later you are sitting down with that same government. sorry, there are other ways to protection u.n. peace keepers. this makes his entire united nations effort illegitimate, look illegitimate. this president is not going to be able to hide behind a united nations peace plan anymore that is illegitimate. they are providing cover to assad. you know what, steve? we have -- i don't know if you know this, mika and i have not been allowed in the top secret briefings inside the west wing but one thing that we do know that standing by and doing nothing is no longer an option. the time is passed. it's passed now with the news that syrian troops went door-to-door and shot -- the militias went by and massacred over 100 people, including 50 children. >> they are getting criticism with a strong statement about what's happening in syria. first, let's hear what general martin dempsey had to say. >> chairman of the joint chiefs. >> the events in syria over the weekend are horrific, atrocious, really. i expect the international community that pressure will mount. i think diplomatic pressure will succeed military options. that's my job, by the way, options, not policy. we'll be prepared to provide options if asked to do so. >> how long does the president -- how long is the president allowed by events to stand by as the slaughter continues? >> what he has to try to do is what he did with libya, get the other allies to come in and help to lead. i know one of the things france called for because he was involved with libya is david cameron is perhaps someone to turn to to provide the leadership coverage and do something. i don't think cameron has the means or political capital with him now in the middle of a huge austerity moment. i think obama is going to have to do something. what he does is going to be interesting to see. he's in a terrible spot adds steve said. there's no budget to do this stuff anymore. >> john? >> he's in a terrible position. what they have been trying to do is trying to exhaust every avenue to try to end the slaughter without militarizing the situation. probably around this table, where we generally have been around military intervention in the middle east, it's a worthy goal. they have never taken military action off the table. the argument is, all the things people call for, arm the opposition, have no fly zones, humanitarian corridors. in syria, all those things, to make them work is going to require boots on the ground. if we are ready to do that, then we may be ready to do that. there's not a cheap out here. there's not a cost free way. they have been trying to not introduce new troops on the ground. in a war wary country. all that stuff, they have been trying to avoid that. it's a worthwhile thing to try to avoid. we may be at the point where it's not avoidable anymore. >> as steve brought up and people who watch this show every day, there are a few, might be surprised by my position. it's not only been do not get involved in another war, bring the troops home from iraq. bring the troops hope from afghanistan. start reinvesting in this country instead of others. you know what? we don't operate in a predictable world and we can't keep our feet in cement. when this comes up over the weekend, i think it's very obvious. without talking to anybody right now, i know inside the white house they are saying the same thing. this is no longer acceptable. we lived -- syria, we had a strategy focused on syria to try to do exactly what you were saying, john. when syria -- when assad's militia's went door-to-door and shot down over 100 people including 50 children, well, we entered a new faze of the crisis. >> it's not about rwanda. it went on and on before anything was done. that was a tremendous embarrassment to bill clinton. >> what happens steve this weekend if there's another rampage and 100 more syrians are gunned down? this is not in rwanda -- >> don't get me wrong, i think we need to do something. we have a role in the world. dealing with genocide is one of them. my problem is the cold hard reality of what the options are. what john laid out seems to be right. i'm not a military strategist but it makes sense in what we can and can't do. the size of the syrian military, et cetera. what is it that we do? we are against annan, we are against this and that. what are we for. >> i have a great idea. bring richard haass on tomorrow. we'll sit and listen to him. can you be here? >> let me get to the front page of the new york times. >> also, in "newsweek", this article broke. >> it's offering a detailed account of how president obama deals with terrorists. the president, the president who argued against the use of torture and wanted to close gitmo has been overseeing a top secret process of which suspects should be placed on a kill list as part of a drone war. it's made by officials who sift through biographies of al qaeda suspects. they are then sent to the president for approval. the president then signs off on every strike in yemen and somalia. according to aides, president obama believes he should take moral responsibility for the attacks. in "newsweek," the latest edition, there's an article of how obama learned to kill. >> yeah. dan, a writer who wrote a brilliant book called "kill or capture" is about the education of the president. having to realize this constitutional lawyer who came finds himself in a position of killing. there's the former vice president or vice chairman cartwright on who obama has become close because he shares a lot of obama's sense of how this should always be contained to being people who are threatened to the united states. not simply a kind of bomb situation actually find people who are genuinely of threat to the united states. it describes the education process obama has been through. within hours of him having signed the end when guantanamo ruling. a drone attack killed a bunch of people in pakistan who are not guilty. that became for him, a very frightening moment where he calls in the cia leadership and asked how to avoid the signature strikes, a group strike oz a posed to very, very targeted. he writes about the toll it takes on the advisers of obama. >> reading from the piece, the first one says this. president obama saw the drones as a useful tool in a global conflict. he also was mindful of the possibility of blowback. a commander who pursues the enemy without flinching. the truth is more reassuring. the president is not a killing machine. the choices he faces are difficult and he struggled with them turning them over in his mind again and again. the people around him battled and disagreed they evoked the safety of america on one hand and the righteousness of what american stood for on the other. >> john, i was reading this article this morning. i was just concerned, i don't know, maybe i shouldn't be concerned. i know the president wants to know every person he is killing and wants the baseball cards, as they call them. i'm just concerned for some reason, it doesn't seem right taking that to the ovl office and having the president of the united states specifically responsible. he says he wants to do it for moral reasons but responsible for pointing to a picture of a 17-year-old girl saying yes, kill her and let's kill him a and -- it sort of made me flinch. it reminds me of lbj picking up bombing targets during the vietnam war. >> look, there's something ghoulish and weird about it, you are choosing targets for assassination. that is true for any walk of life. >> they are not indiscriminable. they are choices made by the cias recommendation. there's something to me that is not right about taking it into the ovl office. >> a lot of people have moral and league qualms about the notion of targets assassinations. for the president to take -- rather than -- it's not about military stranlg strategy. he takes the moral weight to be so heavy, severe and serious, he wants to take it on to himself, it's admirable to me. >> there's an interesting insight in dan's piece when he says it pentagon top lawyer on the situation goes down to the pentagon's command center and has to watch the live feed of the attack on what they call kill tv. he sees the figure around the landscape, a flash of light then gone. he goes home at midnight and tells a friend, if i were catholic, i would have to go to confession. you feel that moral disturbance. >> steve, what do you think? i'm not just talking this president, any president having a list of pictures in front of him in the ovl office and pointing and deciding who he's going to have assassinated? >> i think i feel okay with it. i'm with john. he's accepting the responsibility, making the decisions of having people killed. not trying to make it a vague thing off in the distance that he's not connected to. the white house is probably pleased to project in image of him, someone engaged with a foreign policy within the parameters they are able to operate in today. i think if i were sitting in the white house, i would be happy about these two pieces. >> not just muscular, but precise. win of the concerns when we have the drone program is what the blowback in the region as we kill people from the sky. the notion that the president is concerned with precision and is not being discriminate. >> drone attacks are not precise. there's nothing precise about drones. >> i agree with that. the issue of blowback as we carry out various assassinations, blowback is a strategic concern. the president trying to be as precise and not indiscriminate as possible maybe limits the risks involved of blowback in the region. it can't hurt for people to have the notion in their heads the president is taking it seriously and trying to be as precise as possible. >> do we not want, at times for our president -- and again, not just this president, i'm talking the institution of the presidency, to have plausible deniability to be at arm's length from such bloody decisions. i'm saying for the office and the presidency and yes, this president. >> the question is whether or not it's been asked -- i mean the exposure of this, i guess, is part of what we are learning about what's going on behind closed doors in the presidency. to john's point, he's trying to be presize. a signature hit in yemen has to be precise. he's pushing back on a general saying there is no campaign in yemen. they are not opening a new front in yemen. it could happen. the constant blowback and mission that happens when you get involved in these things. >> i wonder how it's going to look ten years from now. there are a lot of decisions george w. bush and democrats made ten years ago. people like nancy pelosi grew to regret later because -- and dianne feinstein, a lot of progressives went along with things including water boarding in 2002 that they tried to backtrack on four or five years later. ten years from now, what we are going to be saying about a president lining up pictures of teenagers in the oval office. i'm not talking the morality of doing it or not doing it. i'm talking about whether it should be kept away from the president, away from the white house and stack that on top of us launching drone attacks in countries where we haven't declared war. there is going to be -- there are going to be sering critiques about what was fueled by the same type of fear that was fueled in 2002. >> i think there could be critiques of a president who was disconnected and did not think about every angle, including the moral choice. don't you think? >> no, i don't. i don't. i think there are a lot of people that are going to spin for barack obama right now. >> that's not spending. that's the other side. >> ten years from now, i think you are going to have a lot of liberal hand wringing. >> okay. >> it's what liberals do. >> it's what you do. >> let's put them in camps and worry about it later. >> there's a heart breaking thing -- >> it's what liberals do. woodrow wilson in world war i. >> those are people killed in german camps. >> if george w. bush had done this and if they brought in the baseball cards, "the new york times" and "the washington post" and everybody here would be talking about how this is the worst thing ever. >> wait a minute. george bush had the playing cards with the terrorists, the ace of spades -- >> george bush watched the iraq war and everyone cheered for two years. we'll see what happens ten years from now. i'll be reading the books. i'm not saying it shouldn't be done. i have concerns about it. >> meet you here in ten years. ten years. >> right here. >> make a date. >> we have to go to break. i want to make a note, "the new york times" leads today with this kill story. you have it in "newsweek." >> look at this. we have the cover of "newsweek" here and look at the cover of the art section. tina is doing their work for them. >> thank you tina. stay with us. andy cohen will be here to discuss a new memoir. jillian tet joins us. the nation's looming fiscal cliff. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the cookie-cutter retirement advice ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you get at some places. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 they say you have to do this, have that, invest here ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you know what? 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[ female announcer ] colgate total. less germs. healthier mouth. welcome back to "morning joe." look that the shot of new york city. at 26 past the hour, joining us now, the u.s. managing editor for the financial times, gillian te tett. good morning. >> hard times for -- hard cash for tough times is financial times article. four decades ago, consumers had to plan carefully if they wanted to get cash. it was only dispensed when banks were open. the modern invention of the atm transformed it so much that the chairman of the fed calls it the most significant financial innovation of times clinching derivatives, you go on to talk about 2.2 million atms operating around the world. fuels the assumption cash is always there. >> people take atms and cash machines for granted. cash is always there until there's a financial crisis. we learned that in 2008 when people began to think will that cash always come out of that machine. in europe, unfortunately, people are asking that question, again. i was talking to the owners of atm machines thinking if they are full with the cash is going to be challenging. >> how bad is it in europe this weekend? more problems out of spain. it looks like we are heading toward a meltdown. >> we are carrying something on the website showing david cameron is summoning people in london saying how are we going to make sure british tourists are going to get ahold of that cash in the atms. there's concerns. it's bad right now. >> steve, how bad is it? >> europe in general is bad. atms are a problem. we are hanging on to it. we don't know. one of the analogies i like to use, we don't know what the moment will be, greece falling apart, exiting the euro? the spanish crisis. the worst part of it is, nobody has a solution. there is nothing on the table that, in my opinion would resolve this in a fundamental way. >> there was talk that france and other countries were going to be able to push merkel. by the end of the week last week, it looks like her -- she is firmly standing by her original position, which is austerity. >> her position, i think, is more nuanced. yes, there is austerity, but growth, what they call growth would not work without fundamental structural reforms. allowing the spaniards are borrow more money is not good. it's her view and i agree. >> so people can understand, my mind set on education. we spend more money per student than any country in the world and people want to put more in education. i think it's a great thing. reform education first. then, yes, write as big of a check you need to write so we are number one, k-12. turn off your cell phones. secondly, they are thinking why should we german continue writing checks to the greeks who continue to refuse to reform their ways? >> here is the issue. if you want to use another war image we have been talking about, are the german's going to have their version of the merkel plan to help a group of people who look undeserving if you look at what's happening. unless you step in and help them, you are going to have a broder meltdown. as america helped germany, many americans, would have said, you know what? it's undeserving. so true, the question today is are the german's going to step up to the plate, help the greeks, help the spanish. >> in 1947, i just want to go to that. in 1947, tina, we had a big say in how japan and how germany and other countries were going set up their economies. we have dysfunctional economies in greece and spain. people are making bad choices for a generation. why should the germans reward that behavior? >> to your point, when you talked about ten years later, what are historians going to say about what you fail to do? we feel like we are watching a great slow motion car crash. there must be some actions that can be taken. apparently in the prejubilee celebrations in the uk, the interesting theme is how british everybody is. we are not european. european out. european finished. >> by the way, are they putting up -- i hope they are lining along pictures of margaret thatcher fighting the establishment in great britain because they wanted to drag them into europe. she refused and was run out of office. she was seen as a radical figure. she was right, again. >> the turks don't want to be part of the european union anymore. >> thank you sarkozy. >> we have three minutes. quick point, then go ahead. >> i agree with gillian, it would be great if the german's would help but they are not going to. secondly, you can't want an efficient economy more for people than they want it themselves. >> you are talking the greeks? >> and the spaniards. and italians. >> so americans -- we'll get to the charts later. this is an important point to make. what if california decided? we'll do it next block. what the virginia decided not to raise taxes or cut benefits, continue to let all the people that have been getting a lot more money than they deserve continue living that way, then jerry brown came to washington, d.c., sat down, held a press conference and said we want the united states to bail california out because we don't have what it takes to make tough choices in california. it's the same thing. telling the germans to fix. if the greeks and spaniards don't want to reform their economy, why should the german's help? >> ford did not want to give new york city aid. they did because they made painful sacrifices. the unions and everybody to make it work. the same thing is not happening in europe. >> in a place like ireland where my family lives -- many greeks would say they are making sacrifices. >> but they're not. they're not. >> it's the problem. >> okay. everyone stay with us. listen to steve's first chart. this is so sexy. the cost of expiring provisions. that's good. that's going to be good. >> i'm not writing for the daily news, just you guys. >> look at the fiscal challenges. rattner's charts. "morning joe" is back in moments. ♪ ♪ lord, you got no reason ♪ you got no right ♪ ♪ i find myself at the wrong place ♪ [ male announcer ] the ram 1500 express. ♪ it says a lot about you. ♪ in a deep, hemi-rumble sort of way. guts. glory. ram. what if i can't lose the weight? what if weight watchers can't help me? what if i'm not ready for change? what if i fall back into old habits? what if i lose control? what if i gain it all back? what if there's always an excuse why i can't? what if i can't follow through? what if i fail? shhh. there's only one voice worth listening to and that's the one saying you can do this. i'm standing here still in control of my weight with weight watchers, telling you to believe in that voice. join for $1. weight watchers. believe. because it works. ♪ 38 past the hour. beautiful day. steve rattner's charts on the major budget tear. the cost of expiring provisions which actually is a big piece of the puzzle. >> it's a big piece to the puzzle. it's the big cliff for taxmageddon. it's into the popular lexicon. for popular reasons that have to deal with the intricacies. we have a whole series of provisions expiring at the end of this year all of which would lower the deficit, that's a good thing, but in a dramatic way. if you take a look at the first chart, some of the provisions that are expiring. the first and biggest are the bush tax cuts from 2001 and 2003. they were extended for two years. a smaller number, but they are really only for the first nine months of 2013. they grow dramatically over time. the famous failure of the supercommittee to agree on spending cuts. 65 billion of them hit next year. then you have smaller things like the fix on medicare, obama care taxes, the unemployment insurance, the lead story in the new york times about insurance payments. that would expire at the end of this year. all this stuff expires this year. they are all thing that is would reduce the deficit. we saul may say it's a good thing but it's not. it's like driving a car at 80 miles per hour and suddenly realize you are in a 40 miles an hour zone. the effects are dramatic. in the second chart, the deficit comes down very, very dramatically to $300 billion. it's sort of a good thing. the stop line is what would happen if we did nothing. it's going to happen very, very quickly. if we look to the last chart -- >> wait, wait, wait. go back to that if you will. are you saying, if we go ahead and don't extend the obama tax cuts -- >> bush tax cuts. >> they are obama because he extended them. he owns them now. also, the se quest ration is the bottom line? >> it's current law in washington. it's what happens if we follow with no other policies. >> if we extend the obama tax cuts and don't make the others, that's the top line? >> the top line is current policies, all the tax code in effect. everything extended. the can is kicked down the road. you have to look at the economic impact of that budget cut. those are cbo numbers that came out. without doing anything, 5.3% of growth in the first half. that's optimistic. but, they are also saying if we went ahead and allowed ourself to go over the cliff, we go back into a recession. >> who thinks we are going to grow at 5.3%? >> let's focus on the delta. the second half, slower growth. we are talking plus 1% on the unemployment rate if we go over that cliff. everybody is trying to avoid it. it's caught up in election year politics. >> what happens? >> it's a political dynamic. normally in congress, if congress does nothing with gridlock, things carry on muddling through. today, we have almost for the first time a situation where if congress does nothing and gridlock continues, we go off that fiscal cliff and the numbers are very scary. bob came out this morning saying 3.5% to 4% hit to gdp going off the fiscal cliff. it's a very interesting political dynamic of whether congress is so scared they do something or whether we have the equivalent of liking bungee jumping. >> the long term. >> it's campaign chicken. >> mitt romney said he wants to put it off until after the first of the year for obvious reasons. i think it's what will happen. they will kick the can into early next year. we'll find out whether they are willing to do a simpson bowls deal. >> i think they have to. the bush-obama tax cuts expire. republicans want those to move forward. democrats don't want the short term cuts. i think we have something lining up here that would give us political space for a deal. >> let's hope so. if not, it's scary. with the euro zone doing what it's doing, you can't afford to play chicken. >> unemployment is at record highs. >> cutting of benefits. they are allowing the benefits to expire. that means people have no support as they face unemployment for multiple years. >> looking over a year and a half for a job. the new cover of "newsweek." >> thank you, steve. >> coming up next, the flow of finance. what a trip arnds the world taught michael casey about our middle class. here it here on "morning joe." 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[ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. welcome back to "morning joe." another beautiful shot of new york city at 47 past the hour. joining us now, the managing editor for the americas at djfx trader, foreign exchange news service from dow jones, michael casey. hees the author of "the unfair trade." how our global financial system destroys the middle class. great to have you on the show. how does it work? >> it's actually to bring up the points of being raised in a recession here. we look at problems in europe and the u.s. we focus on these things from a domestic point of view. we are worried about german voters not wanting to give money to the greeks. we live in a globalized world. capital moves around back and forth in milliseconds in which too big to fail banks are operating as global entities. politics are focused in the wrong direction. without dealing with the integration needed around the world, people are getting caught up in this without realizing it. political debates are focussed. >> specifically, how does it -- you have a picture on the cover of your book of -- of a middle class home with weeds growing up around it. how does what you are talking about specifically impact somebody that used to live in this house? >> the global savings. china saves an enormous amount of money and generates $3 trillion in reserves. that money is the flip side of the debt that exists in the united states. it drives down the price of capital and credit. it helps to build the bubble before the crisis. one aspect is that. we built up a reliance on debt. we built up a reliance on finance connected to the global savings. on the flip side of that, we have misaligned exchange rates around the world. china has this, you know, overly low and unofficially weak exchange rate. that has advanced the capacity to export. the two come together to make it difficult for the middle class and people around the world to compete with. >> gillian, do you see a connection where people in see connecticut of the struggles with the people in ireland or northern england with, let's say, americans in youngstown? >> here's the connection. basically the west has become like a heroin addict that's been completely addicted to cheap credit and that was in the form of credit cards, mortgages and auto loans and stuff. and what's happened in the last few years since 2007 and 2008 is that to a certain extent, they have cut the addiction to cheap credit, but they have cheap -- cheap credit cards but they replaced it with morphine, which is government spending. so you've gone from one addiction to another addiction. one thing we know, simply replacing a heroin addiction with morphine doesn't make the patient any healthier. >> government spending and cheap, cheap money. >> and that's a fair equation to make. having said that, you talk about regulatory consistency around the world. what would you propose, if we can't even agree on regulations in this country? >> look, it's a difficult ask. we know how resistant citizens are to giving up perceived loss of sovereignty. but in course we've lost a lot by handing power to institutions like banks that operate on this global scale. so i would say that we really need to get together and make sure that things like the capital requirements for banks are imposed on a consistent basis, that we have sort of international enforcement mechanisms not unlike what exists at the world trade organization, to make sure that the rules that we apply at one place are exactly the same everywhere else. so you don't have the option, if you're a financier, to take your money somewhere elsewhere the regulatory hand is softer. this is a huge problem. >> he's absolutely right. basically there needs to be some kind of international system for running these important trade issues and finance issues but we have national governments. in some ways it's working remembering what happened after world war ii when the western countries came together and created a system. that would be inconceivable just 10, 20 years earlier but with the shock of war the countries came together and did almost the unimaginable. that's kind of what needs to happen again. you need to give teeth to these international bodies to create a level playing field. >> you talk about how banks or how americans and the west is addicted to credit, credit cards, cheap loans. doesn't it make sense then for institutions, financial institutions to pull back and tighten credit as a necessary correction? which, of course, explains why we're in the trouble we're in right now. >> it's a fundamental rub. yes, it makes sense to cut the amount of borrowing and the economy and for banks to tighten the screws. the problem is that the economic impact in a country like america where a very large part of growth comes from consumer spending is going to be big. if you try to deleverage or delever as the economists say, then you're going to have a big hit to growth unless you can boost that with lots of exports and that's been the challenge until now. >> we're struggling with that across the globe. >> there's never the right time to go about a correction like this, it's always difficult. unfortunately when we get into a crisis where we're reminded of all the problems we face is the time we want to do it but it's the worst time. we still have to do it, otherwise we'll have another blowup. we're on the precipice of one in europe right now. >> the book is "the unfair trade." thank you, michael. still ahead, an author on what it takes to change the power of habit. is that possible? 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[ male announcer ] should've used roundup. america's number one weed killer. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. guaranteed. weeds won't play dead, they'll stay dead. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set we have john heilman and steve ratner. >> the news of this absolutely horrific slaughter coming out of syria. as you know, i have said on this show repeatedly we have to be much more cautious and much more restraint with troop force than we have not only in the bush administration but the obama administration, but at some point we cannot allow to continue in syria what is going on in syria. and at some point, and it sounds like the chairman of the joint chiefs, is preparing america for a military action against assad, who just slaughtered over 100 syrians, killed over 50 children indiscriminately. 10,000 syrians have been slaughtered over the past year and a half. and at some point unless america wants to look like hypocrites, we're going to have to -- we're going to have to do something. we can't just sit back. we moved very quickly in libya, but there's oil in libya. we're not moving in syria and at some point we're going to have to answer why. >> i saw your blog on that over the weekend. but let's start right there. kofi annan is meeting with syrian president assad trying to bring peace after a weekend of bloody violence that joe mentioned. more than 150 civilians are dead across the country. as many as 40 people were killed in hama on sunday. that came just days after 100 people, mostly women and children, were killed in the town of hula, most likely by syrian government forces. senator john mccain has come out blaming the obama administration for the tragedy in syria saying, quote, nearly 10,000 people have died. this is a brutal regime of incredible proportions. this administration has a feckless foreign policy that abandons american leadership. it cries out for american leadership. american leadership is not there. pretty strong statement. not sure that's completely fair. probably very easy for him to say. presidential candidate mitt romney said on sunday, quote, after nearly a year and a half of slaughter, it is far past time for the united states to begin to lead and put an end to the assad regime. the united states should work with partners to organize and arm syrian opposition groups so they can defend themselves. the blood shed makes clear that our goal must be a new syrian government, one that contributes to peace and stability in the middle east and that truly represents the brave syrian people. we can stop there for a moment. you know what -- >> also, though, the chairman of the joint chiefs was on cnn yesterday as well. and i think this is a president, not because of what john mccain is saying or what mitt romney is saying but because he knows, i believe, that it is time to let assad know that time for talking is over and military action may be around the corner. this is what the chairman of the joint chiefs said on sunday. >> my job is to provide the commander in chief with options, and i think the military option should be considered. and i think -- but my preference, of course, always as a -- as the senior military leader would be that the international community can find ways of increasing the pressure on assad to do the right thing and step aside. >> and you have the chairman of the joint chiefs sega sod must step aside, the president of the united states has said assad must go. the chairman of the joint chiefs was on cbs this morning yesterday and we'll get that sound in a little bit. but on "cbs this morning" he said that what happened was absolutely deplorable and sickening, and it seems to me that the rhetoric is ratcheting up. and i don't think kofi annan's peace plan, which has allowed assad to continue killing innocent syrians, is going to be sufficient. >> i'm not sure what kind of peace plan or pressure you could put on after something like this. >> so let me ask you that -- i want to ask you this question. should assad be allowed to talk to kofi annan as part of a u.n. peacekeeping mission two days after he murders 50 children? two days -- i mean why are we playing this game with him? he murdered 50 children and over 100 syrians while this peace plan was already under way. >> but look, joe, i think first we want assad out of there. that is priority number one. there are these efforts under way to try to have a yemeni solution where he leaves with some sort of dignity and doesn't end up in a cage in a courtroom and all of that. but you have been adamantly opposed to american involvement in many of these places, to boots on the ground. syria has a much more formidable army than libya, i think 300,000 people. they are effectively a satellite state of russia so we are bringing ourselves into that with russia so what would you do if you were the commander in chief or you were the head of the joint chiefs of staff? how would you address this? >> well, you would work aggressively. obviously you'd work aggressively with your allies and the arab league. you'd look for every option for arming the opposition and you could, leading from behind, if you could get the europeans and others on board, you could actually have air strikes that would protect civilians. that's what we did. and john you're saying no? >> well, i think the view of -- and this is why i think the chairman of the joint chiefs is saying what he's saying. they have come to the conclusion militarily that air strikes is not enough and that you can't do this in the way you did libya. there's another problem in addition to the one steve talked about which is there's not a formidable resistance that you can arm. it's not like in libya where there was a very well-formed opposition that had a territory that it was protecting. the syrian opposition is all over the place, it doesn't have a stronghold. the notion of a no-fly zone they don't think really works. so literally the choices if you want to arm the opposition or create humanitarian corridors, you're talking about putting troops on the ground. it's a boots on the ground or not situation. and that's where the rubber meets the road. i think it's a very powerful -- the humanitarian case is compelling. assad is a horrible dictator. but if you're -- this is in for a dime, in for a dollar thing. you can't do this in a cheap way that doesn't involve people -- boots on the ground. that's at least the u.s. assessment of the situation. >> and, steve, also this adds -- one of the reasons why i have been saying over the past three years that the united states shouldn't triple down in afghanistan was because strategically the payback didn't make sense. i knew three years ago you could triple the number of troops in afghanistan and you still wouldn't strategically be able to make a big impact, not only in afghanistan but globally, because al qaeda has been shattered in afghanistan. it has spread to yemen and other parts, and the investment didn't make sense strategically. and john just talked about there is a great humanitarian reason to go in. i think -- and i'm not saying you're a progressive, but we usually have over the past 20 years, we have two different reasons we go into war. for humanitarian reasons, and you can look at somalia, you can look at bosnia, kosovo, and then for strategic reasons. and there, even though failed, iraq, afghanistan for the first five or six years. this is one of those rare cases where the two come together. see, i didn't -- i didn't think bosnia and kosovo made sense because nobody in the white house could come to the armed services committee and explain what was the compelling u.s. interest that was worth the death of 18-year-old boys and girls. here -- but they did it for humanitarian reasons and, yes, they had a great impact. but here you have them both coming together. you have the strategic. i mean one of our two greatest enemies in the middle east if not on the planet, and a humanitarian calling for the united states to be the beacon of freedom. >> i'm not questioning either of those objectives. i think they're both worthy objectives and worthy of the united states as the leader in the world these days and the only country in the world willing or able to project power in a democratic way. but i'm also responding to a lot of what you've said over the years and months about the costs of american involvement, the human costs, the financial costs, every other kind of cost. here you're talking -- i think john's analysis is exactly right. here you're talking about a major, major, major -- >> well, i'm not -- john has said that it has to be all in or not in at all, according to some people at the pentagon. that's not my understanding, but we can talk about that later. we're stretched militarily. there's no doubt we're stretched militarily. i've been saying that even with regards to iran, a country who's i think the greatest threat on the globe. we can't afford to start our third full-scale war over the past decade, especially against a muslim country. but here i understand it's a bad option, but here we can't sit back and watch assad slaughter 10,000 more people. and to throw it back at you, how is it that under bill clinton when this many people weren't slaughtered in bosnia and kosovo you had everybody rising saying we must go into bosnia and kosovo and i heard deaf kramocr saying the same thing with gadhafi. if that's the justification, how is that not the justification here when more people are being slaughtered, more people are being gunned down, more people are being killed. it continues this weekend and has been going on for a year and a half now. >> joe, you have to balance these things, right? >> you have to. >> there's humanitarian -- >> by the way, let me just say really quickly, i don't want anybody at home, i am not criticizing president obama. >> i understand. >> but i just want everybody at home to understand that is so important. the president is juggling so many things. this is one of those mornings that most americans wouldn't want to be within a,0 thousand miles of his job. i am not criticizing the president and you're exactly right, it's all about balance, it's a tough balance. we have no idea what he's balancing right now. >> when you think about libya versus syria, again libya -- if you say one is a worse humanitarian disaster, which syria is, libya was an achievable goal militarily. they felt there was a way to get that done. syria, you have all the problems steve and i were talking about, plus the possibility of militaryizing a conflict where a lot of sectarian forces would get involved. they are very wary of further militarizing a region that has a lot of sectarian elements and turning syria into a cancerous situation that could spread outside its borders very quickly. there's just a lot of weight on that. libya was a much more isolated, manageable situation. >> you know, john has pointed out correctly the differences between this and libya and the limitations on our ability to act at the edges, at the periphery. this is not bosnia. this is not places where we can send in some bombers and clean this thing up. we're faced with a bunch of really, really hard choices. what i was probing back at you, joe, is what would you do since you are very much in the center on these kinds of issues, you're not an ardant militarist, so what would you do? >> get back to me tomorrow. i'm serious, i'll call around and see. i think, though -- let me throw it back at you just to say to everybody at this table, is it an option for the united states to allow, to permit, to stand back and basically play the role of pontius pilate while assad continues slaughtering children and 100 civilians with indiscriminate bombing and shelling. this is not a rhetorical device. i think if you start at that position. does anybody here believe we can allow the status quo to remain? >> i do not believe we should. i supported the things we did in bosnia and kosovo and places like that, even in iraq. but my problem here is i find it almost unimaginable that we're going to send boots on the ground into syria. >> no, there's no way we can. >> so the question is, is there something in between that works? >> well, i don't know. perhaps. there's a kill list? >> just to make it all the more complicated very quickly, as you said, you can't do this alone. and russia is not ever going to sign off on this and china is with russia on this. so when we try to get -- there was a full international consensus behind libya. there is nothing like that here. the two most strategic foes and friends that we have in the foe, china and russia, do not want anything like that intervention so it's really hard. >> which, by the way, is the reason, willie, why bosnia and kosovo were nato operations instead of u.n. operations because russia obviously, they were allies with the serbians. >> and russia and china both on the security council are the reason we have what we have right now, which is this watered down cease-fire which no one observes, certainly not the government. by the way, it's not just shelling of villages, the accounts coming out today. it's the door-to-door massacre of women and children shot at point blank range. you don't have to go too far on youtube to see images you never want to see in your life. so the question is, you know, bill clinton always talked about rwanda was the greatest regret of his presidency. i'm not comparing yet to what happened there certainly but how long can the world, how long can president obama, how long can the u.n. watch these images flood in every day. >> i don't think they can, and that's why i'm surprised annan is there. i'm not saying you shut down all peace talks, but i'm saying 48 hours after these indiscriminate actions were taken, you don't send a guy that put together a peace plan, a cease-fire, in two days after the slaughter. you let assad freeze. we have just given him -- we have just given him a fig leaf of respectability this morning. >> just remember, though, there are u.n. observers on the ground there, and the concern for their safety at the u.n. is really high. and so i get where you're coming from. but part of kofi annan's mission is to make sure that the actual human beings that the u.n. has on the ground there are not molested and harmed in any way. so he's got another objective that he's pursuing too. coming up next, watch what happens live. don't we do that every morning? bravo's andy cohen joins us on set for his new book "most talkative." >> that book is doing great, by the way. >> it's adorable. also ahead, the power of habit. we'll talk to charles duhigg of "the new york times" on his best-selling book on whether we have the power to change human nature. plus headlines from the west coast papers. but first, todd santos with a check on the forecast. todd. >> thanks so much. some showers and thunderstorms are pushing from indiana into central portions of ohio, cincinnati as well getting in on some of those showers. to the northeast it's primarily northern new england right now, better chances from boston back down through new york and central pennsylvania. boston still coming in at 0.2 mile visibility. still no major issues at the airport but could see potential delays there. providence has some improvement. there's a look at the forecast. late this afternoon is where we start to see those showers firing up initially through central p.a., eastern new york and eventually southeastern new england. did want to mention tropical depression beryl, moving off towards the north around 2 miles per hour. it will start that bend off towards the north and east. the heavy rain remains a big issue through northern florida. some areas have upwards of 14 inches of rainfall already and we'll deal with this in the southeast through tomorrow and even wednesday. even a chance that could again become a tropical storm off the outer panics eer banks by the e week. beyond that, heat continues. chicago not so much the records today but still on the warm side of things. today lower 80s. many other areas at least on the east coast will be dealing with showers and thunderstorms. here's a look at top of the rock in new york. we'll be back with more "morning joe." so you brushed with colgate total and you didn't. let's compare. germ party! eww! now the colgate total mouth. nice! 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(growl) we invite you to get a free sample and try one on too. dan rather, would you rather get caught on camera having a bill o'reilly style freakout or an anderson cooper style gigglefest? >> i'm going to say freakout only because for as little as i know you, i think a freakout displays just sort of moral compass. you've been wronged and there's a right way and there's a wrong way to do it and the wrong way has just happened. you didn't just hear the word pussy willow and start laughing. >> dan rather? >> anderson cooper's way. >> oh. >> that's pretty good. that's from the after show of "watch what happens live." here with us now, executive vice president of original programming and development at bravo and host of "watch what happens live," andy cohen, who is the author of "most talkative, stories from the front lines of pop culture." it's great to have you back. >> hi, mika. >> this book looks like fun. >> i think it is fun, yes. >> will i be pop cultured if i read it? >> yes. >> willie thinks that i'm not pop cultured. >> well, you know, it's a great mix. it's about how all the intersections of pop culture in my life have formed where i am now. i worked at cbs news for ten years. >> yes, you did. >> exactly, as did you for a while. we didn't ever see each other in the hallways. >> crossed paths maybe once. >> crossed paths a little bit. but i have a lot of funny stories from my foibles and times at cbs news in the book that i think you will enjoy. >> i will. >> that clip, by the way, perfectly captured the essence of andy. he brings people together you wouldn't otherwise see together. >> counter intuitive matchups. >> and dan rather was mixing it up. >> dan rather was fantastic. he was as sharp as i've seen him. >> makers? was he drinking the bourbon? >> we'll a jimmy fallon shot at the end of the show and he had a bourbon, yeah. yeah, it was good. >> i think a lot of people who know andy cohen of today or the last couple of years don't know about the ten years at cbs. >> yes. >> we had a funny shared incident where i was about to go on his show. it was a sunday night. we got word of a press conference. i was about to go in and talk with jesus barbie about that night's episode and the news came across that osama bin laden had been killed. so i'm sitting in with laura and our pr person. i said i can't be out there with this, we've got to break it with andy. andy comes storming in, you can't do this show. so that was andy who had worked at cbs for ten years. >> interesting. >> talk about the transition for people who know the current andy from news to the sglurcurrent. >> i started in '90 and ended in 2000. it became so much more driven by entertainment stories in the time that i was there. on the one hand i liked it because i like entertainment. but on the other hand, we were competing against so many -- i worked at the morning show at cbs. we were competing against all these other outlets that we had never been competing for, for stories. i just ultimately wound up burning out. when i look at what i'm doing now at bravo, there's so much that i'm doing that was informed by my time at cbs, from interviewing people, which i did behind the scenes for ten years, to the time i spent in edit rooms at "48 hours" crashing stories. >> you bring up "48 hours." i look at the synopsis of your time at cbs and you talk about shirtless tuesdays. but then i think was susan zarenski the e.p.? >> z. was the e.p. but i like to take my shirt off when i'm feeling the emotion. >> i'm going to ask you to choose. i'm sure it will be a painful choice. among your children, what's the funniest story in the book? >> oh, wow. wow, that's very difficult. >> that's hard. >> we're at a dinner party. there's one story that -- >> actually it's not a story per se but there is a chapter in there about my internship at cbs news. and it was -- i was an intern there in '89. that chapter -- that time in my life was such a coming of age time. i had just actually come out of the closet, which was a very difficult part of my life, which is in the book as well. but it was a time -- the song of the summer was "express yourself" by madonna and i was running around cbs news, my mouth open wide, expressing myself at every corner and being slapped down at every turn i made. but i got kicked off the set of the "cbs evening news" -- >> because you were shirtless. >> well, i had -- if i had been shirtless, i think they would have kept me in there. but there were so many incidences that i had during that internship that were formative for me, that taught me how to act today, as though i figured that out. but i think that chapter -- and i wrote journals from '86 until about '90. and so i was able to read those journals and find some details in there i never would have been able to remember. >> i'm glad you brought up coming out, because the book is hilarious all the way through, but it's also very moving. my wife actually snagged my copy first and she's sitting reading it and she's crying. i'm like why are you crying at andy's book? and she tarts to tell me about your friend dave, your college roommate who she fell in love with, about talking to your parents about it. the reception you got from the most important people in your life was huge. >> that's right, it was. it was such a scary time and such a different time. you know, coming out in the '80s, there were no gay people on tv. it was paul lind and charles nelson riley were the two gay people on tv. but no one that i was mapping my life off of. and so the idea that i could come out and be accepted by my family and my friends and work in a -- somewhere where i could fully be myself was totally foreign to me. so coming out at any age is difficult, but i -- you know, in that time it was just -- it was a very scary moment for me. but i was received well. and the stories in there. my mom, when i came out to her, said you know what, i probably would have hated your wife anyway. >> that's great. she sounds great. that's really good. you also write about the day you realized you were kind of famous. >> oh, well that day happened when i was sitting in this chair on your show, on this broadcast. i mouthed off, i was talking about the oscars and i mouthed off about that ps-22 i think was the school, staten island. the school kids who closed the oscars. i ultimately have always loved making people laugh. if i make people laugh, i will continue on the track that i'm on because i'm making people laugh. well, you guys were yukking it up and i was trashing these kids which i knew nothing b i didn't know their back story or who they were. >> thus we hand you the rope. >> and i hung myself. later in the day there was a reporter from the "new york post" at the school and the "times" saying what did you think of this mean man, what he said about you on tv. i was saying what the hell does anyone care what i have to say. i guess that was the day that i realized that i couldn't just randomly -- i still get caught. >> couldn't just randomly trash schoolchildren. >> exactly. >> it took you that long to figure that out? >> by the way, word to the wise about twitter. i am -- i feel that i'm always one tweet away from getting fired and ruining my career and my life. so think before you tweet. >> i know the feeling. >> yes. >> don't tweet drunk is another one too, don't you think? >> yeah, i ride the line occasionally after my show. >> the thing about andy is he's a magnet for people. >> no, he is. >> all different kinds of people. >> thanks, willie. >> well, it's true. you bliring in well known peopl less known. people like being around you. this is a horrible question to answer about yourself, but how do you collect the circle of friends that you run in? >> well, i have a lot of interests, a, so i'm interested in a lot of different kind of people, from jesus barbie to dan rather. and i've been in this business for a long time. especially the stories from the book about working in morning television and the people that you come across. one day you're in joey buttafuoco's living room and the next day you're covering hurricane andrew with dan rather. and so the life that i've lived so far has allowed me to come in contact with a lot of different people. there is a funny story in the book about interviewing tammy faye baker in palm springs when i was at the morning show. i was in my early 20s and i checked myself into a clothing optional resort at the time because it was -- i just thought -- >> i'm sorry? >> it wasn't in the unapproved hotels list at cbs news. it also wasn't on the approved. so i thought i was saving them money. it was a shocking juxtaposition between the time that i was spending at miss baker's home and the time that i was spending in the lodging that i was at. >> how was the lodging? >> a lot of naked people. >> you know, it was gross. i thought it would be amazing. >> is that where shirtless tuesdays came from? >> maybe. >> it's like shirtless tuesdays and pantsless wednesdays. >> it's like the nude beach, it's never the people you want to be at the nude beach. in my experience, anyway. >> oh, really? >> but i saved cbs news money. under budget again! >> that's very important to them. >> yes, it is. >> what's the next big thing on bravo? >> well, around the world in 80 plates, which is great and is happening right now on wednesday nights. i call it amazing race meets top chef meets a little survivor at the end of the show. it's the biggest show we've done. it's fantastic. we have the new season of "new york housewives" starting next monday, june 4th, so i'm very excited about that. i see you taking a deep breath because you're excited too, mika. >> i am. i am. i understand what you're talking about but if you read the book, you'll see photos like this. >> oh! >> you know what, i like an embarrassing photo. >> wow. >> and i like embarrassing stories. >> is that the lead singer in reo speedwag on. >> that's right. >> did you often go shirtless with vest? >> no, that was actually a joke picture that was taken. you can take it down now. that was a joke picture that was taken at that time. when i saw it i was like oh, my god, i have to put this in the book because it's hilarious and now it's -- you know, the joke's on me. >> oh, my gosh. >> your kenny g. period we call that. >> that was a moment, yes. >> oh, my gosh, these pictures are great! >> they have already laughed. >> oh, my lord, look at this one. the book is "most talkative." we have an audio excerpt on our blog. it's our first one. >> there's a picture you can't show on tv? >> sort of. you can't see the caption. andy cohen, thank you so much. it's great to see you. more "morning joe" in just a moment. 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[ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. 37 past the hour. a quick look now at the west coast papers. we'll start with the l.a. times. nato says al qaeda's number two has been killed in an air strike. the target was a saudi militant who helped transport things into afghanistan. millions of cuts to some of the country's most famous national parks. yosemite will stay open but visitors will experience everything from more trash to longer lines. and the las vegas sun, the world series of poker is under way. the winner gets not only the biggest purse in the contest's history but also the most expensive bracelet in the history of sports. it features 35 carats of diamonds and 170 grams of 14 karat gold. what the heck? >> are there a lot of bracelets in sports? >> poker champions? >> i'm confused. >> it's a little unclear that poker qualifies as a sport. >> does chris money maker want that bracelet? >> well, you can melt that down. >> super bowl bracelets? >> more with andy cohen next on "morning joe." not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. you get a 50% annual bonus. and everyone likes 50% more cash -- well, except her. no! but, i'm about to change that. ♪ every little baby wants 50% more cash... ♪ phhht! fine, you try. 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[ male announcer ] the capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. ♪ what's in your wallet? ♪ what's in your...your... mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection, and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. the call said my wife is dead, my daughter was dead and wasn't sure how my sons were going to make it. i remember looking up and said god, as if i was talking to god myself, you can't be good. how can you be good? after a while, you'll see somebody you may have an interest in and you're going to feel guilty as hell. you're going to feel this awful, awful, awful feeling of guilt. but just remember two things. keep thinking what your husband or wife would want you to do. there will come a day, i promise you, and you parents as well, when the thought of your son or daughter, your husband or wife, brings a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eye. >> wow. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that was vice president biden at an event on friday for the family of service members killed in war speaking on the loss of his own wife and daughter during a car accident in 1972. for americans that don't know the story, joe biden had just been elected as a 29-year-old kid to the united states senate in delaware. and his -- his wife and daughter -- >> baby daughter. >> baby daughter died in a car accident. joe biden gave, and i started getting e-mails, one from richard hoss saying i don't know if you -- this was on friday, by the way, before a long memorial day weekend. that's why nobody saw this. richard hoss said and many others said it was the most moving, heart-felt political speech they can ever remember seeing. and anybody that has read this. i remember the first time, not knowing about it, reading about this in "what it takes." actually starting to tear up reading that story and also the story of when he went in for an operation on his aneurysm, thinking he was going to die and he called his boys to his side and said i want you to know basically i'm probably not going to make it, but i want you to know right now i'm proud of you. this was just -- it was remarkable moment. this is why joe biden is joe biden. >> exactly. and we talk about loving him, and this is why, seriously, why we really, really respect his contribution to this country because nobody could deliver the message that he delivered on friday. nobody but him. but he actually puts himself out there and does it in the most deeply personal, visceral way that connects. i mean nobody could do that. >> willie, there's so many politicians who are guarded that would never go there. there are so many politicians that will tell family members i understand. no, you don't understand what it's like to bury a child, so don't tell us you understand. and here's joe biden doing it not for political reasons but for very personal reasons, to explain to these people i understand your pain, and today as we start the memorial day weekend, let me talk to you about how you heal again. >> and yet it didn't feel exploitative in anyway. i know he wrote about it in his book but i haven't heard him talk about it or speak about it publicly like he did in that sound bite. >> say whatever you want to say about joe biden. there is no one in american politics in either party with more heart than joe biden. >> nobody. he is. this is a guy that sometimes he speaks from the heart and he gets in trouble for it. but moments like these explain why we do. we do love -- by the way, i don't know if you know this. we've got a rule you are not allowed to criticize joe around this table. it's been the rule for five years and it remains the rule. he's human. >> he certainly won my heart when he spoke up about gay marriage before the president and that famous sunday. so do you think, by the way, that was testing the waters? or was that just him speaking from the heart saying -- >> the latter. >> -- this is how i feel. >> the latter. >> certainly not testing the waters. caused great consternation. >> we had had reports that they had iced his people out, in fact. stopped inviting him to meetings. we got several calls, oh, that's not the case. >> nothing to see. >> sometimes we just get together and hug each other. it's like a seen out of "veep." have you not seen it yet? >> i have not seen it yet. >> i saw the first one. >> don't ever be behind on girls. >> so on "veep" -- >> what does that even mean. >> he said he was three episodes behind on girls. i said don't be behind on girls. it's a great show. >> how did we get here? >> so get past the first veep because they just keep getting better and better. as far as girls go, isn't it funny that the greatest scenes on girls seems to be when the band starts playing? i mean one of my favorite ones, this is the bridge and they just start reading the diary. >> i love that show. >> are you a girls watcher, joe? >> i've discussed it half the time and the other half the time i sayly thea donham is on to something here. >> she's 25. >> i will say this about her. she, more than any other writer in mainstream -- you know, in the mainstream media sort of goo, she is really, i think, capturing from time to time a glimpse of what it's like being 20 to 24, 25. i mean there are moments where you're like, okay, this is -- >> you don't want to saddle her with that voice of generation baggage but she kid of is the voice of that generation, that gender at least. >> there are a lot of things i don't like about the show. i think -- i wish she'd focus more on certain things and leave other things out. >> you don't like the sex. >> no, it's not that i don't like the sex. i don't like the ugliness, the intentional ugliness. and i say intentional. intentional ugliness of the sex. of the guys. it's -- you know, we don't want to get -- i don't want to get too deep into it on a morning show. >> okay. >> mika, how many have you watched? >> haven't yet, but i'm going to try. i'm going to start with "veep." >> do you think those girls know their worth? >> no, they don't. >> that may be the issue. >> that is the issue. >> i'm not kidding. >> i'm dead serious. we need to have a longer talk about this, but not today. >> andy cohen, thank you so much. >> andy, "most talkative," this is big. i'm reading this this weekend. so uh this is my friend frank and his, uh, retirement plan. one golden crown. come on frank how long have we known each other? go to e-trade. they got killer tools man. they'll help you nail a retirement plan that's fierce. two golden crowns. you realize the odds of winning are the same as being mauled by a polar bear and a regular bear in the same day? frank! oh wow, you didn't win? i wanna show you something... it's my shocked face. 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[ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ helping you do what you do... even better. 52 past the hour. with us now chief white house correspondent for politico, m e mike allen. we haven't gotten to the texas primary yet. >> nobody knows how it's going to end. >> by the way, mike, can you guys at politico, i've never made a suggestion. >> really? >> not to tell politico what to do. >> oh, right, okay. >> bring it on. >> can you guys link the joe biden speech from friday? it got completely crushed as everybody was going out of town. and that shows how it was nautical clatno not calculated. you would not give a speech like that the friday before memorial day weekend. i think this is one of the most moving speeches i've seen in a very long time from a politician. >> no, it's a great idea. we'll do it as while you were out. i agree with you totally. and it took his own people by surprise. but showed why president obama picked him. that vice president biden connects with regular americans in a way that a barack obama or a mitt romney never will. >> absolutely. >> and willie, of course, tonight you've had it circled on your calendar for six months, the texas republican primary. >> absolutely. by the way, where mitt romney will cease to be the presumptive republican nominee and actually become the republican nominee. also some stuff down the ballot, mike. >> yeah, that's going to be the juicy story tonight as we have another tea party upset brewing. we had big tea party wins in senate primaries in indiana and nebraska. a little trouble for orrin hatch in utah. now we can have another one in texas. this is the kay bailey hutchison seat. the lieutenant governor, david dewhurst, was supposed to be the big favorite but a tea party candidate, ted cruz, may upset him. just in the last couple days dewhurst has put in $6 million more of his own money. he had put in $2 million before. so that will be big. and there could be another tea party upset. joe, someone you know well, congressman ralph hall, the oldest member of the house, 89. he's been there since '81. he could lose his primary to a tea party upstart. >> big night in texas. >> yes, it is. >> politico's mike allen. mike, thanks. we'll talk to you. >> one more headline, senator marco rubio announced he's just taken off for guantanamo bay cuba going there with the senate intel committee. >> oh, my gosh. that's huge. >> cover that tomorrow. coming up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. 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[ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. pull on those gardening gloves. and let's see how colorful an afternoon can be. with the home depot certified advice to help us expand our palette... ...and prices that keep our budgets firmly rooted... ...we can mix the right soil with the right ideas. ...and bring even more color to any garden. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now, ortho home defense max is just $4.88. for a hot dog cart. my mother said, "well, maybe we ought to buy this hot dog cart and set it up someplace." so my parents went to bank of america. they met with the branch manager and they said, "look, we've got this little hot dog cart, and it's on a really good corner. let's see if we can buy the property." and the branch manager said, "all right, i will take a chance with the two of you." and we've been loyal to bank of america for the last 71 years. last season was the gulf's best tourism season in years. in florida we had more suntans... in alabama we had more beautiful blooms... in mississippi we had more good times... in louisiana we had more fun on the water. last season we broke all kinds of records on the gulf. this year we are out to do even better... and now is a great time to start. our beatches are even more relaxing... the fishing's great. so pick your favorite spot on the gulf... and come on down. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. welcome back to "morning joe." it's time to talk about what we learned today. william, what have you learned? >> i learned john f. kennedy would have been 95 years old today had he lived that long. 95 years old today. >> wow, what did you learn? >> i learned that andy cohen did not consider charles nelson riley an appropriate career or life model when he was growing up? >> why not? >> i don't know. it was left unresolved. >> i targeted my -- focused my life after churchill and? >> charles nelson riley. >> good calm poe. >> with just a dash of paul lind thrown in. >> he is great. a little don henley? >> no, i

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